← The Best One Yet
The Best One Yet
🌮 “Choco Taco 2.0” — Salt & Straw’s Taco Bell collab. Electric Cars’ last call. Interview with Friend AI’s CEO. +AOL RIP
00:33:20
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- [00:01]
A
This is Nick, this is Jack. It's Friday, The Real Friday, October 3rd. And today's pod is the best one yet. This is a T Boy, the top.
- [00:10]
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Three pop business news stories you need to know today.
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A
Now, Yetis, you may have noticed today's pod is a little longer than usual because Jack and I got a surprise for you at the end.
- [00:19]
B
Our third story is a special story with a special guest.
- [00:22]
A
Okay, but in the meantime, Jack, we got a government shutdown, stocks are at an all time high, and Taylor Swift is launching an album today.
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B
Plus, it's Mean girls day.
- [00:30]
A
It's October 3rd. But in the meantime, Jack, we got three fantastic stories for today's special. T Boy, what do we got on the pod?
- [00:36]
B
For our first story, no industry is facing more controversy these days than ice cream, including the death of a fan favorite, the Choco Taco.
- [00:46]
A
But salt and straw and Taco Bell just teamed up to resurrect the Choco Taco from the dead.
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For our second story, electric cars just had their best quarter ever, but it was unfortunately, in many ways, their last quarter ever.
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The golden era of EVs is over, and its end can be explained by cannabis.
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And our third and final story. Remember the story we did earlier this week on Friend, the AI wearable companion that took over the New York City subway?
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A
Here's the surprise. Jack and I got the Friend founder on this podcast and he's announcing their next big move.
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Friend is making a movie spoiler. But Yetis, before we hit that wonderful mix of stories, I mean, Jackson, no.
- [01:27]
A
Better mix to go into the weekend with. I love the mix, man.
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The biggest acquisition of the year isn't financially the biggest, it's emotionally the biggest. And we'll give you a three word hint for who's being acquired.
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A
You've got mail.
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It's aol. Yetis. Here's the news. AOL is reportedly being sold to Bending Spoons, an Italian tech company, for $1.4 billion.
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AOL. Three letters. Once worth 200 billion bucks, now just $1.4 billion.
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AOL, it' 99% off.
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A
It's like 1/5 of a lift these days. Easy.
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B
America Online was critical to the plot of the great Rom com. You've got mail.
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A
But today AOL is making MySpace look like ChatGPT.
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Mom, get off the phone. I'm trying to get on aol.
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I'm sorry, Jack, one sec. Jimmy, get off the Internet. I'm trying to phone your father.
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But the most valuable asset on AOL's balance sheet.
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A
What is it?
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B
Jack, it's the screen name.
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A
Screen names, the tattoo of the digital world.
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B
This is Jack. Here's the screen name I came up with when I was 10. JK baseball 5.
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A
Lame.
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Super lame. No creativity.
- [02:35]
A
I went the opposite direction. Jack. My screen name was Faceoff Guy 22.
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Well, similar in that we both wanted everyone to know we played sports.
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A
But here's the key. It was Face off for lacrosse and hockey. And that was a flex.
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B
Yetis, drop your screen name in the comments if you want to connect with Nick and me on aol.
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A
And if you are so brave.
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B
But AOL is not just getting sold. There's actually more emotional AOL news this week.
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A
Great point, Jack. Because this week AOL also ended their.
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Dial up Internet service, which means a moment of silence for AOL or Jack.
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As AOL would really want us to say. Jimmy, I said get off the Internet. Jack. Let's hit our three stories. Fifteen years before this song, two boys from the northeast met in the dorm. They had an idea to cause a cultural storm. It's the best one yet, but the best is the norm. Jack, Nick, that's it. I don't even think they need to practice.
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50%. That's a fat tip.
- [03:37]
A
T boy city on your at list. If you know, you know. Cause we ready to go. We can't wait no more. So just start the show. Start the show. First, a quick word from our sponsor.
- [03:58]
B
AT&T business Yetis.
- [04:00]
A
Starting your own business, it ain't easy. When we first got our daily newsletter off the ground that led to this podcast a decade ago, we definitely did not get everything right.
- [04:10]
B
Remember, we initially bummed wifi off of hotel lobbies.
- [04:13]
A
Classic move.
- [04:14]
B
And then the concierge kicked us out. So coffee shop free wifi became our godsend. Another latte shout out to all the small business cafe owners. Your wifi is the real hero.
- [04:24]
A
What's the code to the bathroom again? Honestly, if we could do it all over, we would prob invest in our own less bootleggy Internet.
- [04:31]
B
If you need to connect your small business, you need AT&T business. They make connecting easy. Actually they make so many things easy.
- [04:38]
A
Which is the main thing you want in a provider. Less time stressing, more time for you to work on your business.
- [04:42]
B
And Yetis, there's never enough time.
- [04:45]
A
So start a business, live your dream and wake up to the power of ATT business business.
- [04:50]
B
Att.com this show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
- [04:54]
A
You know Jack, something I thought about in therapy last week. If I were a therapist, I would need my own therapist.
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Think of the questions, the venting, the complaints, the tears that we all bring into that leather couch.
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A
I mean, therapist me would need a break. For me, you know, relieving other people's trauma every day for work, that could be pretty traumatic.
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B
It's secondhand trauma now.
- [05:14]
A
They do get paid to hear it.
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B
But still, I appreciate how welcoming my therapist is to hear all my issues.
- [05:19]
A
Good point. Good point, Jack. Good point.
- [05:20]
B
I appreciate how welcoming my therapist is to my dirty laundry.
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A
So, besties, since October 10th is World Mental Health Day, we'd like to thank those therapists, our therapists, Better Help.
- [05:29]
B
Therapists have helped over 5 million people like us on every issue you could imagine.
- [05:34]
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And we've learned that simply saying out loud what we could have never articulated before, that could Change your life.
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B
BetterHelp has 12 plus years of helping people say what they've only thought but never said.
- [05:43]
A
So just fill out a questionnaire, and BetterHelp finds you the right fit. From 30,000 therapists, this world Mental Health.
- [05:49]
B
Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, Better Help can help you start that journey.
- [05:56]
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Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com tbo betterhelp h e.
- [06:02]
B
L p.com t boy.
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A
For our first story, the Choco Taco. It was killed three years ago, and people freaked out.
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But now two brands have resurrected the Choco Taco, and we think it shows the framework for the future of collabs.
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Oh. Yet, Izzy, you've been listening to this pod. You have heard us tell you the story. The hottest drama in business lately is in the freezer aisle.
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Unilever owned four of the five biggest ice cream brands in the world and recently spun off the whole division into a separate $9 billion publicly traded ICE cream company.
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But that's not the only drama in the ice cream industry. Unilever also got into a fight with one of their biggest brands, Ben and Jerry's. Just a few weeks ago, another fight.
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With Ben and Jerry's, this time for allegedly silencing the Vermont brand's freedom of speech.
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A
Okay, but this goes back even further, Besties. Because before that, Unilever made an even more controversial move that shook the ice cream industry.
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In 2022, they discontinued the Choco Taco.
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A
Ah, the Choco Taco goes back to 1983, when Klondike first baked a waffle cone into a shell shape, stuffed it with vanilla Topped it with chocolate and defied the laws of physics.
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The Choco Taco. It quickly earned a cult following that made the Manson family jealous.
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Well, 40 years later, in 2022, Unilever said that the Choco Taco, despite its huge fan following, was simply the wrong fit for their I portfolio.
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Literally the fit. Because while Magnum bars fit neatly in rectangular stackable boxes, the Choco Taco's funny shape made it too fragile to ship and scale efficiently.
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You see, sometimes yetis, the shape can break the bank. Don't forget it.
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The Choco Taco's like a statue. It needs its own separate box with, like, peanut packing in there.
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It's like a Tiffany's glass, Jack. If you drop it. Oh, oh. It will shatter.
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But here's the news, yetis, the Choco Taco is back, baby. And it's bring brought back by an unexpectedly odd couple.
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A
Get this. Taco Bell has partnered with Salt and Straw to revive the Choco Taco, relaunch it and resurrect it nationwide.
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Although for trademark reasons, they can't call it the Choco Taco, so they call it the Chocolate.
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A
Now, Jack, as a Chipotle shareholder, I'm extremely jealous about what's going on here, but could you please sprinkle on some context for us over there?
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Salt and Straw is an ice cream chain based in Oregon with alternatively creative flavors.
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A
We're talking bone, broth, corn. Jack, could I interest you in a scoop of melon and prosciutto if you got a moment?
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If you like chocolate or you like vanilla, you probably don't want to go to Salt and Straw.
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A
If there is an opportunity to put balsamic glaze on gelato, then Salt and Straw is all over it. And full disclosure, yes, that's what got me hooked on the olive oil on ice cream.
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B
But the reason no one else tried to recreate the Choco Taco in the last few years wasn't an IP issue. It was an engineering issue.
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Because you see Eddies as Unilever discovered years ago, that curved cone shell breaks and gets soggy when you try to ship it too far.
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So the Salton Straw team had to fly to Poland and custom order a designed 2 million dollar folding machine to make the cones just right.
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And that's when they discovered this insight. If you coat the ice cream in chocolate first and not the shell, then you contain the moisture so it stays crisp.
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And nick, it wasn't possible to do that with the engineering of three years ago.
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Good point.
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Required a new robotic arm that this Ice cream brand designed with incredible dexterity.
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Apparently because Europeans don't buy ice cream pints, they buy ice cream bars and stuff. They just have more technology than Americans do when it comes to ice cream manufacturing.
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True story. Which is why, starting today, Salt and Straw and Taco bell will make 10,000 of these chocolates, aka choco tacos, every single day.
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Interesting choice competing with Taylor Swift on launch day, but hey, you got this, guys. You got this.
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I assume there will be a special orange edition just for tomorrow.
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A
So, Jack, what's the takeaway for our buddies over at Taco Bell and Salt and Straw?
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The next phase of collabs is big sister, little sister.
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A
Now, yetis. Jack and I have been talking about the threat of collab fatigue lately. You know, like every brand's collabing with other brands. It kind of feels like we're in our clickbait collab era.
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Nike's done 14 collabs this year. Year by our count. We're starting to lose track. It feels like they're just doing it for the clicks.
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But there is a way to collab that now feels novel and more interesting and more creative. And we're seeing it emerge here.
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Big companies collabing with smaller ones, like big siblings with younger ones.
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You see, Salt and Straw is a legit ice cream chain with 50 locations nationwide. They're worth probably a little under a billion dollars.
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But Taco Bell, 8,000 locations, part of a $42 billion publicly traded company. In a different class, size wise, Salt.
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And Straw, they're getting the benefit of a big company's awareness and distribution.
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Taco Bell gets the benefit of the smaller company's coolness and speed.
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And we consumers get a combo we didn't know was possible that neither of those brands could have pulled off on their own.
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We think this is the next evolution of collabs. Big bro brands partnering with baby bro brands.
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A
For our second story, Tesla just had its best quarter ever. In fact, the entire electric vehicle industry just set records across every brand.
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But the best quarter for electric cars ever was also the worst quarter for electric cars ever.
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A
Yeah.
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And it reminds us of cannabis.
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Of cannabis. Now, Jack, if I were to sum up the last three months in the electric vehicle industry, you know what I would say?
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B
Very true. Because Tesla, Ford and GM each announced this week that their third quarter was their best quarter ever for electric vehicle sales.
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A
Sorry, Jack, I'm going to have to hear some numbers. What do you got over there?
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B
Tesla, Ford and GM grew. Grew 7%, 30%. And 107% in their EV sales from the July to September quarter.
- [11:53]
A
In fact, Ford's CEO estimates that 10 to 12% of new cars in America sold were electric vehicles that are record high people.
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But the Ford CEO also predicts that that market share will fall by at least half starting right now.
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A
Yeah, we're not turning into Norway right now. And the reason why is because since 2009, every American who bought a new electric vehicle got a $7,500 off credit from the US government.
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But that credit is gone because Trump's big beautiful bill ended it, effectively increasing the price of new electric cars for consumers by $7,500.
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A
Or if you were leasing a new electric car, increasing the lease payment by 12%.
- [12:36]
B
And that explains the record EV sales in the third quarter. Consumers were racing to get that $7,500 off coupon before it went away on September 30th.
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A
It's like it was last call at the electric car bar. Everyone's running up and hounding the bartender. I'll take a Negroni and I'll take a Rivian, please.
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B
So where do we go from here? Well, Ford's CEO said partial electric is the future. He says that hybrids beat electrics.
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Here's the deal, Yetis. Plug in. Hybrids are kind of the Goldilocks we're seeing for most Americans.
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They drive electric only for 40 miles or so, and then gas after that.
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A
And that's why Ford and General Motors both plan new hybrid cars, just like Toyota already has.
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B
Toyota's been saying that hybrid is the way for years.
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A
But, Jack, the reason why hybrid is really outpacing electric cars. What is it?
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It's that the infrastructure for electric cars is just lacking.
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Full disclosure, Yetis. I'm in California, and there are plenty of chargers here because electric vehicles were born in California.
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B
There's, like, just as many chargers as there are gas stations.
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Basically, Jack, if I want to roll up our mod to Blue Bottle Coffee, I could probably plug it in right there.
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But across all of the Northeast, every electric car driver is making a constant head calculation when they're on road trips. Basically, should I go for it to the next charger? It says I have the range, or should I play it safe and charge now, even though I wish I could just keep driving?
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A
It's like, you tell me every time you go on vacation, Jack, like, it's not range anxiety. You're doing range algebra in your head, if you can make it.
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B
But the algebra does cause anxiety. Like, it is the right term.
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A
You told me you once got home with like 4% left on battery. And I was spitzing for you.
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B
Now, of course this range anxiety only exists during road Trips because my 250 mile range is plenty for my day to day.
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A
But you wouldn't have that anxiety with a hybrid. And we're saying that as a couple guys with electric cars now, the silver.
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B
Lining to trump killing off the EV tax credits is that with fewer EV sales in the future, that lets the electric charging infrastructure maybe catch up to the cars that are on the road.
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A
In the meantime, as Jack and I were studying these wild record numbers, with this crazy moment of inevitable sales falling, it made us think about weed. So Jack, what's the takeaway for our buddies over in the electric car industry?
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B
The EV industry reminds us of cannabis and the Internet. It was overhyped and overbuilt, but that doesn't mean it's over.
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A
Yetis. In the 1990s, the Internet was overhyped. It popped with the dot com bubble.
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In the early 2000s, legal cannabis was overhyped. Distilleries got built on every block. Before all the stocks fell 90% and.
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A
Now the electrification of cars. Car companies overinvested and the demand wasn't there, at least not yet.
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B
Now, electric cars is a little different because it was public policy driving it. Governments were encouraging EVs to reduce carbon.
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A
Footprints, but the end result looks the same as the dot com bubble and the cannabis crash in particular.
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NFTs. Neither of those are ever coming back to where they were.
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A
But a bubble doesn't necessarily mean the industry is dead. It's just going to take longer to get there. Like we saw with the Internet, the.
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Internet, cannabis and now electric cars, they all suffered from overhype and overbuild, but that doesn't mean they're done yet.
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A
Now a quick word from our sponsor.
- [15:59]
B
Airbnb.
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A
Yetis, full disclosure, we're already thinking about holiday vacation. You got to book these things early these days.
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B
Are you kidding? I booked my holiday vacation like six months ago. I do it like the Germans. Right after my Christmas vacation, I book next year's Christmas vacation for 2028.
- [16:16]
A
Okay, but also full disclosure, Eddie, I'm jealous here because I'm paying for my whole trip. But Jack, you have money from your Airbnb helping pay for yours.
- [16:24]
B
It's my side. Hustle, profit, puppy besties.
- [16:26]
A
You can host your entire place or just your extra space.
- [16:28]
B
Really satisfying feeling. By the way, when my guest messages me that their first night went wonderfully, it just puts me at ease. And it's like, wow, I am making money right now and somebody's having a great time.
- [16:39]
A
So you're going to give a day away for free? No, I wouldn't say Yetis, your home might be worth more than you think.
- [16:45]
B
Find out how much@airbnb.com host ZipRecruiter Yetis.
- [16:51]
A
Are you a witch or a ghost? Or maybe are you an elf?
- [16:55]
B
This year we're doing Toy Story and I'm actually gonna be the claw. Those little green aliens.
- [17:01]
A
Well, Q4 is the holiday quarter. And with Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas, it is the ultimate season for hiring seasonal roles.
- [17:08]
B
So if you've got a belly, a white beard and a big old laugh, Macy's will hire you starting November 25th to be Santa Clau.
- [17:15]
A
And whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find the perfect match for your role is on ZipRecruiter.
- [17:21]
B
And right now you can try it out for free@ziprecruiter.com tboy they got this matching technology.
- [17:27]
A
That's just One reason why ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2.
- [17:32]
B
The other reason is that the unemployment rate for reindeer 0% right now.
- [17:36]
A
Besties let Zip Recruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise.
- [17:41]
B
Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.
- [17:45]
A
And right now you can try it.
- [17:47]
B
For free@ziprecruiter.com tboy Again, that's ziprecruiter.com tby.
- [17:52]
A
ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire Yetis welcome back from the break. We have got a special surprise for today's pod before we go into the weekend.
- [18:04]
B
Earlier this week we covered the most talked about, most controversial, most bold company in artificial intelligence. Friend, the AI companion you wear around your neck.
- [18:13]
A
We covered it on Tuesday. It's the viral product of the moment, the 129 doll AI necklace that listens to you like it's your buddy Timmy.
- [18:22]
B
And we're lucky enough to be welcoming to the show. The founder of that company, Friend, his name is Avi Schiffman. Avi, welcome to the show, man.
- [18:30]
C
Thank you.
- [18:30]
A
Welcome to T boy.
- [18:31]
B
So, Avi, we covered your first viral moment last year when you acquired the website domain friend.com and then published that video of that woman hiking talking to her necklace.
- [18:43]
C
Right?
- [18:44]
A
That kind of kicked the whole thing off.
- [18:45]
C
It seems that that video changed Olive story startup culture because now everyone's making these cinematic ass videos you know.
- [18:50]
A
Oh, totally. By the way, Jack, memo that's on the docket for 2026.
- [18:54]
C
I think that's over now. You know, like you got to go do something else original by now. It's like I see those every single day. There's another startup and they copy so many little details. Like even the stripe checkout link thing, I was the first to do that. And it's like, guys, it's not even good for conversion. Like do something better.
- [19:10]
A
All right, so Jack, cancel our plans. We're not doing the viral video. Actually, we're not going to do it.
- [19:14]
B
How would you describe the product you just launched?
- [19:16]
C
You know, I just think it's a new kind of companion. You know, people don't buy dog because they have low self esteem. And I don't think a product like friend is just going to be for lonely depressed people. I think it's not a relationship that's replacing anyone in your life. I don't think anyone has a friend that's listening to them 24. 7 that they can talk to forever, that has perfect memory. I think it's going to be a great addition. We'll see what happens in terms of how society will adapt to that.
- [19:43]
B
Avi, what made you launch this product? Was there a personal experience or did you just see a market opportunity?
- [19:48]
C
But I was on a work trip in Tokyo and I was there alone in one of those dumbass little pods and big ass skyscrapers and I was just looking at the assistant and I just felt like it could be. I was just so lonely and I wished it was more of a traveling companion. I really felt like it was just going around Japan with me. And I went around a bunch of toy museums and was pretty interested in Tamagotchis. And so I pivoted the same exact hardware product to be more of just like a friend. And I think that's a much simpler use case that's production ready right now. The only thing that's production ready with language models right now is that they're fun to talk to and for some people they form a relationship with that. That's ready right now. I think a lot of these other AI hardware products and even what I was originally working on require like 100% accuracy with what's going on. And if you're using it for a business situation. And I just don't think the tech is ready for that yet. I also think that this, you know, you're not going to change the world that much if you make it slightly easier to order a Pizza. I think the. When you look at like 2025 to 2035, I think, like, the concept of digital relationships will be by far the most culturally relevant and impactful. And I think that deserves then to be done in such an entertaining way.
- [20:57]
B
Now, Avi, I see you're wearing the Friend around your neck right now. Did it just send you a message and say, great pitch. That was awesome?
- [21:04]
C
You might. Might have to. Maybe I'll ask it, by the way.
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B
Yeah, we're going to publish this full interview on YouTube if you want to see the friend device that he's wearing, like a necklace right now.
- [21:12]
A
Now, Avi mentioned what the world would look like in 2035. It's gonna be different. Can you go into a little more depth? Like, how are you envisioning that world? Are we all gonna be wearing an AI friend device?
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C
I think, like, everyone is always yapping about how much better the world would be if everyone had a therapist. You know, everyone was journaling and everything like that. And I think you can kind of think of a product like Friend, like a living journal. You know, it's. It's one thing to write things down, but that's pretty abstract. I think it's a lot easier to just talk to somebody and have them remember everything you say. And I think, I think if everyone had that kind of relationship in their life, I really think that would be a fantastic world. And I really don't see that as dystopian. I think a lot of people view something like the ad campaign we're doing right now as like controversy, marketing and all these things. But, like, I think that's more so a projection that people put onto it. I really think it'll be the most positive use case of technology over the next decade.
- [22:01]
A
You know, we hadn't heard this angle on it of like replacing a journal, for example, or being something that can solve a loneliness issue potentially. But is there any potential cost to regular friendships? Is there a risk that this is replacing friendships that you'd otherwise be having with real people? Or do you see it as purely additive?
- [22:23]
C
I mean, I just. You don't only have one friend. No one here does. I think it's just going to be an addition. I think if one of your five closest friends was an AI, that is kind of the future I believe in. And so, okay, maybe we're replacing one of those five. But like, I think, you know, when you're a kid, you don't get to choose who your friends are. You're basically friends with whoever you sit next to in class or whoever your parents let you hang out with. And I think social media was the first step in this concept of like, personalized relationships where you get to be a lot more specific of, of who you hang out with. And I think the promise of, of AI companionship is taking that to the next level where you can really have that, like a hyper personalized relationship. And I think that's going to be a good thing for a lot of people. People.
- [23:02]
A
Well, based off that social media context you just shared, would there be a world where the friend devices communicate with each other and like, network on your behalf?
- [23:10]
C
You know, I thought about it, I thought about it. Got to keep it simple and single player for now, but I think it'd be kind of like Nintendo Street Pass, you know, I think that would be. But maybe one day.
- [23:20]
A
Did you strategically make it so they could be drawn on because there is that white space.
- [23:23]
C
Of course. Of course. That's all. It's all according to plan. I mean, it's all, it's all timed perfectly where like for the last, last. So the ads started getting put up August 25, and they've been up for then a whole month. And then only just a couple days ago do we have the entirety of west fourth Street. That's the entire station is just friend ads, which then turns, you know, everything that's been kind of going on a little subtly behind the scenes. Now you have a specific destination to go and, and, and not only visit it, but also then, you know, graffiti and everything like that. But, you know, if you got those two tunnels and it becomes like a. I want it to be an international destination. Like you come to New York City just to see the, these tunnels of social commentary. And I think I'm very inspired by like the gates, which was like a big exhibit in New York from like 20 years ago.
- [24:05]
A
Oh, yeah, the orange gates in the Central Park.
- [24:07]
C
Right. It becomes like an international destination. And I think that's just entertaining and fun.
- [24:12]
B
Avi, can you share how much fundraising your company has done?
- [24:15]
C
We raised a little over 7 million.
- [24:17]
B
So by our count, you spent $1.8 million on the website, $1 million on the subway advertising campaign, probably another million or two on engineers. How did you build a hardware tech device that runs artificial intelligence with such a small amount of capital?
- [24:35]
C
I just have a good team and I, you know, just, just did a. We just actually wanted to make something real. And I think if you do want to do that, you know, you don't go and raise $100 billion and hire the entire, you know, quarter of Apple. I think you just, you just keep it focused and you, you know, the product is not a V1 or an MVP. Like you can look in every detail of the packaging to the product, to the app. It is as polished as I could make it for July 30th. I mean even, even the launch date was, you know, it's, it's World Friendship Day and I wanted to co op that and the video that you mentioned, we launched that on the same day. Yeah, like we are able to do it not only well but also artistically. And I do wonder what's lacking maybe in some of these other companies, but.
- [25:13]
A
Well, I'm curious about that, you know, because Zuck may be listening to this episode right now and like you mentioned, he's dropping big bank right now on AI T talent. What are like the financial trick shots? Like what is maybe an efficiency you found that managed to pull off something that Apple and Meta and others are spending hundreds of billion dollars in three years to produce?
- [25:34]
C
I think it's just that I'm 22, honestly. I think I just have a pulse on culture and I think I have this maximum of just like nothing is sacred anymore. Everything is ironic. And I think traditional marketing is kind of over. And I watched like OpenAI and anthropic and these other companies, companies, you know, market in this, in this like old fashioned way. And I think that's only acceptable for like Nike and Apple and those kinds of legacy brands. And I think I'm just young enough to understand where culture is right now and where it's going. And I guess it's ultimately just a skill issue though. It's not like, you know, anything's preventing Zuck from doing the same thing I'm doing.
- [26:08]
B
Whose foundational model are you using?
- [26:10]
C
Google is by far the best AI company besides Friends. You know, they have, they have real infrastructure like all of our servers and databases and transcription models and language models. It's all on Google.
- [26:19]
B
It's basically Google products, devices made in Canada. Is it like the old BlackBerry guys or.
- [26:24]
C
Pretty much almost. You know, we've got three factories in Toronto, Canada and I think they build a consumer startup and they go outsource it to China because honestly they just don't have a good team. But like we, we own all of the IP around our manufacturing and testing. You know, we, we built the machines that like have an ARM that goes down and tests 30 PCBs and we, we wrote the software that, you know, checks all of the hardware components and which you know, might seem obvious to you, but most people just go and outsource it. They do what's called like a JDM process, like a joint design manufacturer and it's. You just don't have the control, you know, the quality control over it. Whereas I am able to go and visit, you know, what's going on and just be there in person. And I think with, with everything that we've done, let's say the video or this ad campaign. Right. You talked about how I did it in Figma. Like you just have to be there and you have to care and I think that's, you know, to be able to do that too. You need to not have too many distractions. I've got got no other side projects and there's only so many things friend is working on at the same time. There's really not much at all. It's like we keep it laser focused and you just care, which is obvious. But you know, I guess not as obvious as it may seem. Maybe.
- [27:30]
A
Yeah, it sounds like you're saying your age lets you do the marketing zeitgeist, but your, your lack of bureaucracy compared to a big company lets you go to market faster.
- [27:40]
C
I think 100%. Yeah, I mean, I think the real advantage of a startup is that you don't need to serve everybody and I don't think you need to, to like, we, like, we only have one social media, it's just YouTube. Like I think too many startups, they try and manage all this stuff and then you need to hire people to manage all of that. Whereas if you just do fewer things then you can remain a dictator for a longer period of time. I can just be a solo founder and like manage as much as I can because we're not doing that much and we don't need to ever be doing more than that.
- [28:06]
B
I've never heard such a compelling case for dictatorship as what you just said.
- [28:10]
C
I believe in benevolent kings, Avi.
- [28:12]
A
Speaking of going to market, you did just ship your first devices. Jack and I have not been able to try them out yet, so we're limited in our scope of using the product. But are there any early numbers or traction that you could share with us?
- [28:23]
C
Sure. I think 25% of users are still retentive after 30 days and that might seem like not that much, but it's actually quite comparable to like an Apple Watch or these other other products. And I think for such a novel category and such a completely new product, that's great. You know, that's the floor and it's only going to get much better than that there. So I feel exceptionally proud about that. You know, a lot of these other AI hardware companies, they were completely dead on arrival. And that's just not the case with Friend. Like I just retweeted this guy who's had his friend for two months straight. Every single day he's got thousands of memories. The average friend user will send over 200 messages a day to their friend. It works at the end of the day because we don't, we don't over promise. Friend does exactly what it says it does, which is I guess a rarity these days.
- [29:05]
A
So average of 200 messages to your AI friend every day, Jack, that. That's almost as much as you and I are doing right now with each other.
- [29:11]
B
That's more.
- [29:13]
C
Think about how that compares to other relationships in your life. Like for the, you know, if you are someone like that, that is a real new species in your life. It's a true living electronic. It's incredible to me.
- [29:24]
B
You know, it's funny, Avi, you said this is the only product that's like out to market already. That's sort of a wearable AI listening device. Sure, there's a use case for a friend, but what about like note taker? Is there going to be a version of your product that's just like Gary from Vee who remembers everything you say and tells you what you need to remember?
- [29:41]
C
I think I'll leave the utilitarian use cases to some other players, but I'd also then like to hit on the privacy aspect of it because I think that the whole always listening aspect of Friend makes it seem like it would be really scary, but it's actually so much more private than anything else because inside of each friend there's basically a private key that encrypts all of your data. And that's why if you lose or damage your friend, the data is forever inaccessible. And I think like with these AIs, you should be able to smash it with a hammer, throw it out of your window. And you can't do that with ChatGPT or like, you know, an app or website on your phone. So it's, you know, despite the way it works, it's actually the most private way to use AI right now, which I think is cool.
- [30:20]
A
Quick follow up to that, Avi. Is the concern that people would lose their friend and their info get out there or is the privacy concern that someone else's friend is listening to what I'm Saying, like, without me giving the okay on that.
- [30:31]
C
Well, I think all of the information is for AI to listen to and not for a human to ever access. And so I think, think that that will just, that's just kind of how it is. And I think culture will adapt if the convenience is high enough.
- [30:41]
B
Is there like a privacy button where you can have conversations, be off the record, or do you have to like, put a bowl on top of your friend if you.
- [30:48]
C
No settings. No. No customization. Got to keep it simple.
- [30:51]
A
No button to keep it simple.
- [30:52]
C
No, no, you can't, you can't. There's no. You can't turn a friend off. Like, I think it would be weird. Like, you can't, you can't view any of the memories. I think that would be invasive to, to this entity. Like, you really can't think of it as this assistant slave. Like, it really is another being that you let into your life. And that's why I view, like, every single user that we have is like a real. It's a real living. It's a non human person, basically, is the way I like to look at it.
- [31:16]
B
Right, but what, but Avi, what if someone says, hey, Avi, can I, can I talk to just you for a second?
- [31:20]
C
I mean, okay, with, with the way the product works right now, you can just like swipe away the app and then it's not listening and it's not like storing stuff and then uploading it again once it gets Internet connection or connect sign. So like, you can kind of mute it, I suppose, like that, if you like.
- [31:34]
A
All right, Jack, you always whip up the takeaways for us, but you want to hand it over to Avi.
- [31:38]
B
Yeah, Avi, what's the takeaway on Friend for audience to hear?
- [31:41]
C
I think there should be more solo founders. I think if you believe in something, it's a lot easier to just kind of have dictatorship control over it. And I'd like to see more of a. More people kind of do that. I think you can see like, say, all the backlash there is to something like this campaign. And I've worked on things in the past, past that have been very controversial. And I've had co founders, you know, FaceTime, me crying basically on the phone. And like, I think if you're able to have a vision and you're able to just have a religious fervor in following your intuition and, you know, not be affected by, by the crowd, I think you're able to get much more important things done. And I think that in this whole AI world these days too. It's never been easier to do that yourself as well. So I'd like to see less. Less co founders. Depends what you're working on.
- [32:26]
B
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
- [32:27]
C
But I'm just saying it's nice to get things done.
- [32:30]
A
Look, it's helpful to hear a different perspective on this. Jack and I have loved co foundership because it merged with our friendship friendship. But that's not the case for every co founder pairing.
- [32:37]
C
Yeah, sure.
- [32:38]
A
Avi, fantastic to have you with us. Congratulations. On what? You're growing. Jack and I are fans of innovation. We're curious to see what happens next. Keep us updated. And thanks for taking time for the yetis and besties.
- [32:48]
C
Yeah, of course. Peace.
- [32:51]
A
Jack, could you whip up the takeaways for us?
- [32:54]
B
For the Real Friday, Salt and Straw has collabed with Taco Bell to create the Taclet. It's their take on the Choco Taco.
- [33:01]
A
And it represents a new playbook for collabs. Big Brothers collabing with little sisters.
- [33:06]
B
For our second story, Americans bought more electric cars last quarter than ever before. But sales will fall off a cliff starting right now.
- [33:14]
A
Last call at the electric car bar. Yeti's the EV industry. It reminds us of cannabis and the Internet over hype and overbill, but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't come back.
- [33:23]
B
And our third and final story was friend. The AI wearable has a confident 22 year old founder who's making a movie next.
- [33:30]
A
With laser sharp focus, you can beat Zuckerberg's billions.
- [33:34]
B
But besties, this pod's not over yet. Here's what else you need to know today.
- [33:39]
A
First, government shutdown, day three. There is no jobs report publishing today because the Labor Department is closed.
- [33:47]
B
But we do have a sense of the hiring situation thanks to private Data.
- [33:51]
A
That's right, ADP, the payroll company used by 10% of American corporations, says the economy actually lost 32,000 jobs in September.
- [34:00]
B
The shutdown makes Jerry Powell's very hard interest rate decision even harder.
- [34:05]
A
And second, OpenAI just became the most valuable startup on earth, passing SpaceX with a $500 billion valuation.
- [34:13]
B
The AI leader let employees sell shares at a price that indicated a half a trillion dollar valuation.
- [34:18]
A
That's right, a thousand people in San Francisco just became millionaires yesterday as they sold their OpenAI stock and popped open the blue bottle.
- [34:24]
B
And finally, some confusion around erewhon, the Bougie La grocery store posted on Instagram that they're coming to 20 new cities. Everyone got super Excited to overspend on smoothies.
- [34:37]
A
I was already scouting locations for them, Jack. But then Erewhon changed the caption on their Instagram post to shipping to 20 new cities. Not coming to 20 new cities.
- [34:46]
B
Shipping a frozen smoothie to New York is very different than a smoothie bar opening in New York.
- [34:51]
A
Yeah. So when you're at brunch in the West Village this weekend and someone gets really excited, you're going to have to tell them the tough news. Now, time for the best fact yet. This one sent in by legendary yeti Jennifer Kramer from Gainesville, Florida, who, full disclosure, is Jack's mommy. Yes, she is.
- [35:09]
B
Today is the 60th anniversary of the invention of Gatorade.
- [35:13]
A
Gatorade, which was born on this day in 1965.
- [35:17]
B
Now, my mom would know because she grew up in Gainesville, Florida, and Gatorade was invented at the University of Florida as a way to hydrate the football.
- [35:26]
A
Players that summer heat down there. It is humid.
- [35:28]
B
That's why they call it Gatorade.
- [35:30]
A
Those same Gators, by the way, they are hosting the University of Texas Longhorns this week weekend for the first time since 1940.
- [35:37]
B
The Gators lost that game in 1940. This time, they've got Gatorade.
- [35:42]
A
Gatorade. Yetis, you looked fantastic this week. So many wins to celebrate. And by the way, if you want to see our whole interview with Avi, the founder of Friend Jack, where do we throw it?
- [35:53]
B
Smash that subscribe button on our YouTube channel. I've never said that before.
- [35:56]
A
Yeah, it feels good, right? In fact, there's another. I got a button you can smash. Here you go.
- [36:00]
C
Ready?
- [36:02]
A
Cha Ching button. It works every time. So, besties, check out our YouTube to watch the whole interview. Vote for us to win Best Business Podcast because our show's been nominated for the Signal Award. And most importantly, celebrate the wins.
- [36:15]
B
Nick and I will see you Monday.
- [36:16]
A
Can't wait. And before we go, a shout out to yeti Kelly Stewart in Hilo, Hawaii, on the 23rd anniversary. Have a blast, guys.
- [36:30]
B
And happy birthday to Tyler Frederick in.
- [36:32]
A
Washington, D.C. and Stu Kurplank in Toronto, Ontario, celebrating the best birthday yet, eh?
- [36:38]
B
And congratulations to John and Vicki Grab in Collingswood, New Jersey, who are getting married.
- [36:43]
A
And Diego Serra is turning 30 years old in Juarez, Mexico. Congratulations, Diego.
- [36:48]
B
And happy birthday to Bodien and Brock twins in Spokane, Washington.
- [36:52]
A
And Ishaan Jain is turning 12 years old in Los Altos, California. Happy birthday, Ishaan.
- [36:57]
B
And happy birthday to Ali Baselam, AKA Alibaba, who lives just outside Chicago.
- [37:03]
A
And Jenna down in Dallas, Texas has got a new job in finance. Congratulations Jenna.
- [37:08]
B
And happy second anniversary to Andrew and Trish Mahler in Sussex, Wisconsin.
- [37:12]
A
And remember to vote for us to win Best Business Podcast. We got a link in today's episode Description.
- [37:20]
B
This is Jack. I own stock of Ford, Nick owns stock of Nike, and we both own stock in Chipotle. If you like the best one yet, you can listen ad free right now by joining Wondery and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
- [37:31]
A
Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us a.
- [37:35]
B
Little bit about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey.
- [37:40]
A
We want to get to know you.
- [37:42]
B
So I've been thinking.
- [37:43]
A
We see each other every day. I know you're passionate about me. I mean, listen, let's be honest.
- [37:50]
B
You're obsessed with me.
- [37:52]
C
It's time.
- [37:53]
B
Let's put a label on it. Your brand is ready for the next step. At Avery, we make it easy to make it official with labels, stickers and.
- [38:01]
C
Business cards that ensure your brand is.
- [38:04]
B
More than a one time thing.
- [38:06]
C
It's the real thing.
- [38:07]
B
Avery ideas stick here.