The "Something Old, Something New" Week in Gaming

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Besties – "Something Old, Something New" Week in Gaming

Release Date: November 15, 2024

Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick

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1. Introduction & Episode Overview

The episode kicks off with the hosts engaging in light-hearted banter about Bowser and their children's fears, setting a playful tone for the discussion. Shortly after, Justin McElroy formally welcomes listeners to the Besties podcast, describing it as "a video game club, and just by listening, you, my friend, have become a member" (03:00). He announces a shift in their planned agenda, moving away from discussing Mario Brothersship to focus on other exciting gaming topics.

2. Windblown: A New Roguelite Adventure

Hosts Discuss: Russ Rocha, Justin McElroy, Griffin McElroy, Chris Plant

Timestamp: 07:08 – 25:23

Windblown is introduced as an early access game developed by the creators of Dead Cells. The hosts delve into its mechanics, highlighting its isometric roguelite structure reminiscent of Hades but infused with elements from Dead Cells. Justin notes, "The structure of this is so regimented. I'm almost starting to feel like it's a genre unto itself" (07:26).

Key Points:

• Gameplay Mechanics: Emphasis on dual-wielding weapons and layered power-ups. Justin elaborates on the dynamic combat flow, stating, "if you string together enough attacks with one weapon, it incentivizes you to flip to the other weapon and you do a special more powerful attack" (12:22).

• Multiplayer Features: The game supports up to three players, allowing for cooperative runs. Justin praises the multiplayer balance, mentioning, "it's really smart in terms of how do you balance for two players who are unequally yoked" (15:07).

• Progression & Upgrades: The hosts discuss the meta-upgrades and their impact on gameplay. Ross comments on the weapon systems, "The crossbow fires on a beat... keeping a combo going" (20:01).

Critiques:

• Justin expresses concerns about the game's smoothness potentially reducing the sense of impact during progression: "I worry that it's not impactful enough to keep me engaged with it" (21:45).

• Chris highlights minor frustrations with the game's aesthetic, feeling it resembles "a canceled MOBA" (23:05).

Despite some reservations, the hosts acknowledge Windblown's polished state in early access and its potential to evolve into a standout title upon full release.

3. Dragon Quest 3 HD 2D Remake: Nostalgia Meets Modern Design

Hosts Discuss: Justin McElroy, Griffin McElroy, Ross Rocha, Chris Plant

Timestamp: 29:06 – 43:18

The conversation shifts to the highly anticipated Dragon Quest 3 HD 2D Remake. Justin and Griffin provide historical context, explaining that the original Dragon Quest 3 was a monumental release in Japan, introducing party creation mechanics that significantly impacted the JRPG genre.

Key Points:

• Visuals: The remake utilizes Square Enix’s "Octopath" style, combining flat sprites with dynamically lit 3D environments, referred to as "HD 2D" (31:10).

• Gameplay Enhancements: Hosts appreciate the streamlined mechanics, such as fast travel and customizable party tactics. Griffin mentions, "You can really kind of interact with it as much as you want to" (33:32).

• Narrative & Design: The remake maintains a lighter narrative focus compared to modern RPGs, appealing to those who prefer gameplay over extensive storytelling. Ross remarks, "It's a good thing for me. Yeah, sure." (34:05).

Insights:

• Chris shares his enthusiasm for the game’s design, emphasizing the freedom it offers players: "You could play the whole game like you would with a notebook, turn off or ignore the waypointing and spend the entire time actually having an adventure" (37:07).

• Griffin praises the game's accommodation for various playstyles and quality-of-life improvements, making it accessible yet engaging for both new and veteran players.

Conclusion: The hosts unanimously recognize the remake's potential to both honor the legacy of the original and attract a new generation of players, making it a strong contender for Game of the Year.

4. Mario and Luigi Brothership: Refining a Classic

Hosts Discuss: Russ Rocha, Ross Rocha, Justin McElroy, Griffin McElroy

Timestamp: 45:32 – 47:30

Mario and Luigi Brothership is evaluated as Nintendo's attempt to return to the combat foundations of earlier Mario RPGs like Super Mario RPG. Russ critiques the game, noting:

"They keep having to reinvent these standalone random ass cloud people that no one cares about... less interesting characters."

Key Points:

• Combat System: The game refines traditional turn-based combat, stripping away experimental mechanics in favor of what worked well in previous installments.

• Pacing & Story: While the combat is praised, the pacing is criticized for being "incredibly slow," and the narrative doesn't effectively engage players due to underdeveloped characters and repetitive storytelling.

Conclusion: Although the combat mechanics receive positive feedback, the overall experience falls short in capturing the charm and engagement of its predecessors, leading to disappointment among the hosts.

5. Redacted: Tactical Roguelike with a Competitive Edge

Hosts Discuss: Justin McElroy, Ross Rocha, Griffin McElroy, Chris Plant

Timestamp: 48:23 – 51:55

Redacted is presented as a tactical roguelike inspired by Hades, featuring competitive elements where players race against AI characters to escape a prison.

Key Points:

• Gameplay Mechanics: Players must navigate obstacles and compete against AI rivals, with abilities to hinder opponents strategically.

• Art Style: The game boasts a cel-shaded, comic book aesthetic, setting it apart from similar titles.

Insights: Justin highlights the competitive aspect, saying:

"You are gaining information about your competitors... easier to fight them because you know their weaknesses." (50:43)

Conclusion: Redacted stands out for its unique blend of tactical gameplay and competitive racing, making it an intriguing option for fans of the genre seeking something fresh.

6. UFO 50 Collection: A Retrospective Dive into Classic Games

Hosts Discuss: Griffin McElroy, Ross Rocha, Justin McElroy, Chris Plant

Timestamp: 55:20 – 60:01

The hosts explore the UFO 50 collection, which features 50 classic games spanning various genres. Griffin shares his enthusiasm for the collection, particularly enjoying titles like Magic Garden and Barbuda.

Key Points:

• Gameplay Variety: The collection includes diverse games, each requiring different strategies and skills. Griffin explains:

"It's like a conversation between you and the real developers and fictional developers of these games." (60:01)

• Community Engagement: Griffin appreciates the engaged community that contributes strategies and cheat codes, enhancing the overall experience.

Conclusion: UFO 50 offers a nostalgic yet varied gaming experience, appealing to purists and new players alike who appreciate the depth and history of classic games.

7. Additional Game Highlights

Hosts Quickly Mentioned:

• Pokemon TCG Pocket: A streamlined, mobile-friendly version of the Pokémon Trading Card Game, emphasizing quick matches and accessible gameplay (53:11 – 54:27).

• Karate Survivor: A melee-focused take on the Vampire Survivors formula, set against 1980s karate action movie aesthetics, featuring combo-based combat and environmental interactions (66:31 – 72:03).

• Hangover Square: A noir film discussed briefly, celebrated for its setting during Guy Fawkes Day and intriguing narrative elements (61:03 – 62:19).

• Jackbox Survey Scramble: The latest entry in the Jackbox series, focusing on survey-based, single-word answer games that evolve with community participation (66:35 – 69:54).

• Dragon Age Valgard: Reviewed by Justin as a game with extensive content but diminishing engagement, critiqued for its endings and choice impacts (64:05 – 67:32).

8. Upcoming Topics & Wrap-Up

As the episode concludes, the hosts express excitement for future discussions, teasing an upcoming deep dive into the highly anticipated game Echo Point Nova. They encourage listeners to subscribe and mention their Patreon supporters, ensuring continued support for the podcast's growth.

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Notable Quotes

• Justin McElroy (07:26): "The structure of this is so regimented. I'm almost starting to feel like it's a genre unto itself."

• Ross Rocha (21:45): "I worry that it's not impactful enough to keep me engaged with it."

• Griffin McElroy (33:32): "You can really kind of interact with it as much as you want to."

• Justin McElroy (50:43): "You are gaining information about your competitors... easier to fight them because you know their weaknesses."

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Besties, the hosts provide an in-depth look at both nostalgic and contemporary games, offering insightful critiques and enthusiastic endorsements. From the polished roguelite Windblown to the classic-modern fusion of Dragon Quest 3 HD 2D Remake, and the diverse UFO 50 collection, listeners are treated to a comprehensive analysis of what's hot in the gaming world this week. The conversation balances technical gameplay discussions with personal anecdotes, making it engaging for both seasoned gamers and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Ross Rocha]

How do I make my son not afraid of Bowser?

[Griffin McElroy]

Golly. That's the question.

[Justin McElroy]

Why is your son right?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You got to put him up in like something like cute. Like, you know, you gotta maybe like have him coming out of a birthday cake. I think that's probably good.

[Griffin McElroy]

That would scare the kind of like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sharpen his teeth maybe.

[Ross Rocha]

Sorry, we talking about my son? Are we talking about Bowser?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Cover him in tomato.

[Justin McElroy]

Make your son better prepared to fight Bowser. Give your son the tools. If your son fears Bowser, there's some. There's a weakness in him, Russ. You need to replace it with strength.

[Griffin McElroy]

If your child, or really anyone's child came upon Bowser in the wild, maybe it's a good thing for them to be scared of Bowser. He's a horrible dragon man who wants to burn you with fire, crush you with his stomp. The only reason he scale you on the spikes.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, the little plumber is allowed to talk shit because he knows where there's stars that can give him an incredible boost at any moment. You don't have that. Bowser would rip you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Rip your body in half.

[Justin McElroy]

Rip him in half.

[Griffin McElroy]

And these fucking.

[Justin McElroy]

He would probably consume you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Like, you would be living Bowser's inside story, but not in like a fun truth way. You would be departing.

[Justin McElroy]

No, in the way that you would merge with his amino acids.

[Griffin McElroy]

You would be fucking killed. You would become more Bowser. And guys, I'm sick of all these Mario RPGs trying to make him seem like a clumsy. The fucking movie is bullshit for so many reasons.

[Justin McElroy]

Non canon.

[Griffin McElroy]

To make him seem like a little. Like a fucking oaf and not a killer dragon man. I think is irresponsible.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Honestly. I think they've made us so focused on being Bowser's inside story.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Because they don't want us to think about what happens when you become Bowser's outside story.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's really good, Chris. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Not a damn lick of sense.

[Justin McElroy]

No. Not even with a sort of MC Escher esque Lewis, Carolyn, sort of like jumps of logic. Like, even if the caterpillar had been like sometimes in Minnie and Max, you go inside the Mario.

[Griffin McElroy]

My son is afraid of Doug Bowser.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, reasonable. Yeah. Fair.

[Justin McElroy]

My kid's afraid of Bowser from Sha La La. My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McIlroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know the best game of the Week.

[Ross Rocha]

My name is Ross Rocha. I know the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

Welcome, friends, to the Besties, where we talk about the latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment. It's a video game club, and just by listening, you, my friend, have become a member. On this week's episode, we have a twofer.

[Ross Rocha]

We have a bit of a curveball.

[Justin McElroy]

A bit of a pivot.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, a bit of a pivot. Because we kind of told people what we got. We were gonna do Mario Brothership. Mario and Luigi Brothership. I played some of it. Griffin, did you play at all?

[Griffin McElroy]

No. No. Yeah, I did not.

[Ross Rocha]

In my experience, I don't think it would have been made for the best conversation. So we kind of pivoted a little bit.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I gn 5 out.

[Ross Rocha]

Ign give it a 5, which I think is a little harsh based on what I played. But they did play the whole game, so maybe. I don't know. But I just wanted to give you some background.

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, Russ, can I just say brief time out? It's. So you've been in this business for literally, I mean, 15, 20 years, right?

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

The idea that you would still, at this point, as a man and a father who has been in this industry so long, the fact that you would still do a side swipe, like 5 out of 10 for the new Mario Brothers show seems a little low anyway. Like, the fact that you would still do that. You're incredible, man. You're like, I didn't play much, but anyway, 5 out of 10 seems low. Ignoring. Maybe on the doll from Nintendo Fairfax, maybe Tobias is in.

[Griffin McElroy]

You didn't kick the hornet's nest as much as you walked up to it and looked at it and took a bite out of it for no reason.

[Ross Rocha]

I didn't.

[Justin McElroy]

You're also a professional in the same field.

[Ross Rocha]

You're right. You're right. I rescind my dumb note.

[Justin McElroy]

Dope I love.

[Ross Rocha]

No, I do. You're right. Who am I to fucking say? Me, who played several hours but not 40 hours.

[Griffin McElroy]

IGN's on the Sega payroll, clearly. So what are we doing this week instead?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, we didn't actually get to the intro yet.

[Ross Rocha]

Okay. So, yeah, we're mixing it up. What are we doing, Juice?

[Justin McElroy]

This week we're going to talk about Windblown, which is the new one from the dead cells, folks. And I would still like to know something about brothership. I would like to learn.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, I'll speak about it in the honorable mention section.

[Justin McElroy]

All right, good. I would love to hear about that. And then we got a. A Quest of a different stripe, featuring the dragons that everybody loves. And Griffin was excited about Dragon Quest 3 coming back and I really don't understand why.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm really looking forward to Dragon Quest 3HD 2D remake. It drips off the tongue.

[Justin McElroy]

I am so drizzles feel very validated in my flippings.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes, you are valid. Let's go to a break and then talk about some shit.

[Justin McElroy]

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[Ross Rocha]

Okay, we're going to start with Windblown. Yeah. This is a game that is in early access. It is made by the folks who made dead cells. And it is a isometric roguelike in the style of Hades.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. Do we need at this point to.

[Ross Rocha]

Define what that is?

[Justin McElroy]

Well, no, it's. The structure of this is so regimented. I'm almost starting to feel like it's a genre unto itself. Right. This idea of like the isometric run based like the layering of powers. So you're like building a power set.

[Ross Rocha]

That would yeah, with a meta upgrade thing.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, a meta upgrade that can kind of. Well, not just a meta upgrade, but like the run is like a layered. Like the pace of powers is like layering on top of. And you're like building a build as you go.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

And it's like not just about managing health, but like managing all these different currencies and upgrades.

[Ross Rocha]

And like, I mean the problem is that's rogue.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's rogue.

[Ross Rocha]

That's a rogue game.

[Griffin McElroy]

So it's like, it's a hack and slash. Roguelike. I think that. I don't think Hades.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, you're right. No, no, no, I understand. Yes.

[Ross Rocha]

No, I get the instinct because it is so similar to Hades and you almost want to divide that from like traditional rogue and those rules, I guess Rogue Lite. Right. That's what they call it. Rogue.

[Justin McElroy]

To me there's a difference between the. Okay. To me, there is a lot less of a. With the kind of game I'm thinking about with the Hades, it's a lot more dependent on like good roles giving you a build that is dominant rather than a skill based thing where you're getting good with all these kinds of different weapons, which I would argue what Dead Cells was, was like learning how the weapons work. And it was a lot more about that versus like I got these different upgrades that all sort of complement each other.

[Ross Rocha]

You do get. I mean, there are roles in Dead Cells. Anyway. I think it's an interesting distinction.

[Griffin McElroy]

Let's set up like what the game, what the game actually is before.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, you do this, Russ.

[Ross Rocha]

Okay, fine. It's an isometric Roguelite. You're like, oh God, there is a story, but I really didn't grok it. You're like an animal person. There's a bunch of animal people on a floating island and you have to something. Suddenly you're fighting a bunch of guys. Don't worry about the narrative. You're fighting a bunch of guys in arenas that again are pretty similar to Hades, if you played Hades. And honestly the core of the game to me feels like. It feels like Hades merged with Dead Cells. You have very similar kind of weapon slots and ability slots like you did in Dead Cells. But obviously the combat being isometric and arena based.

[Justin McElroy]

There's definitely an idea of like the two. Your two main weapons, like complementing each other and how they, how you're switching between those two main forms of combat, which is a big part of Dead Cells. And I think it's not as. Not as much. It's not that like main Special distinction from a Hades. It's kind of like a dual wielding.

[Ross Rocha]

Right. And you've also got these two abilities. They're on cooldown, so you might have like a bomb that you can activate every 30 seconds. And then you'll get passive perks that'll like decrease cooldowns or increase damage. Again, very dead cells, but in a Hades format.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay. Yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you get to date monsters?

[Griffin McElroy]

It's in early access. I have to imagine you get to date monsters.

[Ross Rocha]

It seems more kid friendly than either dead cells or Hades.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, they are not. From the way it's structured right now, I would say that they are really not intending for you to linger in the hub world currently. They are very much sort of like you get the base currency, which in this game is Gears. You spin the gears that you managed to bring back from your last run and you move on. And there's a couple more like dalliances there, but they're really not trying to weigh you down with story. They really want you to hop back up and go start a run again.

[Griffin McElroy]

Does it do the Dead Cells II thing where you unlock sort of more tools and weapons and blueprints. Yes, blueprints that appear out in the wild that you.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, that is in there as well.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So my big bummer with a game like Dead Cells and this entire kind of like area.

[Ross Rocha]

I'm so excited. Go ahead. Because this is perfect setup for Segment B. Go ahead. Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, don't worry. I'm aware of the problems with the game I'm bringing. Don't worry. You have to play so much to unlock the various things that are the actual game. Yeah, I understand. Well, and here's where it is different than segment being an RPG. Yes, I get it. RPGs, you have to play too long before it gets fun. Weirdly, this one's gonna be the opposite. But here where it's like, oh, if you just want to see the game, which has happened in another game I played recently, which is there was a Vampire Survivors game I think is like guilty of this entire genre, I guess I'm saying is like, how long do I have to play this before it actually feels like the game?

[Justin McElroy]

So I will, if I could address this with Windblown. I think the issue right now with Windblown is actually more about it being in Early Access and how it decides to meter out information. Because my frustration, I think is it was teaching me the things that I already know because I know the genre and it spends early stuff teaching you those sorts of ideas. Which if you have fluency, you already know them. Right. So you're not like, it's not that engaging. And I played the first, like, really only like 20, 30 minutes. And I'm like, I don't really get what's special about this because it just feels like the other games, but that's because they're teaching me the stuff that I already know. Once you get a little bit deeper in legitimately, like 30 minutes in, it's doing some cool stuff. I'll give you an example. We're talking about dual, like having two weapons, you're switching between you. It has this idea where if you string together enough attacks with one weapon, it incentivizes you to flip to the other weapon and you do a special more powerful attack. So you've got a flow going there and you're incentivized to break what you're doing and switch to your other weapon and bring that into your flow of combat. So, like finding good moments in the flow of combat to like switch weapons to keep this going.

[Ross Rocha]

And that is a very smart evolution of dead cells, where oftentimes I'd be on a dead cells run and I just would forget that I had a secondary weapon because my primary was so strong. So this encourages mixing things up.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think I have a better way of asking what I was getting at, which is there's that threshold in a dead cells light game where you get to a boss and it's like, congratulations, you've made it to the boss. You're just going to have to play this section over five or six times. This happened with that Prince of Persia game that we brought. Not the great one, but the one that was good. Rogue. Yeah, Prince of Persia Rogue, where it's like, okay, it doesn't actually matter what my skill is. I have to grind it to get to that point.

[Ross Rocha]

No, I understand. So Justin and I have had a different experience with this.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Okay.

[Ross Rocha]

I played my very first run, I played through and I made it to the second boss of the second area and was doing pretty well. I know Justin being like worse at games overall, somebody who needs guides.

[Justin McElroy]

No, I'll say that I didn't. I was actually trying to rush the tempo too much. Like, if you range is a pretty good option in this game and it's not something that I would normally think about, but it's actually really effective here and you kind of have to utilize it. And I don't think I would using enough because Russ and I, last night or yesterday afternoon played together and that.

[Ross Rocha]

Is this is the thing that's the hook that you don't know. And honestly, the game is not very good at telling you that there's multiplayer in this game.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, but how does it work?

[Justin McElroy]

It's cool as hell. Can I tell you how it works? It's really fucking cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

Radio.

[Justin McElroy]

You go in and you're just basically playing the game in tandem with each other and you get an upgrade. And I was a little unclear, Russ, on whether or not we were each getting upgrades or we were like sharing or splitting them.

[Ross Rocha]

It seems like they were instanced unless you drop something on the ground, in which case anyone can pick it up.

[Justin McElroy]

But this game is very fast moving, right? So it's very much like you have a very fast dash that you can use to not just get around fights, but get around the islands. The battles are like smaller, they're more condensed than a Hades. Like they're more like you might fight.

[Ross Rocha]

Like six guys instead of Hades where you're fighting like 30.

[Justin McElroy]

So it's moving a lot faster. But I think the time to kill on yourself is fast too, right? So it's not like a run falls apart over several minutes. It's like, oh shit, I'm getting my ass kicked. Oh no, I'm dead. A little closer to vampire survivors in that. Feel a little bit like you get overwhelmed fairly quickly. But in the multiplayer, when you're going through together, when one of the players dies, the other player has a kill counter above their head and they gotta get 10 kills to revive. To revive.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay, cool.

[Ross Rocha]

Well, and also you're in, you're in sudden death. So if you get hit once while in that mode, it's the end of the run.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's really good.

[Justin McElroy]

So the other. So I. So that is like, it's so smart in terms of how do you balance for two players who are unequally yoked, if you will, because I died and suddenly I was way into what was happening on the screen because it's suddenly this intense thing where I'm watching a much better player have like a high stakes run all of a sudden that could bring me back into the game or not. And then. And so we're both like engaged with it. Even though like our skill level is very different, it's like it's really smart.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love that. As long as you are playing with somebody who isn't going to be mad if like. Because it sounds like they, they die too effectually if.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh no, no, no, no, no, you. What you meant to say is as long as you Play with somebody who has learned over a decade how to mask their anger with you, not just as a player, but as a human being.

[Griffin McElroy]

And by a decade, you mean however old Russia is in years.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, how long Russ and I have known each other. Yes, Russ has gotten really good.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love that it doesn't have the multiplayer thing where it's like, oh, great, I died and now I have to just watch. And who knows how long I'm going to have to watch for? Am I going to have to watch for?

[Ross Rocha]

Well, you do have to watch, but you're watching with purpose.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

5, 15 minutes. You're watching for, like, a little chunk waiting.

[Justin McElroy]

And you're not passively watching. You are biting your nails. Cause the whole run is going to fall apart right here if the other person can't. Can't come through.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And the flip side is, for somebody who's not. Not Russ, but somebody you know like Russ, as bad as that feeling of, oh, no, I died because my partner died, is the feeling of, I am such a great and generous God that I brought my friend back to life. Far, I suspect, would far out exceed it for a person like Russ, but not Russ.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. If someone could just recreate the Sistine Chapel ceiling and me reaching out, then touch Justin's hand to bring him back to life.

[Justin McElroy]

It feels. It's really. And also, in addition to it being very tense, when you pull through, the other person comes back with, like, half health, and the other person is usually back at full health because they haven't been dinged.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

And it's like you're way back in it. Like, you are absolutely. It's legitimate. Like, the run is, like, absolutely back on if you can pull through the sudden death thing. Okay. So that being said, trying to go back to it after Russ and I did that, I found it a lot less engaging for me personally, trying to play solo after it. Was that fun to play multiplayer? Like, yeah. I felt like it was not showing as well for me. Right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Is it up to four players?

[Ross Rocha]

It's. It's three, so it maxes out at three. I've played three with randoms for what it's worth, and that worked totally fine. I didn't feel any lag when I was playing with Justin or with randoms. I think it was designed.

[Justin McElroy]

It's impressive because it's really fast.

[Ross Rocha]

I mean, it was definitely designed from the ground up to. So there's probably some fudging going on to make sure you feel. It feels good. So it feels great. I think the multiplayer is the defining factor of why it sets itself apart. But I also think the minute to minute feels really strong because they've been making some variant of this game since Dead Cells launch, however, years, eight years ago.

[Justin McElroy]

Whatever it was, the weapons feel cool too. They've already got some interesting ideas. There's a, like a crossbow that you fire on a beat and if you fire in, keep the rhythm going.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. There's like a quick time circle. So if you're hitting the circle each time you do critical.

[Justin McElroy]

And the music is fucking killer in this great music. And if you're firing in with the beat, you keep a combo going, your damage is increasing. But if you roll out of it, then you lose it. So it's like this, like, how long are you going to stay stationary and stay on the beat? And that's just the one weapon. But the first time I got that I was like, oh, wow. If they have a lot of different ones like this because a lot of them have really cool ideas like that.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. The other differentiating factor with Dead Cells is if you've ever played a lot of Dead Cells, you know the feeling of like, I'm doing really great. I have a streak going, whatever. I haven't been hit for a while and then I make like a dumb platforming move where I fall into acid. There's no pits. Oh, sorry. There are a ton of pits in this game, but there's no way to fall into them.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait, strike that.

[Ross Rocha]

There's lots of pits, but there's no way to fall into them. You've got the air dash, basically. And you spend a lot of time between arenas. You're just air dashing automatically from platform to platform. But it just like does all the work for you such that you literally can't fall into anything.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Ross Rocha]

So there's no. The only time you're ever going to get hit is by getting hit by an enemy. So that kind of simplifies a lot of the exploration aspects, which are relatively simple compared to what they were in Dead Cells. But if you found that frustrating, the platforming stuff. Frustrating. There's essentially zero platforming in this.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

A bit of a behind the scenes question here, but this is early access. Do I need to play this game before we do the besties? Like the final besties? Besties for this year? Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

No, I don't think it's ready. I could see it being a contender next year for when it hits 1.0 or whatever.

[Justin McElroy]

I would say the biggest. And I always struggle with this because I know this comes down to taste. But I would say my biggest problem with it right now is that it is so smooth with like easing you back into a run after a death that I feel like it doesn't feel chunky enough for me to where I really feel a loss or a gain. Like I don't have that sense of like having to like. I worry that it's not impactful enough to keep me engaged with it. It's like, it doesn't really frustrate me and I feel like that's going to keep me with a lot of these run based things. That's part of the magic for me, I think, is like, all right, I'm gonna go back. And I don't feel as compelled to like, just one more run this.

[Ross Rocha]

I mean, there was that run where we dropped like 100 cogs on the ground after a death and that was.

[Justin McElroy]

Pretty brutal, Utterly demoralized.

[Ross Rocha]

But I do think that there are. I agree with you because when you go to the store and you like, look at the potential upgrades, it doesn't feel as enticing as it probably should.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. And a lot of the upgrades in runs too are like 5% better damage, 10% better money, whatever. It's not fun.

[Ross Rocha]

It's also not necessarily, and this is a totally personal thing, so look at screenshots and video to decide for yourself. Not necessarily my preferred aesthetic. I much prefer the look and feel of Dead Cells.

[Justin McElroy]

Feels like a canceled MOBA that was.

[Ross Rocha]

Justin's note, which is pretty spot on and also very hard.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks like a canceled MOBA that was spearheaded by a first person shooter design.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, it's very. I don't even know how to describe it.

[Justin McElroy]

Am I wrong?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, I mean, you're not wrong, but, you know, lots of things don't need to be said just because they're true.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's very funny, but it's mean. It's pretty mean.

[Justin McElroy]

It is mean. It is mean.

[Ross Rocha]

It looks like a game that could be called, like, Lucky's Crystal Adventure, even though the gameplay itself is much more elevated than that.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hey, don't shit talk. Lucky's Chris.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks like a game that's my.

[Griffin McElroy]

Favorite game of the year.

[Justin McElroy]

It looks like a game that somehow South Korea pays you a dollar an hour to play. You don't exactly know how it works, but like, yeah, okay, fine.

[Ross Rocha]

But it's very, like, as a game, it's a lot of fun. So. Yeah, now that, I mean, I don't know how to address that problem. It's really just a taste thing. But maybe we're just old men and don't like that look and feel, but the feel of it feels good.

[Justin McElroy]

I haven't liked the way a game has looked for five years. I don't remember the last thing. No, you know what?

[Griffin McElroy]

Are you trying to think of a game you like the look of?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, that was one game. What was? The card game with Stoats.

[Griffin McElroy]

Fucking inscryption inscription.

[Justin McElroy]

That looked cool. I like the way that looked.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's the only game you've liked the look of in the last five.

[Ross Rocha]

Okay, man, take that, Greg Casavin and team what they risked.

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, listen, baby. They're resting on their laurels. Hades came out more than five years ago, okay? And I like the way Hades looked. They didn't even finish this one before they put it out. Greg got Greg's, like, paper towel and Sharpie drawings that he just, like, had laying around. Finish the game, Greg, before you let me play. I'm just kidding. Greg, please, please don't kick me out, man. I barely made it to Olympus.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, man. Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

I think it really is. There's a lot of. There is a lot of, like, really smart ideas here that I think that, like. And they're the kind of thing that feels like you want more of. Like, the early access is fun because you're going to get these, like, new weapons that will be really fun and interesting.

[Ross Rocha]

It's also not rough for an early access game. It's incredibly well polished.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's there is very smooth.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, Fresh, while he's been talking, has been sharpening knives for the next section. He's ready to just.

[Ross Rocha]

You can't even.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know why.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't know why I'm so ignorant of this. I'm so thrilled.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I am so ready to talk about Dragon Quest 3 HD 2D remake right after this break. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all on your terms. But here's the real reason, you know, now that we've got that out of the way, why you should get Squarespace, because everybody should have a website now more than ever. You've heard me talk about this. You need to have a space on the Internet that is truly your own. Everybody is trying to take advantage of you effectively with social media and other forms of creating content for them. Why not have a space where you are creating something for yourself? Maybe that is for your friends. Maybe that is for your family. Maybe it is literally an art posting spot that is literally just for you to preserve whatever it is that you do and care about. Squarespace has all of these great systems like Design Intelligence from Squarespace or Squarespace Payments, which makes it super easy to manage your payments. You can get started with like just a few clicks and you have all sorts of popular payment methods like ACH and Apple Pay because you need a home online. Create something, make something awesome and share it with the world and do it for nobody but yourself. That's a way of being on the Internet in 2024 and moving forward. So how do you do it? You go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to www.squarespace.combesties to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com besties to save 10% off your 1st purchase of a website or domain.

[Griffin McElroy]

Us gamers got a game and there's nothing that can stop us. Even a subscription fee for the game that we're playing. But sometimes we move on to a new game and forget about that subscription fee for a long, long time and it's just chewing away at our bank account like so many termites. Well, good news. Rocket Money is here to help you find those subscriptions that you have forgotten about and help you cancel them so that you can save a whole bunch of money. I've used Rocket Money a lot in the past to catch some subscriptions for games. MMOs specifically that I hadn't been playing, or apps specifically for my kids on the iPad that I had subscribed to and forgotten about. And I cannot even fathom how much money it has saved me because of those subscriptions that it caught. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancels unwanted subscriptions. It also monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to 740 bucks a year when using all the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to Rocketmoney.combesties that's Rocketmoney.combesties one last time. Rocketmoney.combesties.

[Justin McElroy]

To begin, Dragon Quest was released as Dragon Warrior on the nes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Good.

[Justin McElroy]

And so if you don't understand what Dragon Quest is, you should know that it's the Same as Dragon Warrior on the nes.

[Ross Rocha]

And do the numbers match up?

[Griffin McElroy]

The numbers do match up. Unlike Final Fantasy. Yes. Which I.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

How many people do you think were listening and are like, oh, now I.

[Griffin McElroy]

Know what you're doing. Now I get it. Now I understand.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Dozens.

[Justin McElroy]

And this is the one with the slimes.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's got so many fucking slimes came out on the NES. So Dragon Warrior 1 was pretty groundbreaking. It sort of proved you could do a big RPG like Wizardry, like Ultima on a console as tiny as the nes. But it was just one guy, one character, and that was it. It was pretty, pretty straightforward. You didn't have a whole, whole team. Dragon Quest 2 introduced a couple party members that rocked with you, but they were pretty static. And then Dragon Quest 3 came out and really almost completely destroyed the economy of the nation of Japan because of how deeply, deeply into it people got.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Many people got arrested for truancy laws.

[Griffin McElroy]

Because of that game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, it was just bonkers.

[Griffin McElroy]

And the reason why that is, is because it sort of. It adds a party creation sort of mechanic that was way, way, way, way, way ahead of its time and sort of expanded the world in every direction. So you had more choice in where you explored. There were entire like side quests and areas that you wouldn't go to. Things that like I feel like to talk about Dragon Quest iii, you have to be able to place it in its era in the context of what it meant, because it truly was way ahead of its time. Now if you don't like Dragon Quest games or JRPGs, is this the one for you? Fucking definitely not. Cause this is still a Dragon Quest ass Dragon Quest game. Although Chris, you might dissent to that. Cause it seems like you like this one more than you were expecting.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I feel like I've transcended and I have probably you to thank the most for that.

[Ross Rocha]

You've been Gryffon pilled.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yep, I have been griffin pilled the past year, especially of playing Yakuza or sorry, like a Dragon, Infinite wealth, which I think we've talked about. That that combat kind of eased me into turn based and then metaphor which fully brought me in. I was just ready for this and I thought I wouldn't enjoy it because I played Dragon Quest XI and overall liked it. But the combat was like slow and turn based. Not really my thing. And the idea of going from Dragon Quest XI all the way to III sounded terrifying. But the game looks good.

[Griffin McElroy]

Looks and sounds great.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So if I go further, can you explain what's going on with the visuals.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, yeah, it is Square Enix's sort of patented Octopath traveler, you know, flat sprites on these gorgeous sort of 3D, dynamically lit worlds.

[Ross Rocha]

And that's what that 2D. Jason Treyer had to explain this to me, because I didn't. I thought the title was insane.

[Griffin McElroy]

It is insane. They're even explaining it. It's still insane.

[Ross Rocha]

2D. What is it? HD 2D?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

That's how they're branding this look.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

So 2D sprites in a 3D world with actual lighting is 2D, HD 2D?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And kind of when you see that.

[Ross Rocha]

In a shift focus and a tilt shift. Yeah, like blurring.

[Griffin McElroy]

And so I will say I am deeply into this game. Unsurprisingly, I had my own sort of voyage through the whole catalog of Dragon Quest games during COVID That is how I decided to spend my quarantine time. But I didn't really ever get around to this one because I was excited for this game to come out and I'm having a really good time with it. I think that the party planning stuff is very satisfying to make a team of heroes with different jobs and sort of like feeling like that sort of experience is your own. And like other Dragon Quest games, you can really kind of interact with it as much as you want to. To wit, like, this game has tactics where you can tell your party members what to do and then you don't have to give them orders in combat, and then you can speed that combat up to a hysterical degree. It has difficulty settings and it has a lot of quality of life stuff. Like, stuff that's never been in Dragon Quest games before. Like a map with waypoints on it. You can turn that on, turn it off at your leisure.

[Ross Rocha]

So you can waypoints, like fast travel waypoints. Or.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, the game does have fast travel. It's always had a spell that you can use. Now it's free. Like, they have really, truly, more than any other Dragon Quest game, smoothed off all the rough edges of the experience. So, like, I don't know if you've been interested in Dragon Quest and you've liked some, like, say, like Russ, you started playing xi, but it didn't really click for you. Maybe this might work because it's I actually based.

[Ross Rocha]

And I'm curious what you guys think. Do you think the narrative of this is, like, relatively light?

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, yes. Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Ross Rocha]

Okay, so that's a good thing for me. Yeah, sure. Because 11, what turned me off of 11 is I'm a Very special boy. And I need to climb a hill and I'm going to spend six hours climbing a fucking mountain to get my very special magic power. Now I would rather it be throw me in like it's spelunky and like whatever. I get the gist. I'd rather fucking fight monsters immediately.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Maybe you might like it because yes, the narrative for the first five hours is like, go to tower, go to tower.

[Griffin McElroy]

Get stone, get stone from tower. Unlock gate for boat. It's like very, very, very, very silly.

[Ross Rocha]

That's enticing.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. I am absolutely smitten with the design of this and everything that you talked about, Griffin, of making it accommodating for whatever you enjoy about the game. So for me, I effectively just blast through combat, even randomized events. I preset my party for what I want them to do. I have it on ultra speed and the second I go into a battle, I hit attack and then I go back to watching TV and then the fight ends and then I finish that grinding and I move on a little further and the same thing happens over and over again. I think fresh. I messaged you that it's like a perfect podcast game. You kind of want to be doing something else during large parts of it because it is a grind, but it's not un fun. It is like doodling.

[Griffin McElroy]

Doodling is a really, really, really good way of describing it is so lightweight. It is fun to watch the numbers go up. There's like cross class mechanics that you eventually unlock to like further. Like I've got a priest that I just made a martial artist so he can heal and do fighting stuff. Like it's so simple. There's nothing truly revolutionary about most of the stuff that it does. Now that wasn't true back in 1993 or whatever. Whenever the original game came out then it was pretty fucking revolutionary.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But now it's just, that's the fun is that because everything else is made so easy as a kind of like a history lesson of like, hey, I've always wanted to go back and see what made these games so special because all of the annoying parts are completely out of my way. I'm just enjoying seeing exactly what you're talking about, Griffin, where I'm recruiting characters and using these items to change their jobs in all these absolutely strange ways. And the map is huge. It's like an open world map. And Griffin mentioned that yes, you can get these kind of goals on the map where you need to head to X. But the system that I love the most is you are motivated to talk to all the characters because characters are constantly dropping clues of where things might be. So you're talking to a random character and they're like, oh, well, I had heard something about this mysterious treasure that was dropped by these pirates in this part of the land. And then if you hit start on the Steam deck, you can save that piece of dialogue into a dialogue bank.

[Ross Rocha]

I like that a lot.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

In theory, you could play the whole game like you would with a notebook, turn off or ignore the waypointing and spend the entire time actually having an adventure. And that's where it hit in my head of no wonder this game was huge. Because imagining playing this on the NES where you have this giant open world and characters are just throwing little bits of dialogue at you and you can go anywhere you want to have your own adventure.

[Ross Rocha]

I mean, to some extent it sounds like Zelda 1, where you have this very large space and you're getting like cryptic hints of like, hey, there might be a heart on a peninsula. Whatever the fuck that means.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I mean I think that's an apt comparison specifically for Dragon Quest 1. Right. But I think Dragon Quest 3, as a pretty die hard fan of JRPGs with like a pretty like I think strong familiarity with the lexicon of the whole genre, it is astonishing how much of that came from this game. And I think that if you do enjoy JRPGs and you were like me a few years ago, having never really gotten into Dragon Quest, I think that this is actually a pretty quick way to learn what this whole series is about because it's also. There is a charm to this series that is difficult to. To encapsulate. Every area of the map is sort of a microcosmic version of a real world country or city. And so you're going on this weird world tour of like now I'm in Italy and now I'm in Egypt and now I'm at. And all of the dark.

[Ross Rocha]

But not racist. Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't think I'm the right person to describe whether or not that is true. I will say.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I will say fictional accents that are nothing like wherever they're at.

[Justin McElroy]

I don't know.

[Griffin McElroy]

The Italian accents are. They sound pretty.

[Ross Rocha]

It has voiceover.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. So there is some voiceover during important scenes. I will say that they did change. There's a city in the sort of Egypt inspired part of the land. The original game was called Isis and they have gone ahead and changed that to Ibis.

[Ross Rocha]

Cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

So they did change that one for.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Giving everything that you can't see right now.

[Justin McElroy]

Before we close, what else would you like to say?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My only kind of, I guess, warning for people, my elk, who are not hardcore RPG people and are kind of just coming into it is I did hit a wall around probably like seven hours or so where you start to get into dungeons and you can fall off edges while you're navigating dungeons. And again there are these like randomized battles. So you will get through a dungeon, you'll be doing really well and then you'll just drop off an edge because you weren't paying attention. Because it's a chill out game and Suddenly you are 1, 2, 3 lower levels and you have to.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's quite demoralizing. Yeah. There's also like cursed items and at.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

First it was like funny and then it was less funny each time it happened.

[Griffin McElroy]

You don't really get much description for what the different items and pieces of equipment do. And some of them are secretly cursed where if you equip them, you're just kind of fucked. There's lots of really classic kind of cruft to it. It is not going to be the game that changes your mind about Dragon Quest if you already know how you feel about the series. But I don't know, I think there's lots of people who are, who are really, really going to enjoy it. I certainly am.

[Ross Rocha]

I guess I had a question we've talked a lot about in the past about games with upgrades or items that don't feel very satisfying, like a 3% increase to damage. And every time that I've played a jrpg, it kind of makes me feel like every time I level up it's meaningless because even though the numbers do go up, it equates to essentially a 3% increase in damage. So how is that different from like God of War's issues where a piece of armor is doing the same thing?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So there are items in the game and pieces of equipment that just do very different things. So you can get like a boomerang in the game and it will attack every enemy on screen, which as you get going later on is like eight characters versus having like a sword that does one or you can have a whip that does a kind of a version of that. The other thing that you have is just like the different spells that you're getting with each of those upgrades. So yeah, your rates are going up, but you're getting different spells that change how your characters play and perform.

[Griffin McElroy]

You can also multiclass. Once you get them to level 20, you can multiclass. There are big breakpoints to hunt down to make the characters considerably stronger.

[Ross Rocha]

Sure.

[Griffin McElroy]

And I think just having those kind of in front of you every time you get a new spell or ability for a character, it really. You're gonna use it because there's not a ton of stuff you can do in this game. So, like, I don't know, all of that stuff feels very tactile and very sort of meaningful. And the combat is somewhat punishing if you are not making steps towards getting stronger. And so, I don't know, it feels necessary and rewarding to do that stuff.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. I am enticed by it again, because it is that de emphasis of narrative.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

It bums me out because I know what the steps after this are, which is like more and more and more and more narrative, which doesn't appeal to me all.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know that that's gonna happen in Dragon Quest 3. Man, it really.

[Ross Rocha]

No, no, no. But I mean, in this game, this was like kind of the end of this period of like, relatively light narrative.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Dragon Quest games have more narrative than this, but not so much that if you liked this, I would just say that I think, like, oh, you found your RPG series. Dragon Quest in general is like it.

[Justin McElroy]

Before we close real quick, Russ, if you could open up the box art that I sent in the bestie slack. I would just love for imagine everyone, that the year is 1989 and you go into your local funko land looking for a new game and Russ is behind the counter and you're like, hey, Russ, I am looking for a new NES game. I'm just a kid. And Russ is like, actually, I have one that I'd love to recommend to you and Russ if you could just read this box.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, sure. Dragon Warrior, the epic beginning of a new era in video games.

[Griffin McElroy]

Good, good.

[Ross Rocha]

So far, mere finger speed and sweat are no match for the challenges of this game. You will be required to use deductive reasoning, not a quick sword, to defeat your enemies. All is darkness. The dragon Lloyd.

[Griffin McElroy]

The dragon Lloyd.

[Justin McElroy]

Dragonloin.

[Ross Rocha]

Dragon Lloyd has captured the princess and stolen Urd Rick's powerful ball of light.

[Griffin McElroy]

This kicks ass.

[Ross Rocha]

You are Erdrick's heir. It's now there's no space between.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, now it's just.

[Ross Rocha]

Erdrick to you has found Rick.

[Griffin McElroy]

Erdrick's dad?

[Ross Rocha]

Please.

[Justin McElroy]

Hardrick is my dad.

[Ross Rocha]

This is spectacular.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay, go ahead, please.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, okay. Sorry. You are Erdrick's heir. To you has fallen the most dangerous task, to rescue the king's daughter and recover the mystic ball of light. Your mission is deadly, but it is your fate. Prophets have long foretold your coming. Three keepers await your journey, each ready to aid you with the mystic item of great power. Gather three objects. Scribes will record your deeds. Use cunning and wisdom to choose your commands. Gain experience, weapons and armor as you battle your way through the world. Rest if you must.

[Griffin McElroy]

Rude judge.

[Ross Rocha]

Search out the Dragon Lord's lair and face your destiny in this role playing adventure. You are the Dragon Warrior.

[Justin McElroy]

So I do think it's supposed to say Dragon Lord. I think in the second paragraph. I think that's what Dragonloid is, is they're trying to type. It's just a typo, I guess, on the back of Dragon Warrior.

[Ross Rocha]

And Erdrick is probably a typo too, with the space between.

[Justin McElroy]

Amazing.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'll buy it. Thank you so much. I'll buy this.

[Ross Rocha]

Sounds like dynamite.

[Justin McElroy]

It sounds dynamite. And the box art is just. Fuck it.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, they don't make them. I mean, this is for the first game. This is not for three.

[Justin McElroy]

No, but that NES gap between box art here, the Mega man gap is in full force here.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, cool, cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, what else is. What else is going on, guys?

[Ross Rocha]

So, yeah. Inaudible mentions. I'm gonna talk a little bit about Mario Luigi brothership, which again, I didn't play a ton of, but I played, I think, enough to at least have a short statement on it. Here's the thing. I think Nintendo has learned the lesson that maybe reimagining the combat of a Mario RPG every single time they make a game is not the best idea. And I know they've struggled with the crazy origami combat and the sticker star combat. Whatever it is, this feels like a return to, okay, we're just going to master the combat that was in Super Mario RPG and the Mario and Luigi games, and we're just going to like refine that to the point that it feels good. And you know what? It feels really good. I really, really like the combat in this game. What the issue is, it's just like pacing wise, it's incredibly slow, which I know has been a complaint of others on this podcast regarding some of the Mario and Luigi games. And the characters you're meeting aren't very interesting and it just doesn't necessarily draw you in. Again, I only played about four or five hours, but I was not enticed to solve the problems of this world. And I think part of it is just they're so unwilling to tap into the Mushroom Kingdom catalog of characters, so they keep having to reinvent These standalone random ass cloud people that no one cares about. Rather than like we were talking about Thousand Year Door, we're like, hey, this. This shy guy kind of sounds like he's dealing drugs. That's pretty funny.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

And so they don't really. You don't get that level of like enjoyment out of it. It also doesn't run very well, which I think may be a consequence of it maybe being designed for the Switch 2. I don't know for sure, but it just doesn't run great, which shouldn't necessarily be a problem, but there's like a lot of twitch combat stuff where you're trying to like nail timing on a jump and it just doesn't feel as good as it should. So I'm super bummed. I hope this doesn't like doom the future of the brothership franchise. I actually heard that both remakes of the two RPG remakes that they put out in the last 12 months have sold better than this game at launch. So I worry what this bodes for the future, but kind of a letdown. I'm definitely disappointed, but yeah. The other game I want to talk about is a game called Redacted, which I know that Justin played.

[Justin McElroy]

Ah, this is a. This is a good one.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I would say really cool ideas.

[Ross Rocha]

Interesting. It is another. Why did we decide you're not allowed.

[Justin McElroy]

To call it a Hades light? Because everybody shot me down and they're like isometric roguelike Hades.

[Ross Rocha]

We need something as clean as search action games. So if you could do some research, Justin, and come up with something.

[Justin McElroy]

It's too specific of a genre, but yes, it is.

[Ross Rocha]

So it is in the style of Hades. But this one, you're kind of breaking out of a prison and the combat, it feels a little slower than Hades or certainly windblown slightly and a little more tactical.

[Justin McElroy]

I think the competitive aspect is really what's interesting about it.

[Ross Rocha]

Right. So as you're escaping from this prison, you're also racing against a handful of AI folks that are also trying to escape the prison. And the AI folks will drop like curses on you that'll make your runs harder. So for example, one of them will like drop a darkness curse. So now you can only see enemies within your flashlight cone of vision, which makes things very interesting. And then eventually, if you catch up to them, you'll have these mini boss fights against your rivals that if you win those boss fights, you get like a huge boost in power and then you're obviously no longer chasing them because you've killed them.

[Justin McElroy]

You are also able to create hazards for them. In the same way you can slow them down by choosing some sort of hazard.

[Griffin McElroy]

Is there a multiplayer component to this?

[Ross Rocha]

No, it's just single player.

[Griffin McElroy]

I was going to say that would be.

[Ross Rocha]

But it's just.

[Justin McElroy]

But there is. There is an idea of like you developing a rivalry. Think more like the Lord of the Rings games where it's like, it's very clear who you're competing against. They remember you. There's a history there.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

You're also unlocking upgrades that is like. And this is kind of what the redacted thing is about. You are gaining information about your competitors. And once that information is unlocked, it manifests as like damage buffs to them.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay.

[Justin McElroy]

So it's like as you learn more about each of the competitors and unlock more of their story, you become. It's easier to fight them because you know their weaknesses.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. The game also has like a cool look to it. It's like very cel shaded, very comic book style, which I can't think of any other Hades likes that look like this necessarily. Obviously Hades touches on this, but the whole gameplay has that same kind of comic book art style. It's also set in the universe of Callisto Protocol. Did you know that, Justin?

[Justin McElroy]

I didn't and I don't know what that means.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They've really buried that. It feels like.

[Ross Rocha]

I know. I think intentionally, I think Kraft in the studio, who is probably best known, I guess for pubg at this point, is trying to like use some of the IP that they have to like launch stuff. And I think they've realized that the IP that they have doesn't necessarily carry a lot of cache.

[Justin McElroy]

T. Russ, do you think considering they called this game Redacted that they don't have a lot of cache? Literally no title is better than any title that they could come up with.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Callisto Protocol, for the people who have already forgotten was the like Dead spells. Spiritual success.

[Ross Rocha]

Dead space.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Sorry. Thank you.

[Griffin McElroy]

Combined dead space and dead cells into dead spells, which sounds like a fucking cool game, Chris.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm so amped about dead spells. Fuck you, dude. That sounds kick ass. Drop some info about dead spells. Don't just get me all worked up.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dead spells on the bumper.

[Justin McElroy]

Our spells on the bumper are the triggers. Just tell me that at least. Are the dead spells on the bumper to the triggers. I'm crazy about run based fan. It's a romanticy. You're telling me. It's also, dude, there's angel romance and dead spells. I love this game. Molyneux What?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

He's back, baby.

[Justin McElroy]

Involved.

[Ross Rocha]

He's in the game. Plant a tree.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's.

[Ross Rocha]

Most of it is on rails, though we should mention that it's on rails.

[Griffin McElroy]

On Rails. FMV Romantasy starring Peter Molyneux.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Bad fuck. What else are you saying?

[Griffin McElroy]

I've been playing some good stuff. I've been playing Pokemon TCG Pocket, which dropped on Halloween. Real quick. It is a game about opening booster packs of Pokemon cards. You get two a day, and it's got the message, without the mess.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, without the mess.

[Griffin McElroy]

When it's your time. Every 12 hours, basically, you get to open a booster pack.

[Justin McElroy]

It's your time. The angel of Death will come and say, how much time did you spend opening fake Pokemon cards?

[Griffin McElroy]

And then you pick your pack and then you get to drag your finger across the screen, tear it open. Very satisfying. You get some cards out of it, and then there's a bunch of missions and goals and quests and stuff to collect certain cards. There's a lot of different ways to. To get cards and speed that time.

[Justin McElroy]

Are you buying them or is it just like.

[Griffin McElroy]

So you can.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like if you don't. No, it's free. Two a day are free. But then you get five cards. Two packs of five cards each. There are lots of ways to speed that timer up. And you can also pay money, basically, to speed that timer up if you want to. There's also a premium membership. You can get that now there's a third pack a day, and you get access to all these different other quests to help speed it up. The cool thing about the game is that it also includes a playable version of the Pokemon trading card game. And it is way streamlined. It's very, very, very streamlined. So much so that matches last, like, three to five minutes and a lot of them.

[Ross Rocha]

So it's different rules from normal Pokemon.

[Griffin McElroy]

So, yes, the biggest one is that there's no energy cards. You just get one energy per turn that you can assign to any Pokemon that you want, which really speeds things up considerably. And then, like, matches, you only have to, like, knock out three Pokemon instead of. I think it's five in the main version of the game anyway. It goes so fast. It's so simple. I've been playing it with Henry and it is the perfect. Just like, open it up while you're sitting on the toilet, open a pack of cards, maybe do a match, hop in, hop out. It's not, like, amazing by any stretch of the imagination, but it is. I don't know. It's Scratching that sort of, like, tcgh itch for me. What I really want to talk about is maybe my biggest surprise of the year of games and is that I picked UFO 50 back up when there was a brief lull in the releases and I was like, by which means.

[Justin McElroy]

He didn't like the new Dragon Age game.

[Griffin McElroy]

By which I mean I did not like the new Dragon Age game. And I was like, you know, there's a couple games in here. I really liked it. I liked Party House. I liked Grimstone. I liked Pilot Quest. I'm just gonna, like, just dip into those and see how far I get. And then I finished all those games and was like, well, I'll try another one, and then I'll try another one. And Now I'm at 18 cherries, I think, out of 50.

[Ross Rocha]

That's crazy.

[Griffin McElroy]

The fucking immense amount of satisfaction I get out of picking up a game in that collection and trying it and saying, okay, like, I'm not gonna put this down until I get really good at it. And every game, it feels like that sort of arc is very achievable. Oh, man.

[Justin McElroy]

I tried to do the 4x1 that you recommended, Grif. Speaking of the arc.

[Griffin McElroy]

Aviana. Aviannis.

[Justin McElroy]

That one was tough.

[Griffin McElroy]

Aviannis. I will say this too. Like, what's really cool, what I am really enjoying about UFO 50 is that the community around this game is quite small, but they are really involved in, like, straight up schoolyard NES cheat codes level, like, helping people figure out what to do. So there's like, certain strategies in Avianos that are more effective than others. And so, like, that's cool. I cherry Avianos because I looked up, like, what am I missing here? What are some, like, different strategies that work once you get your, you know, feel for that? That one really, really, really got its teeth into me. The most satisfying one was Magic Garden, which is like the third game in the collection, I think. I love that one a lot, where you just run around and you collect the little blobs and you have to cash them in and drops potions. I played it and I fucking sucked at it so bad. But I was like, there's something cool happening here. And so for maybe like four or five hours, I just played it on flights and while chilling in a hotel room, getting better and better and better and better until finally on a flight home from a tour, I finally cherried it and it was so fucking.

[Justin McElroy]

You hate that verb, though. I hate the verb. If you could just not verb that again.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cherry. What do you not like about, is it? I don't sexual connotation to it that.

[Justin McElroy]

You don't have very unpleasant sexual connotation.

[Ross Rocha]

Cherry something.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, well, I beat. I beat it. As good as you could. As good as one can be.

[Justin McElroy]

Again, it's not sounding good to me.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, man. I just. I want to go back and do that episode over again because I feel like this game optimally requires a mental shift and an amount of investment into the games. And if you are willing to do that. What is amazing about this collection is all of the games are able to reward you for that. I fucking got the cherry on Mooncat.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, I love Mooncat.

[Griffin McElroy]

But it's also like a pretty obtuse game that I played for one minute and I was like, nope, not for me. This is crazy going into it.

[Justin McElroy]

How do you decide which ones you're gonna do this with?

[Griffin McElroy]

Gryffon, I think about which ones are most easily doable.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

So for Mooncat, like Mooncat, if you die, it just starts you over on the same screen you're on. And in order to get the cherry on it, you just have to beat it. Beat the different routes that are.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah, you don't need a perfect run.

[Griffin McElroy]

Don't need a perfect run. Very doable. Right. Then there's onion. Onion delivery, which fucking is brutal. And I don't think I will ever. Cherry. I tried that. I was like, I don't like playing this. I'm not. This is too much. I'll never.

[Justin McElroy]

So you do have to, like, like it on some level or at least be like engaged with it enough. You're like, let me see what else is going on here.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, right. And that's so interesting to me because, like, my first pass through it, I was like, I'm going to look for the games that are of the genre and are familiar to me in a way that I'm really going to get into. I don't like 4x strategy games, but I played Avianos and after a couple rounds I was like, there's something really cool here and I bet if I put more time into it, I can understand it. And I did. And that's awesome. That's very, very, very, very cool.

[Ross Rocha]

There are a few games in there that are like aspirational games that I really want to do, but I know I would have to take extensive notes to be able to finish them.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Ross Rocha]

One of them is Barbuda.

[Justin McElroy]

Barbuda.

[Ross Rocha]

I know I can beat Barbuda.

[Griffin McElroy]

Got the cherry on Barbuda. Nobody could work.

[Ross Rocha]

But I know I would only be able to do it and I would imagine this was the case for you if you like really had a lot of notes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, sure.

[Ross Rocha]

And then the other one is Mortal two, which is the open world version of Mortal. That also seems like design wise, totally my shit, but requires really precise routing through it.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes, yes. That one I have not even attempted to try and beat yet.

[Ross Rocha]

Mortal one rules though. That's probably my favorite in the collection.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, man. I could go on and on. I think it would be fun to do another UFO 50 episode if you all would ever think about getting back into it. Because I do think there is a ton going on here. There's a ton to talk about and a lot of what is amazing about the collection and the games inside of the collection, like really require you to want to like an archaeologist, like dig into them and figure out, like figure, figure them out. It feels like a conversation between you and the real developers and fictional developers of these games. And it is so, so satisfying once you can kind of let it get its hooks in you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think it could be a B segment down the line, but definitely it's gonna show up in the game of the year conversation. Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

It has skyrocketed up my list considerably. It is way, way, way the fuck up. It's 50 whole games.

[Ross Rocha]

That's true. Barbuda is number one.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Can I.

[Justin McElroy]

Has anybody watched any dusty old joints?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, I know you're setting me up for Hangover Square.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm trying to set you up for like an old classic, like not.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's an old classic, Hangover Square. I just, I brought it here because I felt like we didn't really like do enough to celebrate Guy Fawkes Day this year.

[Justin McElroy]

Thank you.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know, and that's on us. And you know, we were supposed to remember this day in November and we didn't.

[Ross Rocha]

We didn't even remember which day it was in November.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know, I always forget which day in November to remember, but Hangover Square is a classic, just nasty ass noir set during Guy Fawkes Day. And you got a dude who's like, he's just trying to write some music, he's trying to write some symphonies, but every time he hears a discordant noise, he goes into like a fugue state. And who knows what happens when he's. When he's heard a discordant noise.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know. Tell me. Cause I haven't seen the movie.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's getting trashy. I'm not gonna tell you, but here's the other thing I wanted to bring up is fresh. Can I spoil world of Goo 2 for our audience?

[Ross Rocha]

I guess so.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think that's okay.

[Ross Rocha]

Heads up. We're going to spoil World of Goo 2.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Speaking of games to maybe go back to, Jacob Geller released a video of games that contain their own sequels. And I won't go into many of those games, but one we've talked about on this show is the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe, which turns out to be a sequel to itself. World of Goo 2 is mostly just more World of Goo levels at the beginning, which we talked about on this show or one of these shows. But at a certain point, it time travels into the distant future, like thousands of years. And suddenly World of Goo is now set on a train that is like kind of Snowpiercer style, looping around the world endlessly. And then it time travels again and suddenly you are just getting effectively sequels to World of Goo, including a, like, Golfing World of Goo and ultimately a cyberpunk pixel noir adventure game. I wish I had. It is wild. I don't know if everybody needs to play this if they did not enjoy A World of Gutu as much as they'd hoped, like us, but this game is. I think it's like maybe like five or six hours long. You can watch a playthrough of it on YouTube and I strongly encourage it. And I definitely watch Jacob Keller's most recent video. I'll put that in the newsletter, too.

[Justin McElroy]

It makes it even more frustrating that they structured it the way they did with, like, hitting you over the head with the perfect run stuff. If, like, forward progress was really what they wanted you to do.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, that's a good point of like.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, I remember that number one complaint being that they hit that stuff so hard.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Yeah. Anybody got anything else?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I just. Super duper quick. I finished Dragon Age Vilgard without getting too negative because I did like it enough to play the whole thing. I think it runs out of good ideas before it runs out of content. There's a. There's a lot. A lot of just, like, content. And if you're loving it and you're deeply into the characters and everything and you're enjoying all that stuff, There is a lot of it there, but it's like, not. It gets less engaging. The difficulty and the powers and the abilities, it all kind of like levels off at a certain point and you can run down. It also does a very unpleasant thing, I think. Unpleasant when you're about to start the last mission, it's like, hey, you're going to start the last mission. Just so you know, here's how things are right now. If you start right now, a bunch of your people are going to die and most of the communities aren't going to help you because you haven't done enough quests. And it's like, well, I'm 25 hours in now. So it's like, do you want to see the bad ending that we have for you at 25 hours, or do you want to invest another 10 if you blaze through cutscenes to see the good ending? And it's like, well, gosh, guys, I don't love either of these. Actually. I don't love either of these options.

[Ross Rocha]

I guess it would have been like In Mass Effect 2, you, like, you go on the suicide mission and like, literally everyone dies.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, it's like it's. And it's laying it out like you could finish it now, but like, you wouldn't like it. If you want the good ending, you have to do all the stuff. And it's not like a, your choices will be reflected, right? It's not like a, you have to go see how all these things connect. It's. You have to complete this if you want the happy version.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Did you have enough time to get the good ending?

[Justin McElroy]

And it's like, I paid for the.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Game is what I paid.

[Ross Rocha]

Did you get the sense that any of your choices were making like major changes to the story or not really?

[Justin McElroy]

It all makes major changes, but it all feels like it's constructed around those choices, but not in a cogent way, but in a way that's very interactive. It's like very responsive to you. But it doesn't necessarily feel like a cogent ending. It feels like a bunch of response. It's like how you could choose for any character to love you by choosing their love dialogue enough times. It's like this isn't really interact. I mean, it's branching, but only in the sense that like I chose which one I was going to hit the heart button a lot on.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't know.

[Justin McElroy]

I also just wanted to say very quickly, the Jackbox Survey Scramble is the new Jackbox product and I had not heard about it and it's freaking great. And I'm thrilled because I love this kind of crap. Rather than doing creativity or trivia or anything like that, it is survey based questions, single word answers for the survey responses. And all the games are built around that core idea. So it's to give you an example sign words that you would see on a sign at Disneyland. Okay, bathroom. Bathroom. That's really good, Russ. That's probably in the top 10, right? So in one of the games, high, low, it's. Everybody's on their phones. Everybody enters an answer that they think will be like. At first you're trying to get the best, so highest possible answer. What's the best one? Everybody goes around the room, does their best guess, and then maybe later it'll be like, okay, now we want the lower end of this.

[Ross Rocha]

Cholera.

[Justin McElroy]

Cholera. Danger, death, poison. Right. Like, whatever it is. And then so you're trying to get a lower one, and so you're shooting for worse answers.

[Ross Rocha]

That's great.

[Justin McElroy]

There's a game where it's like a Pong style thing and you have a paddle here, and your paddle is on a spectrum from like 1 to 100, 1 being the best answers and 100 being the worst answers. So if you want to return service on this ball, you have to find a really good answer to the survey question or a really bad answer, depending on where you want the paddle to move to. There's also, like a speed game where everybody's trying to enter as many guesses as they can. For like one round we had for that was like grandma names. What's names of grandmas?

[Ross Rocha]

Ruth.

[Justin McElroy]

Ruth. Gertrude. Russ, I gotta say, man, you're incredibly. This is now the third time. And it's not even a bit. You just can't help yourself. You have to. And it's really. I love that. Like, I love the lack of pressure.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

For just sitting around a room full of people. And it's easy for kids, too. Kids can stumble into like, you know, Mickey on Disneyland signs. Oh, they're in the top three now. They crushed it. And the answers that you're inputting are folded into the data, which is evolving over time. So as you play and return to it, the answers, even if you got the same question again, the answers may not even be the same because it's folding in all of this survey data as you play.

[Ross Rocha]

When it's like a low answer, it needs to be something that was picked. So it can't be like gibberish. Right. It needs to be like a rank one.

[Justin McElroy]

Yes. But you are adding it just by putting it once.

[Ross Rocha]

Oh, I see.

[Justin McElroy]

Like the one time you enter it for the first time, it won't be on the list.

[Ross Rocha]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

But the next time, the list is not a fixed number. Right. There's 475 words that might be on Disneyland. I Don't know how many votes something needs to get for it to get like traction as something that makes the list.

[Ross Rocha]

But yeah, that's so smart.

[Justin McElroy]

It's really, really fun. I love jackbox stuff, but I also hate like winning at party games or losing at party games or people getting frustrated with games. It's really like you can't get. You can't feel dumb or frustrated because a hundred people didn't think the same thing as you. You know what I mean? It's great.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Real quick, just because I mentioned it and kind of talked around it earlier, Karate Survivor is the Vampire Survivors. Like that I said earlier it takes too long to get going. But I want to mention it because it is very interesting. It is a vampire Survivors game, but set against 1980s karate action movies. And it is very melee oriented. And the way that the combat works is there is a like string of film frames at the bottom. Like I think it's like six or seven individual frames. And you, as you get those upgrades that you do in Survivors games, you add a piece of combat as one of those frames and those pieces of combat that you add. So it's like a punch or a roundhouse or like a jumping kick. Some of them complement each other and if you pair them together, you can create these combos. And then the combat itself is melee based. So you have to really kind of get into the flood of enemies that are coming at you because you're delivering these different like karate combos. And as the game proceeds, you start to unlock the things that actually make it fun, which is like a great. Especially Jackie Chan did a lot of this environmental combat. So any like dishes or a broomstick or a baseball bat or a vase that's lying around, you can turn into a weapon or you can like roll over a table or slide under a piece of the environment and it gets really, really good. The only issue is you really do have to kind of endure almost an hour of this game where key features just are not available, like the ability to like roll away from enemies. So if you can get through that, there is something really special here. I think it will get patched. It seems like balancing this game is totally doable and once that happens, it'll definitely be on my top kind of. If you like this game, you should try it out. Yep.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cool. We talked about a lot of games this week.

[Ross Rocha]

We did do it planned video games.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, speaking of, what did we talk about this week? We talked about Windblown, we talked about Dragon Quest 3 HD 2D remake, redacted Mario and Luigi Brothers Ship Karate Survivor, Pokemon, the card game Pocket UFO 50 Dragon Age, the Veilguard Jackbox survey scramble and the film Hangover Square. You can find all of those and more on our newsletter at Besties fan, including that YouTube video by Jacob Geller that I mentioned.

[Ross Rocha]

I wanted to thank the following patrons. Patrons. We have Kevin. We have Spencer. We have Cague. I think that's how you pronounce that. Sorry. And we have Emily. Thank you for being [e-mail] thebesties thank you to everyone else who has supported it. We've got a new episode of the Rusty is up. We've got this month's episode of the Bracket battles up. So that's very exciting. Next week we are talking about a game that I haven't fully discussed with everyone on this podcast, but I think it's going to be genuinely a game of the year contender. I am totally smitten by this game and it has the worst name maybe of the entire.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, you want to do a whole episode about this one?

[Ross Rocha]

Yes. Yeah, I think it's going to be good for a whole episode.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm ready. What's it called?

[Ross Rocha]

The game is called Echo Point Nova.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's a great video game title, actually, if you think about it.

[Justin McElroy]

You think that now, but try to remember it in 90 minutes. I had to text Russ twice.

[Ross Rocha]

Yeah. So the game is called Echo Nova. It has pretty bad key art as well, so ignore that. But it rules and it's not crazy. I think it's gonna be really good.

[Justin McElroy]

It's wild that you're suggesting this quake bot. It's like, okay, we're gonna start.

[Ross Rocha]

I'm really excited.

[Justin McElroy]

All right. That is going to be next week's episode. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you are ready for it. I hope you will join us again next time for the best. Because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best games?