← The Besties
The Besties
Fortnite's Humongous Simpsons Update Raises an Awkward Question
01:00:59
Fortnite’s new Simpsons update reimagines the entire experience through the decades-old cartoon. You can select from Homer, Lisa, Flanders, Moe, and other playable characters, then skydive into a faithful recreation of Springfield. The detail is absurd, down to the operable trap door button in Mr. Burns’ office. It feels like the culmination of Epic Games’ efforts to be the black hole that pulls in every corner of mainstream pop culture. Fortnite has become so big and so appealing that it raises the uncomfortable question floating around the rise of similar Forever Games: are most people motivated to play anything else?
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- [00:00]
Russ Frushtick
I think that I hit the right note in Let it Go in the shower this morning, and no one was there to witness it. And I don't know. I think I hit it. I'm like, I think you should let it go.
- [00:13]
Griffin McElroy
Are you talking about the past is in the past? That one.
- [00:17]
Justin McElroy
Do you harmonize with it?
- [00:18]
Griffin McElroy
Are you right there with Idina?
- [00:19]
Justin McElroy
Are you guys cresting the beef together?
- [00:21]
Russ Frushtick
I can't sing it now because I'm worried from just a rights issue.
- [00:25]
Griffin McElroy
Well, that's bullshit.
- [00:26]
Justin McElroy
It would be a tonal match. That AI would be a problem. Yeah, I don't think it would be a problem with Adina. Yeah, I think it would be okay, actually.
- [00:32]
Griffin McElroy
Rachel has, like, a filter she can apply to songs to make them not get snagged by the algo.
- [00:38]
Russ Frushtick
I think that's too close to AI and I don't trust it, quite honestly.
- [00:41]
Griffin McElroy
No, it's all physical. Like, she puts it in a crank, and she cranks it through it, and so you should sing. Yeah. So give me a Past is in the past. I've done it, like, three times now, and it's not.
- [00:53]
Russ Frushtick
I know, but it's not.
- [00:54]
Griffin McElroy
I'm sick, too.
- [00:54]
Russ Frushtick
So, like, acoustically speaking, I know I set this recording booth up for that.
- [00:59]
Griffin McElroy
Specific purpose, but acoustically processing for that, too. She can add reverb and, like, I.
- [01:04]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Know what the problem is. You. You want to feel like you're in the shower, so.
- [01:10]
Russ Frushtick
No, I don't. Wet water.
- [01:12]
Justin McElroy
Russ, Honey, I'm about to flush.
- [01:16]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Russ.
- [01:17]
Griffin McElroy
Russ, I'm about to flush. Sweetheart. Wet hair.
- [01:21]
Justin McElroy
Dad, Open the door. Open the door. Open the door.
- [01:24]
Griffin McElroy
It's me staring into the middle distance. Let it go.
- [01:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, you're right.
- [01:36]
Russ Frushtick
It was good, right? It was good.
- [01:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, I think you're right.
- [01:39]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, it was good, dude. Hell, yeah, dude.
- [02:01]
Justin McElroy
My name is Justin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week.
- [02:03]
Griffin McElroy
My name is Griffin McElroy. I know the best game of the week.
- [02:05]
Christopher Thomas Plant
My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week.
- [02:10]
Russ Frushtick
My name is Russ Fresher guy. I know the best game of the week.
- [02:14]
Justin McElroy
Welcome to the Besties, where we talk about the latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment. It's a video game club, and just by listening, you have become a member. This year, we're talking about what if a very old video game was about a much older TV show? And here we are. The Simpsons have invaded Fortnite. Chris Plant, remind me about the Simpsons.
- [02:37]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, well, it all started a long time ago when a man named David, look, it's called fart night. That's what you need to know. Fortnite has been sitting on the fart night pun for years and years wondering when are we going to get to use it. And old El Barto came up and spray painted that thing and changed the world. And now it's all anybody wants to talk about.
- [03:04]
Justin McElroy
They will be among them right after this.
- [03:07]
Griffin McElroy
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- [04:34]
Justin McElroy
I don't want my. I don't want my cheeky intro to be mistaken for cynicism because now when you jump out of the bus and it's all of Springfield, it's cool.
- [04:46]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, I like this.
- [04:49]
Justin McElroy
It was fun. You can go to the Simpsons house and run around and y' all being in the Simpsons house is weird because I know how to get around the Simpsons house. That's a. That was a very surreal moment. Is like clearing Bart's. Bart's room like slicing the pie into Homer and Marge's room.
- [05:05]
Griffin McElroy
Does it put a thumb on the scale of where players drop when you kind of like turn the different destinations into a bit of like tourism in that way Cause I feel like it'll be a real hotspot.
- [05:18]
Russ Frushtick
Well, they have. Fortnite always has, like, hot spots, if you will, that people are meant to gravitate towards. But it's not just the house. There's also the power plant and the city hall, and all sorts of stuff are represented.
- [05:33]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The Simpsons fans have been chasing this dream since the first year that this damn show came out. And we've got a lot of versions of this, beginning with my favorite 3D recreation, the 3D Simpsons PC game that moved at about four frames per second, but it did let you go around a version of the Simpsons house. Then we got Simpsons hit and run. We have so many damn games. What is wild about this, and I think I said this to you fresh while we were playing, is, oh, this is what happens if you have that AAA budget or you have that Grand Theft Auto style sense of awe where every time you crest a hill, you are stunned that they put that much effort into whatever you're seeing.
- [06:19]
Russ Frushtick
I want to take a step back before we get too deep into it, because I think there's probably a lot of people.
- [06:25]
Griffin McElroy
I did not play Simpsons Fortnite. I covered some other stuff for this week, so I'm desperate to hear, is it a season? Is it a. I think there are.
- [06:34]
Russ Frushtick
A lot of people that haven't played Fortnite in a while. I, for what it's worth, have been. I started playing Fortnite when Battle Royale started launching, and then I went dark for, like, two years. But I've been basically playing every season for the last, like, three years. So as you imagine, Fortnite is fun.
- [06:51]
Justin McElroy
To talk about, is just fun to play. Yeah, it's not fun to podcast about. It's just fun to play and enjoy.
- [06:57]
Griffin McElroy
Except now it's so out of pocket. I think it.
- [07:00]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, I mean, this was a pretty extreme moment. So in this case, normally a season is about three months. But they've been doing these mini seasons that usually occur right around this time of year that focus on, like, a specific franchise. So last year was a Star Wars.
- [07:19]
Griffin McElroy
That was the one where you can make Darth Vader say, fuck yes, right?
- [07:22]
Russ Frushtick
Or Darth Vader. And he had thoughts about cryptocurrency. So that was last year. And this year they're doing Simpsons. And I think last year the map was, like, had, like, mostly Star wars stuff, but there were still, like, a lot of Fortnite stuff carried through. This was like, they started from zero and built Springfield from scratch within.
- [07:42]
Justin McElroy
So the whole map at Grif is like any big landmark from Springfield you can think about is there. It's all rendered in like a pretty large scale and like crucial characters are in the world at those locations and there's quests tied to like going to.
- [07:57]
Griffin McElroy
Find them and not even just the.
- [07:59]
Russ Frushtick
Macro, but also the micro. So if you were to walk into the Kwik E Mart, for example, there would be show accurate magazines and snacks and shit like that.
- [08:09]
Justin McElroy
That's.
- [08:10]
Griffin McElroy
That's. It's profoundly wild.
- [08:12]
Justin McElroy
It's like wildly detailed. Every environment is like that. Like you can run around Springfield elementary, you can walk around. Oh, fucking. The. The best one, right? I parachuted onto the side of this, the power plant, onto a balcony, right. Walked into the huge glass doors into Mr. Burns office, hit the button on his desk to drop the trap door in front of him, then drop down the trap door to where the. Oh, first of all, I released the hounds. There's release the hounds, which makes hounds go around the area and attack people who are at the. In the region. And they. I think that's at the Burns. The Burns Manor. And then you can push the button for the trapdoor and go down into the trapdoor and there's like treasure down there and it's. That's all fully rendered too.
- [08:59]
Griffin McElroy
And you have to dig your way out of it.
- [09:01]
Justin McElroy
Like it's.
- [09:02]
Russ Frushtick
It's truly wild. The fact that they made this engine.
- [09:05]
Christopher Thomas Plant
So complete also that they need to still have Fortnite stuff in it because that is ultimately their brand. So they have made Simpsons versions of Fortnite characters. Yes. Like the Peely.
- [09:20]
Russ Frushtick
Well, Peely, but Peely is later revealed might just be Professor Frink who transformed himself into a banana.
- [09:27]
Griffin McElroy
I do like that a lot of.
- [09:29]
Justin McElroy
The story still, unfortunately.
- [09:30]
Griffin McElroy
Can I say I've been. I was going to play this already, Russ. That pushed me over the edge to where I might actually start to download in the middle of this podcast. That's very, very strong. Very, very strong.
- [09:41]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And then there are Disney animated shorts set also within this stuff.
- [09:48]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, they made like several four minute shorts.
- [09:52]
Griffin McElroy
So explain what that means. How do you watch. Does it just like appear? Is it like a cut scene or.
- [09:57]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You can go to Disney and. Because Simpsons is on Disney and then they have shorts that they release, you know, like every couple months. And they have Fortnite shorts that they're airing every week that are related to.
- [10:10]
Justin McElroy
Trans Mania and you can also watch.
- [10:12]
Russ Frushtick
Them in the game as well.
- [10:14]
Griffin McElroy
Okay, that's what I was more curious about.
- [10:17]
Justin McElroy
There's also a lot of battle pass Stuff, there's characters, there's like increasingly specific references. Like the battle pass, it starts out with like basic characters and you get like Ned Flanders and then you get like Zombie Marge and then there's like Homer in a devil costume. And then Ned Flanders stuff is like man. Like the glider is a huge mustache. This is like has trimming shooting out of it. Like there's a.
- [10:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
All his alternate costume is nothing at all is the ski suit.
- [10:47]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, the ski suit.
- [10:47]
Justin McElroy
His like all the props are. So there's like a left handed emergency kit that's like his back piece that Flanders wear. Like that's just that one character. Like there's so many different unlockable little in gags like that for the show.
- [11:01]
Griffin McElroy
So Russ, you might be able to speak more to this. Having played all these seasons. What is the fate of this content once this mini season is over?
- [11:12]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, that's a good question. So traditionally it basically vanishes. There is an element that I'm not 100% up on, on the creative side of Fortnite where people like can make their own maps and things like that. Whether that means that it could be playable or experienceable after the fact. I know part of the challenge here is like just keeping download sizes down. Like you can't just keep this map downloadable for everyone forever because it just makes the scale of the Fortnite download too huge. But it would be as Plant said when we were playing, it would be a real shame if hardcore Simpsons fans only found out about this a month later. Like this. The season ends at the end of November. So realistically this is your chance, right? If you found the game in December and you wouldn't be able to play this map, that's a real damn shame.
- [12:02]
Justin McElroy
I think that they will. I would, I mean, obviously they could bring it back, but I, I, I feel like they'll leave it. I was interested. It's been a long time since I logged into Fortnite and I was really interested to see the extent to which those experiences. It's starting to look a lot, it's beginning to look a lot like Roblox. Like the, A lot of the those experiences that are like there's a sort of role playing category and it's like all those like obbies and like K Pop Demon Hunter. Grow a garden tycoon. All that stuff from Roblox is happening in Fortnite with just like better mechanics.
- [12:37]
Russ Frushtick
And like there's actually a recent lawsuit over a game called Steal the Brain Rot, which apparently is very big in Roblox. That also got ported to Fortnite and who owns the rights to that. So it's getting very dicey on that front as well.
- [12:51]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, but there was more experiences that, like, I actually got my kids into Fortnite. Like, they both played. We played trios and got a victory royale. It was crazy. Like, it was. It was a lot of fun. So that matching is still working, like, really well because us three dorks were able to get in and have a. Have a good match. So I don't know.
- [13:07]
Griffin McElroy
We have to share that. Yesterday, Justin got in the Bessie slack and excitedly shared that him and Charlie got a victory Royale. And then 21 minutes or 20 minutes later, Russ said, this was my win from yesterday, and put up a video of him winning a victory royale. And Plant did point out fairly that Justin got a victory royale with his kid flexed with a solo royale. It was a really. And as me, like, as a spectator to that whole thing. It was so uncomfortable.
- [13:38]
Justin McElroy
Guys. I didn't see all that stuff play out. I just told you guys about the great stuff in my life in the movie. I know.
- [13:45]
Russ Frushtick
And I was sharing the great stuff in my life, too. It doesn't mean it's a flex or a challenge.
- [13:51]
Justin McElroy
I didn't take it that way.
- [13:52]
Russ Frushtick
I didn't take that way either.
- [13:53]
Justin McElroy
I didn't take it at all. But had I taken it, I wouldn't have taken it that way.
- [13:56]
Russ Frushtick
We can all have good moments in our lives. It's okay.
- [13:59]
Justin McElroy
There is this part of me whenever I play Fortnite. There's this part of me. It's like, man, are we wasting our time? Should we have stopped here? This is fun, you know? Like, I feel like we. There's. I should. I would be a happier person if I was like, I'm just gonna play some fucking Fortnite this month.
- [14:15]
Griffin McElroy
Sure.
- [14:16]
Justin McElroy
And I'm not gonna do other stuff. I'm not gonna play. I can't. Fortnite is, like, working so hard to just be fun and play it. And I was like, why do I keep putting myself.
- [14:24]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Justin, this. This pays our bills. There is not an insignificant number of people who listen to this very show who do only have time to play Fortnite and maybe, like, two other games. And then they listen to us because it's our job to go out bravely, I might add, into the world to play those other games on their behalf and then to come back and to tell them, hey, don't worry. We got you covered. We can tell you what to say at the cocktail parties. You're all going to. You keep playing Fortnite. We're here for you. This is great.
- [14:59]
Griffin McElroy
We need a new heuristic here on the besties that we apply to every game we talk about, which is, is it worth pulling yourself away for a few minutes from the sweet, glowing pleasure box of Fortnite, this incredible, joyous sandbox? Is it worth a little bit of that sweet Fortnite time or not? I don't know.
- [15:22]
Russ Frushtick
Justin, I have a question for you. Specifically.
- [15:24]
Justin McElroy
Hit me.
- [15:26]
Russ Frushtick
Last year during Game of the Year period, and before it, there was a little game called Astrobot.
- [15:31]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [15:32]
Russ Frushtick
And one of the points you made about Astrobot, which is not totally off base, I definitely can see your perspective, is that it really is just one giant fucking ad for PlayStation and its brand.
- [15:42]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, right.
- [15:44]
Russ Frushtick
How do you feel about Fortnite, which is not just the Simpsons ad at this point, but also a multimedia brand ad for, like, Marvel and Disney? You name it.
- [15:55]
Justin McElroy
I mean, it's pretty whack, obviously. I think. I think it's all pretty whack.
- [16:01]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [16:02]
Justin McElroy
I mean, it is, but it's also, like, if you're a fan of something and you do, like. Like, this is a very. To me. Okay, okay, okay. For me, here's the difference. This is a very, like, healthy and, like, rewarding way of engaging with something that people love. Right. This isn't like. This feels less like, capitalizing on and more like.
- [16:23]
Russ Frushtick
I mean, they do do capitalization.
- [16:25]
Justin McElroy
They do capitalize on it, but it's.
- [16:26]
Griffin McElroy
Like Simpsons, like, celebratory.
- [16:29]
Justin McElroy
To me, this feels like it's. And there's, like. To me, there's so much more in here than you could ever, like, like, just kind of experience in one run. It's, like, very loving, very, like, thoughtfully recreated, very richly detailed. And also, like, free.
- [16:50]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah.
- [16:51]
Justin McElroy
An Astrobot.
- [16:52]
Russ Frushtick
So long as you have willpower, it's free.
- [16:54]
Griffin McElroy
Also, Russ, you should know this, that when we're trying to lobby and position games in the Game of the Year discussion, we all say a lot of shit we don't mean. We will say fucking anything to get true.
- [17:07]
Justin McElroy
I just didn't like it because I like guns and coins and stuff.
- [17:11]
Russ Frushtick
And coins.
- [17:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
There's one other detail here, too, which is Astrobot doesn't have, like, Mario coming in and then punching Astrobot in the donk.
- [17:20]
Justin McElroy
That's a cycle. Yeah, you're 100% right.
- [17:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
What makes this work, weirdly for me is a sensation that there were people on every single creative team that has partnered with Fortnite and Epic that was pissed about a decision that still ended up going through in the game. There are so many people who would be thrilled if it was just their. Their IP during their IP time. And you couldn't have the crossovers, or you couldn't have your characters have guns, or you couldn't do all. I mean, there are, I would say, rumors of very, very intense fights over which characters could wear shoes once they added shoes because of, like, very specific partnerships with, like, Nike and Reebok.
- [18:09]
Russ Frushtick
I mean, it's very clear, like, LeBron has a skin in the game.
- [18:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [18:13]
Russ Frushtick
The fact that he can wear a fucking. I don't know what he has deal with. Adidas is, like, so counter to the idea of, like, that would never be allowed in an advertisement on court, whatever it is. But because Fortnite got so fucking big, Epic was able to use their legal strong arming to just let them do whatever.
- [18:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And so this isn't the, like, you know, IP free or, like, lawyer free IP freely that some people would like. It is also not just being able to play with your toys, but it is so leaps and bounds further than any other one of these sorts of collaborations that it feels still funky and weird and unlike anything else, which I think allows it to stay fresh despite it being a collision of a thousand different commercials.
- [18:58]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, that's really the reason why I've been playing Fortnite for the last, whatever, however many years is just. They do a very good job of keeping it fresh in ways that, like, pubg didn't. Like, they just didn't know how to scale it or the engine couldn't handle it, whatever it is. And here every month or two, the game is changing in either minor or major ways such that I can remain interested. And also, I just use it as a. It's my Golf equivalent. Like, I have. I take meetings during it and, like, discuss actual work.
- [19:28]
Justin McElroy
Yeah. Crazy.
- [19:29]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah.
- [19:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I do a job, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:33]
Russ Frushtick
I mean, it's.
- [19:34]
Christopher Thomas Plant
No, you do. I've been on those calls with you. It's kind of incredible.
- [19:39]
Justin McElroy
I think there's also something to be said, though, for, like, these. These things are going, like, I want to bring up the Roblox thing again. These sorts of, like, IP mashup, like, capitalizations will happen outside of the stakeholders in those things. And I think that a lot of the ways that you, like. I've seen my kids try to play games on Roblox that are, like, just utter garbage with, like, the thinnest veneer of some IP that they, like, put onto It. I think there's a big difference. Like, there was a mini. There was like, a Disneyland adventure within Fortnite, right?
- [20:13]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah.
- [20:13]
Justin McElroy
And I. When I went into that, I. I had never seen this, but, like, you go in, it's like kind of a cool recreation of the park. And there's. It's, like, dropping you into mini games that are set in the attractions. You're like. Like running around, you know, realized versions of these and, like, doing little mini games and stuff. It's like. It's so much better. I mean, it's just better. It's, like, better content. It's, like, better stuff. It's. It's worthwhile. It's more attractive. It's, like, more pleasurable to engage with. And I think that that is a meaningful difference where it's, like, not some AI garbage that some robot is cranking out based on whatever IP you plug into it, but it's like, people who at least care about these. These properties are doing something interesting with them. In Fortnite.
- [20:53]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah.
- [20:54]
Justin McElroy
It's also, by the way, the Roblox parallel is a little bit off because Roblox is almost instant, because the assets are endemic to Roblox, and. And a lot of these Fortnite, like, mini experiences, they want to try to lure kids into, like, this. There's a download that you have to do before you can, like, get into it, because there's a lot more assets in the Fortnite experiences than the Roblox experiences. So I don't know if they're going to get there because it's, like. It's tough when your friends, like, come play this with me. And there's a couple minutes where you got to wait for it to download, where Roblox is always, like, so seamless. It's like, I jumped into this. Come jump in with me.
- [21:23]
Griffin McElroy
The number. When we used to stream Fortnite, the number of streams, we had to start late because one of us wouldn't realize that there was a fucking, you know, 25 gigabyte patch to get Peter Griffin in the mix was quite frequent.
- [21:37]
Russ Frushtick
Last thing I'll say on this, as definitely a fan of what they're doing. Obviously, I'm still, you know, there's no better representation of the consolidation of power within the games industry than, like, Epic and Fortnite and what they're doing. So I'm. There's also that, like, a little bit bitter pill in the aspect, but with that power, they are making a good game. So I feel a little bit torn on that front But I will say I watched a YouTube video. It was just like a YouTube short of someone playing as Goku gliding in, landing on the Simpsons roof, going through the door and sitting on the couch with like fucking Darth Vader and several other like known characters and the Simpsons theme playing like it was the beginning of like a Simpsons couch gag. And I, three years ago, if I'd seen that video, I'd be like, oh, that was. That's fucking AI. Like that's a joke. And the fact that it exists in the real world as like a legitimate game is wild. So that's kind of the. It really is the peak of what they've been trying to do for many years.
- [22:40]
Griffin McElroy
Am I going to be, if I start playing now, am I going to be like, way behind?
- [22:45]
Justin McElroy
You have such a good time.
- [22:46]
Russ Frushtick
There's no behind in fort.
- [22:48]
Justin McElroy
I'll play this afternoon.
- [22:49]
Griffin McElroy
It's Fortnite.
- [22:49]
Justin McElroy
You just play.
- [22:50]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Depends on how long it's been. If it's like you haven't played since beginning, you'll be like, oh, wait, there's. You can super jump and there are cars.
- [22:57]
Griffin McElroy
No, I mean, I can look and see. The last time we streamed, you can.
- [22:59]
Justin McElroy
Eat a blinky fish and do teleport jumps. Now you can be squishy and have super speed.
- [23:05]
Russ Frushtick
Also, if you haven't played in a while, I'm not going to tell this to Justin because it might hurt his feelings. But if you haven't played in a while, they'll probably match you with bots. So it'll be really.
- [23:13]
Justin McElroy
Dude, there's no argument in my head about that. Sorry, was I. Sorry, was I? No, it's. It seemed like all bots, everyone was very bad. But I think the last person, the last like three people we killed seemed like they were angry. So they might have been real, but pretty much everybody else just kind of took it. I was playing with a 7 and 11 year old man. I was not bragging. I'm just saying it's a really, It's a great matchmaking experience.
- [23:36]
Russ Frushtick
It is.
- [23:36]
Justin McElroy
That's really the only thing I want to point out. Yeah.
- [23:38]
Griffin McElroy
Is there a better fucking moment? I play some competitive games with Henry on Roblox sometimes. Is there a better moment than when you can fucking clutch up a win in front of your child in that experience? Holy shit, man. I feel so tall.
- [23:51]
Justin McElroy
Cooper had to bail because it was too intense.
- [23:54]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Is there a better moment than you see that joy in your kid's eye and then you turn to him and go, yeah, but they were all bots. So like.
- [24:04]
Justin McElroy
Uncle Uncle Russ texted him to let him know privately they got another truth.
- [24:08]
Russ Frushtick
It's important.
- [24:09]
Griffin McElroy
Can we take a break and then I'll talk about the future of esports?
- [24:12]
Russ Frushtick
Yes.
- [24:16]
Griffin McElroy
Hi, I'm Griffin McRoy and my grumbly tumbly needs all the help that it can get to do the basic stuff that you ask your stomach to do as a human being. The problem is that my diet isn't always the most balanced. This time of year it is a lot of poultry meats and a lot of sweet taters and I need a little bit of extra help, some digestive support. Good news. Ritual Synbiotic plus has got my back. Or rather my biome. Ritual Symbiotic plus is designed with a delayed release capsule to help reach the colon, not the stomach. You don't want them in the stomach. The colon is where you want your probiotics to sort of hunker down and grow and do their business. I've been taking Ritual's daily men's multivitamin for years now and I don't do a lot for my sort of nutrient health. And it is nice to know that, you know, ritual is helping me fill in the gaps where I'm not getting the stuff I need from my again largely poultry and sweet tater based diet. So get your gut going. Support a balanced gut microbiome with Rituals Symbiotic plus, our listeners get early access to their Black Friday sale for 40% off your first month at ritual.combesties. that's ritual.combesties for 40% off your first month. So don't miss out on their best sale of the season.
- [25:42]
Russ Frushtick
This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know Alienware's biggest sale of the season lets you unleash peak performance at Black Friday savings. Save on select Alienware PCs like the groundbreaking Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop, taking performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. Plus you can save on all the latest accessories and displays like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor. Visit alienware.com deals before those time limited savings end.
- [26:21]
Griffin McElroy
I haven't played a game in my life that has turned me off faster than queue up. Have you guys fucked with it yet?
- [26:28]
Justin McElroy
No, I tried to but it wouldn't work. On Steam Deck you needed mouse and keyboards real quick.
- [26:33]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, there's no controller support, which is a huge bummer because it would. I was actually playing it on my rog ally last night. You can like kind of move the cursor around. And anyway, that's a weird way to start. You start the game up and it asks you to, like, do some settings, like come up with this random number for a random number generator. There's like some gag shit of like, turn up mouse sensitivity, rate the game, but then you can turn up developer sensitivity. And the higher you turn it, the more stars you end up giving the game. It is like so full of these gags about modern games as service kind of contrivances that are objectively very funny. But then it drops you into the game with fucking no explanation as to what's going on or what you're doing here. And it is very much a game about kind of like unpacking what's happening here.
- [27:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And what's happening is you are flipping coins.
- [27:29]
Griffin McElroy
You're flipping a coin and it's either gonna be heads or tails, Q or up in this game. And wait, which one is Q and.
- [27:36]
Russ Frushtick
Which one is up?
- [27:37]
Griffin McElroy
It doesn't fucking matter, man. Q is heads up his tails. Okay, I think that's, that's, that's probably the best you got backwards, Griff. No. Okay, maybe you are, you queue. You genuinely do join a matchmaking queue. Because this game does have real. I believe it's.
- [27:54]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [27:55]
Griffin McElroy
So it has online play. I believe it's like asynchronous where like, once, okay, you queue up with a team, like, it automatically runs all the math of what's going to happen. I don't think it's actually happening in real time because there's certain prompts you can like, dismiss or not dismiss. And I don't see how that would happen if, you know, eight players were all kind of doing the same thing. So you're put on a team of four, and then first to three wins after coin flips, wins the match. And then you go back to the, the, you know, fucking Fortnite splash screen sort of games as service menu where you can look at the shop and you can check your messages and you can form a party and like, it has all of these trappings that make you think like they've genuinely made like an overwatch of coin flipping. So that's.
- [28:42]
Justin McElroy
How did you feel? How did that make you feel, Griffin?
- [28:44]
Griffin McElroy
Bad. Bad and not good and confused and not great.
- [28:48]
Justin McElroy
Is it a joke?
- [28:49]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Then you get some messages pretty quickly.
- [28:50]
Griffin McElroy
Then you start getting messages, right? Uh oh, and that's where the. You start to get some explanations for the rules in these messages. Like, hey, when you have these skills that activate these certain points, here's what that actually means. Here's what these different currencies are actually for. Here's what's actually going on. You get messages from, like, people who are like, wow, you seem like you're winning maybe a little bit too much. Here's some currencies for you to use. You start to invest in the that side of things, the not coin flipping side of things. And that's when the game kind of reveals itself for what it is, which is an incremental game. The new jam from Frank Lance, who made Universal Paperclips, which I think kind of established a lot of the norms of the genre of incremental idle games. Only the incremental, the building that you're doing, the strengthening that you're doing, is all entirely personal. So you have a hero that you pick sort of overwatch style. You only have a handful unlocked at the beginning. You can unlock more as you go along. Each hero has like a different little modifier, a different little thing. But for the most part, a lot of the payoff comes in this huge skill grid. Each hero has like, certain special skills, but then you'll unlock skills that you can place in the grid wherever you want. Those skills will trigger on wins. So if your team wins a flip, it'll trigger this skill. Some of them trigger on losses, some of them trigger when the game starts, some of them trigger when the game ends. Genuinely, anything you can think that could happen in a very simple first to three coin flip challenge. They have found a way to make a game mechanic out of it in some way. Sometimes you'll have skills that trigger other skills. So it'll say, like, on a loss, this one will activate all the skills surrounding this node. And you start to build these insane chain reactions to maximize the currencies that you get for each win and loss and match. Win and match loss, right? So you can get a bunch of skills. Or there's also gear. There's items that you buy in a shop that you, like, have a loadout equipped that basically do kind of the same thing. Like this will give you 500 XP each round. That will be multiplied maybe by your skills. You're trying to like build these multipliers and build these chain reactions and utilize your heroes like special abilities. But like, none of that shit affects the coin flip. You don't get a skill that makes you win more coin flips.
- [31:18]
Russ Frushtick
Okay.
- [31:19]
Griffin McElroy
Vitally, you don't get any kind of ability that will make it more likely that your team will win a coin flip. The coin flips are going to happen. And then the points that you get for the result of that coin flip are entirely your shit, entirely your build, entirely everything. So, like the only kind of messages.
- [31:36]
Christopher Thomas Plant
If I can just hop in really quickly.
- [31:37]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, please, please.
- [31:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The messages that you will get will be from the game creators. And if, let's say that you lose four rounds in a row in each round, you lose in a shutout like you, you didn't get a single coin flip, right? You will get a message that's like, fairness is our top priority. Something seems to be amiss here. We've rejiggered the flip flops and we are assuring you that there is peak fairness happening at all times. And as you know, a sign of gratitude. Take these coins and then you will take those coins and there will be a eula, which if you actually read the eula, thousands of words at the bottom, it will be like. And also we now own all of the rounds of your game. We own all of your personal data, we own all of this shit which then will have a link to another story. And that's the other side of the game, which is the visual novel side of things.
- [32:34]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah. So there's, there's a whole news feed where you will see like on the splash screen like of all the legal trouble that like the company that made this game is getting in. But it's like a fake, it's a real website, but it's like a fictionalized like in universe sort of coverage of the queue up esport, what all of that is like. It's really funny and it's like really, really, once you kind of understand what it is and how it doesn't really impact the coin flips or like the build shit that you get into, these like chain reactions you try to build between your skills and your items and your hero skills to make it so you can get like billions and billions and billions of points with a single match of queue up. Whether you win or lose. You could have a setup where like you have items that trigger on losses and you have skills that trigger on losses so that when you lose, you get more points than you do when you win. It's all about like how your build allows you to harvest resources from the matches whether you win or you or you lose. And engaging with that stuff is so confusing at the start because it doesn't explain fucking anything. And it kind of slow rolls that shit out to you. The multiplayer aspect of it is really great because there is like a ranking system sort of like watch style for.
- [33:58]
Russ Frushtick
A second do we know for sure that the multiplayer is real multiplayer?
- [34:01]
Griffin McElroy
Yes, it is real multiplayer. And the reason that you know that, my favorite part about the multiplayer is you will see people on your team and people on the other team. Like, you'll win a flip and then you will see that they have just earned 72 quadrillion points. And it's like, how the fuck. What is your setup that you were able to get that right? So it's like imagine you're playing Universal Paperclips, only there was like asynchronous multiplayer and you could see that this person was getting shit in the exponential Googleplex. There's also certain interactions. Like one of the characters has a skill called, I think, meta awareness. And what that skill does is you pick one of the playable characters in the game and if that player is on the other team when you start, it adds a point to this meta awareness stat that will then multiply your score or do all this other shit. But if you guess wrong and that player's not on the team, that stat resets. So it's genuinely knowing, okay, which characters are people playing the most. And if I pick that, then it's actually gonna give me this stat. Like, that is what that whole character is kind of based around. It's just like all this stuff about the coin flip esports and the overwatch sort of pastiche and all that shit is all a joke. But they also have made a game mechanic out of the trappings of it. The system of menus of it.
- [35:22]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's a thing at the end of any game where it adds up your score and it has all these different bonuses. Except for you are designing the contraption that creates that math.
- [35:31]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, right.
- [35:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
That's. The whole game is creating the bonus chain and optimizing it, knowing that you can actually have it go the other way too. You can actually design a chain that destroys.
- [35:44]
Griffin McElroy
Yes. When you lose, it gives you a base score of like minus 500 points to your ranking.
- [35:50]
Justin McElroy
Right.
- [35:50]
Griffin McElroy
If you have like a bunch of shit that like, just multiplies your score, then that will go. You will lose so many points, you have to have shit in there that will just like add some base score to counteract that. Because you don't want to, like, multiply a negative number. It'll really fuck you over. So, like, that is. That is the side of things. That is the incremental part of things. You're earning gold that you use to buy items. You're earning XP to, like, level up your heroes and get.
- [36:14]
Russ Frushtick
But the like, end results. And I realize this is a weird thing to ask about an idle game, but, like, the end. The end goal, I should say, is like learning more about the universe. The, like, visual.
- [36:24]
Griffin McElroy
I mean, the end goal is to, like, build these insane chain reaction things with your skills and items. That is the end goal of. Of this as an incremental game.
- [36:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Right. And then for narrative, I think what Frank and his team are getting at is one, the absurdity of fairness in competitive games, that you have people who want fairness but then also want upgrade, pass constantly. And then also the way that if a game does have fairness, how it can loop you into all of these other mechanisms that are the separate metagame that you can play that keeps you spending money and keeps you buying coins and all of that stuff. It is a game that is very much grappling with the anxiety of it's grappling with Fortnite.
- [37:11]
Griffin McElroy
I think it's saying less. I think Overwatch is a more apt comparison. Obviously, it's saying a lot about games as service and the sort of intrusiveness of that kind of formula, but for me, it feels less like a shot at Fortnite and more a shot at.
- [37:27]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Esports and petty esplicity.
- [37:28]
Russ Frushtick
Sure, that makes sense.
- [37:30]
Griffin McElroy
But also when you build a chain reaction that gives you a fucking ton of points, it feels pretty. It does scratch that universal paperclips, incremental game. Like, holy shit, I'm rich. It does hit the number, go up, itch.
- [37:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
That's the trick, right, though. That's what Frank is so good at. And I think Lucas Pope is so good at with something like papers, please, where it's, hey, we are going to make the thing that we are critiquing feel good. So you get how it became powerful.
- [38:00]
Griffin McElroy
Absolutely. It's a really interesting game. I do wish there was controller support, because I think I would play it a lot more on my Rog Ally X. But it's one of the more compelling incremental games I've played in a while.
- [38:15]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, it's very interesting. Do you want to dive into some reader mail?
- [38:19]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, I'd like that, if you don't mind.
- [38:21]
Russ Frushtick
This letter comes from Alexander. Hi, besties. My parents have never played a video game in their life, but they are now retired and they've developed an interest in trying some out. They even went so far as to buy an Xbox series X. I'm glad they're still selling, y'. All.
- [38:35]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [38:35]
Russ Frushtick
And two controllers. My question for you guys is, what are some games you'd recommend that are simple enough for to be fun for people who are learning to use a controller and understand game language, but whose content and themes are interesting and engaging for adults. Which I think is a different request than we've gotten past about teaching kids to play games. So far I've gotten them Portal 2, but would love some other suggestions. Two player games would be especially welcome. Thanks. I have one, although I hesitate to.
- [39:04]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Give it is It Takes Two.
- [39:07]
Russ Frushtick
It's either It Takes Two or Split Fiction. Oh God, I hesitate to give it.
- [39:12]
Justin McElroy
Did you edit on a part where they say they don't love their parents?
- [39:17]
Russ Frushtick
I think for someone that has really never played games much at all or.
- [39:22]
Justin McElroy
Heard a story before, like, that's the problem with split fiction is like, that's very insulting if they've read a bunch of. I have to assume they've ingested other media if they haven't been playing games this whole time, right?
- [39:32]
Griffin McElroy
So, like, I think missing the split fiction episode of this podcast has truly put a pretty wide gap between me and I feel like the rest. I feel like something happened in that episode.
- [39:43]
Justin McElroy
The gap is between you and the listeners. Like, that's where the gap is.
- [39:47]
Russ Frushtick
We're over here. Some of the listeners agree with us, some of them don't.
- [39:50]
Griffin McElroy
That's okay, because I think that, man.
- [39:54]
Justin McElroy
I'm continually like kind of bowled over by how good the jackbox games are at getting non gamers into games by using a device that they already feel comfortable with. Like, we played the. Not to get into honorable mentions, but I played the 11 compilation that came out for my birthday. We had some people over and it was like a wide range of people never played a game before, but there's like a. They have a new sort of like murder mystery game in there where you have to answer, you have to answer personal questions about yourself and then one of you is the murderer. And the way they hint at people is they reveal answers that this person gave to the personality quiz. So you're like trying to find the criminal by how well you know their personality. And there's one in every round that's a lie. So you have to try to like figure out there's like fake information. But that's like, that's like a parlor game that's right on the edge of digital. And like, I think that that's a really good place to get people in for stuff.
- [40:54]
Russ Frushtick
Although it doesn't use a controller, right? You're using phones for that.
- [40:57]
Justin McElroy
So yeah, you can use phones. And what I think is for me I think the best thing about them is that they are like on streaming services. Like they're not just on Steam. Because for me, I don't have it like endemic that Steam can be on my living room tv. Right. It takes a few cords being plugged in, but I can just press a button on the Apple TV and like the jackbox will start up there. So that's kind of nice.
- [41:22]
Griffin McElroy
I feel like Portal 2 is a wild first pick. It's obviously a great game and I think you get there. But I mean, in introducing games to both of my kids at this point, there's a certain amount of easing in to like familiarity with a controller before operating. Two thumbsticks at the same time and one of those thumbs has to move over to buttons and one of them has to move over to a secondary D pad. Like that is really pretty difficult to understand if you've really clearly these people.
- [41:55]
Russ Frushtick
Are using bumper jumpers, so that's not an issue.
- [41:57]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, that sounded like I assumed they were using bumper jumpers.
- [42:04]
Russ Frushtick
I sort of get it with Portal 2 because you are for most of the early game, in a, quote, safe space to learn everything. The other thing I wanted to call.
- [42:13]
Justin McElroy
Out a break is half TV show.
- [42:16]
Griffin McElroy
That's true. Yeah. You can really relax.
- [42:18]
Justin McElroy
So you can take it, like take a break from playing video games if that gets to be a bit much.
- [42:23]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah.
- [42:24]
Russ Frushtick
Stardew Co Op would probably be another option.
- [42:27]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, I was going to say that too. And it's not a bad idea.
- [42:29]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I think. Also any of the beat em ups like Castle Crashers, we've talked about quite a few of these lately that I think are solid. Yeah. Any of the story games Until Dawn? I don't know if Until Dawn's not on Xbox.
- [42:43]
Russ Frushtick
Oh, the first season of Walking Dead would be very good.
- [42:47]
Griffin McElroy
Yes.
- [42:47]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, that's not bad.
- [42:48]
Russ Frushtick
I played that essentially in co op with my wife and it was a really great experience.
- [42:52]
Griffin McElroy
That was a definite like easing Rachel into. We played through all of those and she played anything else.
- [42:59]
Justin McElroy
I think Blue Prince would be. I mean it's not two players, but it's definitely a two. Like it's a two part. It could be. It's a great two person experience. I've heard from a ton of people that played it with a partner and really enjoyed it. Yeah.
- [43:10]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. And last one. Anything with Lego at the beginning of the title, it's good to avoid.
- [43:16]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [43:17]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Now Lego Voyager, stuff like that, that'll be good.
- [43:20]
Justin McElroy
Once you played one of them, you played them literally all. But I guess if they've never played even one of them, then you could get them one.
- [43:25]
Christopher Thomas Plant
There you go.
- [43:26]
Russ Frushtick
There you go. You have five voyagers. Justin, you don't know. Change the game.
- [43:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's a delight.
- [43:31]
Justin McElroy
Voyagers changed the game, y'.
- [43:32]
Griffin McElroy
All.
- [43:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I want to hear some honorable mentions because I know folks have been playing some other stuff, watching some good stuff, I'm sure. Hoops, you got a good book that you're gonna tell me about?
- [43:42]
Justin McElroy
I. No, man.
- [43:43]
Russ Frushtick
Good book.
- [43:44]
Justin McElroy
I only read, like, really spicy stuff, like, really steamy stuff, and it wouldn't be appropriate for this audience. I just finished Bride. It was very, very, very, very sexy. Hot stuff. Mates up next. Looking forward to it. Not the topic today. I want to tell you about Haunted Hotel. I know. What's that? It's a show. It really did come out on Netflix, which is one of the big ones. It stars Will Forte as the owner of a hotel that is completely overrun with ghosts. And then he, in his, like, 30s or 40s, dies and leaves the hotel to his sister and her two kids and a demon named Abaddon, who also lives in the hotel. So Nathan is a ghost in the hotel, and he's getting adjusted to ghost life, and he is sort of the in between, between the ghosts and his sister. And this is like a long, struggling business. It does not do very well because of all the ghosts. And the stories are really like about the. The ghosts and how they interact with the family and how Nathan is adjusting to being non corporeal. It's. It's like. It's extremely funny. It's really funny. It's a little more, like, tonally. It is not unlike a Gravity Falls or stuff like that, but.
- [45:06]
Russ Frushtick
Oh, it's animated.
- [45:07]
Justin McElroy
It's animated. Sorry, I should have been more clear about that. Yeah, it is an animated series. And it's. It's. It's more grown up than those. It's. It's like a little more adult. Tonally. I think there's stuff that's, like, that would be kind of on the line for our kids.
- [45:21]
Russ Frushtick
Like a Beetlejuice tone.
- [45:23]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, Beetlejuice is a close. Yeah, Beetlejuice is, like, right. Right there. Not heavy on, like, the profanity or stuff, but there's, like, some pretty big questions. A lot of it is like, for instance, there's an area. There's an episode where Nathan, the ghost who's played by Royal Forte, starts sinking into the ground and will continue to sink into the core of the ground until he discovers the meaning of life. And he's Got a few days to figure it out. So he and his niece, the one of the, you know, the young girl who is the. The daughter of the mom who's inherited the hotel, have to figure out the meaning of life in like a few days before he sinks the. Into the earth. And there's like, murderers that died in the hotel and still try to kill the kids, but they're non corporeal, so the kids get a big kick out of it. That kind of like. It's that kind of thing, but it's like, it's very. It's just really, really funny. And it's. I feel like it's tough to find stuff. I think not tough. I think people are afraid to do comedy that is on the line of good taste because they don't know how to do it funny enough that they can get a. That they can sell it, right. So there's a lot of shows that I think aren't funny enough to get close to the line of like, what is, like, appropriate, what is it? And really, like, push the envelope in a way that. That it's just uncomfortable, right? It's just like actually trying to make you think about stuff and it's just on the line there. But it is funny enough that it sells it, right? That it can get into those, like, on topics that are on the edge and do them with, like, taste, but like, in a really, really genuinely funny way. And I think that that is what this show is. It is not like the sort of. I think there's an adult animation style that wanted to be so comforting for people that it got. Never got close to anything that approximated strife. You know, it's. It's a very sort of like, comfort watch kind of animation that adults have gotten into. This, to me, it feels a little bit more like I've got, I'm gonna say Married With Children, like that level of edge at that time period, if you know what I'm talking about, where it's like, it's not bad. It's just like, people don't normally talk about some of this stuff, so it's kind of. It feels bad. I feel edgier than maybe it is.
- [47:36]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The cast is killer. Eliza Coop, Skyler Jezondo, Jimmy Stimson.
- [47:42]
Griffin McElroy
Damn.
- [47:43]
Christopher Thomas Plant
So Diedrich Bader. Hell, yeah.
- [47:45]
Griffin McElroy
Oh, Dedrick. Yeah.
- [47:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Show fans stand up.
- [47:49]
Justin McElroy
There is an episode where the son, who's a little bit older, gets into a multiplicity kind of situation because the hotel, because it is haunted and so cursed. Like any number of magical things can happen. He Gets into a multiplicity situation where it's other sides of his own personality and discovers that, like, his mom prefers almost every other version of himself to him. So it's him trying to figure out how he can kill these other versions of himself because he's losing his mom's love. Or at least that is the impression. But that's kind of like. It's like. It's funny, it's like right on the line and it feels like mature in an actual way. But it's like. It's called Haunted Hotel. It's on Netflix and they're making another season according to Netflix, so.
- [48:38]
Russ Frushtick
Cool.
- [48:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sounds great.
- [48:39]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, it's great.
- [48:40]
Griffin McElroy
Can we talk about Luminesce?
- [48:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes.
- [48:44]
Griffin McElroy
Did anyone else play Luminesce Arise, the new jam?
- [48:46]
Russ Frushtick
Yeah, I played it. I know Plant played a little bit. We talked about it on Resty's as well. A bit. But.
- [48:53]
Griffin McElroy
So you've laid the groundwork. It's the new jam from Enhance, which is Tetsuya Mizuguchi. Is that his name? His studio creator of Rez and most recently Enhance made Tetris Effect. And I would say Luminous Arise is very, very, very much in that same sort of trance like aesthetic vein. I mean, Luminesce has always sort of been about that life. And Luminescent Rise, I think takes the. The knob of that trance like shit and turns it all the way up and then tears it off.
- [49:29]
Justin McElroy
Can you guys talk? The core. I feel like it's been a long time since Lumines had an intrigue. Can you talk about the core?
- [49:34]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I'm excited for this. I love to see people explain this.
- [49:37]
Russ Frushtick
I tried doing it on Restyz and I really struggled. So go for it.
- [49:40]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You got it. I believe it.
- [49:41]
Griffin McElroy
In Luminesce you have a board, a grid where you are dropping blocks. The blocks are two by two blocks and the segments of those blocks are one of two colors. The base, bog standard shit is like there'll be white squares and orange squares and some arrangement of those in a two by two little block. You're dropping those into this grid. It's affected by gravity. So if you drop half the block on a stack, the other half will fall down to the ground. When you create a 2x2 pattern, at least that is one color, then it kind of locks in. And what is also happening is set to the beat of usually trance music, there is a bar that sweeps across the grid as it passes by one of these completed 2x2 single color blocks. It clears it and you will get points if you can do four of those 2x2 blocks. You get like a multiplier, a combo. And if you can do that over multiple bars of music, these bars sweeping over that combo will increase more and more and more and more. You also don't want to fill up the grid and not have room to place a block, because then you will lose. You will lose the game. So the point of getting high scores is setting up these scenarios where you can build a combo where you build this huge structure of one color and then when it clears, it drops bricks of the other color onto other ones and they form their own huge bricks. And it's building combos and figuring out when you want to cash out a little segment that you've been setting up without creating a scenario where you've overfilled the board with these little isolated colors that aren't gonna clear.
- [51:20]
Justin McElroy
Now, my wife just says it's Tetris.
- [51:24]
Griffin McElroy
It has many similarities to Tetris, because Tetris, you're doing the same thing. You're trying to decide when you build and when you cash in so that you don't fuck yourself over. Luminous is very much doing that.
- [51:34]
Justin McElroy
However, I would say also the other element to Luminous is like, it is. And this is definitely the case with Arise. It's like, it's not just about the gameplay, but like the aesthetics that you are creating is like almost part of it. If you think about like Rez itself was based on a Win amp visualizer. This is like. This feels like that, like trying to take the. How can you take the gameplay and make like, bring it into the visuals and bring it into the sound. So it's like a synesthesia kind of kind of deal that.
- [52:06]
Griffin McElroy
That, like, I feel like that conversation always gets a little bit dicey in how much of that is just kind of like marketing buzz and all that shit with Luminesce. Because you are. The information you're working with is kind of inherently pretty simple. It's two colors and you want to keep them together. That's the basic premise is like, you don't want to create these little checkerboard patterns where there's 1 and 1 and 1 and they don't hit. You want to sort of match colors together. And that at a very base level is not hard to do. So you start operating with this sort of hind brain sort of thought process that then kind of like gets hooked with the. With the music that builds and flows and changes as you go. And so this, you know, it is trying to lull you into a Bit of a puzzle trance, which was very much what Tetris effect was aiming for as well here. I just think it's a little bit more inherent to the structure of Luminesce. The other thing that it adds is, like, as you clear these things, you're charging up a burst meter that you can activate by pulling a trigger, which then kind of freezes time a little bit, so you can drop blocks in to build these huge structures. As you widen the structures you're building of one color, blocks of the other color disappear from the board. So you can keep building and building and building and building until, like, you run out of time in the burst and it clears it in one sort of huge explosion that's, like, very, very satisfying.
- [53:32]
Russ Frushtick
And then a fucking chameleon comes out and, like, licks your face.
- [53:35]
Griffin McElroy
A chameleon will come out and lick your face. It is also like an oh, shit button that you can pull sometimes if the board is getting too dicey because it's a little bit effective. And I really like that addition a lot because, I don't know, Luminescence felt like a game that can break you out of that trance. When you're doing so bad, when you drop a few blocks incorrectly and you fuck up your structures and you feel like, oh, God, recovering from this is going to suck. It takes you out of the thing knowing that you have this option, this emergency break that you can.
- [54:02]
Justin McElroy
God, that's a really good. That's a really good. When you're doing Tetris, you're, like, seeing all these gaps, right? And when you mess up a spacing, it's like you just move on to another gap. Or like, another gap is created, in a sense. And, like, with Luminesce, it really does. You see this ugly, funky chunk of block. No, I'll never get to you. You suck.
- [54:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I hate it.
- [54:24]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah. There's also special blocks that will spawn in sometimes that will chain, so it will clear every block of one color as long as they are touching. So if you, like, have been very good and disciplined about, like, making sure you are not isolating these different colors, you can, like, really, really, really set up a huge combo with that, too. It's fucking great. It's really, really. I got really hooked on this, I think, on psp, and it was like the perfect game on PSP because you could just like, pick it up, pick it up, zone out, and, you know, do a little bit of score chasing. There's this whole, like, element of this game where you have a little avatar who's like this little fucking penguin shaped crystal dude. And you'll unlock new parts for him. And there's a gachapon where you can like unlock new parts.
- [55:08]
Justin McElroy
And some of the ways it reshapes items like, and. And like when your blocks merge, the way they merge is like aesthetically really cool. I'm flicking through some of the different. Like there's a. There's a. There's one where you're making like vegetables. You start off like small green things. And as you like do a block of four green things, it's like a larger broccoli. And then when the screen clears, it looks as though it's been like chopped in half. It's very cool.
- [55:33]
Griffin McElroy
I will say the soundtrack to this one hasn't. I can remember past luminous games playing them and then like saying like, oh fuck, I gotta. What was that song? And adding it to like a playlist. Cause I, you know, was really vibing with it.
- [55:45]
Russ Frushtick
Shining.
- [55:46]
Griffin McElroy
What's that?
- [55:47]
Russ Frushtick
Shinin.
- [55:48]
Griffin McElroy
Shinin.
- [55:48]
Russ Frushtick
That was like the big solo from that, the first game. I don't know if it's interesting.
- [55:52]
Griffin McElroy
I haven't played. I haven't played all the journeys and all the songs yet. So like maybe the. I just haven't gotten to them yet. But it's been a slightly different.
- [55:58]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And you know, you're a dad now, you're out of your house era. When you were playing this region, you were at the club every night getting.
- [56:06]
Justin McElroy
Up the race pacifier.
- [56:07]
Russ Frushtick
He was a big hataway guy.
- [56:08]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, for sure.
- [56:09]
Russ Frushtick
For sure.
- [56:11]
Griffin McElroy
I also wanted to talk about. I don't want to go too hard on talking about the Ayn Thor shit because we've talked about it so much. It's still infinitely insane to me that we have a 3Ds that you can basically do whatever on. And to that point I saw a Reddit post that some made of them playing Phantasy Star Online on their Ayn Thor, connected to the Internet using a ROM hack they designed for Dolphin GameCube emulation. Setting that all up took me like two days. But now I have a handheld where I can play Phantasy Star online on the GameCube with this custom rule set called Return to Ragol. And you can fucking play that shit online on your handheld with other players. And that is insane. Insane to me. That is patently so wild. I've been setting up Steam shit with Game Hub on it too. Which works.
- [57:01]
Justin McElroy
You doing Game Hub or Game Hub Lite?
- [57:03]
Griffin McElroy
Game Hub. And that works surprisingly well with some games. But the real highlight for me this week is I have a handheld version of Phantasy Star Online in a ROM hack that is way more fun to play than the original Phantasy Star Online.
- [57:17]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I'm going to drop in real quick fresh and then I'll throw it to you. But Humanity is my pick for this week.
- [57:23]
Justin McElroy
Hell yeah, dude. Yes.
- [57:24]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's so good.
- [57:26]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, we still got a little something left in us, dude. Heck yeah, man. I so agree with this. This is a big choice, man. Good for you.
- [57:33]
Griffin McElroy
Unpopular. Probably just from the current vibe, but like.
- [57:37]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, but like fuck yeah. What did we do? Did I miss something?
- [57:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
We as humanity are half off on steam right now. If you want to say Quiet.
- [57:48]
Justin McElroy
So there's a news pig. I love that.
- [57:52]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Before Luminous Arise, the same studio made a video game called Humanity where you play as a ghost dog Shiba Inu and you guide hundreds if not thousands of people through lemmings style puzzles. It is the most PlayStation 1 ass video game. Oh yeah, it is a total delight. And you can get it now for. I think it's like 15 bucks because of a sale thanks to Luminous. So you should check it out.
- [58:22]
Justin McElroy
Great.
- [58:23]
Russ Frushtick
Real quick.
- [58:24]
Justin McElroy
My.
- [58:25]
Russ Frushtick
I have two things. The first one is Hades 2, which I'm closing in on the end of Hades 2, which is exciting. I think when I finish it I'll. I'll have deeper thoughts, but just keeping the people updated on it. Justin, I would recommend just deleting your 40 hour save starting from scratch, but I realize you might not do that. The other thing I want.
- [58:45]
Justin McElroy
No, no, I mean like I'm. I. I have thought about it. I genuinely have. We just have so many other things to.
- [58:52]
Russ Frushtick
I know.
- [58:53]
Justin McElroy
That's kind of the heartbreaker about it. Like to be honest with you, I would love to say, yeah, I have the time to do that. I just don't.
- [58:58]
Russ Frushtick
I think it's a lesson is what it is for the future. Which is to say I think when the opportunity arises next time to play an early access game, maybe we play for three hours and then stop.
- [59:10]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's a good. We will be talking about this a lot next week. Yeah, I imagine so.
- [59:19]
Russ Frushtick
The other thing.
- [59:20]
Justin McElroy
You know what? Rachel is the only smart one among us because Rachel has been fighting Hades the whole time and like won't even like tries not to listen to the episodes. I'm not sure how she does it, but she avoids talking. You know, I thought, I thought, oh, you're missing out. But like I know there's a definite.
- [59:36]
Russ Frushtick
Wisdom there definitely the other thing I want to mention is a show called Pluribus which is on Apple tv.
- [59:42]
Justin McElroy
Oh, yeah.
- [59:43]
Russ Frushtick
Plus I don't know what it's called these days, but Apple. Yeah. This is the Vince Gilligan show. The creator of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, he has a new show. It stars the woman who played Kim on Better Call Saul, if you're familiar with that. I forget the actress name.
- [59:59]
Griffin McElroy
Clea Claya. I don't.
- [60:03]
Russ Frushtick
Rhea Seehorn. Yeah, Rhea Seehorn.
- [60:06]
Justin McElroy
Thank you.
- [60:06]
Russ Frushtick
She's dynamite in this. I don't know how much I really want to say, but I feel like if you're a fan of Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul, you understand Vince Gilligan's capability of making a really fucking good show.
- [60:18]
Griffin McElroy
This one's much more sci fi from the look.
- [60:20]
Russ Frushtick
Definitely more sci fi.
- [60:22]
Christopher Thomas Plant
This is him doing a Damon Lindelof style show.
- [60:25]
Griffin McElroy
That was the vibe I was getting.
- [60:26]
Russ Frushtick
What I would say is there's a high concept of the show that I'm not going to talk about right now, but the high concept, similar to severance, is revealed very, very, very early on. So I think that high concept is enough that I was like very interested in where the show would go in addition to the fact that like, dude knows how to write and produce like a really fucking amazing show.
- [60:47]
Christopher Thomas Plant
So I would recommend anybody who's curious about it watch the pilot, specifically a SAP because word's gonna spread throughout the show and people are just gonna start talking about the show for what it is. And the pilot, I'm sure, is thrilling if you already know what's happening. But it is especially great to discover what is going on alongside the pilot. It's one of the best pilots I've ever seen. It's really, man.
- [61:15]
Justin McElroy
And I really. Especially for when you're talking about, like talking about being limited on time, it's really nice to get on board with a show where you know that the creator knows how to deliver on a full series. Like how to tell a story, knows how to end it, knows how to like do it on his terms.
- [61:33]
Russ Frushtick
So it's like, yeah, they're confident they're signed up for two seasons through Apple, but he said he has idea ideas beyond that. But he's also said he knows where, presumably where it would end. So I'm sure he has the seasons at least blocked out in his head. So, yeah, you know, at least you'll get a good, actual full story out of it.
- [61:54]
Griffin McElroy
Sick.
- [61:55]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Love it.
- [61:57]
Russ Frushtick
Real quick, I want to thank the folks over at the patreon. Patreon.com thebesties where you can get new episodes of Resties and bracket battles and all sorts of good stuff. Some new members that recently joined, we have Stephen W. We have Doug, we have Michael S. And we have Cataquack. Thank you for being members of the Besties Patreon. We greatly, greatly appreciate it. As I mentioned, we have a new episode of Rusty's. We go a bit deeper into Luminesce, which is there. And we also talk about a game called Escape from Duck off, which is a genuinely great extraction shooter. I was not expecting that.
- [62:33]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Single player extraction shooter.
- [62:35]
Russ Frushtick
Yes. Single player only extraction shooter.
- [62:37]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I love that.
- [62:37]
Russ Frushtick
Featuring a duck. Cool. Who wants to talk about what we're doing next week?
- [62:44]
Justin McElroy
I can. We're going to start, you know, game of the year. It's closer than ever before and we got a couple more big releases. But there's a lot of stuff that has come and we've enjoyed to different extents and we kind of want to like, circle up, take a lay the land, talk about the things that we maybe want to spend more time with, talk about things that we have been enjoying, just kind of take stock of stuff so we can figure out how to spend the rest of this year. There's a lot of games. I mean, Russ brought up blueprints right before we started, which is a really good example of a game that some of us loved and some of us can't play. So I don't know how we're going to have those conversations.
- [63:22]
Griffin McElroy
It's going to be a really fucking intense year for goatee discussion.
- [63:26]
Justin McElroy
So to save our friendships, we just wanted to like do a little table setting.
- [63:29]
Griffin McElroy
You know, we are doing other like Kirby's still coming, Metroid's still coming this year. We're not locking shit in, but that is.
- [63:37]
Justin McElroy
I don't want to hear any numbers. You know, I'm not trying to rank. I'm just trying to figure out what still needs a little bit of that extra attention.
- [63:44]
Griffin McElroy
Yep.
- [63:45]
Russ Frushtick
Cool. We did it.
- [63:48]
Justin McElroy
I'm excited. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks so much for joining us for this week on the Besties. Be sure to join us again next week for the Besties because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games?
- [64:07]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sa.