The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

Episode: Jess Michaels Survived Epstein. Now She’s Speaking Up

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace (Nicole)
Guests: Jess Michaels, survivor and advocate; Jennifer Freeman, attorney for survivors

Episode Overview

This episode features a deeply personal and courageous conversation with Jess Michaels, an early, publicly-known survivor of Jeffrey Epstein and a leading advocate for sexual violence survivors, along with her attorney, Jennifer Freeman. Together with host Nicolle Wallace, they examine the ongoing trauma of sexual abuse, the entrenched failures of institutions to protect and vindicate victims, the culture of silence and complicity, and the movement for real accountability and change. The discussion moves from Jess’s own harrowing story of survival through the systemic betrayals by law enforcement and political leaders, to the fierce new solidarity among survivors as they call for the public release of suppressed records and demand reform.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Surviving Epstein: Jess’s Story and Path to Advocacy

• Jess describes the grooming and assault by Jeffrey Epstein in 1991, facilitated through a trusted roommate, and the psychological manipulation she endured.
• She discusses her long journey to processing the trauma, including the challenges of even giving voice to her experience, referencing the effect of trauma on the brain's Broca’s area (03:15).
• The revelation that her specific experience was later trivialized as a cartoon in Epstein’s infamous "birthday book" causes fresh pain and illustrates the deep-rooted culture of impunity and objectification.

  “Literally all of these powerful men and women were looking at us as toys and as jokes and as playthings and didn't see fit to tell anyone or try to stop it…” — Jess Michaels (14:05)

• Jess frames her advocacy around the importance of empathetic witnessing and societal recognition of trauma:

  “Peter Levine has a quote that says, trauma isn't the event. It's the absence of an empathetic witness.” — Jess Michaels (16:10)

Timestamps:

• Jess’s account of meeting and being assaulted by Epstein: [03:55–13:00]
• Impact of the birthday book and public humiliation: [13:00–14:43]

2. Institutional Betrayal and Long-Term Trauma

• Jennifer Freeman details repeated failures by law enforcement and the FBI to act on credible survivor allegations, specifically highlighting Maria Farmer’s ignored 1996 complaint ([17:41]).

  “...when there's a failure of accountability...an institutional betrayal, which is what we have here...That is when the trauma remains.” — Jennifer Freeman (17:41)

• The conversation interrogates the lack of transparency, the resistance to releasing investigation files, and the normalization of sexual violence by current political leaders.

  “I feel like this administration is normalizing the desensitization of sexual assault and almost the decriminalizing of it.” — Jess Michaels (15:32-16:07)

• Discussion of government FOIA stonewalling, with specific reference to denial and delay in producing Maria Farmer’s FBI records (40:48).

Timestamps:

• Law enforcement and government failure: [17:41–20:15]; [39:00–41:25]

3. Building Survivor Community: Healing and Solidarity

• Jess speaks about the unique bonding power and healing found when survivors unite, sharing that she is the earliest publicly-known survivor and the transformative effect of connection:

  “We were really feeding off of each other...So it was less Kumbaya...and more like just powerful Circle of fire.” — Jess Michaels (24:00–25:51)

• The group’s activism is fueling both healing and continued calls for change.
• Jennifer:

  “These women are a force. They're a force together.” (25:51)

Timestamps:

• Survivor meetings and the importance of community: [23:38–25:54]

4. The Blast Radius of Trauma

• Jess details the personal and physical costs she experienced after the assault, from career loss to isolation and chronic ill health, underscoring the pervasive, long-term impact and societal cost:

  “I lost my career. I lost my health, my physical health...Your relationships, your friendships. You isolate...The CDC had a quote on damage...approximate is $122,000 per person. And that was back in 2014...Times all of that, by minimum, a thousand.” — Jess Michaels (31:25–33:48)

Timestamps:

• Impact of trauma and societal costs: [31:25–33:48]

5. Defining Justice and The Path Forward

• Justice, to Jess, includes not only legal accountability for perpetrators, but also acknowledgment of institutional failures, genuine societal change, and recognition of the traumatic injury itself:

  “Justice is acknowledging negligence, acknowledging systemic failure, and...institutional courage to want to make change.” — Jess Michaels (33:57)

• She criticizes "institutional cowardice" and underscores the importance of changes in law and language, advocating for seeing sexual assault as "injury" rather than mere "disorder".
• Jennifer calls for the release of all relevant files as a core act of accountability:

  “Justice includes accountability. Accountability includes releasing the records, releasing the files, finding out what happened...it's important for us to understand this, to understand the depth of this negligence so that we can not do it again.” — Jennifer Freeman (39:00–39:47)

Timestamps:

• Justice and record release: [33:48–35:52]; [39:00–41:25]

6. Changing Culture and Public Perception

• Jess stresses the need to reframe victim blaming and eliminate survivor shame:

  “How do you begin to turn the culture so that...the woman never feels any shame. The man does. And the society judges the rapist, the criminal, not the victim...” — Nicole (42:49) “We don't know what to do next...I'm trying to do is to really frame sexual assault as an injury first. That demands care before there's an interrogation or investigation.” — Jess Michaels (43:21)

• The value and shortcomings of #MeToo and the need for a next step—centering survivor healing and dignity over public doubt or proof demands.
• Civil litigation as a tool for accountability is discussed as well ([45:08]).

7. Profile of Predators and Societal Responsibility

• Jess dispassionately analyzes how predatory manipulation works:

  “...if there were already a dozen of those books sitting there in 1991, you were no match for him at 22 years old, you were no match for the level of manipulation.” — Jess Michaels (46:19) “It's not just about sex. It's about domination and it's about fear and it's about control...No, it's not just a bad hookup.” — Jess Michaels (46:19–47:56)

• Nicole presses that the horror of these crimes is a universal issue, not just a women's issue ("any father of a daughter...should be wrestling with it").

8. Politics, Advocacy, and the Role of Women

• Jess and Jennifer agree that hope rests increasingly with women leaders and the broader community of mothers, regardless of politics:

  “I think we are going to need the women in power to stand up to the men in power right now.” — Jess Michaels (48:27) “This is a nonpartisan issue when you're talking about child sex trafficking and sexual assault...” — Jess Michaels (49:00)

• Jennifer adds:

  “And these women are not going away. These women are motivated and they're smart, and they. They care deeply about this, and this is their time to come forward...” (50:22)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jess on Trauma and Speaking Out:
  “I've literally been rewiring my brain and healing that injury for the last five years, purposefully, because...that's the part that people miss in a survivor's story.” (03:15)
• On Cultural Complicity:
  “Everyone around Jeffrey Epstein co signed that behavior...it was laughed at, but it was actually celebrated in this book by everyone that signed it.” — Jess Michaels (13:25)
• On Institutional Betrayal:
  “...one of the largest failures of law enforcement in US history. It's gone on for three decades and over 1,000 women could have been spared if only the government had listened.” — Jennifer Freeman (17:41)
• On the Future of Survivor Advocacy:
  “We are part of the conversation. And that is what I think is also really fueling us is the fact that we were so blatantly left out...we're saying, you're not leaving us out of the conversation again. And that feels healing.” — Jess Michaels (26:48)
• On Hope and the Role of Women:
  “I am begging, begging these women...that they will appeal for us, that they will advocate for us in a powerful way to make a difference.” — Jess Michaels (48:48)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|------------------| | Jess’s Origin Story & Epstein Encounter | 03:55–13:00 | | Birthday Book Humiliation | 13:00–14:43 | | On Institutional Betrayal | 17:41–20:15 | | Survivor Community Formation | 23:38–26:16 | | On the Societal Cost of Trauma | 31:25–33:48 | | Defining Justice & Need for Policy Change | 33:48–35:52 | | Accountability & Release of Records | 39:00–41:25 | | Call for Cultural Change | 43:21–47:56 | | Politics, Transparency, and the Role of Women| 48:27–50:36 |

Tone and Language

The conversation is earnest, raw, sometimes clinical, and unwaveringly direct about difficult subject matter. Jess’s testimony is detailed, vulnerable, and delivered with a sense of mission, while Jennifer provides calm legal context and strategic direction. Nicolle maintains a supportive and forthright tone, punctuating the narrative with essential, probing questions and solidarity.

Summary

In this emotional and essential episode, Jess Michaels bravely details her assault by Jeffrey Epstein, the physical and psychological aftermath, and the broader culture of silencing, objectification, and institutional betrayal faced by survivors. With her attorney Jennifer Freeman, she makes a compelling case for not only legal and cultural accountability but for a wholesale reframing of justice to center survivor injury, dignity, and empowerment. The momentum among survivors and allies is growing, with a special call to action for women—and especially mothers—to demand truth and change at all levels of society.