🌎 Google Maps: The *Actual* ‘Everything App’ | 31

Summary

The Best Idea Yet: Google Maps - The Actual ‘Everything App’ | Episode 31

Release Date: May 13, 2025

In this episode of The Best Idea Yet, hosts Nick Martell and Jack Crivici-Kramer delve deep into the origin story of Google Maps, unraveling the journey from a frustrated programmer’s quest for better navigation tools to becoming the omnipresent “Everything App” that billions rely on today.

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1. Introduction: Navigating the World with Google Maps

Nick opens the conversation by discussing the universal need for direction and how Google Maps has revolutionized geographic literacy. He states, “Google Maps impact goes beyond navigation. It helped transform maps and the Internet itself from something you read into something you interact with” (02:31).

Jack echoes this sentiment, emphasizing Google Maps’ foundational role: “Without this product, Google wouldn't be nearly the company it is today” (01:42).

2. The Birth of Google Maps: Jens Rasmussen’s Vision

The story begins in 2003 with Jens Rasmussen, a Danish programmer frustrated with the limitations of existing map services like MapQuest. Jens found himself stuck trying to navigate to a childhood cafe in Copenhagen, lamenting, “There has to be a better way” (04:20).

Determined to innovate, Jens teams up with his brother Lars, a PhD in computer science, and fellow coders Noel Gordon and Stephen Ma. Together, they embark on creating a new map service called Expedition. Jens introduces the concept of "tiles," pre-drawn sections of maps that enable seamless scrolling and interaction, overcoming the slow, static maps of the time: “Think of it like a giant digital jigsaw puzzle, but only the pieces you need get sent to you” (08:48).

3. Joining Forces with Google: A Game-Changing Acquisition

After developing a prototype, the brothers pitch Expedition to venture capital firms, including the renowned Sequoia Capital, but face rejection. However, an unexpected turn of events leads them to Larry Page, Google’s co-founder. Larry recognizes the potential of their technology, especially its ability to retain the 25% of Google search users seeking directions: “If Google had a map just like this, people looking for directions wouldn't click away to a competitor” (16:19).

Google acquires Expedition for an estimated $50 million, integrating Jens and Lars into the Google Maps team. However, Larry sets an ambitious deadline: launch Google Maps publicly by February 2005, demanding rapid scaling from a single prototype to a comprehensive map of North America (20:19).

4. Launch and Initial Success: Google Maps Goes Live

Under immense pressure, the team brings in young Product Manager Brett Taylor, who revolutionizes Google Maps by optimizing the code, making it ten times faster and more reliable. Thanks to these swift improvements, Google Maps successfully launches in February 2005, offering users an expandable map with effortless scrolling and zooming: “You're never getting lost again” (22:44).

The public reception is overwhelmingly positive. Within a year, Google Maps is even referenced in popular culture, such as an SNL sketch, highlighting its integration into everyday life: “Google Maps is the best” (23:52).

5. Expanding Features: Satellite and Street View

To maintain its competitive edge, Google integrates Keyhole technology, acquired from a CIA-funded venture firm specializing in 3D flyover maps. This addition introduces Satellite View, allowing users to see their surroundings from above with real-time updates: “It becomes a fun feature that draws more people into Google Maps” (27:38).

Further innovation comes from the DARPA Grand Challenge, where Sebastian Thrun proposes an ambitious project to create a comprehensive street-level database. This vision leads to the development of Street View, capturing millions of miles of roads worldwide and transforming Google Maps into a dynamic, interactive platform: “Street View made Google Maps go viral because it gave people a reason to gather in groups and stare at a map” (27:46).

6. Integration with Mobile: The iPhone Era

The launch of the iPhone in 2007 marks a pivotal moment for Google Maps. Apple partners with Google to integrate Maps into the iPhone, significantly boosting its user base: “Within 18 months, iPhones account for more Google Maps usage than all other phones and computers combined” (34:45).

This mobile integration introduces crowdsourced traffic data, enabling real-time congestion tracking and dynamic route adjustments: “Google Maps changed all that with crowdsourced traffic data” (35:33).

7. Competition and Apple Maps: A Rival Emerges

The harmony between Google and Apple sours when Google launches Android, its own mobile operating system directly competing with the iPhone. Steve Jobs publicly criticizes Google, leading Apple to develop its own map service.

When Apple Maps launches in 2012, it faces significant backlash due to inaccuracies: “Like, I think at one point they wrote Interstate 280 instead of Interstate” (37:28). Despite rapid fixes, Google Maps maintains its dominance, boasting approximately 2 billion monthly users compared to Apple Maps’ 200-600 million (38:01).

8. Google Maps Today and Its Impact: Powering the App Economy

Today, Google Maps is integral to countless applications, from Uber and Doordash to Tinder. Its extensive business listings have evolved into comprehensive mini-websites, driving local business profitability: “Businesses set up their own listings on the platform. Because if you don't appear on Google Maps, then you may as well not exist for thousands of customers” (38:24).

Google Maps not only facilitates navigation but also serves as a crucial discovery tool, enhancing user engagement through interactive features and user-generated content.

9. Takeaways: Building a Platform that Grows Itself

Jack summarizes the key insights: “If you build a platform, others may do the work for you. Google Maps became way more than just directions. It became an essential discovery platform, matching customers with businesses” (40:31).

Nick adds, “Don’t correct the customer. Instead, redirect them” (40:30). This philosophy underscores Google Maps’ user-friendly approach, enhancing satisfaction by adapting to users’ needs rather than imposing rigid instructions.

10. Best Facts Yet: Surprising and Intriguing Insights

• Accidental Diplomacy: In 2010, Google Maps mistakenly erased Costa Rica’s border, inciting a military conflict with Nicaragua. Google had to manually correct the error to prevent escalation (41:29).

• Cognitive Impact: Over-reliance on GPS directions can diminish the hippocampus’s function, crucial for memory and learning: “Research has shown that reliance on GPS directions like Google Maps could reduce the functioning of your hippocampus” (42:00).

• Cultural Penetration: Google Maps’ quick integration into popular culture, such as being mentioned in an SNL sketch, exemplifies its widespread acceptance and influence (23:52).

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Conclusion

Google Maps exemplifies how a single innovative idea, driven by persistent problem-solving and strategic acquisitions, can transform into a global essential tool. From Jens Rasmussen’s initial frustration to Google's expansive, interactive platform, this episode highlights the bold risks and relentless pursuit of excellence that made Google Maps the best idea yet.

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Timestamps:

• Introduction of Topic: 00:10
• Jens Rasmussen’s Frustration: 04:20
• Concept of Tiles: 08:48
• Acquisition by Google: 16:19
• Google Maps Launch: 22:44
• Satellite and Street View Integration: 27:38
• iPhone Integration: 34:45
• Apple Maps Launch: 37:28
• Google Maps Impact Today: 38:24
• Takeaways and Best Facts: 39:26

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Note: All timestamps correspond to sections within the podcast transcript.

Transcript

[Nick Martell]

Wondery subscribers can listen to the best idea yet, early and ad free right now.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Wondery. Jack, would you say that the world breaks down into two types of people? Those who have a sense of direction and those who simply do not?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. Although anyone who comes out of the subway in the Lower east side of Manhattan doesn't have a sense of direction. There's no grid, there's no numbers. It's just chaos down there.

[Nick Martell]

It's a vortex. But in general, we all have that buddy Timmy, who, like, knows exactly where their car is parked, and then the other buddy who thinks Southwest is just an airline. Geographic literacy, if you will.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Right.

[Nick Martell]

But Jack, I discovered that there is also a behavioral element here on your sense of direction based on where you grew up.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Is that so?

[Nick Martell]

It is so, Jack, if you grew up in a urban situation versus a rural one. So if you grew up in like a farm environment, you have a better sense of direction. Kind of like your upbringing, man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Okay. Because we grabbed onto landmarks as a way to orient ourselves.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, like, you know, meet me by that tall hill, by the oak tree across from the sunset pond kind of a thing. Meanwhile, I, like, grew up in a city, so, like, if I had to meet someone on Fifth Avenue and 14th street, as long as I could count numbers, I was going to be fine.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Right?

[Nick Martell]

But yet is whether you are geographically literate or not, especially though, if you are not, you're going to need a good map. And today we are talking about the single most popular map of all.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Nick, you're talking about a product that ushered in a new era for humanity, one where you will never get lost.

[Nick Martell]

Again unless your phone dies.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Simply put, without this product, Google wouldn't be nearly the company it is today. And so many of the apps we rely on, like Uber, Airbnb, Strava, and others, they wouldn't even exist.

[Nick Martell]

This invention lets you zoom out and view Earth from orbit, or zoom in and find your nearest coffee shop, and then gives you step by step directions on how to get there. See the menu, read the customer reviews, show you the vibe with a virtual tour, and even tell you how long you're going to have to wait for that mocha cookie crumb frappuccino.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We're talking about Google maps.

[Nick Martell]

More than 2 billion people use Google Maps every month. 800 people use Google Maps every second.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And helping all those people also helps Google. Because it's estimated that Google maps sneakily generates $11 billion a year of additional ad sales for that tech giant.

[Nick Martell]

Google Maps impact goes beyond navigation. It helped transform maps and the Internet itself from something you read into something you interact with. Turning the map from a single dimensional tool into a multidimensional economy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But few people know the true story of how Google Maps began. Its origin takes us from the quiet coffee houses of Copenhagen to a Mad Max style road race between self driving cars.

[Nick Martell]

On the way, we'll discover how Google co founder Larry Page found inspiration for Google Street View in the middle of the desert. No, we're not talking about Burning man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And even the CIA is gonna get involved.

[Nick Martell]

So besties, let's hit the road. Jack, I'm calling shotgun. The destination is on your left.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Here's why Google Maps is the best idea yet.

[Nick Martell]

From Wondery and T Boy. I'm Nick Martell.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And I'm Jack Crevici Kramer.

[Nick Martell]

And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You'Re obsessed with and the bold risks takers who made them go viral. I got that feeling again. Something familiar but new. We got it coming to you. I got that feeling again. They changed the game in one move. Here's how they broke all the room. Last year, law and crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. And one question still did Karen Reid kill John o' Keefe? This isn't just a retrial. It's a second chance at the truth. Listen to episodes of the Retrial exclusively and ad free on Wondery.

[Nick Martell]

Jens Rasmussen frowns at his computer screen in Denmark as he drums his figures against the desk. As he waits, he's searching for directions to a tiny cafe on the outskirts of Copenhagen, one that he remembers from his childhood, tucked away on a side street whose name escapes him. Finally, the website he's using, MapQuest, starts slowly loading a featureless maze of streets, their names crammed along them in squashed font. Jens squints a bit and he thinks he recognizes the area. If only he could zoom out a little to get some context. But he hesitates. If he clicks the zoom button, he'll have to endure another frustrating wait as MapQuest redraws and then reloads the entire map. Jens exhales sharply. Then he curses in Danish. It's 2003. There has to be a better way, he thinks.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now a lot of people would get up from their computer in frustration and just pick out a different, closer coffee shop. But Jens, he's the type of guy who gets fixated on things. And right now, the Wheels in his mind are cranking. What if digital maps could be better? What if they weren't just static pictures? What if you could freely pan, scroll and explore them and then get more than just direction, but information like movie listings, restaurant menus, opening hours. Maps could be more than just a way to help you find your way. They could help you live your life.

[Nick Martell]

So Jens, he's got some momentum now and he gets on the phone with his big brother, Lars. Both these guys, they are talented coders. They actually both worked in Silicon Valley and they both recently lost their jobs in the dot com crash. Once again, nothing kicks off an entrepreneurial innovation quite like an economic downturn. The recurring supporting character of our podcast.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jens, recently returned to Denmark and money is tight. So he's moved back in with his mom. But Lars stayed in California's Bay Area. He's sharing a house in Berkeley and trying to land a new tech job.

[Nick Martell]

Jens and Lars, what great Danish names for a couple brothers, right, Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They sound like a couple of contestants in the World's Strongest man competition.

[Nick Martell]

They probably grew up engineering Legos. Together they look really similar. I mean, they could both fit in into a police lineup of Nordic Lumberjacks, but they have very different vibes.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Lars is more by the book. He's got a PhD in computer science.

[Nick Martell]

While Jens, he's more of a tear up the book kind of thinker, creative, brilliant programmer. He's a pessimist who dropped out of college, but he also channels his pessimism into finding solutions to problems.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So when Lars in California gets a collect call from Jens, he's happy to accept the charges because he knows if Jens is making an effort to call, he's probably found a massive problem and more importantly, a brilliant idea for how to fix it.

[Nick Martell]

Jens just goes off on how crappy MapQuest is. I mean, he's just shredding this software. Do you remember MapQuest, by the way?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I just remember printing MapQuest from my printer.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, we would, like, have a youth hockey game on Long island and my dad would have 12 sheets of paper printed out just to get us off the lie. But back to our two brothers here. Jens hits Lars with a solution. It's a solution that actually comes in two parts.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The first part is tiles, not the kind you have in your bathroom. We're talking digital tiles, each containing the image of part of a map. Jens thinks tiles are the solution to making an online map service that's way faster than MapQuest.

[Nick Martell]

Now, Yetis, you may not remember MapQuest, even though technically it is still around. But back in the early 2000s, this was by far the biggest online map service. But it did share the same problem as its competitors at the time. You type in your starting point and your destination and that request was then sent to a server which then drew a new static map image and then they would send this back to your computer browser along with a long list of text based directions. Pretty basic, but also pretty complicated.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Also pretty slow. Yeah, it's like the Flintstones version of a Polaroid camera.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, I don't see this scaling, Jack. I don't see it scaling.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Drawing the map each and every time like this is slow. And when it loads onto your computer screen, you can't scroll around. If you want to see one block east, you need to wait for the entire map to get redrawn and then sent to your computer again.

[Nick Martell]

But remember our guy Jens? He's a solutions dude and he's got an idea. He wants to pre draw the maps in small manageable pieces called tiles.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Think of it like a giant digital jigsaw puzzle, but only the pieces you need get sent to you. Now you don't have to wait for the server to painstakingly draw a new one. Instead, the different pieces are sent to you in the background and snap together instantly when you start scrolling. It means creating a seamless scrollable map in real time. That's part one of the idea.

[Nick Martell]

And you know what? This idea, it sounds promising. But Jens isn't finished yet. Because now he's on to part two of his new idea for a better digital map.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The tiles idea is a leap in the technology of how to deliver digital maps. But Jens also has a conceptual leap that even us liberal arts majors can appreciate. An entirely new way of thinking about digital maps. In fact, his idea is an entirely new way to think about how people can use the Internet to go about their daily lives.

[Nick Martell]

He asked Lars to imagine planning a trip to the movies. But instead of searching just for the theater's address, you search the map for the movie you want to see. And then the map would show you where you can see it, the show times you can watch it and even let you buy the tickets with a few clicks again directly in the map.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He basically wants to take the two dimensional static map from something you just read into a multi dimensional canvas that you can truly interact with. Like it's a digital concierge that helps you plan your business trips, plan your night out, plan the coffee shop you're going to stop at on the way to the train station.

[Nick Martell]

Basically Plan out your entire life through the map. And what does Lars think? Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He's sold.

[Nick Martell]

Oh yeah. Partly because this is a truly special idea. And partly because he's picturing a day when his idea of fine dining isn't mixing together two flavors of instant ramen. As for Jens, well, he's ready to move out of his mom's place, despite the hearty Danish home cooking.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So Jens and Lars decide to go all in and bet their future on a whole new way of thinking about maps. They call their new project Expedition.

[Nick Martell]

Jens and Lars are both ace coders, but pretty quickly they hit a a four letter hurdle. HTML.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

What a buzz kill. The key reason why existing map websites are so painfully slow is what they're made out of. They run on HTML.

[Nick Martell]

The thing is, HTML wasn't designed for interactive experiences. HTML was originally built for a super simple function text, like a blog post. It is not what you would use to build a map of planet Earth. So using HTML to build a seamless, scrollable, dynamic map is kind of like trying to build a life size Chrysler Building out of Jenga blocks.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's technically possible, but the foundations will be so shaky, even Tom Cruise wouldn't dare climb it.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, he wouldn't go near a check.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And that's why the digital maps of the 2000s era feel so stiff and slow. They're really web pages first and maps second.

[Nick Martell]

So Jens and Lars and their other buddies from this ragtag team, Noel Gordon and Stephen Ma, decide the way around the limitations of HTML and the web is ditch them all together. Instead of running Expedition in a web browser, they decide to make it a standalone program that users download and install.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They've got their concept. An interactive map that's much more than just a map. Now it's time to build a prototype. And they immediately hit another wall. This time it's not a tech problem, it's a money problem.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, so it turns out map data costs a fortune. Like the kind of fine, detailed street level mapping data that Jens and Lars need. It's owned by just a handful of companies with names like Navtech and Tel Al. And these companies, they want a whopping 100 grand a month just for the data on California.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jens and Lars obviously don't have that kind of cash. They barely have enough kroner for meatballs and the occasional Friday night Carlsberg. But they don't give up. They managed to sweet talk a contact at one of these mapping companies into giving them the data of just a few blocks of Berkeley, California.

[Nick Martell]

Look, it's not much, but it is just enough to build a prototype. So they spend the next 18 months working around the clock on this single scrapbook square shaped map of downtown Berkeley. Jens cashes in on his pension. They max out their credit cards, the meatballs. These things are on pause till Christmas.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Eventually they land a pitch meeting with Sequoia, which in our opinion is the most prolific and certainly one of the biggest venture capital firms on earth. If venture capital were a world map, then these guys are pangea. They were early investors in most of the big tech successes since Apple.

[Nick Martell]

So this is a huge opportunity. And the pitch, it goes smoothly. Our Danish bros they are vibing. But sadly, Sequoia passes on the deal. Sequoia only invests if all of its partners are in agreement together. And in this case there is one single holdout who just doesn't see a future in Expedition.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But after the meeting, something unexpected happens. Jens and Lars are handing in their lanyards at the Sequoia front desk. But as they turn to leave, one of the Sequoia investors dashes out and grabs Jens by the army and he.

[Nick Martell]

Says, hey, I see something in your Expedition idea. Now, he can't fund them individually, but this guy knows someone who just might be able to. A guy by the name of Larry, a guy who co founded one of the fund's portfolio companies. A company that goes by the name Google. Today, Google is a $2 trillion conglomerate known by its corporate name, Alphabet. But let's sprinkle on some context about where Google was when it was just six years years old.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You're talking about the year 2004?

[Nick Martell]

Yes, I am, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Google has gone from two guys in a garage in Menlo Park, California to the most popular search engine on the planet. But at this point, Google is mainly just that, a search engine. There's no Gmail, no Google Docs, no Android.

[Nick Martell]

But Google has figured out what no one else has figured out before. How to make Internet search into a profit puppy. They're actually pulling in one $1.6 billion in revenue at this time, thanks to Google AdWords, their innovative pay per click advertising system that Google launched back in 2000.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's the early 2000s, so if you search for shoes, you might see ads for Ugg boots. And every time you do, it means more advertising dollars going to Google.

[Nick Martell]

But Jack, we should point out there is one type of search that isn't making Google any money at all. This one search makes up 25% of all searches.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Directions. People are googling, how long will it Take me to get from Paris to Chicago because I left my kid home alone.

[Nick Martell]

KEVIN well, Google doesn't have a map and that's the fundamental problem here.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So when someone searches show me the way from San Jose to Santa Barbara, Google search results give them links to MapQuest or Yahoo Maps.

[Nick Martell]

I forgot about that one. Now this is big bad for Google because in their eyes, it turns you from a user into a loser. Once someone clicks that link away from Google's search engine, they are taking their valuable eyeballs away from Google over to a competitor. And on the Internet, where the eyeballs go, the ad revenue flows.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So Larry Page welcomes Jens and Lars to the Googleplex. Larry has been wanting to make his own map to keep that 25% of direction seeking users in in the Google ecosystem, because 25% of his users, that's a gigantic proportion.

[Nick Martell]

And the pitch, it doesn't disappoint. Jens whips open his laptop and shows off their software's smooth panning thanks to those tiles. And then Lars shows Larry something that really grabs his attention. Lars types in the word theaters and then a bunch of dots appear on the map. Lars then clicks on one of those dots and boom, up pops a list of movie Showtimes. There's Shrek 2, the Incredibles, Garfield the Movie. Hell of a triple feature.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

To Larry, this is the answer he's been looking for. If Google had a map just like this, people looking for directions wouldn't click away to a competitor. They could stay in the Google ecosystem. Plus to top it off, they could charge businesses to get featured placement on the map.

[Nick Martell]

But one thing Larry thinks for this to work, the map can't be a separate program that people download. It needs needs to be a webpage so that people can click straight through from Google search results.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So just as Jens and Lars think they've got the deal in the bag, Larry asks them a question they haven't prepared for. Can you make this run in a web browser? Jens musters all his Danish matter of factness and replies, yeah, no problem.

[Nick Martell]

Jack, I gotta ask, is this actually no problem?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Actually Nick, he has no idea whether this is even possible.

[Nick Martell]

Oh boy. But honestly, that's not important right now. What is important is that Jens and Lars have the deal of a lifetime right before their eyes. If they can make Expedition work on a web browser, Google will buy their startup. However, if they can't, they're both going to be fighting over who has top bunk when they move back in with their mom.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

After three weeks of all nighters and cranking code, Jens and Lars and their small team finally have a version of Expedition that works on the web. Time to give Google a call. And Jack, what is Larry Page's reaction?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Elation. Yes, this is exactly what Google needs. And the moment could not be better.

[Nick Martell]

Because Google happens to be in the middle of a year. Huge media frenzy. Since their last meeting, Google has raised $2 billion by going public in August 2004. Silicon Valley. It's recovered from the crash. So just two months after the IPO, Google buys Expedition. Jens and Lars, they hit their payday, baby.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They can finally pay off their credit cards, which they maxed out during those 18 months of development. To this day, Google has never said how much it paid for Expedition, this little prototype of a digital map. But we've seen estimates that it was just under $50 million. And since Google knows it needs their brains just as much as they need their software, Jens and Lars get jobs and salaries at Google too, as part of a new team called Google Maps.

[Nick Martell]

But there is no time to celebrate Yetis because Larry and his Google co founder, Sergey Brin, they want to move fast, insanely fast.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Every day they're thinking about the 25% of users they're losing. The one out of four Google searchers who have to click away to other websites when all they want is simple directions.

[Nick Martell]

So Sergey and Larry set an ambitious deadline. Google Maps needs to launch publicly by February 2005. That's just four months after the acquisition. Four months to go from mapping one square mile of Berkeley to mapping the whole of North America.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Okay, so there's a couple of problems here with that deadline.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, I'm stressed just talking about this right now, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The first is actually an easy problem to solve. And that's the cost. Because Google is flush with cash, they have no problem shelling out $100,000 for map data from one of those companies for California. Even the millions it needs to map out the rest of the United States. And Canada.

[Nick Martell]

Okay, but Jack, the second problem is the prototype that Jens and Lars managed to build. This thing is just a proof of concept. It is slow and it crashes a lot. So when tech companies have a product problem just like this, they know who to call.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They need a product manager.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, they need a PM baby. The Liam Neeson of the tech industry.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So Google brings in a guy named Brett Taylor. Brett has a baritone voice as deep as his confidence. He is firing off ideas for this new map like he's a young James Cook. Oh, and one more thing. Brett is just 24 years old, barely.

[Nick Martell]

Has six bullets on his resume. Now this is actually pretty typical over at Google. Giving huge amounts of responsibility to relatively inexperienced people just out of college and then fueling them with free catered lunches. You get tossed in the deep end. We're talking big projects, big responsibility, sink or swim. And our guy Brett, the new product manager for Google Maps, is a swimmer.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He single handedly rewrites the Google maps code in one weekend. He makes it 10 times faster with much more streamlined code. This Brett Taylor guy went into the zone, he probably had a huge headset on, was pounding Red Bulls, taking breaks, only to use the bathroom.

[Nick Martell]

Honestly, what this guy pulls off is so impressive, but it is nothing compared to what he goes on to do after Google Maps. Brett Taylor eventually becomes Chief Technology officer of Facebook and he's the last Twitter board chairman before it gets sold to Elon Musk. And he's the co CEO of Salesforce and he's the chairman of the board at OpenAI right now.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's basically the egot of tech.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

As for Jens and Lars, they stay with Google Maps for a while as the digital landmass expands, but eventually both move on. Lars leaves Google in 2010 to join Facebook, while Jens later joins Apple.

[Nick Martell]

But Jack, let's get back to the Google Maps launch. Thanks to PM Brett, they make their February 2005 deadline just in time.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And when Google Maps launches to the public, it is the greatest step forward in cartography since the Compass Rose Legendary. First, Google Maps is an expandable map. You can scroll and zoom effortlessly across entire cities and beyond.

[Nick Martell]

Second, Jack, it's a navigator. You enter an address and you get directions in seconds.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You're never getting lost again.

[Nick Martell]

And finally, and this is where the real money is made. You can engage with businesses, click on that movie theater, tap on that landmark, or finally find that one particular coffee shop just outside of Copenhagen without having to cross reference multiple websites or dig through clunky search results and this all.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Happens in the web browser, just like Google wanted. No need for clunky software or extra downloads. MapQuest, Yahoo Maps, and all the others. They immediately start looking and feeling like 15th century Spanish treasure maps, but without the charm of Captain Jack Sparrow.

[Nick Martell]

So, Jack, how do people actually react to this? And like, how revolutionary is this new thing?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I think one cultural data point captures the public's response.

[Nick Martell]

Nick. Okay, what do you think?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Within just a year of its launch, Google Maps gets a shout out in an SNL sketch. Lazy Sunday. Yo, where's the movie play at? The west side.

[Nick Martell]

Well, let's hit up Yahoo Map to find that dopest route. I prefer Mac Quest.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's a good one.

[Nick Martell]

Google Maps is the best.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, there's no better entrepreneurial validation than a name check in an Andy Samberg song.

[Nick Martell]

I mean, Jack, I think getting referenced in an SNL skit is the definition of product market fit, is it not?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's better than getting a Ben and Jerry's ice cream flavor named after you. But as powerful as the Google Maps launch is, what really pushes it into the stratosphere is a feature that Google adds a few months after launching. It's a feature that gives people a dizzying new way of looking at their world.

[Nick Martell]

We're sitting in a cubicle in an office supply company, let's call it Munder Diflin. A customer service rep named Kelly is looking up the address of a supplier. So she opens up her browser, clicks over to the Google Maps, and spots a new icon. Satellite view. What? What is that? So she clicks on it, the map flickers, and then. Oh, my God. The map is replaced by a photo of the whole area from above. Kelly leans in, she starts scrolling, and she starts zooming, and boom, there it is. That's her neighborhood. Wait one sec. That's her street. That's her house. That's her yard. That's her tree. No way. Within minutes, everyone in the office is gathered around Kelly's screen.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Try the Grand Canyon. Wait, can you see Area 51?

[Nick Martell]

Soon, everyone has Google Maps pulled up on their computer. This is the most focused the entire office has been in living memory. Productivity dead for the day. The unanswered orders for printer, paper and legal pads. They're gonna just have to wait because Mundra Difflin is lost in Google Maps new satellite view.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's just two months after Google Maps launched, and it's already got an upgrade. And it's a big one. Satellite view. But the tech that makes it possible wasn't built by Jens Lars or the team. In fact, it comes from another recent Google acquisition, a company called Keyhole.

[Nick Martell]

Keyhole. It becomes the secret ingredient to Google Maps virality. But if we tell you any more, we'll have to kill you, because Keyhole was actually funded by the CIA. Yeah, that CIA keyhole. They actually specialize in 3D flyover maps that let you zoom over landscapes like you're piloting a drone, leveraging satellite imagery from NASA with images refreshing every 30 minutes. Keyhole software was mostly being used by real estate firms to show off properties, but they were actually an early investment from the CIA's venture capital arm.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's right. CIA VC, our nation's spy agency has been running a venture firm since the early 2000s called in Q Tel.

[Nick Martell]

The CIA venture capital arm has dropped $1.2 billion into 750 startups so far.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And this VC firm has a win percentage that gives even Sequoia FOMO.

[Nick Martell]

But again, keep it on the hush hush. Well, once Google integrates the Keyhole tech with Google Maps, they buy up all the satellite imagery they can get their hands on. This is massive amounts of data that until now has been locked away behind paywalls and inside a high priced corporate databases.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And now anyone can zoom out into space and then dive down and see their own house, their street, their town, their yard. It feels like you're operating your very own CIA spy satellite. It does. Yeah. And don't forget Nick, for millions of people, this was the first time they'd ever seen their corner of the world from above.

[Nick Martell]

So they're coming to Google now for the novelty of Google Maps. But then they stay when they see just how useful Google Maps can be in their everyday lives.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This is what happens when a product delivers a feature so compelling that it pulls people literally. Before satellite view, Google Maps was a solo tool. You used it to find directions on your own. But Satellite View made Google Maps go viral because it gave people a reason to gather in groups and stare at a map.

[Nick Martell]

That Keyhole Tech also powered Google Earth, which launched a few months later. But there is one heavy, heavy catch. Keeping all this mapping data updated is costing Google millions.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They're stitching together different sources and trying to keep up with a world that never stops changing. New roads get built, the bodega around the corner closes down. Relying on third party data just isn't sustainable.

[Nick Martell]

Even though it's what put Google Maps on the map. Google needs a way to map the world on its own terms. And its solution, it's not just going to Save Google money. It'll give Google Maps another feature as mind blowing as satellite view from outer space. But from the totally opposite perspective, the view from the street. Deep into the Mojave Desert, a motley lineup of all terrain vehicles, Rally cars and family SUVs rev up their engines at a starting line. They look like rigs from Mad Max built for battle, ready to take on 132 miles of brutal sun scorched terrain. But there is one thing that each of these cars happens to be missing.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

A driver.

[Nick Martell]

That's because this is the 2005 Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA Grand Challenge. It's actually a Pentagon sponsored competition where the world's brightest engineers push the limits of self driving technology. Up for grabs today. Two million bucks as the prize for the first self driving car winner.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Each vehicle is packed with sensors, cameras and AI powered navigation systems to help them dodge the rocks and navigate the ditches and somehow stay the course the of without any help from a human. The car looks like a Fiat designed by Frankenstein.

[Nick Martell]

Well, the starting flag drops and they're off. But instead of racing off into the distance, these vehicles slowly inch forward.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, the tech is exciting, but this isn't racing Formula One style. It's 2005. Self driving cars are in their very infancy. So these babies are literally crawling as their LiDAR radar and camera systems scan the route ahead for obstacles.

[Nick Martell]

And after a six hour and 53 minute wait. Jack, we got a winner. A blue Volkswagen named Stanley, created by a team straight out of Stanford University.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

On the sidelines, there's a familiar face. It's Larry Page. He's trying to get inside the minds of the people building the future of autonomous navigation. After the celebrations die down, he gets talking with the leader of the Stanford team, a German robotics expert named Sebastian Thrun. Sebastian's broad grin, bald head and love of loud shirts definitely make him stand out. But what really pulls Larry in is Sebastian's early conviction that autonomous driving is the future.

[Nick Martell]

Sebastian pulls Larry aside and says, hey, I'm starting a company to build a massive database of streets to train autonomous drivers. And to do this, Sebastian happens to have an Absolutely. I'm trying to think how to put this. Jack, stupid, crazy idea. Sebastian wants to send cars across America to map every single mile of road. Each equipped with special 360 degree cameras capturing pictures of everything as they drive. The cars will also have GPS trackers to accurately record the routes, allowing each picture's location to be precisely pinpointed. They'll also eventually have laser scanners so that they can build 3D models of the car's surroundings.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Larry immediately thinks how Sebastian's image database could be extremely valuable to Google Maps. In fact, if Google had enough of these special cars, taking enough pictures and data, it wouldn't need to buy so much third party map data. In fact, Google could go from a buyer of map data to a seller.

[Nick Martell]

So Larry does what Larry does. He makes Sebastian an offer. Google will buy Sebastian's photo taking Drive the world company and make Sebastian the head of a new secret project division called Google X. His first project, Street View. Its aim, to record and photograph every single street on planet Earth.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's more than 13 million miles of asphalt. And we're not even counting dirt roads. At a constant 60 miles per hour, with no fuel, sleep or bathroom breaks, it would take you 25 years to record those 13 million miles of road.

[Nick Martell]

Sounds like an SAT question. But street View does eventually happen. And soon it expands to parks, to pedestrian routes, and even to the inside of buildings like museums. Like Satellite View, it becomes a fun feature that draws more people into Google Maps. But there also is another upside here. All of those photos we just mentioned and all the other data captured by the cars, it means that Google now has its very own up to date map data.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And since they had 200 cars to do it, it didn't take 25 years. And they also uploaded Street View gradually, not all at once when it was.

[Nick Martell]

Completed, but project launches. They're like Bravo shows. You always gotta prepare for a little bit of drama.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Someone's gonna flip a table. And when it comes to Street View, not everyone's happy about it. Some argue that because something is visible from the street doesn't mean it should be searchable online.

[Nick Martell]

Okay, so then Google's gotta deal with that. So they roll out automatic blurring for faces and license plates. And they even allow homeowners to request their houses be blurred.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Barbra Streisand. You can breathe a sigh of relief.

[Nick Martell]

But while Google is busy mapping every lane, driveway and cul de sac in the world, another revolution is brewing. One that will create Google Maps biggest rival.

[C]

As a contractor for the nsa, Edward Snowden had access to a range of top secret government programs. But as he learned more about these clandestine operations, he came to understand a devastating secret. The government was conducting mass surveillance on its own citizens. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of wondry show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, whistleblower Edward Snowden changes the national conversation about privacy on the Internet as he risks his own freedom and his family's well being. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to all episodes ad free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wonder. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcast, podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today.

[Nick Martell]

When the iPhone launches in 2007, it's Google Maps. That's one of the biggest selling points. Apple doesn't have its own map product yet, so they strike a deal with their rival Google. And Steve Jobs actually uses Google Maps to wow the audience at the iPhone unveiling.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I remember that Steve Jobs prank called a Starbucks that he found using Google Maps in front of everyone.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, it was kind of a beautiful moment. You had Apple and Google just hugging it out.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And within 18 months, iPhones account for more Google Maps usage than all other phones and computers combined. The ability to access Google Maps when you're out and about on a phone is the true magic of this Maps technology. But there's another upgrade to Google Maps that was made possible by having all these new iPhone users.

[Nick Martell]

Before Google Maps, live traffic reports came from helicopters and radio stations. But tuning into your local AM station to catch the traffic between songs just wasn't super efficient.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Google Maps changed all that with crowdsourced traffic data. Every phone was a data point that lets Google Maps track congestion in real time and then overlay it on the map and even alter your route if it sees that there's a traffic jam ahead.

[Nick Martell]

So add all this up and this seems like a huge win win for Apple and for Google. But Google is about to mess with Apple's compass and turn this whole partnership from friendly to frenemy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Here's the tech.

[Nick Martell]

When Google announces Android, its own mobile operating system for a rival to the iPhone, Steve Jobs calls it grand theft. And he declares thermonuclear war against Google.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Those are actual quotes.

[Nick Martell]

You do not want to mess with Steve Jobs.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And then in 2009, Google escalates things even further with a huge new feature, Turn by turn navigation. This means you didn't have to memorize routes or check your phone at red lights. Now your phone would speak to you, guiding you with real time voice directions. And crucially, it never corrected you if you made a wrong turn. It just updated the route, recalculating more on that feature in a minute.

[Nick Martell]

Okay, but Jack, that's where Apple lost it, right?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, because Google makes turn by Turn navigation available only on Android. Oh, boy, they gate this awesome new feature.

[Nick Martell]

IPhone users, you still gotta memorize the directions.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It made the iPhone in some ways inferior to Android phones.

[Nick Martell]

Steve Jobs, not a fan of looking inferior.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So that was a breaking point for Steve Jobs. And that's when he orders Apple Maps into development. He was determined to cut out Google entirely. He never again wants to be dependent on someone else's software.

[Nick Martell]

No, he does not. Now, sadly, Steve passes away in 2011. And when Apple Maps actually launches in 2012, oh, this was a disaster. Do you remember this? Misplaced towns, misplaced landmarks. Like, I think at one point they wrote Interstate 280 instead of Interstate.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, Apple fixes the issues pretty quickly, but to this day, Google Maps is still on top. Now, neither Google nor Apple give exact user numbers, but the best estimate we could find is that Google Maps has 2 billion monthly users.

[Nick Martell]

On the other hand, Apple Maps has somewhere between 200 and 600 million users. Oh, and remember how Google wanted a map to support its search engine? Well, the map actually became just as important as search. For many local businesses, coming out on top in Google Maps searches is essential to their profitability. And so they are willing to pay Google for the placement on the map.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And by 2018, business listings on Google Maps were more than an address and a phone number. They were more like mini websites with reviews, photos, opening hours, and even a button to book a table or to order food. That Danish pastry fueled vision that Jens Rasmussen had back in and 20,002, 2003, it actually came true.

[Nick Martell]

And it's not just brick and mortar stores, because Google Maps ends up powering a huge part of the entire app economy, from Uber to Doordash to Tinder. Anytime you need to find something, it's probably using Google Maps technology.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

No Google Maps, no Tinder weddings.

[Nick Martell]

All right, Magellan. So we've gone from Copenhagen with Danish brothers to Google's IPO to the Mojave Desert to driving across every road on the planet. Jack, we are almost at the finish, baby.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This has been a journey, man.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, it's been a journey with no bathroom breaks.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jack, could you please pull over this.

[Nick Martell]

Podcast for a moment though, and tell us what's your takeaway from the Google Maps story?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

If you build a platform, others may do the work for you. Google Maps became way more than just directions. It became an essential discovery platform, matching customers with businesses. Nick, couple summers when I was in high school, I had to intern for my dad, and he wanted to make sure that he would show up if someone Googled lawyer in Vermont, obviously he made me set up his business account on Google Maps. That checks out. But Nick, it wasn't just my dad. Thousands of businesses quickly realized how critical Google Maps was, so they set up their own listings on the platform. Because if you don't appear on Google Maps, then you may as well not exist for thousands of customers.

[Nick Martell]

So this basically incentivize businesses to keep their information on Google Maps up to date. Combined with the customer reviews, it made for like a rich new type of content that kept people coming back to Google Maps even if they weren't getting directions to go anywhere.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And you saw how expensive it can be to update the data on your map, they had to pay those external providers. Well, if you have a platform, people will update the map for you.

[Nick Martell]

Yes.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

What's your takeaway, Nick?

[Nick Martell]

Jack, my takeaway is simple. Don't correct the customer. Look, one of the most surprising innovations in Google Maps wasn't that technical. It was actually behavioral. Early turn by turn navigation systems. Remember, they would insist that you turn around or backtrack if you missed a turn. Well, the researchers at Google Maps realized people hate being told they're wrong. So instead of forcing users to follow a rigid route, Google Maps recalculated on the fly, seamlessly adjusting to whatever direction you want it to go in.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

By removing the frustration of a must do it our way approach, Google Maps made navigation smarter and more likable. So remember, whenever possible, don't correct the customer. Redirect them instead. All right, it's time for my absolute favorite part of the show. The best facts yet.

[Nick Martell]

The best facts yet. The hero stats, facts and surprises we discovered in our research. But we just couldn't fit into the story. Jack, let him rip. What do you got for Google Maps?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Google Maps once accidentally deleted an entire country. They caused a war. In the year 2010, Google Maps accidentally erased Costa Rica's border, causing a military conflict between Nicaragua and Costa Rica. Nicaragua invaded a section of land, citing Google Maps as proof that it was theirs. Google's war room got to work and they had to fix the border as soon as possible, but they had to do it manually.

[Nick Martell]

Now, Jack, remember when I was you telling telling you about how rural folk are better at the directions than us urban folk over here?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I remember that.

[Nick Martell]

Well, if you rely on Google Maps too much, that could create a cranial problem.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Really?

[Nick Martell]

Research has shown that reliance on GPS directions like Google Maps could reduce the functioning of your hippocampus, the part of your brain that is critical for forming memories and learning.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I do feel very accomplished every time I actually read the signs on the highway instead of just using my Google Maps. And sometimes I'm like, I'm trying to.

[Nick Martell]

Prove it to myself that, like, I can still do this. In the meantime, Jack's the one who could actually tell us where the oak tree is next to the small hill across from that sunrise pond.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You've arrived at your destination.

[Nick Martell]

Well, we did make it to the end of the episode, Jack. And you know what? I feel smarter for doing so.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And that, my friends, is why Google Maps is the Best Idea Yet.

[Nick Martell]

Coming.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Up on the next episode of the Best Idea Yet. Quite possibly the most refreshing episode we've.

[Nick Martell]

Ever done because we're popping open a can of lacroix sparkling water Pample Mousse, please. If you've got a product you're obsessed with but wish you knew its backstory, drop us a comment right here and we'll look into it for you.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Oh, and don't forget to rate and review the podcast. That's how we grow the show. Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery App, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of the Best Idea yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey. The best idea yet is a production of Wondery hosted by me, Nick Martel.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And me, Jack Crevici Kramer. Our senior producers are Matt Beagle and Chris Gautier.

[Nick Martell]

Peter Arcuni is our additional senior producer.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Our senior Managing producer is Nick Ryan and Taylor Sniffin is our managing producer.

[Nick Martell]

Our associate producer and researcher is H. Conley.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This episode was written and produced by Adam Skuse.

[Nick Martell]

We use many sources in our research, including acquired podcast episode on Google Maps, Act AI Ventures, Fireside chat with Lars Rasmussen and Never Lost Again by Bill.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Kilda Sound design and mixing by Kelly.

[Nick Martell]

Cramell, fact checking by Erica Janik Music.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Supervision by Scott Velazquez and Jolina Garcia for frees on Sync.

[Nick Martell]

Our theme song is Got that Feeling Again by Blackilac. Executive producers for Nick and Jack Studios.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Are me, Nick Martel and me, Jack Revici Kramer.

[Nick Martell]

Executive producers for Wondery are Dave Easton, Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Aaron o' Flaherty and Marshall Louie.

[C]

Lamont. Jones world is shattered when his cousin dies in custody just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. From Wondery comes death County, Pennsylvania A chilling true story of corruption and coverups that begins as one man's search for answers, but soon reveals a disturbing Lamont's cousin's death is just one of many, and powerful forces are working to keep the truth buried. With never before heard interviews and shocking revelations, Death County, Pennsylvania pulls back the curtain on one of America's darkest institutional secrets. This isn't just another true crime story. It's happening right now. Follow Death County Pa on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Death County PA early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus.