'28 Years Later': Death, Zombies, and One of the Year's Best Movies

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Big Picture" Episode: '28 Years Later': Death, Zombies, and One of the Year's Best Movies

Introduction In this episode of The Big Picture, hosted by Sean Fennessey and Amanda David from The Ringer, along with guest Rob Harvilla, the trio delves deep into the much-anticipated film "28 Years Later", the third installment in the acclaimed 28 Zombie series. Released on June 21, 2025, this episode offers a comprehensive review, exploring the film's narrative depth, thematic elements, and technical achievements, positioning it as one of the year's standout movies.

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[23:08] Overview of "28 Years Later" Rob Harvilla begins by introducing "28 Years Later," highlighting its significance as a reunion of the original 28 Days Later team, featuring director Danny Boyle and writer Alex Garland. This collaboration promises a blend of Boyle's visionary direction and Garland's incisive storytelling, setting high expectations for the sequel.

Notable Quote:

"This new movie stars Jodie Comer, Aaron Taylor Johnson, Ralph Fiennes, Alfie Williams, who is really the star of the movie." – Rob Harvilla [25:14]

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[26:21] Amanda David's Initial Impressions Amanda shares her initial reactions, emphasizing the film's ability to create a believable world and emotionally invest the audience. She notes the intense visceral effects and the film's success in balancing horror elements with deep emotional resonance.

Notable Quote:

"I cried. I was mad about crying. And I do want to talk about that." – Amanda David [26:45]

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[28:00] Sean Fennesy's Enthusiastic Review Sean Fennesy expresses high praise, categorizing "28 Years Later" as one of his favorite films of the year. He commends the movie for its rich social commentary on issues like national identity and fears surrounding infection and disease, all woven seamlessly into the zombie genre.

Notable Quote:

"One of my favorites of the year. Up there with sinners and warfare and black bag bursting with ideas." – Sean Fennesy [28:00]

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[29:01] Thematic Exploration and Social Commentary Rob delves into the film's exploration of a fallen empire, drawing parallels to post-Brexit isolationism. He appreciates how the movie doesn't shy away from hardcore genre elements while embedding profound themes about society and governance.

Notable Quote:

"There is an elegiac tone to a lot of what's happening and the sadness between the parents and the child." – Rob Harvilla [29:01]

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[34:25] Visual and Technical Mastery The discussion shifts to the film's unique cinematography, shot entirely on an iPhone 15 Pro Max. This choice adds a grainy, intimate feel to the movie, enhancing the immersive experience and highlighting the chaos of the post-virus world.

Notable Quote:

"It is very exciting to see what the exit scores and all that stuff are, because horror audiences tend to vacillate." – Rob Harvilla [35:48]

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[37:01] Symbolism and Folklore Sean brings attention to the film's symbolic depth, comparing it to classics like Sorcerer and The Lighthouse. The movie interweaves folklore elements, creating a rich tapestry that elevates the horror narrative to a more nuanced exploration of human experience and survival.

Notable Quote:

"A combination of Ken Loach's Kez with Cannibal Holocaust." – Sean Fennesy [36:08]

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[43:08] Production Insights and Soundtrack Rob discusses the remarkable production choices, including extensive use of extras and practical effects that avoid a cheap digital look. The soundtrack, featuring a blend of instrumental and vocal tracks by a rock-hip-hop Scottish group, complements the film's intense atmosphere.

Notable Quote:

"All of his movies, maybe, barring Yesterday, have the best soundtracks." – Rob Harvilla [65:35]

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[46:20] Character Development and Performances Amanda and Sean commend the performances, particularly Jodie Comer and Ralph Fiennes. Comer's portrayal adds emotional depth, while Fiennes delivers a compelling performance as the enigmatic Alpha, bringing a Shakespearean gravitas to his role.

Notable Quote:

"He can do the most with the least amount of screen time." – Sean Fennesy [55:06]

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[51:11] Plot Twists and Genre Integration The film's narrative prowess is highlighted through its unexpected plot twists and seamless integration of genre elements. The birth of a zombie child serves as a pivotal moment, blending horror with profound thematic questions about humanity and survival.

Notable Quote:

"It's a very audacious for a mainstream studio horror movie that is the third in the series to completely pivot stylistically." – Rob Harvilla [37:01]

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[56:10] Symbolic and Cultural References The movie incorporates deep Christian symbols and cultural references, adding layers of meaning to the narrative. The portrayal of childbirth as a moment that temporarily halts the rage virus underscores the film's exploration of sacrifice and hope amidst chaos.

Notable Quote:

"It's a very dark and haunted and unusual kind of stuff." – Rob Harvilla [35:48]

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[65:11] Audience Reception and Critical Acclaim Sean and Amanda discuss the film's positive reception, noting its appeal to both horror enthusiasts and general audiences. The movie's ability to balance gore with emotional storytelling has garnered widespread acclaim, positioning it as a must-watch in the genre.

Notable Quote:

"But across the spectrum, people are loving the Alpha and what he's swinging with." – Sean Fennesy [78:36]

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Conclusion 28 Years Later emerges as a masterful continuation of the 28 Days Later legacy, blending intense horror with profound social commentary and emotional depth. Through innovative cinematography, compelling performances, and intricate thematic exploration, the film stands out as one of the year's best. Sean Fennessey, Amanda David, and Rob Harvilla's insightful discussion underscores the movie's multifaceted brilliance, making a strong case for its critical and audience acclaim.

Final Notable Quote:

"I have less skin in the game with Bruce, so I think you could, if you're famous enough, I think you can do it." – Rob Harvilla [06:55]

Timestamp References:

• Introduction: [23:08]
• Amanda's Impressions: [26:21]
• Sean's Review: [28:00]
• Themes: [29:01]
• Visuals and Technical Aspects: [34:25]
• Symbolism: [37:01]
• Production and Soundtrack: [43:08]
• Performances: [46:20]
• Plot Twists: [51:11]
• Symbols and References: [56:10]
• Reception: [65:11]
• Conclusion: Throughout the episode, culminating in final thoughts.

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Listener Takeaway For those who haven't caught the episode, the hosts passionately advocate for 28 Years Later not just as a thrilling zombie movie but as a cinematic piece rich with social commentary and emotional depth. Whether you're a die-hard horror fan or someone who appreciates films that offer more than mere scares, this movie—and this episode's insightful analysis—are well worth your time.

Transcript

[Rob Harvilla]

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Except we did 120 songs and now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, JLo, Kanye. Sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Colon, the 2000s. Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now, Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. Cole in the 2000s preference, preferably on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit Card. This is an ad for the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it. Say it with me. The active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. This episode is supported by FX's the Bear. The Emmy award winning series returns following Carmi, Sydney and Richie as they push forward, determined not only to survive, but also to take the Bear to the next level. This season, the pursuit of excellence isn't just about getting better. It's about deciding what's worth holding on to. FX is the bear. All episodes streaming June 25th on Hulu. I'm Sean Fennesy.

[Amanda David]

I'm Amanda David.

[Rob Harvilla]

And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about zombies and other things. Today on the show, we are digging into 28 Years later, the third film in the 28 Zombie series. A reunion of the original 28 Days Later's team of director Danny Boyle and writer Alex Garland. A favorite of this show, cr, is here to break it down. The real alpha in more ways than one. We will get into that. But first, a programming reminder. If you are listening to this show, you are listening to the 799th episode of this show, which means Monday will be the eighth hundredth episode of the Big Picture, which is a big number. Is it a meaningful number? I say yes. And so we are doing a mailbag.

[Amanda David]

What did we do for 750?

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't remember.

[Amanda David]

Don't you have the archive?

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't actually. As you know, it was. It was destroyed. That's gone? Yes.

[Amanda David]

Holy shit.

[Rob Harvilla]

Wait, that might be saved, actually, but I'M not going to look back at this exact moment. So if you want to email us anything about movies, we gave you an advice episode recently. No more advice. At least for now. Amanda is taking that advice directly on her IG, which is AlphaZombieGirl. You can find her. DMS are open. You can email us at BigPick mailbag mail dot com. That's Big Pick, mailbag, gmail dot com. Will you be emailing us, Chris?

[Sean Fennesy]

No, but I want to know when do either I get my own solo mailbag for Big Pick or solo Tracy Letts and Joanna Robinson get to do a third chair mailbag?

[Amanda David]

Oh, that's a good idea. You guys have, like, nine podcasts. Why do you need more podcasts?

[Sean Fennesy]

I find the questions and fun. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

You're saying you don't. You don't get good questions from.

[Sean Fennesy]

You get fine questions. A lot of them are like, I am a doctor and the pit is good, and it's not really a question.

[Rob Harvilla]

I see.

[Sean Fennesy]

Which I appreciate their feedback, though.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why do you think you don't get good questions?

[Sean Fennesy]

Maybe because Andy and I answer all questions just with our pod.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. That's beautiful.

[Sean Fennesy]

There's no mystery.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's probably what it is. If Tracy Lutz would like to do a solo episode, a mailbag, he could, but not me. He's allowed.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's allowed. You keep working, you know, keep putting up those shots.

[Amanda David]

In case you were wondering, it appears that episode, episode 750, which I think is a rounder number or like a more significant number, was Moana 2. And I believe also hot frosty.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. And where were you for that episode? Sitting at home.

[Amanda David]

That's true.

[Rob Harvilla]

Where was I? Grinding tape on Moana 2 with my precious daughter and Yasi and Rob. Yeah, that was a fun episode, but not really monumental. So maybe we'll make Monday fun. We'll also talk about Elio and maybe how to train your dragon as well.

[Amanda David]

I was going to ask you about that. So am I going to see ELIO and, like, 20 minutes once this is done?

[Rob Harvilla]

Hopefully this episode is longer than 20 minutes, but I'm intending to see it on Sunday.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, I just. I mean, I gotta work it into the schedule, so we're on the call.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, you're. You're passing off your children shortly, you know, in 24 hours. And when you do, you can go right to a children's movie by yourself.

[Amanda David]

How great.

[Rob Harvilla]

That sounds exciting.

[Amanda David]

Time to be me.

[Rob Harvilla]

You did. You had a bit of a break from the episode this week, and So a raft of news came across. The transom. Cr. You've hit a little bit of this stuff on the watch this week. We did, we did.

[Sean Fennesy]

Deliver me.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Let's just talk about Tom Cruise's Oscar. So he's getting an Academy Award? Yeah, he's getting an honorary Academy Award. And he's getting it along with a number of other folks. Debbie Allen, the choreographer, Wynn Thomas, production designer. One other person who I'm for Dolly Parton, of course.

[Sean Fennesy]

Dario Argento.

[Rob Harvilla]

No, Dario Argento. I wish that were the case. Alas, maybe next year. Dario. So I noted this on X.com, this is awfully reminiscent potentially of the Paul Newman situation, where in 1986, after not winning Best Actor, after being nominated many times, he was given an honorary Oscar for his good works in film. And then the next year, he won for the Color of Money, co.

[Amanda David]

Starring Tom Cruise.

[Rob Harvilla]

Co starring Tom Cruise, which we know now, next year Tom Cruise will be appearing in an Alejandro G. Inaritu movie called Judy, Roughly Judy, but I think that's a fake title for this film, which is a film about a man who the entire world hinges upon, that is, I think, a comedy.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

Now, Inaritu, you know, not a big favorite of this podcast, but is someone who often directs actors to Academy Award nominations, directed Leonardo DiCaprio to an academy Award win. Do you think that the Newman will happen here where Cruz will win and then win again?

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't. Part of it is a feeling. Part of it is. I really wonder with the Inarutu movie, is he going to subject himself to a regular press run?

[Amanda David]

You know, No, I, I, I don't wonder about that. I think that he will not.

[Sean Fennesy]

So can you win an Oscar without having to play the game?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's an interesting question. You don't think so?

[Amanda David]

I don't think he'll do a press tour or I don't think he'll win.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, do you think he, if he doesn't do the press tour, do you think he can win that Oscar then?

[Amanda David]

I, I don't, but I don't think he's going to do it anyway because I, I don't think he's going to win it anyway. I mean, I understand the Paul Newman comp. But Paul Newman was nominated for like 45 Oscars, and I think it was eight. Well, that's a lot. And I think Tom Cruise has had. And that's more than Tom Cruise.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think Cruise is three.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. So the Academy has never really taken him seriously. In the same way that they took Newman seriously, even if they never gave him the Oscar. And I just. There's too much downside for him to be like, on a podcast.

[Sean Fennesy]

Sure.

[Amanda David]

You know, I don't know whether he can do it, so I don't think it'll happen. But I'm still holding out for stunt Oscar.

[Rob Harvilla]

I feel like Brad Pitt. His win showed us the path for Tom Cruise, which is that he's famous enough that he did a kind of the minimum amount and made the most of the minimum amount. Every time he had to give a speech, he appeared to be gracious. He had one good joke for every speech, you know, praised his co stars and collaborators endlessly and then talked about his journey as a person. Minimally, but effectively. I don't. You know, who knows with Judy? I don't know what that movie. If that movie's gonna be good or not, but I think you could. If you're famous enough, I think you can do it. If you're Mikey Madison, you have to pound the pavement. You have to do interviews. You have to get out there and show everyone who you are. Everybody knows who Tom Cruise is, for better or for worse. So I'm not writing it off. That's all I'm saying. Okay, let's talk about Tom Cruise in training. Glenn Powell.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

So Glen Powell this week signed up for a firefighter movie from Ron Howard. Ron Howard already made a firefighter movie. It's called Backdraft.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's pretty good, solid film.

[Rob Harvilla]

I guess he wants to go back. Imagine if he made another film about the guy from A Beautiful Mind. And he was just like, he's going again. He's looking at that story one more time.

[Sean Fennesy]

Apollo 14.

[Rob Harvilla]

Glen Powell, very busy man right now, this year as the running man, possibly has Huntington from A24, though it seems like that's gonna go into 2026. He signed up for the untitled J.J. abrams puzzle movie. He's got a Judd Apatow movie on deck. He's got a Barry Jenkins movie on deck. Top Gun 3 is being written according to Christopher McQuarrie. And now this firefighter movie. Plus, he's gonna be a TV star shortly. This Chad Powers show forthcoming Chad Powers football show. And there's also talk of a Texas Chainsaw Massacre TV adaptation that you just.

[Amanda David]

Tweeted about from the San Diego Zoo.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did I? What did I say?

[Amanda David]

Didn't you?

[Sean Fennesy]

I just know that Taylor Sheridan has now thrown his name in the ring for that franchise.

[Rob Harvilla]

He wants in on that.

[Sean Fennesy]

I mean, like, there's a big, like, bidding war going on for the rights to Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I tweeted from the San Diego Zoo.

[Amanda David]

I think so. Or maybe you just texted from the San Diego Zoo.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think it was just a text. It's amusing that you confuse those two things. I don't recall tweeting about this story.

[Amanda David]

I don't know. It's just like, oh, Sean is with his child somewhere and has an opinion about a movie, you know?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I don't know. If I was at the zoo. That seems unlikely, to be honest, given what my experience was like at that zoo. Glenn Overexposed.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, I would say, to hold your tongue from my. From my pov. I wonder if you could have told Glenn, Glenn Powell, this is what your lineup is going to be. Would he have gone back and been like, I don't need to do a Chad Powers TV show for the Manning brothers.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's possible.

[Amanda David]

I mean, I think you're right.

[Sean Fennesy]

It sounds the most disposable of these projects.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, it's the horror movie that d' ingenue made before she won the Academy Award. You know, it's the. What is the House at the End of the Street. Isn't that the Jennifer Lawrence movie where it was like, oh, yeah. Remember when she made this in 2014? Better get it out soon. She was the winner of the Academy Award for Silver Linings Playbook. I think he's gonna be fine.

[Amanda David]

I'm happy for him.

[Rob Harvilla]

These are mostly good projects. Always a little skeptical of the J.J. abrams project personally.

[Amanda David]

You know, you and I are on record on that. There were set photos from it recently, like, he was wearing a vest. I saw a tweet that said, I'm sorry, I can't remember who had this. Very smart thought it was Jim Twitter. Jim Twitter tweeted after he asked you for some advice.

[Rob Harvilla]

Thank you for all your skincare thoughts, Amanda. Here's a take on Glen Powell, and.

[Amanda David]

It was just like, Glen Powell, like, crosses another job off his, like, Barbie job list. Firefighter. It's good. It's funny. We love our tornado chaser. I love him. He's the best.

[Rob Harvilla]

Two can titles going to November 7th. One is Die, My Love, the Jennifer Lawrence movie, which we talked about. That movie acquired for $24 million, which. That's a lot of money for that movie. Based on the reviews that I read.

[Sean Fennesy]

The stuff that I read about this movie makes it sound like the. That Scarlett Johansson is doing in marriage stories. They're like, we pretended to be otters, and then one Otter wore the other one. You're like, what? What's this movie about?

[Rob Harvilla]

I think it's about a woman experiencing postpartum depression, but with also some animal role play, I suppose, when Ramsay never.

[Amanda David]

Won to make a simple marriage in marriage story, in my experience.

[Rob Harvilla]

So sentimental Value, the other, you know, big Cannes film from Joachim Trier is also going to November 7th. You know, I just walked out of the movie theater for 28 years later where I saw an extended trailer for Predator Badlands that's coming out on November 7th. I'm very excited about that. We just talked about the Running man that's also coming out on November 7th. So that's a busy day.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, it is. I wonder if things will shift slightly. I mean, and also you have to assume Die My love and sentimental value will be limited and then.

[Rob Harvilla]

Good point.

[Amanda David]

Going wide.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think that is likely to be the case. However, the Running man and Predator Badlands, those two movies have the exact same. Same core demo, which is me and Chris and some other guys.

[Sean Fennesy]

And I even watched the Predator anime. Yeah, Jim Twitter or not anime, but they animated. I don't know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, it was great.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, it was really killer.

[Rob Harvilla]

Of Killers.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that. So you watched an animated film, but only because it had Predators.

[Sean Fennesy]

I low key watch animated stuff, but very selectively and never what society tells me.

[Rob Harvilla]

Can I tell you something by announcing on a podcast that you do something, it is not low key. This is important to understand that that.

[Sean Fennesy]

Is not my entire thing. How do you pretend like I'm not on a podcast?

[Amanda David]

How do you find your way there?

[Sean Fennesy]

What's that?

[Amanda David]

How do you find your way there to these animated films? Like, what is your decision criteria?

[Sean Fennesy]

I'm a relatively complete. I'm a completist when it comes to Predator.

[Amanda David]

I know you once acted out one of the films in my office.

[Rob Harvilla]

No one else.

[Sean Fennesy]

The other day, Sean, me and Zack went and saw Die Hard with a Vengeance at the movie theater. And Zach was relating Knox, asking him questions about what he was doing. And he was like, I'm going to see a movie with Shawn. Chris. He's like, what's the movie called? He said, die Hard with a vengeance. And then I was like, did he ask what it's about? And he was like, no. And I was like, I really want to explain Die Hard with a Vengeance to Knox.

[Rob Harvilla]

We're not that far away from that. Being the guys, there used to be.

[Sean Fennesy]

These things called payphones.

[Rob Harvilla]

Will you go full rewatchables when that happens? Will he be like, in Our picking knits category, I would have pointed out here the failure to understand.

[Sean Fennesy]

Do you know who Doris Burke is? Okay, so.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, one more piece of news. Two more pieces of news.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, three more pieces, but it's one that's not on the dock.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, you've got one. You've got one tucked away.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, Doris. First trailer for Springsteen, Deliver Me From Nowhere, which is coming out October 24th. Written and directed by Scott Cooper. In case you couldn't figure it out, this movie is about Bruce Springsteen at a very particular moment in his career. He's played by Jeremy Allen White, and it is about the conception and recording of Nebraska, his famed sort of acoustic Desolate One man album, which is recorded essentially simultaneous to Born in the usa.

[Sean Fennesy]

Prior to, I think, right after the river and before Born in the usa. But as Jeremy Strong explains in this film trailer, it's what he had to do to heal the world.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes.

[Amanda David]

First himself.

[Sean Fennesy]

He had to heal himself.

[Amanda David]

He had to fill the hole.

[Rob Harvilla]

And knowing what we know now that the world hath been healed, do we need this movie because we're healed.

[Sean Fennesy]

Fuck, yes.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, so you're.

[Sean Fennesy]

You're.

[Rob Harvilla]

You're fired up, you're ready to go?

[Amanda David]

Yeah, that's great.

[Sean Fennesy]

I wasn't moved, but I was like, first of all, he does a very convincing rock version of Springsteen's moves. So shout out to Jeremy.

[Rob Harvilla]

This is one of my biggest concerns with this movie, is that he looks bang on in the Born to Run stuff.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

But that's not what this movie is about.

[Sean Fennesy]

We don't know what this movie's about, though.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, I won't spoil what I know about it, but that's not what it's about.

[Sean Fennesy]

You think it's about his dad?

[Amanda David]

I mean, yes, there are flashbacks to. Yeah, but I was kind of hoping that would be 35 seconds. That was when I was like, uh, oh, I mean, sure. But they put it in the trailer.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think it's about a tortured artist conceiving of an important work. And that work is not Born in the usa.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think it's about John Landau.

[Rob Harvilla]

I mean, I'm looking forward to Jeremy Strong's work in this film. It's amazing that he's going from Roy Cohn to John Landau. Like, what other guru figures can he hop from? You know, how much Scott Cooper stock do you have? I think is the question you should ask yourself.

[Amanda David]

I don't have a lot, but I am also. I'm open to this type of movie. And then was also like, oh, when I Saw the flashbacks to the. You know. And then sincere Jeremy Strong is a little. Little tough for me. And so once he is.

[Sean Fennesy]

So when he's, like, listening to the.

[Amanda David]

Music on the Voice of God, being like, he's gonna heal the world, I was, okay. That's actually how we're going.

[Sean Fennesy]

Live footage of me listening to Rosillo travelogues just like, I can't believe you.

[Amanda David]

Is there a new one?

[Sean Fennesy]

No.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

The supporting cast of this movie is pretty great. Stephen Graham, Odessa Young, Paul, Walter Hauser, Gabby Hoffman, Marc Maron, David Krumholtz. That's a lot of my hitters right there, so I'm obviously looking forward to it. I had a lot of angst about a complete unknown last year, and because I love Dylan so much, and that turned out to be false and unnecessary because that was a pretty good movie. I'm a little more skeptical of this, but I have less skin in the game with Bruce. So, you know, we'll check it out.

[Amanda David]

We'll do an episode about it that seems emotionally responsible.

[Rob Harvilla]

Will you listen to only Bruce from now until the film comes out? All summer? Sure. All summer.

[Amanda David]

Bruce loves Bruce.

[Sean Fennesy]

Do you have a favorite Bruce Springsteen album? I asked Andy this.

[Amanda David]

I'm not getting into this with all of you. You just start clowning each other about Tunnel of Love. And I was like, no, it's just.

[Sean Fennesy]

A very Andy pick to say Tunnel of Love.

[Rob Harvilla]

That was Andy's pick.

[Amanda David]

Like, I didn't work in love.

[Sean Fennesy]

It was Andy's pick, and I knew it was Andy's pick from, like, his face. I was like, it's tonal love. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

You, like, called the shot.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay. I mean, I get that as, like, a move that you would put in print to be like, actually, it's Tunnel of Love, but sincerely believe it's Tunnel of Love.

[Sean Fennesy]

Ask him.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay. Anyway, Kathryn Bigelow is finally putting a movie out. Speaking of October 24, same day as this Springsteen movie, A House of Dynamite, is hitting Netflix. It is scripted by Noah Oppenheim, who's Chris's favorite former news executive from NBC and also the author of Jackie and Zero Day.

[Amanda David]

Zero Day, which you did watch all of. How did it conclude? Can we say that now?

[Sean Fennesy]

Lizzy Kaplan is aoc, and she participates in a coup against the president.

[Rob Harvilla]

He told me this, and I broke down laughing.

[Sean Fennesy]

So she's a leftist congresswoman who unites with a centrist congressman played by Matthew Modine to shake America out of its stupor. Okay, by.

[Rob Harvilla]

Is it possible that it is a foretold Documentary. Like, is it in play, what you just described?

[Sean Fennesy]

I fucking hope House of Dynamite is.

[Amanda David]

And what's Bob De Niro doing?

[Sean Fennesy]

He's a former president who runs a kind of special counsel investigation into the cyber attack.

[Amanda David]

Okay, this.

[Rob Harvilla]

This is sort of related, this Bigelow movie, because this Bigelow movie is about. A missile is launched at the United States. We don't know where it's come from. And now the White House needs to determine who fired it and how to respond. And it's. You know, it feels like a TikTok thriller. Not TikTok, the social media app, but a ticking clock.

[Amanda David]

With C's.

[Rob Harvilla]

With C's. Thank you. Well put. Idris Elba, Rebecca Ferguson, Moses Ingram, Greta Lee, Our Boy, Tracy Letts, Anthony Ramos, Jason Clark. First Bigelow movie since Detroit, which is eight years ago.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

So interesting.

[Sean Fennesy]

Close to the same layoff Danny Boyle has had for features. Right?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's a good point. Very, very similar. I think Danny Boyle's 2019 was yesterday. So he. This is, I mean, eight years away for a Best Picture winner and one of the signature filmmakers of the 21st century. Pretty exciting.

[Amanda David]

I'm open. I mean, topically, you know, we'll see how it goes.

[Rob Harvilla]

I would imagine this is in the running to be at Venice.

[Amanda David]

I am excited about that.

[Rob Harvilla]

So you may be seeing it sooner than all of us.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

You know, it'll be fucking sick if the missile comes from space. Everybody's like, oh, it's a geopolitical thriller. And it's like, no, Martians. Martians shot one right at us. And now Idris Elba has to go into space. Don't kill them.

[Rob Harvilla]

That could. It could be that. Yeah, that would be quite a swerve from Bigelow's previous work, but you never know. You had a final piece of news you wanted to share?

[Sean Fennesy]

There is a rumor on the Internet.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, here we go.

[Sean Fennesy]

That the teaser for the Odyssey is going to be playing before I did see this. Jurassic Jurassic Park.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Jurassic World Rebirth.

[Rob Harvilla]

So I'm glad you brought this up.

[Amanda David]

So, you know, can I tell you, I learned this.

[Rob Harvilla]

Where'd you learn it?

[Amanda David]

From my new favorite Instagram account. Hold up. You guys did not respond to my Shrek Instagram that I sent you.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, that was sent to me and Bobby.

[Amanda David]

I know, but you didn't respond.

[Rob Harvilla]

I've had quite a journey the last few days. I apologize. If you could only imagine what I've been doing in the state of Georgia. I mean, you'll hear all about it in private.

[Amanda David]

You know what? I can. Which is sort of the problem. Okay, so that was a reel by movie watching girl. So shout out to her.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's your alt.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, but she knows how to like make reels.

[Sean Fennesy]

Movie watching Alpha mama.

[Amanda David]

Anyway, good materialists content over that. I don't want to spoil. But it's really good. I mean, it was genuinely good. And then. Have you seen material Material? Okay, well, I look forward to.

[Rob Harvilla]

Because of your Marxism.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, no, I've just decided that I unconditionally support the film and don't want to see it.

[Rob Harvilla]

We were engaged in one of the best text exchanges of the year with a. With a colleague about the film. I won't reveal who that colleague is, but you maybe you guess out there if you're a listener of the Ringer podcast network. So here's the thing I did. I assume we're going to get invited to a screening of Jurassic World Rebirth.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

But in the event that we're not.

[Sean Fennesy]

You have rejected that invite.

[Rob Harvilla]

No, I have not.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

I want to see the movie. I bought a ticket and I have never seen this ticket offered before, but I bought a ticket for an 8am screening on July 2, the day the film is being released. And that I assume we will record based on the episodes that we have coming in the next couple of weeks. So if you would like to join me at the 8am screening of this movie at the AMC Americana. Oh, 8am we could see the Odyssey trailer, if it's not on the Internet yet, and talk about it on that episode.

[Amanda David]

Oh, that's fine.

[Sean Fennesy]

I'll try to make that work.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

And now that requires waking up early and getting our children out the house and everything.

[Sean Fennesy]

I can wake up early.

[Amanda David]

I just might be up for the rest of.

[Sean Fennesy]

I might be out of the state, but I will try to come back for that.

[Rob Harvilla]

You'll be out of the state?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, where are you going?

[Sean Fennesy]

To Portland.

[Amanda David]

Again.

[Sean Fennesy]

Again?

[Amanda David]

Yeah, Just there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Again.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. Come back.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. But there is also some speculation.

[Amanda David]

I was going to ask you to bring some donuts from.

[Sean Fennesy]

From Portland?

[Amanda David]

No, from all time near your home.

[Sean Fennesy]

There is some speculation that this would be the last opportunity this summer for it to air before a Universal film, I think, or something like that.

[Rob Harvilla]

I believe historically Nolan typically just does those like minute long teasers that have very little footage in them.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

So you know the famous like Heath Ledger doing the Joker laugh in the Dark Knight trailer.

[Sean Fennesy]

The Dunkirk teaser is insane. It's really good.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's like the ticking. Yeah.

[Amanda David]

So this will just be you reading the hot Odyssey in the original Greek with the.

[Sean Fennesy]

Honestly, wearing a toga? Yeah. There's very few times where I've ever been like, we should go live, like, walking out of the movie theater. But this is one of them.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's. Honestly, if you want to talk strategy on the show, it's better as a standalone piece of content. You know what? Let's just let it flow. We're going to let it all flow. Speaking of flowing, let's flow into the zombie state 28 years later. So I've just seen this movie. I have not had a lot of time to sit with it. You guys got a chance to see it earlier this year. Did you see it yesterday?

[Amanda David]

I saw it yesterday.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

I saw it Tuesday.

[Rob Harvilla]

As I said, written by Garland, directed by Boyle. Boyle's first movie in a long time. Boyle, a filmmaker who. I don't. I honestly don't know a lot of your thoughts about him, because we've only had one movie of his come out since we've been doing the show, and.

[Amanda David]

It was yesterday, and we hated it. I just absolutely melted you guys weren't.

[Sean Fennesy]

Doing the show during Steve Jobs.

[Rob Harvilla]

No, no. That was 14, I think. Or 15.

[Sean Fennesy]

I thought it was 15.

[Rob Harvilla]

So, yeah. You know, Chris and I have a shared love of a lot of his movies.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's definitely a huge favorite of mine, but he has been in this kind of. I don't know if he's like, an exploratory period. He did some television, you know, in 2012, he did the Olympic ceremony. Like, he's. He's kind of been.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think he did some theater stuff.

[Rob Harvilla]

He did some theater, yeah. He's been doing a lot of other projects and in the sort of early to mid-90s, established himself as kind of a linchpin character who. We don't usually identify with the typical hall of Famers of this show, but I think if he were more active in the last 10 years, we probably. His name would come up more. But anyway, this is. You know, he made this 28 days later film 23 years ago with Garland, and that came off of him adapting Garland's novel the beach for the 2000 film with Leo, which I just rewatched and which actually pairs very interestingly with this movie, which I'll get to. So this new movie stars Jodie Comer, Aaron Taylor Johnson, Ralph Fiennes, Alfie Williams, who is really the star of the movie. He plays Spike, the young boy at the center of the story, shot by Anthony's odd mantle. Again, this is their seventh collaboration. Though I've never seen a movie like this from the two of them. It was shot on an iPhone 15 Pro Max, which I believe is the phone I'm holding in my hand right now. That's the iPhone that I bought.

[Sean Fennesy]

But some of the rigs that they use are unbelievable where it's like a giant ring of iPhones so that they can capture some of the specific action that they're trying to do.

[Rob Harvilla]

And we should talk about the way that they capture the action because it is pretty extraordinary. You know, in our document here it says the past movies that have been shot on the iPhone include Tangerine High, Flying Bird Unseen. Obviously Soderbergh has been doing a lot of work with this. Usually in those movies it's about the kind of claustrophobia that or surveillance that you find from, you know, the phone existence. This movie kind of explodes that whole concept. It makes things massive and wide. Scored by young fathers, Kind of a rock hip hop Scottish group. And the story is this. 28 years after the rage virus escaped a medical research laboratory survivors have found ways to co to exist amidst the infective. One group lives on an island connected to the mainland by a single heavily defended causeway. When a father and his son leave the island on a mission into the dark heart of the mainland, they discover the secrets, wonders and horror of the outside world. Amanda, what did you think?

[Amanda David]

It's not that heavily defended. But anyway, just think about it. You don't want to start with him. I mean, I'm happy to start.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think you should start.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, well, we know what you think in a positive way. I guess it's not as interesting to start with me because I'm there for everything besides the spinal cords. Two thumbs up for the spinal cords.

[Rob Harvilla]

You mean the gore and viscera.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, but like. And quite literally they had many of them and you saw them being removed in various ways and that was cool. I mean, it was gnarly as fuck, but that's the point. But whether I respond to it is about everything outside. It is like, have you created a believable world? Like, do I believe in these characters? Am I emotionally invested? Does it have any sort of ideas or anything to. To say, you know, how does it look? Does it, you know, is it pretty. Basically, I thought it was pretty great. I was. I was definitely emotionally invested. I cried. I was mad about crying. And I do want to talk about that. It is a day that ends in Y. And so I have some notes on Alex Garland's female characters, but you Know.

[Sean Fennesy]

That'S okay, a third of them.

[Amanda David]

But, you know, infected or not as it, as it turns out. But I thought it was like very moving, like very assured. It like incredible and engrossing to look at. Great performances, pretty great setup, great third act cameo, which not, not even a cameo really, but we'll, we'll get to that when we get to it. So I'm very pro.

[Sean Fennesy]

Extraordinary.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Like, I just thought, probably my favorite of the year. One of my favorites of the year. Up there with sinners and, and warfare and black bag bursting with ideas, social ideas about society, ideas about infection and disease, ideas about national identity, ideas about filmmaking and genre. Unbelievable. Like, every scene I felt like was vibrating with an energy that is really lacking from genre film or blockbuster films. And I was riveted. I, I thought it was really funny. I too was brought to the edge of tears. Like I was really moved by the second act, or I guess the beginning of the third act. And I can't believe, like the sleight of hand that this movie, I, I thought this movie was going to be a warrior movie about Aaron Taylor Johnson kicking ass. I had no idea that this was gonna go like fucking full warhorse on us. And yeah, it's, it's a coming of age story set in like a folk horror environment. It's amazing.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. But also, I mean, there is a lot of that viscera that you're describing, but it's very much a fallen empire movie. It's sort of about like what happens in the aftermath of Brexit. 200 years of power and wealth and then this turn towards isolationism and to have that idea be so obvious on the surface, but then to actually spend time to like explore what it means and the ramifications of people and to watch someone leave the island in the film, as the young boy and his father do at the beginning of the film. And then. And we will spoil this movie, though I think clearly we all highly recommend it. It's definitely one of the best movies of the year to then have another character leave the island too, and then see the ramifications of another person leaving and then just try to like, reckon with what is trying to be communicated here about the idea of Brexit specifically. But I think around the world, the sort of like the fact that they are being isolated from a rage virus, I think like, says a lot about how the filmmakers view the contemporary environment. But the movie doesn't skimp at all on the hardcore genre stuff. There is a kind of elegiac tone to A lot of what's happening and the sadness between the parents and the child. But there's a giant mega zombie with a huge swinging dick in this movie ripping people's vertebrae out. I mean, it is literally the two things that we are always asking for, which is like, if you can give us our genre and then pack inside that genre some deep theme, which this movie has a ton of, it shouldn't be surprising. I feel like yesterday is the blip. And then when you start going through all of Boyle's movies and you're like, oh, yeah, they're all kind of like this. They all feel weirdly transgressive.

[Sean Fennesy]

28 Days later is about a post 911 Western world. Right. Like, it is.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's able waking up to the destruction.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Translate, like a moment in time into a genre movie with so much creativity. I thought that, like, there was a really sly expository dump in the beginning of the movie where they mentioned that continental Europe has, like, fixed it. Like, they're like. They've, like, contained it and moved on.

[Amanda David]

It is also.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's a retcon of the. Of the second.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. And it's like, titles, and they're just like, yeah, the second movie did not happen.

[Sean Fennesy]

But it's also kind of like, very telling about, I think the way Boyle perhaps sees contemporary British life of, like, all these other places that have, like, we self inflicted wounded ourselves. And now, like, these other places. You're gonna have to go there to get a doctor.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. It's an interesting choice to set it in the Highlands of Scotland too. And the. The. The identity of Scotland.

[Sean Fennesy]

That's the beginning. Then it moves down into northeast England. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

The way that the movie is made, it looks unlike any movie I've ever seen. And so I was hoping, like, maybe we could try to, like, unpack how they did this thing. I haven't read anything about the production of the movie. I didn't want anything spoiled for me. After we saw that first trailer that we talked about on YouTube, like, three months ago. Yeah. With the Rudyard Kipling poem. But there's two huge choices. One is obviously shooting it with an iPhone, which gives it this kind of, like, hazy on the edges and then tight focus in the center of the frame. And then there's the editing style, which, particularly in the action sequences is this sort of like, skip, freeze, cut action, which is very strange and takes, like a second to get used to. Because this is a movie that's largely about, like, bow and arrow, murder of zombies. It looks very like Robin Hood in the first 30 minutes and then kind of morphs into something significantly more disgusting. But I don't know, how did you feel, you know, as someone who doesn't watch these movies all the time.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

But I assume you felt something significantly different from your standard issue zombie movie.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. Are you. I mean, I had. So I watched 28 days later and then 28 weeks later, like in succession this week, this is how I've been spending my week. And you know, 28 days later is also like, this style of filming is very famous and so it's like very low quality digital cameras in 2002.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes.

[Amanda David]

Which, you know, serves the story and is very cool. But like, if you're watching it at home on your TV now, it is like kind of borderline unwatchable.

[Rob Harvilla]

It looks like shit.

[Amanda David]

It looks like really, really. I mean, you can, you can get a sense of what they were trying to do with the style. And it like clearly is, you know, this style is serving the movie. But you're just like, what am I looking at? Like, how can I see this?

[Sean Fennesy]

Is that Killian Murphy walking across the.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that bus on the side, like.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know, it did feel very different in theaters.

[Amanda David]

Right, right, right, right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Because in theaters they struck prints of the digital video. So it was the weirdest looking thing. I mean, I remember vividly. And then when you watched it at home, it didn't have the same power.

[Amanda David]

Right. But so it was interesting to go from, from that experience and that style of filmmaking to like, to iPhone world. And obviously you can like, see things a lot better, but there was just a scope to this that like, I thought was very beautiful and like, does serve the story in terms of it's an isolated island, but like, you're like, considering like the larger world. So. And then the zombie stuff, I just, I mean, they really, really like blood.

[Rob Harvilla]

And this is way gorier than the legend.

[Amanda David]

Way, way gorier. And it's, you know, I like, I guess I have a quote unquote queasy stomach about this stuff, but really I just kind of like, don't look. The way that I react to things is like, oh, okay, so now we're in the, like, you know, eyeballs are gonna start exploding things, so I'm just gonna like, look over here and I like just kind of look down and so I can like kind of see it in my periphery. Then I could still see a lot of blood in the periphery. That's kind of the thing. It's like, can you look away and like, no, you can't really totally avoid this one. But even I can tell that it is, you know, it's both gnarly and very impressive.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. I was wondering if it was like, purposely done that way as a sort of, maybe not a comment, but like an elevation of the sensory overload that we've experienced in the last 20 years that, like, to really be blown away by something like this, you kind of need to go in super high definition video right up close into the eye of the zombie as the arrow penetrates, and then freeze the camera for one second. Like it felt like the same way. That's an aesthetic choice that he made to shoot on digital video to show you kind of a grainy, broken down world. And what would it be like if you tried to capture it on the last remaining camera? That in this movie, it's sort of like there's literally one character with an iPhone, the last iPhone before it loses all of its battery.

[Sean Fennesy]

He's like, check out my fiance.

[Rob Harvilla]

That part is great.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's amazing.

[Amanda David]

Why does her face look like that? My friend, when she eats scallops. That was genuinely really funny.

[Rob Harvilla]

But these aesthetic choices are kind of informing the big ideas of the movie, which makes it more fun and more interesting to kind of unpack in the aftermath. But also just sitting there and watching it, it's just. It's more exciting.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. The British critic Frank Cremode said that this film was a combination of Ken Loach's Kez with Cannibal Holocaust. And I thought that was like a pretty, pretty awesome way of looking at it. Not only is it shot in this very distinctive way, but it's cut. And the visual language overall is really distinctive. Where Boyle's cutting in, like Lawrence Olivier's Henry V and infrared shots of the infected crawling around the forest.

[Rob Harvilla]

I love that.

[Sean Fennesy]

And you know, these kind of surreal, almost like folk horror kind of images of the Alpha on the horizon and his minions rising up. And he's playing with a lot of genre, not only tonally but visually. Like mixing in all these different kinds of, I don't know, like vernaculars of film that I've really responded to.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Two movies that I thought of while watching it. One was Sorcerer, which kind of like plunges you into this hellscape and you're just stuck there and you're on a mission to try to get out with your life. And then the other one was the Lighthouse, because the lighthouse has a kind of similar. It's like an emotional torrent on top of you of all around you. At any moment, something terrible could happen. And similarly, you know, weaving in the folklore aspect of that story and the idea of being, like, just on the periphery of impending doom. But it's pretty audacious for a mainstream studio horror movie that is the third in the series to completely pivot stylistically and to be hitting you with this, like. Like you said, dropping into the infrared, especially going into dream sequences where Jodie Comer's character is, you know. You know, eye level in the. In the water, speaking to her son through a dream with red eyes. Like, this is very. I don't know, kind of dark and haunted and unusual kind of stuff. So I was, like, blown away by all those choices. And then the story is a very interesting trio of acts, like, very clearly, dad, Mother, Holy Spirit. You know, like, those are the kind of. There's the. The sacrament is really being explored here, all the way up to the upside down cross that is shown at the end of this film and the bone temple that we explore very briefly. Let's start with the first one. So the first one is a story about a father and a son, and the father is teaching his son how to hunt. There's a hunt. The infected.

[Sean Fennesy]

And there's. It's. It's basically a village rite of passage that, like, boys of a certain age get brought out into the world for the first time and.

[Amanda David]

And, yeah, and they lose. You know, learn the rules of protecting and what it means to be. And then there's, like, a celebration afterwards. It's like a bar mitzvah or for the better.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes, totally. It's like a Vikings are referenced. It's very much like the Viking conqueror training their son. I saw some people saying that this section didn't work, but I thought. I thought this was incredible. I thought this was, like, breathtaking.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Pure excitement. Aaron Taylor Johnson, always happy to see him, thought he was very good in this.

[Amanda David]

I mean, I guess it is, like, the most standard, for lack of a better word, of the three. Like, they start you with a. Pretty much. Okay. It's like. It's a dad and a son, and they do a great job at communicating, like, the tension and the, you know, the expectations that the kid doesn't really feel like he can live up to. And then, you know, then they hunt zombies for a while. So it's like the movie hasn't totally, like, turned on its side yet in this act, but I thought it, like, it was very emotionally affecting. Like, when the dad gets up to something that maybe he shouldn't get up to. I gasped. I was like, you know, and it's like, come on, that's screenwriting 101. It's like, not surprising, but it has the punch that you need. And then, I don't know, those slug zombies were really ugly. So it works. And then it lays the foundation for everything that just kind of gets, like, weirder and weirder in a good way as you go along.

[Sean Fennesy]

I thought that the causeway chase on the way back to the village was like, one of the most amazing things I've seen this year. And this kid spikes. Loss of innocence coming through. Probably the most universal thing, which is finding out your dad's a liar.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And that your dad is like a flawed human being. And. And, you know, he comes back and he's being celebrated in this village and he can't get over the fact that his dad is making up stories about his accomplishments. And this is like a very big pub culture thing. Like, I saw a guy out there, six and a half feet tall, I kicked him in the nuts. And you're like, no, he didn't. He ran away. You know, like that. That really was so perfectly, like, staged, I thought.

[Rob Harvilla]

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. When you release a movie, the first thing you want to do is make sure people know about it. And even more importantly, you want to make sure that people who like the genre know it's out. Because horror fans are more likely to go see new horror movies. Disney fans will go see new Disney movies. Rom com fans will go see new rom com movies. Targeting the right audience is key when it comes to marketing. If you're selling expensive new kitchen appliances, you probably want to sell to people who actually like to cook, not people who rely on food delivery services for every meal. And that's the tricky part. Making sure your message gets to the right people. You have to use the right tools. If you're in B2B marketing, that means using LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has a network of over 130 million decision makers and the targeting tools to make sure you're connecting with the right ones. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, or company revenue. So you can stop wasting your time and budget on the wrong people. LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign. So you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com thebigpicture that's LinkedIn.com terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. This episode is brought to you by Max the HBO original comedy special Gerard Carmichael, Don't Be Gay is now streaming on max. Emmy winning comedian Jarod Carmichael returns to the stage in his boldest special yet, bringing his sharp wit, unfiltered honesty, and the kind of vulnerability that's made his voice truly one of a kind. Fresh off his groundbreaking docu series, Carmichael dives even deeper, sharing his singular take on life, masculinity and what it means to be himself. Don't miss Gerard Carmichael, Don't Be Gay now streaming on Max.

[Sean Fennesy]

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[Rob Harvilla]

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[Rob Harvilla]

Next possibility on cars.com where to next? I agree. And even just the I don't. I assume that that causeway is a real place, like a real location.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, there was a Discover Jude Law miniseries that had like a similar premise of like, this causeway is only open once a day and you know, it's like he's on an island looking for someone. It was a couple years ago on hbo. It's pretty, pretty cool.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I can't remember the name, but just.

[Rob Harvilla]

Visually the way that that's captured is. Is remarkable and so propulsive and in the light, in the dark.

[Sean Fennesy]

And also like see the water kicking up as the alpha's chasing them.

[Rob Harvilla]

Exactly. Yeah. There's like, there are a number of times where he goes really, really wide with the camera. But like the overhead shot of seeing the alpha chasing them and there you can see the kind of distance in their footsteps. And then there are so many of those vista shots that you were talking about, Chris, where the sort of like you can feel the camera, you can feel just an iPhone camera moving like this and giving you the panorama as suggested on your phone. That I think actually weirdly like situated me more in the action than some more recent act. We've been talking about a lot of action movies this year with Ballerina and Working man, amateur accountant 2. There's been a lot of like pure classical action and a lot of it because it's hard to stage these scenes has so much cutting that you feel like you're watching like a whole day's shoot.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

As opposed to a sequence like this where you feel like you're like locked inside of the moment. So I found that, like, really impressive and Just fun. I feel like you're right, though. It is the most standard. It's like. It's what you expected the whole movie to be.

[Amanda David]

Exactly.

[Rob Harvilla]

And the fact that it kind of neatly pivots away from that. When this boy does lose his innocence and realizes that, you know, something is wrong with his mother and a doctor exists somewhere on the island, and that's where that, you know, the origin of the fire on the island that he locates. And I guess that's. Is that just like an old man who lives in their house on the island.

[Sean Fennesy]

I thought that was her. I thought that was like, an uncle or something like that.

[Rob Harvilla]

And he shares the history of Dr. Kelson.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

And then Aaron Taylor Johnson's character, his father, also shares the history of Kelson. And that is a chilling sequence when he recalls being a young boy and stumbling upon Kelson's menagerie of death. And then the boy decides that shot also is really. The corpses lined up so perfectly again, like, chilling. And this is small stuff, but I'm like, this is how you stage a movie like this. This movie is pretty expensive, and you can see where some of the money is spent. But, like a sequence like that where you're like, yeah, we have, like, 300 extras, and they all have to lay on the ground. It doesn't look cheap or digital or. And then that pivots him to, you know, bringing his mother back across the causeway so that he can discover the doctor and find out what's wrong with her. What did you think about Jodie Comer in this movie?

[Amanda David]

I thought she was sensational. She is amazing. And like I said, I was really invested. Like, as, you know, as soon as she meets her fate or it becomes clear that she's going to. I was, like, really, really upset. Now, obviously, like, I am a mother to two small boys. So I was just like, no, I can't. This is horrible. But I think. I don't know if it's a hugely developed character. That's okay. She, in the performance, I think, gives it a lot of life and soul. So I thought she was great. I was. I don't know. When can we talk about the turn?

[Rob Harvilla]

As soon as you want. We can talk about it right now.

[Amanda David]

Well, I just, you know, it happens very fast that she's just like, okay, I guess I gotta go die now, you know? Yeah, I was. I was like. I think that we would be preparing our son a little bit more for this.

[Sean Fennesy]

I guess it's.

[Rob Harvilla]

They prepared him with a morphine blow dart.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. I wonder. I mean, like, so when it first. When her character's first introduced and her malady is first introduced, I was like, it's really fascinating. Like, what would you do with untreated depression in a situation like this? Like, I thought she was suffering from something like that. And then as the movie goes on and she has more, like, lapses in cognitive awareness, you're like, oh, it seems like it's more significant than that, even. But, yeah, like, the. The. The sacrifice. I. I just think that you can't have the. The Jodie Comer character conversation without the Ralph Fiennes character conversation.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, because of what he says about the Memento Mori, about remembering.

[Rob Harvilla]

It comes before that, though, because I. I think the most important, you know, you can feel. Let me go back. I really love Alex Garland's movies that he directed.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

If I were to lodge a criticism against them, it would be that they are very schematic conceptually and that you can feel him moving the characters to help make points. Now, I would say warfare and civil war. Personally, I felt that less than I have in the past, but that he has this, like, diagrammatic approach to story and structure. This has that, too. A new child is born, and so one must die. Like, that is really in the, you know, in the literate understanding of genre filmmaking. As soon as they. And I do have maybe a science corner is in order for the birth of a zombie child.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

That is not a child of a zombie mother and uninfected.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

I can't logic through that very well.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't. You're not as learned in the ways of the zombie, the infected.

[Amanda David]

Well, I have. I've seen all of them recently. So actually, when I was watching Jodie Comer, I was like, oh, is she infected? But it's like some mutation. Oh, that's the second one where. Or she is like, a carrier.

[Rob Harvilla]

But, you know, like, you thought that's what she originally.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, I thought that's where it was going instead of where it went. Yeah. So that train scene where an infected woman gives birth to a baby, and you see the baby emerging from the, you know, vaginal canal, which shout out that. Like. I thought that all that was good. Here's what I didn't like about it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Amanda David]

Well, number one, it's basically, there's a moment before where, you know, you hear this wailing, and it's, like, unmistakable. It's like, oh, great. Okay. The. The one pregnant infected woman that we saw it, like, wandering around earlier Is giving birth like, you know it instinctively.

[Rob Harvilla]

The zombie Virgin Mary.

[Amanda David]

Yes. And so she's.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's what it is.

[Amanda David]

I mean, it is. It is. She's the zombie Virgin Mary.

[Rob Harvilla]

How did that baby stay alive after she got infected? Make it make sense, Alex.

[Amanda David]

Well, they do. We'll get to that. But. So she's there, she's giving birth, and she's obviously, like, in distress because I guess, like, the rage virus is not an epidural. And Jodie Comer walks in.

[Sean Fennesy]

What? I'm actually just resisting doing Tucker Carlson with Ted Cruz with you.

[Amanda David]

What?

[Sean Fennesy]

You're talking about zombie birds. You don't know what you're saying.

[Rob Harvilla]

How do you know there isn't a zombie epidural?

[Amanda David]

But so she's.

[Rob Harvilla]

You want to eliminate all these zombies, right?

[Amanda David]

And so she's, like, freaking out, and she's, like, clearly in pain, and Jodie Comer goes in and, like, reaches her hand out, and there's this moment where it's like. What's implied is, like, this holy thing or this, you know, amazing thing that is happening, which is, like, childbirth is, like, more powerful than the rich. So they're holding each other and they're, like, connecting as people who have given, you know, birth. And it's like, for a moment.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Two mamas.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

They find each other on a train.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

We're not so different.

[Amanda David]

Right? And then. And then the baby is born, and then she's like, if.

[Rob Harvilla]

If only we could stop raging for a minute, we could get. Just get along. Didn't civil war teach us that?

[Amanda David]

Well, no, this is my problem. And I, like, listen.

[Rob Harvilla]

I love that shit. This is theatrical.

[Amanda David]

No, it's fucking stupid. Here's why. No, it's not. No. No. Because I have carried two kids, so I get to say this. It's like, I'm glad that I did, but it has nothing to do with the preservation of your humanity or like, some, you know, magical thing, like giving childbirth. No, it doesn't. And there are, like, plenty of people.

[Rob Harvilla]

What do you mean by that?

[Amanda David]

It just. It's like. It's implied. It's like, oh, well, like, you know, like, here comes this baby, and this is so special that, like, she's not. She's not dangerous in this moment. She's not infected. Like, they can connect as, like, human beings or whatever. And it's like, oh. Because, like, ooh, childbirth. Like, how powerful.

[Sean Fennesy]

You know, who agrees with you?

[Amanda David]

You know what?

[Sean Fennesy]

That Swedish guy.

[Amanda David]

And I just, like, I don't think that that is, you know, I think.

[Rob Harvilla]

There'S a slightly different way to read it.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Which is that the act of childbirth is so painful that it would. It would stem the rage for a minute because you couldn't be right.

[Amanda David]

But then it's like Jodie Comer and her, like, having, like this, Ooh, mamas moment, you know, it's like, I get it.

[Rob Harvilla]

I get it. You know, I can understand why that would.

[Sean Fennesy]

To her point.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And. And we've brought this up a couple of times. I was blown away by how much Garland is in this movie, and it's a testament to his emergence.

[Amanda David]

And it was also, like, when that was happening, I was like, all right, okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's a very. It's equal footing, I think, between Boil and Garland.

[Sean Fennesy]

Nature is healing and changing stuff from the beginning of the film is right out of Annihilation.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yep. I mean, Men was the. Was the setup for the folklore stuff.

[Sean Fennesy]

There's definitely elements of Men. There's definitely elements of Civil War. I mean, he's definitely got his. His ideas and it's his hobby horses. I was texting with someone about this, but it feels like they complete each other. Like Boil without Garland. It's a kind of up and down situation. If he's got a Sorkin script, it's amazing. If it's yesterday, maybe not so much. And Garland without Boil is just maybe a little too, like, fuck all people.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes. It's true. Very, very cynical. Yeah. Boil brings a little bit of humanity to some of Garland's stuff.

[Amanda David]

Except for the baby. Okay, here are my two other. Obviously, like, the baby not being inf. And Ralph Fiennes has a throwaway line about placenta. So that's, you know, at least they put in some science in there. Like, placenta is pretty powerful, I guess.

[Rob Harvilla]

But the placenta is inside the infected person's body.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

I mean, how does the infection work?

[Amanda David]

You know, they didn't explain that. That's true. But I agree with you.

[Rob Harvilla]

To your point, I think it's all just fanciful zombie storytelling. And I know that, but it's funny to me. Pick the nid.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. And then. But the other thing about the baby, that didn't even piss me off, but I was like, this is verging on Children of Men plagiarism at the very end. And I was like, hold on, hold on. Can we do this?

[Rob Harvilla]

Crossing the river.

[Amanda David]

Well, crossing the river and then. And like the last night. And her name is, you know, and it's Jodie Comer's name. And I was like, okay. I like that movie too, but maybe.

[Rob Harvilla]

A stealth homage or maybe a quiet ripoff.

[Amanda David]

It's true. I guess it is also like we all are just retelling the Bible, I guess.

[Rob Harvilla]

This movie to me has deep, deep Christian symbols.

[Amanda David]

You know, in a church.

[Sean Fennesy]

Wizard of Oz. He's in here, of course.

[Rob Harvilla]

So then let's talk about Ralph finds Ralph Fiennes. Eventually, mother and son arrive. Actually, he saves them as they are being stalked by.

[Sean Fennesy]

They get saved a couple times. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Is the insinuation that the zombie mother was impregnated while affected by the Alpha? Yes, and yeah, that he was the father.

[Sean Fennesy]

I was curious whether you guys read this as there are two Alphas in the film. There's the one that gets killed on the cause causeway and then there's the other one that's hunting.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think the idea is that there are more and they're starting to grow.

[Sean Fennesy]

And they're kind of like precinct bosses, right? You know, like.

[Rob Harvilla]

Sure, yeah, if that's how you want to think about it. This guy's been watching a lot of Italian crime movies. So I think that the Fiennes character is interesting. Again, a little bit of a schematic. Like what if there was a guy who had all the answers that had to fix everything? And also he collected skulls. But it's so beautifully rendered. And Ralph finds the minute he shows up the movie, which is already kind of like sitting at an 8 out of 10, just goes like whoop. Like as soon as he starts talking. Because he's, he's just the most dialed in actor right now. He's on a ten year streak of. Everything he does is so enthralling.

[Amanda David]

Almost 30.

[Rob Harvilla]

I hear you.

[Amanda David]

But, and, and also, but it is.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's in a late style period where.

[Amanda David]

Oh my God, it's Ralph Fiennes. Like now, now I'm sitting up straight and now I'm standing.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, he's the closer. He can do the most with the least amount of screen time.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, it's very exciting to see what he does. He's covered in iodine, which apparently repels the zombies. And he has developed a morphine cocktail that also neutralizes them, which is in a, in a dumber movie I would be like, this is so stupid.

[Amanda David]

Right?

[Rob Harvilla]

But in this movie, I was like, yeah, that's, that's just something that happens. This is how we neutralize zombies. This makes total sense. This guy's a genius.

[Sean Fennesy]

And do you think that the reason why he doesn't kill the Alpha after neutralizing him the first Time is because of the physicians do no harm.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think he's trying to coexist with the infected.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think for our. Our real zombie heads out there, they may be like, you just can't leave. You can't leave the Alpha stand in there, man.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like, no. And it comes back to bite him. Yes, to some extent.

[Sean Fennesy]

Almost.

[Rob Harvilla]

Almost.

[Sean Fennesy]

This is. This is the part of the movie that took on, like, a real Shakespearean quality for me, I thought.

[Amanda David]

I mean, it literally does a Yorick joke so well.

[Sean Fennesy]

And then there's a lot of, like, Spike is Prince Hal and, you know, like, getting ready to rise up to save England stuff. But this stuff about death I thought was extraordinary for a movie.

[Amanda David]

It was really beautiful.

[Sean Fennesy]

And the idea that, you know, I just. The whole idea of, like, the skulls being like, everyone has seen things and heard things and said things, and it's like they have their own story. I thought that the culmination of her going away and the sparks coming up in the air and the music was like, up there with, like, what do you see in Sunshine? As like, the high points of Boyle Cinema? Like, honestly ecstatic.

[Rob Harvilla]

I was waiting for the worm to turn. I kept waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under me at that moment. Because it is such a sincere and emotionally deep snapshot inside of a movie that is otherwise relentless and pretty mean. And he doesn't do that, but he does give you, in the aftermath of that, a kind of coda setting up the next film.

[Amanda David]

Right. And then you're like, okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

Which is, to me, this is like, how best to put this. It's like putting a chocolate covered banana on top of a completed sundae where it's like, I like a chocolate covered banana. Sometimes there can be a little bit too much sweet.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think some people would say it's like putting a strawberry Popsicle on top of it's like a completely different flavor profile.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's a better way of putting it. So, you know, eventually the young boy returns the baby to. Or brings the baby to the island where he's growing.

[Sean Fennesy]

Spike returns the child to the village.

[Amanda David]

Well, in, like a Moses basket, you know, sitting outside the thing.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, it's a Moses cart. Handheld cart that he picked up from.

[Sean Fennesy]

Target and a Moses signature baby basket.

[Rob Harvilla]

And Spike, like all great folkloric heroes, must strike out on his own. On his own personal. Personal mission to. To find himself and to become. Just cast a piece of fish, right? Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

Roasted over the fire.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's hunting and fishing all by himself. He's got his bow and arrow. Zombies lay a siege trap on him. They attack, he runs away. And he is greeted at an impasse by several pastel wearing. Were they Scottish ninja, Teletubby warrior. Zombie warriors, basically.

[Sean Fennesy]

And for. For the more British savvy viewer, a British Jimmy Savile look alike, who I guess in this timeline would not have been revealed to be a child.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, but I don't even know. I wonder if that was meant to be like a wink and a nod. Speaking of, I need to mention, have you watched Shifty yet, the Adam Curtis film? Okay, so Adam Curtis, the great documentarian, has a new film that I watched on YouTube. I don't know if it's still there, called Shifty. And it's about kind of like the. The loss of his innocence, like the desecration of England and the world. World in the late 20th century. And the first person that you see in the documentary is Jimmy Savile, who was TV presenter and kind of British pop personality who is revealed to be a very unsavory character in real life. And when I saw them dressed like him with the bleach blonde hair, the kind of mopish hair and the crooked teeth, I was like, so are these guys child predators also double as zombie warriors? It's obviously a huge record scratch in the middle of this otherwise, like, very kind of stately and emotional and deep thematic film that goes right into what's the Cameron Diaz Danny Boyle movie with Ewan McGregor.

[Sean Fennesy]

Life less ordinary.

[Rob Harvilla]

A Life Less Ordinary where like a Life Less Ordinary is a little bit more like, you know, what if every scene was like we changed the dial on the radio station? Like it felt like him just turning the dial a little bit.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. And so the Jimmy character that Jack o' Connell plays has been. It's obviously that's in a preamble section of the film. These children get attacked by the infected while they're watching Teletubbies. And it turns out that the child who escapes becomes Jack o' Connell character throughout the film. There's graffiti on houses and on dead bodies that says Jimmy or Jim.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know, like the upside down hanging.

[Sean Fennesy]

He is essentially becoming like a kind of evangelical figure on the Northeast England countryside during this time period.

[Rob Harvilla]

So I thought it was fun. It's obviously the style of filmmaking is very different. I feel like Danny Boyle is a little bit less comfortable in this kind of.

[Sean Fennesy]

I was kind of wondering if Nia DaCosta directed it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, it doesn't feel like the rest of the movie, that final Action sequence. Because what did you think of this sequence?

[Amanda David]

Well, it took me a minute and I was like, okay, no, that is Jack o' Connell. And then I was amused by that. Then I was like, am I watching Robin Hood? And then it was fine. Like, it's, you know, it feels completely of a different movie. And it feels like it's setting up the next movie, which in fact, we know it is. So it was sort of. It was all very obvious, but I really saw it mostly as a coda, as opposed to the third act of the movie. And I was still just, you know, emotionally wrapped up and also being like, does Children of Men have, like, you know, copyright rights here?

[Sean Fennesy]

Also written by a British author.

[Amanda David]

It's true.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think the only disappointment I had about that sequence was just self created because for a second I was like, he's gonna get to the impasse and Killian Murphy's gonna be standing there.

[Amanda David]

Like, I did actually think that it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Was gonna rule so hard and I'm so susceptible to this. And it wasn't. But it was okay. I thought. I. I know your mileage is gonna vary on this. There are some people who are like, this left a bad taste in my mouth and I thought it ruined the movie. I wouldn't go that far.

[Rob Harvilla]

I didn't feel that way.

[Sean Fennesy]

But I thought it was appropriate to make like yet another crazy left turn. Because the movie does that so many times.

[Amanda David]

Yes.

[Rob Harvilla]

So I just watched the beach yesterday.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

And I don't think I had seen it since I saw it in theaters in 2000. And I was a little disappointed by it. I don't know if you guys have seen it recently.

[Amanda David]

I have not since.

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't think I've seen it in.

[Amanda David]

A while, since Leo season.

[Rob Harvilla]

So that film is, in a way, about a lot of the same themes. It's about this kind of quest for safety and isolation in a more perfect place. It's also a subterranean and then not so subterranean cult movie. You know, where Tilda Swinton's character is essentially like, leading this commune, this private community, into their own kind of Valhalla utopia. And this movie kind of has that on the front end and on the back end. It's like the island connected to the causeway is truly quarantined from the rest of the world. And traversing across the causeway is a risk to explode your beautiful utopia. And then the second half of the film is Jimmy essentially a cult leader, a violent cult leader with his merry band of pastel wearing Teletubbies slaughtering zombies. All across the land. And so I just love this as this kind of, like, closing loop from the beach, which is where Garland and Boyle started working together into this movie. And the fact that this idea, which in 2000 was clearly meant to be a reflection of wayward Gen Xers who were like, I don't want to join society. I don't want to do what my parents told me to do. What I want to do is find my own little corner of the universe and live inside it the way I want to, free of judgment, with people like me. And that obviously, that dream was not sustainable here, at least in America and probably not in England either. And now even more so. The whole point of this movie is, like, wherever you turn, there's a zombie. There's danger around every corner. Like, there's no escaping the realities of modern life. And so, like, I echo what you're saying about Garland and Boyle, which is like, they just kind of.

[Amanda David]

They bring up the best.

[Rob Harvilla]

They just bring out the best of each other. Exactly, Exactly. So this is. It's just a very exciting movie.

[Sean Fennesy]

Can I throw a couple more things on the fire before we leave? They bet the whole movie on this kid and they won the lottery.

[Amanda David]

Absolutely.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's terrific.

[Sean Fennesy]

He's up there with, like, a kid from adolescence and kid performances that I've seen.

[Rob Harvilla]

Alfie Williams is his name.

[Sean Fennesy]

Edvin Riding plays a Swedish soldier who is marooned on the British Isles.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why? How did those guys get there? What happened there?

[Sean Fennesy]

You can. There's. Earlier in the movie, there's a scene where there's a patrol boat in the water. And they, like. I think even the dad points out, like, oh, that's probably French.

[Amanda David]

It's the blockade.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, yeah. And there's like, a quarantine.

[Rob Harvilla]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

And he explains, like, we sunk and we wanted to go anywhere but here because no one ever gets off this place.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

But he brings a very welcome sense of humor and also, like, a very funny. Like, the modern worlds, like, is kept going while all this crazy shit in these movies is happening. And he's like, my buddy drives for Amazon. I should be driving for Amazon right now. Like, that way to prove a point.

[Rob Harvilla]

I joined the Navy.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. And the idea that only fans fiance that, like. Yeah, like, that there's a woman out there with lip fillers while the British islands are, like, coming apart from Rage Virus. It's a little on the nose, but it's also, like, pretty amazing.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And so I love that and loved the gas station sequence. I thought that was really cool.

[Rob Harvilla]

Hell, yeah, yeah. The missing S on the signage and then the. Is it the methane?

[Sean Fennesy]

Butane.

[Rob Harvilla]

The butane something.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Benzene.

[Rob Harvilla]

Benzene, benzene.

[Sean Fennesy]

Is there anything else? No, I guess that was it. Oh, the young father score. Fucking incredible.

[Rob Harvilla]

I mean, Boyle is like, very famous for having the best soundtracks. All of his movies, maybe, barring Yesterday, have the best soundtracks, but I thought this was a really inspired and unusual choice. It was very cool to have a band with some kind of, like, vocal addition, but not defining, like they weren't just pop songs in the middle of the movie. Like, there were long extended sequences of instrumental. And then you would eventually hear some singing, but it was all kind of synced very carefully so you didn't feel like you were getting needle drops specifically. The last song in particular, Pals, is my favorite, the one that hits over the closing credits. But I highly recommend people check that out some more. Where does this stand for Boyle? I think this is his 14th movie. So let's pull up the filmography. You think it's up there?

[Amanda David]

Yeah, don't you?

[Rob Harvilla]

I mean, I think so.

[Sean Fennesy]

I mean, probably top five for me. I would have to like, watch it again, but Trainspotting.

[Rob Harvilla]

Very important to see our. Of course.

[Sean Fennesy]

Shallow Brave is very important to me.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think we all. Steve Jobs.

[Amanda David]

Important to you.

[Sean Fennesy]

Steve Jobs. And Sunshine.

[Rob Harvilla]

We all like Steve Jobs. Sunshine, a personal favorite of mine.

[Sean Fennesy]

I got a lot of time for T2.

[Rob Harvilla]

T2 is fun. I would take this over T2 in terms of sequels and his canon.

[Sean Fennesy]

What about where would you put Trance?

[Rob Harvilla]

I think that's an island that you and I live on, and I live happily there. I drink my ties. I like this. I've given birth to so many takes about Trance and it's one the of wonderful finale featuring the great Rosario Dawson. I really enjoy that movie as a modern noir, but I think it's divisive. I think a lot of his movies are pretty divisive because he takes these big swings. This 28 years later, it's got a lot of swings in it. You mentioned the birth sequence, the giant.

[Amanda David]

We didn't even talk about the Teletubbies and just the kid massacre to open this movie.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes, Child murder.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. I was like by the way of.

[Sean Fennesy]

Zombie action, guys for it out.

[Amanda David]

I was. I was like, oh, that's how it's going to go.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't think you actually see any children.

[Amanda David]

You see a lot of blood and they look so scared and that's worse.

[Sean Fennesy]

And their moms get slaughtered. Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda David]

But. But it's Them sitting in the room watching Teletubbies and, like, weeping, where I was like, well, this is terrible.

[Sean Fennesy]

I, child free gang was like, let's go.

[Amanda David]

Did you ever, like. What do you know about the Tel Dubies?

[Sean Fennesy]

Nothing.

[Amanda David]

Nothing. You.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm familiar with their work.

[Amanda David]

You are?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Amanda David]

I was, like, babysitting when the Teletubbies really, like, hit their prime. And that was a. That was a unique.

[Sean Fennesy]

Does that have the sort of intellectual heft of Bluey or. No.

[Amanda David]

No, it's like brain dead. Yeah, but it's like. It is like brain dead to the point that you are reaching, like, a nirvana. You know, I think it is.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think that's interesting.

[Amanda David]

But there is a lot. And also, like, a lot of drugs definitely involved in the creation of that.

[Rob Harvilla]

There's something perfect about trying to literally inoculate your children from the oncoming rage virus by putting them in front of television. Like, it's a very smart choice. And then neatly closed with the outfits.

[Amanda David]

At the end of the Teletubbies.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I think this could be top five.

[Amanda David]

I definitely.

[Rob Harvilla]

Where do you guys stand on 127 Hours?

[Sean Fennesy]

I haven't revisited it in a long time.

[Amanda David]

You know, an experience, to be sure, but I don't need to revisit it, you know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

I watched some Steve Jobs since Tuesday when I saw 28 years later, Steve Jobs still rocks.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Should be a rewatchables. Should be rewatchables. Not on our list. 25 or 25. Did we consider it?

[Sean Fennesy]

Is there a dating. No, I guess there wouldn't be a dating book.

[Amanda David]

No, but there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Listen, you could have made the case for 28 days later or Sunshine.

[Amanda David]

Oh, I thought you meant that Steve Jobs was not on our list. And I was like, it was never gonna be on our list. But no. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

But I think I did put it on the long list.

[Amanda David]

Sure. But it can't for. It's fine. We'll get into it later. I don't have to spoil things.

[Sean Fennesy]

Because of Apple.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, that's it. Because of Apple. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Because of its relationship to female characters.

[Sean Fennesy]

Because Amanda only uses Trump phone.

[Amanda David]

I was thinking a lot about Kate Winslet's accent while you were talking about.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, the Polish lady. She plays.

[Amanda David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

She tries really hard.

[Sean Fennesy]

5 Garland.

[Amanda David]

But he made her the iPad. You know, he made his daughter the ipod. So a top five. Oh, my God.

[Sean Fennesy]

Natalie Portman. Well, all the ladies in Annihilation.

[Amanda David]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesy]

The robot lady. Alicia Vikander.

[Amanda David]

Sure. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Her name's Ava.

[Sean Fennesy]

Jessie Buckley in Men.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Kirsten Dunst.

[Amanda David]

Sure. Because she needed to buy that green dress so she could feel like a woman.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's what Cailee Spaeny's character told her to do. She did it for other reasons. She was thinking about uniting the country with her beauty, using her feminine wiles to bring America back together.

[Sean Fennesy]

Reaching across the aisle.

[Rob Harvilla]

Hey.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, you know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Why can't Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump do that right now, you know, and give birth to democracy, Am I right?

[Amanda David]

I just really, really dislike you.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Where's fucking Bernie and the dead senator Trent Lott, you know, why can't they come together?

[Sean Fennesy]

Infected Trent Lott is the alpha out on the Hill.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why can't Strom Thurmond and Jimmy Carter's corpses reanimate and bring democracy back to this country?

[Sean Fennesy]

Don't spoil Alex Garland's Eldon Ring, man.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, I'm glad you brought that up. So Alex Garland is adapting a video game, Elden Ring, which is a very popular video game that I don't know anything about. Yeah. And I'm not gonna pretend to know anything about Elden Ring.

[Amanda David]

I know how it's read that line.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, mama.

[Sean Fennesy]

Why'd you say it like that?

[Rob Harvilla]

I know she doesn't like that.

[Amanda David]

Because I hate that I don't like it when, like, someone's selling me something and they're like, hey, Mama, you got this. Or like, hey, mama, hang in there, Mama.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, we got you back games. Or just that whole thing.

[Amanda David]

There has been like a whole, like the, like, girl, like the girl boss, Mama. Yeah, for sure thing has really happened in marketing on the way, Mama. Yeah. You got this, mama. Yeah. It was primarily during, like, prenatal workouts and then anytime you buy any sort of mom products. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I've programmed my Alexa to respond every time I order something on Amazon to respond to me as Wayne Jenkins. It's just like, hey, you know what, Big dog? We're sending you that Nicorette. Don't worry about it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Wayne Jenkins Alexa is a gold idea. Honestly. Bernthal should be contacted about that immediately. Have you learned anything about Elden Ring?

[Amanda David]

No, I'm like, on the third paragraph. It's third person perspective characters, players freely roaming its open world. Linear hidden dungeons can be explored. Okay, but, like, what happens? I don't. This is. You know what? When I was listening to you guys talk about Last of Us, which is obviously a show I'll never watch, but you were like, this diverges from the game, or this is what happens in the game.

[Sean Fennesy]

I just did the research.

[Amanda David]

What are no, no, not that.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda David]

Like, what is the game?

[Sean Fennesy]

Like, what specifically has a lot of cut scenes. So there's a lot of, like, filmed narrative.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Of Last of Us.

[Amanda David]

So it's. You're really just, like, watching.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda David]

Someone like, then you have parts of.

[Sean Fennesy]

It that you play. So, like. And I think what Last of Us does is it puts you in the feet, the shoes of characters that you would ordinarily consider your antagonist. It's like, all of a sudden, I'm Caitlyn Fever.

[Amanda David]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know, in an open world game, you explore the entire terrain that the. The creators have made. So you're like, going all over the place that is made. Well, I'm trying to.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

It is, in a way. Yeah. Where you have. You have. You have free reign to explore your.

[Amanda David]

Right. And so you're just playing by, like, now I'm gonna build a house. And now I'm gonna.

[Rob Harvilla]

If that's a feature of the game, I guess so. I don't play any games anymore.

[Sean Fennesy]

What happened to Alex Garland? Retiring.

[Rob Harvilla]

I pressed him on that issue and he was like. He was like, I was not lying. It is true I have retired. But also I have an idea.

[Sean Fennesy]

It was the Tyrese Halliburton capstrain of directorial.

[Rob Harvilla]

Retiring. Yeah. Who do you got in Game seven?

[Sean Fennesy]

Oklahoma City. I'm sorry.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why are you sorry?

[Sean Fennesy]

I just don't think they're gonna lose at home.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay. You don't have to apologize for that. I think I find that to be a fascinating industry story. This guy who's like, theme, theme, theme in every movie.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Making a video game film for a 24. So that's like, that is where the industry lies right now. That's. This is the way to. We are, like, exiting comic book era and firmly in video game era. And what was the most recent movie that I was, Ballerina, where I was like, this feels like I'm watching someone play a video game. And that vibe, that experience of movie watching, I think will increasingly infect narrative.

[Amanda David]

So I guess they're like dragons in this. It sort of. It seems medieval.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's like Game of Thrones.

[Amanda David]

Well, I've read like 3000 words on Elden Ring, and I can't just be like, okay, like, what time? 3,000 words just while sitting there skimming, you know, looking for, like, proper nouns.

[Sean Fennesy]

You got this, mama. Your copy of Elden Ring is on the way.

[Amanda David]

I should try to understand.

[Rob Harvilla]

I could have gotten you Elden Ring for Mother's Day. What a missed opportunity this was.

[Sean Fennesy]

Are you Excited for the bone temple.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. That's a good way to close this conversation. So Nia da Costa is directing the.

[Sean Fennesy]

Next film in production.

[Rob Harvilla]

Currently the director of the Marvels and the Candyman reboot.

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Two films I did not care for. Not an English filmmaker.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

And this is a decidedly English story thus far. It's an interesting choice. Can be done, obviously. And it is next year. It's dated four.

[Amanda David]

That's what they say.

[Sean Fennesy]

They just haven't funded the third one. This movie is which Boilwood direct.

[Amanda David]

So what do we know?

[Sean Fennesy]

So it's Spike and allegedly Killian, but you would have to imagine there's a lot of Jack o' Connell in the second one.

[Amanda David]

Right, right, right. Any Rafe. Or he's just there tending his.

[Rob Harvilla]

He leaves the movie alive. As far as we know.

[Amanda David]

But that's not the bone temperature temple.

[Rob Harvilla]

You have to assume it is.

[Amanda David]

That's what I thought.

[Rob Harvilla]

There's another temple full of bones.

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

It'd be weird.

[Sean Fennesy]

I. I assumed that that was the bone temple, but I don't know. Maybe it's all about getting back to the bone temple.

[Amanda David]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

Where is. Where's our young lad headed? Is he walking across mainland England?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, they're on mainland England.

[Rob Harvilla]

But that, like, that's what his intention is, to go across the country?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. I think the island is supposed to be off the water because the angel of the north, that big statue that's out there, is up in Tyne, I think. So. I think they're supposed to be up in the northeast. Jodie Comer does a Geordie accent in this film. So I think it's supposed to be.

[Amanda David]

In northeast Tyne, you're right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

But. So he's just trying to cross the country.

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't know. What. I don't. On his spirit quest, he's not released as itinerary.

[Rob Harvilla]

What would Wayne Jenkins say about his.

[Amanda David]

No. How can he intend across. He doesn't know what the country is, you know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Great point.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. He doesn't.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

So what's he doing?

[Sean Fennesy]

It's also funny because he's gonna keep.

[Amanda David]

Walking until he can't see the ocean. That's what you know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I felt like his brain should have exploded when he saw an iPhone because he was like, what's a Frisbee?

[Amanda David]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

And then the guy's like, here's my girlfriend on my phone. Yeah.

[Amanda David]

And he was like, why does she look like that? So. But, you know, they said, I'm so.

[Rob Harvilla]

Glad she looks like that. Do you think this movie's gonna Be a big success because obviously they got the sequel going. This is. Was a weird case where they funded the movie and then Sony bought it or at least bought the rights to distribute it. It wasn't financed originally by the studio. I assume that the studio is behind the second one.

[Sean Fennesy]

Do you know what I'm a big believer in right now?

[Rob Harvilla]

Not caring.

[Sean Fennesy]

Old fashioned word of mouth.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And I think that.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I have not met someone who walked out of this film was like, that sucked. I've heard some. That was not for me. I've seen some withering critiques of it. But across the spectrum, people are loving the Alpha and what he's swinging with.

[Rob Harvilla]

And I think, would you let the Alpha impregnate you?

[Sean Fennesy]

I do think.

[Rob Harvilla]

Answer the question.

[Sean Fennesy]

Cinders is a really good test case where I think there was an initial, like, everybody's gonna go out and do their part.

[Amanda David]

Doesn't get, oh my God. Is not infected. It's inoculated.

[Rob Harvilla]

Clearly. Yeah, that's a great way of thinking about it. Forget about the placenta. Like, what about those, those guys, These.

[Sean Fennesy]

Guys shooting something different? I don't know. I have no idea.

[Rob Harvilla]

Do you know how sex works?

[Amanda David]

Like if it's like bloodborne, then it, you know, is probably like separated and the placenta does kind of close off a wall, you know, and you like.

[Sean Fennesy]

I would honestly pay a thousand dollars to watch you interview Alex Garland about zombie OB gyn.

[Rob Harvilla]

We didn't know.

[Amanda David]

Same blood type as your kid.

[Rob Harvilla]

Know that the zombies could get erections and stimulate.

[Sean Fennesy]

They're evolving, right? You know, they're, they're procreating because it's a, it's a natural imperative to do so. But let me just say I do, I do think that Sinners is a really good example of like a great word of mouth film.

[Rob Harvilla]

We fucking asked.

[Sean Fennesy]

I thought it was a good point.

[Rob Harvilla]

To sat down in my chair for a minute. That was great. I was trying to explore how this fucking zombie baby got born.

[Sean Fennesy]

Zombie seed. What do we know?

[Rob Harvilla]

And I'm like, that's why this is a podcast, bro. What do you. I think you're right. Some's happening at the movies, man. I know people are loving going to the movies now. They only want to go to horror movies and kids movies. But I'm okay with that.

[Sean Fennesy]

That works for all three of us.

[Amanda David]

You know, for its audience. Materialist did get a lot of people to the theaters. Everyone I know. And then everyone wanted to yell at me.

[Rob Harvilla]

They completely tricked the audience by making a rom com trailer and got, guess what? Put asses in seats. You know what that tells me? Make a real rom com.

[Amanda David]

I agree with you.

[Rob Harvilla]

Make a real classical rom com with young movie stars and put it in a movie theater. Am I right?

[Amanda David]

I accept.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

One more question. This film was heavily embargoed until the day before its release.

[Rob Harvilla]

Didn't understand this. I actually think it hurt the movie.

[Sean Fennesy]

I. I agree.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did not like this.

[Sean Fennesy]

I hope people go see it before they listen to us, because the. The wonder that I felt when I was like, this movie's spike was really cool.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. I mean, fortunately, this is coming out a little later than our episode usually would. And, you know, it does seem like people are excited to see it. It's, like, tracking pretty well for a movie of this kind, which is exciting. I'm very curious to see what the exit scores and all that stuff are, because horror audiences tend to vacillate, and it is. I think you can watch this movie and never think of Brexit, and it's a great experience. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't have to be that. Even though we talk about a lot about that in this conversation, but if you go to a movie looking for the ideas, there's so much to pull from.

[Sean Fennesy]

I was going to ask guys in the men's room at the Grove and be like, what did you think about that trenchant metaphor about Brexit? Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Man. So you were for Brexit. You weren't?

[Sean Fennesy]

No, I wanted to stay brothers with.

[Rob Harvilla]

The eu, Stay together. Okay, cool. Amanda, any closing thoughts?

[Amanda David]

I mean, I'm really trying to figure out what, like, the endometrial lining would do, you know, in the. In the infected situation. So that's. I haven't been listening to anything you said for 10 minutes.

[Rob Harvilla]

Got it.

[Amanda David]

I'm gonna have an incredible. Yet another episode of the Science Corner coming up soon.

[Rob Harvilla]

Solo Science Corner. So what would you want the theme to be of your solo mailbag?

[Sean Fennesy]

The real. You guys ask me anything about Sean and Amanda?

[Amanda David]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think people would want to listen to that, actually.

[Sean Fennesy]

What would you like?

[Amanda David]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

And what would you reveal? What's one tidbit?

[Sean Fennesy]

It's one of the great pleasures of my professional life.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, well, that sounds like a boring podcast.

[Amanda David]

Not good.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, reminder again. Mailbag Monday, 800 questions.

[Amanda David]

Movie questions. Please don't send us too many. Like, hey, conceive of a whole movie and then cast it out. And then also director and writer, because this is.

[Sean Fennesy]

You've opened yourself up to wanting all this input, but Then you want to curate the input.

[Amanda David]

No, no, I just. It's like I. Like I have a few movie ideas and I've shared them on previous mailbag episodes and it's like, you know, I'm.

[Sean Fennesy]

Are you worried about IP theft?

[Amanda David]

No, no, no, no, no. It's just like I have already shared.

[Rob Harvilla]

We'Re not movie creators.

[Amanda David]

Yeah. In previous mailbags, so I don't have any more. So like my ideas are getting bad, you know.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Amanda David]

So it's like, you know, a columnist only has so many columns before they.

[Sean Fennesy]

Got to retire restrictions.

[Rob Harvilla]

Funny, you keep getting questions from doctors.

[Sean Fennesy]

I should ask some of these doctors about zombie procreation.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, that would be a great episode. Extend an invitation to one of your.

[Sean Fennesy]

Doctors to the cast of the Pit.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. What does Noah Wylie think about the Alpha's ability to impregnate a zombie woman?

[Sean Fennesy]

Noah Wylie was definitely like, this is about Brexit.

[Rob Harvilla]

We should merge the world of the pit with 28 years later. That would actually be thrilling.

[Sean Fennesy]

Those guys would be incredibly useful in the this movie.

[Rob Harvilla]

I. I would also like to not cast any films or create the films, but otherwise, you know, I would be useful to talk about movies right now. I think that's a better line of conversation for us, is sort of like, what has come out this year? What has been, what's interesting, what are we seeing? What do we think is like really happening? Like, I think that stuff kind of comes up like anecdotally in discussion, but it's probably better driven through questions. And I think, you know, you're a tea leaf reader.

[Amanda David]

Am I?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I think so.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think you understand the game.

[Amanda David]

Oh, thanks so much. That's very kind of you.

[Rob Harvilla]

It'd be nice to hear your wisdom.

[Sean Fennesy]

You said that too.

[Amanda David]

I thought you were gonna say nice things only about us.

[Sean Fennesy]

Hang on there, mama. Odyssey is coming next year.

[Amanda David]

I am really excited for the teaser trailer and seeing it with you at 8am So I need you to come back from Portland.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'd like to thank you both for recording late on a Friday afternoon. I was awake at 5:30am Eastern today. And here I am at 3:30 after.

[Sean Fennesy]

Having gone through 28 years later and then driven quite far away.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yes, I flew on a plane and then I landed and I drove straight to the Ontario Mountain Village Regal Cinema. How was that experience? It was nice.

[Amanda David]

Oh good.

[Rob Harvilla]

It was fairly empty at my 10:48 screen.

[Sean Fennesy]

Hot out there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Very hot. Very hot. 15 degrees hotter than out here. And then drove here and sat with you guys and had a great time, so thank you for that. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. And, yeah, we'll be back with a mailbag. We'll see you then.

[Sean Fennesy]

I was doing the Princess Diana wave because it's about England.

[Rob Harvilla]

Keep that in the episode, please.

[Sean Fennesy]

Sam.