Promise Mascot Agency is an Escape From Life’s Headaches

Summary

The Besties Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Promise Mascot Agency is an Escape From Life’s Headaches
Release Date: April 18, 2025
Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick

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Introduction

In this episode of The Besties, hosts Chris Plante and Justin McElroy dive deep into their experiences with the newly released video game Promise Mascot Agency. The conversation blends their personal gameplay insights with broader discussions on game mechanics and cultural implications, all while maintaining their signature humorous banter.

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Promise Mascot Agency Overview

Justin McElroy initiates the discussion by expressing his initial hesitations about the game's mechanics and premise.

“I feel like it's a sort of alternate reality where managing mascots becomes a way to escape real-life pressures.” (00:00)

Chris Plant elaborates on the game's origins, noting its development by Kaizen Gameworks—the creators of the beloved Paradise Killer. He appreciates the studio's return to their roots with a Yakuza-style open-world design reminiscent of PS2-era games.

“Promise Mascot Agency is the most PS2 ass shit I have played since the PlayStation 2.” (02:11)

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Game Mechanics and Design

The hosts delve into the unique mechanics of managing a mascot agency. Justin highlights the balance between overseeing mascots and the minimal direct interaction players have with them.

“The vast majority of your business is like just kind of overseeing the mascots.” (05:52)

Chris breaks down the hiring process, emphasizing the strategic decisions involved in mascot management, such as salary percentages and bonus structures. He points out the simplicity yet depth of the card game mechanic used during mascot missions.

“You look down at your cards and you have a set of cards that can be used to deal more damage to the cash register.” (09:18)

Justin compares the game to cooperative board games, noting its pass/fail nature and lack of traditional challenges.

“It's more like what you have available. It's a little bit pass fail.” (08:59)

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Narrative and Emotional Impact

The conversation shifts to the game's narrative and its emotional resonance. Chris shares a poignant Steam review illustrating how the game serves as a comforting escape during tough times.

“It’s a perfect distraction in your most vulnerable emotional state... it gives you purpose.” (16:19)

Justin adds his perspective on the balance between engaging mechanics and storytelling, praising the game for keeping the "monkey mind" busy while allowing players to immerse themselves in the narrative.

“It keeps your hands busy and your mind... letting the rest of your brain take in the story.” (17:37)

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Cultural and Metaphorical Themes

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the cultural metaphors embedded in the game. Justin draws parallels between the management structure in Promise Mascot Agency and contemporary shifts in workplace dynamics, likening it to sex work metaphors.

“It feels like the metaphor of a pimp and his people working for him is a... management structure.” (19:14)

Chris agrees, highlighting the game's exploration of these murky spaces through its mascot characters.

“It's somewhere between... are these mascots hosts? Are they escorts?” (22:23)

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Emulation and Retro Gaming

After discussing Promise Mascot Agency, the hosts transition to a segment on emulation. Justin shares his passion for retro gaming, detailing his projects with laserdisc games and custom arcade setups.

“I'm trying to make laserdisc games work because I want to have a laserdisc game arcade.” (30:49)

Chris and Justin exchange ideas on creating curated game collections and the challenges posed by modern hardware tariffs. They emphasize the joy of resurrecting old games and the community-driven efforts to preserve gaming history.

“It's a sense of a direct connection to this one person working too hard on a laserdisc game.” (36:12)

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Listener Mail and Recommendations

Towards the episode's end, the hosts respond to listener emails, offering game recommendations and sharing personal favorites.

1. Great Video Game Soundtracks:
   Chris recommends Outer Wilds for its exceptional soundtrack blending orchestral, mysterious, and folk elements.

   “Outer Wilds has a blend of huge orchestra sounds, some mysterious and spacey tracks, and relaxing folk vibes.” (47:00)

2. Games with Level Creators:
   Justin suggests Codespark Academy for its integration of coding and game design, allowing extensive creativity without the burden of resource management.

   “Codespark Academy... lets you create elaborate levels and game systems without heavy resource gathering.” (48:06)

3. Movie Recommendation:
   Chris introduces the 1973 film Scarecrow starring Gene Hackman and Al Pacino, praising its road trip dynamics and character development.

   “It's a killer road trip buddy movie... really good to watch Al Pacino not doing Al Pacino.” (51:40)

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Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with the hosts teasing next week's content and reflecting on their podcast dynamics, notably missing Russ’s structured note-taking. They express enthusiasm for future discussions and encourage listeners to join them again for more insights and game reviews.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Justin McElroy (00:00):
  “I feel like it's weird when you have a two person podcast because that's just talking.”

• Chris Plant (05:03):
  “There is no competition. You can still one up me. We still got that juice.”

• Justin McElroy (17:37):
  “It keeps your hands busy and your mind... letting the rest of your brain take in the story.”

• Chris Plant (36:12):
  “It's a sense of a direct connection to this one person working too hard on a laserdisc game.”

• Justin McElroy (47:00):
  “Outer Wilds has a blend of huge orchestra sounds, some mysterious and spacey tracks, and relaxing folk vibes.”

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Conclusion

This episode of The Besties offers a comprehensive exploration of Promise Mascot Agency, intertwining gameplay analysis with thoughtful discussions on narrative impact and cultural metaphors. Additionally, the hosts share their passion for retro gaming and provide valuable game and movie recommendations, making it a must-listen for gaming enthusiasts seeking both entertainment and insightful commentary.

Transcript

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like it's weird when you have a two person podcast because that's just talking. You know, it's just a conversation between two people. Like because I pressed a button, now there's an artifice. Hmm. I don't know.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But you know, kind of nice in that we can actually talk with each other rather than compete. Or it's kind of those deathly stares that we give one another so they don't talk over each other week to week. I mean, Frushdick gives a withering, withering glance at you if he dares think that you'll talk over his Metroidvania conversations.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry, I was on my phone. I can be on my phone when there's three people because someone else will do it. And I'm realizing I can't even be on my phone. It's just you and me. You know what I mean? No one's gonna pick up my slack.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

See, I'm playing Promise Mascot Agency for the first time right now. I just loading it up.

[Justin McElroy]

That's, that's cool. I'm actually, I'm just watching Twitch streams of it at 4x speed just to watch. Just like all game journalists have done the whole time.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

There is no competition. You can still one up me. It's still here. We still got that juice. We still got that flow.

[Justin McElroy]

We're back. I just wish we had recorded it. Foreign My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the week. My name is Griffin McElroy and I know the best game of the week. My name is Josh Rushick and I know the best game of the week. My name is New York Giraffe and I know the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

Best game of the week. My name is President Donald J. Trump and I know the best game of the week. We can all do character work.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, that's good.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. This is the best.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wait, that was you?

[Justin McElroy]

It's a video game club. Just by listening, you've become a member. I am so excited to be here to talk with you about Promise Mascot Agency. A game that we're probably only allowed to talk about because Griffin and Russ aren't here. So what's Promise Mascot Agency?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Promise Mascot Agency is the new game from Kaizen gameworks that made one of our favorite games of like two years ago, Paradise Killer. We really enjoyed it. It had those sweet, sweet Sega Dreamcast style vibes. This time they are back and they are doing a Yakuza style open world game that is the most PS2 ass shit I have played since the PlayStation 2.

[Justin McElroy]

That is a great description. We're going to talk about that and so much more right after this.

[Josh Rushick]

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[Justin McElroy]

Plant this felt to me when we first started talking about it so much like a spiritual sequel, like the DNA of it. It reminds me of the specificity of Vibe that we saw with like ACE Team for a while where it's just like, oh, this game isn't related technically, but it's like you feel the studio, like you feel the sense of it and in a way like a studio voice. I feel like you can kind of start to feel in the second one like a rising, like a Platinum and it's in its best eras and Suda, things like that, where you feel like that sort of auteur kind of vibe.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, you can tell their core interests are video games from the like PS2, Dreamcast era. Specifically what it felt like kind of to import Japanese games at that time, where you're getting things that seemed kind of different and alien compared to like what you were playing in the US market. That now kind of seems normal and a little like a little dirty.

[Justin McElroy]

Just a little dirty, but kind of a comforting grime. You know, we're. Here's the story with this one. You got the janitor. He's a yakuza, former yakuza who messed up so bad. So bad. And he Lost billions of yen. He messed up so bad that his bosses are like, I think that rather than kill you, we're going to exile you to the worst job possible. Give you a chance to start to build back, earn back the money, build back the reputation, maybe get back in our good graces. And the gig we got for you is running a mascot business in a.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Town that has one curse on it. And that curse is yakuza slowly get killed by simply being there.

[Justin McElroy]

Right? Normal.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Normal.

[Justin McElroy]

So far you're like, okay, I've heard it before, right? But what's really interesting, I think with this one and the, the. The. The previous entry is this studio seems really interested in new mechanics. Like experimental mechanics that may not like. They don't even seem necessarily commissit. That is fun, but they're trying to make it fun. They're trying to find if there's fun in different. Different places. I feel like some more non traditional structures. So like in this one, for example, you are. The vast majority of your business is like just kind of overseeing the mascots. If you're. Wait, I kept waiting for a character action game to begin. That is not. That is not there.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, we kind of buried the lead that in this world, mascots are real. Yes. They are not people inside of costumes. If you see a giant severed thumb mascot, that mascot is a giant severed thumb. If you see, you know, if you saw Piggly Wiggly walking around, that would be the Piggly Wiggly.

[Justin McElroy]

If you saw Gritty, you would cross the street.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, you. That's kind of everybody in here. This is a city full of gritties is the other part.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's Gritty City. It's the Gritty City Committee. And you take over the Gritty City Committee. No, there are small business owners that need mascots for their events and they want to. And your mascot agency, because of the psychopathic severed pinky that was running the business before, has a bad reputation. So you have to start earning it back with local business owners to convince them that you're worth their time. And the way you do that is you recruit mascots and you send them out on jobs. And there are jobs that want a certain kind of mascot, like a certain vibe. You can also send them with items that can make the job go better. And as you're driving around doing your business in your truck, because you don't get out, you're just in a truck. As you're driving down to your business in your truck, the mascots sometimes need help. And you can go play a card game to help them. Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, so let's talk about what you do in the game, because you're right. On one hand, they are trying something really new ish with the managing the actual mascots. And the way that that works is you go into a menu and you have to decide how you hire a mascot and how much money are you going to pay them, what percentage are they going to get, what's their bonus period structure, what's their time off. And you adjust that as the game continues. And depending on how you've adjusted that, you either accrue lots of money or a little money, you keep them happy or unhappy, you send them out on jobs, and then when jobs go wrong, you have to like, step in and play a card game. But to call this a card game is. I don't know even what I would describe this as, because there's not much game to it. The game is.

[Justin McElroy]

No, yeah, it feels. It kind of reminds me of like cooperative board games where it's like you're just sort of going through the motion. It's not like about your skill. It's more like what you have available. It's a little bit pass fail. There's not a lot of depth to it. It's either going to work or it's not. At least it seems like, yes, like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

A mission would be that a cash register is broken and the mascot wants to fix it. So your enemy for that round is the cash register. And that manifests like a fighting game health bar. The cash register shows up, the mascot itself deals a little damage to it, and then you look down at your cards and you have a. A set of cards that have little icons that can be used to deal more damage to the cash register. And I think there is a game here that maybe is complicated because there's like all different types of cards. There's buffs, there's ways to get more cards or get fewer cards. There's all these things. But every time I've played it, the answer has been look for the card that has the highest number. Play it, play it, finish the health bar, move on. So.

[Justin McElroy]

So this is what. This is what I think is interesting plant is I in playing this game and. And that feeling of like, waiting for the game to like the game to start, where I kind of got what I think may they may be kind of going for here is something that looks like. Like looks less cozy than it is, but is actually just kind of like a cozy game. Like, it's none of it's hard and most of it's nice, you know, like the characters you meet. Like, there's one guy you meet early on that just wants to be in porn and he wants to be in the porn industry and he cares about the fidelity of the adult entertainment and he cares about AV a lot. And it's great and it's so funny and it's like. But it's. But you're.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

None of it is in the hard stuff too. You know, that's what's sweet about it is he doesn't want pixel anymore.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, no pixel. Actually, I think he says almost no pixelation, which is worse in a way, because if you want a little bit, that's troubling. But like when you get, for example, the way you get cards is you ask people if they will be a mascot support hero and then they say, yeah, almost. I mean, sometimes you gotta do something for them, but sometimes it's like, hey, yeah, that sounds cool. Yeah, you can call me to help. And that's it. And it's not really like a challenge. It's just sort of constantly sort of giving you things and like making it to be a fairly pleasant even experience, at least as far as I could tell.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's a chore game. It's a game of chores. And I guess my question for you is like, what makes a chore game enjoyable for you? Good or bad's not the best words, but I, after about two hours, really clicked in with it. And just going around and doing chores.

[Justin McElroy]

It'S a tough beginning, man. I picked this guy up and set him down a lot because it's tough.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

At the beginning, it's slow, but then when you get into it, it becomes a series of basically fetch quest. The entire game. The open world part of the game, you effectively play as a truck.

[Justin McElroy]

You never get out of an indestructible truck.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

An indestructible truck that's better and faster.

[Justin McElroy]

Than a truck ship.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. Has rocket boost. And you go, can't go in the.

[Justin McElroy]

Water or a bit.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. You go from place to place doing basically the same thing over and over again. You see little dots on the map. You pick up those items. Those are your fetch quest items. You go to various characters across this pretty large open world. You deliver the things they tell you, new things that they need. Some of them become cards in your your game. Like you said over and over and over. There's not like, when you meet a new character, it's not going to surprise you what will happen. You'll say hello. They'll tell you a little bit of their backstory. They will offer to be a card. They will offer to sell you some new items. They will give you a new Fetch Quest series. This sounds so boring. And yet I definitely locked in after about two hours where I was like, great. I am just zipping around this world. The music is good. It looks cool.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks good. They got some really funky filters on it that you can choose to put on. It just looks cool and the writing is good and funny. I will say this if you liked Infinite wealth, but it was a little too gamey for you. Yeah, this. This has like a similar vibe with less like mechanical. It's probably closer to Wander Stop honestly than a lot of other stuff. It's a little bit more like it's management. It's not really that hard. It's more about. To answer your question about a chore game for me, if you're. I was thinking a lot about what makes a good video game story because a lot of times you see stories adapted from other media into video games. But there seems to be something that makes a good video game story. And I think part of the ineffable quality that video games can do with storytelling that other media can't is the story of a area and how that area changes. Right. So if you think of like the lead as like a region or like an area or this town and it's really the story of that, then what video games can do really well is seeing those characters evolve, seeing the location start to change, seeing like the. The impact of what you're doing on the world and that as like a way of telling a story that like video, that movies and TV and stuff can't do as well because it has to be so character driven. And this can be a story about like a lot of people in concert without a necessarily like a main character who's. Who's story is driving it. It's more like it feels like the story of a community of a bunch of people and how they're changing over. Over time.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That is really helpful and also helps me see it as if you took any popular farming game and said that. What everything that you just said about the farm, where you're doing the chores on the farm and you're watching it grow and it went from having all these weeds to being like a nice place that you're proud of and you run all the fetch quests for the locals, flush that out to be an entire city. And that feels like this game. In fact, that makes me like the game more because the chores are actually, while mundane, enjoyable versus watering plants, which is my least favorite thing to do in any video game ever. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. I just. I don't know. I saw this. I'm gonna share this really quick. Actually, I was flipping through the Steam page and the top review right now has 19 hours and it's from. I'll not share the user's name out of privacy. Respect.

[Justin McElroy]

Nox. Dox him, dude. Get him. Get him.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But this review is like kind of heartbreaking, but also gets at why I love these games. 19 hours in the perfect distraction in your most vulnerable emotional state. I had to put my dog down of 11 years yesterday and I got home with tears on my face and continued my playthrough of Promise Mascot Agency. The gameplay is simple, but that's what I needed. I played for eight hours straight. There was no downtime to think it was simply see symbol on map and go to symbol on map. That's it. It is not complicated. There's a theme of running your agency and sending your mascots out for tasks, but it's still a simple mechanic. It doesn't require you to think. It is a silly and weird place with moments that make you chuckle at the nonsense of it all. But that's what I needed in that moment. And like that gets it. Something that I think is happening when I play these sorts of games. Obviously I am not having as intense of a day as that person was, and I feel terrible for them. But every day is horrid.

[Justin McElroy]

Sure. And.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And I think that's a more beautiful way of describing escapism than just like, oh, I did this and I got lost and the world ceased to exist. It's like, no, I gained purpose.

[Justin McElroy]

There's something too. And I'm not smart enough to voice this though, but there is something to something that simply keeps your hands busy and your mind, the monkey mind busy to kind of let the rest of your brain take in something to take in a story, to take in a world. I think there's a lot of games that keep the monkey mind very busy, but then when you look for something deeper beyond that experience, there's nothing there. Right. And I think what we're talking about here is a game that keeps that mind busy, that keeps that mind with little tasks, but is feeding you. That is like giving you characters, it's giving you story, it's giving you a world that's pleasant to be in. It's giving you these Other. And it's allowing you to be in this world with, like, just the faintest bit of mechanical justification. But it's enough to keep that part of your brain busy, to kind of let you, like, relax into the rest of it. And I think that if, like, if that's what it takes to get you to relax into a story, especially when you're going a mile a minute in your head, I think that that's. I think that that's really laudable.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, I dig it. I. I'm definitely gonna keep playing it. I think I'm probably about, like, halfway through again, it is almost. You have to turn off the critic part of your brain because all the things that we traditionally value in games are, I think, really refined. Mechanics, variety of new things to do, certain novelty and gameplay. And that's just not what I think this game is going after at all intentionally so.

[Justin McElroy]

I. I will also say one other note, and this is not. I was debating whether or not to. To mention this, but I think it's worth. I think part of the reason that I was having trouble at first, and I think that this is probably a cultural difference, but I feel like you have seen a cultural shift in the US and some other Western cultures to a less sort of boss, employee, contractor, manager, and more like employee owned kind of a culture being more in vogue here. I guess what I'm saying is, like, this is not a game about prostitution, but it is why, like, it feels in conversation with, like, sex work, right? Like, it feels in. Or at least to me it feels like the metaphor of a pimp and his, like, the people that work for him is a. It is it. That was very hard for me to escape here in the US Because I feel like it is a management structure that we are that is very, like, tied to that for me. And I feel like it feels a little bit weird to be bossing around these other, like, sentient beings. And it doesn't feel. It helps. It didn't help me to feel, like, cozy at first because at first I felt kind of like. Like I'm profiting off of other people's work. And it doesn't feel great.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. I'll break that kind of in two parts. I agree with both. The management sim of it all is weird in how direct and crass it is.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

About what, like, business is where you are literally saying, you know what, you get 12% of whatever your return on investment is for what we put in, or you get 15% and after you do this much, that's when you get your bonuses, and these are the incentives that we're giving you. And when you see the numbers, it does not look fair for the mascots, basically.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. It feels like you're paying them, like, 25% of what they're earning, and it's like, ugh, gross.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But at the same time, the game is making it clear where all that other money is going, because it's like, well, they're getting 25%. But then, like, there's bills over here, and, you know this person and yada, yada, yada, and. And it just puts you in the. The yuck of, like.

[Justin McElroy]

I think it's harder to get excited about building a business in America. I think that it is like, we. There is more of a respect, I think, in this culture for, like, the value of building a business and the value of, like, the. There is value in. In building that over time, and I feel like that's less of the culture stateside, currently. Yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And then. Then the. The sex work part of it, which kind of, like, coexist. That is. It feels like just the metaphor of the game. Right, right.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, it's.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's so. You. You're.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm not. Like, we haven't mentioned it, and I don't want people to think, like, I'm. I'm, like, reading between the lines. Like, I'm not looking for this, guys.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm glad you brought it up, because it's somewhere between, like, it's. That. It's also a murky space in its own where it's like, are these mascots hosts? Are they escorts? Are they sex? Like, what. What. What is the kind of stand in here?

[Justin McElroy]

Because I think we can pretty definitively say they're not having sex with the mascots. I feel like that. That. That. That was not even. Wow. You just gave me the weirdest look.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sorry. I mean. I mean. I mean, as a metaphor, though.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah, okay. I get you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Don't put that past people. Like, people are having sex with mascots in this universe. We know that for a fact.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, right. That's a great point, Plant. Yes. So, like, whether or not that is part of the package.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. But the fact that you are a yakuza who is going around, like, kind of toughing situations where it's like, you only show up when a situation goes bad, and then you have to, you know, kind of like, in for. Put in some reinforcements to make sure everything's okay and that your mascot's taken care of. It's. It's Weird. It's not. None of this is bad. It's just it.

[Justin McElroy]

It.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's some weird flavors that I didn't expect when I.

[Justin McElroy]

There is a cultural thing that I'm just not. Like. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, there's obviously, like, more culture. I don't know how things are supposed to hit. It's like that thing in, like. In like, a Dragon games where you don't necessarily know if something's like, is it funny because it's a joke or is it funny because I'm not. I'm dumb and I don't know about this part of the culture. Right. Like, I do feel like the. Like a Dragon. The fact that that series exists in the continuity it has and the direction it has, it does make me wish that they had gone, like, not done the Yakuza angle with this, because I feel like it was really hard to avoid those comparisons in your head. Unless you feel like it's like, no, more direct. You feel like it's more intentional. Like it's.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you know who the lead voice actor is?

[Justin McElroy]

No.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Kazuma Kiryu. It's the same voice actor who does it. The actor's name is. I have this. Takaya Kuroda and plays Kazuma Kiryu.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, so is it a satire? Are we in conversation with it? What's happening here?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And it goes, like, in other directions too. Like, Sweri, who is the developer who made a number of games that I think this one is kind of like riffing on. Swery made Deadly Premonition, which this game aesthetically is borrowing a lot from, is a voice actor. Shuhei Yoshida, who is the. Who oversaw indies for PlayStation, is a voice actor.

[Justin McElroy]

Can I say I'm really glad you brought up Deadly Premonition, because that is a game that I've always wanted to love.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

But can't because the mechanics get in the way. This feels like this is a. This is. For me, this is what I wish Deadly Premonition was. Because I want to experience everything in Deadly Premonition without playing Deadly Premonition. You know what I'm saying?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yep.

[Justin McElroy]

Like, so that. That made me very happy knowing that around every corner, there's just going to be the strangest God. Like Captain Sign, the guy who is a superhero who's just obsessed. Obsessed with road signage. And he's like. And it's like, are you gonna help me or, like, fight? It's like, no. He runs a shop on top of a pier on a Mountain.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yep.

[Justin McElroy]

Always. He's always up there. There's no real reason. Also, it is hysterical to me that I kept waiting for this guy to fight somebody. You talk about Avid the heavy, and this guy shows up and it's like, oh, man, it's the janitor. But there is not a, like a. Unless I visit. There's not a fighting mechanic in this game. This guy doesn't actually beat anybody up. He just happens to also be a guy who knows how to beat people.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I do like that. You meet Captain Sign and Captain Sign's like, Captain Sign looks like Pepsiman. And you're talking to Captain Sign and he's like, hey, so I gotta teach you how this hero system works. You're gonna meet heroes everywhere and they're gonna become cards in this little card game for you. And they're gonna help protect your mascots. And you're like, great, great, great. And he's like, yeah, one other thing. None of them are actually heroes. I'm the only one. Even though I am the first one you're meeting. You will not meet anybody else who looks like me. You're like, sorry, what? And he's like, yeah, you're gonna meet like a cat, a woman.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, they don't look like superheroes, I'm sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Maybe you're like, oh, okay, sure.

[Justin McElroy]

There's conversations, there's a shot. There's a guy. One of the first business owners you meet is a guy who's also on the phone with his wife every time he's talking to you and you're like, hey, do you want to be a mascot support hero? And he's like, absolutely not. He's on the phone like, yeah, these guys want me to be a mascot support hero. And he's like, covers the phone. He's like, do you really think that I could be a mascot support hero? They're like, yeah, we do, actually. He's like, okay, don't tell my wife. But like, if you need me to, like, come help. For example, one thing I had him help with was my tofu mascot got stuck in a door that was too small and it had to free itself from, quote, the tyranny of normal sized doors. This game's a. Is a rot. You know, I think you know pretty well if you're gonna like this game or not. Yeah, you should, you should. You should probably check it out. It's a good one. Yeah, it's a good one. Hey, there's someone's heart is on display here.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you want to. You want to take a break and we can come back and we can talk about emulation because nobody's here to stop us.

[Justin McElroy]

I would love that. Would love that. Let's go. We are so proud to be sponsored by the UNC Kenan Flagler Business School. If you're a gamer, you like video games, and if you're listening to this podcast and you don't like video games, then I think that's kind of. Well, you know what? I'm not going to judge you because every listen counts. So hey, but if you are the sort of person who spends hours pouring over your inventory and your stats, maybe you've got a little analytical mind on your hands or in your head as the case may be. There's no better place to shape that than at UNC Kenan Flagler. They got a top ranked online Master of Accounting degree. You can switch up industries and set yourself up for a lifelong career. Pick the program that's got a proven ROI, that's return on investment and a 98% job placement rate. Think about it. You could be a Tar Heel in less than one year. Learn more at Accounting UNC Edu.

[Griffin McElroy]

Money stuff sucks right now, and you probably don't need me to tell you that, but you might need me to tell you that Rocket Money is an app that can help you manage your finances and save a bunch of money that you're currently wasting on subscriptions that you have forgotten about. I am sure it is an experience that most people who play games can relate to of paying for a subscription for some MMO or some streaming service that you use a couple times and then you forget about it and then it continues eating all your money like a big alligator. Well, Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It also monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the apps Premium features. I've used Rocket Money more times than I can count and have caught so many subscriptions in the dragnet, mostly to kids apps that make you pay for on a monthly basis. For some reason that my kids got bored with instantly and I forgot to cancel. So it has saved me quite a bit of money and I bet it'll do the same for you. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with rocketmill. Go to rocketmoney.combesties today. That's rocketmoney.combesties rocketmoney.combesties.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, we're back. And we don't have the police here. We don't have rust rushing. You can't talk about it. We're gonna talk about emulation. It's, you know, no holds barred, you know. But I was thinking, like, emulation is a big topic. What if we just talked about, like, laser discs? And then that still feels like pretty big.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Would there be like, a way to narrow it?

[Justin McElroy]

Narrow it down? So it's just like the laserdisc games that I have on this tiny cabinet behind me.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've been doing this week is trying to make laserdisc games work because I want to have a laserdisc game arcade, right? Sure. I made a little.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Little.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm using this PI Cade. It's run off a Raspberry P. And I wanted it to run laserdisc games because I really like laserdisc games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

People can't see it. So I will describe it. Can you hold it up for me? It's one of those desktop arcades. So about maybe like foot and a half by a foot and a half has a beautiful joystick on it. And the arcade cabinet has been designed to look like a tiny recreation of the Dragon's lair.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I printed this out. I printed the marquee art out. The rest of it is the stuff that it came with. What's great is when you boot a laserdisc ROM up for the first time, the rom, the machine actually has to, like, watch the whole laserdisc video. So the first time you boot something up, I mean, look at this. This is the game. Interstellar is the name of this one. But the first time you boot it up, you watch the playthrough at like super speed because the DVD has to like, watch the entire thing. And then what you see here in a lot of these laserdisc games plant is the video background with a emulated thing like. So this is the only computer part. The rest of it is just laserdisc movie right in front of the background, right? Sure, sure. So, yeah, that's what I've been doing.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I think I had in my head laserdisc games being like Dragon's Lair, where it was just like a DVD and you're hitting the skip chapter button.

[Justin McElroy]

And that is. So that's the two different kinds of laserdisc games. You'll see is is Dragon's Lair, where it's an interactive movie sure. And then. Okay, I'll show you one more.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, thank you.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm gonna show you. I know this is an audio podcast, but.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, I'm happy to be the tour guide.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, we, you know, what else are we doing here?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Nobody's gonna stop us.

[Justin McElroy]

Nobody can stop us.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I am getting text messages. Frustrate. Can feel this.

[Justin McElroy]

He can sense it happening.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It is irate.

[Justin McElroy]

He is saying he's furious with us right now.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, so which one is.

[Justin McElroy]

So I'm gonna try to tilt. It's hard to see the screen, but.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm so glad that the thinnest amount of audio is coming through here. This is great. Oh, and thank you for turning the lights on.

[Justin McElroy]

Now this should be easier for you to see.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Didn't help at all.

[Justin McElroy]

Let me insert a coin. It didn't help at all.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Right here. I can't believe it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What game is this?

[Justin McElroy]

This is Moto gp. Right. So you're. The road is the video. And the video doesn't play unless you're holding in the gas button. So by. By gassing, I'm make. I'm advancing this, this, this laserdisc of the road. Right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wow.

[Justin McElroy]

But I. Yeah. So the rest of the. The game is just kind of projected on top of the video.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How do you steer in. In a laserdisc video game where the camera's locked in, the car is the.

[Justin McElroy]

Only thing that moves. So you're on tracks. Right. So you're just moving back and forth and the only thing you're interacting with is the other cars, which are also digital. Right. So it's basically just like a big background.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Those other cars are always in the same spot because I can't even.

[Justin McElroy]

The other cars are digital too. So other cars are being generated. Obviously you're racing.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The second I said it, I knew I was wrong.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. You have to have other people to race around. I'll tell you what has changed about emulation lately because I want to hear about where you're at. Because I'm always. I've always gotten into it a little bit and then I'll get something working and then I'm. It's kind of like. Cool. What has changed lately is there is a much better front end experience on a lot of these games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

That makes them so much more console. Like. Like a lot of this has been pulled together. Most of it uses front end like emulation that's based on emulation station or something like it. That's like pulling all these emulators and all of it into one Big thing that's just like, you can flip through all your games and flip through all your stuff, and you have, like, some simulation, a recreation of, like, a home console arcade. Like, that level of seamlessness is a lot more attainable than it was even, like, a few. Five, six, seven years ago.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How. How do you commit to playing anything when you have a trillion choices?

[Justin McElroy]

I don't.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, you have that dilemma.

[Justin McElroy]

I play the game that I have to play for besties. And, like, to me, I used to do that calculation a lot for myself. Was like, you know, I'm gonna put all the work into getting this running, and then I don't play anything on it. And then that would, like, sometimes stop me from doing it. But the thing is, like, I learn a lot just getting it going. Right. Like, I understand these games a lot better because I, like, went through the process of making them work in a different way.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And so that process, I think, gives me, like, a better appreciation for it and, like, I find it pleasurable to do. I do play the game sometimes. And sometimes I, like, find something like Super Don Quixote I've never heard of before, and I'll fire up Super Don Quixote and play through that. But, like, it's more about the. There is something also plant that is when I watch a game where I feel like I'm the only person that has looked at it in, like, 10 years.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like. It feels so bizarre. It's this sense of, like, a direct connection to, like, this one person working too hard on a laserdisc game and be like, yeah, I'm appreciating it. Thank you for your work, person. 40 years in the past.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I love that when you can find a collection of Japanese ROMs somewhere, and it's like, here's just 40 Japanese ROMs from a console or handheld that you didn't even know existed before today. And then you pop that in and you look at something and immediately, again, good or bad, it doesn't really matter. It's just unlike anything that you can even imagine until. Until you're playing it and it feels like, oh, there was an entire history that happened, and I thought I was fully caught up. And turns out there's always more to learn. I do wish, like, I wish this. It's a library dilemma, right? Where you go into the library and you can. There's everything there. But what works about an actual physical library is once you pick what you want, you leave the library and you take it home. Right. And then you have just that option. You have four books that you brought home. You don't have every book in the library. And I wish there was an option almost at a UI level in my retroid pocket where I said at the beginning of the month, these are the four month games that I want to play this month. Take away everything else from me.

[Justin McElroy]

You want restriction, I want a game dad to say, this isn't worth your time, son.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. And just like you picked it, great.

[Justin McElroy]

Choice here, I'll tell you what has been scratching that itch for me lately. And this again, this isn't going to be for everybody. I understand that. But if you get yourself a tiny computer like a Raspberry PI 4, 5, whatever, and you get yourself a mini SD card for, you know, whatever size, there's a lot of sites now that are. A lot of people in communities are like curating images that are specific to a size, right? So like if you have a 64 gigabyte SD card, here's like a themed collection I built around that. And here's what I'm kind of like. Here's like the connective tissue or like you'll get one who's like, this is my. It's like a Doom collection. Like it's like everything Doom is on this one. And it's like a Doom themed thing. Or it's like Japanese arcade classics. Or like you get a. Sometimes there'll be an image that's like manufacturer centric. So it's like Capcom Classics. If you have an 128 gigabyte memory card, you flash it to this, you pop it in and that is a collection. What's cool about that is it's not a lot of the times it's not just like the games that this person has selected, but like you see the way they have the UI set up, it's like a custom experience that they've set up, the menu art and all that stuff. So like, yes. And the controllers are all set, it's all ready to go. All the ROMs work, they've done all that annoying stuff and then you can experience it as like a collection that someone has made. Is a really fun way of doing it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love that. I love the Criterion Channel, the streaming service. Their solution for this is each month to have little micro collections of things. So it's like 70s horror or movies that were inspired by Godzilla but from across the world. Right. And the thing I love about that is one, it limits the options. But two, when you start to watch that, say you're Watching Kaiju movies from across the world. They're all in conversation with each other. So once you've watched three or four of these things, your brain starts filling in the gaps between them of like, oh, that's why they did it that way in the uk and oh, I can now see how that inspired all these other things in Britain and that I don't know for me, I like when the entertainment clicks for me. But then it also has my brain kind of revved up for the non viewing time.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's also really cool. I've had already a few times since I got the full library. I've done other sort of projects like this. But once I got a place where I could play most stuff pretty quickly I found a few opportunities where like I'll hear something mentioned and it's so easy. I mean a matter of seconds before I'm like checking it out. And I think what's cool about video games is I think you really can get a sense of what a game is like in two minutes. You know, like you can't say that out of book really. And you can't say that like maybe some songs you're like, oh yeah, I've listened to one. But like you can get a vibe of like what the thing is pretty quickly. And I do think once you've lowered those barriers so much that you'll get a whim of like, I wonder what that's about. And that you could be kind of exploring that pretty quickly. I have found that to be a nice thing to have.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That is a great idea and also makes me think I need to get my Mr. Refigured out. It got a little borked after falling off of my table.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But that feeling of being able to just pop it on and play anything whenever I want is pretty, pretty sick.

[Justin McElroy]

Next thing I'm gonna do, I'm gonna get a couple. I got, I found an arcade one up cabinet on clearance. I'm gonna rip guts out. I'm put a couple of light guns on the side. I'm gonna try to make a light gun cabinet.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you give these as gifts?

[Justin McElroy]

Hmm.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you give like, do you like make handhelds and be like this is just a good gift?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I make like a little. After you make the project, you know, I don't usually need it. Like I made like a little mini. I found a Raspberry PI case that's like look like a SNES that I printed. And so like I made like a little tiny SNES with like a Raspberry PI in it that has like the entire library and it's like this big. And I gave it to my, my cousin so he could like plugs it into the tv, plugs into that, plugs in a USB joystick. It's like the entire library there. And so I do that as GIFs. That's a fun way of like make it especially with like kids. Like you can get them to mess around. A lot of these emulation programs also have like a kid mode now where you can play all the games but you're not going to get in and like mess around with settings. It's just like turns it into a dumb kiosk that only just plays games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Ooh, I need to figure that out. I would love to have that for Mosi. I having that plus an all in one solution like what you showed me with the arcade where it's like, hey, you don't need to get onto the tv. You can just play some games here and enjoy it. That seems really awesome.

[Justin McElroy]

Our friends have a. Their son DEZ comes over and he'll just search for like, he's a big sports guy, but he'll just search like NHL and then get onto like the Genesis and play like an old. Like he'll play an entire, like an entire game of NHL or like old Maddens and stuff like it. He'll. Or he'll search Spider man and just see like all the Spider man games that have been. That have been in between.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

A bunch of bad games.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, a bunch of bad games with some very, very, very good ones. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

One question for you before we wrap up. What do you think will happen to this industry with all the tariffs? Because so much of the hardware side of things is coming from China. I don't know.

[Justin McElroy]

I think that. So obviously any manufacturer, anybody like you're buying stuff, you. You are seeing messages about, you know, tariffs or how it has or hasn't affected pricing. So it's definitely something a lot of people are thinking about. I saw at least one company that makes a. It's called Retrotink. They make like an upscaling converter or whatever that they are going to stop taking us orders until this is like figured out. I guess they have some stock here or what have you, but so it is having an effect. I will say this for me, it has actually been as a hobby, it has been much better for me finding stuff that I already have lying around and seeing if I can find something new to do with it. And I feel like if you can understand electronics in that way, we are disincentivized from understanding them at that level. In fact, we're told really by a lot of the Microsofts and Apples of the world that it's too complex for you and you can't figure it out. And I know what, I'm sounding like one of those Linux people right now.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And if you try, it will break all your contracts, etc.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes, and you've broken it and you broke the seal and you got in here and. But like, I'm not a smart person if I can figure it out. Like, it's really not that hard, especially when you have a computer that's based in Linux where you can understand it a lot easier because it's not full of a bunch of crap that people want to sell you. So that is all a long way of saying, I feel like if you invest a little bit of time in understanding like basic computing and how, how some of this stuff works, I feel like it's a way of breathing new life into stuff. You know, like your, your laptop may not be great as a, you know, to play the latest and greatest AAA video games, but maybe you flash it to make it like it just plays all these consoles or just plays this or it's just doing something else, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's just my Minecraft terminal, whatever. Like if once you understand this stuff a little bit, you could get more use out of things, I think, and not have to buy so much stuff.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you think that you're kind of like reverse Superman and that you have your glasses on right now and it's all Linux, but when you take those.

[Justin McElroy]

Things off, Chris, this isn't for them. Okay? My visual appearance is not up for discussion. And as you know, these are my gamers only blue blocks.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sorry, that was so rude of me.

[Justin McElroy]

We got any mail from people?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We do. I'm gonna hop into that, but very quickly. Just worth reminding everybody that every game we spoke about, we own. We own physical copies of them and we love all of them.

[Justin McElroy]

Also, if you really like the best, sanest voice in this entire space that I have found is good. Russ over Retro Game Core. Like if you, when he puts out a new video, if I'm not even planning on like getting the thing, I just still watch that soothing guy talk about whatever. I don't care.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

He's a great voice.

[Justin McElroy]

It's a great voice.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Great voice. A few pieces of reader mail first up from lb. I love that Justin accidentally made a called shot with his Bloodborne 2 joke from a couple episodes ago.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it did occur to me. It did occur to me.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

From Taylor Heard the question, well this is now a couple weeks ago about great video game soundtracks and had to make an account on here just to recommend I highly recommend Outer Wilds as one of the best modern soundtracks for doing work or just chilling out. It has a blend of huge orchestra sounds, some mysterious and spacey tracks, and relaxing folk vibes. That soundtrack is so damn good. And it's on vinyl now, which if you're like one of those people who likes that I'm realizing I'm becoming more of a parody of myself every time I record the show.

[Justin McElroy]

That's okay though, you're just becoming more yourself.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's so true. It's so true. And this last one is from Caleb Question My kid loves video games with level creators and house building. She has built tons of houses for Link in Tears of the Kingdom. She spends hours crafting levels in Fall Guys, Mario Maker and Minecraft. Any recommendations for games that have level creators or a freeform construction element? I'm especially interested in games that don't require resource gathering. I have one that is a bit more like school, but I'm going to recommend it anyway.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Codespark Academy Are you familiar with this?

[Justin McElroy]

No, I don't think so.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It is kind of like a level creator but with coding and game design built into it. So it does not look nearly as nice as anything is what Nintendo is making. But it gives you a lot more tools on the actual like design level of a game where you can make these elaborate levels and then you can kind of create the game systems within the levels too. And there are 2D levels but there are also like 3D options. There's even storytelling options which you probably remember this back in the Windows 95 day where you could like make an episode of the Simpsons or a Nicktoon using like the worst 3D imaginable. It would take hours to render but you could kind of create like record your audio. It does that sort of stuff too. So if you're more of a storyteller it lets you create those sorts of things. If you're a game designer it lets you do that. If you just want to make like Mario platform levels you can do that. Has a whole bunch of user made stuff and it is on iOS for sure on browser and I think it's on Android too and it's codespark Academy. Do you have anything?

[Justin McElroy]

Nothing that springs to mind.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The resource Management's the trick here. There's just so much of that. If you.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean like I'm assuming LittleBigPlanet and Mario Maker, stuff like that doesn't scratch this particular itch.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, they said Mario Maker, so Little Big Planet would be a good option. If you are okay using Roblox. There is a Sonic Maker game in there that is incredible. It is, I don't think in any way endorsed by Sega, but it lets you make Sonic levels in the exact same way that you can make Mario Maker levels. So that's another option. But then you got a.

[Justin McElroy]

They got a Sonic World in Minecraft. I've been thinking about downloading. Just really go peak.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's the good stuff. Anything else from you before we wrap up?

[Justin McElroy]

See honorable mentions. I feel like I talked about my honorable mentions. Finished. Severance. Everybody talked about Severance. If you haven't seen Severance, you should watch Severance. I saw a Minecraft movie in the theater. I cried at the end. So I'm probably not in a good place. So that's why I review a Minecraft movie.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's good. That's really good. Are you reading anything?

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. I recommended the Lies of Locke Lamora a few weeks back by Scott lynch and I am on the second book in that series, Red Seas Under Red Skies. It's called the Gentleman Bastards series and there's three of them I believe. It's a fantasy world that has 12 gods, except there's a hidden 13th God that is a God of thievery and thieves and there is a group of thieves that serve this God. The way they serve this God is by stealing and ripping people off. And it's very fun, light hearted, sort of roguish fantasy if you like that kind of thing. And heisty very like Ocean's Eleven Clockwork. Seeing it, how it all the big plans, how they all like the machinations all come together. Really well written, really funny, very much enjoying it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But yeah, I said nice. My recommendation is Scarecrow from 1973. Have you ever heard of this movie?

[Justin McElroy]

Who's in it? Tell me who's in it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I should count Gene Hackman and Al Pacino.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I had not heard of this movie at all and then went and saw it this week and there's just a killer road trip buddy movie starring Gene Hackman and Al Pacino that just feels lost to time and it's really good.

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like movies like this that don't have iconic moments that get circulated in Oster montages eventually like if you didn't have a big show stopping scene, I feel, I worry we lose some of these.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And it like, would we have lost Dog Day Afternoon if it didn't have him screaming Attica at that one point? Would people still be talking about. You know what I mean? Like, it feels like without that we lose some of these, these movies.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's true. Yeah. I, people should check it out. I think it's streaming. I saw it in a theater. But it was really nice and really cool to watch Al Pacino not doing Al Pacino. You know that period before an actor becomes themselves. Yeah, he's just like this lovable, silly dude here. He's very sprightly, which is not how I normally describe Al Pacino.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you know a good, you know, one movie? I, I, I think he shakes that off as insomnia.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Justin McElroy]

Right. Or he's like making it work for him enough that he's like wearing it like a suit. That seems to be making him tired also. Like he's tired of being Al Pacino. You know what I mean? Anyway, what do we do next week?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What do is is next week? Are we doing Claire obscure?

[Justin McElroy]

Is that one thing I'll say about Russ and I. Listen, I hope he doesn't hear this, but he does write down the things that we're supposed to talk. Like he does do some of that stuff. So I do miss that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, I have, I have it all in a Google Doc.

[Justin McElroy]

I just don't know what it is. You didn't share it with me, so I don't know any of this. Russ always shares it with me.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know, generous host that I knew that. I can just walk you right through it. I had almost landed the plane, the wheels were down, and then at the last minute you just threw usually chain.

[Justin McElroy]

We usually change midweek anyway. So I don't even know why we do this part of the show anymore. But we'll maybe talk about cla obscura. I don't know what that is, so I hope it's good then. Be sure. Join us again next week for the besties because she of the world's best friends pick the world's best games.