AI is Coming for Real Estate Investors (You Have 5 Years) + Epstein Files, Candace Owens & DARK Conspiracies

Summary

The BetterLife Podcast

Episode Title: AI is Coming for Real Estate Investors (You Have 5 Years) + Epstein Files, Candace Owens & DARK Conspiracies
Hosts: Brandon Turner & Cam Cathcart
Release Date: December 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a break from the standard real estate deep-dives to have an unfiltered, wide-ranging conversation about AI’s impact on investing, recent world events, and societal undercurrents—culminating in a series of candid, often humorous debates on conspiracy thinking, public figures, and the meaning of living a "BetterLife."
The hosts use a mix of anecdotes, technical discussion, and personal philosophy to unpack hot topics—chatting about how AI could upend real estate, the chilling revelations from the Epstein files, Candace Owens’ latest controversies, and the seductive power of clickbait in the age of algorithm-driven media.

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Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. Charity, Networking, and the Power of Relationship Auctions

[00:00–03:27]

• Brandon and Cam kick off with lively banter about recent charity masterminds and relationship-oriented fundraising auctions.
• Discussion centers on the philosophy of investing in experiences and relationships versus things, highlighting how auctions can yield powerful, lasting connections.
• Quote: “Bid on the things that build relationships with people…you build a relationship…and then they're in your life forever.” – Brandon [02:25]

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2. How AI Is Revolutionizing Real Estate Practices—Today and Tomorrow

[06:04–12:48]

• AI in current business operations: Cam details advanced AI automations—from CRMs like Podio to Slack integration for team wins, and using image-recognition AI to estimate rehab budgets with surprising accuracy.
• Pain points AI can address: AI increasingly handles routine communications (like tenant maintenance requests), preliminary underwriting, and even sales coaching via call transcription analysis.
• Memorable example: ChatGPT highlights a missed sales opportunity by pinpointing a seller’s emotional pain point from a call transcript.
• Quote: “We can put in beds, baths, square footage, upload pictures, and [AI] spits out a rehab budget based on the pictures… and it is so accurate.” – Cam [08:44]

AI’s Disruptive Potential and Existential Threat to Small Investors

[12:48–16:53]

• Brandon and Cam discuss the looming threat of institutional investors (BlackRock, Blackstone) leveraging AI for mass acquisitions, potentially edging out smaller players and driving sea changes in the industry.
• The duo predicts only 5–10 years left before real estate business, as it’s known today, is fundamentally altered by advanced AI.
• Quote: “Almost everything we do in real estate like that, AI is going to be able to do for us… My fear is that BlackRock, Blackstone...will buy at scale.” – Brandon [12:48]

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3. AI in Everyday Life: Creativity, Productivity, and Collaboration

[16:53–21:51]

• Brandon gushes over AI-generated music, sharing how platforms like Suno have enabled him to create hundreds of songs in minutes and reflect on what it means for creative professionals.
• Discussion expands to AI as a “board of directors,” simulating wise counsel for strategic business decisions.
• Quote: “The best songs I’ve written…weren’t just me throwing into Suno—It was like, I had an idea, I workshopped it back and forth… I worked on it for a couple hours.” – Brandon [18:28]
• Cam reiterates: the users’ artfulness with prompts—their collaboration—is now the true skill.

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4. Society, Conspiracies, & Dark Underpinnings

[47:43–54:03, 54:13–71:28]

Epstein Files, Government, and the Nature of ‘They’

[47:43–30:03]

• Cam and Brandon reflect on the newly released Epstein files, positing that the real scandal transcends partisan politics—arguing the system is manipulated by entities above the left/right divide.
• Both hosts acknowledge the darkness and complexity, concluding that the best way to “fight back” is to focus on family, character, and raising good humans.
• Quote: “It’s so much more sinister than that. And Epstein played a huge part...they want the left and the right to be fighting.” – Cam [26:56]

Conspiracy Theories: Food Pyramid, Pharma, and Agency vs. Evil Agendas

[30:03–44:22]

• The hosts dissect the food pyramid, Big Pharma, and other popular conspiracies—noting that while incentives and systemic pressures can lead to harmful policies, it’s rare for a shadowy “cabal” to centrally plot evil outcomes.
• Quote: “Everything is incentive-based…there’s millions of people being incentivized certain ways, and that’s where most conspiracies end up.” – Brandon [32:22]
• Cam offers a more suspicious take and argues for the presence of at least some true malice or manipulation in history (e.g., the crack epidemic).

Nicotine, Social Narratives, and Taboo Science

[46:33–52:31]

• Cam defends nicotine (separated from tobacco) as unfairly vilified, lauding its cognitive and neuroprotective effects, while poking fun at “Big Nick” conspiracies.
• Brandon is humorously incredulous at Cam’s advocacy.
• Quote: “Nicotine has zero cancer-causing agents…It does not cause cancer at all.” – Cam [49:40]

Candace Owens, Social Media, and the Clickbait Economy

[53:30–61:11]

• The hosts talk about Candace Owens’ latest controversies, her incentives for sensationalism, and the broader pattern of the online outrage economy, arguing that the system, not individual malice, pushes personalities toward provocative, polarizing content.
• Brandon highlights how algorithmic rewards shape behavior across the influencer spectrum.
• Quote: “The system rewards opinionated people who make claims… The algorithm incentivizes it.” – Brandon [56:24]

Authenticity vs. Sensationalism in Content Creation

[61:44–71:28]

• Discussion on the ethical line between authentic content and click-driven exaggeration. Hosts critique “fake it till you make it” revenue boasts among influencers and sales trainers, praising the rare ones (like Alex Hormozi) who stay true to substance.
• Cam: “If everybody in the world did that, would the world be a better or a worse place?” [67:47]

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5. Roundtable: Social Media as Drug, Authenticity in Business, and the Limits of Influence

[72:24–88:00]

• Special guest Spencer Robbins joins to share perspectives on trauma, social media’s perverted incentives, and the tension between audience-building and ethical responsibility.
• The hosts discuss distinctions between educating/helping and merely profiting from mass content; debate whether real estate investing or reality TV “trash” are fundamentally different in their social impact.

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6. Conspiracies Revisited: Systems, Power, and Human Nature

[89:14–99:32]

• The group debates “Big Pharma,” population health, and the blurry line between systemic failures and intentional harm—shifting from individual villains to ecosystems of incentives.
• Arguments swirl around George Soros, the “one world order,” political polarization, and whether shadow organizations truly manipulate society or simply exploit natural human divisions.
• Personal Agency vs. Large-Scale Manipulation:
  • Brandon: “It’s not a conspiracy to make the thing happen. There may be a conspiracy to capitalize on a real-life situation.”

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7. Spiritual Conspiracies and the Demonic Angle

[99:32–102:52]

• Brandon closes with one of his “weirdest” theories: maybe many of society’s ills are driven by spiritual warfare—demons assigned by “region” or “sin.”
• Spencer and Cam reflect on the complex interplay of personal agency, spiritual influence, and the gradual perversion of good things into bad through misaligned incentives or demonic influence.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [02:25] Brandon: “Bid on the things that build relationships with people...”
• [08:44] Cam: “We can put in beds, baths...and [AI] spits out a rehab budget...so accurate.”
• [12:48] Brandon: “Almost everything we do in real estate like that, AI is going to be able to do for us...My fear is that BlackRock, Blackstone...will buy at scale.”
• [18:28] Brandon: “The best songs I’ve written…weren’t just me throwing into Suno…”
• [26:56] Cam: “It’s so much more sinister than that. And Epstein played a huge part...”
• [32:22] Brandon: “Everything is incentive-based…that’s where most conspiracies end up.”
• [49:40] Cam: “Nicotine has zero cancer-causing agents… It does not cause cancer at all.”
• [56:24] Brandon: “The system rewards opinionated people who make claims… The algorithm incentivizes it.”
• [67:47] Cam: “If everybody in the world did that, would the world be a better or a worse place?”
• [99:32] Brandon: “I do believe there’s a spiritual war…I think there is a—call it a demon—of murder...”

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is open, lively, and intentionally provocative, with both humor and insight.
• Brandon often adopts a skeptical, systems-based lens, Cam leans into more traditional conspiracy and populist suspicions.
• Even during heated or controversial takeaways, the show maintains camaraderie and constructive disagreement.
• The addition of a guest (Spencer Robbins) brings a more psychological and spiritual dimension to the discussion.

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Episode Takeaways

• AI will revolutionize, then threaten, traditional real estate investing—get in while you can.
• Systems/incentives drive most major “conspiracies,” not all-powerful secret cabals.
• Media rewards extreme, click-bait content; authentic voices and substance are rare but valuable.
• In the face of chaos and manipulation, what matters most is strong personal agency, family, and staying true to personal values—whether in business, creative work, or daily life.

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For anyone who hasn’t listened: expect an insightful, often hilarious, occasionally wild tour of tech, business, society, and philosophy—a refreshingly honest interrogation of the world’s big questions, delivered with the ease of real-life friends hashing it out over drinks.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Better Life podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Turner, here with my co host, Mr. Cam Cathcart.

[B]

Dude, what's up?

[A]

What's up, Cam?

[B]

Not much, man.

[A]

This is a new little setup.

[B]

It is.

[A]

You're back here, I'm back here. Maui. At least for the next, like, five days. Yeah. So we'll. Yeah, we'll get a couple of good podcast recordings in and then, then I'm off to where, South Carolina, for Mastermind.

[B]

And is that Wellspring?

[A]

No, that's a guy named Stu McLaren, teaches, like, how to create membership communities, kind of like Better Tribe or First Deal, and he does a fundraiser. Mastermind. This is actually a pretty legit cool, like, thing they do is they've got a charity, and to raise money for the charity, they bring together some of the biggest, like, Internet marketing experts in the world. Like, last time I went, there was like, Dan Martel was there. We hung out for the whole time. Cody Sanchez was there. And we just hang out for two days in Mastermind. And then there's a fund, like a telethon at the end, basically, where they raise money. It's like, what a sick idea. Like, I should do that for, like, a fundraiser sometime. We bring all the biggest real estate investors in the world to one place, Mastermind, for two days, and then raise couple hundred thousand dollars. Give it away.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

It's a cool idea.

[B]

How much did they raise last year? Do you remember?

[A]

I think it was like a quarter million dollars, something like that.

[B]

Dang.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

Yeah, it's a cool idea. And it's like a. Yeah. Free to attend.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

So all of us free.

[B]

So they're trying to get rich people in the door to.

[A]

Yeah, but they, they, but they. Yeah, but it's like they don't necessarily need the money from us, even though I did. You know, most of us contributed something. But yeah, they really just, like we all broadcast to our audiences, people who have a big audience, and then they do like an online fundraiser sort of thing. And. Yeah, it's cool.

[B]

What's the most exp. Ever bought at a fundraiser charity auction?

[A]

Oh, that's a great question.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

I don't. I don't go super expensive. I think I paid like eight grand once for a vacation somewhere.

[B]

Mine was a vacation.

[A]

Was it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And it was like five or six grand.

[A]

Yeah, I know. We've auctioned off, like, entrance like a Maui real estate Mastermind before. I think that went for like 30 grand or 20 grand.

[B]

That was cool. The charity auction two years ago, the Better Life REI Summit. Somebody paid $20,000 to spend a day with me.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Well, they also got entrance into. Or they got into deal flow, which Deal flow was like $10,000. So amazing. Her name, I don't know. Her name's Ashley. She's awesome. She's incredible. Her and her husband, they came out to St. Louis. We walked some properties together, and they're crushing it. She's like, since then they've been. They've been crushing it. So $20,000 was so worth it for them.

[C]

Yeah. That's.

[A]

I actually am a big believer in when you go to charity auctions like that. Yeah. Bid on the things that build relationships with people because that's where you're going to, like, you build a relationship with somebody and then they're in your life forever. I mean, the fact that you. The reason we're friends is because you paid to come to our best friend.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like, well, and I remember Tarl was selling like rock climbing with him and Rich Fecky, and I don't remember what it sold for, but, like, getting to go hang out with Pearl and Rich Fecke. Amazing.

[A]

Yeah. In business and life and being able.

[B]

To build that Conn auction, it's so worth it.

[A]

So pleasure doing good at the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm a big believer in. In like, with a charity auction or just anything, it has to be a member. That's why it was a vacation. Yeah. Versus, like, I'm not going to buy a. I don't know, a go kart or like a four wheeler.

[A]

Like there's one.

[B]

Or they were selling a four wheeler. I'm like, I don't care about that.

[A]

I want to experience.

[B]

Yes. I want to experience. One of the best things I ever bought was like, they. What was it? It was a crawfish broil where, like, somebody make crawfish and lay down the newspaper and poured it out.

[A]

So. Yeah. Very cool. Today's episode is brought to you by Ghost and I'm just kidding. No, it's not. But I am drinking this. This is not an ad, by the way. I'm drinking this Ghost Energy Zero sugar Welch's grape juice energy drink. This is the single best energy drink I've ever had. So good.

[B]

Ghost is my favorite. Energy drinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't like, like rain or Celsius. I don't know why. Probably because, I don't know, I love Ghosts. Does it taste. It doesn't taste over chemically. No.

[A]

This Tastes exactly like I'm drinking grape juice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love Wolters grape juice, but it's so sugary that I never drink it. I could have a thing of Walter's grape juice and this and I probably couldn't tell the difference. It is phenomenal.

[B]

Yeah. Ghost Ghost has a pre workout. It is phenomenal too. It's one of my favorite. Yeah, I think it's got a. This has nothing to do with real estate. No, it's got.

[A]

The show has nothing to do with real estate.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. So it's got a lot of. What's it called? Nitric, nitrous oxide in it or you know. Yeah, I think is what it's called. But it makes you tingle. Like, do you. Have you taken a pre workout like that?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That makes you tingle and I don't know what it's doing, but just the tingling feeling makes me feel like it's working. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. I can't tell if it's. Yeah. Is it what they call that a.

[B]

I think it makes your blood vessels open up. I think that's what it truly is. I could be so wrong on that.

[A]

Both of my max is like when I've hit like, like, like really, like had a goal and then hit the max. First it was 200 on bench and then it was 225. Both times I down pre workout and I've pre worked pre go twice in my life.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. It was both times that, like, so, like, was that, was that just like psych? Psychosomatic? Was I just tricking myself into it? I don't know.

[B]

Let's talk about our, our maxes real quick. Maybe because I, I, I'm.

[A]

What's your max, man?

[B]

Is it better?

[A]

That's what I wanted.

[B]

That's what I wanted.

[A]

Have you hit 225 yet?

[B]

I have.

[A]

You a man.

[B]

Yeah. Well, so my squat and deadlift, though.

[A]

I don't want to talk about that.

[B]

Deadlift, Deadlift. It was over 600. I probably could do high fives right now. Squat was over 500. But I mean, I can, I'll, I'll do my in. My last rep will be. Or set will be three reps at 450 right now, so I could probably hit 500.

[A]

What was your max on deadlift?

[B]

My max was 600 over 600. Like 625. But that was back in the day.

[A]

Okay, we're gonna find this out. Oh, voice is now integrated in chat. Follow the conversation.

[B]

I don't know what that means I weigh 170 pounds.

[A]

But I'm gonna ask ChatGPT real quick if it ever loads. Hey, what percentage of men in the world can deadlift over 600 pounds? It's a pretty small percentage.

[B]

Deadlifting over 600 pounds is a pretty elite feat, even among people who train.

[C]

Seriously.

[A]

While there's no exact global statistic, it's.

[C]

Safe to say that probably well under.

[A]

1% of men worldwide could pull. Wow. By the way, that was a super. I mean, okay. It took a minute to load, but as soon as I asked the question, he immediately responded. Let's talk about AI a little bit today and ChatGPT and some of the stuff going on. I also want to talk about the Epstein files a little bit, which we've never talked about on the show. I want to talk about Candace Owens a little bit on the show. Maybe hit a little bit of Charlie Kirk on the show. So I'm just giving you a warning. You may want to just shut this off if you don't care about what's going on in the world today at all. This is a different type of show. Go watch one of our other shows. Normally we talk about real estate investing, we talk about wealth and becoming a millionaire and all that, but there's a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. So Cam and I were like, hey, we haven't got together for a while. Why don't we just chat about what's going on and what we think about it? And last note before we get into the show, and I want to start by talking about ChatGPT and AI a little bit. But last thing is, our friends over at turbo tenant, turbo tenant.com, they released a new feature which is really sick. I actually love it. Speaking of AI, where it allows you to set up the system where a tenant has a problem with a maintenance concern, they bring it up in their portal in the Turbo tenant, and then the AI chat bot chats with them about the problem, can try to help diagnose the problem, try to help solve things. And then if it can't, it gives you a report of all the conversation and kind of what to do next and next steps. It's beautiful. It's awesome. I love it. Because then you're going back and forth 20 times the tenant trying to figure out what actually is going on. It takes care of all that for you. Plus they've got a billion and one other features. I don't know if that's the exact number, but there's so many great things Turbot does check them out turbotenant.com and let them know we sent you. Now, speaking of AI. AI, how often do you use it, man?

[B]

Every day.

[A]

What do you do?

[B]

I use it. I mean we use it a lot in our business for like we have some. What would I call AI agents with like integrations, things like that. Which is amazing. I am not the guy who set that up though.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

Because we have to use make and there's a bunch of different websites that we use.

[C]

But.

[B]

But it's amazing. It has systematized our business where it's like. I mean I get into Podio, which is where our. It's our CRM. But as soon as we create a lead, then there is a Google Drive that's open up that photos are uploaded into all the details about the property. As soon as we click boom. Under contract. Because that's the little clicker at the bottom. Once we hit it under contract, it creates. Does it? Yeah, well, it does. It sends out a Slack notification email because we want to celebrate that as a team every time we get a house under contract. So it sends out celebration message. So everybody on our team knows like hey Scotty, got 1, 2, 3, 4 Sycamore under contract. And everybody's like oh, great job Scotty. So that's fun. It's helped our like right now, like we don't. We don't have to. Well, we still underwrite deals in terms of comps, but a lot of things that we used to do, AI does it better and quicker than us. So for instance, we can put in beds, bath Square footage, upload pictures and it spits us out a rehab budget based upon the pictures that are uploaded and we have tested and tested again and it is so accurate. So if I were to manually, manually go through and I still check it because I don't trust it completely, but it makes it 10 times faster in. In St. Louis it's hard because it's nondisclosure state for us to use AI to pull comp. So I still have to. Because you can only do it through the MLS is. I mean that's. It's annoying that that's allowed that they have a. MLS has essentially mon monopoly on. On true comps. But we. We can't use it to pull comps. We still have to manually do a lot of underwriting of our deals. But AI, we've used it in our business so much with things like that. The other thing though that I have I. I use AI for and I tell our Our team all the time is like, it's in anything that you want to talk to it any time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like a great example of this is yesterday I was trying to clean up our books. It's towards the end of the year. Have you used Atlas yet? No browser. So it's amazing because it can look at your screen. So I had QuickBooks. I, I've heard that there is some security issues with it, so this might not be smart, but I had my bank accounts open and I was just working alongside of it literally was like, hey, you're the world's best cfo. Like just talk me through things that you're seeing and help. And it was phenomenal. I mean it took what I would have to call our actual fractional CFO and ask them questions about it and then they'd have to get back with me or we'd have to hop on a zoom call. Like I was able to do that just with Atlas opened up because Atlas can like look at your, your screen or read the code behind your screen and know what's going on. And it was, it was just phenomenal. And we, we use that for like the other day I was doing, we're sending out a direct mail campaign and I had it opened up and I was like, we're just creating over and over again new MA mailers and what would work. And like I've got the PhD level marketing CMO there that's giving me feedback and hey, word it this way or do these colors or do this. Like that is so, so phenomenal. Like with our home buying specialists where it's like it's a PhD level salesperson that like, hey, I tell them like if you're texting somebody and you don't know what to say, just go upload the conversation into chat GPT and explain what is happening and it'll tell you what to say better than you could ever say it. Like, it's phenomenal. We'll use it for our, when we have leads come in, we'll, we'll transcribe like on the phone for our lead manager. We'll transcribe those, we'll upload it and we'll say, hey, give us five things we did well and five things we could have done better. And it spits out like just amazing content on hey, you could have not talked about this so much when they said this. That was a door. Like for instance, there's one just yesterday actually was three days ago that we had where the person called and one of his Biggest things was like, I just don't. I don't want to take care of the house. He was an older gentleman. He's like, I don't want to take care of the house over the winter. And the lead manager that took that call kind of just continued didn't really, like, dive into that because that was a pain point for him. It's like, I don't want to take care of my house anymore. And instead of diving into that, just kind of moved on to like the next question that we have in, like our flow and chat. GPT after uploading that was like, this was where you need to stop and you needed to really ask questions about that because that was the pain point around. The reason he was calling was he's an older gentleman.

[A]

The.

[B]

The house is too much work and he wants out. If we would have just doven into that and we still set up an appointment, so we might still buy the house. But like, that was it right there where it's like, if we can solve that problem for him of, hey, you know what, we can close on your house in two weeks before it gets super cold. We'll hire you a moving company to move to wherever you want to. Like, that is what would have bought us the house. And so it's just. I'm talking a lot, but I think AI is amazing and we use it all the time in our business.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder almost all of that stuff that we do as real estate. I want to go negative for a minute here, and then we'll go back to positive. Almost everything we do in real estate like that AI is going to be able to do for us pretty soon. My fear is that blackrock, Blackstone, you know, whatever the big things end up. Because right now, it doesn't make any sense for them to go into our space, even my space. You know, it doesn't really make sense to go into a $50 million apartment complex or 200,000 doll until AI can do it and then they can buy at scale. So I'm a little bit worried about them using AI because they're gonna be way better than we are. And they've got teams of smart people figuring out, have you seen that happen yet?

[B]

We have not seen that happen. I'm worried about it because, like with texting, which is illegal. Ish. But there has been some laws, some new laws that have came into place. And there was a huge lawsuit that the text. The person was texting one that is supposed to set new president for being able to send out mass Texting. But like I'm worried that with AI because they're going to be able to do it better than any anybody or anything and it's going to be personalized versus like a mass texting campaign that's not as personalized. And, and like you said, those bigger companies are going to be able to have a better code around that to work with people. Same thing with cold calling. Like AI it's getting better and better. I just, I just tested one the other day and it's close, man. It's still not there yet where it's like you can tell that you're talking to as AI so I've thought that.

[A]

Up until 5, 10 minutes ago where this ChatGPT responded the exact second I stopped talking.

[B]

Dude, it was close, man.

[A]

That was the best I've heard.

[B]

It's so close to where they will be able to do cold calling and they've got all of the data in the world of here's how we respond, here's what we dive into. So I'm worried about that. The one thing that I would say in our business, and this is when we started in 2020, I wasn't even thinking about this, but I'm happy with it and is I've always positioned our business is the local home buying company. And we have never bought a house without going and walking the house, meeting the wholesaler, the agent, the homeowner there and having a conversation with them. We're not. I think what is going to hurt is that honestly the unethical people, I sorry, if you're listening to this and this is what you do, but the people that are buying all over the nation sending out mass offers, doing mass cold calling, they never go to the house, they're locking it up, they're shopping it. Because all of that I think AI can do. What AI is not going to be able to do is go walk a house, shake a hand, look into somebody's eyes, which is what our business does. We still have to somehow get a hold of them through direct mail, texting, cold calling, whatever it may be, and set up the lead, which AI I think can replace, but it's never going to replace walking into a house and sitting down at the kitchen table with somebody. And so I feel protected in that. But in terms of like actually finding the lead, AI is going to replace all that. And what sucks is like the companies with the most money are going to be able to build the system and do it better than, than we are.

[A]

Yeah, but I think they're probably they're going to start with the expensive stuff and they're going to work their way down, but, like, it'll happen. So I think I've said this before, is I think we've got five or ten good years left of real estate. The way that we went today, I'm not saying real estate will go away, but the way that it's done today, like, it's like, get in now. This is, like, it gives you encouragement to people that are listening to this that haven't yet jumped in to buy a deal. Like, that's fine, but just know that this is not gonna be the same game in 10 years. Like, the. It's gonna get so advanced and complicated that it's gonna be hard to make money. And so if you want financial freedom, jump in right now. Go listen to the last couple episodes we did on this podcast. Cam and I did a whole show on what it takes to buy your first deal and what it takes to get financial freedom. Those are two, like, probably my favorite episodes we've done, I guess. And I really like the real estate sucks when we did. Yeah, yeah. Like, the last three episodes have been my favorite we've done the last couple years. And I really like that concept of, like, get in now while. While you can. It's funny, though. You're talking all about, like, all the fun AI stuff, like the work AI stuff that you do. 90 of what? 95 of what I do with. With AI is like, pictures, movies, and music. Like, oh, have you played? I've showed you the music stuff that I've. Oh, dude.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's so absurd and, like, I don't know yet how to feel about, like, as a musician. Like, I'm a musician. I write songs, I play with music, and then I hear what SUNO can do, and Suno's one of them.

[B]

It's probably the number one Christian album right now on itunes. I saw this is AI.

[A]

Yeah. It's insane. Check this out, everyone. I mean, I'm sure you guys have heard it before, but, like, this was. I have a First Deal song for the actual program. First Deal. I play it every time on our calls every week for First Deal. And it's just so, like, annoyingly good. Like, I don't know if I pick up the mic.

[B]

Listen to this. The ceiling.

[A]

Of Escape from this tiny compartment. I like the.

[B]

The kind of punk rock vibe.

[A]

Wait for the chorus. So good. In your heart. Yeah, it's so good. I probably made a thousand songs over the past six months. Yeah, that's not even kidding like a thousand because it takes like 30 seconds. It's all just like at the gym in between sets. Be like, how about a song about doing deadlifts and how much you hate it but you need to do it anyway. And it's like boom words, lyrics, whatever. Here's why I find the most value though in the music thing. But this also applies to the, the, the way like, you know, Google's VO3 can do video content, which is absurd, really good. Or the way that like pictures can be worked like grok pictures or unreal.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

It's amazing. Each one's got their own little benefit, but it never works out of the box by itself. Well, it's like you work with an artist to create good stuff. So for example, the best songs that have written there, I probably got 10 songs that I'm actually like, these are legit. I could record these and put these out as music. They weren't just me throwing into Suno and say, make me a song. It was like I had an idea, I workshopped it back and forth. I threw the chatgpt like to kind of write the lyrics. Then I changed a bunch of lyrics. I changed stuff. I worked on it for a couple hours, went back to Suno, uploaded the new one and now I've got a song.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But I did that in two hours versus what used to take two months and now you can upload your own voice to it. You can change words throughout it. Like it's just, it's absurd.

[B]

I think for anything right now. AI related it is all about the inputs that you get. Yeah.

[A]

Like the collaboration.

[B]

Exactly. And the machine where even, even for like going back to real estate and in our business, I can tell chat GPT like, hey, give me an overview of this call that you know, the seller lead that we had and the lead manager took the call. Give me an overview of it and it will and it'll do a good job. But if I set the stage of like, hey, we're a single family house buying company in St. Louis, Missouri. Here's our primary target audience. Here's how we buy house. Here's how I've, I've coached our lead manager to take the calls. Here's the company that we want to be and portray now give me a breakdown of this call. It's going to look so much different than just saying give me a breakdown of this call. And then once we read that, well, okay, what are your thoughts on this? Or we want to get Better here. Like, it's all about the way that you have conversation. And one of the things that we've done in our business and actually this came from the guy at the 50 who is like, we've set up a. A Slack channel where it's like, I just want. Because I want everybody in our company to be using AI because I just think it's so valuable and it's like, I just want to see. Like, I want every day I want people to throw in AI wins. Like, what's a cool. Like a cool question? What's a cool prompt that you ask? How did AI help you today? Because I, I think there it's. It's wild to me how many people still don't use AI like, even in deal flow. We'll talk of like, I'll show them something cool that I. I did on Chad GPT and people are like, I didn't know chat GP could do that. I didn't know. I'm like, it. There's still so many people that they use it as Google. Like, they're. Yeah. Instead of like, you can use it to help grow and scale your business. I've. I'm. One of the things that I've done which is so helpful is I created a board of directors that, that I bounce ideas off of. And I gave every. Like, I. And I spent. I probably spent three hours creating this. Maybe more over time more because I've, I've dialed it in. But like every single person on the board and I gave them a personal. And here's the way that I want you to talk to me. And you're the, the person that wants to scale. You're the analytical one that is fearful. You're this person. You're. So I've created this board where like, I can have a conversation with them and I have somebody that's wanting me to scale and grow. I have the analytical person that's like, hey, we. We should be really weary of that. Like, I have the cmo. Like, I've got it all in there and it. Dude, I can sit there for four hours and just have conversations about my business. And like, I used to pay business coaches tens of thousands of dollars to get what I get in four hours. Now sitting with Chat GPT.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it is all about the questions that you ask.

[A]

Yeah. We should bring. Oh, you're a guy. You're mentioning Joe Stolti. He's an AI expert. One of the smartest AI guys I know. Yeah. He came to the recent event we did at the 50. We did the final 50 events. So for those who don't know, I had a group called the 50. We met for the last two years every quarter in person. It was a high ticket, really expensive, all millionaires, all dudes. And we just traveled around and ate the most delicious amaz restaurants in the world and drank a lot of wine and other stuff and it was, it was a great time. You don't, you don't drink at all. It was a great couple years. Anyway, I just shut it down. We will build a new version of it in the new year in 2026 that'll be a little bit, a little bit different, but a little bit newer version of it. The quarterly travel just got along.

[B]

Like I just.

[A]

Every quarter having to travel and even the coolest experiences, like we just did helicopter into the Grand Canyon for our final event. It's like, it's sick. But when you do those things every three months, after a while you're like, I'm just tired of traveling.

[B]

Yeah, I had a panic attack on the helicop. Yeah, you love that for me. All right. Oh gosh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Helicopters, they're just not natural. They're not natural?

[A]

No. People die in them a lot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like every couple years there's a new helicopter in Hawaii that goes down.

[B]

And planes don't scare me because I'm like, if, if things like fall apart, you can still glide.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a helicopter is the most unnatural thing in the world to me. What's like if something goes out, you're just dropping.

[A]

Are you freaked out about the, the, the drone vehicles? Like we're all going to be in flying drones at some point. Like they're coming. Like is that freaking you out or.

[B]

I'm not freaked out about drone. Oh well, flying drones when we like.

[A]

Cuz they happen now, like they're just drones. They're just big, the size of a car and you just take off and go.

[B]

I'm not freaked out at all about self driving cars. I think that's the coolest. I do too. I think, I think that that's, that's safer than anybody driving. And, and I know like planes are safer than driving. Helicopters though. Are not. And, and there's.

[A]

I wonder if they are. I wonder if they are though. I don't know.

[B]

Actually, that's thousands of helicopter tours in Maui.

[A]

I'm gonna ask Chatgpt here. Hey, so I'm trying to figure out what is safer, helicopters or normal cars. Yeah. That is interesting. And onto your next question.

[C]

When it Comes to safety, it's a.

[A]

Bit of a mixed bag because it depends on how you measure it.

[B]

If you look at it purely in terms of total numbers, cars have more accidents because there are just so many more cars on the road and way.

[A]

More car trips taken.

[C]

But if you look at it per.

[A]

Mile traveled, helicopters have a higher accident.

[C]

Rate because they're usually more complex and riskier flying conditions. Overall, cars are generally considered safer in.

[A]

The sense that for each trip you.

[C]

Take, it's statistically less likely you'll have a serious accident.

[A]

But yeah, typical chatgpt is like, it could be a little above. Unless you're all the most nuanced.

[B]

You gotta prompt it back.

[C]

I know.

[A]

That was a bad prompt, apparently.

[B]

Well, another thing is, is like if you're 2, 000ft in the air flying into the Grand Canyon and the helicopter stops working, like, you're probably dead.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

And a car. I've been in way too many car accidents in my life. And you might be alive. What?

[A]

You might still be alive. I've lived.

[B]

I've been in three flipped cars. And yeah, man, I only hit one.

[A]

Deer in my life. I got one accident.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I'd fender bendered somebody, actually. I was picking up my wife's engagement ring, like, when I was going to propose. It was raining and I just got it. I left the place and like, I just signed on my brakes in the rain and just slid and just poop.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Somebody I pushed a little like, screw through their fender.

[B]

But yeah, honestly, all the flipped cars, I was completely fine. Walked away from. Wow. The only time that I ever was hurt in a car accident, we got rear ended by a drunk driver.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

But even then, it was like a little bit of whiplash. I had a headache for like three days, but. But completely fine.

[A]

You're also a beast of a man. You probably would survive a helicopter crash.

[B]

No. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

That.

[B]

I was so scared. That's fine. AI, AI.

[A]

Well, speaking of scared, what the heck is going on with Epstein stuff? This, by the way, we're recording this episode because this thing changes daily. Today we're recording on Wednesday, November 26, 2025. They just released as of like, what today? Yesterday, the. Or whatever, the Epstein files, Whatever they've got. Not all everything, but they've released a ton of stuff because the. Both the House and the Senate approved almost anonymously, except for one guy to release it all. What's going on with this right now?

[B]

Okay, so let's preface it with this. I'm A real estate investor. I have five kids.

[A]

Okay. Please don't kill us.

[B]

Yes, I, I. What I know is, is. Is minimal.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

But what I have seen, I mean, I think Epstein was working for some government organization. I think I know which one. Not.

[A]

Does it rhyme with schmizreal?

[B]

No, I, I can't say which one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know. But I. And I think the thing that a lot of people have gotten wrong is that the left, you know, he's got all the dirt on the left, or. Oh, we've got all the dirt on the right.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Dude, it. It's cross party. Like, we're dealing with something so much sinister than left and right. I think that's what this sounds. So conspiracy conspirator. Like, we're dealing with something so much larger and bigger, and they want the left and the right to be fighting and that. Like, they're creating.

[A]

You just were. You just did the big T. What, what you said.

[C]

They.

[A]

Yes, there's.

[B]

There is some higher.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

There is some higher entity out there. And it. And it. What's the thing? Have you ever heard. It's Paul Harvey's. I think it's actually about the devil, but he's like, what I would do if I wanted to control the world. And he talks about, I would create all of these moral and ethical issues. And you put them on one side and the other and make people fight and all of this division within the world. And so we think that we're fighting against our neighbor or the left and the right. And it's so much. To me, it's so much more sinister than that. And I do think that Epstein played a huge, huge part. Play it still is playing a huge part. Even though he may or may not be dead. We're still missing a minute of, of the recordings of when his body was removed. But Epstein plays such a huge part in that. I think there's so much blackmail. We were talking about this the other day. We have a buddy who is really great friends with one of the most prominent political figures in the world. And he asked him, like, how, like, how dark is it? And the guy's response was, it is far darker than you could ever imagine. And I don't know, it's a scary place to be in. Here's what I would say is, for me, at least, here's what I've decided is I do want to stay informed. I want to stay on top of it. I also want to be very choosy of where I'm getting My news from. Because I think that everybody is controlled in some way, shape or form by media and who is running that media organization. That being said, there's not much that I can do about it. I know that sounds really dark. The thing that I can do about it is I can choose to be a good person every single day and I can love my wife and I can love my kids. The most important thing in this world, I think for everybody that's listening to this is being a good husband and being a good father, being a good mother and raising great human beings. And to me, like, it's a very small part, but that's what I've decided is like, that's the part that I can play in this us because me sitting here saying like it's this organization or it's this organization which if you follow all of the ties, it ties back to one organization.

[C]

I should not.

[A]

Does it rhymeless.

[B]

I'm not saying who, I'm not saying what. I'm not.

[C]

I.

[B]

There's just something far sinister going on and there's nothing we can do about it. That sounds dark and people are going to be listening to this and get mad. But like the thing that I can do, the, the change that I can make in the. Is being a great husband and a great dad and raising great human beings that hopefully someday will have their own human beings to raise and leaving a legacy that way.

[A]

Do we land on the moon?

[B]

So actually I, I would say that we did. I. Now there's.

[A]

So there's some good argument against it.

[B]

But there's the, the reason that I would say that we did is because we, we have like rocks from the moon that have been studied inside and out that are definitely not from the world. NASA had I think over 6,000 people within the organization when we landed on the moon. And like, keeping that a secret for so long I do think is impossible. Now I might say that we landed on the moon, but the, some of the footage that we have was filmed in a warehouse somewhere in, I think LA is where they say the warehouse was. But I do think we landed on the moon. Now I also think that there's a lot of other really wild things out there that are true.

[A]

Conspiracy theory. What conspiracy theory do you believe in the most? That most people wouldn't believe necessarily. What's your wildest.

[B]

Well, I mean this one's not wild, but just the food pyramid. The food pyramid. What we were taught is kids about the food pyramid and the companies that were paying and lobbying to get that Taught it's completely wrong. The food pyramid should be inverse it.

[A]

Except for the sugar.

[B]

Except for the sugar part. Yeah. But even sugar, like I mean there's so much sugar and bread and carbs and like, and that's the bottom of the, the food pyramid. So like the food pyramid I would say is one. But I think everybody believes that now like what we were taught about food is completely wrong.

[A]

Yeah. This is where maybe this is interesting. I, I'm, I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of a guy in, in the same way that like I don't, I don't believe in the big T. They like I don't think that there is a Rothschild cabal led by a few billionaires that are controlling everything like puppets. I think it's incentive. Everything is incentive based and financial based in a capitalism sort of capitalist society. So what I mean by that is like the food pyramid, was there some guy going I'm going to divine a food pyramid or is it simply there's a lot of money from a lot of organizations and there is an incentive to drive it towards them from large corporations that have large boards and shareholders and it just, all the interest is designed to end up in a result of thousands of choices over dozens of years that result in a food pyramid. That's incorrect. The same thing would say with Big Pharma. There's not three guys out there going let's get them.

[B]

Yeah, addicted to drugs vaccine. Which I don't really want to get into that but let's get into that. I, I don't like, I don't think that Pfizer was like oh I'm infecting people, I'm going to give them heart attacks or some exact fake DNA. DNA. Like I think that they, they truly did think like hey this is, is protecting people against Covid.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

And, and so I don't think there was a big conspiracy around that. But I also do think that they had their hands in a lot of government pockets for sure saying Covid is worse than it was, that some alternate medicines don't work against Covid, that that potentially did. I think I, I would, I would say that that's where it is. And I wasn't even an anti vaxxer. Looking back now I, I probably, I don't know, I don't want to get into that. But at the time I was like I think that this is probably good for the world. But some of the data now that I look back on with the variants and things that were going on where people were dying and the amount of people that were dying, I'm not, I just don't know what to believe. I guess that's the hard part. That's the hard part with all this is you have to turn through all of this crap because there's no doubt that people that weren't vaxxed were dying at a higher rate than people that were vaxxed. And uh, again, we should.

[A]

Fred kill by Pfizer.

[B]

I'm talking too much. No, I, I, again I don't think Pfizer had this like master plan of like agree I want to control everybody's brains or like some of the far out theories. I just think that it was pushed to the market too fast without enough data behind it to back it. And I, I, I don't know if it protected as much as people thought it.

[A]

Agreed. But again, I think that this, it's, it's not a person, it's not a nefarious agenda necessarily. It's decisions based on money, based on jobs and careers that you have to grow. So for example, here we could get some news as a land, as a house flipper. Yeah, let's just talk about like the idea of text messaging. Right? You mentioned that earlier, the legality of text messaging. Now you can like, you like most, most real estate investors that do texting, they can try to skirt that law. They can try to find the gray areas. They can say, well it's a dumb law anyway, but it helps my business. I'm not supporting that at all. I don't do mass texting but a lot of people do. And they try to skirt that law because it's good for their business and their whatever. So there isn't some guy going, I'm going to deceive American populace into getting, you know, text messages. It's just, it just feet puts food on the table for a lot of people. And so they will skirt laws or they'll look at data that, you know, whatever, they'll justify things different ways. And when you again have millions of people being incentivized, certain ways, certain things happen over time and that's where most conspiracies end up and most bad politics and policies like big pharma or you know, Big landlord. Yeah, that's where they end up.

[B]

Well and like there is an element to maliciousness in, in all of it. This maybe is just me being too optimistic. I choose to believe that even maliciousness and some of the dark sinister things people believe what they're doing is right. Does that make sense at all where it's like the same with the food triangle where it's like, I don't think that food triangle or food. It is a triangle. It is a, it is a tri.

[A]

Really more of a triangle than a pyramid. Anyway, Keep going.

[B]

But I don't think that it was like, oh, we know that this kills people and we're just going to tell people to eat this instead of this.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

I don't think that.

[A]

And to the starving world, the food period might actually be right. Like we need to get people bread if they're starving Americans. Yeah. And Americans eat too much bread. Yeah. So maybe that made more sense in the 50s or whenever the food pyramid was invented. I don't know. It probably wasn't that early. Or maybe they just General Mills really wanted people to eat cereal. Breakfast, big breakfast cereal is a. I don't know.

[B]

But it's also tough. Like I've, I've heard conspiracy theories of like, we've found the cure for cancer and for this years ago, but because the big pharma industry is a multi trillion dollar industry and people being sick and people being.

[A]

See, I don't buy that at all.

[B]

I don't know if I, I don't know if I buy it. I do think that big pharma and I think healthcare is so effed up.

[A]

But here's what, here's the thing. If somebody discovered if, if big pharma, somebody in one organization, they finally cured cancer, that is not a one person thing. That's not a two, that's a hundreds of scientists that have dedicated their life to a purpose because they had some relative die of can, you know, whatever, and now they're in it. And you're going to say all those people that all know that there's a cure, they all get together and go, okay, here's the thing, guys, we're not going to announce it to the world. We're going to keep it silent and. Or we're going to kill off every single one of you. Hundreds and hundreds of people all going to die suddenly. And we're going to keep that silent because we want to make our shareholders just the American public shareholders, just normal people with 401ks. We're going to make them richer and that's why we're going to kill off like that. Just so absurd to me.

[B]

Like, but what if, what if the cure is fasting for 30 days? Like, what if that was, I mean there's a lot of. If that was the cure, then there's no money to be Made off of that.

[A]

No. I know.

[B]

What if that would.

[A]

But social media. Not even just. Are there anecdotal things about fasting being good for us? Yes. Is it a cure? No. If it was a cure meaning like.

[B]

If you do this, you will be fasting for. I'm just throwing some.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Arbitrary thing out there. What if the cure. Maybe not cure. Yeah but like what if it improves your. Is like hey, we're. You're. You're going to be on the keto diet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For. Because I've heard the wonders about it. I can't do it because I love bread too much because it was raised on the freaking food pyramid.

[A]

Big agriculture. Exactly.

[B]

But, but like I've hear wonders about the. The keto diet and different. Different like things that it cures and so what if it. Maybe not. Maybe not the cure but like this solves so many problems down the road. But they don't want us to know that because down the road. And I'm sounding like such a crazy huge conspiracy theorist. But they don't want us to know that because it's free. It's not free, but it's. It's cheaper. And I mean you can tie everything back together though. Like it is wild to me that the most unhealthy things for us.

[A]

Us.

[B]

Are also the worst things for us. And the fact that it is so much cheaper to go to McDonald's than it is to go get healthy food. Like when you look at the way the system is set up, it is set up to make us sick and fat.

[A]

Yeah. But. But that's why I would argue there is no they that did that. It's simply economics. It is cheaper to make crappier food than it is to make organic food. Everything from the seeds that you put in the ground to the people you have to pick it. It's easier to spray pesticide over a hundred acre area than it is to. To hand pick bugs off of stuff. You know what I mean? Like it's just. It's not a person wanting to.

[B]

There's somebody up there. I see. I kind of disagree with that because like even let's take. Let's. Let's walk away from food. But like let's talk about the crack epidemic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what that did to African American families and the way that it split up families and redlining and like there was a they that literally were ruining and creating so much divide in our nation. At one point you think there was.

[A]

A person who was. Went, I'm going to introduce crack into These communities.

[B]

The fact that if you got caught with a crack pipe, you went to jail for 30 years, and if you got caught with cocaine, you went to jail for three months. Like there was some sort of.

[A]

I'm not saying there's bad decisions in there. I'm just saying I don't believe there was a they that goes, let's make.

[B]

Oh, see, I do think it was more. I think it was more. I think it was creating racial divide in our country. And it's worked.

[A]

I think that it's the result of thousands of people, drug dealers, finding the best opportunity where they need to. Again, it's the same thing. It's when you have mass amounts of people and mass amounts of data and mass amounts of time, things move in directions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of thousands and millions of choices that end up at a result of Americans being fat. Now, why are Americans fat? There's millions of choices and decisions between thousands of companies over a course of hundreds of years that have led to 70 of Americans being obese. There was not a person in 1992 going, let's make 80% of people fat so that we can make a drug for it in 2025 that's gonna make everyone skinny. Yeah, but that's where I argue.

[B]

It's just so, like, 9, 11. Obviously there was some sort of something with the government that wanted our hands in the Middle east and oil. Like, there was a they that allowed it to happen, planned it to happen. I don't know.

[C]

Like.

[B]

So again, yeah, like, there's.

[A]

I think there's a bigger they.

[B]

I think there's a bigger they out there.

[A]

Like, there is somebody out there who said, I'm gonna go take down the trades or I'm gonna go hurt America like Osama bin Laden. Now, did other agencies know about that was going to happen and allowed it to happen? That's possible because that could go into one or two people. So I guess that's different. When I'm thinking conspiracy theory of. Is it possible that one or two people could control or dictate an event? Yes. Is it possible for one or two people to control the outcome of millions of people? No. Like, maybe the outcome's the wrong word. Is it possible for one person to say, we're gonna make Americans fat? No, that's just decisions of millions of people over lots of time based on incentives.

[B]

Well, I could talk about this for a long time.

[A]

You're so far off.

[B]

And I also. I gotta look at the camera and I gotta say this. Everything that I'm talking About, I know like this much about. And then also if you hate me right now, please forgive me.

[A]

I think more people think like you than think like me. It's easier to just believe there's a bad guy out there because it takes the ownership off of ourselves. And so it's just easier to say no.

[B]

But, but like I. So I think, I think it's versus it's human nature. It's a long like it is something that has been done over a period of decades. There's a master plan. And so it's not a.

[A]

So some group got together and they wrote up a master plan and said we're going to make for example Americans sick.

[B]

We're going to make them sell them, we're going to make them fat, we're going to make them hate each other.

[A]

Instead of the more vision, a more normal answer of Americans are just rich and indulgent. And so we all got fat. And now the pharma companies are going how do we, we make money off of this problem and solve this problem and make and get rich off of it? You don't think it's that way.

[B]

There's personal responsibility for sure. And I think that they, that they, I keep saying they, whoever they is, I don't know who they is, but I do think that that's a part of it is that people want to be victims. And there is creating a culture of victims. You are going to create more division, more mass hysteria, more people playing the blame game name. And so I don't disagree. What you're saying is there's personal responsibility for every single person. We're really bad at that as human beings. Like for tens of thousands of years, like we, we have always played the victim and wanted to play the victim card over and over and over again. When you look at different cultures and different societies and so that that is just a part of human nature. But when you can get people to believe that you're not the problem, you're just a victim, then it creates more and more division within our country. And so even like going back to the food pyramid, somebody that is overweight, that has diabetes, at the end of the day, it's their fault. Like it is their fault. Get up, walk 10,000 steps a day, eat healthy food. I do think that they were misled over a course of a long period of time of this is the way that you are supposed to be healthy. I think that, that the just the way that our society has been set up, it leads to that. But at the end of the day there is personal responsibility. True. I still think that there can be a they that has planned that.

[A]

Here's an example I'll throw out there. Is it healthier to eat grass fed organic pasture raised beef? Is that healthier than raising cattle? That was 10,000 cows inside of its building that were all locked into place and couldn't move. Like which one's probably healthier for you?

[B]

Grass fed.

[A]

Okay, so is that big agriculture out there going we're gonna make people eat crappier beef, or is it simply the fact that it's a lot more money to do a pasture raised beef that you care for and pet every day than it is other? So then when you have the two products, you can go to Walmart right now and buy either product. You can buy grass fed organic filet mignon and it's $30 for a steak at Walmart And Walmart's gonna make the cheapest they can possibly make it. I mean they fight prices down. You're gonna pay 30 bucks for a package of that or you can pay $8 for it. What is the American population going to do? The vast majority are going to go with the $8, the $8 $1. And then that then makes the cow farmers more like there's a thousand times more demand for that. And there, I mean a thousand, but there's a lot more demand for that. So then, then they can get it even cheaper because economies of scale and it makes it even cheaper. So it's like this society is like this self replicating. That's the wrong word, like reinforcing mechanism to drive down the cost of bad food, which there was no person going, let's make cheap food bad so people get sick. It was just a person. It was just. Society rewards cheap crap food.

[B]

Society does reward it. But you, this society, especially America could do a better job of that. Where when you look at the ingredients on Doritos within the United States versus Canada or versus Europe, it's 10 times longer. And you, you're getting all these chemicals. And I'm saying this, I weigh 270 pounds and I eat Doritos and I eat ice cream. Like I literally went to Cold Stone last night after dinner.

[A]

We do a lot.

[B]

And so I'm saying these things and I partake in them. It's not like I'm some health nut or anything like that. I just do think that it's more sinister and can I. I have to get this in. Before we move on from this conversation.

[A]

We'Re gonna talk about finish Epstein and move on to Candace.

[B]

Oh, we're John Epstein. Well, conspiracy theory.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Can I bring up one major conspiracy theory?

[A]

Okay, Zins.

[B]

Oh, this. Nicotine is God's gift to human beings. People are gonna hate me for.

[A]

You want your parents knowing about this?

[B]

Oh, they, they. Yeah, they know about it. Nicotine has been giving a. Because it was always in the form of some sort of tobacco, which is terrible for you, and smoking is terrible for you.

[A]

This is a perfect question. Then ask me. Is big government. Did they sit in a room, three guys in a room went back in the 50s and went, you know what? We hate the nicotine department. We hate those guys over there. So let's screw them over by putting it with tobacco and making people have cancer. Cancer. Or is it just society? Nicotine got mixed with tobacco, therefore the cancer became a thing. And therefore that's why it's not popular and that's why only weird people like you. So I think even though there's a.

[B]

Lot of factors in play here, but this is a perfect, perfect.

[A]

Is there a big T they that shut down nicotine?

[B]

Yes, there is, and I will tell you why. Okay, one, I think that there is tobacco. They spend a lot of money to shut. Because I think if people knew that, hey, I can get the benefits of. Of smoking a cigarette, which I've smoked my fair share of cigarettes in the past. Like it. It's.

[A]

You have? You sinner.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

I did not know. I'm sitting with just it.

[B]

Oh, dude. I was working at Aldi in 1920 years. Well, I was a pack a day guy working Aldi. Man. I did not know that part of that was. Was because all the people there smoked and they would get a 10 minute break every hour. I got a 15 minute break every eight hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I was like, like, wait, this isn't fair.

[A]

I smoke. I can.

[B]

If I. If I start smoking, I can go out for a smoke break every 45 minutes. Where. When I wasn't. So I. I literally started smoking so just so I could get smoke breaks, man. And I. When I was 20, I quit because I realized how. How bad it was for me. It was. It was probably a year of my life that I smoked a lot, but then I didn't touch anything. And then I started zinning. But so I think tobacco zinning.

[A]

Is that a phrase?

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of clever. Yeah, exactly. I started zinning. So where was I going with that? Oh, a couple things I was gonna say with that tobacco. I think Spent a lot of money too. But I also, this is getting conspiracy theorist ish.

[A]

We have, you know.

[B]

Yeah, so, so nicotine, the studies around nicotine and brain health, they are undeniable. That it protects against Alzheimer's, it protects against dementia, it protects against Parkinson's, that it makes your brain healthier, that it can take the place of some ADHD medicines because it locks you in. So there, there are undeniable benefits of nicotine. A lot of people listening to this don't know.

[A]

Yeah, people listening right now, this might be the first time hearing this. They're like, wait, what is wrong with Cam? It causes cancer.

[B]

Look it up, Start doing it.

[A]

Does not explain that because you and I both know about this now that again, tobacco and nicotine are different things.

[B]

Nicotine has zero cancer causing agents, agents whatsoever in it.

[A]

And that might blow people's minds.

[B]

Yes. It does not cause cancer at all. People are like, well, the pouches are going to cause cancer. There's no data on that. It might cause gum recession if you do it enough, but it's not going to cause cancer in your mouth. There is literally no, like, all cause morbidity significantly goes down if you are on nicotine. What I will say with nicotine is it, it releases dopamine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so then you do if you become addicted to, to it, but it, so does sugar, so does coffee. Like it, it's like really any other thing that we have in our life, like, dopamine comes from everywhere. I think that the release of dopamine is pretty high. But same with coffee. Same with sitting down, eating a bowl of ice cream. And so that would be the one thing that I would tell people like that that's the downside is it's addicting because you have a Zen in and your dopamine goes up and then you don't have one in and it's lower and you're like, oh, I want that dopamine high again. But also when you do it, you're focused on, it protects your brain. You're more dialed in. Man, oh man. People are gonna hate me after this podcast. So it's fun.

[A]

I, I, I've done it one time in my life because I was sitting here in this exact chair with you just like this, and you gave me one. No, because I got, I got so sick that like after like 15 minutes of, of I gave you a 6.

[B]

Milligram one and you hadn't eaten.

[A]

I had not eaten. Start with three. I felt so disgusting. Like for hours and hours and hours it was awful. I'll never do that again.

[B]

Like, okay, so you're going to get dementia and I'm not, I'm not. That's, I mean that's, that's, that's a part of it. It's a decision that you're making. But, but I would say that there is like, even if you listen to some of the longevity doctors out there, like Huberman Sinclair was. Adia. Adia, however you say. Peter, Pete, Atiya Atia, like they all talk about the benefits of nicotine.

[A]

They take big because they're all paid by nicotine.

[B]

Well, so that's that. You could go down that route too where it's like, is nicotine paying these guys to say this? We don't know anything at the end of the day.

[A]

Yeah, but as a conspiracy theory theorist we must just assume it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're assuming that Big Nick is paying all these scientists right now to give us all cancer so that they can produce a cancer fighting drug 10 years from now. That's what's happening.

[B]

That completely like, that would not be outside of the realm of possibility where, where it's like, hey, we're, we're slowly leaking all of these studies about how good nicotine really is for you and they're not true at all. And we're going to get all of the 30 to 40 year old men addicted to nicotine and then it's going to cause all these problems later on in life. Dude, that's not outside of the realm of possibility. I'm going to believe that that's not true because I love nicotine. Nicotine. But what do you love about it?

[A]

I don't understand. Wow. I just mean like, okay, I understand the benefits, quote unquote of like, yeah, your brain's better and it helps against Alzheimer's long term. I get that. What in the moment, like, is that like caffeine does it.

[B]

It's very similar to caffeine where it's probably a more like direct feeling of it, of right away. But you're focused. I would say the focus is the biggest part. Like all of a sudden I'm, I'm focused. Like I can, I can throw in a Zen and sit down and for like an hour and a half just be like focused on like I've got some ADHD tendencies and when I have a nicotine in, I'm just like boom. It almost feels like I've thrown in an Adderall, which I've never been on Adderall. Unfortunately I did take some when I was in high school and college for tests or something. But it kind of, it gives me that feeling where it's like boom.

[A]

Okay, I believe you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Candace Owens. What the heck is going on with Candace Owens right now? Is she, she's either insane. For those who don't know, Candace Owens is a more right leaning pundit that was friends with Charlie Kirk and now is just going deeper and deeper and deeper into conspiracy world but has a lot of receipts to back up stuff. And her newest claim is that, that she is being targeted and there's an assassination plot. That the president of France has hired an assassination team to assassinate Candace Owens. So she went public with it. So it doesn't happen because that would be, that's actually a pretty smart move. And also that Israel killed Charlie Kirk, I think is what her new thing is.

[B]

She's been saying that for a while.

[A]

She, for a while. Does she have some validity? Is she just nuts? What's going on with her?

[B]

I don't know. I think she's a little nuts.

[A]

I think she's a little nuts.

[B]

I think she's a little nuts. I think that she has, has released text messages but I don't know how many of those are fabricated. I think that if we're going to talk about France, like she definitely went down this whole kick and this was probably, this was over a year ago about prime minister's wife being a man and them pressing a lawsuit against her and then them taking that away and there's so much going on. This really what we can talk like the thesis of today is it all ties back to money, honestly, where it's like, dude, Candace Owens is getting so many views right now. Like the fact that we're talking about her. I haven't talked about Candace Owens in years. I knew, I've known who she was since probably 2017, but I haven't, I've, I've never had a conversation about her. And over the last three months I've had multiple conversations about her with all the Charlie Kirk stuff, with the France stuff, with the Israel stuff, with the Tucker Carlson stuff. I've had so many conversations about Candace Owens and so she is a master at getting eyeballs on her and she's making a ton of money from that. Do I believe what she is saying is true? I don't know. But I am not going to say anything else.

[A]

I think there's an interesting tie back to the conversation about big pharma and Big Ag and big nicotine. Is that is Candace Owens out there? Going, I'm going to deliberately say false information that will get me clicks because I'm a bad person. I believe that's not. I believe it's rare for that to happen in social media. Even. Like, I don't think of guys like Grant Cardone or Andy Elliott or, you know, whatever. Like, they're. They're big, big personalities and they say things that are like little bit Tucker Carlson. Same. They say big things. Are they bad people when they say big things that are wrong? No. The system rewards opinionated people who make claims that may or may not be fully substantiated and maybe throwing Andy Elliot or Grant cut on in there.

[B]

I was about to say so because. Because my thing is, is like, to me, that is wrong and that is being a bad person when you're saying no.

[A]

But you're just. The universe. Incentivize the universe. The social media universe is incentive. The algorithm incentivizes it. So, for example, the three best posts of the last 10 years of my Instagram were all within the last three months. One was about Charlie Kirk, one was about Donald Trump, and the other one was about Donald. Erica Kirk. It was Donald Trump, Erica Kirk and Charlie Kirk. Why so. And now they were like, for those of you who follow me, Instagram, you maybe even remember those posts. Like, one of them was me and Donald Trump sitting there having coffee together. It wasn't true. It was just an AI picture. It was dumb. And I just said, if I was sitting with Donald Trump, here's what I would say to him. There was no. I didn't say I supported Trump. I didn't say I didn't like Trump. I just said, if I was sitting with the actual President of the United States, here's the five things I'd ask him. Ask him. One of them was, please get us a chairman of the Federal Reserve that will lower interest rates. But, like, very. Whatever. People just go crazy in the comments. Right? So what does that tell me to do more of if I want more engagement on my social media, I need to just lean in a little bit more. And you could even argue. Argue. I never had this thought until just now. Why are we doing this episode of this podcast right now like this? Because somewhere in the back of my brain, I was like, oh, I got a dopamine hit. Because when I thought you just wanted.

[B]

To talk to me about this, I.

[A]

Think, okay, I did, I did. But this is where.

[B]

So now I'm making people hate me.

[A]

Yes. To get the subtlety of motivation combined with dopamine and combined with financial benefit and financial gain, you combine all that together. Together, the system is pushing us toward doing political content and doing current events content. And I do like this. This is fun in the same way. Have you ever heard that line, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a quick PG13 warning here. So if you got small kids in the car and you're listening to this, maybe just skip ahead 30 seconds. One of my favorite quotes about marketing is, if you split test anything far enough, you'll end up in gambling or gambling or porn. If you split test, in other words, words, if you ask people what they want to a mass amount of people and you say, hey, do you want to see a video about puppies or gambling? Gambling will win. And if you do, hey, you want to see gambling or a sunset, the gambling will win. And if you split test, in other words, if you throw it out to the mass, all human nature ends up in gambling or porn. And so the point being is, like, bad things tend to win out over time, subtly. And that's why things like when I post about Donald Trump or Charlie Kirk, it just blows up. And then I'm incentivized to do more of that. And so pretty soon you turn into Now I love Patrick. Be David. I love him. He did not start doing politics 6, 6, 10, 6, 7 years ago when I interviewed him on Bigger Pockets. He was just talking business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now he doesn't talk any business. He talks only politics. Same with Grant. I don't say same with Grant Cardone, but half of what Grant puts out there is political stuff. Why is he going pro Trump so much? Does he actually like Trump? Trump, maybe. Grant, you can come on the show and talk about this. He probably would say yes, and he's probably not. He's not lying. But why does he like Trump? Is it because he likes Trump or because he likes the clicks that he gets when he talks about Trump subconsciously, which makes him consciously want to talk about it anyway, so rant over.

[B]

But what I would say with that, and I think this is so important, at least for me in my personal life, is that's why I stopped doing social media. Media. I don't. I don't post on Instagram anymore. If I do, it's a picture of my family. I would like to post more, but it's like my thing was like, I'm just gonna give great real estate content. I'm not gonna try and get clicks. Even doing that, though, I found myself, like, posting a video and two hours on getting on my phone. How many likes? What's going on?

[A]

Yeah, it's really bad.

[B]

And like, dude, now, I mean, I will scroll my reels, but like, I don't post anymore because there's just something dark inside of me that wants inside all of us. And I, I had to fight against it where it's like, okay, I'm just gonna stop posting because I don't want to be that guy that is looking for validation outside of anybody but my wife, my kids and God. And so, like, I think I've posted a. The last time I probably posted a real estate thing on Instagram was eight months ago. And so.

[C]

So what?

[B]

Where I was going with that though, was the answer to your question. You said, I don't think they're a bad person. I do. Like, I think that if you are Candace Owens and you know that you are lying.

[A]

See, I don't think they know that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, like, I think subconsciously they know that it's going to give them more clicks so they lean in. This is like the.

[B]

So they believe. Like, they believe.

[A]

Okay, you could argue that. That. Keep. Keep going.

[B]

Well, I just, I think that that's wrong.

[A]

There are bad things. There are people who say bad things online that are knowingly. There's a dude right now. I don't know if I should say this. I'll say. I'll say it. There's a dude right now on LinkedIn, YouTube, social media, all over. I won't say his name now, though. I might make a public video about this soon who is posting absolutely false information about me and about Open Door Capital and about several other big syndicators out there. And he's going after a lot of us with really, like blatant wrong stuff. Like, like the articles like, Brandon Turner stole $14 million from investors and it's a really well written article from ChatGPT I'm sure that he used.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this article will basically go through how I stole this money. And it's like, here's why. Because when you look at this number over here and what he bought the property for, it's a $14 million difference. He clearly pocketed that money. Then we show him the settlement statement showing that we know we paid that amount of money for it and we can prove it. He'll delete the comment and then he'll hire, like, allegedly hire, because that's all they shares.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's running a scheme here because he wants you to pay him to stop.

[B]

What I love about it or not love about it. But what he's saying that.

[A]

Because that's something.

[B]

What's so funny about it is he's calling all these guys scam or fraud. And first of all, he has been convicted of fraud multiple times, over 100 million. Is when you look at his, the data behind his, his Instagram or whatever he. On, on one of the videos, actually, I think it was one of yours, where it's got like 6,000 views and 5,000 likes. And anybody that knows anything about Instagram knows that the only way that's happening is you're paying for likes and you're paying for comments. Then when you go and start clicking the comments, it's all of these overseas accounts with 300,000 followers or, oh, I can't believe that this is happening. Right? It says like, so, like, you are committing fraud and being a scam artist by accusing other people of this. This it.

[A]

That's his whole mo. Like, you can go read, he's got a movie made about him. Again, I talk too much on this. There's lawsuits happening at this moment. So I don't want to go too deep on this. No, that's it. It's like, it's absurd. He is a bad person. He is a bad person because he actively knows what he's saying is incorrect. He knows it's a lie. He's trying to get money out of it. Probably allegedly, all this. Allegedly. It's absurd. He's a bad person person. Candace Owens, I think she actually believes that Brigitte Marcon, or whatever lady's name is, is actually a man. She actually believes that. Now, do I believe that? I'm not really, but maybe I honestly, I'm like, who cares? But whatever. But she knows that every time she posts about it, it gets more clicks. So she's going to lean into it. And so the system, and this is not a they, this is the, a human nature system rewards bad behavior is what, is what it does.

[B]

Well, like, and, and I, I, I.

[A]

Guess, I mean, I agree with you.

[B]

In that, like somebody that. And I'm sure that people that know him listen to this podcast, but I'll say same. I don't care. I've said a lot of things today. So. Andy Elliot.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I bet you if I met Andy Elliott, I'd be like, man, you're a good guy. Yeah, I like you.

[A]

He'd yell at you for being fat.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He'd be like, take your shirt off. Yeah, you don't take your shirt off if you don't have a six pack. You don't like your family.

[B]

That's why I don't like him. That's why I don't like him. I'm.

[A]

Why does he do that, though?

[B]

Because it gets.

[A]

He did it one time, it got viral, and he does it every.

[B]

And so I don't have a lot of respect for that. Yeah, personally, I do not have a lot respect for that. At the same time, it does look like he loves his wife. It looks like he loves his kids. It looks like. So I guess saying that he's a bad guy is probably not right. He has bad tendencies and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Things that I think that he should.

[A]

I. No, I think. I think there was a time again, Andy Elliott, I would love if you came on the show at some point. I would love to talk about this stuff because I would love to know, like, the heart behind, like, I actually believe Andy Elliott's heart. For those who don't know, Andy Elliott just is a. He's a sales trainer that just goes viral all the time for saying really, really controversial stuff about, like, take off your shirt. Are you proud of that? Like, you know, things like, if you don't. If you don't have a six pack, you can't work for me. Stuff like that. Now, I believe he comes at it from a good place where he thinks if you're not healthy and taking care of yourself, like, then why would you expect to take care of your family? Or, you know, he's got justification, his head. But the. The logic, I'm going to die is the system has rewarded it and then he, He. It changes how he thinks about the things he's saying to make him believe.

[B]

The thing he's saying in his head that he. Yeah, but even looking at, like, the streamers of today or like Logan Paul, when he was big on YouTube, posting the video of the dead body, like, like, that's wrong. It's bad. It's like you're a bad human being. I think that Logan Paul's went on to do a lot of not so bad things.

[A]

I don't know about that dead body.

[B]

You don't know. That was a huge deal. Like, he was in Japan and found a dead body and videoed it and posted on YouTube. Huge deal. He's not allowed in Japan. I don't think he could do the last, like, WWE fight that was over there. Really, really big deal. It was. When it was. It was 10 years. I think he was like 22 at the time. And so also just his frontal cortex, or whatever it's called, hadn't developed yet made stupid decisions.

[A]

I don't make stupid decisions anymore because mine's.

[B]

But streamers like that's, that's huge right now. You've got neon. You've got.

[A]

Yeah, people just do stupid stuff.

[B]

Speed. You've got the Jack Doherty guy, which I don't know why I know all these guys names but they're, they're the worst. They're so like the entire stream is causing fights, walking around, being obnoxious, being mean to people and it does get clicks. But I think they're bad human beings like you. You just don't do that by being a good human being.

[A]

Let me ask you a question. Related Andy Elliott recently mentioned that he is off social media entirely. He does not touch it, does not look at it anymore. He is 100% off social media. And then anybody who's on social media, he tells them they're a bad fan, a bad parent. Like I've seen this clips yet. He hires videographers that follow him around and social media managers and they run his account and they blow his account up. Why? Because he makes $100 million a year, whatever it is off this. And is that, is that wrong to say I think social media is bad. You shouldn't be on it. However I'm going to Then it's like you shouldn't do drugs. But I'm going to still deal drugs and I'm going to make drugs. I'm going to put drugs into the world.

[B]

Yes, I think that's bad. That's why I don't do social media.

[A]

Because you think actually bad. You don't think that social media, for example, and I'll include podcasting with social media here is like just media. Whatever. You don't think that social media has actually helped people learn real estate, get into real estate. Follow me, follow you. And so by you because you can't control your impulse two hours later to go check likes there is going to be some kid in Nebraska who will never find out about real estate. He's gonna be stuck in a job he doesn't like for the next 50 years of his life because you, you didn't want to put yourself out there. That's just the other side of the coin.

[B]

I would say the world would be so one of my favorite philosophers. I think we talked about this one once. He makes the comment to discern between bad and good. His comment is if everybody in the world was doing this, would the world be a better or a worse place? And you can run that through almost any scenario in your life, and you can determine what is wrong and what is right. So, like, for instance, like, is it a big deal for me to throw that ghost can out of my car window as I'm driving down the highway? No, it's wrong. I shouldn't do it. I think most people that are listening to this know that you shouldn't do that. If everybody in the world did that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Would the world lead to a better place or a worse place? And the answer is, it would lead to a worse place. Is it wrong for. Well, is it not wrong? Cause I would say the answer is yes. Let me give another example. This was a conversation I had with a friend the other day, Me not telling you the truth about something where it's like, man, I think Brandon really needs to hear this. But, you know, for the sake of our friendship, I'm just. I'm not. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Like, does that really affect anything in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. Like, we would go along, still have a great relationship if everybody in the world didn't speak truth to people. Would the world be a better or worse place? It would be worst place.

[A]

How's that apply, though, to, like.

[B]

Like with speeding? For me, speeding it is. And I speed all the time, so I'm. I'm not, like, saying I'm some perfect angel, but if everybody in the world sped when they drove, would the world lead to a state of decay or would it lead to a more vibrant, better world? The answer is it would lead to a state of decay. And so, like, you can run almost everything through that real estate.

[A]

What if everyone invested in real estate? It wouldn't work. It only works because most people won't do it.

[B]

Yeah, but I think you got to get more. I think you got to get more granular than that. Like the how of investing in real estate. If everybody invested in real estate like I do, I think the world would be a better place. Like, there wouldn't be. It wouldn't work at some point because there wouldn't be enough houses. But we buy distressed houses. We're not buying off the market. We're not overpaying for houses. We're buying distressed houses. We're fixing them up. We're putting. Putting tenant in there. We are taking care of that tenant. They give us a maintenance order. We're fixing it within 24 hours, and we're doing it the right way. We're not doing lipstick on a pig. We're not taking advantage of our. If everybody invested that way, the world would be a better place and there would be less houses, but the tenants that are living in those houses would have a great place and a safe place to live that's fixed up and nice. Now look at it in another direction. If everybody was a slumlord landlord, Lord, would the world be a better or a worse place? It would be a worse place. And so I think you got to get more granular with it. But where was I going with that? I was going back to social media. And if everybody got on social media and lied and manipulated data. You said something about Andy Elliott. He was on the school of hard knocks Instagram saying that he made a hundred million dollars last year. He didn't make a hundred million dollars. Not even sure if his business did a hundred million dollars in revenue. But I'm sure that's what he was talking about.

[A]

About.

[B]

But even that was a stretch. When you say I made $100 million.

[A]

You think so or you. You're saying hypothetically, I know for a.

[B]

Fact he didn't make a hundred.

[A]

You don't think so?

[B]

I know somebody who works with him now. He might have done $100 million in revenue.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what they all say whenever they say that.

[B]

That in and of itself is a small lie. Our flipping business did $25 million in revenue. Like, would I ever get online and say I made $25 million last year? No. No. Our cost of goods sold. Like, I'm not going to make a million dollars this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is so like to get on and be like, I made $25 million. It's BS. It's. It's a huge lie. And if the entire world does that over and over again, like our world is leading into a state of a decay instead of a better world.

[A]

I agree. I would like to know Spencer Robin's opinion on this. Come on over. Come on over to the Better Life podcast with Brandon and Cam. Would you like to join us for a minute? He's coming over. All right, great. That's great.

[C]

We got.

[A]

He's. He brought wine, so we're good. We're actually filming a podcast. Come on over. Clear your spot right here. We only. We're at the end. We're wrapping this up pretty soon, but while you're here, we're gonna clear this off.

[B]

How long have we been going on this one?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

We've been going for an hour and 30 minutes. Man. I'm gonna get. Dude, it's not. People are not gonna, like, Us, maybe they might like us more.

[A]

You talk the camera, what we're looking at right there, the Canon and editors, you can keep all this in the. This is great. And this is the microphone that I'm currently using. And I'm gonna pass it to you when I'm talking to you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We're talking about right now social media, and we're talking about the tendency that social media drives us towards being controversial and same things like Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson. The more absurd things you say or Andy Elliott or. I mean, really. Anyway, like, the more absurd you say things, the more you're rewarded. And therefore, the more you're rewarded. And because it supports your business monetarily, you're rewarded as well. It just drives us into worse and worse stuff. And that's kind of the conversation we're having. I know you do social media a little bit and you do. You have, you know, classes and programs and the whole thing. First of all, for those who don't know, you tell us who you are and then we'll talk about this.

[C]

So do a couple things. But our main business is alive and free consulting. We have helped Christians heal from past pain, trauma, things that have affected their relationships negatively, like shame, self hatred. We believe that a lot of our pain in current relationships, relationships really originates from childhood pain that resulted from, like, our parents not knowing how to love us the way that they needed to. And then we've built life coach certification programs for believers that want to become life coaches. So my history is just really. Because I was in a shit show, I somehow found we don't cuss on this. Yeah, my bad, guys. The first thing I said was, we have a Christian company. Next thing I said, said was, so, yeah, I'm like an edgy Christian, like a normal Christian.

[B]

I'm a cool Christian.

[C]

I'm like, cool. Like, yeah, yeah. I'm not a normal dad. I'm a cool dad. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, we do a lot of. A lot of podcast content on emotional health. I think in. In the church, there's been a real lack of, like, being trauma informed, understanding how trauma impacts our relationships, our connection with God, all those different things. But it's like, it's. What you're talking about is part of the reason why I despise social media and why I, like, got rid of my Instagram, got rid of everything that I have. I basically. We only do, like, paid advertising because I'm like, I could do one pointed thing, spend money towards it and leave it out there and not have to play that game.

[A]

But so let me, let me ask you this question then. So what we were kind of debating here is if social media is like a drug drug, and, and it is, it's bad for a lot of people. So we, a lot of us limit or reduce or completely don't use social media, yet we put content out there. Is that just like, hey, drugs are bad, so I'm gonna just sell drugs instead of actually make drugs? Like, how do we like as both as just good humans, but also as Christians? How so Cam doesn't use social media or post on it?

[B]

I guess, I guess. Let me, let me real quick say. I think that, that everything in this world like it is there. It started with something beautiful and then it was perverted over time to being bad. And I think social media is an incredible platform to share pictures of your life and your family and stay connected. I, I love it for that. Like, I've got friends that I haven't talked to in 10 years, but I just went back to St. Louis and I'll run into them at a coffee shop and I'll know about their lives and that I think I love social media for, for that. I don't love social media for the, the fact of, look at me, look at how great I am, look at what I'm doing for the dopamine hit that people are looking for social media. And I don't love the way that social media has built itself where it's like literally Facebook and Instagram, they've paid gambling companies billions and billions of dollars to learn what are the triggers and the colors and the things that we have to do to get people addicted to it. And so social media in and of itself is a beautiful thing that I believe helps with connectedness. It's just, just been perverted over the last 15 years to now be this huge dopamine spike in people and lead to depression, anxiety, and feelings of loneliness. And so, so I do think it's, it's bad now, but I also think that what it was made for and if you can use it, how it was made, it's still a beautiful concept.

[A]

Agreed, Agreed. So how do we, as creators of social media, create stuff that isn't going to spiral people? Actually, you know, I think does a good job a guy that, you know is Alex Hermosi, where he doesn't actually go into crazy like, take off your shirt. You don't love your family if you don't have a six pack. He stays pretty straight, doesn't say obstruction right now. Yeah, no, please don't take off your shirt. We want to feel good about ourselves right now. Exactly. You know, so maybe, maybe that's the answer is like, you can still provide good, valuable content. I am a better person. I'm a better business owner because of consuming Alex Hormozy content. I'm not a worse person because of that, and I hope that's the way that people see me. But what do you think?

[C]

Well, now you're talking about what drives your consumption of content. And I'd say a lot of people, their drive toward content, they're like, drive towards content consumption is usually for dissociation and medication. So I think if your drive is for medication, you're probably going to get driven to those things that just do the clickbait. But I think if your drive is like, no, I'm intentionally going here to get updated on family and friends and potentially going here to learn something, then the type of content you go to consume is very different. So you have the Alex Hormozis where I'd say the value of what he provides is the reason why he's grown. You know, it's not because he's done all this clickbait stuff. He's used, I think all the things that grow, that utilize, like the stimulus to the algorithm to grow. But I think his content ends up being so good. And you look at, like, media out there, like true media, like the different conservative networks or liberal networks that none of us like. I'm just kidding. But, like, they're. They're driving what they perceive as valuable to their audience and then using, like, headlines and clickbait and all that stuff to drive to the valuable content. But it's like, it's the value of the content that keeps you, you and then you have, like, the entertainment value that's out there. And I think people more than ever have, like, such a desperate need to be entertained, but I think it's because so many people have lost their purpose or lost connection to themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I don't know what the solution is, but I think it's like when you look at a drug dealer and an addict, there's some responsibility to go to both of them. You're like, you know, but I think we more harshly judge the person that sells drugs, like, the drug dealer, dealer. And we kind of like feel bad for and empathize with the addict. Like, oh, they're just addicted. We got to get them in rehab. And so that's why even as a society, we punish drug dealers more harshly. Than we do addicts. But I think in the social media game, we need to perceive it that same way. It's like there should be more scrutiny for the person that's putting stuff out there. I don't know, it's tough, but I think it's like on both sides, there's responsibility. There needs to be more education, I think, towards consumers to learn how to navigate, like, that consumption and like, why do you go to it? You know, there's. I think there's more and more programs becoming available for, like, people to address some of that stuff.

[B]

Well, and I would say Hormozi is a great example. You already said this, but of like, the positive and it's really great content and it's not clickbaity. There's a lot of social media influencers out there in the real estate space as well who do things like dye their hair certain colors to get clicks or.

[C]

It'S very specific.

[B]

Where it's like. And to me, that, I don't know, I just like, it's tough to get behind. And then, I mean, you can't fault somebody. For me, like, I'll get on to watch Hormosi's videos or something like that that are informative, and five minutes later, I'm on seven second knockout fight videos. You know, like, it's just. It's so hard for people. So I. I don't know. Social media is great for content sometimes and value. It's just you have to be so dialed in when you're using it because it can be perverted so quickly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you think? So here's my fear with social media is we, if you reward sensational content, we'll say that way. We reward this. So the Candace Owens of the worlds and the.

[B]

I take back the color thing.

[A]

What thing?

[B]

The hair color.

[A]

I actually did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I actually disagree with that. I actually think, like, that's just like a. A unique way to stand out in a crowded space. So you got to find that as a business owner. Yeah. You got to be calcul.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I literally grew the beard because I wanted to stand out as a normal, tall, lanky white dude. And there's a million of us. And so I thought, wow, if I grew a beard, I would stand out. It's literally why I did this now. I kept it because I like it. But there was a. It was a business choice to grow a beard to just be different anyway. So, like, if sensationalism sells, you know, sex and gambling sells, you know, the bad things tend to sell better and then we get rewarded for it. So you get more and more people. So, like, we get more extreme politicians, we get more extreme social media people, we get more extreme pranksters. We get all that, that. And it's like we're circling this drain and getting worse and worse and worse. So the question, I guess I wonder, is like, there's no sign of that ending. There's no way that stops. So where do we move as a society? It's just ev. Like, the only way you get anything is to be Candace Owens and accuse a foreign president of being a man or, you know, like, whatever, like president's wife. I don't know. It's like, I don't know where we end up as a society other than maybe the next generation will go like, ah, we're just going to opt out of this and maybe there's going to be a movement towards. Well, I don't know.

[B]

So here's. I mean, this is a weird conversation to me because there's a lot of my, my friends that do this for me. The decision that I've made is if I'm not going to make as much money, that's fine, like, part of deal flow. Like, I couldn't be like, I want to make you a million dollars in the next year. Like, click on this link and sign up for my. Like, I just, I couldn't sleep at night doing that. I couldn't, I couldn't be behind that sensationalism. And, and even though works, even though it works, I just, I. But it only works for the right people. I didn't feel good about that. And so for me, the decision that I've made is like, I'm just not going to do that. Like, I, I would. And, and you are going to make less money and you're going to get less clicks and you're going to have less Instagram followers. But what I would say, yeah, I think this is really important. And Horosi says, this is like, if I, I would much rather have 500 raving fans than a million people that are following me because of sensationalism or something like that.

[C]

I think it's what you just talked about is like, what matters most to your soul and like, what's going to bring the greatest fulfillment. I think there's this assumption from so many people that fame and money is what's going to fulfill you. It's like, if I just have enough of that, then I'm going to be happy enough. Money, fame, it's just like. And then when you Buy into it. I look at my wife and has become so obsessed with. Not obsessed with, but has loved watching the Kardashians. Like, she's like, yeah, they feel like my friends now. And like, we have a new three month old. So she's sitting there, like, nursing and.

[A]

And so is that Chloe or Kim you named the three year old?

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We. We named him Kim.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[C]

There's that, and then there's Secret Life of Mormon Wife.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I do love Secret Lives of Mormon wise. Like, I don't watch any reality TV show, but my wife and I have watched a good five episodes of that. Taylor, Frankie, Paul, I would love to have you on the podcast. Please, come on. I would love to hang out with you. Anyway, keep going.

[C]

So I think about that.

[B]

I have nothing. I've never watched one episode of the Kardashians.

[C]

It's great trash. But, like, when you look at people that have really built their life around fame and money, I look at the Kardashians and I don't see extremely happy people. I see people that take three hours to get ready for a DMV picture for their license, and they literally bring their entire glam crew, like, with them for a DMV picture. That's like the one episode I walked into. I'm like, what did I just walk into right now? And I look at this, I'm like, that does not look like a satisfying life to me. And I think it's like this fame influence, this sensationalism you're talking about. It gets its claws in you so subtly at first. Like, you make a decision, decision for the business. It's like that one leverage point to raise your business or elevate your business or something. It's just like, oh, it just was wisdom in the moment because of this. And then I think it's like gradually these claws start sinking in deeper and deeper until you're like, man, we have to XYZ in order to. And then it almost becomes like, I've seen people lose themselves to this fabricated personality that they've become.

[A]

Become?

[C]

Yeah, it's like everywhere they go is like this new business.

[A]

I got a question for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. So on that note, we would say that feels like a shallow, Like a Kardashian type show or Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. It's kind of a shallow kind of a show. There's no point to it. Whatever. It's kind of drugs. It's like, whatever. It's quote unquote bad and if you were to talk to those people, sit down with Kim Kardashian. She's a very smart entrepreneur, very smart lady. She'd probably be like, well, people are watching it and here anyway, so we might as well provide. It's part of my business. I make money. We're going to give money away, maybe, or we're going to provide a better life, or we have all these people we're employing and people are going to watch that trash anyway. So therefore we should do it. Not so dissimilar. I guess the point I'm going to make is from what you do, Cam, and what I do, which is the real estate side, where, like, why. Why don't you. Every person, you go to their house to talk with them, they could get more if they listed it with a real estate agent. Now, there's a lot of hassle there and a lot of trouble, but, like, you could help them with that. That. But they're going to sell it to somebody anyway. It might as well be you. Right? And so how is what we're doing any different than Kim Kardashian? That's the question. We're just doing a service.

[B]

Repeat your question.

[A]

Yeah, so the question is, are we. We as real estate investors are doing trash business that actually doesn't. I don't say benefit. It does benefit people, but it's not the best thing in the world for people. They should. Everyone should go own a house and then, you know, oh, see, But I would.

[B]

I would disagree with that. Like, I would say for most people, and maybe this is why my company is not going to make a lot of money this year. Most people that sell to us, they should sell to us. They. Their house is so trash, they don't have the capacity the time to fix it up. They don't. They don't have the organizational skills to fix it up. A realtor is not going to want to list it. If they do list it, a lot of times they've got dogs, they've got cats, it's filled with animal feces. Whatever. Nobody's going to walk it. Nobody's going to make an offer. So a lot of times it does make sense for them to sell for us. Or another thing that makes sense for them to sell for us is, hey, I'm closing on a new house in two weeks, and I need the money for this house in less than two weeks. They can't list that on the retail market and sell it in two weeks. And so when they sell to us, it. We are providing a Service. I won't buy a house if I'm not providing a service. If we walk a house and this person has zero pain points and they could list it on the market it and sell it for way more than they're selling it to us, I will straight up tell them that, say, hey, I get, like, why you called me. You want to sell your house. Like, why wouldn't you just list it on the market? And very rarely do they say, oh, I haven't thought about that yet. They have a reason. Well, no, honestly, like, I don't want people in and out of my house when I'm.

[A]

I don't trust agents.

[B]

And so I. I really do think that we provide a service and we're helping them in that.

[A]

So. Okay, that's a good. That's a fair. That's a fair point. I just really wanted to say that we're just like Kim Kardashian. We're basically the same person. But was providing a service that well.

[B]

And I think, like, tying back into the Instagram thing and we've been on this for a long time. But, like, that's one of the reasons that I was immediately drawn to you.

[A]

And it wasn't my good looks in China. Well, it was.

[B]

It was that. But it was like you were the same person on Instagram is the podcast. And then I came out to the Maui Mastermind mine, and I met you. And full disclosure, you were like, my hero going into that because I, I read your. I read your book, and then I started buying houses, and so I was so nervous about, like, is Brandon going to be a huge jerk? And. And then meeting you. And the first time you met, it was at the hotel up in Kapali and sat down and had drinks. And then after the Maui Mastermind, you invited people over to your house, and then you stayed in contact. And then I came out to the one in Sedona, and I don't know if you remember this. Ran into you at Chipotle and you're like, what's up?

[A]

And, like, like, I have no memory.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I remember it because you're my hero, but that's funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really meaningful.

[A]

All I remember from Sedona is that your wife took Rosie and did her, like, hair and makeup and stuff. And that was such a. That was a cool moment for Rosie.

[B]

Awesome. Yeah, I do remember that. I remember that too. But what I'm saying is, like, you can do it, right? We. You can be the same person, whether you're right here, whether you're On Instagram, whether you're on a podcast, you. You can be the same person. It can be done. Right. I just think a lot of people do it wrong.

[A]

Agreed. All right, we're going to start rapping. But Spencer, since we had this conversation way earlier, I'm going to ask you the same question. Yeah. I got one more question for you and then we're going to wrap. What is a conspiracy theory that you actually like, pretty wholeheartedly believe in? That might surprise us. She now because you were in the room. Yeah. Covered big. Pharma and big. You know, we covered the moonland a little bit. We did talk about Epstein a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not even a conspiracy theory at this point. That's true.

[A]

Well, the conspiracy theory would be like, did we kill him in prison or did he hang himself?

[C]

Well, technically a conspiracy theory is something that hasn't been proven yet by evidence in the legal system of something that was conspired. Right. Something that happened that people conspired against. Radio.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, FC has been proven.

[C]

I know, I know. Okay. But here's, here's what I'll say. I do think that pharma wants a sick. I think it's like debate earlier. I disagreed, but I think pharma is trying to get us sick because it makes it. It makes the industry more money. And yeah, we don't.

[A]

I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but what my argument was, it's not a person at pharma. It's the American system rewards sickness financially and therefore it's millions of choices get. Make people sick. It's not a person. Would you disagree or agree?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, if we're get like biblical, it's like mammon, you know, it's like that, that pursuit of money for like, you know, that's what we believe in our culture. And Christianity is like mammon is this like pursuit of money. Like that's your, that's what you serve. That's like your master. Like money. So I could just have more. It's like the. Nothing will satisfy. And so when you see those people that already have billions and they want to keep their billions, they want to like fight for it. Yeah, I would say that drive towards more. Just towards more towards more. And then it's like you, you take out one person or you take out another company that is coming against your agenda. You do that once, it sears your conscience. And it's like, I think they've made all these micro decisions to the point where they're like population control. Yeah, I think we can justify that.

[B]

That.

[C]

But honestly, I think that there's a lot of sinister crap that happens behind the scenes in big pharma. And I think they're trying to keep people sick and they're coming out with things that maybe solve some symptomatic problems. But like anytime I hear about stuff that really like solves root conditions and issues, they don't want to hear about it. They don't want to like push that stuff forward. They want to shut it down as fast as possible so their drugs can keep making money.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And there's nothing preventative within the healthcare system. System. It's all symptom based where I agree.

[A]

But do you think that's like in some call, you know, they always talk about doctors take like, you know, one minute of class on nutrition and like 4 million hours on medicine. Right. Is that because some guy who's in his office and he's there with this briefcase of money and he's given it to the university president going, I don't want you to have a single class on nutrition. Here's your $100 million. That's conspiracy. Or is it that the system rewards conversation around. Around medicine and that's what they're there for and it doesn't reward nutrition because nutrition is a long game and not a short game. You know what I mean? So that's the difference between conspiracy. I was always getting that way earlier was conspiracy versus just natural human nature rewards. That's where I would consider almost all of those things are just this is flawed human nature results in these things happening. Like no nutrition and it's way easier to take a shot. Yeah, but I don't think it's a bad guy in a room.

[C]

But, but where does cons, like where do conspiracies come from? Is it not just from money and this? Like, aren't conspiracies driven by the system you're talking about? You know, so like when you look at like okay, maybe an assassination attempt on someone's life was created by this. Is it not for money and power? The system that has like created.

[A]

But that is a person's decision. I want to go and kill this person. Like that's as a. Now you could say, okay, the. Let's go here. Did President Trump when he got almost assassinated in the bullet nicked him. Right. Is that, did that actually happen? Was that all plant? Was this Tyler dude? Is he really like who he says he is? What's your. What like I Don't know.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know enough about that.

[B]

Neither do I, but I'll give my opinion.

[C]

But, but here's, here's. Here's a. Yeah, yeah. So conspiracy. George Soros fought antifa. Places people, like an organization, places people in different, like, conservative rallies to make it look like conservatives are extremely, like, off their rocker.

[B]

But if you don't think conservatives do that.

[C]

I think that. I think they do, but I think that there are lots of antifa, like antifa plants, like, trying.

[B]

But I think it's both sides.

[C]

I agree, I agree. I'm not saying we, like conservatives are without fault or blame, but I think there's a lot of George Soros money backing, like a lot of that agenda to just make everything one world order. I believe in that conspiracy theory.

[A]

You know, Explain that.

[C]

One.

[A]

One world order. It's conspiracy theory.

[C]

So I think that George Soros is trying to destabilize the United States, trying to like, culturize everything to be just like. Like there is no true culture of America. I think he's trying to create some weird socialist civilization. I haven't done so much research on it because we stay in our lane with the things that we care about, the things that are important to us. But I've heard enough about not things that I can teach on a stage, but things that I can internalize myself and make a decision on. From what I've seen, George Soros is trying to, with all of his money, fund an agenda to. To like, I don't know, completely disarm and destroy all conservative agendas. Like, to small government, have people homestead, have people have just enough laws to protect our freedoms. It's like all that different stuff. I think he's like, he's doing something and I don't know what it is, but that's a conspiracy that I'm like, there's a lot of merit to the things that I've like, heard.

[B]

See, And I believe in a conspiracy theory. One step high, higher that. Because I think that's the conspiracy theory in of itself is. It's, hey, we're gonna pit left verse right. We're gonna pit George Soros and his people versus the right. Like, I don't think. I think that there's a they that's higher. That's like, hey, this is awesome. We have all of this fighting. It's a ground level, and we're up here pulling the strings. And left hates the right, and there's so much animosity and. And neighbors Hate neighbors and that to me, there's a, there's a higher up.

[C]

Like, I don't like God complexes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

There's a higher that he thinks he's.

[B]

God, like George Soros. I don't know much about it.

[A]

This is a good. I would argue that though, like, that's okay. Human nature is to. If I say, I think whatever, I think that we shouldn't have abortion. There's going to be somebody be like, no, we should abort every baby. Because there's like this natural. Humans want to fight.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't think it's somebody in a room going, how do we make people fight? I do believe there's people going, how do we profit off the fighting that's happening? So it's not a conspiracy to make the thing, the situation happen. There may be a conspiracy to capitalize on a real life situation. Like, I don't want to make people sick. This is why I go, pharma, big pharma doesn't want to make people sick. In my mind they're going to say people are sick because that's how human nature is. How do we capitalize on the sickness? And then maybe there are decisions made, made that could help overall. And they choose not to go that route because it would hurt them. But they didn't make us sick. They're just like, oh, yeah, yeah. Actually, clearly it would be better if we all ate more vegetables.

[C]

Well, then why do pharmaceutical companies or the, like, the owners of pharmaceutical companies also own Kraft, which produces, also Monsanto, which produces fertilizer for crops. And why does it.

[A]

Yeah, because there's money in all those.

[C]

Yeah. So if I, if I can make. It's like, okay, wait second. You're solving a sickness that's produced by the terrible food that's also causing the sickness. Like, how is that not like how. You'd have to be a complete dumbass to not see that, like, we're causing the thing that we treat and make money off of.

[A]

I can, I can see some of that. I can see some of that. But again, I don't know if it's a person going, I think they justify it with. People are going to eat crap food anyway. And so we might as well make it better than the other crap that they're eating because they need, they can't afford good food. So we're going to make it affordable and do as good as we, we can. Now, maybe I'm giving him way too much credit here, but like, I just can't believe there's boardroom people paying you? No, Israel is which.

[B]

I mean, they own big pharma, maybe.

[A]

All right, on that note, we're going to get out of here, everybody.

[B]

One last. Alvar Lavine died a long time ago.

[A]

Person you did too.

[B]

She was amazing. She was amazing.

[C]

But that's a thing.

[A]

Yeah. There was a time where I thought that was. Might be true.

[C]

And Taylor Swift is the devil. So I know there's all these crazy things. I actually, by the way, I don't know if Crafton is owned by. I just like, I heard like, I heard some details and I'm just like, I don't argue this stuff because I'm like, I don't study enough to care.

[A]

We do know that like the, the, the heads of a lot of big pharma are also involved in the government side around making policies around that. Like we know that exists and that's clearly stupid in a lot of ways. Now I understand why they maybe could justify because, like, they're obviously well connected in the industry and so. But there's some weird. Obviously there's some weird things there and the laws that get passed.

[C]

I mean, have you watched Ozarks?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look at.

[C]

You look at all these people paid off and like the blackmail and extortion that's out there around like your sexual deviance. And so. And we have it videoed. And so if you do Epstein thing and you're like, how much of that stuff's so twisted to this point where you're like, what is happening? But I do think like, like if it's driven by money and power and a part of that's fame too, for some people's fame equals power. And a lot of people money equals power. I think it's like this desire for power that is like driving these different things. And so it's like the conspiracy, like you said, is driven by a system. That system is probably like power.

[A]

Yeah, I would. I would agree with that. I'll go one more conspiracy theory that we don't have time to go deep into. And this is going to get into we weird La La Land if you're not a Christian at all. But I'm a big believer.

[C]

Yeah, I'm a big John Ryan podcast.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. We're just going to deep into this. I do believe like there's a spiritual war. You know, I think most Christians believe that there's spiritual war. It's a common phrase. But when we talk about like devil, demons, etc, I think that's probably behind almost all of this, at some level, I think that there's evil, whatever you want to call it, evil and good, like leaders of countries and of sins. In other words, like, I think there is a. Again, this is going to get crazy for some people, but, like, I think there is a. We'll call it a demon of murder. I think there of school shootings. Why does, or, or maybe it's like the, the demon who runs America or, like, oversees this and there's some biblical backing on this. Like, he just really gets off on school shootings. That's why it happens in America more than any other place in the world. You know, every other place in the world combined, because they just really get off on that. So I, I, I, that's probably the weirdest conspiracy theory I have, is that there's just a dark demonic force that's guiding all of this. And we just think that we're making choices. And in reality, reality, there's demonic activity going on.

[C]

It's a mixture of personal agency and it's a mixture. It's always a mixture. Like, because I feel like the world, we live in emotional health with Christianity, we hear so much in the therapy world, so much in the somatic world, so much in the emotional health, so much in the deliverance and demons. And it's like, I think each camp will probably err on the side of it's 90% this. And so you'll hear that from, like, in the nutrition world, it's. It's like, you should eat this way. And then this person's like, no, you should eat this way. And we all kind of sit in our camp, like, and it's almost like you get this bias of this is what everything is. Because I'll hear those from that perspective of, like, demon spiritual warfare, all that stuff where they'll just be like, they'll blame it all on that, right? And then you're like, well, where's the personal agency? Those people are like, it's all on you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, no, there's a spiritual.

[A]

Because the demon of bad food is, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And then there's Other people are like, how, how dare you eat those Cheetos? Don't you care that you're fat and, like, healthy? This is all on you. And it's like, not. There's a share of responsibility here. So I'm like, how much is personal agency? How much is spiritual? Because I do think there's spiritual warfare. But it's like, how do you make sense of all that stuff? And what is, like, Your. I think you can look at all this stuff too and almost just feel so powerless to know what to do and how to respond to it. But I think that's like hopefully the point of this conversation you guys are having.

[A]

So figure out what to frickin.

[C]

What the friggin do with it.

[B]

What to do with it is. Is love your family and raise them well.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And that's all.

[A]

Yeah. Love God, love people. That's like the.

[B]

Yeah. And, and be a good, be a good neighbor and like that.

[A]

Like a good neighbor State Farm is there.

[B]

Yeah. I, I don't. I'm not as, I'm not as deep into like the demonic side as you guys are. Like I obviously believe in demonic activity but I, I feel like the original sin is like, like a perversion of something that is really good and that is where our world has moved to is like it was this great, beautiful, amazing thing and over time it's been perverted and that's how everything is in this life. And I think that there's the personal agency that's involved in that of like, I think there's so many people that believe that what they are doing is good and needed and kind of what you were saying with like Candace Owens where it's like you really. I think she really thinks that what she's doing is right and good and just. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't studied enough about that.

[A]

I think most people think what they're doing is given right now and I.

[B]

Think you can manipulate you, you, you can pervert anything to where it's like I don't know who caused 911 but like if we knew about it and let it happen and thousands of people die, it was like we're going to be able to get into the Middle east because of this and save millions of people's lives and somebody justifies. Yes. There's some sort of justification taking place everywhere and I think that that is the devil's like biggest tool in its belt is. Is justification or the perversion of something that is. Is good and needed and turning it into something terrible and manipulating it into something terrible so deep.

[C]

You know what would make this conversation better is some bourbon, a fire and four more hours.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. Well we wanted to test out this little style of a podcast. So Spencer, thank you for joining us to today. Spencer Robbins, great guy working at the office today and we're going to test out this so let us know in the comments below. Did you like this style? Do you want more of this style. This is kind of what I talked about earlier, where if it does really well, maybe we'll do more of it. If it does terrible, we'll probably do less of it. But I enjoyed it.

[B]

I had a blast doing it. I'm. I'm trying to think through if I said anything. I said some things that I shouldn't.

[A]

Have said, but I think that's just the nature of this style of podcast is what, like, yeah, impulsive or, you know, whatever. Patrick by David. Like, they. They probably say a lot of stupid things. That's actually why I give a lot of grace to, like, church pastors who have, like, they say a stupid thing on stage that sounds really bad, and then it gets blown up all over social media. Or politicians. Same thing. A politician that's.

[B]

You're talking.

[A]

They're talking every day, hours and hours, you're gonna say stupid stuff and say.

[B]

Things that don't make sense or you haven't thought through.

[A]

So please take something you heard Cam say today and make a social media post about it. Yes, exactly. That's. Cam said Israel was bad.

[B]

I never said that. You said that. You put those words in my mouth. I said that there is a higher entity controlling the world that we don't know about. All right.

[A]

And you said, let's do a whole episode in Israel next time. Thanks for joining us. And this is the Better Life podcast with Brandon Turner and Cam Cathcart signing off.