🍑 Juicy Couture Tracksuit: How Cozy-Core Went Viral | 30

Summary

Juicy Couture Tracksuit: How Cozy-Core Went Viral

Introduction

In this episode of The Best Idea Yet, hosts Nick Martell and Jack Crivici-Kramer delve into the fascinating journey of the Juicy Couture tracksuit, a defining symbol of early 2000s fashion. They explore how this seemingly simple attire transitioned from a niche maternity wear solution to a global fashion phenomenon, shaping the modern athleisure market worth over $300 billion today.

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Founders and the Birth of an Idea (00:53 - 02:20)

Pam Skye Sleevy and Gila Nash Taylor, two friends from Los Angeles with minimal startup capital—just $200—embarked on their entrepreneurial journey without formal business training. Their initial foray into the fashion industry began with maternity wear, addressing a glaring gap in the market for stylish, comfortable clothing for expectant mothers.

Jack Crivici Kramer (02:03): “This is the story of two LA friends with zero MBAs and just $200 in startup capital.”

Their first product, Travis Jeans, offered a fashionable alternative to the outdated maternity clothes of the late 1980s. By repurposing vintage denim and adding stretchy lycra bands, they created jeans that allowed women to maintain their personal style during pregnancy.

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Scaling the Business and Rebranding (08:27 - 13:07)

Pam and Gila's meticulous approach paid off when they secured a deal with Diane Merrick’s upscale boutique, introducing Travis Jeans to celebrities like Melanie Griffith. This success led them to expand their offerings and rebrand as Juicy Couture, a name that juxtaposed luxury with playful accessibility.

Nick Martell (16:10): “Juicy becomes Juicy Couture. Little do they know yetis. But that word will soon be spelled out in glitter on the butts of millions of people around the world.”

Their strategic decision to focus on T-shirts, specifically the "103" model, marked their transition from maternity wear to casual luxury. By hiring sales reps like Lisa Schaller, they penetrated major retail outlets such as Bloomingdale’s and gained visibility through placements on popular TV shows like Friends.

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The Viral Breakthrough (22:17 - 30:25)

The pivotal moment for Juicy Couture came when Jennifer Lopez chose to wear their tracksuit in her 2001 music video “I'm Real.” This endorsement catapulted the brand into mainstream popularity, establishing the Juicy Brigade—celebrities like Britney Spears, Kim Kardashian, and Paris Hilton—as key figures in their marketing strategy.

Nick Martell (30:05): “This is the first Truly viral moment for the Juicy tracksuit. This is the inflection point. This is the publicity you can't buy.”

The combination of strategic PR, celebrity endorsements, and the cultural shift towards casual luxury ensured that Juicy Couture tracksuits became a must-have item, with monthly production soaring to over 300,000 units by early 2003.

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Challenges and Acquisition (35:36 - 39:34)

Rapid scaling led to quality control issues, including inconsistencies in product colors and defects in the tracksuits. To manage the overwhelming demand, Pam and Gila accepted an acquisition offer from Liz Claiborne Inc. for $56 million in 2003. This move provided the necessary infrastructure to support their expanding operations but also introduced corporate pressures that ultimately strained the brand.

By 2008, amid the global financial crisis, Juicy Couture's sales declined by over 20%, and the brand struggled to maintain its exclusivity. In 2013, Liz Claiborne sold Juicy Couture to Authentic Brands Group for under $200 million, marking a significant downturn from its peak.

Jack Crivici Kramer (39:40): “But Juicy is definitely not dead. Because all fashion is cyclical and hot trends that are cool get hot again.”

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Legacy and Insights (40:27 - 43:57)

Despite its decline, Juicy Couture left an indelible mark on the fashion industry. It pioneered the athleisure trend, blending comfort with style, and demonstrated the power of celebrity endorsements in building a brand. The founders, Pam and Gila, leveraged their first venture’s lessons to achieve unprecedented success with Juicy Couture, illustrating the value of second-time founders who apply their experiences to new challenges.

Jack Crivici Kramer (41:02): “Second time founders are powerful. They have a higher success rate on startups than first time founders do. Even if their first go around failed.”

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• Nick Martell (07:49): “When you're with Amex Business Platinum, you have the card that helps businesses dream bigger.”

• Jack Crivici Kramer (16:10): “There is no greater hack in entrepreneurship than being a second time founder.”

• Nick Martell (31:11): “She was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook.”

• Jack Crivici Kramer (43:31): “Other custom embroidered tracksuits include Drew Barrymore's Mrs. Green hoodie for her marriage to actor Tom green and Jennifer Aniston's Mrs. Pit hoodie, which we all know what happens happened there as well.”

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Conclusion

The Juicy Couture tracksuit exemplifies how bold ideas, meticulous execution, and strategic marketing can turn a modest startup into a global fashion powerhouse. Pam Skye Sleevy and Gila Nash Taylor's journey underscores the importance of resilience, adaptability, and leveraging personal networks in achieving entrepreneurial success. Their story not only highlights the rise and fall of a fashion icon but also sets the stage for understanding the dynamics of virality and brand legacy in today's market.

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Key Takeaways

1. Second-Time Founders Have an Edge: Experience from previous ventures enhances problem-solving and strategic planning.
2. Celebrity Endorsements are Powerful: Authentic and targeted endorsements can significantly boost brand visibility and credibility.
3. Balancing Exclusivity and Scalability: Maintaining product quality and brand exclusivity is crucial during rapid scaling to prevent brand dilution.
4. Embracing Market Trends: Adapting to cultural shifts, such as the rise of athleisure, can sustain a brand’s relevance over time.
5. Networking is Vital: Leveraging personal connections and networks can open doors to opportunities that drive business growth.

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Best Facts Yet

• Juicy Curse: There's a rumored "Juicy curse," where prominent women who wore Juicy Couture tracksuits experienced marital issues. For instance, Madonna’s iconic tracksuit coincided with her marriage to Guy Ritchie, which ended in 2008.

• Origin of the "Juicy" Label: The word "juicy" appeared on the tracksuits' back due to Gila's son, Travis, inspiring the design after seeing a cheerleader's "Cheer on the seat" shorts.

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Looking Ahead

In the next episode of The Best Idea Yet, Nick and Jack explore the creation of Google Maps, uncovering the untold stories behind one of the most indispensable tools of the digital age.

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This episode was produced with insights from “How We Started Juicy Couture for $200 and Turned It into a Global Brand” by Pamela Skies Levy and Gila Nash Taylor, among other sources.

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Transcript

[Nick Martell]

Wondery plus subscribers can listen to the best idea yet, early and ad free right now.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Jack, talk to me. We're talking Y2K uniform. What do you got? What are you rolling to school in, man?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Okay, so early high school.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

I was taking cues from my older brother. And he was rocking the Tommy Hilfiger logo. T shirt, huge Tommy Hilfiger billboard on his chest.

[Nick Martell]

I was gonna say that's an ad. That's not a T shirt over there.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And then he had this huge puffy Abercrombie and Fitch vest on top of that. And beneath it all on the bottoms, cargo pants.

[Nick Martell]

Down in New York, a little closer to Fashion Avenue, it was J. Crew on top with three different polo shirts underneath because the more collars, the merrier. And of course, Jack, naturally, boxers exposed.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Oh, I had at least 6 inches of visible box on top if you didn't.

[Nick Martell]

Not even worth showing up to school. But yetis today we won't be talking about what we were wearing. This is a story about a fashion juggernaut for women by women.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This product paved the way for the modern athleisure market, which is now worth more than $300 billion.

[Nick Martell]

This product became the on the go uniform for models and singers, actresses and heiresses.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Not to mention Amy Poehler's cool mom in Mean Girls.

[Nick Martell]

If you know, you know. Hey, Paris, why don't you tell the people what we're talking about? Let's talk about the Juicy Couture tracksuit. Let's talk about it. The Juicy Couture tracksuit. Technically, this is not couture and it was never worn to track practice. But these candy colored monochrome sweats officially owned the early 2000s. With or without the word juicy bedazzled across the butt.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Britney Spears, Jennifer Lopez, Halle Berry, Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton. They all became members of of the Juicy brigade. They made these tracksuits go viral. From the tabloids to the balance sheet.

[Nick Martell]

Few know that this fashion wrecking ball actually has its roots in maternity wear.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This is the story of two LA friends with zero MBAs and just $200 in startup capital. But they were gifted with an eagle eye for detail and a killer entrepreneurial instinct.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, and that 200 bucks of startup capital, it eventually led to a payout of 200 million bucks.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Together, these complimentary co founders rewrote the celebr endorsement playbook. We'll share how they built Juicy Couture into a multi million dollar brand. Worthy of the most valuable real estate in fashion. You're tush.

[Nick Martell]

And we'll tell you about our favorite muscle in the body. The second Time founder muscle.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Toss in the Ja Rule soundtrack and slide on your hoop earrings because Juicy Couture's tracksuit is the best idea yet.

[Nick Martell]

From Wondery and T Boy. I'm Nick Martell.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And I'm Jack Revecci Kramer.

[Nick Martell]

And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products you're obsessed with and the bold risk.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Takers who made them go viral. I got that feeling again. Something familiar, but no, we got it coming to you. I got that feeling again. They changed the game in one move. It's how they hook up.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Nick Martell]

If you want to know whether you're in a premium shopping establishment, you don't look at the prices. You look at the bathroom. And for guests at Diane Merrick's fashion boutique on Los Angeles, famous Melrose Avenue, sweet smelling soaps and Egyptian cotton hand towels are the standard. The powder room there, it's immaculate.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This upscale clothing store is nestled on the border of Hollywood and Beverly Hills among the kind of trendy boutiques and restaurants where you need a reservation weeks in advance. Just for lunch.

[Nick Martell]

And back in 1988, Diane Merrick's customers include movie stars, pop singers and it girls of the 1980s. If you look around, you just might catch a young Jamie Lee Curtis perusing the size 2 miniskirts.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But behind the scenes, someone's got to rehang those miniskirts, replenish the soaps and fold those hand towels with military precision. These are the unsung heroes of retail, the sales associates. And we're going to drop in on two of them. Gila Nash Taylor and Pamela Skiest Levy.

[Nick Martell]

Today, Pam's rockin riding boots, cutoffs and a floppy hat that she happened to design herself.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And Gil is wearing cowboy boots and a short ruffly dress.

[Nick Martell]

Most people at the shop, they actually think that they're the same person. They never work the same shift. In fact, they've never even met until today when they're Both put on towel folding duty for that pristine bathroom.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Pam and Gila start talking, and it turns out they have a lot in common. They were both the rebel middle child in their stuffy, conservative families.

[Nick Martell]

Gila became an actor, appearing in small parts on Broadway, film, and tv. And Pam designed costumes for feature films, but then bailed to enroll in fashion school.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Pam successfully created and sold a line of hats as an independent study. Can you believe that? For once, a college course that pays.

[Nick Martell]

You and not too shabby. Gila, on the other hand, she has no experience selling anything. But she is getting fed up with acting, and she wants to break into the fashion business. But she hasn't decided on her killer product yet. That is, until she gets pregnant. And then she realizes, wow, I got nothing to wear. Just a few months after that day with the towels, Gila and her husband find out they're expecting. So Gila does what you'd expect from any fashion conscious Angeleno. She jumps in the car, hits the 405, and goes shopping for cute maternity clothes. Montage baby.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But this is the late 1980s. Yeah, cute maternity clothes are harder to find than Bigfoot. Gila looks everywhere, but it seems like everything in the maternity aisle is from 1950, back when women were encouraged to hide their pregnancies like they were state secrets.

[Nick Martell]

Every shirt is a tent, shapeless, and 3 inches longer on the front than in the back.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And forget about jeans. In every maternity section, there's nothing but stretchy leggings and stirrup pants. For the second and third trimester, the message seems to be.

[Nick Martell]

Shh.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Come on. It's only nine months. Just keep a low profile and don't bust any seams.

[Nick Martell]

From a business perspective, here's what they're thinking. Most pregnant people will only buy maternity wear a couple times in their lives, and they'll only wear those clothes for a few months. So the maternity category gets literally and figuratively tossed to the bottom of the fashion pile. It's dismissed as a niche market.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But Gila is not going to spend the next six months hiding.

[Nick Martell]

No, she isn't.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So instead, she gets crafty. She grabs a pair of her husband's vintage jeans and cuts the waistband off, replacing it with a stretchy lycra band.

[Nick Martell]

So when she steps out on a sunny SoCal afternoon in these new jeans, she's boggling the minds of the friends around her.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Wow. You're eight months pregnant. You look fantastic.

[Nick Martell]

Look like you're about to go clubbing.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

During the vulnerable months when her body is changing more than ever. These genes help Gila feel more like herself than ever, and that's powerful.

[Nick Martell]

Once her son Travis is born, Gila goes back to her classic Levi's. But here's the thing. She just can't stop thinking about those maternity genes that she hacked together. This is the entrepreneurial idea that Gila's been waiting for. But she also knows the last thing she wants to do is start a business alone. So, Jack, what about Pam? She has that business experience. Oh, and also their pals.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

She dials Pam's number. Hello, Pam. She's on board.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, yeah. Hip maternity jeans for LA moms to be. That's a huge gap in the market. And you know what? Pam and Gila are going to fill that gap.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

They each pony up some startup capital. 100 bucks each. Literally the cheapest angel round we've ever covered on this show. But these 2 start with 200 bucks. That's their seed money. So they head to a gritty industrial section of la, to a place known in the textile business as a rag house. A rag house is a used clothing wholesaler selling secondhand duds by the pound.

[Nick Martell]

Pam and Gila step into this musty rag house and they're greeted by a mountain of used denim and smelly piles. And without so much as a bottle of Purell, they just dive in. They're up to their elbows in other people's Levis. They're hunting for the full range of sizes, extra small to extra large, and they're just tossing aside any pair that's too stained, too ripped or too crusted up to use.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Nick, does this rag house not wash.

[Nick Martell]

The clothes they always tell entrepreneurs to get their hands dirty? Pam and Gila, well, they take that literally. Finally, with armfuls of selects, they head out to their next destination, which is the Laundromat.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Oh, they have to wash them themselves.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, yeah, you're going to do it.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Solo if you're keeping tabs here. Their startup Investment is now $200 and about 16 quarters for the washing machine.

[Nick Martell]

Once the jeans are spiffy clean, Pam and Gila spread them around the courtyard of Gila's apartment building and they let them dry out in the sun. And as those clothes dry, the new co founders hack off the waistbands with heavy duty scissors until their hands are completely sore.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

They hire a seamstress to attach stretchy Lycra panels at the tops of the jeans. And once they're all done, Pam and Gila take off their sunglasses and stare at their new creation. Now, this is maternity Wear. And they even create iron on labels with their brand. Written in Sharpie marker, it says Travis.

[Nick Martell]

Jeans for the baby in you. Now, Pam and Gila can't just make maternity jeans. They need a place to sell the maternity jeans. What they need is a retail and their first stop. It's actually not a maternity store at all. It's Diane Merrick, that schmancy boutique that we mentioned at the top of the show because they know that's where all those Hollywood celebrities shop. It's also where they first met while immaculately folding towels as retail associates.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

As we say, advertising's what you pay for, publicity's what you pray for. One famous person wearing these jeans would be worth more than the cost of a billboard on Wilshire Boulevard.

[Nick Martell]

So Pam and Gila say a little prayer as they present Travis jeans to the boutique's buyer. And they set the price at $89 per pair.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

That's an affordable splurge for middle class buyers, yet still worthy of Julia Roberts closet.

[Nick Martell]

That buyer is examining the denim, pulling the stretchiness, looking at the panel, and.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Then says, yeah, I have some clients that will love these.

[Nick Martell]

We're talking famous clients, specifically Melanie Griffith, who happens to be pregnant at the time with Dakota Johnson.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

She strolls around Rodeo Drive wearing these jeans. Boom. The Travis jeans lands a Glamour magazine write up.

[Nick Martell]

Glamour magazine is huge. The media coverage, impossible to buy by the way, brings Pam and Gila credibility and more importantly, it gives them confidence to approach other boutiques. Then they reinvest every dollar right back into the business. That means more dirty jeans dives, more quarters fed into that laundroma that's triple loaders.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Their approach is slow but smart. Many startups suffer from over scale. Itis you oversell but are under supplied. So you end up promising orders you just can't deliver on. That leads to delays, botched expectations and quality control issues. Any one of those issues can kill a brand.

[Nick Martell]

Now, fortunately for us, Pam and Gila don't fall for overscelitis. Instead, they walk before they run. And when they finally have their infrastructure in place, they go fishing for even bigger clients at a maternity focused trade show.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

As Pam and Gila do their best. Glengarry Glen Ross. In front of dozens of retailers, they catch the attention of a pea in the Pod, a large maternity chain founded by a woman who was also frustrated with pregnancy options they feel made for each other. A pee in the Pod doesn't just give Pam and Gila an offer. They give them one mama of a deal. An exclusive clothing line beyond jeans. We're talking denim shirts, blazers, riding pants, even catsuits.

[Nick Martell]

Hey, Jack. These women just went from sorting wet denim in Gila's patio to a huge national deal in just six months.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Ever since they first met at that Hollywood boutique, Pam and Gila have been on a collision course with this moment. This is their big break.

[Nick Martell]

Until an ugly orange gingham print accidentally kick started the whole juicy era.

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[Nick Martell]

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[Nick Martell]

Here we are in an office park in Pacoima in California's San Fernando Valley. The office is quiet. A painted fingernail flicks off the fluorescent lights. One by one, Pam Skye Sleevy and Gila Nash Taylor are closing the door on Travis Jeans forever.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

What? Wait a minute. Before the break, we were hearing about how Travis had this huge deal they just signed. What happened during the commercial break? Nick?

[Nick Martell]

Well, here's what happened. For five years, Pam and Gila happily created maternity clothes for a pee in the pod. The two companies got along like two. You know where I'm going with this. But then it came time for them to deliver designs for their 1994 collection. And that collection featured one particular pattern. Gingham.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Gingham. That's the quaint, square checked pattern on Dorothy's dress from the wizard of Oz.

[Nick Martell]

Now, Pam and Gila designed their collection using patriotic gingham in red, white, and blue. But then a pea in the pod decides to remix their plans based on market research. When the Travis Spring collection is finally released in stores, the colors have been changed to yellow, orange, and lime green.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

To Pam and Gila, this gives Country Fair corn dog. It's not given class. They think to themselves, what pregnant person would wear this? But to their utter shock, those new colors sell really well.

[Nick Martell]

It looks like the market research was right. Pam and Gila were wrong. And they take that as a sign that it's time to get out of the maternity business.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So Travis Jeans is successful for five years. And then one color scheme gets switched, and Pam and Gila decide they're Done. Yeah.

[Nick Martell]

You know, Jack, it's not just about the gingham. It's really like what the gingham represented. Pam and Gila realized that the market shifted away from their personal instincts. Once that happens, it's kind of like a baseball player getting the yips. It's just hard to recapture the magic.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's not always a founder's instinct to paraphrase Taylor and say, it's me. Hi. Maybe I'm the one who's lost touch with my core customer.

[Nick Martell]

But you know, that is exactly what Pam and Gila do. They meet their remaining obligations, but then they close up the shop faster than a spirit Halloween on November 1st.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But they're not done with the fashion business. They're just done with the maternity fashion business.

[Nick Martell]

Ding, ding. On to round two.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

There is no greater hack in entrepreneurship than being a second time founder. The first go around is like your mini mba. You make a lot of mistakes, but you learn from every one of them.

[Nick Martell]

So Pam and Gila, they're ready to take on their next idea. And they start with the fun part, the new brand name. Here's what they're whiteboarding, Jack. They're like, you know what we want something that evokes freshness, bubbliness, like a fun in the sun, California vibe. You know, like the kind of feeling that you could bite into and it would explode everywhere like a fresh orange.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

There's really just one right answer when you put it that way. Nick. Juicy.

[Nick Martell]

Little do they know yetis. But that word will soon be spelled out in glitter on the butts of millions of people around the world. So Pam and Gila, now rebranded as Juicy, are ready to take their second crack at running a business. But the name, that was the easy part. Now they actually need a product.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's a clean slate. They could choose anything. They could make evening wear, swimsuits, pantsuits.

[Nick Martell]

But instead, Pam and Gila decide to jump on an emerging trend. They focus on on the T shirt.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The T shirt, an emerging trend. Pretty sure they had T shirts before the 90s.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, they did, Jack. But let me go full Miranda Priestley for you on this. You know, it's 1994 and the baby tee is actually coming into vogue. But even with baby tees on the rise, Pam and Gila think that there's a lot of room for improvement. Everything that they see in the shops is either too square or too man shaped or it's teeny tiny, made for size 0 models. No T shirt feels like it's made just for them. It feels honestly like another gap in the market for them to take advantage of. So they set out to design the perfect T shirt.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But Pam and Gila think strategically about this. They think like engineers. They come up with a framework of four key points of quality, fit, fabric, comfort, and color. They consider every invisible pain point you might not think about until you put the T shirt on. Like, does the armhole fit right? Does it line up with my shoulder right? Will this fabric lose its shape after a wash or two? Each one is a problem to be solved.

[Nick Martell]

And then they come out with a bunch of styles, including the 103. It's got a V neck, sleeves that hug the shoulders, and soft cotton fabric as bright as three coats of nail polish.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Pam and Gila cannot wait to get their shirts into stores. This 103 is a great place to start. But they're second time founders now with deep experience. So instead of approaching buyers directly, one store at a time, they hire sales reps. One in la, one in New York.

[Nick Martell]

Let's talk about this New York sales.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Rep for a second. Her name is Lisa Schaller. Think of her as a talent agent. Only instead of repping actors or directors, she's repping Pam and Gila's T shirts. She's tough as nails with a thick New York accent.

[Nick Martell]

I love this T shirt. So Schaller focuses just on selling the 103 shirt. At first in limited colors and nice small batches. These small orders, they aren't super profitable. But here's the idea. They're low risk for the retailers to take on this unknown brand.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Soon. These shirts have infiltrated Bloomingdale's in New York and a beloved boutique called Fred Siegel in LA where actresses, models, and it girls shop. And as luck would have it, a costume designer from Friends.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, that Friends. Pretty soon, Juicy shirts are starting to pop up on the TV show Friends.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

You and I are both Seinfeld guys. Yeah, but this is a huge deal getting on Friends.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, it's huge, Jerry.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Huge. So by the end of 1995, Juicy is doing $1 million in sales. A year later, they're doing five times that, thanks in part to the Friends buffet bump.

[Nick Martell]

Juicy tees like the Travis jeans before them are priced at an affordable splurge level. We're talking T shirts at like 2130 bucks a piece, which would be about 50 bucks today.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's a treat yourself product that targets both Jennifer Aniston the actor, and Jenny the barista. Half attainable, half inspirational.

[Nick Martell]

Jack, how about we sprinkle on some mid-90s macroeconomic context as well.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This era is peak confidence in the US Both politically and economically.

[Nick Martell]

America's got some mojo.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The Berlin Wall just fell down. The Internet is hitting its puberty. US GDP is growing at an average of 4% per year.

[Nick Martell]

Consumers are so confident, they're ready for a little splurgeon. And this gives Pam and Gila an idea.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

They add a word to their brand name, a sort of in joke to capture the humor of a luxury T shirt. Juicy becomes Juicy Couture.

[Nick Martell]

Yes, it's meant to be ironic because T shirt Couture, really.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But the name doubles as marketing. Everything Juicy touches feels a bit elevated, a bit cheeky, and a bit accessible all at the same time.

[Nick Martell]

Great products have tension, and Juicy is the ultimate expression of that tension in fashion. Jack. There is nothing less couture than a T shirt. And yet Juicy stuck the word couture boom right smack on the brand name.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This will lay the groundwork for their next revolutionary product, the one that really made it famous.

[Nick Martell]

What do you think about a tracksuit? The doorbell rings. The receptionist of Lisa Schaller's Manhattan showroom buzzes up the delivery person. The place is usually immaculate, but today this place is a mess. Hangers, boxes, tissue paper, it's all just scattered everywhere.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's the year 2000 y2k, baby. And shaller is prepping for one of the biggest events in her calendar. A showcase for the so called resort market. In mere days, buyers from retailers across the world will be in her showroom looking for the newest designs for resort season pieces that will appeal to customers kicking it in Cabo during the winter holidays.

[Nick Martell]

And that is why Shaller pieces so excited to see this box hand delivered to her showroom. An exciting new sample collection from Juicy Couture.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Juicy's come a long way. In six years, they've expanded to knit tops, skirts, accessories, even jeans. But now Pam and Gila have a new product they've been working on for months. The Juicy Couture tracksuit.

[Nick Martell]

As usual, Pam and Gila have poured so much effort into the details. The fabric is lush terry cloth. This thing feels like a warm hug.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The fabric is also dyed twice in bright jewel tones, so the insides look just as vibrant as the outside. These hoodies have a zipper, front pockets, and a lined hood that falls in a soft triangle onto the wearer's back. You can tell these two used to immaculately fold towels back in the day.

[Nick Martell]

It's even got something rare in fashion, custom made hardware. That's right, a zipper Tag that is shaped like a J for Juicy, obviously, which they call a J.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Okay. But as Lisa keeps digging through the juicy product boxes, her stomach drops. Something is missing.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, boy.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Under the neatly folded hoodies, she finds an array of bottoms, some mini skirts, and these tiny booty shorts with a large elastic waistband.

[Nick Martell]

But, Jack, there's one kind of bottom that she doesn't see.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Where are the pants?

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, where the pants. Lisa speed dials Gila and just starts yelling. She's freaking out.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

What is this? I'm anywhere in that mini skirt or those short shorts, I want a goddamn pant.

[Nick Martell]

Okay, to be fair, Pam and Gila, they didn't forget to send the pants. They've actually been working on track pants for months. They've carefully crafted the bell bottom flare and its 70s throwback vibe, but the.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Waistband still isn't right. An elastic is fine for tiny shorts, but with terry cloth pants weighing it down, the wearer is in danger of pants around. Ankle syndrome. You never want to get caught in one of those.

[Nick Martell]

So Pam and Gila leave the pants out of that first shipment. We'll sell the shorts and the skirts and we'll wait to get the pants right.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But Lisa is insistent. This is a tracksuit. They're meant to be sold together as one, top and bottom. So no pants, no sales. Pam and Gila get the message and they send along their imperfect prototypes and cross their fingers.

[Nick Martell]

Jack. Not easy to do. For a couple of detail obsessed perfectionists. These pants are like barely an mvp.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

A minimum viable product.

[Nick Martell]

But honestly, it's a good thing Schaller bullied them into sending the imperfect. Because MVPs play a critical role in creating the best ideas yet.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

As long as your product's not going to kill anybody, it's often better to release the awkward version and then iterate from there.

[Nick Martell]

If you hold back too long, you're going to miss out on critical audience feedback and you may miss out on an entire moment. Well, lucky for these two, they do not miss their opportunity window. Within a few months, Pam and Gila get the waistband right using a quick cord, a wide elastic waistband with a drawstring. It's a little trick that they actually learned in their maternity fashion days.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The quick cord makes the pants comfy, but also flattering, letting the pants sit on the hips without worrying about showing top cheek.

[Nick Martell]

It is the final puzzle piece to the tracksuit's perfect silhouette, advancing it from MVP to final draft. The track pants, they're going to retail for 80 bucks. The hoodie, $75. Again, our price point here. Aspirational, but possible for the everyday customer. It's Goldilocks.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So with the tracksuit done, Juicy Couture is ready to take their marketing to the next level. And as second time founders, Pam and Gila know just what to do.

[Nick Martell]

Get ready to feel like a maitre d at Nobu, because Jack and I, we're about to drop some names. Now remember Yetis, Pam and Gila. This isn't their first rodeo. They have seen how celebrity endorsements have worked in their favor with Travis Jeans and Melanie Griffith and then with the Perfect Tea and Jennifer Aniston. So this time around, targeting celebrities is going to be their top priority. It's number one. No ads, no billboards, no commercials. During Paris Fashion Week, they're about to go full TMZ on their marketing.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So they hire a PR whiz named Janie Lopati to become their celebrity whisperer. Janie's an up and comer with a stellar reputation with the Hollywood set.

[Nick Martell]

Like Pam and Gila, Janie comes from LA's high end boutique scene. Only her specialty is something called clientele. In her last job, Janie curated a shop at home experience for celebrities by sending designer clothes straight to their doors.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So Janie's address book is full of celebrities, home addresses and more importantly, their sizes.

[Nick Martell]

So pretty soon, Juicy tracksuits are in those boxes. Janie's pioneering the freebie strategy. Basically the gift that's also an unspoken quid pro quo.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Now today, of course, celebs and influencers are constantly approached with products for free. Yeah, in fact, they're more than free. They're paid to use those products and rep the brands on social media.

[Nick Martell]

But back in 2001, the freebie strategy is new. And a personal gift with a human touch can be enough to earn celebrity acceptance. But here's the catch. This only works if the celebs actually wear the things that you're gifting them.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's kind of a litmus test. If the tracksuits are duds, then the celebs will re gift them to their staff. Meaning you've just mailed thousands of dollars worth of products to the best dressed nannies in Malibu.

[Nick Martell]

But for Pam and Gila sending the free goodies, it's worth the gamble. So they unleash Janie's address book and pretty soon, the brightest stars of the early 2000s start receiving juicy care packages. Ready for this, Jack? It's going to sound like an Oscars nom list. Gwyneth Paltrow, Charlize theron Reese Witherspoon. Janie sends packages to Jessica Alba and Halle Berry several times a month. She's basically watching the movie credits, checking a Rolodex and then just hitting up FedEx. They focus on a few A list individuals as a means to reach the masses.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But Juicy doesn't stop there. Cold calls are chilly. Warm intros are hot.

[Nick Martell]

I like what you did there, Jack.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

So the team brainstorms. Who knows who here? Who can get us a connection to this or that celebrity?

[Nick Martell]

They actually lean into Pam's husband, who happens to be a producer in L. A.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

They lean on Gila's new husband, who's a musician also connected in L. A. And then they drop $50,000 to throw a party at the Chateau Marmont, an infamous hotel on LA Sunset Strip. This day of indulgences blows through most of their marketing budget. They give away 500 pieces of clothing pretty much to anyone who has an IMDb page.

[Nick Martell]

But here's the funny thing when you add it up, Jack. That $50,000 giveaway party is arguably less effective than one single lucky music video. It's the summer of 2001 and JLo, she's planning a remix of her song I'm Real. Featuring a name that will really take you back to 01, Ja Rule. The video is going to be filmed in a single shoot day on the basketball courts of east la. The vibe, like the song, it's all about realness.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

When JLo's stylist comes to dress her for the shoot, they bring racks and racks of designer clothing worth thousands of dollars a piece.

[Nick Martell]

But JLo is pushing through the rack and like, nothing really sits right. Like, how real would she look dancing across the half court line in a pricey couture outfit?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This is Jenny from the block, after all. So she thinks back to a care package she received from an upstart brand called Juicy. Juicy sent her a pink velour hoodie with little booty shorts. Luxe but casual. This is the vibe she wants for her video.

[Nick Martell]

So JLo rejects the stylus and instead she wears her Juicy tracksuit for the video shoot.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And saying this as respectfully as possible, she makes it look good. JLO goes on to great things. By the way, Ja Rule goes on to Fyre Festival.

[Nick Martell]

Not only does this video look great, it becomes one of the biggest moments of that year's VMAs. And that song, it becomes one of Billboard's top five singles of the year.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

As far as we can tell in our research, this is the first Truly viral moment for the Juicy tracksuit. This is the inflection point. This is the publicity you can't buy.

[Nick Martell]

Perfectly put, Jack. J.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Lo's approval gives the tracksuit huge credibility, opening the door for other celebs to dive into their own juicy care packages.

[Nick Martell]

Jack, Imagine the feeling Pam and Gila must have had when they first heard about the music video. They were probably in their kitchens, weren't even thinking about it.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And then Pam texts Gila in all caps. J. Lo is wearing our tracksuit in her music video.

[Nick Martell]

Well, soon those care packages are going to pay off in a big way, thanks to five little stars.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

They're just like us.

[Desiree]

Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect for Patty. That friend was Desiree. Until one day I texted her and.

[Nick Martell]

She was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook.

[Commercial Voice]

No Facebook anymore.

[Desiree]

Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.

[Nick Martell]

I am a spiritual person, a magical person. A witch.

[Desiree]

A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Kat Torres. But who was hiding a secret from Wondery. Based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

I'm calling to check on the two.

[Nick Martell]

Missing Brazilian girls, maybe get some undercover crew there.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The family are freaking out. They are locked.

[Desiree]

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Tabloids. They've been around almost as long as the newspapers themselves. Historically, gossip has always focused on the ways stars are different. Lavish weddings and divorces, elaborate plastic surgeries, bizarro conspiracy theories.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Does Danny DeVito worship Satan? Buy our tabloid to find out.

[Nick Martell]

But in 2002, the tabloid Us Weekly upends the entire genre with a simple photo segment aimed not at how celebrities exist in some higher plane of existence.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

But how they're actual human beings, just like us.

[Nick Martell]

It's called Stars. They're Just Like Us. And it debuts on April 1, 2002, featuring Drew Barrymore picking up a coin from the sidewalk. This one picture of Drew looking relatable. It transforms the entire tabloid economy. Suddenly, every celeb focused magazine, from People to In Touch, is featuring photos of stars going to the drugstore, picking up their kids, chomping on a chalupa over at Casa Vega.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

In one sense, you might call this refreshing. There's less pressure on stars to seem perfect. Less Frank Sinatra fab, more Seth Rogen raw.

[Nick Martell]

But this also does open up a whole new minefield for famous folks. Because these celebs, especially the women, are still judged on their appearance. Even when they're supposedly off the clock paparazzi. They are perfectly happy to catch them in yesterday's sloppy sweatpants and splash that pic everywhere. So which sweatpants they catch you in really matters.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This shift in the tabloid industry is huge for Juicy, because with this new demand for dressed down stars, the Juicy tracksuit serves a very tactical function. All the work Pam and Gila poured into the details. The fit, the fabric, the comfort, the color. This is the tracksuit a celeb can throw on quickly and still look elevated. The product becomes the ideal solution to the sudden minefield of cameras waiting for them in the bushes. Juicy's high low brand is made for this moment. Low enough to be relatable, but high enough to be aspirational.

[Nick Martell]

Yes, that's the balance. Seemingly all at once, every celeb that Juicy ever sent a tracksuit to starts wearing them in public.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And these become key moments in Juicy fashion history. Britney Spears in blue velour shopping at the Sunset Plaza.

[Nick Martell]

Lindsay Lohan on the red carpet in emerald green. Juicy in flip flops.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Madonna on the streets of London in custom embroidered Juicy with her British nickname Madge spelled out in sparkling letters.

[Nick Martell]

Even in the grainy candidates, they all look sporty, they all look fabulous, and they all look pretty comfortable.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Gossip writers start calling this parade of stars the Juicy brigade. So of course, gossip readers think, hey, I want some Juicy too. Sales of this tracksuit take off in this stretch from mid-2002 to early 2003. Juicy Couture churns out more than 300,000 tracksuits every month, making up 75% of their business.

[Nick Martell]

The world is in full fledged Juicy.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Mania, and the juice is worth the squeeze. Pam and Gila's small operation can barely keep up with demand. So they call in some big dogs for help. And this will be both the best and worst thing to ever happen to their business.

[Nick Martell]

Pam and Gila are looking at each other and wondering, are they overdressed or are they underdressed? The Juicy founders are in New York, and they're about to meet a room full of corporate employees at Liz Claiborne Inc. Their audience is full of gray suits, but Pam and Gila, they're in matching corduroy miniskirts and Juicy brand tube socks.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

It's March 18, 2003, and it's official. Liz Claiborne Inc. Is acquiring juicy couture for $56 million.

[Nick Martell]

Huge deal. So let's add some background here. Liz Claiborne is a Fortune 500 apparel company founded in the 1970s by another trailblazing woman in fashion.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

That would be Liz herself. Through the 80s, it grew rapidly, hitting every mall in America, including the one near me. They acquired one company after another, representing more than a third of women's upscale Sportswear.

[Nick Martell]

Now in 2003, Liz Claiborne is in another acquisition spree with Juicy being the crown jewel. This is Pam and Gila's big moment. You see, they've been struggling to produce enough Juicy Couture tracksuits just to keep keep up with demand. Remember when they started the Travis jeans company, we said it was important not to take in more orders than you.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Can fulfill over scaleitis. Well, that's what starts happening to Juicy. Their once rock solid supply chain is getting unstable. Quality is slipping.

[Nick Martell]

Tops and bottoms are showing up with slightly different colors. Pants show up with legs at different lengths. The glittery studs that spell out Juicy on the butt, they're falling off after.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

One wash. And USI is way less cool than Juicy.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, yeah. That is fashion Faux project.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Now, Nick, the best acquisitions combine complementary strengths. Liz Claiborne has the infrastructure Juicy needs. And Pam and Gila have the design eye Liz Claiborne wants. So Pam and Gila stay on as co presidents of the brand they created under Liz Claiborne, the two co founders.

[Nick Martell]

They get $56 million plus a massive bonus if Juicy hits their sales targets. Spoiler alert. They will. Which yields Pam and gila a combined $200 million for selling juicy.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Liz Claiborne' got big plans for a Juicy expansion. More retail stores, more international distribution. Handbags, dog carriers, a fragrance line. Anything Paris Hilton might want to buy, they're going to make.

[Nick Martell]

Well, in 2008, Juicy Couture's annual sales peaked at $605 million.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

That's about the same as Canada Goose, Viori and Spanx have today. But 2008 ends with a pesky little global financial crisis. The subprime mortgage bubble is about to pop. Juicy Couture at the seams.

[Nick Martell]

2008 was arguably the most eventful year of that entire decade. Barack Obama is elected president. Beijing's Olympics reveal China as the next great economy. And Twilight finally hits movie theaters. Oh, and also, you know, the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The economic downturn. It's the most frequently recurring character on this show.

[Nick Martell]

Discount brands like Costco, they thrive during this moment. But casual luxury takes a hit.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

According to Liz Claiborne's May 2009 financial statements. It's been three straight quarters of earnings decline and Juicy sales fall over 20%.

[Nick Martell]

It almost like makes sense. 2008 is the year Juicy starts falling down, right?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

We had gigantic homes, we had Cadillac Escalades, and we had the Juicy Couture Tracksuit. The holy trinity of pre financial financial crisis exuberance.

[Nick Martell]

But you know what? There's actually a bigger problem here. In just seven short years, Juicy Tracksuits have gone from the thing everyone wants to the thing everyone has.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This is the luxury paradox. Exclusivity drives demand, but scale kills exclusivity. The Juicy Tracksuit is like the hip little restaurant that turns into a tourist trap when it goes viral.

[Nick Martell]

So for the second time in their entrepreneurial lives, Pam and Gila see the writing on the wall. In 2010, when it's time to renew their contracts as co presidents of Juicy, they decline and they walk out the door.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

In 2013, Liz Claiborne sells Juicy Couture to Authentic Brands Group, or ABG, for a little under $200 million. A company once doing 600 million a year in sales sells itself for a third of that.

[Nick Martell]

The Juicy Couture tracksuit, as an aspirational outfit, it is dead.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Or is it, Nick?

[Nick Martell]

Okay, okay. Juicy is definitely not dead. Because all fashion is cyclical and hot trends that are cool get hot again.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

In 2016, Juicy collabs with a buzzy luxury brand to create a limited edition tracksuit. It costs about $1,000. Okay, but Kylie Jenner posts a pic of herself wearing it with the words Juicy sparkling on her butt.

[Nick Martell]

Okay, was Kylie even born when Juicy was launched?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Good question.

[Nick Martell]

Well, in 2019, JLo, the original Juicy stan appears in not one, but two different Juicy outfits for the movie Hustlers.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Meanwhile, Pam and Gila did not fade into the sunset. In 2014, they started another boutique fashion brand named Pam and Gila. And that brand got acquired too.

[Nick Martell]

As for their legacy, besides jewel tones, hip huggers, and the J. Paul zipper, just look at the $300 billion athleisure slash luxury loungewear market that Juicy set the stage for. With brands like Lululemon, Athleta, Aloe Viori surging with yoga pants, the sector is projected to more than double by 2032. How long will Juicy's nostalgia train keep running? TBD. But either way, zip up your J pulls and salute to the little tracksuit that could. So, Jack, now that you've heard the story of the Juicy Couture tracksuit, what's your takeaway?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Forget leg Day work out that second time founder muscle. Second time founders are powerful. They have a higher success rate on startups than first time founders do. Even if their first go around failed. The success rate is especially high for their second shot if it's in the same industry as the first shot. Because entrepreneurship is like a muscle. The more reps you get in, the stronger it gets.

[Nick Martell]

I mean, Jack, we have seen the benefits of launching our second company in the media space. We came into it having learned from every mistake that we made the first time. We basically had a checklist of what we had to do as well as.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

What to not do.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, totally.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

The Juicy Couture founders are a perfect example of this. Juicy was such a fast success because of what they learned with their first fashion venture, Travis Jeans. So as a founder aim to get that first set of reps under your belt. Work out the second time founder muscle. You'll see the results. What about you, Nick? What's your takeaway?

[Nick Martell]

Okay, you ready? Here. Here's what we're gonna call this, Jack. Six degrees of Paris Hilton. You've got more connections than you realize you do. And I don't just mean in the fashion world. Just open up LinkedIn and see how many people you know know the people that can help you. Juicy was one of the very first brands to truly leverage the fashion attention paid to celebs by the Gossip Max. They were surgical about who could help them elevate their product. And then they were surgical about how to get a warm intro. But honestly, you can do this too.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Maybe it's not a celebrity endorsement that you need. It might be Apple's SVP of marketing. It's easy to think there's no way I can get to him. He's an SVP at Apple. But getting to someone at Apple who knows him might be easier than you think.

[Nick Martell]

Yes, always tap your network to see what resources and personal connections you have, and then tap them to make the next connections. It's usually more than you think. What it is is 6 degrees of Paris health.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

I actually think I'm only 3 degrees from Paris Healthy.

[Nick Martell]

Apparently, Jack, you two interned at the same different Paris Health.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Okay, before we go, it's time for my absolute favorite part of the show, the best facts yet.

[Nick Martell]

These are the hero stats, the facts and the surprises we discovered in our research. But we just couldn't fit into the story. Jack, let's hear them. What do we got?

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

According to Juicy Lore, there is a rumored Juicy curse. Specifically a curse on marriages. You remember Madonna's madge tracksuit. She wore that during her stint as Mrs. Guy Ritchie, but that marriage expired in 2008.

[Nick Martell]

Other custom embroidered tracksuits include Drew Barrymore's Mrs. Green hoodie for her marriage to actor Tom green and Jennifer Aniston's Mrs. Pit hoodie, which we all know what happens happened there as well.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Britney Spears and Kevin Federline gave personalized tracksuits to their bridesmaids and groomsmen before splitting three years later.

[Nick Martell]

And JLo current tally four marriages, four divorces, and a whole bunch of custom Juicy Couture.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Yeah, Juicy, if you're listening, please don't send us any anniversary gifts.

[Nick Martell]

We're good.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

All right, Nick, I got another one for you. We promised we'd give you the dirt on how the word juicy appeared on the bedazzled butts of these tracksuit pants. Well, it all comes down to Gila's son, Travis.

[Nick Martell]

Fall 2001 Gila is attending Travis's seventh grade orientation at his middle school and she notices a cheerleader classmate wearing a pair of shorts that say Cheer on the seat. So Gila thinks it's kind of cute. And then she thinks, know what? This could work for us. And before long, Juicy is appearing on the velour wrapped butts of women across the world.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And and that is why Juicy Couture's tracksuit is the Best Idea Yet Coming up on the next episode of the Best Idea Yet. We're dropping a pin to our current location because we're diving into the creation of Google Maps.

[Nick Martell]

Don't forget to rate and review the show. We love seeing reviews. We really read all of them and the five stars help us grow the show.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery App, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to every episode of the Best Idea yet early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey the best idea yet is a production of Wondery hosted by me, Nick Martel.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

And me, Jack Crevici Kramer. Our senior producers are Matt Beagle and Chris Gautier.

[Nick Martell]

Peter Arcuni is our additional Senior producer.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Our senior Managing Producer is Nick Ryan and Taylor Sniffin is our Managing producer.

[Nick Martell]

Our Associate producer and researcher is H. Conley.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

This episode was written and produced by Katie Clark Gray.

[Nick Martell]

We use so many sources in our research, including the Glitter Plan, how we started juicy couture for $200 and turned it into a global brand by Pamela Skies Levy and Gila Nash Taylor and.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

How Juicy Couture went from a Million Dollar Empire to the Sale Rack by Irene Kim and Steve Cameron for Business Insider Sound design and mixing by CJ.

[Nick Martell]

Drummler Fact checking by Brian Bunyan Music.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Supervision by Scott Velazquez and Jolina Garcia for Freeson Sync.

[Nick Martell]

Our theme song is Got that Feeling Again by Blackilac. Executive producers for Nick and Jack Studios are me, Nick Martell and me, Jack Revici Kramer. Executive producers for Wondery are Dave Easton, Jenny LAUER, BECKMAN Aaron O'Flaherty and Marshall Louie.

[Mike Corey]

Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast Against the Odds. In each episode, we take you to the edge of some of the most incredible adventure and survival stories in history. In our next season, it's 1980, and in the Pacific Northwest, the long dormant volcano Mount St. Helens is showing signs of life. Scientists warn that a big eruption is coming, but a restricted zone around the mountain is limited by politics. On May 18, hikers, loggers, reporters and researchers are caught in the blast zone. As the volcano erupts, they find themselves pummeled by a deadly combination of scorching heat, smothering ash and massive mudslides. The survivors have to find their way to safety before they succumb to their injuries or face another eruption. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge the entire season ad free right now only on Wondery Plus. Start your free trial in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[Jack Revecci Kramer]

Today.