Split Fiction is everything fans want (and more of what critics fear)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Besties" Episode - "Split Fiction is everything fans want (and more of what critics fear)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Besties
• Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick
• Episode Title: Split Fiction is everything fans want (and more of what critics fear)
• Release Date: March 7, 2025
• Description: Four of Earth's best friends — Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Chris Plante, and Russ Frushtick — rank and review their favorite video games, blending humor and insightful commentary.

---

1. Introduction and Audience Concerns (00:00 – 02:35)

The episode kicks off with Justin McElroy expressing worries about alienating the Besties' audience due to his increasingly niche interests:

Justin McElroy [00:00]: "I'm worried that what I'm doing at this point, the way I'm filling my free time, I am worried that I will have lost the besties audience with. It's too much."

Russ Frushtick probes into Justin's concerns, questioning whether his pursuits have become too intellectual or niche:

Russ Frushtick [00:13]: "Do you think it's too smart? Do you think you're too smart now?"

Justin clarifies that it's not about intelligence but the niche nature of his hobbies, likening it to crafting "decorative artisanal piccolos" that serve no practical purpose. Christopher Thomas Glanz humorously points out an unexpected audience segment:

Christopher Thomas Glanz [01:09]: "I saw the comments on the newsletter... maybe there's a rhythm in your voice that has been training our audience... to care deeply about your bullshit."

Justin decides to continue engaging his niche audience by intermittently introducing niche topics into the podcast, ensuring broader appeal.

---

2. Introduction to "Split Fiction" (03:09 – 07:14)

Justin McElroy introduces the focal game of the episode, "Split Fiction," positioning it as a cooperative (co-op) successor to "It Takes Two." He describes it as a part of a pseudo-series from the same developer, emphasizing its co-op mechanics:

Justin McElroy [03:17]: "It's a video game club and you're a member because you started listening and that's kind of a trap we lay for you every week. This week we're going to be talking about Split Fiction..."

Christopher Thomas Glanz elaborates on the game’s premise, comparing it to "Tron" and highlighting its unique co-op experience where players embody characters with differing interests—fantasy and sci-fi enthusiasts trapped in their imaginative worlds battling evil AI:

Christopher Thomas Glanz [03:48]: "Split Fiction is a co-op focused game that is a follow up to It Takes Two... experience your stories in a virtual environment and fend off evil AI."

The hosts discuss the mechanics of online split-screen gameplay, noting the seamless blending of individual experiences and the challenges it presents.

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3. Narrative and Writing Critique (07:14 – 17:20)

The conversation shifts to a critical analysis of "Split Fiction’s" narrative. Justin McElroy voices strong dissatisfaction with the game's dialogue and character development, deeming it clichéd and unrelatable:

Justin McElroy [07:28]: "I think this game is so poorly written, none of the dialogue feels like anything human beings say... It's built entirely of cliches..."

Russ Frushtick draws parallels with Quantic Dream's approach to narrative, suggesting a similarity in their storytelling challenges:

Russ Frushtick [12:09]: "The analogy I would say is if you've played like Quantic Dreams stuff... it's a very similar issue."

Christopher Thomas Glanz critiques the lack of a compelling antagonist and the disjointed connection between individual storylines and the overarching plot, highlighting the absence of stakes and motivation:

Christopher Thomas Glanz [13:16]: "There is no real antagonist once you are in the game for the first few hours..."

The hosts lament missed opportunities in the game's storytelling, such as integrating deeper thematic elements or more original narrative approaches.

---

4. Gameplay Mechanics and Co-op Dynamics (17:20 – 24:43)

Despite narrative shortcomings, the hosts acknowledge the game's engaging gameplay mechanics. Justin McElroy appreciates how "Split Fiction" offers unique co-op experiences, requiring players to utilize different skill sets and fostering a sense of teamwork:

Justin McElroy [21:05]: "It is neat, like, because you do actually feel like you're working together because you're doing different things."

Russ Frushtick and Christopher Thomas Glanz discuss moments of in-game tension and humor, such as cooperative challenges and player mistakes, which add depth to the gameplay experience.

However, concerns arise regarding the game’s difficulty balance. The hosts note that while the game appears challenging, it employs mechanics that prevent genuine frustration, making it accessible even to less experienced players:

Christopher Thomas Glanz [24:06]: "It looks a little more challenging than it takes to on the surface... but it’s prevent something frustrating."

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5. Audience Reception and Game Design Philosophy (24:43 – 32:15)

Christopher Thomas Glanz speculates on the game's broad appeal, suggesting that its design caters to both avid gamers and newcomers by offering a "tour of video game mechanics." He contemplates whether the positive reception stems from genuine appreciation of the writing or from the enjoyable co-op interactions the game facilitates.

Justin McElroy shares his personal enjoyment of playing "Split Fiction" with friends, emphasizing the fun of cooperative gameplay despite narrative flaws:

Justin McElroy [30:13]: "Playing a video game with your friends is fun... feel like Slice and I are doing that... positivity."

Russ Frushtick concurs, highlighting how the game's design fosters reliance and teamwork, essential components of successful co-op gaming:

Russ Frushtick [21:35]: "There's a reliance on the other player that I think makes this all work."

The discussion touches upon the balance between fun gameplay and compelling storytelling, with the hosts desiring more inventive narrative elements to complement the mechanical prowess.

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6. Comparing "Split Fiction" to Other Titles (32:15 – 43:38)

The hosts transition to comparing "Split Fiction" with other cooperative and narrative-driven games. Russ Frushtick shares his positive experience with "The Golf," a game suitable for both seasoned players and young children, praising its accessible co-op mechanics:

Russ Frushtick [35:04]: "I just experienced one recently with my child... we can actually finish levels, which is kind of shocking."

Justin McElroy discusses other sandbox and creative games like "Untitled Goose Game" and "Goat Simulator," which offer engaging co-op experiences without high levels of competition or frustration.

Christopher Thomas Glanz recommends narrative-heavy games such as "Curse of the Golden Idol" and "Kentucky Route 0," acknowledging their appeal for co-op play despite potential challenges like reading and pace differences.

---

7. Listener Mail and Recommendations (43:38 – 58:43)

The episode incorporates listener interactions, with Harrison asking about the best single-player games to enjoy with someone else. Christopher Thomas Glanz suggests titles that promote cooperative puzzle-solving and narrative engagement without relying heavily on synchronous gameplay.

The hosts exchange recommendations for movies and TV shows, touching on titles like "Bad Genius," a Thai heist thriller, and "Substance," a film exploring themes of identity and societal expectations. They emphasize the importance of media that fosters empathy and understanding across different experiences.

Justin McElroy shares his journey into learning Linux and programming, discussing the satisfaction derived from hands-on experimentation and the usefulness of resources like Wizard Zines and explainshell.com:

Justin McElroy [44:20]: "It's similar setups, because you are doing it all yourself... I feel like I'm understanding these concepts in a way."

The conversation underscores the value of continuous learning and the integration of personal interests into their professional and creative endeavors.

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8. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Content (58:43 – End)

As the episode concludes, the hosts thank their Patreon supporters and mention upcoming content, including a new bracket episode on the best Easter eggs in video games. Justin McElroy previews a comedic segment highlighting an X-Files easter egg in video games, showcasing the show's signature humor.

They briefly discuss future gaming and media consumption plans, touching upon shows like "Severance" and "The White Lotus," and express enthusiasm for continued content creation and community engagement.

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Notable Quotes:

• Justin McElroy [00:13]: "Do you think it's too smart now?"
• Christopher Thomas Glanz [01:09]: "Maybe there's a rhythm in your voice that has been training our audience... to care deeply about your bullshit."
• Russ Frushtick [07:14]: "It's a video game club and you're a member because you started listening and that's kind of a trap we lay for you every week."
• Justin McElroy [12:09]: "None of the dialogue feels like anything human beings say... It's built entirely of cliches."
• Russ Frushtick [21:35]: "There's a reliance on the other player that I think makes this all work."
• Justin McElroy [44:20]: "I'm understanding these concepts in a way... it feels more believable."
• Justin McElroy [58:29]: "Hacker stickers. You've got a raspberry PI sticker."

---

Conclusion:

In this episode of "The Besties," the hosts delve deep into "Split Fiction," offering a balanced perspective that highlights both its innovative co-op mechanics and its narrative shortcomings. Through humor and candid discussion, they explore the game's appeal to different audiences and compare it to other titles in the genre. Additionally, the episode features engaging segments on gaming recommendations, personal projects, and media insights, reinforcing the Besties' commitment to providing comprehensive and entertaining content for their listeners.

Transcript

[Justin McElroy]

I. I'm worried because we were talking about like honorable mentions. I'm worried that what I'm doing at this point, the way I'm filling my free time, I am worried that I will have lost the besties audience with. It's too much.

[Russ Fresh]

Do you think it's too smart? Do you think you're too smart now?

[Justin McElroy]

It's not too smart. It's too. It's too niche. It's too small, it's too annoying. It's pointless because your brain is too.

[Russ Fresh]

Big now for everyone else.

[Justin McElroy]

Is that it's not a brain is too big. It's that the brain has winnowed itself down to just where it only you're fin.

[Russ Fresh]

So you're okay. So basically what you're saying is the equivalent would be if you really got into whittling, but only whittling small piccolos.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. Yes, exactly. Yes. And they were. And they didn't make noise. Yeah. So they were like decorative artisanal piccolos. Right. Like just because. Just because learning how to SSH into your Raspberry PI so you can make a time lapse camera for your wife's plants. Just because.

[Russ Fresh]

That sounds dope though.

[Justin McElroy]

Just because it has computer stuff in it doesn't mean that it is like cool to people who like video games. That is a tough distinction.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I saw the comments on the newsletter for last week and I have never seen more people engage with your fucking piccolos than they were sysadmins in our comments. All the Linux. What I think what we've discovered is maybe kind of subconsciously there's a rhythm in your voice that has been training our audience over the past decade to care deeply about your bullshit.

[Justin McElroy]

I think it's just. I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna keep that audience, but I'm gonna. It'll be like a baiting kind of thing where like I'll throw em every couple episodes. I'll just kind of like casually throw out like put a new distro on the rig date, took out Ubuntu, put on Kubuntu, messed around with Linux Mint a little bit, but so the packages weren't there. It got to have that Spotify snap insulation.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

The listeners are sweating with joy right now. They are just drenched.

[Russ Fresh]

Do you have to wedgie yourself or is that something Sydney does?

[Justin McElroy]

I have a professional. Yeah, my wife is a very busy woman. She doesn't have time to come give me nuclear turbo wedgies every hour on the hour. I have to wake up. I pay a guy to wake me up at 4 in the morning because I can't get them in in my waking hours. I have to have a man come by and wedgie me at night. He scares my children. I beg him not to, but then he wedges me harder because he's a bully.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Ubuntu.

[Justin McElroy]

All the worst, man. The fact that people talk about Fedora so much. You guys have got to work on that, though. I listen a lot of it's good, but you guys have got to work on the fedora stuff. My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

My name is Christopher Thomas Glanz and I know the best game of the week.

[Russ Fresh]

My name is Russ Fresh. And this game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

No, there's only three of us. Yeah. Welcome to the Besties. It's a video game club where we talk about the latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment. It's a video game club and you're a member because you started listening and that's kind of a trap we lay for you every week. This week we're going to be talking about Split Fiction, sort of. Kind of like the fourth. I think of it as like the third or fourth in like a sort of pseudo series. Yeah. That has come from this studio. This is the new one. What is this one? Plant. What's the setting this one apart?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Split Fiction is a co op focused game that is a follow up to It Takes Two, which might be the most slow, rapid growing mega hit of all time. I don't even know how to describe its trajectory. This time, you and a friend or family member are going to play as one character who loves fantasy and another character who loves sci fi as they get trapped in the worlds of their own imagination and fend off evil AI.

[Russ Fresh]

Wait, do we know that AI? Really? I thought it was corporations.

[Justin McElroy]

It's probably AI it's all AI.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

What do you think corporations are at this point? Gotcha. I love good coffee. The problem is good coffee is often very expensive. You're going to a coffee shop, you're spending seven, eight bucks for a cup of coffee. You can tell. I live near Los Angeles, you want good coffee, but you don't want to spend all of your money on it. And that is why I recommend trade coffee. It is the number one U.S. specialty coffee marketplace brings you all these fresh coffees from over 50 of the country's top roasters. And here's the neat thing. There's a little quiz that you can take. It takes like a minute and they will match you with a coffee that is just right for you. And this matters because I think a lot of people who are new to getting into coffee, they think all coffee kind of tastes the same, but there's all sorts of fresh flavors that can be coming from your coffee. You can have fruit flavors, you can have these kind of almost sour notes. There's an entire world of flavor waiting for you with nice coffee. And this is the best opportunity you can find to get into it without breaking the bank. I have really enjoyed it. The roasters have been just solid. The bags, you know, you're not buying it for the look. But let me just tell you, the companies they partnered with, great aesthetic all around. We've got Joe, we've got Common Voice, Irving Farm. Really great familiar brands that I love, love, and I'm happy to just have delivered right to my front door. I like it. I think you'll like it. Right now. You can get into it real easy. Trade is exclusively offering our listeners 40% off your first order at drinktrade.com forward slash besties. That's drink trade T R A D E.com forward slash besties for 40% off your first order. Drinktrade.com forward slash besties.

[Justin McElroy]

So split Fiction is. I mentioned it as like a sort of pseudo. Pseudo series I think is. I don't know if you would count Brothers, although Brothers is definitely like exploring some of these co op ideas, you know, even though it's a single player game.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. They're all from the same develop. You said four games from the same developer that all are either strictly exclusively co op. But you can't play with just yourself or they, in the case of Brothers could play. You could play as a single player. It was a single player game but it had you controlling two characters at once.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. So that single, it was Brothers and then a way out which is like a prison Break kind of thing. It Takes Two was the most recent and that was a game that like. I thought It Takes Two was really interesting because I thought that was the.

[Russ Fresh]

Divorce puppet that you turned into like little people.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And it really. I feel like the. It is one of those rare examples, maybe not rare, but like where I feel like the. A lot of the press and the critics kind of saw like the parts that weren't functioning. And then it seemed like there was this audience that found the game of people playing together and like they're not being a lot of games that like the people that I've encountered that really enjoyed It Takes Two have Been couples that have, like, played it together and, like, had a really good experience with it as a result of that. So this is another co op game. I played split screen. I don't know what you guys did.

[Russ Fresh]

But I thought we played online.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, cool.

[Russ Fresh]

But it. But when you play online, it's also split screen. You can also see the other person's.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Screen, which is helpful. Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. Well, they probably would have to balance it twice for different experiences if you.

[Russ Fresh]

Didn'T have that because you genuinely, like, Plant was making the point even though we're online. Like, he could. If I was looking at, like, something cool or whatever, he could see that because I was looking at it.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

You can give each other advice on, like, oh, you should hit that object.

[Justin McElroy]

You're also the. Some of the experiences that you're having, I think are asynchronous enough that it's kind of neat to, like, see what the other person is doing. It, like, builds the. Helps build some tension in some of the.

[Russ Fresh]

Some of the scenes and maybe some jealousy when one person has the boring job and the other person has a cool job.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah, yeah, no comment. So what. What should we talk about first? The game.

[Russ Fresh]

I want to talk about the story. I want to. No, no, I want to start with the narrative first.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Okay, go ahead.

[Russ Fresh]

The narrative is, like, pretty fucking funny just as a baseline premise. So you have these two characters. There's Mio and. Sorry, I'm blanking on. The other, Zoe. And they are both aspiring writers, but Mio seemingly doesn't give a fuck about writing and just wants to get a paycheck. And Zoe really, really cares deeply about her fantasy stories. And they go into this high tech, I guess, corporation that is like, we want your stories.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

That's also literally called Raider.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. Which, you know, the company's called Raider. Wink, wink.

[Justin McElroy]

And he says, I am Raider. Like, he doesn't say, hi, my name's JD Raider. He says, hi, I'm Raider, and it's J, period D. No, period Raider. Okay, fine. Steal a period from where the author is while you're at it, J.D.

[Russ Fresh]

So they go in there, they want a paycheck for their great stories, and it turns out what they're gonna be doing is putting on VR suits and getting shoved into balls of light wherein they kind of go into a Tron situation where they are experiencing their stories in a virtual environment and they have to, like, survive them.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

An animus from Assassin's Creed, I would say, is like, rather than re experiencing history, you're experiencing your stories. I see they're being extracted.

[Russ Fresh]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Now, in a really baffling twist, they told. Not twist set up. They've told these authors that they're bringing them there to publish them. And then they put them into white super suits. And it's like, none of the authors, save one, is like, this doesn't normally happen in publishing. And they're like, no, it's part of the publishing. Get in the bubbles. And it's like, just tell them you're going to let them walk around their worlds. Yeah, Like, I mean, just say it's. It's a VR thing where you can walk around your book worlds and the authors will go and do it. You don't need all of this nonsense. It makes that people look so stupid from the jump of the story.

[Russ Fresh]

Also, the fact that they're trying to make money in publishing is also pretty funny.

[Justin McElroy]

Our master plan, I. Hopefully their master plan is not make money in publish.

[Russ Fresh]

Okay, so that's the setup. And very quickly you, I guess Mio gets shoved into Zoe's bubble and now they're together experiencing one another's story, then kind of bouncing between the two. So you've got some levels in fantasy, you've got some levels in sci fi, and then you've got some quote, side quests that take place in some, like, for lack of a better term, just like direct references to other video games.

[Justin McElroy]

So if we were talking about the narrative first, I think there's a lot of really cool stuff happening gameplay wise. But I did want to say, just from a narrative perspective, I think this game is so poorly written, none of the dialogue feels like anything human beings say. And you shouldn't say that your main characters are authors who are filled with such creative ideas that people need to steal from them and then make them two of the most generic human beings I've ever seen in a video game. These people are not authors. They don't care about their stories, they don't care about their worlds. They don't. I don't know what they like, even their stories are the Most. Is that Studio 60 problem of, like, if you're gonna do a show about funny people, it's gotta be funny.

[Russ Fresh]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

So if you're gonna do a show about authors who are so inspiring that people are gonna steal their ideas, they gotta be better than, like cyber ninjas. And I am sorry to be, like, coming out on a hard note, but it is so frustrating to see the arrogance on display here that the studio thinks that they are able to write, like, dialogue that works and none of it, I mean, yeah, none of it works. It is built entirely of cliches and I. And it feels like people who don't have a great grasp of the English language, writing dialogue primarily in English and having to overly rely on cliches because it is uniformly terrible.

[Russ Fresh]

The analog that I would say is if you've played like Quantic Dreams stuff. Yeah, that it's a very similar issue.

[Justin McElroy]

Very.

[Russ Fresh]

I think it's people that like, I don't doubt that Joseph Ferris is very confident in his writing style because obviously he makes games that are very narrative forward. But I think this is true of a lot of his stuff. And arguably for me, I didn't play a way out, but I loved Brothers. And it's kind of telling that that is a game without any dialogue whatsoever.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, yes, yes.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

The thing that's happening on a moment to moment level that makes it just difficult to latch onto the story is there is no real antagonist once you are in the game for the first few hours. So you, you arrive at Raider. Raider is purportedly the antagonist, right. This corporate publishing overlord who's going to steal all of your ideas and then you hop into the bubbles of sci fi or fantasy and suddenly the antagonist would be the villain of that story. So it'd be, you know, like the sci fi overlord or the fantasy Evil Queen or whatever. But they don't really have any connection to the overarching story. So they don't really have anything to do. They're not real. There's no stakes. If you die in this world, nothing happens. If you stop or don't stop this world, nothing happens. The wants and needs of the villains in these worlds are irrelevant to the overall story for the first few hours. And that is a really tough way, story wise to pull you through the game when you're like, wait, why am I here? Who is this villain? What do they want? What will even happen to me if they don't get it?

[Justin McElroy]

There's no villain, no motives. And it's also, I think kind of the worst thing is it's. It's like dull for such a sweaty premise that seems set up to like, it feels like rifts apart kind of where they're setting up. Like this world could go anywhere.

[Russ Fresh]

What is Rift apart? I don't know what that.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry. Ratchet and Clank jumping between like different realities. Right. Or like it seems like they're setting up a big like, why make the levels ideas and then have like a straight down the middle sci fi game for Three hours. It's like, it, it. That really feels like such a huge missed opportunity that they're not bringing in, like when they're taught. They show you other authors and this may be happening later in the game. They show you other authors and they're like talking about their worlds and like, I kind of expected it would be like you're going into their stories to do something, to warn them about something.

[Russ Fresh]

You maybe do. I don't know, maybe you do at.

[Justin McElroy]

Some point, but there's no other. The worlds that I have seen have been like. There are a couple side things that are kind of like really cool and creative, but then there are some that are just like straight down the middle rips of game worlds that you've played before.

[Russ Fresh]

Well, intentionally to the point of like, like there's a.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

They quote.

[Russ Fresh]

There's a line.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

They quote. They quote the games.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah, well, there's a line that's like, you have to take a leap of faith and then you do the leap of faith from Assassin's Creed. Like, that's how direct.

[Justin McElroy]

And it's not a game about video games, it's a game about books. Yeah, it's frustrating because I like so much of the stuff that is happening in this game and it feels like an arrogance of, well, the story is done and we don't have to like achieve something there that is new or unique or original. The machine that the bad guys use in this game is called the Machine. Like just.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Well, I mean, last game was the Book of Love, you know?

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, it's like, I think an AI machine already stole all your good ideas, guys, and you're just like using nouns and adjectives.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Okay, so why, why do these games work so well? And why do I think this game is going to make a gajillion dollars and people are going to love it is the other half of it. And I do wonder how much people. You know, these games have a great reputation for the writing. Is that people really loving the writing, which it might be. Or is it people associating the good vibes that they have, spending time with their people they love, maybe even goofing about the writing, telling their own story? That seems more like it.

[Russ Fresh]

And yeah, I think that's what's happening. I think people are talking over the writing. Certainly Plant and I to some extent were doing that, even though I had the subtitles on to make sure I didn't miss anything. But like, there is a back and forth that brings life to the co op gameplay, which I did Enjoy. That kind of trumps the very kind of vanilla flat.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

You get a bonus point because playing a video game with your friends is fun. Like, it was fun to do that with my friend slice on the couch. Playing together. Like, I think you're. You're bringing some of that, like, positivity.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yes. And if you break writing down into, like, three parts, Right. There's the structure of the whole story, there's the dialogue. I don't really enjoy either of those. But if you think of the scenarios that they're actually creating, like, what are you doing? What is the gameplay? That stuff's clever as hell. There is. I mean, the amount of raw ideas. Nothing in this game is, you know, 10 out of 10 the most exciting new video game idea you've ever seen. But as somebody who's been playing games their entire life, it's basically a tour, a breakneck tour of video game mechanics.

[Justin McElroy]

There is something about, and I don't exactly know, it's a very unique feeling that is specific to this kind of game, but there is something about there being a fun gameplay thing that you are not doing or any gameplay thing that you are not doing that, like, lends to the verisimilitude of the world in the moment. To me, like, it feels, like, more believable because the fact that there's other fun stuff happening, it makes what I'm doing feel more real because it feels less like a video game and more like that's happening over there and this is happening here. And holding both of those things in your mind is really not something that video games do very often of.

[Russ Fresh]

Like, yeah, the closest you can get, like, you're playing an online game and, oh, like, someone's giving you comms that, like, oh, there's a guy around this corner that you don't actually see. But here you'll see not only someone might be doing a call out your buddy next to you or online, but you also see their screen so you can see what they're doing. And sometimes I'll see, like, plant in the distance, like, trying to hit a switch or missing a jump or something like that. And so you're seeing it from, like, three different angles in a way. And that is pretty cool. And it does, yeah. Lend more light to these environments they really enjoy.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I really enjoyed being able to see you screw up a lot fresh.

[Russ Fresh]

Sure.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Because it was great to know that you are not the perfect gamer. You're infinitely better than me. Let's get it out.

[Russ Fresh]

It might just be that I'm More persistent. Well, let's talk about your persistent gamer.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Let's talk about my favorite moment of this video.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, sure.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

So Fresh. And I get in. There's all these rapid fire. You're learning everything. You're learning how to jump. You're learning how to walk on walls. You're learning how to run.

[Russ Fresh]

The pace of the first two hours of this game is fucking. It's like an uncharted cutscene, but for two hours doing so much, there's no stopping in that two hours.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

And then Fresh and I, we're hopping from, like, giant space semi truck to giant space car. We're flying through cities, Fifth Element style. And I. And I hop from one truck onto another. And I'm climbing through, you know, the future world. And I turn to Fresh and I say, okay, lift that ladder. And he says, you did not say that.

[Russ Fresh]

You said, what do you do now? And I'm like, well, all I can do is latch onto this one ladder.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Get the ladder. And he said, it can't go any further down. And we bash our heads against this thing.

[Russ Fresh]

We're like, is the game broken?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

We try everything. We try to break the geometry. We reset the checkpoint, we come back and then. What was the fix?

[Russ Fresh]

I just had to raise the ladder instead of lowering it.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

You turned the handle the wrong way.

[Russ Fresh]

Do you know that part, Justin? Do you know which part I'm talking about?

[Justin McElroy]

I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Russ Fresh]

Did you get stuck on that part?

[Justin McElroy]

No, no, no. Instantly Slice and I are like. It's like when you're really good friends, it's like you kind of.

[Russ Fresh]

No, yeah, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I get is those sequences are. Again, it is that asynchronous, like, one person trying to platform while the other person is driving a truck. It's really fun. And.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And it only works because they are like. It's weird because it only works because they're depriving you of something. Right. It only works because they're kind of depriving you of half of the experience. But that's like a reductive way of looking at it because you are, like, sharing it with somebody else. But it is. It is neat, like, because you do actually feel like you're working together because you're doing different things. Like, when both of you have swords, then one of you could just be a better sword guy. It's neat that you have to have different skill sets.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. There's a reliance on the other player that I think makes this all work.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I also think having some tension healthy Tension in a co op game is good. Like it's fun and funny when one person has the really cool feature and the other person is a pig that shits rainbows and is not having as much fun. Me but is like, I don't know. There's like some bonding that happens when one person is getting to have more fun and then it switches, you know, 30 minutes later and suddenly you're the one getting to do all the cool stuff.

[Justin McElroy]

They also do a good job, I think, of making areas where if you are having fun with the other person and you're approaching it in a good, in a good spirit. There were several areas that Slice and I ran into were like, we would just play around. Like it was just fun to. They have props in the environment that are like interactive.

[Russ Fresh]

It's like a basketball hoop at one point.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. There's like a. We were like. There was a water slide and we were like trying to get on the water slide and land in the, in the rings and you could like sit in a ring and just float around and like there's no reason to do it. But it is like in, in, in. If you're like having sort of a hang with someone else. It's nice to have those moments where you don't feel like there's zero stakes for screwing up. It's so low pressure. If you die, you're instantly back. I mean it's like not a big, a big deal. Most of the time when you're like not in like an active combat situation, it's like you make a misstep, you're right back into it most of the time.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Did you find this game more challenging than It Takes Two or any of the other games they've made?

[Justin McElroy]

You know, I didn't play It Takes Two. I didn't. I didn't find this particular particularly challenging. I would say we. It was pretty. I don't think we like fully wiped at any point where like both of us were down. Generally it was like one of us would die. But it never was like something where I felt like we were having to adjust our approach. Sure. To get past something it was not. It was. It was never like that. Like, okay, we died, let's try this again a different way. It was usually adapt on the fly.

[Russ Fresh]

This feels very much designed for one person is like pretty capable of video games and the other person is like tangentially familiar with video games but doesn't play them very often.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

And that's great. Honestly, like that makes for a really tough design. Challenge because obviously you can't make sequences super hard because it's just going to get frustrating. They wisely have it so that if one person dies they can be revived by themselves very, very quickly.

[Justin McElroy]

They do a little like you can hammer the button to go faster which adds just like a little bit of skill and interest to like the reviving.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

It looks a little more challenging than it takes to on the surface. For people who played it, the game just moves faster. Fresh you made the uncharted comparison, but it does so much to make sure that you don't screw up. So there's you know, intricate jumping sequences but the reality is you can pretty much smash the jump button and it's gonna magnetize you to the poles that you need to go toward like big time magnet.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

So I think it, it wants to look like a hard game.

[Justin McElroy]

There's some cool perspective stuff too that look like where one of you is playing a top down game and the other one's playing a side scroller. And that's, that's pretty neat.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. They also have sequences that the height of the absolute peak of what we played, which was the first, I would say like three ish, three and a half hours. There's a moment where Mio is driving a motorcycle and Zoe has to activate a self destruct thing on the motorcycle.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

And Mio is not just driving a space motorcycle. Mio is going through a Jerry Bruckheimer film. It is the most explosion.

[Justin McElroy]

It's great. Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

So, so but while that's happening, Zoe has to activate an app on her phone that can activate this self destruct mechanism and the app in the middle of this intense race.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, can I. I feel like this is a little bit like this is for me. I thought the phone thing was like one of the best things that we did. I feel like it's a little bit. That's fairly. It's a few hours spoiler territory.

[Russ Fresh]

I would say if you're going to play it, that moment and you'll notice it when it happens is really like a spectacular highlight for me from a gameplay standpoint and from just like a storytelling standpoint, I wish that there were more moments like that. What's difficult for me to kind of wrap my head around is if you've got two people that play games a lot, obviously Plant and I play a lot. Justin plays a lot of games. I can't speak for slice whether they exist or not, but it does feel like obviously if you take the multiplayer out of it and you were just doing the Things in this game, it would be like maybe the most dull, flat, like third person to a comical.

[Justin McElroy]

Degree, where it feels like, it feels like the video game that's in a CSI episode. You know what I mean?

[Russ Fresh]

Like, yes.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah. But I, I, that, that feels to me like being like, well, you know, if you don't fry the potatoes, tastes.

[Justin McElroy]

Like just to, to rest his point, though, I think for me at least I had a pleasant time while playing it with Slice. I do not feel a compulsion to make that happen again. I feel zero compulsion, like, see what happens with the rest of the story or see what else happens mechanically. Where if I was, it was fun to do together, but I'm not anxious to return to it and playing. I mean, I can't play by myself, but it has not even occurred to me to like, I got, I want to see what happens next. It feels more like matter of fact, like, oh, this is really fun to play together. But I don't feel like Slice. Come on, we got to see what happens with this incredibly inane story. And I just feel like a little bit of that would have gone so far. He's making this something that's easier to recommend.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Do you think it's even for us in that way? I picture the type of person who's going to really enjoy this game is the person who plays maybe two or three games a year or maybe hasn't even played a game in five years. And it's the family member that you bring into the game. Right. And do you know, like hotel tv? That idea where it's like you haven't watched TV in like years, cable, and then you go like a hotel and you turn it on and you're like, oh, shit, hotel tv. I'm like locked in.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I feel like that's. This is like hotel TV of games. If you haven't played games in a few years, you pop this on and suddenly you're just surfing through all this shit and you're just so overwhelmed cognitively. It must feel amazing for that sort of person. And then it does feel.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah, like a greatest hits almost of like where video games are at.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah. And again, if you aren't, if your brain is not used to playing games very often, it is already. So I don't know, it's revving up your brain in all sorts of fun, good ways. And then I think for the person who does like video games, being able to spend time with somebody who normally doesn't have interest in your hobby and suddenly they're like really jazzed and revved up about it that's gonna release all sorts of good chemicals in your body. So I get how these games have such a huge audience because I think if you have that perfect pair, if you have your Mio and your Zoe, this becomes something really, really special. I just think it really relies on the audience, basically.

[Justin McElroy]

Is it, though, like, are we making a. Is there a point at which, like, if the narrative is too good or the story is too well written, or, like, where it would make me happy, but it would be an experience where we're, like, sitting in silence and kind of, like, sometimes my wife and I like to watch Love is Blind, but it's not because we think it's better written than severance. It's just like. Like, that's what I. That's about what I'm up to right now. I think what I'm. I think I'm putting too much pressure on it because I think what they're doing with the mechanics is so interesting that I wish they were trying to be just a little bit more inventive on any other aspect of it. I wish it was just, like, a little bit more fulfilling in any way other than this one specific thing they're doing.

[Russ Fresh]

And there was an element in It Takes Two where even though I didn't think the writing was very good, I did. I was desperate to figure out, like.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

If they were gonna do the ending, would they.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. How are they gonna do the ending? Because it's like, these two should get a divorce. They are not in a good relationship. They clearly don't like each other, and there's really no coming back from this one. And just. That was kind of pulling us along, apart from the fact that, like, Plant and I both had to review it for Polygon. And I just don't have that, like, pull that's. That's pulling me forward.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I think that's the pickle. The story doesn't have to be great. You're. You're spot on, hoops. But the inner conflict of we're making a game about AI or publishing companies and how they steal ideas, and we're going to have the main characters be people who really only have ideas from other stuff. They themselves. You're right, 100%.

[Justin McElroy]

They invite the dialogue of, like, ideas and converse and AI and, like, what makes the value of an original thought. When people ask me about writing video games, writing reviews of video games back in the day, the thing I would always tell people is, like, please read things that aren't video game reviews. And read things other than video games. And this feels like a game made like just in a world where only video games exist. Which is like, if you're gonna do that, that's cool. Astrobots. That kind of. But like, don't it make it about literature? Why is it about literature?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Have the company just be a game company?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, here's why. Plant. Because then they're 100% ripping off Assassin's Creed. This way they can kind of pretend that they're not ripping off Assassin's Creed.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I would say it's because then EA is their parent company and it's a little too obvious.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

I don't know if they. EA owns them for what it's worth.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

They're probably sure things.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't know, man. It just. I know that I'm probably asking too much and maybe that's unfair. And I know that people are going to like it because they like that last one. And go. And I'm glad. Go with God. I just wish. I feel like if you're going to make a whole game, why not make all parts of the game good? You know, that's me though.

[Russ Fresh]

I just think they need to acknowledge that they have a weak writing situation. And I don't know how to get that in their heads because their games continue to sell millions and millions and millions of copies. So I think we just have to live in the world where they continue to put out fun co op games that are written pretty badly.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, I mean, maybe we could send Quanic Dream over. Just be like, I know right now it seems like this will never end. Take it from me, David Cage. Eventually the money she stops.

[Russ Fresh]

We will make a great office environment for you. It is very healthy and fun.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

We should go to the B segment.

[Justin McElroy]

Through the Power of Gen Rhond.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Did you just become Dracula?

[Justin McElroy]

David Cage became Dracula.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, I knew it. This episode is sponsored by UNC Kenan Flagler Business School. Okay. Are you the sort of person that when you're playing a game that you obsess over, like the little details of your stat sheet and your inventory and how many potions you have, things like that? Seems like you might be the sort of person that would make a really good accountant. No matter the state of the job market, every industry needs accountants. And accountants are always in demand. UNC Kenan Flagler offers one of the top ranked online Masters of Accounting degrees in in the country. If you've been thinking of switching industries and you want to set yourself up for a lifelong career, pick the program with proven ROI and a 98% job placement rate. If that all sounds good to you, you could be a Tar Heel in less than one year. Learn more at Accounting Unc Edu. Thanks to UNC for sponsoring this episode.

[Unknown]

Has this ever happened to you? You sign up for something, maybe it's a subscription service of some sort, but.

[Justin McElroy]

They'Re like free trial.

[Unknown]

You're like, Hell yeah, free 99, let's go. And then you get some stuff, but then you stop paying attention to it for like a minute. And then two years later you check your bank account and it's like, oh my God, all my money's gone because of that thing I did. Well, good news. There's a service out there that can help thoughtless people like yourself. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but it's the only way you'll learn your lesson. Is Rocket Money Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. I use Rocket Money. Every once in a while I'll dip into it and without fail, there's always something, usually a kid's app, that I have forgotten I am subscribed to. And Rocket Money's like, let me just.

[Justin McElroy]

Get that for you.

[Unknown]

And then I just start saving money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket money. Go to Rocketmoney.combesties today. That's Rocketmoney.combesties Rocketmoney.combesties.

[Russ Fresh]

Okay, we've done it. That was split fiction. Given the fact that it's a co op game. I feel like there are a lot of games that are single player games technically but actually work great in co op and I just experienced one recently with my child, which was what the Golf. My child has played like three games in total and played with a heavy asterisk next to it. What the Golf has been the hugest hit. Props to Chris Plant for the recommendation. He suggested it and the way we play what the Golf is, he has control over the A button which if you remember that game really just controls the power of the swing. And I have control over the left analog stick stick which controls the direction of the aiming. And between the two of us we can actually finish levels, which is kind of shocking. I think we beat the whole main game just playing like that and that's. That's really exciting playing with a kid that's you know, three and generally not able to do much else in terms of video games. But like that was a really fun experience with him.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

It's the best.

[Russ Fresh]

It's also like Buck Wild. That game is like.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

And a tour of video game history more ambitious I would say than the one that we just talked about.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I've really gotten into with Cooper games that are a little bit more sandboxy one that things that she has really been drawn to lately is stuff like Untitled Goose game or she really likes. She's just gotten into Goat Simulator a lot on the iPad she loves. And the other one, what was the British one. Thank goodness you're here. Which is like that's something where we can play together and I can kind of put it in her hands and she. She likes to like. She doesn't have that frustration of we don't have that push and pull of like losing and winning. It's more like playing together and that's like a co op experience that's fun to share because I can kind of nudge her. But control wise it's. It's very accessible.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

We actually have. We're going to dig into reader mail and I might as well just start because my single player co op games tied to it. Harrison asked us what's the best single player game to play with someone. Example. My wife and I played through the Witness together and it was a perfect couch co op experience. You can both try and crack each puzzle section and it actually helps keeping from getting frustrated because you have someone to keep it from getting dry and in theory succeed more with two people putting their heads together looking for more games that we can enjoy together even if it's just one person behind the controller. Love you guys. So for me this is the narrative games coming big time here and the deduction games we've talked about. Curse of the Golden Idol especially if you are able to get a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. I think that's great. I think games like Kentucky Route 0 are good for this where you're picking dialogue but it doesn't really matter what dialogue you pick. It's more of a feel I think that is excellent for this sort of situation. Do you all have any other narrative type of games?

[Justin McElroy]

Witness is funny because I tried to play that one with Sid because she's into puzzles and what we learned and we probably knew it from long ago but first person things where I'm controlling It and she's not are instantly nauseating. I mean looking for 10 seconds and she is done. Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

I think that game in particular I remember feeling motion sick because of the lack of a reticle or something.

[Justin McElroy]

So any first person thing though where she is not in control and she's watching me play. Yeah, it is tough. So the more static things curse Return of the Obra Dinn is really great for that.

[Russ Fresh]

I was going to shout out the Walking Dead, the first telltale Walking Dead game I played in co op with my wife. We switched off.

[Justin McElroy]

We did that too. Those are extremely old though, aren't they?

[Russ Fresh]

They're very old games.

[Justin McElroy]

Extremely old games.

[Russ Fresh]

They still work. I still have a memory of. There's a sequence where you realize that what you're eating is human meat. It's like.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

And you fed it to a child.

[Russ Fresh]

And my wife was playing at the time and she was like just too late to stop Clementine from eating the human meat. And I've literally never let her forget it. Good times.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I also just tossed 1000 Exorcist on the pile because why not? If I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna shout it out. I think it's existent just to mention.

[Justin McElroy]

It as a game that people can purchase and play. Right.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I'm mentioning it as a game that you could play with somebody else because I think it's.

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, hey, man, you can't even get me to play it. It's pretty fucking overzealous to think you're gonna get me and somebody else to play it. You're getting greedy, Plant.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I'm telling you, I'm going to wake up. Oh, people haven't told everyone that I am the wedgie man. So next morning I'm going to wake you up at 4am I'm going to put you up on a little clothes hanger by the back of your briefs and I'm going to say, baby, it's time to play through this game.

[Justin McElroy]

A lot of people wouldn't fly cross country to give their friend a wedgie every day. You know what I mean? A lot of people don't have the guts.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I'm cool.

[Russ Fresh]

I have. Speaking of 1000x resist, I have played a bunch of the Phoenix Wright games with my wife and it's actually, it's good but for. What are they called? Graphic novel, visual novel games. It can generate some like minor tension when there's like a reading pace difference. And I think that can throw things off.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Did your connection to 1000x resist be the X in Phoenix, right? How did you know?

[Justin McElroy]

Did you brag to me and plant about how much faster you read than your wife?

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah, why do you think I was the one that was a faster reader?

[Justin McElroy]

You wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Listen, you didn't even need a guide to learn how to read.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, let's Russ is going guide free on learning how to read. He has not mastered Q or X, but he is going to nail it.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

They're coming, they're coming.

[Justin McElroy]

He said he's never going to squint until he masters those two letters.

[Russ Fresh]

People keep saying that this is a one, but it looks like an L to me and there's no convincing me otherwise.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Hey, let's dig into some more mailbag really quick please the Big question from Nick I am so shocked to hear Justin install Linux for personal use. As a server engineer, I applaud their excitement for wading into waters even I haven't bothered to yet. Hoping for SteamOS on desktop soon, Here are some recommendations for some Quake helpers. If anyone wishes to dive deeper into some of the basics, I highly recommend Wizard Zines by Julia Evans. They cover topics that are tough to even begin to quote, know what you don't know, and help you get a handle on the OS and what to look up next. I also recommend explainshell.com for whenever you need a quick explainer on a command that you found online. Easy way to learn what a command will do. It mimics the man the manual pages found within the terminal but in a more comfortable interface. I see you hoops writing these down as I name them. I love that we're turning everyone into Linux people. It's great.

[Russ Fresh]

Do you know how long it would take me to realize that man is short for Manual? Thank God for Nick actually writing that in parenthesis because I definitely would not.

[Justin McElroy]

Have and you can do the man page on man so you can Manman when you find out all the stuff about Manual. Yeah, that's a great resource I'm excited about. I heard about an OS this week called Bazzite.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh yeah, I know that Linux distribution.

[Justin McElroy]

That can run on a mini PC. So I've been thinking about. I've got a Batocera mini PC that is running like all my emulation stuff and I was thinking about setting up a Bazzite like mini PC like a Bazzite PC basically to like turn it into like a gaming. Yeah, like just use my gaming PC as like a living room type gaming setup and you know, use something else for like my my day to day stuff. It's just really. There's a. It's a confluence because I started messing around with like the Raspberry PI stuff and then that sort of like opened the door to Linux. Because Raspberry PI computers are running a, you know, version of Linux. Yeah. But those, they all work together. And I just find it very satisfying to figure out how those pieces interlock.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

I love it.

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like I didn't mention this last week when we were talking about Linux, but the thing that has been appealing to me is I've always been someone who, like Surface level, knows how to kind of do stuff with computers. But mainly because I know how to Google it and figure it out. And I feel like what's cool about with the Raspberry PI stuff and Linux because it's similar setups, because you are doing it all yourself. You really understand. I think I'm a lot less afraid to mess around with things because I know that I could just put the USB stick back on the thing and start fresh. And since I put most of the things on there and I decided what they all do and I can interact with them, it's much more simple than a normal computer. But like, I feel like I'm understanding these concepts in a way.

[Russ Fresh]

Feels like you're building an engine from scratch almost.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And I'm like understanding what's going on. Like yesterday I used my Windows computer through the terminal, connect to the camera that's doing the time lapse of Sid's plans upstairs. And. And I did that. And I had no idea that the computers, even if they were running like different operating systems, all that crap, you go in the terminal, they don't care. They get all. Talk to each other. It's great.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

It's also just wild to learn something almost entirely new once you're in your late 30s or early 40s. Because by that point in life, every day what you learn is the equivalent of if you're redecorating the house, you're like, I don't know, changing a pillowcase. It's like, oh, yeah, that's a new thought. But this. How I feel with learning Japanese is each day is like, oh, I'm just gonna have to put a whole new expansion here because I just straight up didn't know any of this when I woke up this morning. And I think it's really intimidating at first because you're bad at stuff in a way that you just have not been bad at stuff in a long time. Like since you were like a baby. But Once you get past that, if you accept, if you give yourself the permission to just be bad at it, the goal is not to be the best at the thing.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, my, my, my learning advice and I've been you, I did this with like the Python coding that I've been doing, like the Linux stuff and, and I did it with Japanese and too. But I think it's a really helpful thing is I tried to start learning in a few different ways rather than agonize about the best way to start learning something. I'll start in like three different ways usually. And because the base entry level thing is always the most rewarding to me. Right. And as it gets more advanced and it gets a little more, a little harder, then I start to get a little bored and it gets a little frustrating. Maybe I go away, but if I start back again with a different learning type and then do that introductory stuff again, I'm reinforcing those concepts. And then maybe I do it a third time and see how different learning platforms teach these concepts in different ways. And if you can understand them in two different ways or even three different ways, then as you progress through your understanding is a lot more complete. Like it's a holistic understanding. And, and I, for me, that goes a lot quicker. Even though I'm like kind of doubling the amount of work the second time I'm going through this stuff, I'm like, okay, I know this, I know this, I know this, I know this. But it's reinforcing it in a different way. And I think it's a really fun way to learn stuff.

[Russ Fresh]

But anyway, Justin, have you considered like Tony Robbins style presentations? Because I think you've got it. I think you've got.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. I mean, who wouldn't want to, to live more like me? I mean, who wouldn't want to spend more time staring at a terminal, you know what I mean? Who doesn't want to be reading more man pages?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Man.

[Justin McElroy]

Man, man, man, that's who. Hi, I'm Man Man. No need for the man. Just ask man. Do you know that you can type in. This is a command. There's a lot of commands that you can type in that start with sudo, S, U, D, O. And you know what sudo means? It means run this like I'm the boss of the whole thing no matter what. And you just type in sudo. It's like, fuck it, run this like I'm the boss no matter what. And you can type in things in that computer where the computer's like, all right, Bye. Like, okay, I'm dead. I'll forget everything. I know. Bye. It's like, oh man, I shouldn't have told you to do that. But you can.

[Russ Fresh]

So much of what I do when I'm like setting up a gaming handheld or something like that is typing in like these phrases. One of them is suit. I remember doing that and then being like, okay, it's going to say like, you're about to fucking delete everything. Just hit okay, It'll be cool. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Justin McElroy]

So rewarding to be in now at a point where, like, I feel more comfortable in the terminal. Like, I just want to get in there and do the stuff that I need to do and not fool around with like the, the, the gooey stuff. And that's like, that's very, that feels very good. I feel like I understand the crap that you're talking about on like a much deeper level without actually knowing anything.

[Russ Fresh]

And you don't feel like you're gonna, like you're, you're working without a net. Like you're gonna type.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I do feel like that.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah. So that's not scary to you?

[Justin McElroy]

It is, but this computer cost $200.

[Russ Fresh]

Investment.

[Justin McElroy]

This is what I'm saying. I bought the cheapest laptop they have and I just kept putting new operating systems on it, you know, smart. Yeah. And I'm cover. Hold on, wait.

[Russ Fresh]

Justin ran away. He ran so fast, his chair spun like in a Looney Tunes cartoon.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm covering my Linux desktop with all the most kick ass hacker stickers I can find.

[Russ Fresh]

Hacker stickers. You've got a raspberry PI sticker.

[Justin McElroy]

Got a picture of a pirate.

[Russ Fresh]

There's a picture of a pirate.

[Justin McElroy]

Look at this. This is freaking lasers. Unbelievable. My other computer cost $35. Unbelievable.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, bless you.

[Justin McElroy]

Unbelievable.

[Russ Fresh]

Are the stickers more expensive than the laptop at this point?

[Justin McElroy]

No, they came with the. Some of the many, many, many, many different components. $5 components I've gotten from China.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, man.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Y'all, while we're sharing just nice things that we've learned, can I tell you the euphemism I picked up in Japanese a couple weeks ago?

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, sure.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

When you want to say that somebody's fly is down it. It's shakai no mato. I believe that's right. Yeah. Shikai no mato. And it means your window to society.

[Justin McElroy]

Jesus, that's great. That's great.

[Russ Fresh]

God, Japanese, they're so poetic.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Figured it out.

[Russ Fresh]

We can jump into honorable mentions, I think. Yeah, yeah, I've been watching a new show, and I. I'm pretty excited to talk about it. Here's the premise. There's a guy who is having, like, kind of a tough time in life and decides that he wants to kind of, like, unplug for, like, eight hours a day and not even worry about it. So he joins a job where he, like, has no memory of that while he's at the job, and then he leaves the job, and then he can, like, live the rest of his life without knowing, like, what he was doing at the job. And this show is called the Big Brain Theory, and it's on Apple.

[Justin McElroy]

Big brain.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Big Brain Theory. Big Brain Theory.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, so I don't think. Okay, so you're talking about the Big Brain Theory, hosted by Kalpin in 2013.

[Russ Fresh]

Thirteen, yes.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Okay.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Okay. So where's this bit going?

[Justin McElroy]

I'm interested.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Where are we going? Yeah, where are we going with it?

[Justin McElroy]

Because it's different. It doesn't actually have anything to do. Where are we going, Russ?

[Russ Fresh]

I started watching Severance.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Oh.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, okay, good. Okay.

[Russ Fresh]

And it took me three years. I also, for what it's worth, spent the last week watching the first season of the White Lotus. Oh, so I am on the fucking pulse of culture right now.

[Justin McElroy]

There's a lot of great TV that you are. You're in for in store. Yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

I've been rearing a small child, and it left me in a bit of a black hole.

[Justin McElroy]

Doesn't that sound hard?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Oh, yeah.

[Russ Fresh]

Oh, that left me in a culture black hole. Because we also have the homework of playing the games on this, and I have that.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, that sounds hard, doesn't it? Imagine, man, having to have a family and play games.

[Russ Fresh]

I'm just saying it's hard to keep up with the culture.

[Justin McElroy]

Sure, yeah, it sounds stuff.

[Russ Fresh]

But Severance is a good show. People should watch it. I highly recommend. I hope it. Hope it finds an audience, because it's kind of weird, but it's got some good actors in it, and, yeah, I think it's gonna do well.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Big.

[Justin McElroy]

I feel like there was so much talk when the second season, started, but I feel like algorithms have made that so hard to tell. Like, what's actually buzzy and what's, like, the good news?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

That's always been the problem, though, right? Remember when Girls came out and it was the whole Internet was talking about girls, and then I think, like, 30,000 people watched girls when it came out.

[Russ Fresh]

That's because. Yeah, that's a New York media focusing on this show that only New York Media is watching. I do think Severance is a bigger deal. I think it, like, has actually driven subscriptions to that thing.

[Justin McElroy]

Something that I really like about Severance that I wanted to mention is it's afraid to be a genre show. And I feel like a lot of shows that have a high concept like this or a sci fi concept would want, like, Would immediately want to dismiss that and talk about the heady concepts.

[Russ Fresh]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

They're more about mythology. Like, they are like, no, there's concrete mythology. It's not abstract, it's not Lynchian. Like, these things are happening and here is, like, our reality, and here's what it means.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

It doesn't get lost in the metaphor either. I had kind of avoided it because I was like, okay, I get it. Like, you have a personality at work and you have a personality at home. And now we're going to do the thing that all the horror movies have been doing recently where they bash you over the head with the, like, very obvious metaphor in this. It's that it's interested in that sort of, but it's much more interested in the world that it's creating as if it were a real thing.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I love it. I think it's a credit to your audience, too.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah, yeah. Balances the humor really well. It's also the fact that I've been able to get as far as I have without it, like, being, quote, spoiled is kind of. I mean, I do intentionally avoid stuff that is evolved involved with the show, but, like, it's been four years and. Yeah, you know, that's kind of exciting and cool that I can have that experience.

[Justin McElroy]

And it is. I think it's a. It's a different way of, like, doing this sort of television where it kind of puts the twist at the beginning, if that makes sense. Like, the big idea, like, the big, like, what does it all mean Is in the first episode, you know what it all means.

[Russ Fresh]

That's what I was saying to Alex after watching the first episode. I was like, oh, that would be the last episode of the first season of a normal show.

[Justin McElroy]

Right. Instead, the last. How far have you made it?

[Russ Fresh]

I'm like, halfway through season one.

[Justin McElroy]

The last episode. The first season, it. I did not breathe.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Amazing. I can't wait to hear what you think about the rest of it. What else? What about you, Plant? You've been doing anything interesting?

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Oh, yeah. I'm always up to, like, cool stuff, you know, like raising a kid, playing games. It's really hard. I don't have time to watch Things like Severance. Actually, I watched Severance season one. I have not started season two. I want to recommend a movie called Bad Genius. It is a 2017 Thai heist thriller about smart high school kids. And this is a movie I saw a long time ago. I had not really thought about it recently, but now I'm starting to see it pop up on like Netflix and Canopy and lots of different places. And I don't know if it's kind of finally having its moment. I understand a years old Thai high school thriller. Is this for everybody? Yeah, it really is. If you like stuff like Ocean's Eleven or you just like high school centered stuff like Gossip Girl, here is your mix of those two things. It is so compelling and so exciting. And yeah, you do have to read subtitles, but if you can get past that hurdle, you're in for a real, real treat. And I do believe it is on Kanopy, so you don't even have to pay for a streaming service so long as you have a library card. Though I think it might be on Netflix too, which most people have. So with the school year now kind of approaching that big test taking time, I think this is a movie that especially younger folks would really enjoy.

[Russ Fresh]

Cool.

[Justin McElroy]

I just wanted to real quickly recommend the Substance. Even though it was a older film I was trying to catch up on, man, I tell you.

[Russ Fresh]

Wait, older? It came out in the last year, right?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I mean, but it's like I was trying to catch up on some of the Oscar stuff and man, I know this sounds how this makes me sound, but this year more than so many, I just could not get it together enough to watch some of these things. Man, it was so boring and sad. Like I just couldn't do it.

[Russ Fresh]

Brutalist.

[Justin McElroy]

What?

[Russ Fresh]

The Brutalist.

[Justin McElroy]

It's called the Brutalist.

[Russ Fresh]

Like, ugh, I don't like those buildings.

[Justin McElroy]

Substance was very cool and I. I liken it to. It reminded me of Night Bitch. And I think. And I feel like this feels kind of embarrassing and vulnerable to say, but I hope that it hits the way it's meant to. There have been things that I have sort of understood about being a woman and being a woman, like in America specifically, that I've only sort of understood through my wife and like talking to her and intellectually understanding it. And I think that it's really cool to see movie. Like Ebert said that movies are like engines for empathy. And I feel like both of these movies have really helped me to understand in a better way and like an emotional way what it is like to be a woman. And in this case, the substance, like a woman who is older than many of her peers that is trying to, like, still make it and still like what society expects of her. The plot is similar to Severance. It kind of lays it out, the ideas pretty early on. It is about a substance where this fitness influencer, who is played by Demi Moore, it basically creates a second her. It's a second body that she can utilize as long as she switches back and forth between the two once a week. So she can have this career where she is this young, vital superstar and she goes back to herself, but she has to switch every week or a movie happens.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

So.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, but it's. It's great. It's very. It's. It's weird. It is unsettling to watch. It is a good example of a movie that was written by someone who. English is not their first language, but they have made that a strength by not trying to make the dialogue literal. It feels a little disorienting. It adds a heightened reality to the whole thing.

[Russ Fresh]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And it. And it is not trying to feel like literal dialogue.

[Russ Fresh]

Not going for naturalism.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And I think that, like, that. That really. That. That helps a lot. And I think that it's very, very cool.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

There's also a lookbook for this movie that now is online that people can check out that is extremely cool to look through. I don't know if you had a chance to see this yet, but I'll send it to you. I think you'll really dig it.

[Russ Fresh]

Cool. I think we did it. Griffin will be back next week. I wanted to thank the following people for being patrons of the Besties. We have some new members. We have Jior. Sorry if I'm gonna screw up the pronunciations. I'll do my best. Giora, Jared, Kael or Chell. I'm not sure which one, but I did research the pronunciation of your name and Alistair, which is an awesome name. And I didn't think anyone had that name since Alistair Cook. So I'm glad that they're keeping it around. Welcome. We appreciate you and we appreciate everyone else at the Patreon. We have a new bracket episode which is about the best Easter eggs in video games. That is live right now. Here's a clip from it.

[Justin McElroy]

The thing that they've connected is that.

[Unknown]

The year the X Files is the.

[Justin McElroy]

Year the X Files started, you punch that in and you get abducted by aliens. That. I think this is. This is. I gotta say, man, this is primo. This is primo. Easter egg because it has the quality that I think we have been dancing around this whole time, but I think this one really highlights it. A great Easter egg makes you kind of want to give the creator a wedgie.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Yeah, sure.

[Justin McElroy]

This makes. It's like, oh, you dorks. God, you guys are such nerds. Clearly. Bully, you guys. I mean, you're making your murder game, but really you're just watching X Files and be a big dorks. I think that. That. That is primo, right? That they're sneaking that kind of junk in there. Yes, please.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

That's the power of a snort, too, right? I mean, that's really. We kind of. That is why it's snorting us all the time. Because when you snort that, that's kind of a. Yeah. Like, it's a little.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's how a person who is congested laughs.

[Unknown]

And that's inherently.

[Justin McElroy]

That's pretty dorky.

[Russ Fresh]

Awesome. Good times. That was fun. What are we doing next week, Justin?

[Justin McElroy]

Next week we're going to take a break from all this work and all this gaming and all this action. We're gonna take a little break with wonderstock, and we're going to continue to do what we have to do. We will still be working because we have to talk about a video game, but the video game is kind of about, like, not. Not doing that.

[Russ Fresh]

But it's ironic.

[Justin McElroy]

But we're not taking a break. Like, we never do.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

No, we never stop.

[Justin McElroy]

Be sure to enjoy this again for the besties, because shouldn't the world's best friends make the world's best games.

[Christopher Thomas Glanz]

Sa.