Podcast Title: How to Age Up
Host/Author: The Atlantic
Episode: How to Know What's Real: How to be Immortal Online
Release Date: June 17, 2024

Introduction

In the thought-provoking episode titled "How to Know What's Real: How to be Immortal Online," hosts Andrea Valdez and Megan Garber delve into the intricate relationship between modern technology and our evolving cultural narratives surrounding reality and immortality. The discussion is further enriched by insights from Hannah Reichel, an associate professor of Reformed theology at Princeton Theological Seminary, who specializes in theologies of the digital. This episode navigates through metaphors like Ouija boards to complex concepts such as the "right to be forgotten," exploring how our digital age mirrors and diverges from traditional spiritual and religious frameworks.

Technology as a Modern Oracle: Ouija Boards and the Internet

Andrea Valdez initiates the conversation by drawing an intriguing parallel between the Ouija board and the internet:

"[01:01] Andrea Valdez: So the Ouija board was a very controversial toy in my house growing up... I figured if they could create a board game like Monopoly, that the Ouija board must not be that dangerous."

This analogy serves as a foundation for understanding the web's perceived omniscience. Megan Garber adds depth by explaining the psychological underpinnings:

"[02:43] Megan Garber: [...] Ouija boards work through something called the ideometer effect... Which is actually a nice metaphor, I think, for the web and really for so much of what we've been talking about this season of the show."

They explore how both the Ouija board and the internet function as tools that provide answers, satisfying the human craving for knowledge and certainty. This comparison illustrates the human tendency to attribute almost mystical qualities to technologies that are, in reality, deeply rooted in human design and limitation.

Theologies of the Digital: Faith and Technology

Introducing Hannah Reichel, the discussion shifts to the intersection of theology and technology. Megan Garber outlines Reichel's expertise:

"[03:18] Megan Garber: [...] Professor Reichl has a particular interest in what they call theologies of the digital... questions about how humans interact with a higher power and apply that to digital technologies like social media and AI."

Reichel articulates a profound connection between technological advancements and theological concepts:

"[04:56] Hannah Reichel: If the 20th century was the century of power, we might say the 21st century is the century of knowledge... This intersects with human freedom and agency."

She points out that just as religious thought has historically grappled with concepts of omniscience and free will, modern theology now extends these inquiries to encompass digital technologies. This perspective frames technology not merely as tools but as entities that evoke spiritual and ethical considerations traditionally reserved for discussions about the divine.

The Dual Forces of Mercy and Justice in Technology

The conversation progresses to explore the balance between mercy and justice within the digital realm. Reichel introduces the concept of "right to be forgotten" laws as a secular embodiment of mercy:

"[14:16] Megan Garber: [...] effort to bring some of that clarity to a secular context and to the web. It's trying to answer this very broad and quasi religious question of, you know, when the web remembers everything, how can we create mechanisms on it that will encourage us to forget."

Andrea Valdez builds on this by linking it to religious notions:

"[15:33] Andrea Valdez: [...] trying to codify into law this ancient and sort of religious notion of mercy."

The hosts and Reichel discuss how these laws attempt to reconcile the internet's permanence with the human need for forgiveness and the ability to move forward from past mistakes. This dialogue underscores the tension between enduring digital records and the impermanent nature of human life and relationships.

The Finite Reality of the Infinite Web

Addressing the misconception of the internet's boundless nature, Reichel emphasizes the physical constraints that underpin digital infrastructures:

"[19:30] Hannah Reichel: The technological resources, we should not forget that they're also limited, right? [...] rare earths, server plants, metals, energy."

Megan Garber reflects on this by contrasting the metaphorical perception of the web with its tangible limitations:

"[20:16] Megan Garber: Though the cloud in reality is a series of hulking server farms scattered across the landscape, we experience the data it holds as almost metaphysical."

This segment illuminates the paradox of the internet as both an expansive, seemingly magical entity and a system anchored in finite, resource-dependent infrastructure. It challenges listeners to reconsider the sustainability and ethical implications of our digital dependencies.

Resurrection and Legacy in the Digital Age

The ethical dimensions of digital legacy and resurrection are scrutinized as Andrea Valdez introduces examples of holographic recreations:

"[26:09] Andrea Valdez: [...] technologies I'm convinced will have wider ramifications than we're aware of is this idea of resurrection. Like, Megan, do you remember that hologram of Tupac performing at Coachella?"

The hosts discuss the unsettling aspects of digitally resurrecting deceased individuals, questioning the morality and long-term effects of such technologies:

"[27:06] Megan Garber: [...] a chatbot [...] can be error prone [...] one woman [...] was told by him that he was in hell."

This discussion highlights the ethical dilemmas surrounding digital immortality, including issues of consent, accuracy, and the potential emotional harm to individuals interacting with artificially resurrected personas.

Defining Reality and Spirituality in the Web Era

Exploring the philosophical aspects, Reichel challenges listeners to reconsider the essence of reality in a digitally mediated world:

"[31:34] Hannah Reichel: [...] real experiences. They're actual relationships that I have formed on social media [...] real is what has an impact, what makes a difference in our lives."

Megan Garber connects this to community and faith, suggesting that genuine human connections transcend digital facades:

"[32:22] Megan Garber: [...] community itself and the relationships that we build with each other, our reality, in this very direct and tangible and reliable way, they're the things we can trust even when so much else can feel unsteady."

The episode underscores the importance of tangible human interactions amid the pervasive influence of digital technologies, advocating for a balanced understanding of what constitutes reality and meaningful connections.

Conclusion: Navigating Reality and Immortality Online

In the concluding sections, the hosts and Reichel reflect on the quest for meaning and permanence in an ever-evolving digital landscape:

"[35:30] Andrea Valdez: [...] marching towards the idea of forever. That's what's so appealing. [...] the Internet is forever. I mean, that's not quite right."

They ponder the limitations of technological immortality and emphasize the inevitability of endings, both in human life and digital existence:

"[36:18] Andrea Valdez: [...] something is real not because it's tangible or material necessarily, but because it will end."

The episode closes by contemplating the balance between embracing technological advancements and acknowledging their inherent limitations, encouraging listeners to seek authenticity and connection in a world where the lines between the physical and digital continue to blur.

Notable Quotes

• Andrea Valdez [01:01]: "If they could create a board game like Monopoly, that the Ouija board must not be that dangerous."

• Megan Garber [02:43]: "Ouija boards work through something called the ideometer effect... Which is actually a nice metaphor for the web."

• Hannah Reichel [04:56]: "If the 20th century was the century of power, we might say the 21st century is the century of knowledge."

• Hannah Reichel [14:16]: "They're trying to codify into law this ancient and sort of religious notion of mercy."

• Hannah Reichel [19:30]: "The technological resources... are also limited, right? Rare earths, server plants, metals, energy."

• Hannah Reichel [31:34]: "Real is what has an impact, what makes a difference in our lives."

• Andrea Valdez [36:18]: "Maybe something is real not because it's tangible or material necessarily, but because it will end."

Closing Thoughts

"How to Know What's Real: How to be Immortal Online" offers a comprehensive exploration of how digital technologies reshape our understanding of reality, legacy, and spirituality. By intertwining theological perspectives with technological discourse, the episode invites listeners to critically evaluate the role of the internet and AI in their lives, urging a mindful approach to the pursuit of knowledge and immortality in the digital age.