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The Best People with Nicolle Wallace
How Tig Notaro's "Laugh Hang" Got Her to the Oscars
00:50:25
Comedic superstar Tig Notaro on her documentary “Come See Me in the Good Light” and the legacy of the poet Andrea Gibson.
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- [00:00]
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Tig Notaro
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Tig Notaro
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Tig Notaro
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Commercial Voice
Credit stop if you cancel any lines.
- [01:00]
Tig Notaro
Qualifying credit required. You know what it is is like. Everybody knows Andrea is a phenomenal poet. But to me, Andrea is also just a phenomenal laugh hang. And seeing how hard and deep Andrea is laughing and I love the lines on Andrea's face and when they smile and laugh and those lines get lifted up, I'm like, I can feel that Andrea is still here somehow.
- [01:39]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
This week's guest is an award winning comedian. When she's on anywhere, I record it, I watch it multiple times. I still laugh out loud at her last appearance on the Colbert Show. She's also an accomplished actress who steals the morning show season three. If you know, you know. The reason she's here today though is because she's now an Academy nominated, Oscar nominated documentarian. She's made the most exquisite film about someone I followed for a long time before the film was ever made. Poet Laureate of Colorado, Andrea Gibson. Without any further ado, Tig Notaro is this week's guest on the Best People podcast. Thank you so much for being here.
- [02:25]
Tig Notaro
It is my absolute pleasure to be here. You're a very big. My family is all very big fans of yours, I'll have you know. Yes.
- [02:35]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
That's too much. That's too nice. That's too nice. I am. You've thrown me now. I was gonna tell you how I came to read all of Andrea's poetry. I am a big we can do hard things fan. I use it in my political commentary like come on guys, we can defeat authoritarianism. We can do hard things yeah, yeah. And I saw Abby talk about the way that Andrea's poetry changed Glennon's life. And I thought, oh, my God, I need my life changed. And I became such an admirer, such a fan. And the doc is so exquisite, and it's this most tragic and beautiful and heartbreaking and life affirming story.
- [03:15]
Andrea Gibson (Poet, Narrator)
At first I thought it was a stomach bug, but when it started feeling like a stomach anaconda, my doctor convinced me to get a CAT scan. This is the beginning of nightmare, I thought. But stay with me, all because my story is one about happiness being easier to find once we realize we do not have forever to find it.
- [03:40]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I wonder if you could just talk about how you came to know Andrea and Meg and how you came to make the film.
- [03:47]
Tig Notaro
I mean, I've known Andrea, I think, since 2001, and I lived in Colorado. I've lived there off and on over the years. And a mutual friend introduced us backstage. Andrea used to be a part of this political and social activist performance artist troupe called Vox Feminista. And it was actors, comedians, musicians, a poet. They were definitely preaching to the choir in Boulder, but it was still such a fun experience. But I met Andrea backstage, and our mutual friend was like, oh, this is Andrea Gibson. Andrea's a poet. And I remember looking at Andrea and thinking like, that looks like a rock star, not a poet. And I hang out and hung out in my younger years in, you know, music and rock and roll circles, and I just. I'm not somebody running around in poetry circles. So I was very intrigued. And then Andrea went on stage and just annihilated the audience. I mean, people were in tears and laughing, and I just. I was so blown away. But in the end, meaning when Andrea got off stage, it was confirmed that is a rock star. Andrea was a rock star for sure. And so when Andrea was going through everything, the diagnosis and the ups and downs of the diagnosis, you know, people were helping out in different ways. And our mutual friend Steph Willen, who is in the dinner scene. Yeah,
- [05:32]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Incredible way to open this sort of intimate relationship with the audience. It's so brilliant. It's so brilliant.
- [05:39]
Tig Notaro
It's one of my favorite scenes of any film because it goes from so deeply funny to so heartbreaking. But anyway, so Steph and I were on the phone trying to sort through Andrea's podcast, like, how best to produce and edit and what to do with this. And Steph is the one that said, you know, I feel like Andrea's life right now would make a really great documentary. And I was. I couldn't believe I didn't think of that. And I work so quickly when I am passionate about something.
- [06:14]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Yeah.
- [06:15]
Tig Notaro
And I remember thinking, okay, I gotta call my agents. I gotta. And then I thought, no, I'm not calling my agents. I'm not calling to ask anyone for any advice. I had so much passion, and I could feel it in every fiber of my being. And I just started calling everybody I knew. And when I pitched the idea to Ryan White, the director, and Jess, his producing partner, Jessica Hargrave, who I had known for, like, a decade, and we had talked about maybe working together, and they said maybe we could do a funny documentary. And so I call, and I was like, hear me out. My dear friend, Andrea Gibson is this incredible poet and has been diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer, but is also one of the funniest people that I know. And I just. It gives me chills even talking about it right now. I just. I knew how compelling this person was, and so their response is a little like poetry. Okay. And so I said, let me just send you some things to look at. And, you know, you're either going to be in or out. I'm not going to be able to sell you much further beyond what you see. And three days later, they called and they were like, we are floored, and we're buying our tickets to go to Colorado next week.
- [07:41]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I mean, that gives me. What happened next? What happened next?
- [07:45]
Tig Notaro
I mean, it gives me chill. It never goes away. It was such an emotional and magical time period because Ryan and Jess said, hey, we cannot pitch this to streamers. We have to raise money independently. This is not an easy sell, and we just have to make the most beautiful film we can make. And that's exactly what we did. And so I was like, oh, Glennon and Abby are fans. So I text and I said, hey, I'm working on this project about Andrea Gibson. Let me know if you'd like to chat. And I thought it was a text to line up a call in a week or two, but they sent me a link, a Zoom link. Within seconds, they said, we can talk right now. And I was like, oh, my God, okay. And they work as fast as I do. And so I was on the couch minutes later and telling them about the project, and they were like, okay, yeah, this sounds really interesting, and we'll have to talk about this. And so I was like, all right. And it felt promising. And then we got off Zoom, and I pride myself on not exaggerating. Maybe 30 seconds later, I Get a text saying, we're in.
- [09:05]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I love that.
- [09:07]
Tig Notaro
And I was like, oh, my God. Because Ryan and Jess were like, we're gonna fund this until we can get backing. And I called and said, guys, it's a go. Yeah, it's a real go at this point.
- [09:22]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
So I saw in the credits that Kevin Nealon and Susan Yeagley had also been some of the executive producers. And I told them, I was talking to you today and I want to read what they wrote about you. Tig is one of the highest quality humans I have ever met and worked with. Kevin and I, this is Susan Yeagley writing. Are smitten with her. She is hilarious, dry witted, and full of heart. Come see me in the good light would never have been made without her. It seems like a family was put together. Pretty. I don't know if quickly is the right word, but that there were a lot of people that saw what she saw about the power and the beauty of this story. And you don't hear about a lot of things being made about poets. I mean, that just seems remarkable.
- [10:06]
Tig Notaro
I know it was, yes, people came on quickly, but also people came on passionately, even if they didn't come on in the early days. And it's so funny because I've known Kevin and Susan for years. And I was walking through my neighborhood and I was talking to my wife on the phone, and I saw them outside a cafe and waved. And then I said to Stephanie, I go, you know what? I feel like I should just call you back. I'm gonna go say hi to Kevin and Susan. And then when I did it, just. We immediately, you know, Susan was like, I saw you were doing a show with Andrea Gibson. I love Andrea Gibson. And I was like, you know, Andrea Gibson. I was still kind of. I was just getting used to people outside of, you know, the scrappy poetry world, Colorado artist scene, knowing who Andrea Gibson was. And I said, yeah, I'm working on a documentary. And they were like, oh, my God, we want in. And so it was a lot of that. And it was so important that this project was only driven by love and passion and compassion. And I have been working in Entertainment for almost 30 years, and it is nearly impossible to get through a project without having a weirdo rattling around in the production. And there was not a single weirdo. Nobody was making it difficult. Everybody was saying, yes. Everybody was just truly leading with love.
- [11:50]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
You talked about one of the early scenes. It's so important because it starts with what you talked about, the diagnosis. And you See right away how desperately Andrea wants to live and why. This, you know, epic love story. Their wife, this love story really, like, jumps off the screen, and then the dinner scene comes and gives you your first comedic relief, I think. Will you just talk about how the story was told and how involved Andrea was in the storytelling?
- [12:24]
Tig Notaro
Well, that's what's really interesting about this movie is that Ryan said that Ryan, the director, he said he has never in his entire career had subjects of a movie never ask what they're filming, how they're being framed, what the story is that they're telling. There was pure, pure trust. And I really give Andrea and Meg credit as true artists themselves, that if they agreed to this, then they believed in the talent of the filmmakers. And so it was this incredible experience of artists trusting artists.
- [13:11]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
There's a scene toward the beginning about the mailbox that you're kind of watching it and you're like, what's this about? But I thought about it through the whole thing because I think they say, why can't the mail be delivered? Can't the post person see the effort? And that, to me, is sort of. It was a small piece in terms of the time, and it wasn't as emotionally charged as a lot of it. And it wasn't poetry per se, but it felt so profound. Is that just because of Andrea, or was that a vehicle for something else more subtle?
- [13:51]
Tig Notaro
You know, it was. I can't remember. A friend of mine wrote me after they saw the movie, and they just felt like it was so perfect because Andrea, yes, it's male, but it's also symbolic of Andrea receiving and just being open and constantly receiving and not broken
- [14:13]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
and not sick and not. Like, I was nervous to watch it. And I watched it when it came out, and I thought I wasn't gonna be able to get through it. But there's so much respect for the emotional journey of the audience that it's heartbreaking, but it's so life affirming. And every instant of it is like that, right?
- [14:35]
Tig Notaro
Yes. And what's so funny is Meg, Andrea's wife, she said that to this day, people are constantly reaching out and sending her new mailboxes. And she's like, I don't want a new mailbox. I want this mailbox.
- [14:50]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
That's the point. That's the point of the mailbox story. Like, this one works. This one works.
- [14:55]
Tig Notaro
This is the one.
- [14:56]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I don't want to be invasive, but you fall in love with both of them. And Meg has posted a little bit about how Andrea's gift to her was to surround her with all these friends and all these friendships and all this love. How is she doing?
- [15:09]
Tig Notaro
Well, Meg refers to Andrea's passing as Andrea's alleged death. That's just classic Meg to me. You know, of course she's grieving, but I think she maintains an ongoing relationship with Andrea through, You know, she feels very connected to Andrea. Like, she's. She said that she goes to bed at night and asks Andrea put their arms around her. And she said she feels Andrea and goes right to sleep. And, you know, she's talked about the saying of, people die twice. Once when they pass away, and then the second time is when the last person says the person's name. And Meg is like, the way it's going, it feels like Andrea will live forever.
- [16:02]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
The film certainly makes that the most likely scenario. And I was so heartened about humanity to see how many people celebrated them. And this sort of eternalness of the message about learning to live when you know you're gonna die is beautiful, but it's also totally fucking depressing. I mean, it makes me want to. You know, you want to go out and grab everybody that isn't enjoying every moment and say, do you know how many people we kill for time?
- [16:31]
Tig Notaro
Yeah.
- [16:31]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
And I wonder how urgent that feels in this moment. That feels really hard right now in our politics and in our country.
- [16:39]
Tig Notaro
I mean, that's why. Yeah. This movie feels so timely. Just the time suck that is politics. And My apologies. But the news and all of the. No offense taken.
- [16:55]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think that's why they resonated so much with me. Like, chin up, you know, this is the only life you've got.
- [17:05]
Tig Notaro
Yeah. I mean, for myself, even having been through cancer as well, and feeling like, oh, I'll never, ever forget what this feels like to be thankful and present. And then time goes on and I become just like everybody else. But what's nice is to be tethered to that experience. That's a positive from what I came out of. And I think that for people that haven't gotten a terrifying diagnosis, this movie can jump in place of that and hopefully show you that, like Andrea's poem, the Little Things, it's just so, so deeply beautiful. And it really wakes you up to those moments.
- [18:01]
Andrea Gibson (Poet, Narrator)
I wrote a new kind of bucket list. It isn't an index of wild adventures. It requires no bungee jumps, wingsuits or hot air balloons. No passport stamps or dolphin swims. As riveting as those things may be, none of them ignite me as much as what most of us were taught to think of as the little things. These are my biggest, tiniest dreams.
- [18:29]
Tig Notaro
And you see those people that haven't been diagnosed with cancer and have had kind of a lucky route in life, but when you see the joy in squirrels and basketball and just lying around.
- [18:43]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Snow.
- [18:44]
Tig Notaro
Snow.
- [18:45]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I've had to reread the snow. This endless winter here in New York.
- [18:50]
Tig Notaro
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:52]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I think it's also Andrea's ability to give voice to both sides of that and to give voice to that clenching being, the thing that kept them in pain and then releasing and just letting life happen and loving all of it.
- [19:06]
Tig Notaro
Yeah.
- [19:07]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Being. I mean, I feel that way every time I get my mammogram. The terror. And then every time I'm, you know, if it's okay, you feel the. Really. And I know you turned your cancer story into a special. How do you do that? How do you take this harrowing thing and make it so funny?
- [19:23]
Tig Notaro
Well, I didn't know if it was going to resonate with anybody or myself, but it's what I do. You know, my brain goes in that direction. And as soon as I got out of surgery, I immediately. My brain was throwing this idea of, well, yeah, it was like, oh, my gosh, you have to do standup without your shirt off. That'll be so funny. And then I'm, like, batting it away, going, well, I can't do that. Yeah, yeah, no, you can do. That'd be fun. So that's just the way my brain works. And I don't really. I'm very thankful. My joke. My joke. Cut that out. My wife. My wife has a joke about how certain people just talk to one another in life, like, with no sense of humor, and they just go through life saying, like, good morning. What would you like for breakfast? Hope you have a nice day. Welcome home. How was your day? Well, I'm tired. Good night. And we'll kind of reenact that around the house. But I'm so thankful that that is not how I'm going through this life of mine. And it's just what I'm mainly learning, though, is, yeah, it's good to break the tension with the comedy, but I have to go back after the tension is broken and work on the issue and deal with what's below the surface. But I'm very thankful for the comedy that cracks it open.
- [20:53]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
What do you mean by that?
- [20:55]
Tig Notaro
Well, like, say, even in a relationship, you know, you can have an argument, and then, like, Stephanie and I break the tension all the time with a joke, you know, in an argument. One time I went and pressed my hands up against a window and started singing a musical about how things used to be and it made her laugh. And we revisit that a lot. And it's called There Was a Time is the name of the song that we improv all the time. We're like, there was a time and so it'll crack it open and we'll be laughing and then you could just keep laughing and then go about your day, but you have to crack open and then go back and say, wait a minute. So excavate. Yeah, yeah.
- [21:48]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
We'll take a quick break right here. When we're back, much more with comedian, actress and Oscar nominated documentary film producer Tig Notaro. Don't go anywhere.
- [22:04]
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- [23:27]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I wanted to ask you about talking about your relationship. I mean the, the jokes about the questions that your wife asks that are googleable. Is one of the things that, that I quote to both my son and my husband, like, was that not googleable? Because like, especially when you're, when you're trying to move the family unit to time and Space.
- [23:52]
Tig Notaro
Yeah.
- [23:52]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
You know, especially with Waze. How far are we Is your phone. I mean, you've been on the phone the whole ride is not down the ways. Like, I'm looking at the same app you have.
- [24:01]
Tig Notaro
Or the best is, like, when a stranger will reach out to me online and ask me what time I'm going on stage. I'm like, like. Or where's a good place to park for this show? And I'm like, why am I the one that you're reaching out to?
- [24:20]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Right? Or like, how many. I'm not the. I'm the only non Jewish person in my family, and I get how many Night of Hanukkah, and I'm like, I'm the person that you like. I mean, I'm the only one in my modern blended family. Two Jewish husbands. And you're asking me, like, I. I am the one person who does know the answer, but I'm gonna make you Google it anyway.
- [24:39]
Tig Notaro
Right?
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Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I mean, the genius, obviously, is these. The universality of human relationships. And I wonder when you see, you know, the streaming success and the appearance, I mean, is there any part of you at the beginning of your life that you say, like, oh, my God, I can't believe this is how it all worked out? Is this how you saw it all working out at this point?
- [25:01]
Tig Notaro
No, no, I didn't even see it working out at all. I mean, because I failed three grades. I dropped out of high school, and so the last grade I graduated was seventh grade. And there's no part of me. I just saw myself as like a failure dropout that I'd have, like, you know, bare minimum in life and working odd jobs. That's really what I thought that I would do. So where my life has gone now is so beyond that. I always tell my friends and family, especially because I've had so many health issues over the years, I don't want to die at all. But if I do, man, have I had an incredible life. I've had a very challenging life, but, man, it's so beyond anything I could have ever imagined. And people often ask because my parents have all passed away, and people ask like, oh, man, don't you wish your mother saw this or that? And I feel like, yeah, sure. But I also wasn't doing anything for their approval, and they were never like, well, call us when you have an Oscar nomination. You know what I mean? My mother thought I was cool when I was doing one night gigs in Montana on, like a dance floor with everybody's back to me while they're having beers at the bar, you know, and then getting my $75. Like, she'd be like, oh, sweetie, that's awesome. You know what I mean?
- [26:46]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
You made it. Yeah.
- [26:46]
Commercial Voice
Yeah.
- [26:47]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
You're doing your thing. Yeah.
- [26:48]
Tig Notaro
Ye. Yeah. So I kind of. I can't believe I've been in a marriage that I've been with Stephanie 13 years. I can't believe our kids are well adjusted, happy functioning. I can't believe my health has turned around. I can't believe any of it.
- [27:04]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Do you think that, that, I mean, I saw your appearance on Colbert after he was canceled as doing what you just said, like, letting the air out of the tire. There was so much angst around it.
- [27:18]
Tig Notaro
Very sad that your show is ending. I actually saw it coming. I don't know. I mean, you know, when you just, you see something running, it's run its course.
- [27:29]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:35]
Tig Notaro
A few years ago, I was like, yeah, this thing's probably gonna wrap up soon.
- [27:39]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
And it was so funny. And it was the first time I laughed about, you know, I'm over here tracking the death of democracy, and, like, the cold air firing is like a big chapter. And so I'd been covering it with despair and had been covering up my show. And so I, I, I wouldn't. You're the first person that sat down, was like, should have happened ages ago. First time I laughed, it was, it was the first. It's one of the only things I think about when I'm not watching it and start laughing.
- [28:05]
Tig Notaro
Oh, that's so nice.
- [28:07]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
But how important? And, and I guess the, the real question, I want to know is why is humor such a threat to people who don't like being made fun of?
- [28:18]
Tig Notaro
You know, this is an ongoing mystery to me. I grew up in a family where we ribbed each other, and it was like, it wasn't an intense attack. I think that comedy can be so healing and so connecting. And I remember after I had cancer and I had my album come out, and on my very old podcast, we had a guest that came on and said something like, well, you know, there's certain things you can't make fun of. And I said, oh, what? Like what? And he said, well, cancer. And I said, oh, my gosh, that's so interesting. I said, I just did a show that was really popular, and it was. I had cancer. And what I was saying, either to him or maybe in another conversation with somebody, is if you tell somebody you're going to make a joke about cancer, their brain is going to construct the worst possible. Like a child pointing at somebody and saying, ha ha, you have cancer. And so in their mind they're like, you cannot do that. But when you find a way into a subject that is, in a roundabout way that wasn't maybe considered before, that's what's so amazing about comedy is you go, oh my God, I was laughing at this woman who's on stage with invasive cancer. Like I can't explain and I don't mean to like pat myself on the
- [29:59]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
back, but it's a release, it's this thing that is so. It's both feared, it's dreaded. When you're in it, it's hard and if you can laugh, you just take your power back. That's how I saw that.
- [30:14]
Tig Notaro
Oh, for sure. But even you run the gamut of light hearted to heavy stuff and you don't know where people are going to be sensitive. And I'm not out there trying to hurt anybody's feelings, I promise. But you step in it sometimes and people are like, they reject it, they're not open to it, they think you're terrible. And you know, it's, it's the journey,
- [30:41]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
it's the journey, it's the journey.
- [30:43]
Tig Notaro
But I do think that anything can be funny if you find the right way in. I think that also what's so important in this conversation, as well as talking about cancer or ribbing other people, you have to really consider, I think, people's intentions. I think it's so deeply important to really consider what people's intentions are. If people misspeak or misstep. I feel like I'm a forgiving person and I feel like if somebody is trying to make things better, try to understand or be like, oh gosh, that was, you know, that was a long time ago. I have new information or I've evolved or I mean, somebody like yourself, you've evolved.
- [31:34]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I was a Bush Cheney staffer. I know.
- [31:37]
Tig Notaro
You know, I had a really interesting experience growing up. There was a teacher that really took an interest in helping me and she was so nice and so supportive, but she was very conservative and very religious and she said some things that I was like, that doesn't feel right or congruent with certain aspects of what she's claiming. And then years later she followed me on social media and everything on her page was like trans rights and like just, I mean it was crazy. And so when I went through Texas, I reached out to her and I said, do you want to have lunch? And she said, I'd love to. So we went to lunch, and I told Stephanie. I said, I'm going to ask her very directly about this, and I'm very curious if she's going to deny or any of. I was just so curious. So we sit down, and I ask her. And I said, I remember you saying this and doing this, and, you know, you were very supportive. But I just. There were these elements and statements, and she said, yeah, I did that. I said that. And she said, but you know what? I've changed. And she said, I grew up in a family and in an environment that I thought I believed these things. She's still a religious person, but she said she realized that. That those thoughts and feelings were not her own. And I just. I think about it all the time. And mainly that she took ownership of it and said that she actually feels differently.
- [33:23]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I think about it every day. I mean, it like, animates why I do what I do, that. If people are open to change. Right? And we can debate whether they are or not. Maybe there's just one piece of information that'll. To your earlier story, crack them open. And you still have to go deep and you still have to figure out how we got here. But, I mean, that's how I see your art, right. The human condition. And I think that overlays this moment more than anything else, that you have to believe that there's some portion of the country that's still taking in information and just to bring it back to come see me in the good light. I mean, just tell me about the. The experience of the audience as you've taken. Andrea went to Sundance, right? And you saw the movie with an audience, right?
- [34:11]
Tig Notaro
Yeah.
- [34:12]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
What was that like?
- [34:13]
Tig Notaro
That was just so magical because it didn't seem like Andrea and Meg were gonna make it out because Andrea was not doing well. And just tumors all throughout the lungs and struggling on stairs. And then we get a call, like a day or two before that, they're gonna drive out. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is incredible. And gotten an Airbnb, and we called it Snuggle down, because we were just all hanging out and sitting by the fire and having tea and. And normally when I'm at Sundance, I've been like, five times, and you're at parties and events and screenings and all dinners, all these things. But when we were there for this documentary, we were just in our Snuggle down, and it was so nice. And then we go to the screening. Andrea was so nervous, understandably. So I've been the subject of a documentary. So watching it in front of an audience, it's so unbelievably vulnerable. And I remember in the first five minutes, I mean, you could feel the audience just fully riding every emotion, no matter how deep and dark and laughing as hard as, like, a Will Ferrell movie. And Andrea was just like, ugh, okay, I'm good. But we had no idea how well the movie was received. We knew that the screening went well, and this guy stood up during the Q and A, and he looked like he could have moments ago. Just turned off the Joe Rogan podcast, and he was like. He goes, this movie needs to be seen by everybody. And we were like, whoa. And people were cheering, and it was just. It was magical, you know? And to go back, your question of have people changed their view or been more open or compassionate and. Absolutely. And that's what's so powerful about this. And it's. That is all Andrea and Meg and all of the filmmakers could ever want.
- [36:25]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Andrea wrote. Is it Maga Hat in the Chemo Room. Is that the name?
- [36:31]
Tig Notaro
Yeah.
- [36:32]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
And I thought it might be one of the only ways to sort of, with love, make the point that can't take all that stuff with you. How much time did Andrea spend thinking about politics?
- [36:47]
Tig Notaro
I think it probably was very different at very different points in their life. I mean, I think it's always been wrapped in there. But, man, when I first met Andrea, like I said, in that political and social activist group, it was, you know, in our 20s and in Boulder, you know, it was.
- [37:11]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I hear you.
- [37:12]
Tig Notaro
Yes. Yeah. But, you know, to go back to, like, you can't take it with you. That's also like the moment in the movie when Andrea says about their gender.
- [37:24]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Yep.
- [37:25]
Tig Notaro
They don't care anymore.
- [37:27]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
The scene is. Is powerful. They talk about how they used to react and how they feel now. That right. Talk about that scene.
- [37:37]
Tig Notaro
Yeah. Just that Andrea. It all goes back to knowing that your time is limited. And obviously any of us can go at any moment, but. And Andrea had a pretty good idea of how long that they might be around. And they used to be hurt if somebody didn't understand that they were non binary and didn't quite feel like male and didn't quite feel female. And then all of that went away because they said that they just feel just like themselves. They just don't feel attached to it. And it's funny because people will correct me and reach out and be upset with me if I'm in an interview with somebody that, especially before the movie came out. If somebody was referring to Andrea as she her. And I didn't correct them. And I remember just feeling like, ugh, just wait till the movie comes out. Like, this wasn't Andrea's vibe. You know, this is not where Andrea got to in life. And so there's no world that Andrea would say, why didn't you correct them? You know, it just, it reached this very different place.
- [38:54]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Almost bigger.
- [38:55]
Tig Notaro
Much bigger.
- [38:56]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
They became bigger. My conversation with Tig Notaro continues right after the break. We'll be back in one minute.
- [39:13]
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- [40:05]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
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Tig Notaro
Wallace here with Tyler Reddick.
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- [40:36]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I want to ask you about. You had a podcast with Cheryl Hines about documentaries. I mean, it was about a lot of things, about life.
- [40:44]
Tig Notaro
It was barely about anything,
- [40:48]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
but I mean, it was you guys.
- [40:52]
Tig Notaro
We basically would talk about who we were most attracted to in the documentaries that we watched.
- [40:57]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
It was nonsense, the perfect fodder for a podcast. And I wonder what it's been like to see her take such a public stage inside the Maha Maga movement. As someone that you worked with and obviously have been friends with.
- [41:17]
Tig Notaro
It's been very strange. I had a video pop up. You know, your phone likes to remind you. A video popped up of. I mean, Cheryl and I were very drawn to each other, just with nonsense and silliness, and we would have the deepest, hardest laughs. And this. This video popped up a couple of weeks ago of when we had our podcast. We were doing a streaming episode and doing shots and slapping each other in the face with tortillas. And I was just looking at it going, man, that was just three years ago. But my friendship with her predated Bobby. And there were things that he thought and felt that I didn't agree with, but it wasn't. He didn't have the platform that he got during the pandemic. And I think that I needed to stop doing the podcast because it was so ridiculous, it was so stupid, our show, that it was hard to be doing that when he was gaining momentum and speaking. People would interrupt my standup shows and yell that Bobby is crazy. And I was telling Cheryl, I said, I know it's a small percentage that pushes back online or yells out at shows, but I was like, man, this is not my world. I don't want to be a part of this. And she was like, I understand. But she wanted to keep doing the podcast, and. And I had to step away. But I loved her so much, and she wanted to bring her best friend Rachel Harris, in to continue doing the show, which I was fine for them to do. And what was most upsetting to me was that we were in such opposing places. But I continued to reach out to her and send her love and support because I didn't know what was going on behind closed doors, because things shifted
- [43:36]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
very severely, and she seemed to shift very dramatically. Publicly, I only see what's public, and so publicly, she seemed to shift very dramatically. Yeah.
- [43:49]
Tig Notaro
And she would respond very pleasantly. Thanks, lady. Oh, this means so much, and I love you and miss you and all of that, and. But then I realized one day, she doesn't ever reach out to me anymore. She responds to me, but she doesn't reach out to me. And I had to kind of shake myself out of denial that, oh, she's gone, and, okay, I need to let this go. I need to let it go. But what was a bummer is there've been some interviews claiming that I just dumped her and just left her in the dust because of Bobby. But I was trying to be a friend to her, even though I didn't feel like I could continue with the podcast. But it's been very strange, and I think I've moved past the Confusion and sadness.
- [44:49]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I've tried to rewire my brain for nine years to the Trump era to understand what you're talking about. I've really tried to understand both paths of someone you love taking on a prominent role in a movement that you think threatens people you love or your own family.
- [45:06]
Tig Notaro
I know it threatens people I love. That's where it's like, it goes beyond like, I think it could. I know it does. Yeah, I know it does.
- [45:14]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I mean, what you described so thoughtfully and carefully is this thing that my brain just cannot wire itself to understand and make sense of what happens to people who you thought you knew. And the idea that the two sides are now their value proposition is totally divorced one from the other does feel like a fracture that isn't just about any one person in your life or any one person in my life. It feels like this rupture in our country. And I wonder if you feel like you can see how we knit it back together. Hmm.
- [45:57]
Tig Notaro
Wouldn't that be amazing if I had the answer to fix that?
- [46:02]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Or, like, if we were like marketers, we'd be like, watch the movie. Right? I mean, right? Because. I mean, that's why. And let's just take share a lot of it. That's why, like, it doesn't fracture because someone supports someone that you didn't support. It fractures when one threatens the other's family or the people they love.
- [46:20]
Tig Notaro
Yes, for sure. But I think about that a lot. When you see people's choices that are so confusing and flipping so wildly on topics that you thought they valued. Yeah, yeah, valued. And then. And then you realize, like. Or did they value? Like, was there really any heel dug in on any area?
- [46:47]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
And then that's the gaslighty mindfuck piece of it. Like, did any of it mean anything? I could have a podcast about just this topic because I spent all my time, obviously, thinking about it and trying to figure out. I have to ask you. I mean, Amanda is my favorite. You completely, completely steal that season for me of the morning show. Was it fun to play? You know, I like to think of him as Elon Musk's fixer.
- [47:08]
Tig Notaro
Yeah, it was so fun. You know, people were always like, God, is that so intimidating? Working with Jon Hamm and Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston. It's like, I've luckily had relationships with them over the years. And John, I've known since before he was Jon Hamm. And so when I got paired with him, I was like, this is gonna be so fun.
- [47:32]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
It's so perfect. It's so brilliant.
- [47:34]
Tig Notaro
It's just nice, you know, when you're in a scene with. Because I'm a standup comedian that has said yes to people bringing me on their show. And then I have to see myself in an interview where underneath me, it says, actor Tig Notaro, and I'm like, oh, my God, no, I'm not an actor. I'm a standup comedian. But it's nice to have that comfort with actors that are so talented, but then they give you a little bit of grace. And I have that extra comfort with John, which is, again, so nice. And it was. Yeah, it was so fun. I feel so lucky. It's an embarrassment of riches, really.
- [48:15]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
This was so fun. I just wanna ask if we can do it again.
- [48:18]
Tig Notaro
I would love to. Oh, my gosh. Will you ask a question for my handsome podcast, which is my show?
- [48:25]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Of course. Of course. I mean, tell me about why are we all on the podcast and why are we all on this medium? And what. Like, I feel like this is a place and still in tv, you feel like you have to try to be perfect. But your podcast isn't just in our ears. It also is hilarious, which is a different level and a different genre. But just what do you get out of it? We know what we get from it. What do you get out of it?
- [48:50]
Tig Notaro
Well, I mean, with standup, I write my material. I know what I'm gonna say. I mean, I definitely will improv on stage, for sure. And then I'm also on Star Trek, Starfleet Academy.
- [49:04]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
As I was walking down, all your Star Trek fans grab me. They're like, you're talking to Tig.
- [49:10]
Tig Notaro
But I have to go in and do lines that people wrote, which I think they write my character so well. But then with podcasting, you just have that freedom to go wherever you want to go. And part of the appeal for me, I mean, I've been podcasting for a long time. There's moments on the show where we also have the freedom to be serious and take real questions, but we also have just stupid ones to bounce around as well. And I just like the freedom.
- [49:50]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Yeah. I think that podcasting really cemented itself in our sort of media landscape during COVID and my friends became my podcast because I could stick them in my ear and do laundry. And I did. And it's such a deep connection. And then I think for people like you, who can also be that connected and make us laugh, it's just. It's the deepest, most meaningful connection out there. People can't live without it anymore.
- [50:18]
Tig Notaro
Yeah, it's really wild. And then it's now flipping into everybody. It's all video now. And it's like it's just this crazy cycle. But I so really do appreciate what you do. And you're just such a smart, reasonable point of view. That's so flattering.
- [50:37]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
That's so flattering.
- [50:38]
Tig Notaro
When I got the invite, I thought, I wonder if you know who I am or if it was your producer thinking like, oh, maybe have this person on because they produced this documentary.
- [50:48]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I such a fan. And someone said, oh, I was a fan of Andrea. And that felt so wrong to me. And I said, I am a fan. I mean, I just think that everything they wrote is so important and then that it's you that made the doc was just so. What's your favorite moment from the doc?
- [51:07]
Tig Notaro
The dinner scene. The dinner scene.
- [51:09]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I love the mailbox. I love the dinner zoo, but I just. There's something about the mailbox that I just love.
- [51:16]
Tig Notaro
You know what it is is like everybody knows Andrea is a phenomenal poet, but to me, Andrea is also just a phenomenal laugh hang. And seeing how hard and deep Andrea is laughing in that scene like it is, and I love the lines on Andrea's face and when they smile and laugh and those lines get lifted up, I'm like, I can feel that Andrea is still here somehow. And I think that scene just really, really captures who Andrea Gibson is. Because I always say everything was so precious to Andrea, but also, meanwhile, nothing was too precious. And you could have the deepest conversation and then you could laugh. So inappropriate with this person. And that's what that scene is to me is the depth and the silliness that was Andrea Gibson.
- [52:28]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
I love it so much. I've loved talking to you so much. Thank you so much for all this time. Please, thank you. Please come back.
- [52:34]
Tig Notaro
Oh my gosh.
- [52:41]
Interviewer (Podcast Host)
Thank you so much for listening to the Best People. You can continue to subscribe to our premium service on Apple Podcasts to get this and other msnow podcasts ad free. You'll also get early access and exclusive bonus content. Content like a new Main justice episode from Andrew Weissman and Mary McCord all about election integrity heading into the ever important midterm election season. All episodes of this podcast are also available on YouTube. Visit msnow thebestpeople to watch. The Best People is produced by Vicky Vergelina. Our associate producer is Rana Shahbazi with additional production support from Ayan Chatterjee and Priyanka Sarkal. Our audio engineers are Greg Devens II and Hazik bin Ahmad Fared. Katie Lau is our senior manager of audio production Pat Burkey is the senior executive producer of Deadline White House Brad Gold is the executive producer of content strategy Aisha Turner is the executive producer of audio and Madeline Herringer is the senior vice president in charge of audio, digital and long form. Search for the best people wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to follow the series.
- [54:02]
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