Podcast Summary: Stacey Abrams’ Steps to Freedom and Power

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace, MSNBC
Date: September 8, 2025

Overview

In this compelling episode, Nicolle Wallace hosts political leader, organizer, and author Stacey Abrams for a candid conversation on the defense of American democracy against growing autocratic threats. Abrams breaks down her “10 Steps to Autocracy,” offers counterstrategies for freedom and power, explores the importance of everyday activism, and reflects on her creative work and identity as a storyteller. With urgency and wit, both dig into Georgia’s status as ground zero for voter suppression, how courage and community can overcome despair, and why small, local actions matter in the big picture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining and Resisting Autocracy

• Minority Power vs. Powerlessness

  • Abrams highlights how positions labeled "minority"—whether in Congress or broader society—are used to instill psychological barriers, but true power lies in capacity and action, not assigned status.
  • Quote: “When you decide that minority power exists, when you believe them, when they say you can be a minority leader, that's when your mind shifts...you become paralyzed when you think you've already lost.” (01:22–02:34)

• Tactics Of The New Right

  • Wallace and Abrams agree the GOP is openly telegraphing its weakness through voter suppression and anti-democratic legal maneuvers.
  • Abrams reframes these as not “dominance” but “impotence masquerading as law” (03:06–03:59).

• From Weaponizing to Dismantling Democracy

  • Quote: “Trump 1.0 was an attempt to weaponize democracy to achieve power. Trump 2.0 and the Republican agenda is to dismantle democracy so you don’t have to exceed to the wishes of the people.” – Stacey Abrams (07:09)

2. The “10 Steps to Autocracy”

(07:09–11:22)

Abrams details a stepwise roadmap for how democracies shift to autocracy, and draws contemporary parallels:

1. Hold a last free and fair election.
2. Exceed and break executive power.
3. Weaken competing powers (Congress, judiciary).
4. Gut the government—break the link between people and effective governance.
5. Install loyalists, who serve leaders not the public or Constitution.
6. Attack, fracture, and de-legitimize the media.
7. Scapegoat and attack vulnerable communities (Black, brown, disabled, LGBTQ+).
8. Target civil society (universities, protestors, legal defenders).
9. Incentivize private violence, occupy space with force (e.g. ICE, National Guard).
10. End democracy outright via election subversion, purges, executive orders.

Quote: “Those are the ten steps to autocracy.” – Stacey Abrams (11:13)

3. Why Society Accepts Open Authoritarianism

(11:22–13:14)

• Lack of Courage and Redirected Venom

  • Abrams calls out officeholders who care about holding power over serving people, and who manipulate popular anger away from the powerful and onto marginalized groups—a process enabled by media celebration of minimal acts of decency.

  • Quote: “Republicans have been able to redirect both venom, but also pain onto the people who are the least able to fight back because they want to keep the power.” (11:43)

4. Georgia: “Patient Zero” for Voter Suppression

(13:14–16:42)

• Political and Media Dynamics

  • The “parade” given to figures like Kemp and Raffensperger for refusing to overtly break the law allowed subsequent voter suppression to proceed “in plain sight.”

  • The media’s praise functioned as cover for future attacks on democratic inclusion.

  • “Brian Kemp and Brad Rastenberger were treated as heroes for democracy while they dismantled democracy in plain sight.” – Stacey Abrams (14:49)

5. Pathways for Change: Steps Toward Freedom and Power

(17:14–22:05)

• Abrams’ “10 Steps” for Freedom, emphasizing proactive, positive solutions:
  • Restoring the right to vote—automatic registration, same-day registration, and inclusionary reforms, not just defensive responses to suppression.
  • Quote: “Why aren't we a nation that has automatic voter registration in this country? … We can’t be as cavalier as they are, but we can be as intentional as they are.” (17:14)

6. Language & Framing: Calling Out Cowardice

• Abrams urges calling voter suppression what it is—a project rooted in cowardice and minority rule:
  “These are cowards who are watching the transformation of our nation into a truly pluralistic society.” (19:39)

• Patriotism Over Partisanship

  • “My job is not to make sure Democrats get to vote. It's to make sure Americans get to vote. We have to reclaim the patriotism that we all say spurs us.” (19:39)

7. Everyday Victories & Sustaining Hope

(22:35–27:03)

• Redefining Victory

  • Abrams: “When you were trying to defend democracy, when you were trying to serve the people, progress counts as victory. Because their goal is your silence. Their goal is your complicity. Their goal is your subjugation. Every day we remain free, that is progress.” (22:35)

• Mobilizing the Disengaged

  • Focus on the 90 million Americans who didn’t vote, not just traditional partisans. (24:42–25:04)
  • “We can't win with the numbers we have.”

• Power of Community and Small Actions

  • “Before we had power, before we had money, we had each other. It's how we built society, it's how we won revolutions, it's how we defeated fascism, it's how we defeated Jim Crow.” (25:04)

8. Economic Framing & Fighting Misinformation

(28:36–31:12)

• Calling Out Policy Deceptions
  • “We start by calling things what they are. We need to stop saying tariff. We need to call it taxes. [Trump] has raised taxes on everyone.” (28:36)
  • Reiterate basic truths to counter propaganda, filling knowledge gaps the right exploits.

9. The Crime Narrative and Military Occupation of Streets

(31:12–34:09)

• Rejecting False Frames

  • “We have to stop using his language, using their language...There is no emergency. This is not about solving problems. This is about taking power.” (32:08–32:39)

• Pattern Recognition Over Distraction

  • “They are the pattern used by every single autocrat in history...When we stop taking the bait and we start laying the traps, that's when we start to take our positions and our power back.” (33:45)

10. What Ordinary People Can Do

(34:09–36:20, 46:40–49:15)

• Local Civic Engagement

  • Attend city council or state legislative meetings, advocate in budget debates, and make leaders aware they’re being watched.

• Mutual Aid & Solidarity

  • Show up for communities in distress (e.g. food pantries, hurricanes) and use these moments to connect governmental (in)action to outcomes.

• Stackable “Anti-Autocracy” Habits

  • “Find one thing, the issue that matters to you the most, and make that the one thing you do once a week...then bring friends with you.” (46:40)

• Scaling Solidarity

  • Abrams invokes Buffy the Vampire Slayer's message: “Her job is to imbue everyone with the knowledge of their potential and to activate the potentials...We just have to keep reaching the potentials and getting them in the game.” (48:02)

Memorable Quotes and Moments

• On Minority Status
  “They give you leader to make you feel good. Put minority in front of it so you never get confused about...the level of power that you hold.” – Stacey Abrams (01:22)

• On Immediate Action
  “Victory is not a cinematic moment.” – Nicolle Wallace (22:05)

• On Storytelling as Power

  • “If you tell a story out loud, they call you a fibber. If you write it down, they call you an author.” – Stacey Abrams (43:39)

• On DEI’s Universal Value
  “DEI means everyone...We have to stop apologizing for being morally correct. When did moral correctness become an epithet?” – Stacey Abrams (41:43)

• On Pushing Institutions
  “Institutions learn from what community demands and community learns from what people do.” – Stacey Abrams (46:40)

Notable Segments (with Timestamps)

• [07:09] – The “10 Steps to Autocracy” explained
• [13:14] – Georgia as Patient Zero for voter suppression
• [17:14] – Blueprint for restoring and advancing democracy
• [22:35] – Progress as victory, not just winning elections
• [28:36] – Language framing on economic issues and Trump’s record
• [32:08] – Crime, misinformation, and seizing narrative power
• [41:43] – DEI, solidarity, and reclaiming moral clarity
• [46:40] – “Stackable anti-autocracy habits” and local activism
• [48:02] – The “Buffy effect” and activating everyone’s potential

Final Takeaways

Stacey Abrams’ message is one of relentless courage, creative activism, and radical honesty. By breaking through defeatism, calling out cowardice and manipulation, and rooting activism in both small, communal acts and systemic advocacy, Abrams argues Americans—regardless of party—can reclaim democracy from the brink of autocracy. Anyone can activate their power by stepping up locally and supporting not only policies, but people under threat. Progress is not a moment but a practice, and inclusive storytelling is a central tool for change.

For full context and more of the stories and advice, listen to the episode on your podcast platform of choice.