Vault: Women Explain Why They Don't Want To Get Married

Summary

The Bert Show

Episode: Vault: Women Explain Why They Don't Want To Get Married

Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Bert & Bert Show Cast (Melissa, Tracy, Wendy, Bert, and callers)
Podcast: Pionaire Podcasting

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the often-overlooked perspective of women who choose not to get married. Challenging traditional stereotypes, the conversation dives into reasons why some women of various ages say "no" to marriage—even when in loving relationships. The hosts and callers discuss social expectations, generational attitudes, the impact of divorce, commitment, and personal beliefs about love and partnership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging the Stereotype: Not All Women Want to Get Married

• Melissa introduces a Newsweek editorial by Bonnie Eslinger, a 42-year-old woman choosing love without marriage.

• Bonnie’s Story: Despite her boyfriend proposing, Bonnie concludes she doesn't need marriage "to prove that we love each other."

  • "I don't think that I need a piece of paper, in her words, to prove that we love each other." (Melissa, 00:56)
  • Her decision is influenced partly by friends, particularly gay friends, who cannot legally marry.

• Host Reaction:

  • "Which seems so against the cliche, you know, because the stereotype is every woman is ready to get married, and all guys are the ones that don't really need marriage, don't need the piece of paper." (Host, 01:28)

2. Generational Differences & Divorce’s Influence

• Younger women (20s) and older women (40s) may avoid marriage for different reasons.
  • Tracy: "Maybe if it's because she's 42, she's old enough and wise enough to realize that she's a completely different person now than she was when she was 32 and then from 32 to 22." (Tracy, 02:28)
• The prevalence of divorce shapes skepticism:
  • "I think my generation was skeptical of marriage because all of our parents are divorced and...the relationships in our life that are supposed to be the role model relationships don't work out." (Tracy, 03:13)

3. Is Marriage Necessary for Commitment?

• Multiple young callers (early 20s) express the view that love and commitment don’t require marriage.
  • "Marriage is a piece of paper...What's the big difference? Because pretty much, you already love that person. You're already committed to that person. What's it really matter?" (Caller, 03:38)
• Host provides counterpoint: Legal commitment can solidify long-term endurance in rough patches:
  • "When you do get married, it's a long haul...I'm not sure if I wasn't married...I would have weathered it." (Host, 03:49)

4. Personal Experiences & Relationships

• Wendy: Believes marriage not only isn’t necessary, but may even negatively affect people:
  • "I think marriage, like, ages you, too. Like, when you're married, you look a lot older...it seems to wear people down." (Wendy, 04:33)
  • Light-hearted banter follows about "marriage aging in dog years." (Bert, Host, 04:51-04:54)
• Julie (Caller): Parents together for 33 years, never married:
  • "I've seen them having, you know, huge fights...every time they work through their fights and stay together, it's because I guess they really love each other." (Caller, 05:18)
• Host recounts story: A woman breaks up with her dream boyfriend after he says he never wants marriage, illustrating its importance to some.

5. Finding the Right Match and Mutual Understanding

• Key to relationship success is aligning values:
  • "If you truly believe that is what I want as a marriage, or you truly believe you don't, if you find somebody that feels the very same way you do...it'll work." (Melissa, 06:23)

6. The Role of Religion and Public Display

• Julie (Caller, 25): Dislikes the idea of making love a public affair and sees marriage as rooted in Christianity.
  • "I don't really think that I should have to go to a church and, like, stand up in front of everybody...It shouldn't be about anyone else but you and that other person." (Julie, 07:14)
• Melissa: Notes you can legalize a union without a church wedding.
• Some pushback from hosts and Bert: Marriages exist in many religions and cultures.
  • "I mean, I think you get married in every religion, right?" (Host, 07:59)

7. The Complexity of Commitment and Promises

• Caller in a relationship with a married man struggles with his inability to make future promises.
  • Melissa: "First of all, he's already shown you he can't make a commitment because he couldn't to his wife." (Melissa, 09:58)
  • Bert: "There's no difference between a commitment and a promise if they're coming from a person who lies." (Bert, 11:00)

8. Reflections on Lifelong Love and Marriage Realities

• Host shares a "dark" but memorable quote from a long-married couple:
  • "What's the secret to keeping your relationship together for 50 years? ...We never fell out of love with each other at the same time." (Host, 12:02)
• The segment ends on the idea that for marriage (or not) to work, both partners must truly want the same thing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Melissa: “I don't think that I need a piece of paper, in her words, to prove that we love each other.” (00:56)
• Host: “Which seems so against the cliche…every woman is ready to get married…” (01:28)
• Caller (21): "Marriage is piece of paper...What's the big difference? Because pretty much, like, you already love that person. You're already committed to that person. What's it really matter?" (03:38)
• Wendy: "I think marriage, like, ages you, too. Like, when you're married, you look a lot older..." (04:33)
• Bert: "Well, marriage ages you." (04:51)
• Caller (Julie): "I've seen them having...huge fights...every time they work through their fights and stay together, it's because I guess they really love each other." (05:18)
• Melissa: “If you truly believe that that is what I want as a marriage, or you truly believe you don’t...if you find somebody that feels the very same way you do, then...it’ll work...” (06:23)
• Julie (Caller): "I don't really think that I should have to go to a church and, like, stand up in front of everybody I know to say that I'm in love with somebody...It shouldn't be about anyone else but you and that other person." (07:14)
• Bert: “There’s no difference between a commitment and a promise if they’re coming from a person who lies.” (11:00)
• Host (quoting): "We never fell out of love with each other at the same time." (12:02)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:28 – Introduction of Bonnie Eslinger's editorial and starting the conversation
• 01:28–03:36 – Challenging stereotypes and examining age/generational perspectives
• 03:36–05:47 – Callers share views: commitment, divorce, and marriage as a "piece of paper"
• 05:47–07:04 – Importance of value alignment, finding the right match
• 07:04–08:38 – The role of public display, religion, and "Christianity" in marriage
• 08:53–10:38 – Call-in about commitment, affairs, and honesty in relationships
• 10:38–12:02 – Interplay between promises, trust, and commitment
• 12:02–12:42 – The "never fell out of love at the same time" anecdote and final reflections

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Summary Takeaway

This episode provides a lively, honest conversation about marriage and partnership, focusing on the growing number of women (and men) who find fulfillment outside of traditional marriage. Rooted in real-life stories, generational trends, and candid opinions, the dialogue highlights the importance of self-awareness, mutual understanding, and rethinking what long-term commitment really means. The tone is irreverent and supportive, packed with humor, empathy, and honest debate—hallmarks of The Bert Show's engaging style.

Transcript

[Host]

Hey, the Birch Show. What's going on, Melissa?

[Melissa]

I was looking through Newsweek the other week and came across this editorial that I thought was interesting, and I wondered if it really applied to a lot of women and even some guys. I'm sure to a lot of guys. But I think it was surprising from a woman. It's editorial written by a woman named Bonnie Eslinger, and she is titled Guest. To love, no to marriage. And she was talking about this guy that she has been with now for several years. And she went to visit her. Her boyfriend's family, and they were just about to live together. So they were talking about all the things about living together. They've been together about three years now. And her s. Her. Her boyfriend's sister said to her, well, aren't you doing things a little backwards? Like, when are y' all getting married? Like, I expected y' all to come with an announcement of marriage and not about the fact that you're living together. And so she was kind of hounding her about, well, when are you gonna get married? Cause if you're living together, why not go ahead and pop the question. Why not have marriage? And. And it made her really think about it. She said her boyfriend had. Had asked her the question, will you marry me? And she took time to think about it and then realized, you know what? I don't think that I need a piece of paper, in her words, to prove that we love each other. And she said that she is friends with a lot of gay friends who can't get married. And so that entered into her decision making as well. But the main thing is. And she's 42 now, but she's like, I really thought about the institution of marriage and how sometimes it doesn't work out. And I made the conscious decision to. To say no, that we don't. We. It's not that I don't want to marry you, but I just don't think that it is a necessary process for us to take.

[Host]

Which seems like so against the cliche, you know, because the stereotype is every woman is ready to get married, and all guys are the ones that don't really need marriage, don't need the piece of paper. But a woman, I mean, yeah, she's ready. She was ready yesterday, right?

[Melissa]

And I'm curious of her age. Like, she's 42, so she's a little older. So I wonder if by that point she's like, well, if I'm 42, do I really want to go through the ceremony or all that. All that. I mean, I'm just wondering because she didn't put that in the article. But I'm curious if a 20 something year old woman who you would think, like you said, stereotypically is like ready to get married and dreaming about the day and already planning and already gathering her wedding planner magazines and everything, if she would actually be the one to also say, you know what, I don't, I don't really believe in the institution of marriage.

[Host]

Well, it'd be different people. Right. Because if you were, if you're in your 20s already and you have that folder full of bride stuff and wedding stuff, then you're probably not.

[Melissa]

That's what you expect a 20 something year old to have.

[Host]

But we're looking for like the female George Clooney.

[Melissa]

Yeah, it's just like I don't need that.

[Host]

I don't believe in the institution. It doesn't matter if I'm 20, 30, 40, I will never, ever, ever, ever get married.

[Tracy]

I think if, maybe if it's because she's 42, she's old enough and wise enough to realize that she's a completely different person now than she was when she was 32 and then from 32 to 22. So she just figures she's probably going to change a lot over the next 40 years. So how does she know she's really going to want to be with that person forever?

[Wendy]

Maybe I'm in no rush to get married. I don't really care to get married.

[Host]

Well, I think there's a difference though, like because you say you're in no rush, I think that we'll probably end up finding women today around your age, 22, that just are, no matter what, I will never get married. You're open to it?

[Wendy]

I'm open to it. But I don't think you have to have marriage in order to stay in a relationship with somebody. I don't think I need to get married. As long as you're with somebody and you have a commitment, it shouldn't matter.

[Tracy]

But your parents are divorced, right?

[Host]

They are.

[Tracy]

I think there might be a difference between the women that are, you know, Wendy's age that don't want to get married and the women that are 42. I think it's two totally different reasons. I think my generation was skeptical of marriage because all of our parents are divorced and we all, you know, the relationships in our life that are supposed to be the role model, relationships don't work out. So what makes us think that ours are going to? Whereas when you're 42, you might also just be set in your ways. And you've been independent your entire life, so it's a lot harder for you to make that commitment.

[Host]

Morning, Q100.

[Caller]

Hi. I'm 21 years old, and to me, like, marriage is piece of paper.

[Melissa]

Okay. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, it's just, like, what's the big difference? Because pretty much, like, you already love that person. You're already committed to that person. What's it really matter?

[Host]

I just think it does. I mean, it makes it a lot easier to. To take off if you guys are going through rough periods if you're not married. Like, when you do get married, it's. It's a long haul. Right. And you go through ups and downs. Right. And I'm not sure if I wasn't married and didn't have that legal or commitment, I'm not sure I would have weathered it. I'm not sure.

[Caller]

You know, I have so many people that tell me that, and, like, I can understand that perspective, but I don't know. It's just. I mean, if you already love somebody, then, and you're already committed to that person, then what's a piece of paper going on?

[Melissa]

What Tracy just said. Are your parents divorced?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Melissa]

Okay. Do you think that has an influence on why you feel that way?

[Caller]

It might. I haven't really thought about it, and.

[Wendy]

I think marriage, like, ages you, too. Like, when you're married, you look a lot older, fat. Well, not to be, like, rude or anything, but, like. Like, when you get older, it seems to, like, like, wear people down. And I see, like, even when we go to restaurants and stuff, I see guys who aren't married, and they still look like they are in their 20s and they're in their late 30s.

[Bert]

Well, marriage ages you.

[Host]

Like, in dog years.

[Melissa]

Yep. See?

[Wendy]

And that's another reason not to get married.

[Host]

I'm 22 years old. I look like I'm 78. Hey, Julie, you're on Q100.

[Caller]

Hey. How are you?

[Host]

Hey.

[Caller]

My parents have been together for 33 years. Well, it'll be 33 years in April. And they're not married.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Bert]

You're illegitimate.

[Melissa]

Oh, come on. I hate that. I hate that word more than anything.

[Caller]

But they just refuse to get married. I mean, I've asked them before, you know, why wouldn't you get married? And they've just said the same thing. You know, we don't believe that we need a piece of paper to prove that we love each other and that we're. And that we want to be together. And I mean, I've seen them having, you know, huge fights. And I used to get worried when I was little. Oh, my God, you know, it'd be so easy for my dad to just leave or my mom to just leave. And in a way, I think that it made them stronger because every time they work through their fights and stay together, it's because I guess they really love each other.

[Host]

You remember Susie, when we were talking around the world, Susie, she was dating this guy for a year, right? And she thought this was going to be the guy she was going to be with for the rest of her life. And after a year, out of nowhere, he just said, I just want to let you know, when it comes to this marriage thing, I think you and I can do it without being married. And she loved everything about this guy. He was perfect in every way, shape or form. But she had to make a decision. Is this the way I really want to go with my life? This is something that I've dreamt about my entire life. Do I really want to be in a relationship that is marriageless and she dumped the guy? It's not just not for me.

[Melissa]

Right. I think that is, you know, you're finding that the more important thing for a couple is what. And Bert said this over and over again, what makes sense to them? I know we've said that over and over, but I think for some, if they have this idealistic view of marriage and go into it without being willing to do the work that marriage takes or even a relationship takes. But I think that if you're in it, if you don't understand what your decision is, then I think that's when the marriages don't work. But if you truly believe that that is what I want as a marriage, or you truly believe you don't, if and you find somebody that feels the very same way you do, then regardless of whether you get married or not, I think it'll be fine and it'll work like that. Last caller's parents. 30 something years together, but they both agree on the same issue and they've worked out fine.

[Host]

Morning. Q100. Good morning.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Host]

Are you at the printing press or something?

[Melissa]

Sorry.

[Julie]

I gotta know how this whole thing works.

[Bert]

She's at the loom.

[Julie]

I'm 25 and I don't really want to get married. I don't really think that again, that you should have, like, that I should have to go to a church and like, stand up in front of everybody I know to say that I'm in love with somebody and I want to spend the rest of my life with them. I think it really shouldn't be about anyone else but you and that other person.

[Melissa]

Well, and you can, you know, you can still legalize your union as a straight couple without having to go in front of the church and in front of everybody. Is it more about the public display or is it about the actual license?

[Julie]

It's not so much about the public display, but I'm not really big on, like, Christianity. And so I think that it is kind of a Christian institution, marriage, for the most part.

[Host]

Is that true?

[Bert]

I don't think so.

[Host]

I mean, I think you get married in every religion, right?

[Julie]

Perhaps. I don't know. Maybe that's just my view.

[Bert]

You're ruining her argument. You know what the problem is with marriage is it's only for right handed people. Left handed people get married too. No, it doesn't matter.

[Julie]

I mean, like, why do most weddings take place in churches? And what is. I mean, you know, the last several that I've been to have been at a church with a minister, et cetera.

[Bert]

Well, do you have any friends that are Muslim or Jewish?

[Julie]

I don't.

[Bert]

Well, then there you go.

[Host]

They tend not to get married in churches.

[Melissa]

Well, let's just say I haven't been.

[Bert]

To a lot of Jewish weddings.

[Melissa]

She feels that there's a religious influence in marriage. We'll leave it at that.

[Tracy]

Oh, I definitely agree with that because we got married in the church. And for me, I mean, the legal aspect, like, that's easy to get, you know, to dissolve that and you can easily just go to the courthouse with that. But the hard part for me would be, I mean, it was a spiritual commitment that I made and that would be harder for me to turn my back on.

[Host]

Hey, Barbara, you're on Q100.

[Caller]

Hi, Bert. How are you?

[Melissa]

All right.

[Host]

How are you?

[Caller]

I'm really good. I've been in a relationship for over a year with a man that is. My son's in the car, so I can't say it, but. M A R R, I, E B. Oh, married.

[Melissa]

Yeah.

[Host]

No.

[Bert]

So you're having an affair.

[Melissa]

So you're the mistress.

[Host]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Host]

Okay.

[Caller]

And it's falling apart. And I've known that from the very beginning. But we actually had the conversation last night about whether he's able to make a commitment to me. And he said that he wants to, but he can't. That he thinks that commitment is a promise and that he can't make me any promises about our future.

[Host]

Do you think he can't commit to you because he's in a committed marriage.

[Caller]

It's not a committed. It's not a committed.

[Bert]

Honey, first of all, it's not a committed marriage. Then yes it is, cuz it's a marriage.

[Melissa]

Yeah, let me. First of all, he's already shown you he can't make a commitment because he couldn't to his wife. And secondly, if you've been dating him a year. Is that what you said? How long have you been dating?

[Caller]

Over a year.

[Melissa]

You know he's not gonna leave his wife, so. For you. So that's just. If nobody's told you that, I'm telling you that right now.

[Tracy]

And if he does some, he's gonna leave you for somebody else.

[Host]

Yeah. Wouldn't you always worry about that?

[Bert]

And if that doesn't happen, you're gonna catch a horrible disease.

[Host]

We are doomed here, aren't we?

[Bert]

If you don't catch a horrible disease, you're gonna fall off the face of the earth.

[Melissa]

She's a mistress.

[Bert]

You'll stop being affected by gravity.

[Melissa]

She's a. She's a mistress. And I'm just. I'm just telling her the truth. He's not gonna leave you, his wife for you.

[Host]

I don't understand what your point is on the whole the commitment as opposed to marriage thing though.

[Caller]

What do you guys consider a commitment and what do you guys consider a promise? Do you think it's the same thing?

[Host]

Well, a commitment to me, I mean, for me was when I committed to my wife in our marriage, I committed for the rest of our lives.

[Bert]

And by the way, there's no difference between a commitment and a promise if they're coming from a person who lies. Which is what? The guy when he is cheating on his wife.

[Melissa]

Why are you.

[Host]

It's a legal commitment.

[Tracy]

Also, are you talking about a promise to be with you forever or a promise to only be with you and just you right now?

[Caller]

No, in the future, down the road.

[Bert]

After he leaves his wife, but before you catch the horrible disease and float away.

[Host]

Thank you for calling. Bye bye. Yeah, I mean, the phone lines were lit up with like 22, 23 year olds saying, I just know now I will never, ever, ever get married.

[Melissa]

And I do think that Tracy has a great point about there's a whole generation of kids who have divorced parents. And it's really kind of unique because those divorced parents came from a generation of parents who stayed together. Now, I'm not saying that couples that stayed together for 50 years were happy and that was a happy household. It was just harder and sometimes just taboo to have a divorce back then, you know what I mean?

[Host]

I heard a quote the other day, I wanted to from a friend who. It's just so depressing when it comes to marriage. Who knows a couple that was married for 50 years and asked the man in the committed in the marriage, what's the secret to keeping your relationship together for 50 years? And his answer to her was, we never fell out of love with each other at the same time. Oh, wow.

[Melissa]

Ouch.

[Host]

So they were, I guess, the ebbing and flowing of the relationship. He'd be out of love, but she was in love and that kept it together. And then there would be other cycles when it was just the opposite, and that's what kept them together. And you hear something like that and you're like, how can you not feel dark about marriage?

[Melissa]

You know, my feeling is because I can get married. If you were told that you could not get married to the person you're with, it depends on if you would have anger or relief in your heart. And that kind of determines whether or not you would, you know, should be with that person or ask that person to marry you.

[Host]

Hey, the bird show.