The Big Picture — Episode 5: ‘No Country for Old Men’ and ‘W.’ | Mission Accomplished

Podcast Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Brian Raftery (The Ringer)
Featured Guests: Oliver Stone, Josh Brolin, Gene Jones, Barry Corbin

Episode Overview

This episode of The Big Picture dives deep into two 2000s films that confronted the American mood at the end of the Bush era: the Coen brothers’ No Country for Old Men (2007) and Oliver Stone's biopic W. (2008). Through interviews with director Oliver Stone and actors Josh Brolin, Gene Jones, and Barry Corbin, host Brian Raftery explores how these films responded to the tumultuous, violent, and often confusing times of the early 21st century, examining how American cinema grappled with the Bush presidency, themes of inevitability, violence, and legacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Oliver Stone’s Perspective on Bush and History

• Stone's Early Impressions

  • Felt uneasy about George W. Bush's ascendance as president, remarking:
    • "It was very scary to me that I thought something was fucked up, frankly." (Oliver Stone, 00:19)
  • After meeting Bush pre-presidency, Stone sensed he was being controlled:
    • "There was a sense of a brainwashed president. I'd say everything was very programmed, like a Manchurian candidate." (Oliver Stone, 00:44)

• Dissolution of Goodwill Post-9/11 and Wars

  • Stone notes his hope faded due to the administration’s response:
    • "They declared the enemy before they even knew who they were. And they started to impose all kinds of emergency measures. They created a state of emergency in the country." (Oliver Stone, 01:18)

• Stone on the Bush Years as a Historical Low Point

  • "I could say from the beginning of the 21st century on, it was downhill." (Oliver Stone, 02:19)

• Making ‘W.’ – Motivation and Approach

  • Stone wanted to examine who Bush really was:
    • "I wanted to bring focus on who this man Bush was." (Oliver Stone, 02:36)
  • Unlike his earlier, angrier movies, W. intentionally restrained its critique, opting instead for a subtle, even empathetic study.

No Country for Old Men: American Violence and Inevitability

• Context of its Release

  • Released during a year of grim, unflinching movies (There Will Be Blood, Michael Clayton, Atonement), No Country stood out for its violence and bleak worldview.
  • The film won Best Picture at the Oscars, with Raftery noting its resonance:
    • "This is a movie that sticks with you for days... it constantly reminds you of your own powerlessness, that your life can be altered or even ended in just a single moment in ways that you never saw coming and for reasons you'll never understand." (Brian Raftery, 10:50)

• Iconic Scenes & Character Analysis

  • The Coin Toss Scene:

    • Gene Jones (gas station owner) shares how the tension is gradual and nearly imperceptible:
      • "There's no point where you think, oh, my God, something awful is about to happen. But there is kind of a boiling point..." (Gene Jones, 13:21)
    • Subtle terror is achieved through performance, not flashy direction.
    • Memorable Quote:
      • "You've been putting [your life] up your whole life. You just didn't know it." (Anton Chigurh/Gene Jones, 12:31)

  • The Conversation With Ellis:

    • Barry Corbin’s character delivers the film’s philosophical heart—violence is not new, it’s simply part of America’s fabric:
      • "What you got ain't nothing new. This country's hard on people. You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waitin on you. That's vanity." (Ellis/Barry Corbin, 19:55)
    • Corbin reflects on the truth in Ellis' words after a friend of his died suddenly:
      • "So that you never do know what's coming, do you? We're never in control... You don't own anything. You get here naked and you leave naked, and that's the way it go." (Barry Corbin, 21:04)

• Reflection on American Mood

  • The movie echoed a sense of national powerlessness post-9/11, Katrina, Iraq, and the 2008 financial crisis.

The Making and Impact of W. (2008)

• Stone and the Difficulty of Political Cinema in the 2000s

  • After success with World Trade Center (a relatively apolitical 9/11 film), Stone couldn't get studio support for W. due to audience fatigue with politics.
    • "No studio would touch it." (Oliver Stone, 29:40)

• Financing & Production Challenges

  • Stone assembled international backers, working outside the American system to raise $27 million (29:58–30:18).

• Casting Josh Brolin – Initial Resistance and Empathy

  • Brolin wasn't interested at first and was “horrified” at being connected with Bush. He came to appreciate Bush’s resolve even if he disagreed with him:
    • "I liked him. I liked his conviction, I liked his steel will. I liked his ability to reassess his life. And then I thought it was very interesting that he didn't carry that ability into politics." (Josh Brolin, 34:51)

• Portrayal of Bush: Satire and Sympathy

  • Stone on Bush’s simpleness:
    • "Nixon had many, many issues, but he was a three-dimensional man, whereas George Bush was a very simple man." (Oliver Stone, 32:43)
  • The film avoids making Bush a villain, instead suggesting he was manipulated by those around him—especially Dick Cheney (portrayed by Richard Dreyfuss).

• Key Scene: Bush’s Failure to Acknowledge Mistakes

  • Bush is unable to answer what mistakes he made as president:
    • "I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of the press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hasn't yet." (Josh Brolin as Bush, 40:36)

• Mixed Reception & Cultural Timing

  • The film received a divided response—too gentle for Bush’s critics, of no interest for his supporters.
  • Stone reflects that the film may have needed historical distance to be appreciated:
    • "I believe in retrospect, you need a little time away from Bush." (Oliver Stone, 44:26)

Parallels, Reflections, and Legacy

• Bush and Llewelyn Moss: Two American Protagonists

  • Both played by Brolin, both act on impulse and get in over their heads.
  • But, as Raftery notes, Moss at least recognizes when he’s outmatched; Bush, in Stone’s reading, never does (40:14–40:43).

• American Cinema After Bush: Moving On

  • By the end of 2008, Americans had emotionally and culturally moved past the Bush years—W. arrived just as Barack Obama represented hope for change.
    • "Technically speaking, the 2000s weren't over, but emotionally speaking, well, the decade felt kind of done." (Brian Raftery, 46:40)

• Changing Tastes in Film

  • Studios now shy away from the angry, political films Stone was known for; audiences are reluctant to re-experience recent national pain.

• A New Cinematic Hero Emerges

  • As the country enters a new era, Iron Man’s Tony Stark (another weapons manufacturer with a conscience) emerges as a different kind of leading man:
    • "His name? Tony Stark. His job? Weapons manufacturer, albeit with a conscience." (Brian Raftery, 47:22)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Amnesia:

  • "We never learn anything from history. That's the American way. It laid out out in front of us. We know and we go blundering in."
    — Oliver Stone, 04:28

• On the Feeling of the 2000s:

  • "It was enough to make anyone feel powerless and anxious, like there was always some rattlesnake under the floor."
    — Brian Raftery, 21:22

• On the Inevitability of Violence:

  • "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waitin on you. That's vanity."
    — Ellis (Barry Corbin), 19:55

• On Living in Unprecedented Times:

  • "What you got ain't nothing new. This country's hard on people."
    — Ellis (Barry Corbin), 19:55

• On the Difficulty of Facing History:

  • "It's very hard to acknowledge your own past."
    — Oliver Stone, 44:42

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Stone’s Initial Reaction to Bush & Post-9/11 America: 00:19–01:35
• How Stone Made “W.” & Its Reception: 02:36–04:28, 24:26–32:43, 34:14–41:12
• ‘No Country for Old Men’ Analysis & Coin Toss Scene: 09:05–16:31
• Barry Corbin on Violence and the Conversation with Ellis: 17:37–21:22
• Parallels Between Bush and Llewelyn: 40:14–40:43
• Wider Themes – American Amnesia and Cinema Culture Shift: 04:28–05:05, 44:42
• Obama’s Election – End of the Era: 45:05–46:40
• Rise of Tony Stark/Iron Man: 47:22

Final Reflections

The episode draws a line from the violence and confusion of the Bush years, as reflected in the American cinema of the era, to a national mood shift ushered in by the Obama presidency and a turn to new cinematic icons like Iron Man. Both No Country for Old Men and W. serve as time capsules and cautionary tales, with Stone and the Coens offering different but equally potent meditations on power, violence, history, and our inability (or refusal) to learn from it.

For listeners seeking a deep dive into American culture, politics, and film at the end of the Bush era, this episode weaves together sharp commentary, revealing interviews, and scene analysis in a way that feels as timely as it does essential.