Five Burning Questions About Awards Season, and Our Golden Globes Predictions. Plus: The Ingenious ‘No Other Choice,’ with Park Chan-wook!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Five Burning Questions About Awards Season, and Our Golden Globes Predictions. Plus: The Ingenious ‘No Other Choice,’ with Park Chan-wook!"

Podcast: The Big Picture (The Ringer)
Hosts: Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins
Date: January 8, 2026
Guests: Park Chan-wook (filmmaker, with interpreter Ji Won Lee)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the rapidly approaching Golden Globes, exploring the state of this year’s awards season, making detailed predictions, and discussing how predictable or surprising the race is shaping up to be. Sean and Amanda also dig into the masterful new film from Park Chan-wook, No Other Choice, and later in the episode, Sean sits down with Park for a rich interview about his process, adaptation choices, and more. The episode is packed with insights, Oscars analysis, and witty banter for cinephiles closely following awards season—or anyone who loves in-depth movie conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Awards Season Ennui and Predictability

Time: 00:17–04:36

• Sean expresses boredom with the predictability of awards season, noting that for the third year in a row, the Best Picture race feels “done and dusted” months ahead of the Oscars.
• Mentions of recent years: “Oppenheimer,” “Nora,” and “Everything Everywhere All at Once” as examples of early-set favorites.
• Amanda points out Sean’s discomfort with the films he loves being consensus favorites and jokes about his need for “despair or uncertainty.”
• They reflect on how age and taste intersect with the Academy’s evolving preferences, suggesting critics’ favorites often match the actual winners more than ever.

Quote

“I reach a certain point in your life and your taste, which you once thought was interesting and transgressive, is now middlebrow, mainstream Academy Awards fare. That’s fascinating that that's happening to me.” – Sean (03:00)

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2. Digging into Acting Races and Potential Surprises

Time: 04:36–12:06

• Discussion about "sleeper" acting nominees—those who could sneak in last-minute.
• Sean uses Fernanda Torres’ surprise nomination last year as a case study, then proposes Emily Blunt (The Smashing Machine) as a possible surprise despite his reservations about her performance.
• Amanda and Sean note that many “maybes” seem likely now, meaning there are fewer true wild cards in play than previous years.
• They analyze Best Supporting Actress and Best Actor categories, discussing the likelihood of Ethan Hawke, Jacob Elordi, Felicity Jones, and others rising or falling in the race.

Quote

“I feel like there’s always one surprise, one thing. Sometimes it’s a more lower level thing. Sometimes it’s an editing category. ... I’m trying to put my finger on it and I haven’t quite landed on it.” – Sean (11:33)

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3. Oscars Length, Eligibility, and Awards Season Fatigue

Time: 12:06–16:13

• The hosts bemoan how long Oscar season has become, suggesting moving the ceremony earlier in the year.
• Amanda and Sean discuss the shifting landscape: with major contenders (like “One Battle After Another” and “Oppenheimer”) being released before awards season, the eligibility calendar is less crucial, and the need for a long race is less persuasive.
• Playful ideas for The Ringer running its own alternative awards show.

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4. How Critics' Choices and Fake-Outs Affect Awards Season

Time: 16:13–18:04

• Talk of "fake-out" picks, where critics and precursor bodies champion certain names/movies—Rose Byrne cited—but the Academy ultimately ignores them.
• They break down how critical darlings (like Jacob Elordi in Frankenstein) could win precursors, but not Oscars, and debate which “Euphoria” cast members might win Oscars in the future.

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5. Analysis and Predictions: Major Globe Categories

Time: 26:58–71:04 A detailed walk-through of Golden Globes fields, including who should win versus who will win. The hosts often disagree and explain their reasoning in each category.

Key Points by Category:

• Cinematic/Box Office Achievement: Sean predicts Avatar: Fire and Ash, Amanda suggests Sinners might get it, enabling the Globes to give best drama elsewhere.
  “It’s a good argument. I wouldn’t be surprised [if Avatar wins],” Amanda (27:55)
• Best Original Song & Animated Film: Agreement that K Pop Demon Hunters will sweep animated and original song, praising how the songs are integrated into the film.
• Best Director: Both pick Paul Thomas Anderson but note that Panahi, del Toro, and Coogler could be in play.
• Best Picture (Drama & Comedy/Musical): Sean predicts Sinners and One Battle After Another as dominant, Amanda hints that It Was Just an Accident might shock in drama.

Discussion Highlights:

• Sharp, playful jabs about how nomination logic has become algorithmic (“the robot has become sentient”—Amanda 50:07) and how that may have made awards discourse more predictable, less fun.
• Critique of category boundaries (“stupidly responding to a wish and a desire,” Amanda 31:08) when major box office hits get cordoned off rather than fully celebrated alongside “prestige” films.
• Observations about rising international influence on the Oscars and Globes, especially Brazil’s voting bloc.

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6. In-Depth Feature: “No Other Choice” and Interview with Park Chan-wook

Time: 71:04–131:18

Spoiler-Free Take (+ Minor Spoilers in Recap)

• Sean and Amanda offer a loving, detailed review of Park's genre-blending new film: part social satire, part thriller, part tragicomedy.
• They celebrate the film’s intricate construction, dark comedy, and its “attitude that...everyone’s a fucking idiot. ... We’re all kind of screwed.”
• Recurring discussion of the film’s motifs: Bonsai, family as a “project,” the satirically-portrayed loss of middle-class security, and Park’s maximalist, energetic style.

Notable Quotes

“It is comedy. It is very, very hard to hit this tone, this consistently...not to mention all of the production design and the shots, the beautiful shots.... But there is a very specific understanding of the attitude this movie has about the world and the character in it.” – Amanda (72:22)

“He does kind of do what needs to be done in this movie.”—Sean (79:21)

Standout Moments From the Park Chan-wook Interview

Time: 94:04–131:18

• Adaptation Process: Park explains how the story was transformed from Donald Westlake’s novel and what shifted when moving it to a Korean context—especially the use of bonsai as metaphor for family and control.
• Set Design: Reveals the “French style house,” a symbol of Korean middle-class aspiration, was notoriously hard to find and is a commentary on faux-European dreams in Korean society.
• Technology and Modern Life: Park discusses balancing his “old-fashioned” filmmaking style with an accurate depiction of modern life, including the pervasiveness of smartphones and, in this film, AI.
  • “Even though my style is old fashioned...technology is inevitably tied to all of their lives. And I didn’t want to turn away from portraying that accurately.” – Park (106:45)
• Cinematic Style: Park aimed for more color saturation and contrast than usual, inspired by the film look of the 1970s; he discusses using shots like the beer glass POV for tension, not mere spectacle.
  • “I wanted each gulp, each moment to feel breathlessly nervous for the audience.” – Park (108:18)
• Empathy for Protagonists: Park relates to his protagonist’s sense of vocation as identity and their desperation at being rendered obsolete.
• AI as Existential Threat: The chilling ending, with automated logging machines and human labor made useless, is Park’s warning about the speed at which technology can render us redundant.
  • “AI, through the act of turning off the light, is sending a message...we don’t need you anymore.” – Park (126:47)
• Last Great Thing Seen: Currently reading Nabokov’s Pale Fire (“fanciful, but complex and humorous”), which speaks to Park’s love for inventive, challenging art.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “You reach a certain point in your life and your taste, which you once thought was interesting and transgressive, is now middlebrow, mainstream Academy Awards fare.” – Sean (03:00)
• “I mean, this is just an excellent. Everything about it is so well done... I can’t believe how good this is.” – Amanda, on No Other Choice (72:22)
• “He did it for his family, but it’s precisely those acts that destroyed it.” – Park Chan-wook (123:30)
• “I wanted each gulp, each moment to feel breathlessly nervous for the audience.” – Park (108:18)
• “AI, through the act of turning off the light, is sending a message...we don’t need you anymore.” – Park (126:47)
• “We didn’t mention ballroom dancing.” – Amanda, on yes, the brilliant offbeat elements of Park's film (86:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Start | End | Notes | |---|---|---|---| | Intro & Awards Fatigue | 00:17 | 04:36 | Awards predictability, Sean’s boredom | | Acting Surprises | 04:36 | 12:06 | Potential upsets in acting categories | | Oscars Length & Calendar | 12:06 | 16:13 | Fixing the bloated Oscars timeline | | Critics’ Choices & Fake-Outs | 16:13 | 18:04 | Precursor wins vs. Oscar reality | | Globes Category Predictions | 26:58 | 71:04 | Deep dive, playful debate | | No Other Choice Review | 71:04 | 94:04 | Spoiler-light, intense admiration | | Park Chan-wook Interview | 94:04 | 131:18 | Filmmaking, adaptation, AI, style, bonsai, last great thing seen |

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Tone & Style

The episode is witty, lived-in, and high-spirited, with conversational depth and cinephile flourishes. Sean maintains his self-conscious, slightly nerdy earnestness, while Amanda’s dry humor and cultural references keep things lively. Park Chan-wook’s segment is nuanced, quiet, and reflective, matching his reputation as a cinematic craftsman and intellectual.

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If You Haven’t Listened...

This episode offers a master class in awards analysis, both celebrating and poking fun at the hype cycle, and delivers rare insight into one of world cinema’s top filmmakers. It’s unmissable for awards nerds, critical darlings, and anyone curious about why the films that win, win.

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Further Listening & Next Steps

• Next week’s episode will break down all the post-Guilds nomination shifts with Chris Ryan.
• Post-Globes results/analysis promised immediately after the show airs!
• Reminder: No Other Choice is hitting wide release now—seek it out for one of the year’s best films.

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Transcript

[Sean Fennessy]

Foreign. I'm Sean Fennessy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm Amanda Dobbin and this is the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Big Picture Conversation show about no Other Choice and the Golden Globes. Today on the show, we'll dig into some Golden Globe predictions. We'll raise some serious questions about the awards season as we are on the precipice of some dramatic news or not. We'll also talk about no Other Choice, which is the new film from Park Chan Wook, the South Korean writer director who is a flat out genius. This is one of my favorite movies of the year. He is a guest on this show. Very excited to chat with him again. The film is getting a wide release finally in January, so more people will be able to see it. We talked a lot about how he made this film and how he goes about making films. I mentioned on our year end episode that he's extraordinarily, extraordinarily detailed in how he explains the choices that he made. So if you like the movie, you'll want to stick around for that conversation right after this. Okay. Amanda?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was working on the Golden Globe predictions last night and I was getting a little bored.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

And it was a sign that maybe I'm getting a little bored with awards season.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's not good, Sean, because the oscars are on March 15th. I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Something is happening right now that is interesting. For the third year in a row, the best picture race has been kind of done and dusted for like six months.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oppenheimer in 2023. Nora last year, though, we were never.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We assumed, you know, I guess we were trying to make it interesting, but I think our attitude was like, is it really gonna be a Nora? Really? Really?

[Sean Fennessy]

That was our attitude. That would be cool. You're right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Are we like, you know, are you guys sure? I would like it.

[Sean Fennessy]

But there was no other really legible potential winner out of the bunch. And so when it happened, there was very little surprise. And then, of course, this year, one battle after another has been steamrolling the competition. So as I mentioned earlier this week, I was like, maybe we don't know everything we think we do. Maybe this is overconfidence peeking its head up. And I want to hear some, some thoughts from you about potential surprises, how we could be off.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. I do also think that this is you, Sean Fennesee, trying to wrestle with having the movie you love be the clear winner. And you don't know what to do with those emotions. Right. And you don't, you don't know what to do with positivity and the Right outcome at or like an. An outcome that you enjoy at the Oscars. And so you're looking for anxiety. You're looking for outlets to talk, to be in, you know, despair or uncertainty, which you're more comfortable in.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe so, Maybe so. I don't. It might also just be building a wall around that feeling. And also, I think there's just. There's clearly like, an acknowledgement of age, of, like, you reach a certain point in your life and your taste, which you once thought was interesting and transgressive, is now middlebrow, mainstream Academy Awards fair. That's fascinating that that's happening to me, but it might be happening to me. I loved Oppenheimer. I loved Anora. All of a sudden, you know, I think this really started around Parasite, where I was like, whoa, no, that's not true. It started at Moonlight. When moonlight happened, I was like, what the hell? And then what actually happened is I was in my mid-30s. And when you start to get into this certain place in your life and your taste sort of aligns generationally with a lot of people that are in the same vein as you. So there may be something to that. There may be some protectionary instincts kicking in here, but I also think that there are some surprises. So we're recording this on the precipice of all of the Guild news. Essentially, you and I are both headed to New York this week for a fun trip, and so we're not. We're recording early. So we don't know the Screen Actors Guild nominations, we don't know the Directors Guild nominations, we don't know the Producers Guild nominations, cinematography nominations. This weekend, we'll see the bafta's long list. We'll talk about the results of all of these things with CR next week on the show, which will be interesting, but we don't know how any of that stuff's going to shake out. So this is kind of the last moment where the only thing that we have to go on is critics, bodies, Golden Globe nominations. No one who really makes movies has voted on anything yet. So let me start with this question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Last year, Fernanda Torres came on fairly late to get a Best Actress nomination for I'm Still Here. We've talked a lot about the Brazilian voting block, the strength of that nation. But if you had checked in in, say, September of the awards race in 2024, you would have thought Angelina Jolie, Saoirse Ronan. If you had checked in in December, you might have thought Pamela Anderson, maybe Marianne Jean Baptiste. After the awards praise or the critics praise that she got. None of those people were nominated for Best Actress. Fernanda Torres was. So is there a sleeper acting nominee right now? Someone who we don't really see coming?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, we've tried to protect ourselves against that by identifying that Wagner Mora is, in fact, the Fernando Torres of this year to an extent that we see it coming.

[Sean Fennessy]

But he's in, though. We already think he's in.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He's in.

[Sean Fennessy]

So there's nothing sleepy about Wagner. He's in.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. But, you know, I take issue with the premise of your question a little bit, which is that we. We pick our nominees in a way that. So we aren't surprised.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So, you know, so I. I guess maybe Inge Ibstadter. Lilias. But, like, we see her coming, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

She's good. I think she's in. This is what I'm saying. Like, who is a person that we don't really. I'll give you an example of. I don't think that. I think this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But I want to talk it out.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Emily Blunt.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

In the Smashing Machine, who was not well reviewed. No, I did not like her performance. It's the one thing in the movie that I really did not care for. But she is very admired. She's an expert campaigner. She's one of the stars of the big movies of the summer, Disclosure Day. She's nominated for a Golden Globe.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Excuse me. And also the Devil Wears Prada, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Well, she's the third lead, I guess, in that movie, but. Yeah. Do you think they're gonna pump up. If she had not gotten as famous, would they have made her as big a part? I guess it's an impossible question to answer because that's the movie that got her famous.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. That's the breakout role. And I do think that my understanding of the plot is that she plays a major. I mean, she should. But they've acknowledged that Emily has come up in the world.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. I'm not saying Emily Blunt's gonna be nominated for Best supporting Actress, but it's the kind of thing where a couple of names fall away.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She's been on the maybe since the very beginning.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. But we've written her off. You know, we're like, oh, it's Amy Madigan's time now. Teyana Taylor. There's some frontrunners in that category. Elle Fanning has kind of fallen away a little bit.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Let's name it. So it's Amy Madigan, I think. Yes. Teyana Taylor. Yes. Inga Ipsdotter. Lilias yes, yes. We've got two spots. I think Emily Blunt is very possible.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's interesting. Obviously, part of the Fernanda Torres fascination was just very few people were familiar with her work, and so she came on quickly. I don't know if there's another international performer who we don't know as well, you know, someone from no Other Choice that I was thinking about when I was going through that movie, and I was like, that would have been a really cool campaign to have had Son Yi Jin, who plays Lee Byun Hung's wife in the movie. That would have been like, a great campaign to see happen. And we've seen it happen a couple times in the past. We saw the grandmother from Minari, for example, come through with kind of a surprise campaign in a year where there was an opening. But I don't know if I see one in either of the supporting categories from Tani Maria. I know you're pitching that. You're pitching that from the Secret Agent. Yeah, that would be interesting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think that's probably a little too niche. You never know.

[Sean Fennessy]

So nothing else. Nothing else jumps out at you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Everything's. I think Ethan Hawke is someone that we thought, like, this could break. You know, this could break either way. But the critics have really boosted him and a press tour for the ages. So now it seems like that is definitely going to happen. And that's one where George Clooney, we would have said in. I think we probably did say in August and September was a lockdown. I think that's out. Ethan Hawke's in.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's one, though, where if he got left out, I wouldn't be shocked. You're right, most movies are smaller. There's some, like, which Linklater movie am I supposed to watch? For the kind of casual Academy voter.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Which Linklater movie am I responding to? It's very interesting how many people are like, oh, but did you see all the Black and White and Nouvelle Vague? Which. It's true. It's very interesting.

[Sean Fennessy]

It feels like a very 50 50, which is my favorite divide between the two of them. Yeah, that's an interesting one where, like, if you told me today that he won, I wouldn't be shocked if he just, like, charmed the pants off people for two months and worked so hard. And Chalamet alienated people. And Leo, you know, was kind of a little bit more in the background. Yeah, that wouldn't shock me, but it also wouldn't shock me if a smaller dramedy about, you know, an old gay man in a Bar in 1940s America. Like that wouldn't shock me either.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I. Yeah, we'll come back to that. Best actor race is really fascinating because like six months ago it was Jeremy Allen White and the Rock and George Clooney, as you said, and all these people who've all fallen away. What about Felicity Jones in Train Dreams? Could you see that? Interestingly, yeah. Interesting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She's Academy loved. Very good in that film. So Train Dreams, Best picture.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, think so.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Adapted screenplay nominee is not going to win, but that's okay. What else is for sure?

[Sean Fennessy]

Cinematography, I think.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Cinematography, of course. So that's not like a ton score, maybe. Okay, so that's awareness across, like above and below. But it doesn't seem like, I think that Joel Edgerton would also need a nomination to carry like her through as the supporting. I don't really think that that's happening.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't think it is either. Although we saw he was nominated at the Critics Choice Awards earlier this week. He was cited several times by Timoth.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, and. And the. An interesting reaction shot face. I, you know, listen, it seemed like they were just in an airplane hangar with like cheese and crackers. So, like, who can say what's going on? I'm not one to judge. I wouldn't be happy either.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a really interesting thing though, which films get acting nominations and which don't, you know, which best picture contenders are like, well, this is clearly an acting film, so we're going to, you know, shower it with praise.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Frankenstein's an interesting version of that. Where we talked after the Critics Choice Awards about whether Jacob Elordi has a real chance to win there. But then there's really no discussion of Oscar Isaac or Christoph Waltz or Mia Goth or any of the other performers in the movie beyond him. So I don't know. I feel like there's one. There's always one surprise, one thing. Sometimes it's a more lower level thing. Sometimes it's an editing category. Surprise. Or a best original Song. Surprise. It's been an acting one a lot in the past. And so I'm trying to put my finger on it and I haven't quite landed on it.

[Park Chan Wook]

I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, so I mentioned for the third straight year, it feels like Best Picture is kind of sort of settled. You could say the Everything Everywhere all at Once here was kind of sort of settled. You know, this has been happening. Coda was the last real surprise.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And Everything Everywhere all at Once was just how many awards, like other Oscars, can it pick up along the way?

[Sean Fennessy]

Correct. And it became ultimately a very big juggernaut and won several acting awards, which is, in retrospect, so strange. I like that movie, but it's so strange. Is this a bad thing?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, I think Oscar season is too long. I think that we should not be having to stretch this out until March 15th. I don't think it's good for the award season and I don't think it's good for the rest of the movies. I think we're now experiencing the two month hole in January and February of anything serious. And that's not totally fair because, like a lot of the international films and smaller films will be rolled out, which is, I guess, is like a proven release plan.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's good for no other choice, which is kind of on the fringes of the Oscar race. But, you know, it's not like Seurat is gonna make $25 million at the box office. So you're right that it gives a window to start releasing some of these movies, but none of these movies are gonna play on 3,000 screens.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I find this year to be particularly strange. Last year it started, the Oscars were the first week of March and that was great, I thought.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And they had been moving them back a bit.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. And so now we're back to March 15th. If the show happened on February 15th, what is lost? I'm not sure I understand. I know that there's maybe more money in the gears for FYC to kind of keep building and building anticipation, but I don't know. It's feeling like we're going to get too far away from the year in some ways.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I agree.

[Sean Fennessy]

And we're going to be six full months out from the one battle release. And it's like, what will the celebration of that movie even look like? In the same way, this is kind of mild nitpicking about the process, but I think when you sense that these movies get this level of momentum where they can't be stopped, and in the case of everything everywhere at once, it came out the previous March. So you had one year of ceaseless domination. It's just boring. It's even boring for the awards watchers. And so if this were sports, the competition committees would come along and they would say, like, what rules do we need to change? How do we mix this up to make this more interesting? You know, the NFL does this, The NBA does this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All of the NFL's rule rules are absolutely maddening.

[Sean Fennessy]

And sometimes they get it wrong. Like the NBA's end of game review Process right now is a fiasco. It's a nightmare. It ruins the experience of watching games, watching fourth quarters of basketball games. But they will at least consider it. The Academy is obviously considering a lot of changes. They're going to YouTube. They add it. They're adding a category this year. They're adding another category two years from now. Some things are underway. I don't know if this is a solvable issue, but it's something that I have been thinking about as someone who spends a lot of time thinking about this stuff.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think that, I mean, I just think they should move it up. I also think the Emmys should move to late January. And we just have awards season. We bracket awards show season. We bracket it all together. We schedule around the Super bowl, country.

[Sean Fennessy]

Music Awards as well.

[Amanda Dobbin]

When are those? I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

August.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Every once in a while, like a. You know, it's like the Billboard Awards and you're just like, oh, okay, like, who showed up to the airplane hangar tonight?

[Sean Fennessy]

Should the ringer do an award show? I'm serious.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We do you and I do an awards show.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alternative, sort of, you know, I'll be wearing, like, a black sweater and, you know, barely brush my hair.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And pop culture.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think so, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Would you be the host? I didn't say that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Hopefully we would hire a professional to do that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. You've always wanted to be a game show host. It's close enough.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not quite the same.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Would we reveal the vote tallies?

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, 100%. But who is the voting body?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. And then no one shows up. Me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Then no one would show up. Yeah, we should do that. I'm sure people would. There would be no controversy around that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They need to move it up. And, you know, the reason I do, I feel that the late March, like February. March is old and is predicated on, like, the December 31st eligibility. Ella, Bill, whatever. You can say it. Window. And the fact that for a long time and still the smaller films all rush in in the last two weeks before December. And so you needed to give air for all of the films to be released. But as you identified, you know, one battle was September. Everything everywhere was March. Oppenheimer was July. So now that the. The release schedule has changed and we're living with a lot of these movies for a lot longer, you don't have to give the room on the other side.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I don't. I think this isn't something that's gonna solve whatever the issue is with award shows in particular, but it is an Interesting thing where the elongation, I think, has diminished some interest. Do you think there's a fake out happening at the precursors right now? Someone who's been winning awards or who's been showing up? You know, you mentioned that the Kathleen Chalfont win for National Society of Film Critics was a very critics style pick. Shining a light on an underseen film, even a film that even a lot of pundits really haven't spent any time with. And so that's what the critical bodies can do. That's not really a fake out. A fake out is like Rose Byrne wins nine critical awards.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right, right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then is in fifth place in the best actress race. Cause people have a hard time finishing that movie. You know what I mean?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Extremely rude.

[Sean Fennessy]

And also, please, I'm citing it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Imagine you finish that film. The ending is wonderful.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's an imaginary example of something that can happen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't think that that's a F though. That is. I think some, some not even false confidence. I don't think that she's going to win. You know, I think you're probably right that it will be Jessie Buckley, but I do think she'll be nominated. And we're going to do Golden Globes predictions later on. I think we may see her on Sunday night. Well, that'll be interesting because of the category split. And so then maybe that's like a different fake. You know, maybe that's a Demi Moore. Oh, look, maybe it actually can happen after the Golden Globe speech. True fake outs. I mean, I do think Jacob Elordi will be nominated. I don't think that he's going to win. With respect to the Critics Choice Awards, I think it's always a good idea to have Jacob Elordi at your awards show.

[Sean Fennessy]

Elordi being the first Euphoria cast member to win an Academy Award would be interesting. Would be interesting. How many Euphoria cast members will win Academy Awards in their careers?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Zendaya Elordi, Hunter Schaefer. Do you think it's going to happen for Sidney? You think that that's her trajectory?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't, but the Housemaid sequel was just greenlit, so you never know. Could be 20, 27. No, I mean, you've got Maud Apatow.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Who'S gonna be in the sequel.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a really good question. The Avenging Housemaids. You know, it's gonna be like an Avengers style thing where they all take.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, there's a new one. No, she goes to a new house. But so, like, who's the new house?

[Sean Fennessy]

Good question. Katherine Hahn.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That'd be great. That would be really good. Yeah. You know, Katherine Hahn. I don't know whether she needs help, you know, but I guess she could.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, like she could do it herself.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess the setup is that she is.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it's Katherine Hahn and David Harbour.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Do you watch Stranger Things?

[Sean Fennessy]

No.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Me? I mean, I just.

[Sean Fennessy]

I did watch the first two seasons, and I began the third season and I said, no, thanks.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I watched a few episodes. I've just been checking in with people. Just like a thumbs up, thumbs down.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's actually quite nice for there to be a big cultural event happening that I have no part of. I feel kind of a sense of relief. And I've never once heard someone discussing the show and thought, I really should catch up with that. No shots to anybody who made it. That just doesn't interest me at all.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm trying to think of who. I mean, Maude Apatow has a movie that she directed coming out in May, Poetic License, which played a tiff which people seem to really like. I haven't seen that yet. So she strikes me as someone who could legitimately win an Academy Award because she's an actor. She's gonna be a writer, director. Who else is in that cast? Who are the other. Who are the cast members?

[Amanda Dobbin]

We've gone past my knowledge of Euphoria.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Euphoria. Great show. Honestly, I love it. It's insane. It doesn't seem like it's made under the safest circumstances. I quite enjoy it. I don't know if there's another big fake out. Is Timmy a fake out? Has this been Leo's Oscar all along? Is the thing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, no. I mean, right now, what I'm operating under is Timmy and Leo cancel each other out, and it's Wagner Mora, because you gotta think about. You genuinely think that's gonna happen right now? That's what I'm thinking about. You gotta think about the international voter base, and you gotta think about where the votes are going. And Timmy trying to dial it down now and, like, be a sweet guy and, you know, thank his foundation, which is a person and not an actual foundation, as Amanda Seyfried commented on Instagram, which is why she is number one forever. She was like, oh, she means. He means, like, her person. I was confused.

[Sean Fennessy]

Who's his foundation?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Kylie Jenner.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, yeah. Oh, like the foundation. She's my foundation as a human being. That's what he said. Not his charity. Right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Anyway, so Timmy style and a Jack.

[Sean Fennessy]

Amanda Seifer said this on Instagram. She just went live on Instagram?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, no, she just commented. She's just like. She just commented. Oh, he means like a person. I was confused.

[Sean Fennessy]

Commented where?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Like, in the Instagram comments, I think on someone aggregating it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, why is she doing that?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Get on.

[Sean Fennessy]

Hide. I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Because people have fun. Women in their 40s. That's what we do.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's. That's exactly what I was thinking. Women in our 40s, we have fun. That's what we do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She gets in fights on TikTok.

[Sean Fennessy]

Jimmy. And I was like, 32.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I know. That's why I said Instagram was for women in their 40s.

[Sean Fennessy]

Named after cooking right now.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Amazing stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

Testament of Ann Lee. I talked to Mona Fastfold on the show yesterday. Genius. Awesome, awesome conversation. And, yeah, she talked about what Amanda Seifer did for, like, 14 months. Making that movie is astonishing. While also, I guess, checking Instagram and commenting on Timothee Chalamet speeches. Love her.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That was. That was on Sunday. Okay, anyway, Timmy's turn. Dialing it down.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Leo is literally, like, vlogging from Jeff.

[Sean Fennessy]

Bezos yacht, you know, so literally vlogging.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What do you.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is being recorded. You can't just say shit like that. He's not vlogging.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He said a video acceptance speech.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, okay. All right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

There's an H.G. wells book in the background of that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is that true?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm pretty sure. I. No, I think it just said H.G. wells.

[Sean Fennessy]

I, like, zoomed in, like a biography of H.G. wells. That's truly dystopian to be on that yacht and reading H.G. wells.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, I. Listen, it hasn't been confirmed to me that that was the. The yachts library, but it sure looked like the yacht of a library. You know, the library of a yacht owned by a man who ruined the book industry.

[Sean Fennessy]

So H.G. wells power rankings. Go top 10 novels.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I have not read any H.G. wells.

[Sean Fennessy]

War of the Worlds.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. Yeah, that's a good one.

[Sean Fennessy]

So time machine, Dr. Moreau. Listen, that's three.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I can think of some more.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's good. Can't name 16 Austin novels, but can't name Pride and Prejudice. But that's.

[Sean Fennessy]

She. Wells is a man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And they're, you know, they're both working with it, but I do think that they attract a similar kind of voter. But are you a Leo, or are.

[Sean Fennessy]

You a women in their 40s?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Tammy Shelley. And then. Anyway, right now I'm not picking to be to win. So if you consider that a fake.

[Sean Fennessy]

Out, then yes, it's a really. It is the coolest race to me, because you've got a ton of really worthy contenders. We haven't even talked about mbj. You've got mbj, Wagner, Mora, Timothee Chalamet, Ethan Hawke, and Leo is a sick category. That's an awesome and incredibly deserving group. It's possible other people get in that we're not thinking of, but that feels like the five to me. And if that's the case, it'll be a fun one to talk about. Okay, number two, what movie will you be sick of discussing by March 15th? Because we do have two more months of this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, Frankenstein.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Will we even discuss it that much? I guess.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I do think that it's going to get a raft of nominations. Right. Like, I don't think Jacob Elordi is going to win, but the, you know, the support for Frankenstein is not fake.

[Sean Fennessy]

Probably gonna be around 8, I would guess. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And I did, you know, I thought all of the productions design and the creature design was like, it was good, spectacular. But I mean, like, how many times you can say, like, what they like, you know, he really. He looked like a tall monster.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, he looks like he belongs actually in a Spider man movie. But I thought that was kind of ingenious, that they just kind of dispensed with our expectations of what that monster was gonna look like entirely.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, I. I thought it was very cool. I like all of it, but I don't know if I have two and a half months of. They really did that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I mean, that's obviously the movie that I like the least that is competing heavily. Although I don't really know what the Academy thinks of Wicked for good. I don't know what any of these bodies. That's something that I think will be revealed to us over the next four or five days. Is. Is that movie more in? Because it's so Hollywood, because it's the conclusion of a big stage show? Because John M. Chu is a real ambassador for Hollywood and he's got a lot of supporters. I don't know. I could see a world where, like, the worm turns on that and everybody like us who thought they were so smart because they realized that this movie stinks. Like, sometimes it doesn't matter. Sometimes a lot of movies that we think are legitimately bad movies get nominated for Best Picture, you know, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close or Incredibly Close, whatever. The Extremely Close. Incredibly Loud. What's the name of that movie?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, I was about to say Up Close and Personal.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Magician's Nephew. Yeah. I mean, those movies. Movies like that get through all the time.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Artist won, like, five Oscars. That's true.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is gonna get in.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, that would be a cool surprise. Yeah, that would be a cool. It was. Did it make the international shortlist? It didn't.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

For France. Wasn't submitted as the French. I filmed for the international shortlist. I don't remember how that shook out. Am I losing my mind?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, but. But it was just an accident. Is the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, you're right. You're right. Excuse me. Yes. They tried to submit Nouvelle Vague, but France chose it was Just an Accident. Thank you. Okay, so here's the last one.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

What movie should we do another episode about?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

To celebrate ahead of the ceremony or to dig deeper ahead of the ceremony.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sinners. Just because it's been a while.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Yeah. I hadn't thought of that. It's a good idea.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And, you know, I can finally see the end credits, but I think there's just been a lot more. I think we could talk about the history and all the references, and we know a lot more about production choices, the score, all of that stuff that seems. That was April.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was April. It was April. It was a long time ago. Yeah. Actually, even just hanging out with Jack and Van yesterday after we were recording, we were just talking about all the movies this past 12 months and some of his feelings about Sinners. And it was a long time ago. And we had a conversation with him on the show. We talked about Chris on the show about it, but it was a lot of, like, the excitement when we first saw it, and then the weird, why is everyone pocket watching this movie? And then it kind of faded away. And the movie has a lot of detractors, too. You know, that's the thing, is it's critically acclaimed. There's obviously, like, a racist level of detractors. But even if you remove that, I think there are a lot of people who are like, this is kind of a mishmash of, like, three or four other movies. And they don't like it as much. For those reasons, I obviously. I love movies like that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, that's.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's it. Yeah. That's an amazing synthesis of styles. But I think kind of. You're right. Digging through some of those details would be a lot of fun on an episode. Okay. You want to predict some Golden Globes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. I told you before we started recording That I did my homework, but I haven't made any decision. There are a few categories where I haven't made the decisions.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And so I'm going to do it live. Which you didn't flare your nostrils when I told you so.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, I think that's fine. We can talk it out.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Was one of them the Cinematic and box office Achievement award?

[Amanda Dobbin]

It was.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. I have a pretty clean answer for this one.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is. I believe it will be Avatar, Fire and Ash.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You do?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Because I think that this movie is once again extremely powerful and more powerful in both arenas than people expected. That it is still great filmmaking spectacle and also is, you know, pushing towards $1.5 billion. So I could be wrong, but it now appears to be on the outside of the Oscar race. And because of that, this is a way to honor what is a movie that is, like, killing in theaters right now.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's a good argument. I wouldn't be surprised.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I believe that the Barbie Oppenheimer year, this is the award that went to Barbie.

[Sean Fennessy]

It is.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So my instinct has thus been, is this Sinners? This goes to sinners.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Listen, and I want to be clear. I'm not advocating for what I'm about to say, but if they give Sinners box office and cinematic achievement, then it opens up drama to do one of the international features. And there are so many.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow. You know, the discourse will be super obnoxious of that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Of course it will. But don't forget, they quote, unquote, redid things. But it's the Golden Globes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And I think you just. You gotta look. We were both very surprised by the number of international features that made both categories, that made screenplay that made, you know, a lot of. A lot of categories. So I am curious whether they do sinners here and then do something else. So I'm just gonna say sinners here and then I'll make my best drama decision.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that's great. It's great that we're different on that. And I think that's insightful. Would be an interesting outcome. It could also win both.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Let's be very clear that I think this is an insulting category and, sorry.

[Sean Fennessy]

Your movie wasn't good enough for us to nominate you in a best drama.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Category and that Sinners deserves best drama. It's also. It's ironic that, like, Frankenstein, because it was a Netflix film, is not eligible for this because this is the most Frankenstein shit of all time.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a great point. There's this whole Raft of a certain kind of movie that should be eligible here. And wasn't Taylor Swift the Eras Tour nominated last year in this category? Like there's a, you know, is that a movie even? You know, it's a concert film, I suppose. But this is all I, you know, I think there's a strong case in this category for F1.

[Amanda Dobbin]

F1, I thought you might go there.

[Sean Fennessy]

F1 is definitely. And F1 to me feels like a more fitting Victor, you know. Cause it's an original film, it played huge internationally, it's Apple's first really big win. And it's a way to kind of keep them involved in the Golden Globes game in a way too because they're not going to really have any other wins going down the line here.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Are we going to do like some infographic of this where I pick sinners and then and whatever and people yell at me and call me racist? Because I really, I don't want to do that.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's all up to you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, great. Because I don't believe that that's what should happen.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm just doing personally draw the infographic. I will draw your portrait. I will write all the correct answers that are the most racist seeming for you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I do not agree with what I am predicting.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I know this is the problem with this. So I mean the other thing is K Pop Demon Hunters was a Netflix movie is clearly a huge achievement. It's one of the most streamed movies of the year. When they deign to put it in theaters. It made a shitload of money. But it's not really a wide release movie. So this, it's a really interesting category. And then we're not even talking about Zootopia 2, which is going to be $2 billion. Yeah, it's fucking.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Crazy movies are back. Have you heard about this? Yeah, they're fucking back.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I know, it's very exciting.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's so good. You know what else was a big hit actually in the same vein as Sinners. And if Sinners was not here, Weapons would be a good case for this too. This is a dumb category that does create some interesting discussion. How about that?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think this category is stupidly responding to a wish and a desire that we and many other people have. Which is to say see like good big budget entertainment represented at awards shows.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And if you like, it can be done very poorly, it can be done very well. But when you do it very well and you pull it off, it is like an art of a kind and it's a different type of art than one battle after another or Sinners. But. And you know, sinners is like does it all and that is like a very special achievement. But I think we think that achievement is just like the best of achievement rather than some asterisk category.

[Sean Fennessy]

Where is a Minecraft movie in this category? Where is it? Yeah, why is it not here? Is Wicked for Good so dramatically better than a Minecraft movie? I'm not so sure. I'm not sure you could convince me of that. And did it inspire the same fervor?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

That a Minecraft movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You live in a Wicked for Good house?

[Sean Fennessy]

Sure do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Do you listen to the Wicked songs or Wicked for Good songs more right now?

[Sean Fennessy]

You know what we're really enjoying and honestly I'm enjoying this as well is the one night only performance of Wicked.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

With Ariana Grande at the Dolby Theater. And then I think they perform one song from Wicked for good and that some bangers on that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Have you ever been to the Dolby Theater?

[Sean Fennessy]

Certainly you have. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I went for the first time this year because the Los Angeles Ballet performs the Nutcracker at the Dolby Theater. Took my son. I just. We could use a spruce up. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I was like, wow, they have. Well, I just, they have the Oscars there. And I was like, I, you know, I can. We could use some upgraded chairs. I feel for these people.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Dorothy Chandler Pavilion was no great shakes either. You know, it's. It's an award show. It's not a, it's not a luxury home.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I was just kind of like, everyone must be pretty uncomfortable.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's actually one of the things that we didn't talk about with YouTube getting the Academy Awards is that the possibility of the show being even longer. But I think many pundits out there. I heard Katie Rich say this on Prestige Junkie, that she was like, you know, it is actually like an award show where you have to be seated. So they're not going to make the show seven hours. Like they're not going to make incredibly famous people sit for that long. Which was a really smart observation. That being said, make it seven hours. Just do it. I'd like to watch it. Best original song from a motion picture. The nominees in this category are Dream is one from Fire Nashville sung by your girl, Miley Cyrus, golden from K Pop Demon Hunters, I Lied to you from Sinners. No Place Like Home from Wicked for Good. The girl in the Bubble from Wicked for good. And Train Dreams.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. Which you performed on the soundtrack.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Performed by Nick Cave.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Golden.

[Sean Fennessy]

Golden.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Which is great. Deserving. I'm still outraged that K Pop Demon Hunters will not get multiple nominations in this category. Because golden was the only song shortlisted.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And generally I think that this category is an abomination of songs played over credits by pop stars who need a check. And all the K Pop Demon Hunter songs are A catchy and B woven into the film itself.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. I agree. That is the strongest case for it is that they are essential to the telling of the story.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. But no one consulted me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Best Motion Picture Animated. Now, historically you tend to rely on some friends of the show.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. I didn't text Griffin and David on this one though. Hi, Griffin and David. I love you.

[Sean Fennessy]

They. David was amused by your concern over Narnia. He let me know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Just so you know, David, you have my phone number. I have seen three of the six films on this list already. Look at me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow. So you've seen Demon Slayer, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Infinity Castle. Impressive. The nominees here are Arko Demon Slayer, Elio, K Pop Demon Hunters, Little Amelie or the character of Rain. And Zootopia 2. I'd like to take a moment to speak to you about Little Amelie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Little Amelie or the character of Rain.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I watched this film. I watched it with my daughter. The film is in French.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Great.

[Sean Fennessy]

She watched the whole movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's adorable.

[Sean Fennessy]

Doesn't read. Yeah, doesn't read subtitles.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She's getting there.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is it French or Belgian? I can't remember. I think it's about a Belgian family that moves to Japan and this two year old girl, like two and a half year old girl, a young toddler, kind of experiencing the world, making this connection with her nanny in Japan. And it is beautiful. I thought it was a beautiful movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's wonderful.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I hope more people get a chance to see it. It was actually quite fascinating to sit with Alice and watch something and not talk and it not be in English and her to be completely mesmerized by it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What did she ask you afterwards? Or like what?

[Sean Fennessy]

Nothing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Nothing. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

She didn't feel the need to have it explained to her. I think she understood it well enough by observing it. It's a really a beautifully made movie, hand drawn animation and I liked it. It has a 0% chance of winning in this category and it will be the least seen film in this category by a wide margin. Arco, probably next in line there, which is a cool movie. That Neon Released. The others are really the big hitters. And I have to assume this is K pop. Demon Hunters.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I do as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

But there's a case for Zootopia too.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

Big hit. People love it. Demon Slayer would be really bold. Me personally, I would have gone Chainsaw Man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

But maybe an acknowledgement of the anime craze and what it means to theatrical movie going right now around the world.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Would be kind of a cool stroke. The. I haven't seen Demon Slayer, by the.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Way, nor have I W Mag released its Best Performances of the Year issue. And the. You know, they do the accompanying videos with Lynn Hirschberg and Michael B. Jordan's answer to the last movie that made him cry were was first of all, Armageddon, which makes him cry every time, which is same Michael B. Jordan. And then I don't remember the name of the anime anime movie. But he explains it and he was like, it was the fifth season and then a whole. I guess it was a show. It was very beautiful and it made me moved.

[Sean Fennessy]

Even though, wow, we got to find out what that was. It wasn't one of these movies. It wasn't Chainsaw Man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't think so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, cool. Chainsaw Man. So confusing because it is a sequel to a season of television.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. We've seen that before. Yeah. It's called Downton Abbey.

[Sean Fennessy]

Great point. Although there were like four seasons.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Can I just say to you, salute to you for Downton Abbey. The finale or whatever in your top.

[Sean Fennessy]

50 movie was great.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It was great.

[Sean Fennessy]

I had a ball. We had a ball.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We did. But I just like, you know, real ones know. And I tip my hat to you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging it. And we love what we love.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure. Also, wherever you put Hamnet was really funny. It's sandwiched in between two things. I was like, that's my guy.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't even remember being so surgical.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You're crazy. But it was good stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

I have strongly held beliefs. Best original score. Interesting category here because there's a big surprise in this one. The nominees were Alexander Desplat for Frankenstein, Ludwig Aranson for Sinners, Johnny Greenwood for One Battle After Another, Kong Ding Ray for Surat, Max Richter for Hamnet and Hans Zimmer for F1. I don't think Hans Zimmer or Kongding Ray are getting in at the Academy Awards. I could be wrong about that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. Seurat was big on the short list, which surprised us both. And I think that is a bit of a reflection of the people who Vote both on the shortlists and who watch all the international features are more disciplined than your average voter. But, you know, it has awareness. And then it was on, I want to say Indiewire's survey of the director's favorite movies of the year. There was a lot of Surratt and there was a lot of new Belvog.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Surat episode coming. We got to figure out when we're going to do that. I'd like to. There's a couple of scores from this year that I feel like are a little overlooked.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I kind of made fun of Erskine Hendrixkin Fendrix's score from Poor Things a couple of years ago, but I thought what he did with Begonia was amazing. And I listen to it quite frequently. I really like it. I've been listening to a lot of scores lately.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Just being like. And now let me cue up. The Begonia score is another incredible insight into your life. What time of day are you putting on the Begonia score?

[Sean Fennessy]

Time.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

At dawn, at dusk, as I.

[Amanda Dobbin]

As I go to bed, I. I read your, you know, top hundred movies of the year, like, in my kitchen during breakfast while my children scream like we're banging measuring cups. And the Marty supreme score was playing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Many people are saying that my list making is the soma of life and that we can get through the hard times by looking at lists that I have created. Nala Senefro's score for the Smashing Machine is unbelievable. Is an amazing work of composition, and that movie has gotten kicked a lot in the last few months. I know a lot of people don't like it. I like it. I now think it's, like, underrated relative to the Marty supreme craze. And I think one of the ingenious aspects of it is this score. I would love to see something like that around here.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The score over the fighting sequences, and it's the way it's married to the way that those fights are cut.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And cut. It is beautiful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Totally. I love that so much. I mean, obviously we've been talking about Daniel Lopatin score for Marty supreme, which is not nominated here. I would love to see it nominated at the Academy Awards. Trying to think, what are some other ones that I've really clicked on. Can you just vamp for a second while I open up my playlist that I've built?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Thank you, Sue. Would you like me to make my prediction here or just talk through? I mean, there's. There. I think it will be Ludwig Garnson for Sinners, but it could go Johnny Greenwood. I don't think it will, actually.

[Sean Fennessy]

He hasn't won. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But I don't really think that the Golden Globes care about that. And you could see Alexander Desplat for Frankenstein, because I keep. Which I don't agree with, but I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Really didn't like that score.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I didn't like it either, but it's.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not like the scores. He's not in the house.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Again, this is not what we would do. It is what we think the Golden Globes would do. And I think they're going to be looking for some Frankenstein opportunities.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alexander Des Plot and Ludwig Goransson are both two time winners.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Again, it's.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's crazy. He went for Grand Budapest and Shape of Water and Ludwig won for Black Panther and for Oppenheimer. So overlooking Johnny Greenwood again, even though this isn't my favorite Johnny Greenwood score, I personally much prefer at times There Will Be Blood and the Master and Phantom Threat. I think all three of those are super superior to this, but it's the most different and the most varied. Yeah. In terms of the different instruments that he applies, the different tones and moods that he's using. So I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I am thinking more about the entire ballot and where people and I. And I do think that one battle is going to have enough representation in other places that people are going to be like, I don't know, I should. I mean, you could make the case that Seurat is so surprising that there's just like enthusiasm for it and then they'll suddenly be on stage at the Golden Globes. I don't think that that's gonna happen.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't wanna besmirt to that score too much, but it is like starter kit club music, you know, like, it's just. It's rave music. It's. Well, it's well applied in the film. But is there anything like audacious or creative or overwhelming about it? I mean, to me that's like. That would be a prize for the filmmaking choice, not for the actual composition of the score. But you know what? It's maybe everything all at once. Couple of other scores I want to shout out. Christopher Baer, your guy from Grizzly Bear, did the score for Roofman. Really good. David Holmes, as always, crushed it on Black Bag, working with Steven Soderbergh. Jung Jae Il on Mickey 17, working again with Bong Joon Ho, the Holiday Brothers on Weapons. Longtime friends of Zach Kreger's. I loved their work. I did like Bryce Desner's work. I'm not A national fan, but I did think his work on Train Dreams was really nice.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, beautiful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Um, Vocal Bertleman in House of Dynamite. You know, a movie that I'm really mixed on, but I think the score is quite good.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, very good.

[Sean Fennessy]

Daniel Pemberton for Materialists.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot of really good scores this year, so I just wanted to shout some of them out. Okay, next category, you'll have another opportunity.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We have two and a half more months of.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're right. Who did you. Sean, you need to make your pick. I'm going to pick Johnny Greenwood just to. Just to. Just to mix it up, because I think you're right that Ludwig is going to win, but to me, we need to kind of see if the Johnny Greenwood thing can happen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Best Motion Picture, non English language. It Was Just An Accident. No other choice. Secret Agent. Sentimental Values Seurat, the voice of Hindra Job.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I'm going with Secret Agent here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I wrote It Was Just an Accident.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So here's the thing.

[Sean Fennessy]

What is the thing?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Secret Agent has one other nomination on this. On this page.

[Sean Fennessy]

Smart.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And It Was Just An Accident is everywhere else now that suggests. I think I did have. It Was Just An Accident. I think instinctively I wrote that and then deleted it and put Secret Agent because there aren't that many other places where they can reward Secret Agent.

[Sean Fennessy]

It Was Just An Accident has four nominations total.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I. But I think that there's such enthusiasm for the Secret Agent.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, I'll go with that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They're going to pick the opportunity here and they can maybe like, parcel it out to It Was Just an Accident somewhere else.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sounds really smart.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. I mean, it could also. The other way to read it is It Was Just An Accident has four other nominations. So they really love it. So they're giving it to It Was Just an Accident. So maybe I'm being stupid because the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Golden Globes is such a smaller body relative to the Academy Awards or even some of the big guild votes. They can dole out awards to a variety of different films. So the way that you're thinking about it is it makes a lot of sense and they can be more strategic in terms of getting more people up on stage and more films spread around. Whereas at the Oscars in the last four or five years, it's been a little bit more of like one film wins four, five, six Oscars and you get this consensus building for films around that time. So I think that makes sense. That being said, It Was Just an Accident is a huge statement I agree.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, I think it is going to show up. Like, I argued both sides of it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. I'm going. This is good that we're splitting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And mine also, like, gives a lot more credit to the voters than perhaps they have evidence that they deserve.

[Sean Fennessy]

I suspect that this thinking will come up again in this next category, which is best performance by a female in a supporting role. Nominees are Emily Blunt for the Smashing Machine, Elle Fanning for Sentimental Value, Ariana Grande for Wicked For Good, Inga ib's daughter Lilias for Sentimental Value, Amy Madigan for Weapons, and Teyana Taylor for One Battle After Another.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We forgot Ariana Grande in our supporting actress discussion. I do think that will happen.

[Sean Fennessy]

You do think it will happen, but you don't think Cynthia Erivo will happen?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I didn't say that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You were putting that into. I said that we would see how much she wants to work it. But I do think that Ariana Grande. The reviews for Ariana Grande were like, the big. She's so great. And everyone thinks Cynthia Erivo is great, but they were very mad about her sex cardigan or whatever.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I don't know if mad was the word, but they had opinions. Yeah, there's. So then there's someone missing from this list right now. If we're assuming that Emily Blunt is not in and perhaps Elle Fanning is not in as well.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know who that is. Onemu Misaku.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That would be wonderful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Who am I forgetting?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I can't remember. Onemu Misaku would be great.

[Sean Fennessy]

I picked Teyana Taylor.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Considering the way that you are analyzing this, you might be right that it's going to be either Amy Madigan or Inga Ipsoder Lili.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I have Inga Ipsoder Lilias.

[Sean Fennessy]

Because this is the way to acknowledge sentimental value.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. Because I think that she is a real breakout star. And also because these are. These are. They are no longer the Hollywood Foreign Correspondents association, but Hollywood Foreign Press for Hollywood Foreign Press Association. That's right. And then the other made up. One is the Correspondent's Dinner.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's the White House.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I'm hosting that this year, by the way. Did I tell you? I'm super excited. I've got a lot of great stuff lined up, a lot of good ideas.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Can you imagine? That is maybe the only thing where I would just be like, we're done. That's like, I think, literally. Yeah, literally anything else in the world you could go do. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure. And if you are like. What I need to do is I need to host the correspondence.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I've been talking to Hegseth for months. It's going to be great.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We are on different paths. And that is. I wish you well.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. We got to get our Avengers doomsday episode in first though. Just. We can't stop until I've hosted the White House Correspondents Dinner, which I don't think happens anymore. And I'm not keeping up nine hour pod on doomsday.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. So you're going Inga ips daughter Lilias. What happened to Sentimental value? What happened?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, it's coming back a little bit.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is it?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. You loved it. Paul Thomas.

[Sean Fennessy]

This movie's gonna win best picture in July.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I know. I have the text message. My friend Lauren loved it.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So that's three people I know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow. It's quite a quorum.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I admire two of the three people's taste.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I really thought it was gonna be stronger. And I think part of it is that Secret agent. And it was just an accident. Have been so strong. And so there being this many international films is a relatively new phenomenon. And so the groups tend to kind of lean towards one or the other maybe a little bit. Is that it's somewhat similar to the worst person in the world. Maybe it doesn't feel different enough with Renata Renzve and the story of young women going in crisis and family trauma and. I don't know. I don't know. But I really. As I've said nine times now in the last three months. I really think that film is quite good. And particularly it's a case where I try to not get cranky about other critics taking movies down these days. I did that a lot in the past on this show. That's the one movie where I read reviews of that movie. And I'm like, this is such axe grinding. This is such. I can't understand it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's funny. There's axe grinding in the movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

There is.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know, which is interesting. And I think that is one of the reasons that I was. It's. It's three different movies and also one movie. And there's still moments in it. I mean, the house opening is so transcendent.

[Sean Fennessy]

Beautiful filmmaking and writing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And the shot of the house towards the end. Again, I'm a superficial person who was most affected by all the stuff about the house.

[Sean Fennessy]

But that's part of the reason why it's such a great movie. I thought you were gonna love it. I was blown away that you were not that into it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I really tried twice, but I like all the performances again, me and Scandinavians, you know, it's a dialogue.

[Sean Fennessy]

It is. It sure is. I don't know. That's right. You guys are figuring things out. So much in common and yet so different.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I just. I don't know. You know, I'm trying.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got it, man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm monitoring that situation.

[Sean Fennessy]

If you had told me in August that the one way in which sentimental value could be honored at the Globes would be Inge Ipsotta or Lilias, I'd been like, what the fuck?

[Amanda Dobbin]

But, like. But don't you think a little bit maybe the award season issue is that, like, the being has become. Or the robot has become sentient, and, like, now all the things that we kind of talk about and. And get, you know, game out or suggest, like, do actually happen. Do you know what I mean?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. That's what you were saying before.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I guess it's come online.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Pinocchio was the real boy. Yeah. No, 100%. I think you're right. But. Best performance by a male actor in a supporting role. The nominees are Benicio Del Toro, Jacob Elordi, Paul Mescal, Sean Penn, Adam Sandler, and Stellan Skarsgrd.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right now, there's a world in which you could do Stellan Skarsgrd here for sentimental value. Is that what you're doing?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, I chose Benicio.

[Amanda Dobbin]

As did I. I chose Benicio Del Toro.

[Sean Fennessy]

But that doesn't. That logic doesn't really track because this is a way to honor Frankenstein. This is a way to honor J. Kelly. This is a way to honor other movies that aren't going to get a look.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It could be any of those things. But we have seen, like, the quote unquot Golden Globes. He's just sort of copycat. And I think Benicio is, one, just, like, such an incredible performance, just straight up loved it. And two, so pervasive, like, at every single awards ceremony from, you know, up till now, that they'll just be like, yeah, he's another one.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's so interesting because obviously we adore what he did in the movie, and. And PCA and Leo have gone out of their way to talk about the ways in which he kind of brought kind of invention and creativity to that character into the structure of the movie. So I'm not. I don't hope. This doesn't seem like I'm taking away any of his achievements, but it reminds me a little bit of the Renee Zellweger, Judy Garland win, where I'm like, she has one. Why the rush to. I like this performance in this movie a lot more than I like Judy. So I don't want to conflate the two, but it gives me a similar feeling of, like, Benicio did win in this category a long time ago, and he's obviously, like, beloved. Everybody thinks he's just like one of the great actors of our lifetime and he's totally worthy of two. I'm just kind of like, talking through an idea here. But it is interesting that someone like Stellan Skarsgard, who has also got this huge body of work, who's obviously very good in that film, you can make the case that he's the lead of that movie is, like, not really even contending, it seems like, anymore. Or maybe that's one of those, like, tricks of the race right now that we're not seeing. Maybe he's stronger than we realize.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He could be up there on Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised. Okay, I guess I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be like, what?

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, you don't hold against the kind of, like, thought process I was just going through there with Benicio, right? Like, I'm, I don't want to, like.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, I, I do, I, I, I think that we have been trained watching these for so long to think in the, in the parlance and the ideology of the awards, which is, like, now we gotta give someone out for this one and it's their time and it's all that stuff. And giving Benicio this Oscar would be. Let's just give an Oscar to the best supporting performance. Like, which I think is good. Let's give an Oscar to the good thing. But we're not used to that. That's not how we've been brought up.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're right. It's, that's well put. And that is really jarring to me that we're in this new time. Best Screenplay Motion Picture. The nominees are Paul Thomas Anderson, Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safdie. Ryan Coogler. Jafar Panahi, Askil Vogt and Joachim Trier. Chloe Zhao, Maggie o'. Farrell.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I have four different movies written here with double question marks.

[Sean Fennessy]

There are five nominees there six nominees.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I, I don't think it's going to go to Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safdie, though. I absolutely love that movie. Josh was lovely on the podcast, by the way. I finally got to listen to it, the man and I, I don't think that it's going to Chloe Zhao and Maggie o' Farrell for Hamnet.

[Sean Fennessy]

Nor do I, which is a screenplay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think less of the other four you could game. You could argue for all of them.

[Sean Fennessy]

Plausible.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Last year, Conclave won in this category and the year before that, Anatomy of a Fall won in this category. So. And we really only had pretty good screenplays, honestly, two great screenplays and two films that were nominated for best picture but didn't win one did go on to a screenplay Oscar night and maybe we'll fall on.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And did Conclave win as well?

[Sean Fennessy]

Conclave did as well, yeah. They both went on Peter Straughan, so.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I guess in that case.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, that's a good. Those are good shouts then.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So what do we think is winning here? To me, that's, I think sinners is winning.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I do as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I, I think sinners in one battle are winning at the Academy Awards. And so if I feel that way, at least right now.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

You got to make a choice between those two.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And I think they're probably going to go sinners here and, and PTA bigger.

[Sean Fennessy]

I, I, I agree.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. So I, I go.

[Sean Fennessy]

I chose Cooper. So you're choosing cooler as well. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Best performance by a female actor in a drama. This is an interesting category and I like it. I like the nominees here. This is the best thing the Golden Globes has done this year. The nominees are Jesse Buckley for Hamnet, Jennifer Lawrence for Die My Love, Renata Renzvi for Sentimental Value, Julia Roberts for After the Hunt, Tessa Thompson for Hedda and Ava Victor for Sorry Baby. Now, this is what I want award shows to be, which is like, absolutely. Jesse Buckley, Renata Rensvie, no doubt.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

We've been talking about them for months. They are among the best performances of the year. Two really exciting young actors kind of rising. Jennifer Lawrence, big star. Julia Roberts, big star from a different generation.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Also fantastic performances.

[Sean Fennessy]

No doubt. I think they're both worthy. Tessa Thompson, someone who's like kind of in that honorable mention category throughout this race. So I like this movie. Getting a little bit of shine and she's a really good actor. And Ava Victor, this was probably the biggest surprise of the Golden Globe nominations. It's interesting that it's happening in a category where I'm like, there's no competition here.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And that's maybe that's kind of the point.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. So you can get a little creative.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And you also have, you don't have any, you have a few extra Spots. Because some of the surefire nominees are over in comedy, musical.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exactly. So maybe my question is, should there actually be drama and comedy and musical delineations at the Academy Awards?

[Amanda Dobbin]

We need more. We need more categories.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And we need more like, above the line categories, too. Or just like, quote, unquote recognizable, you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Know, to the layperson, creative people. Some were in front of the camera, some who are behind.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We should show all of the awards. But it. Yeah, we just.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't realize the critics choice was like, giving awards out during the commercials. What the hell is that?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

All right, Jesse Buckley. I assume we're united on that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Best performance by a male actor in a drama. Another very interesting category. The nominees are Joel Edgerton for Train Dreams. Oscar Isaac for Frankenstein. Dwayne Johnson for the Smashing Machine. Michael B. Jordan for Sinners. Wagner Mora for the Secret Agent. And Jeremy Allen White in Springsteen Deliver Me from Nowhere, which of course was Paul Schrader's favorite film of 2025.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What is it the basis of philosophy. What's the movie called?

[Sean Fennessy]

The Basics of Philosophy, which is the new name of this podcast.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm going Wagner Mora here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I want Michael B. Jordan.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It could happen and it would be great.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. I mean, Fernanda Porter, Dwayne Johnson.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What if it's Oscar Isaac?

[Sean Fennessy]

I hope that doesn't happen. That's. That's a performance. I do not. I do as well. That's not a performance. I enjoyed. I. Interesting race.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We'll see.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're really on the Wagner Moore train. You really think this is, like, very powerful?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think it's happening. You could be right once, like, as we have said many times, Brazil. Right. And then, like, there's.

[Sean Fennessy]

There are some Brazilian voters in the Golden Globes, but It's not like 10,000 Brazilians vote on the Globes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

If Fernando Torres won last year, I don't know. You just gotta. Well, you gotta know where you are.

[Sean Fennessy]

Watch this space. I guess so actually, watch this space at 4:30pm we were supposed to do that. Yeah, 7:30pm ET on Instagram. We're gonna go live right before the Golden Globes chitchat takes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Hold on. I'm looking up our Instagram handle at the big pickpod. Chris Ryan is so good at this. He has everything memorized. He does it right at the beginning. The email address in the fucking email.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, he's looking at emails from listeners.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I did that once and it was a wonderful experience. And then I saw a lot of, like, un you know, unsolicited opinions and essays and it's like, I don't, I don't have time for that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Couldn't be me. But we will be going live on Instagram and you go live every morning, right?

[Amanda Dobbin]

6Am I have thought about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, Yasi, wake up with Amanda.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yassi Salak goes live from time to time.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've seen it happen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I've thought about joining in from time to time.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like in a FaceTime situation or like going to her house.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, There is a feature where if you are friends with a person. Yeah. You can join the live real jump scares.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe we should have Yasi on the Golden Globes live. I would love that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I remember she desperately wanted to participate when I was dressed as the Papal.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's the thing. I don't know if she's going to be in our time zone in any way, shape or form. Yassi, if you are listening, come home.

[Sean Fennessy]

Where is she?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I miss you. She's in London, so that's fine. And I think she's having a great time.

[Sean Fennessy]

And it's snow streets want Yassi back on the pod. What movie is Yossi going to come and talk about on the pod?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, she's not going to be back in time for A Testament of Ann Lee which we saw together. We went to the beach and then we saw A Testament of Ann Lee. It was a beautiful evening.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Talk about ecstatic devotion to hanging out and not doing your job. Best performance by a. Wait, you picked Wagner? Mora.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Best performance by a female actor, musical or comedy. Nominees are Rose Byrne for if I had Legs, I'd kick you. Cynthia Erivo for Wicked for Good. Kate Hudson for Song Sung Blue, Chase Infinity for One battle after Another. Amanda Seyfried for the Testament of Anne Lee and Emma Stone for Begonia. Emma Stone. Bit of an afterthought.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Mm.

[Sean Fennessy]

Two time Academy Award winner.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Biggest star in Hollywood and maybe she's starting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She wasn't campaigning. You know, she hasn't really been out on the trail.

[Sean Fennessy]

She wasn't at the Critics Choice Awards.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's right. But I think she, she's in the also in the Debbie magazine performances issue and she, she clarified that neither she nor Jennifer Lawrence will be playing Miss Piggy. Miss Piggy will be playing Miss Piggy. So.

[Sean Fennessy]

And does that mean Frank Oz will be playing Miss Piggy?

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know, she didn't say that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. But Frank Oz is on in years, a legend, one of my favorite people. But.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And you can call another of your favorite people, Emma Stone. And ask her about this. I just.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm reading Emma Stone and Frank Oz talking. I would give me. Like, I go into cardiac arrest. That's. That is a pod. I would listen to two goats.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We're learning a lot about you today.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm a normal man. I love the Muppets.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I love redheads.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Muppet Christmas Carol didn't really take. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's an L for Knox.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's okay. He loves Star wars and whispering Avatar Fire and Ash to me. Just. He learned the title. He's very scared of Avatar. Fire and ash.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He's never seen it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just like all the other films that are being released around Christmas time. Terrified of his box office power.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I picked Roseburn.

[Sean Fennessy]

I wrote Emma Stone.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, sure, she's super famous.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. I don't really feel like there's a lot of discipline in this category here.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You could see Kate Hudson because she sings.

[Sean Fennessy]

Absolutely. Possible. Beloved member of the Hollywood community. Probably campaigns quite well with the Globes organization.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Did you know about Kate Hudson's New Year's Eve party?

[Sean Fennessy]

No.

[Amanda Dobbin]

In Aspen.

[Sean Fennessy]

Were you there?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, I wasn't. Because I. Enough with Aspen. You can't.

[Sean Fennessy]

Enough with Aspen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've not been.

[Amanda Dobbin]

There is so much celebrity content. So the two locuses of celebrity content over the holidays. Oh, I'm sorry. Like, you look at the Knicks and this is what I will get. But you're like, excuse me, it's relevant. It's German.

[Sean Fennessy]

But I've been to a Knicks game. Like you've not been to Aspen. And you're like, enough with Aspen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But listen, Kate Hudson was an Aspen. Leo was in St. Bart's. None of the Knicks are nominated here today. So what I'm talking about, the Knicks.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are in a fucking tailspin.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is those.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are four in a row Terrible. I don't know. The defense is falling apart.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. I. Kate Hudson hosts a New Year's party, New Year's Eve party in Aspen. And they like. There's a lot of drumming and there's a bonfire and all sorts of stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

Drumming?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. That's what. That's what she explained in a bonfire. So would you be interested in that? You like mountains?

[Sean Fennessy]

I do like the mountains quite a bit. I would love to go to Aspen. I'm nothing against Aspen. Not really a bonfire guy. I'm not 18.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And that's something cool that you do. And you light some shit on fire. I just run around and drink. Natty. Light the.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Like the Logistics of it. I just. Where are you supposed to sit? You know, because you're too close, and then your face is just on fire. You're too far away. You're freezing cold. You can't see anything. Like, I just.

[Sean Fennessy]

Hard to believe you didn't get invited to this party, given all your bonfire ethics. Okay, so Emma Stone is my pick and Rose Byrne is your pick. And it'll probably be Kate Hudson who wins best performance by a male actor, musical or comedy. Nominees are Timothee Chalamet for Marty Supreme, George Clooney for J. Kelly, Leonardo DiCaprio for one battle after Another, Ethan Hawke for Blue Moon, Lee Byung Hun for no other Choice. Jesse Plemons for Begonia, a name we have not been uttering very much these days. Who do you think is winning?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I wrote down Chalamet.

[Sean Fennessy]

I wrote down Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, well, we'll find out.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've chosen three acting winners from one battle.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You have to stay in the country until Sunday.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's not listening to the show.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know, I learned his Houston's order over the break. That's another thing I learned.

[Sean Fennessy]

What?

[Amanda Dobbin]

It was posted on Deuxmoi. Can you guess? His Houston orders.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, well, then it's verified. If it's posted on Deuxmoi. What the fuck?

[Amanda Dobbin]

They're at South Beverly Grill. This is. It's honestly the most psychotic thing I've ever heard. They ordered the artichokes. Like a, you know, a seasonal Houston. Who's the team? Leonardo DiCaprio and Vittorio Ceretti.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. And the administrators of Domo all sitting together.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, the tipster, they ordered the artichokes and took them to go. Did not touch them.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is not authorized content. Like, we are owned by a global corporation. You can't just be like, this happened. You. What you meant to say was you read on the Internet that a tipster may have erroneously shared what could or could not be the South Beverly Grill order.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All right, Mr. You know, suddenly your legal ethics.

[Sean Fennessy]

Come on. No. Anyway, a man's order at a restaurant is sacred.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Artichokes to go is like, on the level of you being like, I turn on the Begonia soundtrack.

[Sean Fennessy]

Whatever.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Like, why are you taking a hot artichoke to go?

[Sean Fennessy]

I kind of want to just put it on right now and just vibe out for the next 10 minutes before we make the final two picks. I don't. I have no idea what's going to win. Emma Stone and Leo is like, a really weird picks for me, but I just feel like I'm just trying to make it interesting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Listen, I went normie on these. You went interesting. You went normally on other ones. It's fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

What if Jesse Plemons gets, gets up there and he's like, I, wonderful.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Then we get a reaction shot to Kiki.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know who would get knocked out of the Oscar race?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Who?

[Sean Fennessy]

Probably Ethan Hawke.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That would be sad.

[Sean Fennessy]

So, I don't know. Interesting race. Best director.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Paul Thomas Anderson, Ryan Coogler, Guillermo del Toro, Jafar Panahi, Joachim Trier and Chloe Zhao.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think I have Paul Thomas Anderson here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do too.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I mean I, I think it's undeniable. I mean it could be Panahi, you never know. Like Guillermo del Toro could be up there. It could be Coogler. I don't think that it'll be Trier, but maybe you could see it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think Trier and Zhao are not in. I agree. The other four are all in play.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But I'm going with Paul Thomas Anderson.

[Sean Fennessy]

How do you think he's going to feel about having to give 19 speeches in the next three months? It doesn't seem like something he truly loves.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I hope that he'll spend some time with people who give him confidence and I don't know, then go write some really weird ass movies about his feelings.

[Sean Fennessy]

Can I tell you what I would do if I was him?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I would bring a combination TV and VCR up to the stage and I would pop in the vcr, the VHS copy of Boogie Nights. And it would be queued up to the scene where Dirk Diggler accepts the Adult Film Star Awards. And I would just play that and then I would walk off stage.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I would do that at every award show.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, so is it like on one of those little roller carts that we had in elementary school?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah, they roll it out, but it's got to be vhs.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is it a combo tv, vcr?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah. It's all one. It's all one machine.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Beautiful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean you could probably get like, you know, one of those like straps that they put on at Target for diapers and stuff and just like carry it that way, you know, you don't even need a car.

[Sean Fennessy]

More heavy duty one than that, right?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure, yeah. It wouldn't be tape, but you could get.

[Sean Fennessy]

He should just wear a backpack. Just put in a backpack, get on stage, unzip his backpack, pull out the tv, vcr.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That'd be good. That would not be at all weird.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do miss. You know what I miss? I'm feeling loose. I just miss the 90s.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yet you won't let me talk about artichokes.

[Sean Fennessy]

You've got plenty of time on artichokes in the 90s when the beastie Boys were like, we're sending up some guy in a, you know, Teutonic yodeling outfit to accept our award. Yeah, that was fucking great.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, I too, miss the Beastie Boys. It is one of the major reasons that I loved Marty supreme so much.

[Sean Fennessy]

But just in general, just that sense of not being so stuffed shirt about everything. Fucking around a little bit. It's why I liked that Timmy speech last year. He was just like, fuck it, I'm Steve Jobs. That was very funny. Okay. Best Motion Picture Drama, Frankenstein, Hamnet. It was just an accident. Secret Agent, Sentimental Value and Sinners.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I guess I'm gonna do what I said I was gonna do and do. It was just an accident.

[Sean Fennessy]

Bold.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It is bold. But it's nominated in best Motion Picture Drama, best director, best Screenplay, and international feature.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Like, it's everywhere. It needs to be. So. And they. And if they. They do. Sinners. And I think you're gonna pick sinners. And I think that's right. And that's what I would vote for.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. I could be wrong, but what if I'm right?

[Sean Fennessy]

It's one way to go through life. I picked sinners. I think it'll be sinners.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think this will confirm that the race will be sinners versus one battle.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It'll be interesting because they're from the same studio and we can talk about musical or comedy right now. So then we can kind of cap with that quick discussion. So for musical or comedy, Blue Moon, Begonia. Marty Supreme. No other choice. Nouvelle Vague. One battle after another.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

One battle.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Correct.

[Sean Fennessy]

Would be very surprising if One battle after Another did not win here. If it doesn't win, all bets are off. Because of the point that you're making where it's just like this is on tv.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

People are going to see this. And if it doesn't win, it will be the first surprising thing, truly surprising thing that has happened in this stretch run. I don't. I don't think it's likely.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't think that's likely.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't even really know what would win. It feels like it's head and shoulders above all the other contenders. I guess Marty supreme is closest.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe the freaks out there push for Begonia. We. We didn't have Begonia on our last top 10.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. I. The Amount of begonia on this list was, I think, a surprise to all of us. And there was almost no begonia on any of the short lists.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very true.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So it's very true.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's an interesting one. I know there was a lot of Surrats. We put Sarat on there. Yeah. Srat. Getting Best Picture would be nuts. But you never know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You don't.

[Sean Fennessy]

You never know. One Battle versus Sinners versus Hamnet. Still the top three. Is Hamnet competing? Hamnet is not a critics movie, but it is an industry movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is Hamnet going to have a bigger night than we realize?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, where would it win? It would. I think it will win in Best Actress. Do you? I don't think it's going to win Adapted screenplay over pta.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't think so either, but who knows?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, if it does, then, like, you know. Oh, do you think. What else would it win? I don't. I think Trauma. Oh, you mean on, you know, I was just gaming out the Oscars.

[Sean Fennessy]

Paul Mescal, maybe. Listen, I'm just counterfactual.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The world is full of possibilities. We've explored some of them in our predictions.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just trying to keep my energy up.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What I have written down here at the bottom of all of this is no Frankenstein and 12 question marks. So it just seems weird to me.

[Sean Fennessy]

That the no Frankenstein wins. Yeah, I mean, they don't really do a ton of below the line stuff here at the Golden Globes. And that's really where it's going to dominate in production design, in costume design, in hair and makeup, maybe in visual effects. Like, those are the places where it's really going to show up.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's there for score and it could win, as you said, Despot could win.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. But it's just. It was nominated in supporting actor, best actor, drama director, and best picture drama. So I don't know. And it just feels like a Globes.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're right. It'll probably sweep.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm just. I'm saying. I just. It feels like a Golden Globes thing.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a good point. You know, no other choice has three Golden Globe nominations, which is very cool. It's also going more wide this Friday. I don't know how wide it's going. It had a very limited release on Christmas. I hope it's going into a lot of theaters. It's a little hard to say because it's a very entertaining movie. It's not really funny. This isn't a stuffy awards movie. And in fact, one of the reasons Why I think it's maybe not going to do as well at the awards shows is because it's black humor. It's very violent and elaborate. Let's talk a little bit about it. So it's directed by Park Chan wook. He's got three co writers on the film. Lee Kyung Mee, Don McKellar, who he's been working with quite a bit in the last few years, and Lee Ja Hae. It's based on the novel the Axe by Donald Westlake. There actually has been another adaptation of this novel that Costa Gavras made about 25 years ago. I've never seen it. I'm fascinated. Two seat. It was hard to track down. I tried to track it down last night. The stars of this movie are Lee Byun Hun Son, Ye Jin, Park Hee Sun, Lee Seung Min. Abruptly laid off after 25 years at the same company. A desperate man goes to extreme lengths to eliminate the competition for the job that he wants. Now, I know you first saw this movie I did at the Venice Film Festival and you revisited it last night. What'd you think?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, this is just an excellent. Everything about it is so well done that you're just kind of like, I can't believe how good this is. And that it's sustained so well over two and a half hours of what is like. It is comedy. It is very, very hard to hit this tone, this consistently, not to mention all of, like, the, you know, production design and the just like the shots, the beautiful shots, you know, everything that is done so beautifully within it. But there is a very specific understanding of the, like, the attitude that this movie has about the world and the character in it that is consistent in a way that's like, pretty amazing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I agree. It's such a tic tac toe movie for me. I loved it. I've talked about it a couple times already on the show because it is both of those things. And over the years, if you read interviews with park and if you read reviews of his work, Hitchcock comes up over and over again. And I think even when we talked about the handmaiden on 25 for 25, we were like, if they would have let Hitchcock get his kink out in the world, like, this is kind of what he would have done. And this movie is another continuation of that. And like Lee Byun Hun is in a Jimmy Stewart part in this movie. And this really fine grained combination of scary and violent and extremely strongly framed social commentary up against really funny sense attitude is the word you used, and I like that word a lot. It's kind of like everyone's a fucking idiot. We're all kind of screwed. These are terrible systems that we've created for ourselves, and we're all kind of trapped. There's these, like, vagaries that get us through the day. And we've tricked ourselves into thinking, like, oh, if I have the perfect nuclear family and if I have the perfect house, I'll be really happy. But it can all be taken away from us so quickly. And then what do we do when that thing is taken away from us but kind of constantly played where the lead of the film is simultaneously sympathetic and a buffoon. That's also really hard to do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And we talked about this a little bit with Bob Ferguson, a little bit with Marty Mauser, the lead character, being like, is this guy good or bad? Or how much do I like spending time with him?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is the film rooting for him? And am I supposed to be rooting for him? And this is, like, a very interesting twist on that. I don't think that this film is rooting for anyone.

[Sean Fennessy]

No.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And sort of rooting, like, for all of us in the sense that, oh, we live, you know, in this nightmare that we've created. I saw this movie maybe a day after I saw Begonia at the Venice Film Festival. And I thought that they were a very interesting double header, which there. Because they are both about men of slightly different ages and certainly, like, different sociological settings, but men who have been cast out of the world and, like, the social system by, like, basically, you know, like, Corp. The global corporation, and are realizing that they're upon. Have, like. Are realizing that they've lost their sense of place and are kind of losing it in the way that they respond to it. Now, who's right and who's wrong and what's real and what's not, and who's supposed to. Who's the hero and who's the villain? Kind of gets turned on their heads in different ways. And one of them is a kind of like a gotcha thriller. And this is no Other Choice is sort of a thriller, but it is more like a man on a mission. And then ultimately, like, what the mission is. The last shot of no Other Choice is as depressing in its own way as the coda of Begonia is in its way as well of. And it's sort of like, you got. These men were, like, validated almost. And then, like, you get what you wish for.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, Val. Right. But alone, you know, like a right but defeated, you know, like. And it was sort of like, we're all defeated. It's a really good comparison. And I do think there's something very spartan about Begonia. Like, it's a very stripped down movie. And no other choice is the opposite. No other choice is so ornate and elaborate and, like, honestly, a little bit confusing at times. And it was very helpful to see it a second time, just to kind of understand the mechanics of the quote, unquote kills. So just, I mean, we'll talk, we'll spoil the movie a little bit because I spoiled it a little bit with park two. And we talked. But after he's laid off, he tries to get another job. They have this big. We see him in this family life early in the film and he's very happy. He's barbecuing, celebrating with his family.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He got some eel from the company.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got some eel, yes. He's been able to touch, like, upper middle class lifestyle. Right. That's sort of what the movie is showing. It's like, once you reach this status and what happens when it gets taken away from you and what does it mean and how do you account for the loss? And so.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And what did that. What was that status in the first place?

[Sean Fennessy]

Right. It's ultimately fairly meager, but at the time you think you're on top of the world. And this is a very common thing that is in the movies this year. All throughout. It's like, it's in one battle. It's in Mark Kerr and the Smashing Machine. You know, it's in a lot of these men who are like, I've reached a certain level of achievement in my professional life and in my personal life. And I now am like, king of the world. I'm like, master of my domain. And then one guy checks one spreadsheet on one laptop at the company you work at, and you're out. And then you have to figure out where to go. The satire is very broad in the movie, but the construction of the story is so elaborate that I think it kind of overwhelms the simplicity of Corporation Bad. Like, we know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

So he figures out after working this basically physical labor job in a giant department store that he's got to find his way back into the world of paper. He worked in a paper company.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. Which is also a perfect metaphor that starts from the very first scene.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. That's like something from the earth that is made tactile by human hands, but that is also going out of fashion in the way that we experience the world. In this world of screenshots, that's all in the Westlake book. It's in the Costa Gabra movie as well. It's a paper company that he works for. And he realizes that there's only so many jobs because of all this consolidation. His company that laid him off was acquired by an American company. This globalization is affecting everybody. This is a movie that originally park wanted to make in America, but he couldn't really get it going, and so he had to make it in his native Korea. And he decides he needs to start eliminating potential contenders for the very few open positions in the job, which is such a funny idea. But he's a regular middle class guy. He's not. He has a greenhouse and he has some utility with his hands, but he doesn't really know what he's doing. And so he goes through these series of kills, kind of like bumbling his way through every single murder. But he is successful. Like, he does kind of pull it off. And so to your point about, like, is this guy good, is he bad, is he successful, Is he not successful? It's like, he does kind of do what needs to be done in this movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And he does also, I mean, like.

[Sean Fennessy]

What he believes needs to be done.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What he believes or what he set up for himself. And there is in almost every, like, in every kill scene, there is like, a moment where he's like, wait, what am I actually doing? And is this really, really gonna happen?

[Sean Fennessy]

Right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And the mania kind of catches, like, on, and he becomes more convinced of his own plan as it goes on. But I hadn't realized until my rewatch. There's a, like, the still that's being used in the movie, which is of the pot. Yeah, the pot being held up is actually. He chickens out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And he doesn't. That is not actually the first kill. That is sort of where the idea, or part of the idea comes from. But he's holding up a plant that he then uses, like, to start a fake company to trap everyone. So it is. It's the beginning of the, like, the. The illusion as much as it is of this. Like, I'm gonna, like, kill people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. And it's a perfect little thing, too. Right? It's like the whole movie is all about a person who cares for trees and living things. There's a lot of time spent with him caring for a bonsai tree and showing the kind of nature in which you have to kind of like, bend and contort the bonsai to take care of it and to allow it to grow. Which is obviously a very latent metaphor for the way that we have to kind of like bend ourselves around the system so that we can survive inside of the system. And then the idea of a tree. Paper is made from trees being used as this inspiration point for this plan where he sets up a job at a paper company with a catalog, all from paper and trees, to bring in these three men who are effectively middle managers like he was at paper companies and are out of work. At least two of them are out of work. And he needs to get rid of these guys so that a job can open up, so that he can fill in that spot. These other men are more qualified than he is, too. Which is a nice testimony to the ends that this world drives us to. Where it's like I'm in desperate competition with this other loser guy who lives one town over. Because that's just the nature of an aggressive capitalist system. So you've got all of that stuff, which is very fun and rich and often very funny. And you've also got this family drama about a guy who's lost his sense of masculinity because he's lost his job. And he feels like his wife, who's beautiful and she has to go to work to back Phil for the lack of income in the home. And she's working for a hot dentist as a dental hygienist and a dental assistant. And he's worried about that she's cheating on him. And then that is also dovetailing with one of the murder potential murder victims who's also being cucked at this time. And this is an elaborate movie with a lot of twists and a lot of ideas.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And he's got huge toothache throughout that he won't get, you know, fixed. Which is. I like. I know is symbolic in Freudian psychology or whatever, but is also relates to the actual dentist. And then when it is finally, quote, unquote, fixed is somewhat climactic.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's got to do it himself.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. That's the only way through is to just push through. So there's all kinds of fun stuff. And I probably will watch this movie again because it revealed a lot on my second watch. And then the other thing is, while I'm watching it, it's hard to not be overwhelmed by the technique that he's using. Camera angles and camera placement and transitions and wipes. And he's using a lot of superimpositions where he's mapping one image onto another image. So you can see the duality, the mask that people Are wearing the secret truth hiding beneath them. All these very traditional, like what's around.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The corner or what's around the. And that gives you juxtaposition. Juxtaposition of like this house that is an amazing house and you know, so idyllic, but just like seems to be. When you look at it from another direction, it's just like off a random highway and there's like an office park nearby and all sorts of, you know, like the.

[Sean Fennessy]

But this is the house that he grew up in. So he has also idealized it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Exactly.

[Sean Fennessy]

Even though it's like it's a middle class house off a highway. You know, like so many of us. Like I grew up in, you know, like so many people grew up in. But you tend to think that these are these like, like totems of accomplishment. I think that a lot of those visual choices that he makes throughout the movie are really smart. He talked a lot about the selection of the house and why and how they built it. And you know, it's a really interesting and unusual style. Again, like I thought I was asking a good question and he was like, I have a 30 minute answer to you question about a house. You know, he's like, he's really put a tremendous amount of thought.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The house plays a huge role and is also like designed in a way not just to allow for like the certain setup of the shots and you know, where the kids are standing on the stairs as you hear something in the, like, you know, the kitchen or the et cetera, but also like where the tree is outside the window. And the tree obviously has a lot of. Is that a real red pine? I'm gonna be a white pine. I'm sorry, I'm gonna be heartbroken if it's not.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And how the trees also set. But then there are some shots where I'm just like, I can't believe you got the clouds to look like that.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's true. There is CGI in the movie. And I think he uses CGI very artfully as a filmmaker. There was a lot of CGI in Decision to Leave as well. And another movie that I think is really rewarding on a rewatch, much like Decision to Leave, also a great movie about screens. One of the things that's really funny is when he meets, I think, is it Seung Chul, the manager at the paper company, and then he leaves and he realizes that he's also this kind of rival manager, is also an influencer and he's constantly looking at his social Media. And the movie really effectively renders that sense of, like, jealousy aspiration, the kind of, like, ugliness of performing for social media. But also the, like, this is getting this guy somewhere, and I don't know how to do this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

All unspoken. None of it is really communicated. We just watch him watching another guy. Just a good idea.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know, even the way that he's watching it. In that particular scene, he's lying on the couch and holding the phone, like, directly above his head, which is not.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just like, Bob Ferguson.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, that's right. Yeah. But it is. But, you know, and allows, like, a lot of different setups. It's cinematically interesting, which, you know, most people would just have their phone up, like, to their face.

[Sean Fennessy]

He does have that when he's in the bar. When he's in the bar and he's kind of discovering him talking about, like, paper and trees and things like that. The other thing I really liked was a really funny Netflix joke in the movie where they're talking about, like, what they have to cut out of their budget. And in the background, you can hear the Ta dum hit when the kids are firing it up. And there was like. The movie is very much about what happens when you go from upper middle class to middle class to lower middle class and the panic that sets in, which is a very. I mean, this is something that has been happening in America for the last 25 years. We've kind of hollowed out a whole class of people who felt like they were in very stabilized, industrialized spaces. And whether those jobs have been moved overseas or have been moved into AI assisted robotics, which is really what this film is ultimately focused on, that this is a very relatable movie. It's an absurd arch Hitchcockian thriller, but its core idea is very up with people. And yet it also has a real Coen brothers, like, everybody's a moron energy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Tasty stew.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We didn't mention ballroom dancing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, God.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Which also sets up a whole. I mean, there is a lot of. The young daughter is a cellist, and that's, like the. The emotional, like, very sad part about it. She's a very gifted cellist.

[Sean Fennessy]

Neurodivergent, it seems.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. She only speaks in, you know, repeating other people's words, and they have to give the dogs away, which, like, I'm not a dog person, but that's really sad, brutal. And so. But so there's a cello plot line. There is a whole thing about stolen phones. Speaking of screens.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And then just, you Know some really baroque and gross deaths or what we do with bodies after death.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's one kill in particular where he folds up a cadaver. That is fucking crazy. That is great. There's just great imagery and obviously is a callback to the bonsai bending and you know, you're meant to see. And the recognition of his son through the greenhouse in the same way that he saw him through the greenhouse early in the film. A lot of echoes throughout the movie. A lot of repeating and recurring images. Lee Byun Hun. I want to talk about him quickly. Really interesting actor. He's probably best known for these kind of like intense Korean thrillers. Really charismatic and handsome guy. He's older than I thought he was. He's 55. He's been around for a while. The last time he worked with park was in Park's first film, Joint Security Area. So this is a reunion for them. And he has been in a bunch of American movies and he's always been used in this really, like, po faced, like, exoticized Asian assassin kind of way. He was Storm shadow in the G.I. joe movies. He was in the Magnificent Seven remake, which is a big CR movie. But in this movie, he really plays this physical comedy. It's almost like a Jim Carrey part.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. He's twisting his face a lot.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, Contortion. Yeah. I really, really like him. And then I mentioned earlier in the episode, Son Yi Jin, who plays his wife, who is dynamite in this movie where she's secretly the one running the family. She probably could have saved his job if he had included her more in the execution of his career. One of the funnier scenes in the movie is when he's early on preparing his I'm getting axed speech to his new American boss. And he's just being cheered on by four other guys who are about to get fired. I'm in front of the logs and very quickly, the American, when he gets one second with him is like, there was no other choice and he gets in a car and leaves. But she is simultaneously the most decent but the craftiest. And when the moment arrives where she needs to use her wiles to get the family to safety, without her, that he would not be safe despite all this insane shit that he does. The kills.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, my favorite is, I guess.

[Sean Fennessy]

The first, because he doesn't really do it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He doesn't really do it, but really just because of the music. Absolutely blaring.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I did not know this. Park said this is one of the most popular songs in Korean music history.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I Had no idea.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's like playing My Heart Will Go on or something.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, that's. I mean, that's even funnier. But I didn't. It's Italian. Is it? No, it's not.

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought it was a Korean.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is it in Korean?

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, Jack, I don't know if you can help fact check that one for us.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think I saw it in Italy, so I was like, oh, are you doing. And I think the Italian subtitles came on to explain what it was saying. And I was like, oh, is this an Italian?

[Sean Fennessy]

Gotcha.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Anyway, I got it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's a Korean title. I think it's a Korean pop title.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That would make more sense. Anyway, it was great. I mean, also seems like a banger to me. I understand why it's My Heart Will Go on in Korea.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe not the most perfect comp I've.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Ever met, but okay, whatever.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe it's, dude, looks like a lady, you know, in Southern Korea. I'm not actually sure I like that one the best, too. Although I do think that entire stretch where he goes to Central's house and they drink and the tooth and then the very gross scheme to make it seem as though he's choked on his own vomit is just like. It's pretty out there, man. Like, you got to remember, this is the guy who made Oldboy, you know, And I think he's. He started. He's become like world cinema master and making celebrated U.S. streaming services films or television shows. But he's a freak.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's a big time freak.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And he's into some really kinky, weird shit. And he is really good at rendering it on screen. Just confirming that song is Korean. Thank you. Okay, the ending. Yeah, I mean, so he gets away with it for a variety of reasons, but one of the reasons is that the first victim's wife, who is cucking him, kind of sort of takes the fall in some ways. Her husband takes the fall for a series of events. And he gets the job. He gets a job. And when he gets to the job, he realizes he no longer really has any colleagues, that he's just managing an AI operated station and his trusty wooden stick that allows him to check the virility of the paper is no longer necessary because there are tools that do that. And then is the final shot that you're referring to in the forest with the lumber and the.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, well, first off, it's him celebrating alone in the robot warehouse, and he's the only person there. And It's a wide shot and he's like almost dancing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And then it cuts to the robot cutting down trees while you get the credits.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I asked park about that too, and I was just like, did you shoot that? Like, where did that come from? He's like, that's stock footage. So he ended his film on stock footage. But it's the most chilling footage you've ever seen in your life.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's so messed up.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's like a giant machine that is controlled by robots cutting down trees in the natural world. And that's just what. That's where we're at.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. That's bad.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's not good.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Bad news. I learned a lot more about logging this year than I thought that I would.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Train Dreams.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

No other choice. What else?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, those two. But that's two more movies about logging than I thought I would experience and engage with.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you end up seeing the Ken Kesey Sometimes a great notion movie that Paul Newman directed?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't think so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. I think it was also about logging.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. But I don't think that was on my watch list last year.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

In fact, I think you tried to be like, ooh, train dreams again, logging. And I don't know if Train Dreams is really about logging.

[Sean Fennessy]

Then what happened in your top five of the movies of the year.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's right. But I'm just saying I don't know if I would have led with the logging.

[Sean Fennessy]

Any other thoughts on Park?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, dynamite movie. Really good.

[Sean Fennessy]

Really good. Let's go to my conversation with Park Chan Wook, Director Park Chan Wook, and his interpreter, Ji Won Lee. Very happy to have you both here to talk about this film. I wanted to start by hearing what led you to reading Donald Westlake's the Axe. What led you to that book in the first place? Point Blank.

[Park Chan Wook]

I'm a die hard fan of the film Point Blank starring Lee Marvin. And as soon as I heard that this writer who wrote the original novel for the film, although for Point Blank, used a different pen name, as soon as I heard that he had other works that he had written, I immediately looked for that novel.

[Sean Fennessy]

I know the film started out as a potential American adaptation and shifted to South Korea. So what specifically needed to change by shifting it to a different country?

[Park Chan Wook]

I don't think there are any fundamental changes, but there are more detailed differences between the two versions. So, for instance, the dance party scene was initially US history themed. This was not something that was in the novel. We decided to include this in the adaptation process. So there were people dressed up as US Historical figures like Abraham Lincoln and Pocahontas, which was included in the film, was one of those characters initially. And we couldn't keep that same theme in the Korean version of the film. So we had to give that up, which I was very sad about. That was something we had to take out as we changed this into a Korean film. As for things that we added, it was the element of bonsai. And this was the extension of Mansu's love and hobby for plants. So he's not just working in his garden, he's also stuck in his greenhouse, working with his bonsai. Production design. At the start of the idea was initially a suggestion from a production designer about using bonsai as a prop in the greenhouse. And I said I liked the idea. But thinking further upon it, I realized that we could use this more than just decor. We could use it cinematically. So I continued to develop this idea further. And it was featured in scenes where Ban Su was overcome with jealousy. There's the moment when he breaks the branch of the bonsai, or for this moment, when he's taking care of his victim's body, and instead of using a chainsaw to take care of the body, he uses a wire and ties up the body like a bonsai. And of course, the bonsai was also featured in the scene where Mansu's son Si Won is having a nightmare. And he's also included in that little bonsai world as well. And as the meaning and significance of the bonsai expanded, the bonsai became an important tool to show how Mansu thinks of his family as well. Just like in that nightmare scene, Mansu considers his family as this world that he designed and tends, just like how he tends to his bonsai. And of course, there's a beauty in the way that he pours his heart into tending his family and the bonsai. But if you look at it from a darker side, there's that artificial force that he's using to bend the branch of the bonsai to a shape of his liking that's also very similar to how he treats his family as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

He talks in the film too, about how he's built the home and built all of these particular aspects of the home, and that would make it difficult for him to leave the home. I'm curious, how did you find that house? Was it constructed? Did it already exist and what were you looking for in it? Pre production scouting team.

[Park Chan Wook]

I immediately knew that finding that house was going to be a very arduous process. So even before we started pre production, there was location scouting team designated to find the right house. And they immediately started touring the entirety of South Korea to look for the right house. And this structure of the house was something that was often seen back when I was younger, in the early 70s, they used the same blueprint to build that same cookie cutter house all across the country. And this was initiated by the real estate industry. So because Korea was a poorer country at the time, just as economic growth was just beginning to start, the real estate people tried to utilize the envy that people had towards this middle class lifestyle. And this structure of a house became popular under this faux title, the French style house. And this was trying to utilize the Korean's dream and envy to emulate the modern European life lifestyle. As you have seen from the movie, the structure of the house, the architecture style isn't French at all. It was really just a marketing trick to sell this type of houses. And of course that design was a nightmare to architects with refined tastes at the time. And it was all the more pathetic, especially because of the fact that they built that same design all across the country. So today, because that structure of the house is mostly gone, it's very hard to see that style of a house today. It actually feels more interesting to see a style like that, to see those fusion of different cultural architecture styles in one house. So after we found the right house, the production designer and I continued to redesign the existing house. So something that we added was this wavy pattern concrete exterior to the house inspired by the brutalist style. So that made it even more confusing in terms of the cultural architectural style.

[Sean Fennessy]

The film features what feels like a scene from my life where a father is prone on his back watching an influencer video and a young daughter is watching television. When we talked for decision to leave, you talked about the use of cell phones. This film features AI as a component. A character in the film literally says, a phone contains all of a person's life. You're consistently interested in showing the way that this technology invades our life. Why is that important to you. There?

[Park Chan Wook]

In my filmmaking style, I always strived for a more classical style, or to put it more crudely, an old fashioned style. And I believe that is the method that best accurately portrays the story and the characters that I want to portray. So even though my style is old fashioned in portraying the lives of the modern person, especially a modern Korean person, technology is inevitably tied to all of their lives. And I didn't want to turn away from portraying that accurately.

[Sean Fennessy]

You say you use an old fashioned style. But the film feels very maximalist. And where you put the camera, the sound design, the color is very explosive. Even for one of your films. I was thinking of the shot through the boilermaker, the glasses. Why did the movie demand all these gestures?

[Park Chan Wook]

This was my film, right after my previous film Decision to Leave. Of course, I also made the TV series the Sympathizer in between those projects. But in terms of just films, this was my next project after Decision to leave. And I knew that I wanted to try a different style from my previous movie. That's actually a habit of mine, always trying to do something different from what I had just done. So because Decision to Leave had such a minimal style, that's why no other choice ended up looking that way. And since you mentioned color, to discuss color specifically, my goal for the film was to recreate the film look. And just from that statement, you know how old fashioned my taste is. So I've always wondered and had an obsession with that film look. In contrast to that saturated feeling of the digital footage that we see today, I've always believed that film has more grain, it's more foggy and it's less saturated. And to really test that out, we actually set up the same lighting and used the same subject and filmed it with film ones and on digital ones. And then what I actually learned was that film has higher saturation, higher contrast, and felt more intense in general. So in the DI process and in the lens selection, that was the direction that I was striving for. And as for that beer glass moment that you mentioned, it's a very unique camera setup since the camera is rigged right on top of the glass. But it wasn't an attempt to create this cool, never seen before, unique setup just for uniqueness sake. The audience knows the significance of the bombshot, the significance of Mansu drinking in this moment. That's why I wanted each gulp, each moment to feel breathlessly nervous for the audience. And this setup might feel like a modern camera setup to audiences, perhaps, but you can actually find more creative and bold setups in 70s film. I'm guessing that 70s film might feel prehistoric to modern audiences, but you can explore them and see it for yourself.

[Sean Fennessy]

The film becomes a series of one on one encounters with Mansoo and his potential victims. And each time he confronts them, we see that he's not such a skilled assassin. I wanted to hear you talk a little bit about conceiving the oven mitt glove encounter with the blaring music, because it's so striking and so funny. And I wanted to hear you explain how you came up with all of that. Professional.

[Park Chan Wook]

Santa cruz. So the oven mitten moment came from Mansu's attempt to use it as a silencer to kill off the sound of the gunshot. And because he's not a professional assassin, he doesn't have the professional tools to do that. Of course, he got the gun from his father, but he doesn't have anything else. So I think that was the result of him looking around his house, seeing what he has and discovering this idea. So even though it might look foolish or funny to the audience, we can tell that Mansu has actually put in a lot of thought under the circumstances that he's in. So he has the oven mitt, and below the oven mitt, he also has this glove from a Santa Claus costume that he probably bought to entertain his kids. And beneath, underneath that, his hand is wrapped up in a plastic wrap. And he did that because he was scared that when he's too terrified or nervous in the moment, his hands might get too sweaty. So he wanted to make sure that he's not going to let go of the gun and that he'll be able to properly pull the trigger. So that's how much of a desperate preparation went into this moment for Mansu. So even though Mansu is very desperate and well prepared for himself, it might come off as very funny to the audience when they're watching it from afar. And actually, if you watch the movie again, you might be able to find a family picture of Mansu dressed up as a Santa Claus.

[Sean Fennessy]

As someone who's been making films for more than 30 years, how much do you relate to the men in this story who have turned their life over to a vocation that doesn't always love them? Back. Back.

[Park Chan Wook]

That is the very reason why I was able to empathize with the main character of the novel when I was reading it, despite the fact that he works in a completely different industry. And Sijou, one of the victims in the film, actually says this line about how he considers making paper as a form of art.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Goshada.

[Park Chan Wook]

So this job isn't just to make a living. They consider this job as life itself. And Pomo also says this in the dialogue about how he's nothing without this job. So it's not just simple pride for what they do. They consider the job to equate to the sense of self itself. And I think a lot of filmmakers will be able to relate to this. So how Bansu's criminal acts and his moral downfalls, he justifies all of this as acts for his family, that he has no other choice. And I could see how this would come off as ingenuine. And what I'm trying to say through that is Mansu is a man who would have murdered for this job even if he had other options or other jobs that were able to feed his family. The truth is, perhaps he was really chasing food. That sense of achievement that he felt from his paper making job. You can even imagine if he had no wife and no kids, I could still see him as a man who would have done the exact same things.

[Sean Fennessy]

The most chilling image to me is the final sequence with the automated logging machinery. The movie seems to have a strong point of view about AI and I'm curious to hear your perspective on it. And not just in terms of it taking over per se, but whether it could be helpful or harmful in what specific ways in the future for filmmakers. Yeah.

[Park Chan Wook]

My immediate emotional response to that would be fear. And it's not just fear towards how AI is going to dominate our lives. The speed of its technological development is so fast that I think the fear stems from this thought of how it might change our lives even before we realize that it's changed it. And obviously back when the novel was first written, there was no such concept back then. So any scenes involving AI was something that I added in, in the adaptation process. But I think for this film it was certainly helpful to have that AI technology development, Because I added a new element that was different from the original novel, which was that the wife and the son find out about what the main character has been doing.

[Sean Fennessy]

There.

[Park Chan Wook]

Because Mansu says he's doing everything for his family. But it's precisely what he does for his family that affects his soul. It destroys his soul. And when that is known by his family, Mansu becomes an outcast of the family and the family is shattered. So all of this becomes a large paradox. He did it for his family, but it's precisely those acts that destroyed it. And it's just like that. It's very similar to Mansu's association with the AI technology as well. So the film portrays Mansu's journey of how he destroys his human competitors. And this was a very difficult process for him. It took a lot of big determination. And it was a very arduous journey that he had to survive through in order to make it through that journey and find a job that he's desperately wanted for himself. But at the end of that road, he realizes that there's a scarier competitor that he can never win. And he confidently enters this factory. And in this dark factory where the machines are working on their own, he turns on the lights as if to make the statement that the humans will be controlling the factory now. But shortly after his joyful cry, he is encapsulated by the strange feeling. And you can tell that in the moment where he taps on that large paper roll with his stick to sense the density of the paper rol.

[Sean Fennessy]

So.

[Park Chan Wook]

Because if you remember, in the previous interview scene, the interviewers actually told Mansu that that age of using this manual method is over. And at the time, Mansu emphatically agreed. But he still couldn't let go of that old habit. And that's why he brought that stick. He probably brought it from his home. There's actually a moment where we see that stick in the greenhouse as well. So he took in the effort to bring that from his home and to necessarily use it in a factory that doesn't need it anymore. And at the same time, we witness how this robot that's working above his head is doing the same job that he's doing. And Mansu also looks very pitiful as he tries to avoid these vehicles that are transporting the paperwork. And most importantly, in the very last shot of the film, we witness how the lights are beginning to go off one by one. Behind Mansu. Is the lights off system being activated? AI, through the act of turning off the light, is sending a message to Mansu that we don't need you anymore. And the very next scene is when we see the trees getting cut down. We almost considered shooting that ourselves, but we found very good stock footage, so we used that instead. But for the stock footage, there was originally a video of a seat in that heavy equipment and a driver driving that equipment, but we used VFX to erase any traces of humans, almost as if robots are moving on their own. And what the scene is supposed to remind us of is a moment earlier in the film when Mansu is practicing the speech that he wants to tell the American executives. And then he talks about how in America, getting fired is like getting axed. But in Korea, we say, off with your heads when we're getting fired. And then he combines those two phrases and says, getting fired is like using an axe to cut off somebody's head. And this moment is actually a visualization of that speech.

[Sean Fennessy]

Director park, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen. Have you seen any films recently that you really responded to?

[Park Chan Wook]

I haven't finished it. Yet. But I'm currently reading Nabokov's novel called Pale Fire. It's very fanciful, but complex and humorous. It's really a great piece of literary work.

[Sean Fennessy]

Work. Thank you very much. Congrats on the film.

[Park Chan Wook]

Thank you very much.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you to Park Chan Wook. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Remember, 4:30pm Sunday night, PT, 7:30 ET. Amanda is going live on Instagram, maybe with Yossi to talk about the Golden Globes. I'll be there.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The biggest pick pod.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. And if you want to. What do you, what do people want to know? What kind of candy did I buy to eat on Sunday night?

[Amanda Dobbin]

We're going to eat actual food.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Why did we go to New York?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Maybe. Oh, that'll be exciting.

[Sean Fennessy]

Anything else?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. We could do some red carpet cues. It depends on whether we have. Are they doing the red carpet? I mean, like coverage? I assume they will be.

[Sean Fennessy]

Who's. Are they? CBS News?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I think so.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's right. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Beyond the red carpet.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. God, I hope I don't want to deal with that. I forgot that it's on cbs. That's so weird because it was NBC for so long.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. We didn't even talk about Nikki Glaser, one of my goats.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She was very good last year.

[Sean Fennessy]

She was funny last year. Yeah, I like that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So she'll be good again.

[Sean Fennessy]

We'll also talk about the results of the show immediately after the show and that episode will get posted and you'll listen to it and you'll love it. I promise. See you then, Sam.