The Year of the Video Game Ninja

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Besties – "The Year of the Video Game Ninja"

Release Date: August 1, 2025
Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick

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1. Introduction and Banter

The episode kicks off with the hosts engaging in their characteristic humor, particularly focusing on Russ Frushtick's absence. Justin McElroy opens the conversation reflecting on missing Russ, stating, “It feels counterintuitive to miss Russ” (00:00). Griffin McElroy humorously adds, “Don’t it always seem like you don’t know the Russ you’ve got until he’s a parking lot” (00:20), highlighting the dynamic and playful camaraderie among the hosts.

2. Featured Game: Ninja Gaiden Ragebound

a. Overview and Return to 2D

The central focus of the episode is the discussion on Ninja Gaiden Ragebound, heralded as a significant return to the series' roots. Justin McElroy introduces the game enthusiastically: “Ninja Gaiden is back, but it's not in 3D like it's been for your past few decades. It's back in 2D like the true fans remember it. And not only that, but it's actually fun to play” (02:25). This marks a pivotal shift from the recent 3D iterations to a nostalgic 2D experience.

b. Gameplay Mechanics and Innovations

The hosts delve into the game's mechanics, praising its fluid action and modern enhancements. Christopher Thomas Plant explains, “It's doing some interesting things with... another ninja that has a long-range attack that feels different from what we would traditionally expect” (05:02). Griffin McElroy complements this by noting the game’s unique dynamics: “You have an aerial attack that you activate, like a double jump... it's a fascinating mechanic” (07:40). They highlight how these features blend retro gameplay with contemporary design elements, offering both challenge and strategy.

c. Visual Style and Animation

A significant point of discussion revolves around the game's visual aesthetics. Justin McElroy remarks, “It looks so cool... so much animation in every frame of this” (08:40), appreciating the vibrant and detailed animation that gives the game a cartoon-like charm. Christopher Thomas Plant adds, “It splices in a lot of cartoon visuals too... somewhere between the NES style cutscenes and like 1990s anime” (08:40), emphasizing the seamless integration of classic and modern visual styles.

d. Level Design and Difficulty

The hosts examine the game's level design and difficulty curve. Griffin McElroy shares his thoughts on the challenges, “So fucking hard, man. Holy shit, dude. They don't play around” (12:35). They discuss how the game balances difficulty with accessibility, noting features like adjustable damage settings: “You can turn down how much damage you take and how long your supercharge lasts” (14:04). Christopher Thomas Plant praises the game’s design, stating, “It was kind of a proto Speedrun-like platforming game” (09:30), highlighting the intricate balance between challenge and playability.

e. Narrative and Writing

The narrative aspects are also touched upon, particularly the unexpected depth in the game's storytelling. Griffin McElroy comments, “...joining with another ninja... it becomes like a conflict between the two of them sharing one form” (16:02), indicating a complex character dynamic that enriches the gameplay experience. The hosts appreciate the writing, noting, “It knows just the right amount of talkie” (16:59), suggesting that dialogue is effectively integrated without overshadowing the action.

f. Reception and Pricing

Finally, the hosts discuss the game’s reception and pricing strategy. Christopher Thomas Plant mentions, “The publisher Emu has like, kind of owned this $25 space” (19:03), placing Ninja Gaiden Ragebound alongside other quality titles in a competitive price bracket. Griffin McElroy adds, “It’s super polished... it definitely deserves recognition” (30:05), underscoring the game’s value and craftsmanship.

3. Other Games Discussed

a. Donkey Kong Banana

Justin McElroy and Griffin McElroy share their experiences with Donkey Kong Banana, highlighting its co-op mode and chaotic multiplayer antics. Griffin remarks, “Especially in the co-op mode... it feels like maybe there is no intended path to this thing” (26:07), discussing the game’s open-ended and flexible gameplay that fosters creativity and unexpected strategies.

b. Merge Maestro

Griffin introduces Merge Maestro, an iOS and Steam game that merges puzzle mechanics with strategic combat. Justin describes, “It's like a basic structure of a threes or 2048... with enemies spawning as you combine tiles” (34:40). The hosts praise its depth and replayability, noting its affordable price point of $3 and the compelling gameplay that has captivated Justin during his travels.

c. Maze Mice

Christopher Thomas Plant brings up Maze Mice, a game where players navigate mazes while avoiding increasingly numerous cats. Justin explains the mechanics: “Imagine you're a mouse... being trailed by cats... and you're leaving behind abilities to kill cats” (38:20). The game is lauded for its straightforward yet addictive gameplay and engaging visual style.

d. Wheel World

The hosts briefly touch upon Wheel World, a new bike-themed racing game from Messhoff, the creator of Nidhogg. Christopher describes the game as, “Just a good, chill out video game... everything is centered around bike culture” (40:57). Although the discussion is brief, Griffin expresses excitement for its unique thematic focus.

4. Listener Mail and Suggestions

The hosts engage with listener feedback, sharing suggestions and thoughts from their audience. One notable suggestion involves creating a new Mother Earthbound game with Toby Fox’s involvement. Christopher Thomas Plant writes, “Nintendo already has a pretty good relationship with him... it’s a good” (31:10), pondering the potential collaboration and its implications for fans.

5. Closing Remarks and Patreon Shoutouts

As the episode winds down, the hosts express gratitude to their listeners and encourage support through their Patreon. Justin McElroy mentions, “I got a Patreon. If you want to support this show... you can go to patreon.com/thebesties” (42:56). They highlight member contributions and tease upcoming content, ensuring listeners are engaged and informed about future episodes.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Ninja Gaiden is back... it’s back in 2D like the true fans remember it.” – Justin McElroy (02:25)
• “It looks so cool... so much animation in every frame of this.” – Justin McElroy (08:40)
• “So fucking hard, man. Holy shit, dude. They don't play around.” – Griffin McElroy (12:35)
• “It definitely deserves recognition.” – Griffin McElroy (30:05)

Timestamp References:

• 00:00 – Introduction and Russ absence
• 02:18 – Start of main content
• 05:02 – Gameplay mechanics
• 08:40 – Visual style
• 12:35 – Difficulty discussion
• 14:04 – Accessibility features
• 16:02 – Narrative elements
• 19:03 – Pricing and reception
• 26:07 – Donkey Kong Banana co-op mode
• 34:40 – Merge Maestro overview
• 38:20 – Maze Mice gameplay
• 40:57 – Wheel World introduction
• 31:10 – Listener mail on Mother Earthbound
• 42:56 – Patreon shoutouts

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Besties, the hosts deliver a comprehensive and engaging discussion centered around Ninja Gaiden Ragebound, exploring its return to 2D, innovative gameplay mechanics, stunning visuals, and challenging difficulty. They also share insights on other notable games like Donkey Kong Banana, Merge Maestro, and Maze Mice, enriching the conversation with personal anecdotes and listener interactions. True to their mission, Chris, Griffin, and Justin embody the essence of being "the world's best friends" by providing thoughtful and entertaining game reviews for their audience.

Transcript

[Justin McElroy]

It feels counterintuitive to miss Russ, but.

[Griffin McElroy]

How do you mean?

[Justin McElroy]

You know, it's like we complain so much about him being here, both to his face and behind his back, and it's like when he's not here, it feels weird that that wouldn't be, like, a relief, considering everything.

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, don't it always seem to go that you don't know the Russ you've got until he's a parking lot is how I feel. That's personally how I feel. But it's like, farmer, farmer, put away your ddts. I don't care about Russes in my apples. Leave me the birds and the bees.

[Justin McElroy]

You know, Chris, you probably know Russ personally a little better than.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, oh, is somebody at the door?

[Griffin McElroy]

It sounds like someone's at the door. I don't know who.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Justin, you mind opening it?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I'll get it. Creak.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, what's up? It's Newark Giraffe. You remember me? I live right across the. The river.

[Griffin McElroy]

How cow. How cowardly of you. How cowardly of you to conjure him when Russ isn't. It means you're afraid of Russ. Like the fact that you're bringing this out now.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Are you telling me my two best friends, New York Giraffe and Russ Frushnik, are not here?

[Justin McElroy]

It's like the parts in Rocky when he came.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I'm here to collect debt.

[Justin McElroy]

You know, in Rocky 6, you know, in Rocky VI when he can't add anymore?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like watching that. It's like that was a podcast.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, Newark Giraffe. I believe that the death that you're looking for, it's right out that window. Would you mind just looking right out?

[Justin McElroy]

He always does this.

[Griffin McElroy]

He kills him. He kills him. He fucking kills.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The window. It shut right on his head.

[Justin McElroy]

How does he grow?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know what I mean?

[Griffin McElroy]

He's got a dead giraffe. I know.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And he fell out the window. And we gotta clean up the 30th floor.

[Griffin McElroy]

Can you even imagine being scared of that?

[Justin McElroy]

My name is Justin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin Mackart. I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

And sadly, Russ Freshig is not here. But this is still the Besties, where we talk about the latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment. It is a video game club, and just by listening, you, my friend, have become one of our illustrious members. This week, we're going to be talking about Ninja Gaiden. Ragebound Chris Plant. What's that?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Ninja Gaiden is back, but it's not in 3D like it's been for you past few decades. It's back in 2D like the true fans remember it. And not only that, but it's actually fun to play. Yes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Whoa. Whoa.

[Justin McElroy]

Exciting.

[Griffin McElroy]

Huge change.

[Justin McElroy]

We'll talk about that and so much more right after this.

[Russ Freshig]

This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know the new era of power has arrived with the Alienware Area 51 gaming laptops and intentionally engineered to push more power to the CPU and GPU for maximum performance. This otherworldly power, paired with the game changing AI capabilities of Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series GPUs with DLSS4amplifies performance and image precision for ultra smooth, stunning gameplay. Fused with Alienware's enhanced thermal solutions, it creates a higher power output without raising noise levels, allowing you to play with confidence even during the most demanding marathon gaming sessions. So no matter what you're playing, Alienware ensures every game runs precisely as its developers intended. A new era of power is here. All you have to do is take it. Discover Area 51 [e-mail].

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Y'.

[Griffin McElroy]

All.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I was worried about this one.

[Justin McElroy]

Okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, same Ninja Gaiden, the nes games, the 2D ones, they're not especially fun going back. I'll be honest, even as a kid, they were not my favorite. They were just so mean and so tough and they had a kind of funky movement. I just didn't know if I was ready to go back.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I feel like a lot of 2D side scrolling action games are trying to capture the like imagined fluidity of Ninja Gaiden or like the fluidity of maybe like the animation. Ninja Gaiden has given them the impression that those games are very like fluid to play and comfortable to play, but they're not. They're very like stodgy action games.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, it's a lot of jumping way high up, real fast and then touching an enemy and going flying backwards 15ft. Yeah, it's not the most satisfying, but man, they done something. They cooked up something good in that game kitchen. They did some yummy work for us today.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Hoops. Can you describe kind of like how it works this go around?

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. So it is not unlike the Ninja Gaiden games of yore in that you're a little ninja and you're running back and forth in a 2D plane, which is a pivot from the most recent Ninja Gaiden. Games that have been a little bit more like 3D action based. This looks kind of like, if you're looking at it, like a dead cells kind of thing. But it's more, I would say kind of like level based. Not a rogue like in that, in that sense. But it's a very fluid sort of action game. It's doing some interesting things with like, in addition to the main, you know, your Hayabusa descendant kin, there's another ninja that has like a long range attack that feels different from what we would traditionally expect for one of these. It gives it a bit more of like a shooter running gun kind of feel. Komori, I believe is her name. But there are cool upgrades, all those kind of like modern things that you'd expect. But it does have a very like retro look and feel with some modern ideas that I think are kind of cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

It looks fucking great. The game Kitchen is the developer who I referenced earlier made the blasphemous games, which are also pretty gorgeous. Pixely little snacks. I really, really, really enjoy this game mostly because the Ninja Gaiden sort of loop of like run around really fast, climb up on that ceiling, dodge a bunch of bad guys hopping out of walls and smashing towards you. I find to be like, I don't know, it's hard, but it's also fairly straightforward. But every level throws little challenges at you and has little scarabs and skulls to find that are hidden everywhere that you spend on these permanent equippable upgrades that you can shop for between levels. I feel like adding that layer of kind of modern stuff really made the rest of the classic pretty tough as nails Ninja Gaiden experience like a hit pretty good for me.

[Justin McElroy]

Another thing that I think is cool that they have brought over is like your character kind of like magnetically sticks to ceilings and walls, which is a facet of the original Ninja Gaiden. That feels very on brand. But that helps it, I think to feel different from a lot of other games because you have to kind of think a little bit more vertically.

[Griffin McElroy]

You also have an aerial attack that you activate, like a double jump. And if you hit something with it, it gives you an extra sort of. I think it's called a Guillotine boost, which is a fucking kick ass name for a thing. So you spend a lot of time in these levels chaining together these aerial attacks and you know, sticking to the ceiling for a while and you know, dropping down to collect some treasure and you know, looking for all these secret things. I don't know, I've never really given much of a shit about this franchise at all, but this one has really hit for me.

[Justin McElroy]

It also like is. It looks so cool. It's like I mentioned like retro, but that doesn't even feel like it's so. There's like so richly animated. The detail is amazing. It almost look feels more like a. A cartoon. Like the way it's like. I know that this feels a little trite, but like there is so much animation in every frame of this. So much to look at. It's like super colorful and just like it's a joy to look at.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, it splices in a lot of cartoon visuals too. So while it does have that like chunky, pixelated aesthetic while you're playing, when you do special moves or you go into cutscenes, it's like somewhere between the NES style cutscenes and like 1990s anime from period like Ninja scroll, which again is I think kind of actually creating the thing that you were probably imagining while you were playing Ninja.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Back then.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, Blasphemous did that a lot too, of like blending together different animation styles to. To like a lot of like, you know, rotoscope inspired shit that would just kind of like appear out of nowhere or a boss who just like, you know, visually doesn't quite mesh with the rest of the gothic environment that you're exploring. I feel like this game throws that at you a lot.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh yeah. For people who played the original, the appeal was like the flow state of this game, especially in the early days compared to whatever else was available. Because yes, any damage basically meant you were wrecked. You had to just be sprinting like a ninja through the course, slashing, memorizing the layout of the thing. It was kind of like a proto Speedrun y type of platforming game. And this does a really good job of that in that if you do get hit, it doesn't immediately mean death. You do have a health bar and you can refill it at these various checkpoints. But more importantly, it adds kind of systems to complicate the lines, the flows that you're creating. So what I mean by that is there's very, very heavy enemies. Enemies that have shields that you either can't break through or they will take tons and tons of hits. But there are special attacks that you can unlock that are tied to weaker enemies. So you might see like a little bat that has a glowing red ember above it. You shoot that with your little projectile and suddenly now you have a superpowered projectile for whatever your next damage. Is so it becomes this, like, flow of. Okay, I see that heavy coming up, but I don't want to take them on directly. So I'm gonna look for weaker enemies to unlock my super move to then take out that heavy and just keep this constant sense of motion rather than like ever stopping to just spam the attack button. It wants your balls to be running.

[Griffin McElroy]

You can also charge to harm yourself, which will temporarily put you in that supercharged state. And man, like, going through a whole screen in the way you can tell the developers sort of intended of like chaining together. Like, you kill that enemy to get supercharged, and then you use that supercharged attack to kill this other enemy, which unlocks the next wave of supercharged, so you can chain it right to the next guy. Like, it feels. It feels very, very, very. You feel very good at video games whenever it pans out, and that's a very satisfying feeling.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Did any of you do the bonus content or the extra levels?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. So one of the things hidden in each of the levels, in addition to, like, the currency you spend on these equippable upgrades, you can find secret ops which are usually. I can't tell if they. Do they use the same maps or is it just sort of like the same texture, background, same assets, but different? Yeah, but usually with, like, way more specific, like, usually way more difficult challenges. Like, sometimes you'll get in a level that will be quite short, but it's like a really intense platforming section. And one of the challenges is like, don't get hit at all. And as you. When you complete those challenges, you get like a ranking at the end of every level. And if you rank high enough, then it adds more stuff to the shop. And so it all kind of feeds back into itself. Yeah, no, I've been really. Everything I've been unlocking in this game, I have been dipping back into mostly because I want to keep getting the weapons.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

What did you think of the difficulty curve for the bosses?

[Griffin McElroy]

So fucking hard, man. Holy shit, dude. They don't play around. Like, some of the levels are tough, but most of the time you can die without any sort of, you know, repercussions. Maybe you'll fail a mission if one of the missions for the level is like, don't die.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

But you can sort of. You eventually figure your way out and you get through it and you get to the boss.

[Justin McElroy]

Usually it's like, it's kind of a fool me once, shame on you kind of situation. You'll rush into something too fast, like, ah, Dang it, Okay, I get what we're doing here. And then you try again.

[Griffin McElroy]

You nail it, you'll hit the bosses. And the bosses are very much, you know, pattern recognition that you have to learn. You have to figure out what it means when the boss starts to charge up this thing, what you should be ready to do, how you can get a supercharged, and how you can use it to interrupt some attack. All that stuff is kind of what you'd expect from a game of this genre. But your attacks do just baby shit damage. And so you have to maintain this perfect state of pattern recognition and getting in your hits when you can forget for really long, extended periods of time. And it is, which is.

[Justin McElroy]

It's only a bummer because it feels like you're playing a different game for a little bit. It feels like the fluidity and the speed that sort of like makes the game work so well. Like, not to say everything has to be the same, but like, you know, you would never see like a dead cells slow down for so long and like, stop you for so long when like a run is so much about, like, fluidity.

[Griffin McElroy]

But yeah, it was definitely the biggest hangups for me. There is an accessibility sort of menu where you can go in and I really appreciate when games do this and you can go in and very granularly adjust stuff to make the game sort of to the level of difficulty that you want it. You can't turn up how much damage you do, but you can turn down how much damage you take and how long your supercharge lasts after you get it. If you don't use your supercharge attack quickly enough, it goes away. But you can extend that amount of time, which makes chaining together some of the sections a little bit easier. And so I did dip into those to get past one or two of the bosses because they really beat my ass up and down.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, I spent probably an hour last night on just one boss, mostly because I feel like it's a troll. Maybe there's a way to play this quote right, but it's this giant creature who throws spikes into the walls. And one of the three spikes that he throw allows you to get that supercharge, right? So then you want to, like, get that and then knock him down. The problem is it's all a trap every time. One, there's spikes, so if you jump at them, you will get hit. Half the time you're even trying to chop them up. Two, he charges at whatever, wherever he's throwing the spikes. So it took me, I don't know. 30 minutes of finally just accepting, oh, I need to just ignore this entirely and just like stick and poke him over and over and over again. And then I did great. Which on one hand is like clever and on the other hand a very weird thing. Like you said Hoops to have a boss fight. Literally the strategy is ignore everything that you've learned so far.

[Justin McElroy]

Right?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. It doesn't feel. It feels kind of like shit. After another hour of that super fun.

[Griffin McElroy]

Writing, which I wasn't really expecting. The premise is that you are Ryu Hayabusa's not son. No. Is the relationship established? You're like in his clan.

[Justin McElroy]

You defend the village while he's out.

[Griffin McElroy]

And about doing close, by the way. But you go out on your own adventure. And in so doing you meet this ninja from an opposing evil corporate clan who ends up kind of like merging with you a little bit to sort of like blend Yalls powers and the conversations between the two of them. I don't know. I feel like the game really shifted on a dime as soon as she comes along and kind of like joins your body, I guess. Because then it becomes like a conflict between the two of them sharing one form. I don't know. I was surprised. I was not expecting like pleasant writing from the Ninja Gaiden Ragebound game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But it knows just the right amount of talkie.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yes. Yeah. Start of each level, you get like four sentences and then it's time to go.

[Justin McElroy]

It's interesting, this franchise too. It's worth talking about. I think we should have maybe discussed this during the historical section. But it is wild the amount of time this franchise has been dormant. I mean, and we have three games this year. Like it's kind. You know what I mean? Like the last one was like Yaiba Ninja Gaiden Z in 2014, which is like a non entity.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's crazy.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean Ninja Gaiden 4 is coming out later this year which is a sequel to Ninja Gaiden 3 from 2012. So it's like, it's wild.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's getting the Prince of Persia glow where it's all just hitting all at the same time. I'm here for it, man. I think Game Kitchen makes tight ass 2D platformers and they could have done this with any franchise and it would have been great. And I think that they have done. I don't know what the Ninja Gaiden hardcores think about it because there is an element of forgiveness to it. I feel like in the way that you can modify your Loadout to make things a little bit easier here and there. And like, there's no lives, so it's not like dying is the most punishing thing in the world. I found it, you know, the boss fights are tough as shit, but otherwise I found it, like, surprisingly approachable. And I don't know if that's a thing that the, you know, devotees of this. Of this series are gonna be a fan of, but I don't know. I think it's great. And I'm glad I didn't let the Ninja Gaiden name sort of scare me off, because that is not one that I find sort of appealing.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

They. I will say for the hardcore out there, there are unlocks similar to Skulls and Halo that can make the game harder. Trinity, like that. That's your path. If you are that sort of, you know, sicko.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, it's one of the things you can buy with the currency of the game. And I bought a couple of them thinking like, because if you beat a level with the skull, you know, these. These hard modifiers unlocked and it increases your ranking at the end of the level. I was like, hell yeah, man. I'm gonna. I put them on for one level. I was like, no way, man. No way.

[Justin McElroy]

So it's 25, it looks like on Switch. I'm assuming that that's pretty like across the board.

[Griffin McElroy]

The.

[Justin McElroy]

The for. For that 25 is like, feels about right, right. It's a little. It's kind of like in the. In the. In that weird middle ground between the AAA and the like, real indie stuff.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Super, super polished, I think.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. The publisher Emu has like, kind of owned this $25 space. They released Streets of Rage 4 for that. They have metal slug tactics that came out for that. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Shredder's Revenge. It seems like they are designing and budgeting games for a kind of a price point that they're creating.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Cool.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Very cool. Let's take a break and then when we come back, we can go ape.

[Russ Freshig]

This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. A new era of power has arrived with the Alienware Area 51 Gaming laptops intentionally engineered to push more power to the CPU and GPU for maximum performance. This otherworldly power, paired with the game changing AI capabilities of Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series GPUs with DLSS4amplifies performance and image precision for ultra smooth, stunning gameplay. And with the new cryo chamber design, airflow is focused exactly where it's needed most. So no matter what you're playing, Alienware ensures that every game runs precisely as its developers intended. A new era of power is here. All you have to do is take it. Discover Area 51 [e-mail].

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

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[Justin McElroy]

So Griffin and I were out last week while you and Freshstick got to talk about Donkey Kong Banana. And Griffin and I spent, you know, quite a bit of time playing it. And we thought that we could like, kind of see what each other thought about it. See whatever. Let me start with this as a catch up. Where did you and Russ shake out?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You know what? Pretty good. I'm gonna say Nintendo. They still got it. They haven't lost a fastball. You know, I mean, we talked about all the basics and you go start wherever you'd like.

[Griffin McElroy]

This is a fun one because this is, I think maybe the first game we have covered on this show where, you know, Henry is old enough. Henry's eight and he's old enough now that, like, he can follow gaming news. And he knew this game was coming out, was Excited. We were excited to play it together and then we did. And then he kept playing it by himself so much that I found it quite difficult to formulate cogent thoughts. Cause I would be playing it with him and be like, oh, this is great. I get it. I get what this game's all about. And then I would come back and he would be like a fucking huge, super hot, super muscular zebra man. And it's like, what the f. What hap. What? Who is that guy? What happened? But from what I have played, it's a lot of fucking fun. Especially in the co op mode that they have introduced, which I think is a brave and bold innovation.

[Justin McElroy]

Utterly chaotic. It's barely even a video game at that point. You give it to a child. It's really. It's more of like a music visualizer. Like it's no longer.

[Griffin McElroy]

Did you all talk about the co op stuff last week? Chris?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

We talked about it. Just that it's so nice to be able to play with a kid and that it's like how. Yeah, exactly. That I think. I think what I'm loving about new Nintendo, and this is the epitome of it, is they do not care if you break their game and not just break their game in like the old school sense of like, oh, you have too many lives. Or the original Mario thing of like, you can exit the game's geometry. But like on a second to second experience in this game, it looks broken. Like when you are digging through the walls, it looks like it's clipping and they've just embraced that aesthetic and it carries in every single direction. They do not care as long as you are having fun.

[Justin McElroy]

Really smart. I think the directional punching, the up forward and down is. It seems silly, but like it is so smart, I think because what it does is it sort of. It eliminates a lot of that orientation discussion. Because if I can push a button and he'll punch up, I know that's up. Right? So I can always go in an up kind of fashion if I need to. That's really smart. And I feel like these controllers have all these buttons. Yeah, man. Thanks. Let me punch in a lot of different ways. That's great. Great fun. Good job. I always want to punch down. Thank you.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's such a. Philosophically, it feels so different from Odyssey, which is, I think, interesting only because, you know, it's made by the same team and has the same kind of look about it. But whereas like Odyssey, I feel like I spent the whole time looking around for stuff that I would be like, oh, there's definitely a moon hidden there. Like, there's definitely, definitely, definitely something there. In this game, it is not as apparent. And while in Odyssey, when you would get to one of those places, you'd be like, oh, okay, I kind of think I know what I need to do. I kind of think I know what they have set up for me to accomplish here so I can get this hidden moon in Bonanza. Especially when you're playing in co op Mode, where Player 2 is, you know, Pauline as an AC130, just showering the ground with exploding words, it feels like maybe there is no intended path to this thing. Or if there is, I have wandered so fucking far from it. And I cannot believe the solution that me and my son have stumbled onto actually worked. And that's crazy that that is true.

[Justin McElroy]

Speaking of surprising solutions, my daughter and I, Cooper and I turned this. She turned it into something more like a competitive game where I was trying to complete the level, and she was absorbing explosives and trying to destroy the things that I needed to make progress. So I would be climbing. She would then blow up the wall so I couldn't use the wall, and she would demand that I would return to explosive creatures to let her absorb their explosive powers. So I would try to avoid those at all costs. So that was the give and take, is that I would try to keep her away from the explosives. And then if she absorbed them, then she would sort of, like, stop my progress for as long as she could.

[Griffin McElroy]

It really, really lets you just fuck a lot of stuff up. There's a lot of places where you get somewhere and be like, oh, I see. Donkey Kong is supposed to go up to this exploding guy and a chunk of him and then throw it at this pillar so that he can get up high enough to then throw another explosive at this concrete wall. Meanwhile, Henry could just be like. And destroy the thing without having to do any of the extra stuff. I don't know, man. I think it's genuinely, genuinely great. I liked this game, okay, when I was playing it by myself, I really, really loved it when I was playing it in Co op.

[Justin McElroy]

I know it. It probably seems silly, but I play. I found myself playing this game just for fun. And, you know, that's not that common for me anymore, but I just really get a kick out of trying to see how much of a thing I can destroy, Trying to wipe it clean, seeing what's hidden underneath. It all feels like virtuous cycle. Like, all of the destruction you do feeds into better capabilities in that. And so like nothing ever feels like wasted like you're destroying. But it's all purposeful because you're constantly getting stuff that improves the experience.

[Griffin McElroy]

And those red Faction ass submissions where it's just like, destroy this building as fast as you can. Very much was like, zoom into my memories. Ratatouille style. On the surface of Mars, the art.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Style is so great too. It is this Tex Avery type of approach. It's not doing the Walt Disney preciousness like Donkey Kong is a weirdo in this game. He's just weird. He looks all the little like load screens make him look like a total goofball. It's kind of written stimpy ish in a certain way. It's a little gross to look at at times.

[Justin McElroy]

I see. I feel like Donkey Kong is just kind of pure aisle. I think he's just kind of a gross guy. But embracing may not even be the art. He's just like, nasty.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I think that's a great choice. And he is a dirty boy. And you do see his bottom, you know, so like, how could you not.

[Griffin McElroy]

Make that so fucked up? How they give him pants and then immediately take the pants away? Like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

No, that's part of the tease.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I think it's just great. I think it will have an interesting legacy because I don't think it is, you know, Super Mario Odyssey, which I know a lot of people are sort of clamoring for. I don't think it is as like, polished in the mechanics of it, but I think that it also has. I don't think Nintendo's made a game quite like it before and that it definitely deserves recognition for that.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's a great playground and it's a lot of fun and it's a great. It is also. And I mean, we knew this would happen, but it has also had this effect of like, its glow has elevated the Switch 2. In my approximation, like the Switch 2 feels more like I found myself seeking it out in a way that I haven't done.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean, yeah, if this had been a launch. Launch game, I don't know. I think the conversation about the Switch 2, which was already pretty good, would have been a lot. A lot sweeter on it. Yeah, yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Hey, we got some reader mail. Want me to open the mail pack?

[Griffin McElroy]

Please, please.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This one is from Big five. Easy cheat code to make a new Mother Earthbound game. Get Toby Fox involved. Nintendo already has a pretty good relationship with him with his involvement with the Pokemon soundtracks and Deltarune being a Switch 2 launch title and Toby Fox fans will eat up anything with his name on it. But particularly that seems to be the kind of project Toby Fox would love to work on. Given how much of his game dev roots come from Earthbound, I think this is good. But does Toby Fox even need.

[Griffin McElroy]

Does he want that? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's how from what I remember, he started out in the under. Not Undertale. That's the one he made. Earthbound.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Starman.net, probably. Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like the mods and the translations and all that jazz. There's definitely a lot of similarities there. But one, I think he's going to be making deltarune for a good long fucking time. And yeah, too. Like, I don't know if that's something he would even want to do.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I could see him doing music for it and it being.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, it would be fucked up. It would be fucked up if someone made it, though.

[Justin McElroy]

This is actually a good point.

[Griffin McElroy]

If someone made it and he was not involved to some extent, that would be pretty wild.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. Yeah. This one we've got from Dayton. I've been really surprised to hear people confused about the new Kirby Air Ride. I grew up in the GameCube generation and feel a sense of incredible fondness for that game from other people who played it. I wonder if the generation getting nostalgic reboots and re releases is just aging up. We certainly have plenty of PS1 nostalgia in the past year or two.

[Griffin McElroy]

Totally fair observation. Like if you were a kid of a certain age when GameCube came out and you were sucking the nutrients out of every release that they deigned to give you, I imagine that the nostalgia factor would be quite high. For me, it is virtually nonexistent. Did not play Kirby's Air Ride, but maybe once or twice at a friend's house.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, I'm just excited because Sakurai making a game that's not Smash Brothers is a thing to be excited about.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, I'm excited. But it's purely, you know, we love this Pink man.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm excited anytime anybody's not making Smash Brothers.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, that's weird. I had this thought yesterday. Isn't it kind of weird that there's not like a Switch 2 version of Smash Bros Ultimate? Doesn't seem kind of weird. Doesn't that seem like a tent pole ass thing that people are still fucking playing that you would want to, you know, whatever they want to.

[Justin McElroy]

Right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Get an extra 10 bucks a pop out of people for.

[Justin McElroy]

Wait till they need that money.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's probably it is that they. They're gonna, you know, walk this dog for as long as they can. That will get that maybe that's this Christmas, right? They need some big fancy refresh for Christmas, and that seems like the right time to do.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, but they would. I don't know that they would have the courage of their convictions to do that without adding more characters to the roster. And they've been so explicit, like, we're fucking done, man. We put more stages. We put Minecraft Steve in there. We can't fucking do anymore. We're done.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

And the chicken jockey. Yeah. Should we talk about what else we're playing? Y' all got any other good stuff going on?

[Griffin McElroy]

Did y' all talk about Merge Maestro last week?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't believe so.

[Griffin McElroy]

Fuck yeah, dude.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's good. Griffin made me play it. It's good.

[Griffin McElroy]

Merge Maestro is an iOS game. I believe it's also on Steam, maybe a couple other platforms. It is sort of like a basic structure of a threes or 2048. Was that the name of the other one where you have a board with 16 slots on it. You are dropping these tiles numbered 1 through 8 on it, and you combine, like, tiles to make the next highest one. If you have a one on the board and you drag another one on top of it, it turns into a two. As this is happening, enemies are spawning in slots across from your board. And the point of the game is to take them out before they can attack and kill you. Between each sort of, like, set of waves of new enemies coming in, you go to a shop where you swap out one of your sort of, like, featureless numbered tokens for one that gives you some sort of ability, some sort of power. Maybe this one does multiple attacks whenever it spawns in. Maybe this one creates some sort of buffing item whenever it is destroyed. There's like a dozen different ways that these things trigger and synergize. And there's like a million different ways that you can kind of, like, build a strategy to complete a game which goes through 15 different waves of enemies. There's also, like, you know, constant perks that you will unlock every five waves, which will really inform the strategy that you go with. And they'll be like, you know, you're number three token triggers two more times. It's just like there's also, I think, 10 different sets of 20 tokens, and every time you play, it mixes together five of those sets to create, like, a new deck. So you don't really know what you're Gonna have whenever you, you know, start a new round, then there's like Balatro style, like different difficulties. And if you get certain win streaks on those difficulties, you'll unlock new challenges and new sets and new boards and like there's just much shit. And this game is $3. It's just. And it really, really, really fully consumed me, I will say. When we were traveling last week, I spent a lot of time in the car just sort of trying to knock out some of the challenges on my phone. But it is very, it's great, man. It has the aesthetic of a super auto pets, sort of like a very emoji style interface, but don't let that turn you off. There's so, so, so much game here. And I found myself very, very compelled by it also. We finished watching the studio. Have you guys talked about that one? Yeah. The Seth Rogen comedy about a team of creative executives at a high profile movie house in Hollywood and his sort of foibles in trying to run the company. It's very, very funny, Very ambitious sort of stuff. I mostly wanted to watch it because every single person who was on it got nominated for Golden Globes, some of whom were in an episode featuring fake Golden Globes. So it's very inward looking, this program. But I really liked it.

[Justin McElroy]

You guys talked about maze mice last time, right?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, it's really. Griffin, you played maze mice.

[Griffin McElroy]

Nah, I didn't play. I didn't play maze mice.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You've been enjoying it, man.

[Justin McElroy]

Maze mice is okay. Imagine you're a mouse, okay? And you're on a Pac man style maze and you're running around the maze trying to eat all the delicious cheese in the maze. But here's the thing about it. You're being trailed by cats. And as you pass by other cats, they start trailing you too, until you have an increasingly long line of cats. But as you are picking up upgrade, as you're picking up the GS of power, you're getting more and more powerful and you're getting upgrades in the fashion of like vampire survivors. So maybe you start leaving behind a trail of fire to kill cats, or maybe you start shooting spikes at any cats that are near you, et cetera, et cetera. And so you can kind of build a strategy around how you're going to eliminate cats. Now, as long as you can stay ahead of the cats in the maze, you're probably okay until the line gets too long and they start to cut you off. That's bad. And then there's also free floating enemies that are not constrained by the mice that are trying to get you. So you're like having to deal with those and eat all the power ups so you could keep leveling up your.

[Griffin McElroy]

You know, your cat killing abilities. These are nasty looking cats, by the way. Like there's probably people hearing this thinking like that's awful.

[Justin McElroy]

If you could see these cats, they are nasty kitties. So it's a very. It's like a. It's like one of those like two great tastes kind of things. It just like, it just works. It's fun. It's. It is. It works in a very predictable way. But that doesn't mean that it don't work. So I like it a lot.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's the same Dev as Luck Be a Landlord also, which is also sort of similar to Merge Maestro for sure. But yeah, this looks like. What are you playing this on? Steam. Steam.

[Justin McElroy]

Steam Deck.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. Yeah, I will definitely check this out.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Speaking of games that can be broken, one of our listeners sent us a video of it on Steam Deck where they had gotten a perfect build and it was just slowly degrading the Steam Deck's quality. Like literally hands off. Checking in on it every 15 minutes. After three hours, the steam deck was moving at like two frames per second.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's great.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

As hordes of mice or cats got destroyed. It was very good.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cool.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. The only thing that I have. And we'll be talking more about this on the next episode of the Resties. But Wheel World, do you know about this?

[Justin McElroy]

No. Is it a racing game?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Kind of, yeah. It's a bike, a cycle racing game. But Griffin, you'll be most excited because it's the new game from Messhoff, the creator of Nidhog.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's what I thought. That's what. Just based on the.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. And it's just a good, chill out video game. I mean, you know me, I love games like that remake of SSX or Steep, where you just flow through a really pretty environment and that's this. I mean it's hoops. Speaking in theme park terms. You know, the cars land in Disneyland when you go and it's like everything is just an ode to cars.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, I can imagine. I've never been. But I get what you're saying.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Now I have to get you out of California. It's like that.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh no, no, no. I was within five feet of it. I just didn't want to waste my time. I've been to Disney World, so.

[Griffin McElroy]

Jesus Christ. That's.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I went to Downtown Disney. I just wasn't gonna walk all the way over to Disneyland? No, thanks, man.

[Griffin McElroy]

You weren't gonna walk all the way over to Disneyland? Because the guilt we would have felt going to Disneyland without our children would have been unbearable.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. Just like I've been to world. It's like bigger, you know, I can imagine it bigger.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. It's inherently better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so there's this. There's this, like, you know, trashy little place called Disneyland. And they do have a cars theme park where everything is node to cars. Real world is like that, but for bikes, where everything in this world is centered around bike culture. From, like, the only thing people want to do is talk about bikes. They want to sell bike parts. All of the, like, ancient statues are based off of bikes.

[Justin McElroy]

I love that in video games. That's like my favorite video game trip. What was the monster hunting game where it was like a resort island, but literally every conversation was just always about monster hunting because, like, why do you want to talk about other stuff?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You mean Pokemon?

[Griffin McElroy]

Dungeons of Hinterberg?

[Justin McElroy]

Dungeons of Hinterburg? God, that was a good game. Yeah.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. But, yeah, I'll be talking about this more with our boy Fresh. So if you want to hear more about this game and other stuff, we'll see. Listen to the resties. That is it. I think we did it. Do we have anything else?

[Justin McElroy]

No, no.

[Griffin McElroy]

Cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Got some thank yous.

[Griffin McElroy]

Any more, you greedy hog. I'd like to thank you.

[Justin McElroy]

I could tell them about our Patreon. That's okay.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, yeah, let's do that.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I got a Patreon. If you want to support this show, if you like what we do, you can go to patreon.com thebesties you can also gift a membership at patreon.com thebesties gift sl. No, sorry. The besties slash gift. Thanks to members this week, people like Bryson and James and Dave and Freud's hot mom. Next week, what are we doing?

[Griffin McElroy]

It says here, no way, dude.

[Justin McElroy]

Nay fresh. No way, dude.

[Griffin McElroy]

It says here. I think next week is going to be a little bit up for grabs. There is the System Shock 2 remake, which I don't know that I would have a lot to say about.

[Justin McElroy]

I'll be here, guys. Do whatever you want.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, that's a good point.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, thanks.

[Griffin McElroy]

Grounded 2 just hit early access.

[Justin McElroy]

I might jump into that next week. Grounded two.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm not here. Well, you're not gonna be here, so.

[Justin McElroy]

We'Ll do both Doubleheader grounded two. And.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, we'll talk about something next week, and it's gonna be fucking great. So just, like, chill out.

[Justin McElroy]

Just be calm. That's gonna do it for us. Until next time, be sure to join us again on the Besties, because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best game.

[Griffin McElroy]

Besties?