Wanderstop Performs an Autopsy on the Cozy Game Genre

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: "Wanderstop Performs an Autopsy on the Cozy Game Genre"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Besties
• Hosts: Chris Plante, Griffin McElroy, Justin McElroy, Russ Frushtick
• Episode Title: Wanderstop Performs an Autopsy on the Cozy Game Genre
• Release Date: March 14, 2025
• Description: Four of Earth’s best friends rank and review their favorite video games, blending humor and insightful discussions to explore what makes a game truly great.

---

1. Opening Banter and Hardware Discussions (00:00 - 05:17)

The episode kicks off with light-hearted conversations about Justin McElroy's new purchase of a ROG Ally X handheld gaming device. Swift exchanges between Russ Rush and Griffin McElroy highlight the camaraderie and playful teasing among the hosts.

Notable Quote:

• Justin McElroy (00:07): “It's a cat. Is it because your brother got one and you were... you felt a little.”

This segment sets a relaxed tone, illustrating the hosts' dynamic before delving into the main topic of the game Wanderstop.

2. Introduction to Wanderstop (05:17 - 14:00)

After a brief sponsored segment, the hosts introduce Wanderstop, a game positioning itself within the cozy genre. Chris Plant provides an overview, emphasizing that while the game may appear simple—managing a tea shop and gardening—it delves deeper into nuanced themes.

Notable Quote:

• Chris Plant (03:16): “Wander Stop presents itself as a cozy game where you manage a farm effectively growing different plants and shrubs... But it is much more than that, and we'll explain why and how after the break.”

This introduction sets the stage for a comprehensive analysis of Wanderstop’s mechanics and thematic depth.

3. Game Mechanics and Design (14:00 - 19:00)

The hosts dissect Wanderstop’s gameplay, noting its departure from standard progression systems found in cozy games. Unlike titles that offer character upgrades or farming expansions, Wanderstop emphasizes a static environment where actions reset after narrative breaks.

Notable Quotes:

• Griffin McElroy (05:24): “If you're not grinding green seeds from the first frames of this game, then you're already a noob.”
• Griffin McElroy (07:36): “Her mission is to chill. Her objective is to rest and relax. Right. And so the extent to which that informs the rest of the game is really bold and completely comprehensive.”

This segment highlights the game’s minimalist mechanics, focusing on relaxation and narrative over traditional gaming incentives.

4. Themes and Emotional Impact (19:00 - 27:56)

Griffin McElroy leads an in-depth discussion on the game's exploration of burnout. He compares Wanderstop to titles like The Stanley Parable and Journey, praising its ability to challenge conventional game design by removing typical motivational structures.

Notable Quotes:

• Griffin McElroy (09:20): “It's all part of a bigger picture and a bigger sort of story that this game tells about Burnout... How do you balance ambition with not making yourself miserable?”
• Justin McElroy (10:53): “Wanderstop is sort of... it's admirable in that it isn't just a commentary and it isn't just a thought starter and it isn't just a criticism. It's like it has the strength to be a game.”

The conversation underscores Wanderstop’s unique approach to conveying complex emotional states, making it a standout in narrative-driven gaming.

5. Listener Mail and Critique of Split Fiction (37:11 - 45:16)

Following a brief interlude and another sponsored segment, the hosts engage with listener feedback, particularly addressing critiques of Split Fiction, a game discussed in a previous episode. The discussion becomes candid as Justin McElroy expresses strong negative opinions about the game's writing and narrative execution.

Notable Quotes:

• Justin McElroy (40:02): “We're not gonna heal this rift. Everyone listening to this. If you like Hazelight games, you are wrong. They are poorly written. We are right.”
• Russ Rush (40:31): “Yes, I think it's a game about stillness and being present...”

This segment showcases the hosts' willingness to voice honest opinions, even if it means critiquing well-regarded games within the community.

6. Hardware Deep Dive: ROG Ally X vs. Steam Deck (45:16 - 64:24)

The conversation shifts back to hardware as the hosts discuss the merits and challenges of the ROG Ally X compared to the Steam Deck. Justin McElroy shares his experiences customizing the ROG Ally X, including installing various Linux distros to enhance gaming performance.

Notable Quotes:

• Justin McElroy (55:29): “I have switched a few times. I was on Ubuntu and then I switched to Linux Mint because I was interested in seeing Linux Mint...”
• Russ Rush (59:36): “Unless you're trying to play something more intensive, you're probably better off just sticking with a Steam Deck.”

This technical discussion highlights the trade-offs between customization flexibility and user-friendliness, providing valuable insights for gamers contemplating their handheld gaming options.

7. Final Thoughts and Upcoming Episodes (64:24 - 68:44)

As the episode winds down, the hosts reflect on their discussions, expressing appreciation for the deep dive into Wanderstop and the ongoing conversations about game design and player experience. They also tease future episodes, including an upcoming focus on Assassin's Creed and a grab bag episode featuring smaller titles.

Notable Quote:

• Griffin McElroy (67:35): “I love it. I do think that it is gonna differ person to person on how much of a pass you're willing to give it...”

The episode concludes with a blend of humor and anticipation for future content, maintaining the engaging and personable atmosphere that characterizes The Besties.

---

Conclusion:

This episode of The Besties offers a thorough exploration of Wanderstop, examining its innovative approach to the cozy game genre. The hosts provide insightful critiques on game mechanics, narrative depth, and emotional resonance, supported by candid discussions and listener interactions. Additionally, their technical examination of gaming hardware enriches the conversation, catering to both casual listeners and dedicated gamers. Overall, the episode balances analytical discourse with the trademark humor and camaraderie of The Besties, making it a compelling listen for anyone interested in game design and player experience.

Transcript

[Justin McElroy]

I got a. A Rog. Ally X. Because I'm going to be traveling.

[Russ Rush]

It's a cat. Is it because your brother got one and you were. You felt a little.

[Griffin McElroy]

Exactly.

[Justin McElroy]

I mean, not even a question. I won't even. I'm 44 years old. I'm done pretending. Yeah, yeah. 100. He had one. I didn't even know what it was. Didn't even know if I wanted it just sounded fun.

[Griffin McElroy]

He had it. I can't have one on tour. And then Justin sees it and it's like, he does 100% because then he'll have to find a Best Buy that this is easy.

[Justin McElroy]

Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Russ. Yeah. But then I am gonna be traveling to Ireland and I got a case for it, obviously, because wanna be safe. And then I was like, this is gonna be perfect. And then I got the case.

[Russ Rush]

Uh. Oh.

[Justin McElroy]

And I don't actually think.

[Russ Rush]

Oh, no.

[Justin McElroy]

That I am actually going to be. I don't think I'm going to be having a giant case.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Justin's currently. For our audio listeners, which is everyone. Justin is currently holding up a case, the dimensions of which I would say about 6 inches deep, maybe 8 inches wide, and then about a foot and a half long. And it does have a big strap around it that says Republic of Gamers in enormous, unignorable letters.

[Justin McElroy]

So that's me from the Republic of Gamers. This is my briefcase. We've come with an offer to you.

[Griffin McElroy]

It does look like something that.

[Justin McElroy]

They.

[Griffin McElroy]

Would use in Pulp Fiction to hide the true motivations of the Deuteragonist.

[Justin McElroy]

So what I'm saying is I'm just gonna let it bounce around with the Cheetos dust and the cookie crumbs and the Chapstick. That's what I'm saying. I'd rather grind Chapstick into the fence than walk around with a giant chastity pouch.

[Russ Rush]

Well, you also mentioned you were going to Ireland, and that was my immediate thought, was like, I don't know.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

The Republic of Gamers in the Republic of Ireland.

[Griffin McElroy]

You're a little worried, right?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

You're a little worried. You don't know enough about global geopolitical conflict.

[Russ Rush]

I had to go. It seems that the Republicans in Ireland don't care for England very much.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, this is good. This is a rich vein that we should explore.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let's go further.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. And I'm gonna leave.

[Russ Rush]

That was my first thought when you showed it. I was like, oh, oh.

[Justin McElroy]

Griffin said he's gonna leave and none of us are gonna talk anymore. Okay. Russ.

[Russ Rush]

Oh, goodbye, G.R.

[Justin McElroy]

My name is Justin McElroy and I know the best game of the week.

[Griffin McElroy]

My name is Griffin McElroy, I know the best game of the week.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

My name is Christopher Thomas Plant and I know a fine cup of tea.

[Russ Rush]

My name is Russ Rush and I know the best game of the week.

[Justin McElroy]

Oh, man. You know what I should have said? Here's the tea. This game is really fun and nice. Like that would have been good. We're going to be talking about Wander Stop this week and Chris Plant. What is Wander Stop?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wander Stop presents itself as a cozy game where you manage a farm effectively growing different plants and shrubs, keeping things clean, and ultimately making nice cups of teas for people who come through the area. But you see, it is much more than that game and we'll explain why and how after the break. We're sponsored in part this week by the UNC Kenan Flagler Business School Master of Accounting program. If you are the sort of gamer who spends hours, hours pouring over inventory and character stats, you probably have the analytical mindset to be an awesome accountant. And let me tell you, now seems like a pretty good time to be an accountant. No matter the state of the job market, every industry needs accountants and accountants are always in demand. I remember when I worked in film production. This is decades ago, but I would just have to bounce between job to job. But you know who is always just chilling in the coziest room? The accountant of every show. They had it so good. They're always married to each other. They just seem so happy. Anyway, seems like a great job, a great career and UNC Kenan Flagler wants to make it happen. They offer a top ranked online master of Accounting degree. And if you've been thinking of switching industries or you want to set yourself up for a lifelong career, you want to pick the program with a proven ROI and a 98% job placement rate that is huge. So you can do it. You could go be a Tar Heel in less than one year. Learn more at accounting UNC.edu. that's accounting UNC edu.

[Griffin McElroy]

First things first. We got all the cheat codes for Wonder Stop. If you want to know, let's go T flavors first.

[Justin McElroy]

If you're not grinding green seeds from the first frames of this game, then you're already a noob.

[Griffin McElroy]

The rusted key can be cleaned off in the teapot to open the shed with the bazooka in it.

[Justin McElroy]

If you kill Boro, you can take his money and buy a second tea sink.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh man. Can I try To. Can I try to set this one up?

[Russ Rush]

Sure.

[Griffin McElroy]

Okay. This is a. This is very much, I would say, a narrative forward game in that there's not a lot of emphasis placed on mechanics and you very, very much need to get on its level, I think, pretty quickly. I feel like this is gonna be a pretty divisive game for that very reason. I also see where it kind of fits in in the pantheon of a Stanley Parable or Beginner's Guide. The rest of sort of Davey Redden's. Am I saying his name right? I'm never quite sure. I've only ever. I've met him and I know.

[Justin McElroy]

Hey, hit me with that last name.

[Griffin McElroy]

Hey, hit me with that last name. Pronunciation, please. It is a game about burnout, primarily. It's about some other stuff too, but it features a young woman who has been a fighter her whole life, has fought her way up the sort of gladiatorial ranks, and has put every ounce of her time and energy and herself into mastering the Blade and becoming the world's greatest fighter to remain undefeated. And that is a great way for her to live. Until she starts to lose a couple fights and it shakes her. She doesn't know what to do. She goes to look for this master in the woods to teach her what she's doing wrong and instead gets lost and trapped basically in Wonder Stop, a tea shop in a clearing in the middle of the woods where she quite.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Literally cannot carry her sword anymore. Yes. The weight of it, for whatever reason in her hands, becomes unbearable and untenable. And that is what kind of gets her stuck in this weird clearing in the middle of nowhere.

[Griffin McElroy]

So her mission is to chill. Her objective is to rest and relax. Right. And so the extent to which that informs the rest of the game is really bold and completely comprehensive. You manage a tea shop, you make cups of tea for people to their specifications. You can grow different plants to make different types of tea, but there's no. There's no farming skill that you improve. You don't unlock a watering can with bigger volume. You don't get shears for cutting weeds that do it faster. There is no mechanical progression to the game.

[Russ Rush]

There's not even. Just to be clear, there's not even days.

[Griffin McElroy]

So there's not days if you feel.

[Russ Rush]

Like you, whoa, I need to finish this cup of tea before the clock runs out for the day. Nope.

[Griffin McElroy]

Nope. And the game will also frequently throw at you sort of chapter breaks in the narrative, after which you're basically gonna start over. Not the story of the game. But like those plants you grew are gone and the place is dirty again.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Some of the people you chatted with are gone. And you maybe probably didn't even get to the end of whatever your journey was with them.

[Griffin McElroy]

Life just right. And that's not because you fucked up. That's just the game. The game is you meet a person, you learn about them, you learn a little something about yourself and then they go. And most of the time you don't see those people again.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

So like as in real life, you do not solve the problems of everyone you meet. You might have a small impact on them along the way.

[Griffin McElroy]

It's all part of a bigger picture and a bigger sort of story that this game tells about Burnout, which is an incredibly difficult, incredibly nuanced topic to cover in a piece of, I mean cover at all. Narrative, non fiction, whatever, right? Like it's a hard thing to say something new about. It's a hard thing to address. Like, well, you do have to work hard and be ambitious to get where you want to be in life. How do you balance that with also not making yourself miserable and having an incredibly detrimental impact on you? It's hard to say something about that that is not incredibly trite or incredibly unhelpful. But the way that this game goes all in on that conversation and the way that it bucks conventions and expectations for what personally I demand from games, right? Like I need to feel like I'm being productive in a game. I like getting the stronger gun with the better stat. Like I am such a sucker for that. And I had to put all that shit aside to meet this game where it's at. And I'm so glad I did because I cannot think of a game that has had a more like profound impact on me and the way I think about games and work and stuff than Wonder Stump. I think it is. I think it is remarkable in a way.

[Justin McElroy]

It's what's cool. One of the coolest things to me about it is that it is very much continuing a conversation that was started with Stanley Parable, which like Stanley Parable was like about the idea, I think, of authorial intent and how that interacts with players and how like the maker of a game, like, and how they relate to the person playing it, right? And in a lot of ways the Stanley Parable wasn't a game as much as it was like a protracted criticism. Right? And I think that wonderstop is sort of. I think it's admirable in that it isn't just a commentary and it isn't just a thought starter and it isn't just a criticism. It's like it has the strength to be a game, right? Because for me, what's really like the burnout angle of it is very interesting. I think that that's obviously like a huge component of this. What I thought was challenging, I will say about this game, and I honestly think, like, subversively kind of critical is when you remove all of those motivating things, you really start to wonder why you're playing the game. Like, it makes. It wants you to wonder that, right? Like. Like, it's not even this idea. Like, like characters, right? Like getting to the end of their story is a form of progression, right? Decorating your house where a lot of these cozy games. It's like, yeah, it doesn't have the typical, like, motivating factors, right? It's about relaxing and all this stuff, but still, like, the decoration is a type of progression, right? It's like, it's still a hoarding. It's a. It's a. And it's an enacting a control in your environment, right? And it's. I feel like this game, by removing those sorts of like, motivational structures that games typically use, it really has to take you down to the base level of like, why are you doing this? What are you taking out of this? And I. That's really, like, I. I still don't know how I feel about it. Like, it's like a lot of it is like, I don't know, man. Once you realize how much of game design is about just that little dopamine thing, retention, pulling you along, right? Like, I. I don't know. I think it's cool that it is critical in a much more subtle way, I think, than Stanley Parable was.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. I think it is a game about stillness in being present. To the degree that every mechanism in the game went up against the question of is it being still, is it being present? Because I think you're right, Hoops, not just the make number go up, make plant, you know, potted plant, get stronger. But everything you can tell that they asked, is this creating a sense of progress? And if so, we need to pull away from it because that is not what we are going for. We are going for the idea of you sitting and being with yourself. I should talk a little bit about how the game works really quick.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, please.

[Griffin McElroy]

Because so far we're making it sound like wicked fucking boring. And I don't think it's boring. You do do stuff in this game. We should make it clear.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes. So you are tasked with making tea. And the way that you do that is by growing various plants of different colors and mixing and matching the, I guess, splicing the seeds to grow different plants. So depending on the shape that you grow them in in your yard, you will grow a different type of fruit. And then you will also go around the garden and you will harvest tea leaves with a basket, and you will take that into your house, you will dry out the tea leaves. I'm not doing any favors to make this sound more exciting.

[Justin McElroy]

No. But I do want to touch upon that. It's quite pleasurable to touch on something, though. And this is like, it's just now occurring to me as we're talking about this. You don't wait on stuff to grow. Right. It's much more active than it sounds. Because, interestingly, this game that is about stillness and is about, like, patience and all that stuff, like, you don't have to wait for to grow. Man, you jam that seed in there, you dump some water on that, and he's a he. He'll grow that instant. Right? There's no way, like, it's con. It's active. You're not forced into passivity. It is like, there's just no reason to rush.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

There's also no brewing period for your tea. So, yeah, it's just you get your dried up tea leaves, you get the different flavors that you want. You have a recipe book that lets you know, one, how to plant the different type of fruits, and two, what are some of the flavors that you'll see in those fruits? And then you align that knowledge with whatever conversation you're having with somebody. So maybe somebody has an injured leg and they're like, I just want to not feel pain for, like, five minutes. Can you give me anything that'll make the pain go away? You look through your recipe book, you find a flavor that matches that. And then you make the tea, which is this giant contraption in the middle of a beautiful house. It is a flubber esque in its silliness.

[Griffin McElroy]

Very whimsical.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yes, very whimsical. And you make a giant thing of tea by, like, first warming or pouring the water into the spout.

[Justin McElroy]

It's like a Rue Goldberg machine kind of or like, kind of.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah. And then warming it up and then tossing each individual ball of tea in and then putting a cup underneath the spout and then releasing the tea so it fills just perfectly in it. Do you. If you do any of this, like, wrong, does it Punish you? Absolutely not.

[Justin McElroy]

The aesthetics of all this are sublime by the way. Like watching it, you can taste it like the, it's beautiful. Every little thing is like, it's just gorgeous. Like taking it in is such a pleasure.

[Russ Rush]

I mean you can, to be fair, you can fog up a tea. Like you can.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Well, I mean if you literally don't follow the recipe, what I mean is like you can't pour in too much water into the tea thing. You can't make it too hot or too cold. Like.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah. And a lot of the like, typically with farming game, it's not a farming game in the sense that like there's no homesteading. That makes sense, right? And so like you, it doesn't make sense for you. My first impulse is like, I'm going to go play an orchard and I'm gonna have all of the plants, right? And they're gonna be min max. So we're like, my reds are here, my greens are here. But you get to a certain point and it erases everything. Yeah, it's like it's all gone. It's like, don't do that. There's no reason for you to do that. So when I, when I would get an assignment, right? Or like somebody would want a certain tea, it wasn't like, I'll just go to my blue section and grab the blue thing and like what I would do is like, they want something that tastes like ice cream. What does that. And I would get a book from upstairs and I'd flip through the book. I'm like, oh, okay, that and what colors do I need? Okay, I'm gonna go wander around till I find these seeds that I need. There's no reason to go faster. There's no reason to min max it. There's no reason to not enjoy it. And I think what is maybe the most revolutionary thing about this game is it seems to say like, if you don't enjoy this, you shouldn't be doing it. I don't care. Like I'm not trying, you know what I mean? Like it's not trying to motivate you in any way other than like if this brings you pleasure, please continue to do it.

[Russ Rush]

But otherwise, like it reminds me of like if someone were to come home from a long day of work and want to do like cross stitch or knitting, that kind. I mean we're not talking about the narrative because that's like I think separate from this. When the actual gameplay beats feel like something that is entirely self directed in.

[Justin McElroy]

Ways almost more like, like maintaining a Zen Garden or like a bot. Like in the.

[Griffin McElroy]

In the.

[Justin McElroy]

In the impermanence of it. Right. Like crafts where you would create things, I think is where a lot of video games are. Like, I feel like Stardew is closer to a cross stitch. Right. Because it's like you've got a pattern, you've got the things that you want.

[Russ Rush]

Yeah, but there's advancement in Stardew. Like, there's progress.

[Griffin McElroy]

There's lots of advance. Yeah, for sure.

[Justin McElroy]

No, but I'm saying you are working towards something in Stardew.

[Russ Rush]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

You're not working towards something with this. So I'm like contrasting that from cross stitching. You don't have like a. A thing at the. When you're done with this, you don't have a thing that you can show people and say, like.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

But you are working towards something in the same way with the Zen Garden, which is self improvement. Right. Like that. You come away from this game, I mean, I came away from this game feeling a lot better about things. Like, this game made me feel better.

[Justin McElroy]

There are things in this game and it made me feel a little bit. Made me feel a little bit sad. But there are things in this game that I hear that I didn't realize I needed to hear.

[Griffin McElroy]

Dude.

[Justin McElroy]

And I heard it from this little video game, man. The same box that done made Pac man on my tv. And this guy's making me feel things. Come on.

[Griffin McElroy]

I have been looking forward to talking about this game with you guys genuinely because so much of it felt targeted towards me as somebody who for his entire adult life has, you know, worked from home on my own schedule. The level of, you know, success or whatever I've achieved is directly proportional to like the amount of toil that I put into it. Like, and I think that that is a really common sort of sentiment or trait for lots and lots and lots and lots of people these days. And so I genuinely think there is a message in this game for most of the people I know that is not anything I've ever heard before about this topic that has been spoken about and lectured about and Ted talked about at length for years and years and years and years and years. And that's like, that's incredible to find a game or a piece of fiction or whatever that has something new to say about a topic that has been so thin, thoroughly explored is in and of itself like a pretty massive achievement. I did want to say, speaking of achievements, one of the things this game does that really drives this whole shit home is it has like 10 achievements. You get them. You'll get them. If you finish a game, you'll get the 10 achievements and it gives them to you at seemingly random intervals. You'll be like, just walking around the garden and it'll be like, you'll see the achievement thing pop up and it'll have some sort of obscure text. So it's, it's always something like she.

[Justin McElroy]

Never thought it would find. Like it sounds like an achievement, like.

[Griffin McElroy]

You'Ve done something, but then it's. But it's not like, oh, you solved this guy's quest.

[Justin McElroy]

Bloop.

[Griffin McElroy]

Or like, oh, you've had this moment of.

[Justin McElroy]

It literally looks like catharsis. Yeah, I thought it was.

[Griffin McElroy]

I thought it was because we were playing on some beta branch. But you know, it's not like someone has this moment of catharsis and then it's like, bloop, you helped the guy.

[Justin McElroy]

Is it because this is also to. I want to touch on. There is a mailbox, you get correspondence and there's a series of novels that you were sent in the correspondence and plants are smiling to me. It's fucking infuriating because Davey Reardon is like, he's already. He's doing this game that is not like on its surface a gut buster, right? It's not hilarious. It's humane and warm, but it's not like. And then you get these letters. It's this fake detective story, these books of the fake detective story that is fucking leaps and bounds funnier than any game that I've played for months and months and months. And he just like tosses it in the mail there. You get, you get letters in this game that have more quality writing in it than the entirety of split fiction.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I mean, like, not only are they hilarious, they then become self criticism in the same way that the Stanley parable is. That is as good as any criticism of video games and the culture around video games that you're going to find. I'll include this in Besties fan, but the entire first book of the Dirk Warhard series we published on Polygon, so people can read that and also Davey talking about adding that stuff to the game. But it is, it is so good and just gets better and better. The ability. And I want to be clear, Davey is a writer of this game, but it's. Ivy Road is the studio. And I think that's the magic that happened here, right? Is that voice and that vision and talent that Davey brings. Getting paired with a team that clearly knows game design so inside and out that they can subvert it while still making it just pleasurable enough to keep you going. It's a hell of a.

[Griffin McElroy]

And it's so risky too. Like if they don't land that one part of it, then the rest of the game is, I think, an infuriating, masturbatory, like exploration of self care, which is like a term that has almost lost all meaning in how wide ranging it becomes and how in conversations about that thing you can ignore, you know, going too far in that regard and how then that can become harmful. Right. It's such an insane balancing act that I don't know. But at the same time, playing Wonder Stop, like really quickly, I felt myself trusting this game to like handle it like after the first cycle or whatever the first story. Like once you kind of see like what this game is going for and sort of all the different ways it is moving away from what I expect from games, I felt like, okay, I'm fucking, I am on board. I am uncomfortable, but I'm on board. Let's see what happens. And it really, I think it rewards that I want to hear from Russ because I feel like you and I are cut from the same cloth in terms of like, you know, preferring the grind, enjoying progression and a sense of accomplishment in games that this moves away from. And I'm curious if you have the same sort of experience.

[Russ Rush]

So I haven't finished it yet. I think I have seven hours in it. Six or seven hours. I find the writing fantastic. I find the visual design fantastic. I think voice acting is really, really strong where it appears. I really struggled with the themes of these, this game because it feels like it's hyper target and this might not be wrong. And obviously it landed with you guys more. More than me. But to me, when I was playing it, it felt like it was targeted. To me 10 years ago when I was like building a crew, like start, you know, in the middle of my career and even making some changes in my career. And it was not great for my mental health. But I was kind of just pushing through, pushing through until it got to a point where I was like, oh, this is not right for me. And being at a point now specifically from like a having a kid standpoint. And again, I'm sure you guys can relate to this too. There's messages in this that are like, take a beat, chill. Which is important. I 100% agree, but it's very difficult to play a game without objectives or progression when I also have a list of 20 things that I need to be doing.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, sure, a hundred Per.

[Russ Rush]

And that was the like. Like, whenever I hear Boro being like, just like, relax and put the leaves where you want. I'm like, cool. But also, my son needs to be picked up from daycare in 30 minutes.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, I mean, I think that's interesting though. Like, what we're hitting on, guys. And this is like, actually really, really rare. We are reacting to this game in terms of what it is saying in four different ways, right? It hit the four of us in like, different ways, right? Like, Russ, you saw it, but it wasn't exactly the time you needed to hear it. Griffin, you thought immediately, like, burnout. You heard burnout. I was like, much more interested in the ideas of. At what it means for games and game design. Like, and I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that it is. Like, if it was like. Justin, do you agree with all this as a message? I think that there. I don't know, man. But as a. I think that it's. It's hard because I think if you're a game that does have a message, it. It almost has to be like, universal. Because that's so rare, right? Because we don't have this symphony of different thoughts and opinions being put out by video games. Like, we don't have a different video game that's like, actually buck up and you know what I mean, like, a different philosophy. It's so rare that a philosophy is put forth in a game that it almost feels like it has to be more universal than it is.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It has to be.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right.

[Justin McElroy]

Like, it doesn't have to be appealing to everyone for it to be successful. I guess.

[Russ Rush]

I agree.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I also don't know if it even buys any singular message in its own game beyond the chill out. It is, for lack of a better word, therapy. And the main character that you're working with, Boro, who is just this lovable giant tea maker, most of what he tells you is, I don't know, what do you think? How does that make you feel? Oh, you didn't do a good job. Well, what is like a good job anyway? It is, if you've ever been in therapy, a lot like therapy, and I. You can see it even with your character in the way that you can respond to questions and you can. There's dialogue options in this game and those dialogue options don't seem to inform the story so much as they are there to have you think of. Well, there are a variety of ways I could respond to that, and none of them are bad. So I think that is again the tricky part. But I agree with you, Hoops. What I love about this game is it's so nice to talk about a game and talk about the things it made you feel that it brought to you rather than just is game good. Did it click? All of the different things. I will say though, for people who want to play this game, I would not want every game to be like this. Oh God, you know, like this. It is challenging, boring.

[Justin McElroy]

I'm sorry. Keep making fun games everybody. Don't get it twisted.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's nice to have a challenging game like this. And it's challenging in that it's challenging. Get good.

[Justin McElroy]

It's the green and the blue, dude.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Get good at chilling the fuck out.

[Griffin McElroy]

This game said some stuff about burnout and I was like, yes, I understand if you didn't. Skill issue.

[Justin McElroy]

Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip, Skip. Yeah, guys, you can blaze through the fucking dialogue. This game, it does not matter. It is not going to impact your score at the end. So here's a question that I, that I've started thinking about, right? Like we, we play. We have to play new games for this show all the time. I don't. The question of whether or not I'm going to finish this, finish this game is interesting to me because that is a type of progression, right? Like in a game that does seem to be about so much about like, I don't know, it's, you know, do it if you want to do it or don't.

[Russ Rush]

Yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

But it's not like there is still a bit of have your cake and eat it too. Of like, well, we are moving towards something, right? There's a story that's being told here. I don't know if that is going to be enough to keep me like playing. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know if I'm going to stick with it without that motivation. I will say that feels a little, I don't know, contradictory.

[Russ Rush]

I will say this. I think, you know, we've talked a little about game design. I think it is worth calling out that. I think from a beat to beat game feel standpoint, I don't think this game feels very good to play. Like the physicalities of it I thought felt just kind of clumsy. Which is part of the reason that I, like, didn't. Yeah, I mean that was part of the reason is like, okay, enjoy your quiet time and vibe out and like get to a place that makes you a healthier person. Cool. But there are elements in Stardew Valley, for example, Just like the noise of a seed plopping into your bag or whatever. Just like little stuff like that that make the whole experience more pleasurable that I feel like this game, given the fact that is about the small things being pleasurable, doesn't quite nail. And a lot of that is interface stuff and like switching through bags and oh, my bag is full and oh, I got to drop this seed. And oops, I planted this seed by accident. There's just like a lot of weirdness to the interface that I think gets in the way.

[Justin McElroy]

Simplify so much with like getting it to like a single button type thing that you end up futzing with. Like, if you're in an area where there's several things you want to interact with that can feel kind of clumsy sometimes.

[Russ Rush]

For sure.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. To share my sort of perspective, I finished the game a long time ago. I. I was so fascinated by this game that I kind of couldn't put it down. I also started playing it while we were traveling, which I thought was a kind of an ideal because I was separated largely from my parental obligations, which I agree with you, Russ. Like, I don't think this game is particularly. This game doesn't really dabble in those so much necessarily.

[Russ Rush]

It's not even character. Like, I'm not locking into parentals. It's more locking, like dabbling in the idea that there are things and oftentimes a lot of things that cannot be.

[Griffin McElroy]

Left cannot be left. I fully get that. I think having this idea of story as motivation. Well, I gotta find out what happens. So I have to keep playing through the story. This game. I'm not gonna get into spoilers, but I don't even think that that is particularly emphasized by the end of it. What I do think and the reason that I do think that it is worth seeing through is. I mean, one from a personal level, there is a moment of beauty and catharsis in this game that truly rocked me to my core. At an emotional. I needed to hear this a long time ago level that I don't think I've ever seen in a game before. But I also think that it throws all these different characters in these different cycles and it doesn't explore all of them fully. Sometimes people come and they go, and that's life. I do think this game has a thesis, and I do think that that thesis is all pulled in by one of the later moments that happens, one of the final moments that happens. And so I do think it is worth seeing it through to that point. Not so you can find out, like, what, you know, how the story turns out or what happens with this character, because there's not a ton of emphasis placed upon that. But I think this is a game about a message. And I think that, you know, in talking about it like that is the big thing that this game has to offer is, like, it has something to say about a thing, and it. It does kind of tie it all together at the end in a way that I found, like, really, really great, I guess. Really, really good.

[Justin McElroy]

I wasn't really necessarily as interested in, like, whether or not it sticks the landing as much as, like, isn't that just another motivator, you know? Like, my curiosity about that, I feel like, is another thing that is keeping me playing it. Where in a game that is, like, interested in that. I think it's interesting that that is one sort of consideration that's like.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Do you know that Alan Watts quote about, like, psychedelics that when you get the message, hang up the phone. Have you ever heard that before? And it's like, I feel like that can be a fine rule for a game like this. If you are having that conversation, if it's doing those things for you, it's okay if you don't finish it at the same time, I think it's great if you do, like, the bigger thing I think this game wants is this conversation to happen, right? It wants you to stop and have the conversation if you finish it. That's great. I can't imagine that the people who made this game would be crushed here. You didn't finish it so long as you walked away from it thinking about your life a little differently.

[Griffin McElroy]

I've been thinking a lot about who I recommend this game to, and I don't know that that is, like, I don't even know that that's a thing you can really do with this game. But after finishing it and talking about it with you guys, I can't think of another game we've talked about on this show that we've talked about in this specific way that is divorced from a lot of other shit that we talk about when we talk about games. And I do think that it is gonna differ person to person on how much of a pass you're willing to give it, on the fact that it doesn't feel amazing. And there's not a ton of. I mean, there's literal carrots in the game that you can grow, but aside.

[Russ Rush]

From that, there's not.

[Griffin McElroy]

And so, like, and how challenging that is. Right. I think that there's people who are gonna hit that and be like, that's not. I'm not. I can see this game being very divisive, I guess is what I'm trying to say. But I also, man, it's so. I'm gonna be thinking about this game for a long fucking time. And to me, that is like a huge point of recommendation of, like, if you like playing games that stick with you. And based on what we've said, it doesn't sound like it's going to turn you off right away. Like, I heartily recommend playing this game because if you give it the chance to and it doesn't, like, you know, immediately turn you off, Like, I do think this is a game that is going to stick with you. Or at least I don't know. It certainly will for me. Also, can I. We also, I want to point out the music. Fucking tremendous. I just looked it up on Spotify. It's C418 who made, you know, most of the Minecraft music. And it's like 90 songs long. Like it's a ton. I can see this being my new sort of like working ambient music playlist, but I adore this game.

[Justin McElroy]

All right, well, it's a good one. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about more games.

[Russ Rush]

This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Factor. As you know, I'm not very good at cooking. I oftentimes, you know, don't have the time to cook or I'm bad at it. These two things happen quite a bit. Thankfully, there is Factor. Factor does chef made gourmet meals that make eating well super easy, especially for me. They're dietitian approved, ready to heat and eat in two minutes. And they can fuel you right, and make you feel great no matter what life throws at you. Factor arrives fresh and fully prepared, perfect for any active, busy lifestyle. With 40 options across eight dietary preferences on the menu each week, it's easy to pick meals tailored to your goals. For example, I picked the pork chops meal. Oh my God, it was so good. They're legit. Their meals are fantastic. They also have wholesome smoothies, breakfast grab and go snacks and more add ons if you want to, you know, mix and match. If all that sounds good to you, you can get started@Factor Meals.com slash Factor podcast and use code Factor podcast to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. That's Code Factor podcast at Factor Meals.com Factor podcast to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. Okay, we're back. I pulled a bunch of reader mail both from the comments and from various other sources that you'll reach us out at. I wanted to call this one. This comes from Crusty Nugget, Specifically related to Split Fiction, which is a game we talked about last week. You should listen to that episode if you haven't. And I think our major criticism was specifically to the writing. And so in response to that, I think you guys are focusing too much on the wrong aspect. Yes, the writing sucks and the story is meh. But that's not why we're here. Me and my girlfriend, we both play video games a lot, by the way. Are having a blast. It's just fun to see what kind of new mechanics happen next. There's constant stimuli. It's funny you mentioned Brothers A Tale of Two Sons. We played that for a few hours. The remake of that expecting like a NickTades 2. But we found it to be gameplay. We found the game boy to be lacking. Conclusion, we're just along for the ride and that is the fun for us. And that we sort of alluded to this when we were talking about the game Split Fiction. I think the best experience you can have is like almost passively listening to the dialogue and story, but entirely just interacting with another person. And in that scenario, I think you could have a really great time playing this game. So long as you're not like, we are all critics paying attention to the beat by beat dialogue. Which again is.

[Justin McElroy]

No, I don't.

[Russ Rush]

You don't think so?

[Justin McElroy]

No. If you're gonna put dialogue in it, then write it right. Like, I mean, don't ask me to listen to some like, don't put something in that's designed to be ignored. My time is.

[Russ Rush]

I don't think it was designed to be ignored. I think they designed it to be as great as they could possibly make.

[Justin McElroy]

It do a better. This person's wrong then. You know what I mean? Like, if you're going to do. If you're going to put writing in it, do a better job of putting writing in it. We're not wrong. We're not focusing on the wrong aspect. It was boring because the story was boring.

[Griffin McElroy]

What did I miss?

[Russ Rush]

Okay, so.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, we were all, for what it's worth, split decision.

[Russ Rush]

No, it wasn't even.

[Justin McElroy]

Well, between us and the listeners who have been wrong about Hazelight games for a fucking decade, guys, we're not gonna heal this rift. Everyone listening to this. If you like Hazelight games, you are wrong. They are poorly written. We are right. I am sorry. It's been 10 years. I'm tired of this.

[Griffin McElroy]

The dissonance.

[Russ Rush]

Not everybody block A and block B in this episode. The Zen ability to ignore Justin's face.

[Justin McElroy]

Wonderstop would heal me. Just made me more right.

[Griffin McElroy]

Well, you didn't finish it, man.

[Russ Rush]

Well, here is the challenge and this.

[Justin McElroy]

Is you gotta finish it.

[Russ Rush]

Here's the challenge with Hazelite games specifically. There is nothing else in them. That is this. No one else is making this format of game. So if you want this sort of. There are co op games, don't get me wrong, there are co op games, but games that are specifically designed for co op in mind there's no other option. And so for people looking for this thing, they're kind of stuck with it.

[Justin McElroy]

Now when I saw commenters 100% agree.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I saw commenters comparing it to mystery science theater 3000 approach, which is that you kind of are goofing at the expense of some pretty silly writing. At the end of the day, it's still quite entertaining. Like the action of it is propulsive. It looks neat. Yeah, I can't.

[Griffin McElroy]

So I'll put that one. I'll put that one on the queue.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Justin McElroy]

I just wish people would expect better for themselves. Like if someone is going to put a story in a game for you to consume and use your minutes on then. And if someone's going to spend their minutes writing it, then it should be worthwhile. It's life, man. Like you shouldn't. Then we should just have AI generating it, right? If it's just going to be shit.

[Griffin McElroy]

In the background, I wouldn't say that. Hold on.

[Justin McElroy]

No, no, hold on.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, oh yeah.

[Russ Rush]

Let me hear this.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, is it okay? What?

[Justin McElroy]

I'm. What?

[Griffin McElroy]

I didn't know it was part of the game.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's part of the game. The story of the game is literally about should you. Should a company steal ideas from the young to fuel an AI machine to write stories? What I'm saying the irony is their stories are garbage.

[Justin McElroy]

The story is garbage. And this is where the contradiction is and why split fiction is getting the nasty gram in the way that like a way out and other games did not is because split fiction is all about the power of ideas and narrative and story and then it shits its pants. So like if you want to make a game about the power of playing co op games together on the couch, that's the lane you should stay in. But if you're going to make a game about the power of ideas and humanity versus AI and all this stuff, then you have to have some ideas that are worth defending. And narratively they don't.

[Russ Rush]

They almost would have been better off just making a Tron game where it's like, oh, we're stuck at a computer. We gotta get out.

[Griffin McElroy]

That sounds kick ass to me.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, man.

[Russ Rush]

And not having the layer of, like, what's the grounded version of this.

[Griffin McElroy]

I don't want to talk about a game I didn't play.

[Russ Rush]

I do want to say we are on the outside of this almost exclusive us, the four besties. Or I guess the three besties. I don't think Griffin played it because this game is universally acclaimed, as was the last game that we also didn't like. Universally acclaimed.

[Justin McElroy]

Do you know why? Do you know why, Russ?

[Russ Rush]

No.

[Justin McElroy]

I'll tell you why. If you want to know, please tell me. I'm excited because people are tired of getting yelled at and they just want people to go away. So they gave the game a 9 or a 10 because I know everybody's going to love it. And I guarantee people writing reviews of this game. Email me secretly.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Shh.

[Justin McElroy]

I know that you juice the scores because you're tired of getting yelled at.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's fine.

[Justin McElroy]

I would have done it, too. I used to be in the game. I know how the game is played. It's a five. Like, it's like, you know, it's a five. It's okay, though. It's a six. It's a six. But, like, you know, they're just afraid to say that. Cause they don't want to get yelled at anymore. I get it. It's tough out there. No one's, like, supporting you. I get it. It's hard. It's cold, man.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I love it.

[Griffin McElroy]

I'm here for you.

[Justin McElroy]

I know it's bad. Call me, we'll talk about it.

[Griffin McElroy]

I know y'all fucking opened the genie's lamp last week while I was gone and let the fucking monster out.

[Russ Rush]

Okay, we have a no.

[Justin McElroy]

Cause I had to spend the whole week. I had to spend the whole episode being nice because they were like, everybody's gonna like this game. And now I get to just, like, open it up and tell you it's bad.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, okay.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, man. Unless you liked it, then it's good.

[Russ Rush]

There you go. There you go. That is a good reminder for all games. We talk about if you like the game and we didn't. Who gives a shit? Doesn't matter.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah. It literally could not matter less.

[Russ Rush]

We have a real good reason to.

[Justin McElroy]

Not email in about it. I guess would be.

[Griffin McElroy]

And I say that because the things we say on this show do not end up on Metacritic and impact the scores and salaries of the people. We're just fucking conscious decision.

[Russ Rush]

By the way, I do, for what it's worth, like getting emails from people who disagree with our critiques.

[Griffin McElroy]

So absolutely, yes.

[Justin McElroy]

Me too.

[Russ Rush]

You should love it. This letter comes from Kaylee. The tech Bros. I know say Justin needs a Linux penguin for his sticker collection to be complete. How do you not have tux on your fucking laptop?

[Justin McElroy]

Justin, I am work. I saw this email like as I was going through the. The. Hold on, I'll show you guys what I'm. What I'm looking at here. This is the pack that I just ordered.

[Griffin McElroy]

Pack of stickers.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I. I haven't ordered it yet. I'm going to try to find some.

[Russ Rush]

Oh no, that's what you need.

[Justin McElroy]

I need. Well, I need a non bezos. For what?

[Griffin McElroy]

People can't read.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah, it's a variety of toxapenguin stickers with some real classic goofs. Like what if tux was the Starbucks logo?

[Russ Rush]

Oh yeah.

[Justin McElroy]

Or like, do you even. Ssh is good.

[Russ Rush]

That tux has abs, by the way. What's up with that?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, I like a strong tux. Yeah, you can't buy this on Amazon. The pioneer rebel spirit of this symbol.

[Justin McElroy]

It's got a little Linux mint on there. It's got all the great brands. That's the great thing about open. Look, can you guys see that one at the bottom?

[Russ Rush]

Lennox inside?

[Griffin McElroy]

No. Jesus loves Linux.

[Justin McElroy]

Jesus loves Lennox.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, and that's probably true.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Tux is carrying a cross.

[Griffin McElroy]

Tux does have a cross in that one.

[Justin McElroy]

That one's going on the laptop.

[Griffin McElroy]

I do think there is something open source about the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[Justin McElroy]

Right? This opens my loaves and fishes, right?

[Griffin McElroy]

This is my wonder stop.

[Justin McElroy]

This is my first distro is fish. My second distro is these loaves.

[Griffin McElroy]

This one episode of Bessie's is challenging because they talk a lot about a challenging game. And then Justin takes a huge.

[Justin McElroy]

They insist on everybody play a boring game. Justin takes a huge dump on a beloved listener.

[Griffin McElroy]

And Griffin talks about how open source the teachings of Christ are.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

This will be a.

[Griffin McElroy]

Was that it? Wait, let me check the feed. Yeah, no one's listening. We got ever with that last one. We got Heavens had a good fig.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Tree joke coming and now it's just.

[Griffin McElroy]

Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, wow. It's okay.

[Russ Rush]

Justin. What. What distro of Linux are you using? This is a question from Joe Buntu.

[Justin McElroy]

I have switched a few times. I was on Ubuntu and then I switched to Linux Mint because I was interested in seeing Linux Mint, but there were a lot. I missed the Snap Store, even though there's a lot of purists that don't like the Snap Store, which is kind of like the App Store, but with a SN at the beginning. Yeah, a lot of people don't like it. And there's not in Linux Mint there's a lot of apps that did not have that simplicity, like Spotify or Slack. And so I switched to Kubuntu because it's easier to install apps. So that's a distro.

[Russ Rush]

The amount of system administrators that have showed up in our comments is staggering. It's like me having to talk to Verge people and all they want to do is talk about printers. It can be kind of a drag. I'm glad you guys are having fun.

[Justin McElroy]

I installed four different Linux distros on different things, but I'm assuming they're asking me about my Linux laptop. And that is what I want to.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Let everyone who comments on the newsletter know. I love hearing about Linux distros and I think It Takes Two is like totally worthy of the Game of the Year award. I just.

[Justin McElroy]

I didn't play a single second of It Takes Two, but I think I probably would have liked it.

[Russ Rush]

We have a letter from Peter taking a sharp left turn. Russ from Retro Game Corps. Good Russ, if you will, mentioned that he's playing Final Fantasy 16. I tried it, but stopped playing the minute the main antagonist is introduced. His name is Kupka. I'm Polish. I have a young child. Kupka is the universal word for poopy. It's not some obscured word for it. It is the word. I can't play an entire game against a poopy. I just can't.

[Griffin McElroy]

Wow.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I don't know. That would have got me to stay.

[Griffin McElroy]

That's not around for sure.

[Russ Rush]

I think that's basically it for reader mail. Do we have any?

[Griffin McElroy]

Let's do some honorable mentions.

[Russ Rush]

Let's do it.

[Griffin McElroy]

I got a Rog Ally X Because Henry has been playing a lot of Steam games. He got very much into this game called Ogoo and the Secret Forest, which I played a little bit with him. It is a very cute little Zelda, like with lots of stuff to explore and it's very charming. And he got really into it, which meant that he was using by steep deck a lot of the time, I guess.

[Russ Rush]

Follow Up Question Can a little boy, Will a boy use a Steam deck or will their arms fall off?

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, no. I mean he's, he's pretty. I mean, Justin can attest to this. Like he's fucking ripped.

[Russ Rush]

Oh, he's.

[Justin McElroy]

Yo, this is one of the strongest people I know.

[Griffin McElroy]

Like the crazy, like crazy vascularity for an eight year old. Yeah, yeah. And so like he's been playing Steam Deck and you know, I kind of realized like there's a lot of stuff in my account that I could family share that he would probably get like really, really into. So I got a Rog Isle ax also so that I could play some games that do not work on Steam decks, specifically Monster Hunter Wilds. And I did get Monster Hunter Wilds working on this bad boy. It took quite a bit of finagling, but it runs pretty smoothly. I would say around 50fps or so, which is totally, totally doable. It looks bad, but I can kill the monsters and get the stuff off of them.

[Russ Rush]

Sure.

[Griffin McElroy]

Which is great. I'm really glad that I did this because I've been playing this game a lot more. I simply do not have much time to sit at my computer and play a video game. I pretty much only have been playing Steam Deck for a long time now and I fucking love Monster Hunter Wilds. Now that I have had these sessions where I can sit down and really play it, there is so like a lot of the structural stuff. I still feel the same. Like I've gotten past the fairly boring part of like low rank story mode and I'm very glad to be on the other side of that. But there are moments in these fights that are so radical. I don't know if you guys ever played with a weapon that does offset strikes, but they are basically. There's like a handful of the weapons that can do them. The bigger, beefier ones where you charge up an attack and if you hit a monster with it as they attack you, you just sort of fuck them up. You just kind of like smash them out of their attack animation and save the day. And every time you pull one of those off, it feels so. It is the most tactile, most satisfying feeling in games, period. I'm a bowman now, which is another weapon with lots of good feel. It's so fun to have been playing this and Wonder Stop at the same time, which are scratching, literally. It's like a hot and a warm tap on either side of my brain lobes where it's like, I have this one for the quiet times and I have this One when I just want nasty numbers and gemstones and skill increases and grinds, I am. I am getting all of my needs met in very different ways. I don't know if you guys talked more about Monster Hunter Wilds or if you guys are still playing it.

[Russ Rush]

Still here and there occasionally I think it fucking rules. I wish. I don't have a Rog allies and it definitely can't run on Steam Deck. So that is the thing. I got hooked on Monster Hunter Rise because it was a portable game because I could play it on my switch. That got me into Monster Hunter as a franchise. That clicked it for me. And all I can tell is like this franchise in the way that Animal Crossing is a portable franchise, should be a portable franchise. Same thing with Monster Hunter. It works so perfectly for that. So someday.

[Griffin McElroy]

I also have gotten Dragon's Dogma 2 running on this bad boy. I am excited to relitigate that.

[Russ Rush]

Oh.

[Griffin McElroy]

So I had to find out. Did you guys know they've added a casual mode to the game with an update? Literally all it does is is it like reduces every time you die. It says casual. It reduces penalties for death and reduces the price of the fast travel system. As far as I can tell. Doesn't change anything difficulty wise in terms of stats or combat.

[Justin McElroy]

If they would just put in a normal fast travel system, I'd play 80 hours.

[Griffin McElroy]

As far as I can tell. This casual mode just kind of shaves off the annoying shit. So is casual the right word for that or.

[Justin McElroy]

If it shaved out the annoying shit, man, that'd be like 100 meg download. It is still a Dragon's Dogma game, man. They got to keep a little something in there.

[Russ Rush]

Just a Txt file.

[Griffin McElroy]

I am. I am excited to. To get into that.

[Russ Rush]

That's exciting. Anyone else?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I am hosting a movie screening at the end of the month and I want to plug it. And people who can't come out to this, you should just watch this movie. But Streets of Fire. Have y'all seen this movie Hoops? I've seen Streets of Fire. I saw it fresh. Is it good?

[Russ Rush]

It's very interesting. I would not describe it as a ringing endorsement.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Wow.

[Russ Rush]

Okay. But it is interesting and it's a fun night out.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

I will say that.

[Justin McElroy]

Out.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's a movie by Walter Hill who made 48 hours and the warriors and then this rock musical starring Diane Lane, Rick Moranis and Willem Dafoe.

[Justin McElroy]

Dang.

[Griffin McElroy]

Jesus Christ.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It is incredible. I agree with that. It is not perfect, but it does have, I think one of the strongest openings of a movie ever and our buddy Patrick H. Willems agrees. He made a whole video about this. I'll be sure to share it in the newsletter. It also has an absolutely killer ending. This movie rocks. This movie would be one of the great canonical rock musicals if not for the lead being an actual loaf of white bread that got left in a puddle. Not the best casting for the lead actor. But everything else is so unbelievably cool in this movie. We'll be hosting it at the Frida, the theater that I help out with in Santa Ana. And some of y'all came out last time. It was great. I would love to see more people there too. But if you can't make it there is a new 4K restoration or just a regular Blu ray and I think you can also find it on like Amazon vod and again it's called Streets of Fire. It rocks.

[Justin McElroy]

Yeah, I got the. I got a rog Alex and have.

[Griffin McElroy]

You actually played shit on it or have you just been.

[Justin McElroy]

Why would I do that? I mean game. I'm an adult Griffin. Yeah, what I'm going to do. No, I didn't play games. No, I played games on. I opened it up and I took out the SSD and then I put in a 4 terabyte SSD. The cooling on it and then I installed a dual boot of windows. I kept the Windows partition and then I put in a distro called Bazzite which is a version of a Linux distribution that basically is like recreating the Steam deck experience as much as possible. It basically turns it in functionally turns it into a Steam deck. From a software perspective it's running the same way and you have the same options available to you. That's a little kludgy. Obviously you have stuff like button indicators sometimes where like you don't have it on the wrong ally like they'll be indicating a button that isn't there. So it feels a little bit funky in that sense. But other than that it's great. I have a button I made a script that creates a non steam game that basically shuts the console down then reboots it in Windows mode. So it's like a way to switch between pretty easily rather than having to like get into the BIOS and shit. It's an easier way.

[Griffin McElroy]

From what I have read the main reason to do that to get bad side on there is one if there's Windows cruft you don't care for it is a way of sidestepping that. It is also the big sort of experiential difference I will say of using Raw Guy X over Steam Deck, aside from the fact that you can play different. You can play Ubisoft Kinect shit on there or the Xbox Store on there. And Destiny. Yeah. Is that when you press the power button on Rog Ally X it puts it in like a low power sleep mode that eventually turns into a no power hibernation mode that takes a much longer time to come out of. Then you have to contend with like the Windows lock screen when you turn it back on, which there's like crazy ways of getting rid of that that sort of pose security issues with Bazzite. It makes it a Steam deck. You press the button and it turns and it goes to sleep.

[Justin McElroy]

It's in the Linux kernel. It can do that instant suspend and then bring back where that's not an option that's available to you. Windows. And the other thing I gotta say is like. And I haven't spent a ton of time with it because I've been mainly like on the Windows end of it because I've been mainly setting this up. But it's also just like Windows is not a handheld operating system. I mean like it is so crazy to buy this device and get it and then it's Window.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean it's like, do you want Office365 family plan? It's like, no, I want Monster Hunt.

[Justin McElroy]

I have this front end called Armory Crate where they've like tried to like make a experience that is navigable like pretty easily with the controller and stuff and it can default into it. But like it's Windows and like that feels so crappy. I mean like I keep I. For a long time I kept here, yeah, this little. My keyboard for the RI keyboard I have like plugged into it just so I could type constantly because like that feels really bad to do on a touchscreen. And I know that they are still working on some sort of like actual Windows handheld operating system. But like this is not. It's like it's not there. It's really weird.

[Russ Rush]

It seems so counter to what Windows has become, which is like having a handheld operating system. Because so much of a handheld operating system only works because you're really picking and choosing the things that matter. And Windows is like, no, we're going to show you fucking everything. And every notification and everything gets equal priority. And the idea that they could somehow winnow that into a tight experience that mimics the Steam deck seems so unlikely to me. I wish they can. I hope they can but that is the challenge.

[Griffin McElroy]

What I will say, I actually think Armory Crate's pretty good. Specifically in it puts all the tools sort of right at your fingertips, like a single button press away that you need to tweak the cornucopia of performance settings that you can set globally or like per game. That process I was worried was gonna be so annoying that I would regret my purchase. But it is not that hard to toss up a little performance panel in the side that's like, okay, you're getting this FPS and these heuristics and then you can tweak that shit really, really quickly to get it where you want it to be. I have not found the process of getting these games that are Monster Hunter Wild's not working on a lot of people's desktop PCs, even with like fairly high end stuff inside of it. I was like, maybe there's no way this is gonna work on here. But it genuinely that process of kind of messing around with stuff I have grown to kind of enjoy because I feel like, oh, there's definitely a way I can squeeze a little bit more juice out of this thing. I think that the Armory Crate stuff is very functional, but it is, it's simply is not and cannot be the streamlined experience that the Steam Deck offers.

[Justin McElroy]

Have you downloaded Lossless Scaling, Griffin?

[Griffin McElroy]

I did download Lossless Scaling. Lossless Scaling is a game. It's an app on Steam. You run it alongside another game that you were playing and it basically does frame gen for you, which like a lot of modern games like Monster Hunter and I think Dragon's Dogma offer in like the settings. But Lossless Scaling is like an $8 app that will do that with a higher level of sort of like specificity and it is pretty fucking good. I don't use it a ton, partially because I was having some crashing issues on Monster Hunter Wilds, but with other games that I have messed around with. It is pretty insane how well it works.

[Justin McElroy]

How do you cycle between the different power profiles, Griffin? Like the boost and stuff like that.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean it's game by game. Like for Monster Hunter I'm using a lot of the. It goes through battery a lot f it is consuming a lot more power to run it at the level that I want it to get to change.

[Justin McElroy]

Between the modes manually, I guess. Or is that happening?

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

But again there's a quick access button on the rog isle AX that opens up this panel that you can customize with your most frequently used settings tweaks and stuff like that. So I have it set up to. Honestly, I don't even have to do that because I have a global setting that works for pretty much everything. And then when I launch Monster Hunter, it knows, okay, you have these settings set up specifically for Monster Hunter. We'll go ahead and activate all that shit. So like, you're not actually having it. I'm not having to do like a lot of tweaking on, on the fly.

[Russ Rush]

It does seem though that unless you're trying to play something more intensive, you. You're probably better off just sticking with a Steam Deck.

[Griffin McElroy]

Right?

[Russ Rush]

Because you can still run uplay, you can still play Microsoft Game Studios games on a Steam Deck. Just. It just requires like a little bit of.

[Justin McElroy]

I will forget. We're kind of bearing the lead in that the battery's twice as big.

[Griffin McElroy]

I mean it is a. It is a juicy.

[Justin McElroy]

It's gonna run twice as long. And it's just better power management overall with the, with especially if you're in the Bazite one like, oh, look at that big brick. That's what I'm. That's. Yeah, man.

[Russ Rush]

I don't even know what you're showing me. What is a battery?

[Justin McElroy]

It's a huge battery. I have the small version of that one. It's amazing. I love that that battery.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It's, it's. It's the battery that allows me to play Steam Deck from Los Angeles to New York.

[Russ Rush]

Oh, oh, it's a portable. You were showing as a portable battery that you got.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

It does not look like a portable battery. It looks like an actual brick.

[Griffin McElroy]

I would agree that if you're not playing super high end stuff, Steam Deck is the easier in a lot of ways better option to do that. But I could count off the top of my head a dozen examples of games that I really wanted to play on the go. And the Steam Deck simply did not. Simply did not allow. And that was enough to kind of push me over the. The edge.

[Justin McElroy]

There's also what Griffin is talking about with that, like not having time to play games more and more. If I'm going to sit down at a tv, what I've been doing is plugging in the Steam Deck to the dock and playing on the tv. So using this in that way then then there are games that I'll play a little bit more. Right. Because I can slap this into a dock and, and start playing it and have much better experience than with the, with the Steam Deck.

[Russ Rush]

Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense for people that are forced because of a satanic bargain to Play a new game every single week, right?

[Justin McElroy]

A satanic bar they made 12 years ago.

[Griffin McElroy]

I've not fucked around with like bazzite and dual booting and stuff because I think Steam something came out where SteamOS beta is expected before May.

[Russ Rush]

Yeah, pretty soon.

[Justin McElroy]

That's what I have read with the Grimes.

[Griffin McElroy]

Don't you want to get in there.

[Justin McElroy]

With the nuts and the boats and dig it all?

[Griffin McElroy]

Can I just say, Juice, you've done a lot of work on this character lately. This like Linux cockney sort of street urchin.

[Justin McElroy]

Don't you want the thrill of knowing that you could break this motherfucker? Don't you want a tiny ribbon cable that is one hair one micrometer thin that could destroy this multi hundred dollar piece of equipment?

[Griffin McElroy]

I will tear down a Switch Lite to parts and I will fucking get as nasty as you want in there. Cause those things are like 200 bucks, which ain't nothing. This is considerably. The stakes could not be higher with a Rog Ally X. So no, I have not been quite as eager to get as dangerous with it.

[Justin McElroy]

I will say this if you do want to. I'm like kind of joking about the customization. They make it easy. And this, the Rog Ally X uses a form factor, the MVMe storage, it's 2280 and it's a little bit more universal. The rog ally used 2230 which is a little bit more specific. So you can like find this storage pretty cheaply with the heatsink and like increase the storage of this pretty considerably. You can also put in Griffin A. Like you could put in a terabyte or 2 terabyte micro SD card that could share between. If you use the SD card, it can share between the boots. Right?

[Griffin McElroy]

That's very cool.

[Justin McElroy]

Very cool. It was a gigantic pain in the ass. Like took me an entire day. Huge pain in the ass because I started doing it, not really paying attention and fucked something up so bad that I had to learn a lot about computers really fast. If I wanted this segment to have a happy ending, I had to get real smart real fast.

[Russ Rush]

Could have been making tea that whole time.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah.

[Russ Rush]

Last but not least, that's what I need.

[Justin McElroy]

Like shut the fuck up, man. I just broke this thing. What do you mean make tea? Hey Boro, how about you get in there fix my wrong Ally X. It's just a black screen, brother. I don't know.

[Russ Rush]

I've been playing Enter the Gungeon, which is a game from seven years ago and it runs on fucking everything. So we don't need a fancy new handheld. There just aren't. After finishing Star Providence and getting close to finishing Binding of Isaac, I don't have a giant list of games that scratch that itch for me and Enter the Gungeon. Is that if you found it too hard previously, I think they made it a little easier.

[Griffin McElroy]

Since last I played it, I never finished Enter. I love that game.

[Russ Rush]

I think they made it easier. Either that or I'm just great.

[Griffin McElroy]

The final boss was such a motherfucker that, like, I got to him a half dozen times and just got my ass whipped and was like, well, this is not fun.

[Russ Rush]

Okay, I think we did it. I want to thank the following members. We have Kyle. We have Nicholas. We have Kelsey. We have Bread. Thank you for being new members of the [e-mail] thebesties we have a new episode of the Resties out. You can go listen to that. We have a new bracket episode that's live already for this month. I think next week we're going to be doing kind of a grab bag episode of smaller titles. If that's exciting to you, you should join us.

[Griffin McElroy]

Are we not doing Assassin's Creed next week?

[Russ Rush]

No, two weeks is Assassin's Creed.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

Oh, good. That's good for me because I'll be out next week because I got game developers conference. That means I can talk about A.C.

[Russ Rush]

I guess it'll be Griffin and I doing grab bag because just hell yeah.

[Griffin McElroy]

Fuck yeah, man.

[Russ Rush]

It's gonna be fucking numbers and upgrades and armor sets that do class item bullshit.

[Griffin McElroy]

Yeah, baby.

[Russ Rush]

Living large.

[Justin McElroy]

All right, well, I'll be looking forward to that. I'll be listening. I'll tune in. I'll be there.

[Christopher Thomas Plant]

That's two listeners you got right there.

[Justin McElroy]

Two new listeners that's gonna do some of the best season. Be sure again. Be sure to join us again next week for the best. Because should the world's best friends pick the world's best games.

[Griffin McElroy]

Besties.