The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

Episode: "Martin Sheen is the Most Presidential Man in the Room"

Air Date: October 13, 2025
Guest: Martin Sheen
Notable Surprise Guest: Lawrence O’Donnell
Event: Recorded Live at MSNBC Live 25, New York City

Episode Overview

This engaging episode features Emmy and Golden Globe-winning actor Martin Sheen, lauded both for his 70-year career and his lifelong activism. Recorded at MSNBC Live 25 in NYC before an enthusiastic audience, Sheen reflects on his decades as an artist and organizer, his hope for America, and his call to decency in turbulent times. The conversation includes moving stories about civil rights, his iconic portrayal of President Jed Bartlet on "The West Wing," and the enduring power of principled leadership—fictional and real.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legacy of the 1960s & The Power of Lost Causes

[00:59; 13:54]

• Martin Sheen recounts the losses of the civil rights era: “We crawled out of the 60s… We lost all the heroes and the martyrs. But we came out absolutely dedicated to serving lost causes. Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for.”
  (Martin Sheen, [00:59], [13:54])
• The era's violence galvanized his activism, reinforcing his commitment to nonviolence.

2. Bringing Broadway Together for Justice – "Broadway Answers Selma"

[06:18 – 13:15]

• Sheen’s Story: As a young actor on Broadway during the Selma marches, Sheen spearheaded a benefit with Jack Albertson, Sammy Davis Jr., and Barbra Streisand for the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and Rev. James Reeb’s family.
• Meeting Dr. King (Almost): Dr. King’s surprise appearance at the benefit left Sheen awestruck, but he debated whether to approach for a blessing—a moment he recounts with humility and humor.
• Emotional Impact: “I never met him, but I told that story to Oprah… It’s probably a better story that I didn’t meet him. He’d probably still be there listening to me. I adored him.” (Martin Sheen, [13:54])

3. Activism: Then and Now

[17:05 – 22:45]

• Sheen compares then and now: "Does this moment feel worse to you?" asks the host, referencing civil rights. Sheen answers, “It does because it’s scarier actually. Since 9/11, arrests on federal property can bring an automatic six months… You have to go as a community… demonstrate that one heart with courage is a majority.” ([17:35])
• He points out the loneliness and egoism at the heart of today's political leadership: “In that room [the White House Cabinet], there’s no heroes, no music, no laughter… it smells of ego and fear and false worship.” ([21:20])
• On the importance of vulnerability: “Being human is all we need. We’re broken. It’s beautiful, brokenness. Because if you weren’t broken, nothing could get in to change you.” ([21:50])

4. A Direct Message to the President & The Role of Humanity

[22:45 – 23:29]

• Sheen issues a heartfelt, if sardonic, address to the president:
  “You are the biggest nothing in the world… Get in touch with that humanity. Stop fussing with your hair… Stand up straight and start being human. That’s what you were made for, not golf.” ([22:50], [23:29])

5. Humor, Mockery, and Enduring Hope

[23:29 – 26:48]

• On the necessity of humor: “If we can’t make fun of ourselves… see how ridiculous we are… the ego is such a beast… but it teaches us how to identify with ourselves. When it gets out of hand, you’ll choke on your own ego.” ([24:02])
• The Roman lesson: Leaders would whisper, “It’s only fleeting,” in the ruler’s ear—“This administration is only fleeting.” ([25:56])
• Regarding public fear that current conditions will last forever, Sheen insists, “It’s only fleeting. You and I are only fleeting. All of you are only fleeting.” ([26:39])

6. Hollywood, Identity, and the Artist’s Role

[26:48 – 28:16]

• Sheen downplays his connection to Hollywood:
  “I don’t really feel a part of Hollywood… I always felt a bit embarrassed when they called me a Hollywood actor. I always thought I was a Broadway star, for heaven’s sakes.” ([28:06])

7. Aaron Sorkin and The “West Wing Effect”

[28:16 – 31:12; 33:16 – 34:19]

• On Sorkin’s vision: “Aaron is a super patriot with a brilliant mind and a fair heart. He never cast a Republican as an enemy—the loyal opposition… [he had an] unabashed love of country. Not politics or party per se, but of country, the possibility of it.” ([28:50])
• Sheen on the “West Wing’s” resonance:
  “When I did it my way, it was Martin and it was okay. When I did it his way, it was Bartlet and it was wonderful.” ([33:16])
• The host credits "The West Wing" for her own career: “I work in politics because of watching C.J. Craig. I wanted to be C.J. Craig…” ([34:19])

8. Surprising the Audience: Lawrence O’Donnell Joins

[34:36 – 41:47]

• O’Donnell recounts the show’s authenticity and Sheen’s leadership “every day… in the presence of this generosity and grace and goodness and wisdom. We had a leader.” ([36:20])
• O’Donnell explains why "The West Wing" endures, especially for young viewers who’ve only known recent administrations:
  “A friend… watches it with his two sons, 14 and 16… [They] need him.” ([39:02])
• Sheen credits O’Donnell’s deep knowledge for the show’s credibility:
  “Lawrence brought… credibility… knowledge… his love of the Senate… That kept us afloat… because we knew what we were doing was legal, was honest, and it was also the truth.” ([39:54])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Martin Sheen:

  • “Lost causes are the only causes worth fighting for.” ([00:59], [13:54])
  • “Being human is all we need. We’re broken. It’s beautiful, brokenness.” ([21:50])
  • “Get in touch with that humanity. Stop fussing with your hair… Stand up straight and start being human. That’s what you were made for, not golf.” ([22:50])
  • “[Aaron Sorkin] never cast a Republican as an enemy. They were the loyal opposition if the Democrats were in power and then vice versa.” ([28:50])
  • “When I did it my way, it was Martin and it was okay. When I did it his way, it was Bartlet and it was wonderful.” ([33:16])

• Lawrence O’Donnell:

  • “What I’m so thrilled about you experiencing here today… is that you’re getting a feeling I’ve never really been able to explain to people about what it was like… to be in the presence of this generosity and grace and goodness and wisdom every day. We had a leader.” ([36:20])
  • “A friend… when he first saw the show… thought it was maybe a little too naive… but now, [watching] with his two sons… They need him.” ([39:02])

• Podcast Host:

  • “One of the ways the good guys lose is if we don’t see each other and feel connected. And you’ve always been a convener.” ([13:15])
  • On the fictional presidency’s inspiration: “When you see in President Clinton or President Obama a reflection or relationship to the fictional presidents, you feel different about your country than when you see someone who said, ‘grab ‘em in the…’ You know what I mean?” ([28:16])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:18 – 13:15] Sheen’s story of organizing Broadway Answers Selma and his near-encounter with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
• [17:35] Sheen on the fear and necessity of protest post-9/11 and the importance of courageous community
• [21:50] Reflections on vulnerability, ego, and what it means to be beautifully, blessedly broken
• [22:50] Direct message to the president: “Get in touch with that humanity…”
• [24:02; 25:56] On the importance of humor, ego, and the lesson “it’s only fleeting”
• [28:50] On Aaron Sorkin’s vision and the “West Wing Effect”
• [36:20 – 39:54] Surprise appearance by Lawrence O’Donnell: behind-the-scenes of "The West Wing" and its cultural impact

Takeaways

• Martin Sheen’s activism, humility, and sense of calling have always informed his art.
• The power of collective action and personal courage remains fundamental, especially in dark times.
• The "West Wing" shows Americans’ hunger for principled, human leadership—and its resonance is perennial, especially now.
• Ego, humor, and a sense of our brief place in history offer both caution and hope.
• True humanity—broken, vulnerable, striving—is a blessing and the key to authentic connection.

Recommended for:
Anyone needing a reminder of the power of principled leadership, artistic purpose, or simply a dose of decency and hope.