Vault: Why Do Car Salesmen Treat Women Differently?

Summary

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The Bert Show (Pionaire Podcasting)

Vault Episode: Why Do Car Salesmen Treat Women Differently?

Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Bert Show dives into the enduring stereotype that women are treated differently—often unfairly—when negotiating at car dealerships. With calls from industry insiders, personal stories, and real talk from the cast, the show explores how much has truly changed, what practices still persist, and how Internet resources have shifted the power dynamic for all buyers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Do Car Salesmen Still Treat Women Differently?

• Caller 1 (anonymous, voice disguised) [00:23]:

  • Admits that, in most cases, women are treated differently.
  • "Sometimes, you know, we perpetuate the women, you know, and go into the stereotype that, you know, they, they seem to be at some time to be a little bit easier to talk to and easier to, you know, get a deal done."
    — Caller 1 [00:30]
  • Male customers are perceived as more stubborn, while some salesmen feel women may be more "ecstatic" to get the deal completed and appear less resistant.

• Training or Strategy?

  • No formal training to treat women differently, but "male species" behavioral norms persist.
  • Notes that more women are now tech-savvy and come well-prepared with research.

2. Internet as the Great Equalizer

• Caller 3 (Steve, experienced salesman) [02:44]:

  • Recognizes a big shift: "The Internet has changed everything. People can go online and get our cost." [02:52]
  • Women make over half the automotive purchasing decisions now; "You can't really take advantage. There's none of that anymore." [03:19]
  • Advantages for informed buyers regardless of gender.

• Buying Preparedness:

  • Caller 2: Shared a story about preparing online, going into dealerships with a plan, and not being swayed, indicating a leveling of the field for savvy customers [03:37].

3. Dealer Tricks (Past vs. Present)

• Caller 3 and Bert discuss old practices [04:14–05:02]:
  • In earlier days, fake fees and made-up charges were common.
  • "Like, this is an LHD charge...for your headlight fluid?" — Bert & Caller 3 [04:44–04:49]
  • Now, extra charges are typically labeled on window stickers.
  • Doing your research online is "essentially the equalizer."

4. Negotiation Tips & Non-Negotiable Fees

• Steve [05:12–06:26]:
  • Go online and get your numbers (AutomotiveNews.com, manufacturer sites, etc.)
  • Mandatory, non-negotiable fees:
    • Document fee (prep/doc fee) [06:16]
    • Sales tax
    • Lemon law fee (on new cars, usually $3)
    • Tag & title ($18)
  • "Everything else you can work with." — Steve [06:38]

5. Stories from the Lot: The High-Pressure Game

• The cast shares personal car lot horror stories [07:08–08:58]:
  • Overly aggressive sales tactics: "As soon as we pulled in...they come out from between the cars." — Bert [07:34]
  • Car keys held hostage during negotiations; customers needing to escape or even retrieve keys from rooftop.
  • These stories underline why many buyers (especially women) feel intimidated or pressured.

6. Women as Savvy Shoppers

• Bob (20+ years in the business) [09:10]:
  • "I find the women are actually more attuned to buying a car than a lot of the men. They have more expertise."
  • Points out that word-of-mouth and reputation drive good dealerships to treat everyone well.
  • "You don’t take care of one customer the right way, that customer tells someone...your reputation becomes really bad." — Bob [09:45]

7. Consumer Caution & The Importance of Research

• Caller Sandy [11:53]:

  • After six good car deals with one dealership, on her seventh, she was offered sticker price and 14% interest despite excellent credit. "Women are still at a disadvantage these days." [12:36]
  • Emphasizes walking out and not taking bad deals.

• Carl's Takeaway:

  • "If you don’t go in there and know what you’re negotiating for, that evens the playing field. So if you go in there and you don’t do the research, you’re only doing a disservice to yourself." [12:36]

8. Are Dealership Offices Bugged During Negotiations?

• Discussion of whether offices are secretly monitored while customers deliberate [13:21–14:59].
  • Steve: Admits there used to be such practices, sometimes using hidden microphones or speakerphones, but "That is 100% illegal...if they do that, they can get in a whole lot of trouble." [16:26–16:47]
  • Bert jokes: "Adding a headlight fluid charge might not be legal, but if it makes him an extra 150 bucks..." [14:06]

9. Industry Reputation & Ethical Gray Areas

• Julie (dealer employee) [15:02]:

  • Offers a harsh critique: "Car salesmen are basically scum of the scum. They all cheat on their wives and... get over on whoever they can." [15:11]
  • Cast pushes back, clarifying that while the industry's goal is profit, not all are unscrupulous.

• Steve (again) [16:20–17:19]:

  • Confirms that the most unethical practices—like bugging—are largely things of the past.
  • Recommends the movie "Suckers" for a view into the "old school" dirty tricks.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Sometimes women are so, just so ecstatic to get into a situation that they don't care what you feed them." — Caller 1 [00:30]
• "The Internet has changed everything. People can go online and get our cost." — Steve [02:52]
• "If you do your research...it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. The price is right there." — Carl [05:02]
• "You keep going back [to a dealer] because I want to feel safe, you know? Absolutely." — Caller 2 [14:44]
• "Car salesmen are basically scum of the scum" — Julie [15:11] (with lively cast rebuttal)
• "That is 100% illegal...if they do that, they can get in a whole lot of trouble." — Steve (regarding bugging negotiation rooms) [16:26]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:23]: Caller 1 discusses stereotyping and ease of negotiation with women.
• [02:44]: Steve, longtime salesman, reviews changes in industry practices and the impact of the Internet.
• [03:37]: Personal experiences entering dealerships prepared vs. dealing with pressure.
• [05:21]: Specific websites recommended for car price and rebate research.
• [06:12–06:26]: Breakdown of negotiable vs. mandatory charges.
• [07:08–08:30]: Amusing and frustrating stories about aggressive sales tactics.
• [09:10]: Bob (20+ years in car sales) on women’s increased savviness.
• [11:53]: Sandy’s story about being offered poor terms; the importance of refusing unfair deals.
• [13:21–14:59]: Discussion on rumor and reality of dealerships eavesdropping on customers.
• [15:11]: Julie delivers a sharp critique of car salesmen culture.
• [16:47]: Steve confirms practice of eavesdropping used to exist but is now illegal.
• [17:19]: Mention of the movie "Suckers" capturing old-school dealership scams.

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Key Takeaways

• Preparation is Power: Thanks to online resources, all buyers—regardless of gender—can walk into a dealership with hard numbers and confidence, mitigating much of the potential for manipulation.
• Stereotypes Persist, but Are Being Challenged: While some industry old-timers admit to past tendencies to target women as easier marks, today’s women are often even more thorough in their research than men.
• Reputation Matters: Good dealerships focus on building loyalty and avoiding bad word-of-mouth, especially in the Internet era.
• Ethics Evolve: Outdated, unethical practices like “bugging” negotiation rooms may still pop up in shady corners, but reputable dealers don’t risk it.
• If You Feel Pressured, Walk Away: No research = no leverage. The cast and callers repeatedly reinforce that an informed consumer is a protected consumer.

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The episode seamlessly combines candid stories, industry confessions, and practical advice, all delivered in The Bert Show's signature blend of humor, skepticism, and real talk—essential listening for anyone planning to buy a car, especially if you want to sidestep stereotypes and get the best deal possible.

Transcript

[Bert]

Get it?

[Carl]

The Birch Show. Good morning, Carl. You are on Q100. How are you this morning?

[Caller 1]

I'm alright. How you doing?

[Carl]

Good, thank you, sir. All right, so the stereotype here is that women get treated differently when they walk into a car dealership to negotiate for a car and you're on the voice disguiser. We don't know where you were, we don't know what part of the industry you're in, but we'd really like some real answers.

[Caller 1]

Okay.

[Carl]

Have you found that to be the case?

[Caller 1]

Most cases, yeah, it is.

[Bert]

Do they, do they train you to treat women differently?

[Caller 1]

No, I mean it's a male species. Sometimes, you know, we perpetuate the women, you know, and go into the stereotype that, you know, they, they seem to be at some time to be a little bit easier to talk to and easier to, you know, get a deal done. Most of the time when men come in, they already are so stern, they don't want to, you know, budge. But sometimes women are so, just so ecstatic to get into a situation that they don't care what you feed them.

[Caller 2]

So, you know, I think the question is, do you treat women differently in a negative way? Like do you try to take advantage of them? Like you said, they're easier to talk to and I'm sure communicating with male customers and female customers definitely naturally is going to be different. But do you purposely think, well, they're naive so I'm going to get more out of her than him?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, but the naivety. Yeah, but as far as, you know, sometimes. But I can't say that because some women do come there and they've done, they're more computer savvy and some more consumer conscious to the fact that they feel as if they will be treated differently, that you know, they go home and they do their homework, you know, in a misnomer is, you know, a lot of people, yeah, a lot of my, my comrades are gonna rag me on this, but a lot of people here on the east coast use the Kelly Blue Book and that's not a good thing to do because is west coast prices and it's usually about three or three to $4,000 more. So when you go in and you say, wow, the Kelly Blue Book says, you know, most, most dealers are happy that you use Kelly Blue Book. They're like, yeah, great.

[Carl]

Carl, hold on one second for me, okay? Because we got a bunch of other guys that are sales guys also that have been in the industry for a.

[Bert]

Really, really, really long time.

[Carl]

Let's just see if they confirm what Carl was saying. Hey, Steve, you're on Q100. Good. Thank you for calling. Thank you, man.

[Caller 2]

All right.

[Carl]

We don't want to know where you work. We don't want to know what part of the industry that you work in. We don't want to give up your identity. Okay?

[Caller 3]

Okay, good.

[Carl]

Is it true that women get treated differently in negotiating for a car than.

[Steve]

Men do in the earlier days? I've been doing this a long time. Maybe not anymore.

[Caller 2]

And why is that you think the.

[Steve]

Internet has changed everything? People can go online and get our cost.

[Bert]

So who is more prepared when they come in? Because one of our theories, and I think the first guy that we talked to kind of confirmed this, that guys will come in and they have a number in their mind and they decide, I'm going to spend 20, $20,000 on a car and nothing more. And there's no flexibility. And they're a pain to deal with. Whereas women can be reasoned with. Have you found that to be the case, or is that.

[Steve]

Yes, yes, that's true. But at the same time, you have to understand women make more than 50% of the buying decisions when it comes to automobiles these days, whereas most men, oh, I gotta go home, check with my wife. Da, da, da. They're the ones. So how do I put this? You can't really take advantage. There's none of that anymore.

[Caller 2]

It's funny how you say that, because I know that the first caller who talked about sometimes women coming in prepared because they feel the sense that they might be taken advantage of. And I say that because, I mean, the responsibility is on women, too, to be educated on it. Like, I, growing up was not really educated on cars. So I recently purchased a car, and I really, like you just said online, I prepared and I went in with a specific purpose instead of. And I wouldn't. I was not able. I went to several dealerships and. And I wasn't. I couldn't be swayed because I went in knowing they're going to try to sway me. This is what I want, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, it may be the case where now everybody's on the level playing field.

[Bert]

I'm just curious.

[Caller 3]

Back in the day, when you said that they were. That women were manipulated, did salesmen use, like, fake acronyms or, like, fake fees or, like, make up different costs and throw them in there and just sort of make them up off the top of their head?

[Steve]

They were different costs because for one, sales. Sales reps as a whole, or general they have no control over cost. That's done at the desk from the sales manager. So it's just you work a deal from A to Z, and I guess how you're reading it in there as to what you can get away with.

[Caller 3]

Like, this is an LHD charge, you know, and then, like, they wouldn't know.

[Bert]

Is this for your headlight fluid?

[Caller 3]

Or they. Yeah, they would feel. They would feel dumb to ask, what is that?

[Steve]

They're able to do that by these little stickers they put beside the original MSRP on the car. They're just trying to make extra money doing that anyway.

[Carl]

So, I mean, this could be a pretty short conversation. Then what you're saying is, if you do your research on it, you should go in there with a price and know it anyway. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. The price is right there.

[Steve]

Exactly. All you got to do is get on the Internet. Plus, it'll tell you any rebates and even hidden dealer cash.

[Carl]

Can you give us specific websites to go to to even the playing field?

[Steve]

You can go to any of the manufacturer's place sites, or you can also go to automotivenews.com automotive news. AutomotiveNews.com will give you rebates on any car out there.

[Carl]

All right, so if you're a woman and you're thinking about, you're a little intimidated to go and negotiate your own car, what he's saying is you go to one of these websites right here, you've got it right there. There's no negotiation. There it is.

[Steve]

You're done.

[Carl]

That's it.

[Steve]

People walk in like that were like, oh, well. And you just give it away and go on about your daily business.

[Bert]

Now, other than the purchase price of the car, the sales tax on the car, and. And the.

[Steve]

It's called dealer prep fee or dock fee that's at any dealership you go to. Now, that can be negotiable, but at one time, it can't be taken away because they're printed on a buyer's order. If you take one away from one person, you're opening yourself up for a lawsuit from the whole industry, because then you'd have to remove it for everyone out there that you've ever sold a car to.

[Bert]

Okay, so which one is that? The document fee or the prep doc fee?

[Steve]

Document fee.

[Bert]

That one's negotiable. What are the other mandatory ones that are not negotiable? Obviously, the sales price is negotiable, but sales tax can't be Sales tax is not negotiable.

[Steve]

The $3 lemon law, which is only on new cars. Warranty rights or lemon law, that's not negotiable. And $18 tag and title, that's non negotiable. That's what the state charges.

[Bert]

But everything else you can work with.

[Steve]

Absolutely. All right.

[Carl]

Just go to one of these websites. Okay. Again, those websites to go to. To give you an even playing field.

[Steve]

You can go to any of the manufacturers websites, any of them, and they'll list them. Also. AutomotiveNews.com. that's probably the best.

[Carl]

Fantastic. Thank you very much for calling.

[Steve]

You're very welcome. Have a great day.

[Carl]

You too.

[Caller 3]

Appreciate it.

[Carl]

He just sounds like a car salesman. You have a great day too. Give you a little wink, a little gun. Little gun toting thing.

[Caller 2]

Is that how it sounds?

[Bert]

Do you guys ever. When you're shopping for a car and you get at the car dealership and you drive by and you see one, you're like, oh, I want to go look at that. Whatever it is, you know, like, almost like you're in a rush to look at it before the guy, the salesperson makes it over to you. Hey, how you doing today? What's your name? Because you don't want. I just want. I just want to see it. I want to see it close up. Want to look inside. I'm out.

[Caller 2]

Katie and I one time were on a lot when I was looking for a car, and it was almost like Night of the Living Dead. As soon as we pulled in and we were slowly going by, all of.

[Bert]

A sudden they come out from between the cars.

[Carl]

Just like, get out, get out, get out.

[Caller 2]

Quick. Lock the door, lock the door.

[Sandy]

Roll out the windows.

[Bert]

Go, go, go. I had a friend of mine who was buying his first car at like 21 or 22. And it was. I don't know if it was a new car or one that was slightly used, but he was getting it from a dealership and they actually trapped him at the dealership and to the point where trying to escape, he lost his shoe.

[Caller 3]

And he called me, like, locked him behind closed doors.

[Bert]

No, they said, you can test drive this, but then you have to give us the keys to your car so we can go evaluate it for the trade in. And then they wouldn't give him his keys back. So they sat him down in the finance manager's office and they were def. I mean, it was like two hours. And every time he would leave, the sales manager would come over and like, they wouldn't give him his Car keys back. So he had to climb out the window of the finance manager's office and his shoe fell off.

[Carl]

I told you about the dude I used to work with in Dallas. Said that he wanted to go buy a car before he was in radio. And they took his car keys. He goes for a test drive and they're negotiating and they wouldn't budge. And he's like, I can't budge. This is all I have. So they took his car keys and they threw them on the top on the roof of the car dealership and said, you sit right here, we are going to negotiate this car.

[Caller 3]

I remember you telling us that story. And he actually had to on the roof to go get his keys.

[Carl]

He had to call somebody. Yeah. To go get the keys on the roof of the car dealer.

[Bert]

Did he have to call like a friend to go to bring a ladder?

[Carl]

I'm not sure the end of it. I don't know. I never asked. All right, so this is Bob. He is on the voice disguiser. Also. Also been in the car industry for over 20 years. Bob, is there anything you heard over the last 10 minutes that you don't agree with?

[Steve]

Pretty much the same thing. You know, I personally have been where with dealerships where we treat women the same way as we treat men. I find the women are actually more attuned to buying a car than a lot of the men. They have more expertise. They do more looking into the websites on the Internet. They check things out actually more than a lot of men do.

[Caller 3]

So maybe our fear is fueling us to do the research more than the guys.

[Steve]

I don't think it's fair. I think that there are some dealerships out there that are not scrupulous. Some of these smaller ones, if you go to a reputable dealership, they will actually take good care of you. They don't want to lose any customers because you don't take care of one customer the right way. That customer tells someone, who tells someone, and right away your reputation becomes really bad. So you basically take care of the customers the right way.

[Bert]

Let me ask you a question. In terms of general. Somebody else say it.

[Caller 3]

Generalities.

[Bert]

Thank you. How much drug.

[Caller 2]

Sorry about that.

[Bert]

Yeah. When you walk up and you look at the sticker price on a new car, how much lower should you initially offer off of that sticker? Like in terms of a percentage, people.

[Steve]

Think that there's 18 to 20% like they used to have back a long time ago. Right now, realistically, you're having off of the sticker price, you have generally 6 to 8% off of the sticker price. Sometimes you do have dealer cash. Some dealers have rebates. The other gentleman that had said gone to go to the website automotivenews.com that's a very good thing to do. Also you can go to cars.com or edmunds.com they're very reputable dealers, dealer sites and you'll find things out. But you know, the most important things right now with the Internet, especially people, they know what the cost of the cars are.

[Carl]

Yeah, that's the common denominator we're hearing today is that the. Yeah, the whole negotiation advantage is completely taken away now. But it's in your hands to do five minutes of research on the car that you want and then go in there with some confidence because there it is in black and white and you really can't negotiate it. Hey, Sandy, what's up?

[Sandy]

Hey. I just wanted to sort of give all the women out there another caution that yeah, they do try to take advantage of women still today. I just tried. Well, I bought six cars from the same dealer because they had treated me so well. Went to buy the seventh one and you know, I didn't have, of course the same sales guy and they came out, offered me sticker price and I have excellent credit. They offered me a payment with 14% interest and no, nothing on my trade in. So I went off on the guy and left immediately. So women are, women are still at a disadvantage. Advantage these days.

[Carl]

Then how do you know that you're not. But you're not. What you're saying is if you don't go in there and know what you're negotiating for, that, that evens the playing field. So if you go in there and you don't do the research, you're only doing a disservice to yourself. I mean the car dealership and a salesman's job is to make as much money for himself and the company as he can. If you take that away from him, that's your fault, not his.

[Sandy]

Well, I know I did. I didn't take the deal. I walked out. But there was one thing I wanted you to ask maybe on the rad, because we finally ended up finding a car and buying it, me and my son. But I think that the dealerships, their offices are bugged. I think they listen to the conversation when they leave the desk.

[Caller 2]

Oh, that's funny.

[Bert]

That's a good point. That's really good question.

[Carl]

I would love to know the answer to that. All of our sales guys that were on before Aren't around anymore, but let me react.

[Bert]

They can just call back and tell.

[Carl]

Lindell, if you're one of those sales guys that we just had on. There is this common belief that the negotiation is kind of bugged.

[Caller 2]

Because, you know, when you're. If you've never bought a car before, then you go in, and then you go into this office with your salesperson, and then you're negotiating a price. They say, well, hold on, I gotta go ask my manager. And they get up and they leave to go ask the manager. Really probably going to get a cup of coffee. But the question is, if while they're gone and you're sitting there talking to whoever you're with, if they're bugging that conversation or they go sit.

[Bert]

They go sit in the manager's office and turn on whatever channel is.

[Carl]

I don't even think that would be legal, would it?

[Bert]

I don't know.

[Carl]

I don't.

[Bert]

Adding a headlight fluid charge might not be legal, but if it makes him an extra 150 bucks.

[Caller 2]

Wow. And I do want to say one thing. While we're waiting on those managers to call, that she brought up. That I think is a positive point for dealerships and businesses. And this includes, I think, mechanics as well. Because there is, like Jen said earlier, a kind of a fear of women thinking when it comes to cars. And anything dealing with cars, we're being taken advantage of because they think we don't know. But that woman who just, you know, she had a bad experience with her seventh car, but she bought six. Six cars from the same dealership because she had good experience. And I think especially for women, and I'm sure men, the same thing. But, man, if I had a mechanic or a dealership that treated me well, I would always, always, I would be so loyal to that company.

[Carl]

You keep going back.

[Caller 2]

Because I want to feel safe, you know? Absolutely.

[Carl]

We're still waiting for those sales guys to call back, but I would be really interested to find out. I don't think any of those conversations are bugged. I think we're being paranoid.

[Bert]

But I bet we just give somebody great ideas. I mean, think about it. As soon as you get up and walk away.

[Carl]

Not even legal.

[Bert]

Probably not. But come on. You do what you gotta do to make a buck.

[Carl]

Julie, you're on the voice disguiser. What's up?

[Steve]

I have worked at a car dealership.

[Caller 1]

Now for nine years, and car salesmen.

[Steve]

Are basically scum of the scum. They all cheat on their wives and.

[Caller 2]

What?

[Carl]

How do you know this?

[Steve]

Get over on whoever they can. And I mean, there's some good.

[Bert]

Like, I mean we have to also remember what their job is like. The infidelity part of that conversation aside. Like they're not trying to get over on as many people as they can. As Bert stated, their job is to make as much money as they can for the dealership and for their own commission. So if somebody walks in there and is not prepared, as we learned, you can easily be with some time on the Internet and somebody walks in there, they're going to jack up the price, jack up the interest rate, add on some extra fees, and it's your job to be educated against that. So you can't say, oh, they're scum. They're trying to make a living.

[Carl]

They're trying to make money off of me. That's like sales people.

[Bert]

That's like getting mad at the Houston's waiter for recommending the spinach dip. Hey, you're not going to get one over on me.

[Caller 3]

You're trying to upcharge that extra dip.

[Bert]

Slipping in the spinach dip bill.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Carl]

Have you ever bugged the dealership to listen in on a conversation of negotiation.

[Steve]

That is 100% illegal? They used to do it back the first place I worked for about 13 years ago, actually had the ability to do that. And what we do is we just, we hit the speakerphone button on the, you know, on the phone before we leave the office. But it was 100% illegal for any dealership to do that. And if they do that, they can get in a whole lot of trouble.

[Caller 2]

Wow.

[Carl]

So you're saying it was a practice that used to be done though?

[Steve]

Absolutely. It used to be done. There was some guys who would go as far as going to little spy stores and getting a little microphones that look like pens and that look like other office supplies and they would hide them in their office and they'd go into the other room. If you ever get a chance, there's a great movie, it's called Suckers and it shows all the old school practices. And any car guy who's ever been out has watched this movie, knows this movie because it literally shows all the kinky stuff that dealerships used to do.

[Bert]

You know, there's some old school dealers who are still doing that. Oh, you know, some guys, the guy, the guy who still smokes in his office, the ceiling tiles are yellow.

[Caller 2]

The guys on the, the small lots with like 50 cars on a half acre lot that have a trailer right there, sell it, whatever it is on the lot.

[Bert]

Buy Here, pay here.

[Caller 2]

Yeah.

[Carl]

8, 7 ounce Q100.

[Bert]

Bert, show all the juicy info you need from Hollywood. Get it?

[Steve]

The Birch Show.