← The Besties
The Besties
Mario + Hulk + Red Faction = Donkey Kong Bananza
00:52:55
Donkey Kong Bananza isn't the game we expected Nintendo would create to launch the Switch 2. But we're so glad they made this weird, wonderful, and inverted platformer. Who needs to jump when you can smash? Plus, what other Nintendo series deserve the AAA treatment?
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Transcript195 lines
- [00:00]
Russ Frostchuk
Chris Plant, here's the deal. I have the sides in front of me and really we just have one line that we need you to do. And hopefully you can take as many tries as you want. You don't need to get it perfect the first time through. But if you just read this line for us, just however you want to deliver it and we'll go from there.
- [00:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Okay? Oh, banana.
- [00:30]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, you don't sound so excited about the banana. I want a little more enthusiasm. Like you just found a banana and you're pretty pumped about it.
- [00:40]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, banana.
- [00:43]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, now you're just confused. You don't know what a banana is. You've never seen a banana in your life. You love bananas. You're a banana loving creature. So I want to hear that in the delivery ova.
- [00:56]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Nana.
- [00:58]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, that's just. I don't know what that is.
- [01:02]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Can you give me one more try?
- [01:03]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, one more try. Go for it.
- [01:06]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, man.
- [01:08]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, there it is. Check the gate. We got it. He's got the job. Congrats. Chris Plant, new voice of Donkey Kong Donkey. Well, no, no, no, we don't. The rap is already taken care of. We don't need anyone for the rap.
- [01:24]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sorry, I. You know what? I'm sorry for wasting your time. I'll see.
- [01:28]
Russ Frostchuk
I appreciate it.
- [01:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Stephanie.
- [01:31]
Russ Frostchuk
I don't think I got the. My name is. Oh, my God. I'm doing it first. My name is Russ Frostchuk and I know the best game of the week.
- [01:57]
Christopher Thomas Plant
My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week and the best game in a very long time. What a game.
- [02:06]
Russ Frostchuk
Welcome to the Besties. Where the best. Oh, no. That's not how we do it. Welcome to the Besties. It's a video game club. And just by listening, you remember they've come a long way since Pac Man. They sure have. And today it's just Plant and I. The McElroy boys are dealing with some family stuff and they were unable to join because of some very last minute scenarios. I'm sure we will hear about their opinions on this game on the subsequent episode that we do. But for right now, we wanted to make sure that you guys heard just an initial Donkey Kong Bonanza episode. Chris Plant, what is Donkey Kong Bonanza?
- [02:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Donkey Kong Bonanza. It's like that Super Mario Odyssey game that you love so much. Except for now you're Donkey Kong and you can break the shit out of everything. In the words of Fred Durst, give me something to break. And we did. Nintendo gave us something to break everything. In this video game, I thank Fred.
- [03:02]
Russ Frostchuk
I thank Nintendo, and I thank Donkey Kong. Let's get into it. This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know, the new era of power has arrived with the Alienware Area 51 Gaming laptops intentionally engineered to push more power to the CPU and GPU for maximum performance. This otherworldly power, paired with the game changing AI capabilities of Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series GPUs with DLSS4amplifies performance and image precision for ultra smooth, stunning gameplay. Fused with Alienware's enhanced thermal solutions, it creates a higher power output without raising noise levels, allowing you to play with confidence even during the most demanding marathon gaming sessions. So no matter what you're playing, Alienware ensures every game runs precisely as its developers intended. A new era of power is here. All you have to do is take it. Discover Area 51 today@alienware.com okay, so I played, I mentioned this before, but I played Donkey Kong Bonanza briefly at the Nintendo Switch to like the first hands on preview ever.
- [04:14]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Brag.
- [04:14]
Russ Frostchuk
And I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah, I did not think the entire game was going to be as focused on the blowing shit up that this game is focused on, but man, they, they just like commit to the idea that you're. You're Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong loves bananas. The bananas are in the rocks for some reason, and you need to get at them.
- [04:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. The way to think about this game as a platformer or whatever you want to call it in the Mario style is if Mario is about jumping to get to various areas around a platform and kind of fast movement. This is about carving straight through a lot of the puzzles in this game. A lot of them are about being able to create paths through the environment. So that means at the very beginning of a level, you might just say, I wonder what happens if I go straight down. And if you bury, bury, bury, or dig, dig, dig, you will find that there is a banana, which is the equivalent of the gold stars in the Mario games.
- [05:20]
Russ Frostchuk
Yes.
- [05:20]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's waiting right there for you. So one, it just rewards discovery, but two, you might find that there's a puzzle where there's a tube of steel that cannot be broken by bashing. Oh, no, what are we going to do? You have to find other things that can be destroyed to create the path into that, that giant, I don't know, super protective tube. It is. The puzzles of the game are the smashing and the bashing and the boring and the digging.
- [05:52]
Russ Frostchuk
Not boring, but boring. Bo.
- [05:55]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. Like, you are a subway bore.
- [05:58]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah. It's interesting because when you first start out, like, the early environments tend to be like, where is the challenge in this? Because you're really just going through and just like, dig, dig, dig. Oh, I see a banana. Because of my like, ability to sonar my way through the environment, but there isn't a lot that's in your way. And then obviously as time goes on, it seems like the environments get more. A little more level designed. Like less just like you can explode this entire level and a little more like, I wouldn't say guided, but just like, structurally, you're not necessarily just like able to dig straight down for 50 meters for no reason.
- [06:34]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It feels like a game. We're going to figure out how smart it is in like a year or two or five. Because it is so unlike anything that I've played. And by that I mean you play any big open world platformer game where you need to go and collect stuff, right? There's types of signposting and things, tricks that are guiding your eye on where to go, that once you've played enough of these, you know the language, you actually can see the way it's going to tricking you to get around. There are times here where I feel like a genius. Like I just happen to have just had this random decision to carve a path and then how could I possibly have known that it would lead to this banana? And I get the sense that they have so many little tricks in their utility belt to guide you through something that seems random and chaotic and happenstance.
- [07:34]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, the. Well, yeah, when I think about signposting, like, there are moments where you'll like be running through a grass field and there's like a circle that doesn't have any grass on it. And chances are if you dig in that spot, something's gonna happen. The other element, every area in the game and these environments are quite huge, has like, I don't know, fucking 50 collectibles per area. It's like an astonishing. Because there's the bananas, which we've talked about. There's fossils that you can collect that unlock, like different, like clothing pieces, whatever. There's like bigger fossils and then there's like super big fossils and then there's these randomly appearing chests. So really, whenever you're digging, it's kind of shocking if you don't find anything for like two or three digs because the, the environment is so littered with stuff, which again, feels incredibly fast, incredibly satisfying. Like they nailed that feeling incredibly well.
- [08:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. The cool Thing about the level design for me is it feels chaotic, and it feels like you will the very first time you go into a level. And I should clarify, the way the game works is you are going deeper and deeper into the core of a planet, but really, you're just going from, like, deep one level to the next. And these levels are larger and larger spaces that when you first land in them, you will dig and carve and you'll wind up exiting a hillside and not even know how you got there or where you are, because you actually never even explored the surface of the level. And it feels like, well, how do I even know where to go in this space? But all of the destruction that you do is persistent, at least when you are in that level. It resets when you leave the level, and that does this. One of many cool magic tricks. It lets you know where you've been, and you end up recognizing the scope, the geography of the level based off of the destruction that you've done to it more than you actually do from the level's design itself. So it's this weird thing where you're kind of, like, almost creating your own map through this big, amorphous space. It's.
- [09:51]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, I think the old version of that was, like, very old. Wolfenstein 3D. Oh, there's dead Nazis here. Clearly, I've been. But this, obviously. Yeah. Much more in depth, and you can really. It just saves you the effort of, like, oh, I don't need to dig here a ton, because I've really, like, plumbed the environment as much as I can. Which, again, when you're trying to get the most out of each and every area, that makes it so much easier. Do you.
- [10:20]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Did you feel lost when you were playing the game at all?
- [10:23]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean, the map is pretty good. There's. There's, like, a 3D map if you ever get lost, you're not sure, for example, like, you want to find the store or whatever. There's a 3D map that lets you really just, like, scrub anywhere you want and set pins so you can, like, oh, I want to find the store. I'm gonna set a pin on the store, and it'll always appear on your radar. You can also hold down the. I think it's the left bumper. Whatever, like, causes you to sing. You can, like, whistle as Donkey Kong and we'll talk about her. But Pauline is also in this game, and she'll sing and it reveals, like, if you found any fossil maps, for example, they'll, like, stay on your radar on the Hud. So that I think really helps in terms of guidance. But there are certainly moments where again, you're underground. You have no fucking idea where you are. You're just punching like a madman. Mad Donkey Kong and suddenly you're like, yeah, you pop out and you like fall 50ft because there's just water in front of you. Which feels very Looney Tunes in that way. So I didn't have problems navigating. I would say, what about you?
- [11:24]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, anytime I felt lost. It wasn't a bad type of lost. It was kind of the fun of it. It was that overwhelming experience at the beginning of a level where it's like, I don't even know where I'm going. And I am kind of okay with that. We've talked before on maybe on Rusty's about like weed games or if you don't want to call them that because you live in certain states. Podcast games maybe, but games that are. They benefit from a certain degree of zoning out. And holy moly, is that this game for me, last night I was playing in Mosi and Steffi had gone to bed and I was like, oh, you know, I'll get a little bit in before the episode tomorrow. And I had YouTube on, on the TV and that band Korangbin came on.
- [12:20]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh yeah, right. Like a vibey jam band.
- [12:22]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Very vibey. Very like modern day equivalent of like listening to the dead or fish. And I don't know, like two hours passed where I was just zipping through and I had like, that was. I was stone cold sober, but the vibe was just there and I was completely entranced by it. And I don't know, a weird thing about this game is I often don't even know if I'm on quest or missions. I'm just kind of carving through it. I don't know if I'm like, I don't know if I should be talking to more characters or if I should be like accepting quests or if my goal in the game is to just kind of destroy, destroy, destroy until I get to a new area where I can hop down to the next layer. But it seems to be okay with me doing that. And when I do talk to people a thing that, sorry, just very quickly that I do want to highlight, which is one of the most brilliant decisions in this game. Everybody's so happy you're there and they're so happy you're breaking stuff, which is really important because I think the vibe and the energy of this game would just feel different if it was like, oh, no, Donkey Kong's here. That comes up. He breaks everything where here there are characters made out of gems and you can, like, break them in half. And they're like, wow, that was such a cool idea doing that. I'm so glad you tried that. And you're like, thank you.
- [13:49]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah. There is, like, a Yoshi's story almost, like, upbeatness to this entire world. And everyone is like, totally game for it, except for, like, the villains, who are obviously, like, not that, but every other NPC you meet is like, yeah, super thrilled to be there, having a great time, you know. Would like to have this problem addressed with Void Kong or whatever he's got going on, but largely very happy to be there. I do want to mention, though, we've been talking a lot about, like, the Vibey. Just exploration, destroying shit part of parts. There are, like, for lack of a better term, like, challenge parts or even, like, puzzle parts where you'll find these warp areas and you'll enter them and they are, like, very contained platforming challenges or puzzle challenges that usually have, like, a few bananas that you find just by, like, trying to complete the normal path and then, like, a hidden banana if you, like, go off the beaten path. The closest analog I could think of would be, like, in Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom, the Shrines. It's like a very similar thing here where it's like just a very focused challenge.
- [14:54]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Or like the chase in Celeste. Like the little one off missions in Celeste.
- [15:00]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh, yeah, sure, yeah.
- [15:02]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Like, yeah, yeah. No, it's such a clever solution for. Well, if you can destroy everything, how do you create any order? How do you control the player? And by having that, it's like, oh, this is a thing that you've chosen to do. You want a more controlled experience. They're like a minute and a half long. Yeah, they're very back into busting shit up. You mentioned Pauline.
- [15:26]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh, yeah.
- [15:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Can you tell people how Pauline works?
- [15:29]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, well, just a quick history lesson. Pauline, for those that aren't aware, was the woman that was in the original Donkey Kong game. So when Mario is climbing up the construction site and Donkey Kong is up there throwing barrels, he's doing it for his love of Pauline. So I don't. I haven't finished the game and I haven't looked up spoilers. I imagine it's addressed because Pauline in this game is only 13 years old. So it is before, theoretically, the events of the Mario game where Pauline and Donkey Kong are, I guess, older.
- [16:05]
Christopher Thomas Plant
She's also the mayor of New Donk. City in Super Mario.
- [16:08]
Russ Frostchuk
Well, that's in Mario Odyssey. Yeah.
- [16:11]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Which we don't want to get too lost in the weeds here. I'm having. Jeremy Parrish is coming on post games this week to talk about video game history. And we'll have a whole lesson on the chronology, which is a disaster. But her power is. She sings, basically.
- [16:31]
Russ Frostchuk
Yes, she sings. And that's true. That's a good note because obviously in Mario Odyssey, she's very famously singing. She has a big theme song that she sings. So. But here she sings, and if you're playing in Co Op, her power is fucking outrageous. Have you played Co Op yet?
- [16:49]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I haven't. I saw a video of it and I was like, I don't know if I'm ready for this.
- [16:54]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay, so in Co Op, the main character, the player one plays Donkey Kong standard controls, but the second player plays as Pauline, who is riding on Donkey Kong's back like a piggyback situation. And at any given time, the second player using like a targeting reticle on the screen, similar to like Mario, what is it? The Space1 Mario Galaxy, very similar to that, can fire off these shouts that Pauline can do. And the shouts can be different materials. So if you set it to be like grass, she'll like shoot these big grass clumps out. Or if you set it to stone or even gold, you'll change what she's like shooting out. And there is no limit to this power. You can use it as much as you want, as often as you want, and it's fucking buck wild. Especially when you introduce a small child to the mix. And. And let me tell you, my small child, who is four fucking loves this game and loves breaking shit. This is like the first time that he and I have played a new game that he is so jazzed about everything. Before this was like, we're playing Animal Crossing, which obviously been out for a while, and different games that have been out. This is the first new game. And he is like Donkey Kong pilled up the wall. And. And he contributes like, I will be running straight as Donkey Kong. And he is firing off Bazooka's worth of ground destructing capabilities. Now, that doesn't make it easy to climb a hill, let me tell you, because he's just like destroying everything around me. But if I'm just looking to clear the map, it's going pretty well.
- [18:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You can just rubble that entire map in minutes.
- [18:41]
Russ Frostchuk
You really can, very quickly. It's pretty impressive, actually.
- [18:44]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. One of the materials for people is a basically a bomb Explosive material, so you can just truly wreck.
- [18:52]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, I haven't tried that one. In turn, she. She can, like, copy the material if she's, like, aiming at it. And he is not the best at aiming. So it's more just like a scattershot.
- [19:01]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sure.
- [19:01]
Russ Frostchuk
Cluster bomb approach to it, but it's pretty fun to play with a little kid. I wouldn't say you make a lot of progress from a. Like, working your way through the story, but all he cares about, and we haven't talked about it yet, is breaking shit with Pauline and character customization, which I am also deeply into. Yeah, this is the first game that I can think of where there was, like, pretty extensive Donkey Kong customization in it.
- [19:31]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. Yeah, it's. It's weird. I am. I'm kind of torn on the customization. I love it in that it looks great. His outfits are great, and I like the new Donkey Kong design. We'll get to that in a second. It's weird in that the clothes that you pick have powers, and it's kind of in that, like, I don't know. Ubisoft, Activision, EA Realm of Save X. Many points to get 10% or 20% or 30% buff to your speed in mud and ice environments, which never really feels exciting to me, but it's useful.
- [20:10]
Russ Frostchuk
And they're useful per. It's not like a 3% improvement to whatever. It'll be like, yeah, you can swim 30% faster, whatever. That's a useful skill. But it is weird to tie it to clothing, especially when it comes to little children, because my boy does not like it when Donkey Kong wears pants. So I am continually a suboptimal build because Donkey Kong cannot wear pants, which is. Yeah, it probably should have just been like, a badge that you equip or something that doesn't have a visual impact on the character, because I would collect pants just as a matter of course.
- [20:47]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I love that you just said that with such certainty. Yeah, I agree. You mentioned not getting much done in the story. A cool thing about the destruction, though, is there's gold everywhere, and gold ends up being the way that they gate you in this game between various things. So as you get deeper into the game, there are even, like, small little quests that will have a character say, hey, I can unlock that area for 1000 gold, or I can unlock blank for 500 gold, or whatever. So you end up wanting to. You're rewarded for the grind a little bit. I hate to even call it a grind, because it. It's kind of the Whole heart and soul of the game. But it. The game wants you to explore and to destroy stuff and to really find and discover new things. It seems like it will punish you if you try to just mainline the game. If you try to go from point A to point B. I'm really curious what speedruns of this game will look like because. Because of its gating. I don't know. It could look cool. Like how people harvest gold very quickly will be interesting. There is a bit of orange, I think.
- [22:08]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah. In terms of what's actually in the ground. I agree. And the treasure chests tend to be, I think orange based as well. So the gold gating that you're talking about is really just like when you reach like certain moments, they'll be like, oh, we actually need 10,000 gold to like open this thing. Correct.
- [22:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think you can still. There are other ways of like progressing the core levels. There are just certain. I've started to come across more things where they're asking me for gold to keep moving. And I. Yeah. What's funny how much that happens.
- [22:39]
Russ Frostchuk
What's funny is that because of playing co op with him and him not really wanting to do anything but like, dig.
- [22:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Russ Frostchuk
Gold is like, so not a problem. I have so much fucking gold. It is. I'm drowning in it. And it constantly respawns and it's everywhere. And honestly, like, even when I see gold, like the urge to break it up is incredible because it feels so good when they. When you do that. So I haven't hit that wall, but I. Yeah. It will be interesting to see if people figure out a way to like get enough to get to the next area and the next area.
- [23:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. Yeah. Any. Any other kind of thoughts on it about, you know, did you. Did it feel overpowered for you? I mean, you mentioned that in co op and even if it does, like, do you mind?
- [23:23]
Russ Frostchuk
No, I don't. I don't care. I mean, it does feel overpowered, but I don't care. I don't think Nintendo cares. I think they just wanted to feel good. You certainly feel very powerful as Donkey Kong, whether you're playing co op or not. To the point where a lot of the fights that I've done, like the larger fights tend to be like, well, fuck that guy up. You can turn into. We haven't talked about. You can turn into like the equivalent of like super forms of Donkey Kong that have different powers. But the base, the first one you're getting is really just you Turn into a giant Donkey Kong and you're much more powerful than you were previously.
- [23:58]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [23:58]
Russ Frostchuk
And so that, you know, activating that in the first third of the game feels like a cheat code that you're entering because you are just so astonishingly powerful as that Donkey Kong. And you just trivialize basically any bosses that you come across.
- [24:13]
Christopher Thomas Plant
This seems to be the new model of Nintendo game design of if you want to be ultra powerful and you want to just crush the game beneath you, you can. If you want to give yourself more challenge and come up with, like, a more creative way to beat something, you can also do that. And it's going to rely on you to make that decision.
- [24:37]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, with. With Tears of the Kingdom, like, I don't think that's the case. Like, I really tears the kingdom. I don't. I mean, you. Theoretically, if you, like, look at guides or whatever, I guess you could whatever break it with. With like, abusing the systems like respawn zone, item of the fuck. But I think broadly speaking, like, for. For like the first 10 hours of that game, you feel pretty weak.
- [25:01]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I think that's true. But I guess I feel like Tears of the Kingdom, there are a few contraptions that you can build to solve pretty much every puzzle or you can get really creative. Like, it's up to you. But, yes, this is the most. The far end of that spectrum. Again, we haven't talked about the powers. I don't want to go too much into the powers because I think that is like a spoilery thing that you should discover. But as Donkey Kong gets his Donkey Kong superpowers, you can really bust through this game. I mean, they are the perpetual cheat code and you. You charge them up. And it's very silly because there's an option to, like, make it charge faster. There's all these upgrades you can get, and I have yet to have any reason to do that because I'm just constantly charged up. Feels like I can just live in superhero mode all the time. Yeah, I really. I really dug it. I look forward to talking about it more once we have the boys back, because I'm sure it will be part of the game of the year conversation.
- [26:14]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [26:15]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And I think it'll also be good to talk about what the end game looks like. We've run into this a few times with Kirby, where we really, really enjoy the game. And then you get to see the real challenging stuff and it becomes a whole separate thing that we love. And I'm curious where that is. I think I'm probably about five or six hours from the end. So yeah, we'll follow up on it.
- [26:39]
Russ Frostchuk
Cool. Let's take a quick break and then we've got a little more coming at you after the break. This episode of the Besties is sponsored by alienware. A new era of power has arrived with the Alienware Area 51 Gaming laptops intentionally engineered to to push more power to the CPU and GPU for maximum performance. This otherworldly power, paired with the game changing AI capabilities of Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series GPUs with DLSS4amplifies performance and image precision for ultra smooth, stunning gameplay. And with the new Cryo chamber design, airflow is focused exactly where it's needed most. So no matter what you're playing, Alienware ensures that every game runs precisely as its developers intended. A new era of power is here. All you have to do is take it. Discover Area 51 today@alienware.com.
- [27:39]
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- [28:58]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Okay, we are back and I am so happy that Nintendo gave Donkey Kong another shot. Donkey Kong disrespected Donkey Kong, the original Nintendo icon. He performs one rap on the Nintendo 64 and suddenly he can't get AAA games anymore. I think that's bullshit. So I'm happy that Donkey Kong is getting his, you know, his return, his moment.
- [29:23]
Russ Frostchuk
For what it's worth, I do think, I guess that was the last one, right? I was gonna say Donkey Kong. Yeah, that was the Last one was N64. Donkey Kong. The rest of them have been like either spin offs or throwbacks to the Donkey Kong country style. Those were great. But I would agree that they're not like full on huge, huge titles.
- [29:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And what I realized is there's a lot of brands that just get in this disrespect. And sure, Nintendo, I understand Nintendo. They know exactly what they're doing. You don't need to tell me this. But also like, why haven't I gotten my Earthbound AAA game? Just saying. So I thought what we could do is we can go through a list of the games that are either fully ignored, they haven't been getting anything in a while, or they've been bumped down to the B or the sea tier list in make our.
- [30:14]
Russ Frostchuk
Where they'll have like, oh, here's a card game version of this.
- [30:17]
Christopher Thomas Plant
That's all you got. Or like 99, you know, those series were like F0. We can start with F0. F0. 99. Congratulations. It's, you know, a novelty that we'll take out the store once we're done with it. Yeah, let's start there. F0 does this. Do you think it has any chance in hell of coming back as a major Nintendo series?
- [30:43]
Russ Frostchuk
Yes, I do. I think the last time that there was like a major F0 game was what, on GameCube?
- [30:50]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [30:51]
Russ Frostchuk
And then there was like an arcade version of that. But I think right now they've got. The only hesitation I have is like, they are a little top heavy on racing games right now because they have Mario Kart, they have Kirby's air ride is coming. So I wouldn't necessarily see. I wouldn't expect to see an F0 game in the next year. But it's like the other big racing franchise for them. And it has the ability in the same way that what did we play that the Fast Fusion, whatever that game was on. It has the ability to like be a real showpiece for the hardware because everything is moving so quickly that it wouldn't surprise me. It's also as they've seen as they've shown with F0.99. Like, it's great for online play, so it wouldn't totally shock me. I would like to see something more story based or like character development based, but I don't know that maybe that goes in conflict to like what F0 is, which is really just like an arcade racer in the style of Wipeout or I guess Wipeout was in the style of f0. So yeah, I could see it but it might be a few years.
- [32:07]
Christopher Thomas Plant
That's the problem for me is I don't know why they make another racing game series when they have made it clear that they will put all the eggs in the Mario Kart basket throughout a console's life cycle.
- [32:19]
Russ Frostchuk
And I'm sure there'll be more. And Kirby Air Ride. They're making sure.
- [32:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, that's true.
- [32:24]
Russ Frostchuk
And still wild to me in the same year.
- [32:27]
Christopher Thomas Plant
But f0 for me I would love either a game that is more of a story based racer game, a racing RPG like we used to get a long time ago or hand it over to an indie studio. There is a time where I felt like Nintendo was doing a bit more of that. Of trusting crypt of the Necrodancer developers to make the Zelda game.
- [32:54]
Russ Frostchuk
Is that the only example that I can think of?
- [32:56]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I could have sworn that there was more. You're right. I started to say that. I was like yeah, I've did that a few times. And now I'm like, I think it.
- [33:02]
Russ Frostchuk
Might be just the one. Otherwise they'll work with Namco and things that like. Like that.
- [33:05]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. But it feels like it would be a good partnership. You're right. In Namco Bantai. Okay, I'm gonna put. What would you put the odds at for that one?
- [33:15]
Russ Frostchuk
I think there's a. In the lifespan of the Switch 2. Yeah, I'd say there's a 20% chance of getting an fck lifespan.
- [33:25]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. Next one I have is the Earthbound Mother series.
- [33:31]
Russ Frostchuk
3% chance.
- [33:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I think you're right. I don't know if we need to say much more. For people who don't know Earthbound was a cult favorite RPG for the Super Nintendo. There was a prequel or a predecessor that was not released in the US there was a sequel called Mother 3 that was not released in the US. The hardcore fans have been badgering Nintendo for more Earthbound Forever and not without reason because Earthbound's main characters have appeared in Smash Brothers from the very beginning. Ness is the protagonist of Earthbound. So Earthbound has just always been part of Nintendo ip. But I agree with you in that it almost feels like it's been so long that it's a lose lose that it's not a big enough name that it will make you a lot of money. And the fan base is so rabid that the odds of you messing up are really High.
- [34:45]
Russ Frostchuk
So I also don't even know how big that fan base is. I know they are rabid. I know they're intense. But like, is it.
- [34:53]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Is it hundreds?
- [34:54]
Russ Frostchuk
Millions? Yeah, it's hundreds of people.
- [34:56]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Right. You know, that's the problem.
- [34:58]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [34:59]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Okay, so the next one is.
- [35:02]
Russ Frostchuk
Wait, wait, wait. Let me do a caveat. There were. How many Earthbound games were there?
- [35:06]
Christopher Thomas Plant
3.
- [35:07]
Russ Frostchuk
3. And didn't the third one never get released in the US correct. I could definitely see the third one getting a port with the translation, my.
- [35:17]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Friend, here is where you are wrong. Here's where you schooled by a real fan.
- [35:22]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay.
- [35:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
There are a few things in it that have not aged well.
- [35:26]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh.
- [35:27]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And they will never release it.
- [35:29]
Russ Frostchuk
Okay.
- [35:31]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. So I would not count on that. I think there's a reason that they have been very okay with a fan translation of that game.
- [35:37]
Russ Frostchuk
Sure.
- [35:37]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I think that is a compromise. Love that game. But there are some parts would need work. Okay. 3%. Great. We're moving along. Here's a weird one. Pokemon. I know what you're saying. Pokemon already has big games out there. What I'm asking is, is this really. Is this really the peak? Is this really triple A Pokemon when we see this stuff? Because I look at these Pokemon games. Eat so much shit for this. I love. When I say something, I'm like, I can already feel the rage. They don't look visually great, like at all. We can all agree on that, right? Like, they kind of look busted, I would say.
- [36:25]
Russ Frostchuk
I thought. Yeah. I would say the. The most recent one certainly was like, I think, incredibly hamstrung by the hardware to the point where they designed it for hardware that couldn't run it. And even then, it's still looked pretty bad. Yeah, it does. I agree. It doesn't look certainly on the tier of something like Donkey Kong Bonanza.
- [36:47]
Christopher Thomas Plant
No.
- [36:48]
Russ Frostchuk
So it'd be nice to that. To have that level of quality attached to it. But it. This one in particular seems. It seems unlikely to me that it would ever get that level of polish. Because they don't need to.
- [37:04]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Russ Frostchuk
These games still sell astonishingly well and.
- [37:08]
Christopher Thomas Plant
They make them at a much faster rate. Like a much faster rate.
- [37:13]
Russ Frostchuk
I also think that like, there was a new trailer for Pokemon Legends. What is it? ZX Whatever. X A. Whatever it is. The new one. And it looks fine. It looks good enough to me. Like, it's not. It's not jaw dropping, but it's good enough.
- [37:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Is truly the. The Pokemon away when it comes.
- [37:36]
Russ Frostchuk
Well, when good enough sells astonishing numbers of copies yeah, that's.
- [37:40]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You're right. You're right. Okay, so I. We're not gonna, we're gonna put that as na. We're not gonna give a percentage there. Here's one that definitely could or couldn't happen. I don't know where to go with this. Yoshi. Okay, so Yoshi is interesting because before Kirby got Kirby's big game, I would have said like why would you ever make another big top tier Yoshi? Because Yoshi is the little kid brand.
- [38:11]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [38:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
But now I don't know.
- [38:14]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean I think Nintendo has realized that you don't need theoretically you don't need little kid brands. You can design games that are fun for both little kids and for adults. And Kirby Forgotten Land is the like epitome of that as honestly as Donkey Kong Bonanza.
- [38:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [38:31]
Russ Frostchuk
Like perfect example. So I don't think they need to like Silo. Oh. This game needs to be so easy that babies can play it. Which I think is pretty much what the latest Yoshi games have been. They've been like very approachable, very cute and like amazingly like art designed but very, very simple. So I guess the question I would have for you is like would you consider like another Yoshi's crafted world, like a triple A on the level of Donkey Kong? No, I don't think so.
- [39:00]
Christopher Thomas Plant
No. And it needs to be a big talked about this that they want to have different levels of budgets for different projects because that's the sustainable way of doing things. I think Yoshi maybe more than any franchise is trapped in that weird liminal space and that it is not doomed like F0 or we're going to talk about pilotwings. But also by not being doomed, it has no chance at a comeback. It's doing just well enough that they will continue to make these games that are still targeting little kids because they're not getting the support to be a game for everybody. A multi quadrant game or whatever you'd want to call it. I would put like a big budget, the only thing. And this would be the most Nintendo thing to do. So it makes the percentage increase quite a bit here. Nintendo releasing Donkey Kong Bonanza from the Mario Odyssey team. Five years pass. I'm like wait, are we ever going to get Mario Odyssey 2? And like we heard you new Yoshi's island to Odyssey. We're doing it. And it's like the next Mario game is actually a Yoshi's island game in.
- [40:15]
Russ Frostchuk
The same way that the original Yoshi's island game was indeed Super Mario Brothers. Whatever it was.
- [40:22]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And that feels so Nintendo that the Switch 2 would never get a true Mario game and that we would get a Donkey Kong game and a Yoshi's island game. Yeah, that feels right in some really twisted way.
- [40:38]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean the interesting thing about Donkey Kong is it's a reminder that they, if they don't have like a drastically new idea. Oh yeah. They kind of just won't do it. So obviously Super Mario Odyssey, the drastically new idea, you were like transforming into different creatures using the hat and whatever. And that was like a pretty drastic idea. Donkey Kong, you were destroying the environments in ways we've never seen previously. I don't see them doing, hey, here's Super Mario Odyssey but more levels. The only time that I can remember them really doing that was with Galaxy 2. Yeah, but I think it's. It's been too long since Mario Odyssey came out for them to just like, here's Mario Odyssey with new, like new levels. I think they would need a pretty substantially different mechanic to justify the return of Mario to like a big new game.
- [41:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, I think that's right. Well so then where does that put the percentage for you for Yoshi, for.
- [41:35]
Russ Frostchuk
Like a big Yoshi game? I think if you're not counting those side scrolling games. Very low. I would put it at like 10 or 15% because I think it's. That's how it's going to manifest. It's like Yoshi will be like on off years when they're not doing either a big 3D Mario game or, or like a Mario Wonder. For example, like Yoshi will get slotted in as like their 2D platforming solution. That's my guess.
- [42:02]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I agree with that. Let's. I'm going to bash some of these together. Wario, Star Fox. Do you see either of those games?
- [42:12]
Russ Frostchuk
There will be a Wario Wario Ware equivalent game, I guarantee it. No, no question about it. It'll have online play. Whatever it is. As much as I'm dying for like while I was playing Donkey, I was like this maybe should have been a Wario game because Wario loves gold and breaking shit. So I think it kind of dashed those hopes. I don't think he's going to star in like a big triple A game, but there will be another warioware game. So if we're saying what are the odds of a AAA? I would put it at 2%. Very, very low. Very low.
- [42:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. With Star Fox, if I could merge these together, I have Star Fox, Kid Icarus in F0. If you. If I Could do. It's not a reverse parlay. I don't know how you describe this but if you could to say hey, one of those games is going to get turned into a major third person open world franchise that is like Nintendo's version of a third person action game, I would 100% believe that. Mostly because they've tried to do it at different times with I think all of them and it feels like a natural feeling fit. All of them have these cool worlds that you want to be in. They have great characters but the core games themselves have aged poorly. You know, the F0 still somewhat holds up. Star Fox, the original thing is not.
- [43:42]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean they barely run.
- [43:44]
Christopher Thomas Plant
So yeah, yeah, Kid Icarus, the original game is best not spoken of. But they are great IPs that they, you know, seem to return to every 15 or so years. So I don't think any of them individually have much of a chance. But I wouldn't be surprised if one of them somehow popped out during this period.
- [44:07]
Russ Frostchuk
I'll tell you what I want is like a space exploration Star Fox game where you're like going from planet to planet and like. Yeah like moving like you're like a space trader but you're Star Fox no man's Sky. Cool.
- [44:21]
Christopher Thomas Plant
But with yeah like a no man's.
- [44:22]
Russ Frostchuk
Sky thing with Star Fox.
- [44:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
That'd be fucking cool. Mind it. Speaking of zipping around, Pilot Wings and, and Wave Race are those sorts of games. Do you, do you think we'll ever get the. I don't even know what to call these, these oddities of the Nintendo.
- [44:38]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean Wave Race. No, I. I'll just say right here I'll be direct and say 1% chance of waivers.
- [44:44]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [44:45]
Russ Frostchuk
Because who, who knows what the future. But very, very, very. I'm like it's too over there. It's too limited. You're just like oh it's a jet ski game. Like I don't think there's a lot of interest in that. Something that's that limited.
- [44:56]
Christopher Thomas Plant
1080 degrees snowboarding didn't even make our list and it is in that same, that same pool.
- [45:04]
Russ Frostchuk
Pilot Wings. Maybe I could see a pilot. I could see another Pilot games. I think I could see another Pilot Wings game. I think the last one was on three ds. Yeah, I believe I like those games a lot and I think they are again a good demonstration of system power and it allows Nintendo to make like smaller experiences that aren't like a full on game and then you sort of just cobble them all together but like a big Open World Pilot Wings game in the style of like, Forza Horizon. Be fucking awesome. Yeah, that'd be great. I put it at like 10. 10%.
- [45:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I think the lesson from this exercise is there's no way of ever knowing what Nintendo will do. It's so completely unpredictable. And there is no consistency or rhyme or reason to them doing these things. I mean, even with. I remember before Tears of the Kingdom was announced, I had no idea if they would give that type of Zelda another shot despite it being the most successful game imaginable. And I still don't like that. I don't know what the next Zelda looks like.
- [46:19]
Russ Frostchuk
I think it'll be not a direct. Like, it won't be in the same environment, but I think it'll be in the same spirit.
- [46:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, that's the other side of the coin for everything that we just talked about too, is as they are figuring out different budgets. I am curious what gets shrunken down. What we get really small versions of, like, do we get a wave race 99? Do we get these things that are kind of meant to humor you that are the, you know, one off baubles? I don't know. I'm very curious. I have a feeling that they have a lot of weird stuff coming. And even before the end of the year, I feel like they have not put all their hands or all the cards on the table just yet.
- [47:07]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah, I think so too.
- [47:09]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Do we have some reader mail?
- [47:12]
Russ Frostchuk
We have a few things. We had this letter. This one came from James. This is wild, y'.
- [47:18]
Christopher Thomas Plant
All.
- [47:18]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh, this is in reference to PP Strello, which we talked about last week. This is wild. Y' all are covering a game in the style of a GBA Zelda. And I was just coming here to recommend Master Key. A one bit graphics, but plays like a GBA Zelda, if it had been on handheld 20 years ago, would have been my favorite game. Absolutely worth your time. I have not played this, but it looks fucking dope.
- [47:40]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The visuals are killer.
- [47:43]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [47:45]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah. I'll make sure that we include that in the newsletter because I am definitely digging it. It's also 40% off on Steam right now. I mean, it only cost 12 bucks normally. It costs 7 bucks now, but yeah, this looks cool. I also love that only one person I know owns this game and it is Chris Grant, founder and a longtime nerd. That's pretty awesome. What else do we got in the mailbag?
- [48:16]
Russ Frostchuk
We got another letter. This one comes from Connor. Y' all should check out Battle Train, the second train based roguelite deck building game of the year. It has neat track laying mechanics and a fun TV game show vibe. This seems like Justin fodder to me. If I had to guess. I know Griffin was really getting Into Monster Train 2 as well. Last letter. This one comes from Keaton and I will preemptively apologize. Keaton writes, Russ called Cujo, an innocent and lovable dog who contracted rabies from a bat, an asshole. That's true. I did and I apologize. It's not Cujo's fault that he has rabies. He seems very nice. Otherwise, he just has rabies. So I'm sorry, memory of Cujo. I'm sorry. Stephen King, you're great.
- [49:07]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Okay, honorable mentions before you wrap up. I yesterday drove up to Los Angeles, went to the Vista Theater, one of, I believe the many theaters now owned by Quentin Tarantino in Los Angeles. And I saw Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair, which I had never actually seen. Which. Do you know about this?
- [49:29]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean, it's just. I mean, I assume it's both movies.
- [49:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's a cut that brings the two movies together and there's like some changes. For example, the, the crazy 88 fight sequence isn't in black and white, it's just in color.
- [49:43]
Russ Frostchuk
Interesting.
- [49:43]
Christopher Thomas Plant
A few, a few changes.
- [49:45]
Russ Frostchuk
Did he make the cut?
- [49:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, it's his. He made the cut. And then the version that I saw was the same reels that he showed at Cannes Film Festival. So it had the French subtitles on the bottom. Very. Yeah. Very silly.
- [50:03]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [50:04]
Christopher Thomas Plant
But hey, what a great movie. And what a great movie. When watched as a single movie. I remember like more or less liking both of them when they came out, but it not being my favorite stuff. And this time it really, really worked for me. And it really does feel like just one humongous movie. More so than I expected it to, which, I mean, I should have known. But it is playing. If you live in Southern California, it is playing at the Vista Theater, I think for the rest of the month, twice a day.
- [50:44]
Russ Frostchuk
It's like four. Four hours.
- [50:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Four and a half hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [50:48]
Russ Frostchuk
Wow.
- [50:49]
Christopher Thomas Plant
But it's great and the theater is gorgeous. Like, it's like a really classic old school Los Angeles theater, but they've basically ripped out every other row, so there's just a lot of space between the seats now. So it feels way more comfortable and not so claustrophobic like some of the older houses do.
- [51:12]
Russ Frostchuk
Wow. Yeah, that sounds cool. I mean, I love both of those movies for different reasons.
- [51:16]
Christopher Thomas Plant
So it is Funny. I mean, I guess I respect it. They just show his movies that in the New Beverly just non stop.
- [51:25]
Russ Frostchuk
I mean, yeah, if you get it.
- [51:28]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You know, why wouldn't you? But.
- [51:30]
Russ Frostchuk
Well, and I also think his movies, like, are good fodder for, you know, midnight screenings and things like that. It's very easy. I don't think it's. Although certainly partially self promotion. I'm sure the tickets sell.
- [51:44]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, I mean, this was a 12:30 in the afternoon showing and it was packed. I mean. Yeah, completely sold out. How about you? What you got going?
- [51:56]
Russ Frostchuk
I finished Murderbot, which I thought was great. I know Griffin talked about it recently. I thought they just did a really good job of telling a very focused story. I don't know about the source material, like where it goes from here and whether it's like a individual contained stories for each season or whether there's some continuity there. But I thought it was just really smart and. And really enjoyable and like, I mean, very gory, but also like a light watch, which I also appreciated. So check that out.
- [52:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Nice.
- [52:31]
Russ Frostchuk
I think. Yeah, it's quite good. I think that's it. Wanted to thank some people. Oh, I have some news real quick. I am no longer working at Polygon. Just plant. Plants Aware. Yeah, I mentioned it on my blue sky. So just letting you all know, I. I mean, it doesn't really impact this show at all. Obviously this is a fully independent thing, but I have departed Polygon. I am the last of the besties to do so. So we are now formally divorced of Polygon, but there are still some lovely people that are still working there, so please be nice to them. And also, and a great time to.
- [53:10]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Mention that we have a Patreon.
- [53:12]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah.
- [53:13]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Also, and the resties. And if you enjoyed this episode, let me tell you, there's a lot more where this comes from over at the Patreon.
- [53:21]
Russ Frostchuk
Oh my God, so much more. We've got just tons of people who.
- [53:24]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sign up now get like 55 episodes, I think.
- [53:28]
Russ Frostchuk
Yeah. I mean, I don't want to diminish the support of the previous people that have signed up because you made those 55 episodes happen. But if you have been late to the party, you're like, maybe I'll wait and see. You have now waited and seen. And now you have literally probably 80 to 90 hours of content waiting for you to absorb. If that is something you want to do. If you have. You want us in your ears non stop. So you can do that over at the Patreon, which is patreon.com thebesties. We have a few new members to call out. Trampoline tales. We have feltis, we have Michael, and we have Bill. Thank you to our Patreon members. We love you. You're great. Next week, boys will be back. Griffin and Justin will be back, and I'm sure they'll talk about Donkey Kong some more. I know y' all probably want to hear what they have to say. I actually have no idea what they think of this game. This was not a game that I discussed with them prior, so I don't know if they liked it or hated it. So that'll be interesting. The focus of the game that week will be Ninja Gaiden Ragebound, which is the 2D, I think, throwback style Ninja Gaiden game. And I believe that's coming from the developers of Blasphemous.
- [54:46]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. Not to be confused with the shinobi update that we've covered on the rastees and that we'll be officially releasing in a few months, too. We are in an embarrassment of ninja riches right now.
- [54:59]
Russ Frostchuk
Drowning in ninjas. I love to see it. Well, I think that's gonna do it. Thank you, Chris Plant, for joining me for this very special episode. Thank you to everyone at home. This has been the besties where the best. No, good try. This has been the besties because shouldn't.
- [55:17]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The world's best friends pick the world's best.
- [55:20]
Russ Frostchuk
I got it.
- [55:20]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I got it. I got it. Go ahead now. You go ahead. You got it.
- [55:23]
Russ Frostchuk
This has been the besties because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game?
- [55:30]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh, Banana Sam.