"Best of The Best: Joan Baez is Calculating How Much She’s Willing to Risk"

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace
Aired: January 5, 2026

Overview of the Episode

This episode features an in-depth and candid conversation between host Nicolle Wallace and legendary folk singer, songwriter, and activist Joan Baez. At age 84, Baez reflects on her enduring role as a voice of protest, her ongoing activism, and the risks involved in speaking out— both in the 1960s and today. Wallace and Baez explore the deep divides in current American society, the evolution (and sometimes regression) of protest movements, and the importance of community, art, and hope in dark times. With wit and warmth, Baez addresses her creative processes, personal philosophy, and her unusual current residency—performing in a real life circus as an act of artistic and personal defiance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

On Resistance, Risk, and the State of Protest

• Risk Is Integral to Change

  • "Social change cannot happen until somebody's willing to take a risk." (Joan Baez, 01:49)
  • Baez notes that the risks required for activism are only getting greater and scarier in today's political climate.

• Rejecting 'Unprecedented'

  • Baez urges against using the word "unprecedented" to describe current political horrors:
    "That group of people would love to be unprecedented... So get used to it and drop the word." (03:07)

• Fears and Differences Between Then and Now

  • Baez compares her activism in the '60s with today, noting a shift from hope and a feeling of safety to a more honest fear of cruelty by those in power.
    • "Now it's a different kind of scared... I haven't experienced anything like this in my life." (06:02)
  • The dangers of protesting and being arrested have become more acute and unpredictable.

• Division and the Loss of 'Glue'

  • The sense of togetherness that characterized past movements has diminished:
    "We don't have the glue." (08:29)
  • Baez recalls the "high-fiving in the subway" during Obama's campaign as a fleeting recent instance of that unity.

• Self-Censorship and Fear

  • Even among Democratic leaders and artists, Baez observes a rise in self-censorship due to fear.
    • "We shouldn't be too surprised when people we thought were going to speak up for us don't. Because there's a lot of fear now." (10:13)
  • This has stifled collective action and made the risks of speaking out feel heavier.

Coping, Hope, and Denial

• Pragmatic Activism: “Saving Fishes”

  • Baez, reflecting on the limits of personal impact, advises:
    "We may not be able to turn the tide, but we can certainly save some fishes." (10:34)
    • Each small act matters, especially to those directly helped.

• The Utility of Denial

  • Baez recommends compartmentalizing or healthy denial as a coping mechanism:
    "Denial is your friend right now. I would suggest that we all live about 85% of the time in denial, because otherwise we'll... get extremely depressed." (10:44)

• Hope is a Muscle

  • Quoting Ann Patchett, Baez reiterates that hope is not innate, but must be exercised:
    "Hope is a muscle." (11:45)
    • Despite being a self-proclaimed pessimist, Baez continues to act, noting:
      "I do this stuff anyway... it's up to me how grim I'm going to feel." (12:08)

Art, Community, and New Paths to Resistance

• Art as a Source of Community

  • Baez highlights the through-line between her concerts and her current circus performances:
    "You sit in community with your fans. They are in that moment with you." (20:36)
  • She sees live performance spaces as refuges where people can share joy, laughter, and resistance together.

• The Need for New Anthems

  • While "We Shall Overcome" holds legendary status, Baez advocates for creating new anthems relevant to today's movements:
    "We need something new... [the classics are] too full of nostalgia and not enough to get people moving." (24:12)

• The Political Power of Laughter and Joy

  • Baez quotes Mark Twain:
    "The people have only one really effective weapon, and that is laughter." (21:01)
  • Acts of joy—like performing in a circus or attending a drag show—are, in Baez's view, acts of defiance in the face of cruelty.
    • Discussing her experience at a drag show:
      "This is what it should be. Totally spontaneous and, and totally dirty... I let your inner slut out. Congratulations." (31:08, 32:01)

Navigating Fear and Responsibility

• Fears for the Future

  • Baez confesses open fear for herself, and more acutely for her son and granddaughter:
    "I'm more scared for my kid and granddaughter... At the moment, she's just effervescent with the possibilities in her life." (22:35)

• On Being an Example and Burden of History

  • Baez shares a behind-the-scenes memory from Czechoslovakia, feeling the weight of being "the last drop" before a revolution (38:00).
  • She notes the importance of simply showing up for others—her presence giving strength to activists today.

Living Openly and Authentically

• Late-Life Liberation

  • Baez emphasizes the freedom that comes with age:
    "That's the luxury of this, you know, being my age. And I don't care." (42:09)

• Personal Fulfillment and Joy

  • On dancing, art, and the circus, Baez says:
    "The real reason you're put on the earth is to dance... That's when I'm happiest." (35:06)

• Advice on Remaining Open and Resilient

  • "I don't know how to live otherwise... sometimes to a fault, [I've] been open." (35:39)
  • Baez stresses the importance of therapy, self-reflection, and learning to do nothing as self-care after years of activism and performance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the climate of protest and political risk:
  "It's cruelty. And don't just put people in cages. You love putting people in cages. And that's what makes it scary in a way that I was not scared back then." (06:02)

• On hope and denial:
  "Denial is your friend right now. Live about 85% of the time in denial... with the other 10% or 15%, go and do something." (10:44)

• On the residue of the 1960s:
  "By the end they [the antiwar and civil rights movements] were merging. But that feeling of togetherness... The glue. And we don't have the glue." (08:29)

• On joy as resistance:
  "Acts of joy are their own acts of defiance... Be the beauty, laughter, joy, and dancing." (30:37)

• Final reflection on risk:
  "Social change cannot happen until somebody's willing to take a risk. And I believe that. And I believe it's going to get scarier and scarier to take a risk." (42:49)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:49] - Baez on the necessity of risk for social change
• [03:07] - Baez rejects describing the Trump era as "unprecedented"
• [06:02] - Baez on the rise of cruelty and increased danger in protest
• [08:29] - The missing "glue" of collective action and unity
• [10:34] - On "saving fishes": small acts matter
• [11:45] - "Hope is a muscle" and on personal optimism
• [21:01] - The Mark Twain quote: laughter as an effective weapon
• [22:35] - Fears for the next generation
• [24:12] - Creating new protest anthems
• [31:01] - Joy and laughter as acts of defiance (the Miami drag show)
• [35:06] - Dancing as personal purpose and fulfillment
• [42:49] - The escalating cost and necessity of risk in activism
• [43:43] - Final thoughts on the importance of community and small acts

Conclusion: Lessons & Tone

The episode is both urgent and warm, filled with Baez's honesty, humor, and hard-earned wisdom. Through stories, self-effacing jokes, and sharp insights on activism and art, Baez calls for a balance between brave action, community, and the necessity of beauty and joy. Wallace’s questions probe both history and the present, surfacing the emotional and tactical realities of resistance—past and present.

Listeners are left with a sense of urgency, pragmatism, and reassurance that while the risks are greater, so too are the rewards of solidarity, authenticity, and hope—one act, song, or dance at a time.

Summary by [Your AI Podcast Summarizer]