Guillermo del Toro’s ‘Frankenstein’ and the Best Frankenstein Movies. Plus: Jennifer Lawrence Is Ablaze in ‘Die My Love.’

Summary

The Big Picture — Guillermo del Toro’s ‘Frankenstein’ and the Best Frankenstein Movies. Plus: Jennifer Lawrence Is Ablaze in ‘Die My Love.’

Hosts: Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins
Guest: Rob Mahoney
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Sean, Amanda, and Rob dive into Guillermo del Toro's long-awaited, Netflix-released ‘Frankenstein’ adaptation, dissecting its visual style, narrative choices, and place within both classic and modern Frankenstein storytelling. They also review Lynne Ramsay's hallucinatory and harrowing postpartum drama ‘Die My Love,’ starring Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson, and discuss its honest depiction of motherhood and alienation. Plus, the group touches on industry news (the Michael Jackson biopic, Mona Fastvold’s new film, Miss Piggy movie in development), Frankenstein films through the decades, and this year’s Oscars prospects.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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Industry News & Trailer Reactions (01:43–10:18)

• Antoine Fuqua’s 'Michael' Trailer

  • The hosts mock the sanitized approach of the Michael Jackson biopic.
  • Amanda: “I watched it under duress … this just seems like a real big headache, you know, and we have a job and if we still have this job in April 2026, like, I’ll see it…”
  • Rob: “It looks low rent. It looks like an extension of the Bob Marley into Bruce Springsteen devolution that we’re all going through with this film.” (03:23)
  • Discussion of legal entanglements affecting the script and delayed release, including the possibility the film will be split into parts and lack of willingness to tackle controversial topics.
  • Sean: “There is a polish to the cinematography and production design that almost feels like AI.”

• Mona Fastvold's 'The Testament of Anne Lee'

  • Trailer praise: mysterious, rhythmic, thematically intriguing.
  • Amanda: “It’s appropriately mysterious...and I’m really excited that it got acquired and is gonna be in the mix.” (08:09)
  • Rob: “Anytime you can put Amanda Seyfried in your movie, you should also do that.” (07:49)

• Miss Piggy Movie Development

  • Discuss the irreverent approach, Emma Stone’s Muppet fandom, and viral development tales.
  • Sean: “As a longtime Muppets dork, this is incredible news.” (09:24)

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Guillermo del Toro's 'Frankenstein' Deep Dive

Opening & Cast (10:18–11:25)

• Written/directed by Guillermo del Toro.
• Stars Oscar Isaac (Victor Frankenstein), Jacob Elordi (the Creature), Mia Goth, Charles Dance, Felix Kammerer, Christoph Waltz.
• Classic setup: scientist creates new life—“learning how to be a dad of the undead.” (11:03)

Host Relationships to Frankenstein (11:25–13:23)

• None feel deep affection for “Frankenstein” as a story.
• Rob: “The problem is that many of [the movies] are not very good...the iconography is there, but there’s not a lot of soul there, you know?” (11:54)

General Impressions & Visual Style (13:23–16:56)

• Rob: Liked the movie but didn’t love it. Praises del Toro’s spirit of reimagining.

• Amanda: Finds it visually unappealing—“I do not like the way that it looks visually and that I don’t really care that much about Frankenstein, the story, I find the interpretation of this story a little facile…” (14:53)

• Both Sean and Amanda critical of Netflix-era del Toro’s “flat,” desaturated visuals.

  Notable Quote:

  • Sean: “I don’t hate this movie, but I definitely don’t love it...there’s things I admire about it and things I really like, borderline revile about it.” (15:52)

Thematic Depth & Literalism (16:56–18:46)

• Amanda: Criticizes the lack of nuance—“Brother, you are the monster. You know, I groaned the first time...There’s no nuance, and there’s not a lot of thematic depth…” (16:40)
• Rob: Del Toro often makes archetypes explicit, sometimes at expense of subtlety—“There are three lines in every movie he makes...Did you really have to say that out loud?” (17:47)

Del Toro Repetition & Archetype (18:46–20:14)

• The team note del Toro’s repeated exploration of misunderstood monsters, empathy for outcasts, and the thin line between monster/human.
• Sean: “He keeps going back to that concept over and over again...He just sees himself as the monster...” (19:38)

Pacing, Structure, and Performances (20:14–24:55)

• Split into two uneven parts: “The Creator’s Tale” and “The Creature’s Tale.” The latter, driven by Jacob Elordi’s performance, is more involving and powerful.

• Oscar Isaac’s performance is described as “broad” and lacking emotional subtlety.

• Much of the first half is seen as sluggish and overlong; question of “who says no to this guy?” in career editing at this point.

  Notable Moment:

  • Amanda: “Why didn’t you just make the second half?” (21:07)

Visual Effects, Production Design, & Flatness (24:55–26:03)

• Critiques of CGI: action sequences (e.g., the Arctic prelude) described as underwhelming.
• Costumes praised, especially Mia Goth’s use of red amidst desaturation.
• Rob: “This is so gray…other than Elizabeth’s dresses where they just have her styled to look like a big old bug in a way that I really do like.” (24:34)

What Works: Elordi's Creature & Thematic Shifts (26:03–34:20)

• Rob: Applauds the empathy and depth given to the Creature, contrasting with Victor’s limited motivations.
• Sean: “If you make the monster wholly sympathetic...it kind of drains the juice from the story and it makes it Twilight.” (30:24)
• Practical creature design by Mike Hill (also worked on Hellboy, The Shape of Water) receives high marks.
• Elordi’s performance likened to silent cinema acting: expressive, present, sympathetic.
• They debate the “power level”/immortality of this new Frankenstein’s monster.

Science Corner & Mythos (37:00–41:38)

• Humorous break dissecting the logistics and “science” of Frankenstein’s assembly, electricity, lymphatic systems, and hubris.
• Amanda: “So we learn that there’s some sort of electricity that they gotta plug into the double lymphatic system, which is just above the horizontal heart…” (37:08)

The Ending (39:31–40:57)

• Del Toro pivots to forgiveness over vengeance; the Creature’s journey concludes standing alone in sunlight—fulfilling symbolic life.
• Rob: “If you were burdened with eternal life...the greatest thing you could do would be to forgive the people who have wronged you.” (39:53)
• Sean: “That’s fine. That’s like a little Hallmark for me.” (40:57)

Awards Prospects & Del Toro’s Career Arc (47:59–55:35)

• Oscar chances dissected:

  • Strong below-the-line support (production design, costume, makeup), Best Picture off the strength of industry admiration, but Elordi faces a loaded supporting actor field.
  • Amanda: “Jacob Elordi is pretty good and also has a significant following of, you know, me and many other people.” (49:22)

• Del Toro’s continued work with archetypes and period settings; hosts express wishing for more original work akin to his early films.

  • Rob: “I would also love to see him make something contemporary for the first time in like 20 years… everything is period all the time.” (52:56)

The Best Frankenstein Movies (55:38–60:19)

• Sean presents a rapid rundown:

  • Universal's James Whale originals (Frankenstein, The Bride of Frankenstein)
  • Hammer’s The Curse of Frankenstein
  • Paul Morrissey’s Flesh for Frankenstein
  • Depraved, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein (Branagh/De Niro), and inspired-by films: Edward Scissorhands, Re-Animator, Rocky Horror, Poor Things, X-Files episode "Post-Modern Prometheus", Young Frankenstein, Frankenhooker, Weird Science, Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein, Frankenweenie.

  Rob: "You have to let the monster and Victor be depraved. The best way…is to let the freak flag fly..." (56:51)

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Lynne Ramsay’s ‘Die My Love’ — Raw Motherhood on Screen

Setup & Initial Reaction (60:36–62:27)

• Lawrence and Pattinson play a couple who move from NYC to Montana and experience the harrowing transitions of new parenthood.
• Amanda: “I have a pretty fraught relationship with, like, mom culture…but this spoke to me. This is about…the weird and terrifying experience of postpartum.” (62:13)

The Experience of Postpartum & Film’s Effect (64:07–68:47)

• Rob: “I spent most of this movie wanting to throw up. And I loved it…there’s a part of all of us that is hanging the wallpaper…and then there is the voice at the back of your head that just is telling you to run into the woods and never look back.” (64:07)
• Sean: “It’s very much in the tradition of all of Lynne Ramsey’s movies, which are about these experiences of, like, profound alienation and feeling completely disconnected and unable to really, like, be seen and understood.” (64:59)
• The movie’s impressionistic, dissociative style nails the emotional chaos of postpartum life versus “mommy culture” platitudes.
• Amanda: “It is really, really bizarre. So I loved it. I found myself a little disappointed when it got more literal.” (68:45)

Surrealism, Narrative Structure, and Jennifer Lawrence’s Performance (68:59–74:30)

• The group discusses the film’s struggle to balance experiential, impressionistic storytelling with literal explanations (the hospital sequence).
• Comparison to ‘The Yellow Wallpaper’ — stories about female alienation are hard to make cinematic, but Ramsay pulls it off.
• Sean: “I've not done a 180 on a performer so dramatically…But I do think she has transformed herself into an amazing and fearless actor and she takes parts now…more audacious and bold.” (72:13)
• Amanda: “She is quite literally tits out, but not in a sexual way, in a this is…my body is leaking sort of way. And I loved it.” (73:23)
• Emma Stone’s “Jen’s the cat” quote is brought up as commentary on Lawrence’s unfiltered performance.

Supporting Cast, Husbands, and Parenting Cycles (75:45–78:08)

• Robert Pattinson as the husband—absent but not by choice; the movie isn’t about blaming, but communication voids in intimate partnerships.
• Sean: “It is like a constant obsession of mine…thinking about what my parents have given me and how I'm passing it on to another person.” (77:36)
• The group circles back to Frankenstein’s themes of creation and inheritance.

Awards Prospects for ‘Die My Love’ (80:24–82:26)

• Discusses Jennifer Lawrence’s Oscar chances (unlikely, despite career-best work), and the trend of “mom movies” during the season.
  • Amanda: “I think that Rose Byrne and Jessie Buckley are gonna, like, lead the mom contingent. And I would pick this over Emma Stone in Begonia, but I don’t think voters will.” (81:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Amanda on Frankenstein’s Literalism (16:40):
  “Brother, you are the monster...There’s no nuance, and there’s not a lot of thematic depth beyond...what is a human? And, like, what is man and what is monster? And how do they mix? And this is just like, a real literal…There’s no nuance.”

• Sean on Del Toro Era (15:52):
  “This is going to be...a divisive movie. I think there are people who have been following del Toro’s work very closely that love it, and there are people...that are kind of, like, a little sick of this…”

• Amanda on Postpartum (62:13):
  “This spoke to me. This is about…it is about the weird and terrifying experience of postpartum. It is about depression. It is about postpartum depression.”

• Rob on ‘Die My Love’ (64:07):
  “There’s a part of all of us that is hanging the wallpaper and baking the cake...and then there is the voice at the back of your head that just is telling you to run into the woods and never look back.”

• Amanda on Jennifer Lawrence’s Performance (73:23):
  “She is quite literally tits out, but not in a sexual way, in a this is…my body is leaking sort of way. And I loved it.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:43–10:18 – Industry/Trailer Talk (Michael Jackson, Testament of Anne Lee, Miss Piggy)
• 10:18–16:56 – 'Frankenstein' Introductions, Cast, Tone Setting
• 16:56–20:14 – Thematic analysis: literalism, archetype, repetition in del Toro’s work
• 20:14–24:55 – Structure, performances, pacing, and critiques
• 24:55–26:03 – Visuals, production design, color use
• 26:03–34:20 – What works: The Creature, Jacob Elordi, shifts from tradition
• 34:20–41:38 – Science in Frankenstein, narrative mechanics, creature’s power level
• 41:38–47:59 – Theater experience, Sean’s Jacob Elordi sighting
• 47:59–55:35 – Oscars debate (Best Picture, Supporting Actor), del Toro's career trends
• 55:38–60:19 – Rundown: Frankenstein movies new and old
• 60:36–82:26 – ‘Die My Love’ review: motherhood, style, Lawrence, awards chances

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

The conversation is candid, irreverent, occasionally biting, but rich with insights about genre, adaptation, and how personal obsessions or lived experiences (parenthood, alienation) shape our responses as viewers. There’s comedic, human warmth—whether defending (or admitting to hating) monster movies, puncturing Oscar hype, or ruminating on parenthood’s messiness.

Sean (On Del Toro):
"I want the best for him…I hope he's happy and he shouldn't take any notes from me. He should do whatever he wants. But it's just something that I'm saying that I want." (54:30)

Amanda (On Men and Hobbies):
"Guys, actually, you can't create life. And so then you just—you make aliens and, like, create psychological dramas for yourself, and it's, like, not that complicated." (82:19)

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Summary for the Uninitiated

If you missed the episode, here’s what you need to know:

• The hosts find del Toro’s ‘Frankenstein’ to be a visually flat, emotionally reductive, but at times ambitious work that succeeds most in its empathetic rendering of the Creature, with Jacob Elordi stealing the show. They crave more innovation and subtlety—especially from a director with del Toro’s pedigree.
• In contrast, Lynne Ramsay's ‘Die My Love’ is heralded as a visceral portrayal of postpartum life, alienation, and primal motherhood, anchored by an extraordinary Jennifer Lawrence performance. The group reflects on the universality of parenthood chaos through both films.
• Raucous detours on industry news and decades of Frankenstein adaptations round out the episode, keeping things lively.

Whether you’re here to parse Oscar odds, monster movie history, or the psychological depths of new mothers, this episode offers a feast—no monster creation required.

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For full insight, check specific timestamps for favorite segments or momentous quotes as highlighted above.

Transcript

[Sean Fantasy]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a movie to stream, State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Cool temps are here. Time to level up your wardrobe at Nordstrom. You'll find the best cold weather must haves, including thousands of styles under $100. Shop head to toe cozy from faves like Ugg, All Saints, Nordstrom Skims the North Face and more. Plus free shipping, free returns and quick order pickup. Make it easy in stores are online. It's time to go shopping at Nordstrom. I'm Sean Fantasy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm Amanda Davins and this is the.

[Sean Fantasy]

Big Picture, a conversation show about fatherhood and motherhood. We're here with our large adult son, Rob Mahoney. On today's episode, we're going to talk about Guillermo del Toro's adaptation of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, which is now streaming on Netflix. This is a massive special spectacle of a movie and obviously tremendously personal to del Toro, so we will dig deep into his vision, I suppose. Sure. Later in this episode, we'll also discuss another vision, Lynne Ramsay's Die My Love, which is a searing new drama starring Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson and is about how being a mom is extremely cool. You guys excited?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, thrilled.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fantasy]

All right, let's talk about some news before we talk about those two big feasts of a movie. The first thing that happened this morning is that there is a new trailer for Antoine Fuqua's Michael, which is a musical biopic about the life of Michael Jackson, who is a normal person.

[Rob Mahoney]

No scandal, no controversy.

[Sean Fantasy]

And we don't have to explore any of those ideas.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No legal disputes?

[Sean Fantasy]

Nope. We need to see a great artist perform his music, as we must in all musical biopics. Amanda, what did you think of the Michael trailer?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I watched it under duress. You know, we watched it here together, and it was a little bit because I had seen a. A still photograph of Miles Teller's wig from this trailer on the Internet.

[Rob Mahoney]

How would you describe it for the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

People who haven't seen that? That's enough for me. Well, it's very flat, I guess in that sense it's sitting well on the head better than some wigs that we see. Shoulder length. Esque. Right? Sort of like he was not unkempt enough to be in a, like, Off Broadway production of Hair the Musical.

[Sean Fantasy]

For context, Miles Teller is playing Michael Jackson's attorney in this. Sure, yeah. Which gives you some insight into what some of the movie will be about, perhaps.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I saw that wig. Plus, I'm trying when I can, to avoid trailers because I like to go in fresh to a movie. Plus, this just seems like a real big headache, you know, and we have a job and if we still have this job in April 2026, like, I'll see it. I guess we'll talk about it. But I'm trying to wait, you know, for as long as possible.

[Rob Mahoney]

Keep it at bay on the other side of the door, I think. As long as you possibly can.

[Sean Fantasy]

You had a very negative reaction to the trailer.

[Rob Mahoney]

It looks bad. Yeah, it looks low rent. It looks like an extension of the Bob Marley into Bruce Springsteen, like Devolution that we're all going through with this film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You have seen Deliver Me From Nowhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

You guys successfully steered me away from it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So you didn't even go.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was like. The reviews coming off of the Big Picture are so scathing that the. That I simply cannot be bothered to watch it before it goes on stream.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, it's definitely not worth showing up for this movie. I do think people are going to show up for. A lot has been going on with this film over the last few years. I remember quite vividly at two cinemacons ago, there was a presentation of footage from this movie because they've been working on it for some years. Graham King, the producer who produced Bohemian Rhapsody, came out and showed us some of the footage, including featuring one of Michael Jackson's relatives playing Michael in the film. And in the room, the theatrical exhibitors were like, put it inside of me now. You know that there was so much excitement because this was such a sure thing coming off of this wave of, you know, Bohemian Rhapsody, Elvis. Movies like this really working now. We're in a little bit of a slide at the moment on this kind of film. And then, as Matt Bellamy reported, I want to say it was last year. There's been some critical legal issues around what appears in the movie and. And some major errors were made in terms of what the story was even allowed to explore relative to the Jackson estate and some of the settlements that were made with some of his accusers. So they kind of had to rip up the third act, apparently, and push back the release Date. Now, there's one interesting piece of context around that. We just came out of the worst October at the movies in, like, 25 years. One of the reasons for that is because this movie was supposed to come out in October and it got pushed because of this problem. And then the other thing that happened is Immortal Kombat 2 also got pushed into May.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think that had a huge ripple effect?

[Sean Fantasy]

Honestly, it would have been the biggest movie on Halloween and it didn't come out. So those two movies not coming out, I think contributed to what happened here. But it's probably good that Michael didn't come out because everybody who made it would have been sued straight to hell. And.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Again, yes.

[Sean Fantasy]

So those are just kind of like. That's some legal scaffolding around. It looks like a pretty mediocre movie about an artist that we already know quite a great deal about.

[Rob Mahoney]

How are all those legal troubles sitting with you and your fellow capitalists who are so excited about the prospects of this movie financially?

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I want people going to movie theaters, but I'm much more interested in good movies than people going to movie theaters. And this looks pretty rote. It looks very familiar. There is a polish to the cinematography and production design that almost feels like AI. It really feels like it's a Sora version of just recreating something that we watched in our childhood. The rise of this massive pop star over time. So I don't, you know, artistically, what's this movie gonna tell me that I didn't know about Michael Jackson?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Absolutely nothing. I've gotta be honest, though. Like, if we are being as honest, we can be like, you know, like, Mama seiya Mama sei starts starting in the trailer and you're just like, okay, here we go. The music is still amazing. It's hard.

[Sean Fantasy]

You don't need this movie to tell you that you don't. And it's really hard. You have to play it loud.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's really, really hard to separate the art from the artist when you are making a musical biopic about the artist. Even though, as I understand it, it was the resolution of this legal dispute and the delay that. This is Michael Part one.

[Sean Fantasy]

So that isn't indicated in the trailer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fantasy]

So there was suggestion that they were gonna break the movie into two, and that may still be the case. Famously. I saw Dune and didn't know what I was about to say. So this could be a similar situation where it could be Michael Part two.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Sean Fantasy]

I'm honestly not sure then that they.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Would have kicked some of the quote, unquote, problematic aspects of the story.

[Sean Fantasy]

Right. Part one could have featured zero lawyers instead of at least one. We'll see what happens. There was a slightly less controversial trailer that was also released this morning for a film that Amanda and I have seen. You've not yet had a chance to see Rob. The Testament of Anne Lee, which is Mona Fastfold's new movie. Another biopic of sorts about the founder of the Shaker movement, who's portrayed by Amanda Seyfried in the film. So you haven't seen it? You didn't know what to expect?

[Rob Mahoney]

None. I mean, based on talent. Sure. And it just fucking rips.

[Sean Fantasy]

Very well.

[Rob Mahoney]

Assembled trailer. Speaks to me very directly. I mean, anytime you can get a percussive, rhythmic outcome of just like somebody slamming Blacksmith Steel into your trailer, you should do it for the record. And anytime you can put Amanda Seyfried in your movie, you should also do that.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, she's very, very, just remarkable in this movie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can't wait.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's a very interesting movie. I would say not a perfect movie, but a fascinating movie and at times.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ecstatic, especially the first half. I really liked this movie. I liked not knowing what to expect from this movie. So I hope that this trailer is all that you watched.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's appropriately mysterious.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, like, very cool. And I'm really excited that it got acquired and is gonna be in the mix.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Searchlight picked it up for the awards race.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay. The third and final piece of news, which you guys shared with me this morning, there is a Miss Piggy movie happening.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Sean Fantasy]

This movie is gonna be written by Cola Scola. And we know because they told the Las Colstoristas podcast that Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence are gonna produce the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Jennifer Lawrence did. And then she went on one of the late night shows and gave a little more information on what's happening.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is happening?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, she said that it came to her during COVID lockdown, when everyone was in their rooms and also everyone was being canceled. And somehow they were talking about.

[Sean Fantasy]

Is this about the cancellation of Miss Piggy?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fantasy]

That would be an amazing idea.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's on Cancel. That is what sparked it. And then she turns to the audience. She's great. And she's just like. That is not entirely the plot.

[Sean Fantasy]

That was not entirely the plot, but.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It'S really, really good.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's a clever idea.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She said that she went to Emma.

[Sean Fantasy]

Stone after the Hunt.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Colon, Miss Piggy and Emma Stone, she's like, emma Stone is a shark. So she's the business person, you know, and it was explaining their collaboration. And then she mentioned that Cholascola is writing it. Wonderful stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is thrilling.

[Sean Fantasy]

As a longtime Muppets dork, this is incredible news.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She also mentioned that Emma Stone is like the Muppets dork of the three. So that once again, one of the.

[Sean Fantasy]

Most beautiful things I've ever heard. And so unsurprising.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But you totally missed this on the Internet.

[Sean Fantasy]

I didn't see it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know what I meant to ask you the other week, and we should have talked about when we talked about the Mastermind. So did you know that the Lou got robbed?

[Sean Fantasy]

I did.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You did? That did make it to you. Okay, how.

[Rob Mahoney]

How could that Miss?

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's like, a whole, like, personal interest or, you know, like, weird news section of the world that Sean just regularly.

[Sean Fantasy]

If it's about, like, something crazy in the sea, I don't know what's going on.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Sean Fantasy]

Has a whale done something I don't know about?

[Rob Mahoney]

I can assure you they have.

[Sean Fantasy]

You can't. Trust me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do you know what the password was at the Louvre?

[Sean Fantasy]

Oh, this is big. I read it, but I don't remember.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was Louvre.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was Louvre. Just a step up from 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's just not ideal.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Anyway, yeah, the Miss Piggy Movie News was everywhere on my Internet. But welcome aboard.

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, I'm happy to learn about it, and I hope that film actually gets made. A film that has been made is Frankenstein. Let's speak of this film now. It has this, as I mentioned, is written and directed by Guillermo del Toro. This is del Toro's 13th film as a director. It's based on the Mary Shelley novel, which you may or may not remember. Has the subtitle Frankenstein or comma, the Modern Prometheus, which should tell you all about this film's perspective.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't think Frankenstein's a modern Prometheus?

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, is this Frankenstein a modern Prometheus?

[Rob Mahoney]

We're not.

[Sean Fantasy]

It stars Oscar Isaac, Jacob Elordi, Mia Goth, Charles Dance, Felix Camerer, who people may remember from All Quiet on the Western Front. And let's talk about it right now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Christoph Waltz.

[Sean Fantasy]

Oh, yeah, Christoph Waltz. Well, you can see you'll be able to figure out why I've forgotten about him already. This is Frankenstein. It follows the life of a scientist who wants to revivify a corpse and create new life and the trials and travails he encounters along the way, learning how to be a dad of the undead.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I start with a question?

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes, you may.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Inspired by some pre recording text messaging that the two of us were doing while one person observed. So you guys are pretty big into Frankenstein?

[Sean Fantasy]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, are you not? Could you.

[Sean Fantasy]

I wouldn't say that I am either.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fantasy]

I know a lot about it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All right. Could you please explain your complicated relationship to Frankenstein?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is not a character I care about a lot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Why? Have you seen so many Frankenstein movies?

[Rob Mahoney]

They just kind of make their way to you. I mean, but I think the problem is that many of them are not very good. Yeah, it's a pretty limited list, and the influence is wide. The parody is everywhere. Like, you can't escape Frankenstein. But I don't care about Frankenstein in the way that I care about Dracula. Like, the iconography is there, but there's not a lot of soul there, you know?

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, we.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, me, Rob, and Chris isn't there.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're certainly trying.

[Sean Fantasy]

Me, Rob, and Chris did an episode about Nosferatu. I refused to it. Yeah. And I think we had a lot of fun talking about the kind of long history of the vampire movie and the Dracula movie. And there is a very long history of Frankenstein films. This is a rare case where the original or not, maybe not the original, but the James Whale version from the 30s looms very large over film history. It is widely considered one of the most critical texts in all of movie history. And the fact that we live in a time now when horror movies are so important to movies, it feels even bigger. There have been a lot of Frankenstein movies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tons.

[Sean Fantasy]

There have been some adaptations of the novel. Most of them are using the novel as a kind of a springboard. And then there's been this whole group of movies, which I'll talk about after we talk about the Del Toro movie that are basically cribbing the core idea and then making a completely different kind of movie. Before we get to all that, I wanted to start with you to talk about Del Toro's version, because Amanda and I have sort of briefly been a bit rude about the film coming out of festivals, and we both went to go see it a second time just to make sure that we saw what. We still feel rude. Yeah. But so I'm very curious how you feel about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I liked it. Again, this is not a character who I have a strong attachment to, but if you're going to make a Frankenstein story, this is the guy you go to to do it. And I think this is sort of the spirit in which you want to attempt it, try to make it new, try to introduce some new wrinkles, try to find, like, some spark of life, if you'll allow it, like, in the story, beyond what we've already, like, worn into the ground. I think it kind of gets there and is mostly successful. And I like the movie, but don't love it.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I ask in what context you saw the film?

[Rob Mahoney]

I saw it in a full theater.

[Sean Fantasy]

Oh.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here in Los Angeles, which I have many questions about why that's not a widely available experience. I don't know why this was not a movie released in October, why any of that stuff was happening. Very curious to me. But ultimately, like, a lively viewing experience.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

How did you see it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

But you did see. I. Well, I saw it at the Venice Film Festival, and then I saw it again yesterday, also in a theater, a matinee with more people than are usually at this local theater for a Wednesday matinee.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a very Venice vibe, though, this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Though, I don't think.

[Sean Fantasy]

Or Switzerland.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it's definitely Venice is. There's more velvet in Venice as opposed. I can imagine, to, like, whatever, you know, weird substances are going on here, and there are more colors.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The desaturation here is something that I'd like to discuss.

[Sean Fantasy]

But did your second viewing unearth anything new for you?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that it made me understand that I find, in addition to the fact that I do not like the way that it looks visually and that I don't really care that much about Frankenstein, the story, I find the interpretation of this story a little facile, even within that context. I know this is a project that del Toro has been wanting to make since he was a child and discovered the book, been talking about it since thousands of years, and it looms large over so much of his work. And I feel that he has interpreted the Frankenstein story in much better ways in the movies that he made before this.

[Rob Mahoney]

So eat shit, Mary Shelley. Eat shit, childhood. Guillermo del Toro. You're just, like, stomping on dreams and legacies out here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I feel like. I feel bad about it. Well, I think that. I mean, I do just think that it looks bad, and we can talk about it.

[Sean Fantasy]

You should explore the ways in which that. Because I think that there will be. This is going to be a. It already is a divisive movie. I think there are people who have been following del Toro's work very closely that love it, and there are people who've been following del Toro's work very closely that are kind of, like, a little sick of this and a little bit. I'm a little bit worn out, I think, on some of this. And I think also the Netflix era of. Of Del Toro's work has augured this curious visual transformation that I'm not stoked about. And this one is like a. It's a. I don't hate this movie, but I definitely don't love it. And there's things I admire about it and things I really like, borderline revile about it. And I'm curious what you mean by fastile in terms of the interpretation of the story. Like, what are the changes or the things that he's reading into it that you think are not working?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just. Brother, you are the monster. You know, I groaned the first time, but it is like, it is an adaptation of a novel, but he's been doing more complex work with these ideas, whether it's about, you know, humanity and creation and the God complex. And I don't know what it's like having a dad that's mean to you and, like, being obsessed with your mother and, like, just. And feeling like an outsider from the world. And what is family and what is love? And, like, what is a human? And, like, what is man and what is monster? And how do they mix? And this is just like, a real literal. To the point that they have the brother say, you are the monster at the end. And I was like, yeah, you know, I did get that you were going with that. There's no nuance, and there's not a lot of thematic depth beyond. I mean, it is, like, you know, a very gothic, pulpy story. And, like, plot's great. Roger Ebert. And I agree, but I've seen all that before, and I don't think I saw anything more than the plot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Some of that is just Del Toro. There are three lines in every movie he makes. It's like, did you really have to say that out loud?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think the trade off is, like, if you're dealing in archetype and myth, which he is doing, whether he's creating it or adapting it, do you need the cool lion? Like, do you need it to be less than obvious? Like, there is something about his movies that is elemental, that when it works, it really, really clicks, and it feels like a story that's always been part of your life. This kind of does feel old at certain parts. I admire the ways in which he tries to make it new. But, like, I think some of that is unavoidable for the way he makes movies and wants to make movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's why he's never been, like, A huge. And, you know, at some point, I don't really respond to monster stories in the same way. Like, I don't need it embedded in, like, an archetype in myth. Like, the monsters are all around us in real life. See part two of this, you know, conversation for another way in which I respond to different explorations of the human experience. But, yeah, some of it was just a little silly.

[Sean Fantasy]

He's had this interesting evolution as a director where, you know, his first few films, some of them are about actual monsters that don't have a lot of depth in terms of where they came from, you know, what they're. You know, Kronos and mimic, his first American movie. These are, like, real classic monster movies. And over time, he's gotten increasingly fascinated by the idea of, like, the monster is misunderstood. He should be better. He should be looked at as just as human as you or I. And he keeps going back to that concept over and over again. With Pinocchio, he talked about how he wanted to make Pinocchio like a Frankenstein movie, and he wants to make this movie like a Pinocchio movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, he made Pinocchio a fascist. I mean, he was.

[Sean Fantasy]

He was trying to. Fascist times.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think Pinocchio is a better Frankenstein movie than this is a Frankenstein movie, ultimately.

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, I think it's because that movie is pretty scary. And this movie is scary at all.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not at all.

[Sean Fantasy]

And I think that he has way too much empathy for the monster in this movie. And I. You know, it's probably a facile reading on my part to say, like, he just sees himself as the monster he had. The person that he's comporting his personality into is the person who has kind of been victimized but will rise above. Sure. And that has been very present in a lot of his films. In Nightmare Alley, in Shape of Water. Like, that's in all those movies. And so he's kind of beating this drum with some filmmakers who we like will say, like, well, that's a theme that they return to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's a Sofia Coppola movie.

[Sean Fantasy]

Sure. In the case of this movie, to me, it's ultimately because the movie itself is just not as good. So I'm not willing to allow it totally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, also, he does identify with the creature. And this film is divided into two pretty unequal parts. Part One, the Creator's Tale, and Part two, the Creature's Tale. Creature's Tale, for my money, is way more involving. You can tell that's where his heart is. It has a better performance from Jacob Elordi. But you sit through almost two hours of like, Oscar Isaac is never bad. He's just sort of. He's cast in an island of, you know, a weird CGI tower and a very, very broad British accent. Sort of like Morgan Spector on the Gilded Age, like level. And Morgan Spector's great on the Gilded Age, but, you know, like, we're playing to the back of the theater completely.

[Sean Fantasy]

There's a lot of like, I shun Devin's actor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly. And it's. But the movie just has to spend so much time with the creator first. And it's like, the thing is, is.

[Sean Fantasy]

That it didn't have to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I agree. But he makes that choice and I. And so we have to. And I'm like, why didn't you just make the second half?

[Rob Mahoney]

He is in the who says no to this guy? Era of his career. Like, where is the edit that takes 10 minutes out of the creator? Part of the story. And honestly, part of the reason that section is as long as it is because I agree with both of you that he identifies with the creature on some level. He wants to tell the creature story. There is like the self flagellating, I am also Victor Frankenstein part of him that's like, I think putting himself through the paces of making this guy miserable and terrible. Almost inexplicably, that also appeals to a story he's trying to tell. It's just too long a story. And as you're saying, like, doesn't have enough going for it.

[Sean Fantasy]

It does do. Here's one thing I'm very cynical about, about this movie. So the film opens with a prelude, which is a critical part of the Shelley novel as well, about the ship and the captain that are on a journey and they eventually encounter Victor in the Arctic because Victor is chasing the monster to kill the monster. The film opens with that and it manages to turn what is represented in the novel as a series of letters from the captain into a big action sequence. Now, the cynical part of my brain says that we're about to have a 90 minute stretch of costume drama. So just to make sure that you don't turn this movie off, we need to have the monster throwing a bunch of sailors into a ship. That stuff doesn't look great. The CGI in this movie is not very strong. No. And it sets you up for a certain kind of like, adventure monster movie that this just is not. This is a sensitive drama about a scientist and his lost love. And a lot of that stuff is not rendered great. And you can dispute it or not, but the movie does that thing that a lot of TV shows do all the time now, where they show you the end at the beginning, and then they're like, how did we get here? And then they go back to the very beginning, and then they're just telling the story.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So when they. When they go back to that wide shot in the Arctic, I was like, this is the only truly beautiful thing in this movie. That's not true. There are a couple other sequences.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, but they built the goddamn ship. Like, the ship looks great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why is everything around looks like a set? And the whole. You can see the sets and it's like very like.

[Sean Fantasy]

I guess I don't have a problem with that because.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So they're going for, like a soundstage thing.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think it's. They're going for, like, the kind of fussiness of this time in history. Sure. You know, especially in. More. In the Mansion, in the Homes, that there is like an artificiality to a lot of it because everything is kind of bought and hung. But the thing that I kept thinking about this, even watching this the second time, is that this movie is actually just more interested in the depth of itself. Sets than in the depth of its characters. That it is ultimately, it is beautifully adorned, not beautifully shot. I feel like there's something in the filmmaking style where Del Toro now is, like, really interested in the wide shot and showing you everything that he built. But then that detracts a little bit from what he's trying to say. And I felt that all the way up until Elordi comes to life. And we can talk about the merits of that part of the film, too, for sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. I don't know whether the cinematography, it's just. It's flat. It's flat. It has, like, almost the motion smoothing aspect to it. And I don't know whether that's because it's being engineered for, you know, Netflix. I watched it on screens both times, but I assume they were digital. How did it look on film? Did you go see it on film?

[Sean Fantasy]

Better. Didn't. Didn't change the. Particularly whenever the CGI comes into play and there's a series of moments, you know, there's a very big, explosive scene in the middle of the movie where a tower is on fire. It just doesn't look good. I mean, it's $120 million movie. It just doesn't look good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just kept waiting for the Crimson Peak moment for me, which is like, that's a movie that I think Is more style than substance in a lot of ways. But it has so much visual flair and so much love of, like, color and contrast. And this is so gray. Like, other than Elizabeth's dresses, where they just have her style to look like a big old bug in a way that I really do like.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think the costuming is very good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Costuming is great. And she.

[Sean Fantasy]

She.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, she is wearing red as a motif where everyone else is, like, very purposefully washed out. And so she has this beautiful red dress. Like, in one wide outdoor shot, it's outdoors. Thank you. And then the red umbrella that follows her. And then I think the sequence one. Spoiler alert. She dies, and the monster carries her into the tomb, and her dress, like, becomes, like, a different. Like this. This looks beautiful, you know, and this is. The image is matching the themes and the setting, but otherwise, yeah, man, it just. It looks yucky. And like. And, like, kind of remarkably like the, like, Wicked. And, like, one of the rooms in Wicked. Like, even the windows, I was like, I've seen those before. And it's right before Elphaba and that guy do, like, a silent mime dance for 10 minutes.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the bummer, though. Cause, like, Del Toro is one of the few filmmakers who still gets the latitude and the budget to do, at least in a lot of cases, big practical stuff where it looks lavish and they get hundreds of extras. He has a leeway that many guys and women making films do not have.

[Sean Fantasy]

He's also very vocal about this. I mean, he talks about it constantly, about the necessity of physical creation, and he's been extremely vocal about AI in the last year or so. And to me, I see what he is attempting. I'm a pretty big fan of his. A lot of his movies resonate with me. I do feel like he's kind of just like, spinning his own wheels a little bit here in terms of the story. Now, I do want to talk a little bit about what does work in the movie, and specifically because you ultimately came out liking it. I think the first half is not very effective. Personally, I think Elordi has been getting very high marks for his performance, I think, very understandably. I think that's one of the first things that we said when we talked about it out of the festivals. Why is that part so much more effective, do you think, than the first half of this movie?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think his, like, honestly, the creature. And you can tell that Del Toro cares about him so much by the fact that it's one of Del Toro's most emotionally well Developed characters. Like, he's not someone who spends a lot of time developing a lot of interiority. It's all visual, it's all, again, myth. It's like these very. Everyone is kind of filling a role in his stories.

[Sean Fantasy]

Typically, he does archetype. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This feels like someone who, for better or worse, you spend a lot of time inside his head. And now narration from a creature may not be your cup of tea, and I wouldn't blame you if it wasn't, but they actually do dedicate a lot of time in understanding him in a way that they don't even with Victor Frankenstein.

[Sean Fantasy]

Why?

[Rob Mahoney]

Victor Frankenstein makes the series of choices that he does, other than he's obsessed in the beginning of the story, and then ultimately doesn't even think about what he's going to do if he gets the thing that he wants. Like the next day. It's kind of like the dog chasing the mailman kind of situation. Like, what would I even do if I caught him? But the story kind of stops there and there's no other exploration of what Victor Frankenstein is about at all, really. That's not the case for the creature. And so I think there is something a little more well articulated there.

[Sean Fantasy]

So in the novel and in other adaptations of this story, the monster is more of a monster and more violent and more responsible for the tragedies in the story. This movie very purposefully shifts almost all of the blame, for lack of a better word, onto Victor, that Victor is the architect of everything that is wrong in this world. And, you know, you identified this as daddy issues. I think that's not unfair.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, his father is played by Charles Dance, who.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tough typecasting for Charles Dance.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can't name the right, you know, humors or whatever.

[Sean Fantasy]

You know, Charles Dance has already played Victor Frankenstein's father in a film. Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then it's just so there's just a lashing to the face. And then he loves his little brother more. And then Charles Dance dies. Yes, he's out.

[Sean Fantasy]

And so we did leave out the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Part where he is, like, gently fingering a model of a pregnant woman. That is like the stand in for his mom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that was pretty weird. And then, you know, and then we.

[Sean Fantasy]

See again as her coffin. And also Christopher Walt, the handle of Christopher Waltz's cane, Christoph Waltz's cane is also that same, I think that same figurine that he's toying with. We haven't even talked about Christoph Waltz because in the first half, for some reason, the film needs to introduce a character who is a benefactor that allows Victor Frankenstein to conduct his experiments. I guess. And that benefactor also wants to be placed into the body of one of his revived corpses.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's dying of syphilis because we all know the stages of the disease.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

But this is ultimately the situation is you can't have the Del Toro decrepit manner if Victor Frankenstein himself had money. So somebody has to have money to pay him. And apparently it needs to be an army like a war. Like someone who Crimean War machine. A war profiteer of a kind who therefore can also provide the bodies to make the Frankenstein.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you. And. And we learn that you got to take them from the middle of the pile.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Very important because they've been crushed at the bottom and exposed to the elements up above. Listen.

[Sean Fantasy]

That was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I learned a lot about how Victor Frankenstein puts his science projects together.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And they take really great care in like making all the gross muscles and the lymphatic system and everything looks real. You know, like it's. I feel sad for everyone involved that we're talking so much about the cgi. That does look bad because it is clear that so much care went into making so much of this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Without a doubt.

[Sean Fantasy]

I completely agree. But they are working at cross purposes, unfortunately. I think the challenge of this interpretation and I welcome reinterpretation of any great work of art. I think film is one of a great medium for someone looking at a classic piece of literature and saying like, what if it was more like this? And I turned the dial to the left. In this case, if you make the monster wholly sympathetic, Not a little sympathetic, but also dangerous. Wholly sympathetic. It kind of drains the juice from the story and it makes it Twilight. There is a component of that. There is a component of that.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it wants a companion.

[Sean Fantasy]

Batman and wolves. You know, much like in Twilight. I think it just means that the movie's not going to be scary like Boris Karloff built his career on being terrifying.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is this supposed to be scary?

[Sean Fantasy]

An epic romance of Frankenstein to me is not very interesting. Sure. I think if it was gonna spend more time with Elordi and more of a psychological character portrait, that might be a less event packed film and it might be more internal as you're describing. But it would be different. It would be different enough maybe to justify it. And Elordi is in this interesting position. One they've redesigned the monster. Right. I think are really good in this movie. His practical visualization is very different from the Karloff character. It's very different from the character that Christopher Lee Played in the Hammer films. It's very different from even what's described in the Shelley books, which is like, where the skin is hanging off of the character and it's much more grotesque. This is like he's kind of like Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen a little bit. You know, like a kind of a lean, powerful, sutured figure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is that the guy that has sex to Hallelujah?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's everyone I watch.

[Sean Fantasy]

Meant to be filmed. Yes, it is. Thank you for knowing that. Okay, can we just say that the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Creature design is by Mikel, who works with Del Toro.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. Pretty regularly, and he frequently does amazing work. And, you know, if you've seen Hellboy or, you know, even, I mean, what is the shape of water? The creature design is amazing in that movie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's a very fuckable fish, man. Absolutely.

[Sean Fantasy]

And he got fucked canonically. I like how he looks. I like Elordi's performance, which is kind of in the tradition of a lot of silent cinema actors, where he has to be tremendously expressive. He basically only gets to say the word Victor for roughly 40 minutes of the movie before he is taught by a kindly blind man how to spell.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And read John Milton.

[Rob Mahoney]

He just turns out he's a visual learner. We're going about this the wrong way.

[Sean Fantasy]

He is not my favorite shot in the movie when David Bradley is holding a card that says eye, and then the camera zooms in on his eye. And I was, okay, again, this is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not the place you come for subtlety. It's just not.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's not. And then Elordi, eventually he learns the power of language and he protects the kindly old man until he can.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he learns about Paradise Lost.

[Sean Fantasy]

He does. And, you know, Paradise Lost, obviously very important to Shelley, and I think it's featured prominently in the novel as well as, like, a signpost for the creature. But the movie does then ultimately just become kind of like a revenge drama in the second half where the monster revisits his former home, reads some papers strewn about after the fire. It's like there's a full blown tower fire and then there's some papers around. And he's like, oh, so this is how I came to be a person in the novel. I think, if I recall, the papers are in the clothes.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a little more organic, and they're inside the computer.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, I think there's a couple of storytelling mechanics, stuff that is a little wonky. And then it just becomes like the Antarctic chase movie into the finale. And I don't know, I didn't think this was very good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Mia Goth, innocent.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

Here's the problem.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

She, of course, to me, is a living legend. I will watch her do anything.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fantasy]

She needs to be crazy to be really effective in a movie. And this is a very demure, empathetic character. Well, I mean, this is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, this is like, you know, manic pity, pixie Goth girl. She just, like, she really likes insects. Guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

Loves them. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And like. And weird things, and it's. You know. And she loves him, too.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Del Toro has a type, right? Like, two types. Like, you're either pale and severe, or you're pale and naive. And she's in the pale. She's in the Chastain mold.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Cate Blanchett mold of what he likes to do. She's perfectly fine in this. Perfectly good. I was talking with Jack Sanders before. I'm curious about what the sex appeal of Jacob Elordi as the creature is in this movie, because Elizabeth seems very like she meets him and within moments has grabbed his hands and put them around her throat. This is a woman who understands what she wants. But will audiences have a similar response? I honestly don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's tall. He's tall. It's like, that is. I mean, that is Jacob Lordi in a nutshell. He's just like, very tall, and he just has tall energy wherever he goes, and it works.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was there any part of you that sees him as a mute giant man in a diaper and is like, I can fix him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know if I could fix him? Yeah, I'm, you know, I've matured past that. You know, you can never fix. You can only meet them where they are.

[Sean Fantasy]

Would you agree to be made his undead companion as he demands at the end of the film?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, because he seems pretty unhappy.

[Sean Fantasy]

You have bride energy, though. Do I? Yeah. Elsa Lanchester bride energy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not like being a bride at a wedding. I famously hated that.

[Sean Fantasy]

You don't have that energy. No, you have. I am a shrieking undead monster. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's fine with me. But it just. It does seem like a long time to just go around. Like, he seems pretty uncomfortable.

[Sean Fantasy]

You mean forever?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

And he's indestructible. Is this Frankenstein a little too powerful?

[Rob Mahoney]

You want to power set him?

[Sean Fantasy]

He has Captain America's powers. I mean, he is indestructible. He can take bullets. He's pushing a ship all by himself to lose free. I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is Captain America more powerful than Superman?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Why did you invoke Captain America instead of Superman?

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, I think you could probably burn the creature to death. Can you?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, he.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I guess he saves the fire.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think he wouldn't heal, but he.

[Rob Mahoney]

Literally catches on fire and says, I feel my flesh regrowing.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, but if you burned him out before it could regenerate, maybe. I feel like this is the only one destructible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So we learned a lot. This is magic. Impromptu science quarter. Impromptu science corner.

[Sean Fantasy]

Welcome to Amanda Dobbins science corner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So we learn that there's some sort of electricity that they gotta plug into the double lymphatic system, which is just above the horizontal heart. And you're going in through the spine?

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes, Correct.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So you gotta short circuit the electricity.

[Sean Fantasy]

Uh huh.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Where was the electricity coming from? I will be.

[Sean Fantasy]

Lightning.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, lightning.

[Rob Mahoney]

They harness the lightning.

[Sean Fantasy]

So this is how it happens in every Frankenstein film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think I went to the bathroom twice.

[Sean Fantasy]

This is the most epic set piece of the film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You think? I. Sure. It's just like really dark in there. And I was like, this sucks, you know, And I was like, that looks like wicked.

[Sean Fantasy]

When he gets into a dispute with Christoph Walter.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Singing.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. Christoph Walter attempts to steal one of the tools that's going to attach that allows the electricity to run a current into the corpse's body.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, right.

[Sean Fantasy]

One of those tools, one of those kind of prongs falls on the ground and bends. It bends ever so slightly to the right. Yep.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fantasy]

And when it's retrieved and screwed on, you see that somehow this tool, it's all very fallid. Doesn't totally work properly. And because of this bend, this has somehow given the monster the powers of immortality.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that's a limited experience and a limited worldview. But anyway. What do you mean? Just saying, you know, buddy, go continue.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay. The monster is very powerful in all of the stories. Has superhuman strength and everything, but he is legit a superhero.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is a superhero. But I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You don't think that if you caught the lightning again and like, you know, short circuited illusion. I sat through a lot of science in this movie. So now we're gonna discuss it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, the science is one of the best parts. The models, the like, the designs again, like the lymphatic notes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just am like, probably you could reverse the current if you had the right tools.

[Rob Mahoney]

Are you a physicist?

[Sean Fantasy]

One thing I want to say, I'm.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not good at physics. Too theoretical.

[Sean Fantasy]

So as you know, some of my heritage is Swiss.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We know every world. We hear about it.

[Sean Fantasy]

Swiss people. This is very much what Swiss people are like. Swiss people are like, I know what the answer is. Like, they're just quite sure that they know how the lymphatic system will be re energized with the current. And I'd like to salute them for acknowledging the Swiss for their hubris collectively. What else do you want to say about this movie? What else do you like about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

How much can we talk about the ending? Ending?

[Sean Fantasy]

Well, let's put a casing around it and say if you don't want to hear the ending. I mean, it's Frankenstein. It's not that different from Frankenstein.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is a little different than Frankenstein. I would say one of the departures is changing it from the normal kind of climactic end of Frankenstein in which, yes, the creature survives, to one in which the message of it ultimately is around forgiveness.

[Sean Fantasy]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And this is where the idea of him being superpowered, I think, is kind of compelling. A lot of Guillermo del Toro stuff treats eternal life as like an unbelievable curse, an incredible burden. And if you were burdened with eternal life, one of the great burdens would be forgiving every asshole, whoever does you wrong, including your, who cobbled you together from respective corpses. And so you can see, like, the interest in telling a story about, like the larger human command being to forgive. If you are tasked with living forever, the greatest thing you could do would be to forgive the people who have wronged you. And I think that it's a moving sentiment that maybe doesn't quite get all the way there.

[Sean Fantasy]

To me. I read the very ending as, again, a somewhat simple minded echo of something that Victor says to the monster earlier in the film, which is when he is exposed to sunlight. He says, sunlight, go into the sun. Sun gives you life. When the movie ends, he's pushed the ship off, they take off on their journey and he stands alone in the sunlight. And now he's a creature that has life. Yeah, that's fine. That's like a little Hallmark for me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Where are they getting the brains? Like, is. Are they wholesale or are they piecing together his brain?

[Sean Fantasy]

You mean like, are they getting them from Ralph's or.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no, no. Is it like.

[Sean Fantasy]

Is it a whole food situation?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'd like to know. I'd like to. I'm trying to understand his memory.

[Sean Fantasy]

Trader Joe's brain is incredible.

[Rob Mahoney]

The frozen ones, come on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are they just taking a wholesale brain from some guy in the war?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, yes, because Christoph Waltz wanted it to be his brain.

[Sean Fantasy]

He wants it to be his Brain.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. So why doesn't he have the brain of someone? You know, of that guy? Why doesn't he have those memories?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know how the human soul works, I gotta say.

[Sean Fantasy]

I don't know. You just circled back to Science Corner here. You know, again, Science Corner is about asking or answering questions.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's a robust idea.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. This is the scientific method at work. We're not coming in saying this is what Tylenol does to you. We're saying we're gonna try to prove it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We're gonna put on wigs like those people sitting in the bleachers when he reanimates people. And we're just. We're gonna discuss.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, that would be great content. We have someone standing in the middle of an auditorium, a bunch of ringer staffers around them in powdered wigs, shouting them down, encouraging them. Just like a real yay or nay situation based on.

[Sean Fantasy]

Takes a look. I have a note about that sequence which features the great Ralph Anderson, who I love, one of the great voices in movies. He's very effective in this movie, too. As well. Of the sort of, like, science judges who's telling the doctor to leave immediately. But what Dr. Frankenstein, in that sequence shows them with the, you know, top half of the human. You know, the head and the chest and that functioning hand when he throws him the ball and that corpse catches that ball. Everybody in that room in. What is the story taking place? 1855. Yeah. Would be like, what? This is the single craziest thing that has happened in the history of the world. That this man revived a body and made it react. And these three old men, I understand that they would be afraid. Yes. And that there is something against God in the work.

[Rob Mahoney]

Undoubtedly.

[Sean Fantasy]

But to just, like, scuttle it and be like, we'll never talk of this again. The craziest thing that has happened in the history of civilization.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Sean Fantasy]

You guys buy that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You sound a little bit like a tech bro defending AI Right now. Just like, to put it on record.

[Rob Mahoney]

It'S changing the world.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's not very nice. That's not how I feel about AI all okay. I think that this movie, what you said earlier is very true, which is that despite our many complaints and grouchy attitude about this, people do like this movie. And they would have gone to see it. It probably would have been. I don't know about a massive hit, but it would have been successful. Something. I also saw it in a movie theater yesterday at the Chinese, which is a huge room. The imax Theater at the Chinese Theater. And it was about. About 3/4 full in the afternoon on a Wednesday.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Los Angeles is a unique town.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Sean Fantasy]

So I thought it played well with the crowd. Not great. But I'd like to tell you a crazy story. I sat down. I got there a little early for the movie, and I sat in the front row of the upper section so that I could stretch my legs as much as I wanted and watched.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just the height of privilege for me.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. Truly. I watched the previews, and then just as the film was starting, a very tall person walked past me to sit down two seats next to me. This person was wearing a black hoodie and boots, and it was Jacob Elde. Wow. And honestly, I had some reservations about sharing this because I don't want to put this guy on front street. Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought for certain you were going to say LeBron James.

[Sean Fantasy]

No. And I have really nothing else to say other than he watched this movie, and he seemed to admire Oscar Isaac's performance because he was kind of, like, laughing at some key moments. But it was fascinating to be watching the movie, sitting beside the monster. Wow. And I felt a little uncomfortable. And it also was like. It was humanizing, you know, it was like, he's an artist. I just saw this morning some images of him taking photos out of costume during the production of the movie because, you know, one, I think he's an aspiring photographer, and two, he obviously was kind of blown away by the world that they had created. Yeah. And it gave me, like, maybe a little bit more empathy for the process of this film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did he have a bag with him?

[Sean Fantasy]

I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's just all of these experiences.

[Sean Fantasy]

I'm sitting in the dark still.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think you would be able to spot the potatoes. He ate popcorn, you know. Oh, okay. That's good.

[Sean Fantasy]

He ate popcorn.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right? I mean, fine. It's fine.

[Sean Fantasy]

He was very polite when he walked past me to go to the restroom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, great.

[Rob Mahoney]

You realize this is the social clip that's getting pulled from this episode.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just you saying, I saw Jacob Elordi one time and he ate popcorn. And people want that.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the catnip.

[Sean Fantasy]

But I didn't just see him. I saw him during the film Frankenstein.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I like how now you're like, well, I sat there because I wanted to stretch my legs out because I, too, am tall like Jacob Elordi. I know. I see. Yeah. Nice try. Well, you're not as tall, Jacobi.

[Sean Fantasy]

I'm not as tall as Jacob Elordi. But I'm tall enough to need to stretch my legs. I'm not even as tall as Rob Mahoney.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fantasy]

We're doing our best, the tall guys of America.

[Rob Mahoney]

We truly are. It's our burden, you know?

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. So, anyway, I just thought I would share that. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's nice. That's very sweet that he wanted to do that. Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

I was wondering how many times, if at all, he had seen it. Of course he's been to the premiere of the film. But, you know, a lot of filmmakers and actors can't watch their work or don't want to see their films.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So in Venice, they tend to. They're front and center, so they don't leave. So if you're there at the premiere, you're there for it.

[Sean Fantasy]

He might have had the same mentality that I had, and I assume you had too, which is like, I want to see this on the big screen before I can't see it on the big screen anymore. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply.

[Jack Sanders]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Black Friday savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to stock up on new additions to your collection. And right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. So check out the best deals of the season and get top brand tools you'll use for projects all year long. Black Friday savings happening now at the Home Depot limit 1 per transaction exclusions apply. Full eligible tool list in store and online. This episode is brought to you by mobile1.mobile1's synthetic motor oil knows your car is your happy place. But did you know your happy place has a happy place? It's not stuck in rush hour traffic. We've all been there, especially in la.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's always terrible.

[Jack Sanders]

And the entire time you're sitting there, you know deep down that your car's favorite place is on the open road singing its favorite song while you sing along to yours. Mobile One for the love of driving, visit LoveOfDriving us to learn more awards.

[Sean Fantasy]

Chances now Rob on the show, it's like 4,000. In recent weeks we have been noting that it's been rising in the estimation of festival goers and seemingly some voting bodies. Yeah, we've kind of firmly planted it right smack in the middle of our best picture power rankings for best picture. I know you're not an expert, but you're assuming that this movie is going to make it into best picture.

[Rob Mahoney]

On a gut level, that still sounds surprising to me.

[Sean Fantasy]

Why do you would say that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I guess it to me it is so like mid level Del Toro. It does have an audience, but is it going to be enough of an awards, the audience and that kind of pull? And ultimately I think whether it gets in is going to depend more on how the Elordi performance in particular sits with people. And if that's one that people are championing and feels like something that is rising to the top of the pile, then all of a sudden Frankenstein just gets into the mix in a totally different way.

[Sean Fantasy]

What do you think at this point?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think there's a huge amount of affection for Del Toro and there's a huge admiration for all of the production design and costume design and physical work that did go into this movie. So despite the CGI of it all, I think you'll have below the line, you know, categories stacking up and that will, that kind of brings the movie to more people's attention. Film it's getting, you know, audience favorite awards at festivals. Jacob Elordi is pretty good and also has a significant following of, you know, me and many other people.

[Sean Fantasy]

He's a good person you want to see at the Academy Awards. I want to see a young star like him at the Academy Awards.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I and just because of the weird best Picture year, which we say every year now, there's no normal year but the weird Netflix slate where it's just, it's a little early and it's hard to see how it's gonna shake out. But they've got House of Dynamite, they've got J. Kelly, they've got Frankenstein and they've got Train Dreams, which I'm gonna see this weekend. And it's. This seems like the grabbiest at this point.

[Sean Fantasy]

I agree with that. So let's talk about Best Supporting Actor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fantasy]

Very interesting slate of potential nominees here. We've got Benicio Del Toro for One Battle After Another, Banger. Adam Sandler for J. Kelly. We've got Delroy Lindo for Sinners. We've got Stellan Skarsgard for Sentimental Value. We've got Sean Penn for One Battle After Another. We've got Paul Mescal for Hamnet. Oh, yeah, it's a loaded category. And if you want to throw Miles Caton in from Sinners Too, you can do that as well. Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Deserving.

[Sean Fantasy]

If you wanna throw Jeremy Strong in for Springsteen, maybe don'. That is. It's going to be not be easy for a Lordy to get in. No, I think there has to be a really strong appreciation for him because I feel like at this point I feel strongly about Sean Penn and Benicio. I feel strongly about Sandler, even though he's never been nominated before. And I feel strongly about Stellan Skarsgard. That fifth spot is kind of where he would go. And Delroy Lindo was overlooked for the Five Bloods recently. Maybe there's a sense that he needs to be recognized before it's too late.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's so fabulous in Centers too. He's really great.

[Sean Fantasy]

Great. They need to run a really good campaign for him, I think, for that to work out.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're saying Elordi needs to run a campaign. Did it ever occur to you that he followed you into that theater and was like, you know what? I need to get a little word of mouth going. I need to get a little goodwill.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's very sweet of you to say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm just saying.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think we all know that that's not true. If in fact he has a chance there, then you do need to see costume design, makeup and hairstyling, score, visual effects. Even if you don't like it, it's in play. Editing, maybe, if there's a ton of support. Director, if there's an overwhelming amount of support, as you said, he has a lot of friends and is really liked and he does a thing. When I saw Nosferatu last year, he conducted the Q and A with.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, he's the champion.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. With the filmmaker.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, he's the Ombudsman of horror, basically. And I guess anything kind of horror adjacent.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. So I won't be surprised if this ends up getting six or seven or eight nominations, honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, the design makeup stuff is a lock. I would think.

[Sean Fantasy]

I totally agree as far as where he's at. So he's now made his fable, his vampire movie, his Kaiju movie, his Gothic Romance 2 comic book, his noir, his universal monster movie, another universal monster movie, his Pinocchio and his ghost story. He's kind of touched all sides of the Dungeons and Dragons die of genre filmmaking. I mean, he really has explored kind of the farthest reaches. And one thing that I have been a little bit disappointed by, even though I really liked Nightmare Alley, is it's been a long time since he's made an original movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

And I feel like he's a little lost in the sauce and not leaning into what really animates him. Like the guy who made Kronos and Devil's Backbone. Like, I want to see that guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, in Pan's Labyrinth. Pan's Labyrinth, that's his masterpiece as far as I'm concerned. And that's an original tale that doesn't feel original. I would also love to see him make something contemporary for the first time in like 20 years. Like everything is period all the time. And I know you love again, like a Victorian manor and a certain kind of like buttoned up dress and you want like the butterflies and the moths everywhere. Like, that's cool. But can we do something set in the present day?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No. It is hard to have original ideas. You're describing things that he had when he was younger and. And there. I think that there is something to the idea. He's been wanting to make this movie his whole career. And because he couldn't and. Or for whatever reason, he got forced into other ways to interpret it. The projects that you wait forever for are sometimes a little labored. And so, you know, I don't know. He's done a lot, give him credit for that. But I agree. I mean, I don't want another monster movie. I'm sure I'll get one.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's gonna be a monster in it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. The monster is us.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, every time, no matter what.

[Sean Fantasy]

The movie of his that I have always longed for is at the Mountains of Madness, which is a H.P. lovecraft adaptation that he was going to make in the 2000s with Tom Cruise. It is like an epic cosmic horror monster movie that would have been on the same scale as Pacific Rim, but would have been more of a period kind of adventure story that also is not original, but it would have been a little bit outside of the realm of a lot of the stuff that he's been doing in the last few years. I want the best for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do too.

[Sean Fantasy]

I hope he's happy and he shouldn't take any notes from me. He should do whatever he wants. But it's just something that I'm saying that I want.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I do think reason zeroed in on it, which is if we thought of the film more favorably, then the through lines would feel different. It would feel like something that's like part of a scholarly text of it. Like the line from Nightmare Alley to Pinocchio to here, you can see the daddy issues. You can see the interest in investigating like, you know, post war or simultaneous war implications. Like, all that stuff is kind of there in a way that is interesting. And this just feels like to me, between the three of those, like kind of, kind of the relative dud at the end of the line. But there's an arc there that I can see what he's driven by and see what he's interested in. And maybe that arc has closed and now we're onto something new and something interesting in a way that, like, at a certain point in time, Pacific Rim felt like a huge departure. And that like that movie is like as good as that kind of movie as you can make.

[Sean Fantasy]

See, to me, that was like his attempt and success at like a general crowd pleasing blockbuster. I was very impressed. It was like a summer movie and there's big robots and monsters and he's having fun and it was effective. They didn't have the weight of expectation and artistry that comes with a Frankenstein. Just give me five minutes to talk about the Frankenstein movie. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You go, girl.

[Sean Fantasy]

So there have been so many of these kinds of movies over the years and even right now, there is an animated film that I've not seen that is in theaters called Stitch Head, which is just a riff on the Frankenstein story because it's Halloween time. Yeah. In March, Maggie Gyllenhaal's movie the Bride comes out. Christian Bale is playing the monster. Jessie Buckley, moments before grabbing her first Academy Award, will be appearing as the Bride. I think the best Frankenstein movies is pretty consistently usually a boring list because the original whale film and then his follow up, the Bride of Frankenstein are often cited as the best and the most important and are taught in film schools the world over and still work. If you show them to a seven year old, they're still effective, they're still scary, they still have this incredible sense of atmosphere that is undeniable. And then Hammer films from England. The best one I think is the Curse of Frankenstein. New Warner Brothers Archive 4K out there you want to check it out?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Good job. Congratulations.

[Sean Fantasy]

Flesh for Frankenstein. Paul Morrissey's adaptation. I know Rob's seen it. He's a fan. It's really good. It's sort of a double Frankenstein story. A man and a woman are simultaneously revived.

[Rob Mahoney]

This movie could have used a little more flesh for Frankenstein. You have to let the monster and Victor be depraved. You like, the best way, Amanda, to harness the lightning is to let the freak flag fly. Like, you got to really raise it up there and let these guys be weirder. And weirdly enough, for a Guillermo movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They'Re not weird out during this movie. Yesterday, do you remember there was sort of a frankly disrespectful meme format about five to 10 years ago, when someone would. Would die, a notable person would die. Everyone would treat like so and so taught me how to be weird. And this is sort of like Frankenstein taught me how to be weird, the movie. Yeah, I did. You know, and there we go. I also just scrolled down on your list, and there's an X Files episode on here. So I'm going to need to.

[Sean Fantasy]

I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, let's just keep it moving.

[Sean Fantasy]

Two quick ones. Depraved is Larry Fessenden's reimagining of this, where a US Soldier who dies is revived. This is a very clever take on it. I did watch Mary Shelley's Frankenstein this morning. The Kenneth Branagh adaptation with Robert De Niro as the monster. A fascinating piece of movie history because the script that Frank Darabont wrote for that before he went on to make the Shawshank Redemption is considered one of the great movie scripts and one of the great adaptations in movie history. And Kenneth Branagh kind of fucked it. And Guillermo del Toro himself said, I read that script, and that made me want to make Frank's movie. His vision for the movie, the version that we got is way operatic and crazy, and Branagh is like, shirtless through half of it and is, like, really showing off those abs. Not a successful movie. Interesting movie.

[Rob Mahoney]

The list of movies that Kenneth Branagh kind of fucked is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, I mean, this is getting. This is like right during the Emma Thompson, Helen Bonham Carter of it all. It's not what you want.

[Sean Fantasy]

Helen Bottom Carter featured prominently in Frankenstein.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can't imagine why.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay. To me, Frankenstein is better for the. Inspired by movies. So very quickly, a list. Edward Scissorhanes is Frankenstein. The spirit of the Beehive, the great Spanish film, is all about young kids seeing Frankenstein and then being changed forever. RoboCop is Frankenstein. The Rocky Horror Picture show is Frankenstein. Phantom of the Paradise. De Palma's movie. Frankenstein, Reanimator. One of the greatest horror movies ever. Frankenstein, Poor things. Just came out recently. Definitely. Frankenstein, Gods and Monsters, the biopic about James Whale. Frankenstein, Gothic, the Ken Russell movie about a bunch of horror writers getting together and scaring each other. Frankenstein, the X Files, the postmodern Prometheus. One of the best episodes of the X Files. I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a legendary episode.

[Sean Fantasy]

Black and white episode, super funny. Features tons of riffs from the whale movie. Yes, really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's like, what if there were a version of Frankenstein that were obsessed with Cher and could you save him by taking him to see Cher live? That's the textual plot of the episode.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I appreciate that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

Frankenstein is also ripe for comedy. Young Frankenstein, the Mel Brooks movie, one of the funniest movies ever made.

[Rob Mahoney]

Frankenstein. But okay.

[Sean Fantasy]

Frankenstein. Thank you, you. Frankenhooker. Have you seen that, Amanda?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, but you have talked about it many times.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's about a prostitute who is killed in a lawnmower accident and then revived.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why are you talking about this so many times?

[Sean Fantasy]

It's an interesting film. Weird science. Also kind of in the Frankenhooker zone. Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Knox and I have seen this. Yeah, because they were showing it in, like an Academy museum.

[Sean Fantasy]

Was he scared of early morning?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, he was laughing. He like. He picked up on the funniest.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's funny. I think it was last year, so it was before he had learned that things were scary. Yes, we're going to do that now, too. But no, loved it. It was great.

[Sean Fantasy]

And Tim Burton, again, Frankenweenie is a very overt riff on this. Frankenstein is forever, this Frankenstein. We'll see. We'll see. So let's talk about Die, My Love, which is. Is it a movie about monsters, Amanda, I ask you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a movie about the process of creation and creating a life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Undoubtedly.

[Sean Fantasy]

Absolutely true. We have inadvertently, thematically nailed this episode. So this is the new film from Lynn Ramsey. It stars Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Pattinson, Lakeith Stanfield, Nick Nolte, Sissy Spacek. Perhaps you've heard of those actors. It is about a young couple who moved from New York to Montana. I guess they're in search of a quieter life. They are about to be parents. Are they parents already when they arrive?

[Rob Mahoney]

Flickering across the spectrum.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think she might be pregnant, but, you know, things are not really communicated in a. They're literal, but plot details are sparse.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes. This is not a traditional literal narrative film. It is very much a film about experience. And in the. We see the relationship between this couple, they have a child, and then everything that unfurls from there. So I will start with you, Amanda.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much.

[Sean Fantasy]

What did you think of Dying My Love?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think as we near the end of the year, that this is one of my favorite movies of the year. It is catered directly to me. In fact, I saw a woman outside of a different screening. Jack and I ran into each other after I saw Die My Love, and he was there for something else. And someone overheard, hey, I just heard you saw Die My Love. And I. What'd you think? And I said, I loved it. But I am also 11 months postpartum at this moment. Hilariously, I also went on a date with my husband. So we were sitting there watching this couple in a very serious, similar and serious phase of life go through these experiences. And I have a pretty fraught relationship with, like, mom culture. Not just mom movies, but mom books and mom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, mom emails.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, just like mommy emails.

[Sean Fantasy]

Mama, can I just tell you. Yeah, hang in there, Mom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But not even just the, like, you got this mama bullshit, but, like, there have been a lot of novels and, like, quote, unquote attempts at, like, high art to talk about what it is to be a mother. And I seldom connect. That's probably a me thing. I'm not a joiner. But it just. They don't. Well, they speak to someone else's experiences, not to mine. And for everything that is, like, similar about a large percentage of this world population, everybody has a different experience. This spoke to me. This is about. It is about the weird and terrifying experience of postpartum. It is about depression. It is about postpartum depression. It's like, you know, it. It is the thing separate and apart. And I think if you've experienced one, you'll relate to some of it. If you've experienced both, you'll relate to it more. But. But I found the, like, the vignettes and the presentation of this phase of life and, like, new life essentially to be just so accurate of all of the emotions and just wildly weird, dissociative, isolating feelings that go on in this moment. I found it, like, very funny. Both my husband and I were, like, laughing a lot and, like, shout out to him. Him for going and being like, yeah, that was good. Because Robert Pattinson is portrayed just like a really, you know, he's basically not there. And that's part of the thing. And I think he does a great job in it. But so I thought it was like, I. I'll stop talking. Did you guys like it?

[Sean Fantasy]

I'll let you go, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

I spent most of this movie wanting to throw up. And I loved it. Loved every second of it. I mean, it's like, it is very my shit in that experiential, like, impressionistic kind of way. And I think he gets at something like, it's so weird that this. And if I had legs, I'd kick you are coming out so close together because they're both kind of reaching for something similar, both really effectively. But it gets into this, like, very primal thing that, like, there's a part of all of us that is hanging the wallpaper and baking the cake and trying to participate in society. And then there is the voice at the back of your head that just is telling you to run into the woods and never look back. And my understanding again, very secondhand, is that postpartum mothers maybe experience that, like, more acutely than basically anyone else.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so, like, turning that into this very visceral feeling over the course of this movie is just overwhelmingly effective.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, I think it's a pretty great movie. It's very much in the tradition of. Of all of Lynne Ramsey's movies, which are about these experiences of, like, profound alienation and feeling completely disconnected and unable to really, like, be seen and understood. Right. Jennifer Lawrence's character in this movie is experiencing something that millions of mothers experience. But that feeling is like, why can't anyone understand how I feel right now? And why won't they accept how I feel as being normal? And that is a really hard thing to translate into a film. And it's really interesting that. That, you know, you said the Mary Bronstein's movie. This is even in one battle after another. The perfidia Beverly Hills character expresses this. And there have been a lot of movies about the challenges of motherhood. What was the Amy Adams film that we talked about on the show? Nightbitch?

[Rob Mahoney]

Impossible to watch this and not think about Night Bitch.

[Sean Fantasy]

I know. Which is, like, so funny.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did not think about Nightbitch once, even though you guys had a great episode.

[Sean Fantasy]

I appreciate that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I did think that Nightbitch portrayed some of the difficulties of having a toddler in, like, a. Like, I've been there and I see it sort of way.

[Sean Fantasy]

But that movie was more about a certain vision of parenting, maybe, than. Because I don't see this movie as entirely about motherhood. I feel like it's much more about the female psychology, like, the expressions of it, because she does spend time mothering her child in the film. But I wouldn't say that that is, like, the thrust. It's much more about the ways in which she is seeking relief from her experiences. Or like. Like. And the movie very complicatedly explores what is like, a desire dream, what is a nightmare, and then what is the practical reality of what is happening to me? And it's not really too worried about you understanding which is which in any given time in the film. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think the implication is that she also doesn't totally know. I mean, I think that it communicates a very specific feeling postpartum, which is that you are, like, physically and emotionally tied to this other thing that was you and that you did create. I mean, it is about the consequences of creation. And now it exists.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's like when your baby looks at you and says, you are the monster. But now it's existing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That day is coming inside of you. But so there's like. There are still physical, like, biological and emotional connections that are. And things that are messing with your head and your body that are, like, of you, but are also completely separate and sort of random and come from nowhere. And so one minute you can be, like, really happy, and then you are very angry, and then you're very stressed out.

[Sean Fantasy]

And then.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then. And you, like, love this baby, but also, like, you feel like you're gonna throw up because you don't know what to do about it. And it really is dissociative. That's the only way that I can describe the experience. And it feels like it is coming from somewhere else. The call is not coming from inside the house, even though it is. And I thought that the disconnected style of this movie and also the very feral physical performances really communicate that kind of person who's lost not just in her body, but in the world.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And. And. And. And how much of it is animalistic. Like, it really is so fucked up. The whole experience is.

[Rob Mahoney]

So this is the thing. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I guess it's, like, amazing or whatever. Like, mama, look what you did. But, like, also. I know, but. But it is. It's just. It is really. You feel like you're in a nature documentary.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's not a miracle. You're a miracle.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it just. It. It feels. Feels so. It's. It is really, really bizarre. So I loved it. I found myself a little disappointed when it got more literal.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I mean, this is a person with, like, serious postpartum depression, which is real. And also. Which I had. So, you know, like. And it happens to many people and there's no shame around it. And also, getting help is really good. But I found that once the character, like, is hospitalized and they pin down, like. Like, this is what's going on here. And this is. It's less a statement of fact and more like something to be solved.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which I guess, like, is. That's what we want in life, you know? And, like, that's what's good for the character. And I guess is maybe the only, like, story arc that's possible, you know, but. And I guess it's a movie, so it has to have a story, but it does it.

[Sean Fantasy]

Like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that's true. I don't think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I struggled with that a little bit, too, just because I feel like it breaks the spell of the movie a little. Like, it does ground it in a way that isn't just, like, uncomfortable, but I feel like it's just kind of spinning its wheels until we can get back to the experiential bits. I get why it happens logically. Like, I'm sure there are some audiences who would just watch this and think, like, why aren't you checking this woman in somewhere?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think the movie actually does a good job of that through the lens of Robert Pattinson's character, where, yeah, that guy is, like, feckless and absent and interesting in a way that some of the other analogs in some of these other movies about parenthood, the husbands are not. So, like, there's something there. And there are scenes, genuinely, where it's like, my wife just ran headfirst through a glass door. Like, what am I supposed to do? In a way that is understandable. And yet I just don't want to see the hospital sequence. I just want to stay with Jennifer Lawrence because, like, everything she's doing in this movie is electric.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah. I definitely want to talk about her and what she brings to this movie. That the thing that you're saying, which is, like, this movie's attempt to kind of wrangle itself into a narrative film, is a real challenge. There is. We were talking about Frankenstein. There's another 19th century piece of literature that this reminded me of. The Yellow Wallpaper. I'm sure you've read it, that is also very much about kind of like, female alienation, loneliness and mania. The Bell Jar is about this. Like, there's other. And it's hard to make those stories cinematic. Because they're taking place in someone's mind. Mind. And this movie I think probably gets about as close as you possibly can because it H. Lynne Ramsey creates these series of surrealist images of what may or may not be happening inside of this person's head, which is largely effective. We don't know like our empathy is with Lawrence, but she's also doing things that we're just like, why did you do that? And it makes the movie like hard. It's not on a track. It's an experience. And it's not if you sit down and if people are listening to this show and they're like, oh, new Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Pattinson movie. It's like, reset your expectations for what you're going to witness. And I think if you're a mother or parent or child who has some empathy for this experience, you'll understand it a little bit better. But it is an audacious piece of filmmaking. The story is, is that Martin Scorsese read this book in a book club and he thought Jennifer Lawrence should play this woman. Which is an interesting thing to think.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Isn't she also in the book club?

[Sean Fantasy]

I don't think so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, she's not. I thought that they were in the book club together.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think she was contacted by him and said. He said, I just read this book and I think you should do this. And her production company optioned the book and I'm just gonna. I gave away some of this when we talked about no hard feelings a couple years ago, but I've not done a 180 on a performer so dramatically like probably in my life. In 2015, 14, 13 when she was winning Academy Awards and was the toast of Hollywood. I was very vocally like, this girl is a bumpkin. This performance style is no good. This is not interesting to me at all. This is the most affected. Older men putting a 22 year old in a position and not protecting her and letting her just be frivolous and weak. I was pretty mean spirited about it. I don't feel good about that. But I do think that she has transformed herself into an amazing and fearless actor and she takes parts now. We talked about this with Emma Stone last week on the show. She too is now like, I made the Hunger Games. Like, I'm good. It's time to try something that is significantly more audacious and bold. And she's really great in this movie. And I did not know this until I listened to her on the New York Times interview podcast that she was pregnant while she Made this film unbelievable. Which is quite crazy, I could tell.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But that's only because, I mean. Cause she is like extremely naked. And it was more about the breastfeeding scene where I was just kind of like, what's going on here? And how is this physically possible? And then I was like, oh, that must be. But she, I mean, she's just like. She is quite literally tits out, but not in a sexual way, in a this is. Is like my body is leaking sort of way. And I loved it. She's. It's. There was an Emma Stone quote in the New Yorker piece that I think the Martin Scorsese anecdote comes from. And it's like there's a old theater nadage. If an actor is on stage with a cat, who are you going to watch, the actor or the cat? The audience would watch the cat, Stone explained, because it's going to respond genuinely in the moment while the actors are still acting. It's that quality. Jen's the cat, I think. I mean, you know, Emma Stone is very good at giving quotes about the nature of acting and other things. But like that is true. She just turns on or like turns off her Jennifer Lawrence and is in the moment of wherever she is in a way that is astounding if you.

[Sean Fantasy]

Listen to her talk on this. Well, first of all, Jen's the cat. Certainly recalls Bill Simmons, Paul George as a cat.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure, yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

Paul George and Jennifer Lawrence, two 34 year olds who are transforming their identity every day.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's in the garage.

[Sean Fantasy]

Have a lot in common. It was a great moment. Don't know where to go from there. Pick me up. Where am I supposed to go?

[Rob Mahoney]

How about this? I'm going to go from cat to dog. A dog plays a very prominent part in this movie. I will say. There is a perspective shot moment in which it is not exactly clear who Jennifer Lawrence is pointing a gun at. And the physical discomfort in my theater at the prospect that she could be pointing it at this dog, I think taps into some of the power of this movie. Like there is a very feral place that this movie takes you to. There is a place that is kind of like not judgmental of Jennifer Lawrence's character, but is making you actively question everything about her. It's completely ugly and it's like I don't even know that she's like losing her grip so much as her grip on like the person that she thinks she's supposed to be. And so it's like, it's this very fine line. It's like the Whole movie's on that razor's edge of challenging you to stay there with it. And it's so good at keeping you there to the point that if you played, hey, Mickey for me in this room right now, I might have a nervous breakdown. So it's like there's just like a Pavlovian thing that happens with this movie that is just incredible.

[Sean Fantasy]

Some very good needle drops in this film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Him showing up with the dog is really, really. I like this husband character in the recent history of unhelpful husbands and absent husbands, which if I had legs, I'd kick you also does very well.

[Sean Fantasy]

We never talked about the reveal of who that husband is also in that movie, which is quite good. I don't want to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen that movie yet.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's doing less. Like, Jackson, in some ways is absent and in some ways is trying and I don't think is very good at it.

[Sean Fantasy]

I think.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I mean, he never show up with a surprise dog is just like a free marriage. Advice from me to you. But some of it is that he can't get in to help her either. Right. And so he is presented not as, you know, an outdated father or someone who is like, checked out, but that there is like. Like a barrier between what's going on with her and what's going on with everyone else. And though he would like to help, he just, like, can't.

[Sean Fantasy]

He has no idea how to access, how to make her feel better or. Yeah, it's tricky, right, because the film also. I don't know if you could call the character an unreliable narrator, but we don't actually know what's happening. So, like, in her mind, she's imagining that maybe he's being unfaithful, but we don't know if that's just the manifestation of her feelings of doubt and like low self esteem or is it actually something that's really happening in the text of the story and the movie resists? I think that the neatness, you know, because it's a time in your life when nothing is neat. Right. Every day you're like, fuck, I don't know what I'm doing.

[Rob Mahoney]

It also doesn't matter. If her decision making and actions are being driven by that fear, then the fear is real. Right. That's the reality of her situation.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's a very interesting, accomplished movie. I think it's also pretty smart about who your parents are and what's going on with them. Nick Nolte and Sissy Spacek and them as manifestations of their sons foibles. And then what you're passing down to your children is something I think about all the time. It is like a constant obsession of mine and me thinking about what my parents have given me and how I'm passing it on to another person.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's your Frankenstein coming out.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah, well, you know, I'm trying to not literalize it. I'm not trying to be the monster.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think you're passing to this podcast? Like, this is your baby too.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's true. Hopefully thoughtful takes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah. A dollop of sincerity, some stern authority at times, a talking to.

[Rob Mahoney]

You'll tell a young Jennifer Lawrence that's not what you should be doing.

[Sean Fantasy]

Discipline. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. This is a really interesting film. So this film was picked up at the Cannes Film Festival for quite a large sum by Mubi. I saw. The most recent trailer for this movie is pitched as from the studio that brought you the substance, which feels like maybe not the best way to sell the movie because it's not entirely in the same register, but it does have some thematic cores that are similar. And they're releasing this movie wide. We're talking about it now in detail because it's going in like, 2,800 theaters. That's pretty bold for what I would call basically an experimental film starring two of the biggest movie stars on earth. And I don't know, I don't think a movie like this is gonna make a lot of money, but that doesn't really matter.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not concerned with it. Ultimately, I think the appeal of it being that wide is Jennifer Lawrence's giving not just one of the best performances of her career, but of this year, full stop.

[Sean Fantasy]

Like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, this is. This is an arresting display that I think will catch you and catch you off guard in so many ways. And, like, if you could say one. If I would say one negative thing about this movie, it's that it is kind of the one note. Right? Like, we're in this state of chaos perpetually. But everything that she's doing is so surprising and keeps you on the edge of your seat to the point where, like, I don't even care if that's the one note. Like, just keep giving it to me over and over, and I will live in this place because she's demanding that I pay full attention to every movement of her body.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, this is a Lynne Ramsey film about postpartum depression shot in a impressionistic style. You know, it's like. It is true that the People who go to the movie theater because Katniss Everdeen and what's his name. This is like our fifth Twilight reference of this podcast.

[Sean Fantasy]

Edward.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, Edward. Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

Edward Cullen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that number one on the big countdown? Is it gonna be one of the Twilight.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Were those this century? I guess they were.

[Rob Mahoney]

They gotta be.

[Sean Fantasy]

They certainly were.

[Rob Mahoney]

For sure.

[Sean Fantasy]

You just spoiled Saturday's live show. You.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That'd be so awesome.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's new moon, right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna say Breaking dawn when Dakota Fanning shows up as one of the Volturi. And then that baby Renesmee. Never forget.

[Sean Fantasy]

One of the great achievements was Renesmee in Die My Love. I forget who played the baby. Could have been. I think it was Renesmee. Let's do best actress quickly. Since we were talking best supporting actress or supporting actor, I should say so. Jesse Buckley is. Is currently leading the Heisman race.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Another mom.

[Sean Fantasy]

Another mom. Renata Renv in Sentimental Value. Another story about your parents. You up?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fantasy]

Rose Byrne. If I had legs, I'd kick you. Wonderful. Cynthia Rivo in Wicked for good. She is, of course, mother. And Amanda Seyfried in the Testament of Emily. Also mother. Plus you've got Chase Infinity. Plus you've got Emma Stone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Whatever. We won't get into spoilers.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay. And I guess you've got Kate Hudson in Song Song. Blue movie I haven't seen. And Sydney Sweeney and Christie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Everyone's trying for Kate Hudson. I think that'll be like a very nice Golden Globes red carpet.

[Sean Fantasy]

You know, she will be nominated for musical or comedy for sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Maybe they'll let her perform. And I think that's fine.

[Sean Fantasy]

You think Jennifer Lawrence is getting in for this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't, and I wish she were. No, I think. I think that Rose Byrne and Jesse Buckley are gonna, like, lead the mom contingent. And I would pick this over Emma Stone in Begonia, but I don't think voters will. I think it's just a little small. It didn't have a great reception at Cannes, even though it was, you know, picked up. And I do think it's the best performance of her career, definitely since month. And I'm really excited once all the mommy movies come out for us to have, you know, moms versus dads. I mean, this episode was it a little bit. And it is. I just.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who do you feel like is winning?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just think men need to get hobbies, you know, because I like.

[Sean Fantasy]

I have an extraordinary hobby.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Isn't that a hobby?

[Sean Fantasy]

One of the great hobbies like you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Guys, actually, you can't create life. And so then you just, you know, you make aliens and, like, create psychological dramas for yourself, and it's, like, not that complicated.

[Sean Fantasy]

What's wrong with that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

There are other things that are way more complicated than, like, oh, did I do a. By making this monster? Will my dad love me now? Like, grow up.

[Rob Mahoney]

You want 15 minutes in this movie of Robert Pattinson like, playing pickleball? That would have solved it. Everything's fixed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

How do we know that he's not.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it's a fair point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's got a lot of land.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's off camera a lot.

[Sean Fantasy]

It's so funny because before I had a child, I did have a hobby. It was called drinking. And I drank all the time, and I don't really drink that much anymore. So, you know, I've replaced one hobby we with life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's beautiful.

[Sean Fantasy]

That's what it's all about, truly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you're holding it together so well, you know?

[Sean Fantasy]

What do you mean? I feel that I gave a sterling performance today in the act of movie podcasting. Hey, Rob Mahoney, you're the man. Where can we find you?

[Rob Mahoney]

You can find me on the Ringer NBA show every week. You can find me on the Prestige TV podcast most weeks, including we got Pluribus coming up. There's a lot happening.

[Sean Fantasy]

I heard. This is good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What is Pluribus?

[Rob Mahoney]

A show that, according to Joanna Robinson, is one of the best pilots she's ever seen that I still need to watch.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do you know the Log?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't, but it is a mystery type show. I am unconsciously trying to avoid Vince.

[Sean Fantasy]

Gilligan's new show starring Rhea Seehorn from Better Call Saul.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a better pitch.

[Sean Fantasy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. I'm gonna watch the Emma Thompson detective series instead.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that's. I mean, it also seems very worth your time.

[Sean Fantasy]

Okay, well, thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Next week, C.R. and I are going to the badlands, where we're gonna be talking about Predator. The Predator movies. Whatever's going on in England with him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is Chris gonna be on your back?

[Sean Fantasy]

Cut in half like an Android. That is how I think of us all the time. Time. Thank you, guys. We'll see you soon.