← The Bert Show
Loading summary
Transcript73 lines
- [00:00]
A
You're on the Burt Show. Michelle Wiener Davis can help you out. She wrote a book called Sex Starved Marriages. And I think this has been defined by marriages in which people have sex less than 12 times a year. I think it was once every six weeks is what we said. Yep.
- [00:16]
B
But wasn't it one in five marriages fall under that category or something like that? Like, if you are embarrassed by it, you should, I mean, go ahead and call. Like Bert said, we have the voice disguiser. But you're not alone because a lot of marriages are in the same category.
- [00:28]
A
That seems like a crazy number to me. That really does. But if you guys talk about it.
- [00:32]
B
Mostly being couples with small children too, we'll have to ask your several small kids in the house. I'm sure that makes it harder.
- [00:40]
C
Good morning.
- [00:41]
A
How are you?
- [00:42]
C
I'm great, thanks. How are you? Thanks for having me back.
- [00:45]
A
Yeah, thank you for. I mean, the last time we talked to you, the phone lines lit up and we didn't get to all the questions that we needed to get to. So we're gonna try to start lining them up right now also. But Jen raises an interesting point. Is a sex starved marriage more for people that have kids or does it not matter?
- [01:03]
C
It's a great question. It does not matter. In fact, one of the things that's been most surprising to me in terms of my work with couples and the research that we did with Red Book magazine is that there are a lot of people who are in their early, like they're in their early 20s. And there are people in their 30s without children. And people of course, whose children have left home and they're empty nesters and they're having difficulty. You'd think that that would be a chance for a second honeymoon. But, you know, the truth is that low sexual desire in either spouse can hit a marriage at any point in their life. Transition. So it's not, of course, you know, having had two children of my own, I can say firsthand it makes it difficult, especially when there's an infant or toddlers around. I mean, when there are infants around, of course, women are going through major hormonal changes, which makes sex not all that attractive. And when they're little, they're so demanding. So I don't want to underplay or minimize the impact that children have on adults lives. And when they're knocking on the door, just opening the door, and you have no privacy, I don't want to minimize that. But, you know, the truth is, in the words of a famous philosopher, Rosanna Dana, there's always something. And you know, in order for marriage to keep passion alive, couples, regardless of whether they have children or not, have to take sex off the back burner and really make it a priority. And if they have to, to schedule time where they know they're going to be alone.
- [02:43]
A
Let's talk about that for a second before I get to Sarah's call here is that I think a lot of people say if you schedule sex, it really kind of takes like, I don't know. Well, obviously it takes a spontaneity out of it, but it also takes the specialness out of it. How do you respond to that?
- [02:57]
C
Well, first of all, it's great. You know, a lot of couples tell me sex was great when they were spontaneous. And that always means before children or at least almost always. But what I say, you know, if you have children and you have to plan it, I call it planned spontaneity. You know, you know, it's a time when you're going to be alone and you're going to have privacy. And what you do within that time frame is totally up to you. You can be creative, you can try new things. And you know, yes, it would be ideal if you could just have sex at the drop of the hat in the living room if you'd like. But you know, life isn't like that. If you're going to sit around and mourn the fact that it's over, you're going to lose a lot of opportunities to really connect physically.
- [03:38]
A
Let's take your first call here. 404-741. Q100. Good morning, Sarah. You're on with Michelle Wiener Davis from Sex Star of Marriage.
- [03:47]
C
Hi, good morning.
- [03:49]
D
I'm calling the issue where I'm the one not interested, where my husband, he wants it every day and I could live without it. And I wanted to see is there a medication or something.
- [04:08]
C
I hear that. And by the way, I want you to know that this is such a popular and common issue. I recently wrote a post on a blog for three Psychology Today about sex starved marriages and it was so popular that it was picked up by the Huffington Post. And apparently it's just making the rounds because it seems that most couples have an issue with the sexual desire gap at some point in their marriage. And so first of all, I want you to know it's very common. Secondly, before you run off and start taking medication for this, you really need to ask yourself whether it was a time in your marriage where you felt more sexual, where you felt more alive physically and if so, you know, what were those times? And so, first of all, let me ask you that question. Was there a time in your marriage where you felt more sexual?
- [05:01]
D
No, not really.
- [05:03]
C
No, not really.
- [05:05]
D
We have two kids and no, I've just never been interested ever. I just. I do it because he wants me to do it, but it's still only like once every two or three months. I'm thinking, please hurry up.
- [05:21]
C
Yeah, well, that is not great. Well, I can't really speak to you, and I don't want to ask you a whole lot of personal questions over the air. But, you know, first of all, you know, sometimes women who feel the way that you do do so because their husbands don't really know their bodies. And that couples very rarely talk enough about sex and what turns them on and what feels good. And sometimes that happens because people don't know their own bodies. Women seem to be more guilty of this than men. And so the first thing I would suggest to you is that make some time to get to know your own body and what turns you on and what gives you an orgasm so that you can coach your husband as to what makes you feel good. The second thing is that sometimes people in your shoes have had difficult growing up experiences, tough times in their family. Sometimes there's been sexual abuse, and that's really turned them off to sex altogether. And if that's been true in your situation, what I really want to urge you to do is to go get some professional help and so they can begin to talk about that. But sometimes people really just are not interested in sex and they don't need to run out and do medication. They tell me that they have low sexual desire. And again, this may or may not be true for you, but I think I last time I was on the air that I wish I had a dollar for each time someone said to me, I'm not in the mood for sex when my husband approaches me. But once we get started, I really enjoy it. Feels great. And so for those women, I really suggest that they adopt the Nike philosophy and just do it. Because for a lot of people, in order to feel really turned on, they just have to be physically stimulated. They're not going to be sitting around having this really random lusty thought, like their spouses might, that they have to get going. And once they do, they really have a good time. So again, I don't know if that's you, but if you do, it just lingers before your husband decides that he's going to have an affair or wanting to dissolve your relationship because you have two kids. I can't say strongly enough that you need to get some help so that your sexual relationship becomes better. It's very important.
- [07:48]
A
All right, here is Carrie. She's on the voice disguiser. Go ahead, Kerry.
- [07:52]
C
Hi.
- [07:53]
E
Actually, my role is a reverse. I'm actually older than my husband by five years and he's just not into sex at all. And we haven't had sex in over a year and we got married in October and still haven't consummated our marriage.
- [08:11]
A
You haven't had sex since you got married?
- [08:13]
B
What? Haven't consummated your marriage?
- [08:17]
D
No.
- [08:18]
C
Whoa. Well, first of all, what I want you to do is, and the reason that I'm on this show this morning is I wrote a book called the Sex Starved Wife. And believe it or not, there are people listening to me right now thinking there is no such thing as a sex starved wife. And if there is a woman who doesn't like sex, it must mean that she's incredibly unattractive or that she's incredible. She nags all the time. And I am here to tell everybody that that is simply not. Yes, it's true that sometimes women let themselves go or that sometimes women get critical. And oftentimes women get critical because they're feeling so rejected, which I'm certain is something that you're feeling after a year and it comes out in not positive ways. But I also want to tell people that there are millions and millions of relationships out there where the husband simply doesn't want sex. Now, the fact that you haven't consummated your marriage really indicates that me that he has got some sort of issue. You don't need a degree in psychology to know that, that there's something going on with him. And I wonder, first of all, have you talked with him about your concern?
- [09:29]
E
Oh, yeah, we actually, we've talked. We've had fights. There was a book that was called Sex Starved Marriage that I bought. I mean, and he refused to read it.
- [09:38]
A
That's her, you know, that's her book. You're talking to the author of that movie or that book right now.
- [09:42]
E
Yeah, I read it. And I tried to do all the things, you know, about not pushing and everything, but he wouldn't even read the book.
- [09:49]
C
And, and what's the reason that he gives you for not wanting to have sex?
- [09:53]
A
Because he likes her brother.
- [09:56]
E
You know, I've even asked that question. I'm like, I would rather you just tell me, you know, if you're what does he say, you know, so we've actually, I mean, we've had sex, but it. It just kept dwindling and, you know, and I'm. My personality, I've always been extremely active and it's very hard for me, you know, to. I'm just not. It's not.
- [10:22]
C
So let me ask you this. You're new into your marriage. I take it you don't have children.
- [10:27]
E
No, we do.
- [10:28]
C
You do have children?
- [10:29]
E
Together four years. We have a four year old.
- [10:32]
C
So, okay, you've been together four years and married for one.
- [10:37]
E
No, we just got married in October.
- [10:39]
C
Oh, okay. Well, here's. Here's what? You know, you gotta get tough with this guy and you need to tell him that he either has to go to a doctor or to a therapist with you or you're out the door. Because I have a feeling he does not want a divorce. I mean, you sound like a pretty nice person. And my guess is he probably, for whatever reason, he's not wanting to confront this issue. He's thinking that you're going to be here no matter what. And you know, I don't know what's going on with him. He's not on the phone. For all I know he's feeling overwhelmed with the responsibility of having a 4 year old. I don't know whether. Is he working?
- [11:18]
E
No, he's a stay home dad. Luckily I do well enough that I support us.
- [11:25]
C
Well, you know, he's got a pretty easy life, it sounds like. Not to say that staying home with a four year old is easy work because it's not. But it sounds like.
- [11:35]
D
But my mom lives with us too.
- [11:36]
E
And so my mom really takes care of my son. My husband gets to do whatever he wants.
- [11:41]
C
Okay, time for you to toughen up, girl. You know, you don't. It sounds like you're treating him like a mother and mothers aren't very sexy. Treat him like he's your equal and start giving him some expectations that if he doesn't fulfill, he's out the door.
- [11:58]
A
Hey, Karen, in the interest of time, I gotta take one more call. So we gotta move on.
- [12:01]
E
Thank you.
- [12:02]
A
Okay. Wish we had more time to spend with her. Yes. I wonder if one of these days would it be too like, edgy to have an actual married couple on to talk to you about this and actually hear the whole session go on? Is that unethical?
- [12:14]
C
I'd be happy to do that if they're willing to. And I think a lot of people are eager to get help. I'd be happy to do that.
- [12:21]
B
But I think the person who's less interested is going to have a harder time.
- [12:26]
A
Right? Yeah. And I think that.
- [12:27]
C
Well, yes, except for the fact that women who are less interested are much more cooperative than men. I bet you you don't have a single low desire man hanging on the line for their voice to be disguised.
- [12:40]
A
Now. There is not one man, not one. All right, one more call here. It's all we're going to have time for. And we only have a couple of minutes. But I did want to get you in. Pam, you're on the voice disguiser.
- [12:49]
E
Hi. And I'm in my late 20s and my husband's in his mid-30s and we've been married less than a year. And we are what you call. We're in a sexless marriage. We have sex maybe once a month and it's initiated by me. And I'm to the point where I'm so tired of initiating it and being turned down that I'm just. I'm to the point where I'm ready to resolve the relationship. We have no children, we have no issues, no problems. We both make plenty of money. We have everything we want in life. You know, I don't know what the answer is. I've even sat down and asked him, what turned you on? What can I do? I'll do anything, you know, what turns you on? Nothing turns him on. Nothing. And I'm not a bad looking girl, so, you know, I'm to the point where I don't know what, what's left to do?
- [13:49]
B
Oh, you can hear the rejection she feels.
- [13:52]
C
Well, you know, I'm delighted that you're calling in, first of all, because again, another example of a woman who is the person who has higher sexual desire. And therefore I first of all go and get the book the Sex Starved Wife. And the first chapter of the book, the Sex Starved Wife or the Sex Starved Marriage, is on my website, divorcebusting.com and you can find out information there. First of all, I wonder, have you asked him to go get some help with you?
- [14:25]
E
Yeah, we were simply about four months ago where I said, you know, I'm ready to leave you. I'm ready for divorce, you know. And his response was, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. You're not the first person that's ever told me that.
- [14:40]
A
Oh, boy.
- [14:42]
E
And you know, let me ask you.
- [14:44]
C
In your heart of heart, do you think he's. He's wanting a divorce or willing to get a divorce? What was your question in your heart of hearts? Do you really believe that he wants a divorce?
- [14:56]
E
No, I don't think he wants a divorce at all. And I really don't either. But I can't continue to go on this way.
- [15:04]
C
Yeah, I don't blame you. Now, first, you know, a lot of times, and I'm not saying that you're doing this, but when women feel so rejected and so hurt, when they actually sit down and talk to their husbands about their feelings and what comes out is anger, frustration, and criticism, I'm wondering if you've ever approached him by telling him, you know, the truth is this isn't just a physical act. When we're not close physically, it makes me feel like you don't want me or you don't love me, and I feel like I'm not important to you. Have you shared with him your real sentiments?
- [15:41]
E
Absolutely. I sat down after about a bottle of wine so that I wouldn't be so angry. And I said, you know, I'm not here to hurt your feelings. I'm not here to make you angry. I just want you to see how I feel and understand, you know, and for all these people out there listening that are on the other side, you're not just losing sex with your partner, you're losing intimacy. You're losing all of those feelings that go along with just not being a ringmate.
- [16:12]
C
Absolutely. You know, so many times a person with low desire thinks, what is the big deal? It's just sex. When in fact, it's much more than that. As I said, it's really about feeling close and feeling important. And so I want to tell you two things. One is that ultimately you need to give him an ultimatum and get an appointment again if you don't feel comfortable going in, because I know that you have your voice disguised through my company or through my center, we have telephone coaching. And again, through divorcebusting.com, you can speak to a telephone coach who is really dedicated to helping you bring back the passion and keep your marriage together. So that's first of all. And second of all, so often women rely too heavily on words. I know I asked you, how did you speak with him? Did you share with him in terms of what's going on in your heart? And it sounds like you have. And if that doesn't work, you have to stop talking and you have to take action. And if you're going to ask me what action, I need more time than we're going to have. But the action that you need to take is something you've never done before. And if you're home every night and you're predictable and you're making dinner for him and he knows that he can count on you and you're reliable and you're going to be there for him, you have to start not being quite so dependable and predictable. You need to make him wonder what's on, going. Going on with you, because otherwise, you're just like a doormat. And very often when women get through to men through action rather than words, men start to wonder, what is she feeling? What is she thinking? I better start paying attention to her. I'm really missing her. I want her in my life. And that's when they start changing their behavior, when you talk less and act more.
- [18:01]
A
Hey, Michelle, we got to take off. The same thing happened this time that happened last time. People lined up to talk to you, so too many calls. I hope we can do this again real, real soon.
- [18:10]
B
I would love to. I would love to do, like Bert said, with a couple, because, you know, to get both sides of it, because it sounds. Because so many people are angry, as if the people. The people with the lower desire are doing it on purpose. And I'm so. I'm curious to have to hear the full conversation. And maybe it would heal a lot of relationships so that both sides are presented.
- [18:30]
C
Yeah, well, just have me on. I'll be your regular. And I'll fix those sex marriages.
- [18:34]
A
We love it because you're great. Again, the name of the book, Sex Sex Star of Marriage. Their Sex Star of Wife also. And the website once again is divorcebusting.
- [18:43]
B
Com.
- [18:43]
C
Divorcebusting. Com.
- [18:45]
A
All right, Michelle. Yes. We'd love to talk to you again in another couple of weeks.
- [18:48]
C
Sounds great. Thanks for calling.
- [18:50]
B
Thanks, Michelle.
- [18:51]
A
Bye. Bye. You're on the Birch Show.