Dragon Age: The Veilguard Wants You to be Happy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Besties – "Dragon Age: The Veilguard Wants You to be Happy"

Release Date: November 1, 2024

In this episode of The Besties, hosts Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, and Russ Frushtick delve deep into BioWare's latest installment in the Dragon Age series, "Dragon Age: The Veilguard Wants You to be Happy". This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the game, exploring its combat mechanics, narrative structure, character development, and its standing within the broader RPG landscape of 2024.

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1. Introduction and Guest Commentary

The episode kicks off with Griffin McElroy expressing excitement about having a special guest, referred to humorously as "dumpster funk legend Dr. John." However, it's soon revealed that this is actually Chris Plante under the influence of cough medicine, adding a layer of humor to the discussion.

• Griffin McElroy [00:00]: "We haven't had a special guest on the show for a long time and I am stoked to have sort of dumpster funk legend Dr. John in the mix."

2. Overview of Dragon Age: The Veilguard

The hosts introduce "Dragon Age: The Veilguard Wants You to be Happy" as BioWare's long-awaited follow-up in the Dragon Age series. They highlight the game's decade-long development and its significance as a potential return to form for BioWare after challenges with titles like Anthem.

• Christopher Plant [02:08]: "Dragon Veilguard is the Long in development, almost a decade in development. Follow up in the Dragon Age series and if you are to believe the rumors, a return to form..."

3. Combat Mechanics and Gameplay Comparison

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the game's combat system. The hosts compare it to other action RPGs, noting its real-time combat style and high mobility. Ross Frost draws parallels between Dragon Age: The Veilguard and games like Shadows of Amalur and God of War, praising its tight and responsive combat.

• Ross Frost [11:40]: "The combat's all real time. You can, like, have your companions cast spells and stuff like that..."

4. Narrative Structure and Storytelling

The narrative elements of the game receive mixed reviews. Griffin McElroy expresses frustration with the game's antagonists, feeling they lack depth and failed to evoke strong emotional engagement. In contrast, Justin McElroy appreciates the moral complexity introduced by the protagonist's actions, adding layers to the storytelling.

• Griffin McElroy [08:15]: "I didn't care about the villains at all. They just felt like kind of archetypical bad guys..."

• Justin McElroy [10:17]: "I thought it was interesting that your character has culpability and the morality of what you were trying to do is kind of up for debate."

5. Companion Characters and Writing Quality

The quality of companion character development is a focal point. While the individual companion side quests are lauded for offering rich backstories and cultural insights, the overarching narrative is criticized for its pacing and inconsistent writing quality. Ross Frost likens the experience to Mass Effect 2, where team-building narratives are more engaging than the broader plot.

• Ross Frost [17:49]: "It seems like my guess and who knows? But my guess is I think it's easier relatively to write a smaller story than it is to write a bigger story."

6. Structural Issues and Pacing

The hosts discuss structural challenges within the game, particularly the hub-and-spoke design that separates main quests from side missions. This separation leads to a disjointed experience, making it difficult for players to maintain narrative momentum.

• Griffin McElroy [09:58]: "But whatever. This game is going to be very. Like, we're going to disagree on a lot of stuff on this game..."

• Christopher Plant [19:07]: "I think the issue is pacing more than even necessarily quality of writing."

7. Overall Impressions and Divisiveness

Dragon Age: The Veilguard emerges as a divisive title among the hosts. While some appreciate its combat systems and the depth of its RPG elements, others find the narrative and pacing lacking. Christopher Plant emphasizes that fans deeply invested in Dragon Age lore might find more satisfaction, whereas newcomers may have varying experiences based on their gaming preferences.

• Griffin McElroy [38:31]: "It is rare, I think to get a game this divisive..."

8. Recommendations and Other RPGs of 2024

In the latter part of the episode, the hosts transition to recommending a lineup of noteworthy RPGs slated for 2024. They categorize these games based on player preferences, ensuring listeners can find titles that resonate with their interests. The recommendations include:

• Metaphor Refantazio: Ideal for fans of traditional JRPGs seeking mature storytelling.

• Dragon's Dogma 2: Suited for players desiring a deep D&D-like experience with immersive adventures.

• Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth: Recommended for those who enjoy action-packed RPGs with rich narratives and beautiful world-building.

• Infinite Wealth and Mario and Luigi: Brothership: These titles cater to diverse RPG tastes, from financially immersive simulations to humorous, cooperative adventures.

• Griffin McElroy [43:42]: "If you're younger and maybe like newer to this kind of RPG genre, I think this is like a killer."

9. Listener Engagement and Closing Remarks

Before wrapping up, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter about personal gaming experiences and upcoming content. They also encourage listeners to support their Patreon and promote other podcasts and media they enjoy. The episode concludes with a recap of the main topics discussed and a tease for future episodes focusing on additional RPGs.

• Ross Frost [67:07]: "We talked about Dragon Age, we also talked about a bunch of other RPGs, including [various titles]..."

• Justin McElroy [69:10]: "Some didn't come out. ...Some didn't come out. All right, so go and listen to that episode."

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Notable Quotes:

• Griffin McElroy [09:27]: "This is the most frustrating thing for me."

• Justin McElroy [10:17]: "Your character has culpability and the morality of what you were trying to do is kind of up for debate."

• Ross Frost [11:40]: "It reminded me a lot of the combat in the deep cut analogy is Shadows of Amalur..."

• Christopher Plant [24:14]: "I think that the way the game is kind of built, it's very hub and spoke like with interconnected hubs..."

• Griffin McElroy [43:42]: "If you're younger and maybe like newer to this kind of RPG genre, I think this is like a killer."

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Conclusion:

"The Besties" podcast episode on "Dragon Age: The Veilguard Wants You to be Happy" offers a multifaceted exploration of the game, balancing praise for its combat and RPG mechanics with critiques of its narrative structure and character development. The hosts' diverse perspectives provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of where the game stands in the current RPG landscape, helping both fans and newcomers make informed decisions about engaging with this latest Dragon Age installment.

Transcript

[Griffin McElroy]

We haven't had a special guest on the show for a long time and I am stoked to have sort of dumpster funk legend Dr. John in the mix.

[Ross Frost]

Welcome.

[Christopher Plant]

How are you doing?

[Griffin McElroy]

Good. Dr. John, I'm so excited for you to bust out.

[Justin McElroy]

You're both in the right place at the right time.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's right, Dr. John. So, Dr. John, how did you feel about BioWare's latest?

[Christopher Plant]

Oh, I've got to say, I think it's pretty great.

[Ross Frost]

Do you think it's funky enough?

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, I think it has like, kind of like a deep like kind of like a Basie kind of like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, Bass is thick in this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ross Frost]

You getting like Sun Ra vibes or where are you coming at?

[Christopher Plant]

Oh, yeah, it's almost Moon Ra vibes. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Just to take everybody inside the bit, that is actually Chris Plant and he's talking like that because he is fucking faded right now.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, this is not a bit. That is a genuine voice from him.

[Christopher Plant]

I'm taking. I don't even know what it is. It's a cough medicine that doesn't work. It's a cough medicine that makes me sound like this.

[Griffin McElroy]

So a lot of people have criticized game journalists for being way too easy on this particular game. Chris has faded on that cough medicine. You are going to get the real skinny shit from him this episode.

[Christopher Plant]

That's so true.

[Griffin McElroy]

By which I mean he's not going to talk very much because his throat hurts so bad.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, no, but I do like hearing about cool video games. So I'm kind of like a sort for the listener this. And also I'm here to lull you to sleep while I put on some nice midnight music on the radio.

[Ross Frost]

If we had started this saying that Chris Plant's new character was Robo Plant, you might think it was a robot, but in fact it's just Robitussin.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, I like that.

[Justin McElroy]

My name is Justin McElroy. I know the best game of the week.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McIlroy. I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I do know a video game this week.

[Ross Frost]

My name is Ross Frost. I'm the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

Welcome to the Besties where we talk about the latest and greatest at home interactive entertainment. It is a video game club and just by listening, my friend, you are a member. This week we're going to be turning the history books all the way back to the Dragon age for Dragon Veilgard. Chris Plant. What's that?

[Christopher Plant]

Dragon Veilguard is the Long in development, almost a decade in development. Follow up in the Dragon Age series and if you are to believe the rumors, a return to form in some capacity for somewhat fated developer BioWare, best known for making the Mass Effect in Bio. Jesus Christ, my brain. They made the Mass Effect in the Dragon Age games and then they made Anthem and it's been a rough time for them. So we're happy to have them back making a fantasy role playing game. Which answers your original question.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you. And we're going to talk about that and so much more right after this.

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[Justin McElroy]

If I could try, I would love.

[Griffin McElroy]

For you to start things out. Juice.

[Justin McElroy]

Allow me. Dragon Age is a long running fantasy RPG series and the history.

[Ross Frost]

There are three games. Does that count as long running?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I'm gonna say it's been around.

[Justin McElroy]

For long running in the term in the sense of like, how's it there? Four games, right? There's Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2, Inquisition the Veilguard. Four games.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay. I was not counting Veilguard in the calculation.

[Ross Frost]

Okay, well, yes, it is four games. No, that counts as long running. You're right.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's a long running franchise. But it's a weird one, right where I'm assuming no knowledge. It's a weird one because this franchise has felt to me always as like a lot of people's second favorite, you know what I mean? Like drag. And this is not to denigrate Dragon Age, but if you had asked me literally anything about Dragon Age before I started playing this game, I would have had literally nowhere.

[Griffin McElroy]

I played all the games, played all the games, played all the games, finished Inquisition. Loved it.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I really like them.

[Griffin McElroy]

Really liked Inquisition. I will say 10 years passed. Don't remember a fucking lick of it, man.

[Justin McElroy]

As the game began going, there was definitely some dark, some glints of recognition, you know what I mean, when we ran into certain characters. Some faint recollections and warm feelings, but basically kind of an open slate. But this is an action RPG. This is structured like Baldur's Gate 3 for kids.

[Griffin McElroy]

Wow.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't mean that. And again, I don't mean that in a mean way. It's just if you think about Baldur's Gate 3 and then you just really streamline it, like really, like much more approachable. Much more approachable. Much more. But like, structurally, that is what you're getting with combat. That is a lot more action oriented, but that's the basic thing. So the pitch narratively is there's this thing called the veil, and it's been imprisoning some evil elven gods and it's put there by a guy named Solas who you've run into in the other games. Solas veil cut off elves from some of their magic and it's kind of thrown the world into imbalance. So Solas wanted to balance the world by getting rid of the veil, which would have freed the gods. But he said he had a plan for that basically. And you show up and stop his plan. You free the gods, but you save a lot of lives in the process. And then basically you've got to fix this mess that you started with kind of with Solas help, because his allegiances and his alliances are always kind of fluid. But you go to assemble a team of adventurers who are going to help you basically put this proverbial genie back into the bottle.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is going to be a long episode. I think. I think we all have kind of a lot to say about the game. I Want to say this is the most frustrating thing for me. Solas was a playable character in Dragon Inquisition. You got to know him very well. Maybe you romanced Solas. I don't know if that was even an option.

[Justin McElroy]

Maybe you did.

[Griffin McElroy]

But then in the dlc, it really goes into how he is actually this Elven God called the Dreadwolf, and he wants to get rid of the veil which separates the real world from the fade, which is like this realm of chaotic dreams and magic. And it would fucking be very bad if that had happened, but it would reconnect elves to their magic and their immortality. So that's interesting. It's like, wow, a party member from an older game is kind of going to be the antagonist of this new game, which used to be called Dragon Dreadwolf. And in the first. In the tutorial of the game, that is sort of largely disarmed as a concept. And instead, now we get these antagonists who are these two Elven gods who are not as. Not remotely as interesting as it would have been to just, like, go against a former party member who is, like, maybe working in his best interest, but doing something that would be bad for the rest of the world. Like, that is an interesting conflict.

[Justin McElroy]

That's an interesting.

[Ross Frost]

So you think it's a retcon, is what you're saying?

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know if it's a retcon yet. Maybe. Right. Because, like, what Solas says is, like, I wasn't trying to tear down the veil. I was trying to move these two bad Elven gods to a different prison. And it's like, that's not actually. That's not really what he was aiming for. It sounded like in the, like, Inquisition DLC and the story. So, like, I don't know, it just seemed like a weird sidestepping of what seemed like a really promising idea for the game.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't want to go too deep in the weeds on any one thing in this. I disagree with Griffin because I think that the idea that you are trying to stop an apocalypse that you in some way kicked off is a lot more interesting of a starting point than a lot of these games. Your character has culpability and the morality.

[Ross Frost]

You kicked it off by interrupting his.

[Justin McElroy]

Character by interrupting this ceremony. Right. So, like, your character has culpability and the morality of what you were trying to do is kind of up for debate, but I thought it was interesting.

[Griffin McElroy]

But whatever.

[Justin McElroy]

That's.

[Griffin McElroy]

This game is going to be very. Like, we're going to disagree on a lot of stuff on this game, which is. I think you can see the macro version of that just by looking. If you look at different reviews, like, people are really loving this game and people are really not liking this game. I think my biggest issue is just that I did not feel. I didn't care about the villains at all. I didn't really. They just felt like kind of archetypical bad guys who want to destroy the world. And there wasn't. I would have much preferred to have a villain in there who, like, I don't know, was actively. I was debating whether or not I agreed with him, whether or not I wanted to, you know, how hard I wanted to fight him. And so, like, I don't know, the main plot of the game so far I've only played like 10 hours, has not had much propulsive force behind it.

[Ross Frost]

I guess differently from Hoops and Griffon. Insofar as I've never played any Dragon Age game. I played like three hours of Inquisition and that was it. And the things that have pushed me through this are not the narrative, which I think people think of Bioware games as, like, the narrative being pushing through, you know, pushing you through, but rather the combat and the, like, that aspect of it feels really fun and engaging and interesting to me.

[Justin McElroy]

Can we talk about that a little bit? Kind of what separates a few. The little.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, so the combat. The combat's all real time. You can, like, have your companions cast spells and stuff like that, but what you're doing is all in real time. So you're. You're dodging, you're doing counter attacks, you're blocking, you're. It's like very, very highly mobile. I played as a rogue. I think we have a range of people on this podcast that did different classes, but I found it to be, like, really interesting. It reminded me a lot of the combat in the deep cut analogy is Shadows of Amalur, which I know Justin felt the same way. For people that didn't play that one game made by Kurt Schilling's studio, it reminded me also of the God of war games.

[Griffin McElroy]

The recent God of war, Kingdoms of Amalur.

[Ross Frost]

Sorry, Kingdoms of Amalur.

[Christopher Plant]

The Reckoning.

[Griffin McElroy]

The re Reckoning was the remake name. It was very good.

[Ross Frost]

It did remind me of the God of War remakes, which is a total compliment. Like you really. Those games were very well made, and this felt like really tight and responsive.

[Justin McElroy]

There's a cool. You have a. It's a fairly small party, I would say, for a. For a rpg. It's a Small party for an action rpg. It's probably a big party. So like I could see why they wouldn't want you to manage more characters than three at any one time.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, it's you and two companions.

[Justin McElroy]

You and two companions. What's cool is there is a system in the game where there are certain like stati.

[Griffin McElroy]

Stati. Sure.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Why not Stati that. No status. Status.

[Griffin McElroy]

Statuses.

[Justin McElroy]

There's certain statuses that can be triggered. So like the what's one like shocked state or the weakened state can be. They call it detonated. So like one character in your lineup is one who can like apply. Sundered is one like it's a weakened state and another character can detonate Sundered. So like when you're on the fly calling for them to use their abilities, you can call for them to use these two abilities that kind of like combo together. Which is really basically essential for like party makeup. You want to have two that can do a combo together.

[Ross Frost]

And that actually is a direct lift from Mass Effect 2 and 3.

[Griffin McElroy]

They've introduced that concept very, very similar the way the combat I think is a little bit more action heavy with timed parries and stuff like that.

[Ross Frost]

There's not really cover based anything in this game.

[Griffin McElroy]

No. But when you pull up the context sensitive wheel showing this and it'll show you you have NEV on your party. This one might actually will trigger this one. It'll show you with arrows. If you use these two, it'll be good. What's interesting is I was having trouble with some of the spongier bosses and I realized sometimes it makes sense to not deton statuses because it can actually be pretty helpful to have them.

[Justin McElroy]

Interesting. I hadn't thought about that.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, I was wondering that because the game kind of.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah. You let them build and count. They count down and then you knock them at the last.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Christopher Plant]

But I think the way of describing the These.

[Griffin McElroy]

Your.

[Christopher Plant]

Your party is more like satellite weapons than characters. They. Because they don't have health bars and.

[Griffin McElroy]

The enemies don't really target them.

[Christopher Plant]

You don't have to really manage them. It's more that you are choosing to use them as like your special weapons that go alongside your kind of traditional melee combat.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And this is something that's really cool that I did not realize until actually very recently. There has been more writing, I think at least interstitial writing between characters whose abilities combo.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Justin McElroy]

So like I was doing a pretty banal like side, like not even a quest. It was a Little mission where I was moving around sprites, wisps, spirits, you know, with two characters, one of whom is a necromancer and the other one is really freaked out by dead stuff. They have this whole long discussion about how in their culture they burn corpses and in the necromancer's culture it's a whole ceremony thing. But this is dialogue that's just written that these two are delivering to each other. And I think characters whose abilities combo also have personality. These two continue to talk about this. There's also two characters who are better at cooking than everybody else in the house. And they, as you play like over the span of hours, will bring up cooking to each other.

[Ross Frost]

When they're in a mission together.

[Justin McElroy]

When they're in a mission together. Right. It's like I really like that dish you made or whatever. And it really makes them feel like little teams that you're used to going out with. Right. And it helps to encourage play, I think, with characters that you wouldn't normally use.

[Griffin McElroy]

Let's focus. Let's really drill into the writing and the companions. Cause I feel like that is the thing I am most sort of torn about about this game. I agree. I like the combat and just the general playing the game. Like when you're out on a mission. I think the environmental puzzles are a little bit weak. But like I always had a pretty good time when I was out in the world, like fucking destroying the venatoria or whatever. I played as a fighter and just used a two handed maul which is like so slow and it felt pretty good. But the writing is so strange in this game because I would also have moments like that where, you know, the side quests in this game are mostly like companion side quests where you go and you learn a little bit about them as you go into the world and like do something with them. And the writing in those are usually like pretty good. And you learn a lot about the character and their culture and then there will be times where the writing just seems like the bare minimum kind of effort got put into it. And I'm having a hard time kind of wrapping my head around how both of those things can coexist in the same game.

[Ross Frost]

It seems like my guess and who knows? But my guess is I think it's easier relatively to write a smaller story than it is to write a bigger story. So when I found myself disengaged with the story was mostly to do with the overarching giant elven God stuff and less to do with the individual one. Off stories, which was the truth, which was true of Mass Effect as well. Like, the strongest Mass Effect game was Mass Effect 2, because you're building the team and learning about all the little people on your team, and it's, like, way more personal. And then obviously, like, In Mass Effect 3, it turns into the save the world thing. And in this game, you are bouncing between those two, between the main missions and not. And I think that results in, like, a lot of conflict.

[Justin McElroy]

I will say I do think it's fair, though, in the fantasy genre specifically to have an. Like, I think that it's sort of inbuilt into the genre, that there's an amorphous evil that is generally pushing the story, but it's really more of a framework for these smaller, more human stories to be told. So I don't think that's that out of step with.

[Griffin McElroy]

For me, it's a structural issue, I think, more than anything, where the main quests and the companion side quests are totally separated.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like, you are doing one or you are doing the other. I think if they had been blended a little bit more. I hate comparing this game to Baldur's Gate 3 is not particularly fair, but that game did a better job of, like, you're in the world doing your saving the world thing, and then you see something that's like, oh, shit.

[Ross Frost]

Like, actually, this is kind of relevant.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is relevant to this character's thing. So we can go ahead and do this at the same time. So what result is when I'm doing the companion quest, I'm locked in. And when I'm doing the main quest, it's like, all right, let's fucking smash these bad guys and get back home.

[Christopher Plant]

I think there's two ways of putting that. I think the issue is pacing more than even necessarily quality of writing. And I think the thing that you're talking about fresh, about a long story being hard to write, I think maybe that's true, but also it's hard to retain as you're receiving it. Right. If it's been a few hours since you last checked in on the main story, you lose interest, naturally. And I think something Baldur's Gate did well that Griffin is talking about is there are games within the game. Like, each act felt like it could have been its own game, and then even there are chunks of the act that felt like they could have been their own game. And yet all of them ladder up narratively into each other, which I think this does a bit. I think the other challenge that has Here and hoops. I'm curious what you think, because I know that you've played probably the most to this. It feels like a game made by a bunch of different teams in a bunch of different places because it has to be out of necessity. And I felt like I was feeling that often in the writing where it wasn't. I wasn't. It wasn't. The writing was bad. It just was. At one point some characters would be talking kind of like a Whedon sarcasm and then in the very next scene they would be kind of flat and in the very next scene they would be different. And when I picked my dialogue, I wasn't always kind of sure what tone I was going to get from them. But I'm curious again, that might be more of an early game thing.

[Justin McElroy]

No, I think. No, that's definitely fair. I mean it's, it's, it's. It's kind of scattershot as far as that goes. I think that. I mean it's really hard, right, Because a lot of what we're talking about also like pacing and like unevenness and dialogue, a lot of that feels like where you have players interacting with it, it's tough to figure some of that stuff out. Like, I think that there is a problem in this game with like, I did a lot of early game stuff. It was that same problem of like I got deep into the early stuff and then I really lost track of the main plot. I will say that as you proceed forward, what this game does is those main quest storylines, the big missions, they really turn into like set pieces with a lot of invented gameplay for those bits. So like bits where like you might grab a ballista and take out some targets or you might like there's a hide and seek one. There's like some other type like little individual also like set pieces. Just like cool crap happens in the big missions. So that is something that is to look forward to when you build to actually getting to a point where you can attack these gods. It feels like such a one in a million shot. It's really quite exciting. I do think though that there's a problem with as the. When you have a big climax in the main story and then that be ends like after an act one, it's really hard to get that like, oh.

[Ross Frost]

We gotta shop for some apples now.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, exactly. It's hard to get that momentum going again.

[Griffin McElroy]

Especially because in my experience, I don't know if this is true for the whole game, but like after one of those big set pieces you get back to the lighthouse, which is like the hub for this game where you can talk to your characters and build relationships and manage your stuff. Everyone has stuff for. It's like you just finished this big fight and you go back and it's just gold question marks as far as the eye can see.

[Justin McElroy]

Everybody, everybody's like some shit they want to talk about.

[Griffin McElroy]

Now we got some shit. And so like, are you. If you go through and do all of that, it's gonna. You're taking a break from the story of Dragon Age Veilgard for a long time.

[Justin McElroy]

That's every. That's like everything.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, to some degree.

[Justin McElroy]

I also don't want to sit here, guys, and pretend that as we were playing Baldur's Gate 3, if anyone had asked us a lot of questions about like, so what's going on with these guys? We've been like, oh yeah, interesting. Let me explain it to you in detail.

[Christopher Plant]

Well, on that note, Justin, the question that I have for you.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Plant]

How does it feel to adventure in this game? And by that I mean what I love about a big RPG is when you get to like that 20 hour mark and suddenly you just kind of are let loose and it feels like you are truly having an adventure. What is that? What is that feeling?

[Justin McElroy]

I think that the. So the way the game is kind of built, it's very hub and spoke like with interconnected hubs, you know what I mean? Like there is not a connected world. You don't get the sense of that. It's very much like you cannot walk from one end of this to the other.

[Christopher Plant]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

You have to go to the central lighthouse that we talked about. So I would often wait until I had two or three quests in a certain area and then go hang out in there in like the dock town area or in the. In one of the other regions that are like. And most of the regions are sort of like built around one of your side characters. So there's like a sort of like a place called Treviso that's sort of an Italy stand in that this like a group of assassins called the crows hail from. I'll tell you what's cool as you go on in the adventuring sense is you pick a background for your character that is tied to one of. That's going to be similar to one of your side companions. Wouldn't be similar to one of your companions.

[Christopher Plant]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

For example, I was one of the crows and I was a mage who was one of the crows, which is like this group of assassins that Keeps the peace in this town. So when I did these missions, there was a lot of dialogue that was just about that. It was just about like, welcome back. It's good to see you changing the dialogue. So when they did the exposition, they were even framing, like, you know this already, but for your companion, like, that was so cool. And that sense is good. As you adventure around, you really get a vibe of, like, coming back to these areas and they recognize you and they really remember some of the choices that you've. You've made. And it shapes it. What I don't love is Dragon Age does both. The. Dave will remember that you said that.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

When you say something. But then when it pays off, it has to come up with a UI element. Like, this is because you said that shit today. It's amazing. It's like he's remembering this right now. It's like, yeah, I know. You don't need to.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah. It's like a director slotting in an earlier scene into a movie just to.

[Christopher Plant]

Remind you that this is even more. It's a editor leaving a little stamp to be like, we did the work.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah.

[Christopher Plant]

Because they really want you to know that the machine is working.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

I feel like the faction thing is neat in this game. It did at times. The game starts basically in Media Res, where your character, Rook, who you have created, busts into a bar with Varric to fuck people up. You're looking for this detective to help you find solace. And that shit happens really, really, really fast. And you are told sort of constantly like, you are the right person to lead this team. You are the only person who can get this done. You have been chosen for all of these reasons. I kind of wish this game does a lot of, like, Remember Back in Havana? Like, all that sort of storytelling trope where it's like, at the beginning of the game, I felt like I was a shadow dragon who was like this liberation front who worked to liberate people. All throughout Minrathis, there were times where I was like, that sounds cooler than what I'm doing right now. I would rather sort of see more of that stuff, which they do give you through the storytelling once you get in there. But I don't know. I feel like this franchise has had so many godlike characters in it that I never quite believed, like, you, this newcomer, are the right one for the game.

[Justin McElroy]

They gotta let you create a character, though, don't they?

[Ross Frost]

I would just reiterate that I appreciate when to make you care. Things start small and then get bigger and I think this game, because it has the franchise, that's a struggle. I understand. But, like, there's a reason why making the entire first act of Baldur's Gate 3 about, how do I get this worm out of my head and not, oh, shit, there's a giant mother God brain that's going to kill us all.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like, there is no slow build.

[Ross Frost]

You're kind of like pulling the thread or like, I need to rescue my dog is like a very small story, but everyone loves dogs, so there's like a drive there and then slowly but surely, oh, no, the big bad kills your dog and now you really hate them. It just doesn't feel as earned to me to pull me in again. The combat helped, like, smooth that over for me, but I would just say him.

[Christopher Plant]

I hear that. But I do want to say, for listeners of the show who really, really love Dragon Age, I think this is going to click in a way, because it doesn't do that, because it throws you right into the fire of all of the lore. And I'm just going off of our peers at Polygon, but we have quite a few people playing this at Polygon who are hardcore Dragon Age fans and.

[Justin McElroy]

Former BioWare staffers, I'm assuming.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, Justin, sorry, you can't feed that fire, my man.

[Christopher Plant]

Brutal.

[Justin McElroy]

No, because I want to say about that is nothing. It is just about the footprint of Dragon Age. That is literally all I'm saying is how deep of an impression it leaves. And I think it's tied to. I'd like to make a shot at pulling some of these threads together. I think that I really love. I really love this game a lot and I could see why people wouldn't. And I think that the thing is, it's just so desperate for you to like it and it wants so much for you to like. I'll give you an example because we didn't touch on the actual, like, I'm a mage, right? So a mage has two different, like, sort of sets of abilities you can switch between on the fly. One is like, you have a staff and you're shooting long range magic very much like you would think. And then you can press a button and you switch into what's called the spell blade. And you are using an orb to do melee attacks and then a sword to, like, detonate those attacks. Like after three of those, with this orb, you can use your sword to detonate those and they explode. And you switch between these in a moment, right? So it doesn't even want you to have to choose between being a magic guy or a sword guy. You could be both the guys. It's fine. And the choices that you make in this game. And I would say I went back and read my review. This was true about Dragon Age 2. When you make a choice in this game, it feels less like an interplay between you and a. A game master who's trying to create an interesting story and more like a game master friend who's, like, desperate to please. And it's like, okay, is that what you think happened? Perfect. Let me build this around.

[Griffin McElroy]

That is a really, really, really good way of summarizing sort of what this game is.

[Justin McElroy]

And it starts to feel a little bit like you're talking to yourself, because the game does anything I say. The game is like, yep, that's what happened.

[Griffin McElroy]

He's right.

[Ross Frost]

It feels safe. And I think game, structurally speaking, the game is designed in a very. As safe as an RPG of this scale could be designed. Because we were talking about the hub and spoke system, the maps, like, when you're on a mission, tend to be very linear.

[Justin McElroy]

When you want to get to a mission, it's literally like, daddy, Daddy, pick me up. Take me to the fun quick. Is it like, do you want us to drop you off at the waypoint or directly at the fucking mission start point? Daddy at the start.

[Ross Frost]

Which is just a reminder of how fucking batshit Baldur's Gate 3 was. Structurally speaking. To have as huge open environments as they had and still have interesting, like, missions within them.

[Griffin McElroy]

This game is going to be all over the map for people. It's like, I don't know how to recommend it, whether or not it's going to click for you. It did not click for me mostly just because, like, I didn't find the story or exploration that interesting. But, like, this game really doesn't incorporate a ton of stuff from past Dragon Age games. You see the characters, but it's not like a. Yeah, I was able to.

[Ross Frost]

Follow it and I didn't know any lore.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right, Exactly. It's not like a direct sequel to Inquisition. It feels sort of like a soft reboot while still kind of incorporating, like, some of the other stuff. And there's people who aren't gonna like that. The tone is profoundly different from, like, you look at Dragon Origins, which starts with you, like, doing this blood ritual that kills you, maybe if you do it wrong and getting trapped in the face. And, like, I don't. The tone of that game is way more brutal. Way, way, way, way, way more brutal. And so there's people who are, I think, gonna be bummed out by that. I don't really care about that stuff because I don't care that much about Dragon Age. I just think that this game's gonna click with some people and it's not going to click with a lot of other people.

[Justin McElroy]

Dragon Age is the saints row of.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Holy shit.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it really is. Because I mean, everything you're saying right.

[Christopher Plant]

Now, like literally everything, perfect game this episode, everything you're tossing across the plate is like fast right down the center. I agree with all this. I think it is kind of a miracle that we have this and Baldur's Gate 3 because I think they serve kind of polar opposite audiences. And I know that's kind of where we started, but I. Baldur's Gate 3 is the one that had kind of unified, positive, glowing scores. But let's be real, there are plenty of people who. Baldur's Gate 3 is not their game. It is a big ask for a lot of people too.

[Justin McElroy]

It's harder to. It's harder to pick apart though, even if you don't dig on Baldur's Great for sure.

[Christopher Plant]

My point is, if you like this one and you don't like Baldur's Great three, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It just means you have different taste and you're looking at different things in the game. We have a lot of listeners I know who love games like their Horizon Zero dawn series. Right. And I think if you are into like that sort of game, I think you're going to like a lot of what you find here. It is an RPG version of that sort of AAA experience where it really does want you to have a great time every minute you're there. And I think we might be a little bit of sickos who need a little bit of vinegar on our dish to make sure that we're not making.

[Griffin McElroy]

I want to push back on that. I don't think we are sickos for wanting more friction to be somewhat challenging. It is this. A little bit of salt makes the chocolate taste sweeter. There's very little friction between the characters in this game. When you do, you can make asshole choices, right? You get the radial wheel that's like you can be the funny guy or you can be just sort of a people pleaser or you can be gruff. This game takes the most liberty with the options shown that you can choose from versus what your character actually says. Because sometimes I pick the asshole option that's like, shut up, you idiot. And they'd be like, I don't think so. When you pick the actual option, I feel like liking some of that stuff. Doesn't. It's not like a. I don't know. That doesn't feel like a taste thing. That just feels like a good storytelling should have some friction between the characters and I don't know, maybe I just haven't really gotten to that stuff yet. But it.

[Justin McElroy]

This is what I wanted.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. This is why I was trying to cut you off. Because you're extremely early and there's a lot of that, like, as you, like, go through. In fact, there's some interesting stuff with you make big choices that shift your character's skill sets to where they are unable to use, like, support abilities.

[Griffin McElroy]

The hardened.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, the hardened things. There's like, mechanical impacts to that too, which is kind of interesting. But you're right, though. It's not like it does not get super antagonistic, but there are definitely people who remember choices that you've made and that causes it. People start to question your priorities.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think. I think I'm just. It's impossible for me to do this and not do this, and I think it's fair to do this. I'm holding this up against prior BioWare games where you look at any of the Mass Effect games. What was the fucking.

[Justin McElroy]

God.

[Griffin McElroy]

It was In Mass Effect 2, there was like a character who was trying to like, fight the genophage of his. Of the Krogan people. And then you also had the scientist who made that genophage on your team.

[Ross Frost]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

That was two.

[Griffin McElroy]

That was two. It's. It like, it doesn't all have to be like, to that level, but I don't know, I felt like I felt a little bit detached from this stuff.

[Justin McElroy]

This is the end of that game. No, this is the end, though.

[Ross Frost]

No, but they know that beforehand.

[Griffin McElroy]

They like, they talk about that stuff a lot and they, they. They dissect that stuff a lot. I know that I have not played enough of this game to like, writ large.

[Justin McElroy]

I just want to try to keep it in line with what we can like, address. And there are definitely, like, it. Here's what I'll say, guys. It feels like a shorter game earlier on, and then as you play, say 30 hours, it. There's a lot more.

[Christopher Plant]

It's like 50 to 90 hour game. Right.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like pretty beefy, but it's not built that way. It's not structured that way. They also don't have any quests that I have found at least that are not in some way narrative. So there's very little like.

[Ross Frost]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

There's not a lot of like jump.

[Ross Frost]

Just find this chest.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, right. It's. They're pretty. I don't know, I can absolutely see like to your all's point, like just not being to people's taste.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Like I always feel like I'm kind of serving two masters of a game like this where it's like there's the normal human besties co host side of me. It's like, yeah, interesting and very good. And then there's that part of me, it's like, hey, if you like stuff like this, I just found a big old bucket of it. Yeah, but you know, if you like stuff like this, if you do, this is a big bucket of stuff like this.

[Griffin McElroy]

This conversation I can't stop thinking about is such an interesting foil to our conversation about metaphor refantazio from like it starts out kind of slow, but if you stick with it 50 hours, it's just like we like that game because we like that game. You like this game because you like this game. It is rare, I think to get a game this divisive, I think and obviously there are some.

[Ross Frost]

You're talking about Dragon age or metaphor Dragon Age?

[Christopher Plant]

Both.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, maybe both. I mean the metaphor refantasio is like divisive in like you either know if you like JRPGs or not. Right. This one I guess is divisive in a sort of similar sense. It's obviously divisive for like shitty capital G gamer culture reasons also. But I don't know, it is interesting to me that we have gotten a couple of these games so close together.

[Christopher Plant]

I think that is a great segue to the B segment because in the B segment right after this break we're going to talk about the amazing lineup of RPGs of 2024 and talk through which one is for you. We're going to say this type of person will probably enjoy this type of RPG and we're going to get you set up with 50 to 100 hours of greatness going into the holiday. Right after this break.

[Justin McElroy]

We are officially there. We're there in the gift giving season. We're in that special gift giving time. You don't want to hear about it because it's stressful. Well, good news. How about I just fix all the stress for you right now? No problem with aura frames. Every time you give an aura frame, it's going to feel like a hand picked personal gift. Why? Because you're going to digitally fill it with an incredible number of memories that you and the person you're giving the gift to can share. You want your grandma to see what's going on with your kids. You want to see your brother to know what your dogs are up to, whatever. Then buy them an aura frame. You set it up on their wifi. You can do it headed time if you want to. And then with just a couple of button presses on your phone or whatever, you can upload photos to that person's phone. It's a really good way of staying in contact. It's a wonderful gift. It's easy to set up. We've got. We've gotten them for quite a few people in our lives and we have never had anything but a thrilled reaction. And I think that you should really give it a shot. For a limited time, visit Oraframes. And get $45 off Aura's best selling carver Matte Frames by using promo code Besties at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code besties. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year, so don't miss out. Terms and conditions apply.

[Griffin McElroy]

Us gamers got a game and there's nothing that can stop us. Even a subscription fee for the game that we're playing. But sometimes we move on to a new game and forget about that subscription fee for a long, long time and it's just chewing away at our bank account like so many termites. Well, good news. Rocket Money is here to help you find those subscriptions that you have forgotten about and help you cancel them so that you can save a whole bunch of money. I've used Rocket Money a lot in the past to catch some subscriptions for games, MMOs specifically that I hadn't been playing, or apps specifically for my kids on the iPad that I had subscribed to and forgotten about. And I cannot even fathom how much money it has saved me because of those subscriptions that it caught. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancels unwanted subscriptions. It also monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million and canceled subscriptions, saving members up 740 bucks a year when using all the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to Rocketmoney.combesties. that's Rocketmoney.combesties one last time. Rocketmoney.combesties.

[Ross Frost]

First point. You sound like shit.

[Justin McElroy]

Do I? Yeah.

[Christopher Plant]

I thought it was honestly sounding better. I thought the cough medicine was kicking in.

[Justin McElroy]

You sound. You sound. Is this in the show or out of the show? I think this is in the show. You sound terrible.

[Christopher Plant]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Sound terrible. Well, I wouldn't be that. If it was out of the show. It would have been a lot more ginger about that. But like.

[Christopher Plant]

No, no, no.

[Justin McElroy]

You sound terrible. I just don't want to hear as much talking from you.

[Ross Frost]

No, I kind of want to hear more.

[Justin McElroy]

I want to hear none. So let's find a balance.

[Christopher Plant]

Cool. We'll find. We'll throw right down the middle. I like it. I'll set this up. Basically. We have so many delicious RPGs this year. We have. Let's go through the list. Dragon age, the Veilguard metaphor. Refantazio Dragon's Dogma 2. Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth. Like a Infinite wealth and Mario and Luigi Brothership. The last.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I make a request?

[Christopher Plant]

I don't think any of us have played. Go ahead.

[Justin McElroy]

Can we do this segment with absolutely no negativity?

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, I agree.

[Justin McElroy]

Absolutely none. As we're helping you to decide your game is just from love.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's gonna be hard for me on Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, but the rest of them. That sounds like negativity.

[Justin McElroy]

We will find the person.

[Christopher Plant]

I like that game. So I can do that.

[Justin McElroy]

There we go.

[Griffin McElroy]

Great. Awesome.

[Christopher Plant]

Let's go.

[Ross Frost]

Let's do it.

[Christopher Plant]

Let's start the top Dragon Ages of Elgar. Who is the person who is hungry for this bucket full of delicious treat?

[Justin McElroy]

I legit. I think if you're a younger. Someone who is younger and maybe like newer to this kind of like RPG genre, I think this is like a killer. Again, I don't mean this to sound how it does, but like babies first.

[Ross Frost]

Like maybe like a ya.

[Justin McElroy]

Ya. Oh man. YA is actually very on point. Yeah. Aesthetically it's very ya, isn't it? It's very. The word that kept part of my head was over designed. And I don't know if that's it, but like every. Every outfit looks like it took three hours to put on. Like they're just trying to antagonize cosplay characters. But yeah, I think it's a great, super accessible, like first place to start if you. If you have not gotten into many action RPGs. I think it's a great. Or RPGs period. Like, I think it's a great first. First one that doesn't require much if Any prior knowledge of it? Of the. Of the franchise?

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, I don't think it requires any.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, a little brush.

[Justin McElroy]

A little. Got a lot of cgi.

[Ross Frost]

I didn't have any. I mean I got it. I'm sure I missed some stuff, but like I got it.

[Christopher Plant]

A YouTube summary will go a long way for it. Next up, metaphor refantazio Griffin.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean traditional JRPG fans, but if you are one of those, you're probably already playing Metaphor refantazio. If you like big ass stories with politics and castle intrigue and secret assassination plots, I would say of this list, this is the most maybe mature subject matter dealt with. I think that's right. Metaphor refantazio is the game for you.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah. One other thing I'll add to that with the politics. Surprisingly thoughtful and understanding of the complexity of just the human experience. The biggest surprise of that game and I think Griffin and I might do a B segment or something later on this season, but that it does not have a lot of interest in easy answers, which I was surprised to see and really appreciated. Dragon's Dogma 2 this is the one for people who really want to play the D and D experience. If you like the idea of going out and living the adventure. If you want to have to worry about bringing camp kits out when you go into the woods at night, if you want to hike for.

[Justin McElroy]

I thought they were consumable for so long guys. I thought they were consumable for so long. I was bringing four of those bad boys out in the woods with.

[Griffin McElroy]

When you go camping with Juice, he actually, when you finish, he rolls up the tent and he throws it in the creek and lets it go away. He's like, this one's done.

[Justin McElroy]

That's great.

[Griffin McElroy]

I love the DM comparison that you made during the Veilguard discussion. I like thinking about the DM for Dragon's Dogma 2, who is just a. Who's a stickler for certain elements of the player's handbook that maybe other DMs would eschew.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And then at other times you ask him a question and he's not in the room. He's like in his fridge looking for something. He's like, you're still walking back. Jesus.

[Christopher Plant]

I all of this I say as a compliment. We are still in positivity zone.

[Griffin McElroy]

Absolutely.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Christopher Plant]

You know, a few games of the year, I adore it. I think it's also a great game if you just. If you're the type of person who loves to see people pushing up what a game is and you love a bit of jank.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Plant]

This game. Oh man, it really hits it for me.

[Justin McElroy]

I also would say of all the games on this list, this one perhaps the most. Maybe Infinite wealth is close, but my. Our dad will get into games in a much deeper way than any of us get into games. Like, he will really, like move in. That man has lived in Elden Ring for six months. Like you guys.

[Griffin McElroy]

Seriously longer than that man.

[Justin McElroy]

He's longer than that. My dad has gotten his save wiped twice.

[Ross Frost]

No.

[Justin McElroy]

In Elden Ring. I don't know how he keeps doing it, but he just keeps going back and starting Elder Ring again. That man lives in Elder Ring. But the point. But if you're going to move into a game, I think Dragon's Dogma 2 is like, sometimes people who play fewer games are a lot more accepting of that kind of stuff because they're not thinking about the next game they're going to play. They're really willing to just like live there.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah. My best memories from a game this year come from Dragon's Dogma 2 Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth. I guess I'll take this. I think I like this the best of everybody here. Yeah, you go ahead and I'll finish.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think if you like action in your rpg, the action in this game is fantastic. It is a fun game to go out and get in fights in and to manage your character. The progression of this game is also wonderful. And if you like Japanese RPGs with huge set piece moments, you could do much, much worse than Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth. And then I whoop, here comes to Chris Plant.

[Christopher Plant]

Oh, and hey, what up? I'm in the midair. Ready to put that dunk down. It's also just beautiful. The world is a really lush and beautiful place to be in at times. And the music is that classic symphonic, you know, fills the room. Score. I quite enjoyed it. And I think this is a little bit similar to veilguard in that if you are the person who plays maybe just a couple of games a year and you want to get in and you can have something that you come back from work and you just dive into and let it kind of wash over you, I think this is a good game for that. Especially if you have a lot of nostalgia for the series.

[Griffin McElroy]

I will say, and I don't know if this trends into negativity, I do think it would be wild to play this game without playing Final Fantasy 7 Remake first.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that's a really good point.

[Christopher Plant]

That's a great point.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like a dragon. Infinite wealth, baby. Any like yourself, anybody.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you like life? Do you like.

[Christopher Plant]

Do you like a dragon?

[Justin McElroy]

Do you like Hawaii?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Plant]

So good.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you like a dragon? That's. Thank you, Plan A. Great point. Do you like a dragon?

[Griffin McElroy]

Do you like a bunch of minigames? Do you like an RPG with a billion things to do? Do you like immersive sort of travel simulation characters who are deep and thoughtful and very funny with. This game's so good, I would literally recommend it to anyone who has ever played an RPG before. I think it's got a little bit of something for everyone and it is hard for me to find fault.

[Christopher Plant]

It really is. The only threshold is if you don't like RPGs, it's an RPG.

[Griffin McElroy]

Even then, though, it's got turn based combat. But that turn based combat also incorporates. That's so true.

[Ross Frost]

This was the crossover game for me as a person who doesn't like a lot of turn based RPGs. Very few. Because of the characters, because of the writing, and because of the combat. Still feeling a little actiony. All of that stuff was enough to power through my general dislike of the genre. It is so winsome and just full of mirth.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ross Frost]

That you cannot deny it.

[Christopher Plant]

If you also have wanted to get into Persona or Metaphor, but you are turned off by the density of it, by the rigorous schedule, by all of the dialogue and the tone.

[Ross Frost]

The tone is like in Persona is like a lot.

[Christopher Plant]

But Infinite wealth really captures literally the structure of it of play submissions. Go do some silly things. Bond with your team. The bonding system in Infinite wealth with each of your characters is very, very similar to the bonding system in the Persona games. Yeah, it's. It really borrows a lot of what makes Persona special, but puts it in a world where you have a lot of freedom to just move around and find.

[Griffin McElroy]

Also, I will say, unlike Rebirth, I don't actually think you need to have played other Yakuza games.

[Ross Frost]

Correct.

[Griffin McElroy]

You are rewarded tremendously for doing so. But I think most of the people.

[Justin McElroy]

On this call, man, there's a half of this game that's gonna be a lot of skipping dialogue.

[Griffin McElroy]

If you don't care about Cosmic.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. If you don't like Cosmos. So I did it. It's valid.

[Christopher Plant]

I think if you have at least a little bit of knowledge, you can still enjoy that. I also think the cool thing about the back half of this game is it's kind of a primer on the history of all the other games. So if you play this game and you played nothing else, you're good to.

[Griffin McElroy]

Go for me, honestly, not a bad idea. Yeah. I went back and played a little bit of Yakuza 0 after this and I was like, oh, yeah, there's that dude who I saw.

[Justin McElroy]

This is the only one of these I've ever finished.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

So.

[Griffin McElroy]

And the ending is. The ending is something I will think about for a long, long, long, long time.

[Justin McElroy]

I will also say he is the best video game Ichiban hero. Ichiban is the best video game hero. I mean, he's top three. Like. I mean, like, legitimately, the way they do his character in this game. You forget how much of your life in your adult life you have gotten anti heroes.

[Ross Frost]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Like, you forget how many characters that you have been forced to follow in. A lot of video games are actually like bad people just trying to get something done.

[Ross Frost]

Or not even that. Just like flat. Like a master Chief.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Or nothing. Or a cipher. Yeah, right. Exactly. This is an actual good hero in a video game. It kicks ass.

[Christopher Plant]

You wish he could be your real friend.

[Justin McElroy]

You're a real friend.

[Christopher Plant]

He is like, I would love to go hang out with this dude or.

[Justin McElroy]

Have Ms. Chad or whatever.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Everyone should play this game. And then who is this game? Russ, what about this game that's not out yet and we don't know.

[Ross Frost]

I have no idea if this game is good or not. I'm going to guess that it's like all the other good Mario and Luigi games. And if that is the case, this is the game. This is also a very good crossover game for people that don't like traditional RPGs because they tend to be very silly. The combat tends to be very action and timing oriented, which, based on trailers, this looks like it is a lot of it is gonna hinge on the writing. And it's kind of hard to say whether the writing is gonna be good or not.

[Griffin McElroy]

It is a coin flip for this franchise. Whether it's gonna be like, witty and fun and clever or it's like individual missions.

[Justin McElroy]

That's a good point.

[Ross Frost]

I was gonna say the good news is we're gonna do an episode on this in two weeks, so you'll know for sure if it's for you. I'm very excited. I hope that this heralds a new age for this franchise.

[Christopher Plant]

But yeah, kind of wait, if it doesn't. The Super Mario RPG reboot remake. A perfectly viable option.

[Griffin McElroy]

Also, like, pretty big demographic here. Like, if you're younger, this is a good. This is the one for you.

[Ross Frost]

4,000 year door. I also think it's like yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Thousand year door also came out this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I see here we have one addition to.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Elder Scrolls 6.

[Ross Frost]

Oh yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

You never know. I mean, as long as we're guessing, I think that's gonna be if you like fantasy and stuff. Like, I bet you'll like that too. Or maybe you won't. I don't know.

[Ross Frost]

Is it gonna be compatible with neuralink when it comes out or there's no way of knowing. Cause my left eye will be fully compatible, but my right eye, I don't know.

[Justin McElroy]

It might be a late 2024 drop. We do not know.

[Ross Frost]

What game awards do you think announced.

[Justin McElroy]

They'Re gonna stay in? Look under your chairs. It's Elder Scrolls 6.

[Ross Frost]

And the bad DLC for Starfield was just like a throw, just to throw you off the trail.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

At the end of that is a QR code to Delaware Scroll 6.

[Griffin McElroy]

Todd shows up like, okay, true believers, you've served your time.

[Christopher Plant]

I. We're goofing. I think we're going to see Elder Scrolls at game awards. That makes a lot of sense to me. I think Microsoft is on a Hearts and Minds PR tour coming out of this year. And I would not be surprised if they were like, I mean, they'll show.

[Ross Frost]

A fucking elf face, but they're not gonna show.

[Christopher Plant]

No. Yeah, but they'll show something just to be like, don't worry.

[Ross Frost]

Sure. Because now they can. They're like. Todd's like, I don't want to show it yet. I'm worried. And Microsoft's like, go fuck yourself, Todd.

[Christopher Plant]

And they already, they already did that to Todd when Bethesda was trying to get sold. Remember, remember that, that E3 where they were like, here's the next 30 years of our video games. I sure hope somebody buys this.

[Justin McElroy]

I heard that Todd wants the cat people to be schlong out from frame one.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's what he said.

[Justin McElroy]

And Phil and Phil and the gang are like, you can't do it, Todd. And he's like, you bought me, but you don't own me.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Frost]

We did it. Do we have any honorable mentions?

[Justin McElroy]

Oh yes. I'd like to mention something. May I?

[Ross Frost]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. I want to mention a podcast called the Rest is Entertainment. And I know that we don't often do podcasts on here, but if you like the entertainment industry. This is hosted by Richard Osman, who's a very well known author and panel show host in the uk, who's also on Taskmaster, and Marina Hyde, who's also an entertainment journalist. And the two of them, there's two episodes a week. One is like a news rundown and the other is like a Q and A. And both are really interesting. And The Q&As are a lot of like behind the scenes specifics about the entertainment industry. Like for example, when you're cursing in a movie that is funded by the UK and America, how do you decide what slang to use? Or like, how do they film scenes in cars? Or who washes dishes on Great British Bake Off? And the two of them are really great because they're funny and witty and smart, but they are also like insiders. She's currently writing, for example, on that new HBO show, the Franchise, about the behind the scenes, like a Marvel type thing. So they are both in the. And she's a huge columnist in the uk, but they're both in the industry and they're both super enthusiastic about the stuff they're covering. It's not a cynical take. They're fans of like everything. So when they talked about, for example, the Concord debacle, it was from a very like well educated, positive place about like why that that happened and how it went down in the context of it.

[Ross Frost]

The video game.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah. They talk about like, you know, when something large happens in the gaming industry, they'll cover it and they do a really good job. So it's a fascinating listen. And if you like that kind of thing.

[Griffin McElroy]

What's it called again?

[Justin McElroy]

It's called the Rest is Entertainment. There's two episodes a week. They just launched a VIP thing where you can cut out the ads if you want this week. But it's a really, really good. It's only a year old. You can go back and listen to all of it. It's great.

[Griffin McElroy]

I have a few of these. But on a similar note, Mega 64 is a video game video making outfit that I've been following since I was like in high school. Maybe have made so many amazing videos. I don't know if they just launched the Patreon or if they've just done a big ask because they've run into some financial issues and the idea of a world without Mega 64 makes me very sad. So if you're also a fan, think about supporting them there. I have a new bike game and it's Diablo 4 Vessel of Hatred.

[Ross Frost]

Oh boy.

[Griffin McElroy]

A really good bike game, y'all. It is so easy to turn the brain off and launch a bunch of lightning quills at hordes of.

[Justin McElroy]

Did you start with a new. How do you do?

[Griffin McElroy]

Do you start With God, there's a new class, the Spirit Born, which is sort of like a Druidic monk type class. I made one.

[Justin McElroy]

That's everything that loves God together.

[Griffin McElroy]

Perfect. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Can he be a priest, too?

[Griffin McElroy]

Maybe. When you start the game, you can choose whether to start with the Vessel of Hatred campaign or to do the other campaign. I already did the other campaign.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, sorry. I thought you were saying you could choose whether or not you want to start with the Vessel of Hatred. Cause I want it. I gave it to me from the beginning. It's invulnerable. You can walk through walls.

[Griffin McElroy]

The way it works in Diablo is they have seasons, and the seasons have different quests and different flavor, different rewards. And so when you make a new character, you make a seasonal character who, when the season's over, becomes an eternal character. You can play anytime. It just won't be in a season. Anyway, great game to bike to. And also, I have had more time to kind of, like, play some stuff on the Steam deck. I got way into UFO 50.

[Justin McElroy]

Way, way, way more that I texted him, like, why are you playing so much?

[Griffin McElroy]

Finished. House Party. Loved it. And then I've been bouncing back and forth between Pilot Quest, which I think I'm almost finished with, and Grimstone, the very Dragon Quest rpg. Because by the time you do some shit in Grimstone, go back to Pilot Quest, you have a lot of stuff waiting for you. Anyway, I am excited for the possibility for that game to sort of fulfill the thing that I wanted it to fulfill, which is just like a thing I can keep on my Steam deck forever and keep returning to and keep exploring it.

[Ross Frost]

Because that game is now supported officially on portmaster. So if you've bought the game on Steam and you follow the instructions on portmaster, you can get the game running on, like, a variety of emulation handhelds, which you have. I have it running on one, and.

[Christopher Plant]

It'S the Cross saves work.

[Ross Frost]

No.

[Christopher Plant]

Okay.

[Ross Frost]

You need to be okay with the idea that Unpossible.

[Griffin McElroy]

No way, man.

[Ross Frost]

But it's great. I mean, I was playing Mortal and a bunch of other ones that I didn't necessarily feel like I needed to play on a giant Steam deck. Sure. And so, yeah, fucking UFO 50 rules. I wanted to call out the new standup special from Seth Meyers, which is on Max. It's called dad Man Walking Funny. If you saw his last special, that was the one where his wife gave birth in the lobby of their apartment building. It was called Lobby Baby. Also an excellent special, but I think they're both great. I'm constantly really impressed by his ability to host a fucking nightly late night show and also put out really, really strong standup.

[Christopher Plant]

That's a good podcast right now with the longest brother. With his brother. What?

[Ross Frost]

Yeah, he does a podcast with his brother.

[Christopher Plant]

Wow. He does two podcasts.

[Ross Frost]

What's the other one?

[Justin McElroy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Christopher Plant]

That's crazy. Who could possibly pull that off?

[Justin McElroy]

And once with his brother.

[Griffin McElroy]

Whoa.

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah, you know, it's just him in Lowly island, and it's kind of like looking back at their sketches. Similar to the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia podcast. But it's enjoyable. I've been sick, obviously, so I watched Doctor Sleep, the Director's Cut, and I had avoided it for a long time because of Rose the Hat, who is the villain in the movie.

[Griffin McElroy]

Scary.

[Christopher Plant]

Too scary. And she wears a hat that looks very silly in all of the trailers and the promotional images.

[Griffin McElroy]

But then she kills kids and it's like, whoa.

[Christopher Plant]

And then she kills kids and you're like, oh. Actually, it doesn't matter what you wear, you're terrifying. It's a pretty great movie. I'm late on board that train. Mike Flanagan directed it, who did Hill House and Fall of Midnight Mass. But it is very loyal to the Stephen King of it all, in that there are entire scenes where we get to hear people talk about your shine or your fog or ether or whatever.

[Ross Frost]

I mean, it is the sequel to the Shining, correct?

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah. But mercifully, Stephen King didn't have long, long scenes about whether or not you're going to continue to have that beautiful shine. Because it sounds so silly when said out loud and not read quietly to yourself in a book. And yet. And yet it does get through it quite well. It is honestly like a great merger of Kings books and Kubrick's vision for the film without kind of taking a side in the war between those two. And I recommend it. The only caveat is it's like three hours long and you definitely want to watch the Director's Cut. And I believe it is streaming on prime or Max.

[Ross Frost]

And how much tustin should you take before watching?

[Christopher Plant]

Oh, a lot. Yeah, I took a lot of DM and I watched it at like, I think, like five in the morning because I had gone to bed so early the night before.

[Ross Frost]

Cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

Perfect. Perfect scenario for that.

[Ross Frost]

You should see a doctor.

[Justin McElroy]

I am sorry, guys. I just wanted to. This is so. I hate to do this, but I have two Hades, two updates. I just want to. Oh, shit. We've had two patches since the last time we talked, one got like weirdly released, like an opportune time for besties recording. And then the next was like a smaller kind of update to it, but they finally dropped the last weapon. The last nocturnal arm is now available.

[Ross Frost]

What is it?

[Justin McElroy]

Can you go in and get that? Is it.

[Griffin McElroy]

No, I don't want to spoil it.

[Ross Frost]

Spoiler, spoiler.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry.

[Ross Frost]

Sorry.

[Justin McElroy]

It's okay. I mean, you can go look at it as soon as you load the game, but. Yes, but you have to. And you gotta get into. There's another area. Up, up. If you go up upwards instead of downwards towards the bad guy down there. If you go upwards, there's a new up area. If you keep going up past Eris, there's another.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is it time to return then, would you say? Or can I keep holding off until there's a little bit more juicy stuff?

[Christopher Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

This is a big one. I doubt you'll hear. They named this update the Olympic Update because you're going to Mount Olympus and it's a big win. It feels like it'll probably be a while before you get another one. And this is like the last weapon. There's still some placeholder art, but I love seeing the placeholder art and it bums me out that if you wait a really long time, you're going to miss a lot of this like placeholder stuff.

[Ross Frost]

How do you know if it's placeholder art?

[Justin McElroy]

So when you look at like the characters in the open world, like when you're in the zoomed out view, you see a lot of people who are in like these long cloaks sort of like hiding them. But then when it goes into their actual character you see like an actual design. So assumption being that that's a placeholder until they have an actual character art and then it will be depicted and.

[Ross Frost]

There'S some way to do it.

[Justin McElroy]

And there's some of the character art that is more like a sketch. It's not as finalized and there's not a lot of effects and stuff. And so it's very cool to see that kind of evolve in real time.

[Ross Frost]

But yeah, I think this game has a chance.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think it might just make it okay.

[Ross Frost]

I think we did it. I wanted to thank the following people for being patrons of the Besties. You can go to patreon.com thebesties and support us. We have Enrique, Duncan, Brandon and Vanya. Vanya. Vanya. Uncle Vanya. Thank you for being patrons.

[Griffin McElroy]

God, you're culture.

[Ross Frost]

We just recently recorded. It's not out yet, so I'M not going to plug this thing. It'll be out next week. We have a new episode of the Bracket Battles, which is Best Party Games. So we did that. It's coming next week for all subscribers, so stay tuned for that and thank you for being supporters. Let's recap everything we talked about. Sick Plant.

[Christopher Plant]

Can you do that? Yeah, I'm going to do it.

[Ross Frost]

And so we talked about Dragon Age.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm overdosing on Vitamin Rust over here. Loving it.

[Ross Frost]

We talked about Dragon the Veilguard. We also talked about a bunch of other RPGs, including Metaphor Ray, Fantasio, Dragon's Dogma 2, Final Fantasy 7, Rebirth, like a Dragon, Infinite Wealth, Mario and Luigi, Brothership, Elder Scrolls 6. And we also talked about the Seth Meyers special on Max, which is called dad Man Walking. I also mentioned Lobby Baby, which was his previous special. Plant mentioned the movie Doctor Sleep, the special director's cut. Griffin mentioned Mega 64, who I believe has a Patreon, and they do great stuff. He also talked about the Diablo 4 expansion pack and UFO 50. And we have Justin coming in with the Rest Is Entertainment, which is a podcast. Justin also mentioned the Rest Is Entertainment, which is a very good podcast, which you can find on various platforms. That's it. Next week we are going to be doing an episode. We recorded this a little early, but we're going to be doing an episode.

[Justin McElroy]

That'S none of their business.

[Ross Frost]

Well, you guys are going to be on tour. They don't want to, you know, none of their business.

[Justin McElroy]

Anyway, you don't owe them that.

[Ross Frost]

We graded our predictions from 2024, so we went back to the episode. At the beginning of this year we took a look at some of our picks for what we thought were going to be hot as shit games for 2024, and guess what? Some of them were wrong. Some of them were right. Some of them. We didn't fucking know what Balatra was, so don't blame us.

[Justin McElroy]

Some didn't come out.

[Ross Frost]

All right, so go and listen to that episode. It's a fun one. If there's mention of there being no Hades 2 updates in that episode now, you know, because we recorded it a.

[Justin McElroy]

Couple weeks ago and if I mentioned that I'm going to get way into Alone in the Dark, I didn't. Oh boy.

[Griffin McElroy]

We never put out like a secret cipher before the episode.

[Ross Frost]

It's like a Chris Nolan because it.

[Justin McElroy]

Is got a lot of David harbor and Jody Come here in it. Absolutely.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's a huge amount.

[Ross Frost]

Okay, close it out. Juice.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, thanks very much for listening, buddies. We hope you've enjoyed yourself and we hope you are looking forward to joining us again. Next time on the Besties, because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game.

[Christopher Plant]

Besties?