🚙 Jeep: The Car That Saved The World | 4

Summary

The Best Idea Yet: Jeep - The Car That Saved The World | Episode 4

Introduction

In this gripping episode of The Best Idea Yet by Wondery, hosts Nick Martel and Jack Crivici-Kramer delve into the remarkable history of the Jeep—a vehicle that not only played a pivotal role in World War II but also transformed into an iconic symbol of American resilience and adventure. From its inception under immense pressure to its enduring legacy in both military and civilian life, the story of the Jeep is a testament to ingenuity, collaboration, and strategic branding.

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1. The Call to Arms: Birth of the Jeep

Timestamp: 05:12

The episode opens on May 28, 1940, in Detroit, within the austere offices of William "Big Bill" Knudsen, the chairman of General Motors (GM). Amidst the looming threat of World War II, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt urgently needs to ramp up American production of military equipment. In a moment reminiscent of a high-stakes hackathon, FDR reaches out not to a government official but directly to the head of GM, recognizing that automakers like GM and Ford have the manufacturing prowess crucial for war efforts.

Knudsen is tasked with leading the Office of Production Management (OPM), a role that propels him into orchestrating an ambitious plan to transform American industry. One of the most critical projects on his agenda is developing an all-purpose light vehicle for the U.S. Army—a vehicle that must traverse diverse terrains, carry heavy loads, be light enough for air transport, and versatile enough for various military purposes.

Quote:

Jack: "We're talking about the Jeep. The iconic all-wheel-drive, all-terrain vehicle."

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2. Innovation Under Pressure: Karl Probst and the Jeep Design

Timestamp: 11:34

Amidst fierce competition from 135 American automakers, Karl K. Probst emerges as a pivotal figure. A middle-aged engineer with a history of innovative designs, Probst is approached by American Bantam, a smaller automaker on the brink of bankruptcy, desperate to win the Army contract. Initially hesitant due to the company's precarious financial state, Probst is later persuaded by Big Bill Knudsen's patriotic appeal to join Bantam's effort.

Working tirelessly in a deserted drafting room, Probst and his team face the immense pressure of a tight deadline—designing a viable vehicle in just five days. Their relentless creativity culminates in the creation of the "Blitz Buggy," Bantam's design for what would become the Jeep. Despite initial setbacks, including exceeding the weight specifications, Bantam's comprehensive design impresses the Army Quartermaster Corps, securing the contract over more prominent competitors like Ford and Willys.

Quote:

Big Bill Knudsen (as portrayed by Nick): "This is important to the country. Forget your office. If you bring this off, and I know you can, we'll see that you get some money."

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3. The Jeep's Role in World War II

Timestamp: 24:03

Once production begins, Willys Overland emerges as the primary manufacturer, producing over 350,000 Jeeps during the war. Ford and Willys also develop their versions—the Ford GP and the Willys Quad—enhancing the vehicle's design with features like four-wheel drive, which became a defining characteristic of the Jeep.

The Jeep proves indispensable on the battlefield, notably during the D-Day invasion on June 6, 1944. With 50,000 Jeeps deployed, they facilitated the rapid mobilization of troops, the transportation of supplies, and the execution of complex maneuvers across the challenging terrains of Normandy. Generals like Dwight D. Eisenhower hailed the Jeep as "America's greatest contribution to modern warfare," emphasizing its role in the Allies' victory.

Quote:

Nick Martel: "The Army Chief of Staff even calls the Jeep America's greatest contribution to modern warfare."

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4. From Battlefield to Backyards: Transition to Civilian Life

Timestamp: 32:09

Post-war America saw a surge in consumer demand, spurred by the GI Bill and an economic boom. Jeep capitalized on this momentum by transitioning from a military vehicle to a civilian one. The first civilian Jeep, the Jeep CJ2A, retained its ruggedness while incorporating features tailored for everyday use, such as larger headlights and customizable attachments for various civilian needs like lawn mowing and snow plowing.

Willys Overland, now the primary Jeep manufacturer, capitalized on the Jeep’s heroic image, branding it as the epitome of American resilience and versatility. This emotional branding fostered a deep brand affinity, making the Jeep not just a vehicle but a symbol of pride and adventure.

Quote:

Nick Martel: "Willys isn't just selling Jeeps. Willys is selling the emotion that comes with the Jeep."

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5. Cultural Impact and Enduring Legacy

Timestamp: 35:04

The Jeep's influence extended beyond military and automotive spheres into popular culture. Its appearances in iconic films like Saving Private Ryan and The Goonies, along with its presence in music and media, cemented its status as a cultural icon. Jeep clubs, meetups, and online forums further strengthened the community around the brand, fostering a sense of belonging among enthusiasts.

Despite ownership changes—from Willys to Kaiser Motors, then to American Motors, Chrysler, Fiat, and now Stellantis—the Jeep has maintained its core identity. Its design has remained largely unchanged, preserving its rugged and iconic look that continues to appeal to new generations.

Quote:

Jack: "From World War II to Missy Elliot, Jeep really is the best idea yet."

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6. Conclusion and Takeaways

Timestamp: 38:03

The story of the Jeep exemplifies how constraints can drive creativity. Faced with seemingly impossible specifications, the collaborative efforts of engineers like Karl Probst and companies like Bantam, Willys, and Ford resulted in a vehicle that not only met military needs but also resonated deeply with the American public.

Host Takeaways:

• Nick Martel: "Constraints breed creativity. The psychology of limitation shows that what might seem like restrictions can actually foster innovation."
• Jack Crivici-Kramer: "The formula for a great brand is emotion plus tension. Jeep embodies both through its war heroism and versatile civilian use."

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7. Fun Facts

Timestamp: 39:40

• Big Bill Knudsen's Honor: William "Big Bill" Knudsen was the first and only American civilian to be named a lieutenant general in the U.S. Army for his contributions to the Allied victory in World War II.

• Jeep's Unique Honor: The Jeep named "Old Faithful" is the only vehicle ever to receive a Purple Heart for its service during the Battle of Guadalcanal.

• Cinematic Appearances: Jeeps have featured prominently in numerous films, including Jurassic Park and Clueless, showcasing their versatility and iconic design.

• Musical Influence: The Jeep has influenced the music industry, with references in 90s Jeep mixes and tributes from artists like LL Cool J, Cam'ron, Masta Ace, and Missy Elliott.

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8. Final Thoughts

The Jeep's journey from a wartime necessity to a beloved civilian vehicle underscores the profound impact that strategic innovation and emotional branding can have on a product's legacy. It's a story of collaboration, resilience, and the enduring human spirit—truly the best idea yet.

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Stay Tuned

In the next episode of The Best Idea Yet, Nick and Jack explore the spicy origins of Sriracha, uncovering the fiery story behind the beloved hot sauce that has found a permanent place in kitchens worldwide. Don't miss it!

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Credits

This episode of The Best Idea Yet was written by Katie Clark Gray and Anna Rubinova, with research by Samuel Thatsinger, and produced by Matt Beagle and Chris Gauthier at Nick and Jack Studios. Special thanks to Arthur Herman’s Freedom's Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II for invaluable insights. Sound design and mixing by C.J. Dremeller. Fact-checking by Molly Artwick.

Transcript

[Nick Martel]

Wondery subscribers can listen to the best idea yet, early and ad free right now.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Nick, you remember doing group projects in school, Jack?

[Nick Martel]

Do I remember doing group projects in school? No better way to rely on someone else for doing a whole bunch of work over there. Like, we did this one chemistry project on, like, electrolytes, and so I whipped up a whole board with like, Powerade and Gatorade, which. Which were, like, kind of related to electrolytes.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

What'd you get for the grade?

[Nick Martel]

I got a C. But that's besides the point, Jack, because as a piece of art, that group project was stunning.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The earliest one I remember was in physics in high school.

[Nick Martel]

I like this.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We had to prove that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It's only trans.

[Nick Martel]

I think Newton had to deal with that same group project. Jack, what grade did you get on that physics group project?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I'll tell you at the end of the show, Yetis.

[Nick Martel]

Jack and I didn't understand it at the time, but now we get why teachers absolutely torture kids with group projects.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Because someday those kids are gonna be faced with a hard problem they've got to solve fast, fast. And they're gonna have to solve it with people they don't know or get along with.

[Nick Martel]

Hey, Jack, I think that's the plot of Lord of the Rings.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's also the plot of the Parent Trap.

[Nick Martel]

And it's the plot of the Fast and the furiouses, all 48 of them.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We've got a name for this.

[Nick Martel]

Actually, we do.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's called emergency teamwork. And the constraints it places on teams can actually lead to triumphant innovation.

[Nick Martel]

Great point.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Like the subject of today's episode, a product created by not two, but three different companies who are actually competitors of one another. And all while under incredible pressure of both resources and time.

[Nick Martel]

Plus a freelance inventor who designed it in less time than it takes to rewatch suits.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

These folks were responding to a call from the U.S. government in the lead up to World War II. Wow. And what they created would help the Allies win the war and then transform the American landscape for decades to come.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, those are some stakes, Jack. And besties. We're not talking about camo, and we don't mean the Manhattan Project.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We're talking about the Jeep. The Jeep. If you want a second car and a vehicle for work around the house and one for hunting and fishing trips. Mr. You want a universal Jeep. Jeep, the iconic all wheel drive all terrain vehicle. It's part car, part truck, part dune. Buggy. Also, it's as much cult as it is car.

[Nick Martel]

It's absolutely a cult, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jeep owners tend to be proud. Jeep owners, they got community events, they got meetups, they got off roading club. Nick. There's enough Jeep enthusiast websites to break a chassis.

[Nick Martel]

Jack. You see what I'm doing now? I'm doing the Jeep wave. Have you seen the Jeep wave?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jack?

[Nick Martel]

If one of our listeners is listening to this pod while driving the Jeep right now, they have to legally pull over and do the Jeep wave back to me right now.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jeep became one of the allied forces most powerful assets during World War II. And as a commercial vehicle, Jeep is one of those brands that feels like it's always punching above its weight class.

[Nick Martel]

It does.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It claims less than 3% of the global market share for passenger cars. But the passion around Jeep can be seen in a different set of numbers.

[Nick Martel]

Get this. Jeep has been ranked the number one most patriotic brand in America for over 20 years running.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's out of every brand. It beats Levi's, Coca Cola, Disney, even American Express.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, and those guys, American Express. They've got American in their name.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Plus, they've become the essential summer transport of beach towns and Tommy Bahama beach chairs across America.

[Nick Martel]

Yetis. This is the story of how Jeep went from the battlefield to the backyard. From 1940s newsreels to millennial music videos.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And how a crisis can bring out the best of us if we work together.

[Nick Martel]

Jump in, Yetis. We're going exploring because the Jeep is the best idea yet.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This episode is sponsored by Abbott. Let's talk about a small thing that can make a big difference if you have diabetes. The Freestyle Libre 3 sensor. It's amazing how the sensor gives you real time glucose readings so you can see the impact of every meal and every activity to make better choices. The Freestyle Libre 3 sensor can help you live life with diabetes on your terms. You can try it free at FreestyleLibre US offer available for people who qualify. Visit MyFreestyle US to see all terms and conditions. Certain exclusions apply for prescription only safety info found @freestylelibre us.

[Nick Martel]

From Wonder and T Boy. I'm Nick Martel.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And I'm Jack Crevici Kramer.

[Nick Martel]

And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Takers who brought them to life. I got that feeling again Something familiar but no.

[Nick Martel]

We got it coming to you.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I got that feeling again they changed the game in one move. Here's how they.

[Nick Martel]

Okay.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Okay, besties it's May 28, 1940. We're in Detroit in the spartan offices of the president of General Motors. He's a straight backed Danish immigrant age 61 named William Signius Knudsen. But he's 6 foot 3 and a former boxer, so everyone calls him Big Bill.

[Nick Martel]

I mean, Jack. I'm picturing Liam Neeson with like a Viking hammer and a horned helmet.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You're actually not far off.

[Nick Martel]

Okay, good, good, good.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Big Bill's just going about his day, maybe checking his calendar, doing head of GM things, when his phone rings. The voice on the other end is eerily familiar. Bill has heard this voice in dozens of radio addresses and fireside chats. It's President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and he wants to see Big Bill in Washington. America is probably headed to war. Hitler has already invaded France and England's brand new prime minister, Winston Churchill is begging the United States for help. But FDR can't just wave his hand and mail Winnie Church some tanks. Because production of weapons for war in America was basically dismantled after the end of World War I.

[Nick Martel]

As you're set in the scene here, if the United States is going to step in again, a can do attitude isn't going to be enough. We're going to need a serious plan to ramp up production of weapons and supplies on the verge of a second world war.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And this is why President Roosevelt has come to Bill Knudsen, head of General Motors and not a cabinet member or something. Remember In World War I, it was private automakers like GM and Ford who did the manufacturing of the Army's war materials. Everything from submarine chasers to cannons. So now that World War II is on the horizon, FDR names Bill chairman of the Office of Production Management, or opm, and then the head of wartime production.

[Nick Martel]

A lot of official sounding titles that basically mean guys in charge of making war stuff, right? Yeah.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And Knudsen hits the ground running.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He drafts a plan to get the country. And that plan, it runs right through Detroit. Soon, Packard Motors is making aircraft engines and Chrysler is making tanks. Ford converts their Michigan factory from F series to fighter jets, from Model A's to machine gun mounts. And one of the top items on the agenda, Nick.

[Nick Martel]

Ah, they need this car.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

See, one of the first agenda items on Big Bill's list is picking up a project the US army has been struggling with for years. Is not a bomb or any kind of weapon. It's a car. I'm sorry. Pause the pod for a sec.

[Nick Martel]

Jack, I'm gonna have to stop you right there. The army has been struggling with something as fundamental as basic as a car.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

A car is putting it too simply.

[Nick Martel]

Okay.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They've been trying to develop an all purpose light vehicle with specs that seem basically impossible. This thing needs to be able to drive on all types of terrain. That includes beaches, you know, the place where invasions by sea start from. It also needs to be strong enough to transport over 600 pounds of soldiers and gear, including a machine gun, but light enough to airdrop from an airplane. It needs to work for scouting and recon, refueling and re upping of ammo and communicating via radio. Oh, plus blackout lights to make it harder to spot at night. Extremely high standards. This is like Kate Hudson, how to Lose a guy in 10 days life.

[Nick Martel]

This is very Kate. I mean, they're basically trying to mash up a motorcycle, a horse and a tank in a way that would make Bruce Wayne weeping. But the research and development on this atv, it hasn't been going great, has it, Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They've been auditioning everything from modified tractors to open top sedans to something they call the belly flopper. It's like a small sled with big wheels and a machine gun mounted in the front. But you can only drive it by laying face down on your belly.

[Nick Martel]

So, Jack, I'm adding all this up and none of it adds up to a Batmobile.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And by July 1940, time's basically up. Allied intelligence gets word that the Nazis are working on their own general purpose vehicle with Volkswagen.

[Nick Martel]

Now, yetis, we talk about arms races in business all the time. Like the AI arms race, or the processor chip arms race, or the Spike Seltzer arms race. But this, this is a literal arms race between us and the Axis powers to develop a do anything go everywhere military supercar.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So the US army puts out the call to every American automaker. We're taking proposals. Build us a Batmobile, motorcycle, horse thing. You got 11 days.

[Nick Martel]

They've got 11 days to pull this off, Nick.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hitler is about to conquer England. So yeah, do the project and do it quickly. 11 days to pitch the design and 49 more to deliver a working prototype.

[Nick Martel]

It's like a hackathon with machine guns. And I'm kind of getting stressed out hearing about it, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And crazy. Timeline or no, automakers are highly incentivized to give this a try. The U.S. army is about as big a client as it comes.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah, it's huge.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This is going to be a gigantic contract for hundreds of thousands of units.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, and Jack, not to mention the brand exposure of making a vehicle that takes down Hitler.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So the call goes out from an office of the army called the Army QuarterMaster Corp. To 135 US automakers and now besties.

[Nick Martel]

We should sprinkle on more context here. 135 automakers, forget the big three. This was the big 135.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This was pre auto industry consolidation. So it wasn't just for GM and Chrysler back then. You also had American Bantam out of Butler, Pennsylvania.

[Nick Martel]

Jack. You had Checker Motors out of Kalamazoo. You had Willys Overland out of Toledo. It goes on and on and on. There were so many car brands back then.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

All of these companies have a chance to land what could be the biggest contract of their lives. So they start scrambling to put their best engineers on the job.

[Nick Martel]

Jack, sounds like we're now getting a different kind of arms race, the race for top talent. Because when it comes to hiring, sometimes you're in a buyer's market, but sometimes you are in a seller's market. But you are never in more of a seller's market for talent than on the cutting edge of a growing industry.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Right. If your company is working on something brand new that only like five engineers in the world know how to do, then guess what? Those engineers can work anywhere they want. Because those engineers will make or break your company.

[Nick Martel]

All right. Without Steve Wozniak, Apple would still mean fruit.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, enter the Woz of World War II. The guy who finally helps crack the code on the first Jeep. A middle aged ex prodigy from West Virginia named Karl k. Probst. In 1940, when every automaker in America is trying to build a supercar, Carl is a freelance engineer with his own consultancy firm in Detroit. But he started out as a certified wunderkind. At age 13, he built his own steam powered bicycle.

[Nick Martel]

Hey, smart kid.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That literally blew up in his face.

[Nick Martel]

I mean, hey, Jack, what teenager hasn't built and then blown up a bike? We've all been there.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But that's not Carl's only source of Cred. At age 29, he designed one of America's first cycle cars.

[Nick Martel]

And Jack, I'm looking at this cycle car right now. Never seen it before. It's kind of like a Fred Flintstone was merged with a Rolls Royce. That's the vibe I'm getting.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It looks a lot like a normal car, but I guess you used your.

[Nick Martel]

Legs to move it, which actually sounds like a new workout craze, But I guess it never really took off.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He called it the dodo, which is unfortunately fitting since it never gets off the ground. And soon goes extinct.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah, Pro tip yetis. Don't name your product after an extinct animal. It just doesn't work out.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Usually only one prototype of the dodo ever gets made.

[Nick Martel]

Hey, at least it didn't explode, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But this invention does help Carl make a name for himself as an engineer. He gets a rep for being the engineer you want on your team. So of course, when the Army's request for proposals goes out, he gets a phone call. One company that desperately wants him is American Bantam. They'd already produced a bunch of ATV prototypes for the army, so they're really hoping to win this bid. But there's more than just one contract on the line. Bantam happens to be on the verge of bankruptcy. They're down to just 19 employees. So if they don't win this bid, they're toast.

[Nick Martel]

The whole company depends on this bid.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And to win this bid, they need Carl. Carl Bantam's president lays out all the details to Carl over the phone. Yes, we need a design in 11 days. No, there's no money up front. And did I mention our company may go under?

[Nick Martel]

Ah, that's a tough sell.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, Nick, if you were a sought after engineer and you heard that pitch, how would you respond?

[Nick Martel]

I'd say, can I at least get like a doordash gift card?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So obviously Carl says no. All right. But a couple days later, he gets another call from a much bigger guy. Literally. Nick, you remember Big Bill Knudsen? Yes, the GM president that FDR tapped to lead the war production office.

[Nick Martel]

Of course, the Danish American Liam Neeson. How could I forget him, Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, he knows of Carl from his days at gm and he knows if anyone can build this crazy GI Joe vehicle, it's this guy. So he calls up Carl personally to try to get him on board. Nick, want to read this quote from Big Bill here?

[Nick Martel]

Jack, it's going to be a tough accent. I'll give it a shot though. Here we go. This is important to the country. Forget your office. If you bring this off, and I know you can, we'll see that you get some money.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Some money? That's it?

[Nick Martel]

Yeah. Hopefully get something.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, it must have been the patriotism that motivated him, because Carl says yes.

[Nick Martel]

He's in, baby.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And now the real work begins. The engineer, Karl Probst sits in a deserted drafting room at American Bantam HQ in Butler, Pennsylvania. The room echoes. Every little sound bounces off the empty chairs and sloped drafting desks. Carl takes a pile of rejected designs, grabs some thumbtacks and pins them to the wall. Something must be salvageable in all this.

[Nick Martel]

Now, the problem with taking your time to accept the biggest challenge of your career, uh, the clock. It doesn't stop in the meantime. So Carl, he did have 11 days to come up with a viable design for a lightweight general purpose vehicle. But that was almost a week ago. He now has five days to design this thing and deliver the plans Monday morning to the Army Quartermaster Corp. 300 miles away. But Jack, like we've said about those group projects, it's actually a fundamental law of innovation, isn't it? Man constraints breed creativity. The more limiting the scenario, the more creative the result.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, Carl isn't totally on his own. He's joined by a team including Bantam's own chief engineer. But even so, there's a ton of pressure to get this right.

[Nick Martel]

Gotta get it right.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They get to work. From Wednesday till Friday, Carl drafts nonstop. Imagine crumpled blueprints piling up in the waste baskets till they overflow. Mechanical pencils loaded and reloaded. Graphite sparkling on the smudged drafting tables. No time for food. Just cup after cup of black coffee to keep the engineers upright. One by one, anyone not named Karl Probst goes home. Until it's Carl alone, working late into the night and then into the dawn. Then on Friday afternoon, Carl puts down his pencil. He stands up and stretches and then goes to the movies.

[Nick Martel]

Nice little Friday.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

There on his desk are the design specs for something called the Jeep.

[Nick Martel]

The Blitz Bug. Ah, the Blitz Bug. I guess that works too, Jack. I mean, are you kidding, though?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Forget five days.

[Nick Martel]

This guy just got it done in 18 hours. He designed a completely new car concept in less time than it takes a banana to ripen.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yep, but remember, they don't have the gig yet, Nick.

[Nick Martel]

Good point.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So on Saturday, Carl hops in a car with Bantam's president and they race 300 miles southeast to the Quartermaster's corpse office in Baltimore to pitch. Baby pitch.

[Nick Martel]

Now that is a long drive in the United States. Before interstates were a thing, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, but when they finally arrive, they make a terrible discovery.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, boy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Someone points out that their vehicle design is 500 pounds heavier than the army specs.

[Nick Martel]

This thing is overweight and the weight.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Will affect their ability to fly these things inside of an aircraft.

[Nick Martel]

Or for your average grunt to push it out of the mud. Can't be that heavy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But there's no time to fix it. Monday morning, 9am sharp, they show up at the army office. And standing nearby are reps from three other car companies. Ford, Willys, Overland and a Cincinnati company called Crosley Motors.

[Nick Martel]

So wait, Jack, out of 135 car companies in the United States at that moment, there are only four companies total in this competition.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, that's how hard this assignment was.

[Nick Martel]

Wow.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Most automakers decided there's no chance, so they never even applied.

[Nick Martel]

Makes sense.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So four contenders all waiting for the verdict. Everyone shoots some side eye at the competition and they just sit there and wait as 30 long minutes go by.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, that is awkward, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Then someone from the Quartermaster Corp emerges. They've reached a decision. Carl Design blew the others out of the water.

[Nick Martel]

Boom. But wait, Jack, what about that thing where they blew past the weight limit?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Turns out nobody made that weight limit. And Carl's application was the most complete. Willys Overland had the audacity to turn in a sketch. One sketch. And Ford, they didn't submit a design at all.

[Nick Martel]

I mean, Jack, as you're describing it, it reminds me of something we've said before about job applications like, yep, forget the requirements, just apply.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Don't take yourself out of the running just because there's one bullet point in the qualifications that you don't meet. You have no idea which requirements are secretly just a nice to have and not a must have.

[Nick Martel]

And that's basically the situation here, isn't it, Jeff?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah. If Karl Probst let the weight limit snafu keep them from submitting their design, who knows how the Allies would have done in Europe without it.

[Nick Martel]

Despite missing that one piece of criteria, the weight, Carl's supercar design was way ahead of the competition in every other way. And that's how it got selected.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But don't break out the champagne for Bantam just yet, okay? They've designed a kick ass all purpose vehicle. Now they have to build it. Bantam starts furiously working on their prototype. They drive their completed blitz buggy into an army camp for testing literally 30 minutes before the deadline. It's Carl's design come to life. Bantam has done it. Here's a picture, take a look.

[Nick Martel]

I mean, Jack, I'm looking at the photo of this thing and this looks like it's related to a jeep. Like it's got that distinctive grill, it's got the right angles. Yeah, it's very Jeep ish.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So the army agrees it's ready. They order 70 blitz buggies from Bantam. But plot twist, they order prototypes from Willys and Ford too.

[Nick Martel]

I'm sorry, pause the pod again, Jack. Bantam won the bid. So like, how are their competitors Willys and Ford still even in this thing.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It comes down to some new rules around procurement or how the government engages with private companies. The army now has the permission to work with more than one company at a time, so they don't put all their eggs in one company's basket.

[Nick Martel]

So, Jack, it's kind of like what we saw during COVID if you think about it like when the US Government supported six different pharmaceutical companies in vaccine research under Operation Warp Speed.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's just like that. The army wants to deploy these jeeps like we deployed those Covid jabs. So get this, Yetis, they actually make Bantam hand over their blueprints to the competition.

[Nick Martel]

That hurts, Jack. I mean, it's like making Snapchat hand over their algorithm to Mark Zuckerberg. You know what Zuck's going to do with that thing, don't you, man? Yeah, Zuck's going to Zuck it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The way the government sees it, they're all fighting the same cause. And since Uncle Sam paid for this jeep design, they can share it with whomever they like. Plus, remember, Karl Probst made these blueprints for Bantam when they were on the brink of going under.

[Nick Martel]

Good point.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

How does the government know Bantam will be able to scale up enough for the war effort? The US army isn't going to put all its eggs in a basket that only has 19 employees.

[Nick Martel]

Meanwhile, Yetis, remember, it's 1940 Willys, which you may not know today, but at the time was a huge automaker.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So as Bantam cranks out their first 70 blitz buggies, Willys Overland is building their own version. And like any good rival, they add their own little twists, they upgrade the engine, and they add a feature that will be defining for the Jeep.

[Nick Martel]

I assume it's the chassis.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, they call their version the Quad.

[Nick Martel]

Okay.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Because it's a 4x4.

[Nick Martel]

Jack, are we talking about the first ever all wheel drive vehicle right now?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That'd be convenient for this story, but no. Okay, the very first 4x4 was in 1824, but that one was powered by steel.

[Nick Martel]

Steam. Ah, steam. It gets us every time.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So let's say this is the first four by four of the modern era.

[Nick Martel]

We'll round up on this one. So Yeti's Bantam, they got the Blitz Buggy. Great name. Willys has the Quad. But what's Ford's move?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jeff, Ford unveils their version just 10 days after Willys, and they call it the Model GP for general purpose.

[Nick Martel]

Model GP. Jack, I'm playing around with this in.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

My head and it Almost sounds like model jeep, right?

[Nick Martel]

It sounds kind of like model G, man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Keep, keep that thought in your back pocket.

[Nick Martel]

I got it, baby.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Three automakers making three slightly different versions has the potential to get kind of messy. It does. So our old friend Big Bill Knudsen steps into broker.

[Nick Martel]

I mean our Liam Neeson Viking. He's everywhere, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He's the head of wartime production. What's he gonna do, play golf?

[Nick Martel]

Dick. Yeah, good point.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So Bill works out a compromise between these three automakers. They'll each keep refining their own version of Probst designs. This will let the army figure out which details they like best. And then they'll decide on one unified design, one jeep to rule them all.

[Nick Martel]

Alright, now I'm really seeing the similarities between this jeep story and the COVID vaccine. Jack. Yeah, it's basically a B testing at scale.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So by early 1941, the army has commissioned 1500 vehicles each from Bantam, Willys and Ford. The US isn't officially at war yet, remember, but we do start shipping the Allied forces some of these jeeps that we're making.

[Nick Martel]

Nice.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The Brits and the French get some to fight the Germans. The Australians and the Chinese get some to fight over in the Pacific until December 7, 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We interrupt this broadcast and bring you this important bulletin from the United Press.

[Nick Martel]

Destiny will detect Pearl harbor by air. President Roosevelt has just announced.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

No more waiting. The United States enters the fight. And America brings with it the vehicle that's about to become a major thorn in Germany's side. So it's 1942. The United States is now at war. So let's take stock of our World War II Batmobile.

[Nick Martel]

I love that thing.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The standard jeep weighs just over 2,000. For context, that's just about as heavy as two grand pianos. Or half as heavy as a mid sized SUV.

[Nick Martel]

And not to mention way lighter than a 30 ton Sherman tank that was all over the battlefield. Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Exactly. The jeep can also carry way more than expected. A payload of up to five soldiers or 800 pounds of cargo. They haul ammunition, artillery, medical supplies, rations and even small aircraft across all kinds of terrain. The jeep is built to be modular too, so with special add ons it can become an ambulance, a fire truck or a makeshift train. Ford even starts making a version called the Seep. That's an amphibious version that can go by land, or you guessed it, by sea.

[Nick Martel]

Now it ended up having some design flaws, but the amphibious jeep sounds like the kind of thing that would make the transformers jealous.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Soldiers Use jeeps to lay telephone wires. They serve as radio patrol cars. You can ship them in by plane or. I still can't believe this. You can drop them by freaking parachute. And remember, the US Is sending jeeps to all the Allies, the British, the French, the Polish, the Russians, you name it. Enlisted men across all those nations. Militaries trusted the jeep.

[Nick Martel]

Nice.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Generals loved the jeep. Ironically, one of the generals happiest to receive his jeep is one Joseph Stalin of the Soviet Union.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, and that's not even the wildest part, because apparently the enemy loves the Jeep too. Get this. When German soldiers would find jeeps on the battlefield, they would confiscate the jeeps and drive them more often than they would destroy them. Basically, this jeep is the vehicle for any soldier at war.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And then on June 6, 1944, we get D Day. America and its allies are determined to retake continental Europe from Hitler. So they staged the biggest amphibious invasion in military history.

[Nick Martel]

And Jack, I gotta imagine the jeep plays a critical role.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Oh, yeah. 156,000 allied troops stormed the beaches of Normandy, taking with them 100,000 tons of equipment and 50,000 vehicles, most of them Jeeps. Over the course of the week, some 300 troops land on that beach. And here's why those numbers matter so much. A massive invasion onto foreign soil can go really badly if you don't have a way to get off the beach asap. But the jeeps at Normandy let the invading troops mobilize quickly, get to higher ground, and then go on the offense. D Day becomes the turning point of World War II. And everyone from army generals to Supreme Allied Commander Dwight D. Eisenhower say it's thanks in big part to the Jeep. The Army Chief of Staff even calls the Jeep America's greatest contribution to modern warfare.

[Nick Martel]

Speaking of calling the Jeep, Jack, when do we actually start calling this thing, you know, the Jeep?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You're gonna love this story, Nick.

[Nick Martel]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Okay, one of the most fun facts about the Jeep is that the name is a bit of a mystery.

[Nick Martel]

Hey, Jack, is this like a Scooby Doo type mystery, or is this like a True Detective type mystery? Do I have to call McConaughey in for this one, man?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

More like a Merriam Webster mystery. For etymology nerds out there, I'm here for it, Jack. So we know the Jeep started as three different models.

[Nick Martel]

Yes.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Bantam's is the Blitz Buggy, Willys is the Quad, and Ford's is the gp. So one theory is that the Jeep is simply a slurring of the GP for general purpose.

[Nick Martel]

Gp, as you say it, it kind.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Of works out, except that GP was Ford's internal technical name for the car.

[Nick Martel]

Okay.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It doesn't appear anywhere on the body, so most GIs knew it by its other culturally dicier name. Yeah, the Ford Pygmy.

[Nick Martel]

Okay, well, that's not it. So, Jack, what's theory number two?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Weirdly, the word Jeep already existed before the car. It's slang from World War I, meaning new recruit.

[Nick Martel]

Interesting. So, basically, the 1910s version of noob was the word Jeep.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah. So it's possible soldiers see this new untested thingamajig and lovingly call it a.

[Nick Martel]

G. Well, Jack, honestly, I kind of love this theory, too.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But there's one more, even more adorable theory. You ready for it, Nick?

[Nick Martel]

Oh, I'm so ready for this. Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You've heard of the comic strip Popeye the Sailor, right? It came in a thing called newspapers.

[Nick Martel]

Jack, Popeye is the reason I eat spinach six times a day.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, Nick, back in 1936, the Popeye comic strip introduced a strange and mysterious animal that Popeye keeps as a pet.

[Nick Martel]

Interesting.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This is a yellow animal with a big red nose and white potbelly, like a mashup of a teddy bear. And Hobbs the tiger. And this thing can get in and out of small spaces to help Popeye out of a jam.

[Nick Martel]

Jack, I'm looking at this thing, and I'm kind of scared by it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Yeah, he's got interdimensional powers, too. And his name is Eugene the Jeep.

[Nick Martel]

Eugene waits for me. You got no magical powers.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But I got this.

[Nick Martel]

So, Jack, what you're saying is that Popeye is a super popular comic with the soldiers those days. And maybe, just maybe, they name their vehicle that gets them out of tight spots after Eugene the Popeye character.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I'm not saying it. You just said it. But that is my favorite theory.

[Nick Martel]

Let's roll with that one. I love that one.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

However, the name comes to be it gets cemented into the American lexicon during a publicity stunt. A Willys test driver steers the 4x4 up the steps of the US Capitol.

[Nick Martel]

Boom.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And when a reporter asks what it's called, the driver calls it a Jeep. Or maybe the driver said GP or possibly even peep, which is what you do from recon vehicles.

[Nick Martel]

I like it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But whatever that driver said. The article describing the Army's new scout car in the paper the next morning it published the word as one Jeep.

[Nick Martel]

Slogan says, Legends aren't born, they're made.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

By September 5, 1945, it's official. The Allies have won. The troops are coming home. And for manufacturers, this means they can make products again for customers other than the U.S. military.

[Nick Martel]

Get this. For three and a half years during World War II, zero, count them, zero.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Civilization.

[Nick Martel]

Civilian cars were manufactured in the United States because all the car companies were busy making aircraft carriers and tanks and other things we needed for the war.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But now that the war is over, manufacturers are allowed to make consumer goods again. And the US post war economy kicks off with a vengeance. Unemployment is under 2%. The GI Bill puts money into the pockets of thousands of servicemen. For the first time in years, people have money to spend. And one thing they'd very much like to buy Jeeps.

[Nick Martel]

But remember, the Jeep was a joint collaboration between three competing automakers. So the big question becomes this, who has the right to sell the Jeep?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Okay, so altogether, American, Bantam, Willys Overland and Ford produced an estimated 660,000 jeeps during the war. What we didn't tell you is it wasn't an even split.

[Nick Martel]

No, it wasn't.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

More than half of those wartime Jeeps were made by willys overland, around 350,000. Ford was number two with around 280,000. But Bantam, the company that hired Karl Propst and invented the Jeep blueprint, they ended up making less than 3,000 Jeeps or less than half a percent of the total jack.

[Nick Martel]

That's like being the inventor of the slam dunk. Bob Kurland, if you're curious only to watch Michael Jordan absolutely crush it with a dunk from the free throw line.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Phantom comes up. Bob Curlin in this scenario. They invented the thing, but the army liked Willie's version of the Jeep best.

[Nick Martel]

Well, that was the one with the four wheel drive jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And once the war is over, they get to work making Jeeps for the general public. Their first version is called the Jeep CJ2A for civilian Jeep. It gets a few upgrades that hadn't been available to Army Grunts like a tailgate and bigger headlights. Instead of adding bazookas or armored plating, Jeep owners can add seats, snow plows, welders, lawnmower attachments, or even generators. And definitely couples.

[Nick Martel]

I have not seen the lawnmower Jeep yet, but I feel like I need to now see the lawnmower Jeep immediately.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I know Willy's civilian Jeep sells for $1,090 or just under $19,000 in today's dollars. They moved more than 200,000 units between 1945 and 1949.

[Nick Martel]

So we know what you're wondering. Besties, why does this Jeep sell so well? Well, because it's the car that the allies used to win the war. And that, that is brand affinity.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You can't buy that is pride sitting in your driveway.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah, because Willys isn't just selling Jeeps. Willys is selling the emotion that comes with the Jeep.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The emotion built on the tension and uncertainty of war. It's the feeling of seeing a bunch of Marines lift the American flag at iwo Jima.

[Nick Martel]

Actually, McKinsey Group, the consulting firm, they've called this kind of visceral experience a peak moment. The part of a person's decision journey that they remember the most. And peak moments, they really drive consumer behavior. But Jack, we should point out, it's not just marketing and vibes that are making Jeeps so attractive to customers at that moment, is it?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

There are practical aspects too, like the whole four wheel drive thing. As the United States starts building its interstate highway system in the 1950s for the first time, people had access to more and more remote places across the country.

[Nick Martel]

The 1950s might have been all about drag racing, but for Jeep owners it was all about off roading, which you start to see in the Jeep branding besties.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We've actually covered some Jeep taglines over the years in our pod.

[Nick Martel]

I mean, Jack, are whipping up right here Jeep, the toughest four letter word on wheels.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's from the 1970s. Or how about this one from the 80s Jeep. There's only one, Jack.

[Nick Martel]

Great one right there. But how about this one? Go anywhere, do anything.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Jeep. Now that's a slogan.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, plus there are those bumper stickers that say, like if you can read this, roll me over.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And it's printed upside down.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah, it's gotta be upside down.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

People start creating Jeep clubs, Jeep meetups, and years later when the Internet comes around, Jeep online forums.

[Nick Martel]

Honestly, it's a shocker to us. There isn't a Jeep dating app. Oh wait, there probably is a Jeep dating app.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

There probably is. It's probably called Peeps. And so the Jeep continues to cultivate its adventurous, all American image. And as we said at the top, it starts a 20 year run as the US's most patriotic brand. This despite the fact that the Jeep brand itself will change hands a bunch of times over the years.

[Nick Martel]

Oh, and Willys, they don't even hang on to it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Nope. Willys gets bought out by Kaiser Motors and later passes to American Motors. And then Jeep ended up eventually with Chrysler, which was eventually bought by Fiat, which renamed itself to Stallion, which isn't.

[Nick Martel]

Even based in America. Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, is a European company.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But while we're on the subject of who really owns the Jeep, we do have to address one thing. What about Karl Propst, Bantam's hired engineer who did the blueprints in 18 hours? You may remember that one of the only things Bill Knudsen promised him was that he would get paid. Well, Carl was paid but just $200. In today's money, that's $4,300.

[Nick Martel]

All right? For helping win World War II, he got 4,300 bucks. This feels underpriced.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, Carl never sought glory. He calls it the high point of his career. But at 79 years old, when he was dying of cancer, he decided to set the record straight. On the very last day of his life, he spreads his original Jeep drafts across his bed. When his body is discovered, so are his blueprints.

[Nick Martel]

Wow. Now that is an intense way to share a legacy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And thanks to him, we have a lot of in depth knowledge about the Jeep from the design level onward. We couldn't have told this story today without him.

[Nick Martel]

No, we couldn't.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And who knows, Nick? Maybe the Allies couldn't have won the war without him. So, Nick, now that we've learned about the Jeep's dramatic birth under fire, its heroics on the beaches of Normandy, I like it. And its successful transformation to domestic.

[Nick Martel]

Where we going, Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

What is your takeaway?

[Nick Martel]

All right, here's my takeaway. Constraints breed creativity. Because if the army had gone to the automakers with like a blank check and a blank page and said, hey, we just need a car, then we probably would have never gotten the Jeep at all.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I mean, the army tried that, right, in the years before Carl, and the best thing we got was that belly flopper.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah, the belly flopper was a flop, Jack. But when the army handed carmakers an almost impossible set of specifications, then that hackathon really paid off. We call this the psychology of limitation. The Constraints, they make us more creative. But, Jack, what's your takeaway from the story of Jeep?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The formula for a great brand is emotion plus tension.

[Nick Martel]

Emotion plus tension.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

For Jeep, the emotion was easy.

[Nick Martel]

Yeah.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's about the feeling of victory, pride, and grit. It's the patriotism that this American invention helped defeat one of the biggest threats in modern history.

[Nick Martel]

All right, so that's the emotion, the feeling. But, Jack, what's the tension? The contrast in the brand, the tension.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Is that this car was built for war, but it's used today in your domestic life, which is very un.

[Nick Martel]

Battle like that is attention.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Do you need a vehicle that can storm the beaches of Normandy? No. No. But the tension of having a car that can.

[Nick Martel]

Yes.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Makes it exciting to own.

[Nick Martel]

That's the formula for great branding.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Emotion plus tension equals great branding.

[Nick Martel]

But, Jack, now we've come to our favorite part of the show. The best facts yet. What do we got? Let's whip them up, man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Remember Big Bill Nudson?

[Nick Martel]

Great guy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The guy you tried to impersonate with that leathery voice.

[Nick Martel]

I did my best. I was trying to do what I could do.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, for his contributions to the Allied victory In World War II, he was the first and only American civilian to be named a lieutenant general in the US Army.

[Nick Martel]

Wow. Liam Neeson could really play this guy. Let's get his age in a script, man. All right, so, Jack, here's my fact for you. The Jeep is the only vehicle ever to win a Purple Heart.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Purple Hearts usually go to soldiers, not cars.

[Nick Martel]

I thought they only went to soldiers until I read this, man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The name of the Jeep that got the Purple Heart was Old Faithful. Yeah. And after sustaining holes in their windshield during the Battle of Guadalcanal, the soldiers who drove it successfully lobbied the army to give that car a Purple Heart. Old Faithful we salute.

[Nick Martel]

But yet is the Jeep today. It's basically a Hollywood movie star. Now, it hasn't gotten any plastic surgery. The Jeep has basically kept its same iconic look. But that may be why the Jeep has starred in so many iconic films. It's been in everything from Saving Private Ryan to the Goonies.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Remember in the Jurassic park movie when Laura Dern turns that guy's head to look at the brontosaurus?

[Nick Martel]

I do remember it, Dr. Grant. As long as you don't get out of the car, Newman with that one dinosaur with the floppy ears pops out, you're gonna be safe in that Jeep.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And how about in Clueless, when Cher accidentally drives on the freeway and she has to pull over? They're so freaked out as if she's driving a snow white Jeep that her dad bought her.

[Nick Martel]

Oh yeah, we should cut her some slack by the way, Jack. She was, you know, grappling with her feelings about Josh. But Jack, we should also point out that Jeep had an impact on the music industry.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Remember those 90s Jeep mixes with the.

[Nick Martel]

Boosted bass, LL Cool J, Cam'ron Masta Ace, Missy Elliot? Yeah, they all paid homage to their favorite 4x4.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

From World War II to Missy Elliot, Jeep really is the best idea yet.

[Nick Martel]

But Jack, before we go, I gotta ask you, what was the grade that you got in that group project?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I'm gonna round up and say an A, Nick.

[Nick Martel]

I'm gonna round Coming up on the next episode of the Best Idea Yet. It's a spicy one. What do we got? Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We are covering Sriracha and we got some pizza bites that we need to squirt that on.

[Nick Martel]

You got it in your fridge but you had no idea where it actually came from.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of the Best Idea yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martel]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey. The best idea yet is a production of Wondery hosted by me, Nick Martel.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And me, Jack Crevici.

[Nick Martel]

Kramer, our senior producer is Matt Beagle and Chris Gauthier. Matt Wise is our producer.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Our senior managing producer is Nick Ride and Taylor Sniffin is our managing producer.

[Nick Martel]

Our associate producer is H. Conley. This episode was written by Katie Clark Gray and Anna Rubinova.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Research by Samuel Thatsinger.

[Nick Martel]

We use many sources in our research, including Arthur Herman's book Freedom's Forge How American Business Produced Victory in World War II.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Sound design and mixing by C.J. dremeller.

[Nick Martel]

Fact checking by Molly Artwick. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez and Jolina Garcia from Freeze on Sync.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Our theme song is Got that Feeling Again by Blacklac.

[Nick Martel]

Executive producers for Nick and Jack Studios.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Are me, Nick Martel and me, Jack Ravici Kramer.

[Nick Martel]

Executive producers are Dave Easton, Jenny Lack, flower Beckman, Aaron O'Flaherty and Marshall Louie For Wandering.