🫡 “Future-proof your career” — Corporate Natalie & Ross “Corp” Pomerantz interview Nick & Jack

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Future-proof your Career"

Episode: 🫡 “Future-proof your career” — Corporate Natalie & Ross “Corp” Pomerantz interview Nick & Jack
Released on: August 15, 2025
Podcast: The Best One Yet by Nick & Jack Studios
Hosts: Corporate Natalie & Ross “Corp” Pomerantz
Guests: Nick & Jack from The Best One Yet

---

Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Best One Yet, Corporate Natalie and Ross “Corp” Pomerantz engage in a deep conversation with Nick and Jack, aiming to provide listeners with strategies to future-proof their careers amidst evolving economic landscapes and technological advancements.

Understanding Tariffs and Their Impact

The discussion kicks off with an exploration of tariffs, a topic garnering significant attention in business circles.

• Corporate Natalie poses the question, “What is a tariff? What does it do?” at [02:29], setting the stage for a comprehensive breakdown.

• Nick elaborates at [02:35]: “Tariffs are essentially taxes imposed on imported goods, intended to protect domestic industries by making foreign products more expensive.”

Ross provides a relatable analogy at [14:02]: “Think of tariffs as a bouncer at the door of a country, charging different fees based on where you come from.”

Future-Proofing Your Career

As the conversation shifts to career stability, the hosts delve into strategies for navigating uncertain job markets.

• Nick emphasizes the importance of maintaining a solid job: “If you have a stable position, it’s wise to stay put during economic fluctuations.” ([22:25])

• Jack introduces the concept of “nepopreneurship” at [23:35], highlighting a growing trend where individuals join family-owned businesses as a safer career transition during turbulent times.

Ross adds at [25:07]: “One of the best strategies is to invest consistently, regardless of market conditions. This reduces the stress of timing the market.”

Leveraging AI in the Workplace

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the integration of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in professional settings.

• Corporate Natalie raises a pertinent question at [31:22]: “How do you guys see the job market being affected by the proliferation of these AI agents now, which can do a ton of things?”

• Ross responds by referencing an interview with the Duolingo CEO: “AI isn’t going to take jobs outright, but those who leverage AI effectively will have a competitive edge.” ([33:08])

• Jack advises on adopting AI tools: “Stop Googling and start using ChatGPT. It’s a game changer for enhancing productivity.” ([40:07])

Investing Advice for Stability

The podcast navigates the realm of investments, offering practical advice tailored to both novice and seasoned investors.

• Ross shares a personal strategy at [55:01]: “Instead of trying to buy the dip, consider a consistent investment schedule, like buying on the first of every month.”

• Jack reinforces the value of long-term investments: “Early in your career, invest in companies you believe in and hold them for the long run.” ([57:29])

Side Hustles and Entrepreneurship

Exploring alternative income streams, Nick and Jack provide actionable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs.

• Jack recommends formalizing side projects by creating an LLC: “If you’re starting a side hustle, make it a legitimate business to leverage tax benefits and professional credibility.” ([47:52])

• Corporate Natalie adds practical tips: “Consider industries that are recession-proof, like funeral homes or laundromat nightclubs, as they offer stability even during economic downturns.” ([25:17])

Notable Quotes

• Ross Pomerantz at [22:35]: “Startups are always risky. Ensure you have savings or another safety net before diving in.”

• Nick at [30:55]: “Using AI shouldn’t be considered cheating. It’s about enhancing your capabilities.”

• Jack at [43:40]: “Be a great prompt engineer by being specific and demanding excellence from AI tools.”

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation among the hosts and guests, highlighting the importance of adaptability and continuous learning in career development. Both parties encourage listeners to embrace AI tools, pursue consistent investment strategies, and consider side hustles as viable paths to financial and professional resilience.

Final Thoughts: This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for professionals seeking to navigate the complexities of modern career landscapes. By dissecting economic policies like tariffs, advocating for strategic career moves, and embracing technological advancements, Nick and Jack, alongside Corporate Natalie and Ross, equip listeners with the knowledge to future-proof their careers effectively.

---

For more insights on business trends and career strategies, tune into "The Best One Yet" podcast by Nick & Jack Studios.

Transcript

[Jack]

This is Jack, and it's still just Jack again. For those who haven't heard from yesterday's pod, Nick has viral meningitis and was hospitalized. I talked to him yesterday, though, and he was in amazing spirits. For 15 minutes. He and I were catching up with each other and chuckling about Seinfeld episodes. It was amazing to hear his voice. They decided to keep him at the hospital for one more day, but he's in good hands and is getting the meds he needs. I just ordered his favorite chicken soup to be delivered to the hospital from his favorite restaurant. And here's some amazing news that I was thrilled about. His sister is flying in to help take care of Nick's son, Maxie. As you know, Nick's wife Molly is pregnant, so Katie flying in is just an MVP performance. Shout out to her. Also, Nick told me he was so grateful for the hundreds of comments you all left for him yesterday. We are both overwhelmed with appreciation for how much you care about us and for the relationship we have. I mean, this is more than just podcaster, listener. This is something different. And thank you for showing us that yesterday. So today we're going to publish an episode from the Demoted Podcast that Nick and I were interviewed on this spring. You've probably seen Corporate Natalie on your socials. She satirizes office culture, as well as that Bachelorette weekend that she's still probably recovering from. And you've seen Corporate Bro, too. His name is Ross Pomerantz. This man invented the funniest acronym of all time. You ready for this? Sadness. Sales are dope. Never ever stop selling sadness. That actually turned into a movie, by the way. We interviewed them last year and they interviewed us. Clearly, we're huge fans. And in this episode of the Demoted Podcast, we talk about how to use AI in the workplace. We go full Econ 101 on how tariffs actually work, both literally and through analogy. And we also share Nick's and my origin story, which includes near firings of both of us. And that boyfriend that Natalie mentions in this episode, it's now her fiance. Congrats to her. So when you're done listening, follow the Demoted podcast and Natalie and Ross on social media. We put all their links and handles right here in the show Notes. Nick is extremely funny in this episode, by the way. I just finished listening to it and man, do I miss that guy. All right, let's hit the show.

[Nick]

This week on the pod, we have the host of the best one yet.

[Corporate Natalie]

What is a tariff? What does it do?

[Nick]

What's A tariff?

[Corporate Natalie]

Everyone's talking about tariffs. What even is a tariff?

[Nick]

How does it impact me? And should I stop buying coffees?

[Corporate Natalie]

We're bringing on two of the smartest minds in news, tech and pop culture.

[Nick]

They're the host of the T Boy podcast, the best one yet.

[Corporate Natalie]

And they're going to teach us all how to future proof your career. Demoted.

[Jack]

Now a quick word from our sponsors.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Airbnb Yetis Our show actually started as a side hustle over 10 years ago. It began in secret outside of our bank jobs.

[Jack]

We were worried we'd get fired, so we didn't tell our bosses and we even left our names off the website.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Now that was our side hustle, a media startup. But there are other side hustles that.

[Jack]

Are a lot less risky than that and that have 0% chance of getting you fired. Like being a host on Airbnb.

[Ross Pomerantz]

In this economy, it's a fun and rewarding way to make money off the thing. You're already paying for your house or your apartment.

[Jack]

I've hosted two previous apartments and my current chalet on Airbnb.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And when no one's using it, why not welcome a family, a couple that just got engaged?

[Jack]

You already have an Airbnb. You just didn't realize it yet.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host we are.

[Jack]

Supported by vital proteins Yeties.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides is a supplement that has four benefits all in one, helping support healthy hair, skin, nails, bones and joints.

[Jack]

And I'm a proud power user. I put the mocha or chocolate flavored vital proteins collagen in every mug of coffee I've drank so far this year.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I threw some into a pancake mix because, like, why the heck not, Jack?

[Jack]

By taking collagen peptides daily, you can help support your hair, skin, nail, bone and joint health.

[Ross Pomerantz]

So get 20% off by going to vitalproteins.com and entering promo code T Boy at checkout.

[Jack]

That's vital proteins.com promo code T Boy for 20% off.

[Ross Pomerantz]

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Corporate Natalie]

What's up, motorheads? It's good to have you all here. We're back in the stewed. Back in the bean bags. We got guests today.

[Nick]

We do.

[Corporate Natalie]

We got some of the best guests. The best guests yet.

[Nick]

Precisely. If you haven't listened to the Best One yet podcast, we. Why don't you pause this right now and go do it.

[Corporate Natalie]

Go do it. Every single day, they are bringing you 20 minutes of the three most important news stories that you need to know.

[Nick]

Nick and Jack are what Ross and I aspire to be.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yes.

[Nick]

In podcasting, they release a daily episode. We were joking at the end of the podcast that they're their own LLM. They take in all sources of information from news, finance, pop culture, tech news. Bring it all into the three headlines. You should know every single day.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. A lot of people are so overwhelmed about what publications, what sources should I read? Hey, just go listen to these guys. They got you covered.

[Nick]

We wanted to bring them on specifically to talk about future proofing your career. Everything we're seeing in our dear demoteds, our corporate confessions, is this kind of fear of AI tariffs, the economy, the recession, what's happening and what should I look out for as a working professional?

[Corporate Natalie]

And as we mentioned, these two guys are very smart, and they're. Given that they are reading the news, they are consuming all this information every single day. They're some of the most well equipped to answer these questions.

[Nick]

We're recording on April 29th, so a lot can change in the next two weeks before this is released. But we're hoping to talk about looking ahead in your next year, your next five years of your career, even. What should you be doing?

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. And using some of the stories that these guys have researched in the past to inform their decisions and our decisions. So with that, let's welcome Nick and Jack from T boy to demoted.

[Nick]

Nick and Jack, we're so happy to have you here. And, Nick, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention our sunrise kayak together in Hawaii.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I mean, the vacation of vacations, wasn't it, Natalie?

[Jack]

What are you guys talking about?

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, did you guys just see each other on the beach like, one day or what?

[Nick]

There was.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Actually, yes, it was.

[Nick]

I was with my boyfriend's family doing a sunrise kayak, and they were like, we need another solo to hop in our. Our kayak. Nick's hand shoots up from the sand. I'm like, where did he come from?

[Corporate Natalie]

Who is this man in a red Speedo?

[Nick]

He jumps in the front of the boat right next to my boyfriend's dad. They're yapping it up the whole time. It was a beautiful sunrise that we shared together.

[Ross Pomerantz]

It was literally 5am on Hawaii, and I was. At the time, my wife and our baby were sleeping, and I was like, I'm gonna go do something existential right now.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And then I end up in the party boat at 5:00am oh, God.

[Nick]

Natalie's drinking.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Boyfriend's family.

[Corporate Natalie]

Natalie's drinking. Of course.

[Jack]

I can't picture this season one of White Lotus. It.

[Nick]

Exactly, exactly. That was the vibe we were going.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, it was definitely a who done it? Vibe. You know, someone was overboard at one point on the kayak as the sun was rising.

[Nick]

I'm sure you wanted just a moment, like a break away from this world podcasting. Certainly me. But we all jumped in the boat together, so that's good.

[Corporate Natalie]

Nick. Nick strikes me as the guy who you bring around your parents because parents just love him.

[Nick]

Oh, they were obsessed.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Just eating it up, just right out of his hands.

[Nick]

That's one of three boys. It's now four.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I think I was like high fiving him in the gym the next day.

[Nick]

Yeah, everyone ripped their tarps off.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, of course.

[Jack]

Anyway, pedigree is perfect for parents.

[Nick]

It's good to see you with your shirt on, Nick.

[Corporate Natalie]

And Jack just had his third kid.

[Nick]

Jack, give us your personal update. Third kid.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah, just. Just look at Ross's videos about not getting sleep. And that's me time. 3.

[Corporate Natalie]

I don't know how you do it.

[Jack]

No, I'm just kidding. We got, we got Wilder at the top. He's four. Brooks is two, Oakley is zero. So three under four. Is that how it goes?

[Nick]

Terrifying to me.

[Jack]

Years old. I'm rounding down. He's eight weeks old at this point.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Can I also just give Jack a shout out for what he's pulling off right now? It was his first son, AKA the pod son's birthday the other day. Jack didn't just throw a. Jack and Alex didn't just throw a dinosaur themed Easter egg hunt for this thing. No, no, no, no, no, no. Jack bought a wedding cake themed, like dinosaurs, three tears.

[Nick]

No.

[Ross Pomerantz]

That he brought to the birthday party.

[Jack]

It was an anti rece defense.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. What?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Tariffs tariff a cake.

[Corporate Natalie]

I dare you.

[Ross Pomerantz]

There was some IP issues with Jurassic park, but Jack said, what the heck, we'll let the lawyers deal with that. And he got this. The most epic cake I've ever seen outside of two people getting married.

[Nick]

Oh, my gosh, I cannot wait to spoil my kids.

[Corporate Natalie]

And here I am talking to Beck. I'm like, do we really need to do a first birthday? I mean, he's like two weeks old, but like, like, who's going to remember that?

[Nick]

Michael Scott in the office being like, let's just celebrate all three of ours together. Like we don't need to do at this point.

[Corporate Natalie]

You know, I'm an efficiency guy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Corporate Natalie]

So I'm sure I'll do it. I mean, he's two. I still have some time. Two weeks old.

[Jack]

He's only two weeks old.

[Corporate Natalie]

Wow.

[Jack]

Congrats, Ross.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I was like, google, I got him.

[Corporate Natalie]

Like, dude, what do you.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Get a job, Please get a job.

[Nick]

All you do is poop.

[Corporate Natalie]

And I'm lecturing him while I'm changing his diap. It's just, you know, it's a whole thing.

[Nick]

But. Okay, we have you guys on the pod for a reason. We gave your intros before you joined, but can you give us an intro on the best one yet?

[Corporate Natalie]

Who the hell are you guys?

[Nick]

Origin story. Who are you guys? How'd you meet? Just give us your kind of elevator pitch, dare I say?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Well, the best one yet. The best one yet, T Boy, is the daily business show that we call pop biz. The mix of pop culture and business that makes you the most interesting, well read fascinating person in whatever room you're in, whether it's a boardroom or whether it's brunch. Because every day, Jack and I create the three most fascinating stories in the business world. With our takeaways from years and years of studying business, finance and. And everything in between.

[Jack]

It's two best friends talking about business, finance and economics. But it does go back to freshman year. Nick and I were randomly selected as freshman year roommates. Absolutely wild how that changed both of our lives. After four years of college, we became roommates again in New York City. Lived in a four person apartment. It was our wild early 20s and both of us quickly discovered that our desk jobs and finance were not what we had been romanticizing.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Fascinating.

[Nick]

What do you mean?

[Ross Pomerantz]

New York, big city, so fulfilling.

[Jack]

Yeah, the number crunching wasn't cool. I actually worked at a German investment bank which had the benefit of like very generous vacation and like no expectation of 80 hour work weeks, which was.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Really nice, but the negative of zero fun.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Jack]

So Nick and I started a side hustle when we were like 23 years old and fast, secret. Fast forward 13 years and we're still doing that side hustle together today.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Well, really what we started doing was we started writing a daily newsletter in secret, outside of our day jobs. At the risk of being fired, we just said, what the heck, we're going to do it. We grew that from a newsletter into a podcast that was called Market Snacks. We then sold it during this wild summer when we were in business school to Robinhood, the stock trading app which was trying to build out a media Arm. So Jack and I flew out to California, uncertain if we were going to do an acquisition deal. We end up signing a deal and end up becoming a part of Robinhood, the stock trading company for three years, where you probably got to know our podcast as snacks daily. And then after being through Robinhood during their wildest craze ever, during the meme coins and all that craziness, Jack and I spun off the show, kept our podcast audience, and full time went into podcasting with our show, the best one yet, and this incredible community of yetis and besties, as we call them, who love getting business news in a really interesting way. They love hearing Jack and I talk about how Netflix's earnings report reminds us of rihanna song from 10 years ago. And they're using the same strategy as the Spice Girls over at Netflix.

[Jack]

So since 2018, we've done 1500 episodes of our daily podcast.

[Corporate Natalie]

Natalie and I complain about doing like one every three weeks.

[Jack]

Ten. We're exhausted.

[Corporate Natalie]

You got three kids, you're doing one every single day.

[Nick]

You really are the experts, and that's why we wanted to bring you on. I think the theme of this podcast is future proofing your career.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We want to use your knowledge on tariffs, the economy, everything that's going on in the world to inform what our listeners should do, how they should approach potential recession, what's happening, what's on the horizon.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. And just get, get your advice on how you see the world transitioning. Where, where are we headed? What would you guys do? You know, obviously you built something. It's funny, you guys talk about building your newsletter in secret. Similarly, we were filming videos in secret, hoping nobody, like, eventually catches on. And they do, you know, and it becomes a thing. But, you know, you guys took a risk. And a lot of folks who listen to our potter similarly asking themselves, do I want to stay in this corporate job? And, you know, tumultuous, scary time right now. Everybody's been thrown around this, this word of tariffs. I think it's being just sort of a. It is the pop culture word that nobody knows what it means, nobody knows what it's supposed to do, nobody knows how it works. But yeah, no tariffs. How about these tariffs, huh? Oh, it's like a write off.

[Jack]

People have no idea.

[Corporate Natalie]

Exactly. What does that mean? So, I mean, I think that's where we want to start with you guys. You guys have talked about it in a recent episode.

[Nick]

Generally, US Government announcing wide ranging tariffs, including high tariffs on Chinese goods. Right. This is like the basics of what we know I guess from YouTube, what the hell are tariffs are sticking a.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Bouncer at the door to the country and saying, I'm checking IDs and I'm charging fees based on where you come from. And you're basically having to pay a different cover charge depending on what state, but in this case, what country is on your id.

[Jack]

Okay, fantastic analogy, Nick. Now I'm going to take it literal.

[Ross Pomerantz]

You got it.

[Jack]

U.S. customs and Border Control. We encountered them when we're coming back. Nat, you encountered them when you were coming back from Cabo.

[Nick]

I did.

[Jack]

You needed to pass through them and get your passport stamp to enter the country. It is the same with stuff that's made in China. There's only so many ways to enter the country, like by land, by air, or by sea. And each one of them is highly controlled by Customs and Border Control. So instead of stamping a passport, when it comes to a Yeti cooler that's made in China, there's a giant container ship that has like a thousand Yeti coolers. And to get into the United States, they say, what's in there? Show me your documentation. Where is it made? And when Yeti's like, shipping guy says, we have coolers, they're made in China, they say, okay, what's the value of everything in there? And they say, let's say a million dollars. Pay us a 145% tariff before you can enter. So that's $1.45 million of new costs for Yeti coolers now which are going to find their way into the price that we buy them at A Dick's Sporting Goods. Wow.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The factories could pay some of it. The company Yeti could absorb some of it. But most often because these tariffs are high, it ends up getting passed on to consumers in some way.

[Corporate Natalie]

What is the true intent?

[Jack]

The intent is to give preferential treatment to stuff that's made in the usa.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Right.

[Jack]

So we're only charging this brand new tax on stuff that's made abroad. So in theory, tariffs are going to benefit companies that decide to make their products in the United States.

[Ross Pomerantz]

States is an interesting angle here too, that Jack and I were just talking about on the show that, you know, that involves you, Ross, because tariffs also affect different industries in different ways. So cars, you know, are affected because car parts come from all over the world. There are dozens of countries involved in making that Ford F150. But when it comes to baby products, we are particularly vulnerable because 97% of strollers are actually made in China, which is an extremely high percentage, nearly 100% of baby monitors made in China. So that's why actually, in this first week of May, the price of the UPPAbaby stroller is going from 900 bucks to $1200 because of these tariffs.

[Corporate Natalie]

Do you think my wife, being a Facebook Marketplace merchant queen, should start charging tariffs from different neighborhoods? Yeah, because she is out there grinding on Facebook Marketplace.

[Jack]

The only two things this trade war is good for is the American made cooler equivalent of a yeti and Facebook Marketplace, because people are going to buy used stuff as a result of these crazy new fees that are going to trickle down into the products that we buy.

[Corporate Natalie]

Perhaps more of a nuanced question here. And it's. It's not in the list of questions, but the US Export that we talk about a lot of is software. And the intent here is also to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US which will take, in theory, a long period of time. And then we've got the robots that are probably going to take those jobs. Yeah, the bots, I was going to say. How do you guys think about that? The intent from the administration is that. Right. To bring manufacturing jobs back.

[Jack]

We covered this just the other day on our podcast. The driver of this trade war is our trade deficit. And the trade deficit is the fact that we import more from Canada and from China and from Mexico than they buy from us. Right. So we have a deficit like they're producing more than we're producing when it comes to trade. But the problem is that trade deficit only talks about physical things. Right? To your point, Ross, if you're just looking at the trade deficit, you're ignoring all the stuff the United States is best at. And we are best at a lot of different things. Think about Hollywood. If you look at the top 25 highest box office movies of all time, 24 of them are American movies.

[Ross Pomerantz]

If you look at the biggest tech companies and the biggest products being used by everyone across the world and in Europe, these are American digital goods.

[Jack]

We were looking at the Spotify Global 50 Top Songs playlist the other day. 36 of them were American artists. So when it comes to services, finance, technology, entertainment, the United States is the absolute leader of the world and all of these things, Right? But when we're talking about the trade war, we're ignoring all that. And we're just so focused on the one thing that we are comparatively bad at, which is manufacturing. And we're bad at manufacturing because we pay our people much higher wages.

[Nick]

And trickling down to kind of the consumer, the listeners of this podcast. How will tariffs impact our daily lives, our professional lives, even? What should we look out for?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Really, really interesting example of this. Jack and I were just breaking down, which is Domino's Pizza earnings, because this actually tells a really interesting tale. Domino's Pizza theoretically should be tariff proof, because that mozzarella, shocker, they're not importing that from Italy. Exactly. They're getting that from here in the.

[Corporate Natalie]

United States Plastic factory.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Of course, basically, all of the ingredients that go into your Domino's, including the stores themselves, are American made. And yet Domino's just told us in their earnings in the first week of May that they are suffering during the trade war because consumers are making decisions about their pizza choices. Even though Domino's hasn't increased their prices.

[Jack]

They're downgrading to frozen pizza.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah.

[Jack]

And that gives. Really that. That's the big monster in the room, which is the chance of recession.

[Corporate Natalie]

So they are downgrading to frozen pizza. They're not just saying, hey, I don't want to order in.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Well, Jack, you want to share your Costco research that you did? I believe you went into Aisle 6 at Costco and we're expensing some research.

[Nick]

Oh, your boots on the ground. Tell us more.

[Jack]

Four pack of Costco cheese pizzas, frozen Kirkland brand, of course. $13. Domino's can't compete with that.

[Corporate Natalie]

No.

[Jack]

So the long story short is everyone's predicting the country's going into a recession. And if these tariffs with China stay in place, it's an almost certainty in our opinion, that we will go into a recession because we depend on them for so much of our stuff. And at the end of the day, tariffs are taxes. Politicians love to say they're going to cut taxes to grow the economy. Well, this is a new tax, so it's going to shrink the economy. And if that happens, consumers are going to have to deal with higher prices. They might get laid off. Companies are going to have to raise prices, which isn't good for those companies. Like, this isn't greedflation. Right. This is companies raising prices to pay for these new taxes that the U.S. customs and Border Control is charging. Company stock prices are going to go down. Their profits are going to go down. They might have to do layoffs. It is a very bad story. The reason the United States has not used tariffs in a meaningful way for 100 years is because it was kind of an economic understanding that they are a bad policy.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The counterpoint to this is that people have shared this is a negotiating strategy and that the Idea is to come up with a set of individual, country by country deals that will result in better trade terms for the United States. And there are costs and benefits to going through all that. So we still have to see what those actually look like. But in the meantime, the direction things are heading, heading in is exactly the direction Jack is describing now on our pod.

[Jack]

Just yesterday, we said, like, okay, if the goal of the administration is to bring back manufacturing to the United States, that is a worthy goal. Like, nobody disagrees that that is a good thing. But overnight, making the products we get from China 145% more expensive, I mean, that is dramatic. There are going to potentially be empty shelves come Halloween because all of our Halloween costumes are made in China, all of our toys, all of our baby strollers, like Nick, made in China. An alternative to, you know, foreign policy by tweet and executive orders, changing tariffs every day. Nick and I came up with the Made in America Act. Let's say you wanted to bring manufacturing back to the United States. The Made in America act passed by Congress. It's permanent. It's not changing every day. Year one, tariffs on China, 10%. Year two, 20%. Year three, 30%. Gradual, consistent, and give companies the clarity they need to, you know, move their factory maybe from Malaysia to Minnesota.

[Nick]

Okay, so we are interviewing two future politicians.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, of course.

[Nick]

I'm obsessed. Love it. Welcome to the pod. Made in America Act. One thing I want to double click on, Jack, that you mentioned are potential layoffs and how we should approach our careers and our professional lives. We get a lot of questions on the pod. Is now a good time to switch my career? What would you answer to that?

[Jack]

I would say now is a good time to stay with your job if it's a solid job.

[Ross Pomerantz]

There's a third option here, Natalie, that Jack and I've been talking about, which is a new concept called nepopreneurship. Okay, this was our term for a phenomenon that's going on. But the number of young people in America who have taken a job with a relative's company, like a parent's company, a mom, their mom and dad firm, basically, that number has doubled since 2018. The number who've done it in just the last year, it's up 13%. It's still a small portion of the overall population, but a really interesting direction people are going into if they want to switch careers, but they still want the security that they crave from their current job is to join with their parents company. And there's this other interesting phenomenon which is we talked about the silver tsunami boomers retiring in the next decade or so and how they'll hand down wealth and there's going to be a transfer of investment assets. But one thing they're going to be handing down is the businesses that they run. And they'd probably run. Rather have their kid running it, maybe, than someone random who they'd sell it to. So a third option here, and it's not open to everybody, but you could consider working for your mom and dad.

[Nick]

Knock on Dad's door, see what he's.

[Corporate Natalie]

Up to, bring a resume to dad, sit him down, ask for that job. That's what they said.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I mean, Ross, you got it. You got a baby boy. This, you know, could be the third host on the show.

[Jack]

Even before the risk of recessions came along, we covered a story in our pod about nepopreneurs. To Nick's point, the share of small businesses employing the child of the owner, in other words, like, you know, the owner's son or the owner's daughter, has doubled since 2018. We did another story about this big boom in boring jobs. The idea is that entrepreneurs aren't pursuing, like, you know, SaaS, cloud computing, or, you know, artificial corn disruptors. Instead, they're pursuing like an electrician job or a plumbing role by the local laundromat.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The trades.

[Corporate Natalie]

The trades.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Jack and I joke. We have some buddies from business school who have, like, bought up a bunch of funeral homes.

[Nick]

Yes. Everyone's ruling everything up.

[Corporate Natalie]

Me looking at cash businesses online every day, med spots.

[Jack]

I mean, what business is more reliable than funeral homes?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

The underperformance is that, like, even before the risk of a session came along, it's been a tough job market, especially for new hires, for, like two years now. Zuckerberg started his year of efficiency that's still rippling through Silicon Valley. You got artificial intelligence, which is causing anxiety. If you got a solid job, we say keep it. And keep in mind, it's not just tech jobs that are attractive. There's a serious boom in going back to the trades.

[Nick]

Such good advice, especially for people in Silicon Valley. We're all obsessed with the next tech boom, the waves. What can we do? It's like maybe it's the funeral home down the street.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Honestly, most innovative business we've probably seen in the last two weeks. Well, there's one we gotta tell you about. The cheating. The AI cheating.

[Corporate Natalie]

That was a wild story. I saw this. Yeah.

[Nick]

Please share.

[Corporate Natalie]

Kid got kicked out of school for it.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The other one is these Laundromats. In Brooklyn that are like nightclubs now.

[Jack]

So, like, laundromats.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

These, like, young guys took over these laundromats in Brooklyn, you know, by day, it's like a very millennially nice, you know, very smooth. Typical laundromat. By night, they're serving, like, buffalo wings. They've got a DJ come in, and they got this whole other source of revenue. And let me tell you, Jack and.

[Jack]

I were talking about.

[Ross Pomerantz]

That's an AI proof job right There it is. Running a laundromat disco.

[Nick]

In supply of DJs in New York City. Very high. Yes, a lot of DJs ready.

[Ross Pomerantz]

You get a good price on DJs these days.

[Nick]

Can you talk about the cheating scandal?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Oh, this is good.

[Jack]

Oh, this is.

[Ross Pomerantz]

This is really good. Jack, you want to share what these Columbia guys did?

[Jack]

Yeah. So about a month ago, the Columbia University. Well, I mean, two students at Columbia University created an app on the side of, you know, their English degree or whatever it was they were pursuing as an undergrad at Columbia, they started this AI app that was explicitly designed to help you cheat in school. Cheat. And then they told all their classmates about this app they created, which helps them cheat on everything.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Okay.

[Jack]

When it came to academics.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Spoiler. They got kicked out a month.

[Corporate Natalie]

They did.

[Nick]

Well, as if ChatGPT doesn't allow you to cheat enough.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

Is anyone writing a paper these days who's written in that thing about cheating?

[Jack]

Prompting the paper specifically designed to help them get internship offers from all the tech companies. So they were looking for, like, a summer internship at Meta, at Amazon, at Microsoft. And they had these coding interviews where they had to share their screen with the interviewer. So this app called Cluey, now, it's specifically invisible so that the person on the other side somehow can't see that you're using an AI chatbot. Meanwhile, the AI chatbot is listening and watching everything that's happening on the screen and giving you just the information you need at the right moment to crack the code. So these two freshmen at Columbia, they go onto LinkedIn and they go onto X, bragging about these internship opportunities they got thanks to their cheating app. And then they get an email from the Student Disciplinary Board saying, yeah, you're suspended. So what did the kids do next?

[Ross Pomerantz]

They moved to Silicon Valley. They're here in San Francisco as of a month. They've already raised money. They're doing $3 million in the first month on this AI cheating app, and they've expanded it to cheat on anything. So their recent use Case using this AI cheating app to cheat on a date. A first date.

[Jack]

Yep. Very slick.

[Nick]

I was, as a joke, going to say to cheat on your spouse. What do you mean, cheat on your first date?

[Ross Pomerantz]

So here's how it goes down. Ross, have you seen the video?

[Corporate Natalie]

I have not seen this video, no. No.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Okay, so in the video, the founder walks into a restaurant, and he's wearing virtual reality glasses. So he's getting data as they're having this conversation over the meal. And the woman he's speaking with, as she's speaking. The cheating app is feeding him information through the glasses, which you can do now with a set of meta Ray Ban glasses saying, she likes flowers. Her birthday was this date. She majored in physics. Ask her about her favorite book that she posted about from last weekend. So he is just full on, basically cheating the date by knowing all this information about him. But then that brought up, like, a really existential question. Jack and I are wondering which was, is this cheating or is this just an advantage?

[Corporate Natalie]

It's like your personal chief of staff.

[Jack]

Yeah, it's like Gary from Veep kind of whispering you all the things you need to hear right in the moment, but less creepy.

[Nick]

That was reminding me of when I was dating in San Francisco. And guys would have watched all of my corporate Natalie videos before I met them. And they're a complete stranger to me. I'm terrified of them.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And they're like, I know you're like.

[Corporate Natalie]

Like your video.

[Nick]

Yeah, like, I saw that video. You did. Who are you?

[Corporate Natalie]

And they wait to bring it up.

[Nick]

They wait till two glasses of wine. Now I'm trapped.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And you're like, oh, that's the perfect time.

[Corporate Natalie]

Well, what do you guys think about the massive education gap that we're going to have as a result of this? Everybody's papers is going to read the same. Everybody's thoughts are going to be the same because they're all being fed the same stuff through this. I guess the AI can get better, but.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Well, this is a creativity analogy Jack and I have used before, which is the iPhone. Which is the iPhone camera. Revolutionized how we all became photographers, like, overnight by having an iPhone. Basically, the entire population was capable of photography at a level that we never could have before. However, to this day, we still have professional photographers. People still pay millions of dollars for legendary photos. And if you're doing the photo shoot with your family, like on Hawaii, and you wanted to do one with Matt's family, now you'd probably hire a pro photographer. So there is this element that like, the average is being brought up by AI. But the question is the perfect, the highest quality, the curated, the tastemakers that may still be protected because that's operating at a just different level that the AI isn't hitting.

[Jack]

Funny thing about this cheat on everything app, though, just to, you know, they're getting kicked out of Columbia basically for. For cheating. And like, they brand it cheating because that is a wild cutting to the chase marketing wise.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We clicked on it.

[Jack]

Like, they're not. They're not branding their app as being able to boost your productivity. They're branding the app as helping you cheat, which has some appeal. But bear in mind, you know, 40 years ago, using a calculator was considered cheating.

[Corporate Natalie]

Right.

[Jack]

20 years after that, using automatic spell check was considered cheating. So what's considered cheating at one point just gets added into the rules and it's like, actually, okay now. And that's what we think. It's important for everyone working a job right now to think like, using AI is. Don't consider it cheating.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yes.

[Jack]

You shouldn't lie like, like that kid was lying that, you know, he was a marine biologist, didn't know anything about marine biology. Right.

[Corporate Natalie]

It's like, I'm bilingual. And then they say something in Spanish and you're like, working proficiency, but use.

[Jack]

Artificial intelligence to make you better at the thing because soon it will not just like using a calculator. Today is not feeling like cheating. Neither will using AI.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. Until everyone's like, sorry, babe, I can't talk to you. I get my glasses on. Okay.

[Nick]

God, so scary.

[Corporate Natalie]

Well, okay, so that's actually a really good segue. And so the CEO of Shopify recently said that he'll only hire more headcount if his team, quote, cannot get what they're. What they want to get done using AI. So how do you guys see the job market being affected by the proliferation of these AI agents now, which can do a ton of things? And what are the most valuable skills that you guys see in humans in this age of AI?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Honestly, Jack, you want to share the takeaway we had from interviewing the Duolingo CEO?

[Jack]

We just interviewed Luis Von Ahn on our show. He's the.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, he just came out with a huge article about of Duolingo, and he.

[Jack]

Came out with an article very similar to what you're saying happened at Shopify. He said that everyone at his company, they are a tech company. And so a lot of his engineers are concerned about AI. A lot of them ask that, is AI going to take my job? And his Answer to them, AI is not going to take your job, but somebody who uses AI well or better than you could take your job. So like that's, that's point number one. Point number two, he had this really funny story. It was kind of self deprecating. So I'm going to like use his words. Yeah, yeah. Pretend I'm Louis Von on for a second. He said, you know, math nerds, like 50 years ago we had a hard time. We got shoved into lockers and we were kind of the brunt of the joke. But then the tech industry started booming and we had a really, really good run and we started becoming CEOs and founding tech companies and becoming billionaires. And so math nerds had a really, really good 50 year stretch. I think with artificial intelligence, that run is coming to an end. His idea is that taste is going to be more important than ever in the age of artificial intelligence.

[Ross Pomerantz]

He specifically said, artists will beat nerds in the age of AI.

[Nick]

Interesting.

[Corporate Natalie]

And I'm ready to bully both. So, yeah, you know, we kind of love it.

[Ross Pomerantz]

You know, it's, it's a counterintuitive take and it's like contrary to everything you see out there, but in a basic level you see this with like AI's ability to do coding and kind of like core engineering skills, but the limits on creating something totally new from scratch. And the example he gave was like the super bowl commercial that Duolingo did where there was like an owl, the famous Duolingo owl that had another owl come out of its butt and then another owl appear out of that owl's butt. And it was like increasing owls coming out of each owl's butt.

[Nick]

Genius.

[Corporate Natalie]

Was it the Russian doll? Those dolls that you keep stacking up?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, exactly. And his point was, you know, that's, that's the kind of thing that like ChatGPT isn't exactly coming up with. You need an artist to kind of.

[Jack]

Come up with that. I think he was also saying that a lot of quantitative work or sort of process oriented work is just going to be purely commodified and ultimately automated by artificial intelligence.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. And you know, their content scale has to be automated. That's what they talk. He talked about that too. Right. A lot of their work, like their contractors, they're going to lose a lot of their contractors because they got to do content at scale in all these different languages. And something that I can do really well is translate and sort of build curriculum around the things that they've already built. So maybe the engineers are okay But I don't know. They're still.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We're curious what you guys are using AI for. Like, we're all podcasters here, and, you know, like, what. But we all have a. And we have a process for creating the show. And it's so funny because a lot of listeners probably don't know how much work and we know how much work you guys are putting into the show. Like, you're hearing the episode today if you're a listener. But, like, we know both of you and your entire teams have poured hours and days into preparing for this. So, like, how are you guys using it as part of, you know, this entertainment industry?

[Nick]

Not enough. I don't think the comedy has been fully matched, but the relatability is. I think even in the last three months, it's gotten better on prompting for script ideas and bits that we do outside of the pod, but, like, more of our filmed content.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, I mean, like, it's great for idea generation, like, on a sort of micro level. You guys mentioned the tastemaking. It has no genius. AI has no genius to it. So, like, that's what differentiates the content that goes crazy versus the ones that are just kind of fall flat, even if they are quote, unquote relatable. You know, you're not allowed to use AI. So, like, I'm working on scripts for, you know, tv. I can't use AI for that. Like, I can't really go near that, because if they find out or they can figure it out, then it's like.

[Jack]

Because of the writer strike.

[Corporate Natalie]

Exactly.

[Nick]

And same with our branded content on socials, all the contracts include. You cannot use AI to generate any of the concepts that you do in our branded content.

[Corporate Natalie]

Right. But you may have a script, and you're like, okay, I need a good example is I was, like, trying to figure out what would be a good gift for a salesperson. Right. That would be funny. Right. And it just sort of listed out a few ideas. I just needed a super small, kind of like, mini joke inside a much larger skit. And it gave me a bunch of good ideas. That was. That. That was great. But it doesn't have the cleverness, it doesn't have the wit, doesn't have the.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Sarcasm or the personal history that you guys pull from. Like, Jack and I, you know, we go back to freshman year. So, like, we pull from, you know, we're like, wow, the. The analogy here for. For this economic trend is actually, you know, honestly, it's like a Beirut game that we played when we were in college. And like, you know, this strategy Jack would. And we're like, that's a personal thing that you can't touch if you're coming through ChatGPT on.

[Nick]

Right, true.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And you guys are talking about the creative side here.

[Jack]

It's interesting, Ross, that you, you know, ask Chat GPT, what gift should I get this client? Because I think that's the first step to harnessing the power of AI is just rewiring your muscle memory to stop thinking and stop Googling. Even though that's what we've done for our entire professional careers is think and Google when we need to come up with ideas and find information and instead rewire yourself. Can I ask an AI chatbot to save me time here or to come up with better ideas or to just brainstorm so that I'm not starting with a clean slate?

[Corporate Natalie]

Right, That's a clean slate thing.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The best way to pick up a new habit, work with an existing habit. So, you know, like, when people want to give up alcohol, they typically don't go cold turkey, because that's really hard. They typically replace it with something else. Maybe get a tea instead or, you know, a ginger drink.

[Corporate Natalie]

Right.

[Ross Pomerantz]

So you still are enjoying the habit, but it's just not alcohol. Same thing like Jack saying, like, instead of googling something, try ChatGPT and see how that's the same habit but different use case. When we did that story on, on why the NBA should expand to other countries, like the whole NBA basketball business model, we needed to know, like, how many MVPs in the NBA were born outside the United States. Googling that, you know, doesn't really give you an exact answer, but AI does. So like with research, you know, that's how we've been using it the most.

[Corporate Natalie]

It gets you over that blank. You mentioned the blank slate. Like, that's the hardest thing for so many creatives. Just like, give me something to work with. Show me some clay.

[Nick]

And you're mentioning kind of rewiring those habits, I guess, just more specifically, I want to ask about maybe some of these tools or just current things you can add. So the CEO of Uber said that most employees do not know how to properly leverage AI tools, their daily work. How can listeners start leveraging AI tools in their current work roles? And maybe it's just going from Google to ChatGPT, but any. Any tools or recommendations you have before.

[Jack]

I answer that question from Nat. A quick sponsor break at and T.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Business Yetis starting your own business. It ain't easy. When we first got our daily newsletter off the ground that led to this podcast a decade ago. We definitely did not get everything right.

[Jack]

Remember we initially bummed WI fi off of hotel lobbies.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Classic move.

[Jack]

And then the concierge kicked us out. So coffee shop free Wi fi became our godsend.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Another latte shout out to all the.

[Jack]

Small business cafe owners. Your wifi is the real hero.

[Ross Pomerantz]

What's the code to the bathroom again? Honestly, if we could do it all over we would probably invest in our own less bootleggy Internet.

[Jack]

If you need to connect your small business, you need AT&T business. They make connecting easy. Actually they make so many things easy.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Which is the main thing you want in a provider. Less time stressing, more time for you to work on your business.

[Jack]

And yetis there' enough time.

[Ross Pomerantz]

So start a business, live your dream and wake up to the power of ATT business. Business.att.com Audible Yetis, you're looking for a summer getaway right now. How about a rich one? Literally.

[Jack]

Rich Girl Summer is the new Audible original from author Lily Chu.

[Ross Pomerantz]

It kicks off in Toronto's wealthy cottage country, AKA the Hamptons of Canada.

[Jack]

I already am sold.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Double sold. Rich Girl Summer. It follows the story of Valerie, a down on her luck event planner posing.

[Jack]

As a socialite and she's piecing together secrets to a mystery while falling in love with an infuriatingly handsome family assistant.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, if you're looking for a break from business news, this would be it. Narrated by Philip Desu, the incredible voice of Angelica from Hamilton and her real life husband. It sounds as beautiful as the Hamptons of Canada looks.

[Jack]

So listen to Rich Girl Summer now on audible. Go to audible.com richgirlsommar how can listeners.

[Nick]

Start leveraging AI tools in their current work roles?

[Jack]

Stop Googling. Go to ChatGPT. Anyone I know who has sort of moved their page one of the Internet from Google to ChatGPT says they're never going back and it's just a total game changer for their Internet experience. So I do think that's step one because you're going to stop googling and you're just going to start using artificial intelligence just by accident due to the nature of going to look for things on the Internet.

[Nick]

Yeah. Any tools you've seen in emailing these like general like presentations, things that every worker is doing.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Well here's, here's a risk to be careful about which is that it's also and Ross was kind of highlighting this earlier there, you can start to sense now what's, what's been, what's got a little chat GPT flavor.

[Nick]

Oh yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

You know, like Jack and I can get. You can suss out right now which emails with like the hyphen or like the one, two punch, like are kind of using. I'm guilty.

[Corporate Natalie]

I use the hyphen all the time. And now I'm offended. I'm a huge hyphen guy.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I feel like it, I feel like it plagiarized us, man. Yeah, but that, that is a key and you know, one art form, Jack and I think that is going to be developed more is prompting. And this kind of gets at the why artists may succeed well with AI, which is actually asking. And this is the difference with Google. With Google you can just kind of like you can have 12 typos in there and Google will just like show you the results. With ChatGPT, you do want to create and spend the time investing in the right prompt, which is a series of guidelines to get you to the right answer. And that prompt, that art of prompting, that's a skill we think you can improve on and get better at. And part of these prompts that Jack and I say will be like, we want this to, you know, what are examples that are not expected from AI? What are things that are more outside the box? You can prompt AI to not sound like AI or not do things that are cliche AI, like the role prompt engineer.

[Nick]

Is that similar to what you're saying? What is a prompt engineer?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, similar concept of like being good at prompt engineering.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And it is a skill we think just like learning how to write a cover letter was a skill before or how to craft a thesis statement was a skill actually. Having the ability to write a thoughtful prompt with guidelines of I want it to be colorful, I want it to mimic this style of writing. I don't want it to sound like AI wrote it.

[Jack]

Here's how you become a great prompt engineer. You act like a boss and you pretend you have an assistant and be like a really awful boss who's super anal about all the details. So Wilder's 4th birthday party and the dinosaur themed Easter egg hunt that Nick mentioned, that idea came from ChatGPT. I said, I'm having a birthday party in April in Vermont. I want it to be outdoors. I don't know what the weather will be, but it's probably going to be wet and cold. Easter is the day after the birthday party. I don't want to get a bounce house because that's cliche for four year old birthday parties. No judgments though, Jack, what activity can I do. For the 40 people who have RSVP'd 20 of which 20 of whom are toddlers, they came up with that idea and like six other really good ideas. Act like you have an assistant. Act like you're Ari Gold. Remember Ari Gold? Yeah. Unbelievably productive. And Ari Gold was like, aggressively demanding of that assistant. I think that's how you become a great prompt engineer.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yes.

[Jack]

Like demand absolute excellence and say all of your preferences and all the things you need down to a. Like down to the final detail. And ChatGPT doesn't care about manners. They're going to produce a better product because you were such a stickler.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. Sam Altman. I can say please and thank you.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah. They're losing, like, you know, tens of millions of dollars of people being polite.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, I saw this video. I saw this video. It's like how we're cheating chat GBT these days. And it's like, like now make it better. And the guy was pretending to be chat gbt.

[Corporate Natalie]

He's like sweating.

[Nick]

Please let me out.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And when the robots come for us, though, if you did drop the occasional please and thank you. I think they keep a record of this.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yes, I do too. 100%.

[Nick]

Yeah, gotta be nice.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, gotta be nice. Your behavior score is just being logged every second. Now, should we shift on to our. Dear Demoted, we had some folks write into us and so I'm going to attempt to read this to you guys. We don't show this that often, but Natalie and I really struggle to read.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Corporate Natalie]

So I'm going to read this anyway here. So. Dear Demoted and T boy, I was recently laid off from my tech startup job. They said the decision was due to the, quote, hesitancy of venture capital firms to invest in the market during economic uncertainty. Do you think this is a temporary measure or could this be the start of a rough time to be an early stage tech, Would it be unwise to look for another job at a startup? Any insight would be very helpful. Thank you, guys.

[Jack]

So taking a job at a startup is always risky. Just given the nature that most startups don't succeed, there's data out there that businesses that get formed chances are in five years won't be there anymore. So startups are always risky. You're also probably not going to get paid as much at a startup as you would a big company, especially when you consider the benefits that a big company can offer you and the number of hours a startup demands of you. So. So that's like number one startups are always more risky. And you should only do so if the failure outcome, like the company going under or you not making it there. Like, can you handle that negative outcome? Like, do you have some savings or something to fall back on if you lose your job? If you don't, maybe a startup is not the right move for you because that, that adverse scenario is just unacceptable. Like, Ross, you have a kid now. I have three kids now. Once you get those kinds of family responsibilities, your risk tolerance just goes down a little bit. It's just like the nature of life.

[Corporate Natalie]

Depends on the going rate for a child. I don't know.

[Jack]

If all that sounds great to you, then there's. With all that risk comes greater reward. So you get the upside at a startup of being promoted more quickly, of gaining responsibilities more quickly because there's so few people who work at the company. Maybe you get stock and equity in the company if that company gets acquired or IPOs, that's how you could get rich someday.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And honestly, maybe you have some leverage now. Like as we're hearing this question, I'm thinking, Jack, like, yeah, maybe people are averse to going to startups right now and so maybe the desire to need some people talent kind of works in your favor. And therefore, if you are pursuing a startup and they're having trouble hiring, it's an opportunity to ask for more. Like, maybe this is when you ask for equity. We always say equity is exciting. You know this, you know this. There could be some leverage here if you are pursuing a startup when most people are not.

[Nick]

Yeah, equity is exciting and terrifying.

[Corporate Natalie]

One, one thing I would add to that is also try to look at when they raised money. If they raised money four, five years ago now, chances are they're not going to achieve their valuation and are at much higher risk. You know, everybody's trying to fight to meet these valuations that were, that were crazy just five years ago. You know, if you've raised money very recently in the last year, they probably are going to go lower and slower and have a little bit more. Be a little bit more conservative, burn a little slower. That's my hypothesis, at least with what VCs are telling companies to do now. So you might have a little more Runway to. If you do choose to go there, they might be a little bit safer, but again, still highly risky.

[Nick]

Good advice. Your podcast kind of started as a side hustle. Our content started as a side hustle. Everyone's like, how do I make ends meet now? Should I get another job? What can I do? Do you have any advice on side hustling or how to find other sources of income in these uncertain times?

[Jack]

Yeah. I mean, first of all, create an LLC for yourself. If you're gonna start side hustling, make sure you have created a business because all of the expenses related to the work you did, whether it's your computer, your Internet service, that is all part of the product that you're working on selling.

[Nick]

Great advice.

[Jack]

So if you're gonna start a side hustle, that is a business. And if you're even just the thought.

[Nick]

Of starting a side hustle you think you don't like, even just if you're.

[Corporate Natalie]

Going to commit to some of it, you should do that. Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

There's a funny little bit of accountability. You know, the theory that when you share something with someone, you're just more accountable because now there's like a little bit of reputational risk. Almost similarly like with the US Government. If you file to create that LLC like Jack's talking about, and you're going to get a notification from the government the next year saying that you, like you owe a certain filing fee or something, you're going to feel like, you know what, I got to make this 400 bucks worth it. I really should turn this into something.

[Nick]

Yeah, I love it. It's going to be amazing.

[Corporate Natalie]

Speaking to Existence, I got to put it out there.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Corporate Natalie]

Accountability now.

[Jack]

We recently started a second show actually called the Best Idea Yet. We launched it last fall. Instead of a daily podcast about news, this is a deep dive weekly podcast. So far, we've covered 40 of the most viral products of all time. And it's basically the untold origin stories of the products we're all obsessed with. So we did Super Mario Bros. We did the Birkenstock Sandal. We did the Ferrari. We did the Super Soaker. We did the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. Here's a wild detail about all of those products. Just about all of them started during economic recessions. It is wild. But he reversed character in our series. The best idea yet is that an economic downturn caused somebody to be in a tough situation and with their back against the wall, they innovated and created something awesome people get.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Recessions are the recurring character in all the shows. And then on top of that, to go even further, to tie into Nat's question, so many of these products began as some kind of a side project. The Peeps Candy side project. Peanut butter cups. Invented by a frog salesman. They were a side project.

[Nick]

A frog salesman.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yeah, a frog.

[Corporate Natalie]

Like, you know, when you like need a frog.

[Nick]

You know when you're like in the market for a frog.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Yep. This is the guy you call. He was running a little peanut butter business on the side. The Super Soaker NASA engineer side hustle at home created a Super Soaker.

[Nick]

Wow.

[Ross Pomerantz]

So many incredible success stories of these that are all began during moments like this with side hustles like you're talking about.

[Corporate Natalie]

So you're saying it's a great time.

[Nick]

To build one more dear Demoted for you both. Hey, Nick and Jack. I listened to T Boy and damn, you guys are smart and well read. What do you rely on as your source of information? What should I read or listen to every day to sound smarter at work? Tee up. What is it?

[Jack]

Listen to our show because we have some advice for people who want to find the right news and information, but we know that your time is limited. Nick and I spend our full day job finding the perfect mix of stories for a 20 minute podcast.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We literally say content is king, but curation is queen and we are curating it for you.

[Jack]

We have a wildly diverse diet of news and information that we spend hours consuming every day, including on the weekends. We consider it like our personal board of advisors. We have like an automotive blog sitting at that end of the boardroom. We have a tech podcast right there. Nick has the biography of Enzo Ferrari over there. I listen to a conservative leaning podcast. I listen to a liberal newsletter. We consume so much information from so many different perspectives so that we can figure out what are the three stories our audience needs to know and how can we give them that 20 minute news shot that just prepares them perfectly to understand the trends, the exciting stories, and the boring stories that are actually really important that you need to know about.

[Nick]

Wow. So if you want to become an LLM like Nick and Jack have with.

[Jack]

Consuming every source of information.

[Nick]

Yeah. If you don't have time to do that, listen to T Boy, I think is the answer.

[Ross Pomerantz]

One lesson Jack and I have learned in this daily pursuit of the most interesting business stories in the world is that Jack and I like to say the formula for interesting is bold plus specific. And what we look for when we're going to choose whether or not a story will be one of our three for the day, and it's something you can look for in your lives when you're looking for interesting news is we like to find the bold and specific example. For example, we did a story the other day on how fashion chains are launching coffee shops. So high end or low end, they're launching shops the data point that led us to that whole story was about Ralph Lauren's Ralph's Coffee and how they were doubling the number of stores and the retention rates were a super high number. We took that hero stat, researched it further, discovered there was a whole story here of Zara launching it, Gucci launching coffee chains, and we turned that into a story for the pod Jack. And I think that's part of a healthy news diet. If you're not listening to our show, something you can do on your own, which is pursue when you see the one interesting detail or data point, go down that rabbit hole a little more and you'll find there is usually a bigger, broader story with a bigger, broader takeaway there.

[Nick]

I think something that you both have that's just, I love witnessing firsthand is just such sheer curiosity. That's what made you start this podcast, what made you start your second podcast. Being curious about the world and things and trying to find things that excite you will make your day a little bit more fulfilling, I think.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Totally.

[Corporate Natalie]

And you're just tastemaker kings.

[Nick]

You really are.

[Jack]

So pursuing curiosity is a very proactive move, Natalie. And whether or not you listen to our podcast, we do have advice for how to be well rounded, information wise, and that is to break your social media silo. Our algorithms have pigeonholed all of us. They have figured out what we like to click on and what we like to view and then just fed us tons of that same thing. We're all in these information silos based on our algorithms. To break out of that, you need to proactively search for an account that the algorithms are not feeding you to diversify your information diet. So like Nick and I have an automotive blog, an international newspaper, a British economic magazine, of which that is a category of one, by the way. Everyone knows that's the Economist. It's a very proactive thing. Like you're going to have have a very not homogeneous information diet unless you actively pursue new perspectives.

[Nick]

Matt and I try to read the Economist every Sunday night. And by that I mean Matt reads it to me because I have zero interest, but it makes me smarter, which is good.

[Corporate Natalie]

Final question, answer or not just says two of my favorite pods. Ask t boy their favorite stock or ETF.

[Jack]

When Nick and I were in our 20s, we were highly active of stock jockeys, let's call it. Yeah, we pursued lots of individual stocks because we believed we could outperform the rest of the market, just like every cocky 20 year old.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I mean, it's gonna go up, right? It Only goes up.

[Corporate Natalie]

That's what I was told.

[Nick]

We're the smartest two dudes here. We got this.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Jack, this just came across my desk. If you've got one minute.

[Jack]

Let me tell you about finance class. That you can't beat the market and it's futile. But we didn't believe it until we tried it in our 20s and failed. Honestly, in my 30s, I have stopped trying to beat the market. And my favorite stock is Berkshire Hathaway, which is half private equity firm, half actively managed stock portfolio led by a 94 year old investing legend. You can basically for free, with no management fee, piggyback off the smartest mind in the United States, which is Warren Buffett. Buffett. And for the last 59 years his return owning that stock is double as good as the S&P 500. It's not a stock recommendation, but that is where most of my money is.

[Corporate Natalie]

What's a single share of that?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Now they've got the B's.

[Jack]

Oh, that's right, the B share. $300 or something.

[Corporate Natalie]

Okay.

[Jack]

The A share is like 500,500 K for a share.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Funny detail about Jackson, my investing which we always kind of shocks people. But you know, Jack and I, we invested in a car charging stock during the pandemic when we were bullish in buying electric cars and we're like, this is going to work. Hasn't gone anywhere. Peloton. We were all in on that at a pretty good point during the pandemic.

[Corporate Natalie]

Still holding on, hoping someone will do something with it.

[Ross Pomerantz]

But you know, that hasn't done much. Our best performing stock, S, p, y, the ETF, the S&P 500. The most boring of stocks has been our best performing stock.

[Corporate Natalie]

That's Reddit's favorite stock too.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And honestly the key thing Jack and I do is, you know, like people BTD buy the dip. Jack and I like to say now we btd, we buy the date. We basically invest on specific dates on a calendar year consistently. So instead of choosing based on what the prices of the stock. Because anytime we tried to buy at the bottom, it's kind of gone down further. We just take that variable out of the equation. We don't even think about it. We just buy on the first of the month kind of a thing. And if you're holding long term, it doesn't really matter where the buy in price was because eventually you're hoping it goes up from there. So rather than stressing yourself out about BTD by the dip, another thing you could do Is BTD by the date and just focus on buying stocks at specific dates.

[Corporate Natalie]

I got some recurring buys.

[Jack]

I have a caveat which is early in your investing career, buy a single stock of a company you friggin love and eventually it's hopefully going to go up and when it does, sell it. And then splurge on something for yourself with that gain that you took.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Oh totally.

[Jack]

Because that's sort of like you need to bask in the glory of capitalism by like making a $300 return and just buying that friggin pair of sneakers.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I think that's how we bought these snatching shinola watches. Jack and I like got a nice business dev.

[Nick]

This is our first US matching watches.

[Corporate Natalie]

Why would they.

[Nick]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Okay, we want to do Promoted or Demoted? Our tried and true segment with you two. While we have you on this is just quick answers. Do you like it? Do you not? A lot of these might come from some recent T Boy episodes.

[Corporate Natalie]

Promoted. Demoted. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Who's your favorite?

[Jack]

Nick, you have a disclosure to make.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

I mean, I only wore Ninja Turtle underwear for the first four years of my life without fail. And I think that's pretty common from what I understand.

[Corporate Natalie]

I was a big Ninja Turtle guy too. I don't know if it was four years straight, but.

[Ross Pomerantz]

So, you know, just because we're on a roll here, let's promote Ninja Turtles. And the reason why is when Jack and I did a story on the Ninja Turtles, it is the first company, the first brand we'd ever heard of that was started as a complete joke. Like the guys who created it just were riffing on a couch and trying to come up with the dumbest idea.

[Corporate Natalie]

They were stoned as hell.

[Jack]

They were definitely in Massachusetts. They were stoned as hell. And they said, I'm going to make a cartoon about turtles. And then, I mean, wait, Ninja Turtles? Hang on. Teenage Ninja Turtles? Wait, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Let's name them after Italian Renaissance painters.

[Jack]

They called it the dumbest idea they could think of and it became a billion dollar.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And something so dumb like that, you kind of just got to promote it.

[Nick]

That's like Ross writing, sales are dope.

[Corporate Natalie]

From your as stupid as possible. Yeah, but me taking it seriously, keeping.

[Ross Pomerantz]

You guys in your net move.

[Jack]

Sadness is the best acronym I've ever come across.

[Corporate Natalie]

Thank you.

[Nick]

It is.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We were so impressed with it. It's just, it's.

[Jack]

It's USA Patriot act and sadness.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah, please.

[Jack]

Best acronyms ever.

[Corporate Natalie]

That's what's going to take to get it passed. That's what it's going to take.

[Nick]

I have one final one here. As the only non business school goer of the group, I'll let you. You three answer. Promoter demoted. Going to business school.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Say promoted.

[Corporate Natalie]

Minimal contact. You don't get to give ton of context here. I'm going to promote it personally.

[Jack]

I'm going to promote it so that Michigan likes me as an alum. So they invite you back to finally, the network, guys.

[Ross Pomerantz]

It's all about the network promoted for the. For the sake of the kids who may apply.

[Jack]

Yeah, Love that.

[Nick]

Love that. Well, Nick and Jack, you've been amazing. Thank you for coming on our podcast. Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.

[Corporate Natalie]

Absolutely killed it. People are gonna be blown away. They actually got smarter for once on a demoted episode.

[Jack]

They did. They're gonna.

[Nick]

They're gonna freak out.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We had so much fun. And we had so much fun having you guys in our podcast. But also, also, one moment, can we just pivot the spotlight a little bit to how much we respect you guys in terms of what you bring and create into the world? And there's an example Jack and I were thinking of in particular, which is no one enjoys ads. They are kind of like the bottom of the content totem pole. Right. You know, like, that's not the highlight. And yet you two have managed to turn advertising into a form of content that we look forward to listening to when we listen to every episode of yours. And that is a skill that, like, as peers, we deeply admire about you because it says you're willing to do, like, the tough things.

[Jack]

Absolutely. Best in class branded posts. The funniest posts I can remember that you two have done have been paid posts. I'm thinking of. We're beaming.

[Corporate Natalie]

I know.

[Jack]

Ross tried to sell Nat some Chomps beef jerkies.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah, that was so good.

[Jack]

Ross's Mr. Coffee Morning routine.

[Corporate Natalie]

I can't believe they approved that.

[Jack]

And then recently, the two co workers whose entire personality at work is. I'm too busy for this. That was Staples, right?

[Nick]

Staples.

[Corporate Natalie]

Staples, yeah.

[Jack]

How do you come up? Do you, like, write the skill in the chat sheet number five?

[Corporate Natalie]

We just think about the insufferable versions of ourselves, which is us.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Corporate Natalie]

And go from there.

[Nick]

We go to the negative trope, and then we kind of weave it in.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We think of all the motorheads out there. Like, something that we should additionally appreciate about these two, as an incredible podcasting pair, are that they put the time into something that, honestly, most podcasters don't care about. And. And a lot of podcasters try to act like they're reading because they, like, think they're above the ads.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Jack]

And we don't.

[Ross Pomerantz]

We don't like that approach, but, like, you guys do such the opposite of that. So for all the motorheads out there, just another reason to love these two.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Jack]

Managed to offer your product for free. Monetizing through ads that people don't always like, but you make that entertaining too, so that's really.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And on that note, just put in promo code, Motorhome, free shipping. Gu ads, free shipping one.

[Corporate Natalie]

Think about it.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Promo code, promote it.

[Nick]

Where can we find you? We know your podcast. You want to shout out your personal socials.

[Corporate Natalie]

Where can we pay you guys for what you just said about us?

[Nick]

Yeah, like, where can we, like, turn that into a social clip?

[Ross Pomerantz]

Follow the best one yet. We're also known as Tboy tboy@tboy pod on Instagram, Tik Tok and everywhere on social. The show is the best one yet, AKA T boy, you can find.

[Jack]

That's all you gotta follow.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Follow the best one yet every day. Nick's in my personal handles from there.

[Corporate Natalie]

But the quality you guys put out.

[Jack]

Every day is just souls. And it shows our heart, our soul, into our brain, into every episode.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And enjoy our new show, the best idea yet, which every week, the most viral products of all time, Jack and I tell you where they really came from, and that one has been a blast. We just did Frappuccino this week, which.

[Nick]

Oh, my old dream. We just probably lost all of our Motorhead listeners because they're now going to just transition to the best one yet. But this was great.

[Corporate Natalie]

It's the right thing to do.

[Nick]

It's the right thing to do and we would support it.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Thank you both and enjoy the rest of your day.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Thanks for having us, guys.

[Corporate Natalie]

Thank you, boys.

[Jack]

Thank you, Ross.

[Nick]

What an episode. Yeah, I feel smarter. I feel kind of ready to take on the day.

[Corporate Natalie]

I feel elated. I feel uplifted.

[Nick]

I feel like I need to maybe drink a coffee.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Corporate Natalie]

Their goals. They're aspirational as hell.

[Nick]

Their goals. I love them. Every time I talk with them, I feel better. And I think you can all feel better by listening to their podcast. Truly, I can not plug it enough.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Sometimes, you know, people do 1.5 speed when they're trying to just, like, digest things quickly. I do 0.5 speed for them.

[Corporate Natalie]

Right then it sounds like a normal speed.

[Nick]

It sounds like a normal speaking voice.

[Corporate Natalie]

But Like I said, they waste no words. They say a lot of words. They waste not a single one of them.

[Nick]

Zero.

[Corporate Natalie]

It's all just so concise, so to the point and so digestible for a simple mind like myself.

[Nick]

I am a simple minded.

[Corporate Natalie]

We are simple minds here.

[Nick]

Thank you to our first time listeners.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yes, if this is the first time you're listening to us, we do have other guests that have previously graced the pod. Simone stoles off talking about the good enough enough job. How your career doesn't have to be the only thing that defines you.

[Nick]

Vivian too, if you liked some of those finance tips, she is a finance expert. Hers was a great guest episode and we also do corporate hotline episodes where.

[Corporate Natalie]

We get crazy raunchy corporate stories about the things that happens at the office and the the holiday parties, et cetera, et cetera.

[Nick]

Makes you a little less bad about blacking out at your company holiday party.

[Corporate Natalie]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Let's read one Shout out Get everyone out of here. This one is submitted by iulittle5, exclamation point. Congrats Tommy D. And Claire on your engagement.

[Corporate Natalie]

Congrats guys. And shout out to anybody who listens to T boy as well as demoted. You're obviously the cream of the crop, the most educated and also lowbrow in terms of your humor.

[Nick]

All the Yetis and the Motorheads. Yep, we hope we can do a meetup one day soon.

[Corporate Natalie]

Yep.

[Jack]

If you like the best one yet, you can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Jack]

And before you go, tell us a little bit about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey we want to.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Get to know you as a designer. You know clients want it all.

[Jack]

A stunning site that runs their business.

[Ross Pomerantz]

And scales with their success. But tight deadlines shouldn't mean compromising your vision. WIX Studio is built for designers like you. Plan sites in seconds with AI powered site mapping.

[Jack]

Then design starting in Figma or in.

[Ross Pomerantz]

The WIX Studio editor with precise layout tools.

[Jack]

Then bring your vision to life with no code, animations, AI tools and one click responsive design. Design smoother and deliver sooner.

[Ross Pomerantz]

Go to wixstudio.com.