Mafia Is One of the Strangest, Messiest AAA Games Ever Released

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Besties – "Mafia Is One of the Strangest, Messiest AAA Games Ever Released"

Release Date: August 15, 2025

Hosts:

• Justin McElroy
• Christopher Thomas Plant
• Ross Freshik
• Russ Frushtick

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with a brief, humorous exchange among the hosts, setting a light-hearted tone. Shortly after, Justin McElroy provides a quick overview of the episode's focus on the latest entry in the Mafia series, "Mafia: The Old Country."

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2. Deep Dive into "Mafia: The Old Country" ([05:11] - [32:45])

Overview & Expectations:

• Christopher Thomas Plant introduces "Mafia: The Old Country" as the newest installment in the long-standing but troubled Mafia franchise. He states, “People often think it's going to be like Grand Theft Auto and people are often mistaken.” ([02:38])

Historical Context:

• Ross Freshik reminisces about the original Mafia game from around 2000, appreciating its ambitious narrative compared to contemporaries. He notes, “It was telling a mature, interesting, if a little bit tropey Mafia story.” ([05:26])

Evolution of the Franchise:

• Christopher Plant contrasts the original game with its sequels, highlighting how each subsequent entry drifted further from the narrative-driven experience. He remarks, “Mafia 3 was a little bit more of an open world, but the problem was when it went more open world, it did draw more Grand Theft Auto comparisons which it could not match up to.” ([07:39])

Critique of the Latest Entry:

• Justin McElroy expresses initial excitement about the game's setup but quickly becomes critical of its execution. He states, “There's like a very blatant guide marker telling you exactly where to go to.” ([21:19])
• Ross Freshik agrees, emphasizing the lack of genuine player freedom despite the "open world" label. He comments, “It's open, but you have no real reason to go around and very little freedom to go around.” ([23:10])
• Christopher Plant compares the game’s repetitive chores to a frustrating restaurant experience: “It's like going to the most expensive, fancy, decadent restaurant... and then the food inexplicably takes three hours to arrive.” ([17:20])

Gameplay Mechanics:

• The hosts discuss the game's poor execution of core mechanics, such as horseback riding and combat sequences. Justin McElroy shares his frustration: “I kept getting bored and I would like do other things and then I would have to reload and start again with a very long horseback ride.” ([18:46])
• Christopher Plant highlights the game’s linear story despite the open-world facade, stating, “Each one has a beginning and a middle and an end, theoretically.” ([20:22])

Narrative Flaws:

• The narrative is criticized for its reliance on clichés and lack of originality. Justin McElroy points out, “It is all serviceable, but, like. And it's better than a lot of video games. But it is also, like, all cliches.” ([24:44])

Conclusion on Mafia: The Old Country:

• The consensus among the hosts is that "Mafia: The Old Country" fails to deliver a compelling AAA experience, burdened by repetitive tasks, poor gameplay mechanics, and a disconnect between its narrative aspirations and actual execution.

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3. Break: Palate Cleanser with "Dog Walk" ([32:39] - [34:14])

To lighten the mood after the intense critique, Ross Freshik introduces "Dog Walk," a free game available on Steam developed by Blender Studios.

• Ross Freshik describes the game: “You play as a giant sheepdog dragging your owner around a snowy landscape, trying to build a Snowman.” ([33:05])
• He praises its simplicity and charm, comparing it to a Pixar short: “I had so much more fun than the five hours.” ([33:05])

Christopher Plant and Justin McElroy express their enthusiasm, highlighting the game's artistic appeal and interactive joy.

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4. Exploration of "Blippo" ([38:03] - [42:49])

Ross Freshik introduces "Blippo," a unique cable TV simulation game:

• Christopher Plant explains, “It's a cable TV broadcast from the planet Blip. You just turn on the old tube and you flip through the various channels and each channel has multiple TV shows.” ([39:41])
• Justin McElroy encourages listeners to try "Blippo," stating, “If folks, if you haven't tried Blippo, try Blippo.” ([39:35])

The hosts discuss the game's nostalgic feel, likening it to early Nickelodeon shows and praising its creative presentation. They also mention upcoming releases and the innovative aspects that make "Blippo" stand out in the indie game landscape.

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5. Listener Questions & Recommendations ([47:03] - [51:13])

JRPG Recommendations:

• Ari's Question: Seeking JRPG suggestions with good quality of life for platforms like Steam Deck or Switch.
• Christopher Plant recommends "Dragon Quest 11s Echoes of an Elusive Age," praising its balance of depth and accessibility: “It is one of the best RPGs ever made and it is absolutely perfect.” ([47:38])

Controller Configuration Confusion:

• Emily's Question: Concerns about mixing up controller buttons when switching between PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo systems.
• Ross Freshik and Justin McElroy discuss their experiences, offering logical solutions for managing button configurations and highlighting the challenges of differing controller layouts.

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6. Honorable Mentions & Book Recommendations ([51:53] - [58:24])

Book Spotlight: "Camp Damascus" by Chuck Tingle:

• Justin McElroy introduces "Camp Damascus," a departure from Chuck Tingle's usual erotic fiction, describing it as a serious thriller that explores themes of acceptance and identity: “It's a story about a Christian gay conversion therapy camp that boasts a 100% success rate.” ([51:53])

TV Show Recommendations:

• Ross Freshik praises the remake of "King of the Hill" on Hulu, commending its ability to update the series intelligently while maintaining its heart: “They nailed the tone overall.” ([55:37])
• Christopher Plant and Justin McElroy discuss the emotional impact and character performances, particularly the new voice actor for Dale.

Book Recommendation: "Stupid TV: More Funny" by Alan Siegel:

• Christopher Plant recommends this nonfiction book, which delves into the history of "The Simpsons" seasons one through nine, highlighting its insightful portrayal of the show's development: “It's a great audiobook, too. Like, a great thing just to have in the car.” ([58:24])

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7. Closing Remarks ([59:45] - [61:17])

The hosts wrap up the episode by thanking their Patreon supporters and teasing upcoming content, including discussions on "Wheel World" and "Sword of the Sea." They maintain their engaging and humorous dynamic, leaving listeners eager for future episodes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Justin McElroy ([10:35]): “He thought they're going to instantly bring me.”
• Ross Freshik ([23:10]): “It's open, but you have no real reason to go around and very little freedom to go around.”
• Christopher Plant ([17:20]): “It's like going to the most expensive, fancy, decadent restaurant of your life... everything else is there.”
• Justin McElroy ([21:19]): “There is a lot of water to the user to make sense.”
• Ross Freshik ([55:37]): “They nailed the tone overall.”

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Conclusion: In this episode, the Besties provide a thorough and candid critique of "Mafia: The Old Country," highlighting its shortcomings within the AAA genre. They effectively balance intense discussion with lighter segments, including game recommendations and listener interactions, ensuring the content remains engaging for both regular listeners and newcomers.

Transcript

[Justin McElroy]

Um, I'm about to begin the count.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[Ross Freshik]

That was worse.

[Justin McElroy]

Wow.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's worse.

[Ross Freshik]

Yep. Fuck. So when you say it works great on other platforms, what other platforms are you referring to specifically?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It doesn't matter. I'll have to figure this out later. Yeah, I think like long term what a solve is.

[Ross Freshik]

Well, what's weird is like again, long term, you were. We more or less had addressed it and then you switched the desktop and it was borked and then you switched back to left.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I want to try one other thing. Let me, let me try seeing if like, if it literally runs any different. If I run it through a different. Like if I'm get off Chrome.

[Ross Freshik]

I mean, is this just like a technological impossibility? No, because we've had it working. So there's like a variable here that we're not accounting for that I don't fully. Some sort of plugin or something.

[Justin McElroy]

Me too. All the way banana. You know what, Russ?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's not working on Safari. It's like just literally not giving audio.

[Ross Freshik]

But there's a process that's going on on your computer that's slowing it down.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I'm okay. So I'm going to do a restart and let's see what that does.

[Ross Freshik]

I think we should go back to. Before you do that. Okay. Fucking kill me.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I say that, Russ?

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

It's a shame because this is. Well, I guess we're just recording the backup here. This is at least. Russ, at least this is still more fun than Mafia.

[Ross Freshik]

Oh, that is. That's a gig pulled up and we could do that.

[Justin McElroy]

My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the week.

[Ross Freshik]

My name is Ross Freshik. I know the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

And this week here on the Besties, we have decided to sort of convert it into less of a club and more of family a la familia. Well, when you're here, you're la familia. And where is here? It's Mafia. The Old Country. Chris Plant. What's that?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Old country is the latest entry in the long running but long troubled series Mafia. People often think it's going to be like Grand Theft Auto and people are often mistaken. This time the trend continues, baby. And I couldn't be less.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, though we'll talk about that and we'll take a trip to the Old country right after this.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

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[Ross Freshik]

You know, Chris, in the, in the intro there, you describe mafia as a long troubled franchise. And that's kind of an interesting point because, like, they've been. What is this, the fourth one? At this point, they must do okay, right?

[Justin McElroy]

We could fill 100%. This is, I think Strauss, Zelnick loves the mafia guys. That's the. That's literally my operating theory.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Strauss owes a debt to a certain somebody. Oh, maybe you know, who helped him.

[Justin McElroy]

Get there, who maybe likes to take a video.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think it just seems so obvious that it should work. Imagine you are the people who control the Grand Theft Auto series and then you Say, why don't we make a Mafia version of that? That seems like a great idea. And it's like you take that to the board and they're like, yes. And you take that to the game designers and then they're like, yes.

[Justin McElroy]

And.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And then you finally bring it to the audience and they're like, maybe not, maybe, maybe it didn't work.

[Ross Freshik]

But there are.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They're all. Okay, okay, should we go, should we go back to the beginning? Take us back.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, so let's go. Let's go back to the beginning. Because I've talked a little bit about Mafia in the past and I actually have a lot of fondness for the original Mafia game that came out in fucking 2000, whatever it was. You're right, it came out around the same time as the like the GTAs were starting to rise up. But it was a very different thing insofar as despite taking place in an old timey open world setting, you really had no choice. Like every mission sort of led from one to the next to the next to the next as it kind of guided you through this kind of classic Mafia story. At the time that it came out, it was, in my opinion, very ambitious from a narrative standpoint when compared to other games in the world at that time. Like it is was telling a mature, interesting, if a little bit tropey Mafia story. I am having played the newest one, not sure that it has changed one fucking Iota in the 25 years or however long it's been since that first game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So this is what's weird. And we'll fill in the space in between. There is. They did get a little bit further away from that with each entry. Mafia 2 goes a little bit more into like, oh, we're an action game. It's still kind of levels are little closets that you find inside of the open world. You know, you drive around and then you like enter a level and you play and then you come back out and then Mafia 3, really Ferroni's hardware.

[Justin McElroy]

They say that it's eight stories tall and some of the walls are cardboard and others are glass and rebar. Yeah, I know. It looks like it's a two story. No, you walk inside chest after chest after chest after chest. The floor is littered with submachine guns. The place is incredible.

[Ross Freshik]

Justin, your voice is crushing it right now. You're doing okay nailing it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Mafia 3 was a little bit more of an open world, but the problem was when it went more open world, it did draw more Grand Theft Auto. Comparisons of which it could not match up to. So then, yeah, so we get this game, which is one of the weirdest AAA experiences of recent memory. It looks on pure surface level, like Grand Theft Auto quality. New AAA video game. Quadruple A video game.

[Justin McElroy]

I can't think of the last. I play a lot of the triple A video games, and it takes a lot for me to be like, whoa. And I was playing this game, I was thinking, whoa. Damn.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Stunning.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like you have. Imagine. Imagine if you had a magical horse that could take you inside a wine bottle label. That's what this game is. Imagine. Imagine being whisked away inside the label. That's where this game can take you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let me. I'll set up the setting, and then we can talk about how beautiful it is. It is set. Imagine this perfect Sicily, early 1900s. You play as Enzo, who is an indentured servant. You're working in a soul for mine. Extremely dangerous conditions. And one day you say, enough is wait.

[Ross Freshik]

Let me just say, you know what's a great way to start your game? In a completely gorgeous environment in a fucking cave for an hour.

[Justin McElroy]

No, I disagree, okay? I disagree because I do think that from Enzo's perspective, having that background is actually important, because I do think you appreciate the outer world a little bit once you get out of the mine.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay, I would have more appreciated.

[Justin McElroy]

I'll give them that boring part.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, let's put a pin on Enzo's perspective, because we're gonna spend a lot of time there.

[Justin McElroy]

He's third person. What is there to talk about?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

He pushes back. He says, no, and enough is enough. And he slices somebody. And then the Mafia is like, now, that's our people. You should come stay with us in this gorgeous Mafia.

[Justin McElroy]

It's a good setup. I was actually pretty excited about the setup.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

A solid setup.

[Justin McElroy]

You basically set up, basically escape, one family as an enslaved minor, and then you are rescued, practically by a competing family that takes you under their wing. If you want to talk about loyalty and motivation and a real, like, entry point into the world, Like, I think I was really excited by the setup. I thought it was really exciting.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The writing is so clever. Because then you go to this estate, right? And what's the first thing they do? They put you right back to work. You're moving potatoes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

[Ross Freshik]

I mean, I would pick potatoes over the mine, quite honestly. Like, that is an upgrade.

[Justin McElroy]

They basically say that, like, you like this better. It's like, well, the controls are Similar, but the animations are a little more predictable.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The problem is very true. If I were either of those things, I myself am the person playing video games. And I myself am three hours in and still doing fucking chores. It is crazy. You go from literally working in a mine, doing chores, not having fun, to going to a beautiful estate doing chores, not having fun. Two, going to a beautiful festival party, and guess what you get to do there? More chores? No. More fun.

[Justin McElroy]

Don't say. Don't think that he means chores like video game quests.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, yeah. Not like fan arts.

[Justin McElroy]

No, he means literal fucking earn your allowance chores that you're.

[Ross Freshik]

Slowly carry this box of wine to every house.

[Justin McElroy]

There's a scene. There's a scene. Okay, There's a scene where I carry this fucking box of wine so long. And then this dude gets hassled by some local toughs. And in defense of this lady who he has a crush on, he like throws the wine at him. And I out loud was like, no. Because I had worked for so long to keep that stupid ass box of wine hauled through this stupid village that I was more invested in not breaking this dumb wine than the fight I was about to get to have.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay, so let me. Let me take a. Take a step before we get too deep into the game. Yeah, I want to go back to the mine for a second and really we just. No, I think it's important. I think it's important because it's not the first time we've seen a relatively large budget game start in a dingy, dusty, unfun mine.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes.

[Ross Freshik]

Most recently, Starfield started the game almost identically.

[Justin McElroy]

Or mine. I know it's. Well, it's well mined if you're technically Donkey Kong.

[Ross Freshik]

Bonanza also started to mine a bit more fun than this one.

[Justin McElroy]

What if this. What if in this game the dude walks up to a wall, he's like, dang it, I'm so mad. And he punched a wall and it like made a huge hole. And he's like, what? Guys, get over here. Bring me more of those nanas. Yeah, I know they're freaky. I'm not gonna eat them. I just. Let me hold them.

[Ross Freshik]

I guess I just don't understand if you're putting your heart and soul into a thing and I. Maybe if it's a movie or something, I kind of get it. But if you're putting your heart and soul into a video game, why you wouldn't start people off with like a bit of razzle dazzle?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I agree with Hoops that. That Well, I agree with both of you. Starting up in the place of the suck and then working your way to the reveal of magic is a cool experience. The problem is two parts. One, the suck should be quite short because you get that it sucks within 10 minutes. Yes. And two, then there actually should be magic on the other end. And the real thing that both of these games have in common is the lack of magic on the other end. Remember, you got out of the mind in Starfield and it was like, oh, there's still no beauty. There's still no awe. It's just kind of a mind planet.

[Justin McElroy]

But get out of tutorial mine in oblivion. And it's like, there's a bunch of skeletons around. Go do whatever you want. You know, here's a knife. Go kill somebody.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, to your point. Crush. You can do both, which is the Zelda games where they start you in a place where you are stunned, and then they take you to a place where you are more stunned.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah. Or even like Avatar, that Avatar game that I didn't particularly like. I thought did this better. Or you're in that prison and then you go out to Pandora and it's like, beautiful and crazy. I just, like, I was watching this and I was like, I could have saved this team $6 million by just making a text scroll and being at the house.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, so.

[Justin McElroy]

But it's. But okay, I understand what you were saying.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I know what you are right.

[Justin McElroy]

But it could of course, corrected this at any point after that. Also, like, sure, I know.

[Ross Freshik]

I agree with you.

[Justin McElroy]

I cannot over and y'.

[Ross Freshik]

All.

[Justin McElroy]

The reason I said that about Strauss loving the mafia is to me, there feels like a level of. That was a joke. But it feels like there's a level of inoculation between whoever developed this game and whatever market pressures are, like, dictating the success in games right now. Because it does not. It feels so obviously out of step with literally, like, everything right now. And it is so obviously in such an infringement on the player's patience that, like, I feel like someone at some high level learned the wrong lessons from Red Dead. And they said, well, that was books level boring. We could get away with that. And it just, like, doubled down.

[Ross Freshik]

I think it's the opposite. I think it. This, to me, feels like someone was so engaged in telling this story, this narrative in the way they wanted to tell it, and. And the publisher was like, I mean, this is so consistent with every other mafia game. The way this is structurally told and how the interactivity is that I don't Think this is publisher interaction. I think this is what the developer.

[Justin McElroy]

Wanted to make, but it's like, why were they allowed? It's confused.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm going to put on my.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't mean that in a mean way.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This is pure speculation, conspiracy theory hack. And I generally try not to do it, but this game is so unusual. Trying to make an exception here. This to me feels like it was meant to be a very big game and they didn't actually know how to make the gameplay. And then they salvaged everything else and put it in a box and sold it. Like there is. We haven't talked about the game because there are stealth action third person missions that are unacceptably bad and they're so wide.

[Justin McElroy]

It's PS2 level. Like, like we're just figuring it out kind of stuff. Like really bad in a way where like the environment is so deeply, like so richly rendered that it makes the behavior of these enemies seem. I mean, it's baffling. I mean, you'll see five guys just walking shoulder to shoulder with the same animation and you shoot one with a shotgun and his wrist flips and the other three. I mean, it's baffling and it's so discordant with the aesthetic detail to get.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

At just how off this is. The hats are historically accurate. There are lifelike dead animals in the kitchen. You have the sweeping countryside. Every little detail, the performance capture, the voice work, the writing, it's all there. And then you get to the game and it's just not like the experience that I think kept coming to mind for this because I was trying to make sense of. It would be like going to the most expensive, fancy, decadent restaurant of your life, right? And. And you are seated next to a string quartet and there are celebrities sitting across from you. And then the food inexplicably takes three hours to arrive and when they put it in front of you, it's warmed up macaroni and cheese like everything else is there.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

They're so weird. I cannot express how much of the early hours of this game is riding on horseback while you listen to people talk, while you follow them slowly. And it's to a point where like, I kept getting bored and I would like do other things and then I would have to reload and start again with a very long horseback ride. And there's like once I was starting one and there was a prompt that's like, skip horseback, skip ride. And then it never happened again. And it made me feel like, so, you know, it's bo. Wait a minute. But you know, it's boring.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You can't.

[Justin McElroy]

If you put a skip button in there, then, you know, this is boring. So let me skip it every time. Because, you know, it's.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How long would this game be if you skipped everything? Because the game is nine hours.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, I legitimately don't know. I was so desperate. And I'll tell you, man, it makes the non interactive cinematics really feel like an encumbrance. Like, I mean, I go from like barely holding the left thumbstick so bad that my thumb is slipping and I have to just like lean on it because I can't.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay. I do want to talk about. Because we've basically talked about like the first 5ish hours. And there was a part of me as I was playing, it was like, I'm gonna ride this out as long as I can because I do think maybe there's gonna be some sort of payoff somewhere.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And you almost beat it at that point. Cause again, nine hours.

[Ross Freshik]

I know it's about. I looked it up. It's about 14 hours long.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

If I really.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry. I want to hear all of it. I want to say what. Just a last thing about the beginning part.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. Is it is not slow paced in the sense of a slow burn where someone goes from like a mine worker to wow, this is the first time I've ever had a knife. To wow, this is the first time I ever had a gun. Like the first actual like action set piece in. This is like you go from almost never having a gun to like sprinting around shooting 30 bandits with a shotgun. Someone insisted that there be a gunfight at that point because it is. And it's wild. Every enemy looks the same and he looks like the old racist TV icon, the Frito Bandito. Like, literally every single one is just like the Frito Bandito. And it's 30 dudes you have to shoot with a shotgun. It's so baffling.

[Ross Freshik]

Sorry, guys. No, once the game. Okay, so the game is set in chapters, like structurally. And you kind of like each one has a beginning and a middle and an end, theoretically. And each of the chapters basically mimics the flow of the beginning five hours of the game where you always have like a slow, very hardcore talky bit. And then the like, here's your payoff. The action sequence. And the action sequence will be like, I'm in a car and I'm like, I'm trying to rescue the Don's daughter, for example. And it's like you're shooting guys that are on horseback in your car, and then you're doing a dramatic jump in a cut scene. This is all stuff that, like, again, we've seen a million, billion times. And I almost wish they made it instead. Like, fucking pentiment, where the whole thing was boring as balls and, like, allow.

[Justin McElroy]

I almost would have been down with that, honestly, if the horseback riding and stuff is good enough that I was like, the problem is it looks so much like another kind of game that it's hard to not be expecting that other kind of game. And they know that expectation because they're throwing in, like, a lot of the hallmarks of that kind of game. Right? Like, you're getting the very blatant guide marker telling you exactly where to go to.

[Ross Freshik]

You're unlocking, like, different horses and guns.

[Justin McElroy]

Like, the first screen of this game is a QR code that you scan to get a special gold car. Like, that's not peniment, you know?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, yeah, Fresh. I went a bit further down that path, which is to say I watched a YouTube playthrough, and that's why I keep saying nine hours, because I watched, like, last.

[Ross Freshik]

Oh, you know, exactly how long it was.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And yeah, I mean, that's watching a pro play, you know, so who knows how long it takes? But pretty good experience can talk to the story here because the story is solid. It is. I say solid because how does it compare to TV or film, eh? But there's, like, a good romance. There is a lot about Sicilian history and the, like, early, early days of the mob. There's a lot of stuff in here that is quite cool. And that's where I agree with you. I would say I'd push back on the pentiment. And here's me being pedantic. Pentiment still has at least a good design idea that doesn't align with this. No, I was. What you mean. But La Noire is another series that they have, and La Noire in this game, feel like a match, but I.

[Justin McElroy]

Just want, like, anything. I would have been happy if they'd been like, why don't you go look around? No one has yet to say that, like, and it's.

[Ross Freshik]

I don't know that you can. I don't know, you can look like you can walk around a static area, but, like, I don't think you can just go off on your own.

[Justin McElroy]

I think you have never. This. Okay, I think this is the. The main question, and I need you guys to help me understand this. Has this been a Very long build up to a part where it opens up. Or is it really like this? Because it. That to me feels like a. Oh, man.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's what I mean by. It feels like it was a dropping game. Right.

[Justin McElroy]

It feels like something has gone terribly wrong at some point. They are throwing up map markers and stuff that very much feel like it's a. And I think that's part of what made it so hard is because I kept waiting.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

For the when will my life begin?

[Ross Freshik]

You know, But I would say. I would say it maybe was a different game, but you have to look at the historic. You have to look at the history of this franchise and all of the other games in this franchise more or less use the exact same structure that this game does, which is quote, unquote, open world. It is open, but you have no real reason to go around and very little freedom to go around. But really they're just telling like a very linear story, which, again, is not a bad thing if the actual gameplay and the things that you're doing feel good. I mean, this game has almost no player choice, which is like, so tough for me to get over. To feel like I am essentially the entire game as a qte, that's like a really tough thing to. To overcome for me.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I want to feel like I have some impact.

[Justin McElroy]

And I'll even say, though, like, even with the writing, I will say that, like, it is. It's all serviceable, but, like. And it's better than a lot of video games. But it is also, like, all cliches.

[Ross Freshik]

I think it's direct to Netflix Mafias.

[Justin McElroy]

That's all cliches. And the performances are. I mean, it's weird. Like, some of these people, they owe like performance capture rights to some of the Godfather actors for how closely these zoos are like, you know, just do.

[Ross Freshik]

You know, I thought VO is good. For what it's worth, I thought the VO did.

[Justin McElroy]

I can't be a judge of the accents.

[Ross Freshik]

No, I think they're very accurate, knowing, deeply authentic Sicilian accents from that time. I think they really nailed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I trust, I trust. I do want to say there is. There is some player choice that you just completely, completely zipped right past. And I can't believe.

[Ross Freshik]

Picking a knife. Which knife?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Close. Picking out the beads on your rosary.

[Ross Freshik]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, my gosh, guys. My wife gets upset when people use a rosary as a necklace. I can't wait to see how she thinks about it being a fucking utility belt for your perks.

[Ross Freshik]

Jeez, it did kind of sell Catholicism on me. I gotta be honest. That sounds pretty appealing if I'm getting pretty. Pretty cool faster reload times.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, that's the craziest shit, is the perks are.

[Justin McElroy]

The perks are like, this rosary bee gives. It's so insane that it makes the rest of the enterprise seem like a spoof by compare. Like, that is what you would put in the, like, Naked Gun version of this game. I couldn't be funnier when I was doing, like, when we were all doing, like, jokes about video games back at, like, in the ye olden times, I could not have been funnier than rosary beads, than increasing low speed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I also realized the Naked Gun Mafia movie is also just called Mafia, but with an exclamation point.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What a great film.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. This is one exclamation point away. It really. Man, I'll tell you what is hard. This is one of my least favorite things because it really takes a little bit before you realize it's not good. Cause I. Man, I kept thinking like, oh, this is good. And then I was like, okay, this feels like it's gonna be. I guess this is getting. I'm getting fired up.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay, so at this point, how many hours. What period in the story are you feeling? This feeling that you're having right now where.

[Justin McElroy]

I thought it was good.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

When I escaped and got rescued by the other family and they were gonna put me into their family, I thought, okay, that was crappy. But now I'm, like, in it, and they're going to instantly bring me. I thought. I kept praying to Jesus that a time lapse was about to start. I kept thinking, here it comes, baby. Let's see that montage. And then I'm running around with a gun in the Mafia. But nope. Yeah, nope. It pretty quickly wore off after. As soon as the. As soon as they asked me to. Yeah, as soon as they asked me to carry the box of wine around for 20 minutes, that's when I was like, actually. Actually eat shit.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That is. Mine is after the potatoes, before the box of wine. Because after the potatoes, there are people who follow the show closely will know that we talked about Indica, a game that also asks you to fetch water and do a chore. Right. Here's the big difference. One, you could finish pretty much the entirety of Indica within, like, the first half of Mafia. Two, it does that with a very clear point of, yes, this sucks. And the joke is it sucks. And the game is making jokes about it sucking. And. And then you go and do the rest of the game. What's so weird about this game is it keeps making that point. It is. It reminds me so much of the brainy gamer era of video games criticism from like the mid-2000s, where it's like, yeah, but it's good that this video game is punishing you and it's buying into like, yes, on an academic level. I can appreciate it. Unfortunately, this game is called Mafia and it's released by take two. Like.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Ross Freshik]

And you can make that case in 15. Like we've said it before. You can make a. Hey, you're suffering in 10 to 15 minutes. And. And it has the same exact level of impact without being truly torturous to the player.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, it is very confused. Like, it goes from a. You think there is a point to the whole thing. And they. Oh, man, that. That Runway runs out so quickly when you realize there isn't. I cannot. I'm actually kind of in shock a little bit to hear that. I. I just thought it was really taking a long time to get started. I really legitimately.

[Ross Freshik]

I mean, it does do that as well. It does both of those things. Takes a long time to get started and then doesn't get, you know, it changes. Like, there's more action in the game.

[Justin McElroy]

Is this a case of them, like spending so much on a lot of these resources? They just try to. Got to try to recoup something.

[Ross Freshik]

No, because again, the other games follow this model. Like, that's.

[Justin McElroy]

It doesn't. I don't think that can be right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I agree with Hoops. I. I know what you mean. Fresh. I think that was. I think the problem was they probably started out with yes, make it more like traditional Mafia. And then it also got Winna, like tripped down. I mean, it's just so short and there's so little gameplay and then there's so little. If they. I don't know. That almost makes it worse. It actually definitely makes it worse if they like set out to make this.

[Justin McElroy]

This.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Because then the question would be why is there not La Noire narrative features or Pinterest, like, why is there not anything that is a game.

[Ross Freshik]

It is $50. So there's. That There aren't too many quote, triple A games that are $50, but it's. There's also a shitload of other games that are not $50 that are much, much better.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I make a point about something real quick? I just wanted to settle this a little bit because we were kind of talking to the theoretical. So I loaded up a playthrough of Mafia 3.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

The, the very first thing that happens is you drive to the Federal Reserve and do a huge bank robbery on the Federal Reserve where you're taking people down. And then you're in the, in the army, like in your military days and you're doing a bunch of like action sequences. By hour 30, you are back in town shooting like the opposing. The Confederate guys in the hotel or whatever. Like you're fully in the open world, driving around, doing, I mean, yeah, side quest, doing all of it. There is no compare. I mean, there's.

[Ross Freshik]

Well, and even I did the same thing for Mafia One because I was trying to remember. So I looked at a playthrough of Mafia 1 and it takes about an hour and 15 minutes to get to the point where like you have a gun and people are shooting at you, which is about half the time, maybe even less for how long?

[Justin McElroy]

This is a different game is what I'm saying. I'm looking at a different kind of game. You know, like it. This is a game where you get to play in it. Like you get to play this game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And we're not saying you, you need to like go and be going straight to action shooting stuff. You just need to go to doing something. If you had gone into the game, you were doing any sort of interesting gameplay, but now. Weird.

[Justin McElroy]

Wow. We're crazy. Wild. Wild. Okay.

[Ross Freshik]

It's not often that I can enjoy a rant for that long, but quite honestly, that was a little cathartic because the time that I spent playing this was.

[Justin McElroy]

They don't make them like this anymore.

[Ross Freshik]

They genuinely don't.

[Justin McElroy]

They genuinely.

[Ross Freshik]

One game. Well, we have some more uplifting stuff coming in the second half of this year.

[Justin McElroy]

I feel much better, actually.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It is weird. We don't do this very often. It was a long week with this.

[Ross Freshik]

Game that was like a reenactment of the first five hours of Mafia the Old Country.

[Justin McElroy]

Let's take a break and we'll come right back and talk about more great stuff.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay, so the first thing I'm going to talk about as a palate cleanser from the first half of the show is a game called Dog Walk. Dog Walk is free. It's on Steam. It was made by Blender Studios, the people that make that 3D modeling stuff.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Cool.

[Ross Freshik]

It takes about 30 minutes to complete and you play as a giant sheepdog dragging your owner around a snowy landscape, trying to build a Snowman. In those 30 minutes, I had so much more fun than the five hours. You know, I wouldn't put this on the level of something. Like, what is it, a short hike? Like, I, you know, I don't think this is necessarily gonna, like, win huge awards, although I thought artistically it was pretty spectacular, which makes sense given the studio's history. But just like, interaction wise, like, you are literally dragging this little kid around this snowy landscape and he's. He has your leash. But realistically, because you're a giant sheepdog, you have, like, full control of the situation and you're just running around, like, looking for a shovel that's trying to, like, act as a cane for the snowman, and you're just having, like, a nice little moment. It felt like a Pixar short to me, and I feel like everyone should play it again. It's totally free on Steam, so there's no real reason to skip it. I would strongly recommend it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love that. Can I tell you all about college football? Can we talk about sports on this? We do this.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Love to talk about college football, but.

[Ross Freshik]

Just, like, focus it in a way that will make me care.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

1. It just looks beautiful. Watch the trailers. They're like Grand Theft Auto ass trailers. The game looks fantastic. It's got all of the. Haven't they figured out the ears?

[Ross Freshik]

Do the ears look okay? I feel like historically they haven't nailed the ears.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They're wearing helmets the entire time, so.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, I guess they haven't.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, they'll get around to it. Here's the thing about this game that I am loving this year in this go around one. The series came back last year after a long hiatus, and I had a little bit of time with it. It was great. I have been slowly learning how football actually works. Let's imagine that. I'm saying when I say football, I'm saying Dungeons and Dragons. It could be anything, right? I'm learning how a gameplay system works. And over the last four or five years, listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, figuring out, like, what all the different packages are on offense and defense. And had not really gone back to football video games. I was just enjoying it because it made it more fun to watch football, right? Like, if you read about esports. And then the amazing thing happened, which is I started this game and suddenly while I was playing, I could actually read the game because I knew what a defense was doing. So if I'm the quarterback and I hike the ball and I see one of my wide receivers go out and then break right across the field, but I see a defense's safety pushing in because they're trying to apply more pressure, then I know. Oh, my wide receiver is going to be open. I should pass to them versus the past, where I was just like, I don't know, let's turn to that wide receiver. They seem nice, and that felt really good. And that's all I want to talk about. I'm just saying it's really cool that a video game can be close enough to the real thing that you can invest some time into caring about it, and then suddenly you hop into the game and you can apply it and it all works.

[Ross Freshik]

I think Justin's on his phone.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

He's definitely on his phone. And he's actually playing a game and he's listening to a podcast. It's pretty incredible.

[Ross Freshik]

It's funny to me. I'm glad you know how football works now. In the past, you were like, oh, let me throw that guy. And you'd rack up like 16 touchdowns in a game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So, yeah, if you had on easy mode, but now you can. Like, all you're really doing is making it so you can play on a hardware difficulty. I get it. It's silly.

[Ross Freshik]

That's fine.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It was nice. It was. It was really surprising and rewarding to, like, be able to hop into a game and actually know what the hell was going on.

[Ross Freshik]

That's good. Justin, do you think it's comfortable to hold the switch 2 for long periods of time?

[Justin McElroy]

God, no.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, I would agree with you. I don't think the Switch 2 is very comfortable to hold for long periods of time. There was something when the Switch one was around that actually I found there's a very.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I do a good joke about.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Please.

[Justin McElroy]

I can't imagine there'll be much need to. No, go ahead, Go ahead.

[Ross Freshik]

That was pretty good. That was worth it. So when the Switch 1 was around, I used the thing called the Zen Grip, which is made by Satisfy is the name of the company. What was good about that? It was like a grip. Pretty typical. That is more ergonomic. But you could also use the dock while the grip was installed. Like, you didn't have to keep removing the dock on and off, on and off. And once I got that, it basically stayed on for the entire Switch one's life cycle. It took a little while, like a few months, but they are finally selling Zen Grip 2s, which is the Switch 2's version of that. It's the exact same fucking thing, but it works with the Switch 2. And let me tell you. Yeah, once again, a total fucking game changer. I can play Switch 2 games at length. I have no problem Whatsoever.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm looking at the website for this thing now and it looks so comfy. I think I find the Switch 2.

[Ross Freshik]

I mean, it's the same exact design. It's bigger.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Something about the Switch 2, I don't know, it really makes my hands uncomfortable.

[Ross Freshik]

I think it is more comfortable than the Switch one. Really, because it's slightly. Just from a preference standpoint, but not comfortable. I actually. The first time I held it, I wrote a whole piece for Polygon about how they still haven't quite nailed it. And I think this addresses the issue. So if you're looking to play in handheld mode, there are a number of options. I know dbrand sells them as well, but this is the one that I have been drawn to. And it like I was playing Donkey Kong with it and it was like so much nicer. And then when I was done, I could just drop it in the dock and go back to playing other games and it wasn't a problem.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So also, it works as its own stand for the Switch. Is that right?

[Ross Freshik]

I have not been bold enough to try that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Ross Freshik]

But I'm sure that's true.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Interesting.

[Ross Freshik]

I was width wise because it's the switches already. Switch 2 is already a big fucking thing. I was curious how it compared to the Steam Deck and it is now with the grip attached, basically the exact same size lengthwise as the Steam Deck is.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Ross Freshik]

So that kind of gives you a sense of how fucking big it is. It's big. I'm not joking around. It's big. But again, as something that I actually want to hold, it's a nice change of pace.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hoops, have we talked about Blippo?

[Justin McElroy]

No.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you know about Blippo?

[Justin McElroy]

Well, worth checking. Yeah, man. I checked out Blippo. If folks, if you haven't tried Blippo, try Blippo.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Damn.

[Ross Freshik]

Wait, isn't that a Labubu thing?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, sir.

[Justin McElroy]

It's a playdate game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It is a.

[Ross Freshik]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's a playdate game right now that is coming in color to Steam and Switch and Blippo. Game is a funny word for it. It is.

[Justin McElroy]

It's not a game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's a cable. It is cable TV broadcast from the planet Blip. And you just turn on the old tube and you flip through the various channels and each channel has multiple TV shows. And each channel also airs across I think 11 or 12 seasons. So it's just a recreation of the experience of watching cable TV and like local public broadcasting.

[Justin McElroy]

I want to see if I can.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hone through an aliens perspective Play date within reach.

[Justin McElroy]

Let me see what's charged.

[Ross Freshik]

Not to make the comparison to Rick and Morty, but I'm going to do it anyway. Is it like those Rick and Morty episodes where he's watching tv?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's closer to Pee Wee Herman in style. Like it's very earnest. It's closer to Pee Wee Herman. And if you watched early Nickelodeon like Roundhouse, it's stuff like that. Or Bill Nye the Science Guy, it is all giving that vibe. It is made by a bunch of different LA art collectives and you think like how does that get funded? And the answer, as it always is, is panic. Panic. God bless them. I want to do like a post games episode on what's going on there because they are out there just putting stuff into the world. And sometimes it's Untitled Goose game and other times it is the most bonkers shit that I cannot believe it got released. And it is almost consistently awesome. They put out Arco last year. They put out Despalote, Time Flies. Both those were this year. I think our game next week is them. We're doing hurdling.

[Ross Freshik]

I think you're right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They're just really making some cool stuff and very creative stuff. This is right there.

[Ross Freshik]

Oh, it's not next week, it's in two weeks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. But this is coming out in Blippo plus is coming out in September, in late September. So people should keep.

[Justin McElroy]

I'll be interested to see. I kind of feel like the lo fi is part of the fun. So I'll be interested to see how that, how that feels.

[Ross Freshik]

I would love to watch quote unquote TV on like a screen that's like a one bit screen. That's very cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I. I went to an event that they posted in LA that I think was also there like after party for just finishing the game. It looks amazing on both. You're right. It looks so good. Like it looks shockingly good on the playdate and really shows how good that screen is. But there's something about the, the color. They shot it in actual analog TV studios in la. So it's not the thing where you're like shooting on high def and then bringing it down. It's like. No, it really does look like you are watching old TV that just got up converted for you.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, yeah. It looks like early MTV like music video quality.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It looks so good.

[Ross Freshik]

That's awesome.

[Justin McElroy]

You know what I messed around with a lot while I was vacation is Pico 8.

[Ross Freshik]

Oh yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And this is something that like I would Just wanted to talk through it because I didn't really grok all the different components of it. And it's one of those things where like it's old enough now that I think a lot of people that were into it kind of like had their time or like they know about it, but it's not as much talked about. So it took a little while to figure some of the ins and outs. So let me give you the quick pitch. Pico8 is a fantasy console. It's not a real console, it's a pretend console. But that's like there's a standard that games have to be developed for. And the Pico 8 can run on just about whatever hardware you got. Once you have a license for Pico 8, then it could run on Windows and Mac and Linux and a little got Raspberry PI. You want it to be on, you can do that too. If you pay 15 bucks, you get the license to the Pico 8. That's both for playing games that people make for it, but also for developing games for it. When you get the Pico 8, there is a command that you can use called Splore, which is also the sort of like main browser. And Splore will let you look through all the games that have been uploaded for the PICO 8. And they don't cost money. You browse through them and when you like click on a game, it instantly loads into the game and then saves a tiny version of that game onto your hardware so you can play it in perpetuity offline.

[Ross Freshik]

It's not even a tiny version, it's just the game is so tiny.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like it is these. All the games are tiny.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, like 100 kilobytes tiny. Like they're tiny.

[Justin McElroy]

They're tiny, but they're. There's a lot of depth in some, I'll tell you that. Like, first of all, what's really fun is there's a lot of demakes where people have said like, okay, I want to recreate like this old Star wars arcade game with the vector graphics. Yeah, Someone's like, okay, I bet I can recreate. And there's like a decent version of it that you can play. And you're like, oh, that's really cool. The, the one that I've been playing a lot is called what the flag. And it is a. It is just a game where you identify countries, flags and you can choose the continent that you want to do and then it just speed runs through. You can get on a Hot streak. There's no. There's very little game to it other than that. But as a tool for learning that, I love it. That's exactly. I love that idea. You know what I mean? Like that flags.

[Ross Freshik]

Was that something you were looking to do?

[Justin McElroy]

I want to learn anything, especially if you can gamify it for me and then for the rest of my life I can look at any flag and tell you what country. Yeah, absolutely. I want that. I want that. And the game makes it possible through the power of the Pico 8. But it's a lot of fun to like you could download. I mean so many different genres are represented. There's a lot of like. Like for instance, one that's. That is is popular is called Picocraft that I've seen popping up a lot. And it is a little version of Warcraft that you could play with a little mouse and you can play your mouse. You can play this little version of Warcraft. It's so neat and it's so fun. And it's like if you have old hardware, you could turn it into a Pico 8 with very little work and that would be a very cool little project to do. I have been playing it mainly on the RG XX cube because it's like a square screen that looks very good with the Pico 8 stuff. But that's what I've been. I messed around with that a lot.

[Ross Freshik]

I would also add, if it's something that you're interested in. Everything can be played in a browser. So if you just want to test out some stuff, you can open up a browser without having to install a bunch of stuff as well.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'll include a little story in the newsletter, but I met the creator of Pico 8 in Tokyo about 12 years ago when he was making some of the early games that created popular voxel technology, which now we're seeing in stuff like Donkey Kong. But this guy, Joseph White is super interesting, just runs a cafe in Tokyo. Creates amazing stuff that ends up powering a lot of cool games technology and inspires all these artists and really kind of just modest, humble person quietly tinkering on stuff like this.

[Ross Freshik]

Real quick, we have some reader mail. Ari was writing recommendations for a JRPG with good quality of life. As in you can play it on the steam deck or switch one or two. I finished Octopath Traveler 2 a year ago and absolutely loved it. Before that, the last JRPG I played was Dragon Quest vii on the 3DS, which was too much and turned me off for years. I played a ton when I was younger, but I don't have the time or patience as an adult for really grindy games. Do Octopath 1 Sea of Stars or the bravely default remaster fit that bill or something else? Thanks so much. I guess this is just for Plant.

[Justin McElroy]

Probably excellent.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, there's a bit of grindiness, but I really Recommend Dragon Quest 11s Echoes of an Elusive Age. It is one of the best RPGs ever made and it is absolutely perfect. I think if you really enjoyed Octopath, you're going to really enjoy this game. It is like a 3D RPG. But here's a really sick thing about this game. With a tap of a button you can play the full game in 2D pixel mode. It is both like you can. It can look like a SNES game or it can look like a modern 3D game. That's cool. Yeah, it's quite awesome and I really recommend it.

[Ross Freshik]

We have another question, this one comes from Emily. Question for you all. Do you ever get the controller buttons mixed up when going between systems? I've been a PlayStation and Nintendo player since I was a kid and I was able to keep those button configurations separate in my head. But when my significant other got me to play some co op games with him on the Xbox, it drives me nuts that they use the Nintendo names with the general PS formatting. What controller config do you guys use on PC? And does it ever mess you up when you play on different systems? It definitely messes me up for sure. I play on. Usually I use an Xbox controller on PC and it's really just when I go back to Switch games that's like everything else. I'm fine. But when I go back to Switch games I for sure get it screwed up.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I was like, no, I think this used to be a problem for me and then I got over it in my 30s and then I looked at my Xbox controller and I was like, yeah, the X is at the bottom and no it's an A.

[Ross Freshik]

So yes, I think that Nintendo should give up the ghost. They're not going to, but I even though they were first, I think Xbox has it right. I think that alignment makes the most sense.

[Justin McElroy]

Are we talking about the glyphs? Are we talking about the orientation?

[Ross Freshik]

Oh, I think it's the fact that A is in two different spots and X is in two different spots on the between an Xbox controller and Nintendo controller.

[Justin McElroy]

But you don't have a problem with like PlayStation to Xbox?

[Ross Freshik]

No, because it's so different well, then.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The part that'll really mess your brain up is the original Xbox or not. Sorry, the original PlayStation Japan versus US, where they switch the X and the O as. What is your main command prompt?

[Justin McElroy]

So this is the problem that I have been into lately with stupid retro handhelds is that so many of these things default to one, like to either south or east as Confirm. And I have gone back and forth so many times at this point that nothing feels natural to me anymore. Like, I don't. I don't have one that. Because I was playing like Banana Anza and I was using the Confirm on the. You know, the, The. The. The. The Confirm over on the. The east side. And that's the way a lot of those Japanese PlayStation games are. So I'm doing that half the time, but nothing feels right anymore. I don't. I don't know what the true answer is anymore. For me, if it should be Confirm on the bottom or Confirm on the right.

[Ross Freshik]

I think it's a question of what are you doing more. And I think if you are confirming more than you're canceling, the button that your thumb is on more frequently, which would be the south button, should be confirmed.

[Justin McElroy]

That makes sense to me.

[Ross Freshik]

That's my logic of it.

[Justin McElroy]

That's logical.

[Ross Freshik]

That doesn't really jive with what Nintendo has been doing. I realized they were first, but you have to keep in mind they were first and they kind of figured out the lineup. The, like, arrangement on the NES when it was just two, like, buttons that were directly in a line together. And then they had to convert that into something that was in a diamond shape for snes. And I think it's just been a mess ever since.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, I get confused. And I would prefer it if everyone just sort of accepted the. Except on south, because I think that's the mo.

[Justin McElroy]

Someday.

[Ross Freshik]

Someday. Okay, any honorable mentions before we wrap?

[Justin McElroy]

I would just like to mention very quick. I read a great book while I was on vacation called Camp Damascus. And it is by Chuck Tingle, who you may know from his Tinglers that he writes a lot of erotic fiction. A lot of erotic fiction with a lot of really disparate themes like dinosaurs or tide pods or a lot of really erotic. If you've never looked up the name Chuck Tingle, then you should look up the name Chuck Tingle, because usually he writes Tinglers.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Which this is not a Tingler. Okay. Chuck Tingle mainly writes books like his.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Face Raptor Butt Trilogy.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. There's Trans Wizard Harriet Porber and the Bad Boy Parasaur O Lopfus. Not pounded by anything. Six platonic tales of non sexual encounters. There's a lot of different Chuck Tingle books, but this is a not explicitly erotic, not like space raptor bud ascension or pounded by how good this bowl of cereal is at like 2 in the morning or you know, any of those like classic Chuck Tingle stories. This is a story about. This is a serious book about a Christian gay conversion therapy camp that boasts a 100% success rate, but none of the kids that have gone can quite explain what happens there. And it is a story about, I mean about that concept, about the questions that sort of begs and about like the nature of accepting that acceptance about yourself. It's a really, really great, like fun thriller setup. Like a lot of like horror imagery and like really moves fast with a fun central character, but it's saying a lot of really interesting stuff. And if you've only run into Chuck Tingle as a creative erotic fiction, then I think that you're going to be really impressed by Camp Damascus. He's got another a follow up to that called Bury your gaze. It's in a similar, more serious realm.

[Ross Freshik]

But not as seriously pounded by President Bigfoot.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry, say again?

[Ross Freshik]

Not as serious as pounded by President Bigfoot.

[Justin McElroy]

No, not as serious as that. Although that one is quite moving in spots. I should also mention, just in the sense of fairness, that Chuck Tingle does have a podcast where he has people read his books and do audiobooks. And I did perform pounded in the butt by my handsome Tide pod. So if you did. Yeah, so there is a connection there. That's full. I wanted to be honest about this disclosure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Justin McElroy]

I want it to my wife. So it's, it's tasteful.

[Ross Freshik]

I wanted to shout out the King of the Hill remake, which is on streaming now on Hulu. It's great. I am a huge, huge King of the Hill, Stan. It is probably my go to like comfort in the way that people watch the Office or Friends or whatever. I think King of the Hill is that, which isn't a shock because it was made by Greg Daniels originally. And I think the remake has done a really very clever, smart job of updating the format of it and making sense of the fact that like, like why would Hank Hill be bewildered by an Uber and sort of justifying that in the narrative in just a really smart way.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So I cried during the end of the first episode and I was like, what is going on here? Like, this is some real, like, I need therapy. And I think the thing is it was the show that got me through the first year with Mosi. It was like my. Every time I was up at 2 in the morning, that was what I was just watching. And I think it was a mix of, like, that and then just kind of genuine relief that it didn't. One, it didn't suck, and two, that it wasn't, like, mean or hateful. In fact, it's. It's much nicer than even the original episodes. This is some Simpsons season two, season three level sweetness going on here. And also, you're right, it is amazing how prompts like Hank and Bobby get into craft brewing, which sounds like it should be trite, and yet they know just how to thread the needle to make it like, oh, yeah. This is actually quite nice and relatable. Yeah, I'm. I don't know why I'm stunned, because, yes, Greg Daniels and also Mike Judge has an incredible hit rate. So, yeah, it's good.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, it's a new showrunner, so that's pretty impressive. But, yeah, I think they just nailed the tone overall, and I'm. It's. It's redeeming because that would have crushed me if it came out and was just like, something that was like a hollow form of itself. I was really pleased to see it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Come back like every other TV return. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

My fun fact about that that entertains me is they have a new voice for Dale. It's Toby Huss, who's done some of the other characters. But do you know what? Toby Huss is perhaps most famous?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Artie, the strongest man in the world.

[Justin McElroy]

Strongest man in the world. Yes. That's my favorite. That's my favorite. Made me so happy. Toby Husk working hoops.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Did you.

[Ross Freshik]

What?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Did you watch Halt and Catch Fire?

[Justin McElroy]

No, I was playing sports and reading books about sports.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, that's fair. You should watch Halt and catch Fire. It's gonna be your new favorite TV show.

[Justin McElroy]

I have to do pilates and workouts.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay. Okay. Toby leg day. So even more reason to go see weapons.

[Justin McElroy]

I love to see Toby. He's really actually extreme. He's in Weird. The Weird Al biopic as Weird Al's dad is freaking hysterical. He's so funny.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

He's so good. My very quick thing that also I think both of you will dig. Is stupid tv. Be more funny. It is a new nonfiction book by Alan Siegel, and it is the history of the Simpsons, basically seasons one through nine or so.

[Ross Freshik]

The worst seasons.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, yeah. Nobody likes those early ones, so they really find themselves around episodes, but it's about how the show came together, how the writers room worked, how individual episodes kind of fell into place, and talks with tons of people from behind the scenes and does a really good job of not falling into the trap. That can happen with simpsons nonfiction, where it's like, who do we give credit to? Who was the person who made this good? Was it Matt Groening? Was it this person? Was it? And instead, it just really clearly states what individual people contributed. And then you can kind of piece together what you think. Because the trick is what you like about the simpsons is not the same as what other people like about it. So it might be that you think, like, oh, Simon is most important because he contributed just the structure or somebody. What's his name? Oh, my gosh. Gracie films contributed the heart.

[Ross Freshik]

James l. Brooks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. And being able to see it actually come together, it's really interesting. And a great audiobook, too. Like, a great thing just to have in the car.

[Ross Freshik]

Cool.

[Justin McElroy]

I read. God, I've already read a simpsons history. The Simpsons, the oral history that came out. I can't believe I'm going to read another simpsons history, But I think I probably actually am gonna do that. I will read any TV history book that, like, anything, Even shows that, like, I didn't care about. Like, if it's, like, desperate networks, stuff like that, I'll read any.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's wild how also, little Conan o' brien was there. I always forget that he was there for, like, a season. But yeah.

[Ross Freshik]

Yeah, okay, we did it. I wanted to thank some patrons [e-mail] thebesties we have dj we have justin, we have Billy, and we have blurp. Thanks, y'.

[Justin McElroy]

All.

[Ross Freshik]

Thank you for supporting us. We have a new episode of resties that's up.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you, blurp. Blurp loves begging him to listen.

[Ross Freshik]

We talked about wheel world this week, which is a really great game. I highly recommend it.

[Justin McElroy]

I should have talked about wheel world.

[Ross Freshik]

You blew it. Cool. And next week we're doing a game called sword of the sea, which is a game from the abzu team. So I imagine it's gonna be, like, experiential and weird and cool. I don't know. I haven't played it yet, but journey.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm getting excited already. Just don't make me carry any grapes.

[Ross Freshik]

I like games like journey. I think it's gonna be in that. That vein. Okay, I think we did it. What do you think, juice?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, man. Let's get out of here. Be sure to join us again next week on the besties because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games Sa.