Vault: Why Do Women With Kids Make Less Money Than Their Peers?

Summary

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The Bert Show: Vault – "Why Do Women With Kids Make Less Money Than Their Peers?"

Date: April 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and at times heated episode, The Bert Show tackles the persistent and controversial issue of the "motherhood penalty"—the reality that women with children often make less money than their childless peers, and even less than men. The hosts and callers discuss research findings, societal pressures, gender roles, workplace biases, and their own personal fears and doubts regarding parenthood and careers. The show features a mix of statistics, personal stories, and differing viewpoints, sparking authentic debate about work, family, gender, and identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Motherhood Penalty" in Pay and Hiring

• Research reveals mothers face significant workplace discrimination:
  • Mothers are 100% less likely to be hired over childless women candidates ([02:13]).
  • When hired, mothers receive offers of $11,000 less per year than childless women ([02:29]).
  • Consistent perception: mothers are seen as "less competent and less committed" ([02:19]).

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2. Caller Alicia’s Controversial View: "Moms Shouldn't Work"

• Alicia calls in to share her strong opinion:
  • “I don’t think women that have kids should be working at all. I think it’s disgusting. … It’s disgusting when people have kids and at six weeks old, they put them in daycare for strangers to raise them.” ([02:38], Alicia)
  • Champions traditional gender roles: men as providers, women as caregivers.
  • Critiques mothers who split focus, claims colleagues cover for working moms on the job.
  • Memorable exchange:
    • Melissa Carter: "That's hilarious." ([03:02], Melissa Carter)
    • Alicia: "Excuse me?" ([03:04], Alicia)

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3. Rebuttals from Hosts and Listeners

• Addressing Alicia’s take:
  • Tracy, expecting a child herself, shares her struggle with guilt and societal expectations.
  • “For me, there have been times where I wonder if I'm less of a mother because I'm choosing not to be at home… I'd be bored if I stayed home all the time.” ([05:04], Tracy)
  • Host points out the stark contrast in guilt placed upon mothers vs. fathers: “Is a man going to feel that way? Has a man ever thought to himself, like, am I less of a dad because I have a job?” ([05:50], Host Chris)
  • Melissa Carter discusses fear of losing personal identity to motherhood:
    • “My fear of being a mother is I lose my identity… I don’t want to have to trade off being Melissa Carter to being so and so’s mother.” ([05:59], Melissa Carter)

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4. The Gendered Double Standard

• Hosts highlight that men rarely face the same pressures:
  • Men do not typically feel guilty for working nor experience a loss of identity ([06:27], Melissa Carter).
  • “Men don't have to lose their identity, lose their job. They can have everything … A woman doesn't have that as easily.”
• Discussion on evolving gender norms:
  • Jen observes that attitudes are slowly changing as more women control family planning and career choices ([06:49]-[07:13], Jen).

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5. Caller Ty: Dual Income Reality and Household Decisions

• Ty rebuts Alicia, foregrounding economic necessity:
  • “For most families with children, both members of the family have to work just to make ends meet… Usually it’s for the kids—you want them to be able to play sports, go to a nicer school, that type of thing.” ([07:47], Ty)
  • Stresses that family work decisions often come down to who earns more and who provides insurance, not simply preference or luxury.
  • On workplace gender gap: “Generally speaking, men are making more money than women are for the same job.” ([09:33], Ty)

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6. Stay-at-Home Dads and Societal Perceptions

• Hosts debate the social stigma and emotional complexity:
  • Jen asks the men: “Is that an honorable thing for a guy to do?” if his wife is the main breadwinner and he stays home. ([10:15], Jen)
    • Scott: “Honorable. I think it’s honorable. … I would make fun of him, but I would think it’s cool.” ([10:33], Scott)
  • Tracy shares her own discomfort: “If Scott didn’t work from home … and he was the stay-at-home father … I don’t think I’d like it. … I think I would feel bummed and upset that she needed him more than she needed me.” ([10:39]-[11:14], Tracy)
• Melissa Carter hopes for genuine co-parenting:
  • “I hope for that so that every child can be equally as bonded with their mother and father or whatever home they're a part of. … Then it just being one parent overly there for the child and the other one always gone.” ([11:23]-[12:18], Melissa Carter)

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7. Caller Chris: On Judgment & Progress

• Chris calls in (voice disguised) to share his and his partner's struggle with guilt as working parents:
  • “We both work. We’re workaholics … and the guilt never goes away … But there’s no question, if you can have a parent or family member in the home to raise the kids versus not, you should. … But, you know, life isn’t fair and we should still try and change.” ([12:41]-[13:52], Chris Caller)
  • Notes the danger in attacking others for their opinions—change should come, but empathy is needed, especially given different life experiences.

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8. Women Without Kids & The Conversation Around Choice

• Melissa Carter and Jen defend their ability to weigh in:
  • Acknowledge their perspective is different but informed by workplace and societal shifts affecting women’s choices ([13:52]-[14:18], Melissa Carter; [14:18], Jen).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Alicia: "I don't think women that have kids should be working at all. I think it's disgusting." ([02:38])
• Melissa Carter: "That's hilarious." ([03:02])
• Tracy: "For me, there have been times where I wonder if I'm less of a mother because I'm choosing not to be at home." ([05:04])
• Ty: "For most families that have children, they're finding it. Both members of the families have to work just to make ends meet." ([07:47])
• Scott: "Honorable. I think it’s honorable... I would make fun of him, but I would think it’s cool." ([10:33])
• Tracy: "If Scott didn’t work from home ... I don't think I'd like it." ([10:39])
• Melissa Carter: "I hope for [co-parenting] so every child can be equally as bonded with their mother and father..." ([11:23])
• Chris (Caller): "If you can have a parent or a family member in the home to raise the kids versus not, you should. You just should. If you can, you should." ([13:52])
• Melissa Carter: "Men don’t have to lose their identity, lose their job. They can have everything ... A woman doesn't have that as easily." ([05:59])

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Important Timestamps

• [02:02] – Core topic introduction: The pay gap for mothers vs. childless women.
• [02:38] – Alicia’s call and controversial opinion.
• [05:04] – Tracy shares her internal struggle about being a working mother.
• [05:59] – Melissa Carter discusses identity and motherhood.
• [07:47] – Ty explains the real economics behind dual-income families.
• [10:15] – Discussion on stay-at-home dads and shifting gender norms.
• [11:23] – Co-parenting advocacy and its importance for child-parent bonds.
• [12:41] – Chris (caller) on working parent guilt and the need for empathy.
• [13:52] – Melissa and Jen respond to the critique about their perspectives.

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains The Bert Show’s characteristic lively, direct, and humorous tone, with a frank and personal approach to taboo topics. While some discussions are heated and opinions strongly held, the hosts generally strive for inclusivity, empathy, and openness to changing norms.

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In Summary

This episode provides an honest, multifaceted conversation about why mothers may earn less, the lingering double standards in parenting and work, and the emotional battles modern women (and men) face. By weaving together research, real stories, and listeners' voices, The Bert Show both challenges and humanizes the ongoing debates about gender, work, and family life.

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Transcript

[Bert]

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[Bert]

pay gap between mothers and childless women

[Host (Chris)]

that we've been talking about.

[Bert]

It's actually bigger than the pay gap

[Host (Chris)]

between women and men. We also found out this morning that researchers found that the mother was 100%

[Bert]

less likely to be hired when she applied for a position against a childless peer.

[Host (Chris)]

Mothers were consistently ranked as less competent and less committed than non moms. And when they were offered a gig,

[Bert]

$11,000 a year less is what they

[Host (Chris)]

got offered than the woman that didn't have kids. Alicia says this is all stupid anyway because mom shouldn't be working. Hey, Alicia. Good morning.

[Alicia]

Yeah, this is not gonna win me any friends with the feminist movement, but I don't think women that have kids should be working at all. I think it's disgusting. It's disgusting when people have kids and at six weeks old, they put them in daycare for strangers to raise them. Why should men be forced to change their roles? That evolution has created for thousands of years as protector and provider so that women can have it all.

[Melissa Carter]

That's hilarious.

[Alicia]

Excuse me?

[Melissa Carter]

I said that's hilarious.

[Alicia]

Well, you know, that's just how I feel. I've seen women. I have seen co workers have to leave suddenly in the middle of important deadlines because their kid is sick. I'm not getting extra time off work because my dog has to go to the vet. You know what? Pay attention to your child, because that is where your dedication should be.

[Jen]

Do you have children?

[Scott]

What if it was a. I'm sorry,

[Host (Chris)]

do you have children?

[Alicia]

No, I don't. I chose not to have children.

[Scott]

What if it was a family situation where. Let's say. Let's use Tracy and Scott as an example, and let's say Tracy, they had an agreement that Scott would stay home with the kids, but Tracy would work 9 to 5 and have a regular office job. Is that okay?

[Alicia]

Yes. If there's a parent in the home with the child, I think that's fine. But when everybody wants work so they can have a nicer car or better house and have some. And have their poor child being raised by strangers, and then they wonder when the kids in a. When the kid's older and a teenager, who is this child?

[Tracy]

But what if you're a single mother? Well, then you should have been more careful.

[Melissa Carter]

You should have been more careful.

[Host (Chris)]

Seriously.

[Chris Caller]

Wow.

[Scott]

You should have been more careful about what?

[Alicia]

Not having a kid.

[Scott]

Then what if you're.

[Tracy]

By being a widow?

[Scott]

No, not the widow. But what if your husband left you?

[Alicia]

Well, actually, I am a widow. Unfortunately, I didn't have children before he died.

[Scott]

But what if, like, what if your husband left you and you're a mom and you. I mean, is there. Are there any exceptions to the rule?

[Alicia]

Well, you can go to court and take care of things that way, but

[Bert]

I mean, there's absolutely, there is absolutely

[Host (Chris)]

no circumstance where there shouldn't be one of the parents in the home with the child.

[Alicia]

No, there are always, there are always going to be circumstances where you don't have to, you, where you can't have one parent in the, in the, in the home. But I'm saying when women have a choice to get pregnant or to have a career, I think they should choose the child over the career.

[Host (Chris)]

Tracy, what do you got? I mean, you're about to have a child.

[Tracy]

I mean, I don't agree with her, obviously, because I'm choosing to have a career, too. But I will be completely honest and say I don't think. I mean, for me, there has been times where I wonder if there's something, if I'm less of a mother because I'm choosing not to be at home. I mean, I'm going to choose to work and I mean financially, I have to continue working and career wise, I think I'd be bored if I stayed home all the time. But then it's like you read all these mommy blogs about, like, you know, all the things, the playgroups that they do and all the things that they're doing with their kids during the day, and you do wonder, like, am I less of a mom because of that

[Host (Chris)]

Boy, did Stacy struggle with that? She struggled with that thought because she thought that she was going to work when we had Hayden also. And she, she had tremendous feelings of guilt about going to work and having Hayden in daycare or whatever.

[Tracy]

But it goes along the same argument. I mean, I don't think a man, I mean, is a man going to feel that way? Has a man ever thought to himself, like, am I less of a dad because I have a job?

[Host (Chris)]

I'm sure there are some, but as a general rule, no.

[Melissa Carter]

And, you know, and women have to have, have to make that choice. I mean, on the other end of what Tracy said, I mean, Katie and I have had this conversation. My fear of being a mother is I lose my identity. Like, I don't, you know, the fact that I'm considering being a mother is one thing, but I don't want to have to trade off being Melissa Carter to being so and so's mother. In all honesty, I'm, I just, I have a hard time with that and

[Scott]

heaping that stress on top of the stress you're already feeling for the digital transition.

[Melissa Carter]

I'm telling you, I mean, I've only got a couple days, but anyway, so I do, I think for women I think it's unfair that women have to go through that mental process and men don't, because men don't have to lose their identity, lose their job. They can have everything. They can have their identity, their job, a higher salary and kids. And a woman doesn't have that as easily.

[Host (Chris)]

It's another conversation for another time. I don't entirely agree with that.

[Jen]

And I think it's changing over time. I mean, if you think about it, and we've talked about this on the air before, like, I mean, most of the homes that we grew up in were very traditional gender roles still. My parents are very traditional gender roles, their grandparents. I mean, this is really the first generation of women that has always grown up with the potential of birth control, with the potential of not having to have children.

[Scott]

Hear that, Tracy? Birth control.

[Jen]

But you know what I'm saying? I mean, I think that it. We can. We can expect change, but it's not going to happen overnight, and it's not going to happen just in one or two generations of people to completely change the mentalities about all of it, but it is changing. I don't think that we're stuck in the 1950s anymore, but I also think in 50 years from now, it's gonna be a whole lot different. I think there's gonna be a lot more co parenting. And that's where I think the battle is gonna be between men and women with children and men and women without in the workplace.

[Host (Chris)]

Here's Ty and he says we're missing the point entirely. Go ahead, ty, you're on Q100.

[Ty]

Hey, how's it going, Burcho?

[Host (Chris)]

Thanks for calling, man.

[Ty]

I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, honestly. And I'm gonna digress a little bit because I heard one of the other women that came on that did not have any children, you know, kind of looking down her nose a little bit at those of us that do, you know, and her, I definitely think she was missing the point, thinking that people were working, you know, dual income families just so that they could have nicer cars and things of that nature. She's clueless. I think that for most families that have children, they're finding it. Both members of the families have to work just to make ends meet. And also believe that, you know, if you're wanting things extra, usually it's for the kids. You want them to be able to play sports, you want them to be able to, you know, go to a nicer school, you know, that type of thing. And I definitely don't see a problem with that. But my original point was that goes back to the fact that. That generally speaking, men are making more money than women are for the same job. And a lot of this role can get reversed within families, and I've actually seen it happen. But for the most part, with both couples working together, they actually have to figure out which member of the family is a making more money, who has the insurance, Is there a specific job that requires travel and base the decision basically making like a disposable job. One job is more important to keep than the other one is. So that parent winds up doing more of the I'm going to the PTA meetings or, you know, picking the kids up from school and having to leave work early and that type of thing, going to the doctor's appointments. You know, with myself and my wife, we actually have a little bit more of a comparable income. So we kind of both do those things. But like I said, I've seen the roles reversed where it was actually, the woman was really the sole bread winner in the family. And even though the husband worked, he was the one actually having to take off and do most of the stuff just because her job was. It was more important to the family for her to keep her job.

[Host (Chris)]

All right, Ty, hold on one sec. For us, Got to get to other costs. I think it's a general rule, though. It's the woman that's kind of. She's running out.

[Jen]

Question for the guys in the room.

[Scott]

Yes.

[Jen]

Is that an honorable thing for a guy to do? What's that in your mind if he's the one? Like, say you guys have a married friend's married couple, got a kid, wife makes more money, guy picks up the slack and does more of the parenting. Is that an honorable thing to you, or do you look down on him?

[Scott]

Honorable. I think it's honorable.

[Melissa Carter]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I would think it's cool. I would make fun of him, but I would think it's cool.

[Tracy]

They would.

[Ty]

Like.

[Scott]

I would call him Mr. Mom and Stuff.

[Tracy]

If I were being honest, though, if Scott didn't work from home, like, if his job physically was not at the house and he was the stay at home father and I was working, I don't think I'd like it.

[Ty]

Really?

[Scott]

Why?

[Tracy]

Because I think that would make me feel even worse. Like I was. I'm not. Let me say, for the record, I don't think my feelings are correct. I'm just saying that this is how I feel. That for me, I think I would feel bummed and upset that she needed him more than she needed me. And that she, like, it already bothers me.

[Scott]

It's not that she needs him, it's just that he's the available one.

[Tracy]

Yeah, I know. I mean, it already bothers me because since he does work from home and I get to work so early that he is going to be the first person she sees every single morning. And that already bugs me.

[Melissa Carter]

I do think it, I mean, in this scenario where if one parent is not as available as the other, it does. I do think that makes an influence on the kid. But I'm. But from a more extreme case, how

[Scott]

does that feel, Traci?

[Melissa Carter]

No, no, no, not necessarily Traci' because he's working from home and she's working. And I do think that with Tracy and Scott, it's going to be. It's a different scenario than what I'm thinking of. I'm talking about the dad or the mom. Either way, that works all day long. That has gone, you know, works that 18 hour day and the other parent is there 24, seven for that child. That does influence that child. And the child sees the parents differently and has a different bond with the parents differently. And that's why when Jen brings up co parenting, I hope for that so that every child can be equally as bonded with their mother and father or whatever home they're a part of. In my home, it will be two mothers. Then it just being one parent overly there for the child and the other one always gone.

[Tracy]

And I think we're fortunate because of the hours that I, you know, that my job requires where I can get here so early and then, you know, halfway through the day, typically I'm done or I can be working from home. So he'll have her in the morning and then as soon as I get home, that's when he'll shut the door and he'll start working. And then I have her all throughout the afternoon. So it will be like a co parenting thing. But if it were him doing most of the parenting, I think I'd feel bad about it.

[Host (Chris)]

Good morning. Chris wants to be on the voice disguiser. Go ahead, Chris.

[Chris Caller]

Yeah, I just, you know, I'm married, kid in the oven, one's here and we both work. We're workaholics. You know, we have a guilt. We are great parents in some respects and the guilt never goes away. And I just think that, you know, what the caller said, I think she was very extreme. She knows she was extreme. She was conceding, you know, in certain situations you should change it. But for Melissa And Jen, I mean, I'm not trying to attack you. You guys don't have kids. I think you guys respect that. You know, it's not necessarily fair for you to comment, but in the end, change is good if change is for an improvement. And, you know, no one should go back 50 years. I think to progress, people should get paid what they bring to the table. I mean, if they bring value and you, you're more productive than someone else, you'd hope, you know, that's how you get paid. But that's not how it works. And life isn't fair. And we should still try and change. But there's no question, if you can have a parent or a family member in the home to raise the kids versus not you should. You just should. If you can, you should. And I think that's what she's saying. And I think when you start attacking someone for having opinions, that is, you know, I want the mom to be in the home or whatever, I just don't think that's fair to do. And I don't, I don't think, especially when you'll have kids. And that's all I wanted to say.

[Melissa Carter]

Well, I appreciate that. I mean, it's true. Jen and I don't have children. But it's also true that from your perspective as a man, you don't understand where we're coming from as women. You know what I mean? So our opinion is coming based from that study, talking about how it's done in the workplace and at home. And Jen and my decision in our minds as well as Tracy's about having a family and the decision making we have to make on whether to have children because we're all three professional women. And I think that's where our comments stem from.

[Jen]

Well, and my comments towards that woman was towards a woman who also didn't have kids.

[Melissa Carter]

That's true.

[Host (Chris)]

And she.

[Melissa Carter]

That's true.

[Jen]

I mean, I'm confused on where he's

[Ty]

coming from on that.

[Host (Chris)]

And she felt very strongly.

[Jen]

She felt very strongly about it, but she didn't have kids.

[Bert]

Anyway, whatev the Birch Show.

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