The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

Episode: Amb. Susan Rice on Trump’s “Grand Theft Larceny”

Air Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Guest: Ambassador Susan Rice (Former UN Ambassador, National Security Advisor, Director of the Domestic Policy Council)

Overview

This episode features Ambassador Susan Rice in conversation with Nicolle Wallace, exploring the urgent challenges facing American democracy, the dangers of polarization, Trump-era autocracy and corruption, and the global consequences of current US foreign policy. Rice provides a deeply informed, candid, and sometimes alarming overview of how the pillars upholding America’s values and alliances are under threat.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Nation and Rice’s Emotions

Timestamp: 02:34 – 04:02

• Rice acknowledges profound anger, despair, and concern about America's direction and global role.
  • Quote: “Honestly, like many people, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling despair, and I'm feeling deep, deep concern about the direction of our country and our role in the world." – Susan Rice (02:34)
• She contrasts past resilience with the current, unprecedented threat: leaders in the White House "hell bent... on pure power accumulation and wealth accumulation for a very narrow elite few at the expense of the basic rights and liberties of American citizens."
• Stress on the need for active, broad civic resistance: standing up for the Constitution and rule of law.

2. Polarization as a National Security Vulnerability

Timestamp: 04:11 – 06:02

• Drawing from her memoir, Rice explains political polarization weakens America’s ability to defend global interests.
• She details how internal division is exploited by adversaries (e.g., Russia’s manipulation of social media to inflame division).
  • Quote: “There's nothing that our adversaries want more than to weaken us from within, and we're doing a hell of a job of making that easy for them.” – Susan Rice (05:46)

3. U.S.-Russia Dynamics and the Transformation of the Republican Party

Timestamp: 06:02 – 09:43

• Wallace and Rice lament the GOP shift, from "Russia hawks" like John McCain to MAGA figures lionizing Putin.
• Rice points to Republican acquiescence to Trump’s anti-NATO moves and China policy (like AI chip sales), calling out the “remnant” national-security wing’s silence.
• She highlights the potentially catastrophic impact if Trump acts on threats—like aggression against Greenland—and why even the threat itself has already deeply damaged alliances.
  • Quote: “The damage to NATO has already been done, Nicole, because our closest allies now know ... the President of the United States does not care sufficiently about the strength of that alliance.” – Susan Rice (09:39)

4. Trump’s Motivations and Global Strategy

Timestamp: 09:47 – 14:57

• Rice insists Trump is savvy, not ignorant: his threats and designs are for personal power and benefit, with strategic awareness of their impact.
• Trump’s disregard for the true history and mutual obligations of alliances (e.g., NATO’s support post-9/11) is called "a lie."
  • Quote: “He is not ignorant enough or stupid enough not to know that the only time Article 5 has ever been invoked...was when NATO came to our defense after 9/11.” – Susan Rice (11:46)
• The risk: With Trump “unconstrained by law, by the Constitution, and by anything,” and with Congress abdicating its role, Rice warns, “we are... committing superpower suicide.” (14:46)

5. Superpower Suicide: Erosion of Alliances and Global Standing

Timestamp: 14:58 – 18:23

• Rice details how deliberate undermining of alliances and retreat into 19th-century “spheres of influence” imperils the entire order that made America secure and prosperous.
• Alliances, she argues, not just military might, are America’s “superpower.” Trump’s abandonment of these is “throwing all of that away.”
  • Quote: “What holds those alliances together are shared values and trust. And trust has been broken.” – Susan Rice (15:41)

6. The Culture of Impunity and Domestically-Driven Authoritarianism

Timestamp: 21:25 – 29:41

• Rice discusses recent incidents—like the double strike on shipwreck survivors and ICE abuses—that should be investigated as potential war crimes and tragically display a growing culture of impunity.
• Pardoning of officials, political “complete immunity,” and a refusal to investigate clear abuses are all signs of democratic backsliding, but Rice maintains these actions are not legally or socially sustainable post-Trump.
  • Quote: “These people are people who took an oath to serve and protect, to defend the Constitution...And so to them should be accountability.” – Susan Rice (25:10)
• The normalization of Gestapo-like tactics (e.g., Americans being “disappeared” from their homes by masked men) is deeply disturbing and un-American.

7. Public Response, Resistance, and the Need for Mass Action

Timestamp: 29:41 – 32:33

• With 71% of Americans believing the country is “out of control,” Rice says the solution is mass, sustained, peaceful protest and unwavering civic engagement before dissent is shut down.
  • Quote: “The best constraint...on authoritarian evolution reaching its extreme is peaceful popular resistance.” – Susan Rice (31:27)
• She encourages reading Masha Gessen and Timothy Snyder for context on resisting “obeying in advance” and capitulation.

8. Private Sector, Law Firms, and Civic Responsibility

Timestamp: 32:33 – 35:14

• Some corporations and law firms are capitulating to Trump’s intimidation, playing the “short game of appeasement,” but Rice warns they will be held accountable in the long run, risking public trust and the legal foundation of American capitalism.
• She stresses the entire economic system rests on faith in the rule of law, currently endangered by the Trump administration’s actions.
  • Quote: “If I'm sitting in a corporate boardroom and I don't see that, then I think I'm operating with blinders on...” – Susan Rice (36:13)

9. Collapse of the Rule of Law and DOJ Integrity

Timestamp: 38:42 – 43:46

• Rice bluntly declares the Justice Department is “on life support,” citing its loss of decency and lawfulness.
  • Quote: “If it's not dead, it's on life support. And I have lost confidence in the integrity and the decency and the lawfulness of the Justice Department.” – Susan Rice (38:48)
• The administration’s “pure intimidation” tactics against critics, civil servants, and even ex-presidents (threats to investigate Obama) are about harassment, not justice.

10. Election Integrity and Democratic Fragility

Timestamp: 44:46 – 47:07

• Rice is adamant: Americans must fight for free and fair elections despite the threats to cancel or undermine them.
  • Quote: “We have to fight like hell to hold free and fair elections and to win those free and fair elections.” – Susan Rice (45:00)
• Trump’s erratic foreign adventurism and disregard for campaign promises constitute a major political betrayal of voters.

11. Trumpism’s Betrayal of His Own Voters & The Grift

Timestamp: 47:07 – 51:41

• Rice and Wallace detail the gap between Trump’s pro-rural rhetoric and policies that actually harm his base (cuts to Medicaid, SNAP, rural hospitals).
• Widespread “zombification” in the face of Trump’s self-enrichment—through tariffs, the Peace Board scheme, global resource grabs, hotel stays, and flagrant disregard for the emoluments clause and the Hatch Act.
  • Quote: “It's grand theft larceny, okay? That's what this is. He is extorting countries around the world. He's globalizing the grift and he's going around the globe literally stealing other countries resources.” – Susan Rice (51:41)
• Rice describes the Peace Board, Trump’s attempt to centralize global resource and political power personally, as “insane” and shockingly under-reported.

Notable Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Trump’s disregard for alliances:
  “The damage to NATO has already been done...our closest allies now know that the President of the United States does not care sufficiently about the strength of that alliance.” (09:39)

• On normalization of abuses:
  “You don't shoot somebody for being what Trump called disrespectful. So Americans are rightly outraged...I don't know what you call that, but Gestapo, like tactics.” (26:04)

• On public apathy and the persistent flood of scandal:
  “They do a masterful job of flooding the zone with so much shit that nobody can keep up. But it's our duty and our responsibility to...highlight the magnitude of the theft domestically and internationally.” (52:18)

• On the Peace Board scheme:
  "This peace board thing is not getting enough attention. Literally he's trying to make himself king of the world. He's the only person with a veto power...It's not a role that he's created for the office of the President, United States. It's a role he's created for Donald J. Trump." (50:25)

• On mass resistance:
  “The best constraint on that evolution reaching its extreme is peaceful popular resistance. Yeah, it has to be peaceful, has to be mass, but it has to happen before that space for dissent is closed.” (31:27)

Conclusion & Final Thoughts

Ambassador Susan Rice’s urgent message:

• America is at a crossroads—testing its resilience in the face of unprecedented domestic authoritarianism and international abdication.
• Trump’s motivations, from foreign policy to border schemes, serve personal power and enrichment, corroding the fabric of American democracy and global leadership.
• Defending democracy now requires both courageous resistance—legal, popular, and persistent—and a public no longer numb to scandal and rights abuses.
• The time is now for Americans—across the political spectrum, in business, law, and civic life—to stand up for constitutional rights, rule of law, and the values that once made the U.S. an “indispensable nation.”

Final Quote:
“I'm unwilling, for one, to stand down, because I believe too much in this country. I believe deeply in our Constitution. And I have, as many of us, ancestors who fought and bled and died for the rights that we all have in this country. And I'm not going to be one to sit here and let them be stripped away without a fight.”
– Susan Rice (43:18)

Further Reading/Listening

• Masha Gessen: On resisting authoritarianism (NYT).
• Timothy Snyder: "Obeying in advance" – dangers to democracy.

[End of Summary]