← The Besties
The Besties
Want a New GBA-style Zelda? Try This Indie Game
00:53:04
Pipistrello and the Cursed Yoyo looks and feels like a lost Game Boy Advance game, but with all of the quality of life improvements of a modern game. We talk about what makes it a great game to fill a weekend. In the back half, we share our feelings on the nerd event of the season: Superman!
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- [00:00]
Griffin McElroy
Name of the Year. I know that's not what we do here. I know that we focus more on sort of the holistic package of a video game, but you ain't gonna beat Pete Pastrello. You ain't gonna beat Pete Pastrello for name of the Year. It's a good name, man.
- [00:17]
Justin McElroy
Pete Pastrello is fun to say.
- [00:20]
Griffin McElroy
Is it fun?
- [00:21]
Justin McElroy
I mean, name of the year to say out loud? Maybe.
- [00:25]
Russ Freshick
Are you judging it as just, like, a person's name? Justin?
- [00:29]
Justin McElroy
No, it's just like, Pete Pastrello. Does it help me remember?
- [00:33]
Griffin McElroy
Okay, you ain't gonna forget Pete Pastrello.
- [00:35]
Justin McElroy
If I hear the name. If I hear the name Death Spank, I'm immediately thinking death Spank, right? I'm like. I'm thinking about the heroic knight with the bad sense of humor, and he loves bacon Deathspank, you know? But Peepistrello. I don't know. Who's Pipestrello?
- [00:50]
Russ Freshick
Well, are we including the subtitle in.
- [00:53]
Griffin McElroy
The name of the Pipestrello and the cursed yo yo? I mean, the cursed yo yo. Like, it's fine. It's not necessary. Just Pistrello.
- [01:01]
Justin McElroy
Now, what about. What about Y's the oath in Felghana? Because that's January 7th.
- [01:09]
Griffin McElroy
That came out.
- [01:10]
Justin McElroy
That's a reason you might have forgotten about Y's memoir. The Oath in Felghana.
- [01:14]
Griffin McElroy
It ain't no Peep Estrello, though. You ain't topping Peep Estrello turn up.
- [01:19]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Boy robs a bank. This title is better than, like, a dragon pirate Yakuza in Hawaii. Really?
- [01:26]
Griffin McElroy
That's a good one. That's a good one. But it.
- [01:28]
Justin McElroy
Hey, Pete Pastrello.
- [01:29]
Russ Freshick
Pete Pastrello is more fun to say than any other name I've ever heard.
- [01:33]
Griffin McElroy
The mouth feel on this one is just out of sight.
- [01:35]
Justin McElroy
Petrello, seems like you're getting away with something. I agree with that. I agree with that.
- [01:40]
Griffin McElroy
We shouldn't be allowed to say Peepistrello as much as we have, even in the intro of this podcast episode.
- [01:45]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, I agree. The Legend of Heroes trails through Daybreak 2.
- [01:51]
Russ Freshick
No fair.
- [01:52]
Griffin McElroy
It ain't.
- [01:53]
Justin McElroy
You ain't beating Pee Pastrello, baby. My name is Justin McElroy, and I know the best game of the week.
- [02:16]
Griffin McElroy
My name is Griffin McElroy. I know the best game of the week.
- [02:18]
Christopher Thomas Plant
My name is Christopher Thomas Plant, and I know the best game of the week.
- [02:22]
Russ Freshick
My name is Russ Freshik. I know the best game of the week.
- [02:26]
Justin McElroy
Welcome to the Besties, where we talk about the Latest and greatest in home interactive entertainment. It's a video game club. And just by listening, you, my friend, have become a member. This week on the show, we're going to be talking about a new title called Pipestrello.
- [02:41]
Russ Freshick
Pipestrello.
- [02:42]
Justin McElroy
Pipestrello. What is that? Chris Plant.
- [02:47]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I'm really sorry.
- [02:48]
Justin McElroy
Caught you by surprise.
- [02:49]
Christopher Thomas Plant
See if I can find any other game names. And I found one called Don't Tell mom I Fed my step. And let me tell you, it's not your. You're not giving them sandwiches. What is PP Strello? Christ, I don't know. It's like a. It's a Zelda game that's 2D pixels and you play as Peepee Strello, a thing with a Yo Yo.
- [03:10]
Justin McElroy
Okay, thank you. You know what? We may have to reassign our jobs. We'll talk about that during the break.
- [03:17]
Russ Freshick
This episode of the Besties is sponsored by Alienware. You know the new era of power has arrived with the Alienware area 51 GAM laptops intentionally engineered to push more power to the CPU and GPU for maximum performance. This otherworldly power, paired with the game changing AI capabilities of Nvidia GeForce RTX 50 Series GPUs with DLSS4amplifies performance and image precision for ultra smooth, stunning gameplay. Fused with Alienware's enhanced thermal solutions, it creates a higher power output without raising noise levels, allowing you to play with confidence even during the most demanding marathon gaming sessions. So no matter what you're playing, Alienware ensures every game runs precisely as its developers intended. A new era of power is here. All you have to do is take it. Discover Area 51 today@Alienware.com before we talk about PP Strello and the cursed Yo Yo. I just want to confirm because in the intro plant called pp, are you.
- [04:22]
Justin McElroy
Saying pee Peestrello in the Giant. She's got to say the guy's name wrong. Are you saying. No, I need to clarify. Are you saying PP Strello and the cursed Yo Yo.
- [04:31]
Russ Freshick
PP Strello and the cursed yo yo.
- [04:35]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Cursed Yo Yo.
- [04:36]
Griffin McElroy
And folks listening at home, we are going to talk about the game.
- [04:39]
Justin McElroy
Sorry to know, but frustic. Are you adding this like this fun second syllable to the word? This is. Why are you leaning into cursing or.
- [04:51]
Russ Freshick
Are we going with cursed? I mean cursed sound? I don't know. That works.
- [04:56]
Justin McElroy
I like that.
- [04:56]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It does feel right.
- [04:57]
Justin McElroy
Cursed yo yo.
- [04:59]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I like it.
- [04:59]
Russ Freshick
Okay, I need to clarify something because.
- [05:02]
Justin McElroy
A cursed yo yo has a curse on it. A cursed yo yo is a Yo yo. You really hate. Which would be funny because it's like this cursed yo yo. And then you throw it away and it comes right back to you. That's a good bit.
- [05:12]
Griffin McElroy
That's. That is a good bit.
- [05:13]
Russ Freshick
Yeah.
- [05:13]
Griffin McElroy
What are you going to clarify, Russ?
- [05:14]
Russ Freshick
Okay. At the beginning in the intro, when Plant was describing what this game is, he said a third, specifically referring to Pipistrello. And to be clear, Pipestrello is not a thing. Pipistrello is an animal, and a very specific animal indeed. And I want to make sure that everyone knows what kind of animal he is.
- [05:31]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [05:32]
Griffin McElroy
He is a pipistrello. He is the animal. Pipistrello. That's Italian for bat.
- [05:38]
Russ Freshick
Yes.
- [05:39]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Thank you.
- [05:39]
Justin McElroy
He's a bat.
- [05:40]
Russ Freshick
He's a bat.
- [05:40]
Griffin McElroy
He's a bat. Yeah. I didn't realize that until maybe two hours into the game when someone referenced that he was a bat, because he doesn't look like a bat.
- [05:48]
Christopher Thomas Plant
He looks like a little monster or like a mouse.
- [05:50]
Justin McElroy
What I thought the whole game is. I hate the way this ugly boy looks.
- [05:57]
Griffin McElroy
Can I try and set up what Pipistrella is all about?
- [05:59]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Sure.
- [05:59]
Griffin McElroy
Because it has really charmed me right from the jump. The game opens by showing you what is essentially a 3D render of a Game Boy advance classic. Not the SP, not the folding screen. A classic sort of long Game Boy advance, but, like a knockoff you would.
- [06:19]
Russ Freshick
Find on, like, say, Mark's place.
- [06:20]
Griffin McElroy
Yes. Yeah. And you see the cartridge of Pipistrello and the cursed yo yo go into this Game Boy advance, and then it zooms in on the screen, and then that's. Then you're in the game. And I think that that is a really, really effective setup because this is such a love letter to Game Boy advance games that entire era. Just from the way that it. From a design standpoint, from an aesthetic standpoint, everything is sort of like. It took me a while to get used to how kind of, like, zoomed in, everything felt like. It didn't feel like there's a ton of real estate on the screen that you are, like, navigating. It feels like you're playing a Game Boy advance game, but a really, really good one. And I have so much fondness for that era, so it worked on me.
- [07:08]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Before we go too much further. Yeah. Let's just say, like, what the game actually is.
- [07:12]
Justin McElroy
Yeah. So it's like, Plant wasn't wrong. There is Definitely, like, a 90s Zelda 80s 90s Zelda overhead sort of vibe to this kind of a link to the Past kind of thing. But the thing that I think is cool and sets it apart is the P. Pastrello's main thing is this yo yo and the yoyo attacks, you know, like you would expect from like a Startropics or whatever. Lots of games have a yo yo. But what's cool about this is if you use a yo yo to attack angles like corners. There's lots of 45 degree angles throughout the world. And if you strike one of those, it kind of like can extend your attack. So like your attack will then go 90 degrees off of that and can continue an attack and you can use that. There are sort of like what you might think of as like lines in a Tony Hawk game similar to that. There are lines in the different stages and screens where if you hit this certain angle, you'll hit repeated angles that will extend your attack. That may even like take out all the enemies in the room if you shoot at just the right point.
- [08:13]
Griffin McElroy
It feels very. It reminds me a lot of Minish Cap to conjure a specific Zelda reference. It's very simple to start out. It did not hook me at first. But very quickly as you explore the game, you get your objective to collect these MacGuffins from around the map. And you get different power ups that give you more options. Things to do with your yoyo like release it from the string and just send it rolling forward. So you can use it as like a far off range attack. But then you have to go and grab your dumbass yo yo off the ground before you can attack with it again. Eventually you learn to walk the dog, which is kind of like a locomotion power that like opens a lot of fun doors for you.
- [08:55]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, that's really neat.
- [08:56]
Griffin McElroy
And there's like tons of. You know.
- [08:58]
Justin McElroy
That's probably the moment I would say that it really unlocked for me because like once you get to walk the dog that lets you travel with the attack, then it really starts to feel a lot more like kinetic than you would normally associate with this. Sort of like isometric. Is that right top down?
- [09:13]
Griffin McElroy
No, not isometric. Bird's eye. It's a bird's eye.
- [09:16]
Russ Freshick
But I would. I think it's important to also know that like all that stuff ties into combat. Sure. And there is a lot of combat in this game, but it also ties directly into like all of the puzzles. So there will be puzzles where like you need to launch your yo yo because you need it to land against the wall and then weigh down a weight, a pressure plate. And then there are Times where you need to ride it, and there are times where you need to, like, ride it and then throw it and then, like, do multiple combinations of the two as you're moving your way through a given puzzle. So that stuff feels very. You know, some of the later Zelda games where they have these, like, mini puzzles within that are totally optional. Like, that stuff feels very much clued into that.
- [09:56]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, you're collecting stuff to, like, you know, basically heart pieces to, like, extend your health. There's a really, really, really clever way that this game handles upgrades. You're collecting money from fallen enemies and by solving puzzles and stuff the whole time. And you have this little home base that you can pop into. Basically, anywhere you see a little manhole cover on the ground, you pop in and then you're back in your home base. And there's a vendor there who will sell you new upgrades. But the way it works is it'll be like, okay, this one will extend your health bar by one thing, or this one will increase your attack power, but it's going to put you in debt for $300. And until you complete that debt, half your money's going to get drained. It's going to go into this debt account to pay it off. And also you're going to have a debuff on you. So maybe the debuff is you take more damage, but once you've paid off the debt, the debuff goes away and that power is yours permanently. Which I think is such a clever way of like, I don't know, always making you feel like you are progressing. Even if you hit a wall and you aren't making money, you still have the upgrade, right? You still have the power. It's just a question of, like, how long it takes you to work off debuff debt that it puts on you.
- [11:05]
Russ Freshick
Yeah, I thought that was very, very smart.
- [11:08]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, they do a similarly, like a smart small thing is the more. It's like a little bit of a extremely, extremely Souls like element, where the more money that you're carrying with you in a given time, when you die, you lose more of it. So there's this incentive to, like, upgrade and like a stress that comes along with carrying a bunch of cash on your on hand.
- [11:30]
Russ Freshick
There is an interesting twist to that though, because unlike a Souls, like, you're not sent back to like a save point or like the equivalent of a bomb.
- [11:38]
Justin McElroy
Oh, yeah, it's just a clean restart.
- [11:39]
Russ Freshick
You can restart right from the screen that you're on. But again, you're taking that punishment. And there are upgrades that like, diminish the punishment.
- [11:46]
Justin McElroy
It's a good point though, Russ, because I think that games like this have struggled with ways to, like when you have this sort of like limited health bar, whatever, ways to make death feel meaningful and not just like a reset or kind of an annoyance. And I think that this system of dinging you a little bit, it makes it so that you don't lose any progress, really. You're like right back in it. But there is a little bit of frustration with like, ah, you know, I should be more careful than that.
- [12:13]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [12:13]
Griffin McElroy
Because the upgrades are genuinely really meaningful. Like you are. I died a lot in this game especially.
- [12:19]
Russ Freshick
Yeah.
- [12:20]
Griffin McElroy
You'll find some, like, arena battles and it's like, oh, there's great rewards. You can earn badges which are basically like, you know how they work, like Paper Mario or whatever. You find them and they give you these benefits. But you only have so many slots to equip with the badges. But you can increase that with upgrades too. All that stuff is so meaningful. And so tracking them down and doing these super tough puzzles or arena battles, you're going to get your ass kicked. And so I don't know, I wasn't expecting that from my first few moments with the game because it seemed pretty. Oh, it's like a cute Game Boy advance thing. But there's genuinely a lot, a lot going on in here.
- [13:00]
Justin McElroy
You can also get in trouble if you're playing it like you would another game that looks like this. Like, if you're trying to force it into, I'm just gonna whack this guy with my yo yo until he dies. And then I did that so many times. Then I looked around and found like the one line that they wanted. Like, if I had just looked for that one angle for a second, I would have found the one attack that would have like, wiped the whole board clean in a second. Yeah.
- [13:22]
Griffin McElroy
There's also a parry because it's the year of the parry man. Once you unlock parry, it really starts getting good.
- [13:28]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I want to go back to that thing that you said about the nostalgia of the Game Boy Advance. Griffin. What I really admire about this game is it captures the actual feeling of playing a great Game Boy advance game, not just looking like it. And by that I mean when you have nostalgia for an Atari game, you expect kind of like a trifle that you're going to play for like a few minutes. It'll be silly. With the NES game, you have different expectations for people who were not around when the game Boy advance came out. What was so incredible about that system? Is it for the first time felt like real games?
- [14:02]
Griffin McElroy
Yes.
- [14:02]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Like when you played Game Boy, it was cool that you could play a game on the go. They did not feel like real games, barring maybe two or three exceptions.
- [14:10]
Justin McElroy
No, they had just like grand spectrum of like Game and Watch and Tiger. Handheld electronics are down here. You knew you were getting methadone, right? You knew you were just beeping on that until you could get home and play a real video.
- [14:22]
Russ Freshick
Sort of like Link's Awakening being maybe the only exception.
- [14:25]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, I mean, there's exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, like if you want to play Final Fantasy on the original Game Boy, you're playing like Final Fantasy Legend, which is not good. And then Game Boy advance comes along and it's like, oh, now you can just play, you know, and you're getting more nes.
- [14:38]
Justin McElroy
You're getting NES ports on GBA too, right? Exactly.
- [14:41]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes. But there are these moments where you were playing a Game Boy advance game and it just was shocking. Like, it was like it surprised you how much the game opened up itself. And I feel like that this game just captures that vibe, like you were saying also of like, there's more there there. And if you don't go to it, like expecting to kind of get your ass kicked and really have to like commit to the game, you'll. You'll be caught off guard.
- [15:08]
Griffin McElroy
There's also a really fun tropical vibe to the game. It was made by a developer, what's Their Pocket Trap, a Brazilian indie developer. And I don't know, the game seems to have a lot of cultural influence too, and sort of like the soundtrack and the design. I used the word charming to describe it earlier. It really is one that I was not expecting to, I don't know, put a lot of time into. But we just had two extremely long coast to coast flights and I could not put Pipestrello down.
- [15:45]
Justin McElroy
They have previously worked on Dodgeball Academia. Oh yeah, Ningen on Cartoon Network and HBO Max, which is a cartoon, not a video game.
- [15:55]
Russ Freshick
I also want to call attention to just the narrative beats. Specifically the idea that like Pipistrello is kind of like a shitty Nepo baby kid.
- [16:04]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:05]
Russ Freshick
Like the game starts and you're like coming back from a yo yo tournament where you just did like pretty poorly. And your aunt is like, he's a shithead. Yeah, he's a shithead. Your aunt is very wealthy. She like runs the energy company for the entire city, basically. And a bunch of Villains.
- [16:22]
Griffin McElroy
She's an oil baron, essentially. Like, she's not great either.
- [16:25]
Russ Freshick
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Justin McElroy
Your whole family sucks.
- [16:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Right?
- [16:26]
Russ Freshick
So. So the. A bunch of villains show up, and they're like, hey, you're stealing. You know, you're charging us. Raking over the coals over this energy. And they, like, steal all her batteries and eventually, I think, accidentally suck her soul into the yo Yo. But, like, they kind of have a point. And.
- [16:43]
Justin McElroy
That's right. They're not wrong. They're breaking up the monopoly of Ma Belle and, like, breaking up into five different things, and she's like, the only thing that can save my soul is you have to rebuild Monopoly.
- [16:54]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [16:55]
Russ Freshick
So it's. It's a very clever, I think, twist. The level of nuance. You don't get in a lot of those GBA games.
- [17:01]
Justin McElroy
I honestly, also, at this point, I think it's really. I think if you're already gonna do this retro aesthetic and you're gonna do, like, you might as well do something different with the narrative, right? Like, why are we having to save the world again? You know what I mean? Like, just do something fun. Do something a little bit off the wall like this. I dig it.
- [17:19]
Russ Freshick
Yeah. I agree.
- [17:21]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah. A wonderful little surprise. Wonderful little treat. I think I'm almost done with it. It's not like the biggest thing in the world.
- [17:28]
Justin McElroy
It feels like it's like, deal two, eight, or nine.
- [17:31]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah. Like, I've played so many monster games this year that have required so much of me. Having this little weird bat boy, like, in my rag ally like, hey, want to come throw some yo yos at some guys?
- [17:46]
Justin McElroy
I will say Griffin. Every episode of Griffin's monster games on G4 this season has been better than the one before it.
- [17:51]
Griffin McElroy
Oh, thank you so much, man.
- [17:52]
Justin McElroy
I'm so glad that Griffin's still playing the monster games for us, the fans.
- [17:56]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah. When we last are lost our axe partnership, I thought that that was gonna be the end for us, but. Yeah, no, we persevere.
- [18:05]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You've been breathing really well, though. Fresh air. It smelled great. Yeah.
- [18:10]
Griffin McElroy
I do miss the stink. That good stink, though.
- [18:13]
Justin McElroy
It's important this one isn't life changing. You know what I mean? It's not one of those where it's like, you know what? And, you know, end of the year, I don't know. This feels like the kind of thing that we'll. I don't know if we'll remember, but if you want something, like, really solid and amusing and pleasant and fun, this is like, just like, all around, and it helps you.
- [18:32]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah, like download it on a Friday, play it for the weekend or if you have a long trip and very.
- [18:38]
Justin McElroy
Respectful of your time. Yeah, it wants you to have fun. It doesn't want to waste your time. It's. It's very pleasant.
- [18:44]
Russ Freshick
If this game had come out in the GBA era, it would have been like nines and tens. I have no doubt. Like, it just like is incredibly capable of what it's doing. And I agree with you. Might not make the goati list, but like I've had a blast playing it.
- [18:58]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, let's take a break and then let's go visit the man of Steel in his Crystal Palace.
- [19:10]
Christopher Thomas Plant
If I go crazy, this one is a little Superman for you, a little sting. I don't want to give you the whole thing. This episode is brought to you in part by Factor. Summer is here. There is sun pouring down from the sky through your windows and you want to be outside having a great time. You want to be in the pool. You want to be out on a hike. The one thing you probably don't want to be doing is spending hours inside cooking. That is where Factor comes in. You get chef crafted dietitian approved meals that are ready in just two minutes. Takes the hassle out of eating one well. With 45 weekly menu options, you can pick gourmet meals that fit your summer gains and goals. Choose from options like Calorie Smart, Protein plus Keto and more. Factor powers your day from the sun coming up, the sun going down with nutritious breakfast on the go, lunches, premium dinners and guilt free snacks and desserts. Factor has your whole day covered. Enjoy more this summer. Get Factor if you want all the flavor and none of the fuss. I really enjoy my Factor meals. I love one the E's obviously like that's the clear thing. But I also love that they taste good and I feel good after I eat them. Those two things do not always come together and yet when I dig into a meal, whether it is my vegetarian or pescatarian preferences or for my father in law who enjoys the meatier stuff, it's all delicious, reliably. So get started@factor meals.com besties 50 off and use code besties 50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box, that's code besties5.0off@factormeals.com besties50 0 off for 50% off plus free shipping factor meals.com besties 50 off.
- [21:32]
Griffin McElroy
I have bought not one, not two, maybe two subscriptions to two different farting piano apps And I've done it because my youngest will be yelling, need this fart piano. Please, papa. Please, Papa, please. And I'll be like, yeah, sure, I'll subscribe to it, and then I'll remember to cancel it before the free trial is over. No, that never happens. I always end up paying for Fart Piano and Fart Piano Deluxe for a good seven to eight months until I do my subscription hygiene check with Rocket Money and it catches it in the drag nuts. And Dragna is a new one, and it saves me buku bucks. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. They've got over 5 million members who've saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket money. Go to Rocketmoney.combestbesties today. That's Rocketmoney.combesties one last time. Rocketmoney.combesties.
- [22:43]
Justin McElroy
We'Ve all seen Superman, Jim.
- [22:46]
Griffin McElroy
The whole world has Superman. Superman.
- [22:48]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Apparently.
- [22:48]
Griffin McElroy
I believe so. Yeah.
- [22:49]
Russ Freshick
A fair number of people saw it. Yes. Yeah.
- [22:52]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Why do you feel it's appropriate for us to talk about Superman on video game podcast? I have feelings. I think I have an answer, but I want to hear it from you.
- [23:00]
Justin McElroy
Geek shit.
- [23:02]
Griffin McElroy
Geek shit, man. Yeah, we just talked about a little video.
- [23:06]
Justin McElroy
I have no other venue. If I talk about it with my brothers on my other shows, they'll try to make me do boner jokes about it. So I have to talk about it here. What do you want? Sorry.
- [23:14]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Kevin Smith over here.
- [23:18]
Justin McElroy
No, I don't want to do that. I want to be taken seriously as a Superman critic. Holy shit. I am Kevin Smith.
- [23:25]
Christopher Thomas Plant
How is Dark Clinton? Noah's Lane? Do it.
- [23:29]
Russ Freshick
Plant. Why do you think we should talk about Superman the movie?
- [23:33]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Because Superman is the original gamer, if you think about it.
- [23:37]
Justin McElroy
Oh, heck yeah, dude.
- [23:38]
Christopher Thomas Plant
He's always in God mode. Am I right?
- [23:41]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah.
- [23:41]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You ever think about heaven?
- [23:42]
Griffin McElroy
So many good ones.
- [23:43]
Justin McElroy
Wait, sorry, do you mean Henry Cavill Superman? Because he is the original gamer. He has LEDs on his computer. There's no question.
- [23:51]
Griffin McElroy
They got a different guy now. I think I will. Let me. Can I start? Because I had the most tempered excitement.
- [23:59]
Russ Freshick
For this game and we will avoid spoilers as part of this conversation.
- [24:02]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, we're not going to bring up any spoilers. I genuinely. I'VE not watched a superhero film since, I think Shang Chi, I believe, was the last one that I. That I did. What? No, that's not true. We saw the Deadpool v Wolverine, which was, which was fun, but like, I don't know, man, I didn't care about DC at all. I've never really found Superman particularly enjoyable as a character. I thought man of Steel is one of the. Well, because that's a good point.
- [24:32]
Russ Freshick
You gotta knock him down before you rise him up.
- [24:35]
Justin McElroy
No, no, no, Griffin, knock him down.
- [24:36]
Griffin McElroy
And I'll rebuild him. I think what they've done here has been very fun. And I think that what they've done here is very iconic and very smart and very, I don't know, just really canny to go back to kind of like brass tacks, Superman as a beacon of hope without really much complication on top of that. Like, the movie is very much about how the rest of the world reacts to him as this straightforward scion of hope. And I don't know, I think that's a very, very interesting choice. And I think that it probably wouldn't have played maybe 10 years ago before the DC universe got the treatment that it got in cinema. But this very much feels like a. I don't know, a response to that. And I really ended up liking it quite a bit.
- [25:29]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, this is always the kind of Superman movie that should be made. I don't agree with. I want to reject the idea that Zack Snyder's Superman was the Superman for that time. And this is the Superman we need now. The Zack Snyder Superman was a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. Period. The end writ large. History has proven that to be true and culture will agree with me throughout the millennia. I said it then and history has proven me right.
- [25:54]
Russ Freshick
I mean, this is a super. There are comic books that like, are authentic to what Zack Snyder was trying to do with that. No, no, I don't think those movies are good, but.
- [26:03]
Christopher Thomas Plant
No, no, no, dude, like the long term plan for Zack Snyder was that like Superman was or no, Batman was going to have sex with Lois Lane and then Superman was going to turn evil and like kill.
- [26:17]
Russ Freshick
He did turn evil.
- [26:20]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yeah.
- [26:20]
Russ Freshick
Anyway, yeah, it was not good. I think we can all agree with that.
- [26:23]
Justin McElroy
But I'm not saying good or bad movie. It doesn't like, whatever. It's just that's not who the character is. And people who defended it were people who'd never liked Superman and then they liked Superman because they got Superman wrong. That's fine too. Freaking great, man. I think that Good for you. I'm glad you got some movies you like. This is a movie that recognizes what Superman is about and then asks a lot of interesting questions about it, about what Superman is and who Superman is and why he does what he does. And then most importantly, comes up with a lot of interesting answers and has the strength of his convictions to say, like, this is sort of what we were thinking. And by doing that, by like being willing to throw away like the convention or the things that have to be in a Superman movie or have to be part of a Superman story or have to be part of a superhero movie. I think, moreover, like, that have to fit into that template or, you know, cast aside. And I think that that's what. That's actually where I would say it's closer to Deadpool vs. Wolverine, in a sense, weirdly, because that movie was specific to those characters. Like, that was specifically that kind of the movie for them. And it wasn't in the typical formula. And this is a movie for Superman. Like, this is a movie to explore what he means and not a franchise starting, you know, superhero movie. Even though it obviously is pulling double duty.
- [27:46]
Russ Freshick
This, I think the thing that stood out to me most is just the overall tone of this movie from like all of the other characters delivering performances in this movie is blase. And I actually say that in a good way. There is like an accepting, just like, well, that's how it is aspect to this universe that James Gunn is presenting. That feels like it allows me to not only buy that Superman exists in this world, but also that he's like. People sort of like sometimes shrug at him and, oh, he's being ridiculous. And it all kind of works because.
- [28:21]
Justin McElroy
Everyone is just like that pre crazy.
- [28:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
There's a scene where a conversation is happening that could be happening anywhere. It could be happening in a windowless room. And instead, outside the window, a giant galaxy tearing monster is being fought by other superheroes.
- [28:35]
Russ Freshick
It's a Tuesday for them.
- [28:37]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's a Tuesday.
- [28:37]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, exactly.
- [28:38]
Justin McElroy
There's a really. It's a. There's a really smart, like the first credit, like not credit, but like the first text scroll on the screen. And not exactly this, but it's some equivalent of 3,000 years ago, there were gods. 300 years ago, there were the first superheroes. 30 years ago, Superman came to Earth. Three years ago, he came out as Superman. Three hours ago, he started this fight. Three minutes ago, he just lost the first fight of his life. And it's so smart because it's like, okay, we're Resetting everything. Yeah, this is it. This is where we're at right now. Okay. And it looks exactly like. It doesn't look exactly like, but it reminds me of the scrolls that you find in the beginning of issues of Comics that aren't the first one, you know, because you'll get, like, a page of setup that's like, okay, here's kind of where we're at now. Back to the story. And that's what this feels like. It feels like we're joining it, like, as it's already started. Because you don't have to introduce who Superman is.
- [29:32]
Russ Freshick
Clark and Lois are already together. Like, you're. You're. It's in Media Rescue. And that immediately engages you. And also it solves the problem of, like, Superman's boring because he wins all the time. He loses a lot in this movie. And not because, you know, they fall on the, like, usual Kryptonite sword. Like, he's kind of just, like, much more, I think, vulnerable and literally, I mean, vulnerable in this movie than he is in other presentations. Because that's more interesting. You want to think that he might lose.
- [30:02]
Christopher Thomas Plant
What I think works best, both of what you Fresh and Hoops are saying is it feels like a story of the week. Like, this does not feel like the most important Lex Luthor story to ever be told. It feels small, like a Lex Luthor story. There will be more of them. And the way that all the. Like, I saw some complaints about the many, many extended universe characters who show up in this movie and how people are like, hey, I liked it, but, like, I'm just so annoyed that it's going to be setting up more stuff. And it feels like that's just not the case. And I hope that that's not the case. It feels more like if you. I mean, again, if you read the comics, this is how it just works in the comics. It's closer to the Simpsons, actually, where characters are always just drifting in and out. And maybe you get an episode where they're important, but for the most part, they're just there because, honestly, plant moment, it.
- [31:02]
Justin McElroy
What you're talking about is actually, I think, a huge part of the reason that Marvel ran out of steam. Because the fun. Once you gave us the fun of seeing 20 superheroes interacting in one movie, it is so hard to go back to just one guy running around. Who cares? And Ant Man's super small like that. How can he compete? It feels that way. Like, you're missing a lot of those. I thought we were gonna go more in that direction when you had like Civil War was a good example of this where like it was a Captain America movie in title, but it was doing a lot more. But that's so hard to communicate. I can't imagine, like unless people are bought in for every movie when the.
- [31:39]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Stakes are just too high. Right. Like that's the other thing with Marvel.
- [31:42]
Griffin McElroy
I don't think I consciously realized that. One of the reasons I enjoyed the movie so much is because it wasn't trying to splinter off all of these different. Like the idea of there being a full feature length film about Nathan Fillion's Hal Jordan is so unthinkable.
- [31:58]
Russ Freshick
He's Guy Gardner, actually.
- [32:00]
Griffin McElroy
Guy Gardner.
- [32:01]
Justin McElroy
Sorry.
- [32:01]
Griffin McElroy
Yes. Is so like, seems so beyond the realm of possibility now.
- [32:07]
Justin McElroy
That said, we're gonna get a Mr. Terrific show.
- [32:11]
Griffin McElroy
A Mr. Terrific show does feel. It definitely feels King Carrie.
- [32:14]
Russ Freshick
I also want to call attention to the performance of Nicholas Hoult who plays Lex Luthor. Because in every memory that I have of any Lex Luthor, and this is probably not. I haven't read a ton of Superman comics, but in the movies that I've seen where he's been featured, I've always seen him as like a force of greed. Like he wants a shitload of money, like Gene Hackman. The whole plot of I believe Superman 1 was a real estate plot to like get more money by basically Chinatown.
- [32:49]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [32:50]
Russ Freshick
His motivation in this movie has nothing to do with money, has nothing to do with power. It is purely a ego, like envy. Superman fucking sucks. And I kind of love that. The simplicity of that.
- [33:02]
Justin McElroy
Who Lex Luthor is like. It's like that is that. That's speaking right to the soul of the guy.
- [33:08]
Russ Freshick
Yeah.
- [33:08]
Justin McElroy
That's what makes him compelling. He does this. Nicholas Holt does a speech towards the end of this that I think like, about envy that I think speaks to Lex Luthor so elegantly.
- [33:18]
Griffin McElroy
It's like fucking great.
- [33:19]
Justin McElroy
It's like outstanding.
- [33:21]
Griffin McElroy
I also want to shout out Rachel Brosnahan, I think is the best Lois Lane that I've ever seen in a live action Superman thing.
- [33:31]
Russ Freshick
I don't know that she's a good reporter, but that's not a knock on her performance. I think she makes sense.
- [33:36]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Let's talk about the journalism in this movie because it's wild.
- [33:39]
Griffin McElroy
Yes.
- [33:39]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's very cool.
- [33:40]
Justin McElroy
It's really bad.
- [33:42]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Well, okay, so it's really bad and it's really good and it's very critical of it while not always understanding it. So the problem is Superman as Clark Kent interviews himself and Lois Lane is Rightly, like, that seems like a bad. But then Lois Lane interviews Superman, Clark Kent, who she's in a relationship with, which is also bad. They also publish information without ever, like, vetting it or, like, asking for comment, which is weird. The thing that I did like, though, in this movie, and I think it's, like, almost the point of the movie, is it's really easy to let a system trap you and to prevent progress. And by that, I mean, like, there are conversations throughout the movie where Superman's like, I want to do good, and Lois Lane's like, yes, but did you go through all of the right steps? Did you go through the government? Did you do all this? And what we see is Lex Luthor in the movie use that, like, process to grind down Superman. Like, he is literally using the apparatus of the government in the media to, like, punish him. Which doesn't feel so different than when you will open the New York Times and see something that is clearly, like. It's the classic trumpy thing of, like, people are saying, and then suddenly it's like a news cycle. I don't know. I just found the journalism in this movie really weird and really interesting. Also, they publish a story in the climax of the movie, and you get to see the cms. And I just. I live for that.
- [35:25]
Russ Freshick
It's basically not since Shattered Glass has a CMS had so much attention on screen.
- [35:30]
Griffin McElroy
So it's great.
- [35:31]
Justin McElroy
Yeah. One thing is, can we lose the dog?
- [35:35]
Griffin McElroy
We can't. We absolutely couldn't.
- [35:37]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Wow.
- [35:38]
Griffin McElroy
There's a lot of dog stuff, but.
- [35:40]
Justin McElroy
It'S a little too much dog stuff for me. It feels a little. Are you.
- [35:43]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Are you saying it's like your. Your dish came with too much salt and pepper on it? Like, it was a little too much of the spice?
- [35:48]
Justin McElroy
I'm just saying they probably text Dog name registry. Saw a lot of cryptos in there and thought maybe we could pick up a few milli at the box office. If we slip the dog in a few more scenes, they're going to love this dog. The test. The test.
- [36:00]
Russ Freshick
It's actually set up.
- [36:01]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You talk about how many dogs are gonna get adopted, though, over the next few months. There are gonna be so many cryptos, crypto trappers, and I am not. I am completely vulnerable to that.
- [36:10]
Russ Freshick
Crypto is also the only character outside of a very brief cameo that I won't spoil. That is setting up a future movie that is coming out next year. Like, well, I mean, guaranteed crypto is gonna be featured in whatever the next movie is.
- [36:26]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Is this the Best PR for crypto. Like just the word crypto in a long time.
- [36:33]
Justin McElroy
Think about that.
- [36:33]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It is with a K. You know.
- [36:35]
Justin McElroy
It'S with a K. What I dig about the crypto stuff, which I joke about, what I'd like about it is that it feels like a non. It feels like a personality choice rather than an authoritative choice. It feels like the decision to say, like, with this Superman, which is how Superman has been in the comics the whole time, right. With this Superman, we're trying something different. This take on Superman does this. I feel like this is a movie that has the courage to kind of say, this isn't every Superman ever. This isn't the definitive cinematic Superman. This is this Superman.
- [37:07]
Russ Freshick
And honestly, like, that's the answer for all Superman's in a way. Like, he's gone through so many transformations since 1930 that like, if you were to say, point that this definitive Superman, like some people would say Christopher Reeve, definitive Superman, some people would say, I don't know, fucking Lois and Clark Superman. Like, there are so many approaches to.
- [37:26]
Justin McElroy
It, but they're trying to. Like, if you look at Superman Returns, that was not a movie about establishing a take on Superman. That was a movie about trying to recapture the take that Richard Donner.
- [37:38]
Russ Freshick
That's true. That is true.
- [37:40]
Justin McElroy
Right. So it's like not. You don't have the personality. It's a fake. It's a. It's an imitation act.
- [37:45]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I think it also immediately says, like, there's a certain degree of silliness and lightheartedness when.
- [37:50]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:50]
Russ Freshick
I mean, Crypto fucking him up at the beginning after he's been beat up and he's in the snow. This happens in the first 30 seconds of the movie. Crypto runs up. You think crypto is going to save him. And crypto fucks him up real good. And Crypto being a bad dog, like a. Like literally they say multiple times he's a bad dog. He's like a troublesome.
- [38:07]
Griffin McElroy
It's a good.
- [38:08]
Russ Freshick
It's great. It's like so smart and such are such an adjustment of what you expect not only from Superman dog, but also from any dog in any movie ever is usually like a pretty fucking good dog. Like there's not a lot of asshole dogs in movies. Cujo maybe. So nice.
- [38:25]
Justin McElroy
Yeah. But the thing is with all these choices that it's making and the personality and stuff, what's important is that it gets at. It uses that original perspective and that original insight to get at the central question with Superman and the central thing of his character which is always about helping people and being a symbol and doing good. That those fundamentals of who the character is, those are still there. Those are unchanged. And I think that's really why it works so well.
- [38:52]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Do you feel like we're going to be getting more of this type of DCU for the foreseeable future, or do you think that they'll commit to the, hey, we have this, and then we have Robert Pattinson as Batman and a totally different thing. And then maybe we have another Batman that's Silver Age Batman, because that was always like, the promise of James Gunn. But, you know, the promise is easy to make when you don't have the most successful movie in the world. And then suddenly people are like, I want a million of these.
- [39:23]
Russ Freshick
I do not know how the fuck. First of all, I think James Gunn walks. If they start forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do, I don't think there's no incentive keeping him there if they, like, really pull the thread on him. Secondly, I don't think there's any way to meld Robert Pattinson, James Gunn, Robert Pattinson, Batman with this movie. I think they would need to be separate. I think it could be five to seven years before, like, Batman gets injected to this world because it is so vastly different. And honestly, I'd be cool with them never getting injected into one another because they're such different properties. That's fine with me. But I do think that anything that involves the super family, if you will, and they've already announced the Supergirl movie, has to be at least in the ballpark of this tone.
- [40:09]
Justin McElroy
I would maybe. I don't know. Right. Because it's like, you see some things that come back around to where the tone makes sense again. Right. Like you have. I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine is a good example where the Wolverine of some of those movies, who was also Hugh Jackman, would not make sense. The two movies wouldn't make sense, smooshed together. But if you take the character, you might be able to make something happen with just the. It's about taking the character out of the world and putting him in the other world. Right. Like, you have to commit to one of the tones. Smashing up the movies wouldn't make sense.
- [40:42]
Russ Freshick
That's fair. I think you could put one of.
- [40:44]
Justin McElroy
Those characters into the other movie.
- [40:46]
Russ Freshick
I was gonna say they also did that with Thor, where they changed tones dramatically from one movie to the next.
- [40:52]
Christopher Thomas Plant
We will find out how weird it's gonna get very quickly because no more DC movies this year. Next year, Supergirl comes out in June, in September, Clayface, the movie written by Mike Flanagan, of all people.
- [41:10]
Griffin McElroy
Fuck, yeah, man. Actually, yeah.
- [41:13]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Writer of Haunting, of Hill House, Haunting of Blind Manor, Midnight Mass. I am very curious about what that means. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of standalone stuff to me. There's also another Batman movie.
- [41:26]
Russ Freshick
Well, that's what I'm saying. So maybe that's the solution. Yeah, maybe is just have it go as long as you can stand alone. Don't stress about building up to a fucking Justice League movie. Just make very, very good movies until people really care about D.C. again, which they.
- [41:45]
Justin McElroy
I don't know. I feel like this impulse is part of the problem, right? Like, the impulse to say, okay, now I really like this one. Gimme five.
- [41:53]
Russ Freshick
Yeah.
- [41:54]
Justin McElroy
Like, I feel like it's part of the issue, right? Which maybe, hopefully they've learned the lesson, right? Hopefully they just do the movies that people want to do that people are interested in doing. Like Matt. Matt Reeves, Batman. I feel like history will be very good to Matt Reeves Batman. I feel like the first time I watched it, I thought this kind of boring in a lot of it. But I think when you go back to. It's like, he really likes Batman a lot and he really has a very specific idea about Batman that is kind of funky. Like, I kind of dig it. Matt, he seems like he really wants to make the next Batman movie. He just wants to, like, take time.
- [42:27]
Christopher Thomas Plant
To do it turned in. Yeah, Big LA Town.
- [42:31]
Justin McElroy
I prefer he take a long time with it. That's good.
- [42:34]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Cut some parts out about that. I think I'd be much more excited for another Matt Reeves Batman movie if I hadn't got that Joker stinger, which really made me worry about anything after that.
- [42:46]
Justin McElroy
Now, listen, if you could give me. What about Matt Reeves Batman, Mr. Terrific, that would. That would be a. That would be a hell of a film. Watch that.
- [42:54]
Griffin McElroy
What if we had Joaquin Phoenix, Joker and Jared Leto Joker in the same movie?
- [42:58]
Justin McElroy
Just do it.
- [42:59]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Just do it.
- [43:00]
Justin McElroy
Sorry.
- [43:00]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Can we do one more Superman thing and then we'll wrap the Mr. Terrific fight sequence.
- [43:06]
Justin McElroy
I wrote a Superman rap is what plant is referring to the man of Steel really makes me feel like. Sorry. Yeah.
- [43:14]
Christopher Thomas Plant
The Mr. Terrific fight sequence is amazing. And the best use of the Guardians of the Galaxy type of.
- [43:22]
Griffin McElroy
It is the only needle drop in the film that did not annoy me. It was the only needle drop I enjoyed.
- [43:27]
Justin McElroy
First note out of Superman. We walk out of it into the beautiful California sunshine. So happy for this film. And Griffin was like, could have done without all the needle drops. James. Like, okay, Griffin.
- [43:38]
Griffin McElroy
I mean, that's his deal, and I get it. But it does feel like you've just gotten your uncle's car and he's, like, plugging in the aux cable.
- [43:48]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's so good. Somebody I read mentioned that it looked a little bit like a theater staging where the actors, the villains are, like, kind of like they're almost dancing in their way that they're getting thrown across. But I love that. I love that style. There's a lightness to the whole movie that just feels like a throwback that.
- [44:07]
Griffin McElroy
I don't know.
- [44:07]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I feel, like, safe watching it. I feel good.
- [44:10]
Justin McElroy
Oh, okay. Very tiny thing. Like, little thing. To that point. When we're with the Justice Gang. Hilarious lady of justice gang. Guy Gardner says at one point, what I'd really like to do is hit you all with a giant hammer when he's frustrated. And there is such a canny cut to Hawkgirl smiling at Guy being Guy. That shows that is, like, defusing the situation. But it's like, it's really smart because it's like, wait, how does Hawk Girl. Okay, she's fine with. Like, this isn't a bad situation for her. And it's totally. It's a half a second. But you do cut to her. She's good. Back to the like. That's a really smart filmmaker. That's somebody who's, like, thinking about, how do these characters live in this era? Because in the 1990s, no one is getting a cutaway after Guy Gardner. Guy Gardner is probably the hero of the whole thing. Is played by Dolph Lundgren. Right?
- [45:07]
Griffin McElroy
Like, hey, anybody been watching or playing anything else?
- [45:11]
Justin McElroy
Oh, man.
- [45:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Video games. What have you all been playing? Did you play anything while traveling?
- [45:19]
Griffin McElroy
I played a bunch more. Monster Train 2. I don't really have a ton to add. I've been unlocking more of the different clans, and the way that you combine them to make different decks really does make the runs feel pretty dramatically different in a way that I am finding very compelling. It hasn't quite got its hooks in me as deeply as a slay the spire. But I don't know. I feel like I will play a run with two of these clans in it. And then I'll have this idea of, like, wait a minute. If you use the pyre Born clan with the one that buffs the magic, then I bet you could get into some pretty nasty shit. And I don't know. I've been theory crafting that game in my off Time, which has been very enjoyable. I also finished Murderbot and I think they did a great job with that. I think the last episode is really strong and really sells Skarsgrd as the titular Murderbot.
- [46:12]
Russ Freshick
That's another good example of tone and really diverging from what you view as a sci fi tone in a very interesting way. I thought they did a great job.
- [46:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
I have been playing a game called Maze Mice which I'll probably talk a little bit more on rescues, but I'm dropping here so people know to check this out. Hoops. I think this is definitely yours.
- [46:33]
Justin McElroy
Mice.
- [46:35]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Maze Mice is a vampire survivors like meets Pac Man. So you are in a Pac man map and you have enemies.
- [46:47]
Justin McElroy
Are you killing the mice or are you one of the mice?
- [46:49]
Christopher Thomas Plant
You are the mice and you're being chased by cats and they are following you, following you, following you and they follow your path. Exactly. So in a way it also kind of has that snake vibe where like they become your tail.
- [47:02]
Justin McElroy
Oh, you know what, that's also kind of like Deep Rock Galactic Survivors right at the same where like you're setting up. Is it like traps and stuff that you're trying to into or you're, you're.
- [47:12]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Yes, but instead of it being a big free for all map like Deep Rock, it is Pac man stages. And to get your upgrades, you are collecting pellets that you know, reset after you've collected them. So you collect a line of pellets and then they'll appear somewhere else in the map that you have to find a way to get to without running into your own tale of monsters.
- [47:33]
Russ Freshick
Oh, I was going to say I didn't realize it's the same. Is it the same developer as Luck Be a Landlord?
- [47:39]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Is it Trampoline Tales?
- [47:41]
Russ Freshick
Looks like it maybe.
- [47:43]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Oh yeah, it is. But yes, a really cool thing that it does is you. You move the enemies move the like kind of classic rogue system. So when you watch trailers of it, it looks like it's moving fast like Pac man, but the reality is down to the frame you are choosing to move. So if you want to make a sharp corner and you're really worried about nailing it, you can down to the frame move without the enemies like swarming on you. Or you can stop at a intersection and decide which way you want to go without having to just like constantly be zipping all over the map.
- [48:21]
Russ Freshick
I like that.
- [48:22]
Christopher Thomas Plant
And inadvertently creating a situation where you run into your own tail.
- [48:27]
Russ Freshick
It is.
- [48:28]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It's really neat.
- [48:30]
Justin McElroy
Seven bucks right now, folks. Get out there and grab it What a steal. It's a deal.741 with tax.
- [48:36]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Come on, Hoops. How about you? Anything else you've been enjoying?
- [48:40]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, I played a lot of Tron Catalyst, the new Tron thing from Bithell Games. The last one was a lot talkier. This is more action.
- [48:53]
Russ Freshick
But here's the last Tron game or the last game.
- [48:56]
Justin McElroy
The last Tron thing that Bithell did was more Tron. What was it called?
- [49:01]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Like a visual novel almost.
- [49:03]
Justin McElroy
Yeah, yeah, help me with the title of somebody.
- [49:07]
Christopher Thomas Plant
It was Tron Identity. Yes, Tron Identity.
- [49:11]
Justin McElroy
So this. Yes. So Tron this is. Yeah, that was more of a visual novel. This is a new one that is much more action oriented. The combat is probably closest to like a Hades, something like that. From that isometric point of view where you are like throwing your disk and using your disc to attack enemies. There is also. It's all presented in like an open world where you are able to take out your light cycle and travel around the world at any time independently. If you know Tron, you're a computer program and this is a story like that where at the beginning of your computer program that is delivering, you're like a delivery program. And in the middle of your delivery, this delivery that you're carrying explodes and creates a glitch. And the glitch is represented through a time loop. So you're living through the same time loop to try to solve. And when you wake up, you are told by the first person, like, hey, we don't know who did this. We don't know what was in there. But because of this glitch, you were able to live certain chunks of your time over and over and over again. So basically, you're able to repeat time to try to solve your own murder, to see who caused the glitch, who blew it up. And you can use this ability to reset time where, like, you'll get a code in your identity, this for a door, right? And then the next time you do the loop, you've already got that code. So you don't have to meet the guy in got the code from.
- [50:33]
Russ Freshick
You play. You play that game Minute, where you had one.
- [50:35]
Justin McElroy
So, yeah, Minute is a really good example. Narratively, it's a lot like Minute, except it's not always the same beginning, right? You'll eventually get through a chunk and then you'll move on to the next sort of chunk and then you'll start doing that chunk over and over again. So unlike like a death loop, where it's always the same day or Always the same time. Once you sort of like piece together how a loop is supposed to go, or like your ideal thing, you'll move into the next segment and the next loop and it'll sort of like flow into the next chunk. But like, a lot of times, like, for example, your progress will get blocked because you'll trigger an alarm, so you'll restart the time chunk to try to do it, you know, quicker or differently or whatever. Not a lot. It's not usually like specific timing based. It's not that deathloop thing of like, in 30 seconds this person's gonna be there. So make sure you're. It's not that complex. It's. It's. It's a little more fun and open ended than that, but it's. It's really well written, looks cool. I love the Tron. I've always loved the Tron aesthetic and all that stuff. So if you like Tron and you like being in that world with something that's a little bit more like, tactile, this is a really cool way of doing it.
- [51:45]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Cool.
- [51:45]
Justin McElroy
If you like Tron. Real quick, I also played Maroi.
- [51:50]
Russ Freshick
What is that?
- [51:53]
Justin McElroy
If you guys want to do something really weird, go to Steam, Skip M O R O I. It is. You guys sent a code so you can't get mad at me. It's the strangest damn thing that I have downloaded. It is so weird. It is like a dark fantasy surrealist action game where you wake up without a memory, but the entire thing looks like a gothic, like, nightmare, sort of. And the whole thing is surreal. You, like, meet the moon and the moon is mad at you for taking all of its energy. And you meet like, these. There's. It's extremely violent. So when you wander around the world and attack guys, you basically turn them into like guts and blood everywhere. And your character doesn't know why any of it is happening. The whole thing is like so surreal. If you watch like a trailer of it and if you like this aesthetic. I don't even. I'm struggling to like, compare it to anything just because it feels so weird. My. My. My touchstones for stuff like this is often things like, like those weird Ace team games. It feels like that sort of, like, surreal a little bit. Not Dark Souls with, like that edge. It's a little bit more like funny French surreal, you know, that kind of like European surreal. I don't know.
- [53:20]
Griffin McElroy
Sure.
- [53:21]
Justin McElroy
It's really. It's. It's very strange, but I kind of dig it. Like, it's. I don't know, it's worth it. It's worth trying. It's so like in the opening moments of the game, you have to find a corpse to feed to a machine that loves to eat people. And the machine is so happy that he grinds the bones of the corpse into a dust and you give the dust to a woman who makes a potion. And then that potion lets you create a sword in a nightmare. And you use the sword a duck gives you its teeth, and the teeth give your sword an extra edge. So Dark souls and you can use that.
- [53:58]
Griffin McElroy
To you, that sounds normal. It sounds like a guy saying, fucking.
- [54:02]
Justin McElroy
Give it a whirlwind. Give it a whirl.
- [54:04]
Russ Freshick
Sounds interesting.
- [54:05]
Justin McElroy
Don't say I ID it. You know what? Go to Steam. Look at the reviews. It's mixed. We love to see it mixed. Yeah, please.
- [54:12]
Griffin McElroy
It's been a while since I got.
- [54:13]
Russ Freshick
A little broken puppy to take care of.
- [54:15]
Justin McElroy
Oh, this one's broke as fuck. It's good.
- [54:19]
Russ Freshick
Real quick, I've been playing.
- [54:20]
Justin McElroy
It looks like if the Neverhood was made by somebody, it ain't. Absolute dipshit.
- [54:25]
Russ Freshick
Real quick, I've been playing Tears of the Kingdom 2 on Switch. I have a bunch of stuff that I haven't done in that game, despite spending, I don't know, like 150 hours the first time I played it.
- [54:36]
Christopher Thomas Plant
Tears of the Kingdom two?
- [54:38]
Griffin McElroy
No, it's just Tears of the Kingdom.
- [54:39]
Russ Freshick
I don't know why did I say? I mean. Well, I'm playing it on Twitch too. That's probably. I probably misspoke. Oh, but I'm finding the Koroks and I'm building the signs for that guy. Apparently there's a hundred of those guys around, and so I'm finding them and it's like a great, oh, I have five minutes. I can build a sign. Or, oh, I have five minutes. I'm going to ship this Korok.
- [54:58]
Griffin McElroy
I would play a game that's just making signs for that guy so much.
- [55:00]
Russ Freshick
Fucking literally. Yeah. And the bummer of the original game, and honestly, I still think it's a bummer, is like, there's no real way to find all those guys without being a total psychopath. Like, you would have to draw a grid or whatever, use an online, like, screenshot. And now with Switch 2, if you get the upgrade, you can use the app and it, like, guides you to the different guys that you're missing, which isn't as I don't want to be using an app. I wish it was in game, but do you?
- [55:27]
Justin McElroy
I like you Ever have moments where you're like, listen to me. You know what I mean? Like, my dad was in the war. You know, all of our dads were in the war. You know, think about that, guys. All of our dads were in the war. And we're like, The Nintendo Switch 2 app will let you find all the guys. Finally. You can realistically find all the guys.
- [55:46]
Griffin McElroy
That's what they were fighting.
- [55:47]
Justin McElroy
That's what they were fighting for.
- [55:49]
Russ Freshick
Yeah. Well, good news. Our children will also be in the war. So it all comes back around.
- [55:53]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah, but then their kids, they'll be fine. Zelda 3, they're gonna be stoked for that one.
- [56:01]
Russ Freshick
Okay. I think we did it. I want to thank some.
- [56:04]
Justin McElroy
World War 4 will be spa fought with splatoon.
- [56:09]
Russ Freshick
Go over to patreon.com thebesties we've got some great ass content over there. Resties episodes. We've got new bracket episodes.
- [56:16]
Justin McElroy
Wait, sorry. Not great ass content.
- [56:18]
Griffin McElroy
I mean, no, there's some. There's some stuff.
- [56:21]
Russ Freshick
We haven't done that ranking yet, but maybe we'll do.
- [56:23]
Christopher Thomas Plant
We haven't covered butt night yet. Yeah, we'll do that.
- [56:25]
Griffin McElroy
Yeah.
- [56:26]
Russ Freshick
Thank you. To some new members. We have Nathaniel, we have Jason, we have Robert, and we have Julie. Ja. Thank you for being members. Next week we are playing big one. Donkey Kong bonanza.
- [56:39]
Griffin McElroy
Hell, yeah.
- [56:41]
Justin McElroy
Yeah.
- [56:42]
Russ Freshick
He's back.
- [56:43]
Justin McElroy
Here we go.
- [56:44]
Russ Freshick
Exciting.
- [56:45]
Justin McElroy
That's gonna do it for us on this week's episode of the besties. Be sure to join us again next week for the besties, because shouldn't the world's best friends pick the world's best besties?