Vault: She's Worried About The Shirt Her Son's Wearing To School

Summary

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The Bert Show – Vault: “She’s Worried About The Shirt Her Son’s Wearing to School”

Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: The Bert Show Cast, featuring Crystal (Caller, Mom), Steve (Assistant Principal), Tara (Licensed Social Worker), Mandy (Caller), Kim (School Counselor), and others.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into a heartfelt, funny, and at times contentious dilemma from Crystal, a mom facing her son’s insistence on wearing his sparkly “Princess” T-shirt (a hand-me-down from his older sister) for his first day of kindergarten. The hosts, alongside expert and listener call-ins, explore questions of parental authority, childhood self-expression, gender norms, and practical “first day” anxieties. The episode brings together diverse perspectives — from parental instinct, school administration, child psychology, and “let kids be kids” advocates — in The Bert Show’s trademark candid, humorous style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: The Dilemma (01:03–04:44)

• Crystal’s 5-year-old son wants to wear his favorite shirt — a black, sparkly, “Princess” T-shirt from his big sister — for the first day of kindergarten.
• Crystal feels uncomfortable with this. Her husband thinks it’s “no big deal.”
• Crystal: “He sleeps in it... I think it’s the spark. He likes the black with the sparkles... He doesn’t know what it says. Obviously he can’t read. But to me, I just… I don’t want my son going to his first day of school with a T shirt that says Princess.” (02:57–03:19)
• The hosts gently rib Crystal about how emotional these “first day” rituals can get for parents.

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2. What’s Really the Issue? (04:46–05:11)

• The hosts press Crystal about why she’s upset.
• Co-host: "I guess I want to know your underlying issue with the word princess. Like, what are we really talking about here?" (04:46)
• Crystal: “Well, it’s for a girl. Exactly. And he’s a boy.” (04:53)

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3. School Perspective – Warnings about First Impressions (05:26–08:24)

• Steve, Assistant Principal, calls in:
  • “First impressions are very important. It’s not so much the kids you’re gonna have to worry about, it’s the faculty, it’s the staff. The parent is sending their child, a male student, to school with a princess shirt on… That really can set up some things for later on, perception wise.” (05:30–05:50)
  • Steve argues that kids can be “labeled” by peers and teachers, and these impressions can stick.
  • “It’s very easy for everyone to judge... then that’s going to be talk of the school the rest of the day.” (06:06)
  • Suggests parents should “control what their child wears at school.” (07:49)

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4. Child Psychology/Social Work Insight – It’s About Security (09:13–10:23)

• Tara, Licensed Social Worker, weighs in:
  • “...It’s security. And we are talking about, this is a big day... that might make him feel more comfortable in a really new situation.” (09:27–09:37)
  • Tara suggests compromise: shirt could be kept in his backpack or used as a comfort object, but not worn.
  • “Give him an option but not taking away maybe what makes him feel the most comfortable.” (10:14–10:23)

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5. Compromises and Creative Parenting (10:28–11:10)

• Mandy (parent caller): Proposes layering — let him wear the “princess” shirt, but cover with a button-down.
  • “I’m gonna pick out a shirt that you wear over it... so it’s almost like a layered type look.” (10:42–11:03)
  • Hosts joke about how layered clothing might look even weirder.

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6. Husband vs. Wife Viewpoint (12:16–13:14)

• Crystal recaps: Her husband “couldn’t even care about the issue whatsoever. He really thinks I’m making such a big deal about it.” (13:40)
• Hosts share anecdotes about their own “make it disappear” approach to kids’ odd attachments, comparing Crystal’s son's T-shirt to baby dolls and beloved toys.

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7. “Let Him Be!” vs. “Protect Your Kid” (14:27–21:48)

Let Him Wear It:

• Multiple callers and co-hosts argue that kids need some freedom to express themselves.
• Caller: “Let him wear whatever he wants.” (14:34)
• Caller: “Not making it that hard for him. You're giving him a lesson… approve the fact that he is his own person and can make his own decision.” (15:49)
• Another caller: “He's going to get teased about more things than wearing a princess shirt the first day of school. That's life.” (15:36)

No, Redirect:

• Kim, School Counselor:
  • “He will forever be that child who wore the pink shirt on the first day of school. These kids grow up together and stay together. And… it sounds so silly that something like that can stigmatize them, but it really, really can.” (16:53–17:15)
  • Advocates for redirecting kids to a new, special shirt “Kids can be redirected very easily.” (17:38)

On Parenting Authority:

• Co-host: “You’re the parent and you can steer the child in certain directions... I think you have to say at times I’m the parent and what I say goes… this may be your line in the sand on that.” (21:08–21:48)

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8. Long-Term Worries vs. Is it Really a Big Deal? (20:13–22:31)

• Host makes the case that elementary memories can “haunt” kids in middle and high school via yearbooks and photos:
  • “All it’s going to take is somebody looking through their pictures… especially if he is one of the less popular kids that is going to come back to haunt him.” (20:13–21:08)
• Final caller: “To me it’s just… too overdramatic. I just, I mean, I guess as a parent… I just think… you’re making too much of a big deal about it.” (22:11–22:31)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Crystal: “He sleeps in it… he doesn’t know what it says.” (02:57)
• Steve (Assistant Principal): “First impressions are very important. And it’s not so much the kids you’re gonna have to worry about, it’s the faculty, it’s the staff.” (05:30)
• Tara (Social Worker): “It's security... give him an option but not taking away maybe what makes him feel most comfortable.” (09:27–10:23)
• Kim (Counselor): “He will forever be that child who wore the pink shirt…” (16:53)
• Caller: “Let him wear what he wants — that’s life!” (15:36)
• Host (summarizing): “Right down the middle. Glad to help.” (22:31)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:03 – Crystal’s call and outlining the T-shirt dilemma
• 02:23 – The shirt’s origins and Crystal’s discomfort explained
• 05:30 – Steve (Assistant Principal) weighs in: first impressions at school
• 09:13 – Tara (Social Worker) on the importance of security objects for young children
• 10:28 – Mandy provides a compromise (layering shirts)
• 14:27 – Debate intensifies on the seriousness and implications
• 16:53 – Kim (School Counselor) on the long-term impact of “standout” moments in early school years
• 21:08 – Co-host on picking your “parental authority” battles
• 22:31 – Closing remarks: Crystal, uncertain, thanks the hosts and listeners

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Takeaways

• The dilemma bridges the personal (a child’s attachment and comfort), the social (gender norms, peer judgment), and the parental (navigating authority and compassion).
• The show offers a humorous, real-parent take — admitting that sometimes, even with all the debate, there isn’t a “one size fits all” answer. Many listeners and hosts wind up split on whether to let the boy wear his beloved shirt or redirect him for his own protection.
• The conversation highlights the mixture of anxiety, love, and second-guessing that comes with modern parenting — all in a relatable, sometimes laugh-out-loud morning radio style.

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For those weighing a similar parenting challenge: You’re not alone, and, as The Bert Show proves—sometimes the debate is the real answer!

Transcript

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[Host (Vert Show)]

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[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Well, will you look at that?

[Host (Vert Show)]

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[Host (Vert Show)]

But there aren't, right?

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[Host (Vert Show)]

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[Co-host/Commentator]

It'S.

[Host (Vert Show)]

The vert show, Tracy. Does this woman have a name?

[Carvana Representative]

Her name is Crystal.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Crystal. Crystal's got a dilemma. And what we like to do when we have listeners with dilemmas is we let them come on the air and tell their dilemma. And then people call up and half the callers say yes and the other half say no. And then the person gets off the phone and they are in the same exact place as they were when they called us. But we get to fill 20 minutes or 30 minutes of radio time. So Crystal gets to do that today. Hey, Crystal.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Hi. Hey, how are you guys?

[Host (Vert Show)]

We are well. And how are things in your house?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Well, things are a little. Things are great. I have a five year old who's starting kindergarten next week.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Okie doke.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That's a big deal when they go their first day of kindergarten.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

It is, it is. And we need to pick out a first day of school outfit. We have orientation time tomorrow for him, you know, for the teachers and the kids. But he needs a first day of school outfit. And so that's fine. But he wants to wear his favorite T shirt, which is hand me down from his big sister. And it's a black T shirt with a sparkly word on it that says princess.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And this is his favorite T shirt.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

It's his favorite.

[Host (Vert Show)]

So, like in this, I'm assuming, like the way things are going in this house is first day of school is coming up. Okay, here's what we gotta do. We gotta go Buy your supplies and we gotta go buy your backpack and you gotta go buy your first outfit.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Yeah, the first outfit. I mean, I've made it so exciting, you know, trying to tell him how important it is and first day and, you know, thinking he'd love a little polo shirt or something, you know, and he wants to wear this shirt.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And is this something that he got attached to over summer?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Oh, yes, yes. He sleeps in it. He just. And I think it's the spark. You know, he likes the black with the sparkles and he likes the lettering on it. He doesn't know what it says. Obviously he can't read. But to me, I just. I don't want my son going to his first day of school with a T shirt that says Princess.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Can't you just use, like, something and pull the last two S's off and make it look like a ghetto off center printer?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

That's not a bad idea, actually.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Maybe.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

I don't know. My husband thinks it's no big deal.

[Host (Vert Show)]

But you said it was a hand me down. Or is it something he just kind.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Of a hand me down from his big sister. She'll be in second grade. She's going into second grade. And he just. Honestly, I don't know what it is. And I really. I've tried to, you know, explain it to him. And he wants to wear that shirt. I mean, he's throwing a bit of a tantrum about it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That is so cute.

[Host (Vert Show)]

We have two issues here, because one, as a parent, can't you just make the shirt go away?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

I just. He's attached to it. I mean, it's like throwing your favorite teddy bear away. Okay, he's attached to it.

[Host (Vert Show)]

And then two, with your husband. Is this an issue between you and your husband? Because your husband's like, I don't care, let him wear it.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Yeah, in a sense. I can't believe he's gonna let his, you know, young son go to his first day of school in a T shirt that says Princess. I just. I mean, am I overreacting? I just feel like you can't do that to your child. And, you know, I know he can't read it. I know they can't read it, but there might be one who can and the teachers can read it.

[Host (Vert Show)]

And it's not like you're gonna take pictures of this day and look at him for years and years to come.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Thank you.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Thank you.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Well, go ahead.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I guess I want to know your underlying issue with the word princess. Like, what are we really talking about here?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Well, it's for a girl. Exactly. And he's a boy.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay. Just making sure.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You think maybe your husband's just wondering.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Just trying to. Not make sure. Just clarify.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Right.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Just because it's a girly thing, you don't want him to wear it.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You think you maybe might be trying to tough him up at a really young age?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Well, I'm sorry, but I just. Oh, I just. One kid reading it and pointing just might do something to him. Maybe not. Maybe I am overreacting, but I really would just rather spare him that situation.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, Steve here on the vert show.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Hey, how are y'? All?

[Host (Vert Show)]

What's up?

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Hey, listen, I'm an assistant principal, and I think what you need to realize, mom, is that first impressions are very important. And it's not so much the kids you're gonna have to worry about, it's the faculty, it's the staff. The parent is sending their child, a male student, to school with a princess shirt on.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Right.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

And that really can set up some things for later on, perception wise. So I think.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Like what?

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Well, I just. You know how we all react first, we're easy to judge.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Well, I'm just saying it's very easy for everyone to judge. And when you go in that school and your child walks in that classroom and they see that, and then that's going to be talk of the school the rest of the day. I'll guarantee it. I'll put money on it. You just got to watch out what you do. You want to do it, that's fine. But I'm just telling you, perception, it's so much in the school system, not just school, it's everywhere. But your child goes in there, then say that one kid realizes what that means, goes home and tells a parent, and then later on, you're just setting up for possible problems later on. Is it worth it? Not to me.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Next thing you know, your kid's gonna be in a band called Wham and then picking up dudes in a truck stop in the middle of the street.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I want to ask him a question since he's an administrator. So you don't think the teachers would just look at it and be like, oh, that little five year old, like, how silly he was attached to that shirt, Whatever.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Yes, I think there are some teachers that would evaluate that that way. I do think there are some people that would say, you know, what is this parent thinking sending their child to school Gotcha. With a princess shirt on, you know, and I just, I just know if it, I just know when we have kids that come dress inappropriately, we deal with it. Does it cause a school disruption? It won't, it's not going to probably in the first grade, but then again, I don't know, you probably got some kids in there that can read already that understand what that means. And you've got another male there going, hey, what are you doing with the princess shirt on?

[Co-host/Commentator]

So you're, you're more afraid of it hurting his feelings over the long run?

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

I don't know, I'm not saying, I don't know that the, I don't know that it's really going to hurt his feelings, you know, at that age.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You're just saying, given the options, he.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Probably, I think it's safer just to say, look, hey, let's, let's, let's wi fi this battle at this age. Why even, why even worry about this? Remember who the adult is here and remember that you're doing, you know, you control that, what they wear to school. And that's what we told a group of parents last night. You control what your child wears at school. You know, so these girls that come to school wearing their dresses too short or their skirts too short, or the guys wearing their pants down around their, you know, around their buttocks, you know, it's something that we deal with because in middle school that causes problems.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Thanks for the call, Steve.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Crystal, what do you think?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

I do. I mean, it just reinforces what I'm thinking. I mean, my husband isn't really taking this seriously at all. And I really do think it is serious now. It is kindergarten. I know he was thinking first grade, but still kindergarten's kindergarten. And he's right. Parents saying, oh, who let their child wear that? I think, and remembering it as the kid who did that, and first day, I think all the parents will be there and I just don't want him to do it. And I just need my husband really to step up.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, you don't want your 5 year old to be on the dress code violation list like the first day.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Well, and to think that the teachers would talk. Oh, that just.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Oh, hey, Tara.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Hey. Hi, guys. How you doing?

[Host (Vert Show)]

Now, you are very smart because you are a child psychologist.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Well, technically don't have the PhD yet, but I am a licensed social worker and I also have a degree in.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Child development and I stayed at a.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Holiday Inn last night.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

And from what I'm seeing is that obviously I'm not sure if the sparkles necessarily. I think it's security. And we are talking about, this is a big day, it's a big deal.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

We're so excited.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

It's a big step for him. And so that's something that he's really secure about, is wearing that shirt. And that might make him feel more comfortable in a really new situation. And I think, I mean, I mean, that administrator, if that's his point of view, that's fine.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

But we're not talking about middle school.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

We're talking about kindergarten. And in my opinion, kindergarten teachers should be trained for this kind of thing. And it's possible that. What if you bargained with him and said, you know, I know you love this shirt. What if we put that in your backpack? What if we bring that, you know, and you can have it with you.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

But maybe you could pick a special.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Brand new shirt that's just for you, you know what I mean? Giving him an option but not taking away maybe what makes him feel the most comfortable.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You are smart, Tara. Thank you.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

All right, thanks, guys.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, Mandy, you're on the bird show.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Hi. Well, first of all, I want to say I completely agree with the gal who was just talking. And those were basically some of my same thoughts. I thought though, instead of maybe let the child wear the shirt as the compromise, because that's probably the security of it, is having it on physically. But then say, I'm let you wear the shirt, but I'm going to pick out a shirt that you wear over it, like a button down short sleeve shirt or something like that. So it's almost like a layered type look. And that way you both are kind of getting your way. And he feels a little bit of control in the decision and it's the majority of the shirt.

[Host (Vert Show)]

And then all the other parents goes, what type of idiot parents dresses their kids in layers when it's 99?

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Layers are totally in style right now. Don't be a booger.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Thanks for that.

[Co-host/Commentator]

They might be more critical of that than the princess. Crystal.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Amanda, how old are your kids?

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

I have a son turning 5 in September. I have a 3 year old and an 11 month old.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Yep. You are totally absent of adult conversation. Cause you just want another person a booger.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Well, that's true.

[Host (Vert Show)]

I gotta let you go. I gotta go tinkle.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

I know.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

I was gonna say I need to go potty. Okay, I'll give you a gold star.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

For going tinkle potty.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, Scott. Oh, no, hold on. You're not Scott. You're Scott. What's going on, buddy?

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

How's it going, man?

[Host (Vert Show)]

How are you?

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Pretty good. Pretty good. I think she just tell the kid he can't have that shirt and take him to the store, let him pick up some sparkles and make him a little more masculine one, that he can participate in the creation of a new favorite shirt.

[Host (Vert Show)]

See, that said, princesses love me.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Bedazzle.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

That shirt, you know, a little more appropriate.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

What the hell? I don't know.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That's not really that appropriate for a 5 year old either. But, I mean, Phil.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, you know what? I'm Crystal. I'm fascinated by the conversations you've had with your husband. Like, what is he. Is he just maintaining that this is.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

He just thinks I'm crazy to even worry about it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Really?

[Host (Vert Show)]

Yeah, I honestly think it would be the exact opposite. Like, if Bert was in here, he would be saying no. I mean, didn't Burt steal? Does Hayden listen to the show? Can I say that? Oh, it's Aiden. He can't understand. Aiden's 22 in Bert's eyes. Bert didn't burt at least five.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I mean, four. I mean, three.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Yeah, I think. I think Bert. I don't want to throw Bert under the bus, though, because I think Kaden's big enough to kick his ass right now.

[Co-host/Commentator]

But that baby doll that he had.

[Host (Vert Show)]

And loved and Burt made it go away.

[Co-host/Commentator]

It disappeared. Yep. Somehow. Somehow Hayden doesn't have his baby doll anymore. Wow.

[Host (Vert Show)]

It ended up in like a grainy video on Al Jira tv.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Tied up, smoking a cigarette, hands behind his back.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So that's such an awful, awful imagery.

[Host (Vert Show)]

But, like, Burt just made it go away. So, like, why. I'm not saying this is the right answer, but is there maybe you could, like, what would happen if. What would happen if your husband came home today and you're like, you're not gonna believe this. I can't find the princess shirt.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

It's gone.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

If I said that to my husband or he said that to me.

[Host (Vert Show)]

If you said that to your husband because he is on your son's side, like, hey, go ahead and wear it. I think your first mission is gonna have to be to get your husband on your side.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Yeah, this is true. It's almost like he couldn't even care about the issue whatsoever. He really thinks I'm making such a big deal out of it. And, you know, that's a possibility. To my son, who throws the tantrum and who I don't want. You know, the one who said maybe he could take it in his backpack. I think that's not a bad idea.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Here's Another one I was just thinking about. Does he have, like a favorite style stuffed animal or something that could wear the T shirt?

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

It's. Yeah, but it's too big. It's too big. Yeah, the T shirt's too big. But no, I thought about that, too. I mean, you know, and then. I know that sounds crazy. I don't know. The idea in the backpack isn't bad. I just. Yeah, it's the whole thing. What if he takes it out? I just.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

See, I gotta be honest with you. I've been listening to this. I just. I don't even care.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I mean, I wouldn't. It's not a big deal.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Let him wear whatever he wants.

[Co-host/Commentator]

See, that's what her husband's more worried.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

She's more worried about the way she's going to be represented as a mother.

[Host (Vert Show)]

But that's her.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Yeah, but who cares? It's like, let him wear. He's in kindergarten. I mean, I'm just taking the other side here. I'm just kind of like, I've been listening and to me, he's in kindergarten.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

I mean, I know people that I've known since second grade. I mean, don't you know people that you've known forever? And they could be the ones, and they could say, yeah, you were. You know, if they known him when they become 11 or 12, say, you know, they could be teasing him for that till then, saying he wore a princess shirt or something. I mean, I see that you say.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

That, and it doesn't it not sound like that big of a deal when you repeat it back to yourself, like, that's the guy that wore a princess shirt.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Like, you just don't know with these things, though. I mean, I think.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, Jody. Yes, you're talking to Crystal.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Hey, Crystal.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

Hi.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

I think what they just said is the biggest issue. I think you're more worried about what people think of you as a parent than the child.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

No, I think the worst thing that.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

People tease him about. You have nothing to worry about, honey. I mean, he is going to get teased about more things than wearing a princess shirt the first day of school. That's life.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Yep.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

So, I mean, you either need to.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Let him, but why make it that much harder for him?

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Not making it that hard for him. You're giving him a lesson that he needs to learn anyway. I mean, let him wear the shirt. You know, the most you're going to do is, you know, approve the fact that he is his own person and can make it his own decision.

[Host (Vert Show)]

But it's age five. Like, I don't think he know he can't even process a lot of.

[Co-host/Commentator]

A lot of people that. Especially like in the Montessori schools or whatever, it's all about the child's decision. And picking out their clothes and stuff is all a really big deal.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

So even if, like the other caller said, let him wear it as a T shirt underneath, at least, you know, you're giving him a little bit of a decision to make. And it's something like the psychologist said, it's a security thing for him.

[Host (Vert Show)]

You know what? See, here's the thing, though. Okay? Thanks for the call, Jody. Here's the. I'm gonna take a call. Hey. Hey, Kim.

[Steve (Assistant Principal)]

Hey, here's.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Here's where we're coming. Because Kim is a school counselor, okay? So all the people who are. Look outside, looking in are saying, let them do it, no problem. And Kim is going to agree with the first caller that we had from the school.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Really?

[Host (Vert Show)]

This is going to be a big problem.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

I am a high school guidance counselor. And, you know, it may seem insignificant. Oh, they might tease him later. Oh, no, I see it every day. And he will forever be that child who wore the pink shirt on the first day of school. These kids grow up together and stay together. And I hate. I mean, it sounds so silly that something like that can stigmatize them, but it really, really can. I wholeheartedly believe that.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So what do you think she should do with her son and with her husband now?

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

I think that the psychologist or the sort of psychologist has suggested maybe, maybe putting it in the bag or maybe we put it in a special place in the house, you know, and we have it on a special bear. You know, we see that when we get home or something like that. But really, just encourage a new favorite shirt. Kids can be redirected very easily.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Maybe something when the hello Kitty line.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Or the Bratz.

[Tara (Child Psychologist/Social Worker) and Mandy (Caller)]

But I honestly, honestly believe, and I've been doing this a long time and I have a million degrees and none of that matters. I really just believe that that kid will be the kid forever who wore the pink shirt with his princess and sparkles.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

I'm telling you, there could be worse things, though.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Thanks, Kim.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Hey, definitely there could be worse things, but this is first day of kindergarten. It's such a big deal.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Do not let him wear it. Like, these pictures are going to be looked at for years. Like, these are the pictures that his. Yeah, he's gonna be. I'm 100% with Kim.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Totally disagree.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Hey, Spencer.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

Yep.

[Host (Vert Show)]

What's up?

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

First of all, to all my buddies out there that'll listen to me playing rugby. Yeah, I actually called in.

[Podcast Announcer (TED Talks Daily)]

The.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

For the father. The father's deal. As far as, you know, who cares what he wears? I can definitely see that, you know, as being a father's attitude. Let the kid wear the thing, let him get picked at, and then he'll realize maybe what not to do for whoever on the shows. That said, you're more worried about what people think is you as a parent. I mean, if more people were worried about what people thought of them as a parent, the whole system would be a lot better. I mean, the whole system would be a lot better.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So you're saying Crystal's concern about her son isn't just selfish, that it's a good thing that she's that concerned?

[Host (Vert Show)]

Yeah.

[Caller (Male, possibly named Jody or Spencer)]

And whoever with the show brought that up as a devil's advocate thing. I mean, that's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard, actually, is the child psychology that called in. It's not a decision. You're the adult. I mean, don't compromise. Don't wear the shirt. It sounds like it is. It's his big sister shirt. So it's probably about 10 sizes too big for him. And you're gonna put something else over the top of him. You want him to look ridiculous, do that.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Well, it is big, but it looks like a dress. So they just put a big belt around.

[Co-host/Commentator]

They belt it. Belts are in these days.

[Host (Vert Show)]

The problem's gonna be finding the scrunchie that matches the shirt for me. Oh, no. Hey, Crystal, I don't know if that got you any closer to where you need to be.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Well, you know, I appreciate him saying that. It's not that I do worry about what others think, but I do worry about how cruel kids can be. And I really do believe that they will remember that, you know, in fifth grade or sixth grade when they do start to get even meaner. And I just don't want that to follow him around. And I do feel like I got some good ideas as to how to deal with it, but I definitely don't want him to wear it.

[Host (Vert Show)]

But it's not my. Like, I don't think they'll remember it. Like, I don't think tomorrow or whenever the first day of school is, I don't think that on that day anyone is going to remember, you know, X number. Like, I don't think in second grade people are gonna still know him as that. But what is going to happen is every parent who has a kid in that class is gonna be there with a camera and then there's gonna be the first day of school picture and there's gonna be the pictures you take of him. And so different families are gonna have pictures of your kid wearing a shirt that says Princess. And all it's gonna take is somebody looking through their pictures when they are in that super cruel age. Fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th. You know, like when they're in that window and somebody going through their old pictures and goes, oh my God, look at. Especially if he is one of the less popular kids that is going to come back to haunt him. And I think you. I think that you need to look out for him.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, I think I agree about changing the shirt, but maybe for a different reason because it sort of struck a chord with me when the parents were saying or the teachers were saying that you're the parent and you can steer the child in certain directions. You know, I mean, I think that you give your child certain liberties, but I think that you also are in charge. And I think maybe this is one of those decisions that could be a very telling decision for your future relationship with your son. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think, I think you have to say at times I'm the parent and what I say goes.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Right.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I think other times you give them the freedom to choose what they want to do. So this may be your line in the sand on that. I don't know.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Yeah, your son is a high maintenance little princess.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

He's a tough little boy, I'll tell you. But that princess shirt is something else.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And Jamie, you still say let him wear it.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

Let him wear it. I just think that there's bigger battles you're gonna have to find.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Let him wear it. Even though in ninth grade one of his friends at school could find that picture in his.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I don't.

[Caller (Opposing Viewpoint)]

But see, you're talking like about these pictures and all that. I don't have any pictures from being in kindergarten. I mean, to me it's just the whole thing is too overdramatic. I just, I mean, I guess as a parent, you know, I'm not a parent. I guess, whatever. But. But yeah, I just think the whole thing is you like your husband. I think you're just making too much of a big deal about it.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Well, there you go, Crystal. Right down the middle. Glad to help.

[Crystal (Caller, Mother)]

Thanks, you guys. Good luck.

[Host (Vert Show)]

Thanks for nothing. It's the Vert Show.

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[Host (Vert Show)]

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[Host (Vert Show)]

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