🇺🇸 Hamilton: From Founding Father To Broadway Star

Summary

Podcast Summary: "🇺🇸 Hamilton: From Founding Father To Broadway Star"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Best One Yet
• Hosts: Jack Crivici Kramer & Nick Martell (Nick & Jack Studios)
• Episode: 🇺🇸 Hamilton: From Founding Father To Broadway Star
• Release Date: July 4, 2025

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Introduction

The Best One Yet celebrates America's Independence Day with a deep dive into the phenomenon that is Hamilton, the groundbreaking Broadway musical. Hosts Jack Crivici Kramer and Nick Martell describe this episode as their "most patriotic ever," positioning Hamilton as their favorite creative work (00:11). They set the stage for an exploration of the musical's journey, its cultural impact, and the business acumen behind its success.

The Genesis of Hamilton

The episode begins by outlining Lin-Manuel Miranda's early career. Following the success of In the Heights, Miranda finds a moment of relaxation in Mexico, where he impulsively purchases Ron Chernow's extensive biography of Alexander Hamilton (06:03). This decision becomes the catalyst for what would become Hamilton, blending historical narrative with hip-hop and modern theatricality.

Key Quote:

"He wrote most of the Federalist Papers, the writings that convince people to get on board with the new US Constitution."
— Jack Crivici Kramer (08:43)

From Idea to White House Performance

Miranda's initial attempt to introduce a rap about Alexander Hamilton at a White House event marks a pivotal moment. Despite initial nervousness, his performance captivates the audience, leading to widespread acclaim and viral online views (11:03). This breakthrough underscores the importance of seizing opportunities, even when they involve significant risks.

Key Quote:

"Do not throw away your shot."
— Nick Martell (45:26)

Navigating the Broadway Landscape

The hosts delve into the complexities of producing a Broadway show, emphasizing the high financial risks involved. With only one in five Broadway shows turning a profit, Hamilton navigates this challenging environment through innovation and strategic partnerships (24:33).

Notable Insight:

Broadway shows can cost between $8 to $12 million to launch and approximately $1 million weekly to operate, highlighting the industry's high-stakes nature (25:03).

Jeffrey Seller’s Crucial Role

Producer Jeffrey Seller emerges as a key figure in transforming Hamilton from a concept into a Broadway sensation. Drawing parallels to his previous success with Rent, Seller provides not only financial backing but also essential artistic guidance, ensuring the show's authenticity and appeal (27:10).

Notable Quote:

"Rent runs on Broadway for 12 years, earning almost 275 million bucks, and lands in the top 20 list of all time earners."
— Jack Crivici Kramer (28:34)

Development and Workshop Phases

The meticulous development process involves extensive research, workshops, and collaboration with key figures like Ron Chernow and arranger Alex Lacamore. This phase is critical in refining the narrative and musical composition, ensuring historical accuracy blended with contemporary relevance (30:14).

Key Quote:

"Creativity thrives on constraints. Otherwise you'd still be writing your sophomore year thesis."
— Tommy Kael (18:29)

Broadway Debut and Phenomenal Success

Hamilton's transition from the Public Theater to Broadway witnesses unprecedented demand, with over $27 million in advance ticket sales and sold-out performances. The show's innovative Ham4Ham performances—a series of impromptu sidewalk shows—create buzz and foster a dedicated fanbase, driving both ticket sales and cultural impact (32:07).

Notable Insight:

The Ham4Ham shows serve as a "musical growth hack," leveraging live performances to generate social media buzz and maintain high demand despite skyrocketing ticket prices (36:14).

Impact of Disney+ Streaming

In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, Disney acquires the film rights to Hamilton for $75 million, releasing it on Disney+ just in time for Independence Day. This strategic move not only provides access to a global audience but also propels Hamilton toward the billion-dollar mark by 2025, surpassing traditional Broadway revenues through streaming (42:30).

Key Quote:

"In 10 days on streaming, more people saw Hamilton than saw it in five years on Broadway."
— Nick Martell (43:44)

Legacy and Future Prospects

As Hamilton celebrates its 10th anniversary, the hosts reflect on its dual legacy as both an exclusive Broadway sensation and an accessible streaming masterpiece. They speculate on future adaptations, possibly envisioning a full-scale film adaptation akin to Wicked, further cementing Hamilton's place in cultural and financial history (44:31).

Key Quote:

"We think a full scale film adaptation of Hamilton can't be far behind our prediction."
— Jack Crivici Kramer (44:52)

Takeaways

Nick Martell: Emphasizes the importance of seizing opportunities and taking risks, mirroring Alexander Hamilton’s relentless pursuit of success despite obstacles.

Jack Crivici Kramer: Highlights the strategy of balancing exclusivity with accessibility, ensuring that Hamilton remains both a luxury experience and an inclusive cultural phenomenon.

Conclusion

Hamilton: From Founding Father To Broadway Star offers an insightful exploration of one of modern theater's most influential works. By dissecting its creation, production challenges, and meteoric rise, Jack and Nick provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of how Hamilton achieved unparalleled success and left an indelible mark on both Broadway and global audiences.

Final Quote:

"Do not throw away your shot."
— Nick Martell (45:26)

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Timestamps:

• 00:11 – Introduction to the episode's focus
• 06:03 – Lin's decision to read Ron Chernow’s biography
• 08:43 – Importance of Hamilton's contributions
• 11:03 – White House performance breakthrough
• 24:33 – Broadway’s financial landscape
• 25:03 – Cost and risks of Broadway productions
• 27:10 – Jeffrey Seller’s role and impact
• 28:34 – Financial success of Rent as a precedent
• 30:14 – Development and research phases
• 18:29 – Creativity and constraints
• 32:07 – Broadway debut and Ham4Ham strategy
• 36:14 – Ham4Ham as a growth hack
• 42:30 – Disney+ acquisition and streaming impact
• 43:44 – Streaming vs. Broadway viewership
• 44:31 – Legacy and future adaptations
• 44:52 – Speculation on future film adaptations
• 45:26 – Key takeaways and final thoughts

Note: Timestamps correspond to the transcript's time markers for reference.

Transcript

[Nick Martell]

Yetis Nick and Jack here from the T Boy studio. Happy birthday, America 249.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We whipped up a really special present for your Fourth of July weekend.

[Nick Martell]

It's actually our most patriotic episode ever. We're talking a 45 minute deep dive on the musical.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You'll hear more in a second. But we both consider this play the greatest creative work of all time.

[Nick Martell]

It's about patriotism, ambition, money, and the city of New York.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And the story of how Lin Manuel built this billion dollar Broadway business. Oh, it's wild.

[Nick Martell]

So without further ado, drop the curtains, Jack, and let's pop some profits over there.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Here's our full episode on Hamilton the Musical from our weekly show, the Best Idea Yet.

[Nick Martell]

And then besties, after it's done, go subscribe to the Best Idea yet. Because if you love T Boy, you're going to love that show too.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Nick, did I ever tell you about Mr. Kip, one of the great teachers of all time. And he was a contact men's hockey player on the side, Body checking by.

[Nick Martell]

Day, grid and papers by night kind of a thing.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

His focus was the civil rights movement. And taking this class honestly opened my eyes and made me like, aware of politics and the world. It was my political enlightening, as a great teacher does. He highlighted this moment during a civil rights protest where a man simply held a sign that said I am a man.

[Nick Martell]

Wow.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I have never forgotten it.

[Nick Martell]

Well, I dressed up as Paul Revere once for history class and I cried when someone thought I was a pirate. So it wasn't quite as deep as what you were thinking, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I think both of our experiences, Nick, show the importance of a great story in making history come alive in our minds.

[Nick Martell]

Absolutely, Jack. And the importance of a great teacher to bring those stories to life. But not all good teachers work in a classroom. Some teachers need a slightly bigger stage. What do you think? Maybe a Broadway stage?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's right, Nick. Cause today we're talking about My Name is Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, the hip hop musical about the life and times of America's first treasury secretary. It debuted on Broadway in 2015 and immediately started shattering records.

[Nick Martell]

We're talking box office Tony nominations and the number of Thomas Paine references in one night on Broadway.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Everyone lined up to see this show. From the Obamas to Oprah to Tom Hanks and Beyonce. This show redefined the modern theater going experience and brought color to an entire generation's understanding of the American revolution.

[Nick Martell]

Plus, it made an international superstar of the man who wrote the script, the. The lyrics, the music. Oh, and who played Hamilton himself? Lin Manuel Miranda. Actually, the reason I know the musical is because of you, Jack. You got me the Hamilton tickets for a Christmas present, and I've never even.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Been to the show myself. That's what a good friend I am. When I gave you those tickets, I described the Hamilton musical as one of the greatest creative accomplishments of all time.

[Nick Martell]

Hamilton also provides us with the perfect case study to understand the contradictory, counterintuitive business of Broadway. Fun fact. Broadway shows have a higher failure rate than restaurants.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So step on into the room where it happened and learn how an impulse vacation purchase led to one of the highest grossing musicals of all time and.

[Nick Martell]

How you can make the most of a sudden opportunity.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

As Paul Revere the Pirate once said, the profits are coming. The profits are coming.

[Nick Martell]

One, if by balance sheet, two if by cash flow.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Here's why Hamilton the the musical is the best idea yet.

[Nick Martell]

From Wondery and T Boy, I'm Nick Martell.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And I'm Jack Crevici Kramer.

[Nick Martell]

And this is the best idea yet. The untold origin stories of the products.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You'Re obsessed with and the bold risk takers who made them go viral. I got that feeling again Something familiar, but no. We got it coming to you. I got that feeling again they changed the game in one move. It's how they hook up. Airbnb.

[Nick Martell]

Yetis, there is nothing more powerful in life or in business than the double dip.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Dip that chip twice and don't end.

[Nick Martell]

It with the ultimate money Double dip. Hosting on Airbnb. Jack's talked so much about being a host, his friends are asking him about it. I'm getting asked about it all the time.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

One buddy is about to get married. He has no kids yet. He wants to travel the country dink style with his new wife. How is he going to pay for it? He's going to list his house on Airbnb.

[Nick Martell]

So, Basties, if you're going on vacation this summer, join the millions who host on Airbnb.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Host your whole space. Host your extra space. Host any space.

[Nick Martell]

The income from putting your home on Airbnb could pay for your whole vacay.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I've been doing it for three different properties now.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, and it's easy to set booking availability. And then when the booking comes in, Jack, you always say it just shows up in your Google Calendar.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And if you're not sure what to price your place at, check Airbnb and look at similar listings. It's very easy.

[Nick Martell]

You can double dip that chip.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host and now.

[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook Navigating Global Trade. Three insights for [e-mail] tboy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Vacation sun just hits different the rays feel warmer and the reflection sparkles more brilliantly off the rippling water than it does at home. It's summer 2008 and 28 year old Lin Manuel Miranda is lounging on a pool floating in Mexico, bobbing gently as he reads a book. This is the first time he's been able to fully relax in months. Earlier this year, Lin's first big musical, in the Heights, opened on Broadway. He wrote the music and the lyrics and he plays the lead role. He's been working on this since college, but now the show's not only up, it's it just won four Tony Awards including Best Musical and Best Score.

[Nick Martell]

This is a massive come up for this New York and Kid from Inwood, the neighborhood at the northern tip of Manhattan mere blocks from where in the Heights the musical is set.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

As a kid, Lin used to commute from his mostly Dominican neighborhood to the mostly white Upper east side for school. He became a cross cultural ambassador, loving both hip hop and and Broadway musicals.

[Nick Martell]

I'm picturing him walking down Park Avenue, Jack his walkman playing Naughty by Nature's Opp followed by I Dream a Dream from Les Miserables.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But now, all grown up, Lin has managed to translate his corner of New York City for the Broadway going world in the form of song, dance and rhymes.

[Nick Martell]

And creating in the Heights has been an exhilarating ride, but also a completely exhausting ride. So here's what Lynn is thinking. Let's tap the understudy to perform a week of shows instead of me. Lynn and his girlfriend Vanessa, they're going to take a little downtime down in Mexico.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Lynn even has a vacation book to read. He bought it on impulse, a biography of a semi obscure figure from American history. The kind of book you snag at the airport kiosk right as your flight is boarding.

[Nick Martell]

If that flight is really long across multiple continents because this book is the 800 page Alexander Hamilton by historian Ron Chernow. This is an encyclopedic tome that covers thousands of letters, speeches, historical records of this lesser known founding father. This book is dense, but it also tells the story of a young Caribbean immigrant born to a single mother who rises from poverty to become America's first Treasury Secretary.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Alexander Hamilton survives hardship, illness and the death of his mom to earn a.

[Nick Martell]

Scholarship to King's College, later renamed Columbia University.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So he emigrates to New York while it's still a British colony.

[Nick Martell]

Later, he joins the American Revolution as Washington's right hand man and together, spoiler, they beat back the British to help win America its independence.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hamilton becomes the intellectual architect of our system of governance that we still have today because he wrote most of the Federalist Papers, the writings that convince people to get on board with the new US Constitution.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, also, there's a little tea involved here too. He withstands a sex scandal, loses his eldest son in a duel, and he shot and killed himself in his own duel with Vice President Aaron Burr, all before his 50th birthday.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Chernow's biography reads like a cross between Johnny Tremaine and Tupac's Only God Can Judge Me because Hamilton wasn't just a Founding father, this man was a G.

[Nick Martell]

He beefed with everyone.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Not just Aaron Burr, but a couple future presidents and a literal bishop. Lynn is sitting in that floaty and he can't shake the idea that Hamilton and Burr are the Enlightenment era, Tupac and Bigg. Tragic ending at all. He cannot put this book down.

[Nick Martell]

Think about this. How much? One impulsive reading choice from like a Hudson newsstand at the airport Terminal 3 is going to alter the theater and entertainment landscape forever. Jack. What if he'd picked up a Dan Brown mystery instead?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

When he gets back from vacation, Lynn tracks down Ron Chernow's personal email address, the historian who wrote this incredible story.

[Nick Martell]

And Lynn offers Ron tickets to in the Heights and even asks Ron out for coffee. Ron, to his delight, says yes, and this one coffee together will kick off a series of events that will transform both of their lives.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Picture cascading verses jotted into a notebook between stops on the southbound A train. Lin is dreaming up ideas for his first rap song about Alexander Hamilton. And that's all it is at first, just one song. He thinks it might be the start of a concept album, a Hamilton mixtape, if you will.

[Nick Martell]

But Lynn's day job is performing the lead role in in the Heights, a two and a half Hour per show, eight shows a week commitment at the Richard Rogers Theater on Broadway in West 46th Street. And that takes a whole ton of focus. And it also takes even more physical exertion. So he's going to leave this Alexander Hamilton pot to simmer? Maybe he scribbles a few lyrics on his commute or hums a melody line into his phone's voice memo app. Either way, it's his subway side hustle.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Then, in the spring of 2009, Lyn gets a call from an unlisted number, but instead of a fake bill collector, it's the White House.

[Nick Martell]

Call accepted.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Newly elected President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama are hosting a night of poetry and music at the White House. Spike Lee will be there.

[Nick Martell]

James Earl Jones is going to be there.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The White House staffer on the phone wants to know, would Lin be interested in performing?

[Nick Martell]

Was Martin Van Buren the eighth President of the United States? The answer is yes, we'll take it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They invite Lynn to perform something from in the Heights. You know, the one that won all the Tony Awards. Makes sense, but Lin is ambitious, like the founding father he's recently become obsessed with. He sees a window of opportunity here, and Lyn shoots his shot. He asks, could I try a rap about Alexander Hamilton instead?

[Nick Martell]

There is a slight pause on the line.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That poetry doesn't sound very def jam at all. But hey, the 44th president campaigned on change, so the staffer says yes.

[Nick Martell]

And before he knows it, Lynn is on his way down to D.C. cut.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

To the White House East Room. The ceiling drips with low hanging crystal chandeliers. In this room, some of the most powerful people in the American government are gathering, all decked out in black tie, including the President and First Lady.

[Nick Martell]

Joining Lin at the piano is his musician friend and collaborator, Alex Lacamore. Alex did the orchestral arrangements for in the Heights, and Lin trusts him completely, even if his guts say, what the heck are we doing?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

When Lin gets the microphone, he starts talking a little too quickly. His voice sounds confident, but underneath, this guy is bubbling with nerves.

[Nick Martell]

I'm thrilled the White House called me.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Tonight because I'm actually working on a hip hop album about the life of someone I think embodies hip hop.

[Nick Martell]

Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton. You laugh, but it's true. You know, a lot of ums in there. A little awkward. This isn't his cleanest work.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This audience is clearly expecting a few rhyming jokes about taxation without representation, like an SNL spoof or something. But then Alex lets rip with the opening chords. How does a bastard orphan, son of a whore and a Scotsman dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot. As the song progresses, the laughs die down, the energy shifts, chuckles become nods as Lynn finds his flow.

[Nick Martell]

Forget the nerdy satire, this is an epic poem about the man who made the most of every opportunity, achieving the impossible. Until finally Lynn gets to the song's dark punchline. Me.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I'm the damn fool that shot him. Alexander Hamilton. Lynn and Alex leave the stage in a blur of applause. Lynn starts questioning everything. I saw Obama whispering something to Michelle. What was he saying?

[Nick Martell]

Turns out Obama was was saying that his Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner needs to hear this. The song first conceived in 10 second snippets between 190th street and Times Square. It is a hit.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Video from the performance is posted to whitehouse.gov and then to YouTube views start pinging around the world. This White House debut is more than just an incredible night. It's one of the great product demos of all time. And he nailed it.

[Nick Martell]

Okay Jack, so four minutes down, only.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Two and a half hours of musical to go.

[Nick Martell]

ZipRecruiter Ah, speed and quality. Not typically a combo you get together.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I mean Nick, you can get a fast food hamburger, but we hope you like it well done.

[Nick Martell]

Or Jack, you can get a 10 second haircut, but we hope you like bangs.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, there is an exception to this unwritten rule. If you're hiring, you can find candidates fast who are also extremely qualified for your job.

[Nick Martell]

Just use ZipRecruiter and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

Again that ziprecruiter.com tboy ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire. Yes it is.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

After White House Poetry Night, Lynn starts working slowly.

[Nick Martell]

Slow by Lin Manuel Miranda standards, and is still pretty fast because Lynn shares quite a few traits with Alexander Hamilton, they both work non stop. Lin is still performing in the Heights eight shows a week, so he's actually creating a second creative baby while he's taking care of his first.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And during all this, Lynn also gets hired to help write the score for another musical, Bring It On. He guest stars on network TV shows. Oh, and he and his girlfriend Vanessa get married.

[Nick Martell]

So Lynn is basically going full founder mode on his life and career. But two and a half years after that legendary White House poetry jam, Lin has a grand total of three songs.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, three songs is more than I've ever written, but at this rate, Lin is in danger of losing momentum from his big night. However, Nick Lin has a secret weapon. You see, when he gets excited about something, he doesn't keep it to himself. He likes to knock ideas around with trusted collaborators, basically open sourcing his vision.

[Nick Martell]

Kind of reminds us of that proverb, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We already know he's been working things out with his arranger, Alex Lacamore, but the next person Lyn turns to is his in the Heights director, a man named Thomas Kael, or Tommy to his friends. Tommy helped Lin develop In the Heights from a tiny workshop production all the way to Broadway. And one thing he knows about Tommy, Tommy is a great collaborator.

[Nick Martell]

And one thing Tommy knows about Lynn, he needs a deadline. So Tommy gently suggests that Lynn set a more ambitious goal for the Hamilton mixtape than one song a year. They're gonna need to set some benchmarks here, graph some internal deadlines. And honestly, it's a good lesson for all of us. Creativity thrives on constraints. Otherwise you'd still be writing your sophomore year thesis.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But just as they're working all that out, a natural deadline falls in their lap. Lynn is offered a slot in Lincoln Center's American Songbook series, an artsy annual tribute to American music on Manhattan's Upper west side.

[Nick Martell]

The date Lynn is offered is January 11th.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

January 11th.

[Nick Martell]

I know you're thinking, man, Hamilton's birthday. What are the odds? How can Lynn say no In a.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Matter of months, the Hamilton song count goes from three to 12, with each one telling a piece of Hamilton's rise on January 11, 2012, the first version of the Hamilton Mixtape plays before a cozy audience of about 450 people in Lincoln Center's Allen Room.

[Nick Martell]

The performers are lit in deep royal blue. The drum kit sprawls across the stage. Everyone in this ensemble wears suits. Like after the performance they're gonna pop next door to watch the Philharmonic.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The performers are mostly friends and collaborators Lynn and Tommy have worn worked with before, for example, a tall, straight backed actor who never skips bicep day. I'm talking about Christopher Jackson.

[Nick Martell]

Now Lynn and Tommy know Chris from In the Heights and from a freestyle rap group they formed years earlier. And they trust him with one of the mixtape's most critical roles, George Washington. Can I be real a second for just a millisecond? Let down my guard and tell the people how I feel a second Now I'm the model of the modern major general.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

He is so instrumental to developing George Washington. Chris will never have to audition for future productions.

[Nick Martell]

Chris's casting represents more than just a talented actor winning a juicy part because this choice will actually come to define one of Hamilton's greatest impacts as a piece of theater.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

In real life, George Washington was a lifelong slaveholder, but in Hamilton, that slaveholder is played by a black American actor. In fact, every major character will be played by a non white actor with the exception of King George, played by a series of smirking white male tenors.

[Nick Martell]

This non traditional casting, it is very intentional.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Lynn and Tommy want the Hamilton Mixtape to bring history into modern terms. The heroes of Hamilton's story are young, they're idealistic, they want to change the world. And in an era when America has just elected its first black president, what better time to give the dead presidents an update? This way, everyone in the audience, citizen or immigrant, can see themselves in the American story.

[Nick Martell]

So George Washington is black and so is Aaron Burke and Thomas Jefferson. Oh, and playing Alexander Hamilton, the orphaned illegitimate Scotsman from the West Indies is a Puerto Rican Pulitzer Prize finalist from Inwood Lynn himself.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hey, when you're writing the show, you get to shoot your shot.

[Nick Martell]

Audible T Boy Trivia Here we go. Yetis what is the biggest thing you can pack for vacation but not have to check your luggage?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I think it's a leading question based on my Audible.

[Nick Martell]

I just said a second ago. Yeah, the answer is the Audible app. It's the Audible app.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

You gotta stick all your clothes in a suitcase, but you get thousands of audio titles in your pocke.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Right now I'm on a World War II kick. I'm listening to Doris Kearns Goodwin on FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Nick Martell]

How we created the arsenal of democracy. It is Jack's Roman Empire right now.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Now, when we're packing for our summer vacation, we don't forget our toothbrush and we don't forget our Audible.

[Nick Martell]

There's more to imagine when you listen.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free.

[Nick Martell]

Visit audible.comt boy that's audible.comtboy open phone. You know, Jack, whenever I call a local business, odds are it's because I want to pay them for something.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

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[Jack Crevici Kramer]

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[Nick Martell]

That'S O P E N P-H-O-N-E.com tboy.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And if you have existing numbers with another service, OpenPhone will port them over at no extra charge.

[Nick Martell]

OpenPhone no missed calls, no missed customers.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Let's start with the good news. The Hamilton mixtape's 2012 debut at Lincoln center gets rave reviews from everyone, including the New York Times. Their critic writes.

[Nick Martell]

Is the Hamilton Mixtape a future Broadway musical? A concept album? Does it even Matter what it is is hot.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Killer review. But in practical terms, yeah, it does matter what form Hamilton takes next. The difference between a song cycle with a jazz ensemble and a full Broadway production is hundreds of artists and millions of dollars.

[Nick Martell]

By Broadway production, we mean one of the 41 official Broadway venues in New York City, the top rung of American theater. These ornate 100 year old theaters are stuffed into a few blocks in midtown Manhattan, where Broadway intersects with with Times Square.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

In fact, that's one of the shockingly practical reasons the business of Broadway is so complicated. The real estate is so limited. There are just those 41 theaters owned by just three companies who have monopolistic power over the producers of the shows. This is why musicals often follow up their Broadway runs with a national tour. The touring model helps productions recoup the expenses of Broadway by literally taking the show on the road.

[Nick Martell]

But in the meantime. Jack, turn off your ringer and pass me the playbill. Let's dive a little bit deeper into the business engine of Broadway.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Fun fact. Broadway generates nearly $15 billion annually and supports 96,000 jobs.

[Nick Martell]

It is both a tourism driver and a cultural institution.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But Broadway shows are expensive to produce, especially musicals. In the mid 2000 teens, when Lin is trying to mount Hamilton, straight plays, as in no singing and dancing, cost between 3 and $6 million to mount on Broadway, plus a half a million per week to operate.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, and for musicals, double it. Eight to $12 million in fixed costs just to launch, and then after that, a million dollars per week to operate the thing. Because musicals have big chorus numbers and a full orchestra, which means even bigger one weekly payrolls.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You gotta pay for all those oboes.

[Nick Martell]

Now, Broadway shows, they're not only expensive, they're also really risky. In fact, the Broadway world and the venture capital world may actually have a lot in common. Only one in five Broadway shows are profitable. That's right. 80% of what you see, enjoy and clap to on Broadway is losing money faster than they can make it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Like VCs hoping for a unicorn IPO, you're betting on a few big hits out of the bunch.

[Nick Martell]

Which is why they say, yeah, you can make a killing on Broadway. You just can't make a living.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Nobody is safe from flopping. And the ghosts of those flops haunt every Broadway producer.

[Nick Martell]

And it is to this landscape that Lin Manuel Miranda and his team find themselves navigating. Of the 46 shows on Broadway in 2012, only about a third of them are original pieces. Everything else is either a revival, a film adaptation, or both.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Elf The Musical, A Christmas Story, the Musical, Ghost the Musical. You get the idea.

[Nick Martell]

So what this means is that a musical about a guy best known from your 8th grade history textbook. Kind of a long shot.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Another risk factor for Hamilton. It's a hip hop musical. At a time when Broadway audiences skew over 40 and one white.

[Nick Martell]

Almost 80% of all tickets sold in the 2014 season are going to white ticket buyers. Leaving alone.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Whether these audiences will embrace the diverse casting plan, what are the chances your aunt Muriel gets Lynn's Biggie Smalls references?

[Nick Martell]

So even with its Tony Award winning creative team and the buzz in the press, a Hamilton musical is facing an uphill climb. Wrong topic, wrong music, wrong audience. This thing is going to need a backing producer who believes in the show despite all of those risks.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Enter a mild mannered, understated producer who will pull off the unimaginable. Jeffrey Seller doesn't look like a fortune teller. He's got a slight build, curly hair and shows up to work in a bicycle helmet. But make no mistake, Nick, Jeffrey Seller can see the future because Jeffrey Seller.

[Nick Martell]

Was one of the lead producers for in the Heights. Right away he recognized Lin Manuel Miranda as a generational talent.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But back up a second, Nick. Before Jeffrey was a big shot producer, he was a young show booker in New York just hoping for a chance to produce and direct. One day by chance, he attended a tiny workshop by a little known composer. It was so bare bones that the actors held their scripts on music stands.

[Nick Martell]

But in that small space, Jeffrey saw the next runaway hit and the talent of its creator, Jonathan Larson. Three years later, Jeffrey was co lead producer and financier on the smash hit Rent.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Rent is a perfect case study in taking risky material mainstream. It's a 1990s take on the 1890s opera La Boheme, about a poor seamstress in Paris and her artsy bohemian friends. Rent updates the story though to New York with a multiracial cast playing gay and trans characters, drug addicts and gasp, performance artists.

[Nick Martell]

Several of the characters have HIV or AIDS, a hot button issue back in the late 90s. So when the show opens, Jeffrey watches older audience members actually walk out of the theater.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

To some producers, that real time feedback might be a cue to retool the show. But Jeffrey recognizes that Rent is in a classic five star, one star situation, as in the only kind of reviews you want for a new product.

[Nick Martell]

Collecting 5 star and 1 star reviews helps you hone in on your core audience. The same things making grandpa walk out or making young people fall in love with and embrace the show. So Rent runs on Broadway for 12 years, earning almost 275 million bucks, and lands in the top 20 list of all time earners.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

With this experience under his belt, you can understand why Jeffrey might be excited to take a chance on his Hamilton. From the moment he sees the Lincoln center concert, he's nudging Lynn and Tommy about mounting a full production.

[Nick Martell]

And Jeffrey turns out to be the perfect addition to the team. He's not just a wallet. He gives critical artistic feedback that they can trust. Because Lynn and Tommy, they know Jeffrey isn't going to ask for changes just to make the show more profitable. He wants them to make the best show. Period.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

What comes next is an intensive period of research, writing and workshops. Call it theatrical R D. Lynn spends months burying himself in Alexander's voluminous letters. He consults with the biographer Ron Chernow to make sure his facts are all straight. Lynn and Tommy even make a research pilgrimage across the Hudson river to the site of Hamilton's final duel so they can conjure the scene on stage.

[Nick Martell]

While Lynn is covering the content, Jeffrey Seller is cfoing the whole financial side. He's raising money, creating budgets, wrangling partnerships to workshop the show, meaning putting it on its feet with actors and musicians.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

They call this taking a play from page to stage, and it often happens far away from New York's theater district.

[Nick Martell]

So Lynn and his crew, they start workshopping the show upstate and later down in Hell's Kitchen in Manhattan, collecting essential cast members along the way, like speed rapper Daveed Diggs as Thomas Jefferson, the crooner Leslie Odom, Jun Aaron Burr, Renee Elise Goldsberg as Hamilton's sister in law that he's maybe in love with Angelica, and each actor they find bring another key piece of the story to life.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And In March of 2014, it's announced that the show is heading off Broadway to the historic Public Theater in the East Village of New York. Not as the Hamilton mixtape, but simply as Hamilton.

[Nick Martell]

It's cleaner.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The AC is blasting inside the Richard Rogers Theater because outside it's a scor Two hours before showtime, Lynn is already backstage, trying not to be nervous. This is the very same theater on West 46th street where Lynn's last show in the Heights ran for 1,100 performances. So he knows this plays backwards and forwards, but right now it feels foreign. The catwalk above his head seems a little too high. The lights feel a little too bright.

[Nick Martell]

It's July 13, 2015, the day of Hamilton's first Broadway performance, and man What a trip it has been.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Remember the Public Theater downtown? That off Broadway space with just 300 seats? Hamilton sold out all 119 performances there. Hamilton is riding a wave of PR buzz unseen in the industry in decades.

[Nick Martell]

But here we are on Broadway. And from the Lincoln center show to the developmental workshops, everyone in the New York theater scene has been buzzing about this Hamilton production.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Even the technical crew, the veteran stage folk who build sets and hang lights for hundreds of productions, were whispering that Hamilton is something special.

[Nick Martell]

So after a brief hiatus to fine tune the show, Hamilton moves from the East Village up to its new home at the Richard Rogers Theater on Broadway. And expectations could not be higher.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Even as Lynn paces backstage before the first preview, the show has already brought in more than $27 million in advance ticket sales. The show's basically sold out for months before the curtain even rises. It's among the biggest pre opening totals in Broadway history. The hype was real.

[Nick Martell]

That $27 million in pre sales, that's over double the initial $12.5 million investment. Not too shabby.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But it's exactly in moments like these that doubts start to creep in. What if the show just doesn't translate to Broadway? What if the tourists don't love us the way Public Theater subscribers do? What if this whole time, Lynn and his crew have been in their own hype bubble? But just then, someone points Lynn towards the stage door. Because outside on 46th street, people have started to gather for the lottery.

[Nick Martell]

Wait, is this like the Mega Millions drawing tonight? What's going on?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

No, it is not, Nick. This is Hamilton's ticket lottery for same day Rush tickets. Here's the deal. A small number of front row seats are held back each performance until right before showtime.

[Nick Martell]

Broadway shows actually have done this for years. The cheapest Rush tickets usually going for about 20 bucks a piece. A discount to make theater more accessible for folks with a lot of love but very little money.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's a great tradition of Broadway.

[Nick Martell]

It is.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Instead of $20 for these same day Rush tickets, Hamilton's Rush tickets are just $10. And why is that, Nick?

[Nick Martell]

Well, because that's the bill with Mr. Alex Hamilton's face on it.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's hand for hand. Yeah, you pay a Hamilton to see Hamilton.

[Nick Martell]

So here in the chatter outside, Lynn pops out to see the ham for ham hopefuls just as the lottery is about to be drawn.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So he steps out onto 46th street hours before his first show, and finds himself face to face with 700 people.

[Nick Martell]

700 people. That is 14 New York City buses worth of humans, all of them waiting for the chance to win one of just 21 tickets to tonight's opening preview.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Lin feels this rush of gratitude towards the crowd at this moment, everyone clamoring to experience this show he's been working on for seven years. So he gives them a word of encouragement.

[Nick Martell]

So thanks to you, we're probably going to be here a so don't be disappointed if you don't win today. I love you very much.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

When Lin goes on stage that night, sure enough, the front row section is filled with young people hanging on every word. It is exactly the energy you want on your first night.

[Nick Martell]

For Hamilton's signature song, My Shot, the front row is nodding and mouthing along already because they know every word well before the song enters the cultural zeitgeist. I am not throwing away my shot now. At the next performance, Lin says hi to the Rush crowd again. Only this time, instead of a quick hello, he creates an original three minute sidewalk performance just for this crowd. Even those who don't win tickets, which is most of the people there, come away having seen something totally one of a kind.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

This kicks off a totally new Broadway tradition. The Ham for ham performances most Wednesdays and Saturdays are Lynn plus rotating cast members, special guests, even actors from other Broadway shows. They burst out of the stage door and perform something special for that lottery crowd. These performances are short and silly, but they're also one of a kind and they make everyone standing there hoping to get their hands on a ticket they probably won't get. It makes them all feel really special.

[Nick Martell]

Plus, let's talk a little strategy here. These hand for hand mini concerts are basically a musical growth hack. The sidewalk lottery tickets are already attractive to customers, but the lottery itself isn't new. Most Broadway shows, they have done this.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Since Rent, but these random live performances, that's totally innovative. Yes, they become a reason to keep trying to get into Hamilton 6, 7, 12 times, all while posting about it.

[Nick Martell]

On social to drive even more demand for the show. And from a financial perspective, the Ham4Ham shows are also a way to democratize the experience a little because ironically, Hamilton, a musical about the rise of a penniless orphan, is getting more expensive by the day.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Ticket prices continue to soar through the start of 2016, going from about $350 on average to more than 500 if you can find a ticket at all.

[Nick Martell]

And once online scalpers get involved, we're talking up to $11,000 a ticket on the secondary market has become the Louis Vuitton of live shows. The Maserati and musicals. It is now a luxury product.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Even when the original cast starts departing, ticket prices stay high. Because Hamilton dominates the 2016 Tony Awards, a record 16 nominations in 13 categories with 11 wins. That's the second most in Tony history. Lin wins a Pulitzer prize and a MacArthur genius grant.

[Nick Martell]

It becomes so hard to get these tickets. Lin will make fun of it later when he hosts Saturday Night Live, but.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The luxury ification of Hamilton Neck it gets Lin and his team thinking. What's the legacy of this musical going to be? Is it about a sense of belonging? How immigrants, poor people, people of color all deserve a place in the American story?

[Nick Martell]

Or is this the story of creating the most exclusive show in town like an amaze Birkin bag?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's a complicated question with no easy answer until they score one of the biggest content acquisition deals of all time.

[Nick Martell]

This production is about to go from a Hamilton to a billion.

[C]

You know how we all have that one friend we go to with all our financial questions? I'm talking the one who gives you advice like no one else can. Well, meet Experian, your bff. And by that I mean big financial friend. I'm telling you, Experian is gonna be your Go to app when it comes to taking control of your finances. And this big financial friend is always there for you. Just hanging out on your phone where we all kinda are. Anyway, Experian has a bunch of legit ways to help you save. And get this, the Experian app lets you check your FICO score. Matches you with credit cards and a bunch more totally BFF kind of things to help you manage your finances. Bet your other BFFs can't do all that, huh? Anyway, it's easy to have this big financial friend by your side. Just download the Experian app and get started for free. Trust me, you'll be up to speed with this BFF in no time. Results will vary. Credit offers, approvals and reward programs Based on FICO Score 8 model and subject to lender terms. Offers not available in all states. See experian.com for details.

[D]

Inspired by the hit Wondery podcast Against the Odds comes the gripping guidebook how to Survive against the Odds Tales and Tips for Animal Attacks and Natural Disasters. This might just be the most important book you'll ever read. Go inside life or death situations where everyday people survived nature's most extreme scenarios and learn how you can too. In these tales, you'll hear about the grit, willpower and know how needed to endure shipwrecks, alligator attacks, earthquakes and more. You'll learn from experts, including top doctors, about what happens to your body and mind in life threatening situations. Plus important tips on what to do and equally important, what not to do when faced with a situation that is truly against the odds. Go to www.survivalguidebook.com to get your copy of how to Survive against the Odds today. Or visit your favorite bookstore.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It'S just past midnight July 3, 2020. You're likely not planning your Independence Day party because it's the thick of COVID lockdowns.

[Nick Martell]

Broadway has been shuttered since March 12. The lights are dark. The pause was supposed to be just one month, but it's going to last for more than a year. Billions in tourism dollars lost. Not to mention those 96,000 jobs. We're talking actors, dancers, designers, box office staff all in limbo.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hamilton has gone dark too. Not just on Broadway, but it's robust touring productions that had been taking the show all over the U.S. canada, Australia, even the UK.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, King George's backyard.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The original Broadway cast had long since gone on to other gigs and Lin Manuel Miranda? He's busy adapting in the Heights to the big screen and writing songs for Disney's Moana.

[Nick Martell]

You're welcome. But now, as you sit on your couch thinking about how to keep the kids six feet apart, when you bust out the Fourth of July sparklers, you notice a new icon on your Disney app. Gold background, black star and the silhouette of a man pointing up to the sky.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hamilton the Movie Musical is available for anyone with a Disney plus account or.

[Nick Martell]

Anyone still borrowing their ex roommate Timmy's password. But wait, sorry Jack, how did we get here exactly? Can we please rewind the tape a bit?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Turns out back in June 2016, the Hamilton team did something really smart. They captured a live performance of the original cast on film.

[Nick Martell]

And now they didn't know what they would use this for yet. But they didn't just stick a camera at the back of the house during a performance. They invested in spending three days filming, capturing two live performances plus another day when the house was empty. This allows them to capture all the big close ups and set up complex shots using cranes and a dolly track.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

The end result was a theatrical recording unlike any other.

[Nick Martell]

It puts the viewer right up close.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

To the action, just like you would see if you got one of those Rush seats. You can see Thomas Jefferson saliva as he's spitting lyrics at a Kendrick Lamar pace.

[Nick Martell]

Tommy Kail directs, the cast shines and the project goes stealthily into post production until February 2020.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

That's when Disney buys the worldwide film rights to this high budget musical for $75 million.

[Nick Martell]

It's one of the biggest acquisition deals ever for a live performance. Disney will match this deal in 2024 for the rights to Taylor Swift's eras concert movie. Hamilton sets the price for Taylor Swift.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Disney originally planned to give the film a theatrical release, but when the pandemic hits, people stop going to the movies and both streamers and viewers get desperate for new content. Plus, Disney wanted to get some new subscribers signed up. So boom. Disney pivots and releases Hamilton on Disney just in time for Independence Day.

[Nick Martell]

So bringing Hamilton to streaming gives regular folks, especially families, a chance to reach back in time and get their own front row seat to the most exclusive ticket in the world.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

And it gave us all a patriotic way to celebrate America's birthday during the lockdown.

[Nick Martell]

For context, about 1300 people per show watched Hamilton Live, which means about 2.6 million people saw Hamilton Live during its first five years on Broadway. But for contrast, in the first 10 days on Disney, roughly 2.7 million million households streamed Hamilton.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

You're telling me in 10 days on streaming, more people saw Hamilton than saw it in five years on Broadway?

[Nick Martell]

That's exactly what I'm saying, Jack. This Disney deal, combined with the Broadway ticket revenue, the touring and the music streaming, it pushes Hamilton to the billion dollar mark by 2025.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Only the fourth Broadway musical ever to achieve this feat.

[Nick Martell]

And based on the ticket prices, amazingly, it appears that the Disney plus streaming version did not cannibalize the Broadway elite luxury version. That still continued.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

I could attest, because I bought you those tickets.

[Nick Martell]

Damn, I did. I did. I appreciate you going into debt for me on that one, Jack. For nice gift, but add it all.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Up, Nick, and this founding father has officially reached unicorn status. Stick that on the back of the $10 bill.

[Nick Martell]

And after 18 months of COVID induced shutdown down, the show reopens on Broadway September 2021, where it is still running today. In fact, this year marks Hamilton's 10th anniversary.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Hashtag Hamilton.

[Nick Martell]

We don't know where it would go next, but I think we got a.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Couple of guesses right. You saw how well Wicked did as a film adaptation of a Broadway show.

[Nick Martell]

Good point, man.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Over $700 million in global box office revenue and counting. We think a full scale film adaptation of Hamilton can't be far behind our prediction.

[Nick Martell]

Michael B. Jordan plays Washington.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Benedict Cumberbatch plays King George.

[Nick Martell]

Oh, and then Jack, knowing how Hollywood works, are they gonna find a way to turn Hamilton into a trilogy? Ben Franklin freestyle is about discovering electricity. Let's make it happen. Just you wait.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Just you wait. So, Nick, now that we've heard the story of Hamilton, what's your takeaway?

[Nick Martell]

My takeaway, Jack, is straight from the musical. Do not throw away your shot. Alexander Hamilton took his shot every time he was given the chance, even if he didn't totally feel ready.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

In fact, the only time he did throw away a shot, it was during that duel that ended his life. Pretty meta, right?

[Nick Martell]

But as the creative force behind the musical, Lin Manuel Miranda also had to shoot his shot and make the most of every opportunity, even if it was a total gamble.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Like when he decided to perform a brand new song at the White House poetry Jam. That was a huge risk, but he took it because he saw the upside and it changed his life.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, if you, like, sit down and actually weigh the pros and cons of that decision. The risk was he embarrasses himself. Okay. The upside is that he ends up disrupting the entire theater industry. Do not throw away your shot. But, Jack, what about you? What is your takeaway?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Well, I'm using another line from Hamilton. Customers want to be in the room. Room where it happens. When you have an exclusive product like Hamilton tickets, you face a key decision. Embrace that exclusivity or find ways to let more people in.

[Nick Martell]

And both approaches work. Like we learned in our Ferrari episode, Ferrari manufactures scarcity by making, as Enzo Ferrari put it, one car less than the market desires.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

But Hamilton's exclusivity wasn't manufactured like Ferrari's was. Theaters have physical limits of size and actors capacities to do only so many shows a week. So unlike Ferrari, the Hamilton creative team wanted everyone who wanted to see the show to be able to do it. Hence the lottery tickets, the Broadway cast album, the national tours, multiple cities, and finally the Disney plus streaming deal.

[Nick Martell]

Kind of the rare case where they had both a luxury product and an accessible product. Because customers want to be in the room where it happens, it's up to you to decide whether you let him in. Before we go, it is time for our absolute favorite part of the show, the best facts yet.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

These are the hero stats, the facts, and the surprises we discovered in our research but couldn't fit into the story.

[Nick Martell]

All right, Jack, let's go. And a 5 and a 6 and a 7 and 8.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Today, it may seem obvious that Lin Manuel Miranda would play Alexander or Hamilton. But early in the development process, Lynn actually couldn't decide whether he should play Hamilton. The impulsive genius in a hurry who can't keep his mouth shut.

[Nick Martell]

Or Burr, the other main character of the play, whose whole thing is waiting and waiting for the right opportunity.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Lynn identifies with both, but decides to go for Ham, of course, because he rarely gets the chance to play someone so cocky.

[Nick Martell]

And so the role of Burr, by the way, went to the great Leslie Odom Jr. Who who won a Tony Award for Best actor. Oh, and breaking news, he happens to be returning to the role for 10 weeks this September.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Might want to hop on that ticket app right now if you want to see Leslie Odom Jr. As Aaron Burr.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, pause the pod. One sec, Jack.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

All right, Nick, last fact. Several scenes in Hamilton take place in a tavern where Alexander and his revolutionary friends literally raise a glass to freedom. This is because historically, the Founding fathers spent most of the revolution pretty tipsy. Clean water in the colonies was hard to cover come by. So the Founding fathers mostly drank Alex, who preferred wine.

[Nick Martell]

America. It didn't run on Duncan. I ran on Sam Adams. Yeah, but Jack, before we go, I gotta ask. Considering Mr. Kip is absolutely listening to today's episode, what grade do you think he's given us on this analysis of Hamilton?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Mr. Kip, drop a comment and let us know. And that is why Hamilton is the best idea.

[Nick Martell]

Besties. That's just one of our episodes from our weekly show, the Best idea yet.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

We've also gone deep on the Patagonia fleece, on mtv, on the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.

[Nick Martell]

Jack. How about Ferrari? The Tommy Bahama beach chair? Juicy Couture's tracksuit?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Our most popular episode so far.

[Nick Martell]

Yeah, what is it, Jack?

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Costco's Kirkland Brand?

[Nick Martell]

Yeah. Yeah, it was Costco. Everyone loves a Costco story.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

So tap the link in the episode description to follow the best idea yet. And listen every week.

[Nick Martell]

Because if you love what Jack and I deliver for you every day with T Boy, then you're gonna love the best idea yet.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

It's like T Boy, but twice as long and twice as deep.

[Nick Martell]

Go subscribe and we'll see you Monday.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

If you like the best one yet, you can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts prime.

[Nick Martell]

Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us a.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Little bit about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Nick Martell]

We want to get to know you.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Wait, you're not a Hotels.com member, so.

[Nick Martell]

You'Re choosing to pay full price.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Did you not hear the song? How could you not be a member and save up to 20%. That's less than 50%. But it's more than zero percent.

[Nick Martell]

You're welcome. See, the math is mathing.

[Jack Crevici Kramer]

Save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels with hotels dot com.