Jeff Daniels on the Enemy Within

Summary

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace: Jeff Daniels on the Enemy Within

In the July 21, 2025, episode of "The Best People with Nicolle Wallace", host Nicolle Wallace sits down with acclaimed actor and musician Jeff Daniels to delve into his illustrious career, personal choices, and poignant views on the current socio-political landscape.

Introduction to Jeff Daniels

The episode opens with Nicolle Wallace introducing Jeff Daniels as one of her favorite friends and a stalwart figure in the midst of America's political turbulence. Daniels, known for his magnetic presence both on stage and screen, shares his unique decision to raise his family in Michigan instead of the traditional hubs of Hollywood or Los Angeles, highlighting his grounded nature despite his fame.

A Decade of Versatility and Creativity

Jeff Daniels discusses his ongoing commitment to challenging himself creatively. Reflecting on his transition from acting to performing live music, Daniels remarks:

“I never want to stick to the same thing. And I think that's why the guitar happened.”
[02:27]

He emphasizes the importance of maintaining control over his creative output, serving as his own director, writer, and editor during his performances. This creative autonomy allows him to stay engaged and continuously evolve as an artist.

Pivotal Moments: From Audition to Success

Daniels recounts the serendipitous moment that propelled his career forward. During an audition for the lead in Tennessee Williams' "Summer and Smoke," directed by Marshall W. Mason, Daniels was initially prepared to leave after his performance but was persuaded to stay. This pivotal decision led him to move to New York, marking the beginning of his successful acting journey.

“And Marshall said, you should probably come to New York. And no promises, but you should come to New York. You're good enough to try.”
[05:47]

Iconic Roles and Their Impact

The conversation shifts to Daniels' most memorable roles, including his portrayal of Atticus Finch in the Broadway adaptation of "To Kill a Mockingbird." Daniels describes the transformative experience of addressing the audience directly, symbolizing his character's moral stance and the profound impact it had on him:

“He was hard, I looked like him, sort of, but I was still me. It works, but you doubt it.”
[07:45]

Another significant role discussed is his part in "Dumb and Dumber," a performance that showcased his comedic range and resonated across diverse audiences, including younger generations.

“There's this universal hook. And I'm glad, you know, we knew when we put it out that 12 year old boys, 13 year old boys would think of it as their Citizen Kane.”
[13:02]

Embracing a Broad Acting Range

Daniels highlights his deliberate effort to diversify his roles, aiming to avoid typecasting by embracing both comedic and dramatic characters. This strategy not only broadens his acting repertoire but also aligns with his values of creativity and authenticity.

“Part of my plan was to create as wide a range as possible. I wanted Dumb and Dumber on one end and Atticus Finch on the other.”
[15:12]

Reflections on Moving to Michigan

Choosing to live in Michigan, Daniels shares how this decision has influenced his perspective and career. The move has allowed him to remain connected to his roots while fostering a creative environment away from the typical entertainment capitals.

“Living in Michigan is like being in Siberia. It allowed me to keep the fun in making movies.”
[09:49]

Navigating Political Turbulence

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the current state of American politics. Daniels expresses concern over the erosion of decency and civility, drawing contrasts between the bipartisan respect demonstrated by former leaders like Reagan and the divisive nature of contemporary politics under figures like Donald Trump.

“We've lost decency, we've lost civility, we've lost respect for the rule of law.”
[25:50]

He reflects on the transformation of the Republican Party, lamenting its shift towards policies and rhetoric that undermine national unity and moral integrity.

“In Trump's world, he is God. And that's not what the founding fathers sat around the table and came up with.”
[33:45]

Hope and the Power of Art

Despite the grim political climate, Daniels maintains a sense of hope, believing in the enduring power of art and storytelling to inspire positive change. He underscores the importance of individual actions in fostering decency and compassion within society.

“You just gotta find the flower that comes up through the cracks of the sidewalk or something.”
[42:09]

Musical Interlude: A Song of Hope

Towards the end of the episode, Jeff Daniels showcases his musical talent by performing an original song that intertwines humor with heartfelt optimism. The lyrics reflect his desire for a world filled with love, compassion, and mutual respect—elements he finds lacking in today's societal interactions.

[38:05]
"The only thing you want is the only thing you need. Where miracles happen and dreams come true. Where a man like me can love a woman like you."

Final Thoughts

As the conversation draws to a close, Daniels emphasizes the critical role individuals play in shaping the nation's future. He advocates for electing leaders who embody moral strength and integrity, believing that such choices can reverse the negative trends affecting American democracy.

“If you don't like the way that's going on, you get rid of them. But it's got to be you.”
[35:35]

Daniels wraps up with a lighthearted metaphor about aging, illustrating his resilient yet reflective outlook on life.

“You're going down the interstate driving 90, and you hit the speed bump and you go airborne and you just hope there are angels on the other end of wherever it is you land.”
[43:32]

Conclusion

This episode of "The Best People with Nicolle Wallace" offers a profound exploration of Jeff Daniels' multifaceted life and career. From his dedicated craft to his thoughtful critique of contemporary politics, Daniels provides listeners with insightful reflections and a stirring message of hope through both conversation and music.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeff Daniels: “I never want to stick to the same thing. And I think that's why the guitar happened.”
  [02:27]

• Jeff Daniels: “We've lost decency, we've lost civility, we've lost respect for the rule of law.”
  [25:50]

• Jeff Daniels: “Where miracles happen and dreams come true. Where a man like me can love a woman like you.”
  [38:16]

• Jeff Daniels: “You just gotta find the flower that comes up through the cracks of the sidewalk or something.”
  [42:09]

This engaging and rich discussion not only highlights Jeff Daniels' contributions to the arts but also underscores the urgent need for moral leadership and personal responsibility in today's divided America.

Transcript

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[Jeff Daniels]

Not all meals are created equal.

[Nicole Wallace]

For instance, breakfast has the spicy egg McMuffin for a limited time and lunch doesn't.

[Jeff Daniels]

McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Nicole Wallace]

What was the most out of body role for you?

[Jeff Daniels]

Dumb and dumber. I didn't know how to do it. You know, I didn't know how to be that dumb.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hi everyone, it's Nicole Wallace. Welcome to the Best People. This week I talked to one of my favorite friends who lives in the middle of the country, someone I email all the time at the most heated moments in our politics this say, how's it playing in Michigan? He decided to raise his family there instead of ever moving to Hollywood or Los Angeles, even though he is one of the most iconic actors of our time, playing some of the funniest men on the big screen and some of the most moral men on stage and on the small and big screen. But that's not all. He also played us his guitar in this episode. This is the Best People with Nicole Wallace. And this is Jeff Daniels. Don't laugh.

[Jeff Daniels]

Just try not to hit an iceberg on our way.

[Nicole Wallace]

Icebergs are everywhere.

[Jeff Daniels]

Thanks for having me.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thanks for being here. So I got to listen to you create something that I hadn't heard from you before. I'd seen you play on Kelly Clarkson and on the Internet. But I got to listen to you perform a whole set and your whole thing made more sense to me after that. Like you make more sense to me now. I made you laugh. Wow.

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah, that's a good way to put it because I'm known for one thing, being an actor. But to walk out on a stage in front of say 160 people or a club with just an acoustic guitar and your stories leading into the song. Story leading into the song and you gotta hold em, that's hard. And I get to be creatively. I'm 100% in control. I'm the director, I'm the writer, I'm the editor. I'm everything and nobody to blame except me. But, you know, it's a great challenge, too. And that's kind of where I am now, you know, is. Is challenging myself. After decades of doing this, I never want to stick to the same thing. And I think that's why the guitar happened. And. And the fact that I can entertain people and hold them for 100 minutes is. That's the success every time I do it.

[Nicole Wallace]

What it's called the Best People podcast. What's the best plot twist in your life?

[Jeff Daniels]

Best plot twist was auditioning on a whim at another college just to see how I'd stack up against kids from around the state. And then I'm going to skip the callbacks and go to the hockey game and get drunk with my college roommates. That's Saturday night. That's my Saturday in 1976. Spring. That's all I'm gonna do. So I go down to this other college. I auditioned, doing a monologue I had done four months earlier at the play at the college I was at. Boom, there it is. Thanks so much. Buddies are outside. Great. I leave. I'm going. And a seventh year senior. Great, great guy. Where are you going? You know, I'm going. I got. We're going to hockey game. Callbacks are any minute. I know, I know. And he said, you might want to stick around. And so I did, and I got called back. And I'm going to read for lead in Summer and Smoke, the Tennessee Williams play who's directed by somebody I've never heard of. And I go, I want to just. I want to take off. And he's going, you idiot, you. The guest director of Summer Smoke is a guy named Marshall W. Mason. He's the artistic director of Circle Repertory Company in New York. Basically, he's out here at Eastern Michigan University picking up a check to direct some college kids from his old buddy who he went to college with at Northwestern, who has now asked him, come on out, make some money. Great, he's done that. You might want to stick around for that one. And so I waited, and I was the last one to get called back. And Marshall brought me up, sat me in a chair, had a girl named Debbie. It was the two of us. He sat us in chairs just like this and said, do the scene. Oh, okay. Just do the scene. Great, Good. We're done. Thank you. I got it.

[Nicole Wallace]

And that was that.

[Jeff Daniels]

And Marshall said, you should probably come to New York. And no promises, but you should come to New York. You're good enough to try and so I quit school, came to New York that fall and never looked back.

[Nicole Wallace]

Is it that serendipitous? I mean, Aaron Sorkin says you're simply one of the best actors he's ever worked with. I mean, is it both? Is it the talent and the twist?

[Jeff Daniels]

I think that's part of moving to Michigan, was I didn't want to lose whatever it was that happened when I became Fagan and Oliver or Harold Hill or Tevy and Fiddler on the Roof. For God's sake, where is that coming from? Who is. I don't want to spoil that. And I thought moving to Hollywood would spoil that. And so I'm just riding that same well of creativity and imagination that I had way back when. But I didn't have any training or technique or knew how to bring it up whenever I needed to bring it up. And I think the magic of it all, where you're in the take in the middle of, you know, doing Reagan, and you can feel him, and now you're riding it, you know, that's why Aaron was this so good. And the great writers are all like this. You're just riding their words, you know, their secretariat. You're just the jockey, you know, on top. But then you got to know what to do with it, and then you get out of the way. The greatest country in the world speech that I did, a newsroom was full of just. It's like it has wings. You feel yourself go, and you're just. You're him and you're riding, and it's all there. And because you prepped, you're prepared. And then cut.

[Nicole Wallace]

Is that the best feeling?

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

Anything better?

[Jeff Daniels]

The best feeling ever was Atticus Finch. And this is when I knew I'd made it. I was done. I didn't need to chase anymore. And the closing argument in To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, Harper Lee, Aaron Sorkin and the whole play on stage, talking to characters. But halfway through that closing argument, I walk down to Tom Robinson and the injustice that is about to happen to this innocent man. I turn for the first time to the audience, and I treat the audience like it's the jury. And it's so startling because we had others. Celia and others were talking to the audience, kind of narrating along the way. But I never. Atticus never did that until then. And when I did, and I treated the 1400 people sitting in the Shubert Theater like they were the 12 white jurors and shamed them. Pin drop every time. Eight times a week for a year, every single show. I'll never have that again. But I had it then.

[Nicole Wallace]

I was there. It's incredible.

[Jeff Daniels]

It was, you know, And I came out of that show going, no, I made it. That's when I knew, at least in my world, 45 or whatever years later, of doing it, like, going, psst, you made it. You got there. Now it's just fun.

[Nicole Wallace]

I think the reason you've become someone I turn to, and I'm trying to understand what the hell's going on in the country is that that connection extends to the country. Right. And to your neighbors and to the middle of the country. How much has the creative and the location and where you decided to sort of plant your flag, connect.

[Jeff Daniels]

Moving to Michigan in 1986, after about four or five movies was not what you were supposed to do. And it allowed me that when I did come into New York or LA to do something, it brought back the wonder I was making movies. It's kept the fun of it. I got asked by a younger actor recently, he goes, do you still like it? And I said, I love between action and cut. Because that's. If you do it right, you lose yourself, you become that person. You become Will McAvoy or something. And then they say, cut. And then they say, jeff, you good. And you have no memory of what you just did. It's that out of body, that's what you're shooting for. Yeah. Doesn't always happen because you're, you know, there are lines and staging and all this stuff. The technical, the mechanical part is always, you know, going, but you want to shut him up. So you can just kind of go. And they say cut. And you go, oh, okay. That's. That's where the fun is.

[Nicole Wallace]

What was the most out of body role for you?

[Jeff Daniels]

Dumb and dumber. I didn't know how to do it, you know, I didn't know how to be that dumb. I didn't. And I. And I remember I got it, and I had done the screen test with Jim. Jim came in. There were a few of us that were in the finals. And so I came in. I remember Jim just kind of started a scene and he kind of screwed his hair up. And so I go, I gotta match that. So I just did, you know, and then we were kind of bouncing off each other, and. And then we got into Colorado to shoot, and I. I was. It wasn't going well. We were reading stuff. It wasn't going well. And you could tell. And Then I said, I know what it is. And they're going, what? Please. He has an IQ of 8, not 7, not 9, 8. And that made perfect sense to me. And then I became the puppy on the leash. Jim would lead. Harry. What? You know, just have a half second delay now you got that? You got that. You're. You just see the word eight and there's a vacancy that happens. And then they'd say cut and you'd get your brain back.

[Nicole Wallace]

Dumb and Dumber is you asked? No, no, no. Well, so my son is gloriously uninterested in everything that I do. Thank God. But when I told him I was talking to you today, he sort of looked at his schedule at school and he said, I can't miss school. But that's cool. For Dumb and Dumber to mean something to a 13 year old, with all the competition that teens have from screens and phones is about sort of the transcendent nature of Dumb and Dumber. Right. Why do those guys still just nail it with all audiences?

[Jeff Daniels]

You hope that especially with a comedy which can. There is a shelf life on most of them. The fact that we were lasting like a Pink Panther, Peter Sellers, Preston Sturgis movies last at least for me. It becomes this kind of everybody does something stupid at some point. So that's the kind of universal hook. And I'm glad, you know, we knew when we put it out that 12 year old boys, 13 year old boys would think of it as their Citizen Kane. We knew, we were aware of that.

[Nicole Wallace]

That was the contribution.

[Jeff Daniels]

We weren't prepared for the demo that went from 8 to 80.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is it to have that role among your iconic roles, standing next to Atticus Finch.

[Jeff Daniels]

Part of my plan was to create as wide a range as possible. I knew if I lived out of LA or New York, living in Michigan is. You might as well be in Siberia. And so I had to create a range and I knew I could be funny and I wasn't going down that road. So I really wanted Dumb and Dumber got it. So Dumb and Dumber is way over here. But then you put Atticus Finch or Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Now there's this wide gap that has nothing to do with creating a brand. Where you are at 35, you hit, you're an action star or you're a romantic lead or whatever you are, and that is who you play the next eight movies. Movies until you get older. And then it's. You have to decide whether you get the plastic surgery or not. And then if you do get the plastic surgery. You try to pretend that Even though you're 62, you're really 35. But everyone can look on their phone and go, you're not 35, you know. So I always wanted that range. And Clint said I did a movie with Clint Eastwood and he said there was a drama I did called Two Days in the Valley. He said, if you can do Two Days in the Valley and you can do Dumb and Dumber, you can do this.

[Podcast Host]

We're gonna sneak in a quick break, then we'll have much more with my friend, iconic actor Jeff Daniels. We'll be back in a moment.

[Nicole Wallace]

When work gets crazy, I like to.

[Jeff Daniels]

Stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones.

[Nicole Wallace]

I don't drink at all until 4 o'.

[Jeff Daniels]

Clock. We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.

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[Nicole Wallace]

What felt like the biggest reach at the time that you got it?

[Jeff Daniels]

I've always gone in to most, especially the last 10 years or so and I don't know how I'm going to do it. So I say yes. If I know how I read, I go, I know how to do this. I can do this on Monday. I know I'm going to be bored.

[Nicole Wallace]

And that's the enemy.

[Jeff Daniels]

That's the enemy. At this age, you know when you start, when you check out of the Ambition Hotel, you know, and you kind of go, okay, now I just want to do stuff that keeps me interested. I just shot a movie called Reykjavik. Hardest thing I've ever done, because I had to come up with a Ronald Reagan. It was the 1986 meeting between Reagan and Gorbachev. They met in Reykjavik, Iceland, in a little house to discuss lowering nuclear weapons. Because we were at a. It was a. As I researched it, it was like, oh, my God, were we close? And it was an incredible weekend, and I had to come up with a Reagan. And Michael Gunn is the writer, director, and he was. He actually was on the staff writing staff at Newsroom when we did Newsroom. Smart guy, great guy. Had a great script taken from transcripts of what they said to each other. And there's a story there, especially now, with Trump and Putin and what that relationship is. Reagan and Gorbachev was not that. It's what the Republican Party used to be, what they could be proud of. You know, it was. I mean, he says things in the Reykjavik movie that we got from the transcript. He tells Gorbachev we are a nation of immigrants, and he's. For that, I had to come up with a voice that was hard. I saw. Huh?

[Nicole Wallace]

Can I hear it?

[Jeff Daniels]

Well, there are trigger words, much like Harry Dunn had. The numeral eight, the word. Well, all I have to. Well, I'm right in here, and that's kind of all you need. And you. You know, I would study that. I was youtubing him for seven months before we shot. Trying to get the voice, trying to get the will, you know, and you get just enough of that, and then they put the hair on you and you look. I look like him, sort of, but I was still me. It's what Timothy Chalamet did in Complete Unknown. Ed Norton did it with Pete Seeger, and George Clooney is doing it on Broadway with Ed Murrow. And good night and good luck. There aren't any prosthetics. There's no chin and the nose and the thing. And you can't even see me. You could see Timothy, you could see Ed, you could see George. But Murrow, in George's case, was inside him. And that's the little magic trick with the camera. If you can still see me, but there's enough Reagan hair and the cock of the chin and the. Well, right in here, Nicole. And then suddenly you're pulling him in and he's in here somewhere. And then strangely, it works, but you doubt it. Every single day you're shooting because you feel so fake and false and you go, I can't. I just wish I could. Well, you're not him. Okay, so just suggest him. Hardest thing I've ever done.

[Nicole Wallace]

So you're playing Reagan as the campaign season, because I was emailing with you, how much is Reagan? Our distant past, now that Trump is the standard bearer of the Republican Party?

[Jeff Daniels]

Distant with a capital D. Yeah, I don't think we should be surprised. Maybe there are some Republicans who are becoming surprised about what's going on, how far he's going. But I've told you, I should go back to that 90 minute meeting that Trump had with Putin behind closed doors in Helsinki, kick the American translator out. It's just Putin, Trump and the Russian translator. What happened? What were we talking about? Curious. Because he came out of that room looking like a child that had been scolded and told to stand over there. And as someone who has spent his life observing people, that's what I do. Every human being has strengths and weaknesses, even the biggest moral heroes that you're playing. It's got to have weaknesses. Otherwise he's one dimensional. That's what makes us human. We're not perfect, but the collapse of the Republican Party, taking a knee. You know, I still think about Kamala and how I, I think she would have been a good choice. I don't care what they say, because she would have done what Lincoln did. Liz Cheney would have been Secretary of State.

[Nicole Wallace]

Team arrivals.

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah, team arrivals. Doris Kearns Goodwin wrote the book about it. That's what Lincoln did. Surrounded himself with the people who would disagree with him, not the people who would take a knee and go, yeah, more tariffs, sir, more. It's the madness of King George and just the deterioration of the Republican Party. I mean, look, I'm just an actor. What do I know? But when Mitch started stacking the courts 25 years ago, I said it on your show once. It's. They can see it coming. The new America that is diverse and treats everyone with equality and respect and dignity. You know, kind of like Jesus did. We're ready for that. And Mitch and company could see it coming. They were going to be the minority, and then here we are. And now you got it. And now you're losing money. I hope you're losing Tons of money. Those of you who thought this would be okay, my question is, what are you guys going to do about it?

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, Michigan voted for Trump this time again, I think. Right. I mean, the tariffs are going to hurt your neighbors. They're going to hurt.

[Jeff Daniels]

Which I think at the end of the day, that's what's going to do it. You just got to go, wait a minute. The grocery bill is what, 180 bucks more? I can't get that car that we have to have unless I pay another eight grand. What? Who do I blame for that? Who do I see about that? One person.

[Nicole Wallace]

And I feel like some of the conversations we've had over the last five, six years were about this tug, not between right and left, but between decency and maybe if it's about the cost of things, decency became a luxury. There's something about decency being the sort of collateral damage, the thing we lose over wanting cheaper eggs. Do you think it was ever really about cheaper eggs?

[Jeff Daniels]

Well, I think at the end of the day, it'll be about just the price of eggs. Did it go up or down? Because that's what he told me. He was going to lower the price of eggs or my grocery bill. I think that still matters, at least out in the middle of the country. That matters. The money matters.

[Nicole Wallace]

So Trump wins because things are too damn expensive. Right. We talked ahead of the election. I mean, I think a lot of people did feel so much economic anxiety that they swallowed the whole bag of Trump's warts and wounds and flaws. To have more economic relief maybe, is what they were looking for. I think there was this pull right between. I know that he doesn't have the character, if he were a lifelong Republican, of someone like Reagan or McCain, but there was this profound sense that things were getting out of reach. The price of college, the price of a home, all those things, if the character or the lack of character didn't hold them back. Do you think the economic collapse he's manufactured will make people in Michigan think twice about Trumpism?

[Jeff Daniels]

I think he's a snake oil salesman, and I think people will see that. I think one of the things that we've lost and this having played people like Atticus Finch and, yes, Jim Comey, he stood for some things. Even McAvoy in Newsroom certainly did.

[Nicole Wallace]

Is America the best nation? What's the monologue? How does it start? America is.

[Jeff Daniels]

We're not the greatest country in the world. And whatever I said, yeah, I can't remember it. I can't Remember it?

[Nicole Wallace]

But you memorized it, right?

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah, at one point. Yeah, it was in there. We've lost decency, we've lost civility, we've lost respect for the rule of law. Lost it. We have normalized verbal abuse on the Internet. We've normalized bullying. Much as the woke generation tried to change that. It's back and out the window goes character, integrity. I mean, nobody has great things to say about politicians. They never have. Go back to Mark Twain, but ideally we're supposed to elect the best of us, not the worst of us. He's everything that's wrong with not just America, but with being a human being. I just don't get the, the Christian right. And I've, I've read a lot of people who do and they explain it a lot better that, but it's beyond me. But I just. If Jesus came back, say 4 o' clock this afternoon and he booked an appearance on your show, what do you think he'd say about how things are going? That's what I want to propose to some of the people who are so, you know, hell bent on what Trump is and what he represents and how I love the President. I'm going, have you seen the litany of stuff that he's done to people? I just think we're better than that. And I wish the Republican Party could get back to being better than they are now. I don't know.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you think that people in Michigan, I mean, it's a super informed electorate with really, really, I don't want to say rising stars because they're already stars, but really high quality statewide elected officials in the Governor, Governor Whitmer, the Secretary of State, Mallory Benson. Mallory, running for Senate. Do you think that in November. Because Michigan's a perfect example. I mean, people chose, they chose all those women I just named and they chose Donald Trump. I mean, what was that about?

[Jeff Daniels]

I don't know, because I missed that. I thought Michigan would get swept up in the new America, that we were the generation that was gonna go, no, we're ready, all inclusive. No, it's going to be the best of all of us, not just some of us. I thought we were ready for that. I was as surprised as anyone. But I think it's going to, you know, I think they got to get hit. I think they got to get woken up because we, look, I mean, I grew up in a Republican House. We just didn't. I don't think I ever heard the word Republican until I was in my 20s. My dad was a small Businessman. My mom used to be on a farm. And you didn't talk about politics. Nobody did. Now it's on her phone. It's hitting us. It's Facebook. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You can't get away from it. And I think that's good. I think it's bad. And there wasn't such the divide. I'm. I'll go back to Reagan and that he could get in a room with Mikhail Gorbachev and hammer out something over three days. Just the two of them and George Schultz, but just the two of them. And Tip o' Neill and Obama and John Boehner were this far from a grand bargain. And somebody jerked Boehner's leash, and next thing you know, he's selling marijuana in Florida.

[Podcast Host]

He seems so happy.

[Jeff Daniels]

He seems happy. Well, he should be. But it's just. There used to be a time. Shelby Foote was a great writer, Civil War historian. He did the Ken Burns thing, and he says something to the effect that democracy is about compromise. It's about getting in the room and shutting the door and not coming out until you have a deal. That's it. That's the only rule. And Lincoln was fighting to get that back, certainly after the war ended. The Civil War. But that was. Shelby was talking about the Civil War and how that we couldn't compromise as what will be our defeat as a nation. You know, the other thing, too, with the Reagan, Gorbachev thing, once they. Reagan and Gorbachev had a deal and the Berlin Wall came down, which was an added bonus to what he was over there to do. Gorbachev, I think, told him, you don't have an enemy in me anymore. Your enemy now is going to be within.

[Podcast Host]

Next up, much more with my conversation with visionary actor and musician Jeff Daniels. Stick around.

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[Nicole Wallace]

What are we leaving this next generation? What is important about you playing Reagan right now?

[Podcast Host]

Why does that matter?

[Jeff Daniels]

I think it's because we can learn from our past that history does repeat itself if we're not careful. And I think in regards to Reagan, there was a way that we dealt with a country, certainly a leader of a country, who was hell bent on being at least our opponent and maybe eliminating us. In today's world. It just feels like Putin wants to infiltrate the United States and that Trump is like his puppet or something. And it just not what Reagan was with Gorbachev.

[Nicole Wallace]

He was strong.

[Jeff Daniels]

He was strong and he was in his way patriotic in a way that that word just gets thrown around and it's now it's taken on a political connotation. It was patriotic if you agree with what we're doing on the right.

[Nicole Wallace]

Right.

[Jeff Daniels]

And there was more of a universal thing. That's the thing that, that Reagan had, that Atticus Finch had. They had respect for things that were bigger than them. They respected the rule of law. Jim Comey. That was sacred to him. Atticus Finch, the rule of law, the right thing to do versus the wrong thing to do. These guys were moral giants, you know, Atticus in particular. And, and now there is nothing bigger than Trump.

[Nicole Wallace]

Looking in the mirror when I saw you in Mockingbird, you could hear a pin drop. People were and remain so hungry for what you just described. Stories of the moral man or woman prevailing. They are absent from our politics. Why do you think that they are thriving in film and failing in politics?

[Jeff Daniels]

Well, I think they're thriving in film because they're failing in politics. I think that will be one of the things I hope where the country as a whole starts to look and realize that he is Representing you. You may think you're different than him, but you're not. You're the bully. You're the asshole. That's how the world looks at us now. I mean, shooting in Iceland for the Reykjavik movie, I mean, the whole crew was from Europe, and they were peppering me with questions about the election that was coming up between Biden and Trump. You know, it's who we are.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah.

[Jeff Daniels]

I hate to tell you, but that's. You elect us who we chose. That's us. That's us. If you don't like the way that looks, if you don't like the way that's going on, you get rid of them. But it's got to be you. And I think it reflects on us poorly. And I think we're better than that. I think we're supposed to be better than that. I hope the day comes when we all decide that, you know, maybe having respect for things that are institutions that are bigger, as much like, you know, everyone has their God and all of that. It's the same thing. In Trump's world, he is God. And that's not what the founding fathers sat around the table and came up with. It just isn't. And we need to respect that. We should continue to be representing people that have a moral standing, that are looking out for other people who are more interested in taking care of others than they are of taking care of themselves. Not hard.

[Nicole Wallace]

And until then, the art and the music.

[Jeff Daniels]

Well, that's the escape for me. Yeah, that's the escape. It's where I get to channel some stuff, you know, and so will you play something? Sure, sure.

[Nicole Wallace]

I was there on Monday, and it definitely lands through your truth and your honesty and your humor. It does land on hope. Right? Your songs, your sets, your set list. I feel like wove a thread.

[Podcast Host]

Is that fair?

[Jeff Daniels]

I make fun of some things, but it's irreverent.

[Nicole Wallace]

But it does land on some hopeful messages.

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

Winds its way through some weed.

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

What are you gonna play?

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah. So I have this song that it's. It's about a guy trying to pick up somebody in a bar and a great writer named Lanford Wilson, Pulitzer Prize winning playwright, he was a mentor. And he would say things like, this is the best cup of coffee I've ever had. And he would just toss that up and so I stole that and then wrote this.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

The best damn pickup line I ever heard was by some guy in a bar south of Harrisburg. Seen himself a woman she was drinking all alone I watched him blaze a.

[Jeff Daniels]

Trail into her great unknown.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

He sidled up smooth like a man on the make that empty seat beside her was his to take. He's a darl and I know just what you think you're thinking. Bartender, I'll have what she thinks she's drinking. And before she knew it, he was in control. She was the rhythm to his blue she was the rock to his roll. All he had to say where do we begin?

[Jeff Daniels]

How about we cut to the chase? Start at the end?

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Daniels]

He said I bet.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

You'Ve lived a life best forgotten. You're up for grabs, you're down trodden past is on your back and your future's too far. And now you're where you don't know why you're where you are. You said if somehow or other they made me king of this world. I'd turn your oyster into a gray bay pearl. A snap of my fingers and a wave of my wand. I'd brighten your darkness with a brand new doll. And before she knew it, he was in control. She was the rhythm who was blue. She was the rock of his rope. All he had to say was where do we begin?

[Jeff Daniels]

How about we cut to the chase? Start at the end.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

Before she could say a word, he was staring off in the distance like he's broken down and needed some roadside assistance. When he finally turned, looked her right straight in the eye he said, darling, at the risk of seeing a grown.

[Jeff Daniels]

Man cry.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

I don't know about you I'd love to live in a place where I'm surrounded by loads. Love, compassion and grace. There ain't no castles, there ain't no thrones. Everyone's got everyone and no one's alone.

[Jeff Daniels]

Where there ain't no hatred, there ain't no greed.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

The only thing you want is the.

[Jeff Daniels]

Only thing you need.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

Where miracles happen and dreams come true. Where a man like me. Yes, a man like me.

[Jeff Daniels]

Can love a woman like you.

[Jeff Daniels (performing)]

The best damn pickup line I ever heard was by some guy in a bar. South of the air is perfect.

[Nicole Wallace]

Brought the house down on Monday.

[Jeff Daniels]

Made him cry. When in doubt, leave him crying.

[Nicole Wallace]

So this song has a lot more hope than our conversation today. Is that just the delta between art and life?

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah, they're at war. And me, that's for sure. I still have hope. And Kathleen and I were. Because she's livid, your wife. Just of what's going on and everything. And I'm trying to muddle through. And I said, look, it may come down right now to get up today and just do one thing that's good for someone else, for yourself, for someone else. One little hour of hope a day. Let's start there. Because I can't keep up with the chaos. I'm not on social media anymore and I say that proudly and I don't care. But it's just this. You just gotta find the flower that comes up through the cracks of the sidewalk or something. That's. That's where I am right now. I hope so. But as someone who turns 70, you don't want to hear from me anymore. You're not that interested in what I have to. You know, I'm just, okay, got it. Good luck.

[Nicole Wallace]

How's 70?

[Jeff Daniels]

I likened it to. 60 is you're driving down your little town residential street at 25 miles an hour and you hit a speed bump. That's. Ooh, that's 60.

[Nicole Wallace]

You feel it?

[Jeff Daniels]

Yeah, you feel it. But you know, no problem. You're still going where you're going. 65 is you're going down the highway at the speed limit. 70. And then you hit the speed bump. You felt that one more. You didn't blow a tire. You're okay. You keep going 70, you're going down the interstate driving 90, and you hit the speed bump and you go airborne and you just hope there are angels on the other end of wherever it is you land.

[Nicole Wallace]

I love that.

[Jeff Daniels]

That's all I got.

[Nicole Wallace]

Jeff Daniels, thank you. You're the best people that I've had a chance to get to know in doing my job.

[Jeff Daniels]

Thank you, Nicole.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thank you for doing this with us.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you so much for listening to the best people. Be sure to subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to get this another MSNBC podcast ad. Free. As a subscriber, you will also get early access and exclusive bonus content. If you've been enjoying our conversations with the best people, please be sure to rate and review the show. Your reviews will help others discover the show. All episodes of the podcast are also available on YouTube as well. Visit msnbc.com thebestpeople to watch. The Best People is produced by Vicki Vergelina and senior producer Lisa Ferry, with additional support from Clara Grubberg and Rana Shahbazi. Our audio engineer is Bob Mallory and Bryson Barnes is the head of audio production. Pat Berkey is the executive producer of Deadline White House. Brad Gold is the executive producer of content strategy. Aisha Turner is the executive producer of audio, and Madeline Herringer is the senior Vice president in charge of audio, digital and long form search for the best people in Nicole Wallace wherever you get your podcast and follow the whole series.

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