💧 LaCroix: The Cinderella of Seltzers | 32

Summary

The Best Idea Yet: Episode 💧 LaCroix: The Cinderella of Seltzers | 32

Hosts: Nick Martell and Jack Crivici-Kramer
Release Date: May 20, 2025
Podcast: The Best Idea Yet by Wondery

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Introduction: From Wallflower to Homecoming King

In this episode, Nick Martell and Jack Crivici-Kramer delve into the fascinating transformation of LaCroix, a once modest Midwestern seltzer, into a national viral sensation. They explore the brand's history, strategic rebranding, and the entrepreneurial spirit that propelled it to the forefront of the sparkling water market.

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Early History: Heileman Brewing and the Birth of LaCroix

The story begins in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, with Russell Cleary of the G. Heileman Brewing Company. Under Cleary's leadership, Heileman thrived by acquiring various beer brands, climbing to the 6th largest brewing company in the U.S. However, facing antitrust challenges from the Sherman Antitrust Act, Cleary sought alternative growth avenues beyond acquisitions.

Nick Martell explains, “[Russ Cleary] quietly decides this is Heileman's next product. He's going to create his own Wisconsin produced homegrown seltzer, a sparkling water for Heileman to call their own” (02:09).

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Birth of LaCroix: A Modest Beginning

In 1981, Heileman launches LaCroix, named after their hometown, Lacrosse. The initial product was a stark contrast to today’s vibrant cans—a simple 12-ounce green glass bottle inspired by Perrier, reflecting the European influence prevalent in American branding.

Jack Crivici-Kramer notes, “You can see the Perrier influence all over this first version of LaCroix” (12:33).

Despite offering flavors like orange, lemon, and lime, LaCroix remained a regional favorite, predominantly in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois.

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Entrepreneurial Pivot: Nick Caparella and National Beverage Corporation

The pivotal turn in LaCroix’s journey comes with Nick Caparella, an ambitious entrepreneur who seized the opportunity to acquire LaCroix during Heileman's bankruptcy in 1996. Caparella, already expanding his beverage empire through National Beverage Corporation, infused new energy into LaCroix, setting the stage for its eventual resurgence.

Nick Martell describes Caparella as “the bold risk-taker who brought [LaCroix] to life” (14:15).

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Strategic Rebranding: The Chaos Logo and Shelf Presence

A significant factor in LaCroix’s transformation was its bold rebranding in 2002. National Beverage Corporation conducted focus groups to redesign the packaging, ultimately choosing the “Chaos” logo—a vibrant, handwritten cursive design that starkly contrasted the subdued branding favored by executives.

Nick Martell recounts, “The cursive Chaos logo wins” (24:10), despite initial resistance from the management team. This decision enhanced LaCroix’s shelf presence, making it stand out amidst competitors like Perrier and Polar Seltzer.

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Marketing to Women: Expanding the Brand’s Appeal

Caparella identified an untapped market segment: women. While energy drinks like Red Bull targeted predominantly male consumers, LaCroix strategically sponsored women’s sports and health-related causes. This pivot was further supported by engaging with fitness and mommy blogs, and leveraging social media to cultivate a strong, feminine brand identity.

Nick Martell highlights, “Their pitch to these lifestyle bloggers sounds like Hippocrates pitch for carbonated water. LaCroix is a health product” (26:40).

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Viral Success: The Hollywood Writers’ Rooms

A breakthrough moment came when LaCroix replaced Perrier in Hollywood writers' rooms. Writer Ryan Rosenberg discovered LaCroix through Office Max, facilitating easier access and distribution. This grassroots adoption among creative professionals fueled organic buzz, leading to widespread media coverage and cultural adoption.

Jack Crivici-Kramer emphasizes, “The Lacroix takeover of Hollywood writers' rooms starts generating press cycles all its own” (32:30).

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Flavor Expansion and Cultural Integration

LaCroix’s introduction of uniquely named flavors like “Pamplemoussemouse” (a play on the French word for grapefruit) and rapid expansion of its flavor lineup contributed to its distinctive market presence. This strategy, combined with subtle branding cues like the word “innocent” on cans, reinforced LaCroix’s image as a healthy, sophisticated choice.

Nick Martell observes, “This name plus this flavor profile combine to make the most identifiable type of liquidity” (27:50).

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Challenges and Competition: Navigating a Crowded Market

As LaCroix soared, major competitors like PepsiCo and Coca-Cola entered the sparkling water arena, introducing brands like Bubbly and acquiring Topo Chico. Additionally, craft labels like Spindrift offered alternatives with real fruit juice, intensifying the competition.

Jack Crivici-Kramer notes, “The onslaught of competition coming after LaCroix right now is immense” (37:06).

Internally, National Beverage faced leadership challenges with Nick Caparella’s aging age and reported erratic behavior, raising concerns about the company’s long-term sustainability. Despite these hurdles, LaCroix maintained a strong market presence, benefiting from the overall growth of the sparkling water industry.

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Conclusion: The Enduring Appeal of LaCroix

Despite facing increasing competition and internal challenges, LaCroix remains a staple in the sparkling water market. Its ability to reinvent itself through strategic branding, targeted marketing, and authentic cultural integration has cemented its status as the "Cinderella of Seltzers."

Nick Martell concludes, “Most products, they aren't broken and new ideas, they're actually new takes on existing ideas” (42:12), highlighting LaCroix’s success in reimagining a centuries-old product for modern consumers.

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Notable Quotes

• “Russ Cleary quietly decides this is Heileman's next product. He's going to create his own Wisconsin produced homegrown seltzer, a sparkling water for Heileman to call their own.” - Nick Martell (02:09)

• “You can see the Perrier influence all over this first version of LaCroix.” - Jack Crivici-Kramer (12:33)

• “The cursive Chaos logo wins.” - Jack Crivici-Kramer (24:10)

• “Their pitch to these lifestyle bloggers sounds like Hippocrates pitch for carbonated water. LaCroix is a health product.” - Nick Martell (26:40)

• “The Lacroix takeover of Hollywood writers' rooms starts generating press cycles all its own.” - Jack Crivici-Kramer (32:30)

• “Most products, they aren't broken and new ideas, they're actually new takes on existing ideas.” - Nick Martell (42:12)

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Key Takeaways

• Strategic Rebranding: LaCroix’s bold packaging overhaul significantly enhanced its visibility and appeal.

• Targeted Marketing: Focusing on women and leveraging influencer partnerships expanded LaCroix’s consumer base.

• Cultural Integration: Adoption by influential groups, such as Hollywood writers, catalyzed LaCroix’s viral status.

• Adaptability: LaCroix’s continuous flavor innovation and market adaptation have sustained its relevance in a competitive industry.

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LaCroix's journey from a regional seltzer to a national favorite underscores the power of strategic branding, targeted marketing, and cultural resonance in transforming a product into a beloved household name. As the sparkling water market continues to grow, LaCroix exemplifies how thoughtful reinvention can lead to enduring success.

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Transcript

[Nick Martell]

Wondery subscribers can listen to the Best Idea yet early and ad free right now.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

You know Jack, I was a little embarrassed the other day on the flight home from New York. I was watching a movie and then I noticed my seatmate kept glancing over and I think judging me for the movie.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

What were you watching?

[Nick Martell]

This is a six hour flight back to San Francisco, so I enjoyed a little Clueless. Is it too much to enjoy the movie Clueless in the privacy of seat 17B? As if I felt judged. But I don't care. I'm gonna watch the whole movie.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Best part of that movie. Brittany Murphy. Yes. And the epic makeover she gets put through from Alicia Silverstone.

[Nick Martell]

Totally. I mean, was it even a 90s movie? Unless there's a 12 minute makeover montage. Pretty Woman, Clueless, Devil Wears Prada. And of course, this all begins with Cinderella. The ultimate glow up of all that set us up for all the makeover SC for the rest of our lives.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We all love a good glow up story.

[Nick Martell]

Yes, we do.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And today's story is about a product that went on just this kind of journey from wallflower to homecoming king.

[Nick Martell]

And that product is. Lacroix. I'll be a La Croix boy. Crack me open and drink me down.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The clip you just heard is from one of Lacroix's many viral moments in the 2000 teens when this gently flavored, extra bubbly selt burst onto the sea.

[Nick Martell]

Since then, Lacroix, AKA Lacroix, if you took AP French in high school, have dominated office break rooms. The Airbnb you booked for your ski weekend? Boom. That fridge stocked with Lacroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Whether you're reaching for La Croix Spindrift, Topo Chico or Polar Seltzer, we are in the fizzy water era because the modern sparkling water market is worth over $30 billion.

[Nick Martell]

That is more than the global markets for hot tubs, houseplants and orange juice comb. The real surprise of this story is that Lacroix has actually been around way longer than you realized.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

La Croix used to be considered a diet drink for Milwaukee moms before it got a trendy millennial makeover. And before that it was part of a beer company.

[Nick Martell]

So how did La Croix go from a quiet mid tier seltzer to a viral star? We're gonna pop one open and get into it.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Along the way, we'll learn how seltzer traveled from the spas of ancient Greece to the writer's rooms of Burbank, California.

[Nick Martell]

We'll learn how brands are more people's.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Choice than Academy Awards and how to correctly pronounce Pamplemoose.

[Nick Martell]

I think you mean Pomplemoose. Jack.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Here's why La Croix is the best idea yet.

[Nick Martell]

From Wondery and T Boy, I'm Nick Martell.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And I'm Jack Revici Kramer.

[Nick Martell]

And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

You'Re obsessed with and the bold risk takers who made them go viral. I got that feeling again Something's familiar but no, we got it coming to you. I got that feeling again they changed.

[Nick Martell]

The game in one the locals call it God's country, but on the map it's called lacrosse Wisconsin. And on this early Midwestern morning, the lacrosse sky is full of puffy clouds reflected in the ripples of the mighty Mississippi Mississippi River. From his office window, 47 year old Russell Cleary takes in this stunning waterfront view. On a clear day like this, he can actually almost see all the way over to Minnesota. He's a soft spoken man with a pointed nose and clear framed aviator glasses. Russ looks like the treasurer of your local chamber of commerce. But in fact, Russ is in charge of the most successful brewing company you've never heard of, the G. Heileman Brewing Company.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Heileman has been making Wisconsin beers and malt beverages since before the Civil War. The company has survived Prohibition, a bunch of economic downturns and an epic industry wide consolidation.

[Nick Martell]

But as we join this story in early 1981, Russ Cleary has quietly been building Heileman into a national contender. He's just led the company through a series of acquisitions, adding brands like Beck's, Carling, Black Label and the Malt Liquor Cult 45 paper bag not included.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

If you're not familiar with some of those brews, that's all part of Russell's master plan. Heileman has become a national competitor without really being a national presence. Under his steady hand, the company has climbed from 39th to 6th biggest brewing company in the United States.

[Nick Martell]

And now they're considering buying Schlitz outright.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Russell's MO is speak softly and carry a big merger agreement.

[Nick Martell]

But there is one problem with Russell's expansion plan, an oldie but a goodie called the Sherman Antitrust act passed back in 1890 to break up big oil. This is the law that's supposed to protect consumers from giant monopolies dominating an industry. The US Justice Department has already blocked two of Heileman's big beer mergers, including a megadeal that would have given them breweries in eight different states.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The government's basically telling Heileman, you've been overserved.

[Nick Martell]

If Heileman can't make those deals, it puts a major damper on their ability to expand. So Russ Cleary, he's got to get creative. So he investigates how else Heileman might grow, not just through acquisition, but but through diversification. Instead of trying to own all the beer brands in America, maybe they can make a play for some new markets instead.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

That's when Russ thinks back to a recent trip he took to Germany. Bavarian brewers there weren't just fermenting hops and brewing beer. They also made their own lines of waters, sparkling mineral waters.

[Nick Martell]

That is key, Jack, because if your company already has facilities for making bubbly alcoholic drinks, it shouldn't be that hard to spin that expertise into bub non alcoholic drinks. Double dip on the equipment you already got.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Russ quietly decides this is Heileman's next product. He's going to create his own Wisconsin produced homegrown seltzer, a sparkling water for Heileman to call their own.

[C]

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[C]

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[Jack Revici Kramer]

Russell.

[Nick Martell]

Cleary's aha moment in 1981 does not actually mark the start of our obsession with bubbly water. Step into our classroom and get ready for a little seltzer 101.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But before we get started, Nick and I will be using the words seltzer, carbonated water and sparkling water pretty much interchangeably, even though technically there is a difference between the three.

[Nick Martell]

Our love of the bub it actually goes back, like way back to 400 B.C. and the ancient Greek doctor named Hippocrates.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

His greatest hits include the Hippocratic Oath, which every doctor today must take before putting on their white jacket and treating people.

[Nick Martell]

Hippocrates wrote about the healing properties of carbonated water, which he found naturally in special springs in ancient Greece. People will enjoy nature's tectonic water as is for the next couple thousand years, although Hippocrates sadly never commercialized it because he was too busy philosophizing.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Then, around the year 1700, a small European spa town starts bottling their local springs fizzy water in clay jugs and starts selling it to tourists.

[Nick Martell]

And Jack, what was the name of that small European spa town?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Nieder Seltzer's Germany.

[Nick Martell]

The name of their signature drink, of course, gets shortened to just seltzer. And in the late 1700s, scientists invent a mechanical process of adding carbon dioxide bubbles to regular water. An entrepreneur can now make a tasty seltzer from anywhere.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The first person to mass produce this artificially bubbly water, it's a man named Jacob Schwepp.

[Nick Martell]

Sounds familiar.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Yeah, like Schwepp's ginger ale.

[Nick Martell]

And this leads to a huge upgrade in the next century, the invention of the soda fountain. You can find these in drugstores, general stores, and even perfume shops. The soda fountain basically takes over.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Get this, in the early 1900s, there were more than 70 different soda fountains on the Lower east side of Manhattan, an area that's only one half of a square mile.

[Nick Martell]

But the Seltzer craze eventually gives way to a different bubbly concoction. In the 1940s and 50s, Coca Cola.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Coke becomes king and Seltzer gets dethroned.

[Nick Martell]

But we should point out Jack Seltzer is not down for the count yet. In the 1970s, Perrier decides that they're thirsty for a bigger market. They want America's soda drinkers.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Perrier isn't some upstart. They've been selling carbonated water out of France for over 100 years at this point. But in 1976, they kick off a multimillion dollar ad campaign to convert Americans to foreign fizzy water.

[Nick Martell]

Here's an ad from that time featuring Academ award winning filmmaker Orson Welles.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Deep below the plains of southern France, in a mysterious process begun millions of years ago, nature herself adds life to the icy waters of a single spring. Perrier. Wow. If Citizen Kane told me to drink some Perrier, I'd probably do it.

[Nick Martell]

Well, it works. U.S. sales for Perrier shoot up from 3 million bottles in 1976 to 200 million bottles just three years later.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But this European invasion causes a patriotic pushback. Here in the States, Polar Seltzer, a century old company out of Worcester, Massachusetts, becomes one of the first big brands to add light flavoring to their Seltzer lineup. Something Perrier wasn't doing.

[Nick Martell]

New England is, they swear, bipolar rhymes with Noma.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

By 1979, the New York Times is reporting of a full blown seltzer renaissance. 1970s soda water is swinging B.

[Nick Martell]

And it is in this context, this Seltzer renaissance, that Heileman Brewing Company launches a new brand in 1981. It's called La Croix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The CEO, Russell Cleary, names the drink himself, an homage to the company's hometown of La Crosse, Wisconsin and the nearby St. Croix River.

[Nick Martell]

Our research team went deep to track down the very first version of the Lacroix sparkling water. And honestly, this was looks nothing like it does today. I mean, this isn't in some splashy, colorful can. This is a 12 ounce green glass bottle. You can see the Perrier influence all over this first version of Lacroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

You can also see it in Lacroix's vaguely French sounding name.

[Nick Martell]

True, Jack.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We've said it before, we'll say it again. Americans love European branding and they'll pay more for it.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, a Milano cookie. A Haagen Dazs pint. It is sophistication by association that European branding. It is a profit puppy.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But Russ Cleary knows that copying Perrier isn't a long term strategy. So he also takes a page from the polar playbook. And he adds flavor. Early Lacroix offers orange, lemon or lime.

[Nick Martell]

But then Russ goes even further. In 1986, Lacroix makes an alcoholic version to cash in on the wine cooler era.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Sorry, White Claw. Lacroix Malt beverages had you beat by 30 years.

[Nick Martell]

But even with these epic choices, Lacroix stays pretty low key, just like its founder, Russell Cleary.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Well, we did say High Limit is a stealthy company.

[Nick Martell]

It is.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Their strategy is build in the shadows and shine in the spotlight.

[Nick Martell]

We should also point out that the beverage market tends to be fragmented by region, so it's tough for Lacroix to break out of its upper Midwestern bubble. Lacroix is sold in more than 30 states, but sales are strongest in their own backyard. They're killing it in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Big Ten country.

[Nick Martell]

LaCroix is the go to drink for Midwestern moms throughout the 80s and throughout the 90s. You might find one of them at the bottom of a picnic cooler or in your friend's fridge after the Capri Suns run out by the lake.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

So if you're a fan of La Croix, you're probably asking yourself right now, how does it go from a Wisconsin tailgate beverage, the last picked in the cooler, to a national viral cultural phenomenon?

[Nick Martell]

Well, Jack, I guess the real question isn't actually how, it's who. Because Lacroix's Glow up owes it all to one entrepreneur who's so driven he'll make Mark Cuban look like George Costanza. And this guy's name is Nick Caparella. Now, Jack, if Russell Cleary at Heileman Brewing keeps his business moves quiet, then Nick Caparella, he does things out loud. Caparella was born to Italian immigrants in a rural Pennsylvania mining town. And he's been making money for his family since age 11. His first business, collecting scrap metal, bicycle repair and making mud flaps for trucks out of old conveyor belts. And when Caparella hits his teenage years, his dad gets a construction job and the family moves down to West Palm Beach, Florida. Cap will end up going into construction, too. And his first grown up job is at age 22, when he's maintaining huge cranes, getting paid just a buck an hour.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But then Caparella makes a legendary haggle that will change the direction of his entire life. He meets a man who is selling an excavator for $9,000. Cap doesn't have $9,000 though, so he convinces the seller to let him take it for a down payment of just 250 bucks. He promises the guy he'll work off the rest of his payment by using the excavator to start a construction business of his own.

[Nick Martell]

Nikki Cap is barely old enough to drink, and yet he convinced this guy to let him drive off with a giant machine for almost no money down. And a bunch of construction projects later, bada bing, bada boom. That excavator owner gets repaid in full. And Nick Caparella is a millionaire by age 30. By age 40, his company gets acquired. By age 50, he's diversifying his holdings and looking for something new.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

He's also fending off a hostile takeover. But that's a story for another pod.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, someday we should do a whole episode about hostile takeovers and activist investors. By the way, Jack, fascinating topic, but.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Tldr, he's basically facing a real life Gordon Gekko.

[Nick Martell]

So to defend his company, Caparello whips up some what we would call financial weaponry.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

He figures out how he can end the hostile takeover if he forms a new company that buys up enough shares of his old company to dilute his activist investors shares for his new entity.

[Nick Martell]

He goes pretty far outside his area of expertise. He goes into soft drinks and seltzers. That's right. In 1985, Nick Caparella founds a business with a boring but ambitious name. National Beverage Corporation.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Any reason why beverages are not like gravel, granite, or sand? We're talking about a construction guy who made millions with forklifts.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, Jack. It just so happens Caparella had bought a soft drink bottling plant a couple years back to diversify his portfolio. So he's got this asset and he figures, you know what? Why not lean into it? But here's the crazy part. Once he decides that he's all in on soft drinks, he embraces them as fully as he embraced scrap metal and bicycle repair when he was a kid. Basically, Nikki Cap crowns himself the Sultan of Soda.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Now, ironically, given that he just escaped a financial takeover, the Soda Sultan's growth plan for national beverage is to acquire existing beverage companies. If you can't beat them, buy them.

[Nick Martell]

His first big play, it's buying the soft drink brand Shasta, the soda brand with flavor offerings fruitier than a bag of Skittles. And then he buys another soda brand, Faygo, a Michigan born soda company also known for its bold flavors.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And for all the insane clowns out there, we know that Faygo is the beloved drink of Insane Clown Posse and their fans, the Juggalos.

[Nick Martell]

But Clowns aside, National Beverage Corporation keeps growing and the company actually goes public in 1991 with what Jack and I happen to think is the greatest stock ticker in the history of the stock market. Fizz F I Z Z.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But the real jewel and National Beverages crown is yet to come. Soon Shasta and Faygo gain a corporate cousin, the hero of our story that shockingly, has fallen on hard times up in Wisconsin.

[Nick Martell]

That's right, Jack. Mild mannered Midwestern Lacroix is in trouble. And National Beverage Corp. Has a chance to save it.

[E]

As a contractor for the nsa, Edward Snowden had access to a range of top secret government programs. But as he learned more about these clandestine operations, he came to understand a devastating secret. The government was conducting mass surveillance on its own citizens. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, Whistleblower Edward Snowden changes the national conversation about privacy on the Internet as he risks his own freedom and his family's well being. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to all episodes ad free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery. You can join Wonry Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.

[Nick Martell]

Jack. Picture poor Lacroix. When we left off, the brand was a modest but steady Midwestern success. Its manufacturer, Heileman Brewing Company was selling it in cute glass bottles in a range of flavors. They were even making a line of Lacroix malt liquor.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But after cruising through the 1980s, Heileman runs into a challenge the size of a team of Clydesdales. Mega brands like Anheuser Busch.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, the reality is Heileman just can't compete with big beer. So the company files for bankruptcy protection in 1991. Pour one out for our Bruin buddies up in Wisconsin.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Heileman's Chapter 11 status means they have to auction off assets, including Lacroix, to pay their debtors quickly. And in 1996, Nick Caparella takes it, adding it to his growing soft drink empire, National Beverage Corp. The acquisition price has never been publicly disclosed, but given how bankruptcy auctions work, we can assume Lacroix was on sale like a 30 rack at Costco.

[Nick Martell]

Caparella, he's building up his business. Deal after deal after deal. And by the end of the millennium, National Beverage fizz on the stock market, hits a billion dollars in annual sales.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But remember, this soda conglomerate has a lot of soft drinks under its belt, like Shasta and Faygo.

[Nick Martell]

Those brands, Jack, they got big, bold flavors and a higher national profile than lacroix. So if Caporal isn't careful, little lacroix is going to get lost in the beverage shuffle.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But Nick Capora loves an underdog, and he believes in Lacroix. In fact, he kind of becomes personally obsessed with Lacroix and putting his own unique stamp on the brand.

[Nick Martell]

Man, it's about to get an epic refresh that will change the course of Seltzer history. You find yourself in a rented conference room. Nothing much to this place besides a projector screen and a plastic ficus. You're in here with several other people who, like you, were plucked from the street and lured inside by a modest stipend. You've all been invited to the grand corporate tradition known as as the focus group. It's 2002, and you've got an important job today. You got to help lacroix pick a fresh new look for its millennial era.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We know this is an audio medium, but we're going to do our best to guide you through this visual design story, because it's this packaging redesign that unlocks lacroix's viral success.

[Nick Martell]

In front of you are three labels. You have to choose between options A, B, or. Or C. There is no right answer. The moderator reminds you, just go with your gut, people.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Option A is understated and simple. A light gray stripe at the top, the color of the flavor at the bottom. The letters are a plain design, like the default font on your MacBook.

[Nick Martell]

The moderator doesn't tell you this, but option A right here. This is the first choice of National Beverages Management Team. It's tactful, it's safe. It's not going to offend any anyone.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Option B is a little more colorful, with a background of swirly designs.

[Nick Martell]

It's a bit busier, but the lettering is still very clean. Skinny capital letters spell out lacroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

It's still safe, it's still simple. Just adds a tiny bit of flair.

[Nick Martell]

But then option C enters the chat.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Option C is like Happy Gilmore walking into the PGA Tour. Very rough around the edges, not buttoned up at all like the other two options.

[Nick Martell]

Option C uses this loopy, handwritten cursive. Kind of looks like Tinkerbell's autogr graph. It's got dark blue letters underscored with a blue and teal swoop. There is not a single right angle or hard line on this candle.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The Management team at Lacroix does not like option C. In fact, there is only one person at National Beverage Corp. Who's excited about this cursive Chaos logo.

[Nick Martell]

You guessed it, that person is the founder and CEO Nikki Caparella.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Nikki Caps personally contributed to this crazy design shocker. He worked with a top branding firm. Cap chooses lettering that feels fluid, like flowing water, but also a little jagged because the water is effervescent. And by those measures, the Chaos logo is firing on all cylinders. But this hand drawn logo also looks a little nuts.

[Nick Martell]

It does, Jack. So behind Cap's back, most of the executives around him are like crossing their fingers and hoping the focus group ignores option C. So besties, which one are you gonna choose? The simple Helvetica MacBook one? The slightly busier one? Or the option that looks like someone took a handful of Crayolas to the nearest wall?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The answer to the horror of National Beverages executive team. The cursive Chaos logo wins.

[Nick Martell]

It's crazy.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Everyone lets out a giant groan on the other side of the one way mirror. Except Nikki Capps, who is thrilled. And that crayon looking signature is still Lacroix's brand look today.

[Nick Martell]

As Jack and I like to say, the packaging is the product.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But there are real stakes when it comes to a brand refresh. It's not like repainting the office or getting new lobby furniture. This is Extreme Makeover brand edition.

[Nick Martell]

But here's the thing, Jeff. For Lacroix, the brightly colored Chaos logo works because their goal isn't to look sharp in a magazine ad or on a billboard or in a website.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

National Beverage doesn't have much of an ad budget, so they're relying on something called shelf presence to increase sales.

[Nick Martell]

Shelf presence is pretty much what it sounds like. Like, how much does this package grab your attention in the grocery store aisle? The war is in the stores in those three seconds when the consumer makes their decision. Did you have presents? So standing out, that's like 90% of the battle.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

In the sophisticated world of green glass Perrier bottles, Lacroix's new brightly colored cans punch like a fistful of Sour Patch Kids.

[Nick Martell]

Lacroix can is going to go on to win a Design Award in 2003. After that, you won't be catching Lacroix in bottles anymore. It's Chaos can or nothing.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Nick Caparella makes one more product update to Lacroix. During this brand refresh, he cranks up Lacroix's carbonation quotient, an aspect that he calls bite.

[Nick Martell]

This is a full on Cinderella makeover. And Lacroix is heading to the ball, baby.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And it's a great time to kick off a new sales strategy too, because during this time, something else is happening in the beverage space. You might remember from a previous episode of ours.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, we got two words for you. Red Bull. In the early 2000s, when National Beverage is busy revamping the look in the feel of Lacroix, energy drinks led by Red Bull are taking over America.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But according to industry data, a majority of energy drink buyers at the time are men. To Nick Caparella, there are two ways to interpret this data. First, first, women don't like energy drinks. Or maybe energy drinks just aren't targeting women. So Nick bets on the latter. There's untapped market potential here to market a drink to women.

[Nick Martell]

While Red Bull is sponsoring extreme sports like skydiving, cliff jumping, and anything that might trigger an OD on testosterone, Lacroix sponsors women's sports and charity runs for breast cancer research.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And with the rise of blogs in the mid-2000s, Lacroix goes hard, targeting fitness blogs, mommy blogs, and any other femme coded corner of the Internet. They even give away Tory Burch handbags to bloggers in exchange for glowing reviews. A little quid pro quo.

[Nick Martell]

Their pitch to these lifestyle bloggers sounds like Hippocrates pitch for carbonated water. Lacroix is a health product.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Lacroix even prints the word innocent on the can with an exclamation point point. Because Lacroix is, in their words, innocent of sugar, calories, sodium, and artificial ingredients.

[Nick Martell]

Lacroix's health pitch works. In 2009, two nutritionists launched a diet program that goes mega viral. Jack, do you remember Whole30?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

I never tried it, okay? But I was aware it was a thing.

[Nick Martell]

Whole 30 will approve Lacroix by name as something you can drink on their restricted diet regimen.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Whole 30 also encourages followers to post their meals on social. So Instagram becomes a perfect place to show off what flavor Lacroix you paired with your tuna steak. Lacroix has accidentally hijacked the algorithm thanks to Whole30.

[Nick Martell]

But Jack, it is Lacroix's next move that really bumps up their cultural stock. Move over, Guy Fieri, because Lacroix is coming over to Flavortown in 2004. The drink comes in six flavors. Pure lemon, lime berry, orange, and cran raspberry. But in 2008, Nick Caparello whips out that Euro curious naming strategy again. And he adds the flavor Pamplemoussemouse or Pomplemoose.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

As I'M probably mispronouncing it is just the French word for grapefruit.

[Nick Martell]

And this name plus this flavor profile combine to make the most identifiable type of liquidity. Lacroix. Add any of the flavors now, Lacroix adds coconut in 2011 and peach pear in 2012. But then Lacroix basically doubles their flavor count over the next three years. And Jack, you and I have studied food and beverage brands for over a decade, but have we ever seen a company launch this many flavors at this scale this quickly?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We have not. And this flavor strategy, plus their strategic targeting of women, creates a massive sales boom for Lacroix.

[Nick Martell]

It is not your imagination. Lacroix really did get massively popular more or less overnight. And the proof is in their stock price, which went from nine bucks a share in 2014 to over 60 bucks a share just three years later.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

That is 6x growth.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, and what we're saying is that La Croix is the Nvidia of refreshment.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But hang on, Nick, crack open another can, because that may not be the whole story Toy. We've actually learned about a lesser known reason for the popularity explosion of Lacroix.

[Nick Martell]

We think the real cause of the La Croix surge just might be Office Max. Ah, glamorous Hollywood. Tinseltown Red carpets, designer gowns, radiant celebs. Just kidding. We're actually sitting in a studio backlot in Burbank, California. California, where the unglamorous job of writing TV shows actually happens. In these rooms, they got low ceilings, long conference tables piled with snacks for the writers to nosh on throughout the day. We're talking pizza bagels, gummy worms, and basically enough kind bars to trigger a nut allergy. Stocking these writers with creative fuel, that is literally a full time job. Specifically the job of the writer's assistant. And in 2012, one such assistant is comedian Ryan Rosenberg.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Ryan handles all the jobs nobody wants to do, from printing and collating script revisions to ordering lunches, to stocking the break room with supplies. And one thing he's learned. Catering to the whims of thirsty scribes. TV writers love pounding sparkling water.

[Nick Martell]

Look, these people are penning classic episodes with beloved characters. They're crafting Lorelei's reaction when Rory Gilmore chooses Yale over Harvard. Regular water. That just ain't gonna cut it.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Ryan learns that one thing he must keep stocked at all times is Perrier. And keeping Perrier stocked gets really annoying.

[Nick Martell]

Glass bottles, man, they are heavy. And if supplies run low, guess whose job it is to find more.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Poor Ryan. He's having to carry case after case of Perrier out of a Safeway or a rack. This Perrier stocking part of his job. It's a real pain. Point.

[Nick Martell]

But then one day, Ryan opens up the Office Max website to order some alligator clips and sticky notes. And he notices something that's about to transform his life. Office Max carries sparkling water that he can order by the case.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

It's not Perrier, but the colors are pretty and the flavors are on point. So now he's just got to figure out how much lime to order and how much pamplemoose.

[Nick Martell]

Now, unbeknownst to Ryan, National Beverage has just scaled up distribution in California, meaning Lacroix is now available at west coast office supply stores. Now, we know what you're thinking. This is not a typical sales location for a food and beverage company. But look, there's no competition between the copiers and the sharpies, so what the heck, it's worth a shot. Why not sell Lacroix at Office Max?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We say this all the time. Distribution is destiny. Where your product is carried directly influences who buys it, how much they buy, and how often.

[Nick Martell]

When office supply stores start carrying Lacroix sparkling water, the friction to purchase it suddenly goes way down. And less friction means more sales. Lacroix starts replacing Perrier in writers rooms from the Disney lot to the cw, and the writers decide all across Hollywood, you know what? We love this stuff.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Scribes for the buzziest shows of the 2000 and tens get obsessed with Lacroix Parks and rec. You're the worst Vampire Diaries. Even two broke girls.

[Nick Martell]

And here's the key. Unlike the midwestern moms in the 80s and 90s, these creatives, they got some cultural influence and a major social reach, since being funny online is literally how writers tend to book their next gigs. Before long, the Lacroix takeover of Hollywood writers rooms starts generating press cycles all its own. Articles about Lacroix start hitting buzzfeed, Vox, the New York Times, and before you know it, Lacroix is a viral darling across basically all the media platforms.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

There are songs written about Lacroix, like this one from an artist called Big Dipper, which you heard at the top of the show. My mama used to drink room Temple Croix. As a boy, I thought it nasty, but now I enjoy carbonated elixir. It gives me my fix. Just what I need.

[Nick Martell]

Now, this is more recent, but there's also a scene in succession when cousin Greg tries to flush wasabi out of a guy's eyes using lemony Lacroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

It doesn't go well, water in it. Put water in what?

[F]

That's lemon. It's lemon gray.

[Nick Martell]

That's clear. It's liquid.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

It's not that lemony.

[Nick Martell]

It's just a hint of lemon. It's more entertaining hearing that than watching it.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Jack, just want to point out Cousin Greg brings up a great point. Point. How lemony is Lacroix? Really?

[Nick Martell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

There's actually a passionate debate online over what it means that some flavors are called flavored and other flavors are called essence. What's the difference?

[Nick Martell]

And whether it is essence or flavored, both varieties are pretty subtle. Cue the memes, Jack.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

People say that citrusy lacroix tastes like a lime calling you long distance.

[Nick Martell]

Or like whispering the word strawberry into a paper cup.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

They say Lacroix tastes like the memory of a grape.

[Nick Martell]

And honestly, you can't call these people haters because the jokes just drive more and more LaCroix sales. Jack, what's happening with fizz?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

By 2017, National Beverage Corp. Is valued at over $4 billion. And the next year, LaCroix alone hits almost $1 billion in annual sales. More than double Perrier's and more than four times what Polar Seltzer is doing.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, and our buddy, Nick Caparella, he hit the 3 comma billionaire status club back in 2015. By 2018, he's worth close to $5 billion. Personally, not the company, just him.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Remember, he had the chance to retire a few times over his career. He was a millionaire by the age of 30.

[Nick Martell]

He could have bought himself a catamaran and sailed off into the sunset 30 years before this.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But that's not the Nikki Caparella way.

[Nick Martell]

No, it's not. Billions. No billions. Cap remains very involved in the Lacroix brand. He's nurtured that brand from bankruptcy to become the ultimate beverage influencer.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

You could even say he gets too involved.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah.

[G]

Last year, Law and Crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John o' Keefe, with her car. Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second degree murder. The six week trial resulted in anything but resolution.

[Nick Martell]

We continue to find ourselves at an impasse.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Yes, I'm declaring a mistrial in this case.

[G]

But now the case is back in the spotlight and one question still lingers. Did Karen Reed kill John o' Keefe?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reed is innocent. How does it feel to be a cop killer, Karen?

[G]

I'm Kristen Thorne, investigative reporter with Law and Crime and host of the podcast Karen the Retrial this isn't just a retrial trial. It's a second chance at the truth. I have nothing to hide. My life is in the balance and it shouldn't be.

[Nick Martell]

I just want people to go back to who the victim is in this. It's not her.

[G]

Listen to episodes of Karen the Retrial exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus.

[Nick Martell]

It is a rule of Newtonian physics and business. What goes on must come down and.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

What gets popular must get competition.

[Nick Martell]

The 2018 PepsiCo releases a direct competitor to Lacroix. It's called Bubbly. Their own flavored seltzer in bright old cans. The previous year, Coca Cola bought the Mexican mineral water brand Topo Chico. And Coke plans to leverage Topo Chico's cult following, driving a wedge between trendsetters and their LaCroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Then in 2018, Pepsi acquired acquires the DIY seltzer company SodaStream. Both major cola war combatants are officially gunning for Lacroix.

[Nick Martell]

But Jack, it's not just Coke and Pepsi. There's a craft label boom going on too that sees a rush of new competitors into the sparkling water sector, including Spindrift, which has real fruit juice in it. For people drinking Lacroix as a health aide, Spindrift presents a tasty alternative that feels more natural, even though both claim to be natural.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Yeah, Spindrift tastes less lemony because there's lemon juice in it. Yeah, Lacroix tastes lemony because of some magic zero calorie natural lemon flavor.

[Nick Martell]

Either way, Lacroix is now facing fresh competition from the top with big beverage and from the bottom with the drink startups. Now, stiff competition does not have to kill you. Red Bull, for example, faced off against Monster Rockstar and Five Hour Energy and it's still number one in energy drink sales worldwide.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But the onslaught of competition coming after Lacroix right now is immense. And by the late 2000 and tens, Lacroix is struggling under the guidance of their aging boss.

[Nick Martell]

In 2018, Nick Caparella turns 83 years old while still running National Beverage and owning 70% of the shares. Jack, what does 70% of the shares mean?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

It means he has a veto proof majority over any business decisions.

[Nick Martell]

If this guy wants to launch a hummus flavored sparkling water legally, no one on the team could stop him.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

But the press can report on him. They and that's exactly what they do. News stories emerge of erratic behavior by the Lacroix boss. As reported by Bloomberg. Some employees say he is verbally abusive, that when he gets pushback on decisions about Lacroix. He tells them that Lacroix is M I N E. That's the direct quote.

[Nick Martell]

In 2016, Nick gets sued for alleged inappropriate touching of employees. Now, obviously we don't know what happened, so we're going to keep our lawyers briefcase abundant. But the fact is, is anytime there's one person at a company that's unfirable, it presents a major challenge to that company's long term health.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

When you have a leader that no one can question or say no to, that leaves a business vulnerable to mismanagement.

[Nick Martell]

Well, National Beverage struggles with this very problem, weathering a major stock dip in 2019 that has a bunch of analysts writing early obituaries for lacroix. But here's the thing. If you've been to Whole Foods lately, you know that Lacroix, it hasn't gone anywhere. It's still stocked all over the shelves and in corporate break rooms and in Airbnb fridges and yeti coolers at your nephew's soccer game.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Yeah, Lacroix may not be getting the red carpet treatment like it used to, but so far, rumors of its demise have been greatly exaggerated. And we have a theory about why.

[Nick Martell]

The broader seltzer market is stronger than it's ever been. The global sparkling water market. It's worth over 30 billion bucks, which is expected to more than double by 2028.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

As the saying goes, a rising tide lifts all boats, especially if the tide is bubbly.

[Nick Martell]

Basically, the majority of the bottled water market has now been captured by sparkling water. Dizani and Fiji. You're out. Topo Chico and Lacroix, come on over. You're in. So even if Lacroix's hype cycle is winding down, it's still reaping the benefits.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

La Croix was so much in the zeitgeist in the late 2000 teens, people kind of got sick of hitting hearing it. But the underlying product is sound. So once the fad driven interest faded, lacroix core fans like Coastal Millennials and Creative Industries, they still genuinely love the product.

[Nick Martell]

But these millennials, they're now creeping up toward middle age themselves. So what if this is just a case of Lacroix returning to its roots as in a quiet brand that middle aged folks seem to like?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Not sure I want to discuss millennials hitting middle age, Nick. Yeah, but give me a Pample mousse mocktail and I'll ponder it.

[Nick Martell]

One Pampletini coming right up, Jack. Now that we've gone full makeover like Cinderella and you've heard the whole Story of Lacroix. What's your takeaway?

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Great consumer brands aren't trying to win an Oscar. They want a People's Choice Award. Let's go back to when Lacroix went through its branding refresh, the one with the focus groups. They asked people to choose between classy and understated, which the executives want wanted, and loud and splashy, which Nick Caporal wanted. The experts went for the classy choice, but the masses, they wanted the Chaos label. And that's what mattered most for Lacroix. Shelf presence.

[Nick Martell]

Choosing a drink, it isn't like choosing a film from the Criterion Collection. It's an everyday action. Most people aren't even thinking about it that much. It's frankly, in the subconscious space that powerful consumer branding operates.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And it taps into that instinctive, distinctive part of the brain that reaches for what's most inviting. And in Lacroix case, that was their loudest, most colorful can option.

[Nick Martell]

It was the Chaos packaging.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Forget about the Oscar. What you want is a People's Choice Award. What about you, Nick? What's your takeaway?

[Nick Martell]

My takeaway is that you can reinvent the wheel. I kind of sound like a motivational speaker here, but I'm gonna say it again anyway, Jack, you can reinvent the wheel. Most products, they aren't broken and new ideas, they're actually new takes on existing ideas. Like if you grew up in the 2000 and tens, you might have thought that Lacroix invented Seltzer, but in fact, Seltzer is a 2,400-year-old product, actually.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Fact check.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, Jack, it's a three and a.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Half billion year old product because that's how long planet Earth has had mineral springs.

[Nick Martell]

What we're saying is that this product is older than Labrantosaurus, but it's also been reinvented many, many, many, many times. From getting hyped by Hippocrates to green Perrier bottles. Lacroix alone has reinvented itself a few times over. But its brand refresh in the early 2000s was so successful, Lacroix seemed like a totally new product.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

We often romanticize the idea of brand new, unprecedented products. This happens a lot in the venture world, which is why all the startups looking for investment are rushing to get in on the AI generation trend.

[Nick Martell]

But in reality, some of the most viral products aren't unprecedented at all. They've reinvented the wheel in a smart way. Inventions can be reinvented.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Okay, before we go, it's time for my favorite part of the show. The best facts yet the hero stats.

[Nick Martell]

The facts and the surprises we discovered in our research. But we just couldn't fit into the story.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

One question around Lacroix is whether it's good or bad for your teeth. Well, According to a 2006 study from the University of Birmingham, carbonic acid, the substance used to create seltzer bubbles, erodes dental enamel.

[Nick Martell]

You know, I've never had a cavity. I don't know if I mentioned that to you before, many times, but I'm concerned about this news.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Well, a few years later, when Wired magazine asked the dean of a dentistry school about it, he said that the enzymes in your mouth neutralize carbonic acid, making La Croix and Seltzer basically okay.

[Nick Martell]

Also, we promised at the start of the show, Yetis that we would tell you the difference between seltzer, mineral water, sparkling water and soda water. And here is that reveal.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Seltzer is carbonated mineral water, meaning naturally bubbly water from a natural underground supply.

[Nick Martell]

Meanwhile, what most people call seltzer is actually sparkling water, which is sodium free still water that you add bubbles to later.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

So which one is Lacroix?

[Nick Martell]

Well, according to Lacroix website, Jack, they are sparkling water, not seltzer.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The bubbles aren't natural. They add the bubbles later.

[Nick Martell]

And that same website, by the way, it also reveals why the word innocent is on the can.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Innocent of sugar and sodium, guilty of being delicious.

[Nick Martell]

And that, my friends, is why Lacroix is simply the Best Idea Yet.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Coming up on the next episode of the Best Idea yet. Grab a dog, a burger and a side of fries because we're talking about.

[Nick Martell]

Heinz ketchup, king of the condiments. Hey, if you have a product you're obsessed with, but you wish you knew the backstory, drop us a comment. We'll look into it for you.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Oh, and while you're at it, give us a rating and review. 5 stars helps us grow the show. Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to every episode of the Best Idea yet early and ad free right now by joining Wonder plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Nick Martell]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey. The best idea yet is a production of Wondery hosted by me, Nick Martel.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

And me, Jack Crevici Kramer. Our senior producers are Matt Beagle and Chris Gautier.

[Nick Martell]

Peter R. Mark Cooney is our additional senior producer.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Our senior managing producer is Nick Ryan and Taylor Sniffin is our managing producer.

[Nick Martell]

Our Associate producer and researcher is H. Conley.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

This episode was written and produced by Katie Clark Gray.

[Nick Martell]

We use many sources in our research, including Battle of the Bubbles by Lauren Etter and Craig Giamona for Bloomberg News.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The secret history of the lacroix label by Ashley Halpern for Bon Appetit.

[Nick Martell]

And special thanks to former Heileman Brewing Company employee John Reynolds who hooked us up with the early history of Heileman and Lacroix.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

Sound design and mixing by CJ Drummler.

[Nick Martell]

Fact checking by Brian Punyon Music supervision.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

By Scott Velazquez and Jolina Garcia for Freeson Sync.

[Nick Martell]

Our theme song is Got that Feeling Again by Blackilac. Executive producers for Nick and Jack Studios are me, Nick Martel and me, Jack Revici Kramer. Executive producers for Wondery are Dave Easton, Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Aaron o' Flaherty and Marshall Lilly.

[F]

Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect for Patty. That friend was Desiree. Until one day I texted her and.

[Nick Martell]

She was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook. No Facebook anymore.

[F]

Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.

[Nick Martell]

I am a spiritual person, a magical.

[F]

Person, a witch, a gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Tourists. But who was hiding a secret from Wondery. Based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to Jack on the two missing Brazilian girl. Maybe get some undercover crew there.

[Jack Revici Kramer]

The family are freaking out. They are lost.

[F]

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.