The Highs and Lows of Borderlands 4

Summary

The Besties – “The Highs and Lows of Borderlands 4”

Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy
Date: September 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, three of the Besties (Russ is absent this week) dive deep into Borderlands 4, discussing its strengths, weaknesses, and what sets it apart (or fails to) from its predecessors. The episode also touches on the state of Destiny Rising (the new mobile Destiny game), Henry Halfhead (a quirky indie), their progress on Silksong, Noah Hawley’s new show Alien Earth, and a live musical performance experience with The Invincible Czars. The conversation is marked by their usual mix of irreverent banter, personal anecdotes, and incisive analysis.

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Main Discussion: Borderlands 4

Autumn Vibes & Initial Confusion

• [00:00] Griffin jokingly describes Borderlands 4 as an “autumnal game” that should come with “a slice of banana bread and a pot of chili ... served in a whole pumpkin.”

  “The game should come with a slice of banana bread and a pot of chili and just a whole pumpkin ... so spirited has it gotten me for the autumn season.” — Griffin McElroy [00:02]

• After some playful confusion—Griffin reveals he’s been playing Costume Quest by mistake—Justin claims the main responsibility for dissecting Borderlands 4 today.

Highs: Writing and Tone Improvements

• [08:07] Justin and Griffin agree Borderlands 4 is “kind of fun,” with Griffin crediting Justin’s veteran game critic skills for quickly landing on that conclusion.

• Major improvement noted: The writing is toned down compared to previous games.

  “The writing doesn't make me want to die ... it is not trying so hard to a point where you want to claw your own eyes out.” — Justin McElroy [09:08]

  “The writing and story are super duper inoffensive ... it’s way better than just constantly joke, joke, joke ... and feeling so exhausting.” — Griffin McElroy [09:37]

• Christopher points out the benefit of humor serving actual narrative or character purposes, not just relentless gags.

Lows: Weaknesses & Lingering Problems

Writing & Character Building

• Griffin hedges that while the writing is less offensive, it is still not great, partly due to the challenge of writing for four distinct playable characters.

  “It feels like you're storming through the same dialogue with four different voices, four different lines ... it’s hard to make that feel really, really strong.” — Griffin McElroy [12:08]

The Gunplay and Abilities

• Justin and Griffin both play as Vex, enjoying her creative duplicate-summoning ability and finding enjoyment in experimenting with different gun types and builds.

  “To me, I didn’t know what was going to happen when I pulled the trigger half the time. And that’s really fun ... I would start pulling the trigger and just start shooting tiny bombs. It’s like, whoa, what is this?” — Justin McElroy [17:28]

• Guns are still central, but they cycle frequently (until you reach endgame, per Griffin), with various outlandish mechanics—a source of fun but not necessarily meaningful build depth.

Performance and Structural Flaws

• Both Justin and Griffin complain about rough PC performance, even on beefy machines, and suggest optimization is getting worse in current-gen games ([18:50]).

  “I feel like games these days ... should be getting better at that low end optimization. ... Rather than it get better, they're actually getting worse.” — Justin McElroy [19:28]

The Open World: Design Issues

• The new open-world structure is divisive.

  • Griffin: “I truly, truly do not like the open world of this game. I really, really ... It is not like a hub system. ... Unlocking fast travel points is kind of annoying ... and the movement... really breaks the flow.” [20:03–22:42]
  • Movement options like the hover bike and grappling hook are underwhelming; verticality is cumbersome and backtracking tedious.

• Justin describes an awkward mission where the quest design fails to account for player intuition, breaking the experience ([23:53]):

  “I fast travel back and then I’m no longer holding this egg. ... oh, you wanted me to ... just walk with this egg, huh?” — Justin McElroy [24:19]

• Griffin expresses frustration that co-op play is a Band-Aid for what he sees as fundamental pacing issues:

  “There’s always something fun and great and pure and good at the heart of the thing that is kind of tarnished ... by the stuff surrounding it.” — Griffin McElroy [26:06]

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Secondary Discussions

Destiny Rising: The Mobile Destiny

• [28:28]–[38:09] Justin introduces Destiny Rising as the first mobile Destiny game on Android, which feels and looks like Destiny but introduces gotcha mechanics and character-specific weapon pools.

• The core gameplay feels like Destiny, but aggressive monetization and overwhelming free-to-play systems ultimately sour Justin’s enthusiasm:

  “...when I got hit with those first few walls of, like, gotcha garbage ... It stings the eyes ... everything’s glowing, everything’s glittering ... you don’t notice that you're doing it.” — Justin McElroy [34:33–35:19]

• Chris sees this as the trajectory for most big free-to-play games, while Griffin notes the business model is becoming instantly recognizable and off-putting for series regulars.

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Indie Spotlight: Henry Halfhead

• [38:34]–[46:19] Chris describes Henry Halfhead, a short, whimsical indie where you play as the top half of a person’s head, possessing different objects to solve puzzles.

• The narration begins with childlike whimsy and gradually incorporates adult themes—without becoming dark, but delivering existential reflections.

  “At first the narration is like Henry got out of his bed and played with his toys. And then later it's like Henry is at work and it’s extremely boring and he has no sense of self worth. And you’re like, oh, Jesus. Okay, now I see.” — Chris Plante [42:54]

• Designed for both solo and co-op, Chris notes it’s more fun with a friend, as the joy lies in mutual discovery of how objects interact.

• For those just seeking silly mechanics, Chris suggests muting the narrative for a purely playful experience.

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Listener Letters & Honorable Mentions

Silksong Progress

• Griffin is deep into the last leg of Silksong (about 32 hours), praising its exceptional writing, emotional growth of Hornet, and challenging bosses—but wary of investing in a 100% completion run ([49:07–50:57]).

Alien Earth (TV Show)

• Justin and Chris discuss Noah Hawley’s new show, blending Alien lore with Peter Pan themes, corporate intrigue, and consciousness transfer, with a riveting premise and a less “pretentious” approach than some of Hawley’s other works.

  “This is highly entertaining, super engaging ... touches on the themes and then moves on to more action ... less pretension here and more entertainment and storytelling.” — Justin McElroy [57:24]

The Invincible Czars’ Phantom of the Opera Live Performance

• Chris recommends this unique live event, where a modern band scores classic silent films, “so transcendent” and an exciting experience for the Halloween season ([61:00]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Griffin on missed co-op opportunities:

  “...this situation is such a pain in the ass ... if I want to go back up there and get that, I’m going to have to run all the way through this wonderful maze...” [22:55]

• Chris, on live corrections:

  “People think that that’s a waste of money. The five people that I have full time living in my ... [corrections department].” [26:53]

• Chris, describing existential themes in games:

  “...you have some mild existential awareness by the end where it’s like, hey, you learned some human drama while playing a video game...” [45:13]

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Highlighted Timestamps

• [08:07] Justin and Griffin admit Borderlands 4 is “kind of fun,” setting the tone for their discussion.
• [09:08] Justin celebrates improved, less-grating writing and humor.
• [18:50] Technical complaints about current-gen PC performance.
• [20:03] Griffin’s major structural/open world critique.
• [34:33–35:19] Justin rails against gotcha/monetization in Destiny Rising.
• [42:54] Chris addresses “adult” narrative shift in Henry Halfhead.
• [49:07] Silksong progress and boss challenges.
• [57:24] Justin on the stronger “entertainment and storytelling” focus in Alien Earth.

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Final Thoughts

On Borderlands 4

• Improved tone and less in-your-face humor are a plus.
• Gunplay and character abilities feel inventive and exciting, at least early on.
• The open world is a significant misfire: movement is fun until verticality and backtracking kill the pace; navigation feels tedious.
• Technical and optimization issues mar the experience.
• The game remains most fun in co-op, where frustrations can be papered over by social play.

“There’s always something fun and great and pure and good at the heart of the thing ... that is kind of tarnished a bit by the stuff surrounding it.” — Griffin McElroy [26:06]

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What’s Next?

• Next week: likely Baby Steps (new Foddy game), followed by Ghost of Yotei
• More Resties and bracket episode content available for Patreon supporters

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Support & Community

— Patreon.com/thebesties
— New $10 ad-free tier announced

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Transcript

[Griffin McElroy]

I feel like Copies of Borderlands 4 represent to me the. It's such an autumnal game, isn't it? It's an extraordinarily autumn when I play it. The game should come with a slice of banana bread and a pot of chili and just a whole pumpkin. It should come served in a whole pumpkin cornucopia style. So spirited has it gotten me for the autumn season. Why are you fucking laughing at me? Chris, don't act like you don't agree with this association that Borderlands playing Borderland, it should come with a Madden demo disc because it's fall now, baby. What is supporting. You guys are leaving me out to absolutely dry fall.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, no, no. I'm trying to figure, is it because it's association with magic? Like, what is. What about it?

[Griffin McElroy]

Color palette. The color palette of Borderlands is extraordinarily fall. Like, the foliage in this game is crisp and gorgeous.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, I'm starting to, I think I'm starting to see the problem here.

[Griffin McElroy]

What's that?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So when you play the game, does it open with the words Costume Quest? Yes. Got it. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So you probably have caught on too, that Griffin just.

[Justin McElroy]

I will say that in, I feel like in the Borderlands 4 discussion today, I'm going to be carrying the bulk of that. If Griffin has been playing the 2013 release Costume Quest, thinking about the writing.

[Griffin McElroy]

Was funny and so, like, I assumed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It was Borderlands and it kept being like cheese, bacon. And you were like, bacon, cheese.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, you're thinking, that absolutely tears me up.

[Justin McElroy]

Sorry. Okay, Chris, you are thinking now of Death Spank by Ronnie Gilbert. Oh, sorry.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's what I played this week.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, what did you play?

[Griffin McElroy]

Juice.

[Justin McElroy]

What?

[Griffin McElroy]

I played Costume Quest. He played Death Bank. What did you play this week?

[Justin McElroy]

Go. The I learned the art of Go.

[Griffin McElroy]

I thought you were starting the podcast in the weirdest, weirdest way possible.

[Justin McElroy]

In a way, I was interest.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know, I, I, I think we do need Rush. I think we actually do need his.

[Justin McElroy]

His museum of horrors that he brings. Hope he doesn't listen. My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McElroy. I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best games of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

I miss him so much. He's gone. But not forgotten. Because he's not gone. He'll be back next week. I'm sure he had a pressing business to attend to. But you got the three of us and we're going to tell you about some of the latest and greatest in video gaming. It's a grab bag. Chris Plant. Why have we done this?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

There's just too many games. There's too many games for us to talk about, and we're about to get too many more games. So we need to clear out the backlog. We need to grab the bag.

[Griffin McElroy]

Here we go.

[Justin McElroy]

Grab the bag. Even when Frush isn't here, he put the rundown of what we should do in, like, look behind us. See where there was one pair of footprints? That's where Russ was carrying us even when he wasn't here.

[Griffin McElroy]

A lot of people think Russ couldn't pick up all three of us boys and carries at the same time, but he's actually pretty ripped up.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's kind of like an ant. You know, the legs look spindly, but they actually very, very powerful.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, you know what? Now that I'm looking at this, Russ did want us to briefly mention that there is a new $10 Patreon tier. If you are signed up for our Patreon and you'd like to get an ad free experience, well, we are going to be offering that to you on our Patreon. So if that's something that you have wanted, you could head on over to patreon.com thebesties and Russ left us one.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Other housekeeping note, which is he was so excited to talk about Abiotic Factor, but he's not here. So we're gonna talk about that on Restyz next Tuesday. But we have so many other games to talk about. How is it? Dope.

[Griffin McElroy]

Should I check it out? Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Griffin, it is intense.

[Griffin McElroy]

It seems like my shit. It seems like it's gonna absolutely devour my time, and I don't have any of that right now.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What if you had a game that felt pretty much exactly like Half Life, Half Life 2, and then also had all the addictive hooks of every survival game?

[Griffin McElroy]

Absolutely brutal. Please don't do this. Please don't do this.

[Justin McElroy]

Please let me go into. We have to have a commercial break, guys. I'm freaking out. Please, we have to have a place for a break.

[Griffin McElroy]

Go, Trav.

[Justin McElroy]

There is one thing I hate more than anything else. You know what it is? Recording ads alone. And I feel the same way about cooking, you know? Oh, sure. When I'm using hello Fresh. What am I doing here?

[Griffin McElroy]

What show are we on right now?

[Justin McElroy]

So I have trapped. You're Trav. I let Travis be on the besties. He's here for this ad. Oh, wow. Yeah. Congratulations. My dreams have come true. Yeah. Trav, you're finally in the big show. I can tell you're a fan already, Trav. And I'm a big fan of hello Fresh. Trav, you know that they have doubled their menu. You can choose from over 100 options each week and bigger portions that just will keep everyone satisfied. It's true. Have you thought about doing, like, a hello Fresh kind of thing with Russ talking about it? Hello Fresh? Yeah, I tried to get him to do it because then I wouldn't have to, but no, he insisted. He insisted? No. Well, if I was the new Rush Rush sick, this is the kind of heat I would be bringing. I tell you, I learned so much about cooking with HelloFresh doing these kits and going through the meals and through the recipes. It's step by step. You got photos. It's really easy to follow. And you're gonna learn how to cook new stuff, which I think is a great skill, no matter how you make it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Good for gamers.

[Justin McElroy]

Good for gamers and great for kids. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.combesties10fm now to get 10 free meals. I thought that was FMLiKe radio, but it's free.

[Griffin McElroy]

Catch us on the airway.

[Justin McElroy]

And there's a free item for life. One per box with active subscription. Free meals apply as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com besties 10fm get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. So I thought. Listen, I have my whole presentation about the current state of Android handheld gaming ready that I called nibs on for the B segment this week. So I'm gonna move Mr. Hat head up back in.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's perfect. And we'll do all that half head, but sure, whatever.

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, what was that? Okay, when I first read Henry Half Head, it triggered a memory of a game that is not. It has like, hat in the title. Like that, but it's like one of those, like, 2D mystery. Like, very whimsical. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Is it black and white? You're not thinking hat shot?

[Griffin McElroy]

Maybe hat in time. Hat and time is.

[Justin McElroy]

No, it's like a hat shop.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Or like the guy put on Willoughby Hats Time. Jumping hat game.

[Griffin McElroy]

Something something hat box.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Mr. Williams, hat box.

[Justin McElroy]

Something hat box. Hat box.

[Griffin McElroy]

Mr. Sun's hat box.

[Justin McElroy]

Mr. Sun's hat Box. Thank you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay. Okay, good. I'm glad that we did that.

[Griffin McElroy]

That can't have been the show that.

[Justin McElroy]

Is exactly what I was thinking of. God, that's.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, okay, great. That game's fun. Hey Hoops, you have been playing some Borderlands 4 and some Destiny and I'll be honest, I'm curious about one of these, but I'm not going to tell you which. Interesting.

[Griffin McElroy]

I have also been playing Borderlands 4. That is the game that I.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let's start with that one. I think that's a good medium.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, settle Borderlands 4.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How is Borderlands 4?

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, listen. Okay, I wanna tell you, I'm gonna. It was. Here's what I'll say. I texted Griffin last night and I think it was like 10:30 and I was sitting on the, on my shades with my lap laptop in front of me and I texted Griffin, I said, I don't know, man, I think this is kind of fun. Yeah, like we're both playing Borderlands and I texted, I was like, I don't mean I think, I think Brothers 4 is kind of fun. You got to the heart of the.

[Griffin McElroy]

Matter so quickly and that is something that only decades in this industry can provide. It's. It is. It's kind of fun. It's kind of fun, right?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You're doing the same. If I have this right. I'm checking my notes here. You go around various spaces shooting and looting, collecting what could be countless guns, billions. And then people say kind of like naughty, funny things.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is that still a thing? So no, they don't do as much naughty, irreverent, south park style humor. And I fucking appreciate that.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that's the good part. That is the thing that, that's the headline for me is like the, the writing doesn't make me want to die. It doesn't always hit because like obviously a game has about 100 times more jokes than any other media could ever need to have, right? And they need to land at weird time. Comedy and games is really, really hard. So it doesn't always hit. But I will say it is not trying so hard to a point where you want to call your own eyes out.

[Griffin McElroy]

That is what that is. The writing and story are super duper inoffensive and usually that's like a, like a strictly a negative commentary on it thing, but it's way better than it. Like just constantly joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, right? Like open up the fire hose and never ever shut it off and feeling so exhausting. This game doesn't really do that. It doesn't do much in the writing department, but it does not make me want to. It doesn't it's not cringeworthy.

[Justin McElroy]

It's more kind of like silly. Like it's kind of silly and just sort of like my. I'll give you. Let me give you an example. There is one, and I'm gonna be very general about this because like, who cares? But there is one mission that terminates with you finding a experiment gone awry. And it is basically an experiment where they have rigged the heads of one of the large beasts that are roaming the area, rigged it into machines and given it the ability to speak. So the end of this quest is you finding this sentient speaking animal and you are immediately disgusted by it. And the creature's like, ah, I can see my appearance has distressed you. This is understandable. And the gag is like. He is like extremely wise, gross animal head hooked into a machine. But it's like it's silly and it's fun and it's like it's a one off goof and you move on. And it doesn't feel like it needs to like rub it in your face and it doesn't need to like walk you to a big gag or something. And crucially, it's not just a reference to an Internet meme. That was cool two years ago.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. So our buddy Tom Francis, who made Gunpoint and Tactical Breach Wizards game with we love person who writes really funny games. A point that he's made about writing funny games is if you can make it also just serve as even the smallest amount of like either plot or character development. And you can make it where you're just kind of acknowledging what is happening in the world. Because games are deeply silly. Worst case scenario, people don't laugh, still served a purpose and you move on. And it sounds like the thing that you just described sounds so in that zone. This makes me curious.

[Griffin McElroy]

I wanna be careful. Cause I don't think the writing is that good. There's a lot of. And I think that some of it stems from the issue of there's four playable characters and they each have their own.

[Justin McElroy]

Who did you choose out of curiosity? Griffin.

[Griffin McElroy]

I bounced through a few. I ended up on Vex. Vex was sort of.

[Justin McElroy]

I knew it. We always do that.

[Griffin McElroy]

I like the Summoner sort of like type stuff. When there's four possible responses to most of the stuff that like NPCs say. Like it's going to be hard to make all of that hit and make sense with the like canned. Sometimes you get like custom responses based on what characters you're playing. But like it feels like you're storming through the same dialogue with four different voices, four different like lines of dialogue. And I don't know, I think it's hard to make that feel like really, really, really, really strong.

[Justin McElroy]

It's not really. It's a solid double though. And it is not gonna like. It's not gonna get in the way of you enjoying it. Yeah, for sure. It's the headline for me to talk about mechanics a little bit. The four Volt Hunters obviously are different every time.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Just.

[Justin McElroy]

I will talk about Vex because she was the only one I played, but her sort of main ability, I guess you could say, is summoning a duplicate of herself. What's cool is after you choose the summoning, you can decide on the fly if it's going to be a melee focused clone of you or a. Which is more mobile or a gun focused clone of you, which is more stationary. So it's basically like you're choosing a turret you or like a tank combat tanky you that you are on the fly. And you can summon like a few of them into the fight at once. So you are kind of like. And their damage type will mirror whatever damage type you have equipped.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's the only build I have used. Each character like in past games has like three different abilities that you can equip and that is the one of Vex's that I have really, really enjoyed. But I also tried Rafa, who is like the speedy mech type guy. He can pop up these auto turrets on his back, which is not really the type of archetype I usually go for. And Harlow, who throws these big green gravity bombs, who I actually really liked. I just. I found the game to be a lot more. I had trouble with multiplayer and so I was mostly playing it single player. And I like like a pet pet class for that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I mean that's. Did either of you get to play any co op together or is the multiple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it feels like that is the great equalizer for this game where like the writing doesn't need to be totally perfect because the dream scenario is that you're just playing with other people and just grinding and getting more guns. Right?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I think. Well, I mean, that's not how I would typically play one of the. I mean, like, what are you saying? The dream scenario I think is always that. Right. Like for any co op game, it's like that. That would be the ideal. I think that it's pretty chatty. I mean like, if it doesn't. If it doesn't Intend for you to listen that there is a lot of like in your ear dialogue and that kind of thing. It's still a lot of writing in that regard.

[Griffin McElroy]

I was just gonna ask. I've played so much Destiny in Destiny 2 and Borderlands is never something that I've really particularly stuck with, but it's never really hooked for me because I find the process of building the character to be a little bit more. A little simplified, I guess. You're only picking the one ability and then you're kinda going down those trees. This was the first game where I kind of appreciated that because it felt like as you chose your skills or whatever, they were usually a little bit, you know, more build defining like stuff like if you kill an enemy, if you pick this tree, it'll make your skill, you know, recharge that much faster or make your fire rate that much better. But it's like substantial enough upgrades that it feels like pretty. Pretty good.

[Justin McElroy]

It is also interestingly what I dug is that at least with the system that we were using, like it was working in concert with the gunplay rather than like in opposition to it or is an alternative to it. Yeah, it was more supportive rather than like I'm chucking lightning bolts because that to me if I know that I.

[Griffin McElroy]

Can shoot lightning bolts constantly, the guns don't constantly.

[Justin McElroy]

Then like, then I don't care about guns anymore. Right. Like these are like a little bit more supportive.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That that's my question is I always assumed. And again I. I got into these with Borderlands 1 and 2. Not really three much at all. The guns are the build. Like there's so many guns that you want to be focusing on like what you're using in your weapons at any time. Do the gun like do they feel different? What is special about them?

[Justin McElroy]

I would not say the guns are the bill. Like, at least for me I felt like I was going through them so fast that it was not really like building around them.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think end game that becomes more of a thing like you find a legendary that will like keep you for a while as opposed to like, oh, I'm level 14 now. I got to get rid of my level 13 gun because it's not doing as much interesting.

[Justin McElroy]

It is really fun, or at least I thought it was. Is a lot of fun to just kind of cycling through guns. To me I thought was kind of a joy. Like when you see a gun, you see every. All the information about it you could need, including like in world you see how it is better or worse than Your currently equipped item. And you can, with a different button press on the fly, equip it directly to yourself, store it, or send it directly to junk. So, like, looking at it in the world, you can see, oh, this is better with the one I have. And, like, instantly put it on.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And cycling through that. And then to me, I didn't know what was going to happen when I pulled the trigger half the time. And that's really fun. Like, I. I would pull it, I would start pulling the trigger and just start shooting tiny bombs. It's like, whoa, what is this?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And I would do that until I kind of got bored of it. And then I'd switch to something else. And it would be a gun where, like, when. When you reload, you throw it and it becomes a grenade. So every time you reload, you're throwing a grenade and you can shoot it midair. Shoot the gun that you just reloaded and that'll explode bigger for more damage. Like, all the guns are like. Not every gun has that level of silliness. But it is like. But you got to learn. I was not planning on what I was going to do. I would start firing.

[Griffin McElroy]

You get to learn, like, what the different brands of gun feel like and what their kind of properties are. What type of, like, architecture. Like, there's one where they're all, like, charging. You can charge them up and fire multiple bolts, like, at the same time. So when you see one of those, you kind of start to say, like, oh, okay, so this is the one that's kind of more like the, you know, Halo energy pistol or whatever. I think the gunplay is genuinely very, very fun. I am having a better time with this game than I thought I would. There is a lot of structural problems, like, not even talking about performance, which has been pretty bad for me. Have you. What have you mostly been playing it on Juice?

[Justin McElroy]

So I did not use it. I used my laptop. This is the only thing I played it on. I installed it. Well, no, no, sorry. I use on my desktop PC too. Which are both pretty beefy, you know, in terms of, like, gaming.

[Griffin McElroy]

I didn't. My setup was pretty good, like three or four years ago. So I guess maybe this is the sign of the times. But it does not run very well. And I can get it to go at 30 on the ROG ally with, like, everything turned off, every single setting turned off. And with frame gen having to be on, which is not ideal.

[Justin McElroy]

It is. I do feel like games these days, are they really in an era where it feels like they should be getting better at that kind of low end optimization. Doom the Dark Ages was a really good example of this too, where like, rather than it get better, they're actually getting worse.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like getting worse.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We've seen issues with this new Unreal Engine that like games can be really stuttery and that they're having tough launches. Also Borderlands has a history with tough launches. Like, I'm curious what this game looks like in a month once it's been. Hey, cleaned up a bit.

[Justin McElroy]

Can you talk about the structural. Like, what. Cause I think you're probably a little bit further than me.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is my big sort of complaint is it is a more open world structure. It is less like going off and.

[Justin McElroy]

Down in the narrative table setting. You basically Claptrap. There's a really bad guy called the Timekeeper. Timekeeper.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, Timekeeper.

[Justin McElroy]

Timekeeper. And he. There's a resistance against him that's led by claptrap. And Claptrap basically bails on the resistance as soon as he recruits you into it. And now you are the one who is leading this like resistance against the bad guy. So go around and gather a coalition, right? You're coalition building.

[Griffin McElroy]

And at certain sort of junctions you have a choice of where you want to go in the world and which of these three big bosses you want to try and take down first.

[Justin McElroy]

I like the setup, by the way. Structurally that is a setup for me that works for a big open world thing. I enjoy that as a narrative structure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But same the Metazio.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes. I truly, truly do not like the open world of this game. I really, really. It is not like a hub system. There's fast travel. Unlocking fast travel points is kind of annoying because you'll come to a base and it'll be like, you gotta get to the computer at this base and you'll unlock it as a fast travel point. But sometimes the thing you need, like the computer terminal's not there yet because you haven't gotten far enough in the story. That happened to me a couple different times. The nav auto nav beacon thing that you can activate. We'll show you the path you can go on. But it didn't always. It worked half the time for some reason. And there's also. You have a grappling hook, you have a double jump with a glide boost. And it feels pretty good to move around the world, except you will reach a point where it wants you to wind up this mountain path to get to the. To get to the next thing when it's like you've given me a hover bike and a grappling hook and a booster jet. And it's like, oh, this wall is just a little too high to mantle over.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, man. It's like, it feels pretty good. So the glide jump is like super early on. And the way that they handle that is like, if you're elevated at all, you can do a pretty good speedy jump forward, right? So it's kind of like a hover float forward. I'm assuming that you get better distance and speed on that as you go in in the game. But like, they don't get so that like lateral movement in that sense feels good. They don't have good tools. At least I have not found any to the point I am where like upward movement feels good. You know what I mean? So you'll often see like, crossing a hundred yards is not a big deal, but if you see something that's like 10 yards high, it feels like, like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, fuck, I got to go all the way over there to go up this one ramp. Insane.

[Justin McElroy]

It feels like the movement, it really breaks the, like the flow because you're like, well, I need to go find a high point to get to, to get around.

[Griffin McElroy]

I was going through a base up very well. I was going through this base, like trying to find these supplies that have been stolen by the Order, and I missed one at some point. And it's, it's. This situation is such a pain in the ass to like, find the little mission objective things you have to pick up while you're in a big area. Because it just kind of sucks at telegraphing that Stu. Like, and that's not complaining because I can't figure something out. It's complaining that like this little PDA that you had sitting on this one terminal on the fourth floor of this thing. And so you end up on the ground floor because you passed the thing. And it's like, if I want to go back up there and get that, I'm going to have to run all the way through this wonderful maze that they've created instead of using my actual grappling hook that they give me at the first two minutes of the game to go wherever I want with it. It's just such a chore. And it really makes me miss the more siloed off. Like, just let me play this level. Let me go after this one. Boss in this self contained thing. I feel like that stuff has gone to the game's great detriment.

[Justin McElroy]

Griff, I think that you. I'm thinking about something now. And I feel like where they kind of stumbled is the times where they've tried to incorporate the more open world into the mission design. Sure. I'll give you another example. And this is very early on too. I had a mission to go find an egg. Like an exquisite egg. That's what it was. And it was like a good three minute walk from my home base, the Quest Giver.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

And I do the. I go like a three minute walk out and I find the egg and that pops up in my HUD and I kill the guys around it and I have to grapple the egg to pick it up. And then I'm like holding it and it's giving me the option to like, throw it. I'm like, it's a held object. Right. And then the. The quest does not at that point tell me where I need to go next. It doesn't like, update my map. But I do know I need to take this back to the Quest Giver. Right. So I fast travel back and then I. I'm no longer holding this egg. And like, no, there was no mention of this. There was no, like, carry that back to me. And don't like nothing like that. It's just like, oh, you wanted me to. You really just wanted me to walk with this egg, huh?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know who would have never let that happen? Hideo Kojima. He would have said, we will have four good cutscenes that talk about why.

[Justin McElroy]

Timothy Shallow when I tried to fast travel with the egg. Thank you, Living Dead man.

[Griffin McElroy]

So much of it is just so, so poorly executed. And it sucks because there's so much about Borderlands that I, I don't know that I think characterizes the franchise in a good way. That is here. And I have had a lot of fun in the moments where it's gotten out of its way and just let me run around a battlefield dropping little ghosts all around and blasting people with fun guns. But then as soon as it's like, all right, make your way back to this guy. But the fast travel's broken, so you're gonna have to ride your bike through nothing for five minutes. It's like, man, I don't know.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's where the co op for me comes in of, like, a little easier to stomach when you're just hanging out and talking with friends.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying I feel like that is how it has gotten.

[Griffin McElroy]

It frustrates me because I've never really, one of these games has never gotten its hooks in me. And I feel like there's always something really, really fun and great and pure and good at the heart of the thing. That it is kind of tarnished a bit by the stuff surrounding it. So it's frustrating.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I am very curious to play this. I'm gonna download this. Not while we're recording, but afterwards for my Internet speed. I also want to. I usually don't do this, but I should issue a correction on something Justin said. He said that it was living dead man who does the fast travel. And we actually know that it is egg travel man. Who is egg travel man.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So I just wanted to make sure that.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

I saw the corrections department hand you the letter. I thought that was so smooth and seamless.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

People think that that's a waste of money. The five people that I have full time living in my.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, because people say, you guys are never, ever wrong about anything fucking ever. And it's like, yeah, guys, thank you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's why y' all want to do just kind of a short. Catch me up on what's going on with destiny, and then I'll tell you about Henry Halfhead. How about we take a quick break and then we can talk about that?

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Trav]

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[Griffin McElroy]

When you say, we're gonna talk about the state of destiny, we should make it clear that you're not saying Destiny 2. Because I have. Despite the fact that I Still have so many people in that community are.

[Justin McElroy]

Like, this is the patch. This is the patch, baby.

[Griffin McElroy]

We're ready.

[Justin McElroy]

No, Chris, Plant, we're talking about Destiny Rising, a discrete game video game, Destiny Rising.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And I'm definitely not Googling it right.

[Justin McElroy]

Don't do it, don't do it. Why would you Google it? I'm right here, I'm gonna tell you about it. It's the whole conceit of this. Destiny Rising is the first mobile Destiny game on Android. Okay, you can play it.

[Griffin McElroy]

You're fucking crushing so far, dude.

[Justin McElroy]

It is just like Destiny. You get guns, you shoot bad guys. Who are the flood, you know? Okay, basically, you know, basically the flood. You are having a destiny experience that looks like Destiny. It looks great. Actually. I played it on a tablet with a. Well, hold on one second because we'll.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Color this a little bit while Hoops is doing that. Griffin, honest question, is it fucking insane that I have not heard about this? Is that weird?

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't think it's that weird. No. I mean if you're not. I certainly haven't seen it plastered all over the community as much as like a, you know, Diablo when that first launched.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

I have only heard about it when I like, see when I check in on Destiny 2 with some of my content creators who I followed when I was playing the game and wanted, who will be like, here's what's new in this update. I've only sort of seen them talk about it specifically in terms of like, hey, player base of this game is to some extent migrating over to Destiny Rising and they do not have a great solution for that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Interesting. Okay, okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that is the, I mean that is the amount, the extent to which they have captured the feel of Destiny is like, it feels like playing Destiny. I mean, like, I don't know, I was playing on a tablet with a. The game sir G8 plus one of their like retractable doodad kind of guys, you know what I mean? So it's like a full size controller on a nine inch tablet. There's your like your login bonuses. But once you're in and you're playing it, it feels like Destiny. It feels like a Destiny game. Like the, it looks indistinguishable. There's a hub world.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It was not made by.

[Justin McElroy]

No, it was made by NetEase. Okay. And that's kind of, that's kind of the second half story.

[Griffin McElroy]

There's a little Destiny, a little gotcha element.

[Justin McElroy]

If you, if you boot it up and you play it you are going to say, this feels a lot like Destiny. And then you're going to notice that your character has a name. And then you will start to. You realize that, like, not all the weapons are accessible to all the characters. And then you encounter, like, other characters, and then they let you play as those characters. And you're like, well, this is kind of cool. It's a whole different character. And it's rather than you building a, like your guardian, that is your character, you are finding guardians that have a discrete ability set and a weapon set that is specific to them.

[Griffin McElroy]

Interesting. Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. So the first one is Wolf, and that's kind of the character you, like, create. And then you meet other characters, and there are some missions that you have to do as Wolf narratively. And then there are other missions that you don't have to play as Wolf. You can play as these other characters.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is it like an Iron Wolves sort of situation or unrelated Wolf? Okay, never mind.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't know that one guy. There's people that. Ikora Rey is in it, but she's younger, so I think it's like earlier in Destiny Rising, it's like earlier in the timeline, she's one of the collectible characters. Like, you can get her basically. Collect her.

[Griffin McElroy]

When you say collect her, is it through a gotcha sort of draw machine?

[Justin McElroy]

Guys, this is where for me, it's.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

All starting to get.

[Justin McElroy]

I kind of hit a wall. Yeah. So when you start playing Destiny Rising, it will. It very much is like. It feels like a Destiny game on a. On a. In a portable setup. And that's very cool. The big challenge with that is. And this is kind of immutable, but the. The Destiny experience, if I don't feel like it's just necessarily maps great to like the impulse gaming of like, I have two minutes and I'm just going to game. Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Because right.

[Justin McElroy]

I. You know, there. First of all, you gotta have online access. Second of all, like, you get. There's a login procedure and then like, what. What mission was I doing? So, like, you know, whether or not that you have like a setup where you know you're gonna be in front of an anti.

[Griffin McElroy]

The idea of sitting for five hours on a Saturday night with a group of like five Welsh strangers who've been best friends their whole life and like, cranking through Last Wish is. It seems tough to imagine in that format.

[Justin McElroy]

So that. That is kind of immutable. The. The other thing is, the thing with the. The characters and stuff that is going to be. I mean, for Me, the thing that bumped with Destiny. And the reason that I lost track of Destiny really is anytime I tried to go back, I would be so stuck trying to remember all the different currency and the systems of value and, like, what is this worth? What is that worth? What quest was on, whatever. And I feel like, to me, when I got hit with those first few walls of, like, gotcha garbage, I mean, to me, that's what it feels like. If you're into Gotcha games, it is probably a lot more parsable to you. But I sent a screenshot to, like, I showed Griffin a screenshot, and both him and Travis were like, whoa. Like, it stings the eyes. The amount of like. So now we've gone from a system where, like, they are kind of, like, intentionally maybe obfuscating those value systems because they don't want you to know or be thinking about how much things are costing. So it's like, to me, more of the stuff that alienated about Destroyer. There's, like, more stuff to keep track of. Like that. More timers, more. Everything's glowing, everything's glittering. You know, it's that casino aesthetic that so many Gotcha games have of, like, push this, they want you to hit this. It's not even possible, really. Like what you can and can't have access to right then, right? Because they want the distinction between doing it for free and doing it for money to be so faint, you know, that you don't notice that you're doing it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And this is becoming more and more the norm in free to play games. I feel like every time I hop into one of these, it's great for me as somebody who's very fine playing a game for 10 or 20 hours and feeling like I got my money's worth. Because increasingly they will let you have that window entirely and get you hooked in and then be like, oh, now here's the real.

[Griffin McElroy]

But that seems so weird to me because everything in that market has. It feels like, funneled into the same exact business model for all of these free to play games, regardless of scale or genre or whatever. And once one of those. Once you see the shape of one of those, because it got you fucking good. I feel like it really stops you from as soon as you see it, you know, to recognize it and be.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Like, mine was so, like, zenless. Zone 0 was my. My big awakening for that, where I was like, holy shit, this game's incredible. How did they make this a free game? And then after, I think it was like the 15th hour, I was like, oh, that's how. Yeah. Once you are fully committed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you going to keep playing?

[Justin McElroy]

I, I can't. I, I, it's just that those systems to me are not, to me, it's about like, what is in, like what is a fixed resource for you. And like, I don't have the time to learn those systems. Like, I, I just would rather play. I don't really have the time to engage with that level of like, I already feel like RNG was kind of the most frustrating aspect of Destiny in a lot of ways for me at least. I like the parts that were methodical. I like the parts that were challenging, but I never really liked the parts that were random. And this feels like a lot more of that and a lot more like demanding of your time to keep up with all the different, you know, it feels like I, I don't know, I feel like I went through the arc with this game that I went through with Marvel Snap, but Marvel Snap took me several months and this took a few hours, you know, where it was like, oh God, I'm over. This is too much. I can't keep track of this anymore. Like, it's too much for me. And this got there like so quick.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I got some great news for you, which is if you are just craving another netease game, they publish a lot of games like this, but every once in a while they publish a game that you can just buy and play. And earlier this year they released a game called Rusty Rabbit. And I would like to read the synopsis to you from Wikipedia, please. The game takes place in a post apocalyptic world where humans have long abandoned earth, leaving it to rabbits who have developed a civilization where the books of Peter Rabbit are seen as holy. And you play as a rabbit who is a badass and wears a sick jacket and basically is Mr. Triller. Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

All right. Heck yeah. He's old man.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Video games are back in a big way. Griffin, you have any other thoughts on Destiny before I tell you about Henry Halfhead?

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, I didn't play Destiny Rising. I watched Justin play it.

[Justin McElroy]

And I would also say that I think the, the fact that this is only on Android right now is probably limiting the conversation.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I will say though, if you're someone who has gotten one of those Android gaming handhelds, this is a great app. There's not a ton of stuff on Android. This is a great application of that overabundance of hardware that you have.

[Griffin McElroy]

I want to hear about Henry Half Head, please.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Henry Halfhead is also a co op Video game that I played solo. But unlike Borderlands and Destiny, it is a novella of a video game. It is two hours, like tops. It knows exactly what it wants to be, down to the title. You are Henry and you are half of a head. Specifically the top half of it. From the tippy top down to the nose. And then it just ends. That's all of the head and the.

[Griffin McElroy]

Game is all you really need, man. I've always said the rest of head is just sort of superfluous.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think that's true if like the entire bottom of head below nose could be also mouth.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cause I would hate to lose. Yeah, sure. Mouth does.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Where you just kinda like lay on top of things and just suck em up.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like a little vacuum kissing the ground all the time. That's gross, man.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's gross. Along with being a top of a head, Henry also has basically the Mario Odyssey power to zip into every object, effectively every object in the world. So it could be like, you wanna hop into a chair. Sure, you can go for it. You wanna zip into a color pe laying around, do that. You can even doodle on the ground. You can hop on a match and then you can light a candle that you could also hop into. Or there are like puzzle pieces maybe lying around. You could hop into them and put them together.

[Justin McElroy]

Cute.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

There is no like point system though. You unlock like hats, because that's about as much as you want to wear. And then the motivation is the story, which is. I feel bad saying this because the person is either British or Australian, but has kind of that like beginner's guide sort of thing where it's like, we're going to narrate a story while you kind of like screw around in this space. And the story is just the story of an entire life. So you start as a baby and you are in. It's kind of to really sound like an asshole. It's like a Brechtian set. There's no actual world that you're in. It's just kind of like a big white space. And then you know what rooms you're in by the props and furniture that are in it. So you awake in a cradle and there are like baby toys on the ground. And you solve these kind of like very, very, very simple physics puzzles in that space. Like connect the puzzle pieces, right. Climb to the top of a clothes drawer. And then once you do that, poof. A door appears in the middle of this empty space. And beyond that door is also new furniture that conveys a new room. So maybe It's a kitchen or maybe it is your parents bedroom. And each time you go into these new spaces, you solve a few more physics based puzzles. You get a little bit more narration about Henry. And your character also gets older each time. So you are going from like basically cradle to older. Older without getting into too much spoiling. It is unbelievably simple to the point that at first I was like, oh, this is a game for babies. Not like as a pejorative. Like quite literally, this is a game where I could play it with a very young child and we could learn about objects. Basically like, oh, this is a candle and we get to play. And here's what it's like to draw around the room. And here are these little safe spaces where you can learn about all these different, very simple objects and play with them. But that's not the case. I mean, you can and definitely should play it with a little kid, I think. But where the story goes ends up being much more adult. And the idea.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, is an adult where like, okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So yeah, what's Henry doing?

[Justin McElroy]

Thank goodness you're here. Thank goodness you're here. Looks like a game for babies. And then they throw a secret peen in there when you are in no way ready for it. There's full peen in that game and it is not for babies. So is there full peen in Henry half head?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, it's not.

[Justin McElroy]

Because he became Henry half head. Full dong.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, no, no, no, no, no, there's not, there's not. I didn't unlock a secret full dong. But that could, you know, that could come at any point. Um. Mm.

[Justin McElroy]

They're just peening. I'm just saying in here they just have a penis.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, no, no, no, I get it. It's not adult that way. It's more adult. Like at first the narration is like Henry got out of his bed and he played with his toys. And then later it's like Henry is at work and it's extremely boring and he has no sense of self worth. And you're like, oh, Jesus. Okay, now I see. Now I see.

[Justin McElroy]

Now I'm playing adult themed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Adult themed. Yes, it is a game. I wish I had played co op for that reason. Because again, it is so simple that I think the pleasure is discovering what all the little objects do. And if you can do that with a friend, it's like, whoa, I can take control of this. Look at what the hell I am.

[Justin McElroy]

What is co op?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. What's. What's it look like?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Cooperative. The exact same There are now two Henry half heads and you're playing the exact same game. The narration is still playing over it. It's just two people solving the little physics puzzles at the same time. But again, because the game is almost entirely about discovery of what happens when you control these different objects, I think that that's more pleasurable if you have someone to share it. So at one point you can you find a cake relatively early on and it's like, oh, I can embody the cake. Cool. Oh, when I hop the cake off of the platter and throw it on the floor, it creates a chocolate stain anywhere it goes. Oh, that's a cool nice surprise. Oh, if I embody the kitchen knife and I swing at the cake, I can chop it into individual pieces. Oh, now I can embody those pieces and I can eat the pieces. Is any of that actually doing anything towards a greater goal? Absolutely not. Is it like fun little surprises all the way down? For sure. Which again I think is just more fun with another person.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Alone I was like, oh, that's cute. I kind of kept, you know, that the knowing laugh, like uh huh. It was like that the whole way through.

[Griffin McElroy]

I like that cute laugh, Chris.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Thank you. Thank you. It's good. I like it. I think there's a sort of.

[Justin McElroy]

How.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do I say that I truly do not mean this in as negative a way as it will sound. There's a person who likes those co op games that we don't like where they have stories that are like, you have like some mild existential awareness by the end where it's like, hey, you learned some human drama while playing a video game and that really resonates for them to have that experience to do something that is like tactile and play and then also like teaches them what you know, like a pretty like standard short story would teach them. If you are that sort of person, you will love this game, the story is solid and you will come away from it with that little glean of oh, my time on earth is precious. So I think you should chase that if you're looking for a two hour version of that sort of game to play with a friend. This is 100% it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is this also a forewarning that if you're the type of player who just wants to play a silly game where you make a man's head jump around and turn into cake that it's going to get, it will have existential messages.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think what I would do is I would just turn the volume off if you want that you can still have a great time. You can still be doing all sorts of silly things with that little half head.

[Griffin McElroy]

Love it.

[Justin McElroy]

You know who I don't want to turn the volume off on our beloved listeners. You know, I like to hear from them. Like give me an example. Wow. This is from Connor. Connor says usually I scoff when Russ is like don't tell me anything because I'm the opposite. I love to get on the hype train but still discover stuff like in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Went into Silksong and I'm floundering and haven't made progress in days. But I've also found so much stuff that I've been absolutely shook by. I resented my scoff. This shit is fire and you should look up guides if you can't help it. Wow. Connor took us on a whole journey there. Connor.

[Griffin McElroy]

But now people know. This is how Russ gets his hooks in you. This is how Russ corrupts your now. I feel the same way. I've tried to stay fairly guide free on Silksong except for a couple of bosses who were real pieces of shit. I've tried to but I'm also. I'm so scared with this game that I'm going to pass a point of no return where I will lose access to the stuff that came before it. And I don't know that that's an entirely justified fear. I think it's just a scary game that's got my got my paranoia going overdrive.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This one is from Forest Dude. I just wanted to thank Griffin for sharing Caso. I'm an aging skater who's always looking for fun skate media to consume when my bones and muscles tell me to stay on the couch and away from the park. I was really into Vice's King of the Road series but they cancelled it a while ago. Kaso has the same kind of skate contest meets game show vibe that is just a blast to watch. So thanks Griffin. Keep it gnarly and keep hitting those Benny Bongas and Casparanas. And don't go Mongo. Yes, those are real skate terms.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, clearly I know those are real skate terms. Why would you think I would need you to clarify that those are skate terms? Because I know them clearly.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I just pulled off a Christ air.

[Griffin McElroy]

That'S now you're showing your head too much. No Caso rules. I love any show where people execute their remarkable talents in the company of other people who have also invested their entire lives into the developing those specific talents. That shit's good. Especially when it's silly like a, you know, grind this rail that does a loop de loop like. Sure, man. Fuck yeah. All day.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love it. I love it. Hey, should we dig into some honorable mentions?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, what do you got? What else have you guys made time for this week?

[Griffin McElroy]

I've been playing a lot more silksong. I don't know how much we want to sort of expound about it, nor do I know how much.

[Justin McElroy]

How has your experience evolved?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, pretty fucking good, man. I've got about 32 hours in the game, I want to say, and I am in sort of the last leg of it. It seems like where it's like now you can go around and have pretty open access to whatever and now it's just go find the stuff. And it provides some ways to help you do that if you are a completionist. Some of these last few bosses and sort of gauntlets have gotten so hard that I feel like my progress through the game has slowed pretty dramatically. And it requires a level of investment of time investment to get in that flow state to learn all of the boss's different attacks. So you know how to respond to it. And that is kind of tough to promise it or any game all the time for me these days. But it's still just like God, it's going places that are so remarkable. The writing is really, really, really strong. Like really extremely strong. There's been exchanges between Hornet, who they develop as a character so well, and other people that I've been. I don't know really. I have really, really admired. And I think it is a very special game. Just like Hollow Knight before it. And I'm definitely gonna keep pounding away.

[Justin McElroy]

Did you have any issues? I wish in the text that it was a little bit. I agree with you about the writing. I wish it was easier to immediately tell who was speaking.

[Griffin McElroy]

There's little glyphs on top and Hornets will have the two ears coming up. It is. It is hard to. I do wish that they surfaced that maybe a little bit better.

[Justin McElroy]

But that is 10 of the letters or something would be appreciated.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, no, I think it rules. I still don't know if I want to 100% it. I feel like I'm going to be playing for quite a bit longer if I do that. I've been doing a ton of shit and I found a bunch of stuff. But if I really wanted to clean up the map. I don't know if that's something I can give the game right now. But I think I'm Getting close to seeing it through. And I think it's really fantastic.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love it. Hoops, what have you been up to?

[Griffin McElroy]

Gosh, I play a lot of games.

[Justin McElroy]

You know what's good is Alien Earth.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Alien Earth is really good. I started watching because I feel like Russ and I, and, I don't know, plan. I don't remember if you go in this camper like, Russ and I tend to lock ourselves in these, like, Noah Hawley TV show prisons where, like, no one else is watching, but we have to be the ones who are carrying the torch. Like, we are watching these things where it doesn't feel like there's a huge conversation about it. I think that I just am not exposed. I have realized that I am not in any way exposed to the conversation about tv I don't know about. I have no clue. So I. But I picked up Alien Earth because I like Noah Hawley shows.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I loved no Holly shows until there was a very final turn in a season of Fargo that was so preposterous. I was like, I can't do it. I can't. I can't keep doing this. I can't keep falling in love. But I did check in on Alien Earth because I was like, I gotta know, what's the twist? What is. Noah Hawley's show is always about something. It's not just gonna be about aliens. And, boy, howdy, was I excited to see that. This is a show about how very young social media CEOs prey on even younger populations to basically make their riches and ruin the world. And I don't know if it keeps going that direction, but that is where it is heading fast in the first episode or two. And I am very curious about it.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. The premise, I think, is so cool and gripping and, like, what is the premise?

[Griffin McElroy]

I love Alien, and I wanna watch this show. I just haven't.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's wild.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, so here's the setup. You know that there are corporations that.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Are vying for Raylan Yutani, etc.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And all those. So there's a new one called Prodigy. And what Prodigy is. Their big focus for the past 10 years has been their research focus. Secret, super secret. Has been they are. Rather than synths, which are androids, or cyborgs, which are fusion. They want to transfer human consciousness into synthetic bodies to make hybrids. Right. And these hybrids would be super strong, super fast, almost invulnerable, but they would have the mind of a human. What they discover is that adult minds reject it and that only children's minds will make the process work. So they find kids who are terminally ill and offer their parents a chance to be transferred into these synthetic bodies in a secret program where like, no family has any idea what has happened to them, etc. Right. So the first girl that this happens to, she begins going by the name Wendy. And there is a. An overarching Neverland theme that is like being projected onto the. To the kids and the whole story really. But basically this first girl has a brother who she loves very much. And she continues to monitor with her like, you know, abilities. And there is a crash, a crash of a spaceship on the planet that she lives on, which is the planet that the story. That's the Earth from the title. And there's a crash there and she realizes that her brother, who is a medic for the Prodigy Corporation, is being sent to help at the crash site. So the girl goes to the person who runs it and says, send us. Send me and the rest of the Lost Boys. We're ready. We. We want to go help at this crash. CEO thinks that since the realizes that since the ship is Weyland Yutani and it is loaded with trillions of a trillion dollars worth of like research, he's gonna. He's gonna send in the Lost Boys to get it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, cool.

[Justin McElroy]

That's his reasoning. And she's going in to save her brother. And you'll never guess what is on the ship. Griffin.

[Griffin McElroy]

It better not be Zemo Norfs or I'm gonna lose.

[Justin McElroy]

Dude, it's fucking Zemo Norfs. It is chockablock with Zemo Norf.

[Griffin McElroy]

I am so sick of these guys in there.

[Justin McElroy]

And it's the worst. It's the worst possible thing. Cuz they're not in space. In space no one can give a shit because it's on Earth now, man.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't want changes up on Earth.

[Justin McElroy]

I live here.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

No way, dude. Yeah, morphs. Maybe in Mars.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, sure. Maybe even that's a little too close for comfort.

[Justin McElroy]

But not on Earth.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, it sucks.

[Justin McElroy]

The CEO is greedy and he wants. Basically he wants to take the xenonorphs for himself and doesn't want. And it is corporate warfare to try to control the. So this is why it is a story and not an isolated like scary ship experience. Scary ship experience. The ship comes to Earth quite literally. Like it's pretty direct here is how it intersects.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm pulling a fresh here. I don't want a reaction. I'm just gonna say the thing out loud. But what really got Me, by the.

[Justin McElroy]

Way, that was a lot of story. It was made the first half of the first episode.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, okay.

[Griffin McElroy]

They Chuck through it.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I am skeptical of brand mashups, especially after all the Marvel stuff. If Predator does not show up at the end of this show, I will be crushed. I'm just putting that out there because there are all sorts of aliens on this ship. And then there's that new Predator movie coming out where it is about the Predator just hanging out with a synth that is Weyland Yutani, which like they are building towards that. Like, what if we made a high end Alien versus Predator that I need in my life. I am not ashamed to be that comic.

[Griffin McElroy]

Alien loves Predators.

[Justin McElroy]

Alien and Predator now get along.

[Griffin McElroy]

Heart's Predator.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like it's a sequel series to Bob loves Osceola.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Alien loves Predator.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's great. It's great.

[Justin McElroy]

I really. It is very. Okay. Noah Hawley shows. I'm still using that as a subgenre, but I feel like, you know, so like that's like Fargo and Legion and you know, it's a very thinky kind of tv. Right. And I don't mean that in a complimentary way or a pejorative way. It just is.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's the style.

[Justin McElroy]

It's the style. And I feel like this is. Again, I hate terms like this, but it is the most effective way of stating it. There is less pretension here and more entertainment and storytelling and it doesn't ask you to marinate in themes so much as it does touch on the themes and then moves on to more action where like, great. Some of the shows got very experiential, got very sort of like especially Legion got very abstract in a. In a way that's very bracing and cool to see but like not always the most engaging to watch. This is not that. This is highly entertaining, super engaging. Really cool uses, I will say, by the way, I know like Mega Corporation mergers are an absolute nightmare and are ruining the world. There is a cool. It is a. There are a couple instances where they have folded in intellectual property that is owned by the Disney Corporation in a way that makes the story feel actually a little bit more approachable and real. Like, rather than just using like ancient references. There's like Ice Age is a recurring like tableau that is almost in contrast to the Neverland theme. Right? Like, Ice Age is like a more modern take that the sister and the brother watched obsessively. So it's almost like a little sub language they share and they actually show.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Original Peter Pan. The Disney Peter Pan. Which is wild.

[Justin McElroy]

There's like. Yeah, but it's like that really grounds it in a way that makes it feel really relatable and real. But it is.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think it's just 20th century and not Disney. And I want to make that explicitly clear.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Which is owned by Disney. Well, okay, no, I know what you mean. You're talking. You're talking about the old world when you know there were. There were many warring factions. We live in the newest one.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm just saying. Referring to Ice Age as a Disney classic. Sin actual Walt himself loves the world.

[Justin McElroy]

We live in now. This is the world we find ourselves in. I know it's a 20th Century Fox project, but whatever.

[Griffin McElroy]

Growing up, I just.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

There was.

[Justin McElroy]

Did I bury the lead? I did bury the lead. Who leads? The Lost Boys. It's the only adult synthesis played by Timothy Oliphant with bleach blonde hair.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, baby.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you. I will fucking.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Don't mind if I do.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, wait, he knows all the world's. He's learned all of the world's philosophy. Yeah, thanks. I'll take it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Thanks.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you. How many you got?

[Griffin McElroy]

You got anything, Kreius?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I got a thing real quick. The other night I went and saw the Invincible Czars perform a live backing to the Phantom of the Opera, the original silent film, the Phantom of the Opera. And if you are looking for a very kick ass thing to do during Halloween season, I strongly recommend going and checking this out at your local theater. The music is much more modern. Is it a tour and kind of synthy? It's a tour. The Invincible Czars are a band from Austin and they started doing this at the Alamo Village a long, long time ago.

[Griffin McElroy]

And now, of course, I mean this in the nicest way possible. They very much look like a band from Oscar.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, 100% extraordinary.

[Griffin McElroy]

Extremely.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And yeah, they go around and they're doing this and Nosferatu. The original Nosferatu.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, that's sick.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And just a heads up like they're very early in the tour. So if you live in like Arizona, Arizona, Virginia, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Ontario, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, or of course Texas, they're going to all those different places. So I'll include a link in the thing. Also there is a online version of it. Like you can just watch. Pay like six bucks and watch it. But I really recommend going and seeing this in person. It is so transcendent. Honestly, like, it really is amazing to go watch a live band perform a score for a Silent movie because it makes silent movies work. You get how people would go and see these things and be like, just wholly entertained because it's so loud and thrilling. And the score that they have is absolutely killer. So it is a great way to spend a night.

[Griffin McElroy]

This seems so cool. I want to do this.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We should do it. Movies. They're back.

[Justin McElroy]

Movies.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay, I'm going to wrap up really quick on the stuff that we have talked about. We Talked about Borderlands 4, Destiny Rising, Henry Halfhead, Silksong, of course, Alien Earth and the Invincible Czars. Performance of Phantom of the Opera. Anything I missed in there?

[Justin McElroy]

Nope.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Cool. Hoops. You want to take us out?

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, thanks so much for listening to our podcast that we do here. We hope you've enjoyed it and we'll come back. What are we doing next week?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, next week we have, like two options. I think what we're probably gonna do, I think don't hold us to this just yet. I think we're gonna do baby steps next week and then we're going to.

[Griffin McElroy]

Do the new Foddy Jam, the new.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Foddy game from the creator of qwop. And then we're gonna do Ghost of Yotei after that. I think that's.

[Griffin McElroy]

I think that's about it. The week after that. Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Great.

[Justin McElroy]

Wow, there's a lot of great games, man.

[Griffin McElroy]

Crazy, man. Hey, we got a patreon. Patreon.com thebesties if and become a supporter of our shows, you get access to all the episodes of the Resties and our monthly bracket battle episodes. And plus we have this new $10 a month tier where you can get episodes from the main feed without advertisements. If that is something that you want, that is. [e-mail] thebesties you can join the ranks of great folks like your good buddy Brandon. I think I've reached a threshold where I need to permanently zoom in the text on screens.

[Justin McElroy]

Welcome, welcome.

[Griffin McElroy]

Stuvius, Tyler, Ultimate Danny 5000. And get Stiggy with it. Thank you all so much. Patreon.com TheBesties Perfect.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you all so much for listening. Be sure and join us again next week for the besties because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game games besties?