Podcast Summary: "The Best People with Nicolle Wallace"

Episode: “Pod Save America” Co-Hosts: Re-Humanization Needs to be a Goal Now
Guests: Jon Favreau & Tommy Vietor (Crooked Media, Pod Save America)
Release Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC)

Overview

This episode features a dynamic conversation between Nicolle Wallace and the co-founders/co-hosts of Pod Save America (Jon Favreau and Tommy Vietor). The discussion centers on the unique power and obligation of political media in the Trump era, the role of authenticity and intimacy in podcasting versus television, strategies for the pro-democracy movement and media, and the urgent need to "re-humanize" politics as America struggles with the rise of authoritarian practices and political violence. The hosts reflect candidly on their roles, the evolution of the media landscape, the challenges facing Democrats, and raising children in a fraught political environment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Intimacy of Podcasting and Authentic Conversation

• Podcasting vs TV: The Pod Save America hosts emphasize how podcasting’s intimacy encourages real, unvarnished conversation—breaking down the wall between "on air" and "off air" personas, which helps listeners feel personally connected.

  • Jon Favreau (03:04): "We just try as hard as we can to talk about it in a way that we would talk about it off mic."
  • Tommy Vietor (03:05): “The best episodes are when you kind of forget that this thing is gonna go out.”

• Obligation to Listeners: The sense of responsibility to avoid “fluff or spin” is heightened in the podcast format because listeners invite the hosts directly into their private space (their ears).

The Trump Era and Media Asymmetry

• Political Entertainment on the Right: The co-hosts analyze how Fox News has embraced an entertaining, formulaic style to galvanize its audience, pushing the left to catch up in terms of reach and influence—particularly with new platforms like YouTube.

  • Tommy Vietor (07:01): “Fox is more formulaic in that sense, but it's also much more entertaining... They basically have New York Post headlines under the screen all the time. I don't know, I think we could all learn from it, probably.”

• Liberal Media’s Challenge: The left’s “ecosystem is developing quickly” but is still fragmented by the desire to be both entertaining and substantively urgent.

• Reaching Beyond the “Political Junkies”:

  • Jon Favreau (08:17): “The Democrats’ challenge... is reaching beyond the political junkies to people who vote but don’t necessarily pay close attention.”

Trump 2.0: Malevolence, Incompetence, and Impact

• Strategy for Coverage:

  • Tommy Vietor (11:51): “We can't cover everything he says, especially if it's outrageous... We have to focus as much as we can on what he has been doing.”
  • Recent stories of corruption (like pardoning controversial figures) are cited as overlooked but vital for the media to surface persistently.

• Difference between Incompetence and Malice:

  • Jon Favreau (13:18): “I try to spend less time trying to guess what his motivations are... and just focus on the effects of what they're doing. Because I think ultimately that is what's gonna matter to people who are going to be affected.”

Rule of Law, ICE Raids, and Dehumanization

• Types of Authoritarianism: The hosts and Wallace discuss the chilling normalization of brazen government actions—from prosecutions of political enemies to extrajudicial ICE raids.

  • Nicole Wallace (13:52): “The trickiest thing about covering him is... this collision between brazen incompetence and brazen malevolence.”

• Personal Stakes and Outrage:

  • Jon Favreau (14:44): “We've had this challenge... talking to voters about attacks on democracy, attacks on the rule of law, because it doesn’t really land with people… First you start seeing the ICE stuff. And... now they’re going after American citizens.”

The Democratic Party and Pro-Democracy Coalition

• Leadership Vacuum and Charisma Gap:

  • Jon Favreau (20:47): “The Democratic Party has lower favorable ratings than anytime since I’ve been alive... People compare this to after Bush won reelection in 2004... right now we need a leader who’s even more charismatic—or several leaders.”

• Balancing Hope with Grit:

  • Jon Favreau (23:38): “We set up this... false choice between a fighter or someone who’s hopeful... I think you need both.”

• Authenticity as Table Stakes:

  • Jon Favreau (25:40): "Whoever is going to emerge in 2028 is someone who's going to be so comfortable in every kind of setting and themselves and not sound like a talking point robot machine."

Covering Trump’s Escalating Tactics

• On Threats to Obama and Others:
  • Jon Favreau (27:37): "They’re scared... if you go after people who are, you know, John Bolton's a great example... but if they go to try to arrest Barack Obama... they're gonna banana Republicans, the most popular politician, living politician in the country."

The Legacy and Lessons from Obama

• Influence on Hosts:
  • Tommy Vietor (32:42): "I had to deprogram myself... My DNA was like, this guy's political views became mine."
  • Jon Favreau (33:29): “The way [Obama] talks and thinks is just, you know... part of me.”

Political Violence, Personal Safety, and Parenthood

• Impact of Political Violence: The assassination of political figures (referencing Charlie Kirk) forces the hosts to reconsider their own public roles and sense of security.

  • Jon Favreau (37:10): “We do live shows and we go on the road, and it makes you think twice.”

• Raising Kids in Troubling Times:

  • Tommy Vietor (41:27): “It changes everything... What kind of country are they gonna grow up in?... I want them to grow up in this country too and feel safe and be healthy and have a meaningful life.”

• Teaching Values:

  • Jon Favreau (43:57): “It is really challenging trying to explain what is going on in the world to a five year old who's starting to get it... I'm also cognizant of the fact that I want to raise kids who are generous and kind...”

The Critical Need for "Re-humanization"

• Countering Dehumanization:

  • Jon Favreau (46:29): “Democratic leaders have to not be afraid to talk about this... Rehumanization needs to be a goal of ours now because we are dealing with an authoritarian threat where they are trying to dehumanize people.”

• Power of Storytelling:

  • Tommy Vietor (45:20): “It's where the individual stories are so important... The statistics just wash over your head... It's these individual stories that are powerful.”

Optimism, Coalitions, and the Road Ahead

• Are They Optimistic?

  • Tommy Vietor (48:14): “I don't feel that optimistic. I can't lie to you. It's a little worrisome... But I think when you look around the world at the way authoritarian movements are defeated, it's by creating the biggest coalition possible.”

• Movement-Building Over Election Cycles:

  • Jon Favreau (49:15): “There are only two choices: Give up and keep fighting. And choosing to give up sort of guarantees... the worst outcome happens... What will get us out of this is a movement and a movement that is sustained, that is fearless, and that's not gonna back down.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Podcasting Mindset:

  • Tommy Vietor (04:32): "With a podcast, you have someone literally in your ears. You feel like you know them... There is something like, weirdly intimate about it and I think it's engaging and approachable, because it should be."

• On Cynicism vs. Engagement:

  • Jon Favreau (09:41): "Trump said, 'Oh, in four years you're not gonna have to vote anymore.' … It's a cynicism that sort of… melts into nihilism... And our job is the opposite of that. We're trying to tell people you actually do need to care... and you know, that takes more sacrifice."

• On Trump’s Communications Style:

  • Tommy Vietor (25:57): "Trump will do, like, three ad hoc press conferences per day and it's all live. And he riffs... and it's highly effective."

• On Rehumanization:

  • Jon Favreau (46:29): "Rehumanization is actually—that needs to be a goal of ours now because we are dealing with an authoritarian threat where they are trying to dehumanize people."

• On the Future:

  • Jon Favreau (49:15): “Give up and keep fighting. And... fighting gives you a chance. And it has throughout history.”

Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:51 | Podcast conversation begins; role of authenticity in political podcasts | | 03:44 | Comparison between podcasting and TV; intimacy and engagement | | 07:01 | Media asymmetry: Fox News style, left’s entertainment dilemma | | 11:21 | Coverage dilemma: incompetence vs. malevolence, effects vs. intentions | | 13:52 | Rule of law, ICE raids, dehumanization of immigrants and political opponents | | 19:09 | The leadership crisis in the Democratic Party; need for charismatic figures | | 22:25 | Traits needed for Democratic leadership: balancing hope with toughness | | 25:40 | Effect of Trump’s omnipresent media style on politics | | 26:11 | Whether Trump will target Obama in legal investigations | | 32:42 | How Obama’s management style shaped Favreau & Vietor’s approach to politics | | 37:04 | Impact of political violence on public figures and their sense of responsibility | | 41:27 | Parenting in the Trump era; values, fear, and explaining current events to young children | | 44:18 | The success of the GOP's dehumanization strategies and importance of “re-humanization” | | 45:20 | Persuading people through stories; role of media in humanizing policy outcomes | | 46:29 | Democratic messaging challenges and the urgency of rehumanization | | 48:14 | Final thoughts: optimism, movement-building, and the necessity of persistent activism |

Conclusion

Core Takeaway:
The episode is a clarion call for re-humanization in American political life. The Pod Save America hosts stress the power of authentic, empathetic storytelling and coalition-building as the path forward against rising authoritarianism and cynicism.

Final Words:
Jon Favreau (49:15): “What will get us out of this is a movement and a movement that is sustained, that is fearless, and that's not gonna back down. And I think that building that movement is probably gonna take way more than just one election cycle...”

Listen to the full episode for a deeper dive into these discussions and more!