← The Best People with Nicolle Wallace
The Best People with Nicolle Wallace
Jason Bateman Can’t Look Away
00:41:15
On the first episode of The Best People, Nicolle Wallace and Jason Bateman talk podcasting, Trump and body splats on the pavement.
Loading summary
Transcript248 lines
- [00:00]
Designer Shoe Warehouse
At Designer Shoe Warehouse, we believe that shoes are an important part of, well.
- [00:05]
Jason Bateman
Everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal.
- [00:11]
Designer Shoe Warehouse
Bests, from building pillow forts to building.
- [00:14]
Jason Bateman
A life for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com MSNBC's.
- [00:32]
Jen Psaki
Jen Psaki, host of the Briefing We've.
- [00:35]
Nicole Wallace
Never experienced a moment like this in our country and it leaves us all with a choice. Are we gonna speak out or are we gonna be pressured into silence? I've worked for presidents. I've faced the tough questions from the press and even threats from the Kremlin. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that you can't cower to bullies. You don't need to be hopeless. We have our voices and I will continue using mine.
- [00:55]
Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [01:07]
Sean Hayes
But there's a writer's room somewhere. Somewhere, yeah. And in that writer's room they are figuring out these seasonal arcs that are just, they're just gobsmacking. Like for instance, you know, remember for a moment there it was, it was.
- [01:21]
Jason Bateman
Very plausible that he was going to win the election but start serving in prison.
- [01:30]
Nicole Wallace
Hi everyone, it's Nicole Wallace from Deadline White House. I'm here with a new project. It's called the Best People With Nicole Wallace. The best people are accomplished, but they're also accessible. And here at the Best People, I'm going to share them with all of you. I'm so excited to do that. The first person that I reached out to is the person who hosts my most favorite podcast, Smartless. But when I asked Jason Bateman for advice about how to podcast, he said it's called Smart List for a reason. I don't have any advice, but he did agree to talk to me, which is very good news because he has a huge political brain and watches more MSNBC than I do, on top of being an award winning actor and director. So this is the Best People and this is Jason Bateman.
- [02:20]
Jason Bateman
I want to be that person just off your camera so bad on that show, the big Steadicam tilt down. It's all so exciting. I'm very addicted to your show. Very big fan, very excited to be here.
- [02:34]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, you're so nice. You know, I'm very addicted to Smartless in this thing. Like I really believe in never meeting your heroes. It can only go downhill. I don't ever do it like, Steph Curry is my hero. I hope to never meet him. If I saw him in an airport, I'd run.
- [02:48]
Jason Bateman
No. And you guys, like, he is, like, run to him. He could not be.
- [02:55]
Nicole Wallace
He's my hero. I love Shohei Ohtani. I feel like. I don't think we run in the same circles. I don't know that I'd run into him. I really try to. Never meet my hair. Never. I don't know if that's getting old. And, like, I love you guys. Like, I thought I was doing. I really thought I was rocking Covid. I was like, you know, I'm eating green soup. I'm nailing, like, third grade. I was teaching my son third grade. I was anchoring out of the basement, and the numbers were up. And I started listening to Smart List, and I would laugh until I cried. And I was like, you know what? I'm probably not okay if these guys are making me cry.
- [03:26]
Jason Bateman
Exactly.
- [03:26]
Nicole Wallace
So I would just weep. You know, you'd be talking to. I don't know. One of it wasn't even Covid anymore, and I'd still cry like, Courteney Cox plays a piano, and I didn't know any of you, and I was just weeping. I'm like, that's so beautiful. And I really. I think I tapped into my own, like, instability and isolation from how in love I was with you guys on Smartlist.
- [03:45]
Jason Bateman
Yeah. Well, thank you. It wasn't some necessary nonsense during that really kind of fraught period. And we were really surprised that people were listening to us because it was just a selfish sort of thing for us to kind of stay in contact when you couldn't be in physical contact or proximity. And so it was kind of this zoom that turned into, you know, something to monetize, as Sean is so good at doing.
- [04:09]
Sean Hayes
He's like, just, guys, let me.
- [04:11]
Jason Bateman
Let me have my guys just run some numbers. Because this is fun and everything, but I think we could make some money. I was like, all right. So, yeah, that was a big shocker and remains a big shocker. We thought that was. It was all going to go away after Covid, and we'd get back to our lives of not doing it and actually seeing each other in person and.
- [04:28]
Sean Hayes
And there was such an audience there.
- [04:30]
Jason Bateman
By the time Covid was done. And we were getting so many flattering incoming calls to talk to people that we would never speak to. You know, to your point about Shohei, Ohtani or Steph Curry, like, you're not going to bump into those people. It's possible to like, talk to folks that you can really get a lot smarter speaking to. And unless you're trapped in an elevator, they're not going to speak to you. So it was our little one hour elevator breakdown.
- [04:54]
Nicole Wallace
Why did you think in the beginning that someone would listen to 45 minutes of, you know, like, the thing about cable is like, you're trying to be so efficient with words and time under this sort of hypothesis that people are busy and it's so competitive, but people are, are really drawn to these really intimate, really unscripted, really long conversations. And as someone sort of on the other end of that medium, making my first foray into this one, that in and of itself is like a delicious, wonderful, like, affirming reality about what people will listen to.
- [05:30]
Jason Bateman
Well, first, obviously, we did not think anyone was going to listen and that no one really needed to listen because, you know, it costs next to nothing to put one of these things up. I mean, you can go down to the Apple Store and get a podcast mic and stick it in your laptop. That's all we do really. It's just a zoom. The fact that people did check us out, probably because, you know, the first wave of guests were just some of our fancy friends that were nice enough to say yes.
- [05:55]
Sean Hayes
And then I guess somewhere through that.
- [05:58]
Jason Bateman
Sample size, people kind of liked the ability to go about their day and, you know, multitask and kind of half listen to us because we are not journalists. We don't claim to know much about anything and are happy to sit there and have smarter people answer our questions that are really coming from a layman's point of view. And, you know, he's now since become a controversial figure. But Charlie Rose is somebody that I.
- [06:27]
Sean Hayes
Just, I watch every, every single episode he ever did for no other reason.
- [06:31]
Jason Bateman
Than he kind of.
- [06:32]
Sean Hayes
He was.
- [06:33]
Jason Bateman
He's us, you know, as far as like being a non expert in most of the industries and experts that he had on his show.
- [06:42]
Sean Hayes
And he would just basically, well, explain.
- [06:44]
Jason Bateman
That to me, you know, how. Why, why are you the king of drywall? You know, why were you drawn to Sheetrock? You know, when you're. And what is it that makes it such a big industry?
- [06:53]
Sean Hayes
Like, you know, and like, that's a.
- [06:54]
Jason Bateman
Fascinating inn to just be kind of a common person that is curious about the industry that might live right next door to you. So.
- [07:03]
Sean Hayes
And you have. One of the reasons I love your.
- [07:05]
Jason Bateman
Show is you have People skills, and you're able to listen and talk, and you never get the sense that you're just waiting for them to stop talking so you can go to the next question on your buck slip. There you're listening to them and the audience is listening as well. And so you are probably going to arrive at the same question the audience has. If you take the same position the audience has, which is just listening, you're not prepared, hopefully. You know, I mean, the other two on our show are not. That was part of the design. That's the, you know, to have a surprise guest that was really selfishly so that the other two don't have to do anything. But it also affords them the same perspective as the audience, that they're just listening, they don't have anything loaded. And the next question is just going to simply be prompted by being a part of the conversation and listening.
- [07:55]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think that's it. And I think that goes beyond what either of us does. Like, I think that's the political answer. And there's something, there's something like perversely brilliant about Trump hearing anger and then feeding it back to voters. One of his political gifts is like he hears the grievance and then he makes it clear to his voters that he hears them.
- [08:17]
Jason Bateman
Right. And are you, you're implying, I think, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that there's a baked in level of cynicism there and manipulation and opportunity to tap into a large group of people that are aggrieved and that, well, their votes count the same, so let's go after them. Because there's a lot of people that are pissed off. I can't begrudge them that because that's kind of the game of politics.
- [08:39]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [08:39]
Jason Bateman
But once you're elected, it's like, can we now, like, actually help the country? Instead of continuing the cynicism and trying to put more people into. Is basically creating a larger group of people aggrieved with his policies and, and then somehow convincing them that, yeah, I know I'm the, I'm the arsonist, but trust me, I'll be a firefighter soon. You know, I don't know how he's.
- [09:03]
Nicole Wallace
Able to do both, but I think politics is like Nordstrom, right? Like, the customer's always right. I worked at Nordstrom one year in college and, like, people would return things that were like 11 years old and stained. And I remember going to like a manager. I'm like, you're gonna take that skirt back and they're like, yep, we take back any like, like, so the voter's always right. But I think that to the degree that voters were saying something about Biden's age or about inflation or about the democracy, you know, instead of trying to change what they were saying, I think people are too slow to not listen to it. But I do think it's still true that people, face to face, don't hate each other as much as people do online. And so I feel like to the degree that I think we could be okay. I still think it's like going and getting in front of people. Like, I still think the resurgence of, like, if this were political, this is retail politics, right? It is two people talking to each other and listening to each other. I think that's what politics has to go back to. And then I think.
- [10:02]
Jason Bateman
But that presupposes that they have access to a speaker from which a bunch of facts are coming. So what do you do about that? You know your point about the customer's always right. Well, they're making their right decision on facts that might not be facts. And so what do you do about that? In other words, do you think that. Do you think Trump would have gotten the same number of votes if the people who voted for him had access to. Or the curiosity to seek out and find the truth? Because they're not getting the truth over on Fox. This 780 some million dollar lawsuit is proof of it. And that was just one issue.
- [10:44]
Sean Hayes
So what do you do about that? You know, Pete Buttigieg, that's so good.
- [10:48]
Nicole Wallace
I can't believe you're asking me a question. I wanted to ask you. So here's my. This is my thing. This is the thing that keeps me up at night. I think the truth has to be the next moonshot. And I think that all the smartest people the world, maybe all the fired scientists, have to figure out how to make the truth the thing that's sticky, the thing that goes viral. Like, the truth has to be the thing that people are sending around and they're like, you know, look at this when no one's watching, this is the truth about Trump, or this is the truth about.
- [11:13]
Jason Bateman
But who's the arbiter of what is true? I've always fantasized that, you know, that little grade that's on the front of restaurants, you know, abc, it would be great if media was forced to have that little bug in the bottom right corner of, you know, just like on MSNBC during the day, it's news reporting and it's facts. And at night it. His opinion. And like that should have its separate letter. No better, no worse, just identifies that. And therefore you can intellectualize the thing that you're talking about, opine on, whatever it is, but the same burden is not placed on that reporter in front. And then on Fox, they can go and freestyle if they want, and on msnbc, you can freestyle if you want. I happen to think I'm a huge fan, but I happen to think that MSNBC doesn't drift from the truth.
- [12:00]
Sean Hayes
They just have this immense amount, amount of really interesting, solid facts to talk.
- [12:06]
Jason Bateman
About, and so they don't have to freestyle and embellish or so I. I don't know. Talking about Pete Buttigieg, he's been on.
- [12:13]
Sean Hayes
Fox a bunch of times and is.
- [12:15]
Jason Bateman
Somehow, you know, reaching that audience.
- [12:17]
Sean Hayes
I. I asked him why he's the.
- [12:19]
Jason Bateman
Only one that's really been on there. And why aren't. Are the politicians not being invited on because Fox is afraid of what they're going to say, or the politicians not want to be on because they don't want to take the heat?
- [12:30]
Nicole Wallace
Do you know, I think it's probably a combination of both, but he's been going on for years. I remember when I was first dating my husband, we were going to go get something to eat and he said, no, I can't. We got to stay in. I said, why? He said, there's a Buttigieg town hall on Fox 2018 or 19. And I was like, we're staying home for that. Like, okay. I mean, it's just like, it's great tv. It's amazing that he does it. And like, he's been doing it for almost 10 years. Like, is part of who he is. To your point about news and perspective, I think it should go farther. Like, I actually think we should reveal, you know, like almost like a confessional. You know, I worked for George W. Bush. I worked for Dick Cheney. I still like them. I know they did lots of things wrong. I worked like. I also think that if we're part of our own sort of responsibility for our own credibility, I think putting it all out there and being more transparent, I mean, I love Pete. I love everything that he's doing. And I think that that's not only is that like the right model, I think it's the only mod. Like, you cannot leave out half of the country. And, you know, you don't need to win everybody, but you have to win over some of those folks.
- [13:35]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, but the truth tellers or whatever book all the facts sit in from day to day.
- [13:42]
Sean Hayes
Is not.
- [13:44]
Jason Bateman
There is no attempt to hide that from the Republican voters.
- [13:47]
Sean Hayes
It's ubiquitous. It is. I know you have to make a real effort to stay insulated from the facts and common sense. It's everywhere except on Fox or Breitbart.
- [14:01]
Jason Bateman
Or whatever the hell those. The spots are. I was telling my girls in 2020, I was saying, you guys are gonna look back. This is the most fascinating year. This is gonna be a hard one to beat with COVID and with Jan6 and the rest. And it just keeps getting more and more interesting. You know, I joked earlier about the Trump show I'm addicted to.
- [14:23]
Sean Hayes
I really am fascinated. I can't stop. Stop watching the things that he does.
- [14:29]
Jason Bateman
And the things that he says and marry that to the fact that there are 80 some million people that would vote again for him tomorrow.
- [14:36]
Sean Hayes
Tomorrow, you know, is just a social.
- [14:39]
Jason Bateman
Phenomenon, a political phenomenon that I just can't get my head around. And I don't want to ignore it. We are all neighbors. We all share this country together.
- [14:47]
Sean Hayes
And so I want to understand it.
- [14:49]
Jason Bateman
And I know that there's genuine dissatisfaction with their standing in life or the system and whatnot.
- [14:57]
Sean Hayes
So that's legit it. I'm sensitive to that.
- [14:59]
Jason Bateman
I respect that. But whatever section there is that is kind of doing it just to stick it to the libs, I.
- [15:07]
Sean Hayes
It's not schadenfreude, but I. I am curious to see what they're going to.
- [15:11]
Jason Bateman
Do when, you know, eggs keep going up and gas keeps going up. And again, I'm not wishing harm on anyone, but it's tragic that I think the people who are least equipped to bear what. What the Trump administration is going to yield are a lot of the folks.
- [15:28]
Sean Hayes
That voted for him. And that's really freaking sad.
- [15:31]
Nicole Wallace
Again, I don't wish any person or business financial harm, but in some ways, the market reaction brought new people to the fight, and I think that's what.
- [15:42]
Jason Bateman
Happened to Elon Musk's bottom line. Jesus Christ.
- [15:46]
Nicole Wallace
Right? And so, like, I, again, I don't wish anyone financial ruined. I don't wish anyone, you know, and I welcome them to the effort to not have the whole country sort of held hostage to the whims of Trump. I mean, the tariff thing, like, isn't even a thing. There aren't any. There are no deals. They're not on, they're not off. They're just like whatever he wakes up.
- [16:08]
Jason Bateman
And does, and to the extent there are, you got to eat it, you know, because you made so much the last few years.
- [16:13]
Sean Hayes
Like what?
- [16:14]
Nicole Wallace
But it might take something that he can't spin his way out of to make everybody understand.
- [16:21]
Jason Bateman
Right. And that's unfortunate that there's only one way that medicine's gonna go down or the lesson's gonna be absorbed. Like, gotta have to learn the lesson the hard way again. To my point, that's gonna be a painful lesson for mostly the people that voted for him.
- [16:35]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [16:36]
Jason Bateman
And that's tragic. But I guess it's the only way to break the fever.
- [16:40]
Sean Hayes
Perhaps.
- [16:42]
Nicole Wallace
We're gonna take a quick break right here when we come back. Welcome back. We'll have more with Jason Bateman. Back in a moment.
- [16:54]
Designer Shoe Warehouse
This season, let your shoes do the talking. Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word. From cool sneakers that look good with everything to easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for every year from the brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today.
- [17:25]
BetterHelp
This is an ad by BetterHelp. June is Men's Mental Health Month, and every year 6 million men suffer from depression. If you're feeling overwhelmed, the strongest thing you can do is ask for help. And BetterHelp makes it easy. Take a short online quiz and connect from home with a qualified therapist. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H E L p.com it's conversation, it's perspective.
- [17:56]
Jen Psaki
It's the weekend on MSNBC with three new dynamic hosts, Jonathan Capehart, Eugene Daniels and Jackie Alameda. And in the evening, it's the weekend prime time with Eamonn Mohadin, Katherine Rampel, Elise Jordan and Antonia Hilton. Join them as they offer analysis on the week's most important events and set the agenda for the week ahead. The weekend at 7am Eastern and the weekend prime time at 6pm Eastern, Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC.
- [18:30]
Nicole Wallace
I think that what makes the Trump story so amazing is nobody knows what's gonna happen next. You know, I mean, the people in his cabinet don't seem to know what's happening next.
- [18:38]
Sean Hayes
You know, it's crazy, but there's a writer's room somewhere.
- [18:41]
Nicole Wallace
Somewhere.
- [18:42]
Sean Hayes
Yeah. And in that writer's room, they are figuring out these seasonal arcs that are just, they're just gobsmacking and somehow they build to these great, you know, cliffhangers, too that are kind of like well, that's like jumping the shark. Like for instance, you know, remember for a moment there it was very plaus.
- [19:01]
Jason Bateman
That he was going to win the election but start serving in prison. Like that was.
- [19:07]
Sean Hayes
That wasn't that. Would you, would you recognize that wasn't crazy?
- [19:10]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, like that would be a jump the shark moment. But no, actually everything was built towards.
- [19:15]
Sean Hayes
That legitimately can happen.
- [19:16]
Jason Bateman
And people are trying to figure out the apparatus to get classified documents to him, et cetera, et cetera.
- [19:22]
Sean Hayes
And like, to me that's just a.
- [19:24]
Jason Bateman
Show I can't stop watching because he keeps outdoing himself and doubling and tripling.
- [19:31]
Sean Hayes
Down and, and it's not for show.
- [19:33]
Jason Bateman
It's actually a reasonable escalation based on what just happened last. It's like it's really happening.
- [19:41]
Nicole Wallace
Does it change your industry at all when, like the real world is so batshit crazy? Like, does it make people think, you know, like, oh, this couldn't happen when the real world keeps defying that frame of this couldn't happen.
- [19:53]
Jason Bateman
Well, there's plenty of projects I've been involved with, at least two of them that are directly related to key figures in his administration that I have started developing but then backed away because there's no way you can do that because those are still active storylines. And by the time you're done shooting it, the ending may have been written and we won't have it, you know, in the show. So, yeah, it's the notion of what is plausible and possible in the political world. I think the writers rooms are having difficulty imagining it even in a fictional setting. If you were to just have a fictional administration.
- [20:36]
Sean Hayes
Because, you know, I think most of us come off the car lot with.
- [20:40]
Jason Bateman
A standard feature of shame and an ability to become embarrassed. And that's not built into our systems of defense. You can't assume that somebody is going to drive right through shamelessness. And he does and he is. And so we're constantly on our heels because we're surprised.
- [21:03]
Nicole Wallace
I think it's amazing that people haven't adapted to your point. Like, he has no shame. He has like three impulses. Greed, winning. And I don't even know what the third would be. And this is on us too. We still cover him like they're playing 3D chess. They're like, they're always playing whack a mole. Always.
- [21:20]
Sean Hayes
Well, I think it's just a question of like, the problem is that nothing matters. Cause no one's listening. Like the MAGA folks aren't watching MSNBC.
- [21:31]
Jason Bateman
Or reading the New York Times where.
- [21:33]
Sean Hayes
Just one of the really salient points would be, why would this guy be.
- [21:38]
Jason Bateman
Slashing and burning and cutting all the waste and abuse and all that stuff?
- [21:42]
Sean Hayes
And then the other side of his mouth say, I want a $45 million birthday parade. You know, like, it's just.
- [21:49]
Jason Bateman
They're at odds with one another.
- [21:50]
Nicole Wallace
Million dollar jet.
- [21:52]
Sean Hayes
Exactly. That could have filled with bugs, listening devices, and on and on and on. But, like, you wouldn't even waste your time reporting that because it's not going to move the dial, because in the.
- [22:03]
Jason Bateman
Fire hose, you're not even gonna hear.
- [22:05]
Sean Hayes
It or see it.
- [22:06]
Jason Bateman
And so what do you do? People like yourself, you can't stop reporting the news. But, like, who are we talking to?
- [22:13]
Sean Hayes
Do you ever see a day?
- [22:14]
Jason Bateman
And I know this is kind of a third rail for politics, but at what point, if ever, do you think this story would change from reporting on the outrageousness of Trump and his actions, his decisions, his words, and instead move to the. That have voted for him twice? And I know that goes back to the whole story of deplorables. And, like, as soon as that happened, everyone just backed off. And don't ever talk bad about, you know, America and the 80 million. So.
- [22:41]
Sean Hayes
But he's never changed. Like, he's always been the same.
- [22:45]
Jason Bateman
He didn't do a 180 and dupe everybody when he got to the White House.
- [22:48]
Sean Hayes
It's the people that have put him there and then put him there again.
- [22:52]
Jason Bateman
That really deserve a great deal of responsibility and a talking to.
- [22:57]
Sean Hayes
I'm sorry.
- [22:58]
Jason Bateman
And I say that with love. They are our neighbors, as I said.
- [23:00]
Sean Hayes
Before, and I know that they are.
- [23:02]
Jason Bateman
You know, deservedly aggrieved and whatnot, but.
- [23:04]
Sean Hayes
There'S another way to do it.
- [23:06]
Jason Bateman
There's somebody else in the Republican Party.
- [23:08]
Sean Hayes
That can look after your issues.
- [23:09]
Jason Bateman
If it makes you sick to vote for a Democrat, great. Vote for Republican. Tons of my friends are Republican.
- [23:15]
Sean Hayes
Like, I have no issues with Republicans. It's this extra step that I think is so unnecessary to follow blindly.
- [23:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, I started out covering the Trump voters because from our end, we kind of missed them. And I covered people who'd voted for Obama at least once or twice or Clinton and then voted for Trump. It's everything we've been talking about. They either don't believe the bad things, they think Democrats are worse. They found something they really didn't like about Biden. And then Harris.
- [23:46]
Jason Bateman
I was at some fancy Hollywood thingy.
- [23:48]
Nicole Wallace
And Tom Emmanuel was a fancy Hollywood thing.
- [23:51]
Jason Bateman
It's boring, as you can Imagine.
- [23:52]
Nicole Wallace
No, this is boring. Tell me about, Tell me a fancy Hollywood story.
- [23:56]
Jason Bateman
Well, but only to bring it back to politics, which is that Rahm Emanuel was there and as was Ari. And I said to Ari, I said, I hear that Rahm is going to run. And Ari gave, you know, beautifully kind of non committal, kind of grin or whatever. But it's now since become more public that Rahm might be one of the people to run. And I got really excited about that because like yourself, he's been uniquely accessed to, you know, these places of this access in there and the knowledge and being chief of staff and what, ambassador to Japan and mayor and whatnot. And so anyway, I think he'd be a really exciting candidate.
- [24:32]
Sean Hayes
But then I said to somebody and.
- [24:33]
Jason Bateman
Somebody said, oh no, he'll never win.
- [24:34]
Sean Hayes
He's Jewish. And like, I'm a guy who lives in Las Vegas.
- [24:37]
Nicole Wallace
Trump's a felon, we have to stop that.
- [24:40]
Sean Hayes
But then I started thinking, and Pete.
- [24:43]
Jason Bateman
Buttigieg can't win because he's gay.
- [24:44]
Sean Hayes
And I started thinking, well, am I just in such an LA bubble that I just can't imagine that that would be a barrier to somebody voting for someone or that somebody is black or.
- [24:56]
Jason Bateman
That somebody is a woman.
- [24:58]
Sean Hayes
And then I started thinking, and I'm.
- [25:00]
Jason Bateman
Going to ask you, to the extent you're comfortable answering it, it, if you're an independent voter or somebody that's kind of on the border between voting Republican or Democrat, is gay, black, Jewish or female, has the best chance of being the next non white, middle aged male president. Where do you think the tolerance is?
- [25:24]
Nicole Wallace
Well, so I think you go to the battleground states, right? And in Pennsylvania, Shapiro won, I think he won like a huge margin. Huge margin. So those are the same people you have to win over.
- [25:35]
Sean Hayes
Right?
- [25:35]
Nicole Wallace
Right, right. And he's very comfortable with his faith, talks about it all the time. I think you go to Michigan, huge, huge crossover of Trump voters and Whitmer voters. I mean, there's a woman. I mean, you gotta go study the battleground states where women. I mean, in Michigan, I think women hold all those top statewide offices. Jocelyn Benson's the Secretary of State. There's a female attorney General. I mean, you gotta go look.
- [25:59]
Jason Bateman
I mean, and Obama's already been president twice, so.
- [26:01]
Nicole Wallace
And Obama's been president twice, so you gotta go look behind the tabs. I worry a lot that the Democratic Party will take all the wrong lessons from Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris defeats. Because I think, you know, Whitmer's a great example. I think Nikki Haley was really a threat to Donald Trump and she was the second highest vote getter. I don't think that's the barrier and I don't think that was Harris's barrier. I hope not. Because you look at, in the battleground states that pick presidents, they're open to all sorts of politicians.
- [26:34]
Jason Bateman
Well, it was economy really is what the sort of the.
- [26:37]
Nicole Wallace
That's what they say.
- [26:38]
Jason Bateman
But now look at it. So, you know, we'll see if that was true.
- [26:41]
Nicole Wallace
We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. Okay, wait, I gotta hear more about the fancy Hollywood stuff. I'll tell you. In our world, everyone's talking about good night and good luck. I know you just saw it.
- [26:50]
Jason Bateman
I just saw it. Yeah.
- [26:50]
Nicole Wallace
And then Clooney's story of sort of coming out and writing about Biden is everywhere in politics because Jake Tapper is just so. You know, you talk about how it's hard to not jump the shark in writers rooms. It seems like some of those moments from history are maybe the way to get at this moment better than anything.
- [27:10]
Jason Bateman
Well, and that's one of the reasons that, yeah, his play is so timely and important, no matter what side you're on. I recommend anyone who's in New York to go see it. And what he and Grant Hesloff have done with adapting the film and contemporizing it is there's a piece at the end, and I won't ruin it for folks, but there's a bit of a. A status report, per se, of where we're at, where we've come from and where we currently are from McCarthyism to, you know, today. And it just lands the plane in such a heartbreaking slap in the face of, you know, you just, you, you literally, you see it and it's upsetting.
- [27:50]
Sean Hayes
That you sort of.
- [27:52]
Jason Bateman
My takeaway, at least as I was, you know, drawing my tears, that it's been a bit of a frog boil.
- [27:58]
Sean Hayes
As much as we are aware of that, of the heat, it really sneak up on us and. And it's not coming, it's here. We're in it.
- [28:07]
Nicole Wallace
Yes.
- [28:08]
Sean Hayes
And like all the way up to and including. They're coming for you. Like, they're literally knocking on people's doors today and pulling them out and shipping them off and not just into their home country and get out of here. We don't want to see you into.
- [28:24]
Jason Bateman
A maximum security horror den.
- [28:29]
Sean Hayes
And so.
- [28:29]
Jason Bateman
So what do we do about that?
- [28:34]
Sean Hayes
It's really heartbreaking.
- [28:35]
Jason Bateman
I refuse to believe that even though the folks on the other side are numb to it. They deeply care about this country, just like we do. We all love the flag, we all love the military.
- [28:48]
Sean Hayes
We all care about the health of the country. And I'm just heartbroken that somehow they.
- [28:53]
Jason Bateman
Found a way to shield their eyes and their ears from the current status and that they could be so helpful to fixing that. It doesn't take a lot of them, just a few of them, to kind.
- [29:05]
Sean Hayes
Of say, you know what? My bad.
- [29:08]
Jason Bateman
I'll make a better choice next time.
- [29:10]
Sean Hayes
And you don't even need to admit it. I mean, that's why there's a little.
- [29:13]
Jason Bateman
Curtain you can close behind you when.
- [29:14]
Sean Hayes
You go in the booth, you know.
- [29:16]
Jason Bateman
And so, I don't know, it was a great show. And I think he's done a lot for giving voice to a bunch of people like myself that no one really wants to hear from. It's like, okay, Hollywood elite, you know, tell us how you feel about America, but we don't care about the country any less. And if you can use that uniqueness to speak a little bit clearer, louder to a larger number of people, he's doing that. And this play is an example of that.
- [29:43]
Nicole Wallace
I think Trump is aware of how powerful it is, and I think that's why he's so obsessed.
- [29:48]
Jason Bateman
Oh, Trump is uniquely aware of what George is doing. And it's correct. It's a problem. Problem.
- [29:54]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, correct. And I think his attacks on Bruce Springsteen for what he said in Manchester at the end of his concert, his attacking Beyonce, I mean, I actually think.
- [30:04]
Jason Bateman
Well, and that was a chilling thing like that. Is that not a precursor for a complete irs? I mean, he's kind of created the predicate for the IRS going all the way into Beyonce's finances, Springsteen's finances. There's nothing there. But he set up the predicate for it, and now he's just going to make their life, Financial life miserable and force them to spend a bunch of money to defend themselves.
- [30:29]
Nicole Wallace
But the reason he. I mean, and this is where I think. This is where I think so much of what they do is designed to chill. Right. They want you to both believe that no one wants to hear from Hollywood elites when Trump is deeply interested in Hollywood elites. And two, they want to make the barrier of entry so high so that it's just not worth it to speak out. And I think that he is acutely aware of how people with large platforms who don't like what he's doing do represent a threat to his political support.
- [30:58]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, but the problem is that somehow those people are still kind of inoculated from that information, those voices, those facts. I don't know how they do it. I mean, it is by choice. They are by choice keeping themselves insulated from those facts or when they do hear them, they are using their intelligence to discount it and somehow feel more intelligent to imagine that there's actually a conspiracy and that there's a deep state and that somehow that's a more complicated thought. And so that makes them feel smarter.
- [31:35]
Sean Hayes
It's like, I mean, there's not some.
- [31:38]
Jason Bateman
Big effort to dupe America into thinking that Donald Trump is a bad guy, you know.
- [31:45]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I think what's amazing is too, is his family is sort of our original sources. Like the most that most journalists have is the books written by his niece and nephew, Mary and Fred Trump. So to the degree that I know anything about his childhood, it's from reading about them. And to your point, there's so much, you know, original source material. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Jason Bateman. Stay right here.
- [32:19]
Jason Bateman
Want to pull off the season's freshest trends? You just need the right shoes. That's where designer shoe warehouse comes in. Loving wide leg jeans. Pair them with sleek low profile sneakers. Obsessed with the sheer trend. Try it with mesh flats, peeling bow home comfy sandals. Nail the whole free spirited thing. Find on trend shoes from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at DSW.
- [32:50]
BetterHelp
This is an ad by BetterHelp. June is Men's Mental Health Month and every year 6 million men suffer from depression. If you're feeling overwhelmed, the strongest thing you can do is ask for help. And BetterHelp makes it easy. Take a short online quiz and connect from home with a qualified therapist. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.
- [33:16]
Jen Psaki
H-E-L-P.com introducing the weeknight on MSNBC, join hosts Alicia Menendez, Michael Steele and Simone Sanders Townsend for a spirited conversation challenging each other and our leaders about the biggest issues of the day.
- [33:33]
Jason Bateman
It's about knowing what you are for.
- [33:35]
Nicole Wallace
Who you are for.
- [33:36]
Jason Bateman
That's what politics is about, is engagement.
- [33:39]
BetterHelp
We are going to dive deeper into the legal side of today's breaking news.
- [33:43]
Jen Psaki
The weeknight, Monday through Friday at 7pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [33:53]
Nicole Wallace
You know, I feel like, like the power of the Murrow story and the facts all being out there is that I mean, I always view our show as like a sports bar, right? Like they have to be Open every day. They have to have, like, the good turkey burger and like the nice fish tacos. It has to be for. Has to be good.
- [34:12]
Jason Bateman
Is Heilman the turkey burger?
- [34:15]
Nicole Wallace
But like, people. But like, it has to be open every day. And, like, we're not Broadway, right? Like, I do not put on goodnight and good luck. We are not Clooney, right? We're not smart loves. Right. We will not make you laugh. But like, we're there every day and when people are ready, you know, when the price of everything is so high that people are like, man, how'd we get here? And how do we get out of here? Like, we're just gonna be there every day. And so to me, it's like, how do you keep the doors open and keep it straight enough? And then that's why we have all these economists on. Like, how do you keep it inviting enough so that when people are ready to come, we're open and we're friendly and like, we have a good meal. If you, you know, haven't eaten yet, you know, the game's on. And it's like, keep it open, keep it friendly, and keep it real so that when people are ready, you're there.
- [34:58]
Jason Bateman
And your group, as you put it, your favorite friends and reporters or what the phrase is.
- [35:02]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, my favorite reporters and friends.
- [35:03]
Jason Bateman
Yeah. It's a great, great group. So congrats to you and to your team, your staff and whatever you're doing. You have a great mix of studies that, you know, that are in there, Heilman included and McCaskill and the group. I mean, it's just. It's a. And throughout. Throughout all the shows on msnbc.
- [35:21]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you.
- [35:22]
Jason Bateman
I love it. And I know you guys are probably all going through a weird time. I hope that morale is as high as it deserves to be over. And you guys keep doing what you're doing.
- [35:31]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you. You keep doing everything that you're doing.
- [35:34]
Jason Bateman
Thanks.
- [35:34]
Nicole Wallace
We love all of it. I know you're getting all your. All the buzz. Can you tell us anything about Black Rabbit?
- [35:41]
Jason Bateman
Oh, I can, sure.
- [35:45]
Sean Hayes
That is a limited series that I.
- [35:47]
Jason Bateman
Have coming out on Netflix in September.
- [35:52]
Sean Hayes
It's an eight episode show.
- [35:54]
Jason Bateman
Jude Law and I play brothers that run a night spot in the Lower east side. And the first episode is a break in at this place and a couple people get shot and they steal a bunch of jewelry. And then you flashback six months and you spend a few episodes catching up to that moment and then you reveal who did it. And then the last two episodes are kind of the fallout from that. But it's really, really well done if I do say so. Just because there's so many great people involved with this thing and I'm super proud of it. I think it's the best thing I've ever done and I, I'm just really excited for it to come out. Really, really excited.
- [36:31]
Nicole Wallace
And Laura Linney's involved. Everyone loves you and Laura Linney from Ozark.
- [36:34]
Jason Bateman
I brought her in to direct a couple episodes. Yeah, yeah, well, she did.
- [36:38]
Sean Hayes
I finally talked her into doing one.
- [36:39]
Jason Bateman
On Ozark and it was one of our best episodes ever. It was the first time she'd ever directed.
- [36:43]
Nicole Wallace
Which one did she episode?
- [36:45]
Jason Bateman
I forget what it was called, but we get in like this sort of this traffic jam at the end and I just storm out of the car and I walk all huffy towards camera. If people remember that, we get into this big huge fight. But she direct, directed two of these in Black Rabbit and was just fantastic. And she could have very easily said no, especially once she had done one and she knew how much work it was, but she didn't. She leaned into it and she said, yeah, I'd love to, it's just a few blocks from my house and let's go to it. And the episodes are incredible. She was awesome.
- [37:20]
Nicole Wallace
I can't wait to see it. I went back and watched the first Ozark because I remember everything there but I couldn't like in my brain I was like, I don't remember how they got there. So I watched the first one.
- [37:31]
Sean Hayes
Oh wow.
- [37:32]
Nicole Wallace
And I forgot the drop. And I like screamed out loud.
- [37:36]
Jason Bateman
The death from that. The guy that falls off the building.
- [37:40]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, the lover. And I watched the whole thing and I don't know if I blocked it out. I don't know, maybe there's something about how dark it is and like a scene like in the back of my brain I'm always like, where would I go? And so I had a whole like really going like from Chicago. Like, like that part of it really like spoke to me in a different way. Watching it again.
- [38:00]
Jason Bateman
There's a, there's a. So yeah, so that there's a body that, that falls from the 40th floor and hits the pyramid.
- [38:07]
Nicole Wallace
And like it falls.
- [38:08]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, well, and I, and I wanted to, I wanted to have a, a dummy do that. I didn't want that to be computer generated. So we dropped a, a a like a 200 pound dummy from about 300ft. But we had to put it on cables in. Cause I was standing pretty close to the landing spot. But then in post production, the amount of time I spent trying to try to get the sound right of what a body would sound, I mean, it was a very bleak, dark. Some of the stuff we have to go through to get the authenticity just right. But it was. And then in Black Rabbit, kind of semi spoiler, there is a body that falls at one point in one of the episodes. And I'm working with the same sound crew, the same mix team, and so we grabbed that file from the first episode of Ozark, and so his body drops from not quite as high. So we had to adjust the sound a little bit. But, you know, getting that sound just right is dark work, but it's fun.
- [39:11]
Nicole Wallace
Well, it's so good. And because he's sleeping with your wife, like, the reaction isn't horror. It's like. It's just.
- [39:20]
Jason Bateman
Oh, right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:24]
Nicole Wallace
It's so good. And I wonder too, are you totally free from the real world when you're in those moments when you're directing or acting?
- [39:34]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Totally different part of the brain. And I truly, truly love doing what I do, the directing a little bit more than the acting, just because, you know, you're kind of in charge of what people are hearing and seeing and thinking, hopefully. Whereas with the acting, you're just kind of responsible for your one character. And I don't mean to imply that people that are actors are doing easy work and directors doing hard work. It's just. It's many more levers that. That you're obligated to. To know about and prepare for, but also have the privilege to participate in. And so I love it just because it's. It's. It's harder and it's. It kind of calls on all the things that I've kind of been trying to absorb since I started when I was a little kid.
- [40:21]
Nicole Wallace
And I know even though all of your co anchors, you guys give each other so much shit, it's clear that your sort of longevity as an actor also fuels all the respect you garner as a director. I mean, it feels like it's very hard for you guys to give each other any compliments. But even, like a person that doesn't know any of you can feel that come through and attach to you what.
- [40:46]
Jason Bateman
That there is a begrudging sort of respect for one another.
- [40:48]
Nicole Wallace
Respect that it is clear that, like, because you have, you know, played such iconic roles, I mean, my son knows arrested development. He's 13. Like, there's no reason for him, you Know, like, it's like the things you've done have different lives. Yeah, but do you think that coming to directing, I mean, you've always directed and acted, but does that, does that make it something that is a faster line to having actors respect you, that you feel their pain?
- [41:17]
Sean Hayes
Perhaps.
- [41:18]
Jason Bateman
I mean, maybe at a minimum they can assume that the direction from the director is going to be a little bit more actor friendly. Because it is a difficult thing to try to figure out how to speak actor when somebody is doing a scene where they're having to maybe play the emotion of jealousy.
- [41:38]
Sean Hayes
And it's coming across more as paranoia.
- [41:43]
Jason Bateman
As opposed to jealousy. So what word would you say to an actor to get that performance? Like it's, you know, because we're all crazy, you know, I mean, I'm nuts. You know, we're pretending to be other people. It's a weird thing. So it is nice for crazy to talk to crazy. But you're right, me and Will and Sean, we do give each other a lot of shit, but there is a deep amount of respect for one another. You know, Will just did this really, really cool, tough, dramatic and comedic movie that he really, that Bradley Cooper just directed, who's an incredible director. Talk about an actor director. I mean, he's, I think, one of our finest directors. And so he just directed that. And so Will's got that coming out. Like, you know, I don't want to jinx anything, but like it was a good shot. Like there's going to be like nominations for that film. So Will's got all the respect in the world I could give. And Sean, you know, when he did Goodnight Oscar, which was a play on Broadway last year that he won a Tony for, when Will and I went and saw that, you know, Sean's a.
- [42:46]
Sean Hayes
Classically trained pianist and we'd never really.
- [42:49]
Jason Bateman
Seen him play piano. And he plays Rhapsody in Blue at the end of that thing for 10 minutes by himself in the middle of the stage on this grand piano.
- [42:58]
Sean Hayes
And then the curtain comes down and.
- [43:00]
Jason Bateman
Will and I are crying. I looked at Will, I said, well, he's just ruined the podcast because now we can't make fun of him anymore. We got too much respect for him. It was really, really amazing.
- [43:09]
Sean Hayes
So.
- [43:10]
Jason Bateman
So they're really special guys and they're very, very good at what they do. But you wouldn't know that because they like to play dumb a lot. And I hope if we do anything well that we're just kind of just playing grab ass and trying to get on with it and ask some decent questions as the sort of common folks that we are.
- [43:31]
Nicole Wallace
You know, I mean, what you guys model in terms of friendship and connection, as busy as you all are, as successful as you all are, is really. I love that.
- [43:40]
Sean Hayes
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Jason Bateman
I mean, it's certainly not unique. We all have really close friends. We're fortunate that we get to do it in front of a microphone and bring on people that, as I said earlier, wouldn't normally get a chance to talk to. And the fact that that's also interesting to the people that listen to us is just really fortunate. So we get to keep doing it, hopefully. You know, I love it.
- [44:02]
Nicole Wallace
I hope you guys do it for a very long time.
- [44:04]
Jason Bateman
Yeah, me too, too.
- [44:04]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you so much for doing this.
- [44:06]
Jason Bateman
Thank you for having me. It truly is a pleasure to meet you and hope to do so in person someday.
- [44:11]
Nicole Wallace
It's such a privilege. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- [44:15]
Jason Bateman
All right. Thanks, Nicole.
- [44:16]
Nicole Wallace
Have a good night.
- [44:17]
Jason Bateman
Bye.
- [44:23]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you so much for listening to the Best People. Be sure to subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcast again. Get this and other MSNBC podcasts ad free as a subscriber, you'll also get exclusive bonus content that we're excited to share with you later in this series. The Best People is produced by Vicki Vergelina and senior producer Lisa Ferry, with additional support from Max Jacobs and Ann Gimble. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katie Lau, and Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production. Pat Berkey is our senior executive producer of Deadline White House. Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNBC Audio. Remember to search for the Best People with Nicole Wallace wherever you get your podcasts and follow the whole series.
- [45:17]
Kristen Welker
This week only on Meet the Press. As the Trump administration rolls out its legislative agenda and new concerns are rising over the future of the economy, Kristen Welker sits down with Speaker Mike Johnson and Senator Rafael Warnock this week only on Meet the Press. Listen to the full episode now. Wherever you get your podcasts.