Is Dragon Quest VII Too Easy? Is Nioh 3 Too Hard?

Summary

The Besties Podcast: "Is Dragon Quest VII Too Easy? Is Nioh 3 Too Hard?"

Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick
Date: February 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Besties crew dives into two newly released games: the reimagined Dragon Quest VII and the challenging Nioh 3. The discussion spans both accessibility and frustration in modern game design, exploring what makes a classic RPG approachable and where action games can cross the line into punishing territory. The hosts also share contemporary pop-culture recommendations and answer listener mail, all in their signature exuberant, irreverent style.

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Dragon Quest VII Reimagined: Friendly Comfort or Watered Down?

(Starting ~02:35)

What Is It?

• A "freshening up" of a classic JRPG, known for its immense length and anthology episode structure.
• This remake incorporates significant streamlining, quality-of-life improvements, and a facelift reminiscent of Gerry Anderson puppet shows ([13:23], [13:36]).

Key Discussion Points

Series Identity & Approachability

• Chris Plante: Dragon Quest’s challenge lies in its traditionalism, not genre reinvention—"Unlike Final Fantasy, it likes to stay very similar game to game." ([04:44])
• Griffin McElroy: Describes the game as individual short story arcs: “Anthological. You do a little quest in the past, help someone out...and then poof! That island reappeared in the present.” ([07:36])

Remake Changes & Pace

• Streamlined progression: Early-game busywork is drastically reduced, new players get into the action faster.
• Waypoint systems and visible map markers significantly ease the item hunt ([10:27], [10:42]).
• Dustin Bakaran: "It feels very digestible...I played five hours and I didn't feel like, 'When is it gonna start?'" ([08:25])
• Overall, friction is minimal—players are guided to required items rather than forced to exhaustively search or grind ([10:14], [10:56]).

Criticisms from Hardcore Fans

• Chris Plante: Summarizes a divide—"Some say the pleasure was talking to everyone, searching for clues...others say it's comfort food, straightforward." ([11:12])
• Griffin McElroy: Pushes back on “hostile nostalgia”—the length and inaccessibility of the original PS1 Dragon Quest VII aren’t virtues: "What was good about it is not how hostile it was." ([12:00])

Modernization Limits

• Still embraces old-school quirks (saving at churches, slow dialogue), but gains features like autosave and battle speed-ups ([14:09], [14:37]).
• Combat can be “autopilot”—players can set party tactics and fast-forward battles, reinforcing the 'comfort food' vibe ([15:39], [15:56]).
• Griffin McElroy: "This is not a super engaging gameplay experience if that's what you were looking for." ([14:48])

Difficulty, Auto-Battle, and Genre Trends

• Russ Frushtick: Asks whether ‘expediting’ core elements (like auto-battle) is a sign of RPG genre weakness ([18:35]); hosts agree that new design sensibilities improve playability and fit the episodic, lengthy design ([19:53]).
• Increased encounter speed and optional difficulty modifiers allow players to customize their experience ([17:45]).

Notable Quotes

• Griffin McElroy: "The charm of this game is through the fucking roof. The localization is great, especially in this reimagined version." ([12:59])
• Dustin Bakaran: "It feels fun, in a cheaty—not cheaty, but like you're getting good stuff constantly. It feels very low friction." ([10:56])
• Christopher Thomas Plant: "It felt to me more like an idle game meets a visual novel." ([16:56])
• Griffin McElroy: "It ain't hard...you can really take this game at whatever pace you want." ([17:43])

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Nioh 3: Skill Check or Roadblock?

(Starting ~25:10)

What Is It?

• The latest in Team Ninja's soulslike action-RPGs, now with an open world and instant dual-style (samurai/ninja) combat.
• Compared to Elden Ring’s accessibility and freedom, Nioh 3 is lauded for depth but lambasted for its brick-wall difficulty at the start.

Key Discussion Points

Open World Hopes, Tutorial Reality

• Russ Frushtick: Excited by the promise of open-world soulslike—"Elden Ring...made the games more approachable...I thought Nioh 3 would do the same." ([27:37])
• New mechanics: instant style switching, stamina-centric parries, a variety of weapons.
• Dustin Bakaran: "It's tough to contextualize because we only made it as far as I made it..." ([28:26])

The “Impossible First Boss”

• The very first real boss is "mean"--punishing players with almost instant failure: "Two and a half hits, I would say, before you're dead." ([30:16])
• Victory requires "15 minutes being perfect fighting this guy" ([31:55]), with little to no access to the tools or builds that should characterize open-world flexibility.
• Dustin Bakaran: "It is just not like—the rhythm isn’t fun...once you understand what they want you to do, it’s still unpleasant to execute." ([36:09])

Genre Expectations and Skill Checks

• Russ Frushtick: Contrasts with Souls games that teach and pace their challenge.
  • "Dark Souls 1 gives you an entire level before the first true boss, so you have options."
  • Nioh 3, instead, offers only a hard wall and resources can be wasted even before you realize it ([37:24]).
• Grinding as a suggested solution is universally panned ("That's terrible" ([34:40])).

The Frustration and Lost Potential

• Hosts bemoan the game’s design as "antiquated"—modern soulslikes increasingly avoid mandatory, punishing skill checks.
• Christopher Thomas Plant: "The skill check boss fight feels antiquated...As these games get easier and more flexible, this doesn’t make sense anymore." ([36:24])
• Even Nioh series veterans online complain about this boss being over the top ([35:09]).

Notable Quotes

• Russ Frushtick (on the boss): "Harder than anything I played in Silksong...not even close." ([25:27])
• Dustin Bakaran: "This gives you every tool and that's just more frustrating—I'll just switch between the weapons and keep getting my ass handed to me." ([39:19])
• Russ Frushtick: "For people listening that make games: It’s okay, you don't need to throw people in the deep end early on. Make them feel pretty good about your game before you make them die a bunch of times…" ([39:29])
• Griffin McElroy: "Neo has always been this franchise where I'm like, I like fucking everything about this...I just have never really gotten stuck in one." ([40:07])

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Listener Mail: Rock Climbing and Jargon

(Starting ~40:45)

• Listeners clarify that the "asshole climber" stereotype isn't actually reflective of real-world rock climbing—most climbers are supportive and kind ([41:32]).
• Fun with climbing terminology (“whipper” is a safe fall, “Elvis leg” is when your leg shakes uncontrollably while climbing) ([43:08], [43:25]).

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Pop Culture: What’s On Their Radar?

(Starting ~44:01)

Fallout Season 2 (TV)

• Russ: Praises how Fallout S2 melds game canon with narrative, making references both accurate and organic ([44:01]).
• Dustin: Finds the sheer number of plot threads overwhelming at first, but Russ suggests it finds its footing ([45:22], [45:48]).

Star Trek: Starfleet Academy

• New, youth-oriented Star Trek show with Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti.
• Dustin: "Wildly uneven...but interesting that this show exists at all." ([46:53])

Make Some Noise (Dropout)

• Comedy improv game show—Griffin strongly recommends the Paul F. Tompkins episode ([51:16]).

Nirvana the Band the Show

• Surreal, video game-loving Canadian comedy; a film is debuting soon ([52:11]).
• Christopher: "If you’re listening to this show, you like video games. Nirvana the Band...might be some of the most loving media about video games that you’ll find." ([53:12])

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Notable/Memorable Moments

• Joking About Orbs versus Crystals: "In Dragon Quest we're almost always talking about an orb. And the orb is prismatic. Different colors..." – Griffin ([00:13])
• Running Joke About "Pilchard Day": The hosts riff on low-stakes RPG opening scenarios ([05:46])
• Meta Debates: Should objective game features trump "cozy" nostalgia? What really matters in modern RPGs—the grind, or the story? (throughout Dragon Quest VII segment)
• Friendly Banter on Future Episodes: Russ cracks, "I've never played a game more before recording an episode of the Besties," teasing the next episode’s topic ([57:22]).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:35 — Dragon Quest VII: Remake changes and first impressions
• 07:36 — Story structure ("anthological" design)
• 10:27 — Quality-of-life features and accessibility
• 12:00 — Hardcore vs. mainstream fan divide
• 14:09 — Retained old-school quirks vs. gameplay modernization
• 18:35 — Genre talk: Should JRPGs be “expedited”?
• 25:10 — Nioh 3: Open world premise and first boss horror
• 31:55 — The guide-YouTube trap and un-fun challenge
• 36:24 — The "skill check" boss debate and genre evolution
• 40:45 — Listener mail: Real-life rock climber corrections, climbing jargon
• 44:01 — "Fallout" Season 2 praise and criticism
• 46:53 — Star Trek: Starfleet Academy discussion
• 51:16 — "Make Some Noise" (Dropout) recommended
• 52:11 — "Nirvana the Band the Show" recommended

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Tone and Language

• The panel is casual, enthusiastic, and playfully adversarial—as always, lots of tangents and deep-cut jokes.
• Candid about both nostalgia and modern design limitations: "It ain't hard...You can really take this game at whatever pace you want." ([17:43])
• Not afraid to criticize beloved franchises: "This is just frustration." ([38:28])
• Embracing the podcast’s community: "Just by listening, you are a member [of the club]..." ([02:35])

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In Summary

This episode explores what makes classic games endure, how remakes navigate nostalgia vs. accessibility, and why difficulty curves matter—especially for games that want to grow their audience. Dragon Quest VII is praised for streamlining grindy tradition into playful, accessible comfort food, while Nioh 3 is critiqued for its lofty early barriers despite an otherwise promising expansion to open-world design. The hosts round out the show with pop culture picks, reader feedback, and the usual blend of game-club camaraderie.

Besties verdict: If you love RPGs and want something to pick at for months, Dragon Quest VII Reimagined is the best version to date—just don’t expect a modern gameplay revolution. And if you’re tempted by Nioh 3, beware: the first boss might be your last!

Transcript

[Russ Rushlich]

This is the one with the crystals and the dragons. No, it's not.

[Griffin McElroy]

So sometimes there's orbs. Okay, 11's got 11 points.

[Russ Rushlich]

Do any of the orbs have points? Cause if they have points, that's basically a crystal.

[Griffin McElroy]

No, they're usually pretty smooth. Final Fantasy the crystals are quite jagged. Yeah, yeah, I will grant you that. Sometimes they're like materia, I guess is a perfect, beautiful little sphere that you just want to pop right in your mouth. And sometimes they're like neat little geometric shapes. Like an elongated eight sided die or something. Something like that. But in Dragon Quest we're almost always talking about an orb. And the orb is prismatic. Different colors of the rainbow. And you do need to get all of them, usually to build a bridge to heaven so you can get the sword from God. So that's my mnemonic device.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I like Dragon Warrior. That game's sick. Dragon Quest sucks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's Dragon Warrior rules.

[Dustin Bakaran]

That's really old school. So I only like Dragon Warrior and I actually, the kids that like Dragon Quest grown up, I thought they were kind of idiots and wimps.

[Griffin McElroy]

Juice, the blonde flower seller from Final Fantasy vii. What's her name?

[Dustin Bakaran]

Aerith.

[Russ Rushlich]

Oh, not what I. Interesting.

[Griffin McElroy]

Not what I expected.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I think there was a promotion to get a copy of Dragon Warrior for free when I was a kid. That's the only reason I played.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Of course it was. The Nintendo Power gave it away. And second thing.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Knowing that there's gonna have to be like a Wikipedia page explaining this cold open. 90% of the people.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, dude. Nine layers deep. You gotta know. You gotta know your stuff, gang.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This is a Super bowl dip of a cold open for you right here.

[Dustin Bakaran]

We'll talk about this contextually.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, no, we'll. We're gonna. And if you're intrigued and confused by this cold open, stick around. We'll explain every joke we made along the way. So.

[Dustin Bakaran]

You're not supposed to be listening to this. This isn't part of the show, Rachel. God damn it.

[Russ Rushlich]

Again.

[Griffin McElroy]

We keep telling you.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Please don't. We keep telling you. This is not part of it. My name is Dustin Bakaran. I know the best game of the week.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the week.

[Russ Rushlich]

My name is Russ Rushlich. I know the best game of the week.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Welcome to the Besties. It's a video game club. And just by listening, you are a member this week. We're talking about a freshening up of a classic beloved tale. Dragon Quest vii. Reimagined. Is that what we're going with?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, Crushed it.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Reimagined? What's that?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Chris Blant, Dragon Quest 7. Reimagined is the latest remake of the game. We got one about 10 years ago for the Nintendo DS and the original came out in America, which is a twist because not every Dragon Quest game used to. Dragon Quest, for people who aren't aware, is a fantasy role playing game. Imagine Final Fantasy VII. Well, actually don't imagine Final Fantasy 7. Not at all. Don't imagine anything like Final Fantasy.

[Griffin McElroy]

Don't imagine something else, please.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The opposite of that. Imagine just a really traditional fantasy role playing game, but this time you're on a boat.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Madden 2045.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's exactly what it is.

[Dustin Bakaran]

That's the exact opposite.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

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[Dustin Bakaran]

Dragon Quest VII Fragments of the forgotten past is the.

[Griffin McElroy]

That was the 3DS version. Yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Madden comparison I don't think is entirely wrong here from Justin in the world of role playing games because Dragon Quest, unlike Final Fantasy, it likes to stay very similar game to game to game beyond just the slimes, massive swings. Every game like Final Fantasy where you don't fully know what it's going to be. If you've played one Dragon Quest, you have an idea of what the Dragon Quest canon will be.

[Griffin McElroy]

Play Final Fantasy 1 and then go play Final Fantasy 16.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sure.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is that the most recent one? Play anywhere in between there. 7, 10, 12, like play any of the other and it's like that's a different genre.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Right?

[Griffin McElroy]

Like Final Fantasy VII even is sort of a steamy, steampunk, apocalyptic kind of fantasy. This is just Dragon Quest and seven is about as straight over the plate as this series really, really gets.

[Russ Rushlich]

Is there a special boy and it's a special day in this game?

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, so there's a lot of twists on there.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It's Pilchard Day. It's Pilchard Day.

[Russ Rushlich]

It's Pilchard Day.

[Griffin McElroy]

A special fish day at Pilchard Day. It's a special Pilchard fish day.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It's Pilchard Day at Pilchard Bay. And it's a special Pilchard Day. You gotta wake up early to help your Pilchard PA bring his special pilchard sandwiches for your ma to your PA before he sets sail to collect all the delicious pilchards.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think the closest thing you get to like a destiny connection is that you're friends with a prince who is the biggest dipshit in gaming history.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And there's Gjallhorn is Gjallarhorn is also.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, you can find Gjallarhorn.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Huge destiny connection.

[Griffin McElroy]

Can I try and set up kinda what Dragon War 7 was? And so when it came to the Stacey was Dragon Warrior 7. And this is a JRPG franchise. And I mean most of the games are pretty beefy and like you said, it is very, very, very traditional JRP stuff because in a lot of ways Dragon Quest 1 invented those traditions and so it has stuck pretty close to that. You're gonna see slimes, you're gonna see turn based combat and leveling up, you're gonna. If you stick with it, I would say to about the 10 to 12 hour mark, you will finally unlock classes. There is a class system in the game that is actually pretty sick. It's pretty great. And it's had some changes for this remake where you can have two classes equipped at the same time, which sort of opens things up and makes progression much, much, much faster. But aside from that, like very traditional turn based combat, not many surprises there. I think the surprising thing about this game is its structure, which is very anthological. I don't know if that's a word.

[Russ Rushlich]

Sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Anthology esque.

[Griffin McElroy]

You are friends with this prince.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Wow. What is the word?

[Griffin McElroy]

Anthological. Feels right to me.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Right? Oh, I like it.

[Griffin McElroy]

You're a little boy from a poor fishing village who's friends with a dipshit prince. And the mayor's daughter finds out you two are on adventures goes with you and you start to put together these tablets that let you travel into the past to these islands that have been lost in time. You go back and you'll do a little quest, you'll do a little quest in the past, you'll help somebody out, you'll do about 40 to 50 turn based battles and you'll level up and you'll find some stuff and then you'll come back to the present and poof, that island has reappeared and now there's stuff to do there too. And then you go right back to the shrine of mysteries, my friend, and it's on to the next tablet and the next island of the past. You're gonna save somebody there and fix it and you come back to the present, poof, there's a new island. It is just a sort of bunch of short stories that you are really cranking through. You really got couple hours each.

[Dustin Bakaran]

So I'm not big into these kinds of games, but because of our B segment game, I decided to play this game some and I you really. A lot of, a lot of games that have this sort of like length. It feels like that because the first three hours are you listening to two old princes talk about how the Dragon king is almost dead, but the unicorn lands? You know what I mean? It's like fucking bring your dad a sandwich. And then your dad's like, there's some tablets, will you go look at them? Or whatever. And like the episode, it is like a very logical sort of like small, low stakes thing, but it's easy to follow. You're not being asked to read a thousand lines of dialogue, but it's just like. And it feels very digestible. Like I played about five hours of this and I didn't feel like, well, when is it gonna start? Or whatever. I had a beautifully pleasant, cohesive experience. You know, it didn't feel like I had just gotten a glimpse of the shape of the maybe thing.

[Griffin McElroy]

That is a new feature for this reimagined version of the game, Dragon Warrior 7. Famously, you would not engage in a turn based battle for the first three.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Hours of the game.

[Griffin McElroy]

Maybe as you are, because the things that you do, bringing a sandwich to your dad and then going to meet your dipshit prince friend to put together this tablet to travel into the past, that's about like, that is hours and hours of the PlayStation original that you get through very, very quickly. They have streamlined so much of the stuff more than even the 3DS version did, which already streamlined some of this stuff. This is by comparison. People who play this and think it's slow might disagree, but like it moves at a fucking trot.

[Russ Rushlich]

So is that them cutting stuff from the original game or is that them increasing the game speed but Partially it's.

[Griffin McElroy]

Stuff like instead of going here and talking to your uncle and then he has you go off and do these nine things, he just gives you one of the things that you should have gone hunting for in the past. It's stuff like that where it's just like getting rid of backtracking and like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They'Ve added a lot of quality of life stuff too. There's a lot more waypoint marking of things where if you need to find things like these tablets that send you into the past, you have to collect a series of them and now you can just find them on the map.

[Griffin McElroy]

You see them on the map?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. Versus like, oh, I am going to have to go into every room in every house and break every single jar because there might be be a tablet in them or I have to talk to every single person. Cause there might be a person to chat with.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It feels fun in a cheaty. Not cheaty, but like you're sort of like getting good stuff constantly. Like you definitely. It feels like you're just kind of like people are just tossing the stuff you need at you. It feels very low friction is what I would say. They want you to keep going.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, that's what I've been surprised by kind of the reaction to this because a lot of hardcore Dragon Quest fans who played through the original and played through the remake, I'm seeing gripes of, oh, you've honed it into nothingness. That the game now plays itself. That the pleasure of these RPGs was that you did talk to everybody and like, finding out where to go was the fun. What's strange to me and Griffin, I'm curious where your head is at on this.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I also hear from Dragon Quest fans that the appeal is that it is relatively straightforward, that you don't have to think when playing these games that it is comfort food. I think I've read a million pieces.

[Griffin McElroy]

Of about how a million people will tell you comfort food. Yeah, it's comfort food.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Right. So it's like, I don't know which one people want it to be. And I'm curious for you, like, did it lose something by trimming this down?

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't think so. I have played through every mainline Dragon Quest game except for the online 10 1, because, yeah, 10. I haven't figured out how to do that yet. Pretty curious about it. And seven, like, it earns its reputation for being pretty. Pretty hostile, I think, to your time. And just a lot, a lot, a lot of unnecessary backtracking and Hunting down these fragments. If you miss one, then, like, you're going to spend a long fucking time trying to figure out where you didn't pick up this one of many, many dozens of plot, like, important kind of items that you're supposed to be like. I feel like there is. I don't want to disqualify anyone's comments or say that they're like, bullshit or whatever, but, like, I think that looking back at Dragon Warrior 7 on the PlayStation 1 when it came to the States and saying, like, what was good about it is how. How hostile it was or how unapproachable it was or anything like that. Like, I don't know. For me, that game has a lot of other cool shit. Like, the class system is really neat. And once you get into that, like, all of a sudden there's a quite a bit more depth to the combat system. The characters, the charm of this game is like, through the fucking roof. The localization is great, especially in this reimagined version. It looks so good. What was that old show that, like, Team America, World Police made fun of?

[Russ Rushlich]

Oh, Thunderbirds.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Thunderbirds. Go.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, man, it looks awesome. It looks so cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It looks like dioramas with, like, marionette puppet characters or even, I think, Jerry. Old guides, like a video game guide come to life.

[Griffin McElroy]

It really does. Yeah. That's a really good way of putting it. So, like, Gerry Anderson. Gerry Anderson. There's a ton of stuff about this game that I think is really good. And for me, Dragon Quest XI is still the, like, I think, cleanest way to get into the. It was the first game I played. I still think it's, like, the most approachable because while this does trim off a tremendous amount of, like, unnecessary stuff that kind of got in the way of the original version and the 3DS version, there's some stuff about it that is still pretty antiquated. And they haven't touched that stuff.

[Russ Rushlich]

Like what?

[Griffin McElroy]

To me, it feels. I mean, God, I don't know. The fact that in order to save, you have to go to a church and talk to a guy and he gives you a long, unskippable, sort of, like, dialogue thing.

[Russ Rushlich]

I mean, that's all true to life. So if you're.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, no, I mean, that's true.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I guess that is. Yeah. That's not just the church guy, actually, kind of. That's fine. It's a statue that wants to talk to you. That's a bit much for me. You know what I'm here for? Refill the life Refill. The manna. I don't have multiple saves. This isn't a branching story. I'm not going to backtrack here.

[Griffin McElroy]

The game does autosave, so like a lot of that stuff is. I don't know, I still felt like I needed to save every time I could, but that was boosting muscle memory from the like 120 hours I spent playing this shit on my.

[Dustin Bakaran]

This is not a. I'm not going to complain about this because like I said, I think this is all part of the charm. But I think to be really clear about it, if you are used to more modern, there is not much in the way of modernization that has happened with like the gameplay systems. Like I think a lot of turn based stuff have found ways of making combat more active, you know, even in. In giving you opportunities to like reduce some damage with a counter button or something like that. Something to like bring you into battles a little bit more. This is very much like it. It feels designed to put on autopilot. It's very easy to start auto battling. You can actually set up like tactics for what kind of auto fighting you want your characters to do. Like it feels very much intended for that to be. This is not like a super engaging like gameplay experience if that's something you were looking for.

[Russ Rushlich]

I will say this on the auto battling side, that stuff actually makes me incredibly encouraged.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh yeah, I liked it.

[Dustin Bakaran]

No, sorry, thumbs up from me. Huge plus. But it is not an update, it is an acknowledgement that some of this is like not super engaging.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, the depth of it comes from the preparation for those battles.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like the classic, the class system has like there's basic classes you learn and once you learn a couple of those, you can move on to an advanced class and then those give you different spells and affect your stats in a bunch of different ways. And being able to mix and match those opens up a lot of doors. But then yeah, once you're in the fight, it is a Dragon Quest thing to just turn on auto battle and press the fast forward button and roll the dice and see where they land and hope that you've prepared enough.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It is funny as you progress through, if you're just auto battling the whole time, it's just this thing of like, wow, this seems super easy. I'm just kind of churning through these. And then you'll watch this battle start to break bad in a way that like, I don't really know how to help you guys. I haven't been playing the whole time. Wow, you guys are really getting Your asses kicked, huh? Ah, dagnabbit. This fell apart fast. I wish I'd done. I should have done something. I should have stopped this. I was watching it unfold.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think it's different than the most recent. Like a dragon, which was turn based or metaphor refantasio in that it felt to me more like an idle game meets a visual novel.

[Dustin Bakaran]

In that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. All of the strategizing that Griffin talks about is there. I didn't need to use any of that. I put the battle speed on ultra fast. I put auto battle on. You get to a point where you are so above enemies that you can just slice them before you even get into a battle. And you don't even have to love that.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh God, I love that shit.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Right? And it's just a matter of watching my numbers go up while I get these like. Great. Somewhere between like Outer Limits and O. Henry stories. Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

No random encounters either. No random encounters. You see the people, you see the enemies on the map.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

So you can choose when to.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And you can spin around them. Oh yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

It ain't hard. There's some difficulty settings that I really appreciate. Like. And if you don't want to make battles easier for yourself or you don't want to affect like the stats of it, you can increase how much experience or gold or occupation vocation points. I forget what they're called. You can boost those so you just don't have to grind as much. And then you'll be over leveled and you'll get into a dungeon and be like, I'm not going to fight everybody in here. I don't actually. I don't actually need to. You can really take this game at whatever pace you want. And I think it is. I think it's the best version of this game. I love this series and I love the original game. But like this stuff that. That made it slow was bad. I don't have much affection for. For that. I don't know that stuff. Maybe I would if I had played it, you know, on the original PS1 and had that experience in its sort of intended format.

[Russ Rushlich]

Can I ask a question as someone who did not intentionally did not play this game because we've historically. I have really jived with very few JRPGs in the past. Don't you think it's a bit of a sign that something is off with the genre when expediting elements of the genre makes the game better?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I see what you mean. And as somebody who has turned around on this genre a ton over the last Few years is. Yes, a long time ago it needed more honing and it has since been honed. And that's why when I play Metaphori Fantasio or I play like a dragon, I do not skip the combat.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. I mean for me those games in particular I think are representative of like a more modern approach. So I do agree with that. But like, I mean there's, I mean.

[Griffin McElroy]

It is as old fashioned. Dragon Quest 11 is still pretty traditional. Like there's no extra turn system for metaphor refantasio. There's no parry system from Expedition 33. Right. But that is the stuff that if they would add it to this game.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It would no longer be.

[Griffin McElroy]

It would no longer be Dragon Quest.

[Russ Rushlich]

No, I understand that. I guess the question I would have is, would Dragon Quest XI be improved if all of these features that we just talked about were also ported to like other Dragon Quest games?

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't think so. And I'll tell you why. It's because these are big games and they are big stories. Dragon Quest VII especially. And I don't think the number of turn based battles you would get into would be. Would make it a even remotely palatable experience if you had to put a little bit more time and energy into each and every fight. Right. Like I don't. This game has so many scenes and so many settings and so many stories and chapters that it is moving through. If you did not play it fast forwarding the combat on auto. And I'm not saying that obviously everyone does it that way. I'm speaking personally. The idea of doing all those battles and having to actually spend some brain juice on them, it just doesn't sound great.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

You gotta also think about it in the context of gameplay just being one of the other things that is on offer. Especially with a package like this. Right. You're talking about, you're paying for the fidelity of having this nostalgic experience recreated for you in a way that makes it super engaging. But like if you had a story in a game that you weren't particularly like needing to, you wanted to get the sense of, but you didn't necessarily need to like read every single side story and every single line, no one would think twice about kind of like tapping through that dialogue and getting a sense of it.

[Russ Rushlich]

Right.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And that's about what I'm doing with the story here. Right. It's like, that's cute. I'm kind of like basically got a sense of it. But it's beautiful to look at and engage with and so relaxing and I feel like if it feels forced me to slow down and do like be very specific about the mechanics, it would be almost a betrayal of that. Right. Because what I'm getting out of it is that it's so sort of like light and airy. I'm able to kind of like get a sense of this, what this experience is without like sinking a hundred hours of my full focus into it.

[Griffin McElroy]

I get that.

[Russ Rushlich]

A final question for me. If you could wave a magic wand and apply all of these speed up, auto battle, et cetera features to older JRPGs, Final Fantasy across the board, do you think that's a net positive or are there specific ones where you think it would actually detract?

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, I think overall it would be a net positive. I also feel like in my gut, a game like Final Fantasy 6 is not as. Is not quite as long as a Dragon Quest is like you are doing sort of sum total fewer kind of random encounters overall. But Final Fantasy 6, to use that as an example, when you use the blitz combo mean, and you have to punch in the actual command, like you're playing Street Fighter or you're controlling Cyan and you have to wait for the meter to charge. Like Dragon Quest doesn't do any of that shit, man. The newest like gameplay thing that they have is each class has like a special ability that charges up that are actually kind of cool. Like obviously that is well trod territory, but like it's kind of. The special abilities are pretty neat and pretty good reasons for you to consider using classes that otherwise are not so great. But again, that goes back to the thing of like it's all the prep, it's all the getting stronger, it's all the finding the stuff and exploring. So that when you go and you look at these very fast, very low input battles and they start moving at a nice clip, you're like, hell yeah, I'm doing the other part of the game. Super.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. Yeah, that feels good. I like that.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. I think this rules. I think this game is great and I think it is the best version of a game that is obviously very, very nostalgic, but also like, I don't know, just a really very solid entry. Not my favorite in the Dragon Quest series, but like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But because of its story, you can pick at it over the course of like years.

[Griffin McElroy]

Absolutely you can.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Like a bonsai tree.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Like a bonsai tree.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Let's take a break and then when we come back, let's talk about a much less relaxing and accommodating experience.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Neo3 hey gamers, if you have been waiting for the perfect time to give your setup the ultimate boost, I've got some great news for you. Alienware is having their annual Tech Days event. And that means you can score some pretty amazing deals right now. Save big on new Alienware PCs like Aurora laptops and the Area 51, their most powerful desktop. They both take performance to the next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. There's also some pretty serious deals on Alienware displays, accessories and more. Check it all [e-mail] deals. The whole reason for this annual Techdays event is to celebrate you. So I take a good look at these prices and exclusive benefits before it ends. It's easy to save. Just visit alienware.comdeals and snag yourself some great gear at very upgrade friendly prices.

[Russ Rushlich]

Now we all know that I'm great at video games. We'll start that segment there. I'm really. I play all the hardest ones and.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I do play the hardest ones. And lots of his time, like lots of his time that he could have.

[Russ Rushlich]

Spent on anything, anything else carving I could have been doing. But instead I play hard games.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

I will say without hyperbole that Neo3's very first boss that you fight is harder than anything that I played in Silksong. Anything? Not even close.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Now, do you mean that in a fun way?

[Russ Rushlich]

I do not.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Justice. But Russ, I'm confused because you, as you say to me all the time, even when I beg you to stop, you love it rough. So what was it about this game?

[Russ Rushlich]

Okay, let me take.

[Dustin Bakaran]

If I could just echo Russell. Ditto 100%. But I suck. So like I get frustrated. I got other stuff.

[Russ Rushlich]

Someone who's legit before.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I got other things in my life.

[Russ Rushlich]

Let me take a step back real quick. So the Nioh franchise has existed for a while now. It comes from the team Ninja team. Koei Tecmo makes these games. They are souls like games. But Nioh 1 and Neo 2 notably are relatively linear. Linear in the way that like Demon's Souls was linear. Like it'll have environment like levels, former levels, rather than like a big open world.

[Griffin McElroy]

That they feel a bit more action.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Oriented, I would say, and a little bit more.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Less. Less about the exploring and shortcuts and all that.

[Russ Rushlich]

It feels like a platinum game in terms of the combat. Much faster than anything you would see in like a Dark Souls or anything like that. Very.

[Griffin McElroy]

I would argue it feels like a team ninja game.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah, team ninja, but good. That's a.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's Just.

[Russ Rushlich]

That's just me, because they made it. But also, if you've played any of their games, very similar. This is notably the first time that they are bringing the open world format to the Nioh franchise. The developers actually messed with this before they made Path of the Ronin. Was that the name of that game? Oh, yeah. Way of the Ronin. That was the one. It just came out like three years ago. Two or three years ago. Where you could, like, glide around the world.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They've made so many games in the past few years. Yes. Fallen Dynasty. Yes.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah, they've made a lot of games, but this one is the first time.

[Griffin McElroy]

They'Re bringing over Rise of the Ronin.

[Russ Rushlich]

Rise of the Ronin.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Thank you.

[Griffin McElroy]

I couldn't find the verb pretty. I searched a lot of different verbs of the Ronin.

[Russ Rushlich]

This is the first time that they've brought open world to the mix, which actually got me really excited because I thought that Elden Ring, by introducing an open world format in ways that were much more dramatic than Dark Souls 1 and 2 and 3 for that matter, made the games more approachable because you can really figure out the best way to approach something. Oh, I'm struggling on this boss. I'm going to go to a different boss or find new gear or whatever. So I was excited about Neo3, maybe introducing that to a franchise that I hadn't really clicked with yet. That's all the setup. Here's the kicker. So they put you through a tutorial and they teach you the mechanics, and the mechanics, they do some interesting things. Justin, I don't know if there was anything in particular that you thought was interesting. I thought the switching thing, where you're switching between samurai and ninja, pretty cool.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yeah. It's tough to contextualize it because we only made it as far as I made it, but the. It very quickly introduces you to two combat styles, one of which is Samurai, where there's a sort of, like, moment that you can restore your stamina after a series of attacks. So you're sort of like, if you combo a sort of like breath in, you can, like, keep your stamina a little bit better. And then the. The ninja, you can add on to the end of a combo, like a teleport away. So, like, if you press attack several times, you can kind of shadow step rather than, like, actually dodge. And it's like part of the flow of the combat. So they both feel pretty different pretty quickly. Samurai's like, more, you know, combat full on. And then the ninja's a bit more.

[Russ Rushlich]

Stealthy, but you are specifically Switching between them instantly, there's just like. You pull a trigger and boom, you're the other character. In fact, it's actually tied into the, like, parry system of the game, where the way you parry is by switching as you're being attacked by a heavy attack. You like, that activates the parry mechanic.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, that's interesting.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Like, super parry.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

For the super unblockable thing, you have to switch forms, and it's like. Yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

So neat idea. Okay, so we go. Justin and I again had the same experience. We go through the tutorial at the end. Presumably at the end of the.

[Dustin Bakaran]

You can try, but there's, like, 10 weapons. So there's like. You can try. It doesn't, like, give you something. It's like, get started with this. It's like, there's a. I mean, I really. I. Between, like, the bonus stuff that I had, like, 20 weapons.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

By the time I got to the first boss, like, I added every weapon. Not a problem.

[Russ Rushlich]

The first boss is a guy with a big stick. And there's a point at the end of it, and, man, is he mean.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Shoo. This guy is mean.

[Russ Rushlich]

You get a boy.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Does he hate you.

[Russ Rushlich]

Two and a half hits, I would say, before you're dead. And you have.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Not an exaggeration, three hit.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. But basically three hits. Maybe two and a half. Depends on where you're at. And you have three heals, and the heels will, like, mostly heal you fully, but that's it.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And two blocks will clear your stamina. So, like, you could block twice, and then you had. And then you are completely vulnerable. Every combo, like, most of his combos are like, four hits. So, like, you can't block.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And there is a dodge, so you can dodge away, but it's really not recommended. It's not recommended. And also. But here's the thing that really sucks. It's not that hard to not get hit by the guy. You can keep your distance from the guy really easy.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. The way damage works in this game is you have to basically whittle down the guy's stamina. They have a name for it in the game, but it's basically stamina key until the key is low enough, and then you can deal damage to him, but what you're dealing to him is, like, basically what looks like chip damage. Like, here's 2% of his health off. Congratulations. Do it again. 50 more times. Now, there are ways to combo where you're. Where you're interrupting one of his heavy attacks, but you better not fuck up that timing. Because if you fuck up that timing, you're basically dead. And there's very, very little room for error. And it's. When you're succeeding, it's just a very slow plotting process.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It's triage. It feels like not. Not triage.

[Griffin McElroy]

It feels like I'm watching a video of this fight.

[Russ Rushlich]

There's a YouTube video that. Because I looked up guides, you know how I feel about guides. We all do. I looked up guides for this fight specifically. That was like, easy way to beat this guy. And the easy way to beat this guy is spend 15 minutes being perfect fighting this guy is basically what it boils down to.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It is if you think about the early stages of a game, and I think you have to, right, Games are. Every game is educational, right? Because that's what's fun about games, is the learning that your brain does when you figure out a mechanic. Your brain likes that, right? So the game is always teaching you. And what this game is teaching you in the early moments is here's how I want you to approach bosses. I want you to approach them by figuring out the exact thing that I want you to do and then be very deliberate about that and then execute it perfectly and it won't be pleasant. And that's what it's teaching you about Neo3, right? So even if you engage it, like, take it at face value, it is like. So it is telling you that it is going to be unpleasant now.

[Russ Rushlich]

But here's the issue and here's why I think it's interesting that they've made this choice about the first boss. Because once you get through the tutorial and the game opens up, what I've heard from people that have played much further than us is the game gives you tools to make boss fights way more of an intimate, personalized experience. Because you're using this skill to parry or this weapon to whatever you're earning. Skills that, like, allow you to focus how you're playing, which I find incredibly compelling. About fromsoft games, for example, is being able to customize that experience. Because this is so early, your only option for a customization. There's a couple options. You could summon a guy. There is a guy, an NPC you can summon. You have a limited number of resources to summon that guy. And when you run out, there's no more of those. Also, the guy does no damage and barely attends his his attention while you're doing the fight. The other option that I've heard online.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Is you still get combo. Like you could bring someone else, right? Which I did. I just used the resource, not really knowing, like I got, I got killed by the guy so badly that I assumed I was supposed to bring in somebody and I brought in somebody and I used up the, the resource and it didn't help. And if he turns his attention on you, which he instantly does, still three hits and you're dead. Yeah, he does it.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. The other option that I've heard online through digging through like Neo Reddit's is you should turn around and just start slaughtering like little soldier guys that are kind of in the area and just grind out souls for two hours until you're a high enough level that the fight is decent. And that fucking sucks, guys. Like, that's terrible.

[Dustin Bakaran]

And I, by the way, I would have no idea about how I would level up in a way that would be meaningful. Right. So I would definitely need to go like, look up a guide for the best way to level up, to exploit. Because that's what they want. And what it's hard is it just feels like trying to make a segment of a game wait like it is not intended for people. Here's what I can't say authoritatively. It is not for people that didn't play Neo1 and Nioh2. I hope it's for people that did. Even people, I hope they're getting it.

[Russ Rushlich]

Even people that played Neo 1 and Neo 2. I was looking on the Reddit, the Neo Reddit, if ever there was a place where people would go and people were saying, holy shit. This is dramatically harder than anything I've experienced.

[Griffin McElroy]

What I'm struggling with, looking at this fight, one of my favorite games ever is Sekiro. And the way you describe the combat system, the boss fight system, like it sounded similar, right? In Sekiro, you have a certain number of death blows that you have to get off on an enemy. And to do that, you have to break their stamina either through well timed guards or attacks or any number of basic kind of sword fight, dueling activities. In here, it really seems a lot less. I mean, Sekiro, you really had to wail on some people to break their stamina. Bushido Blade, it wasn't. But when you break someone in, in this fight that I'm watching, you get to deal a little bit of dam more damage than you normally do and then it's back to the grind. So it feels like the tempo is.

[Dustin Bakaran]

The tempo is very dramatically different. It is just not like the, the rhythm isn't fun, right? Like, it's not even like a difficulty thing. Because once you understand what they want you to do, it's still unpleasant to execute.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think this is a big question I have about the Souls like genre right now, which is this. The skill check boss fight feels antiquated in some ways as these games get easier and they give you more and more options, which apparently this game does a lot. As you mentioned, I read the Kotaku review and from what I understand, it's these four big open worlds and you get a ton of new abilities and power ups and advanced weapons that make the game easier and easier and easier. But just like this developer's previous game, wo long Fallen Dynasty, it has this skill check that's like, well, we want to make sure that you're good enough to play the rest of the game, that you're going to be. That you won't be overwhelmed. Ironically, we are testing the maximum of what you're going to face before you even get to that though. And that just seems. I get why it was there with the original Souls games. I don't fully understand this.

[Russ Rushlich]

Here's the thing, it's not there in the original Souls games because if you look At Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 1 begins, you know, you go through the tutorial, asylum demon, you die, whatever you die to the asylum demon, that's fine. And then eventually you go to undead Burg and the first like quote unquote true boss that you're fighting is what's his name on the bridge, Whoever that guy is, the big guy on the.

[Griffin McElroy]

Bridge, I'll never ever remember whatever his name is.

[Russ Rushlich]

But you have an entire level before that where you're like doing things and finding things and finding gear to determine what you're going to be able to do. And there's different options. So without that here, because you're locked into the tutorial and it just doesn't have any options.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Bloodborne's first boss is a good example of this where like Bloodborne's first boss, you have to beat them before you can start leveling. So it's this thing of like, it's this mental thing. But what Bloodborne is teaching you there is that it is scary, right? Bloodborne is high stakes because this doesn't even have that drama. You instantly get your souls back or whatever when you walk back into it. It's not like there's no tension, it's just frustration.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

All I'm gonna say is this is this for me personally, this is not me saying nioh3 is a bad game. What it is me saying Is Nioh. Three developers made a very, very bad decision for the beginning of their expansive giant open world game that otherwise, according to reviews, seems to be pretty fucking good. So I hope for their sake and other people's sake, people that buy it, that they think about patching it. Because that's a lot of fucking effort you guys spent making this awesome game to have it gated behind what is a pretty miserable experience. And for people listening that make games as well, like, it's okay. You don't need to throw people in the deep end early on. In fact, I'd recommend the opposite. Make them feel pretty good about your game before you make them die a bunch of times and maybe they'll keep playing.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I don't even mind if you want me to grind. I don't even mind the skill test. But if you're gonna do the skill test, make it one weapon and one boss. And make sure that I understand your counter system right. Like, make sure you're teaching me something with it. This gives you every tool like it, and that's just more fresh. I'll just switch between the weapons and keep getting my ass handed to me. And that's the lesson that the game wants me to take away from it. It's not like, feel free to experiment. What the lesson is, get on YouTube and fucking find the one tutorial that'll teach you how to beat some. And even then it's too annoying to actually do. You'll just quit.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

Anyway, that's Neo3 for people that do get into it. If a game gets patched and that becomes easier, let us know. I'd be happy to try it again.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I don't know that I will.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I'll be happy to try it again.

[Griffin McElroy]

Neo has always been this franchise where I'm like, I like fucking everything about this. All these different ingredients, they've mixed it and I just have never. I just have never really gotten stuck in one.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah, I like what I liked Rise of the Ronin. And that game actually has difficulty settings. So if you're interested in this kind of game from this developer play that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They make good games. Wo Long good. Rise of the Ronin, good. Fatal Frame two coming out this year. Good. Looks like they also made another Dead or Alive extreme dating game. Haven't had a chance to play that one yet. Only released in Asia. But you know, I'm going to figure out how to download it. I'm just curious.

[Russ Rushlich]

Cool. Okay. Well, we have some reader mail very quickly from some folks specifically talking about Cairn, which is exciting. We talked about Cairn last week. That was the mountain climbing game. This first letter comes from Arian. Arian says rock climber here. While I've spent far more time in the gym than on Crags, I've met many folks who do both. And I must say that being an asshole is not an accepted part of the sport. Yes, there are people who think that being a highly skilled climber excuses any terrible behavior, but there are far more amazing climbers who are the nicest folks in the world. At the gym, advanced climbers will be the first to cheer on a new climber when they achieve their first send because we all know how it feels to hit the first wall. Love the show and this episode was super fun, but I wanted to share that rock climbers are more often than not a kind and welcoming bunch.

[Griffin McElroy]

Did we say that rock climbers were shaped as well?

[Russ Rushlich]

I think the person, the character, the.

[Griffin McElroy]

Standoffish nature of the. Of the main character of the game and it's like, well, yeah, because you're out there on the mountains, you're not. Yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

We also might have alluded to the fact that rock climbers might not care about their loved ones because they think their.

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, that's pastime is more important subjectively. No. Yeah, I mean, I think it's. I know a couple rock climber people and they're always posting pics of them with lots of other rock climber people. And so it's like obviously they seem. They seem a friendly bunch. I hope I didn't speaking.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I thought this might be a reference to. I came upon in the game bear proof, like snack deposits with some items in them. And I didn't know if I should leave some of the items behind. I've never experienced that in a video game before. But I was seeing like, I guess a normal hiker wouldn't clean this whole box of bear proof stuff out. Like a normal hiker would probably just like take something. But in my video game mod I'm like, fuck yeah, clean it out. But then I had a moment where I was like, now wait a minute, are there other imaginary hikers? Should I leave this behind for them? I don't know if you guys talked about the bear proof.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, we didn't.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't think we.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I guess it's not story relevant. I was hoping it would come back up.

[Griffin McElroy]

I did have a bear encounter in the game that is pretty great. It's pretty good, the bear encounter that I had in the game. But I don't want to spoil it.

[Russ Rushlich]

In Case he was hungry, he didn't have snacks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Another one from Jack.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah, we have another one from Jack. Another climber. Jack mostly just sent a giant a list of terms that we thought would be useful. And I thought, don't look at the document. I can ask you guys if you have any thoughts on. What does whipper mean?

[Griffin McElroy]

Whipper, that's when you fall a little bit, but you're clipped in and so the rope goes.

[Russ Rushlich]

Whoa. Griffin.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Is that right?

[Russ Rushlich]

That's right.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Hey, I just guessed.

[Griffin McElroy]

It just made sense to me because it's like whipping secret little.

[Russ Rushlich]

We'll do one more. What is an Elvis leg?

[Griffin McElroy]

An Elvis leg. That's where you have one knee stuck out one way and the other one is straight. Like he's doing his little dance. He's doing his little Elvis dance.

[Russ Rushlich]

You know when you have a bad hold in Karen and your leg starts wiggling like Elvis.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, I see. Elvis leg.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

I like that.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

Also, they write to say Piton is the only way they've ever heard it, although I guess regionally it could be different. Do we have any honorable mentions?

[Griffin McElroy]

Drag Quest 7 is really sort of absorbed. My.

[Russ Rushlich]

I do want to call out that. I've been watching Fallout Season 2, which I think wraps this week. I think the final episode of season two just aired. I am consistently pretty amazed at what they are doing within Fallout as a show. It's the first time that I can remember where the show acknowledges the canon of the games that happened effectively 10 years before the event. I think New Vegas, the game took place 10 years before the show, and all of the events in New Vegas, all the events in the other Fallout games are referenced and acknowledged in, like, a accurate canon. Accurate way, and not in, like, a nerdy, like, hey, do you remember when there was Operation Alaska? Like, in ways that are, like, fully baked into the narrative of the show, which is an incredibly tough thing to do. So if you're a Fallout nerd, I mean, it seems likely that if you're a Fallout nerd, you're watching the show, but I think Fallout season two has really leaned even further into that and done actually a really good job.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I really enjoyed. I know I enjoyed Fallout Season one, and then Sydney and I both did, right? Because that's her only exposure to Fallout, but she really liked it. And I started Fallout Season 2, and, man, there are, like, so many disparate plot threads that my brain melted and I didn't remember any of it. It's like, okay, this is actually. Can't Keep going.

[Russ Rushlich]

Good critique. I agree. The first episode of this season actually, I think is not great because they want to, like, set up. Here's the six threads that we're gonna be weaving through the entire series this season at least. And it's too much. I think they do a much better job because in later episodes they'll just focus on like two or three of the storylines and then they just focus on. So you're not as distracted.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Yeah, it was so like. Yeah, yeah.

[Russ Rushlich]

You're not the only one that way. It's like, yeah. My mom, for what it's worth, not a gamer, loves spy mysteries, has got very into Fallout season one and watched the first episode of season two and was like, I don't like it anymore. I think it's worth at least watching two episodes of the second season. I think it finds its footing.

[Griffin McElroy]

I admire her certainty about that.

[Dustin Bakaran]

That's really.

[Russ Rushlich]

I know. She was very certain.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's inspiring.

[Russ Rushlich]

I know.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Hey, do you guys. Man, I just want to talk very briefly about Star Starfleet Academy if I can.

[Russ Rushlich]

Oh, yeah, please, please.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Cause it's like, it's so weird that this show exists. Cause this seems like a show that I've. I'm not unique in. Think I've been thinking about this show existing for 20 years. Right. This is like just a show that everyone kind of figured they would make eventually, right? Like, they've done all the other Star Trek things. So they're doing a Starfleet Academy one.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is.

[Russ Rushlich]

And, and, and I haven't watched any of it. So tell me if this is wrong. My interpretation of it based on just like brief clips and things like that is this is like Star Trek meets Skins. Is that a fair assessment?

[Dustin Bakaran]

So it is, right? So it is way in the future. Very disconnected from like everything that has happened in previous Star Trek stuff. Right. I'm not like, I have not kept up with the many Paramount Star Trek series that have been concurrent. I watched some Discovery. I like Star Trek as an idea. I've watched a lot of Star Trek stuff. I'm not a big nerd or dork.

[Griffin McElroy]

Sure. No.

[Dustin Bakaran]

But watching the show is fascinating. So here's the basic premise. There's this guy named Caleb who is separated from his mom when he's just a young boy because she is taken into custody basically by Starfleet. And this boy escapes from the custody of Starfleet, who he is in the custody of a captain played by Holly Hunter at that time, and he escapes. Fast forward 15 years into the future, this kid is taken back into custody for crimes that he's doing. You know, just trying to survive and find his mom, who he separated from as a boy. He is taken back into custody and since he is still technically a ward of Starfleet, he is given the opportunity to, instead of be imprisoned, he can join Starfleet Academy, a recently renewed refreshed Starfleet Academy that they are just starting to do this whole thing again that is being led by Holly Hunter, who is the Chancellor of the Starfleet Academy now. And the Academy is also a ship that can take off and go to space.

[Griffin McElroy]

Sounds good.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

All right.

[Griffin McElroy]

I like all of that.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Oh, by the way, Paul Giamatti is a bad alien who's super good at fighting and kind of was responsible for this boy getting separated from his mother, but also hates Starfleet, and maybe he's looking out for this boy too. So Giamatti in the mix. There is a scene in the very first episode where you get hologram Giamatti telling Holly Hunter, who is folded up across the captain's chair, about how life is like an origami chicken and just screaming like the most batshit stuff. Stephen Colbert is the ship's voice and he does, like, mainly ads for stuff. It's all a little cute for my taste personally, but it is fun. Star Trek. It is in the fun Star Trek.

[Russ Rushlich]

Mold that is Blodex stuff.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Not quite that level of like. But it is pretty. It's, you know, not that level of cuteness, I would say. Not that level of, like, irony or silliness. It's a little more grounded than that. It does feel, though, you know, more in the, like, Joss Whedon mold maybe, than a lot of the things. Yeah, no, like, it's, it's, it's, it's. It feels like they are trying. I'm old now.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah.

[Dustin Bakaran]

So when people try to appeal to young people, I don't know if it's working or not.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah, it.

[Dustin Bakaran]

But I. It feels a little bit.

[Russ Rushlich]

Yeah. All I know is that it has become a Internet discourse lightning rod and I can't. I haven't bothered to do the research on, like, where that is all coming from and whether it's racist or not.

[Dustin Bakaran]

It's an in.

[Griffin McElroy]

Assume yes.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Assume, yes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Assume, yes.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Right. Assume right. Because Star Trek is always that dichotomy of, like, its foundations are extremely liberal and it attracts some people who ain't. And that's just life. I mean, that's just the way I've been going to Star Trek conventions with my dad for 40 years and it's always been that way, 100% so. But it is, I'll say this. The first episode, like, really good premise, interesting ideas, interesting performances. The second episode, it goes from setting up the expansive idea to like what an episode might be like. And that episode is about. It's kind of like a mock UN kind of thing and then like a debate club kind of thing. And then because the War College of the Federation is like right next to Starfleet Academy, so there's some like back and forth bullies across the lake nerds, you know, kind of rival situation. Yeah. And everyone's in love and kissing and stuff.

[Russ Rushlich]

And that's all.

[Dustin Bakaran]

If you like that kind of thing. I don't know. I've watched two episodes. They're wildly uneven. I don't know if I'm going to go back for, for a third, but I thought it was really interesting that there's this show that is out there and Paul Giamattian is having a great time and Holly Hunter is fantastic, but she's Holly Hunter, so she has to be. That's the law, right?

[Russ Rushlich]

Yep.

[Griffin McElroy]

I thought of something I can do. The most recent episode of Make Some Noise on the Dropout Platform. So this sort of improv y comedy game show, it's got this episode at zach Reyno, Jess McKenna and Paul F. Tompkins on it. And boy howdy, it is a barn burner, folks. This one had me raffling all the way to the bank as a. As a big super ego fan. If some of the. Some of the bits felt, I don't know, true to the spirit of that program, which I don't think is around anymore. And it's just been a really fucking funny season. There's an episode that had Angela and Lisa and Isabella, who've all been. Or Izzy, who've all been on stuff, on it before, and they just spend the whole episode just tearing Sam Rash's butt apart.

[Russ Rushlich]

Poor guy.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's good tv. That's my recommendation.

[Russ Rushlich]

They make good stuff.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, here's what I have. Nirvana the Band the Show. Now's the time to catch up. Because Nirvana the Band the show, the Movie is going to be opening in theaters in like a week. And you're gonna be mad at yourself that you have not caught up on Nirvana the Band the Show. You might be wondering, how do I do that? Good question. It's a little difficult. You can find the first season of it on Amazon prime right now, I think. I think you can still pay for it. The trouble with Nirvana the Band the show is they push the boundaries of copyright law to their breaking point. They really, really test what you can and can't use as free use down to using like the Home Alone music and titles in an episode and using Mario music. People who are notoriously litigious, they have no fear of running right up against.

[Russ Rushlich]

I mean the name alone.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, true. The show is great. It's just about two buffoons who want to get a show at the Rivoli Theatre in Toronto and they go about that in every imaginably terrible way possible. And that is what the movie is about too. You will be able to see the movie and love it without having watched any of this. But I think if you are listening to the show that means you like video games and Nirvana the band. The show might be some of the most loving media about video games that you will find out there.

[Griffin McElroy]

The We Shop Channel song with lyrics oh I didn't.

[Russ Rushlich]

I forgot that was them.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's like. That is a. That's a genuine cultural touchdown for me across the worlds of comedy and video. You owe it to yourself to at least brush up on that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

True.

[Russ Rushlich]

I think that's it for honorable mentions. I have some folks to thank over at the patreon, which is patreon.com thebesties before I thank them, I want to mention that we have a new episode of the Bracket Battles that just dropped. It's very, very funny and cool and we enjoyed making it. Thank you to supporting us for allowing us to make it. Here's a clip from that episode right here.

[Griffin McElroy]

Fucking love to live in Inkopolis, but like bloodborne or dark souls, I don't really want to be there. Like no matter how good the hub world is. There's werewolves and stuff. So sucks generally.

[Russ Rushlich]

Not in the hub world. Usually no werewolves.

[Griffin McElroy]

Maybe let's just do objectively the best hub worlds, like as a gaming. As a video game thing instead of which is the best one to live in.

[Russ Rushlich]

How do I do that?

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, I don't know, Russ. When we decide what the best game of the year is at the end of the year, we're not saying the best game to eat the disc of. We're talking about the games as an objective, critical sort of look.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Okay, I want to keep why is.

[Griffin McElroy]

That challenging in the abstract? You've been doing this for so long.

[Russ Rushlich]

I can't rubric out which is the best one.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think we're here.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think bettered amenities. Better amenities stays. Because I think you're going to want.

[Griffin McElroy]

That no matter what friendlier Neighbors, I think also can stay. I'm just saying I want in.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Friendlier Neighbors. I don't know if there's a different way of saying that, but I want to reward hub worlds that have people you want to go back and talk to for some reason. Right. Versus just like, be they real people.

[Griffin McElroy]

Or video game characters.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Sure, Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think that we can judge that objectively without having to imagine.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I just think we need to agree right now that we're not going to get weird about Friendlier later. Like, they're not friendly, they're mean. Like, oh, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Interesting neighbors.

[Russ Rushlich]

Compelling neighbors. You, you're like, you're living in the.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Oh, look at you. Roget over here.

[Griffin McElroy]

Unpack your adjectives.

[Russ Rushlich]

Thank you again. That was a lot of fun. Some members to thank. Jack M, Chris T. Alexander B. And Diogo G. Thank you very much for supporting the Besties. Thank you to everyone else who has supported the Besties. You allow us to make this show possible. So thank you. Let's recap the games we talked about today. Chris, Plant, if you're up to it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Man, what didn't we talk about? We talked about Dragon Quest 7, reimagined, Nioh 3, and then we got into the other stuff. We got some make some noise on dropout, Fallout Season 2, Star Trek, Fleet Academy and Nirvana. The band.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Star Trek Academy.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Star Trek, Starfleet Academy, Star Trek Academy.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's a lot of Star Trek.

[Dustin Bakaran]

I'm not a dork though. I just have heard my dad say it a bunch, so I.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sorry. Star Wars, The Phantom Menace.

[Russ Rushlich]

Cool. Next week we're doing Mujanics.

[Griffin McElroy]

I will not be here for that one, but I will.

[Russ Rushlich]

Griffins definitely doesn't like Cats is what it boiled down to. I'm going to say. Here's a little preview.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's the part of the title that he doesn't like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, that part.

[Russ Rushlich]

That's the part I have not legit. We've been doing this show for 12 years. I have never played a game more before recording an episode of the Best.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Damn. I thought this was about to be a bigger reveal. Shit, dude. I thought this was about to be a big one. I've never played a game.

[Russ Rushlich]

I've never played a game more than I've played Mugenics before recording the episode. So take that what you will.

[Dustin Bakaran]

So I'll take. I'll take it. My opinions will not be welcome or valid.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Correct.

[Griffin McElroy]

There will be no space for them.

[Dustin Bakaran]

Look forward to that pleasant exchange and more next week on the Besties. Be sure to join us again, the besties. Because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games? Sam?