How to Fuel Up

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Age Up – Episode: How to Fuel Up

Release Date: April 21, 2025
Host: Yasmin Tayag & Natalie Brennan
Guest: Dr. Kara Nyam Diop
Source: The Atlantic

---

1. Navigating Food Trends and Health Perceptions

[01:00 - 04:30]

In the episode's opening discussions, hosts Yasmin Tayag and Natalie Brennan delve into the ever-evolving landscape of food trends and their impact on public health perceptions. Natalie shares her bewilderment over a viral video showcasing the unconventional method of freezing cottage cheese to create "protein dippin dots."

Natalie Brennan [01:00]: "I just saw a video last week that I couldn't even tell if it was satire or not. They were freezing cottage cheese curds. Freezing them and calling it protein dippin dots."

Yasmin echoes her skepticism, emphasizing the surprising surge in cottage cheese sales over the past five years.

Yasmin Tayag [01:28]: "In the past five years, cottage cheese sales are up more than 50%."

The conversation swiftly moves to the allure of food trends as a remedy for general malaise. Yasmin posits that the rise in such trends reflects a broader societal anxiety about processed foods and their health implications.

Yasmin Tayag [03:02]: "We feel unwell for so many different reasons...changing what you eat seems like a really easy way to fix what's wrong with you."

Natalie adds her frustration over the politicization of dietary choices, highlighting the dichotomy imposed by figures like RFK Jr. in framing food consumption.

Natalie Brennan [03:59]: "It's interesting to see now these very real concerns co-opted politically."

---

2. Misconceptions in Nutrition

[05:19 - 07:59]

Bringing in expertise, Yasmin introduces Dr. Kara Nyam Diop, a nutrition scientist, to unpack common nutritional myths. Dr. Diop emphasizes the importance of individualized dietary needs across different life stages.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [05:39]: "Our nutritional needs evolve across the different stages of life...It's important to consider that aspect when making food choices."

A significant point of discussion is the pervasive hype around protein intake. Dr. Diop asserts that while protein is essential, marketing often exaggerates its necessity beyond what most individuals require.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [06:53]: "In my opinion, this is more marketing than nutrition...Most people don't need to track every gram of protein."

---

3. The Role of Plant-Based Diets

[09:53 - 12:08]

The dialogue shifts to plant-based eating, with Dr. Diop advocating its benefits while cautioning against viewing it as a panacea. She underscores that plant-based diets are generally positive but should be adapted to individual health needs.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [10:12]: "Overall, I think that plant-based eating is a positive trend...it's something I would encourage."

The hosts further explore misconceptions surrounding carbohydrates, with Dr. Diop clarifying their essential role in a balanced diet.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [10:38]: "One of the biggest misconceptions I hear about how to eat is that you shouldn't eat carbs...it's more simple than we think."

---

4. Personalized Nutrition and Lifestyle Changes

[12:23 - 20:55]

Yasmin shares her personal journey in redefining her diet post a concerning cardiologist appointment, emphasizing the importance of aligning dietary changes with personal preferences and lifestyle.

Yasmin Tayag [12:26]: "I do not miss it because it made me really conscious about the way I eat...I hate oatmeal."

Natalie supports this approach by suggesting viewing dietary adjustments as additive rather than restrictive, fostering a more sustainable and enjoyable relationship with food.

Natalie Brennan [13:26]: "Think about those foods as foods that you could be eating more of and can fill up more of your plate rather than making switches that you don't enjoy."

Dr. Diop advises practicality in maintaining a healthy diet amidst a busy lifestyle, recommending convenient options like pre-cut vegetables and frozen spinach.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [20:31]: "Frozen spinach is a must in my freezer."

---

5. Revisiting the Blue Zones Concept

[23:06 - 26:06]

The conversation critically examines the Blue Zones theory, which identifies regions where people live significantly longer lives. Dr. Saul Newman's recent research challenges the validity of these zones, suggesting inaccuracies in age reporting and the oversimplification of longevity factors.

Yasmin Tayag [24:27]: "One of his claims is that a lot of people who are said to be 100 in these places may not actually have been that old."

Natalie expresses frustration over the disconnect between dietary practices and the communal lifestyles that support longevity in Blue Zones, highlighting that diet alone isn't a silver bullet for healthy aging.

Natalie Brennan [25:28]: "They have a lot of outdoor time. They've got lots of family around...But no matter how closely you follow the diet, it doesn't lock in the lifestyle that goes with it."

---

6. Food as Medicine and Community Aspects

[26:20 - 29:03]

Dr. Diop critiques the "food as medicine" paradigm for placing undue responsibility on individuals, advocating instead for systemic changes to support healthier food environments. She emphasizes the importance of community and shared meals in fostering healthy eating habits.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [26:32]: "Food as medicine discourse focuses too much on individual responsibility and not enough on the systems that create food environment in the first place."

Natalie and Yasmin discuss the significance of communal eating experiences, sharing personal anecdotes that highlight the emotional and social dimensions of food beyond its nutritional value.

Natalie Brennan [32:02]: "The poem has given me a lot of permission to remember that food isn't always just about its ingredients. It's also about ceremony and connection and delighting in what is shared."

---

7. Cultural Perspectives on Eating

[29:03 - 30:18]

Dr. Diop shares her experiences as a Black nutritionist in the United States, highlighting the cultural disconnects and the importance of culturally relevant dietary guidelines. Her initiative, "Black Nutritionist," aims to address the specific nutritional needs and cultural practices of the African American community.

Dr. Kara Nyam Diop [30:18]: "I was introduced to me as a nutritionist, people were like, 'A nutritionist? I've never met a black nutritionist.'"

She underscores the value of integrating cultural practices into nutritional counseling to create more effective and relatable dietary strategies.

---

8. Personal Reflections and Takeaways

[30:18 - 36:55]

The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections from the hosts, intertwining literary references and personal experiences to underscore the multifaceted nature of eating. Natalie recites lines from Frank O'Hara's poem "Having a Coke with You," emphasizing that food is intrinsically linked to experiences and relationships.

Natalie Brennan [33:06]: "Having a Coke with you is even more fun...And what good does all the research when it can't capture an experience with somebody you love?"

Yasmin shares a cherished childhood memory of sharing grilled sardine sandwiches, illustrating how food memories are often more about context and connection than the food itself.

Yasmin Tayag [34:08]: "My favorite food memory is...grilled sardine sandwiches...we would be so hungry and it was just so warm and salty. And that, to me, was the happiest food moment."

Natalie emphasizes the importance of viewing food as an experience, balancing nutritional needs with the joy and connections it fosters.

Natalie Brennan [35:18]: "Food isn't always just about its ingredients. It's also about ceremony and connection and delighting in what is shared."

---

Conclusion:
In "How to Fuel Up," hosts Yasmin Tayag and Natalie Brennan, alongside expert Dr. Kara Nyam Diop, explore the intricate relationship between food trends, cultural narratives, and healthy aging. The episode advocates for a personalized, flexible approach to nutrition, emphasizing the importance of community, cultural relevance, and the experiential aspects of eating. Challenging oversimplified dietary models like the Blue Zones and "food as medicine," the conversation underscores the necessity of systemic support and culturally tailored nutritional guidance for fostering long-term health and well-being.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado. When it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss. Get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift, plus impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Out here, there's no one way of doing things, no unwritten rules, and no shortage of adventure. Because out here, the only requirement is having fun. Bank of America invites kids 6 to 18 to golf with us for a limited time. Sign them up for a free one year membership, giving them access to discounted Tetons at thousands of courses. Learn [e-mail] golf with us what would you like the power to do? Bank of America restrictions apply. Cbfa.com golf with us for complete details. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation.

[Natalie Brennan]

I just saw a video last week that I couldn't even tell if it was satire or not. They were freezing cottage cheese curds. Freezing them and calling it protein dippin dots.

[Yasmin Tayag]

That's gotta be a joke.

[Natalie Brennan]

I mean, we can only hope. I need to know how high cottage cheese sales are up. Could you look that up?

[Yasmin Tayag]

Okay. In the past five years, cottage cheese sales are up more than 50%.

[Natalie Brennan]

50%. That is so much cottage cheese.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I'm Yasmin Tayag, a staff writer with the Atlantic.

[Natalie Brennan]

And I'm Natalie Brennan, producer at the Atlantic.

[Yasmin Tayag]

This is how. Okay, Natalie, have you fallen for any food trends?

[Natalie Brennan]

All of them. All of them. I've tried basically everything except for prayer. I was plant based. Now I'm eating ground turkey like it's my job. I had a kombucha phase. I'm desperately worried about my gut health. And I. I did start buying a brand of oat milk with no seed oils. I fear.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Oh, girl. Nah, the seed oils. I've been writing about them so much in my coverage of food and health at the Atlantic. All these claims that they're toxic are not backed up by the research.

[Natalie Brennan]

I know. It's just like if someone tells me you shouldn't have processed additives in your drink, I'm like, okay, maybe that's why my stomach hurts.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I mean, I get it. I get the sense that a lot of people are worried that the food being sold to them is making them sick.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

One reason why I think food trends are so popular is because people feel bad.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

We feel unwell for so many different reasons. Like, you know, I had Covid recently and I didn't even realize it because I thought feeling so terrible was my baseline.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So changing what you eat seems like a really easy way to fix what's wrong with you, which in some ways is fair. You know, there's lots of research coming out showing that eating too much ultra processed food, which makes up the bulk of what's sold in American grocery stores, is unhealthy in a lot of specific ways.

[Natalie Brennan]

But it's interesting to see now these very real concerns co opted politically. Right. Like, I didn't imagine that criticizing ultra processed foods could have me worrying that I was aligning myself politically with Maha wellness supporters.

[Yasmin Tayag]

You're right. We're at a very interesting time right now where food and the way it's produced is being politicized.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

You know, with RFK Jr. As the health secretary, food is increasingly being framed in either of two ways. You either eat the Maha way, which is drinking raw milk and eating beef tallow and only having natural foods, or you're like a shill for big food and eat all this terrible processed stuff.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Which is confusing. Right. Because I don't feel like most people fit neatly into either of those categories and it's just not the right way to think about eating. The big problem I see is this disconnect between what people think they should be eating and what they actually need nutritionally. And I think the popularity of food trends shows how much we've lost sight of what we actually need.

[Natalie Brennan]

I do find when it comes to food trends, everything is very black and white. We're often told that each nutrition trend is the best way to eat. And it all seems very one size fits all. And also I constantly then feel confused because the advice seems like it's always changing.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I spoke to Dr. Kara Nyam Diop about this. She's a nutrition scientist and a coach who, who is really focused on breaking down the rules of what people think they should eat and instead teach them how to feed themselves. Over the course of a life.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Our nutritional needs evolve across the different stages of life and our body shifts from growth to maintenance and eventually preservation. In childhood, nutrition is all about growth and development. So kids gonna need more calories, protein, key nutrients to support their rapidly growing bodies. Then during adolescence you also have growth, but you have to consider hormonal changes. And then there is adulthood when the focus moves to maintaining health, preventing chronic conditions. And then you have older adulthood when you have some real serious physiological changes that impact eating. Appetite can decrease, sense of taste and smell can fade. And so it's important to consider that aspect when making food choices.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I find that the conversation around eating these days is so focused on getting more of a certain supplement or mineral or nutrient.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

I agree.

[Yasmin Tayag]

You know, one trend that really stands out to me is this obsession with getting more protein. Everywhere you go, you're getting added protein. I've even seen baby food with added protein. What do you make of this?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

As a nutritionist, I think protein is important. Yes. It plays a critical role in maintaining muscle, supporting metabolism, or contributing to how satisfied we feel after meals. But then there's the marketing. So in my opinion, this is more marketing than nutrition. And there's some exaggeration happening. Most people don't need to track every gram of protein. And I honestly feel we gave fruit and vegetable the same level of hype and attention because this is something that most Americans aren't getting enough of those. So I would say, yes, protein is essential, but also it's a trend, and trends comes with noise.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So who might actually need more protein?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

So we know that people who exercise a lot, athlete, they definitely need more protein. Protein. So depending on your exercise level, now everybody's talking about building muscle mass. So I would say that's definitely a moment where you should be maybe more intentional about your protein intake. Also, you know, I would say when pregnancy, postpartum phase or after a surgery or an injuries may be moment where you need to be more intentional about what you eat. The growth phase for kids and teenagers, I think it's important to be intentional, but at the same time, being intentional about eating healthy is enough.

[Yasmin Tayag]

And I think people understand that, at least in theory. But it's so easy to get swept up in food trends because there are just so many protein, like we talked about, probiotics, collagen, adaptogens, you know, they become popular and then they fade out. So what do you think is behind these shifts?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

With social media, there's a little bit too much information. It's a mix of, you know, companies trying to push their products and people interest growing and, you know, a high understanding of how food can be healing, how food can actually impact our health. And I think that's. That's the perfect environment for trends to be popular. One thing I would say, and I always say to the people I work with, is to try to disconnect from that a little bit and think about, okay, what do you actually like? What do you enjoy eating? What seems Difficult. What have you tried and was wasn't possible? What do you do without thinking that is actually a good habit that you need to keep? And what do you need to work a little? What habits you need to implement in your life? When you think about nutrition recommendation, it's always sold as a one size fits all.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

And I get it. You know, it's easier because you, you need to give the better recommendation for the maximum amount of people. But it doesn't work this way. You know, we have different realities, different preferences, and so I think it's important to adjust.

[Yasmin Tayag]

One trend that stands out to me is plant based eating, which generally seems good. And I've seen it intersect with the protein trend in that plant based protein is supposedly healthier than animal based protein. How should we be thinking about this?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Overall, I think that plant based eating is a positive trend. I will not fight against this one. But I understand it. It's confusing and it's something that's very positive for health. So it's something I would encour.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah, it's definitely confusing to view food in such granular terms, but that's how lots of people conceptualize it. What's one of the biggest misconceptions you hear about how to eat?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Honestly, one of the biggest consumption. The first thing I'm thinking now is you shouldn't eat carbs. That's one of the things I hear the most and I really breathe and try to explain to people why carbs are actually important. And you know, if you've been eating carbs most of your life, you'll be fine. So that's one. And if you like white rice, just eat the white rice. Add more veggies on the side. You know, it's more simple than we think. But I guess people need someone to remind them that my parents are gonna.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Love hearing you say that if they want to eat the white rice, they can just eat the white rice. I have been trying to get them to switch to brown rice for years.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Yes, that's a big question. I know my clients love to hear that. They just love me. Just, just when I say that you can eat the white rice and you can add fiber in other ways, you know, doesn't have to be through brown rice. So I would say to me, the, the other misconception is that you should be very focused on your calorie intake. I'm not saying your calorie intakes is not important. You know, eating enough or eating too much, it needs to be addressed by all these diets. Do you think they're really focused on, you know, health? My understanding is that they really focus on appearance, looking a certain way.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Natalie. As you know, I'm in the middle of trying to figure out a long term healthy diet for myself after a recent cardiologist appointment. Yeah, yeah. She looked at my blood work and was like, okay, something has to change here.

[Natalie Brennan]

I kind of miss your heart monitor, though.

[Yasmin Tayag]

You miss me being a cyborg?

[Natalie Brennan]

It was kind of cute.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I do not miss it because it made me really conscious about the way I eat. You know, when I was younger, the only thing I really thought about was calories. Calories are so ingrained into our food consciousness from such an early age.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

But now my doctor is worried about my blood pressure and my blood sugar and my cholesterol, so I'm having to think about reducing salt, switching to whole grain bread, even eating oatmeal for fiber. I hate oatmeal.

[Natalie Brennan]

Actually. No one said you have to eat oatmeal.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I know. And actually, Dr. Niem Diep is helping me rethink this new shift in eating. When she was talking about healthy ways of eating and was like, what do you actually like? What do you enjoy eating? That kind of reframed my approach to my doctor's recommendations.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah. I think it could be really helpful to think about this as additive rather than restrictive. So what are the foods that you enjoy that delight you that still fit into the recommendations that you were given? To be thinking about those foods as foods that you could be eating more of and can fill up more of your plate rather than making switches that you don't enjoy.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Right. This is a diet I'm gonna have to keep up for my life.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

It's meant to prevent chronic diseases. They are in my genes.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

But I can't be eating oatmeal forever if I hate it.

[Natalie Brennan]

No.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So now I'm thinking about ways I might already be getting fiber and how I can just do more of that. I mean, I already eat a lot of beans. Maybe there's just gonna be more of them in my future.

[Natalie Brennan]

I've got some good bean recipes for you.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Please send them over.

[Natalie Brennan]

I think that it's interesting. In American culture, there are two ways that people tend to embrace big changes in their eating habits. One is for personal efforts, for weight loss, and the other is when a physician says they have a medical need to change their diet. We don't have a great understanding of how to embrace smaller, more gradual, age specific changes as we age up.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Right. Like Dr. Nyam Jap mentioned that our nutritional needs change as we get older. But I've never thought about that. I never saw my parents thinking about that. They eat the same way now as they did 30 years ago. I've been doing a lot of research on this for my own personal health. And there's a study from Harvard and a few other universities that came out in March that I found to be really helpful.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah?

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah. It looked at 30 years of data on the food habits of over 100,000 middle aged adults. Whoa.

[Natalie Brennan]

What did it find?

[Yasmin Tayag]

Okay, so getting more plant based foods with low to moderate intake of healthy animal based foods was linked to a higher likelihood of healthy aging, which they defined as reaching age 70 without any major chronic diseases and having good cognitive, physical and mental health.

[Natalie Brennan]

Okay, so backing up Dr. Niem Diop's claim that plant based.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Not just a trend, not a trend, just a healthy part of a long term diet. But back to the Harvard study, one thing that I thought was really interesting was that the study looked at eight different healthy dietary patterns in midlife and all of them were associated with healthy aging. Huh. Which suggests there's no single best way to eat.

[Natalie Brennan]

Okay. So healthy diets can be adapted to fit individual needs and preferences. There's no set rulebook. Amazing news for you. And the oatmeal.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Oh my God.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

You're not supposed to eat the same ways all your life. Your tastes are going to change. And just try to try to think about the way you eat as something dynamic and flexible. You try. You're going to do your best to eat in a way that's aligned with your values and your needs most of the time. But there's no perfect ways of eating.

[Yasmin Tayag]

What you're describing sounds to me a lot like intuitive eating. You know, this idea that you should eat what your body tells you rather than try to control your diet. What are your thoughts on it?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

I think it's an interesting approach. It's definitely inspiring. However, I'm not aligned on every single aspect because I think that sometimes, depending on your circumstances, you do need to think a little bit more about how you're going to eat. I felt intuitive eating is really geared toward someone who has financial privilege. When you can afford not to really think about how you're going to eat tomorrow, when you can afford to focus on your inner hunger and fullness without, you know, because you know you're going to have food all the time.

[Yasmin Tayag]

I sometimes hear intuitive eating positioned as the polar opposite of traditional diets, you know, with strict limits on what and when and how much you can eat, which are still so popular. How does this show up with the people you work with?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

So my clients are cereal dieters. They come from years and years, decades of dieting and cycling between, you know, from one diet to another. So I'm very familiar with that and I think that's, you know, I understand when you think about it, nutrition can feel overwhelming and so it may be difficult to navigate. And so a diet is a structure, it feels safe. So that's why people are attracted to this diet. But I'm trying to demonstrate they can trust their intuition to nourish themselves.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So how do you teach people how to adopt that approach to eating?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

I try to not see things black and white. You know, you have to follow a set of rules to nourish yourself. It's more nuances of gray. These are, you know, you have some principles that are true in nutrition and then how to make this a regular part of your life without being obsessed with it. What are your struggles? So I'm, you know, it's really personalized, I would say, but the first step is, okay, when people come to me, they failed, quote, unquote, failed so many diets and so they feel they are a failure. And so the first step is showing them they have every they know and they need to focus on what they need instead of those rules that don't that are not a good fit.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So what would it look like for me, for example, to be build healthy eating habits around my needs? I'm in my late 30s and I have no time.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Yes, yes, we're about the same age and I do feel that for myself as well. You probably have young kids to take care of, you have aging parents, you have a full time job, you're very busy. So I think the first thing I'm thinking about is, you know, keeping that in mind when I provide recommendation. Sometimes I hear people whole food only. I love, I love that. But is it actually doable me when I'm thinking about, you know, that reality I'm thinking about? You're gonna. Let's go to what's practical. The frozen section, pre cut vegetables. It needs to be easy. We don't have much time. So I think time management is a big part of nutrition at that age.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Frozen spinach is a must in my freezer.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Yes, frozen spinach. I'm being practical, but I don't think there should be a big change in the way you eat unless you have a condition that the doctor has identified. But you know, I would say if you follow the general recommendation. You shouldn't have to worry about those details.

[Yasmin Tayag]

We're going to take a short break, but when we come back, why is.

[Natalie Brennan]

Everyone re talking about the Blue Zones right now? If you're enjoying this podcast, you should know that you can get more from your favorite Atlantic voices. When you subscribe to the Atlantic, a subscription gives you access to all our award winning journalism and you can listen to as many articles as you want online or in the Atlantic app. Your subscription helps fuel our journalism online, in the magazine and on our podcasts, so subscribe today at theatlantic.com podsub.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebglis. After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin. And most of those people maintained skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Advertiser]

Lebricizumab, a 250 mg per 2 ML injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Eglis. Before starting Ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a pair parasitic infection Searching for real relief?

[Yasmin Tayag]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epglist.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Advertiser]

Spring is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Ubereats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken Parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box fan? Happily yes. A day of sunshine?

[Yasmin Tayag]

No.

[Advertiser]

A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets Product availability may vary by Regency app. For details.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yasmin, you know, we've been talking a lot here about not focusing on any one specific diet. Right. But instead being flexible and dynamic and listening to your own food preferences. And, you know, it's funny, because I'm seeing the Blue Zones pop up again everywhere right now, which lots of people think of as maybe the key to how to be eating healthy. But now that idea is being challenged. Right. The Atlantic just published an episode on the podcast Good on Paper about this. I'm seeing article after article. Catch us up. Why is everyone retalking about the Blue Zones right now?

[Yasmin Tayag]

The idea of the Blue Zones has been around for over two decades now, and it's based on this idea that there are these zones in the world where people live to be 100 or older.

[Natalie Brennan]

Right.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Like Okinawa, Japan, Sardinia, Italy, Loma Linda, California, and Ikaria in Greece. And what people have really focused on is what people in these places eat. Lots of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes. And the idea has turned into a whole brand that now sells Blue Zone food, cooking classes, even skincare now.

[Natalie Brennan]

Right.

[Yasmin Tayag]

But the reason why it's in the news again is because this researcher, Saul Newman, looked into data on extreme old age and argued that the Blue Zone concept is really sketchy. Like, one of his claims is that a lot of people who are said to be 100 in these places may not actually have been that old.

[Natalie Brennan]

Whoa.

[Yasmin Tayag]

So it's all raised some doubts about the entire concept altogether.

[Natalie Brennan]

I mean, I watched the Netflix special and I started eating more beans and trying to walk more. But mostly I just felt angry that I don't live in a community where the practices being discussed were the norm. That's really the biggest takeaway. Right. Like, I'm not sure I can bean my way into a new approach of urban planning and then get centennial status.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Exactly. We focus so much on what people in these places eat, which is great.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Basically the Mediterranean diet. But what stands out to me is that these people, whether they're actually 100 or just very old, they also live in societies that are different from the typical American.

[Natalie Brennan]

Exactly.

[Yasmin Tayag]

They have a lot of outdoor time. They've got lots of family around, their food is local. They have time to nap. Like, if I could nap every day, I would have a way better shot at living to 100. But that's the frustrating thing about the popularity of the Blue Zones. No matter how closely you follow the diet, it doesn't lock in the lifestyle that goes with it.

[Natalie Brennan]

So then, because what we Eat is one of the only things we feel like we can control. We expect it to do a lot of things for us. That's a lot of pressure to put on our food.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah, that reminds me of this concept that's become super popular in the nutrition space, Food as medicine, which I asked Dr. Niemgiop about.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

So food as medicine. I think first I'd like to define what it means because for probably what you just described is the belief that eating certain food can prevent or heal diseases. And so, you know, I'm a nutritionist because I believe in the healing power of food. I do believe food can support energy, immunity, mood and long term health. But my issue is that food as medicine discourse is, is that it framed food as an individual problem. It focuses too much on individual responsibility and not enough on the systems that create food environment in the first place. And so to me, sometime it can shift the attention away from the policy change like investing in equitable food system, addressing structural inequalities. So yes, I support the concept, but only if it's framed as part of a broader solution that includes systemic change.

[Yasmin Tayag]

It does seem like there's a lot of pressure on the individual to make food choices for themselves. But there are important communal aspects to eating too, right? How does that factor into how you discuss food choices with your clients?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

When we talk about cooking, we immediately understand the community or the sharing aspect of cooking, you know, cooking for others. But when we talk about nutrition, it's always framed in an individualistic frame that you have to eat this for your health. But when you actually bring the two together, you realize that sometimes nourishing yourself, you can have support. So it's not only you, it's the support system that can help you make better choices. And you know, if I think about just kids nutrition, my own example, something, you know, when you work with kids, especially toddlers, we talk a lot about picky eating and something I've noticed and we know kids tend to imitate their parents and in my husband culture we tend to eat in a communal plate. And what I've noticed is that my kids eat much more fruits and vegetable when we eat in a communal plate. So when we eat together than when they and I give them a plate on their own. So these are strategies also to just eat healthier. So I was trained in France where culture, community aspect, eating around the table are embedded in our understanding of nutrition. I don't think here it is as much, but it's definitely something I would focus on.

[Yasmin Tayag]

How does it affect how you Study food habits here. Is it like a superpower where you can see exactly what's going wrong here?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Yes, a little bit. So, you know, I'm at the interface of different food culture. And so that being at the interface gives me that superpower. Not necessarily coming from outside, but just understanding that culture and the way food connects us is so important. It gives me that superpower. I have to say, it has been a cultural shock for me when I moved to in the United States a few years ago. But when it comes to, you know, finding other ways or finding other solution or innovating, it's definitely an asset. And to me, it's very interesting, for example, when people feel so guilty because they eat after a certain time, after 8pm when in my country, where I grew up, dinner is at 8:30. To me, it's fascinating and very interesting, but it's one of the reason why I love what I do. And it triggers some very interesting conversations. It's helped me think about different options when it comes to healthy eating.

[Yasmin Tayag]

You know, your handle on social media is black nutritionist. Can you tell me about that choice?

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

When I moved into the United States, I moved into a majority African American area. And what happened is every time, you know, I was introducing myself, saying I was a nutritionist, people were like, a nutritionist. I never met a black nutritionist. And I heard that so many times that I realized it was actually something to be a black nutritionist. It meant something to people. I learned after, you know, that, you know, there are only 3% of dietitians and nutritionists are black nutritionists. And of course, you know, I went through the nutrition curriculum. I always felt a little bit like an outsider. I always felt that, you know, that, let's say focus on the Mediterranean diet was not necessarily super smart. I always felt that way. And I saw an opportunity to say, okay, let's build something and let's address some of the questions that are important to us. And then that's how I decided, okay, this is actually who I am. I'm a black woman. I love nutrition. I love food. I have the training and I have cultural understanding to do something special for my community.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Well, thank you so much for this amazing chat.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Thank you so much.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Really lovely to talk to you.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yes. I think this conversation has helped me think a lot about trusting my own intuition that, you know, I know what is healthy, I know what foods work for me, and that there's no singular food trend or ingredient that is going to revolutionize my diet for healthy aging.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Same.

[Natalie Brennan]

But you Know everyone has their own relationship to food. And for me, something that has been really helpful in eliminating food guilt or constant obsession is thinking about food sometimes as an experience. Do you know the poet Frank O'Hara?

[Yasmin Tayag]

I know that you are sitting across from me in a T shirt with Frank Ohara's face on it.

[Natalie Brennan]

Correct. I'm obsessed with him, I can tell. And a big reason for that is because his poem Having a Coke with youh, which has become kind of a.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Psalm for me, I don't think I know that one.

[Natalie Brennan]

There's a recording of him reading the poem himself, and I've listened to it so many times that without even trying, I've memorized the poem. He begins by saying, having a Coke with you is even more fun.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Going to St. Sebastian Irun on die Biarritz Bayonne, or being sick to my stomach on the Traversehra de Grace Gracia in Barcelona, Partly because in your orange shirt you look like a better, happier St. Sebastian.

[Natalie Brennan]

Partly because of my love for you.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Partly because of your love for yogurt.

[Natalie Brennan]

And then he lists all the things that sharing a soda with his loved one is better than. And, you know, he takes it one step further. He begins to question, what good is all the research when it can't capture an experience with somebody you love? The works of the Impressionists, Futurism, Michelangelo, none of it compares.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

And what good does all the research of the Impressionists do them when they never got the right person to stand.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Near the tree when the sun sank? None of them is as good as sharing a drink with someone you love.

[Natalie Brennan]

Exactly.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me. And I think it's important for us to remember that, you know, of course, what we eat is important for our nutrition and our health and our lifespan, but it also matters when and where and with whom you're eating, right? Like, you could have the most amazing, plant based, nutritionally adequate diet, but if you're eating it alone, alone all the time, that's. That's not going to be great for you. When I think about the food memories that are most important to me, they honestly have less to do with the food than with the context, right? Like, my favorite food memory is from when I was like 7 years old. I was swimming in my cousin's outdoor pool in the Philippines with all of my little cousins, and one of the aunties had one of those grilled cheese makers by the side of the pool, and she was just whipping out these little grilled sardine sandwiches and just handing them out to us fresh out of the pool and we would be so hungry and it was just so warm and salty. And that, to me was the happiest food moment.

[Natalie Brennan]

And that's a lot coming from you, a foodie.

[Yasmin Tayag]

Yeah. You know, give me the sardines on toast.

[Natalie Brennan]

Yeah. Or, you know, for me, every once in a while, a Coke. The poem has given me a lot of permission to remember that food isn't always just about its ingredients. It's also about ceremony and connection and delighting in what is shared.

[Yasmin Tayag]

It seems they were all cheated of.

[Dr. Kara Nyam Diop]

Some marvelous experience, which is not going.

[Yasmin Tayag]

To go wasted on me, which is why I'm telling you about it. The marvelous experience of sharing a meal. Not wasted on me either, Mr. O'Hara.

[Natalie Brennan]

And I will tell you and tell you and tell you about it.

[Yasmin Tayag]

That's all for this episode of how to Age Up. This episode was hosted by me, Yasmin Tayag, and co hosted and produced by Natalie Brennan. Our editors are Claudina Baid and Jocelyn Frank. Fact Check by Ena Alvarado. Our engineer is Rob Smirciak. Rob also composed some of the music for this show. The executive producer of Audio is Claudina Baid, and the managing editor of Audio is Andrea Valdez.

[Natalie Brennan]

Next time on how to Age up.

[Yasmin Tayag]

While we are the most age diverse society we've ever been, we're simultaneously the most age segregated. What we can learn from intergenerational partnerships to age up together. We'll be back with you on Monday.

[Advertiser]

To preserve democracy, one has to believe in it. To believe in democracy, one has to understand it, where it came from, how it works, what's true, what's not true, what others did before you, how it could be better, how to make a difference. I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic. I'm starting a new show where each week I'll dig deep into the big questions people have about our politics and our society. I'll explain the progress that the peoples of the democratic world have made together and remind you that the American idea is worth defending. Listen to or watch the David Frum show wherever you get your podcasts.