A (2:32)

Yeah, maybe once in a while.

B (2:35)

So we're going to look at that. But there's a number of very important things that take place in this relatively small period of salvation history, which is about 40 years.

A (2:46)

Right. And those 40 years are covered by the narrative book in numbers, which is interesting because one of the things that we find out, it's like, as you noted, the narrative book being numbers is typically, I think, for a lot of people, the one where we don't lose the story. We are traveling with the people of Israel and with the covenant people of God. And so that in some ways, we look forward kind of maybe more eagerly to those narrative, that narrative book, the Book of Numbers. But at the same time, as you noted, Book of Deuteronomy has so many powerful words of encouragement, words of law, words of justice, direction from the Lord that can immediately be applied to our life, as well as the fact that numbers can sometimes. Well, even the fact that it's called the Book of Numbers might mean that some sections might be a little bit hard to get through because they're not going to be so much narrative as much as it's going to be counting or giving off a list of names of people that we might not be familiar with. What do people do with that?

B (3:44)

Right. Well, you know, there are sections of the Bible that seem rather boring, whether it's numbering off the tribes and telling us how many numbers, number of people there are in each particular tribe, or so and so begot, so and so begot so and so. And while they might be boring, they're actually very critical. They're very important, particularly for the person who wants to go a little bit deeper into the story of the Bible. For example, the so and so begot. So and so is actually a literary device called a Toledot. And a Toledot in Hebrew is sort of like a lens where you're going from wide angle to narrow. And it's a way of going from the broad picture down to one man. And that's a literary device that kind of takes you by the hand and walks you there. So while they might seem boring, they're very useful. They're very powerful and good for understanding the story. But we pick up in the Book of Numbers and it's important to realize that when numbers starts, they are still at Mount Sinai. In our last period, they were at Mount Sinai for one year, and they received the tabernacle, the priesthood, and the law. These were the three major changes. And then shortly after that, now in the Book of Numbers, they're going to break camp. But before that, there is like a recapping of the Exodus story. They go back and they look at that story a bit as they do in Deuteronomy. But the major launching point in the Book of Numbers really is the tenth chapter. You know, they were prepared as God's people to go up and take the promised land. They had not been up there since way back, you know, hundreds of years when Abraham was there and Jacob and Isaac and Jacob and then Joseph. But now they're going to make their way back into the promised land. But there's going to be a test. And, you know, there's tests all along in salvation history. There was at the beginning, there is at the end, there's. Well, there is in our own lives today. So the test is going to be as they break camp in chapter 10, they're going to send spies up into the land, which is not very far. And they stop at a place called Kadesh Barnea. And Kadesh Barnea comes from the word Kadesh comes from kadosh. Kadosh is holy, separated ones. And so Kadesh Barnea, the city, acts as sort of a launching point where they're going to see if they are really the separate ones, and they're going to trust God and go into the land or. Or whether they're going to retreat. Well, they send 12 spies up and they come back and they give their report. Two of them, Joshua and Caleb, said, we can take it. Ten of them said, there's no way there's giants in the land. It's great fruit and everything else, don't get me wrong. But there's giants in the land. And so when they came back and gave the report, God said, so be it. For every day that you are spying out the land, you will wonder for a year in this wilderness. And so how many days do we think they were up in the land? Yeah, 40. So 40 years now they're going to be wandering in the desert. And that's really the story of the Book of Numbers and this period, which, you know, we recall, the number 40 is a number of testing. Like Lent. It is a number of testing. It's a number of finding out who you. Who you really are. And we See it over and over in the Bible and especially with Jesus. 40 days in the wilderness. So that's where we're at in the story right now. We broke camp in Chapter 10 of Numbers, sent spies up north, they came back with no way, not going to happen. And that was chapter, that was chapter 13.

A (7:37)

And then what happens after that is how the story then unfolds, right as they're led into the wilderness, which is what a lot of us associate with, I don't know, desert wanderings is that since, as you noted, God's plan was that they would trust him and go into the, to take the land not by their own power, but by trusting in him and by God's power that he would fulfill his promises that he had made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. But. And yet the people, you know, I wonder so often that when it comes to here they are having been slaves for 400 years and maybe even given their hearts to other gods, that here they are not knowing how to trust God, not knowing the identity of God, not knowing the character of God and not knowing exactly how to trust Him. And that sounds like that desert wanderings of those 40 days are testing. And also maybe. Would you also say training? Because I like to say that, but I don't want to. It's testing, but also I'm being trained in trust. Is that accurate or is that kind of me just putting that in there?

B (8:39)

Yeah, no, no, I think so, absolutely. You know, God said, I brought you out here into the wilderness. I brought you out here to show you something. And I brought you out here to show you that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And that's a real lesson for us today too. You know, it's one thing to read through the Bible in a year. It's another thing to trust God, you know, with, with what you are reading and you're putting it into practice, you're making a mental ascent to it, and then you're giving your personal entrusting to God. And it's important to remember during this desert wandering period that in this 40 years, the older generation, those over 20, they're going to die out in the wilderness. They're not going in to the promised land. It's going to be those who are under 20 that they're going to grow up and they're going to be close to 60 now, you know, and they're the ones that are going to be going into the promised land. And the fearless leader that brought them out. Moses, he's not going to go into the Promised Land because he disobeyed the Lord a couple of times, and he's going to die on Mount Nebo just prior to going into the Promised Land. And it's going to be Joshua that ultimately takes them in. So our attention needs to be on that younger generation, because that's going to be important later on in the narrative and especially when we get to the Gospels. Just remember that it's like one of those points. But, Father, I want to bring up one thing that's really interesting here. And when you and I go to Israel, we oftentimes will see the Jewish people in Israel. They have little strands of string on the four corners of their garment. And a lot of people ask, well, what is that? What is it? And you commented on this earlier, and it says in the Book of Numbers, this is where it happens, that God wants them related to trust. He wants them to be people who are focused on His Word. You know, we just said, man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And he brought them out into the wilderness for this. But then he even makes them dress in such a way that. That there's like a sacramental that will remind them of His Word in the desert. So you have these four tassels called tzitzit, or plural tzitziot. And they are tied on the four corners of their garment, and they are tied in such a way as to represent the 613 commandments of the Torah. So that means that when you see those tzitziot, you are reminded that you are a son, you're a daughter of the commandments. And this is where you learn to trust God. And it would be neat if we had something like that today, where 247 we were just reminded, I'm a son of God's Word, right?

A (11:30)

In that sense of like, even. Even, as you noted, that tzitzit or tzitziot, those strings or strands, are meant to represent the 613 commandments or commands of the Lord. And as we establish, I think, throughout the course of Exodus is those commandments aren't given first, they're given after the relationship. Like God's established a covenant. And here's the commandments. And so what they would do is they were clothing themselves, right, with this reminder of God's commands, but also that would be clothing with a reminder of the extension of the covenant, like that this is the relationship that you have. And I mean, it's Kind of like we would have scapulars or we would have a crucifix. I've been claimed by Christ. There's something like that. But so powerful to be able to clothe yourself in that kind of. To literally clothe yourself in that way. That would be a reminder all day of the fact that you've been claimed.

B (12:24)

Yeah. And, you know, there's so many wonderful things that happen or interesting things I should say, that happen in the Book of Numbers. You have the Nazarite vow, you have the 70 leadership pattern of 70 leading. You have the bronze serpent, the desert wanderings as foreshadowing something in the future which is Jesus. But there's also the, the priestly blessing. And this was a blessing that I said over my daughters every day before they went to school. No doubt you have said this. It's in the mass. We wait for the final blessing. And that's Numbers, chapter six, which says the Lord said to Moses, say to Aaron and his sons, thus you shall bless the sons of Israel. You shall say to them, the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace or shalom. And so that blessing becomes a major theme in the narrative now. And in fact, on the three pilgrimages, the festivals, every year when they went to Jerusalem, which will be later, they go there for that blessing. And that's what we receive as the last thing at mass. Bow your head and receive God's blessing. Unfortunately, sometimes one tenth of the people are sitting in their car outside at that very point. But I digress. So, yeah, so that's where we're at with the Book of Numbers. And the Book of Numbers has an amazing chapter, chapter 33, that I would draw everyone's attention to. And as you read it, it's going to be really a cool reminder of everything that has happened. It's all the stages of Israel's journey from Egypt. So if you want a mini story of the. Of the story, you can go to chapter 33. And you get from Egypt all the way till. Till the present. And then we have Moses, last letter, his last speech, which is Deuteronomy, the second Law. And this is an amazing book. And it's structured in such a way where the first part of it looks back as to where they came from. And it's kind of like, well, it looks back at where they were and the last part looks forward to where they're going in the middle is where we're at right now. So it's kind of like looking into the rear view mirror as we're moving forward. Right. And God is going to place them. Okay, you were here in the past. You're going here. This is where you're at now. Let me say something to you that is very, very important. And that is I'm going to share with you the secret to living in a country that worships foreign gods and they sacrifice children and they want your sons and daughters. And of course, that's the Canaanites, because they're getting ready now to cross the Jordan river from the east towards the west. And they're going to take Jericho, the first city, and that's going to be the next period of Joshua and the Judges. But they are just ready to do it. And Moses gives them the key. He gives them the key and some lessons that are very, very important. Want to hear those?

A (15:47)

I'm on the edge, literally on the edge of my seat, as you're saying. What is the key to this? Because if that is applicable to him, that's definitely going to be helpful and useful and necessary for us.

B (15:59)

Right? Okay. There's really two keys here. The first one is the most famous verse in the entire Bible for the Jewish people. They say it every day. Jesus said it every day. Those in Auschwitz said it before they died. People in difficulties say it. And that is Deuteronomy 6. 4. And I'll give it to you in Hebrew, and it is Shema, Israel, Adonai Eloheino, Adonai echad. Hear O Israel. The Lord our God is one Lord and you shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your soul and with all of your might. Now that is one key right there. And that if you're going to go over and take that land, you have to live. And that land, by the way, is a land of many gods.

A (16:47)

Right?

B (16:47)

But the key is you've got to live your life as though there's one God. And that is your message, that's your testimony, that's your witness is there's only one God. And that's true for us today. But we have to ask, when people look at our lives, do they come up with a conclusion that we serve four gods? Maybe money, technology, sports and oh yeah, church, God, you know. So that is really, really key.

A (17:13)

So the idolatry, I mean, knowing they're going to come into a land of idolatry, of idols, they left the land of idols and that's what, you know, Moses begins with talking about the land of Egypt. There were slaves. You're going into this land of idols, and. But you have to be. You have to know that the one true God is yours and you serve him alone.

B (17:31)

Now, the second key is one that really hits home, and it's something that we can do something about. If we're going to live in America right now, or Canada or wherever people are listening from around the world. If we're going to live in this culture, we have to have a witness in our life, our marriage, our money, our fathering, our mothering, our politics. Everything has to be a witness that there's only one God that we're worshiping. The second one is you have to diligently teach your children. Now, this isn't just an option or kind of like, hey, we have a good family. We kind of teach our kids. This is the prescribed formula for success in a foreign land that is opposed to God and the Gospel. And so Moses said, and these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart. And you shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up, and you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontals between your eyes, and you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. So when we talk about, you must teach your children, it's in the broader context of your home. And God says that you should even write these words of mine on the doorposts of your house. And when you go to Israel today, you'll see these little boxes with these scriptures inside of it nailed to the doorposts of their house. And when they come into their house, they kiss what's called the mezuzah. Mezuzah means doorpost in Hebrew. When they kiss that. When they kiss that, they are saying that my home will be ruled by the word of God. And that's what's happening when they go into the promised land is God says, if you want to be successful, you've got to live like there's only one God, me. And you have to teach your children, and your home has to become what Israel called a mikdash ma'. At. That is a small temple where you worship me. You teach your children. That is the key to success. Now we have to look at our current situation in the United States and ask ourselves, is it because we have not done those two commands. One, God, our family, our home, our children. That lands us in a place where we've lost our narrative, which is what Israel is going to do, because they're not going to obey what God is telling them to do here. And this, I cannot tell you how critical this is, not only to the story and the narrative, but also our lives today.

A (20:20)

Yeah, that makes so much sense, too. I hear you describing the Shema, the hero, Israel, and then extending that by saying, teach these to your children and have them on your doorposts, on your arms, on your frontlets, between your eyes.

B (20:35)

And.

A (20:36)

And what it seems like is this. Be interiorly converted yourself, like, belong fully to the Lord yourself, and pass it on. And not just pass it on from a stage or pass it on through a microphone, but pass it on to your children. I mean, to the people who are living in your house with you. And there's that sense of like. It seems that this is the way in which, in the New Covenant the Church has been able to grow, is that you have people who are personally converted. They know that they've been made into sons and daughters of the Father through the power of the Holy Spirit. And then they teach that to those who are in their immediate vicinity in passing on the faith that they have. So that sense, I see here too, In Deuteronomy chapter 6, is that sense of being personally converted so that you can share what you've received, that they'd be personally changed by this, so that by that change others may experience the same thing that's changed you. And just, I don't know, it just seems kind of like a. Such a powerful opportunity for us to. Like, as you're saying, we could have missed this. We could have not done this yet, and yet now we can. As you noted, they pray it every day, in every situation, every season. And so we don't have to mourn the fact that maybe we haven't done that. We can mourn it, but then we have to do it. And it's not too late right now. We can do that ourselves.

B (21:54)

Let me give you another interesting insight, Father, as all of our friends are reading with you through this period in chapter 17, there's going to be just a few words that will be the key to understanding in the future. Israel asking for a king. Because when they come into the land, they're going to ask for a king in 1 Samuel, in 1 Samuel 7, they're going to ask for a king, and God is going to give them a king. But There's a warning about it given back here in Deuteronomy. And it's Deuteronomy 17:14, where God says, when you come to the land which the Lord your God gives you, you possess it. And you possess it and dwell in it, and then say, I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me. You may indeed set as king over you him whom the Lord your God will choose. But then he gives three things that the king should not have, which. Just keep this in your back pocket, because this is going to be the downfall of those three kings. And that is going to be Saul, David and Solomon. And particularly this is going to be applicable to Solomon. Now listen to this. These are the three. You must not have multiple horses, you must not have many wives, and you shall not greatly multiply silver and gold. Okay, so those are the three. And these typically are related to foreign alliances. Now, I'm just saying this now because this is really important, that when we come to 1 Samuel 7, and this is after Joshua and Judges, and they're going to ask for a king, we've got to remember what was spoken through Moses earlier. And that is okay. You can have a king. And if it's. If it's who I say, you can have. But do not let them have many horses and chariots, not much gold and not many wives. And we'll see later in the story how this became a downfall for Israel.

A (24:03)

Yeah. In fact, the downfall in so many ways, that is such a great. I remember reading through this, thinking, exactly. Here's Solomon, you know, after. After David and Jeff, I would ask you just, you know, because we're coming to a close here. Are there any. As you noted, we have. That also have the bronze serpent and that four foreshadowing of Christ. And we have the stories of, you know, the reason why Moses was not able to enter to the promised land. And even though he was so faithful for so long, there is an. There's an aspect of. Of responsibility and an aspect of. Of kind of weight that is given to those who are. Are leaders of the people that they are called upon. You know, all these. There's a lot of these elements. You mentioned the Nazarite vow. Are there any passages from numbers or Deuteronomy that you would say passages or snippets that you want. People who are listening to this are doing the Bible in here, like, focus on. You already mentioned the Shema. You've mentioned some other pieces like, you know, that being clothed with the commands of God but any other snippets that you'd say highlight when you know this day is coming? Here is something to really set your heart on this or to really open your ears, open your mind, open your heart for.

B (25:13)

Yeah, you know, there's so much in Deuteronomy, numbers in Deuteronomy. And, you know, Jesus even refers to it, like in Deuteronomy 24, when Moses, he makes a provision for divorce, but it was because of the hardness of their heart. And the Pharisees are going to call that on Jesus and say, well, Moses said it was okay. And Jesus said, yeah, but it wasn't that way from the beginning. And they're referring to Deuteronomy 24. He said, it's due to the hardness of your heart. I would say that Deuteronomy 16 is another important one, because this is where they are told that three times a year they're to make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. And the pilgrimage to the Holy Land was a beautiful time. And later, when David comes on the scene, they're going to start to read and sing psalms on the way to Jerusalem during these pilgrimages and get their heart right before God. And that's what we experience when we go to mass every week. It's sort of like a mini pilgrimage, if you will. And that mini pilgrimage is where we prepare our hearts to go up to meet the Lord into not just where the Lord's presence is, but his real presence, which comes into our life and nurtures us and gives us that strength. So these are really good. It's all good. And I'm really looking forward to going through it. And just remember, Numbers is the narrative book. Deuteronomy is the last speech of Moses, and it introduces a number of things, and it's right before they go in. And later, Jesus will remove some of these laws in Deuteronomy because of his fulfillment. But Deuteronomy is very, very important.

A (27:03)

Yeah. And that. That sense of. I love the. The notion of just picturing Moses here giving this final speech, this final sermon, and where, however you want to describe it as, As a. In certain sense, one who's carried these people like a father or who's carried these people like a grandfather, who knows that I know you're going to be unfaithful, and yet I have to have to remind you and encourage you. These are the things like, at this point, Moses knows the heart of the people. He knows what's happened in the past. He knows where they're going to be led into. And he also knows their weaknesses. He knows where they're going to be most tempted to be unfaithful to God. And so I just, I see this and can hear this through that lens of here is a father who's desperate, a father who desperately loves his, the people, but also desperately loves the Lord and knows that these people are going to encounter challenges, that in the past they failed, in the future they will fail. And yet just remember these things. Remember these things and keep them before you always, because God will be fulfilling everything he's promised. And I just. And you mentioned, I love that lens.

B (28:12)

Yes. And adding to that lens that he will fulfill everything he's promised. In numbers, chapter 24, we have one of the greatest real prophecies of the coming of Jesus, which is Balaam's prophecy. And he says, I see him, but not now. I see him, but not now. And this is chapter 24 in verse 17. I see him, but not now. I behold him, but not near. A star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel. And this is the prophecy of the lion of the tribe of Judah. The scepter shall not depart from Judah. So all of the Old Testament's Christocentric, sometimes it's really blatant like this, you know, but we're reminded all along the narrative there is one coming that's going to make sense out of all this and fulfill all of this and is going to be the Lord and king of our lives as well.

A (29:10)

So good and leading, as you said, Christocentric, all points to Jesus, even the hidden parts, even the parts that are less, less obvious. And so, so grateful. Jeff. I, I'm so grateful for these introductions to these different time periods because I think it adds so much more that most of us would never know on our own. And you're such a great and blessed teacher that. And gifted. And thank you so much for spending your time. For all of us who are listening to this, to be able to get keyed up right and in the right posture to go into the desert with the people of Israel. And so thank you so much. Any last words or any last thoughts before we close with the prayer?

B (29:47)

I would just say, if you're listening to this during one of the most unusual times in American history of COVID or whether Covid is in the rearview mirror, like Deuteronomy, it can be a desert. And when you read through this, listen to what the Lord is saying to you. In a time of silence, in a time of being quarantined in a time of being formed. Don't waste it.

A (30:11)

Amen. Let's say just say a prayer to ask the Lord to seal that in our hearts. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Father in heaven, we thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for Jeff and his ability to teach his wisdom and knowledge of your word that he has a heart for you and a heart for people to be able to share this. We thank you for all your good gifts and we ask that you please, as Jeff noted, help us to never forget that you are with us whether we are in the promised land or whether we are in the wilderness, whether we're in times of plenty or in times of scarcity. Father in heaven, help us to always remember you are faithful to your promises and in our weakness, help us to be faithful to you. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. We are praying. We're praying for you. Thank you for praying for us, for me and for Jeff and for all those who are working on this Bible in the Year podcast. My name is Fr. Mike and I cannot wait to to see you tomorrow. God bless.