A (3:29)

You want to get on a. On a Hot Topic then is, do people who are native in an area, whether it's Hawaii, whether it's, you know, America, whether it's whatever, do they deserve the right to hold that land forever in their people?

B (3:44)

Ooh.

A (3:45)

Like, because really, all of human history is just a pattern of conquering other people and then setting up new things. So it's like, how far back do you go? And again, I get the Hawaii struggle. And we're going to get probably our houses burned down for saying this. It's like, I get the Hawaii struggle of like, hey, we were here first, therefore, and America stole this land. That is mostly true. America deceptively took Hawaii. That said China. I mean, Japan would have taken it anyway. So it was either Japan or America. They did vote after the fact. And, you know, like a poll not A vote, a poll. And people were happy with it by far, they say. And at the end of the day, like, is all of civilization just a matter of whoever's stronger wins? And where do you go back? I don't know. That's a tough one, dude.

B (4:29)

So. And I don't know the history behind this, and so I want to be incredibly empathetic to that. But here's what I will say is I think that Hawaii is outlier because it's in the middle of an ocean where it's like, let's use an example. What is it like Menlo park where tech bubble everything and it's blown up. I actually talked to a guy at Pyton Cork here, and he was born there in the 70s, and he was like, my parents bought their house for $300,000, which in the 70s would be an expensive house, but now it's worth like $6.7 million or something insane like that. But there you just move 20 minutes outside of town. Like, you know what I mean? Here I think that's the struggle is like you have to move off island. Like, they're getting displaced because of that, because there's nowhere else to go. It's either you're in Hawaii or you're on the mainland. And so I feel that, that said.

A (5:27)

There is a lot of complaining, again rightfully so, about the prices of real estate in Hawaii because it's, you know, land, so it's forcing people to move out. I get all that. That's also true in California and in Austin and in Nashville and in Atlanta and major city in America. It is no longer affordable. So it's also not just a Hawaii problem, it's a American problem of affordability.

B (5:50)

It's just getting difficult in all of those areas. You can move 40 minutes outside of town and you can find relatively cheap housing still. And here you can't. You're moving across the ocean, you're moving away from your family, you're away from your roots, where it's not like, hey, can still drive in, see you a couple times a week. I would say the government, one of the things. And again, I am. I'm so misinformed. Or not misinformed, uninformed. I haven't done enough research. One of the things that does bother me is the government, them acting like they want affordable housing, but then making it so hard to build affordable housing. And I mean, if you look out our back door, there's hundreds of thousands of acres of land. And that's one of the things that Keeps Maui beautiful. But like there is room to build here as well. And they make it so hard. Like we've got a buddy, Bruce, who's trying to build affordable housing. I think it's a 24 unit property or something like that. And the county's not giving him a permit for it. They will give him permits for four like high end houses because of the neighborhood this. And so he could do four, you know, multimillion dollar houses, which doesn't solve the affordability problem at all. Or 24 affordable, like a multifamily. And they won't do that. And so like it is, they're saying one thing, but then their policy is, is kind of dictating another thing.

A (7:19)

I just heard about a church on Maui that had put up a big housing, not development but like a bunch of tiny houses on an area. And they had like, I don't know, 20 or 30 people displaced by the fires. That low income, mostly natives, like native Hawaiians that were living there. And the state or the county just came in and shut them down because they didn't have the right fire hydrant system that would cost millions of dollars to build the right fire hydrants. And so they just kicked those people out and now they're on the street because it's just like what they. Yeah, the government can say they want affordable. This is not just Hawaii. This is everywhere. They say they want affordable housing. But then how do we actually make that happen? I mean, let's look at the options. Right. You could dictate the price of rent, which you can. A lot of areas have done and in almost, I think maybe even every case. Tell me, fact check me on this people. But in every single state that has added a lot of like rent control, the prices just go up dramatically and it just gets all out of whack. And so it doesn't actually have.

B (8:15)

The problem is the houses that aren't rent controlled shoot up. But like in San Francisco is a great, like if it's rent controlled and you're selling it, you're. And you're inheriting tenants, you're inheriting that rent control. So you can't come in and jack up prices. So that building is worth next to nothing for.

A (8:33)

Yeah. But also then the tenant never wants to leave because they're getting a thousand rent, everyone else's 2,000. Yeah. And then what is my incentive? This is the biggest problem or one of the biggest problems I see with that is I'm a landlord, I own a property, it's rent controlled, it's only a thousand dollars a month for rent right now for those tenants living there, I could get 3,000 if it wasn't rent controlled. Which means that that is such an in demand property because it's so cheap that I like those people will never leave. So what is my incentive? Now I'm not saying I'm a bad landlord, there's a moral piece of this. But think of the average landlord. What is their incentive to do a good job managing. They don't. They have none. They will let that property just fall into complete disrepair because they don't have any. Like there's no reason to fix it up. They know that they can let it go to a just a slummy, crappy, ugly, terrible, broken, smelly, moldy property because there's no like the tenant is going to keep paying anyway.

B (9:22)

Yeah, because tenant can't find anywhere for anywhere near that. Well and I think there's also, and I'm just speaking on San Francisco because I have read a little bit about this, not a ton, again feel somewhat misinformed or uninformed on this. But also the tax incentives like your, your real estate tax is next to nothing on those but when you sell it, it's going to shoot up 1020 x on those properties. And so it's hard. It's really hard.

A (9:48)

So the alternative of course is you could add a whole lot more building like for example to an area like you know, Seattle or Hawaii or most areas of California, you could just add a bunch more development. Whether it's vertical developments, you allow for higher buildings and more density or you could have, you know, you could do that but then everyone's complaining we don't want more people here especially you get that in like Hawaii. Right? Like we don't want to allow more building. Okay, so then what are our options? We, we either shut down the state from allowing people to move there or shut down an entire US Free state and say you can't move there. That will never happen and could never happen because we live in a. Unless they become their own country. But a state is not going to restrict travel there. Okay, so you want to build more, can't build more. They don't want you to build more. So what do you do? Like those are the levers that we can pull and you add in, you can rent control it and then that's where we end up going. Which is why ultimately I do fear that every single state will move, at least all the not completely right wing states will move towards like rent control. We'll probably have nationwide rent control at some point. I don't know how they'll do it. I'm not a legal expert, but it's the only lever they think they can pull, even though it doesn't actually fix things.

B (10:58)

Have you seen there? There was a video, it was going around like on TikTok and Instagram a couple years ago of a guy going out with a gun and firing it into like the ground like 15 times. And then he looks at the camera and he said, just making sure that I'm keeping property values low here or something like that.

A (11:14)

No, yeah, exactly.

B (11:15)

It was funny, but it's true. It's like that's the other is, is you let areas just go to crap to keep prices low. It's hard. And I think Hawaii specifically, and just the grand scheme of things is the hardest on the people that are here, because again, you can't move an hour outside of town. And then you get generational housing, which is what a lot of people are doing, where it's like, hey, this house has been in our. For generations. And there's. All of our kids are living in adus on the property or something like that. It's just, I mean, I even think about it for my kids if we stay in Hawaii for, until they graduate high school and college, like, unless I pay for them to live here, it's borderline impossible unless they're living in a house with eight other kids. Like, I mean, we see that with the church that we work at. They have a lot of interns and young people that come through and they're all, they're. They're stacking 10 to a house and sleeping in garages and sleeping in sheds and, and things like that. It's just, it, it's so hard. And part of the reason is because Maui is so beautiful and people want to be here for the, the lifestyle that it gives you.

A (12:25)

Well, so here, here's how I see it. Here's the three ways that we solve the affordable housing crisis in America. Going back to the real estate side is this is my opinion if I was president of the, of the United States. Number one is we have to decrease the cost of, of building for developers and we have to open up the zoning and all that for them. So number one is there is a structural standpoint there. We got to allow more building. We got to reduce the red, red tape and the cost. That's number one. Number two, we have to increase the ADU usage. In other words, like density. You could say, like, we got to add more houses to houses. And I love the ADU play for that reason is it solves two people's problems. It allows people to go live in. By the way, those don't know ADU is, it's an auxiliary dwelling unit. It's like a mother in law apartment, a casita, different names for that. You add in that extra unit in the backyard of somebody's house. Now somebody can afford to pay way less rent for that little one bedroom house. But then also they're paying rent to the homeowner who can now afford to own that home because they're getting a thousand dollars off toward their mortgage. Because that's. You solve two problems with one by allowing ADUs. This is why California is going that way, Washington's going that way, Hawaii's been that way for a long time. And the third thing you do is you have to allow. What I would argue is you got to allow more of the co living, rent by the room stuff. Which you know, I'm fighting the city right now. Out in Florida one of my, one of my PA splits is the city's like, oh, you can't have that many unrelated people in a house. And so now we're fighting with them over no, this is an LLC that has members of the LLC and the members are allowed to live there. And that's kind of the loophole around it and I'll probably get through it, but it's such a battle and all I'm doing is providing safe, affordable, nice, like fixed up, remodeled housing to people who make less than 50k a year. They cannot afford a studio apartment in that market. So now I'm giving them a place and the county or the city's got a problem with it. So if the government can allow those three things, more ADUs, more CO living and reducing, reducing the cost of building, especially for multifamily, we can start to bring the cost of housing down. But it's not happening anytime soon.

B (14:18)

Like, I mean here's a great example, just talking about like red tape, we're flipping a house and I hope somebody from University City in St. Louis, Missouri hears this. But a good area in U City and we bought it and the basement was finished already. We did not do anything to the basement. We were going to move in the kitchen, we were moving the sink and because we were moving the sink, we were, we had to get a plumbing permit. So we call and we were trying to do things the right way. We call and get an inspector out to pull permits and he, I don't even know why, but he goes downstairs. Oh, actually I do know why. Because the stack is downstairs and he's looking at things like that. And he's like, well, hey, I don't have any permits pulled for the basement being finished. We did not do that. And so he says, you need to rip out the entire basement, expose electrical, plumbing. So we have to do that. And it's been an absolute nightmare. It's increased the cost of our budget on this house by probably 30 grand at least if we're going to put the basement back together again, which when I ran comps on it, I included a finished basement. So to get the ARV that we need, we're going to have to put the basement back together again. I say all that to say it makes me never want to buy in U City again. In this house. It was a pos like, it was a terrible house. No retail buyer would. Would have bought it. So it's not like we stole it from somebody that is going to buy it for cheap. No retail buyer has the capacity, the crews, the money to buy it. A bank isn't going to offer financing on it. And literally the conversation that I had with the inspector is like, you're ruining this, this city because you're keeping people like me that are doing good work, that are coming in, that are fixing up properties, that are trying to sell them. And yes, I need to make money for that, but you're keeping people like me out. I don't even know why you're doing that. But now all of these houses are getting run down and they're turning into drug houses. They're turning into a place where homeless people and kids get into fights. And you're ruining your city because of all of this red tape. And then also the only way that we can make money in New City if we do flip there is by selling for a higher price because we've got to factor in an extra 20 to $30,000 on every flip in permits and inspections and the construction and the rehab that goes along with that. And so to me, it is just. It's such a flawed system. And I want to give them the benefit of the doubt or not benefit of the doubt. But I understand why they do it because you do have a lot of slumlords that are lipstick on a pig that come in. They don't pull permits. It's dangerous. There's fire hazard, there's. There's flooding or, you know, plumbing hazards. Like, I get why they do it, but just making it so Hard increases the price of properties. But then it also, on the flip side, we're going to stop buying there. Other people stop buying there. And so then it creates a neighborhood that is continually decaying. And I just don't, I don't get it. I don't know. I don't know the right answer. Obviously, everybody has their right answer and everybody kind of like what we talked about last week. I think everybody in their mind thinks that what they're doing is the right thing, but it's so hard right now.

A (17:35)

Well, maybe one solution to some of this is I'd love to shift the conversation to a book I just read. It's called the Price of Tomorrow. Actually, Michael Ketchin recommended it. Have you read that one yet?

B (17:43)

I have not. I've heard you talk about it a.

A (17:44)

Lot and we might, I might even brought it up on a recent podcast. But the Price of Tomorrow is pretty fascinating. It's by a guy named Jeff Booth who ran like Builder Direct. I think it was, it was some like online website for builders. Anyway, his argument is basically from this point forward. Well, let me back up. He argues, Member TVs, big screen TVs used to be five grand then, or three grand, then two grand, then one grand, then 500. I just bought a 65 inch TV for my living room because I need a new TV on Black Friday and I paid 229 for it for a 65 inch TV, HD, beautiful, nice, big TV. 229. So his point is technology is deflationary in nature. Anything that has technology, it gets better and it gets cheaper over time. And he cites a lot of reasons for this. So he says now the reason that things like two by fours have gone up over the last hundred years and everything goes through inflation is because there's no technology involved or very little technology involved. Where raw materials and like normal business is inflationary, goes more expensive, technology is deflationary. So here's the argument is as AI and as robots get involved in technology in general, in every single business, the price of everything follows what happens to TVs and cell phones and et cetera. So the quality gets way better and the price gets way cheaper. And so there is a world. An example of that in the real estate world would be right now to buy a boxable from, you know, oh, boxabl is a company that does these like little adus, these little casitas. They're really cute and awesome and they can put them on your property. It's gonna cost you like 50 to 60, 70 grand to buy one. It depends on how big it is. And then you gotta move it there and set up construction, all that and you might be all in for $100,000 for a little 400 square foot boxable. Love that model. But as robots get better and better and technology improves that $50,000, a competitor is going to come in and do it for 40 and then another competitor is going to come do it for 30 and then another one for 20. And as technology gets better, because you don't pay for robots very much, once they get good enough, the cost of these things drive down. Now take that logic and apply it to every single thing in life. The cost of a 2x4, pretty soon the wood gets cut down from a robot, it gets put on a truck from a robot, it gets transported by a robot, it gets unloaded by a robot, get put into Home Depot by a robo robot, and then the person at the front desk is a robot. Now that might be 10 or 15 years away, but the point being at that point, is a 2x4 more expensive or cheaper? And his argument is it's significantly cheaper. Every single thing in our society becomes significantly cheaper. Which is both a hey cool, that's awesome. And also that's terrifying because we don't need jobs then.

B (20:19)

I mean the only way to solve that is by a ubi.

A (20:22)

Correct. And then UBI Universal Basic Income has to come in. What are your thoughts on ubiquitous?

B (20:26)

I understand it. I kind of like it. I back was this 2016 or was it 2020 when Yang was running for president? And I went in and I read everything there was to read about a UBI and some of his policies that he was recommending and implementing. And I like it in theory. I do think that it actually in concept it or it actually coming out and being rolled out to the masses, it wouldn't work. But dude, I love the idea of in his ideas, like idea was like hey, we're not giving people enough money to live on. We're giving enough people enough money to provide for basic needs to potentially put back into the economy. I mean you saw what happened. And granted we went into trillions of dollars in debt, but when we were getting the COVID relief checks, like the economy went crazy because people had extra spending money. They were using it. And so I, I, I like that. I think that it also gives people the breathing room a lot of times to dream and to create and to start more businesses and to stimulate the economy. And so I don't hate it. I just don't think that it would work right now. I. I do think that if what you're saying is true and everything becomes cheaper and as AI replaces jobs, there has to be something out there to make up for that. I mean, in my mind, the only jobs that are going to still be necessary are face to face sales. What do you. What do you think on that? Like what. What are the jobs that will never go away? Because we were talking about this in our business the other day. Right now, cold calling is almost there. When it sounds perfect. They can pick up on things, they can talk. It sounds like you're talking to a real person. Contract to close is almost there, where they can respond to the title company, they can fill out contracts. All of the admin jobs that we have right now or those really basic jobs were this close to. Oh, guys, Lexi brought me a cup of coffee.

A (22:46)

Oh, I'm the best. That's so nice. Thanks, Lexi.

B (22:49)

Can. Can Lexi say hi?

A (22:51)

Of course.

B (22:52)

I don't think people have ever even seen, like. Oh, she just gave me that look. Like.

C (22:55)

No, I'm. Hi.

A (22:57)

Hi. Oh, you look beautiful. I was gonna say maybe you're like, oh, I didn't do my makeup. No, you look great.

C (23:01)

No, I didn't do my hair, but I'm.

A (23:03)

Your hair looks. I was gonna come in your hair. Your hair looks great. If you did do your hair and it looks like that, you're. You're doing something right.

B (23:08)

Gets it for me.

C (23:09)

Thanks, mom.

A (23:10)

Yeah.

B (23:13)

She'S the mastermind in our business.

C (23:15)

Have any grays, though? And Cam's pop. You.

A (23:18)

Yeah, Cam and I are going very gray right now.

B (23:21)

I mean, I'm not bald.

A (23:22)

Cam's fine. Yeah, you're fine. You're not bald. That's good.

B (23:25)

And I mean, I got a couple.

A (23:26)

All the bald guys are like, wait, what? What's he. Bald guys.

B (23:31)

Yeah, that was mean.

A (23:33)

Do you guys know my. Have you ever told you my favorite Family Guy episode of all time? It has to do with bald guys. My favorite clip of all time, Family Guy. There's a bald guy in an elevator and another guy in an elevator. And they're just riding the elevator. It's like the silent, you know, music playing, like elevator music. And then another, the door opens and a third guy gets in the elevator, also bald. So now in the elevator, you got bald guy, hair guy, bald guy. And then it's just awkward music. Typical family style, like, long, extended scene. And then the middle guy, the guy with the hair, gets off the elevator and the door shut, and the two Bald guys look at each other and go, oh, thank goodness. I thought he would never leave. And he goes over, he licks his head. Just licks. And then he leans over, and that guy licks his head. And it's just such an absurd moment of tv. And I tell people, this is what bearded guys do, except for instead of licking, we, like, touch beards together and we, like, meld, like, Avatar style. It's like we all just know it. It's like a code. So, anyway, back to real estate. Lexi is the mastermind behind your real estate.

B (24:31)

I just get to do things like this.

A (24:33)

You get to do podcasts, and she gets run the business and. Hey, Lexi, what are the top three qualities you love most in Cam?

C (24:42)

Oh, okay.

B (24:44)

Nothing dirty, though.

C (24:46)

That just was my top two. So now it does say, oh, yeah.

A (24:50)

Now you gotta say, like, actual normal stuff.

B (24:53)

Weird.

C (24:54)

No. So I love that he is the most fun person I've ever hung out with. After almost 15 years of marriage, I choose him to go on date nights with because he's just so fun. He brings a lot of fun into our life. So fun. And second would be that he can rally anybody. He can get anybody excited about anything. And then third is he's such a good dad. Like, genuinely and truly, he. That's the favorite thing to watch him do is just. Just be with our kids. Our kids watch him and want to be more like him every day. So good dad. He's fun, and he can rally the troops.

A (25:36)

Cam, what are the three things you dislike most about Lexi?

C (25:40)

Not fair.

B (25:42)

Let me. Let me pull out my notebook because I got a running list.

A (25:45)

Cam, what do you love about Lexi? Let's go there. Three things.

B (25:48)

Three things I love about Lexi. Okay. I mean, obviously, like, she's an incredible mom and an incredible wife, but I feel like those are the easy ones, so I'm gonna go a little bit deeper than that. The first thing that I would say is she is the most supportive person that I know in the sense that we got married at 20 years old, and I was like, let's move to Denver. And she was like, okay, let's move to Denver. And then I got a job as a missionary in Belize right after college. And she's like, go for it. Do that. And then was got a job at a church and wasn't making very much money when I was working there. And she's like, but you love this, and this is your dream, and you wanted to be a pastor, so do that. And then was like, well, let's get into Real estate. And so we moved from Denver to St. Louis after we had this incredible group of friends and we did have jobs that we loved. And she's like, all right, let's do that. And then let's move across the country. Or the. Yeah, the country. The world, honestly, to Hawaii. And like, okay, let's do that. And so she's just always like, hey, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna follow our dreams. We're gonna be adventurous. I don't think I could be married to somebody that is just like, hey, I wanna live in one place for the rest of our lives and do the same thing every single day for the rest of our lives. And so she has been supportive through all of that. And that is. I mean, I think for any man that is getting married, like a supportive wife is. And not supportive in, like, oh, I'm doing your laundry and cooking you breakfast. Because she doesn't really do that. Supportive. She did just bring me a cup of coffee. But that she did. I will admit that's not her support. Her supportiveness is not in that. It's like, hey, like, we're in this together and we're going to dream big together and we're going to go for it together in that type of support. So I would say that is what I would say is number one. Number two, I think one of the things that. That we have in our life, and this is great relationally, this is great in the business world. This is great in anything but a figure it out mentality. And I think part of that has to do with our marriage where we haven't ever been on the verge of this, but divorce is just not an option. And when we're not doing well, and obviously we've gone through that before where I don't like her, she doesn't like me, but it's a figure it out mentality of, hey, you know what? We're going to figure. We're adults, we're going to figure this out. And if that means that we. I mean, I'm blabbing, but if that means we have to go to counseling or if that means that we have to talk to other people, or that means that, like, we're going to figure it out, the willingness to always figure it out, raising kids, the willingness to figure it out, like. And then that translates into the business world and our lives of like, hey, business right now is tough. We're going to figure it out, hey, we're going to move across the world to Hawaii. We're going to figure it out. And so, like, having a. A figure it out mentality fit foe. Figure it out.

A (28:57)

Figure it fit fum.

B (28:59)

Fit foe. Something I say a lot. It has a profanity in there. Oh, figure it TF out.

A (29:08)

Okay.

B (29:10)

Mentality.

A (29:11)

That could be a. That could be a book title someday.

B (29:13)

Bitfo. Yeah.

A (29:14)

Another way to say that. Kiyosaki said, poor people say, I can't aff it. Rich people ask, how do I afford it? Similar as, like, some people say, are we going to make it in our marriage? Like, can we raise good kids? And other people ask, like, how are we going to make it? Like, it's not a question of if, it's how. Like, what do we got to do? That belief and that conviction that we will get through no matter what, I think is probably the most important thing in a marriage and raising kids.

C (29:39)

Yeah, I like that.

B (29:40)

I agree. And so she's got that. And then I would say, like, the. The third one would be, she's the best person that I know. And you could probably attest. Well, I mean, like, 60% of the time, but she. Everybody that meets her loves Lexi. She's the kindest, sweetest. She is serving. And that translates, obviously into our marriage as well into the way that we raise kids. And. And, like, the overarching theme is she's the best. Like, she's a phenomenal wife and mom. But, like, I guess I was kind of saying, like, what are some of the characteristics that make her that. And it would be those things.

C (30:19)

Dang.

A (30:19)

It's beautiful. Beautiful.

C (30:21)

I wasn't trying to cry this morning.

B (30:24)

We got date night tonight.

C (30:25)

Thanks, Cam.

B (30:26)

And then.

A (30:27)

Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me just. Wild guess. Pint and cork.

C (30:31)

Maybe a couple beers. Tried and true.

A (30:34)

A few. More than a couple. Yeah. Sounds like a good night. Great. Yeah.

B (30:38)

And, I mean, there's. There has been.

A (30:40)

We.

B (30:40)

We could do an entire. Maybe we, you and I, should start a marriage like a.

A (30:44)

A.

B (30:44)

An entrepreneur, marriage mastermind.

C (30:47)

Ooh, I like that.

B (30:49)

Because there's been. I do feel like we have a great marriage for the most part, and there are just things that we have done in our lives where it's date night. We have done date night every single week for years now. We don't miss a Wednesday night where we're going on a date night, just us two. Actually, the twins are coming along now because they're four months old, so we're doing date nights, working on a business together. We run the business together. Together. Which is really hard in a lot of ways. It's also, I mean, I. There's definitely been times where I've said, if you were an employee, I would fire you right now.

C (31:23)

Oh. And there's definitely where I've tried to quit and I can't.

B (31:28)

So it's not, it's not perfect by any means. But that's the fit foe. That's that, that fit foe mentality of like, hey, we're figuring. We're figuring it out together. And I think that's. I think that that's the, The. So I, I say this, and I might have said this on the, The. The podcast that we did a couple years ago where we're like, real estate sucks right now, and it's what allows me to sleep like a baby at night, is if for some reason, and we are not going to do this and we have so many, like, checks and balances within our business and with our real estate portfolio that it's not going to happen. But if for some reason we were to lose everything tomorrow, there is zero part of me that is worried about what happens to our family in the sense that, like, I've still got my wife, I've still got my kids, we still love each other, and that's really all that we need. And obviously, money is fun and living in Maui is fun and being able to do things like that we want, when we want, how we want is a lot of fun. But at the end of the day, what allows me to continue to build our business and take risks and be the leader that I am is knowing that no matter what, I still have my family and I still have Lexi and I still have my kids. And so I think went on a tangent. I don't even remember what I was talking about there, but. But yeah, that.

C (32:44)

I have one quick question. I'm not trying to hijack Yalls podcast because we have worked together for so long now. Cam, do you think working together has made our marriage better or harder?

B (32:56)

I think it's made it better for sure. Oh, for sure. I mean, we get to spend all day, every day together, and it, It's. I think it's definitely made it better. I think the, the one thing that we've had to put boundaries around is on, like, date nights. Hey, we're leaving work at home. We're not talking about what employee we're mad at or what's going on in the business or the fire that we just had at this house. Like, we do have to put boundaries around work and leaving work. And especially because I do work from the office sometimes, but most time I'm working from home. And so it's like our entire life is. Is marriage, kids, work is within a hundred square foot radius of each other. So that makes it tough, but. But I wouldn't change it at all. I. I think it also, if you do it right, it makes it better.

C (33:50)

Yeah, well, yeah, no, Something that I love about it is that I would never see you in that role if it weren't for us working together. Like, I would never see the side of you that sets big, huge goals in the business and then stays up late, works hard every day to make that happen. I would never see that kind of business side of all the things you're accomplishing, or at least as much of a front seat as I have to it now if we weren't working together. So that's what I love most about doing it with your spouse.

B (34:25)

Yeah, it's a blast. I wouldn't change it for the world.

C (34:29)

Yeah.

A (34:29)

Yeah. Heather. Heather and I worked a ton together before, obviously, having kids. And then once we had kids, she kind of separated out and she runs, you know, a few of the properties we have left out in Western Washington. But that's at a pretty basic level because her mom, actually, she still hired her mom to do most of it. And so, like, we had a closer relationship when we worked together than we do today. And some of that's just having kids. And I mean that in a bad way. Just like we were together 24, seven for 10 years. Like, we were painting houses. And in fact, actually, I would say this, like, it's because we had a common enemy. There was like a big thing, which was like, financial freedom. We had to get it. So we worked together on it. There was like, this is the mission, a common mission, and we're go get it. And then, like, when we got it and then we moved to Hawaii and we had kids. And like, now we have very different missions. Like, I was like, my own mission of growing my personal brand and my real estate empire. And her mission was, like, raising the kids white. Right. And not that we had a bad marriage is that we separated. It wasn't really until, like, the last. Last year where a lot of people heard that podcast. Yeah. A few weeks ago, where we talked about real estate being hard. Like a year ago. Like, things got real hard and real, real. Like, one of the best things for our marriage was just moving to Texas because, like, like we didn't want to move to Texas, but it was like a common mission and we were doing it Together. And then every day we sit and talk for a long time now about what's going on in the business and how to improve it. And what do you know? Our business is working better again. So there. Yeah, there's something powerful about having a common mission. And I would say most couples who end up separating, I mean, this might be a strong statement, but I would say most couples who separated probably lost that common mission somewhere, for sure.

B (35:57)

I think that in. Not a marriage counselor, but I. I think that most marriages that. That don't work out. It's not because one person went out and did something stupid. And it's small choice after small choice of small choice where people are like kind of becoming separated over time.

C (36:18)

And the slow phase.

B (36:20)

It's that slow.

A (36:21)

Yeah, Agreed.

B (36:22)

It's not. It's not like this.

A (36:24)

Is that a casting crown song?

B (36:25)

Yes. Is it?

A (36:26)

Yeah, I've heard that one. Hold on. Ten seconds. Hold on. Ten seconds. Heather. Hold on, hold on. You can keep talking, but Heather brought me food.

B (36:32)

Oh, Heather brought you food? I love it.

C (36:34)

See, look at that.

B (36:34)

See, it's not that I'm not talking to anybody but the camera right now. We can talk. It's the slow fade of things she says. Look at all the time.

A (36:45)

She brought me a steak sandwich.

B (36:49)

I think.

C (36:50)

Oh, my gosh.

A (36:51)

Yeah. Anyway, she said she would say hi, but she was not fully prepared for a video. We'll leave it at that. Keep it pg. All right.

B (37:02)

I think it's alignment, and that's where working together has helped is we have alignment in our life and in our business and with the way that we want to raise our kids.

C (37:13)

And.

B (37:14)

And I couldn't imagine not having that with my spouse.

C (37:19)

And it's feel. It's feeling like you're not doing it alone, too, because I. I know the burden of building a business and being entrepreneur, it's heavy. Same as being a parent and raising your kids. That's a heavy burden. But there's also great reward to both of those things, too. So it's sharing the burdens and sharing the rewards. And I love doing life that way, where you're not alone in entrepreneurship and business and getting us income. And I'm not alone in dealing with tantrums and doing bedtimes and bath time. We're sharing. We're sharing.

B (37:55)

Yeah. And I think that's the best thing. And then also the hardest thing about it, where we don't have our separate silos, which sometimes does make it hard, too, where it's like, almost like in work, where like with eos, you have your like accountability chart. And this is what this person. We don't necessarily have that in our life. Where it's like we're both in the business, but we're both very attentive parents. Where it's like, I'm usually working from 5am till 2 or 3pm and then I'm picking. Well, you pick up the kids from school most of the time now, but going to gymnastics or. No, I'm picking up Cade. Because you're dropping Riley and Callie off at gymnastics and I'm picking up Cade and I'm taking him to the beach and doing something with him. And then at night I'm like. We share the burden where it's of raising kids together and sometimes that is hard. Where it's like you and I have talked about it before. Where it's like it is. To me, it would just be easier. It wouldn't be as fruitful and it wouldn't be as meaningful, but it would be easier if it was like, I'm 100%, like building the business and you're 100% on kid and household duty or something like that. And I know that's, that's very old school to say traditional, but I think that would be easier in a lot of aspects. But I don't think it'd be as fruitful and as fun and we wouldn't be as aligned as a family if we did that. And I'm not saying that people that do that are wrong. It's just that's what we've decided as a family. Sharing all this together and the burdens and the joys and the triumphs and the bad times as well. We get to share all of that together.

C (39:29)

And for now too, different seasons are going to bring different roles. Like, you definitely work more in the business now than I do, whereas in the beginning it was me working more in the business thing. You. You had another job. Oh, when we first, first started, you had another job. But I was full time real estate.

B (39:50)

Yeah.

C (39:51)

So we've kind of switched our roles a lot through the years where I have more to give, so I will. And then you have more to give, so you will.

B (39:59)

That's true. I mean, I think I've said this obviously on podc. Lexi is the one who built the business. When we started, I still, for the first six months of starting the business, I still worked at the church. And then after we got into it, my entire job was. And people ask me, how did you grow so fast? And it was Because I focused on one thing and that was finding houses. Everything else.

C (40:22)

The second you were good at it.

B (40:24)

I was really great at it.

C (40:25)

So it made sense. That's all you should do. And I would do everything else.

B (40:29)

The second I got a house under contract, it went to Lexi. And I did not think about it again. I didn't think about, hey, we need to get tenants for this. We need to rehab this. Like, she built out our entire team of contractors. She built out our property management company. She built out our contract. The only. I actually, I. I was. I bought houses and I raised money. Those were the two things that I did. Outside of that, I did nothing else. And so we were able to sky like hockey stick because that was all I had to worry about. And I couldn't imagine if I had to worry about, hey, every house that I'm buying, I mean, we bought 100 houses our first year. Every house that I'm buying, I now have to be communicating with the title company about closing and where keys at and setting a lockbox on this house and getting contractors over there. And if we're flipping it, setting up the agent or setting up the, the obviously the contractors to, to rent it or if we're, or to, to. To rehab it and if we are renting it, fighting tenants and staying on top of them and building out Buildium or whatever it is and Asana checklist and all of that stuff. And I still don't know much about it. I did not worry about that at all.

A (41:38)

Well, that's such a good lesson too. Whether not even just marriage, but this is the importance of having a team and then well structured avenues on what each person does and then making sure that the thing that that person does is the thing that, that lights them up internally and they're good at it. And they've got the, you know, the, the stamina to be able to actually do that thing. Like when you get the right people focused on one thing and you get a bunch of them and they're all focused on their one thing and combined it's like Power Rangers, like they all come together and it's just, it's such, it's such a powerful thing. And so many people are stuck doing everything themselves.

B (42:10)

You just brought up a fourth one that, that I would say with Lexi that is different than me is when you're asking what are some things the mentally tough is because I don't have the stamina where it's like if you asked me to fill out an Excel spreadsheet or build out systems. Like, I just couldn't do it. And you were really good at doing things that you don't like just because they have to get done. For me, it's like, I'm great with people and that's the avenue that I want to run in. And if you ask me to do anything else, I'm not going to do it. And you're good at just putting my head down. Putting her head down and doing it. And so well. And even like, I don't. We didn't tell our. Our birth story with the twins. I think you know this, Brandon.

A (42:53)

She gave.

B (42:54)

She did a C section without any drugs whatsoever in her body because the first baby came out. First baby came out, second baby lost the heartbeat. And they were like, we've got to. We've got to cut this lady open right now. To save baby number two was the most traumatic experience. I was cussing out doctors. It was not good.

A (43:16)

They.

B (43:16)

They literally said, you need to calm down or we're going to remove you from the hospital. But especially as you're shaking and vomiting because they're. They're cutting into her without any drugs in her body.

A (43:27)

Yeah.

B (43:27)

So ever. And she.

A (43:29)

Lexi, what'd that feel like?

C (43:31)

Torture. But like torture. I just remember this, like, blanket laying on my chest and I just grabbed it with my teeth and just bit down as hard as I could because I. That was all I could do to just insane. The actual pain.

B (43:48)

So part of that was your fault.

A (43:51)

My fault or her fault?

B (43:53)

So. No, no, no, Brandon, it's all your fault. So I guess for people that are listening that are wondering, she was natural for the first three. This one, they had warned us about the possibility of a C section where first baby comes out. Second one is a breach. Is that what it called breaches?

C (44:11)

Yeah. Second one, not uncommon for the second baby to flip.

B (44:15)

And we were induced so that we were induced with the twins. But she wanted to feel the contractions and so she told him, like, hey, let's hold off on any sort of drugs because I know that we're going to do drugs eventually because of the possibility of a C section. But hold off until we get closer to the babies coming. And the babies came really, really fast to where they weren't able to do that. And then second one breached. And so it was, I mean, not your fault. It was just more of a.

A (44:48)

Hey.

B (44:49)

They had warned us.

C (44:51)

Talk about this whole process.

B (44:53)

They had warned us that the possibility of a baby breaching and not being able to get out. They had. We were. We Were ready to do an epidural and all that stuff. But you had said, hey, let's. Let's hold off on that because I want to feel the contractions. And. And so.

C (45:08)

Yes.

A (45:08)

Do you regret that, Lexi? Now, like, looking back, do you wish you would have done it earlier? Are you, like, you know what? I did something hard and.

C (45:14)

No, no, I. I do love how. I mean, the being cut open with no drugs part was. It was actually traumatic. But babies are safe. Babies are healthy. And the.

B (45:27)

Do you think it was more traumatic for me or you? It was traumatic. It really was. I was.

C (45:33)

I can't even answer that one.

B (45:35)

It was so traumatic for me. That was a joke, obviously, but I know about it.

C (45:40)

I guess you did have to watch it.

B (45:42)

I had to watch it all.

C (45:43)

Experiencing it, but watching it and I.

B (45:45)

Don'T know, like, that's traumatic. When they lost Cruz's heartbeat and we're like, we have to get this baby out right now. I mean, full blown panic attack. It was not good at all. And then the other thing that was weird is not weird. I think this is probably normal, Especially with twins, because they were preterm. They were born at 36 weeks, but they let us hold Kaya right when she was born. But then they rushed Kai out of the room. And so that's weird as a parent with twins, where it's like, I want to go be with Kaya as they're working on her, but I also want to. There's another one coming. And so I stayed in the room with. With Lexi and with Cruz. But even that whole situation was so, like, there's just so many emotions. Like. And I think it took me. I think it was. I mean, you'll remember this. I think it was like the second day in the hospital, I just broke down. Like, it was like I had all of this adrenaline and like, in the second day at the hospital, it was just like this huge, like, I. I don't know. After all of that, the traumatic experience and adrenaline, it was just like, holy cow. Like, this was he. The last 48 hours have been so heavy. And Cruise that one night at the hospital stopped breathing and moving and. Oh, my. It was.

A (46:59)

I didn't hear about that. That's wild.

C (47:01)

I wasn't even gonna tell you that, Cam. You walked in and. And the nurse asked about it, and I was like, don't say anything. Don't say anything.

B (47:10)

Oh.

C (47:10)

Because I knew it would freak you out. But it was. It was even. It was nothing. It was just normal baby things.

B (47:16)

Even talking about this is get my heart rate going.

C (47:21)

Breathe in through your nose.

A (47:24)

But you know what?

B (47:24)

The most mentally tough person that I know.

A (47:26)

She's a. Mentally.

B (47:27)

Yeah. Five kids. You'd have to be without any drugs. C section without any drugs. Yeah. You're. You're way more mentally strong than I am.

C (47:37)

Especially just like a little bit crazy maybe.

B (47:40)

You're freaking crazy. Yes. Yeah, there's no doubt about that.

C (47:44)

Mentally strong crazy.

B (47:45)

I mean, but it works because we're both like that in. In a lot of ways where it's. We do things that. That probably don't make sense on paper. We have a lot of fun doing it. I think our. Our personalities are very adventurous and like, we just want to. Why are you laughing?

A (48:04)

Just the way you said that. We have a lot of fun doing it. No, don't we all, man. Don't we all?

C (48:10)

Yes, we need to start count.

B (48:12)

Yes, we do have a lot of fun doing. Doing.

A (48:15)

Sorry. Middle school. Middle school.

C (48:17)

Brandon.

B (48:18)

Y. I was in a deep spot of that conversation where. Where now I'm. Now my train because I'm thinking of doing it where my train of thought is.

C (48:30)

You keep me thinking about that.

B (48:36)

A lot of fun living life. I. I think, okay, there you go. That is what I've always wanted. When I.

A (48:42)

When.

B (48:43)

When I was 18 years old and like looking at. Into the future, it was never about money or fame or fortune or any of that stuff. It was always like, I just want to. Sounds so bad, but like, I just want to have fun. Like, I want to have fun and enjoy life. And I think that can be with money, without money, with the business, without a business. We just have fun.

C (49:06)

I just like making big goals and going for them. Like, life is short. Let's make something of our life and go for big goals.

A (49:15)

Speaking of making big goals, we are doing the goal setting retreat once again. Better life goal setting retreat. We do it every year. We've had thousands of people go through it. It's one of my favorite things we do all year long. It's happening on the third, I believe it is, of January. We'll put it in the description down below. But we are doing the 2026 goal center retreat with better life. You don't have to be a better life tribe member to attend. I highly recommend it. There's a slight cost to it. I think it's like a hundred bucks. But that just ensures people actually show up. Like, literally. This is funny. When you charge for a workshop, which we do a. A few workshops a year. If you do a free workshop. 10% of people show up. When you do a paid workshop, even if it's a low price, like 80% of people show up. It's wild. People show up to what they put their money in, which is why we charge everyone now for our workshops. We're gonna set goals together. Well, let me ask you a question then. How do you two maintain that fun in your marriage and in your life and your parenting during hard times? Like, this has been a hard year. We just talked about that on the podcast recently. It's been a hard year for real estate. We're setting goals and then not hitting them them. Like how do you maintain the fun in your relationship and life and not let that drag down everything?

C (50:14)

Practice, because it doesn't come natural. Like whenever everything is kind of falling apart or it seems like everything is falling apart around you, it is hard to be intentional about. Like, hey, we also have to have fun. But I think something that I've learned from parenthood, which is pretty common, you have to fill your cup to be able to fill other people's cup. So same thing in business. Like I need to be a healthy version of myself to be the best leader I can be and to be the best wife I can be and to be the best leader or mom I can be. So fun is part of that, like just being intentional about creating fun spaces, date night and just, yeah, still having fun even when everything feels like it's crashing and burning.

B (51:04)

And I think for me, I'm probably, I'm different from you in that because you actually get more stressed out about like the business side of things. I get way more stressed out about like our kids and health and things like that. For me, and I said this earlier, I always just go through, especially when it's hard in business and thank God like in, in like family and health wise, we haven't had a ton of having to do that yet because I don't know what I would do. I think I would, I would go crazy. And like when it. What is business related, kid? I'm always a. What's the worst that can happen? Like we, we move into my parents basement or your parents basement and fortunately we have families that would allow us to move into their basement. I know that. And we've got families that are never gonna let us go hungry. We've got families that we're always gonna have a roof over our head. Thank God that we're fortunate enough to say that. And I'm like, the worst that can happen is we start over and so I, I don't get stressed about money or business. You honestly should be more stressed about that because I owe you $1.2 million. I don't get stressed.

A (52:09)

I'm not too stressed about it. It's fine. Whatever.

B (52:11)

What is it?

A (52:13)

Whatever. Yeah, whatever.

C (52:14)

You're both wired that way.

B (52:15)

Yeah, I, I will get stressed about that. Yeah.

A (52:18)

You could call me. You'd be like, hey, man, it's all falling apart. Lost everything. Sorry, you know, whatever. It sucks. Take the house back.

B (52:26)

Yeah.

A (52:27)

And I'd be like, like, yeah, that does suck. How can I help you, man? We would both just be like. And we'd go get, go to Pine Cork afterwards.

B (52:33)

Yeah.

A (52:34)

That's all friendship should be.

B (52:35)

Yeah. And I, for me, I just don't get stressed about that stuff. And so it's really easy for me to leave work at work. I mean, we started this whole conversation about Maui, but there's also just a. There is an energy and a life that is here on Maui that I've, I've not experienced anywhere else in the world where it's like, yes, you can have the worst day in the world and I can sit on our lanai and watch the sunset, or I can go to the green space in front of Mauna Kai or go to Kiava Kapu and like, all is good in the world. I, I watched the sunset and I think part of that's also a God thing where I'm just like. There's that verse of like the. Look at the lilies of the field and the birds of the air. Like if I take care of. And I'm butchering this verse so much, but like, if I can take care of them, like can I not take care of you and I.

A (53:29)

That's pretty, that's pretty good paraphrase.

B (53:31)

Yeah. Like I'm, I'm looking out right now at the ocean, palm trees, the pool, beautiful flowers. Like life is good. Even if business sucks. Which actually the last couple months, it hasn't sucked. Life is really, really good. And so just. And then also knowing, like, if I don't live in Maui and we have to live in your parents basement, like, life is still good. Like we're, we're, we're, we're in a great spot. We have a beautiful family, we've got five healthy kids, have a good marriage. We'll figure it out, we'll fit for it. So I guess that was a long answer to your question, but.

A (54:12)

Well, we gotta start moving towards the end of the show. We're gonna wrap Up. But I am going to get the URL here for the goal setting retreat in just a moment. It's coming. I know. Matt Buck saw me. I see his little texting thing coming back to me.

B (54:24)

So one more. The deepest question you can think of.

A (54:28)

Lexi.

C (54:29)

Yes.

A (54:29)

If Cam were to pass away, ooh, how long until you remarry? Or would you?

B (54:38)

No.

C (54:38)

We've asked each other this question before, and I say no. I'm. I'm single for the rest of my life. I'm never, never marrying again.

B (54:48)

She's never gonna fight freaking hunk like this. Don't ask me. I'm not saying that. The kids need a mom. Not a mom. You're the other mom. But they.

A (54:58)

They need another mom. Kids need two moms. That's what they need. What do you say, Cam? Expand on this a little bit.

B (55:05)

What do you.

C (55:05)

Polar opposite. My answer.

A (55:08)

Yeah.

B (55:09)

It would never be the same. I'm not gonna lie to her. I'm not gonna say something that's. That's probably not true and then feel bad about when she is dead, saying, like, I'm going back on what I told my. My now dead wife.

C (55:24)

It's okay.

B (55:24)

I would probably get remarried.

C (55:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (55:27)

There you go.

B (55:29)

I'd have to go to counseling about it. I would tell them that, hey, you're never gonna live up to the expectations before, but I need. I need somebody in my life that's. That's a life partner to help.

C (55:43)

Hey, I get it. You do?

B (55:44)

Good.

A (55:45)

I got a deeper question on the podcast.

B (55:47)

So if I do die, you can't get remarried or everything?

A (55:49)

Yeah. Now. Now it's public.

C (55:51)

That's already my plan.

A (55:53)

Well, I got. I got a deeper question. Have you guys had the whole past conversation in your marriage? And if so, who's on it?

C (56:00)

LeBron James. I thought.

B (56:02)

For me.

A (56:02)

For me. Yes.

B (56:05)

I have told her.

C (56:06)

Yeah.

B (56:06)

Like, if.

A (56:07)

Okay. If. If you and LeBron there.

B (56:09)

I love LeBron James.

A (56:11)

Right?

C (56:12)

That's it. He doesn't.

A (56:13)

Nobody for Lexi.

C (56:14)

No, no, absolutely not. He does not.

A (56:17)

Have you guys seen that trend on TikTok where it starts with things I've shoved up my back end, and then the wife will go, me. Have you not seen it? It's so funny. So what they'll do is they'll the. The wife. You start with the wife going, things I've shoved up my what? Rear end? Me. Nothing. My husband. And it'll. It'll cut to him and he'll just stand. Start naming off objects. Right. And they clearly asked him some other question. And then stitched together.

B (56:41)

Yes.

A (56:42)

Yeah. But I saw one the other day. I saw the other day. It was like the girl goes, it's actually Jessica who came out with Kinsey back in the day during the fire. Anyway, yeah. Jess and her husband, she goes, people we have on our hall passes. Me, no one, of course. And then she goes, the clip goes to her husband and he's like, oh, Brad Pitt, George Clooney. He just like naming all. All these men. He's like, oh, I would take both of them. Both of them at the same time. And it's just so funny. Anyway, sorry. It's my favorite TikTok trend right now.

B (57:11)

Like the husband. It was. It was something like that where they asked an awkward question. Yeah. Like nothing. And then I need obviously asked me why, like what. What are you. What do you need from Target today? Or something like that.

A (57:23)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

B (57:23)

Socks. I need batteries.

A (57:25)

I need this. I need as.

B (57:27)

So like in. He was going down the list of like all of these household items from. From Target or something like that.

C (57:36)

I gotta go look that up.

B (57:37)

Yes, I did.

A (57:38)

See, it's pretty great. It's pretty great. All right, everyone. The goal setting website is betterlife goal setting.com, so betterlife goal setting.com sign up. It's 97 bucks. It'll be a three hour event where we're gonna walk, work through from like a far vision of your life. Where do you want to see yourself in three to five years? We're going to do a wheel of life assessment. So on what areas of your life are working well, what needs some additional pressure and work applied to. We'll set three annual goals and we'll set three quarterly goals for Q1, as well as nine to 12 habits that you're going to focus on in the new year. It is unbelievably awesome. Every time we do this. I would love you to be there. Cam and Lexi have done it. I've done it many years and you should all do it.

C (58:21)

It.

B (58:21)

We'll also be at the REI summit.

A (58:23)

In April and that's also happening in April. You. It's going to be a great time. And that URL is reisummit2026.com so. All right, everybody, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast. Lexi, thanks for crashing this. This was great.

C (58:37)

Hey, I loved it.

A (58:38)

Cam was getting pretty boring, so I'm glad that you.

C (58:40)

You were here, but I walked through the door.

A (58:42)

Yeah, it's great. All right, well, everybody else, thank you so much. Leave comments, ratings, reviews, all those things. If you're not watching this on YouTube, you should watch on YouTube. It's fun. We do this on video. So check out our YouTube channel. Just eardy right now. Maybe I'll change the name sometime, but right now it's still @BardyBrandon on YouTube. Cam. Where can people find you?

B (58:58)

Cam Cathcart, I think.

A (59:00)

Yeah. On Instagram.

B (59:01)

On Instagram. Yeah. That's really all I've got.

A (59:03)

That's great.

B (59:04)

Should Lexi and I start a Better life marriage podcast?

A (59:07)

Ooh, you could. Oh, it's an interesting idea. I don't. Here's how you do that. You would not start one. You would say, we're going to do a marriage episode, and then you two together do a marriage episode. And if it does well, then you lean into it and you do another one. And then if it does well, then we spin it off onto a show. Right? Like Lean Startup style. Lean viable product.

B (59:26)

Ah, yeah. It's common.

A (59:28)

So maybe. Maybe in a few weeks, you guys can do a show by just you two, and we'll see if the audience likes it. Maybe they'll like Lexi more than me. Probably will. And then I'll be out of a job. It's very possible.

C (59:39)

Not gonna happen.

A (59:41)

All right. All right, guys, get out of here.

B (59:43)

Thanks so much, Portal Lane. I will see you in three or four weeks.

A (59:47)

Yeah, we'll hang out. It'll be fun. Bye, guys.

B (59:49)

See you.

C (59:50)

Bye.