Podcast Summary

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

Episode: Marc Elias Urges Dems to Replace Nostalgia with Forward Progress
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Guest: Marc Elias (Election Law Attorney and Democracy Advocate)

Brief Overview

This episode features a candid, urgent conversation between Nicolle Wallace and Marc Elias in the fraught aftermath of Trump’s re-election. Elias, famed for his persistent, outspoken defenses of democracy in the wake of authoritarian advances, analyzes both immediate threats—like DOJ overreach, voter suppression, and the manipulation of electoral systems—and the broader need for Democrats to abandon backwards-looking nostalgia in favor of bold, new strategies. The episode’s tone is bracingly honest, at times bleak, but focused on pragmatic resistance, resilience, and the imperative to adapt.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Confronting Dark Realities, Not Sugarcoating Them

• [02:24] Elias explains why he processed and spoke about Trump’s second victory immediately, unlike others who took time to absorb the news.

  • "I tend to focus on the challenge in front of us...I felt sort of an imperative to be willing to say that and not try to ease into what was going to happen, because, honestly, that's precious time lost." — Marc Elias

• [03:36] Why it’s vital to expose MAGA’s darkest impulses to the public, for the sake of mounting a durable opposition:

  • "If you are not speaking truthfully to yourselves...you're engaged honestly in a kind of luxury belief that has real consequences for others." — Elias
  • Lack of outrage and willingness to act benefits authoritarian momentum.

2. Where We Stand: Authoritarian Restructuring and Public Numbness

• [04:39] Trump’s second term is defined by a two-stage authoritarian advance: resetting government control, then desensitizing the public to overt abuses.

• [05:24] "There’s much too little outrage right now about what’s happening with people being dragged off the streets, citizens being handcuffed and interrogated...There’s a lot of interest in that, but not fundamental outrage." — Elias

• [06:33] The pivotal test for 2026: whether elections can remain free and fair, as legal structures and societal norms erode.

3. 2026 Election Forecast: Orchestrated Chaos

• [06:34] Elections will be “messy”—intentionally so.

  • “They’re going to be messy because Donald Trump wants them to be messy and because messiness allows him to exert more executive power and spread more lies.” — Elias

• [07:13] Multiple actors—Trump, inspired individuals, and foreign parties—are pressuring the electoral system, now against a backdrop of aggressive DOJ data collection.

4. DOJ’s Voter Data Collection: An Unprecedented Threat

• [08:24–09:56] Elias sounds the alarm on DOJ lawsuits seeking full voter files, warning that the department is no longer a neutral actor, and career DOJ staffers are necessarily complicit.

  • “If you're working for this Department of Justice and you're collecting his records, you're on the bad guy side.” — Elias [08:24]

• [18:48] New statistic: Under Trump, DOJ has filed 21 lawsuits for full access to state voter files this year—a precursor to mass disenfranchisement.

• [22:18] Nicolle presses: with all pretense of impartiality gone, "nothing protects the American people's personal data."

5. Vote Suppression by Redefining Fraud

• [17:00–18:20] Republicans manufacture fraud where none exists, and pass laws criminalizing routine voter behavior—targeting youth and mobility.

  • “They’ve just created a category of fraud out of something that is actually not fraudulent.” — Elias [18:20]

• The DOJ’s data pursuits would give the Trump camp unprecedented targeting and disenfranchisement power.

6. Democratic (and Media) Failures: Nostalgia vs. Adaptive Strategy

• [23:32] The Biden administration’s failure to prioritize voting rights legislation is seen as a pivotal misstep.

  • “Presidents get like one shot...I had hoped that voting rights would be the thing, but it obviously wasn't...and I'm not sure when that shot comes again.” — Elias

• [25:28] Both host and guest stress the necessity of focusing forward, adapting campaign and legal tactics rather than longing for lost norms.

7. What Republicans Get Right

• [26:20] Republicans’ structural discipline:

  • Decades-long strategic investment in shaping jurisprudence around voting and campaign finance.
  • “They value the rules of voting more than some Democrats.” — Elias

• [28:25–29:39] Democrats’ lack of deeply integrated, forward-thinking structures; the need to replace “nostalgia” with a robust, future-facing program.

8. Nostalgia is Not a Strategy

• [29:39–31:34] The administrative state (the 'post-New Deal’ system) is likely gone; Democrats must propose new models, not promise a return to the pre-Trump status quo.

  • “We're not going back...we need a theory of government...a new approach moving forward that accepts that reality.” — Elias

• [32:10] Merrick Garland is criticized for prioritizing ‘norms’ over substantive democratic defense:

  • “In his farewell address he literally says the most important thing are norms. And I'm thinking, okay, no, that is definitely not the most important thing.” — Elias

9. Capitulation or Collaboration: Society’s Power Brokers

• [41:57] Law firms, universities, corporations: Many are not mere victims but “collaborators” who actively monetize their proximity to Trump’s regime.
  • “At some point, my sympathy for you as a victim wanes when you decide that it's actually a business model.” — Elias [42:04]

10. A Shift in the Wind After Recent Elections?

• [44:31] Despite re-election, Trump has “lost the thread” and tautness of his coalition.
  • “It is so clear that Donald Trump has lost...He’s lost the thread.” — Elias [44:43]
  • Democratic energy and disaffection within MAGA are both in evidence; structural Republican weaknesses begin to show.

11. Everyday Resistance: Poking Holes in Potatoes

• [47:49–49:50] Elias’s metaphor for the resistance: Like WWII prisoners sabotaging produce with barbed wire, every small act matters.

  • “If he can do that, I can poke holes in the potatoes...in my life, in the things I can do.” — Elias

• Both host and guest find deep meaning and resilience in continuing to inform, organize, and fight—no matter how daunting the odds.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• [02:24] "I felt sort of an imperative to be willing to say that and not try to ease into what was going to happen, because, honestly, that's precious time lost." — Marc Elias
• [03:53] "You're engaged honestly in a kind of luxury belief that has real consequences for others." — Elias
• [05:24] "There’s much too little outrage right now...it is generating now less and less news." — Elias
• [06:34] "They're going to be messy because Donald Trump wants them to be messy and because messiness allows him to exert more executive power and spread more lies." — Elias
• [08:24] "If you're working for this Department of Justice and you're collecting his records, you're on the bad guy side." — Elias
• [18:20] "They’ve just created a category of fraud out of something that is actually not fraudulent." — Elias
• [24:51] “Presidents get like one shot or a couple of shots at something really big in their first term...I had hoped that voting rights would be the thing, but it obviously wasn’t.” — Elias
• [26:20] "They have committed to a long term jurisprudence that is now paying dividends. And I don't think that exists on the left." — Elias on Republicans
• [29:39] "What may wake them up...what we need to have is, is the replacement of nostalgia for a forward looking program." — Elias
• [32:10] "In his [Garland’s] farewell address he literally says the most important thing are norms. And I'm thinking, okay, no, that is definitely not the most important thing." — Elias
• [42:04] "At some point, my sympathy for you as a victim wanes when you decide that it's actually a business model." — Elias
• [44:43] “It is so clear that Donald Trump has lost. I don't want to say he's lost his base, because that's not true, but he has lost. He's lost the thread.” — Elias
• [49:50] "If he can do that, I can poke holes in the potatoes...in my life, in the things I can do." — Elias

Important Segments—Timestamps

• [02:07] Nicolle introduces Elias, his role, and their history covering democracy threats.
• [03:36] On why it’s vital not to deny or soften MAGA’s dangerous actions.
• [04:39] 'Where are we now?’: The authoritarian advance and public numbness.
• [06:34] 2026 elections: 'messy’ by design, with compounded threats.
• [08:24] Department of Justice involvement in voter data—call for action among DOJ staff.
• [17:00] Supposed anti-fraud laws as targeted voter suppression.
• [18:48] Exclusive: DOJ has filed 21 lawsuits for state voter data access.
• [23:32] The missed moment for Democrats: Voting rights legislation under Biden.
• [25:28] The futility of nostalgia and the need for forward motion.
• [29:39] Structural Republican discipline vs. Democratic gaps.
• [41:57] “Capitulation” vs “collaboration”: differentiating mere compliance from enabling and profiting from authoritarianism.
• [44:31] Trumpian movement losing coherence and base unity.
• [47:49] What keeps Elias going: WWII POW sabotage as an analogy for persistence and resistance.
• [50:23] The collective value of small acts of resistance.

Conclusion

With urgency and candor, Elias compels listeners: Democrats (and all pro-democracy forces) must abandon dreams of returning to pre-Trump norms. Instead, they must learn from their adversaries, design new frameworks for justice and voting rights, and “poke holes in the potatoes” wherever possible. Every action counts against the authoritarian tide—and future progress requires resolve, honesty, and forward-focused vision.

The episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking unvarnished, strategic insight into America’s evolving democracy crisis, and wisdom for the arduous road ahead.