The #1 Tip to Raise Money for your Real Estate Deal | Marcin Drozdz (Ep 145)

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: The BetterLife Podcast
Episode: The #1 Tip to Raise Money for your Real Estate Deal | Marcin Drozdz (Ep 145)
Hosts: Brandon Turner & Cam Cathcart
Guest: Marcin Drozdz
Date: May 6, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Brandon and Cam sit down with Marcin Drozdz—a seasoned real estate investor and capital-raising expert who has helped raise over $300 million across real estate and business ventures. The focus is the reality of raising money for real estate deals: the often-overlooked personal elements, capital raising strategies (from syndications to funds), hiring, leadership lessons, the current (and coming) market climate, and actionable advice both for total beginners and experienced investors. The episode weaves Marcin’s fascinating immigrant story, hard-earned tactical frameworks, and candid “what I wish I knew” reflections.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The #1 Tip for Raising Capital (04:41)

• Premise: Most people think “the deal comes first.” Marcin says, “the deal actually comes second. You, your team, and your ability to create curiosity in the first 30 seconds is literally going to determine whether you get the next 30 seconds to talk about what you thought was the most important thing.”
  • (05:12) Marcin: "I literally just made a connection to a guy that has $300 million AUM to another guy doing a development... He took that meeting with that other guy just because of the way I framed both of them to each other."
• Translation: People back people—credibility, curiosity, and the way you frame yourself matter more than the raw numbers of the deal.
• If you have no experience, "go raise your credibility before you raise capital." This can mean working under or alongside operators with a track record—even for free.
  • (06:25) Marcin: "I will deliver coffee, I will park cars... whatever is required just to be in that room."

2. Marcin's Backstory: Immigrant Roots and Grit (07:42)

• Born in communist Poland, smuggled to Germany by his grandfather, landed in Canada at age 6.
• Early scarcity and adversity led to a “no plan B, no entitlement” attitude: "Whatever you do has to work because there's no margin of error."
• Almost became a narcotics agent or lawyer; pivoted to real estate after reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

3. The First Real Estate Deal (10:16–14:10)

• Bought his first property at 20 or 21; made every classic mistake: trusted an underinformed realtor, overpaid, underestimated expenses, negative cash flow, poor renovations.
• Still made money—demonstrates “time heals wounds” principle in real estate.
  • (13:32) Marcin: “Bought it for $200K, sold it for $280K. Today, it’s worth over $1.2 million. Sometimes the biggest regret is selling.”
  • (14:10) Brandon: “If you hold long enough, you cannot lose.”

4. Breaking In: Networking, Volunteering, and Working for Free (14:47)

• Marcin hustled into the big leagues by volunteering at industry events, being omnipresent, and eventually working at a firm with Ken McElroy (co-author with Robert Kiyosaki).
• Helped raise hundreds of millions for US real estate during the 2008–2010 window, learning capital raising from the ground up (even before Zoom or digital pitching).

5. Lessons on Building a Team, Hiring, and Leadership (25:19)

• The transition from employee to entrepreneur is a “dark time”—cash flow dries up, team needs are different, leadership is a skill to be learned.
  • (27:42) Marcin/Jim Collins (Good to Great): "When things go well, look outward; when things go bad, look inward."
• Hiring: First hire for a visionary/salesperson is a high-level operator/assistant to handle non-revenue tasks.
• On Partnerships: Biggest mistake is giving away early equity (especially 50/50 splits) without deep "wallet checks" and honest alignment of commitment, skills, financial runway, and expectations.
  • (30:05) Marcin: "The most expensive equity you give away will be the first equity you ever give away."

6. Raising Money: Syndications vs. Funds; Processes & Pitfalls (44:37–50:47)

Legal Basics:

• Raising money is regulated—understand exemptions (506b, 506c), accredited investor rules. Can't just blast a raise on Instagram unless it's legally set up.
• (44:37) Marcin: "If you want a black van with lights to show up... don't follow the rules."

Syndication vs. Fund:

• Syndication: One deal, one capital raise, easier sell (“the building is the product”). Used by many even at large scale.
• Fund: “Blind pool” of money for multiple deals, more flexibility and speed, but harder to raise unless you have deep trust and track record.
  • (49:22) Advice: Consider tiered structures in a blind fund to offer better terms to early investors, then shift as fund fills.

How to Raise When You Don’t Have the Deal (38:36, 49:22)

• Package yourself (“movie trailer” style) as the differentiator—your unfair advantages, your track record, your clarity about why you/your team/your offer matter.
• Build a “Fast 50” (inner circle) and “Target 500” (broader prospective investors). Outreach before you have a deal.
• Use the EASY framework: Exclusive, Abundance, Scarcity, Your allocation.
  • Exclusive: Unique aspects of your deal/offering.
  • Abundance: Show you have many options/investors.
  • Scarcity: Make allocation/time limited.
  • Your allocation: Frame as an opportunity for them, not a one-way need.

On Legal Fees and Minimum Raise Size

• Budget legal fees at ~1–1.5% of capital raised. For a $5M raise, expect $50K for legal.
• Generally, don’t structure a syndication or fund unless you’re raising at least seven figures (“otherwise, the legal eats up the deal”).

7. Communication: Investor Pitching Mistakes (52:55)

• Fatal mistake is using too much jargon and overcomplicating pitch decks.
  • (52:55) Marcin: “They talk in gobbledygook jargon… I always speak at a grade five level… 100 grand comes in, my goal in five years is to give you back 150 or 200.”
• If you can’t explain the deal with a blank sheet of paper in <2 minutes, you don’t understand it or it’s too complex.
• Only build heavy data rooms for institutional/family office investors.

8. Vetting & Managing Investors (57:55)

• Grade investors (scores 1–3 based on mentality, not just check size).
• Use upfront framing in meetings: “If this is a fit—great. If not, that’s okay.” This sets boundaries and allows for “off-boarding” misfit investors early.

9. Market Outlook: Coming Distress and Opportunity (66:32)

• Billions/trillions in short-term debt coming due in the next 24 months (expect distress).
• Lenders are quietly hiring for BOVs (Broker’s Opinion of Value), foreshadowing more REO (bank-owned) assets.
• Huge PE funds still on the sidelines (“dry powder”)—opportunity on the horizon for cash buyers and well-prepared investors.
  • (73:26) Marcin: “If you’re new, don’t be scared of these things. Pay attention to them. I started in the GFC and developed muscles I’m grateful for now.”

10. Action Plan for Raising $1M with No Contacts (61:39)

• Focus on finding an amazing deal first, tie it up, then use the deal to drive capital raising.
• “Until you have seven figures in the bank, don’t worry about cash flow. Focus on liquidity and building your base.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• (04:41) Marcin Drozdz: "The number one mistake everybody makes raising capital is they think the deal comes first… the deal actually comes second."
• (06:25) Marcin: "Go raise your credibility before you raise capital."
• (27:42) Marcin: “A level 5 leader, when things go well, looks outward. When things go badly, they look inward.”
• (30:05) Marcin: "The most expensive equity you give away will be the first equity you ever give away."
• (38:36) Marcin: "I'm a big believer: dig your well before you're thirsty."
• (52:55) Marcin: "If your clients understood this stuff, they'd probably be active real estate investors. I always try to say: 100 grand comes in, my goal is to give you back 150 or 200."
• (74:48) Marcin: "Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. Just having the mentality of ‘what is in the way becomes the way’ is congruent with everything I do."
• (78:01) Marcin quoting Zig Ziglar: "You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great."
• (81:25) Marcin: "I started auditing my time like I audit my investments… if you're not intentional with your time or your money, it just disappears."
• (83:02) Marcin on legacy: "I have a three year old daughter and hopefully more little ones to come. I want my kids to look back at anything I've done and be like, that was my dad."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:41 – Marcin’s #1 piece of advice on raising capital; why people matter more than the deal.
• 06:25 – Advice for those with no track record: raise credibility first.
• 07:42 – Immigrant roots and the impact of early adversity.
• 10:16 – Marcin’s very first (messy) real estate deal.
• 14:47 – How Marcin hustled his way into big deals via volunteering and networking.
• 25:19 – Lessons learned in building a team, hiring, and the painful move from employee to entrepreneur.
• 27:42 – What it means to truly be a leader (Jim Collins principle).
• 30:05 – Dangers of giving away early equity/partnership.
• 38:36 – Raising capital before you need it and how to position yourself.
• 44:37 – Legal basics of soliciting investors and differences between syndications and funds.
• 52:55 – How to pitch (“grade 5” clarity), and the #1 rookie mistake.
• 61:39 – How to raise $1M from scratch: “find a killer deal and assign, don’t just chase dollars.”
• 66:32 – Marcin’s outlook on coming market opportunities/distress.
• 74:48 – Book recommendations: Obstacle is the Way, Principles, Awareness.
• 78:01 – Favorite quote (“You don’t have to be great to start…”)
• 81:25 – Best recent habit/routine: Audit your time with intention.

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Resource & Contact Links

• Guest website: marcindrozdz.is
• Free Capital Raising Community: School group (“Capital Connectors” on Skool – free, no paid course upsell)
• Marcin’s Instagram: Tips, scripts, and more

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Final Takeaways

• Raising capital is first and foremost about people and credibility—not just numbers and deals.
• Build skill and reputation by proximity to those further along (“Raise credibility before raising capital”).
• Partnerships and team-building require self-awareness, honest (and financial) alignment, and hard-won leadership.
• The real estate market is about to inflect—with major distress and opportunity. Those who are prepared, liquid, and credible will thrive.
• “Audit your time as much as your investments; be intentional.”

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Transcript

[A]

Cam Cathcart, man. What's up, dude?

[B]

Dude, what is up? How you doing?

[A]

I'm all right, man. But did you hear about the fight I got in the other day? No.

[C]

Tell me about it.

[A]

There was literally this group of, like, traveling circus, you know, performers, and they were, like, just picking on my kids. I went over and fought them. I won really quick, though, because I went right for the juggler.

[C]

Pretty decent, right?

[A]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how good was that dad joke I.

[B]

Would give you for a dad joke? That's a seven or eight.

[A]

All right, all right. I want to buy for the jugular. Speaking of going for the jugular, today's episode is going to hit you hard, right? That's. That's a good transition right there. It's going to hit you hard because today we're talking about raising millions of dollars for your real estate deals, whether you want to raise money on your first. You're going to do a single family flip, whether you're going to go buy an $800 million apartment complex and everything in between. Today you're going to learn how to raise money from a gentleman who. That is what he has done his whole career, raise money for both real estate and businesses. And. And he actually teaches that. He's actually teaching at the REI summit, which is coming up here June 1st through 3rd. And so we brought him on ahead of time here to just talk about raising capital. So then if you're at the conference.

[C]

You can go learn even more.

[A]

Which, by the way, if you're going to be at the conference, please get your ticket now. Prices are going up every week. Just go to reisummit2025.com, give me an Austin, Texas, June 1st through 3rd.

[C]

I'm going to be there.

[A]

Cam is going to be there. Gonna be there.

[B]

It's good. Brandon said that he will buy everybody.

[A]

A drink, Every single person who is on this podcast. Today, I'm gonna buy a drink of water. It's gonna be me.

[B]

I'm gonna get the most expensive drink.

[A]

Yeah, you're gonna get the Shirley Temple or something. And that's what you drink, right? You're a Shirley Temple kind of guy.

[B]

I'm a Shirley Temple guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm a Coke. I love a good Coca Cola.

[A]

Oh, do you just.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Yes. McDonald's.

[A]

Coke. I was just gonna say McDonald's. Coca Cola hits different, man. It's.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

If it's the French fries you eat, then you get the McDonald's. Yeah, the Coke. I don't know, but it's.

[C]

Dude, fantastic.

[B]

I. I got asked the other day what. This has nothing to do with the podcast, but I got asked, like, my last meal, what would it be? And I love, like, steak. I love lobster. But a double quarter pounder with cheap with cheese meal with a large Coke in McDonald's is one of my favorite meals that there is. I don't eat it that much because I don't want to be 350 pounds, but I love it.

[C]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I grew up on the filet of fish. You know the filet o fish. Give me that fish. And then every year at Lent, like around Lent, they would have. It was a discount. Yeah, it was like a dollar. On Friday, if you bought a meal.

[B]

You'D get it, get one for a dollar. So I'd go and get the quarter pounder with cheese meal or double quarter pound with cheese meal, and then they'll throw on a filet of a dollar.

[A]

No talk about McDonald's all day long.

[B]

We should do a podcast on McDonald's because all I have eaten some McDonald's in my life.

[A]

Oh, me too. That was a lot of joy came from my young McDonald's age. One time, random fact. I've never told a story on a podcast before. And then we're going to get to today's episode. But one time, they had a contest to win a TV at my local McDonald's and my mom won. And I think they still use that TV to this day. Like this big old 36 inch, like, big fat TV that weighed 2,000 pounds. Like the big fat. Yeah, back before they were like the skinny TVs. It was a. It was a big TV and my mom won.

[C]

So, you know, she's kind of a big deal.

[A]

Speaking of a big deal, this episode's a big deal. We're going to get to talking about how to raise capital. Marston, who is our guest today, Marston Droves, he talks a lot about, like, counterintuitive ways to raise money. In other words, stuff that most people aren't talking about when it comes to raising money. You know, I always say, if you have a deal, money will find you. He's got a very different approach. Listen for that. We talk about hiring people, bringing in partners. Who's your first hire you should have when you're trying to scale your business? And then we just like probably the last hour of the show, Cam and I just go back and forth, just peppering them with every question we can think of about raising money. You guys are Gonna love it. That was fun. That. Yeah, that was fun. So, that and more coming up next. Marcin Droz, man, welcome to the podcast. Good to see you.

[C]

Appreciate that. I'm super excited, dude. I, I've been up all night waiting for this podcast, man. I'm excited here. Let's do it.

[A]

Good, man. Well, I'm pumped. I, I, I'll introduce you in just a minute, but I want to start with this big question. You're a guy who teaches people. I mean, you raised, you raised what, more than $300 million. You teach people how to raise money. You understand the game of raising money. So now that I have you captive here, what is your number one piece of advice you have for people who want to start raising money for their real estate deals?

[C]

So the number one mistake everybody makes raising capital is they think the deal comes first, the deal actually comes second. Literally, you, your team, and your ability to, like, create curiosity in the first 30 seconds is literally going to determine whether you get the next 30 seconds to talk about what you thought was the most important thing.

[A]

I love that, man.

[B]

So the, the raising money is 100% about you and not the deal?

[C]

100% I literally just made this morning. I literally just made a connection to a guy that has 300 million aum to another guy doing a development. He can write the entire check. He took that meeting with that other guy just because of the way I framed both of them to each other. That of itself, that's the power play. That's the capital raise. Everything else has got to be true. You got to have your team, you got to have everything else in play, and you can't be, you know, some con artists doing deals. But, but look, a lot of people are doing good business. Like, there's a lot of good business people out there. That's not enough. So the hook, the, the incentive, the positioning, the authority that, you know, I've been at it 20 years now, honestly, like, if I'd known that 20 years ago, man, I would have saved myself, like, 19 of those years. Yeah.

[B]

So I got a question for you then. So I have people all the time that, like, I want to get into real estate, but I don't have the money for it, or I want to find a deal first, and then I can start raising money. So, like, to somebody that, that is just starting, would you tell them, like, start raising money or start, like, working those relationships well before you found that deal?

[C]

So if you have no experience and no track record, you need to do what I did when I first started go and convince people with a track record and credibility to take you on literally by whatever means necessary. I mean a lot of people don't know this, but 20 years ago I started in the business working under Ken Macro MC companies. They're 2 billion AUM today. 20 years ago there were a couple hundred million bucks but I decided right then and there that I was like I am going to work with these guys. I, I will deliver coffee, I will park cars, I will clean door, hand, I will do whatever the hell is required just to be in that room. And, and, and so for somebody who doesn't have experience or track record, go raise your credibility before you raise capital. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Really good stuff. Well, speaking of your story and get in with Ken McElroy and all that, let's go back and, and learn more about how you got into that world of, of real estate investing at such a high level. I want to know about your early deals and all that. So let me just start by this. I know you again as a guy who's raised hundreds of millions of dollars. I know he's a real estate investor. I know you've bought businesses. I'd love to know a little bit about that. I, I, I know you're at least Canadian now right? Not. But you immigrated from somewhere else. I want to hear a little bit about that. But take us back before who you are today. Take us back further. Who was Marson?

[C]

Oh man. Marson was born in Poland during communism. Marson? Yeah. Marson's father got arrested for smuggling corn with a C just so there's no mispronunciation. Corn border. So corn. Right. And he went, he was going to go to jail for 10 years because it was Poland was, was under Russian communist rule back then. You couldn't have a business. So my dad got caught at the border with corn and he was importing a lot of it. So they were going to send him to jail for 10 years. So he and my mom, literally that night they ran off to East Germany through the border because we were a border town on the border there and left me with my grandpa. And then my grandpa tried to legally get me out to see my parents. I didn't see my parents till I was four. Um, and then finally, true story. He snuck me out in the trunk of his car out into German, out into Germany and then we finally came to North America when I was six. So you know, when you grow up like that, you grow up with no plan B, no entitlement, no, you know, whatever you do has to work because there's no margin of error. Right. So you just work things until they work.

[A]

That's awesome. And, well, I'm glad you got safe to North America. Settled in Canada. What's up? How did you end up in Canada?

[C]

You know, we. We were. We applied to Canada. Us, Australia, England. Canada responded first. And again, we weren't. We didn't exactly have a lot to negotiate with back then. We just had to get the heck out of Dodge. Right, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, Makes sense. Did you go to school for private equity and raising business and all that, or how did you navigate through school into real estate?

[C]

Yeah, it's funny that you ask. So I initially went to school. Initially, I was either going to become a narcotics agent, like a police officer, or a lawyer. So I did the legal track, and I did two years of school. Perfect grades, everything was fantastic, but I was bored out of my mind. And while I was in school, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I'm sure you've heard the story maybe once or twice, read the book. I'm like, I can do this. And, you know, despite me screwing up everything on my first deal, like, everything you could possibly screw up. I like check, check, check. I still made like 30 or 40 grand. I was like, man, I could do this again. And while I was in school, I, you know, legal, private equity, the finance stuff, I started looking at that stuff and I, you know, tried initially commercial real estate. Worked at a brokerage. Figured out I liked the technical stuff, but I didn't like selling deals. I wanted to do the capital side. And then I started going to networking events, and I eventually talked my way into a PE firm.

[A]

That's. That's awesome, man. All right, so that first deal where you said you made 30 grand, walk us through that. What did you buy? Where'd you find it? Yeah, let's hear about your mistakes.

[C]

That was a mess, dude. That was a. That was an absolute mess. I. So I know no one's ever had this experience before, but my real estate agent was of, like, completely. And I don't know, never. I was. I was. I was unique in that, right? And this is like 20 years ago. And he tells me, oh, don't worry. This house, you know, you're going to pay X for it. Your mortgage is Y, and your rent is going to be like a billion dollars. And I'm just like, okay, sounds amazing, right? So I buy this house. I immediately learn what negative cash flow is, because my mortgage, I don't know if it was 2,800. This is a lot of money. 20 years, it was a lot of money, right? But even now it's a lot. Right. And I was negative like $800 a month. So I'm literally working like $800 20 years ago is like, anyways, I, I'm literally working like extra. And I'm trying to do sales jobs and everything. So I'm negative cash flow. And then I have another brilliant idea. I'm like, I know, I'll get my buddy and I to move into the property instead. So we're even more negative cash flow.

[A]

Perfect.

[C]

So we end up living in this thing. We have no money left. So we're living on like lawn furniture and whatever it is and you know, crazy 21 year old kids, whatever. And it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was a crazy time. But we started doing renovations around the house. I then figured out that you actually need trades people like light. This sounds so obvious today. But I was just hiring people to come do renos like off Craigslist and stuff. And it's just, they're putting holes in walls. It's just like I said, I screwed up everything. I didn't negotiate. When I bought the house, I bought the first house I toured. That's something else I haven't told you. Literally the real. Yeah. Because the real estate agents, like, this is a good house. I'm like, you're right, it is a good house. You know, just, you have no idea.

[A]

It's a good reminder that most real estate agents have. Yeah. No idea what they're talking about. It comes to investing.

[C]

No.

[A]

Yeah, they, they, they look at this cute kitchen. Could you just imagine you and your little kids. No, I can't because I'm not going to live here.

[C]

Like, right.

[A]

Not like all they can see is what they do 99 of the time, which is just, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Mom and dad and kids.

[C]

And again, Brandon, like I was, I was, I think it was 21, I was 20 or 21 years old. Like I was young when I bought this house. Right. So, you know, we had the money, we had the down payment, whatever it was. But like I, I assumed that he was a good person in real estate, but he was just a great sales guy and I didn't know the difference. Right. So that was for me at that time. And yeah. Bought the house. Like I said, negative cash flow. Even worse. Negative cash flow. But I was lucky because the market was still, you know, making its way up and we did do some renos and eventually we Sold it. And I think I made like 35 or 40 grand on it after everything. So I was like. And that was like in 18 months. And I'm like, man, like, it wasn't easy. But despite the 20 or 30 grand in mistakes I made, I still made a lot of money on it. And then I'm in school at the same time. I'll never forget this. I'm finishing up classes and I get this check for this house and I'm just like, I'm going to make this in like a year. Like, I don't want to. This, this doesn't sound like such a good idea. So anyway, one thing led to another and yeah, that was. I was hooked.

[A]

Very cool.

[B]

And was that in Canada or was that down in Phoenix?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that was, that was up in Canada. So outside of Toronto, there's a really nice neighborhood called Oakville, which is a really. It's actually a very now. It's super. Actually, another mistake I made is I should have held that property because I bought it for 200 something and I sold it for 280. Today, that property is one to $1.4 million. You know, so, you know, and it's just, you're a kid, like, you just, you don't know what you don't know. And I had nobody pulling me aside and saying, hey, kiddo, like, why don't you just refi this thing, you know, eat the negative, two, three hundred dollars a month or whatever would have been at the time and, you know, figure it out.

[A]

But yeah, I mean, that's the beauty of real estate, right? It's like, you hang out long enough and like, it generally always is a regret to sell, you know, like every deal I've ever sold is worth more today than when I sold it. Now, there's reasons to sell. I'm not saying you should never sell, but man, like, time healed a lot of wounds. When it comes to real estate, you.

[B]

Cannot lose if you hold it long enough. And you, I mean, it's just amazing. So then tell me this. So you were in Canada at the time, but then you got hooked up with Ken McElroy and Robert Kiyosaki. How, how, how did that transition happen?

[C]

Yeah, so I was like, you guys going to networking events and conferences and, dude, I was hopping on planes and flying and paying for conferences I had no business paying for. Like, you know, today they're 2,500 bucks. Back then, they were still 2500 bucks. So 2, 500 bucks, it was a lot more money, right? And I'm putting everything on credit cards. I'm going to know if you guys remember, but Trump used to do the learning annex thing across. Oh yeah, Bill Zanker and all this stuff. So I'd go volunteer at the, the Kiyosaki booth and I'd go, you know, follow all these other guys around. I just, I just wanted to be in the space. And by doing that they saw this, you know, young, 19, 20 year old kid, 21 year old kid, at the same events all the time. And eventually I ended up doing a deal at a shop where we worked with Ken McCoy. So Ken McCoy, you know him and Robert, the whole, they did the ABCs of real estate investing and whatnot. And Ken at the time, this is back in 0809 when part was 770-8788 when the market finally crashed, Ken came up to Canada and his theory was brilliant. He's like, hey, the dollar up in Canada was a $5, $10 compared to the US dollar. And we never had a crash up in Canada. So Canadians confidence in real estate was like this, whereas America was, it was what it was like, right? So Ken came up and we did a deal where we ended up raising, I think it was 200 or $250 million for him in a very short period of time and maybe two years. And he bought up a whole bunch of different stuff in Arizona and Texas and you know, just, just getting to see how Ken and Ross, how they do deals, how they put buildings together, how they dec. Buy, when to build. I was literally just talking to him this morning and like the thesis that they had of like when the tide goes in, they like, they just how they move was, you know, I'm in my early 20s. I remember the first building we were looking at was 220something units. I'm like that's a lot of toilets. Like just you just like you're trying to put it into concept, right? So.

[A]

All right, so you started raising capital for them right away. Did you have to work? Did you have to, you know, sweep floors and all that first? Was there any kind of intro into that?

[C]

I, so it's funny, I showed up at the office and they had these offering documents and you got to remember reg A plus and 506B, 506C. All that stuff didn't exist back then. Still like that's how far goes right up in Canada we had different rules and regulations. We had these other documents called offering memorandums and these other documents. And I remember walking to the office and Just reading These things are 2, 300 pages long. And if you want anything to go to bed with, I mean, one of those documents will put you down right away, man. So I walk in, first day on the job. Here, kid, have a look at this. I'm like, sure. Do you want me to weigh these things? What do you want me to do with these things? So we're reading these documents, trying to figure it out, and then there was an opportunity where they had a bunch of investor dinners. Pre Covid. Pre zoom. Pre, you know, the chicken dinners, the hotels, the whole thing, right? So, hey, kid, you want to come on the road? I'm like, yeah, sure. Where are we going? This city. This city, this city. So I'm living out of a suitcase, doing all the events, all the pitches, all that stuff. And you know, in the meantime, just figuring out what everything was. And it was, you know, you're drinking from a fire hose. Like you get in front of 10, 20, 30 million dollar assets at that age. It was, it was, it was amazing advice.

[A]

Oh, sorry, Cam, go ahead.

[B]

No, I was just gonna say I think it's so amazing, and for anybody that's listening to this, I think it's so amazing to focus on or important to focus on is to the amount of, of growth that you had during that phase of your life. Going and working for somebody like that. You probably couldn't have found that anywhere.

[C]

Else in the world.

[B]

And I, I hear from people all the time, like, I want to get into real estate. I want to do this. And it's like, go find a job in real estate. You are, you will learn. There's, there's no way that you can't learn. And, and, and so I just love that story of, of going down there saying, hey, I'll, I'll clean, clean the bathrooms if I have to. I just want to be here.

[C]

Well, and the one thing I'll share with you guys, so, so, Cameron, for context, I never asked how much I would be paid when I took that dick. I never asked. I never even asked for anything. I, I thought they made a mistake when they said yes. So I'm just like, I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna desk somewhere, I'm gonna get like a routine. And then like a month or two later I'll be like, hey, like, so what are we doing? And literally it took about a month and a half because there's just so much growth in this company where I'm like, I walk into the CFO's office, I'm like, hey, do I get, like, a paycheck or something? He looks at me, laughs. He goes, we're not paying you. I go, well, not yet. That's why I'm here. And he just starts laughing. But he goes, why didn't you say anything earlier? And I'm like, I just wanted to make sure you guys didn't make a mistake. So I just wanted to stick around for a little bit. He just starts laughing. But. But that was my attitude. Now I understand. Look, you can say, well, Marston, that was easy for you. Your early 20s. You had no obligations. Totally agree. So if you're in your early 20s, take those risks. But if you're in your 30s or 40s, you can. Or even 60s, you can still show that level of initiative. To whatever extent you can, depending on where you're at in life, you can still do this well.

[B]

And a great example of showing that initiative, I invest in St. Louis, and I had a guy that reached out to me who lives in St. Louis. He's in his late 40s and is just getting into real estate. And he. He just was like, anything you need, I will do it. I will do it for free. Just let me know. And a lot of times people will say that, and. And almost it creates more work for me. And so a lot of times I don't think about it. But it just so happened that the next day, I needed two houses to be walked that we were looking at purchasing, and I needed just somebody to go take pictures. And so he got to go take pictures of those houses. And then him and I talked for 40 minutes on the phone about it, but he told me. He's like, I. That was the most amazing experience any other time. Like, I. I will just run and walk houses for you if you need me to walk houses.

[A]

And.

[B]

And that's that initiative there. It's, like, for free. Reached out to me, said, I'll do anything you need. And now I've got him going and walking houses for me.

[C]

Yeah, I have a guy. True story. He's been with me now 15, 14 years. He initially came to my office when I. When I left the PE Firm and I started out my own thing. He initially came to the office because on a joke, we were at a social event a few days earlier, and he's like, hey, can I come work for you? And I. He had no experience. He was 19 at the time. And I just. I made it. Like, I was polite, but I was like, yeah, sure, if you want to come by and move some furniture. Around. I was totally kidding. That was on a Friday. Monday morning, I'm at the office, this kid showed up ready to move shit around. So I'm just like, okay, well, I guess like, we could do this, we could do this. And he stuck around the entire week. So anyways, fast forward to today. He works with me. He's been involved in raising over, I think 70 or 80 million dollars. He's, he's helped buy multiple businesses, multiple apartment buildings, done due diligence. He makes a very, very comfortable amount of money on an annual basis and no formal credentials in the space other than the fact that he was willing to show up, sweep floors, move boxes, do whatever. It was he had, the attitude. It was, it was, it was amazing.

[A]

I love that. Hey Martin, let's go the rest of your through your story. And then I want to go kind of backtrack into how do we actually raise money for real estate deals, whether it's a brand newbie or whether it's somebody trying to build a billion dollar empire. But let's first go back, kind of round out your story. So what came next? I mean, you started raising money for them. I'm assuming you're not still doing it for them or are you still like, where, where'd you go next?

[C]

Yeah, well, Ken and I, I mean, I'm looking at deals with him right now. We're looking at JVs and all kinds of stuff, but yeah, so when, when I, when I left the firm, I worked there for a couple years and then, you know, in typical 20 some odd year old fashion, you're like, well, this isn't that hard. I can do this. Yeah, it was considerably harder, right? Well, it was considerably harder than I thought. But it took me about a year after I left to figure out how to create my own fund. And I ended up putting together an eight figure equity fund to buy in Arizona. So this is now 2010. It was late 2010, 11, maybe even early 12. We put together an eight figure equity fund. It was a blind pool. So we literally said, hey, here's the thesis, here's the market, here's the opportunity. We don't have any deals yet, but here's what we think we can find. We put together an eight figure equity fund and we bought Medical Plazas in. It was in Mesa, Chandler, Goodyear, all MSAs outside of Phoenix. And these were, if you guys remember back then, you still had good businesses, especially people that were getting paid by Medicare, Medicaid, a lot of these prosthetics manufacturers, hearing audiology, Whatever it was, they still had their locations and they were the checks were clearing from the government, but the rest of the strip mall was empty. So because these strip malls were all valued on noi, I was basically paying 20, 25 cents on the dollar for these buildings. It was nothing. The only thing was you had to buy cash because there was no financing you couldn't finance. It literally didn't exist. You get laughed out the door. Even Fannie Freddie was part of that. There was no financing. So we bought cash, waited a few years and that was so 20, 13, 14, 15 6, 15, 16. We ended up selling. In hindsight, we should have kept it longer, but we'd already seen such a bump that we took our chips off the table after that. Brandon, I was telling you and Cameron earlier, I was like, well, this real estate thing is pretty simple, so why don't I expand that to operating businesses? So I started doing corporate advisory stuff for guys that were doing equipment leasing, consumer services businesses, tech businesses. And it was like a corporate finance shop where I had clients raised well into multiple nine figures in private capital for different businesses. Because the skill the of packaging your offer and packaging your deal was the same. It was just a different asset class. And then, yeah, you know, Covid hit. I wanted to simplify my life. My wife and I had a daughter and I'm like, you know, real estate. Yeah, thank you. Real estate is just the thing that I don't. Doesn't keep me up at night. You know, it's boring, which is great. And some of you newer investors are going to learn that you want boring in your life. You don't want the excitement that you get initially. You want that to go away eventually because you don't want to live your life like, like that. But yeah, and just so, so real estate's been the thing.

[A]

So let, let. I want to go back to that idea. You left. You left MC Companies to go do your own thing. What did that look like in terms of team structure? Like, did you go hire a bunch of employees? Did you bring in a bunch of partners? Did you meet some people? Did you join another team? Like, how did that. How did that put together? Because I know like trying to make the jump from like an employee, whether it's at a real estate company or just something totally different into hey, now I'm doing my own thing is something that a lot of people struggle with. So can you walk us through that kind of journey?

[C]

What'd that look like? Well, I was that person because I had no context. Right. So I thought that the money that I raised and the things that I helped build happened, let's say, disproportionately to my involvement. Right. So, because. Because I had no context when I left. I had a really rude awakening in my mid-20s about systems, processes, people, policies, all. All these different things. So when I. When I say from when I left to when I actually got my own thing going, it was about a year. And it was a dark time because the cash flow dries up. Your sense of accomplishment dries up because you're not getting those quick hits of, oh, this worked, this worked, this worked, this is great. And that infrastructure wasn't there. So, Brandon, it was. It was. It was a dark time. And I, you know, I initially brought on people. And the other problem I had early days was I assume that everybody thought like me in terms of entrepreneur, you know, having that entrepreneurial bent. And, you know, don't worry, we'll figure it out. No, no, People don't want to hear that stuff. Like, people that are in the employee mentality, they just want to know when they start, when they end, what's expected of them, and, you know, how do I get a raise or how do I make. And for me, I had never been wired that way, and I wrongly assumed that everybody in the world was like me at the time and that. That. So that was. That was a tough year. And that's when I really learned about the importance of becoming a better leader. Because I thought that initially I thought I could just power through everything myself, like I could carry the weight of everything. But, you know, you just. You're. There's. There's an old African proverb. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Right. So, yeah.

[A]

What have you learned about being a better leader in that? Because again, a lot of people, you hear that advice all the time. I got to be a better leader. I need to be a better. A better leader. What does that mean to you? Like, tactically, how does somebody become a better leader?

[C]

So. So the best way is such a good question. The best way I can think about becoming a better leader is. And this is from Jim Collins, in the book Good to Great, a level five leader looks, when things go well, they look outward at the team, and when things go bad, they look inward at themselves. And ultimately, for me, that was pro. Cause in my early mid-20s, that was not the case. As far as I was concerned. I was doing what needed to happen. You guys are all missing the boat here. Here, here, and that was, you know, just, just inexperience. That was just an experience. But as I get older and as things break as they do within a business that scales, my initial inclination now is like my default mode is, okay, well how did, what did I not do or what did I do to allow that set of circumstances to occur? And that drastically changes my perspective and it lets me take ownership over what happened. And then I can hold other people accountable to the same level that I'm holding myself accountable.

[A]

Yeah, it's really good, man. Who do you think is the first hire someone should make when they're going out on their own?

[C]

So for somebody like me, Brandon, from seeing you on stage, for somebody like me and somebody like you who's really good in of front front of people, it's really important to get somebody behind the scenes that keeps you organized. Whether it's like your catch all, be all, bookkeeping, accounting receipts, commitments, birthdays, assistant, making sure you don't forget the flowers, making sure you pick up the milk, whatever the heck's going on, just get that stuff off your plate. Because, because mentally that is the most taxing thing. For somebody who's good in front of people and for somebody who prefers to be in the background. You need to find somebody that you can partner with that is comfortable being that person. Because I can tell you it requires so much energy to get anything off the ground that, that the person that's great in front of people, they need to have that person that just takes away everything that's not revenue generating, whatever that means, in whatever capacity.

[B]

So tell me this. With finding that great operator, especially like when you were just starting, how do, how do you pay somebody like that when you know that you need it, but you are not making enough income to provide two salaries.

[C]

So I'll give you two answers and I think they're both going to be appropriate for, for two different totally reasons. Number one, the most expensive equity you give away will be the first equity you ever give away. And the biggest mistake everybody makes, including myself, is you partner with somebody like, hey, you're a good dude, I'm a good dude. Like, you're good at this stuff. I'm good at this stuff. Like It'll just be 50, 50. That is the most expensive mistake you'll ever make in your YouTube.

[A]

I've done that. I did even worse. I said, I said, you take a third, you take a third and I'll take a third. We'll just all split it three ways. That's how it.

[C]

And then I'll do all the work and you guys can hang out. Sounds good. Let's do it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Why?

[A]

Let me. Can you expand on that? Why is that maybe a terrible idea?

[C]

Well, in my experience, it's a terrible idea for multiple reasons. Number one, not everybody sees the world the way you do. So the things you're willing to sacrifice and forego for whatever period of time, you need to have a really honest conversation with your potential partner or partners as to whether they're on board for the same thing. Because nothing is ever six months that you think is six months. It'll be two years. Nothing's ever going to be two years, it'll be five. So the conversations have to be honest and candid about how much dry powder someone has and how much capacity they have for something. Also a wallet check. If I'm going to partner with somebody, I need to make sure that you are not broke. And it doesn't mean that I can't work with you. It just means I'm not going to partner with you because I can't have you squirrely energy, worried about how you're going to pay your mortgage because then your head's not in the game. I may hire you, I may contract you, and actually that might be a better thing for where you're at in your career right now anyway. So those are important things for me. I mean, when you buy a building brand, I mean, the net worth statements, they come out, right? I mean, you have to make sure you know where everyone's at and there's no shame in figuring life out, but you just need to know where people fit. So that's one, two is the other reason why it's a big problem, at least in my opinion. Why it was a big problem is because not everybody is going to commit the same amount of energy and time and focus. Focused. So if they have other businesses or other interests, or if, for example, you're in your early 20s and you have no kids and no wife or no husband, you're going to put in a different amount of effort just because it's sheer time than somebody who, like, I'm 40 now, I have a daughter, I have, you know, I, I have a different interpretation of what working hard is today than I did when I was 25. So that's an important discussion. And then number three, and this goes back to the first thing, Brandon, is you assume that they have certain skills that in my case I learned that they do not. And then when you have a boil over why things aren't Working and you're married at the hip in such a way. I mean, I. So this brings up another thing. I had a partner in one of my first businesses that I thought was good at ABC because he had a job in the corporate world that would suggest that he was good at abc. Well, there's a lot of waste in the corporate world. And, you know, I don't think you would have been able to succeed at the same level in the. Knowing what I know today. But. And then part two of that mistake was I'm just, I'm just unloading this place there.

[B]

No, this is good.

[C]

But, but another. And he's a good dude. He's still a good dude. But the pro. The other problem with him is most of us. And I did this, most of us partner with people that are too much like ourselves. And that was my case with him, is that he was a lot like me, minus the sales skills, which was a double negative. So, so, so he had a lot of the same personality skills. Didn't have the organizational skills I thought I was partnering with. Yeah. And, you know, it just, it, it didn't. It, it was a very expensive lesson for. That's.

[B]

That's good. I see a lot of people jump into partnerships way before that they should. And I think one thing that you said that I, I haven't heard many people talk about this, but it's funny because I've ran into this twice where it's like, our values align. We're both hard workers, actually. Our skill sets are complimentary and, and things make sense. But the wallet check, I think, is, is one of the most important parts of this where it's like, I, I have been fortunate enough to build up our real estate portfolio to where I don't need to make money tomorrow. And so when I've started businesses, I'm like, this is a two, three, four year process where we're going to reinvest into the company. And then I've partnered with somebody that's like, no, I, I need, I need a distribution every single month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and that all of a sudden, even if everything else aligns, if that doesn't align, you get into trouble. Or if there's a couple hard months in the business and they're like, well, I got to go get a job. And so the wallet check, I think, is something that a lot of people don't talk about, but it's really, really important.

[C]

A good way to mitigate that, Cameron, is to kind of flush out the BS is both partners. If it's a 50, 50 situation is you could say, okay, cool, no problem. So why don't we do this? I'll put in 50 grand, you put in 50 grand and then every month we'll pull out five grand each. And then, you know, you have a Runway of 12 months or eight months or whatever that is, and it flushes out a, do they have the liquidity, B, do they have the intent? And C, you also build some trust in that regard as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's really good, man. So let's, let's go to the end of your story. Where are you at today with real estate? What are you doing with real estate? What are you buying? What do you like? What's that look like today?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Well, so my world has changed a little bit in the last, call it three months because before, before Trump got into office and by the way, I think what he's doing, a lot of the things is fantastic. And from a business perspective, the challenge is we used to raise, I say used to in a present sense, raise a lot of money from Canadians that want to invest in the US Currently, that is not exactly a very popular proposition as you can probably, given what, what is happening with the tariffs and whatnot. So we had a fund that we were just about to launch here, but you know, I think we're having to just kind of hold off to see what happens with the, the tariffs and all that other stuff. So at this point we're putting to, we're going to be launching a new fund on, on the state side, just directly in US Side. We're going to do a, a fund or fund, a fund model. We're just working through the economics there. I've got really good deal flow from people like Ken Macroy and other people like him that I've gotten to know over the years. So we're just kind of working through that. And yeah, the other thing that's keeping me really busy and I, I really enjoy doing it is, you know, I've taught, you know, over the years, I've taught thousands of RIAs and fund managers how to raise capital, how to build their books. So we, I, I enjoy it. That's kind of like my, it's like my art form. I, I, I like doing it.

[A]

So are you teaching, I mean, RIAs and all that? Are you seeking just people like, you know, could I have gone to you five years ago and been like, look, I want to build a syndication business, Teach me how to do this? Is that what you're like, is that part of it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the, the biggest. Look, the, the three things most of our clients work with us on is one is actually how to package themselves and their offer to appeal to people before they have an actual deal. That's the biggest problem with syndication is that everybody's using the deal as the crutch. So we reverse engineer that so that you are the reason why people want to get on a call, not because of ABC shiny building. And the second thing is just getting in front of more investors. Biggest challenge people have in real estate is they just don't know how to start conversations, whether in person, marketing, ads, online. I mean, Brandon, I see your stuff, but not everybody can be operating initially at that scale. Right. So it's, there's a thing that you can, you can build up to. And then the third thing is once you go beyond syndicating to creating funds or funds of funds, that's. Yeah, that's well within our wheelhouse. Yeah. Very cool.

[B]

Can I ask you a question? And it really, it's a personal question or for me, three years ago, let's say in like 2021, I'd done about 50 folks, so I knew what I was doing in the, in the real estate industry. And I got presented this incredible opportunity. It was an incredible deal. It was $12 million, but I needed to raise $5 million for it. And at that time I was still. I had only been in this for six to seven months and had been successful in that six, seven months. But I didn't have a ton of friends. I didn't know brand at the time. I couldn't pick up my phone and call somebody. So if you're speaking to that person and they're like, I've got to raise $4 million in the next four months. Would there be any tactical, like here is a three step or four step process to raise that money?

[C]

Yeah, so that, that's actually a really good question. And for context, guys, I'm a big believer in dig your well before you're thirsty. So literally don't wait until you need the money to go raise it. Because when you need something, that's when you pay for it. Whereas if you build that relationship and you guys are, you know, I see what you guys do with yourself. You guys are constantly nurturing and building value and adding all that stuff. Whether you have a deal or not. You're always, you're always kind of staying in touch. So that there's a few steps that I'd go through. The first one is identifying and packaging your unfair advantage. So, in other words, there's a whole bunch of stuff around this. But ultimately, if you look at yourself, if you were to package yourself, like for a movie trailer, for example, what are the things in your life that you could point to that are unique and different and that speak to your value, to your values to who? You, as a person, the kind of things you do, what you stand for, what you don't stand for. Those intangibles are the first thing we're all psychologically scanning for. Like, think about why Superman movies and Iron man movies are so popular. Well, because men see themselves as the hero. So they. They want to be the Tony Stark. They want to be the, you know, the Spider man, the who or the Thor, whoever it is. They. They see the virtues and the values in those people. So if you consciously think about what makes you you, right? Then that. Just presenting that and packaging that now, then you layer that on with, okay, well, what's the market? What's the opportunity? What's my investment thesis? Why am I buying houses in Ohio? Or why am I buying Airbnb in Dallas? You can't Airbnb in Dallas anymore. But Airbnb is, you know, I don't know, Kentucky. Whatever it is that you're doing, right? Like, or storage or whatever it is that you're doing. And then once you've packaged that, the second thing you do is you. You create a list of people that you. You create two lists in my mind. One is your fast 50, which are the 50 people that are closest to you that know, like, and trust you. Forget about whether they have money or not. You just need validation from people in front of other people that you can work with. And then I call it your target 500, which are 500 people that you may not know yet, but you want to build relationships with. And as soon as you have that, you can then start putting together an initial outreach program. By the way, I have all these templates. If you guys want them, we can include them in the show notes. People can literally. It's not. It's not a problem. And then one other thing I'll share with you guys is I have something called an easy method. Easy stands for exclusive. Abundance, scarce in your allocation. So exclusive, what are three to five things about your deal or your thesis that whether I'm a plumber or an investment banker that I'm like, that makes sense. So, for example, we're buying this building for half of what it costs to build. Okay, I get that we're Buying this building and the rents are $300 less than the neighbor. I get that. Hey, we're buying this building or this fund, and it's right across the street from the new VA center that's going to employ 3,000 people. Okay, I get that. Right. Abundance. Demonstrate that you have multiple people to talk to. Hey, Brandon, want to get on the phone with you about this because, you know, we're about to send this out in our newsletter and I know we talked about this was something the kind of thing you wanted to talk about. So, you know, you're demonstrating that you want to work together, but you don't need to work together because you know people like you have options and you want to make sure that people understand that. Next thing is scarcity. You know, two forms. Either time we're closing on certain date or money, we only need a million dollars. Our average client is 200,000. So we only need four or five new clients. So anyways, there's. There's a whole framework around this stuff. But, but it, but the whole point is guys like Brandon, I've seen your. The, the kite model as well. And you know, you guys like, there's keeping really simp and just having feedback loops that go back in a circle and doing that well before you find the deal of a lifetime is probably the best advice I could get.

[A]

So good. That's so good, man. Hey, I want to, I want to ask. I have a whole series of questions around raising money and raising capital. I want to go through a bunch of them. But before I do, though, I want to hear it from this week's show sponsor. Now, one thing we do on the show is that our sponsor money, the profit we make from the podcast goes towards a charity of the guests choosing every week. So where are we sending the money from this week's episode? Who do you want to support?

[C]

Junior Achievement. So Junior Achievement. Yeah, they're a worldwide organization. My wife and I, we, we give to them regularly. They basically support young entrepreneurs in every market. They go into schools, elementary schools primarily, and they create like, entrepreneur days for kids just to learn the basics of, of how to put a pitch deck together, how to put a business together. Can be selling shoes, you can be selling lemonade. It doesn't matter. It's just the concept of figuring out how to, you know, just, just. Just thinking that way.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome, man. Well, we will be sure to do so. And with that said, let's hear from this week's show sponsor. So I know I'm fairly Well off financially. Right. But did you know I still house hack? Like that's right. I've got an extra couple units at my house here in Maui and I decided to actually rent one of them out because, hey, it's like almost 2,000 bucks a month and I'm an investor, so why not? Do you know the first thing I did when I decided to rent that out? I went to turbotenant.com because there I can advertise the unit, screen for potential tenant, sign the state specific lease, get automatic rent payments set up, track my income and expenses, and even communicate with my new tenant via the app. It literally made the process so much easier. So whether you've got, you know, one unit or a ton of units, check out turbotenant.com I love it and I know you will too. Let them know I sent you. All right, we're back. Let's get into raising millions of dollars to fund our real estate deals or, you know, company deals, private, whatever. It's, it's like you said, it's kind of the same game, just different asset classes. So I want to start by asking the legal question. There are legalities around raising money, right? Can you explain some of the. Maybe especially in America, since most of our listeners are American. What can I just go post, I'm raising money. Put a sign on my, on my street, you know, go post on my Instagram, I'm raising money or not? Like, what's the legality around this?

[C]

Well, I mean, if you want to have a black van show up with some lights at the top, you could probably do that. I wouldn't recommend it. Look, capital raising is a regulated space. Whether you're Canada, US or abroad, capital markets are regulated. So it's really important that you follow the rules. This is one set of things you don't want to say I didn't know about because nobody cares. This is one of those things that you need to know. So look, the most common way that most people can raise capital is they raise money from accredited investors. So these are people that have a high net worth. I think about 16 or 17% of American households are high net worth at this point in time. So that's great. And you know, there's other exemptions, friends, family, business associates, things like that. But ultimately, look, make sure, look, look into the different rules. 506B, 506C. But most importantly, just, just spend, you know, spend a few bucks, talk to a lawyer and, and you got, you got to do this, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think people oftentimes see what I've done? Like they say, oh, well, Brandon posted on his Instagram that he's raising money for a deal. Therefore it's okay. They don't realize that. Yeah, we're doing a 506C and we've got the right exemptions filed with the right people. And we do. We're doing all this stuff. Right. So you can't just take what you see and influencer doing online. I see it all the time.

[C]

People just go.

[A]

And that even means to your friends.

[C]

And family on Facebook. Yeah, again, like there's. There, there's. I know Mauricio's got. He's doing a training now on. On syndications and funds. There's a lot of people out there that, that are lawyers, former lawyers that can teach you about the ins and outs and nuances of it. So 100. Take the time, watch a few videos, talk to a few lawyers. Yeah, awesome.

[B]

So tell me, we just talked about syndications and funds.

[C]

What.

[B]

What is the difference between a fund and a syndication?

[C]

Yeah. So let's start with a simpler one. So syndication is you have one transaction, whether you want to buy one building or one business, typically a building in the context of real estate, and you're going out to a group of investors to syndicate the capital for that one deal. So syndications are the favorite for a lot of people that get into real estate because again, they can use the deal as kind of the crutch because it's like, hey, you see this building? It's amazing. Here's why. Da, da da da da. And you're just basically pitching that building, that acquisition as a deal. So that's one way to do it. And by the way, there's no right or wrong whether you syndicate or you do a fund. For example, Ken McRoy, one of my original mentors, he still does syndications. 2 billion AUM, and they syndicate deal by deal, by deal. So you can get to a billion or a hundred million one way or the other. Really just personal preference. Then the other model is the fund model. Now the fund model is. Personally, I prefer the fund model just because again, coming from private equity and doing the things we did. I like the fund model because you can do what's called a blind pool, where it's like, hey, here's the team, here's the management. Here's what we've done, here's what we're capable of. Here's our investment thesis. For example, we love Texas, we love Arizona, we love class B, multifamily. Between this Size and this size because of these reasons. Da, da, da. And we're raising the money because we want to buy X amount of buildings that are going to come out of foreclosure, Whatever the thesis is. Okay, cool, so I can sell that story. Now. Some people say, no, no, no, no, I don't want to invest in that. I want to know the exact building. So that's why there's syndications. And the pros to syndications is, you know exactly what you're buying. The constant syndication is. It's just one asset. Whereas the fund model, as an example, the last building I bought, it was in a fund model. So we were able to raise the money before we had the deal. And because we did that well, I got a $5 million discount on a $16 million asset because I could literally be like, here's the bank account. And psychologically that changes the conversation. Whereas if you're syndicating and you're like, well, here's my escrow deposit and don't worry, we're going to get the money. It's a different negotiation. Right. So again, both work. It's just, you know, do you have any tips for.

[A]

So I've raised, I've raised money in a fund. Obviously. We buy most mobile home parks and funds most of our multifamily. It's kind of mixed. We've done both funds and one off syndications. But even when we do a fund, it's. I've never fully done a blind fund where like, we didn't have at least, at least some of the properties identified. And I find that the more vagueness I have, like the fewer properties I have identified in the fund, the harder it is for me to raise capital. Which makes sense because people like to be able to see, oh, you're buying 1, 2, 3 Main Street. Yeah, I can feel that. Do you have any advice for people like me who maybe do want to raise money but they don't have the deal identified? Like, how do I convince somebody to invest with me when I don't even have the deal?

[C]

Well, so you create. So. So first of all, Brandon, I agree with you having at least one deal identified in the blind, blind pool either. Something. So I've seen a lot of guys where they have a syndication they've owned and they roll it into the fund and that way there's an initial qualifying transaction. So at least people know the kind of deals you're going to do. So I've seen that. And in my case, my initial fund that I did was Literally a blind pool out of the gate. And that was initially tough. So one of the things that somebody like yourself could do in a fund model, again, you got to work with your lawyer to make sure it's all up and up. But what you can do is you can create a tiered structure where, for example, if it's $100 million fund, maybe the economics keep skewing in favor of the GP as you hit every milestone. So the first 25 million, and I'm throwing numbers out there, maybe you do a 9010 split on the first 25 million because there's no assets technically yet. Then on the next 25 million you do a 8515 split. Then on the next 25 million you do 80. So eventually the last 25 million is a 7030 or 75 25. So that's one version you can increase the preferred return you can do. There's all kinds of things you can do, but. Or it could be timing based, like if you're only raising from January to December, every three months, the SKU changes. In terms of the economics, very cool question for you.

[B]

How small is too small to raise money via like a funder syndication?

[C]

Well, so it's an interesting question because if you have no net worth, a hundred grand in the bank sounds like a really good idea. And if you're already 10 million net worth, 100 grand probably isn't going to move the needle for you. So I think it really depends on where someone's at in their journey. That's really what it comes down to. Look, the thing was a Warren Buffett or his partner Charlie Munger said the first a hundred grand is the hardest. Like making and saving a hundred grand, the first hundred is disgustingly difficult because it's just sheer brute force just to get there. Right? So my answer to you is in the context of the deal, how profitable is that transaction? How, how much meat on the bone is there? That the biggest issue that I see in the space because I consult on hundreds of files with our clients. And the biggest issue I see is that clients don't leave enough meat on the bone for themselves and their investors. So they're paying too much for stuff they're not building in their fees. They're grossly underestimating the cost of running the asset, the business or the property. And they're just creating an impossible situation for themselves and their clients. But to give you a direct answer, Cameron, I mean, look, if you're going to be doing a 506B or 506C, I mean, you need to be raising at least seven figures. Otherwise it, you know, Brandon knows this. I mean, the legal fees can add up, right?

[A]

Yeah. What is, can you explain like the legal fees, like, what do you typically see for legal fees on, you know, whatever you're going to go raise? 5 million bucks, $10 million, whatever.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, so a good rule of thumb, and this has always kind of been my guiding star, is you want to build legal typically about 1, 1.5% of total funds raised. So as an example, if you're going to raise $5 million, if you pay more than 50 grand in legal, you're probably spending too much. That's usually a good rule of thumb in that regard. Yeah.

[A]

Very cool. When pitching investors, what is mistake that newbies make, but maybe experienced people are also making it. When it comes to pitching an lp.

[C]

They talk in gobbledygook jargon. I mean, they think that people are impressed when talking about IRRs and equity multiples and all of this stuff. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if your clients understood this stuff, they'd probably be active real estate investors. The IRS tax code is very favorable to people who are active real estate investors for a reason. So if your clients, just because they're sophisticated business people or well known doctors or dentists or whatever it is, if you think that talking at them at this level that you know, you're using the words that you learned because you do the business is going to help you, it's not. I always speak at a grade five level. I always try to say, hey, so 100 grand comes in. My goal at the end of five to seven years is to give you back 150 or 200,000 or whatever the pitches. I mean, that, that. And how do we do that? Well, we do it through appreciation, we do it through cash flow, and we do it through mortgage pay down. So that, that's how we get there. So that's the biggest mistake I see people is they, they over complicate something. If you can't explain it in two minutes, either you don't understand it or it's way too complicated. Like, yeah, too complicated.

[B]

I love that. Like my favorite pitch deck that I've ever seen from somebody that was raising capital was here's how much you give and then based upon that, here's how much you'll get back in five years. Because there's been so many that are confusing where it's like, well, you get this back after year one, but you don't really get it back, you get this back after year two, you don't get. It's just projected. Like, if the property performs at this level, it's worth this. And this is what you're projected to get back. And for me, I'm like, all I really care about is how much do I get when you sell this? And so in a, you know, factor in depreciation and all this other stuff where it's like, I just want to know how much money I'm going to make at the end of the day.

[C]

So this is my favorite pitch deck. A blank sheet of paper. If you can't sit down in front of a. I'm serious. You can't sit down in front of a client and just draw them. The basic pride principles of the business or the deal, say, hey, it's a $10 million building. $10 million deal, whatever it is, 3 million from investors, 7 from the bank. We're going to do this, this, this, and it's going to be worth $15 million. Here's how. And then you get 70% of that. Here's what? Like, if you can't do this within two minutes, you either don't understand your deal or it's just way too complicated. That's another thing I see people do is that they bundle up. And Brandon, maybe you've seen this where somebody is like, they're doing a development and there's like an offshoot and then there's like this other thing, and then there's maybe a brewery on part of the property. And then maybe there's this. And they have so many things going on and you're just like, dude, like, you pitched me like, four businesses and one thing like, what the heck are we talking about here? Like, this isn't your life's dream that I'm trying to fulfill you with on as an investor. Like, like, theoretically, yeah, maybe this parcel land could be like phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four. But those are four different investment decisions. Right? So, you know, and by the way, guys, I'm not saying you don't have a pitch deck and you don't have a ppm. I'm just saying that your investors will make a decision as to whether you're investible or not within the first two or three minutes of interacting with you. Yeah.

[A]

Yep. That's really good. You know, I had. I had dinner, or maybe it was lunch with Ken McElroy one time. And that was a gist of what? Yeah, it's the gist of what he told me. I was Going for advice on raising money. I had to raise a whole lot of money at one time, over a summer, a couple years ago, sat down with him and his advice was exactly that. He's like, you just overly complicate things. He's like, grab a white piece of paper or whiteboard. He's like, if it's on video, just set your camera up, set your phone up, grab a pen, draw it on a whiteboard. And if you can't explain in a few minutes, like, you're not going to get their money anyway. And if I just overwhelm them and confuse them, he's like, you just, you go way too deep and you're giving way too much detail. I'm like, dory of my life. Have you read any of my books? Like, I'm just like, I can't not do it. Like everything. And so, yeah, that was some life changing advice. We took it as advice, I ran with it. And today, even our long pitch deck, I mean, we had a, whatever, 80 page pitch deck. It's like four words on a slide and that's the next slide. It's like four words with a nice.

[C]

Picture of a dog.

[A]

It's like, let's keep it. Like, I try to put everything in there, but it's got to be like fifth grade level. And that's what I want to see when people send me pitch decks.

[C]

I'm like, too much. It's too much. I mean, look, the only time it's appropriate to include the, that level of detail is when you're pitching to family offices or institutional investors. Because literally, like I've gone to New York for those 50, $100 million commitments. And yeah, you're not just sending them a pitch deck, you're sending them a full blown data room with like disaster recovery plans and like all these other things that are theories of, theories of what if these theories happen? Like, it's just, but that's, that's what they need at that level. But for the majority of us, if you're raising 200, $500 million at a time with most investors, I mean, look, you should have that stuff like in an investor, like in a data room. But that's not what you lead with.

[B]

Yeah, so we've been talking about how you, how investors essentially vet us. But on the flip side, how, how do you vet investors to find out if their values align with yours? For instance, great example. I've got investors that invest with me and they're reaching out every single month to find out where the deals are at. And then I've got investors that, that don't care at all. And I like the ones that don't care at all. They just are waiting for their money to come back. So how do you. And I'm trying to build to having all of the investors that are just like, here's the money and tell me, tell me when you're paying me. How do you vet investors?

[C]

Yeah, so it's a very valid question. I mean, like, you guys, I have thousands of inquiries on a monthly basis coming in for investment and things like this. So we run, we run an app grading process. So in other words, every inquiry has gone through an app grading process where they're rated 1 through 3. I think it is. And it has nothing to do with their ability to invest, just. But it's their mentality and how they're seeing things. And are they truly thinking of themselves as passive or, you know, are they really active? But they just want to kind of see how I do things, which is totally fine, but I just, I just want to understand the kind of person that I'm potentially dealing with. So that happens early in the process to kind of vet out what someone's intent is. And if they want to learn, that's fine. But. But I put them in a different bucket because they want different things from me, which is fine. So there's different resources for those investors. But to help you flush out the truly passive investors, one of the things that we build into our meetings, and I teach this, and I'll give you the framework now, is when you have your meeting with the client and you could do this either as a recording before the meeting or during the meeting. If you could deliver it, you could literally be like, so, Cameron, look, look, I know we're going to talk about ABC Fund for context. Most of my investors typically have a few questions, like, what are the risks, what are the returns and what are the timeframes? And I'm going to have some questions for you, like what have you invested in before? How's it worked for you? And what are some of your goals going forward? And ultimately, one of two things will happen. Either A, we'll figure out that this is a great opportunity and I'll walk you through the paperwork, or B, we'll just figure out that it's not a fit. And that's okay because what I do isn't a fit for everyone. And anyway, the scripting goes on for a little bit. But ultimately what I'm trying to do is create a sandbox for A conversation so that I can then flush out your experiences, your biases, your values. And if those things don't line up with what I'm doing, I'll typically be like, hey, look, I'm glad we got on this call. I just don't think we're going to be able to work together. And I literally just off board people before they want to get any further, because it's not going to work. Like, if somebody is trying to force you to change how you structure your deals because it doesn't suit them, that's great. I wish you well. If somebody's trying to change how we report to investors, that's great. I wish you well. If somebody's trying to change how we do business, I wish you well to find that somewhere else. And by doing it that way out of the gate is, it creates a very strong frame that, look, we know what we're doing. Here's how we operate, here's how we've done it, here's who we work with. And if you want to participate in that, that's great. If you don't, that's okay. And it just, it sets a really different expectation. Right? Imagine going to your lawyer's office and telling him how he does business. Business. Or going to your doctor and your doctor tells you about your treatment. You're like, yeah, that's great. But, you know, here's what I want. Like, they. They'd be like, great, go find a doctor that can do that for you. Like, what do you want from me?

[A]

Yeah, that's really good, man. Hey, I got it. 1. If you were starting over brand new, like starting over a scratch, you got no contacts, no rich friends and family, you've got to raise a million bucks over the next 30 days. Walk me through your game plan. What do you do?

[C]

Well, so I like how you phrase the question, but I would actually raise the money that I need through the deal, not through the money itself. And let me explain that. What I would actually do is if, given the circumstances you just gave me, I know how to identify value, whether it's in business or real estate or whatever it is. I would literally go tunnel vision on a small transaction, million to $5 million, and find something grossly undervalued, tie it up, and then flip it to somebody else. So I had working capital because the biggest problem most people think is they think their first deal is the deal that sets them free and their cash flow and Robert Kiyosaki and passive income and all that crap. Look, this is 2025. That world is not today's world. What you actually need first is cash until you have seven figures in the bank. I don't want to hear about cash flow. Go put money in the bank, have the liquidity, and then when you have the liquidity, you can breathe to then create the cash flow. So the first thing I would do, Brandon, is I wouldn't actually go raise the money because that's too many steps, because I need to pay my bills. The first thing I would do is I'd go find a killer deal, tie it up, and then either assign it to somebody and make my fee, or then I would go raise the money because you just need to collapse things as quickly as possible.

[A]

I like that a lot, actually. And that would kind of force you to get good at the hardest thing, which is finding deals, actually. Would you agree with this statement? And I've been teaching this for a while. I think if you have a great deal, you can figure out the money. But people just, I think, struggle with knowing how to find good deals. They don't take action. But if you got a home run deal, you should be able to give the money. Do you agree?

[C]

I do, but I'm even more sold on the exact opposite of what I. What you just said, because I came from the private equity space. So I actually think that if you have money, you can create great deals. Because if you have the money in the bank, think about how kkr, Blackstone, Apollo, all the largest private equity firms in the world, they don't go and buy buildings and then raise money. They go and pitch the investment thesis, basically on a blind pool basis, and they go raise tens of billions of dollars. They do this first, and then they use their balance sheet to bully their way in the market to get whatever deals they want. So I actually. I agree with what you're saying, Brandon, as a starting point, but I actually think the. The syntax of that, in my opinion, has been the more powerful way to do it. Literally, the last numbering I got, I got the discount because I was like, well, here's the bank account.

[A]

Yeah, that's cool.

[B]

There was. I saw this on Instagram the other day, and there's. There's a story that Grant Cardone tells about how he's buying a private jet and he wanted it, and apparently they were selling to somebody else. And so he wired $50 million to the. The jet salesperson. They called him back and we're like, we'll send you the jet.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that one.

[B]

Yeah. And in the that's his salesperson was actually one who posted this Instagram video. He was like that Grant Cardone might lie a lot, but this one is true. Like he, he literally did this because I was involved in this transaction. But it like you just said, if you have the money, you can bully your way around a little bit and, and get deals that nobody else can get.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you know, and, and I think I heard this, Brandon, when you were doing the bigger pockets thing years ago. I was, somebody was mailing a check when they were making an offer, like 100 grand or 250 grand, the full amount up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So psychologically you're like, well, I guess I'm just gonna, I'll take this one. Right. Like, but the money's there, right? So. Yep.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard of people, their earnest money is their offer. It's like it's a 200, 000 house. So $200,000 earnest money. Here you go. I just wired it over. It's like that's a strong like, like I don't know what discount I would give, but I would for sure give it like for example, a $200,000 house and somebody offered me 180 and they wired the 180. Would I offer them a 20 grand discount? Almost for sure. Guaranteed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Would I give 100 grand discount? No, of course not. So there's, there's a discount in there, a cash discount so to speak, that most investors have now that obviously if you're getting 20 offers and they're all over asking. Yeah, it's a different story. But that's not really the market we find ourselves in today.

[C]

No, that was two years ago, but yeah. Oh, sorry. What I was talking about is, you know, like there's the debt, there's the debt, there's the wall of debt that's maturing now. I'm sure you guys are following it too, where there's a, you know, I think it was a couple hundred billion dollars in the next few months and then almost 2 trillion in the next 24 months. So there's a lot of this debt that all the, you know, pretend and extend lenders are going to have to come do and they're going to turn around and they're going to say, well, who's got money? And they, their REO departments aren't meant to hold real estate and as long as they get most if not all their money back, they're fine. So you know, they're not going to want your offer to come with like 16 pages of contingencies. It's like, here's the bank account, here's our terms.

[A]

Yep. What do you see happening in the real estate market? Given, you know, again, that kind of. Explain that and correct me where we differ on this. And if I'm, if I'm misrepresenting the situation, a ton of people took out loans over the last five years that are, that were just short term bridge loans, whatever you want to call them, they're short term loans. Those are all coming due. The problem though is that values are way less than what they were because cap rates have changed. So the value of commercial real estate may have dropped. Call it 20%, 30%. And we have to refinance these loans. We can't. And there's just billions and billions and billions of dollars coming due. What's going to happen over the next few years?

[C]

Oh man, that's.

[A]

It's the trillion dollar question.

[C]

That is the trillion dollar question. So just for context, for anybody who's not familiar with this, I mean, what Brandon's saying is cap rates, I mean, if they used to be, let's just say 5%, now they're even 6 or 7, that seems harmless. But that 1 to 2% bump on a 5%, that's a 20 to 30% erosion in value. So I've seen situations where syndicators or even fund managers for that matter, would buy buildings, they'd increase the value 20, 30% theoretically by the revenue. But because the cap rates have gone up, basically they've run fast for the last two, three years just to stand still is really what's happened. Now those are the guys that did a good job. What about the people that did do a good job and they overpaid? Well, they're the ones who are wiped out. So look, a lot of guys I talk to in the various lending REO departments, they're business, they are very busy and right now they're all playing kind of cool because here's how this works, okay? Deals end up in REO, but before they end up in REO, the lenders are hiring real estate brokerages to do BOVs. Brokers, opinions and values. So I got a bunch of my buddies that are in the space and they're doing a lot of BOVs. So when I hear guys doing a lot of BOVs, it tells me it's the first step of REOs, followed by the auction process. Right. So what'll be really telling? So here's my answer to you, Brandon. What'll be really telling is what the lenders do as a response to the REOs. And I don't mean the lenders with the REOs, I mean the secondary financing market. So in other words, what are the existing lenders maybe that don't have all the crap on their, on their own balance sheets? What are they, are they still lending in the market? Because if they're not lending, it does. It'll be just like it was back in 09.10 when I had my, my first fund. Because if there's no financing then you gotta be cash and there's only so many guys out there that can write a 50 million or a hundred million dollar cash check right for these larger assets. So my answer to you is dependent on what happens with the secondary financing market or the refinancing market. Because if, because it's a double edged sword, the reos is going to mean that the lenders that are going to take losses are going to be more cautious. So are they then going to turn around and make new loans on new assets while they have an impairment on their own balance sheet? I don't know. So if the answer is no, that they're not lending, then that's going to be a variant. But then again Trump now has the golden visa that if you invest a billion dollars, the new tax look the next. What's that old proverb? May you live in interesting times. This is. I'm keeping my head on a swivel right now. I know I gave you the best non answer answer but I, I don't know dude.

[A]

I know I'm the same thing. What I'm thinking through is like, I mean I can see a few scenarios happening, right And I don't know which one but I, there is going to be opportunity in the next few years to come in and buy I think good deals. I think we're going to see the good in the multifamily, especially space coming back and it's going to come back strong. So yeah, I'm playing with the idea right now starting a big old rescue fund and probably all cash rescue fund where it's like hey, let's go raise 100 million and just go buy some deals, all cash, we'll refinance it afterwards. But we're going to come in and just get some really good deals by either rescuing syndicators that are struggling or by you know, just taking it from the banks if they get taken back. I, I see an opportunity there. But again I'm trying to decide like how, how far do we Go into that. How much do I want to actually raise?

[C]

And when you do it, you know what, when do you see that happening? Oh, go ahead.

[B]

I was gonna say, like, when do you see that in the next two years or the next five years? Because I don't, I don't think it's the next two years.

[A]

I think it's the next six months.

[B]

You think it's the next couple months?

[A]

No, I think, I think lenders are gonna, I mean, I have no idea.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Crystal ball. I think lenders. I think everyone's waiting for rates to come down because if interest rates come down, most likely cap rates will come down. And that solves a lot of the problems that are out there. So I think everyone's just kind of sitting around waiting for that and be like, oh, I think it will happen when Trump comes in. And then Trump came in and it's not happened yet, but the 10 year treasury is down. So it's like, okay, well maybe it's happening, but rates haven't really, I mean, I don't know. Marcin, what do you think?

[C]

You're the expert. The expert is a very generous.

[A]

Thank you for that.

[C]

So the what's interesting again, I look at flows of capital, where money flows, that's where attention goes, right? So, pardon me, where attention goes, money flows. So I look at the private equity firms and they're sitting on I think over a trillion dollars in dry powder right now. Dry powder is just, hey, we raised this money, we got a 10 year window with our LPs and we've basically told them we're going to hang out till there's blood in the street and then we're going to buy up everything. So the fact that a lot of those guys haven't really started ripping on deals is really indicative of where I think they think the market is. And because when Blackstone or kkr, Apollo, when they move into a market like the whole market shifts. We saw it with the build to rent communities in Florida. You saw it everywhere else probably. Maybe the mobile home response base, you saw them buying the bigger, like when they move into a market, their toe in the water is a billion dollar toe, right? That's a big toe. So, you know, I haven't seen them make any big plays, which tells me they're still waiting. So that's a big piece of it. Also the other thing that those guys have is they have their own refinancing department, so they are their own financing, so they are their own equity and then they have their own debt funds to then recap their own equity. So the fact that they haven't making any moves yet tells me that they think it's early now, Brandon, is it six months or two years? I think somewhere in between there is probably. I think we're going to see fireworks this year. I think you're going to start seeing some big guys finally rolling over and saying, hey, sorry, this is it.

[A]

I mean, we've been seeing it, we've been tracking it in Opendoor Capital, watching just a number of syndicators that I know, that I follow, I respect and I feel respecting, but I'm seeing one after another, these dominoes falling. And it's very. It's very quiet still, but it's happening and it's going to continue to happen. I think it's going to just ramp up and, yeah, it's going to be rough. A lot of blood in the streets is coming up.

[C]

And if you're new, if you're new, don't be scared of these things. Pay attention to them. Like, literally, I started in the worst financial recession in the last however many years since the Great Depression. Like the gfc, the great. Like, I literally got. I remember sitting at my desk when we were doing Ken's first deal, and I remember looking up at the monitor. I'm seeing guys walking out of Lehman Brothers, the bank with the banker's boxes, they just got fired. And I'm just like, man, maybe I should have been a lawyer. You know, like, you're trying to figure life out, right? But my point is I actually developed a skill set and a set of muscles that I'm thankful for come today. So, you know, if things get bad, be thankful for it. I mean, you know, if you have a bad situation, you have things not working. I mean, I'm sorry to hear that, obviously, but, you know, the game is that there's ebbs and flows to it. That that's what this game is for. Yeah, that it is.

[A]

All right, man. Well, we. I could probably ask you 4,000 other questions on this, but I know you're going to be speaking at the REI summit in June. I'm excited about that. I'll have to connect in person there and hear what you got to say there. But let's move over to the next segment of the show. We call this the 3, 2, 1, pivot. The idea being your life's going one direction and something gets in its way to make it pivot in a more positive direction. So we'll start with books. What are three books that have pivoted your life or improved your life.

[C]

So my number one favorite book probably of all time at this point is the Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday. Ryan Holiday. You guys know that book? The subtitle of the book is. Yeah, well, the subtitle is what's in the Way Becomes the Way. That book for me is amazing. I tried to reread it. There you go. You got it on the.

[B]

I think I'm just finished it, so.

[C]

Oh, it's fantastic. I love that book. It's. It's. It's just. It. Even having the mentality of what is in the way becomes the way is just so congruent with the way I look at everything. So. Another one is Principles by Ray Dalio. So that, that is really solid framework for making decisions, problem solving, leadership. It has a lot to do with how I built, build businesses and raise capital. And a third one, I'm reading it, actually. I'll share this with you. So full disclosure, I'm in the middle of this book right now. It's called Awareness by Anthony Lamello. And actually. That's good. Yeah. Have you read this one?

[A]

I did, yeah. I read it a couple years ago. I really liked it.

[C]

Yeah, I'm about halfway through it. Ken recommended it to me. Actually, I was talking to him a little while ago, so good read so far. But yeah, this is having a good impact too.

[A]

Very cool, man.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

All right, so.

[A]

Two.

[B]

Two pivot people who are two people that have changed the direction of your life?

[C]

Well, the first and most obvious to me is my dad. I mean, he taught me the value of discipline, hard work, doing things the right way, even when no one's watching. Right? And my dad is a man with a great deal of self respect and just a strong. Just. Just watching the way he conducted his life has really been an example for. You know, I'll give you just a really quick, quick story. My dad runs an auto shop and he had a client come to his. I was a little kid, guy walks in my shop and goes. His name's Arthur. Arthur, I'm. I'm very unhappy with you. And my dad goes, okay, what would you like me to do about your unhappiness? And the guy just laughed at it because it was so obvious that my dad refused to take on the shit sandwich from him, right? He goes, I understand you're unhappy. How can I help you become more happy? Right? Like, he refused to take ownership of his state. So as a kid, I was just like, that's awesome. Like, you can do that, you know, like, like I don't have to absorb your nonsense. Like, I can just, just so anyway, it's funny, it sticks with. And then the other person goes without saying. I mean, you know, Ken McRoy, look, I, I, I learned so much from that guy over 20 plus years. You know, I'm to, to be able to reach out to him and, and just stay in touch and he gave me the confidence to, to step up my game and, and do things the right way, which, which is amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome.

[B]

There's so much that we could learn from that quote that your dad said. That's, that's so good because I, I take, I take so much like pressure of, hey, I've got to be the, the, the motivator, make people happy, make people this, that or the other where it's like, no, you don't have to, you don't have to carry that weight around. That's our own personal issues.

[C]

Y.

[A]

So, all right, man, what about quote, a quote that's changed your life or pivoted your life or you live by.

[C]

So do you guys remember Zig Ziglar, the old sales trainer? I guess I loved him. I used to, you know, listen to him at my headphones at night and all this stuff and he had a quote. You don't have to be great to start, but you have to be, you have to start to be great.

[A]

That's really good, man.

[C]

Love that.

[B]

Perfect. Next segment of our show, past, present and future. And so let's go look at your past first. And you said you're 40 years old, so let's go back 20 years to 20 year old Marston. What, what, what advice would you give 20 year old you?

[C]

I'd bet on myself sooner is what I would have done. I know that's hard to say at 20, but I, I honestly, I feel like I wasted a few years there. You guys might laugh, but there were there, I just, I wait, I felt like I wasted too much time waiting for the perfect moment, you know, the right connection or more experience or I'm too young, I don't have enough experience or all these limiting beliefs that I had. And I wish I took bigger swings earlier in life. Even the eight figure equity fund that we did, my first fund, I could have done a nine figure equity fund. I just wasn't thinking big enough. In my 20s, I'm like raising tens of millions of dollars. Oh my God, that's just amazing. We're gonna, you know, in my mind I'm like, we're gonna Buy up everything. We did not buy up everything. You buy a few buildings, and that's all the cash we have. Right. So I. I just wish I thought bigger because, you know, and also I. There was a moment in my life where I was waiting for almost like, validation from somebody. I don't know from where to, like, come out of, I don't know, somewhere and be like, you know, just get pat on the shoulder and be like, you did a good job. And it's like, I don't know if I should be telling you this, but I was like, there's this moment where I was feeling like I needed. I was waiting for some validation from somebody, anybody, and it's like, that's never coming. So your validation is from yourself. It's just putting your. Your head on the pillow at night knowing that you did a good thing.

[A]

That's so good, man. Marston. You're doing a good job.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Yeah, you need to hear that, though. You got this. All right, next question for me. What is something you've done in your life recently that's given you a better life? Could be a habit, routine, a new action, a new purchase. Something you've done that's improved your life this year.

[C]

Oh, man, that's a good one. Okay, so look, I audit. I started auditing my time. Like, I audit my investments, and I'd never done that before. So literally every week I take a hard look at where my time is going and who I'm spending. Like, literally who I'm spending with, what I'm working on and whether it's actually moving me closer to my goals. And just like, with money, if, you know, if you're not intentional with your time or your money, it just disappears into things that don't give you return. So, you know, even, like, casually and. And, you know, some people I know may not like me for saying this, but, like, people will text me, hey, just want to hang out. And I'm like, well, no, I don't want to just hang out. Like, I got, like, I have. I have very specific intentions and goals. So, like, if you fit into that, if that. Of those. Of those goals, then I will move the planet for you for that. But if it doesn't fit, then I'm not just going to go hang out. Like, that's. That's not the. And maybe that's the season of my life that I'm in. So auditing my time right now is incredibly important.

[B]

Yeah, I would say that was one of the. And I think it's in the perfect week. Craig Valentine or he, he talks about that. And I had audited my time before, but I'd done it in like two hour time blocks. And he talks about auditing in 15 minute time blocks, which is a lot. But you don't realize in that three hour, two hour time block how much you're pulling out your phone and, and scrolling Instagram or texting or doing this. And so when I started auditing in 15 minute time blocks and you really can only do that for a week because it gets overwhelming, but then to look back on that and be like, oh my goodness, I, I literally just sat on Instagram for 15 minutes here and then another 15 minutes here and then I watched YouTube videos here. And that, that 15 minute time block was, was a game changer for me to realize how much time I really am wasting, even though I feel like I'm being productive and busy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I got rid of email on my phone a little while ago. I don't have email. I, I, look, we don't have investment emergencies in real estate and if we do, that's typically with the property manager because I would be on my phone checking email, like take my daughter to like dance class and like I have five minutes like, like, like just like a drug addict just sitting there like checking email. So like, like this is stupid. Like, this doesn't have to get done now. So I just got rid of email. I just literally, I can't, I cannot see an email on my phone. I literally need to be at my desk doing the thing that I do when I check emails. Yeah, amazing.

[B]

Amazing. All right, last question for you. Looking into the, the future. What, what do you want to be remembered by?

[C]

So that's a question. That is a big question. I mean, look, the shortest answer I could possibly give you is I have a three year old daughter and hopefully more little ones to come. I want my kids to look back at anything I've done and be like, that was my dad. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's so cool, man. All right, dude, moving to the closing, a couple quick questions for you. Well, first of all, I don't usually ask people this, but what are you speaking on at the REI summit?

[C]

Yeah, so the rei. By the way, thank you for the invitation out. Super excited and stoked to be part of it. The big thing for me is I just want to give people, I guess, different syntax around capital raising as a tool set. And look, just because you're not thinking about raising capital today doesn't mean you won't be tomorrow. Or the day after. And look, all you have is a hammer. Everything looks like a nail. So Look, I love sub 2. I love creative finance, I love jv ing. There's a billion different ways to do deals in real estate. And understanding what capital raising is as a construct will make it so much easier for you to do those bigger deals. And you know, Cameron, when you see that next deal that you need to raise 5 million for, you're not just like hooped three months before it. You actually have the depth to go into it. And I'm going to be sharing a lot of that. I mean, to me it's, you know, think about what you do when you raise, when you raise money and put a deal together. You assemble a team, you put together opportunity, you create a better housing environment. All of these economics increase a neighborhood, whether through tax revenue. You're, you're increasing the quality of life, the safety, the, you know, there's, there's so many things, positive benefits you do when you put money together in a deal in the community. So I just want to share that story and, you know, give people that, the context.

[A]

All right, well, last, last two. What are you excited about? What's coming up in your life besides that?

[C]

Well, we're growing the family. I guess there's a lot to be excited about.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Working on growing the family. I don't know how to answer that in a PG way, but, you know, really excited about that.

[A]

I bet, man.

[C]

Going really well there. And yeah, you know what? Life's good. I mean, honestly, I just, I'm, I'm having a good time. You know, our clients are, are winning. We're winning. You know, I, I don't know that, that, that, that need to do things. Like, it's funny because when you, when you don't have that need to do things is when you do so many more things.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you know, we're just, we're just, we're in a good place. Awesome.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Last question for you. Where actually I was on your Instagram earlier today and yesterday and there's so much great information on there. One, like giving out scripts for talking to investors, all that stuff. So chat, reach out for more information.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, so, so the, the best, most tangible place for people to get actual content is I have a free school group in their school, SK O L called Capital Connectors. It's a free group. There's a couple thousand members there. There's so much. We, I don't sell courses. We give all that stuff away for free. So it's all there, all my courses, all the stuff. It's, you know, you could you see whatever you need so people can definitely learn about stuff there. Or if you want to check me out and what I'm doing, my website, marcindros.is is a good place too. Amazing.

[A]

Very cool man. Marin, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for joining us, sharing your wisdom, teaching us about raising capital.

[B]

I know it is a it is.

[A]

A very, very powerful tool to have in your schoolbox as a real estate investor. So we're very thankful to have you and can't wait to hang out with you in June at the REI Summit. So thanks man.

[C]

Appreciate it. Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Thanks guys.

[A]

Hey, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Better Life Podcast. I hope you you enjoyed this show and got some valuable insights to help you lead a better life for you and your family. Now. Hey, if you found value in this episode, please consider subscribing here to our YouTube channel and let me know in the comments down below what you thought of this episode. And your feedback actually helps us improve the show and reach more people with that message of living that better life. So be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And hey, before I go, you know this show and this channel is all about the habits, actions, beliefs and strategies that give you a better life. But in case you're interested and you want to know my opinion on what it takes to live not just the better life, but the best life ever from like a spiritual and faith standpoint, check out abetterlife.com best life. Thank you again for listening and watching. We'll see you next time on the Better Life Podcast.