Best Console (Not Including the Games) (Patreon Bonus)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Besties - Best Console (Not Including the Games)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Besties
• Hosts/Authors: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick
• Episode: Best Console (Not Including the Games) (Patreon Bonus)
• Release Date: December 27, 2024

---

Introduction

In this special Patreon bonus episode, "The Besties" hosts Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, and Russ Frushtick embark on a unique journey to determine the Best Video Game Console, deliberately excluding any discussion about the games themselves. This departure from their usual format focuses solely on console design, features, controllers, user interface, and portability. Utilizing a detailed six-point rubric, the hosts engage in spirited debates, humorous exchanges, and insightful analyses to crown the ultimate console.

Notable Quotes:

• [00:00] Russ Russell: "Hey everyone. We have a very special gift for y'all. You're about to hear an episode we had a lot of fun recording."

---

Establishing the Bracket and Rules

To manage the extensive array of video game consoles, the hosts agree to limit their competition to:

• PlayStations 1 through 5
• Xbox Original, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S

They decide to include two PlayStations and two Xbox consoles in the bracket, ensuring a balanced and focused competition.

Notable Quotes:

• [07:03] Christopher Thomas Plant: "We have to cut all but two PlayStations and two Xbox."
• [07:20] Justin McElroy: "Yes, I like that."

---

The Six-Point Rubric

The decision-making process revolves around the following criteria:

1. Which Console Looks Cooler?
2. Which Has More Innovative Features?
3. Which Has the More Comfortable Controller?
4. Which Has the Cooler Looking Controller?
5. Which Has the Better System UI?
6. Which Is More Portable?

A tiebreaker is established: Which Name Is Cooler?

Notable Quotes:

• [04:19] Griffin McElroy: "You mention the title of a game, I'm gonna lose my fucking mind."
• [05:00] Russ Russell: "If it's tough to decide, we should do an up and down."

---

Console Matchups

1. Sega Master System vs. TurboGrafx 16

The discussion begins with a comparison of the Sega Master System and the TurboGrafx 16. The hosts evaluate the aesthetics, innovative features, and controller designs of both consoles.

Result: Sega Master System wins due to its superior box design and versatile hardware features.

Notable Quotes:

• [16:37] Christopher Thomas Plant: "I think the Sega Master System wins because the box is absolutely sick."
• [16:47] Russ Russell: "Well done. Congratulations, Sega Master System..."

2. Sega Saturn vs. Nintendo GameCube

Next, the Sega Saturn is pitted against the Nintendo GameCube. The Saturn's advanced hardware and commercial challenges are compared against the GameCube's robust design and controller ergonomics.

Result: Nintendo GameCube triumphs, praised for its appealing color options and comfortable controller.

Notable Quotes:

• [19:09] Griffin McElroy: "I prefer the Master System."
• [25:17] Griffin McElroy: "The Sega Saturn controller is an abomination."

3. Super Nintendo vs. Sega Genesis

A classic rivalry resurfaces as the Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis face off. The hosts debate based on design, controller comfort, and innovative features like the Super FX chip in SNES cartridges.

Result: Sega Genesis emerges victorious for its sleeker design and innovative features.

Notable Quotes:

• [35:08] Russ Russell: "Which looks cooler? The Super Nintendo takes this Genesis is dead forever."
• [37:13] Griffin McElroy: "Nintendo's the kids one. Sega is pretty raw and pretty cool."

4. Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) vs. Nintendo Switch

The NES is juxtaposed with the modern Nintendo Switch, focusing on design evolution, portability, system UI, and controller innovations. The nostalgic appeal of the NES is weighed against the Switch's versatility.

Result: Nintendo Switch wins, credited for revolutionizing portability and maintaining a robust design.

Notable Quotes:

• [51:18] Griffin McElroy: "I play it more than any other."
• [51:37] Russ Russell: "The Nintendo Switch, I would agree."

5. Original Xbox vs. Xbox 360

The Original Xbox is compared with its successor, the Xbox 360. The discussion highlights controller design, interface improvements, features like Xbox Live, and overall aesthetics.

Result: Xbox 360 takes the lead for its advanced features and enhanced controller comfort.

Notable Quotes:

• [53:37] Griffin McElroy: "Look, if this conversation is, I think largely spearheaded by aesthetics, I think that the Xbox doesn't look very good."
• [55:19] Justin McElroy: "But it's nice."

6. PlayStation 1 vs. PlayStation 2

The final matchup examines the transition from PlayStation 1 to PlayStation 2, considering design improvements, multimedia functionalities like DVD playback, system UI enhancements, and portability.

Result: PlayStation 1 wins, celebrated for its iconic design and foundational impact on gaming consoles.

Notable Quotes:

• [63:21] Griffin McElroy: "I love stories about video games our entire lives. It was the forever fantasy."
• [65:58] Justin McElroy: "...if we're giving it the benefit of the doubt for its innovation, then the reliability of those has to be taken into account."

---

Dreamcast's Special Mention

Throughout the episode, the Sega Dreamcast is passionately advocated by Griffin McElroy as "da best," despite not being part of the main bracket. The Dreamcast's innovative features, such as the Virtual Memory Unit (VMU) and pioneering online capabilities, are lauded for setting industry standards ahead of its time.

Notable Quotes:

• [41:32] Griffin McElroy: "Dreamcast, da Best by Spike."
• [86:55] Griffin McElroy: "Dreamcast, da Best by Spike."

---

Final Rankings

Based on the discussions and rubric evaluations, the final console rankings are as follows:

1. Dreamcast (Special Mention)
2. Xbox 360
3. Nintendo GameCube
4. Nintendo Switch
5. Sega Genesis
6. Super Nintendo
7. Nintendo Wii
8. PlayStation 1
9. PlayStation 2
10. Original Xbox
11. TurboGrafx 16
12. Sega Saturn
13. Sega Master System
14. Nintendo Wii U

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the intense and humorous debates surrounding console design and innovation. While the Dreamcast is humorously crowned as the best console, the genuine appreciation for each console's unique contributions to gaming history is evident. The hosts thank their listeners for supporting the episode and invite them to join future discussions to continue celebrating the rich legacy of video game consoles.

Notable Quotes:

• [91:37] Justin McElroy: "Congratulations to Dreamcast. Thanks to you for listening."
• [92:32] Christopher Thomas Plant: "Sa."

---

This episode of "The Besties" offers a blend of nostalgia, critical analysis, and comedic banter, providing listeners with a comprehensive and entertaining exploration of video game console history and innovation.

Transcript

[Russ Russell]

Hey everyone. We have a very special gift for y'all. You're about to hear an episode we had a lot of fun recording. It was a Bracket Battles episode, one of many that we've recorded on the Patreon that's behind the paywall, but everyone gets it for free. And this is the one that the Patreon members picked. Do you guys remember recording this episode? It was pretty fun.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's like a fever dream.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's an unhinged episode where we picked the best console. Well, don't talk about games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Damned.

[Griffin McElroy]

What the fuck is me.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Magical Texas Giraffe.

[Russ Russell]

This is supposed to be a gimmick.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is like an intro.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I have an intriguing subscriber and I didn't know that on top of being a lawyer who has been graciously funding.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is a new OC of Chris.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That you will be releasing one of my behind the scenes episodes. And yet I do declare one of the best episodes. I'll grant you this time to share it with the public on my behalf.

[Griffin McElroy]

So if you want more Texas Magic Giraffe. Patreon.com TheBesties he's huge over there. Huge over there.

[Justin McElroy]

They have their whole alternate fiction.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'll show myself out.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank God. Probably good you showed yourself in. It seems only fair. This is the episode where you pick the best console but don't talk about video games at all. It's really. Enjoy. Enjoy. Dreamcast the best.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast the best, you say?

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, let me try it. Let me try again because I need to say more authoritative. Because I'm trying to say.

[Russ Russell]

Sounded like you were taking. It sounded like you were taking a bong rip when you said that.

[Justin McElroy]

I was trying to get my. Like that was my voice. I was going for. Guys, Dreamcast the best. I was trying to see if I could skip the episode. If I could just be like Dreamcast. Be like Dreamcast. And then it wouldn't even be an episode.

[Russ Russell]

I mean, Plant is on board for Dreamcast the Best.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I was ready for it, but you just walk away. I figure we owe the people what they want, you know, we have to at least put on the charade.

[Justin McElroy]

I forgot.

[Russ Russell]

Probably a little more than just Dreamcast best.

[Justin McElroy]

I forgot about our wild rubric though. I don't know if it's gonna come out on top, but I thought it would be worth floating Dreamcast da best and then just see how it played.

[Russ Russell]

Griffin, do you think Dreamcast the best?

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know about da best. It makes me sad that we don't Live in a world where SEGA was allowed to keep fucking up in huge and expensive and spectacular ways. Because Dreamcast's not the best. But Dreamcast does have the vmu. Dreamcast does have Phantasy Star Online and Shenmue.

[Justin McElroy]

No, fuck it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast the best. What am I saying.

[Russ Russell]

Justin, is you.

[Justin McElroy]

Can'T bring games into it. But Dreamcast the best.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh yeah, check out. We're not bringing okay, 19 rust to.

[Justin McElroy]

Pick up Dreamcast to best so fast, but the way it caught on so quick really tickled me. I feel like I just sent out a fax to everybody in town and all of a sudden this thing caught on. My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best console of all time.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McElroy, I know the best console of all time.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best console of all time. If you take away the games, which would seem to be self defeating, but it's what we're here to do today.

[Griffin McElroy]

Don't you undo the progress we're about to make before we even make it.

[Russ Russell]

My name is Russ Russell and I'm the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

This is the Besties. It's video game club. And just by listening you are a member. But you know the spiel. Cause you're here for our exclusive behind the Velvet Rope. Extra sexy after dark, super naughty.

[Griffin McElroy]

I did not agree to that.

[Russ Russell]

We even made like new exclusive box art. McKay made like album art specific to this feedback.

[Justin McElroy]

B 4. The bonus besties battle Baby.

[Russ Russell]

The Boneys.

[Griffin McElroy]

Welcome to the Boneys.

[Justin McElroy]

Welcome to the Boneys. It's the bonus Besties battle Baby. The B4 Boneys. Hey, listen, we're gonna be picking the best video game console, but we can't talk about the games. Well, we can. Like the games aren't part of the rubric, right?

[Griffin McElroy]

You mention the title of a game, I'm gonna lose my fucking mind.

[Russ Russell]

You cannot. A console cannot win in a matchup because it had a game that was better than the other consoles.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So let's dive into the rubric then. How does a console win without its games?

[Russ Russell]

Very valid question. So ordinarily, if you've been a regular listener of these bracket battles episodes, you know that we've had a pretty simple rubric. It's usually two points and then a tiebreaker point in case the two points are tied. I thought in this case, actually I really tried to boil the rubric down, but in this case was unable to. And. And now we have six points and a tie. Break.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The first fucking question is which box looks cooler?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I mean, that is important. That has to be the backbone of the conversation every time. I don't know what else we're talking about.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Priorities.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

So I think it's pretty straightforward. So here's the rubric. I'll read through it quickly because we have a lot to cover. Rubric one, which box looks cooler? Pretty straightforward. Two, which has more innovative. Which was more innovative in terms of features. So this is like, oh, this was the first that had a rumble pak. This was the first that had like online support, shit like that.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

Three, which has the more comfortable controller? Pretty straightforward. Four, which has the cooler looking controller? Which controller do you want to have sex with more?

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm not actually doing that.

[Russ Russell]

Just it's like subtext. So 5 is which has the better system UI. And that's obviously assuming if it exists, some of these don't even have a system ui. And then six, which is more portable. If you had to bring it to a friend's house. I will say up ahead, GameCube's fucking winning that one every time. Cause it has a fucking handle.

[Griffin McElroy]

All it's got. That's enough to walk the intro stinger. And the handle is the only thing the GameCube really has.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Here's my question about this. In your head, Russ. Do you feel like this is an up and down six point thing or do you think this more holistic rubric.

[Griffin McElroy]

These are conversation starters.

[Justin McElroy]

It's just more conversational. Or do you think it's like.

[Russ Russell]

I think if it's tough to decide, we should do an up and down.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. This is the rubric we're using generally. I like that. I think that's going to be more fruitful.

[Russ Russell]

And we have not shared the tiebreaker, which is which name is cooler.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So what we're saying is we're going to use this to come to a consensus. And if we can't come to a consensus, then we'll have to rely rigidly on the rubric. And if the rubric still ties out the name.

[Russ Russell]

Well, it won't because it has a tiebreaker.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's what I mean. That's when we'll go to the name.

[Justin McElroy]

If it's a tie, we'll use the tiebreaker.

[Russ Russell]

I think we all.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I like this.

[Russ Russell]

So issue two, before we get started, there's too many fucking consoles. Way too many.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

True.

[Russ Russell]

And to get it down to 16, which is what we normally do, and to keep this focused, we're going to have to cut all but two PlayStations and two Xbox.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, I like that.

[Russ Russell]

If anyone has any initial thoughts. And just as a reminder, we're talking about PlayStation 1 through PlayStation 5 and Xbox. Xbox 360, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S and Xbox One.

[Griffin McElroy]

I refuse. I fucking refuse to consider the Series X versus the Series S as two different. For the purposes of our conversation. It is outrageous to think that we.

[Russ Russell]

Would have very different boxes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let me put it this way. I don't think we need to worry about that. We're certainly not going to do the Xbox one. I think we could actually decide right now.

[Justin McElroy]

We are just throwing the pool cues into the pit and there is no rules here. We're just going take two of them with them. You eight decide who makes it out. We don't care. God's light doesn't make it here.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

PlayStation 2 is gonna be there, right? That seems.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think. Yeah, I think PlayStation 2. I think any of the four of us could make a pretty good case for the PlayStation 2 being there in terms of. Ahead of its times. Ness. In terms of introducing a user interface. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Russ Russell]

I think it's the PlayStation 2 and the PlayStation 5, because I think the PlayStation 5 has the controller aspects and it's certainly the one that everyone is.

[Griffin McElroy]

I see. I would say 4 over 5. I would say 4 over 5. As evidenced by the fact that I played my 4 a lot and I've played my 5 to play Sony exclusive PlayStation 5 games pretty much exclusively and then never again.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think PS5, compat.

[Justin McElroy]

I have a slight issue here with the system UI rubric. Right. Are we. I mean, is that fair in these contexts? Because that's very much iterative. Right. So, like, you could argue that 5 and 4 have the best UI of the PlayStations because they've been building on. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know that it makes sense to limit.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. Is there ever, like. Is a UI from 10 years ago ever gonna be better?

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like that's always.

[Russ Russell]

Although I would argue blades on the Xbox 360.

[Griffin McElroy]

If you like the Xbox One interface more than the Xbox 360 interface, you are a nut.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, there's. Yeah. Fair.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, I think the Xbox answers this question very well. I think the Xbox Normal, the original, and the Xbox 360 are the two to go forward.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cause the Xbox. I would agree with that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Right. The Xbox is a significant console. It's a weird fucking console that did a ton of shit.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. Okay. Very cool name, too. I would agree. So. And 360 was obviously like the peak of where Xbox ever was.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, I agree with that. It's been a downslide since 360.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We all know it.

[Justin McElroy]

They had a brief mid year.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, so that leaves us with. We're bringing forward the PlayStation 2 and the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox. And the Xbox. 360.

[Justin McElroy]

Correct. Okay.

[Russ Russell]

Argument on the PlayStation.

[Justin McElroy]

It's not an argument on the PlayStation. I think it's the proximity to the Dreamcast limits a lot of why PlayStation seems so sort of like groundbreaking at the. The leap from cartridge to CD media. I don't know that there's a more significant jump in terms of consoles.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I would do PlayStation 1 and PS2 for that reason. I agree. I think there's a more interesting conversation to be had about the original PlayStation than PlayStation. I think a lot of the points I would make about PlayStation 4 are upgraded versions of the points I'd make about too. It's like it's not just dvd, y'all, it's a Blu ray this time.

[Justin McElroy]

What about, hey, can I throw this out there? And this may be kind of air, but what about reliability?

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, well then you know what I'm saying.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I like that. I like that.

[Russ Russell]

There goes the 360.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

360 is gone.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, if we're talking about what box is best, one of the boxes you had to wrap a towel around and bring back to life.

[Russ Russell]

Do we want to kill the UI thing in favor of reliability?

[Griffin McElroy]

No, I think the UI thing is maybe we fold it into something else.

[Justin McElroy]

Can we just make three? Can we combine better, cooler looking and more comfortable controller into one thing I like talking about?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Can I also just remind you before we get too lost in the rubric, the whole change here is that it is conversation starters. That's true in theory. We won't even have to get down into the nitty gritty of like checkbox.

[Russ Russell]

And I would say if you want to talk about the UI stuff, you can talk about it in the context of features. Yeah, so we have a rubric for features. So I think that's a good place to talk about ui. And we'll add reliability here as well and you can follow along at home if you want.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm loving it.

[Russ Russell]

The rubric is probably in the newsletter.

[Griffin McElroy]

So are we saying PlayStation 1 and 2 and then the Xbox One and 360? Completely.

[Justin McElroy]

If we're talking about reliability, I got to revisit one now because I had a lot of pals that had to play Tony Hawk Pro Skater with that bad boy flipped upside down. Cause it no longer spun this properly.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, that's a good point. I would say. I think PlayStation 2 and 4, that's where my heart is leading me.

[Russ Russell]

I mean, reliability is only one point on the rubric, for what it's worth.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

So innovate.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks cool. What do you guys think about the look of the PlayStation 1?

[Russ Russell]

I think it looks fucking awesome.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks good, right? Like in terms of a console design. I want to eat it up there with the dream.

[Russ Russell]

I think I would say real talk. I think it looks better than any other PlayStation console ever made.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't disagree. I think they've all been kind of blobby black shapes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We gotta get into the main thing.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, we do.

[Griffin McElroy]

You're right.

[Russ Russell]

Okay. I think it's PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

That's where I've landed. I think those are both very representative of the biggest leaps that have happened. And everything else after that, while there have been highlights, has been iterative.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, I agree.

[Justin McElroy]

I would push towards PlayStation 2 and 3 because I think the online jump in 3 is such a massive change.

[Russ Russell]

There was online and 2 there. You could play online. You so could.

[Justin McElroy]

Maybe you could, but it's like very much a. Not built to do. Like that is not the.

[Russ Russell]

Certainly not built with the Spider man font in mind. So that is something in favor.

[Justin McElroy]

I will say. The original PlayStation 3 controller was so bad and.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, also terrible.

[Griffin McElroy]

A lot of stuff. The police.

[Russ Russell]

We do have to make these choices.

[Justin McElroy]

1 and 2. 1 and 2. 1 and two. 1.

[Griffin McElroy]

1, 1 and 2. And then the Xbox and the 360.

[Russ Russell]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Is this a problem? If you think about what has just happened with our system as design, we old men pick the two oldest boxes in each category. Is that.

[Russ Russell]

I don't think so.

[Justin McElroy]

Are we okay? We did, but like, I know we.

[Russ Russell]

No, no, no. I know we did. But I specifically don't think it's old man thinking.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think video game consoles have gotten increasingly boring and devolved into just being PCs. So there's not a lot to talk about because. And that's like, in some ways for the better because they were figuring out what the hell a console even was. The Switch is here. The Switch is doing new shit. But like the difference between a PS4 and a PS5 is like, congratulations. You have to turn off the thing that makes it hurt your fingers when you pull on the triggers.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. It is quite limited also. I think that that would be a problem if we were including Games. The game catalogs for these things, which is the major differentiator between modern console cycles.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm in a bracket, so you don't need to worry.

[Justin McElroy]

Fresh.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Just scroll down. I got us all taken care of. We are ready to go. And may I kick off this fantastic episode with one. I just don't think anybody gives a shit about SEGA Master System. For everyone who played not the Genesis, but the thing before the Genesis versus the TurboGrafx 16. The clear winner. Oh, fuck. I can't say. Because it had bonk, I immediately ran into the main problem. I can't say bonk.

[Justin McElroy]

No. TurboGrafx16 to me is, if you knew a rich kid, their parents might have taken a flyer on the TurboGrafx 16.

[Griffin McElroy]

We stayed at a fancy hotel once that had a TurboGrafx 16 in it. And I felt like I was one of the Rockefellers. I felt like we had finally been raised above our station and now could live. This is what the wealthy kids play. They're playing with this power at the TurboGrafx.

[Russ Russell]

And they also managed to pull off not exactly what the switch is doing, but pretty fucking close, where they managed to shrink the TurboGrafx 16 down to the point where you could play your full console games in a handheld format.

[Griffin McElroy]

True.

[Russ Russell]

Which is.

[Griffin McElroy]

They were quick to do that. We're not discussing handhelds in this. We should make this.

[Russ Russell]

No, you're right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Also, we are not. Which is like. I feel like that I could get way fucking rowdier on that one as I think about it.

[Justin McElroy]

Maybe someday we will.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, hey, right off the top here, we're talking about the box, right? And talk about a actual challenging face off. The TurboGrafx 16 box is actually what would happen if you took gamer culture of the 1990s and you distilled it into, like, orange cardboard. Hell, it is.

[Justin McElroy]

It's really bad. It looks like. Dumped a JASA on a vcr.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. But the SEGA Master System box is one of my favorite boxes of all time.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's so fucking cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Into the black and red, like. Yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, I'm looking at. I'm talking about the graph paper one. The white box with the.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, you're doing.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, there's a Japanese.

[Justin McElroy]

You're talking about the box box. Yes. Okay. Got you. I thought you meant the box.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, well. And I think both. I think also the hardware looks like you're gonna, you know, like, launch nuclear weapons in, like, the beginning of the Cold War.

[Griffin McElroy]

There is these.

[Justin McElroy]

Look at this. SEGA Master System power base. Like, look at. It's like sleek and black. It's got this red panel with killer design. It looks like.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, it looks like a fucking Cylon Turbo TR or Cyber. I mean, Cybertruck. I forget what they're called. Are they called Turbo trucks or Cybertrucks?

[Russ Russell]

Just look in your garage and tell us.

[Griffin McElroy]

I actually prefer the Sega Mark 3 master system, which is like a white. It looks like a. I mean, it looks like a Yamaha sort of synthesizer of some sort.

[Justin McElroy]

It says computer TV game on the front, which is how you know you're gonna about to have fun.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, these both look the same.

[Justin McElroy]

All the Master systems looks better. Like all the.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Justin McElroy]

What else do we have which is more innovative in terms of features? Are you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Are we gonna sit here and pretend like we had.

[Justin McElroy]

No, but I think if we are not using the rubric at least to like structure these conversations, especially when we're.

[Russ Russell]

This helps. Especially because I don't think any of us are like that in depth. Familiar with these consoles in particular. These are some of the oldest consoles that we've got on this list.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, sure. TurboGrafx 16 is a 16 bit graphics card and the master system was 8.

[Russ Russell]

So 16 is bigger than 8.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, it's unfair.

[Russ Russell]

I think also the TurboGrafx had cards like credit cards as the games and that's pretty fucking cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's pretty sick.

[Justin McElroy]

And that's a cool feature.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. How about controllers here?

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, boy.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Right. Two things that you know you're gonna experience serious hand strain minutes after playing either of these consoles. I think that the TurboGrafx 16 comes out ahead. Both of them have that kind of NES, very simple controller look. TurboGrafx 16 has a little bit more ergonomic shape. It's not literally just a pure box, has a little curve to it on the back.

[Russ Russell]

But I guess it depends on the controller because there is a rounded version of the Master System controller. I guess it's the Mark 3 that looks a little more ergonomic.

[Griffin McElroy]

I prefer the Master System. Like this is a controller. This looks like a controller that was issued to you by some sort of government agency. This is controller and it's very minimalist. And I think it looks way better than any of the TurboGrafx ones, which is like this world's smallest buttons on the world's biggest rectangular piece of plastic.

[Russ Russell]

The TurboGrafx one looks like if like Powera was in control of like releasing the first party controllers and just sort of like farted it out.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hey, I use a Powera controller exclusively to play Nintendo Switch. And I'm not gonna sit here and let you besmirch Powera. I think this looks.

[Russ Russell]

What's the shittier peripheral example that we could use? There was one in days of yore that was like no one wanted mad cats.

[Griffin McElroy]

Mad cats did make some shit. But they also made the Guitar Hero controllers, so you can't stay too mad at them.

[Russ Russell]

Fair.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think we can just decide a winner on this one. I don't think we need to go too deep here.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Cause this one ain't beatin the next round, whatever it may be.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This is also already one of the most surreal episodes of an audio show where we just talk about buttons on.

[Justin McElroy]

A little video game machine.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know, it'll be easier once we.

[Russ Russell]

Dive into the game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You're so right. You're so right. But let's pick one here. I'm gonna say Sega Master System wins because the box is absolutely sick. The hardware itself looks beautiful, and you can plug one of those little laser zapper guns into it. Even in the early days.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, congratulations.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Love it.

[Russ Russell]

Well done. Congratulations, Sega Master System, for moving on. Now things are gonna get interesting.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, now we're in it a little spicy even.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. Okay.

[Russ Russell]

We've got Sega Saturn versus the Nintendo gamecube.

[Justin McElroy]

Dang, man.

[Russ Russell]

Griffin, do you want to sing the intro song for the Nintendo GameCube?

[Griffin McElroy]

Sure. That was actually pretty good.

[Justin McElroy]

It was really good.

[Griffin McElroy]

I didn't know I had that inside of me. It scared me a little bit deep down.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, so these are both consoles that are. I would say, you know what's nice about these, These are sort of. I feel like these both have a little bit of the black sheep stink. Huh?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

A little bit.

[Justin McElroy]

I think they.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, a lot of it.

[Justin McElroy]

Wii U is probably a little bit more of a problem child for Nintendo, but yeah, these both have a little bit of the sophomore slump, even though it's neither of their sophomore projects.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

I would say Sega Saturn was like, when it came out, a little bit ahead of the game. Right. In terms of, like, horsepower.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's.

[Griffin McElroy]

No, I mean, Sega Saturn was way ahead. Like, it had a lot of. Sega does what Nintendo, like, power under the hood. It was just.

[Russ Russell]

They could do like 3D stuff better.

[Griffin McElroy]

It was just the sort of commercial strategies behind the Sega Saturn and the catalog, which we're not discussing, failed it tremendously.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

We're also not talking about price, but if I recall correctly, I think the Sega Saturn was like, comically Expensive is that?

[Griffin McElroy]

No, it was. Right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The SEGA Saturn was very expensive. That's how Sony just undercut it with price alone. It was rushed out the door. It is, if we're talking about like features set or just like how it works, for all intents and purposes, a disaster to design for. And that is why it has been a nightmare for emulation in the past, because it was having to do things like pull power from the sound card. It is not great. And I say this as somebody who absolutely loved the SEGA Saturn when it came out.

[Griffin McElroy]

I played a SEGA Saturn once at a Blockbuster Video. I played Nights Into Dreams on a SEGA Saturn demo unit that they had there. And then I swear to God, you guys, I never touched one again. We did not own one. I don't know much about the SEGA Saturn except that they announced it and released it on the same day and put it under everybody's chairs or some shit at the press conference where they announced it to give a bunch of freebies away.

[Justin McElroy]

The look is a gimme. The look goes to GameCube. GameCube's a lovely thing to look at. That's easy.

[Griffin McElroy]

Colors, so many color options. Nintendo does it the best for me.

[Russ Russell]

There's a fucking orange one, wasn't there?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, orange one's pretty.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What. What's next?

[Justin McElroy]

Most innovative. I mean, I don't.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

GameCube, I think, pretty easily. So the reason I would say that is SEGA had a challenge here with building to the Saturn and that they just kept putting shit out. So they're like, here's the Genesis, here's the Sega CD. So we have CDs out, here's the 3, 2X. We have the power boost and 3D graphics. And then they kind of like rushed from that to the Saturn. So there was no like. It's kind of actually what I feel like has happened with the Xbox Series X from like the last console generation where there's so many little spots in between and such like a lack of a power curve that it's hard to justify what the console is.

[Russ Russell]

And you can kind of see it with the controller because the controller is like spot on. Exactly like the Genesis.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And then they had to release a new controller for Knights and Dreams, which, you know, is recognizing that. And they're kind of building the airplane mid flight.

[Justin McElroy]

Really the only stuff that you could. A lot of the point. Stuff you could point to that was like innovative about the Saturn compared to the Genesis. It is almost immediately seceded by and superseded by this Nintendo 64, which doesn't have the disk drive leaps forward that the Saturn has and the Saturn still gets its lunch eaten. So I don't even think you can make a real innovative features thing when this console that should have been completely outclassed by the Saturn like almost immediately ate its lunch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Blasted it.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. I think we're gonna talk a lot about the GameCube, but I think in this matchup specifically, it smokes the Saturn in every.

[Griffin McElroy]

The Sega Saturn controller is an abomination. It is.

[Justin McElroy]

And he touched it once, so.

[Griffin McElroy]

And I touched it one time and I still remember how bad it felt in the hands. It is. It is a. It's like holding a ciabatta loaf.

[Justin McElroy]

Congratulations to Nintendo's GameCube for your very fortunate pairing.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Cause your controller ain't great either, partner.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Speaking of fortunate pairings, I love that.

[Russ Russell]

Controller, by the way. We'll talk about it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Nintendo Wii versus the Nintendo Wii U.

[Russ Russell]

Now, tko.

[Justin McElroy]

Now hold on, now hold on.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, no, please.

[Russ Russell]

You mentioned.

[Griffin McElroy]

Let me clear my throat.

[Russ Russell]

You've mentioned one console and then you mentioned some other words that didn't sound like anything. So you mentioned the Wii. Nintendo Wii.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Uh huh.

[Russ Russell]

And then what did you say after that?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Nintendo Wii U. Yeah, that doesn't mind.

[Griffin McElroy]

Just goes to say. Here's what I mean.

[Justin McElroy]

Better let's have like a Clarence Darrow one. Just do the Atticus Finch one. One Hail Mary. I'll go to the map, see if we can sell ourselves in the Wii.

[Griffin McElroy]

U. I'll go to the fucking map for the Wii U. If you guys need a champion for that, I will be your huckleberry. There's a case.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey. Without it, we don't have the switch. It is.

[Justin McElroy]

You know what else we don't have?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's the clear path to the switch. Because what they did is they made what the switch should have been.

[Griffin McElroy]

It can't matter.

[Justin McElroy]

And then they're like, it can't matter. Right? Like it can't matter.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It can matter in like, that's how innovation works, right?

[Griffin McElroy]

Damn.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's not gonna win. Let me give it a decent funeral. I'm just trying to put out a cheese plate and you're like knocking me.

[Justin McElroy]

Over and you're like, could you draw even a loose profile of the Wii U console from memory?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. It's called a rounded rectangle. Done. Done. It's so easy. And then you want me to draw the controller? Okay, I just drew the screen on the back of your airplane seat and then I put two little knobs next to it. Congratulations.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I Say credit to Nintendo. If I could just say briefly.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Credit.

[Justin McElroy]

Credit to Nintendo. When they walked in to start planning for the Switch, they walk into the room where the Wii U is sitting, and they look at both of the components of the Wii U, and somebody in that office picks up the console part and they're like, this is the problem. This is what people hate. We gotta get rid of this. They love this thing. This is working. It's the console we have to get rid of. And everybody's like, yep, let's do it. You're right. This is the. The console's the problem.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, I mean, if you look at the box, like, the box is the Wii U controller, and then the console peeking out from behind it, like, I'm still here, I'm still doing it.

[Griffin McElroy]

There was a chapter in the history of modern gaming where second screen experiences was something that people were trying to make happen. And that moment has passed. I would say, largely speaking, Xbox got in on it with a lot of shit. Yeah. Microsoft cloud. I mean, you could also connect your phone to drop ordinances in battle. One of the battlefield games for, like.

[Russ Russell]

X Men also, the fucking DS was, like, huge.

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, that's not second screen. That is not the type of thing I'm talking about. I'm talking about, like, one play, you know, people looking at a tv, but then you also have a little pad that you can do shit on. And the Wii U, not to talk about specific games, had a lot of fucking rad applications of that. I think that it was a weird little bubble, but it was, like, a thing that I found very exciting. I really liked games that could create these neat, asymmetrical experiences in, like, a multiplayer setting. And the Wii U did that. And it was the most that. I think a major company went all in on this, like, idea that ultimately, like, the idea itself kind of collapsed in on itself, which I think is a shame, because I think that we are all using a phone while we're watching TV or playing a game or whatever. Anyways, I think it's wild that this was such a bubble.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Netflix is, I think, the heir to this idea.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, absolutely.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Netflix's gaming is, like, very interested in exactly what you're talking about.

[Justin McElroy]

I like to imagine that Griffin is standing behind a pulpit next to an open grave, and there's all these empty folding chairs in front of him. And we're, like, standing there with our shovels and our watches, like, really, we have another one to do in 20 minutes. We really gotta wrap this.

[Griffin McElroy]

You are burdened overburdened by consideration of catalog. I invite you to remove that consideration entirely and then give me an objective look.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you realize that this conversation has only been able to continue because we are not mentioning the Wii like it's behind our back like this. Like. Well, we can. Okay, hold on, wait a second.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, you mean the Wii. The thing that the Wii U could do all the same stuff as and.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Also had the little.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, the Wii U does with the Wii dope.

[Griffin McElroy]

No.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, okay. Let me first start by saying. This might have been unclear, but when I said which box looks cooler, I meant the physical console box, not like the multi box.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's too bad because I was wondering why that conversation kept rearing its head.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

In both cases, the Wii still wins. So I'm fine with that. The Wii just looks cooler.

[Russ Russell]

I actually think the box of the Wii U looks better than the box of the Wii. For what it's worth.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Like the white monolith. Just like.

[Russ Russell]

I mean, they're both white monolith. I mean, in a way, one is.

[Griffin McElroy]

Just like a little black. I gotta disagree with you here. I think the Wii looks cooler. I think the Wii hardware just the box just like a sleek cybertruck.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It doesn't get so smudgy. Yeah, the Wii U looked.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, okay, that's fair.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The screen was awful. Okay, Wii, here's the thing. Looks nice. Has the motion controls that, you know, like shook the world. It got grandma moving her booty, you know, down at the exercise place.

[Russ Russell]

You could use two candles for that shit. And it still works.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It was crazy. Incredible. It also features wise brought the virtual console to our world, which at the time was awesome. You would look forward to like the Wednesday drops of like new, new, old games. And that was so exciting.

[Griffin McElroy]

You had.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's easy to take that for granted now, but like that was huge.

[Griffin McElroy]

You had all the Mii stuff where you can make your own characters.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, that verges on talking about a game, but not quite.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But no, it's part of the ui. Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think when we talk about doing this episode, like in my mind, I feel like Nintendo is such a frontrunner in terms of what is exciting to me about gaming hardware and that they do weird shit. They do crazy, weird shit with their stuff. And sometimes it's on a hardware level, sometimes it's on like an OS level, but they're the only ones doing really, I guess Xbox did Xbox Live avatars for a while, which were not great, but I don't know, the Wii really was. Everything was channels. When you turned it on. It looked like a little tv and everything was the Wii Shop channel or the Wii News channel or.

[Justin McElroy]

That's just so cool. Okay, okay. So the box. The Wii looks cooler. Even if you want. I mean, the Wii has to be more innovative.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, we said enough nice things about the Wii. We can just acknowledge more comfortable.

[Russ Russell]

Well, but there are some interesting. There are some interesting matchups here. I'll go very quickly. Neither cool looking controller. I mean, you look like a fucking dork using the Wii U controller. Like, let's be real.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. And you look fucking so cool using a Wii remote. Yeah, Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

I was swinging the fucking master sword around.

[Justin McElroy]

You look like a future tennis person. And you did look cool playing.

[Griffin McElroy]

Can'T.

[Russ Russell]

Be on the reliability point.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, okay, fine. We wince. I just didn't.

[Russ Russell]

Wait, wait, wait. And portable. The Wii U does take portable because you could technically play the Wii U without a screen. Yeah, you could play it without a screen. Did you?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, people did. People would like bring it onto their airplane and plug it into the power source.

[Russ Russell]

You just need a power. You just need power.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You keep the console in their bag and then play on the tablet.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's great. I love that.

[Russ Russell]

It is unfortunately the least cool name ever for any console ever. So. I agree. Wins this round.

[Griffin McElroy]

Push it on.

[Russ Russell]

Never.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Next up.

[Justin McElroy]

Now we're freaking talking the blood. Let's go.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Super Nintendo. SEGA Genesis.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

This is when the console wars were wars, man. Okay, I'm getting up my reference materials here because I don't want to say anything wrong.

[Griffin McElroy]

I still feel afraid of hitting the.

[Justin McElroy]

Ground because I don't know how I feel yet. And I really like this rubric because.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't like how I feel. I don't feel.

[Griffin McElroy]

Can we go down? Can we. I feel like we are all struggling to begin talking about. I think let's lean on the rubric here. I think let's go piece by piece for it for this matchup. The titan of gaming console matchups.

[Justin McElroy]

The first one is like. Which looks cooler. They both look so cool and they're.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Two different types of cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think the Super Famicom, if we can consider that instead of the American SNES box, I think is so fucking good. It looks so rad. It's got that blue, red, yellow, green little thing.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, I agree with you, but is that part of. I mean, I guess it has to. To be for whatever reason.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I think that that's part of it.

[Justin McElroy]

Permutations. It is really good looking the that I've always loved that super Famicom color palette. But the Genesis is like sleek. Especially when they got it down to just like a square. It just looked. It looks so cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And what about like when you stack on three tracks, a Sega cd, you guys.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, get his saddlebags going.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think we got a raw dog it. I think we got a raw dog. Straight Genesis to the dome. And do not attach any peripherals to this now.

[Justin McElroy]

I know, sorry. But the expandability of the Sega Genesis is promise that came from the Nintendo side of things. That never actually delivered on the Sega delivered on that expandability and I think.

[Griffin McElroy]

And wow, did they deliver with a suite of go on hit games of what?

[Justin McElroy]

Of what?

[Griffin McElroy]

Can't talk something.

[Russ Russell]

It looked like a Jenga tower. Give it that. That's all you got.

[Justin McElroy]

Like the dumbest.

[Griffin McElroy]

Look at. Let's call look a tie.

[Justin McElroy]

I give it to Nintendo. I would give it to the snes.

[Russ Russell]

I would give it to Nintendo. I think Nintendo wins this. I think Genesis.

[Griffin McElroy]

I will say the Genesis looks like a lot of other consoles that we've looked at. So so far, just a cooler version, a little bit more character, innovative features.

[Russ Russell]

I think it's Genesis.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think so too.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, definitely.

[Justin McElroy]

How so?

[Russ Russell]

Because of all that wild fucking shit.

[Justin McElroy]

They had going Glass processing.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They would try anything.

[Griffin McElroy]

SNES had the Super FX chip, but really that was in the cartridge. I think that wasn't hardware bound snes. SNES just looked good and had a lot of stuff on it that was fun to interact with. But it wasn't the most exciting in terms of. It was not the most feature rich of gaming hardware. It really did the one thing pretty.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Good with what you said about Nintendo, Griffin. Like SNES is the contradiction, right? SNES is we did the nes, but we did it better and we did it simpler. Like they had more experimentation with the NES than they did with like the NES disc drive and all those things with Super Nintendo they kind of just knew what they wanted and they stuck to it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, that was very much like their place in the market. I feel like this is when Nintendo is the kids one. Like Nintendo's the kids one. Genesis is for Cooler. Like that's always the conversation, right? To contextualize this for our younger listeners. Like these were arguments that were had in my school. A lot of Sega or Nintendo, which one's cooler? And the subtext of those conversations is always like, well, Nintendo's little kids shit. And Sega is pretty raw and pretty cool.

[Russ Russell]

I won't talk about the games, but Sega had blood.

[Griffin McElroy]

Sega had blood on It Sega.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. I mean, yeah, we don't have policy here.

[Griffin McElroy]

So the simplicity of SNES is, I think by design and it certainly worked for them.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

When I say that the simplicity worked for them and maybe against them. Kind of what hoops I think you were getting at was not expanding on the console is why we have a PlayStation. Like, they had the opportunity to add CD functionality. They didn't. Sony was like, cool, we'll go do our own.

[Justin McElroy]

If we're talking about more. It says more innovative. And I mean, you can't say that the SNES writ large innovated and evolved like more than the Genesis.

[Griffin McElroy]

No, I would agree with that. I think I agree. Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Here's weird.

[Griffin McElroy]

We have removed the snes. We have Solomon style. Cut the hair of the SNES by not talking about its truly remarkable solid gold library of games.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, well, what can you do? Ooh, I don't like the Genesis controller. I never have six or three buttons. I've never liked holding it. I know that the ergonomics of the SNES are not good, but like just the sounds, man, I can picture, like, I think that would be. That would go SNES for that one.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think the SNES controller is pretty ergonomic. This is a controller that has.

[Justin McElroy]

They understand more about how you should grip things. Right. Like the idea that it doesn't. I mean, compared to like modern controllers, like, there is a bit more heft to the Genesis. And if you were talking about like, which is better in the hands to hold long term, it may be the Genesis because the profile is a little bit closer to like what the human hand. Yeah, exactly.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And in terms of reliability, so many Super Nintendo controllers ate shit while I was using them as a kid. So many.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, really?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. So many frayed. So many buttons got stuck. Like, I constantly had trouble with that.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's fucking ridiculous. We're still talking about this. Look at these two controllers side by side and then look at every other controller that ever came out after them and tell me which one got copied by everyone. It's fucking crazy that you guys are like, yeah, the one with 60 million fucking buttons on it that nobody knew how to use is the. Like, that's crazy. It's the SNES with a bullet.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Okay. Cooler looking controller. Still snes, I think.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Definitely.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

I mean, aesthetically, it's certainly an aesthetic choice, but yeah, I think unless you are into like how they design like motherboard boxes.

[Justin McElroy]

Reliability, I would go SNES just because if we're giving it the benefit of the doubt for its innovation, then I think the reliability of those has to be taken into account. And that whole setup, once you start it, like, once you plugged everything in, it was really one of those, like, okay, hold on, everybody. I'm turning it around. We'll see what happens.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Here comes sewer shark.

[Justin McElroy]

Something's going to come out. Yeah, it's spinning up. You can hear that baby purring.

[Russ Russell]

So the fact that the SNES was not really trying any of that stuff, except for maybe the multitap.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I think in terms of reliability.

[Russ Russell]

Like, I think that's probably true.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't think we need to get into more portable. They're basically the same.

[Russ Russell]

And I would agree.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Super Nintendo 1, I think you look.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. Super Nintendo takes this Genesis. You're dead forever.

[Justin McElroy]

All right. Hey, good try.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Miss you, childhood.

[Russ Russell]

This is another easy one.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is dirty. Y'all have done us dirty with this one.

[Justin McElroy]

They're all gonna feel bad.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This better be an easy one. If there's conflict here, I'm gonna fucking be pissed. Nintendo 64 Sega Dreamcast Dreamcast to best. Dreamcast to Best.

[Russ Russell]

We did discuss it earlier that Dreamcast is da best, but I think we need to get through and confirm.

[Griffin McElroy]

It is hard for me, guys, to lobotomize myself and not think about the N64 games I enjoy. If you look at the hardware of these two consoles, Dreamcast da Best by Spike.

[Russ Russell]

Dreamcast, yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast had the virtual memory unit, which may be the most exciting bit of gaming hardware that was dropped.

[Justin McElroy]

Exciting failed gaming hardware.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like a hot stone.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Can we actually. Can we pause? I want you to have your entire VMU moment. Dreamcast is gonna get so much talk because it is the best later on. I made the VMU for this. I would hate for you to burn your best material. I have something as filthy and shameful as the Nintendo 64 hardware, which, like, congrats. Yeah. They added Rumble Pack. They also added. Remember the little power boost that you had to put in its gut?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

I needed more memory.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, that fucking console.

[Justin McElroy]

That's so weird.

[Griffin McElroy]

That always weirded me out because it's like when you bought the Nintendo 64 and you got it home, you're like, hell, yeah. Time to play video games. And then you look down, you're like. It seems like there's a little flap here. What's under that?

[Russ Russell]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

And then it's like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it for a little while. But then when Star Fox 64. I forget which one was. No, it was Majora's mask, right. Was the last.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I thought it was Donkey Kong. It was one of the.

[Justin McElroy]

I think it was Donkey Kong had the expansion pack.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

That required. It required.

[Justin McElroy]

It was perfect. Dark, dude.

[Griffin McElroy]

So it's like, why did you guys get as well. Yeah, because you guys were always kind of planning on this. As evidenced by the fact that you did have a little hole here from the beginning. Why not put the thing in there from the beginning?

[Justin McElroy]

That. Yeah. That expansion pack is not so much a. An upgrade. It's. It's an upgrade in the sense that, like, when people get metal discs in their spine, it's an upgrade. It's like, yeah, well, that's a medical assistant device that you have there.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You need that.

[Russ Russell]

They also put it in such a prevalent spot that was like. You could not. It was like someone got a tattoo on their forehead they knew they had to make.

[Justin McElroy]

Everybody was going to need to do it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The controller is also like when you go to Chicago and somebody in a bar is like, you gotta have some malort. You haven't been to Chicago if you haven't drinking the Malort. And you're like, yeah, I mean, sure, I'm glad I did that. That was fun. We had a good time. It was not a good experience.

[Russ Russell]

Does the N64 win any of the categories of the rubric?

[Justin McElroy]

It's lucky we're not able to talk about what games look like. It's probably pretty excited about that, honestly.

[Russ Russell]

Okay. It doesn't win boxes. Cooler. It doesn't win innovative. It doesn't win comfortable controller. Certainly.

[Griffin McElroy]

Guys, this really. Dreamcasts episodes like, all of this shit is so good.

[Russ Russell]

All that stuff.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let's keep going.

[Justin McElroy]

That's not fair to N64 because it should get its day in court. The controller is one of the worst things I've ever seen and I've seen multiple car crashes. Reliability, and they break.

[Russ Russell]

Awful. Some of the worst controller.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, they break all the time. Which is more portable. Like, I don't think you'd want to bring it over to someone else could see that you had it right. It's like so embarrassing. No. Okay, this is one. Okay, this is one where I definitely have moved the Nintendo 64 to more places than I have moved any of these other consoles because of reasons that we can't discuss.

[Griffin McElroy]

But I think that's a good point in terms of reliability to a lot.

[Justin McElroy]

Of dorm rooms and dens and, you know, I haul that thing.

[Russ Russell]

I don't think it wins on reliability, no matter what, because again, those Controllers died, but portability, I don't think the fact that you had a reason to make it portable is a point in its favor.

[Justin McElroy]

For the cartridges versus the discs.

[Russ Russell]

Oh. Oh.

[Justin McElroy]

It's a lot easier chucking a bag.

[Russ Russell]

Than you don't have a fucking CD binder dog.

[Griffin McElroy]

I will say that the Dreamcast, can it have one?

[Justin McElroy]

It's like a Pyrrhic victory at best, man.

[Griffin McElroy]

No, I think that this one is fair because I think the Dreamcast disc read error was a real epidemic. So it's not fair to just only.

[Russ Russell]

I definitely had that issue as well.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Listen, Nintendo 64 had its time. We are debating whether it gets three consecutive life sentences or four, right? I don't really care. I mostly just want to get out in time for lunch.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, Dreamcast.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast's the best.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, Dreamcast is the best. Oh, boy. Okay, this is great. Grandfather versus little baby boy. NES versus Nintendo Switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. I mean, the Nintendo Switch is fucking incredible. It's so good and it does a lot of stuff no other console has ever done before. And it's.

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like someone has handed me a marker and asked me to circle the wrinkles on my nani. I don't like this feeling, but we. The feeling that we have to stand in front of the NES and just start sadly pulling out brief bricks until it. Almost like a jingle tower.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. I mean, if you talk about. I mean, in any category, guys, one of these consoles came out 50 fucking years after the other one. It's gonna win in all of them.

[Justin McElroy]

It's gonna be the shit out of. I would say that the Nintendo Entertainment System looks better than the Nintendo Switch.

[Russ Russell]

The Nintendo Switch, I would agree.

[Justin McElroy]

Very little character and is really. It's just a slimmed down Wii U at the end of the day.

[Russ Russell]

And if you throw in the dock, the dock is horrible.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, the dock.

[Griffin McElroy]

Visually speaking, the dock's not great.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay. So, yeah, it got one win.

[Griffin McElroy]

The Switch Lite, though, I think looks great, especially when you mod it, you know, But I guess if you could also modify it.

[Russ Russell]

But you know, what's not on this list is the Switch Lite.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It also. Does the Switch look different than half the emulator handhelds that come across your desk?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I don't think so. NES looks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, it's fair.

[Russ Russell]

I. Yeah, I think NES is cooler. I mean, fuck, innovated. Innovative is where things get a little tricky because we're talking about, like, popularizing home.

[Griffin McElroy]

We should explore that.

[Justin McElroy]

We should have mentioned this up front, but. And I'll just Speak for myself, I don't want to speak for you guys, but I have what could at best be described as a very limited understanding of computation, broadly speaking. So some people might be like, but what about the chip, you know, or. You know what I mean? Or like the other chip that everybody knows about. Like I, you know, I'm sure there's last processing. Yeah. There's architecture things that.

[Russ Russell]

In addition to the architecture, it's worth considering that the NES did have its own robot and its own gun switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

The gun was good. There was a really good gun and a really shitty robot.

[Russ Russell]

It also had a glove and a hoop and a. And a mat that you ran on.

[Justin McElroy]

Now wait a minute. There's a lot of things that the NES could. I mean, you're listening to a lot of different stuff. You're right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. All of it sucked. Absolute dog shit. Except for the Zapper.

[Justin McElroy]

But yeah, otherwise you have a really innovative. In terms of features.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, the switch you can play on the go or at home on it like that alone. I feel like we are pretending like that is not sort of the dream scenario for us. Having kids and traveling as much as we do is not the dream scenario.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Of video games our entire lives. It was the forever fantasy. What if my Game Boy played the games that I actually like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right. And it does it, and it does it pretty good. I mean, obviously it's aging, but it does it pretty good.

[Russ Russell]

It's just hard. Cause we were all like more or less babies when the NES came out. So the frame of reference of like what the world was like before and after, we just don't have that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't think that's really fair though, because like consoles had existed before the nes. Right. An entire boom of consoles had happened before the nes. Just because we're babies doesn't mean we don't like know what history is.

[Russ Russell]

I think we might as a baby idea.

[Justin McElroy]

I think right now we might be discounting a little bit like just because we can't talk about the specific quality of the games. What the leap forward in terms of what this looked like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

You can talk about graphics.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Graphically speaking at that time, like if you, especially if you had grown up with, with a lot of different games and, and seeing how all that evolved. Like seeing an NES was the wildest jump forward in our heads at that time. We had all seen several console generations because the Atari had had like three or four different like big releases. Right. 2600. And we thought like, wow, this is. Each one of these is A step forward. And yes, was such a massive jump in terms of like backgrounds and character fidelity and like all that stuff.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's such old man shit. But it is true. When you played the original Super Mario Brothers in, the game scrolled and you weren't locked in. The screen was mind blowing. Yeah, I think we were actually mind blowing.

[Justin McElroy]

Go back. If you have access to like some. Some ways of playing older games, whatever that may be, go play the stuff that came out the year the NES was released on Atari. Look for Atari games released in that year and then see like, where. Where things were at. Like. And even like, it is such a massive jump. It's really hard to contextualize. Especially because kind of a lot of people thought games were dead. Like, that was it. They had run their course. Like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This one's tough.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think for the conversation we're having here. For me, it is the Nintendo Switch. I feel like I'd be lying. I play it more than any other. Of all the other consoles here listed, I play it more than any of the other ones.

[Russ Russell]

And it did manifest the total sea change. I've gone back and you're right. There is an enhancement. Playing 7800 Atari versus the NES. But like, side by side, screenshot wise, it's not that different. Like, it's pretty close.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We have the rubric. I think the Switch wins the rubric. There's one other great thing that we have here. We always afford ourselves one pick that can go to the final five if we so choose. Right?

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. I don't know if it's going to be the NES though.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm just saying it could be.

[Justin McElroy]

So do you think. You think the Switch is a better name? Because I'm assuming you're using the tiebreaker, right?

[Russ Russell]

I don't. Have we even gotten to the Ty Break?

[Justin McElroy]

Let's go to the tube. I mean, you're talking about. Chris is saying it wins the rubric. So I just thought.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. So I would say which box looks cooler?

[Justin McElroy]

Nes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Nes, which was way more innovative in terms of features. Ui. Switch. I think it's Switch, which has the more comfortable controller. Switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Switch.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Switch, which has the cooler looking controller.

[Justin McElroy]

Nes.

[Russ Russell]

I think the NES is nes.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Reliability.

[Justin McElroy]

That's nes. Talk to me about Joy Con Drift.

[Griffin McElroy]

Wait, no, no, no. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Justin McElroy]

Talk to me about Joy Con Drift. Joy Con Drift.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How many times do you have to die on the drift?

[Justin McElroy]

Joycon Drift, though I want to stay focused on Joy Con Drift.

[Griffin McElroy]

Joy Con Drift versus every game failing eventually between those two Joy Con Drift versus every game eventually fails and stops working.

[Justin McElroy]

And one is a portable concept.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

To recap, we are at three to two. Switch has three. NES has two. Question six. Which is more portable, right?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that's a slam dunk. Out of curiosity, which do you guys think is the cooler name?

[Griffin McElroy]

Nintendo Entertainment? It's the best, right?

[Justin McElroy]

It's fucking Nintendo Serial System in terms of great names for stuff.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, Rest in peace. Nintendo NES. Next matchup, we have the original Xbox versus the Xbox. Xbox 360.

[Griffin McElroy]

Look, if we're talking, if this conversation is I think largely spearheaded by aesthetics, I think that the Xbox doesn't look very good.

[Russ Russell]

I think it's one of the ugliest things.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm trying to be nice. I think it looks not great. I don't think it's Microsoft's best looking piece of hardware. I think the original controller was a mistake.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Was a mistake on every abomination.

[Griffin McElroy]

Was it the Duke? Was the Duke. The big one Duke.

[Russ Russell]

The Duke was the first one. Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

It was so bad. It was sucked so bad to hold that controller.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It was. It was like the Dreamcast controller without any of the cool features. So if you got like that shape but none of the cool features.

[Justin McElroy]

It bums me out that so many people listening to this never held one of these things because you think it's. People are blowing it out of proportion. But the first time you held that thing, it really was. Most people's reaction was like, oh, not. I mean not this. Right? It can't be this size. Certainly not this.

[Griffin McElroy]

I remember Juice got an Xbox and was staying in an apartment. Was living in an apartment at the time. And I came to stay and you had a. You had not Oblivion. Morrowind. You had Morrowind on there. And I was like, all right, cool. We're not counting this. This is not part of the conversation. This is purely anecdotal. But as soon as I picked up the controller I was like, oh. Oh. I was really looking forward to spending time with Morrowind, but this sucks so fucking bad to interact with. But I also, I recognize its place in history and it's not like the Xbox360. The box itself is like gorgeous or anything.

[Justin McElroy]

But it's nice.

[Russ Russell]

That's nice.

[Griffin McElroy]

But I do think if we are doing.

[Justin McElroy]

Has there been a better console Design since the 360?

[Russ Russell]

Since probably the switch.

[Justin McElroy]

But like that's a long time.

[Griffin McElroy]

I guess it depends what years of. You could switch the face plate out of the 360. Listen, I think 360 is going to beat the shit out of the Xbox.

[Justin McElroy]

There was. At least with the 360, though I got to give credit for it is one of the only consoles that I could think of where I know there was a design philosophy because they talked.

[Griffin McElroy]

About it like, they talked about the.

[Justin McElroy]

Inhale and like, there was thought put into it. Like a lot of 360 decisions, they're kind of off the wall. But like, I think it's a really fun design.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And yeah, I will say for the original Xbox, a few things in its favor. Played DVDs, CDs, basically was trying to be a computer. It kind of set the pace for where video game consoles went. Where they're like, we're going to use parts that are inside computers. We're going to use a graphic card as well, though. PlayStation was very much into like, we're going to make cell processing or like any of.

[Russ Russell]

But it could play DVDs.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes.

[Russ Russell]

I'm just saying as an innovative point.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sorry, when I say CDs, DVDs, and all the PC parts that it is building, where PlayStation was like a home entertainment system, for lack of a better word, a Sony home entertainment system. Xbox, I think, was building towards. Even at this early stage, this, like, your video game console is more like a PC. And I think that's interesting. And I think that is where video game consoles ended up going. Ironically, I think there were times where Microsoft ran away from that own internal direction. But also it is kind of like the heir to the Dreamcast. It is Xbox Live. It has the ethernet port.

[Russ Russell]

It has features that I think in terms of our rubric specifically, there is only one of the six starting rubrics that the original Xbox wins, and that is reliability. And that is only because the Xbox 360 failed at such great numbers.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Profound.

[Russ Russell]

It just wins by default.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's fine. I'm fine with us going 360 and talking about it more in the next round that.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, sorry. If it made it to the tiebreaker, it would also win. Which name is cooler?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, the X360 is like a cool stunt you can do. They've been trying to recapture the magic of Xbox360 as a name.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, no, I like Xbox.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Really?

[Russ Russell]

I think that's cooler than Xbox360.

[Justin McElroy]

Xbox360 is stupid and it was a bad name and everybody made fun of it. You're too young to remember. Maybe. I don't know.

[Griffin McElroy]

It sounds like something you would do on a vert ramp, and I like that. I guess I'm Street Finch style.

[Justin McElroy]

They're both pretty good.

[Russ Russell]

It's only. And I think they only named it that because they realized they'd be going up against the PlayStation 2 and they wanted a bigger.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, well. Or they were trying to keep pace with the PlayStation 3. They wanted you to go to. Yes, it's a great. So funny in that term. It is so funny. The only thing that would've been funnier is calling it the Xbox 3. There is no law against that. They could still do it actually. If they dropped the three, can you imagine how excited everybody would be?

[Russ Russell]

I mean, the next console was called the Xbox One, so they were fucking running off the rail.

[Justin McElroy]

I know. But at this point they could make an argument that the next one is because they restarted this franchise and Xbox One.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, we have our. Okay, so 360 takes that one. Well done. And then we are a final matchup which is PlayStation 1 versus PlayStation 2. Spicy.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, PlayStation. PlayStation 1 looks better, but PlayStation 2 looks really, I think, kind of cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

The slimline PS2 is one of my favorite pieces of gaming hardware. That thing that everything was so big. Everything disc based was so fucking big. And the slimline PS2 was like, what's the thickness? I gotta look this up. I gotta look up the thickness on this bad boy. Cause it was unreal.

[Russ Russell]

Have you guys seen though the mini PS1?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes, I have one.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, you know that cute little guy with a round. I think that thing is fucking gorgeous.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, it's.

[Griffin McElroy]

The PlayStation 2 Slim. Had a height of 1.1 inches. I mean fucking.

[Justin McElroy]

It's wild.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, really small.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, let's talk about PlayStation 1 just coming into existence that Sony is, you know, co developing an idea for something like this with Nintendo. Doesn't work out and they're like, we're just gonna go do our own damn thing. Sony, who is not even in the video game scene at this point, and they. And they just leap in with this right off the bat. And they leap in with the dualshock that. Yeah, it doesn't have. It doesn't have the joysticks. But it's effectively.

[Russ Russell]

It does eventually.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It does eventually. And it's the same design that they have been using up until the PS5 when they kind of finally changed away from it. Pretty bold.

[Russ Russell]

Did they. Were they first or was Nintendo first on the analog stick? I think it was Nintendo, right?

[Griffin McElroy]

Nintendo was first with I think the 360 analog or the.

[Russ Russell]

Or the 64.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

PlayStation was first with the dual analog sticks. And you can play ape Escape with it, which we won't talk about.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's fucking wild how there was a period of such rapid evolution of like, the fundamental ways that you interact with video games. Like when the dual stick came out on the PlayStation 1, I remember being like, oh, so I can finally move and look around. I can move and look around at the same time. That kicks ass. That's actually a good thing.

[Russ Russell]

I have to use, like, C button.

[Justin McElroy]

There's definitely a. I think that this period that we're talking about is the period where we are trying to reimagine everything about interacting with video games because of the switch to three dimensions. Right. Your pad makes perfect sense in two dimensions. And what you're seeing a lot of the flailing, I think at this point is like, okay, how do we make it okay to interact with this world? What is the language that makes the most sense? Because you have so many more things to consider. I mean, infinitely more in a certain sense, because you've expanded like the planes in which you're operating.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. So Nintendo went ahead and made and took a bunch of peyote and then like kind of drew something on a squiggle board.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. PlayStation, meanwhile, didn't do them. And then looked around like, oh, no, this is not working. This is not how you interact with 3D worlds. We need something else. So mid console, they. They put out the.

[Russ Russell]

And. And ended up doing it better than Nintendo by quite a bit.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

So. Okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's tough, man. This is the hardest category for me to remove the history of it from because, I mean, the cartridge two disc leap was outrageous.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. I think the PlayStation 1 is more innovative than the PlayStation 2. The PlayStation 2, obviously, software wise, which we're not talking about. Incredible.

[Griffin McElroy]

But like, interface wise, I think features. You cannot undersell the interface of the PlayStation 2. That's the first one I remember being like, oh, okay. So I manage all of the. I manage everything through this. Right. Like, I manage my memory card data through this. I manage. Did the PlayStation 1 have this?

[Justin McElroy]

You should look at the PlayStation before you lay too many more plaudits on the PS2 UI. You should look up a video of the PlayStation 1 AI. Because a lot of the stuff that you are talking about is baked in.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah. You can manage like memory cards and stuff because that's how, you know, you think about Metal Gear Solid one.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, my God, this looks so rough though, guys. Well, the PlayStation 1 UI.

[Justin McElroy]

The PlayStation 1 for the PlayStation 2. Griffin.

[Griffin McElroy]

I. I think if when I watch videos of the PlayStation 2 UI, which I do frequently.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks like. It looks. It's like an official PlayStation magazine fell down a well of stairs.

[Griffin McElroy]

Demo disc. Yeah. But you also could watch DVDs on the PS2. It was like a multimedia machine and it was pitched as such.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The DVD thing is so huge because it was cheaper than most DVD players at the time.

[Justin McElroy]

That's true.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Which one made it the default best DVD player you could get. Plus how many people did it bring into video games just because they bought it just to have a DVD player and they're like, oh, now I can play.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't. I don't think I would ever be as pumped as I was for a new console as I was when we got the PlayStation 2 at Christmas. Because that was also our first DVD player at our house. And like, yeah, some of the biggest fights that we had, like the time on that thing was strictly managed because we were all wanting to use it all the time. It was such a.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You could watch the Matrix now.

[Justin McElroy]

You could watch the matrix on it.

[Griffin McElroy]

You could also connect to the Internet if you had the ethernet adapter.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You could also use the eyetoy and the buzz controller.

[Justin McElroy]

PlayStation 2 had a lot of good. I think this is PlayStation 2, guys. Yeah, but I mean, did we go.

[Russ Russell]

I would give it. Yeah, I would give it to PlayStation 2. I still think the box is cooler.

[Griffin McElroy]

Or the PS4 1.1 inches tall.

[Justin McElroy]

The PlayStation 1 does have a cooler box.

[Russ Russell]

Little. Doesn't mean it's cooler.

[Justin McElroy]

PlayStation 1 has a cooler looking box.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, so they're tied. And then we go to most comfortable controller, which is tied, I guess.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, it's a two. The two does round the edges. It's a little bit more ergonomic.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, right. The three was the one that was the worst.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And also I believe PlayStation 1 took a while to get all four top buttons. I think it was just two top buttons.

[Justin McElroy]

No, they always had. Those are two. It was the dual six they didn't have. I'm pretty sure they always had L1.

[Russ Russell]

And R. I think that's right. So. So okay, so we're going to cooler looking controller. It's really down to. Do you like the gray or the black? Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

At that point, I mean you could get. So there was a multitude of colors for each of it. We're splitting hairs talking about the differences of the controllers between these two consoles.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, they're very close. Do we have any insight on the. Oh, reliability. Someone was talking about games not running unless there was upside down. Right.

[Justin McElroy]

I know that that was a thing I mean definitely there was less. They were less reliable. Like PlayStation 1 definitely had a lot more disc read errors, et cetera, et cetera.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And PlayStation 1 died off much faster. Like my old PlayStation 1. It had a very clear shelf life for my PS2. I still have dug it out and it still works.

[Russ Russell]

And then on the portability front, are we counting the little one inch baby? I guess it was an offshoot.

[Griffin McElroy]

But yeah, I mean I definitely brought the PS2 with me two places. Like if I would go to a friend's house to play burnout, I would bring it with me because it was so fucking little and it was no problem at all.

[Russ Russell]

Seems very close. It seems like we might.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So there's one problem with portability and it's that the PlayStation Portable had a screen that you could attach to it that.

[Justin McElroy]

That.

[Russ Russell]

Which. Wait, the PlayStation? The original PlayStation?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, the PlayStation Portable. So PlayStation 1 Portable.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, well, the PlayStation Portable is a PSP, which is.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh no, sorry. I mean the, whatever. The smaller version of it, whatever that was called the PS1.

[Russ Russell]

It was called the PS1.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Spelled out one that there was a, like a hatch screen that you could put on top.

[Griffin McElroy]

Was this a first party device?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm pretty sure it was.

[Justin McElroy]

Right, yeah, 100% yeah. Plugged into the back of the PS1 and it flipped up and it was. Look at it.

[Russ Russell]

It seems pretty fucking portable to me. You don't even need tv.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, it was real cool.

[Russ Russell]

I think it probably takes the edge on portability. With that in mind, I am fine with that.

[Griffin McElroy]

They are the same. Yeah. Let's talk about, what's a cooler name? PlayStation or PlayStation 2?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

PlayStation 2 maybe.

[Russ Russell]

Now let me stop you right there. Trice is good, although it's twice as good. Hold on, you've got. Let's look at the abbreviations for a second. PS2 or PSX?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Piss X?

[Russ Russell]

I didn't say piss X, I said.

[Griffin McElroy]

PS also, I don't. I think Piss X is something we came up with recently as a way to truncate that. I don't think you.

[Justin McElroy]

I am not going to have this discussion with you guys. It's pissing me off. PlayStation is a name of a box. Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, the Wii, the Saturn Genesis, Mega drive. That's something. PlayStation 2 ruined it for everybody because they put a number on there and then it's like. And then everybody has to do the numbers thing. You couldn't just have these cool conversations about Saturn's and, and Ultra 64, Pluto's. Pluto's and all that.

[Griffin McElroy]

Damn. This is actually a really good point that I've never consider.

[Russ Russell]

I like that point.

[Griffin McElroy]

I did, too. All right, let's do a PS1 then.

[Justin McElroy]

PlayStation is a. PlayStation's a very good poll.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like, it's a very good.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, yeah. Branding wise. Crushed. I think. I think PlayStation 1 somehow takes this.

[Justin McElroy]

Congratulations, PlayStation 1, you did it.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, we are moving on to round two, and we've got some matchups coming at you. We're gonna start with a BV1 Xbox360 versus PlayStation 1.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm gonna open this in a separate tab in another tab so I don't have to keep scrolling all the way back up to the rubric to reference it.

[Griffin McElroy]

All right, 360 versus PlayStation 1.

[Russ Russell]

Yes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Guys, the 360 did so much shit. I feel like the 360 came out when I started to really play a lot of fucking games. A lot. And it had new ways of getting those games with, like, the Xbox Live Arcade and playing those games online from the jump with all my buddies. Like, that's, that's, that's Halcyon Days level shit for me. So that's. That's tough to argue.

[Russ Russell]

I think the 360 does very well in the matchup because I think it definitely looks cooler. I think we can all agree on that. It's more innovative in terms of features. Love the controller.

[Griffin McElroy]

Love the controller.

[Russ Russell]

The controller is fantastic. It looks great. It's comfortable to hold. Reliability, not so much. Probably loses the original PlayStation on reliability and probably loses on portability. But the first, those two are also.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hand in hand, because if you moved your Xbox 360 around in the wrong way, shut down, it broke forever.

[Russ Russell]

Right. But I think it takes the first four, which means it's. It's got the majority of the rubric there, and I think it's a very strong pick. As much as I love the PlayStation, as we just established, I want to.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Give Griffin his time to talk about the VMU again. But here we are once again with a showdown where Dreamcast is the best. There's not a conversation to be had here. The SEGA Master System versus the Dreamcast. I think.

[Griffin McElroy]

Get this fucking bullshit off my plate. Get this off.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think the defense of the VMU is yet to come. We'll get to it.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm on the edge of my seat, but for the moment, Dreamcast the best.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, Dreamcast is the best. And we will get down to the point of where we're discussing the final five. And I think at that point, the VMU Treatise will be last.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm gonna fucking do this.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay. The GameCube versus the Nintendo Wii. Fun fact. The Nintendo Wii is better in practically every way. I had a good time humoring y'all. As if the gamecube was ever a cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Gamecube's trash.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know how the worst.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't know how the worst console of all time made it to a list of the best ones. It's impossible. The thing stinks. I hate the game. Those fiddly little discs. Keep them. This is a man's hand. I need a man's disc.

[Russ Russell]

I like strong disagree on almost every.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wow. Okay.

[Russ Russell]

Which box looks cooler? The fucking gamecube is maybe the best console.

[Justin McElroy]

That's not even closed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay. Okay, okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

And also when you turn on the Wii, I mean, you did get pretty good music. You didn't get the. That one wasn't as good.

[Justin McElroy]

I would say the GameCube is actually like the last hurrah for fun Nintendo design. Like, it all became for good reason. I think it became a lot more function centric after that because so much of it was interacted with and like, couldn't just be an aesthetic thing.

[Russ Russell]

But yeah, okay. Innovative. I definitely agree that the Wii takes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Russ Russell]

Easy. Which has the more comfortable controller. I will die on this hill. It is definitely the game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You're are.

[Griffin McElroy]

You could not be more wrong then.

[Justin McElroy]

By the way, bud. Let's just step away. Let's figure this out.

[Griffin McElroy]

I know what it is.

[Russ Russell]

I love. I love holding the GameCube controller. It fits perfectly in my hands. All the buttons are easily accessible. They have crazy shapes. So you don't need to look down to remember what your thumb is resting on. I love that controller. It would win for me for both more comfortable and cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know when they're like 9 out of 10 dentists recommend you brush your teeth. You're the one dentist who's over here. Like, just let it. Let the grime come off the game.

[Griffin McElroy]

You before.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You're so wrong.

[Justin McElroy]

Russ, this is the most problematic thing I've ever heard you say. And I've known you for a long time.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Anybody could play the Nintendo Wii. Anybody. It was the most intuitive. What do you mean? It has nothing to do with it.

[Russ Russell]

Just because people can play it. That is not the rubric. It's whether it's comfortable to hold.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay. Okay. This is an interesting wrinkle that I'm willing to. I don't. I don't.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Because this one did one of these.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hold on.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. I Think I said, while you're playing.

[Russ Russell]

Tennis, it's fine to hold. Try playing fucking Excite Truck and see how you want to hold that control.

[Justin McElroy]

Even make the argument, guys, that I was a game journalist in 8,07 and like, this is one of the consoles that came with the surgeon General's warning for don't hug this guy in the wrong way. You're gonna shatter your tv. Don't. I don't know if most comfortable it was maybe also propulsive.

[Griffin McElroy]

Too comfortable to hold that. You start to fucking lose your focus a little bit.

[Justin McElroy]

They gave you a strap to hold it better.

[Russ Russell]

No, not only not just a strap, a rubberized Honda. They needed to.

[Griffin McElroy]

I did love having a little jimmy.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Cap for my job because you got me with the wording. And I feel like you planted the seed months ago that you've all been building up to knowing that this moment would happen. Because if the question was, which is the better controller? Wii with a bullet. But if the question is most comfortable controller, then like, yeah, you're right. They put the thing in a damn condom because it was like so uncomfortable to hold a candy bar for a video game controller.

[Russ Russell]

And on the cooler looking front. Have you seen the movie Existence?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It looks like.

[Griffin McElroy]

I was just thinking about existence.

[Russ Russell]

The GameCube controller looks like the fucking Existence controller.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm sorry, we're all having a lot of fun here, but the GameCube controller can't have like that. That. That is one of the worst things you could look at. No.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, well, let's see. So if the game we say that the. The GameCube controller takes one. The Wii takes the features and UI. The GameCube controller takes more comfortable. GameCube controller gets cooler. On the reliability front, probably the Wii is more reliable. Is that fair to say?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wii still works today?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I think Wii is pretty.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You could use your candles.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, that's fine.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm sorry, guys. Sorry. We gotta go back. No, I'm sorry, Russ, I can't. But I was trying to. You really? But like, I'm sorry. The first thing is I came up with the comfortable controller thing and then I'm thinking, what if I go to heaven? And God's like, if you love it so much, hold it forever. I'm like, no, I was kidding. To torment Russ. I didn't mean it. It's a bad controller. That is definitely not the most more comfortable than the Wii. Than the Wii controller. I'm sorry. No, I can't.

[Griffin McElroy]

I will say when you're holding the Wii controller, if you're playing something for a long time. You have to do this a lot. So it's like the controller itself may be good to hold, but you do have to flail in order to operate.

[Russ Russell]

This is just like the games that weren't motion games. That controller fucking sucked. It was like holding the NES controller worse even because it had that divot for where the trigger was.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Can we do like a survivor vote to like, see where we're at here?

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, I vote we. We.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, I disagree.

[Griffin McElroy]

You're heard.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, let me do a. That felt unfair to you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Wait a second.

[Justin McElroy]

Let me do a rubric real quick. Which looks like.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, your rubric.

[Justin McElroy]

The GameCube. GameCube more innovative in terms of features. Wii more comfortable controller. Wii cooler looking controller.

[Russ Russell]

Think about it.

[Justin McElroy]

I just talked about how much I hated it. Russ, that's not a. I was trying to see if you were listening. No, that's definitely not GameC. So that's Wii reliability. Okay, give it to GameCube. Why? Okay.

[Russ Russell]

Oh, we've got one more.

[Justin McElroy]

Motion tracking and like having to fix the light bar.

[Russ Russell]

Totally agree. And now we've got another rubric to discuss.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Which is more portable. GameCube. So it comes down to which game is cooler. And there's no fucking way you're gonna say GameCube is cooler than Wii.

[Justin McElroy]

Hold on.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Iconic.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hold on. Actually, this is tough actually, for me, Chris. Actually, Chris. This is tough for me, actually, Chris. I'm realizing with Horror this was 20.

[Russ Russell]

Minutes ago that I realized this is how it was gonna play out. And I'm so glad gamecube is a.

[Justin McElroy]

Much better name than we. Gamecube kicks ass.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's such a fucking cool name for a thing, the GameCube. We'd retire. We'll settle this in the GameCube. It's so fucking good.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, so there you go. GameCube wins.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Honestly, what's worse than GameCube winning is your little fucking plan coming into place.

[Justin McElroy]

He laid it out from the beginning. He said, just so you know. He gave us all the clues. He said, just so you know, that is winning most portable. He gave it to us.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, that's true.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, so the GameCube takes it. We're down to the final matchup, which is Super NES versus Nintendo Switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, I think the SNES kind of limped into its victory because its hardware is not very exciting and it sort of has a much stronger catalog of games.

[Justin McElroy]

But if it's a stranger up and down in the rubric, if the Rubric is a straight up and down. Then we are saying that each of those is equally important. So are we really saying we value which is the most portable against which is the most innovative in terms of.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Remember the rubric is to get us talking. We do have the ability to.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't like the gamecube. I really don't feel good about the gamecube in this.

[Russ Russell]

Too late.

[Griffin McElroy]

The rubric made.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Don't worry. I think the Wii is going to come back top five.

[Justin McElroy]

All right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

I would agree that the NES based on the rubric will struggle because we are not talking about games and everything else about the nes. Super nes, I should say it's pretty.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I want to get to that. I want to get to the top five. Then let's do this. Like why waste our time? The Nintendo Switch wins and me. I think the five that we're gonna talk about here are the four winners. The Xbox 360, the Sega Dreamcast, the Nintendo Gamecube and the Nintendo Switch. And then I think the Nintendo Wii is the other entry that will be going into the top five.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know about that.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, versus what? What are you thinking, Griff? Because we should figure this out before.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We versus the original nes. Like what would it be?

[Griffin McElroy]

Maybe just the nes.

[Russ Russell]

NES was the only other one that I think had like a real competition shot at making it to the top five.

[Justin McElroy]

Man, I don't think.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think a PlayStation. Having a PlayStation product in the top five makes sense to me. And I think PS1, we could probably make the argument for.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh man, I know what you're saying. But like Nintendo Wii changed. Like the innovation of the Nintendo Wii, we don't have a rubric for this part. So it's more about gut. But like that chain that was foundational, I mean that shook everything.

[Russ Russell]

Does it impact anything that it was like that foundation was later reverted and everyone realized it was a big mistake.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't think it was because it got people playing. I think a huge challenge with video games at that time was just getting people to try them. And I think in the same way that like touch based games on iPhones brought a lot of people into the circle, you need that space. You need the kind of like learning area. And yeah, we don't need that as much anymore because now it's more common for everybody to play.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, but don't. If you're gonna make that argument. Doesn't the NES do that better?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, actually I don't think it does. Maybe the Super Nintendo, but like The NES was not the barn burner that brought people into video games. Compared to even something like Pac man or Pong, like, it was good. It saved a video game industry that was spiraling out of, you know, the full collapse. But I don't think it was, like, the system that. That got us to where we need to be.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, that's fair.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think I'd be fine pulling up on it. It was the pilot, you know, saving the airplane from crashing into the ground.

[Russ Russell]

I'd be fine putting the Wii at 5.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, I think that's a good. I think this is a sound argument.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

All right, you're only saying that because you know that that means the GameCube's gonna get higher. I see exactly what you're doing. What you did is you.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, GameCube is five. I'm not saying the Wii is fake.

[Griffin McElroy]

Say that the GameCube beats the Wii in one round. And then in the very next round, say that the Wii is better than the GameCube. That's unhinged. That's unhinged behavior.

[Justin McElroy]

You're right. That's a bridge too far. Even for the besties, it's a bit much.

[Russ Russell]

Okay, we is five. What other ones are GameCube?

[Griffin McElroy]

Four.

[Justin McElroy]

GameCube is four.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You had a good run.

[Russ Russell]

Good job, buddy. I love you.

[Justin McElroy]

Dreamcast. Little purple boy. Dreamcast in at one.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think Xbox363. And now we can have the real conversation, which is Switch versus Dreamcast. I actually come in towards this. Really?

[Griffin McElroy]

I disagree. Really? I think. I love the Switch. I think Switch 3, Xbox 362. Dreamcast to best.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Can you just tell us why? Dreamcast to best. Because we've been dancing around it this whole episode, and it needs its time.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast. You know that scene in Alien when Alien shows up and he's like, oh, fuck, how is this guy gonna kill this guy? And he opens his mouth like, oh, he's gonna eat him. But then another, smaller alien comes out of the alien's mouth to eat them. That's what it was like the first time I popped the virtual memory unit out and was like, wait a minute. This game console just shit out a small game console that I can take with me to school to feed my.

[Justin McElroy]

If you didn't know, it was a memory card that had a tiny screen and even tinier buttons on it.

[Griffin McElroy]

And it was incredible. You would be playing Shenmue and you would fucking see a prompt on the screen that's like, bb, B, B, B, press B. But you would also See it on your vmu if you were looking down at your controller for some reason. And that's fucking great. That's killing.

[Russ Russell]

Do we knock it at all for the fact that even though it was basically a mandatory attachment to your console, it was not included in the box?

[Griffin McElroy]

I think it was included in the box eventually. No.

[Russ Russell]

I think there might have been a bundle, but by default it's a little game console.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's not gonna be free.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, that can't.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Also, it's still part of it. We've been including things that are outside of the box itself for a while here.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's such a wild thing to have.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It did so much more too, because like Griffin, it had multiplayer. You could plug a VMU into another.

[Russ Russell]

Vmu, like an avatar, like a gigapad.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Just like in Avatar's gigapet.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you guys think the Dreamcast is the best looking video game console of all time?

[Griffin McElroy]

I think it looks so cool. I think it looks so cool.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks so cool that it's round and square.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's round and square at the same time. How's that possible?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

In the logo.

[Justin McElroy]

It's round and square and then it's got a giant triangle on it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, how many video game consoles have a logo that is not like a lettermark that you remember?

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, the Super Famicom for sure. That might be it. That might be it.

[Justin McElroy]

So I think. And the controller looks great. I will say though, guys, the Dreamcast controller to hold. Not a blast, not a real treat to you.

[Russ Russell]

And if you don't have a VMU because you didn't buy one, it does look very shitty to just have a hole in your.

[Griffin McElroy]

The triggers are also pretty rotten on the Dreamcast controller.

[Justin McElroy]

The squeakiness of these triggers, they would.

[Russ Russell]

Get very squeaky over time and again. Even though I acknowledge, I guess we're putting it up against what the Switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Switch and the360.

[Russ Russell]

We're talking about three examples of very unreliable consoles because each one of them either a disc read error or stick drift or the three lights on the front of your Xbox 360. So I guess it's a wash at that point.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

The controller kind of fails the Dreamcast a bit.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Other things for the Dreamcast here though, built with dual booting capacity for Windows. So if we're talking about.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, but you would have to be a super fucking huge dork to do that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

Like how big of a dork would you.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, the Dreamcast was the first. I get it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I was a dork you don't have to say it out loud.

[Griffin McElroy]

The Dreamcast was the first console I got online to play. Phantasy Star Online. Yes. And that was pretty easy to do.

[Justin McElroy]

The first game I played online was NFL 2K.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Russell]

Known sports guy.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Also, you could get an adapter to go beyond 56k when you wanted to go online.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's true. 50 seconds if you want to play with the big boys. The interface also, if that is something you care about, is kind of iconic. I feel like anytime you had to manage your data through the Dreamcast interface, it was always. I don't know, it had such. That is such a vibe to me of the era.

[Russ Russell]

I mean, I think the 360 interface is like. That's the gold standard of this era.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I guess I look at it as Dreamcast in terms of innovation. Setting the template does a little bit of everything. It gets people online before that is common. It gets them online fast, which was even more unusual. Its online features were like, quite robust in terms of. It's hard not to talk about the games here, but something like Phantasy Star Online having literally translation features in it is. I don't know. Okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

I can't consider that the Switch.

[Russ Russell]

Ignoring that the Switch is a more innovative console by like a fucking mile.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think in terms of just. Yes, it's a portable thing, but I think. I think it's like really hard to ignore the fact that the Dreamcast literally had Windows built into it and made it so you could develop for it. That is a huge thing. I get it. It's not as like. It's not as sexy.

[Russ Russell]

Forget that. Like, what percentage of people actually fucking did that?

[Justin McElroy]

Nobody. Nobody ever did.

[Russ Russell]

Wrong.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What do you mean?

[Russ Russell]

I think. I think, Ooh, God.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let's do the rubric. I know that the Switch is gonna win here, which is weird, but I wanna just go through the rubric. So I.

[Griffin McElroy]

Since Dreamcast to best, I'm still firmly in camp. Dreamcast to best. I think it's fine. I'm a sucker for the history of the And Dreamcast changed fucking everything. And then it failed catastrophically in doing so. It died for our sins so that it walked and fell over and died so that other consoles could run one of its features.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You could just pirate all of the games if you wanted.

[Griffin McElroy]

I pirated every fucking game on the Dreamcast.

[Justin McElroy]

Suzy.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Nobody talks about that feature.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Which box looks cooler? Congratulations. Dreamcast.

[Russ Russell]

Dreamcast, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Which is more innovative in terms of features? You like the Switch?

[Russ Russell]

Let's give it to the Switch for.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Now which has a more comfortable control. The Dreamcast.

[Russ Russell]

Ironically, I think we just discussed how it was it and it was a.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Misery to hold none of us Joy Cons.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean if you now if you are saying that the I really. Okay, now I really hate using the Joy Cons. I really hate using the Joy Cons.

[Russ Russell]

What about Pro Controller? Do we count that?

[Justin McElroy]

I mean that's you gotta pay extra. I mean we've been considering that for.

[Griffin McElroy]

Everything else and I love. I think the Pro Controller is pretty solid.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, the Pro Controller is.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think the Switch beats the Dreamcast. Think about those triggers, guys. It sucks.

[Russ Russell]

So yeah on comfort I'll give it to him.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Russ Russell]

I think cooler controller. Dreamcast. I'm fine with that. Reliability. They're all pretty shitty in different ways.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And which is more portable. Switch.

[Russ Russell]

Switch. I think the Switch wins. I think Dreamcast is not the best.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We don't have to be married to the rubric though. Again, it is a startup.

[Russ Russell]

I put a ring on it.

[Griffin McElroy]

So why are we giving reliability to the Switch and not Dreams?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We're not giving it to anybody.

[Russ Russell]

Yeah, it's a rock.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, but can you. So it's just a tie. It's like doesn't count. But what if it did? Right. Just because like is there any way for us to quantify that it sucks that we can't.

[Griffin McElroy]

That we're removing one of the rubrics in the final consideration.

[Russ Russell]

We can keep it. And let's look the reliability issues. When the Xbox 360 fails, you just don't have a console. When the Dreamcast fails, you can't play certain discs.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You can play. You have to put a dictionary on.

[Russ Russell]

Top of the on when the Nintendo 64. When the Nintendo Switch fails. Sometimes link runs around when you don't want it to run around.

[Griffin McElroy]

I guess you're saying that yes, it is less catastrophic these failures. Yeah. I don't hear a lot about just switches just not fucking working anymore. Yeah, I'm sure that it happens. But yeah, I guess. Yeah, I think reliability I think in that case does go to Switch. Dammit.

[Russ Russell]

I think Dreamcast is a more interesting winner. But I think if we're we the scientists that we are, we need to look at the rubric.

[Griffin McElroy]

I, I, I agree.

[Justin McElroy]

I would make. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's, I think it's a Switch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Switch to best Switch the best. All right.

[Russ Russell]

Dreamcast not the best.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dreamcast.

[Justin McElroy]

I still feel pretty certain. Dreamcast the best. So I don't know where to go from Here, guys, because I. The way I see a Dreamcast, the best.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, do we wanna relitigate it from the jump again and see if we get the same result?

[Justin McElroy]

Let's start back at the beginning. Let's start back at the beginning with.

[Griffin McElroy]

Fast fool or Dreamcast, which is more innovative in terms of UI and features. Dreamcast, it has the vmu, which has the more comfortable controller.

[Russ Russell]

The fucking Switch was a portable. That was the Switch. Cause it transformed portability in gaming consoles.

[Griffin McElroy]

So did the fucking vmu. The VMU did that first.

[Justin McElroy]

You got a lot of vmu. Credit a follower. There'd been a lot of things like the vmus since that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's true, Nick.

[Russ Russell]

Fucking counting the Game Boy.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Switch doesn't even happen if. Oh, shit. Because Sega said, what if it was a console you could play at home and on the go? And Nintendo was like, yeah, we'll steal.

[Griffin McElroy]

That idea in 20 years.

[Russ Russell]

Wow. Okay, fair enough.

[Griffin McElroy]

Awesome.

[Russ Russell]

You know what? Guess what, guys? Dreamcast.

[Justin McElroy]

I knew it.

[Russ Russell]

I knew it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I knew it.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you, Matthias. You did it again. My biases have been confirmed. Thank you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Listen, if you're feeling sore about that, Nintendo's got three fucking consoles in the top five.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And also Sega doesn't even get to make these anymore. So, like, let us have a moment for them. Let them have fun.

[Justin McElroy]

It's the only context in which. I mean, it does kind of feel like in hindsight, that we created. Created a contest that only the Dreamcast could have won.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

But congratulations to Dreamcast. Thanks to you for listening. We appreciate you. We have run very long here, so let's wrap up quickly and just say thank you so much for your support. I hope you're pleased with the outcome. All right, that's gonna do it for us at the Besties. Until next time. Be sure to join us again next month for the besties. Because should the world's best friends pick the world's best games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sa.