‘Hot Frosty’ and ‘Moana 2’: What Even Are Movies?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Picture – ‘Hot Frosty’ and ‘Moana 2’: What Even Are Movies?

Episode Information:

• Title: The Big Picture
• Host/Author: The Ringer
• Description: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins review the movies you need to see. Plus: Top 5s, Movie Drafts, Oscars analysis, and more, featuring a rotating cast of Ringer colleagues like Chris Ryan, Van Lathan, and Bill Simmons.
• Episode Title: ‘Hot Frosty’ and ‘Moana 2’: What Even Are Movies?
• Release Date: November 27, 2024

---

Introduction and Guests [01:36 - 02:32]

Sean Fennessey kicks off the episode by introducing the central theme: exploring the distinct cinematic experiences of two contrasting films released in 2024—"Hot Frosty" and "Moana 2." Joining him are returning host Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs that Explain the 90s, and first-time guest Yossi Salek, host of Bandsplain.

Review of "Hot Frosty" [03:01 - 12:32]

The conversation delves into "Hot Frosty," a new holiday film available on Netflix, praised for its self-aware humor and unique take on the Christmas movie genre.

• Plot Overview: The movie centers on a widow who brings a magical snowman to life to combat her loneliness. Surprisingly, the snowman, named Jack, turns out to be extraordinarily handsome and charming.

• Performance Highlights:

  • Rob Harvilla praises the film’s comedic elements, particularly a Steely Dan moment:

    “The Steely Dan moment in this movie... is one of the loveliest and most hilarious things I've seen in a documentary, a music documentary in some time.” [03:13]

  • Yossi Salek appreciates the film's homage to classic holiday movies, noting the inclusion of comedic actors like Craig Robinson, who adds a layer of meta-humor to the narrative.

• Notable Scenes and Easter Eggs:

  • The movie includes multiple nods to other holiday films, enhancing its self-aware charm. For instance, a character mentions Lindsay Lohan, referencing her role in Mean Girls, blending nostalgia with contemporary humor.

• Humorous Moments:

  • Rob shares a lighthearted anecdote after watching the film with his family, highlighting the film's ability to entertain across generations:

    “I enjoyed this movie immensely. I enjoyed it a great deal more than Moana 2.” [12:08]

• Critical Observations:

  • Yossi points out the film's intentional absurdity and its refusal to take itself too seriously, which differentiates it from more formulaic holiday offerings:

    “It's completely deranged... fun. It doesn't pretend to be something it's not.” [10:11]

Review of "Moana 2" [12:32 - 44:16]

Transitioning to "Moana 2," the sequel to Disney’s acclaimed animated film, the hosts express mixed feelings about its execution and cultural implications.

• Plot and Production:

  • The sequel was originally planned as a TV series but was transformed into a theatrical release due to Disney’s shift in strategy towards streaming. Directed by David Derek Jr., Jason Hand, and Dana Le Du Miller, it stars returning voices like Dwayne Johnson and Nicole Scherzinger.

• Reception:

  • Rob criticizes the film’s soundtrack and narrative coherence:

    “I enjoy it a great deal more than Moana 2. They need some spiciness.” [12:08]

  • Yossi highlights the film’s overcomplicated plot and inconsistent character accents, which detract from the overall storytelling:

    “I couldn't follow the plot, there were too many characters. Why do some people have accents and some don't?” [46:07]

• Cultural and Gender Implications:

  • The hosts engage in a deep dive into Disney’s evolving portrayal of female protagonists, discussing how "Moana 2" continues the trend of empowering young women without traditional romantic subplots.

  • Sean raises concerns about the potential societal impacts of these shifts, questioning whether the lack of romance might contribute to cultural changes in relationships:

    “If in 20 years we haven't had a single romance in any Disney animated film, did that affect mating and relationships in our culture?” [59:46]

  • Yossi counters by emphasizing the importance of asking critical questions about gender roles and the portrayal of empowered females in modern cinema.

Comparison and Cultural Analysis [44:16 - 63:47]

The conversation expands to a broader analysis of modern filmmaking trends, particularly Disney’s move towards high-volume, lower-impact sequels versus richly developed original content.

• Disney’s Sequel Strategy:

  • Sean laments the quality decline in Disney’s sequels, noting how "Moana 2" exemplifies a shift from storytelling to market-driven productions.

• Impact on Audiences:

  • While "Hot Frosty" is celebrated for its authenticity and fun approach, "Moana 2" is critiqued for feeling disjointed and adhering too closely to corporate strategies rather than creative storytelling.

• Audience Reception:

  • Rob shares anecdotes about family reactions, illustrating the generational divide in movie appreciation and the challenges of balancing parental expectations with children’s responses to sequels.

Upcoming Movies and Final Thoughts [63:47 - 75:46]

In the latter part of the episode, the hosts briefly touch upon upcoming films they’re excited about, including "Sonic 3," "Wicked," and biopics like "Better Man" and the Bob Dylan film starring Timothée Chalamet.

• Recommendations:

  • Yossi enthusiastically recommends "Hot Frosty" and suggests watching related films like the Princess Switch trilogy and Operation Christmas Drop for fans of the genre.

• Final Remarks:

  • Sean emphasizes the contrasting nature of the discussed films and anticipates continued discussion on upcoming releases, highlighting the evolving landscape of modern cinema.

Interview with Garrett Price on Yacht Rock [75:46 - End]

The episode concludes with an engaging interview with Garrett Price, the filmmaker behind the "Yacht Rock" documentary in the Ringer’s Music Box series, in collaboration with HBO and Max.

• Project Genesis:

  • Garrett explains how the idea for "Yacht Rock" emerged from his work on the web series and his passion for 1970s Los Angeles music, particularly influenced by session musicians like Steve Lukather from Toto.

• Challenges:

  • He shares the hurdles in securing music licensing, particularly with Steely Dan’s Donald Fagen initially resisting the term “Yacht Rock.” After persistent negotiations, Fagen approved the use of his music, recognizing the documentary’s respectful homage.

• Creative Process:

  • Garrett discusses balancing archival footage and interviews, ensuring the documentary remains both informative and entertaining. He highlights the importance of featuring contemporary musicians like Questlove and Thundercat to bridge the past and present influence of Yacht Rock.

• Final Thoughts:

  • The interview wraps up with Garrett expressing pride in his work and excitement about the documentary’s reception, underscoring its potential to resonate with both nostalgic and new audiences.

Notable Quotes:

• Rob Harvilla on "Hot Frosty":

  “I enjoyed this movie immensely. I enjoyed it a great deal more than Moana 2.” [12:08]

• Yossi Salek on "Smoking during a holiday movie":

  “I was so excited. I had two gin and tonics during Hot Frosty...” [12:32]

• Sean Fennessy on Disney's Changing Gender Roles:

  “If in 20 years we haven't had a single romance in any Disney animated film, did that affect mating and relationships in our culture?” [59:46]

• Garrett Price on Yacht Rock Documentary:

  “These guys could play anything... we expose which main huge, massive album they played on in the 80s.” [87:20]

Conclusion

This episode of "The Big Picture" offers a rich and nuanced exploration of two vastly different films—"Hot Frosty" and "Moana 2"—highlighting the evolving nature of modern filmmaking and its cultural implications. Through insightful critiques and engaging discussions, Sean Fennessey and his guests provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of what defines a movie in 2024, blending humor with thoughtful analysis. The episode concludes with an inspiring interview on Yacht Rock, celebrating the legacy and influence of 1970s pop music.

---

Tune in to The Big Picture for more in-depth movie reviews, cultural discussions, and exclusive interviews with industry insiders!

Transcript

[Rob Harvilla]

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Except we did 120 songs and now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J. Lo, Kanye. Sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Colon, the 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now, Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. Cole in the 2000s starting Wednesday, October 2nd, preferably on Spotify.

[Sean Fennessy]

This episode is presented by bank of America Money Decisions. Do they really have to be either or with bank of America? Turns out they can be yes and as in yes to setting up your own home theater and booking a cinema inspired vacation next summer. Our digital tools help you create the future you want and help you keep enjoying today too. Do more with the bank that asks what would you like the power to do? Explore tips and [e-mail] yesend there's no.

[Yossi Salek]

Better feeling than a personal win. And the State Farm Personal Price Plan can help you do just that. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm Sean Fennessy and this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about Moana and Hot Frosty, two very different climates in the vast ecological crisis known as movies in 2024. Later in this episode, something a little bit warmer, I have a conversation with Garrett Price, the filmmaker behind Yacht Rock, a documentary which is the new film in the Ringer's Music Box series with HBO and Max. The movie premieres on the network and the platform on Novemb 29th. I chatted with Garrett about what Yacht Rock actually is and this incredibly fun movie and how he made it. I'm very proud to be a part of this movie and I'm also very proud to have the beautiful father and daughter of the Ringer Music Podcast experience. Here on the show, we've got the host of 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s, Rob Harvilla returning, and for her first appearance ever on the Big Picture, the host of Bandsplain, Yossi Salek. Hi guys.

[Yossi Salek]

You're welcome.

[Rob Harvilla]

Ana, I'm so excited. What can I say? Except you're welcome. I'm so thrilled to be here for Yossi's debut. This is a historic occasion. This has Yalta energy. What's happening right now?

[Yossi Salek]

I'm so thrilled to be here to talk about Moana, too. A gift.

[Sean Fennessy]

I genuinely. Well, we'll get to Moana, too, and why you're here, Yossi. But before we do, you guys saw the Out Rock movie? Yes, we did. What'd you think of that movie?

[Yossi Salek]

Rob, do you want to go first?

[Rob Harvilla]

I thought it was phenomenal, with the caveats that this is a Spotify operation. But, Rob, you don't have to say that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Come on, you're an objective critic, and everyone knows that I'm trying.

[Rob Harvilla]

I am very objective. And the Steely Dan. The Steely Dan moment in this movie, at the end of this movie, is one of the loveliest and most hilarious things I've seen in a documentary, a music documentary in some time. And so I had a blast. Just majestic hair. Just the plumage in this movie alone, just very aspirational for me, personally. I thought it was fantastic. I really did. I dated the hell out, man, and it was fabulous.

[Sean Fennessy]

Your hair is kind of blooming today.

[Rob Harvilla]

It really is appropriate. I am recovering from the worst haircut I have ever received as an adult. I came home and my wife yelped. It was horrifying. I had to do, like, public events with the worst haircut I've ever had as an adult. And so now this is it growing out, and it's asymmetrical. It's like. It's like punk rock over here.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're like a young Steve Lukather from Toto.

[Rob Harvilla]

There is no greater compliment you could pay me. I was going to say a Flock of Seagulls, but I greatly prefer Steve Lukather. Thank you. I'm working on it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yossi, what's your story? You hate Steely Dan?

[Yossi Salek]

I don't hate anybody, Sean. My heart is pure. And you hate steam. That's not an emotion that I contain. I do have, like, a scotch of ptsd. As you know, the first episode of Bansplain ever was Steely Dan, and we did have to record it, like, seven different times to get it right. And is it my cup of tea? No. So I was going into the watching the viewing of this documentary made by my benevolent employers. Just a little. I was a little steeling myself, if you'll allow it. And I had a great time. Against all odds, I even me, I had the best time. I didn't know Toto went so hard. Babe, that was, that was my main takeaway. I was like, toto goes so hard.

[Sean Fennessy]

That is really the big revelation. I actually said that to Garrett. I was like Toto, who knew sold the show. Members of that band playing on 5000 records through the 70s, 80s and 90s. Sweet Lord.

[Yossi Salek]

Good energy, questionable music video. Just like it had everything that you would ever want. I really enjoyed myself. And, you know, I love spaces where women are not welcome. So.

[Rob Harvilla]

That also I find, like music podcasting, for example.

[Yossi Salek]

Like music podcasting. Yacht rock. Yeah, you asked me to come here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I appreciate that Pravda level of cosign from both of you. This is an in house project, but it is a film that I would say is in the spirit of the missions that you guys have had, excavating and spelunking your way through music history so expertly. We're not going to talk about music right off the bat here. The original plan for this episode. Well, I'll tell you, you know, Rob and I have had some conversations as grown men with families about animated films made for children over the years on the pod. Amanda's joined us a couple times for those conversations. They're always heartful, you know, sincere, deep, maybe a little creepy, but ultimately well meaning. Figured, why not run it back? Moana 2, one of the signature Disney movies of the 21st century. Very highly anticipated film. Then the early words started trickling out on the movie. Hmm. Moana too. This was supposed to be a TV show. Now it's a movie. Is this movie going to be good? Maybe it's not going to be good. It's going to make a lot of money. But do the listeners of the Big Picture really care about this movie? I'm not sure. Then I started thinking, how do we spice up the dad conversation? What agent of change can we bring into this mix? And it dawned on me that. Yossi. Yossi. We were going to talk about the Crow this year on the top, because you love the original Crow film and that soundtrack is, I think, very meaningful, honestly, for the three of us, a bunch of 90s kids. And we had high hopes for the Crow remake reimagining with Bill Skarsgard. That movie stunk, so we didn't even devote an episode to it. I think I spent four minutes on it on one episode in August. And you were traveling the world at that time, so you couldn't join us. And so I figured, why not join us from Moana too? Then saw Moana 2 and I was like, wanted to, ain't it? You know, this is not enough for a full convo. And I had noticed that a little film had been dominating film discourse by the name of Hot Frosty. And I sent you guys a note and I said, I need you both to watch Hot Frosty tonight if you have the time. This was like 7:15pm Rob's time. And Rob's your 9.

[Rob Harvilla]

9Pm Closer to 9. I was walking out of the theater with my children having watched Moana 2.

[Yossi Salek]

Same. Actually.

[Rob Harvilla]

It wasn't 9pm but yeah, it was. It was.

[Sean Fennessy]

You walked out of the theater with Rob's children.

[Rob Harvilla]

I did.

[Yossi Salek]

Kidnapping. I did walk out of the theater with children, if you believe it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did you?

[Sean Fennessy]

So many children at my screening. Holy Lord.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did you get any weird looks at the theater?

[Yossi Salek]

I didn't go alone. I mean, because I'm a journalist, I was like, I need to bring children with me to understand how this is landing for the target audience. So I asked my friend who has multiple children, can we bring some of those? Pick one. I don't care.

[Sean Fennessy]

You seem like such a loving aunt figure in that.

[Yossi Salek]

Actually, I'm very popular with these children and I do love them deeply. But yes, she brought two. One, my love, Leo, who's between seven and eight, and the literal one, Georgia, who I think is about three or four. She was a little. There was like a literal newborn next to us. I do actually really enjoy the chaos. I guess I'm not familiar with it because you are not gonna catch me again in a Disney movie film in the theater day. It comes out, but who cares, right? It's like kids are screaming, kids are yelling, kids are dancing. That part was awesome. And no one's shushing. You can't shush. It's a movie for children. They're not can't get it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sounds like you had a more fun theater going experience than I had.

[Yossi Salek]

I had some drinks. I had some drinks also, so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Well, it seems like you both partook last night and now I regret not having done that because I sent you this note after seeing the movie to watch Hot Frost, Eat Rock, shout out to you at 9pm you went out and watched it. I know.

[Yossi Salek]

Impressive.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm a professional.

[Sean Fennessy]

You really are. I mean, Yasi Aida is a journalist. I'm not sure if you guys are journalists anymore, if I'm being totally honest with you. But you are committed to the cause of cinema.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm a content creator.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's what I've been saying on the show recently. And it's meant to be arch, but it's Actually not.

[Yossi Salek]

It's hurtful is what it is. It's hurtful. Sean, I think it was like literally a Christmas miracle that you sent that message, because I was not feeling good leaving the theater post chicken fingers and some alcohol. And then I got the message and I was like, oh, my God. Hot Frosty. I'm so excited. I've been wanting to watch this film. And I got home and it was like the most beautiful palate cleanser. Like, I went to bed happy. So.

[Sean Fennessy]

So for anyone who is not familiar with the phenomenon that is Hot Frosty, it's a new movie that you can watch on Netflix. It is another in a long line of somewhat cheaply made, certainly absurd, holiday fairy tale style stories that are run out over the course of the final eight weeks of the year across streaming services. You know, Hallmark is probably best known for these films that are often just typical romances. But over the years, Netflix has really stepped in and been really cranking these things out. They started out a little bit more high concept and high budget. You know, the Kurt Russell Santa Claus film, for example, that was like kind of close to a real movie. Hot Frosty, which is directed by Jerry Ciccariti, who is one of my favorite filmmakers and is written by Russell Hainlen.

[Yossi Salek]

He's Canadian. Is he Canadian?

[Sean Fennessy]

He's Canadian.

[Yossi Salek]

Great.

[Sean Fennessy]

That explains. It is quite a fascinating document. It's a movie about a widow who counters her loneliness with a magical snowman who is brought to life. And when he comes to life, it becomes clear that he is fucking hot. He's a very handsome fellow, and he's a fellow who is very eager to spend time with this young widow. This movie is completely deranged. Rob, what did you think of Hot Frosty?

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't want to be crude, but I thought she was going to fuck the snowman. I was told. I was told she was going to fuck the snowman. I told my wife she was going to fuck the snowman, and that is why she agreed to watch it. And when it became clear that she was not going to fuck the snowman, my wife went on her phone, why are you going to show me something if I can't have it? As I believe Kevin Garnett once said, I enjoyed this movie immensely. I enjoyed it a great deal more than Moana 2. I think you will all. But I was fundamentally like, what are we doing here if you're not gonna fuck the snowman?

[Yossi Salek]

I'm so sorry.

[Rob Harvilla]

That would be my first note.

[Yossi Salek]

You were expecting to see Snowman whole Is that what you're saying?

[Rob Harvilla]

That is not what I said.

[Yossi Salek]

You thought you wanted full ice cream, full penetration?

[Rob Harvilla]

That is what I wanted, yes. Yeah.

[Yossi Salek]

Just on the Netflix Christmas Bowl.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm not asking for porn, necessarily, but I am asking for some.

[Yossi Salek]

How many drinks did you have?

[Rob Harvilla]

I had zero drinks at Moana. 2. I had two gin and tonics during Hot Frosty, and I considered an unprecedented third gin and tonic. I cannot recall the last time I had three. I was curious what would happen and how that would affect my perception of this movie. I don't know if she had fucked a snowman, if that would have made me more likely or less likely to drink the third gin and tonic. I just wanted, like a. I wanted a hint of spiciness. Right. I wanted implied fucking of the snowman.

[Yossi Salek]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, One, Yossi, I'm very eager for your thoughts about this film. 2. I do, Rob, when you talk about having two and yearning for a third but resisting a third gin and tonic, I feel so close to you. Like, it's remarkable, Right? I've been talking about how much less I drink now these days, but sometimes you do need it. I was fearing I have a full day with my beautiful daughter today as soon as we finish recording. And so, because my wife is at home cooking a lovely Thanksgiving dinner. And so it's the idea. Yes, that's right. We are gender essentialists here at the big picture.

[Yossi Salek]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And the idea that I would be recovering from a third gen and tonic is not imaginable to me. So I didn't drink during this film, but, Yossi, look, I didn't even know this about you, but this movie is, like, right in your prime area of movie watching interest. Tell me about it, babe.

[Yossi Salek]

Okay, first of all, not to nitpick, but the. You said the snowman becomes hot when he comes to life. I think we can all agree that the actual snowman was also, like, aggressively anatomically hot from the beginning. Like, it was almost like, who made this? Who made this, like, Adonis snowman in the middle of the regular snowmans for the contest? No, I love every year. I cannot wait for this time of year. And I queue up these films. There's always new ones, but I also always rewatch the old ones. And it's maybe one of my favorite film genres.

[Sean Fennessy]

So why?

[Yossi Salek]

There's just, like, a level of delight that they bring about in me. They're not trying to be anything. They're not, you know, they're really just giving it to you straight, which is Here is often an insane conceit. Every conceit is insane. They do not operate within the world of reason or physics. Those things don't matter. What matters is the Christmas spirit. And it's so fun. And I think, I mean I'm sure we'll talk about it but like you mentioned the Hallmark ones. I think they did probably start out kind of earnest. Right. But what's happened, and it's amazing is that like now they're just winking at themselves all the time, which is so fun. It's so fun to watch. Like I live for it. I fucking live for it. Give me. Inject it directly into my veins is what I have to say.

[Rob Harvilla]

What's the best one? What is the apex mount of self aware Christmas movies?

[Yossi Salek]

I think the one that I always come back to is the Princess Switch trilogy. That's the Vanessa Hudgens, I think Vanessa Hudgens, Lacey Chabert, who we'll talk about who's in Hot Frosty and Lohan's kind of gunning for their, for their positions. These are the top queens of the holiday film. But the Princess Switch one through three are truly each conceit because the godfather of the two.

[D]

That's right.

[Yossi Salek]

To get to the third one when you already have the most insane proposition for the first one, Chef's guess what you have to come up with for them to have a third switch of people. So good.

[Sean Fennessy]

So as you might imagine, I don't have as much experience with you, Yossi, with these movies. No, I'll pop in on a phenomenon here and then. But you know, the Princess Switch for example, to me that's up there with the kind of like the lesser known Keeslowski movies. Like I'll get around to it eventually but it's not high on the same watch list. And so I'm wondering like you pointed out, what I think is the most amusing and maybe important thing about Hot Frosty, which is this high degree of self awareness of winking at the audience of the acknowledgement that even by the standards of silly streaming Christmas movies this premise is fucking weird and makes no sense. Maybe even a little upsetting if you really drill down on it. And so like are these are the other movies as knowing about the absurdity of what they're presenting to the audience?

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, I think so. Like a lot of them will have like little winks to other holiday movies in them. This one actually has two in it which we can talk about. I don't know if you guys caught those Easter eggs, but some of them aren't. Some of them are just like, I need you to get on board. Suspend your fucking disbelief, babe. It's Christmas. And you're like, yes, I will. Thank you. Take me away, Calgon. Take me away.

[Sean Fennessy]

So by the standards of these movies, where does Hot Frosty stack up? Like a tier B tier?

[Yossi Salek]

Hot Frosty was so delightful, but also is almost a little too self aware. Not in a bad way, but it almost puts itself outside of the genre a little bit. But then it doesn't. It's so bizarre because I'm like, you cast Lacey Chabert, who plays it exactly like she plays every other holiday movie, which literally seems like she learned the lines yesterday and is coming in, like, to cash the check and like. And it's not her fault. Every heroine in these movies is like aggressively earnest and doesn't really have a lot to do. But then you stick in these, right? Like comedic actors. Like, you have the guy from the state. You have the woman from Joe Lotrulio. Joe Lotrulio. Katie. Is that her name? Katie Mixon. The woman from Eastbound Down. So funny. And the Hot snowman was the himbo veterinarian on Schitt's Creek. And now he's the himbo snowman.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Dustin Milligan.

[Yossi Salek]

And of course, is the actor Craig Robinson, who you might.

[Sean Fennessy]

And Craig Robinson, of course, is the sheriff. So when Craig Robinson shows up as the sheriff of this town in this movie, Rob, I was like, oh, okay, right. This movie is kidding. Like, this isn't meant to be a Hallmark film. One of the questions I had for you guys was, is the only person who knows what movie he's in is Craig Robinson? Or is Craig Robinson the only person who doesn't realize what movie he's in? Rob, what do you think?

[Rob Harvilla]

I think he realizes what movie he's in. I think he's in a different movie than everybody else on purpose, until the end into the big climax in which he extorts everyone in the town for $2,000 just to immediately. I guess that's a spoiler. I'm sorry, was this made pre inflation, by the way?

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought that $2,000 number seemed a tad low.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, how do you calibrate what was.

[Yossi Salek]

The snowman's crime that he should have such a high bail in general?

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought it was th.

[Rob Harvilla]

It was Streak. And he broke the very thin pane of glass. You know, it's just. He just. He leaned against it and it broke. I don't think that part was his fault.

[Sean Fennessy]

Vandalism, quite frankly, Public Obscenity, hooliganism. Yeah.

[Yossi Salek]

Did you guys.

[Rob Harvilla]

Raisin a ruckus? Broadly. That's 2,000 bucks right there. At least where I come from.

[Yossi Salek]

It did look like where you come from. This Hope Springs does kind of. It was. It was giving where you come from.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay, so Craig Robinson is the guy in Hot Tub Time Machine who looks at the camera and goes, it's a hot tub time machine. Right. Like, I do. I do source a lot of the self awareness of movies like that to that moment. Right. And there isn't. There isn't a fourth wall break, per se. The one Easter egg. Like they're watching TV and Lindsay Lohan is on tv and she says, I went to high school with her. Like, I rewound that for my wife. Like, I made her watch that part.

[Yossi Salek]

That was Falling for Christmas, by the way, that was on the tv, which is another holiday movie that Lindsay Lohan is in.

[Rob Harvilla]

And because she's in the hospital, I was very concerned for her. She ends up all right in that movie. Right. Because she seemed to be in some distress. Right. I don't know if it's.

[Yossi Salek]

Nobody dies in these movies.

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay. Thank goodness. So there's a self awareness, but I didn't think it reached the point of poisonous. Right. Like, it wasn't meta in a way that irritated me, you know, And I do think that everyone was pretty clear on how absurd this was. But then the moment when they're all together and they start like, the doctor is back, the eastbound and down doctor is back. And they're like, how is. What are the physical. Like, what's happening? And she's like, it's Christmas. Like, literally, it's Christmas. That is my only. That is my diagnosis. It is Christmas time. And everyone's like, that sounds great. And then the movie proceeds from there. I think this movie could have been way more irritating about the meta winking, self aware aspect. And I do think that Craig is just. He's just singing songs, like, in the middle of the movie for no real reason. But, like, I enjoyed it, that aspect of it tremendously, honestly.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, Rob, you kind of got ahead of where I wanted this conversation to go from.

[Rob Harvilla]

I apologize.

[Sean Fennessy]

From a sensual and sexual perspective. I just, you know, on this show, Amanda has a science corner, and Amanda is not here. And so we cannot have Amanda's science corner. But I'm not sure any film short of Dune Part 2 has asked for a science corner more than the film about defrosting the hot snowman.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then, you know, in the Film. Like, Yossi helped me with this in the film. Like, what are even the. What are even the sort of native mythological origins of snowmen?

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not as though he is.

[Yossi Salek]

Do we have any Frosty? Frosty came alive. Frosty the Snowman.

[Sean Fennessy]

But he retained his snowiness. Sure. You know, he was still essentially snow, like, this person takes on human corporeal form.

[Yossi Salek]

Well, you can't be horny for the snowman made of snow. You have to be horny for this flesh and blood man that was previously a snowman.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, that raises another question, which is, is Lacey Chabert even horny for this snowman? Other women in the town are very horny.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, boy.

[Sean Fennessy]

Lauren, Holly. I mean, God bless her. I've never sold my stock ever since she slayed, Babe.

[Yossi Salek]

She slayed.

[Sean Fennessy]

She is just a legend. And she's obviously hot for that snow.

[Yossi Salek]

But there's a whole cougar section. Yeah, she's grieving. You need to.

[Sean Fennessy]

And Katie Mixon, she wants some of the snow. So this guy becomes a man, and he watches a lot of television and he learns how to cook and he learns how to fix things. And I guess he's sort of unfrozen with the knowledge of English as a communicative language.

[Yossi Salek]

That was one of my things where I was like, so you. It was giving a little bit Encino Man. Except Encino man obviously had him not know English. Cause that makes more sense. But he knew English, but no colloquialisms. So he was like an immigrant who had learned English and didn't know what let the cat out of the bag means. You know what I mean? Or lay low. Or the concept of cancer, which I suppose snowmen don't get cancer, but that part, I was like, oh, okay, sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very. A lot of strange choices. And they all start to add, forgive me for doing this, but I wouldn't be myself if I didn't do this. It's like, at a certain point, I'm like, is this a Louis Bunuel movie? Is this Dall? E? Like, there's a surrealism to some of the creative decision making.

[Yossi Salek]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm not horrible.

[Yossi Salek]

I really feel like you're not giving this film enough credit.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I'd like to try. I just. I don't really fully understand. I think maybe all these years of watching all this ip, I'm like, well, how do these pieces fit together? But there's no. There are no pieces, right?

[Yossi Salek]

No, this. The man who wrote this movie, I am obsessed with him. I went and checked out his website and read an interview with him. He clearly. I mean, forgive me if this isn't true, but he seems like just a big ass stoner who was like, wouldn't it be fucking funny if. And then he just took that way too far. But, like, exactly. Far enough. Thank God. It looks like he's also written other Christmas movies. What a dream job. I would love this job where you just come up with. Don't you think?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, totally.

[Yossi Salek]

Can I just nitpick for one? It's really funny. None of that stuff bothered me. It didn't bother me that he's melting, but he won't remove the extremely heavy woolen scarf even though he's hot all the time. What bothered me was that there was a snake plant in. Is that her name? Kathy's home that doesn't have heat. Snake plants are, like, native to zone 9, 10 places, and they actually cannot live in temperatures under 50 degrees. And it was such a robust snake plant. And that was the thing. The only thing that I was like, damn, I would have caught that. I would have put a different plant in here.

[Sean Fennessy]

Rob, did you see that? Like, the real Yossi just popped out.

[Rob Harvilla]

What the hell is a zone 910 plant? What are you talking about, babe?

[Yossi Salek]

This is woman's work gardening, as you might know. And these are the zones where plants grow.

[Rob Harvilla]

What the hell zone? What zone is California 9 and 10?

[Yossi Salek]

That's what I'm saying. Like, this is not a plant that would survive in Hope Springs anywhere.

[Sean Fennessy]

You have, by the way.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, is it? So it's freezing. I mean, it was freezing. It's snowing outside, you know, it's below 50 degrees in that heaterless house. That plant would have been dead is all I'm saying.

[Rob Harvilla]

The guy went to a junior high and just hung out at a junior high for half a movie doing, like, flash mob dances. And your issue is the plant near her house? Okay, all right, sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

I made a very good choice having you both here for this conversation.

[Yossi Salek]

The plant brought no joy and delight. All the other things work to propel the plot forward.

[Sean Fennessy]

Another question for you. What happens when a hot defrosted snowman overheats? Like, does he. Does he die and return to snow form? Does he become water? Does he just become a dead human body? Like, what? Because there's all this suggestion that, like, oh, my God, if he doesn't cool down, if he doesn't get some ice in his system.

[Yossi Salek]

Right?

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, this. What's his name? Jack. Jack.

[Rob Harvilla]

Jack might overtake his Name is Jack.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it's like they keep talking about him, you know, like he's a Ford Tempo or something. Like, I don't really. I didn't get it.

[Yossi Salek]

Well, luckily. What about the line where he was like, I could wake up tomorrow and be a puddle.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. Who among us?

[Yossi Salek]

Chef's kiss. Perfect writing. What about. I'm sorry, excuse me. The Pretty Woman montage.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, boy.

[Yossi Salek]

They paid money to license Pretty Woman. God bless for the shopping montage.

[Rob Harvilla]

Just spitting in his grave with the.

[Yossi Salek]

Snapping of the jewelry box. With the snowman complex. Give her.

[Rob Harvilla]

I rewound that as well.

[Yossi Salek]

10 Oscars, babe. 10 Oscars. I love this so much. That's right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Do you want 10 Oscars for the same category or 10 Oscars spread across?

[Yossi Salek]

All of this film was better than Honora. I'm sorry. I'll say it. I'm the only one brave enough to say it. Honora wishes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Honestly, they have a lot to say to each other. They're indirect. They're very much in conversation.

[Yossi Salek]

It's really true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Have you seen a Nora yet, Rob?

[Rob Harvilla]

I have not, no. If it's gotten to Ohio, I'm not aware of it, and I don't think it has. Yeah, it's weird.

[Yossi Salek]

It hasn't gone to Hot Springs.

[Rob Harvilla]

We're in a Zone 10 movie environment, and movies like Anora cannot thrive here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was thinking about doing Yossi's Oscar's Corner on this episode because you were sharing some fiery.

[Yossi Salek]

Some spicy takes. Yeah, well, we can talk about that later. I do have. Again, I only see four movies a year or so, if you don't count.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Christmas movies before we move on from Hot Fox.

[Yossi Salek]

No, we're not moving on. Because I need to tell you about the other Easter egg you didn't catch.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

What is it?

[Yossi Salek]

The part where she. Kathy, goes, oh, yeah, I think it's about him being a snowman. And she's like, yeah, and I'm the Queen of Cordonia.

[Rob Harvilla]

I wondered about that line.

[Yossi Salek]

That's right. There's a film called Royal Christmas 2014 starring Lacey Chabert, where she does become the Queen of Cordonia. A lot of places they make these fake places. There's one, the one in Princess, which is like, oh, my God, what is it called? Belgravia. A lot of the Christmas films involve people becoming royalty by accident or fate, which is really great.

[Rob Harvilla]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

A few notes on Lacy Chabert. Yes. Obviously, the joke where Lohan appears on screen is a reference to her time in Mean Girls. Interesting year for the Mean Girls. Extended Universe. We had the musical in January and, yeah, it seems like. I don't know, I guess in some respects, Mean Girls is back in the culture. Lacey Chabert, she's got two modes, right? She's got sickly sweet and surprised and. I don't.

[Yossi Salek]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

But actually, can she do any other type of acting?

[Yossi Salek]

She was excellent in Mean Girls. Don't you remember? She was actually really good and really funny and amazing. And I don't understand why she turns that completely off when she does these kinds of films. But again, maybe that's. I think it's a genre consideration. This is like a noir or like a spaghetti western. It has, you know, specific ways that it needs to be. And this is how Lacy was actually playing it, the way it was meant to be.

[Sean Fennessy]

I love it. So you're saying she's like the. You know, like the Telly Savalas. The way he would show up in spaghetti westerns and just be like, that's just Telly Savalas. He's just pretending to be in Italy in a western. But in fact, he's only got one style and we're just along for the ride.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, it's cloyingly sweet, you know, a little pained.

[Sean Fennessy]

I have one really important thing to discuss with you guys that hopefully will open up to a wider conversation, which is the final needle drop of the film. Did you catch that?

[Yossi Salek]

I didn't catch it. You said it was a Coldplay song. What? Coldplay song. I'm Not Hyper.

[Sean Fennessy]

This song is called Feels Like I'm Falling in Love. It's spelled as if it were one word.

[Rob Harvilla]

Ok, sure. Coldplay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I want to talk to you guys a little bit about Coldplay. This song was written by the band and produced by Max Martin.

[Yossi Salek]

Bait and Switch. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

It features something named Zurb. What is Zurb?

[Rob Harvilla]

Zurb. Wasn't he the villain of the Toy Story? Isn't he the guy with, like, the gun?

[Sean Fennessy]

Zerg.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, it's not the villain of the Toy Story.

[Rob Harvilla]

Coldplay will collaborate with anyone at this point. I think, you know, they're just up for anything.

[Sean Fennessy]

So this song was released in October of 2024, and I'll be honest, I haven't spent a lot of time with Coldplay in the last 10 years. I have kind of moved on. There was a time in my life when I would really, really go to bat for Parachutes. You know, I really, really liked Parachutes. There.

[Yossi Salek]

Parachutes is a phenomenal album, and I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like A rush of Blood to the head as well.

[Rob Harvilla]

The second album the scientist come up.

[Sean Fennessy]

To meet me, tell me, those are good albums. And I thought, this is a good band. Are they iterative, duplicative even of some other bands I like? Maybe, but I really like them. I like Chris Martin. Whatever they've been up to since like 2012, I'm mystified by. You know, it's like they're dressed in like carnival outfits and they're making edm and there's like all kind of stuff going on that I don't get. But for whatever reason. And I. I was just, just trolling YouTube the other day and I came across a video starring Ralph Macchio singing a Coldplay song. Are you guys familiar with this?

[Yossi Salek]

No.

[Rob Harvilla]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, you haven't seen this video? You don't know about this?

[Yossi Salek]

It's an official music video by the band Coldplay starring Ralph Macchio.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, the name of the song is the Karate Kid. And are you sure that you just.

[Rob Harvilla]

Didn'T order a cameo where Ralph Macchio sings a fake Coldplay song just for you and you accidentally uploaded it to YouTube? I don't know if this is a real thing. I have to say.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a real thing. I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to find, like, where this song lives. Like, it's not on this, this new Coldplay record.

[Yossi Salek]

It's a real testament to the saturation of online media that this came and went and nobody heard about it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Yossi Salek]

Coldplay, arguably one of the biggest bands guitar rock.

[Sean Fennessy]

I guess it's on the Full Moon edition of the Moon Music album.

[Yossi Salek]

Sure, of course. Who could forget the Full Moon edition of the Moon Music album?

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on here, but I guess Coldplay is back.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't know.

[Yossi Salek]

I wouldn't go that far.

[Rob Harvilla]

No. The song started playing and it's like, is this Coldplay? Like, they didn't get Coldplay?

[Yossi Salek]

You recognize that at the end of this movie?

[Rob Harvilla]

I thought it might be Coldplay. I didn't recognize the song, but I was like, this is. Either they got themselves a fake Coldplay or they threw a million. They spent more money on this song than they did on the whole rest of the movie.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm sorry, you don't think Pretty Woman was extremely expensive to license. That's a very famous song. Probably a little more than. No offense to Chris Martin than the brand new Coldplay song that didn't even have any vocals.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think Coldplay are a little mystified by Coldplay in the last 10 years. So I don't think you're alone there at all, Sean.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I like Chris Martin. Just kind of following his light, you know, he's just like.

[Rob Harvilla]

He certainly is.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm exploring new spaces like Netflix Original Films. Yes. Here are some other songs that are. That appear on in the film. Hot Frosty Toccata and Fugue in D Minor by Johann Sebastian Bach.

[Yossi Salek]

Is that in the public domain?

[Rob Harvilla]

Wait, that's the edm. Is it? Doesn't it say. Doesn't it say when he turns into a real person? Like the caption is like EDM version of Tchaikovsky.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're referring to Tchaikovsky's the Dance of the Sugar Plum.

[Rob Harvilla]

Excuse me. Excuse me.

[Sean Fennessy]

EDM version.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's a different thing. Yes, yes, sorry.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then a bunch of songs that, you know, that you probably only hear while watching Love island, you know, you know how there's like a whole genre of that genre of music? Yossi, talk to me about that.

[Rob Harvilla]

Love is blind.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah, the Love is blind music. What is that?

[Yossi Salek]

Just for like. Oh, actually this is a great moment for me to talk about. Do you guys even mention the Chrishell Stauss cameo?

[Sean Fennessy]

No.

[Yossi Salek]

In the very. From Selling Sunset, a fellow Netflix franchise, It reminds me because that show also has this music where there's just an entire genre of music that is like a factory, a cottage industry of weird EDM music that goes in the background of these reality television programs.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Chrishell sequence is very strange because she's just like in full Chrishell, full beat makeup.

[Yossi Salek]

It's 9am yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

She's there with a small child. It's like, who has time to look like this with a tiny child in New Hope Springs or wherever the fuck they live?

[Yossi Salek]

She has one single line. She never comes back.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, is she the one with the kid in the diner at the beginning? Okay. She's like the chocolate chip pancakes sequence. Right? Okay.

[Yossi Salek]

All right. And then never to be seen again.

[Sean Fennessy]

So hot. Frosty recommend. Yossi.

[Yossi Salek]

10 out of 10. 11 out of 10. Could not recommend more. Will turn your whole world around. And then watch all the princess switches. And then like, if you really want to experiment, watch Operation Christmas Drop where they. It's. It's Cat Graham and it's like a military themed Christmas movie where she goes with like a man in the military. I'm a little hazy on the details because it's been like two years since I've seen it, but there's bringing food and gifts to a small island in Micronesia, and she's a bit of a Scrooge. And by the end, the renewed spirit of Christmas is within her, seeing this beautiful display of charity and love. It's a little colonizer y, but, like, that can take us right into Moana, babe. Honestly, do we want a bridge?

[Rob Harvilla]

What a segue.

[Sean Fennessy]

That was very artful. And I'm loathed to not ride on that flotilla with you. Straight to Moana ii. But honestly, Yossi, you like to joke that you're like, do I fit in here at the ringer, or is this right that my shows are here? And then whatever you've been doing for the last 20 minutes, some of the most ringer shit I've ever heard in my life. Beautiful.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm nothing if not a devoted soldier in the ringer army.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, many people are saying that you too will travel to Micronesia to spread the good word. Let us talk now about Moana too. I had no idea what you would have to contribute. I didn't know any of your thoughts about Disney movies in general. Yossi. I do know a bit about Rob's. And, you know, Rob's, he's got a family. He's got children. And like, when something like this comes up, is Moana 2 still in the household? Is it like an event? Is it something that the kids are aware of and excited about?

[Rob Harvilla]

They're aware of it. Excited about. I don't know. There's like a performative, like, oh, not this. But then when they watch it, they're like, thrilled by it, right?

[Yossi Salek]

Because your sons are. Is it the performativeness? Because your sons are sort of like a little bit older and they're like, sort of growing out of it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, that's right. So my sons are 13 and 11, and then we have a four year old daughter, right? And so we're all in the theater, and whenever a song started in Moana 2, the boys just groaned, you know, like, the 11 year old was just like, this song is terrible. Within like five seconds. And he was right, by the way. But still, like, there is an immediate knee jerk. Performative, like, oh, no, they're singing. One thing I do want to mention, when I walked into the theater, there was a dude walking out of the theater and he said out loud, he's like, I can't believe Wicked was a musical. Nobody told me it was a musical. I had to put on my headphones and drive. I was so. It was the greatest thing in the world to me. He was so mad that Wicked vision was a goal. So Moana, the original Moana, right? Like, that's 2016. Right. And so my kids, the boys are like 8 and 6 or something. And so they're right in the wheelhouse for that. And that's one of the movies we watched where then the soundtrack was constant for the next six months. Right. I would put Encanto in this category. Both Frozens, you know, but like Moana was one of the better soundtracks. Right. Like Shiny, like the Jermaine Clements, you know, Crab Song, the fake. Bowie's a banger, an absolute banger. And so I think, even if they wouldn't have admitted it, I think the boys were excited by the prospect of another movie with bangers like that, even if they have a knee jerk dislike of musicals now. And meanwhile, the four year old is just crawling on the back of the seat in front of us. She's having a completely different experience.

[Sean Fennessy]

So she's not really locked in on the Moana mythology in any way.

[Rob Harvilla]

Not the mythology. She was like, this is really exciting when the movie started. And that was very sweet. And then she started climbing. It is adorable. But then she started climbing on the. I think she was enjoying the movie in her own way. Right. And what I'm curious about is if she's going to request to see it again or to hear the music again. And I'm thinking that she will ask to see the movie. She will be mad that it's not on Disney right now. I don't think she is going to demand the soundtrack like in the minivan, or at least I hope not.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I mean, there's probably some reasons for that. The first Moana film is directed by John Musker and Ron Clements, who are two of the more beloved and successful Disney filmmakers of the last 40 years. I mean, they worked on the Great mouse detective in 1986. They directed the Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules. They've been doing it for a long time. And Moana, as I mentioned, actually on an episode earlier this week when we talked about Wicked, I'm like, this is really as good as it gets, in my opinion, for Disney Animation Studios films. The combination of story, character songs and hummability, repeatability. When you have young kids, these movies are on. Or as Rob said, the soundtracks are on all the time. They can make you absolutely crazy if they're not any good, in my opinion, and I know some people on this panel may disagree. This has songs that are co written by Lin Manuel Miranda. The first film. I think the first film might be. I think it might be his best work. Now, obviously, Hamilton is his biggest work and noisiest Work. And there are in the Heights fans and tick, tick, boom fans. And, you know, he's done a lot of things over the years, but I fucking love those songs from Iwana. And he is not the author of the songs in this new film. And. And Musker and Clements are not back either. This is a new group of people who are making this movie. And significantly, the movie started out as a TV series, and I guess it was going to be a limited series that was going to tell, like, a contained story over, I guess, like, six or eight episodes or something like that. I'm not sure of the details, but they. Disney shifted its strategy after realizing that streaming was a pox on our society that is ruining storytelling. And I'm grateful for that. And honestly, that there's just more money in the hills of theatrical exhibition. So they transform this TV show, which is now directed by David Derek Jr. Jason Hand and Dana Le Du Miller, into a film, a theatrical film. And so, you know, the cast is back. Ao Li Cravallo is back. Dwayne Johnson is back. Nicole Scherzinger is back. Tamora Morris. Like, all of those folks are back. The movie itself, like so many Disney sequels, feels like the same movie that we saw, but with just a little bit more stuff attached to it. Is that a reasonable description of what we saw?

[Rob Harvilla]

It does map pretty cleanly onto the first Moana.

[Sean Fennessy]

Moana needs to go on an adventure across the sea to find a thing that is somewhat indescribable, MacGuffiny. And she needs some help along the way from some new folks who will allow her to become the savior. And then her island and the people of the world will all live in harmony. That's more or less the framework of the story.

[Rob Harvilla]

You nailed it. Right? And then, like, halfway through the movie, it's like, is this a villain? It's like, no, she's just singing a disco song, you know, and it's like, oh, okay. But she's. That the disco song is in the shiny spot. Right. Like, halfway through, we meet, like, a charismatic maybe villain, maybe not. And then we move on to the big storm that we conquer at the end. It's like a Star wars sort of reimagining of the first Moana, basically.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. She's like an envoy to a storm, not so much a real character. So Yossi do the whole thing. Moana, the first film. Lin Manuel Miranda. Moana.

[Rob Harvilla]

Start with Lin Manuel Miranda.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Like, where do you stand on the whole deal?

[Yossi Salek]

Okay, I just need to preface this by saying when you're always like, who is this movie for? This movie is not for me. I don't have children and I don't like musicals. There's, like, three musicals on earth that I enjoy, and the rest of them, it's, like, none of my business. Do you know what I mean?

[Sean Fennessy]

What are the three?

[Yossi Salek]

Grease has a really special place in my heart. Little Shop of Horrors, great film. And the south park one, also great film.

[Sean Fennessy]

One of the best. You will enjoy it. Animated musical feature.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah. And, like, I was wondering if, like, how. Because I won't name names. But a friend of mine did send me a voice memo. I guess he had been listening to a Big Picture episode where you did say Moana was the best musical of all time. And he was, like, incensed.

[Sean Fennessy]

That did not happen. The framework was 21st century. Okay, so tell your friend. Listen closely.

[Yossi Salek]

Listen, pay attention. How much of this is like Stockholm syndrome because you have children who force you to watch and listen to it a million times? Because, for example, I love the Little Mermaid because I was a child and the Little Mermaid came out, and it's deeply meaningful to me and those songs. But I would argue those songs still. Bang. I watched Moana when it came out, not in the theater, and I remember liking it. And then I watched it again to, like, pregame for Moana2. And I was crying, and I found it very emotionally manipulative because I was like, this is not. There's no reason for me to be crying. But I cried a bunch. I think it's good. It was good. It's cute. It's whatever. Moana 2 was awful. It was terrible. I didn't understand what was happening. And I'm an adult person. I mean, I was drinking, so maybe that's something to do with it.

[Sean Fennessy]

What were you drinking, by the way?

[Rob Harvilla]

I was gonna ask.

[Yossi Salek]

I was just having red wines because I knew I had to.

[Sean Fennessy]

In the theater?

[Yossi Salek]

That's right.

[Rob Harvilla]

With the children.

[Yossi Salek]

With the children. They're not my children.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you bring a bottle? What's the situation here?

[Yossi Salek]

No, I went to the Look Cinema in Glendale, Little known. Beautiful cinema where you can recline the seats and they have a full bar menu and food menu. That's how I like to see films.

[Sean Fennessy]

So you had chicken fingers and red wine?

[Rob Harvilla]

Chicken fingers and red wine, that's right.

[Yossi Salek]

Absolutely.

[Sean Fennessy]

Anything else?

[Rob Harvilla]

That'll be $45.

[Yossi Salek]

That was $45. I ate some of the Child Sour Patch Kids.

[Sean Fennessy]

Against their will, or did they offer them to you?

[Yossi Salek]

No, we're friends. He shared. I just couldn't follow the plot, there was too many characters. I was like, why are there so many? I can see it in a TV show that working here not to be like hot frosting made sense. But this doesn't make sense. Why? This was in the first Moana too, but it bothered me more in this one. Why do some people have accents and some don't? Why are you all in the same tribe? Some of you are Australian, and some of you are from New Zealand, and some of you are American. What are you even fucking talking about? What's going on here? And then also, I'm sorry not to, like, put on my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat, but did you not feel that the subliminal messaging of both these films is, like, pro globalism?

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I don't think there is, like, the sort of means of production in capitalistic society that we see represented meaningfully in Moana. So I'm not sure the idea of capitalism maps onto the world of.

[Yossi Salek]

I didn't see capitalism. I said globalism.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, globalism, open border. They only make sense in unison.

[Yossi Salek]

This is a metaphor. They don't have to show commerce to deploy their insidious messages.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's an interesting question. So you think this is sort of a post Clintonian economic text?

[Yossi Salek]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

We need to deregulate Mota Nui so that we can.

[Yossi Salek]

We can't survive without communing with other. With other cultures out there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Our story will end here.

[Yossi Salek]

Our story will end here.

[Rob Harvilla]

Import goods.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah. Also, I'm sorry, they brought all those people, and they also already spoke English.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are you pro tariffs? What's the situation?

[Yossi Salek]

No, no, no. I'm not pro. I'm simply asking questions. I'm simply here to ask questions. Okay. I'm just curious. This.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't think I spent enough time. And honestly, that is the kind of thing I would think hard about. I don't think that's the case for Moana because these societies are relatively primitive. And so in this film, which explores the idea of people beyond Moana's island and the village where she lives, which I thought was kind of a nice concept, I didn't find it offensive or I wasn't confident.

[Yossi Salek]

I was simply trying. I was trying to use your galaxy brain.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do think that in a lot of Disney product, there is this expectation of a kind of global unity. Agreeing upon Disney product as they should.

[Yossi Salek]

To make Disney money.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely an undercurrent of that in a lot of this stuff. I mean, I generally agree the movie's just not Very good. It's disappointing. It wasn't meant to be a movie. And the reason why this episode is titled what Even Is a Movie is because. Because a lot of movies that come along nowadays are just sort of like, this didn't start that way. You know, like, hot Frosty to me feels like it started out as a dare or as a tweet or as like, I wonder if I could conjure this into a meme. And I'm going to make it a feature film for the largest global streaming platform in the history of mankind. And likewise, Moana 2 is like, you know, we don't really need a Moana 2. And back when we were kids. I feel like this is relevant to this conversation. They did make a lot of sequels like this to animate dvd, and they went straight to dvd, and maybe you could catch them on the Disney Channel. But they were not a part of the theatrical presentation of this beautifully codified Disney brand. And I was looking at the list the history of Disney animated features last night because, you know, I'm just a cool, normal guy. And there's a turning point. And that turning point fits narrowly into our coming of age collectively, like amongst the three of us in our ages, which is that you have this second golden age of Disney animated films, which essentially kicks off with the Little Mermaid. And you have Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, the Lion King. And then that leads very clearly into Toy Story and Pixar in 1995. And there were still Disney 2D animation happening at that time. But in 1994, 1995, you get a significant growth in the number of animated movies that this studio starts making. Some of them are straight to dvd. Some of them are like, there would be a new Winnie the Pooh movie that is theatrically released, but it is not the noisy Disney original that is coming out, like Hercules of that year, Tarzan or something like that. And Disney Animation, which in the 1980s, I think only produced five feature films, a very small number in the 90s, goes to 45, like a huge number of movies that they just start cranking out. And so you have to kind of like, discern as a kid, like, well, this is like a real one and a good one, and this is like a junkie one that we'll watch, but we know doesn't really matter that much. And you have to convince your parents to buy it on VHS if you really want to see it. And now we're in the place where the junky thing is now the main course. And Moana 2 is like, one of the big. Will be one of the biggest movies of the year. Which is fascinating and quite sad, honestly.

[Yossi Salek]

Can I say, Sean, to say something nice about Moana too? I don't know if it's nice about Manatu, but when you always ask, who is this for? Right. If it's four children, I'm gonna tell you what. Leo, the seven and a half year old, he loved it. He loved every second of it. He cried. He later said, I'm gonna believe him, believe children. But when Moana was perhaps touch and go there at the end, not to spoil, he said he cried because she came back to life. And they were happy tears. But I think he was crying cause he was very worried. And he loved it. He loved every minute of it. I'm sure for him it was as satisfying as Moana 1 and as satisfying as any other animated film would be. It's. It's for us that we didn't enjoy it. And is it for us? Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, who is this for? Is a complicated question that sometimes I'm interested in having a conversation, sometimes I'm not. Of course I understand that the Moana sequel is for children. So much so that I already have three tickets to go see it again on Friday with my daughter. And the only reason I didn't take her yesterday is because she was in school. And so I'm going to see it again and she's going to see it and I'll be very surprised if she doesn't like I have a heart. I get it.

[Yossi Salek]

And Hei Hei. I'm sorry. Hei Hei is the best part of the movie. And Hei Hei was the best part of Moana1. And I Stan Hei Hei. And I would watch a Hei Hei spinoff.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's interesting.

[Rob Harvilla]

We have a stuffed Hei Hei in this house. I bought my daughter. Yeah. Also, the biggest laugh line in the theater is when Moana was touch and go and my 4 year old blurted out Moana died. And everyone in the theater laughed. So that was the best movie part of the whole movie. She's a very, certainly for me, self aware.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's good movie watching. You were making it seem like she was not paying attention, but she seemed locked in.

[Yossi Salek]

Can I ask you guys a dad question?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, please.

[Yossi Salek]

Okay. So you're both the father of daughters. You're both girl dads.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. You are our daughter. That's right.

[Yossi Salek]

I am your daughter. I'm your eldest daughter. There is this thing that's been made a lot out of in the past. Sean, you could, as a scholar of Disney films, could probably tell me about her, how long it's been. But like, where like Moana1 was very much celebrated for this. Right. Where like, it's a story of a girl who. There's no romance. She's not. There's no Prince Charming, there's no love story. And this has kind of become a thing. Right. It happens. Now, most of these movies don't have what, you know, Hot Frosty has or.

[Sean Fennessy]

There'S no ice penis in the film Moana. That's right.

[Yossi Salek]

Right. But also, all of you know, Snow White, Cinderella, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Do you think that's ultimately good?

[Sean Fennessy]

I have a point of view on it. What do you think, Rob?

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, they make a big deal. There's like an in joke in Moana too about how she's not a princess, but everyone thinks that she is. Maui keeps calling her princess and she keeps being like, I'm not a princess. And Maui says basically to us, but a lot of people think you are. They're making a very big. Out of them not being princesses anymore and them being self. They're strong female characters. Right. And I hadn't thought so much about the no love interest thing, but that's true as well, you know, Like Encanto, I think is my personal favorite, you know, of this era, both for the movie itself and for the songs for the soundtrack, you know. But Mirabel in Encanto, you know, like, has no love interest and like the whole point of her is that she's not special at all, which makes her the most special at all. Right. Like, I. I do think that they are reacting to the classic Disney construction of every female character is a princess who needs to be saved by Prince Charming in some fashion even. Is it Charmed? What's the Tangled?

[Sean Fennessy]

Tangled?

[Rob Harvilla]

The Rapunzel. Yeah, the Rapunzel and mine too. And the Rapunzel sort of myth is sort of strong. She's a much more self sufficient character entangled than she is historically. So I do think that Disney is thinking very, very hard about these things. The question of whether it's a good thing or not, I hadn't thought about it, but what's the argument for it not being a good thing? They're just trying to frame it as like, you don't have to be a princess anymore.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm just two things. I'm always suspicious of the girl bossification of anything.

[Rob Harvilla]

Sure, sure.

[Yossi Salek]

And then also, I understand it at the beginning Because I think it's all there was, was these love stories and the idea that your only value in life is to find love. But given the like, I'm sorry, nobody. People are turning this off, are like this woman. We came here to talk about Moana too. You know, young people are not dating, people are not getting married. It's actually a sociocultural problem that dating and romance is difficult and struggling in society. And I'm not sure, like, if every indoctrination of children removes the idea of love and romance, it's that great. So I don't know. I'm simply posing questions. I'm just here to ask questions about globalization, about gender, about powerful stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

I genuinely appreciate you raising this. And I have spent a lot of time discussing this with my wife for a variety of reasons. One, I think, you know, sure, maybe in maybe 0.06% of the incelification of sad, frustrated men is due to Disney's decision to empower young women to not rely upon the male archetypes that often populated the first 75 years of their films. In my house, we have spent a ton of time in the last 18 months watching huge chunks of the history of Disney animated feature films. My daughter, as I've said many times on the show, is obsessed with Disney princesses. You know, obviously they have, you know, a tractor beam that draws in any girl who is even lightly interested in this world. But in the case of my daughter, she fully loves these films. She loves everything from the earliest, earliest Snow White renditions of these stories, all the way through the modern, independent minded Moana and Encanto. But there is something primal with my daughter, where she is like, I want to get married to a prince. She sees that at the conclusive moments of these films as deeply meaningful. Sleeping Beauty, for example, which is one of the most beautifully made movies of all time, but has this like, so simple and to some extent dumb portrayal of the role of the hero versus the damsel in distress. And our title character having no agency and literally sleeping through the final 30 minutes of the movie, her year of.

[Yossi Salek]

Rest and relaxation, truly, she was.

[Sean Fennessy]

She was ahead of the curve, and she was not even coping with modern technology.

[Yossi Salek]

Rest is feminine, it's true, but.

[Sean Fennessy]

So my point is, by saying all that is that what it becomes in our house is a balance. It means that you can watch Sleeping Beauty and you can watch Moana, and you can have both. You can see an independent female warrior who saves her tribe without the necessity of longing for a man or a woman or whomever Else. And you can also still love Sleeping Beauty. And you can. I think having them both and what it feels like what Disney is doing is in some ways correcting and arguably overcorrecting on a long history of these oversimplified gender expectations.

[Yossi Salek]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

If in 20 years we haven't had a single romance in any Disney animated film, then I think it's more than reasonable to be like, hmm, Did Disney depressurize romance for young kids across the country and across the world? And did that have a deleterious effect on mating and relationships in our culture? I. It's definitely possible. I don't know.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm just here to ask questions. Listen, I love your approach. Ladies is pimps, too. That's what you're teaching your daughter. And I think that's wonderful.

[Sean Fennessy]

She has one of those, like, little letter puzzle piece things that says, ladies as pimps.

[Yossi Salek]

Ladies as pimps, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Yossi Salek]

I just. I just find it interesting because I think fairy tales, and then we don't have to get into the whole thing of these are fairy tales that were adapted, that were the darkness was cut off, but also are archetypal. Right. That's why your daughter reacts so strongly. Because human archetypes are in the collective unconscious. They're beyond learned. And the archetype of the princess is so strong. It's the divine feminine. Right. And it has a lot of value. And I think that gets swept under the rug when it's like, dumbed down to fourth wave girl boss feminism. To be like, you can be a boss, actually.

[Sean Fennessy]

But I don't think that Moana. Moana, to me is like, I'm not sure Moana is Athena, is Artemisia. Like, that's like Greek and Roman mythology where it's like, there's a woman who is the most powerful person in all the land. That's wonderful.

[Yossi Salek]

And she's a demigod. And she's also displays divine feminine qualities in her caring for the collective and her nurturing, which is the divine feminine.

[Rob Harvilla]

But I did wonder if she was supposed to be if the goofy dude who worships Maui. I thought, are they gonna get together? Like, what is the actual endgame? This all makes me think about Frozen as well. Like, isn't there a lot of discourse about Elsa? Right. And I think the sort of expansion there is. Is Elsa gay? It seems isn't. There's a Saturday Night Live of skit about that. I think about the idea if they're going to use Frozen to break that.

[Yossi Salek]

Wall to soft launch the first.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do not think in this phase of American history that is going to happen. No, I think Frozen 3 comes out in 2027, which would be still in the midst of this new administration. So I don't.

[Rob Harvilla]

Outside is going to be happening, you know. Yeah. Elsa is going to be in Trump's cabinet, you know, and it's going to dismantle the epa. You know, I think that's. That's probably the plot of Frozen 3.

[Sean Fennessy]

It kind of checks out. When you think about her at her most rageful, you know, she's like, there you go. Cover this land in ice.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's busting dams and whatnot. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

You managed to circle the square. Because I think, what if we dropped Elsa into hot frosty 2? I think there's. That could be. And she comes in and she wants to break up Jack and Lacy Chabert. Right. And she's like, I know about ice and I know how to get down with you. You know, it's like the old question about whether or not Lois Lane could handle Superman's, you know, superpower.

[Yossi Salek]

Sean, he's a human now, babe. It's over the snow, remember? His temperature is normal. She kissed him.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why did he become a human? Is that what it did? That's all she had to do.

[Yossi Salek]

That was a little bit of a Sleeping Beauty nod. No, I believe it was.

[Rob Harvilla]

It was very funny that he died and everyone just turned away from him. Come on, let's go let the sheriff handle the dead body on Christmas Eve.

[Yossi Salek]

Nobody brought up the acab of it all. Like the anti carceral state. That was clearly like a theme of this film.

[Rob Harvilla]

Hope Springs is going to defund the fuck out of the police.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm just saying that wasn't by accident.

[Rob Harvilla]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

You guys really didn't disappoint today. Genuinely your most cracked. I'm so thankful for you both. Any. Like what? What else do we need to say? Like Moana and Hot Frosty, they're barely movies and yet they're going to end up being like two of the most watched movies in American society in 2024.

[Yossi Salek]

Hot Frosty is fab and you will not regret watching it. It's fun. It doesn't pretend to be something it's not. And I think that's the difference between that and Moana too. That's my two cents.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think that's right. And I don't think Moana 2 is gonna click in this household in terms of the soundtrack being ubiquitous for the next six months. I think the songs are trash, man. And I remember walking out of Frozen 2 and thinking the songs were trash. And then the kids wanted to hear it constantly. And I ended up vibing very hard in the end with a Frozen. Like, it came around for me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not a fan of Frozen 2 personally.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, the movie, no. But the soundtrack I really did, I really would put on the same level as Frozen. But there is no chance of that happening between Moana and Moana.

[Yossi Salek]

I just like, what was going on. He was rapping at some point. There was just like so much that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's Maui's way.

[Yossi Salek]

I know.

[Rob Harvilla]

That is Maui's.

[Yossi Salek]

It's like a lot.

[D]

There was.

[Yossi Salek]

And what was he even saying? Like, what was he on about? Like, in that song, you know, like.

[Sean Fennessy]

He was trying to pump up Moana.

[Rob Harvilla]

That was the girl boss. The girl bossing of Moana.

[Sean Fennessy]

They don't even know about you, girl. You're the real queen of this land.

[Yossi Salek]

I will say I was grateful, ladies. As I was as stunned the children, even the four year old knew the name of that sort of like simp artist that was on the boat. I still don't even remember it, but they were like, yeah, so and so, like. And I was like, you're four and you caught that? Like, I missed. Maybe it's one of those, like, dog whistle type things where, like, they actually are, like so good at making it for children. For children to understand that some of it slips past us. But a four year old can follow. It's totally possible.

[Sean Fennessy]

I found the film somewhat disappointing. I didn't mention it's. Abigail Barlow and Emily Baer are the writers of the songs for this film. And they were the writers of the songs for the unofficial Bridgerton musical. Are either of you guys up on that? That was a bit of a phenomenon in the late Covid period.

[Yossi Salek]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And they have now fully poured it over to reputation.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's not the thing in London where there was a stripper and it went viral in the manner of the. That's not one of those. I'm thinking of something else. Excuse me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Magic Mike's Last Dance. I'm pretty sure that's what I'm referring.

[Rob Harvilla]

There we go. That's exactly what I'm referring to.

[Yossi Salek]

Surprisingly. Who brought the horniest energy to this pod? It was Rob from the jump.

[Sean Fennessy]

What do you mean, surprisingly? Look at how strapping he is. He's downright Dustin Milliganian.

[Rob Harvilla]

All right. Okay.

[Yossi Salek]

That's my dad. That's my dad you're talking about.

[Rob Harvilla]

My wife was a little alarmed by Dustin Milligan's whole vibe in this movie.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, he was toothy.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was just gonna say way too much smiling. Take it down a notch.

[Yossi Salek]

A lot of teeth. A lot of teeth.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are there any movies at the end of this year that you guys are excited for?

[Yossi Salek]

Oh yeah, Baby Girl.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Now that is a Yossi movie.

[Yossi Salek]

And also what's the movie from the woman who made Morburn? Caller. I love her. I love all her movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

Lyn Lynn Ramsey. Yeah, that's Lynn Ramsey.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, it's not next year. That's the movie I'm the most excited for. Sorry, that's. So maybe for this year Baby Girl is high on my list.

[Sean Fennessy]

Good choice.

[Rob Harvilla]

I want to see Wicked. Dude, I. You know, I have not yet seen Wicked. I think the boys are into Wicked. You're both grimacing. So maybe I'm enjoy. I do now only because of that guy.

[Sean Fennessy]

I saw the film, some good stuff, but I wasn't ultimately a big fan of it. But it is. It looks like it may turn out to be the movie phenomenon of the year, people.

[Yossi Salek]

Because both adults and kids want to see it. So it's going to like blow up.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it's got a two plus generation level of connectivity. You've got parents who can bring their kids who experienced it for the first time. I think in 2001 is when it was first staged and you got even people who read the book. And obviously the wizard of oz is almost 100 years of history. So.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, we'll never get anything. We'll never get anything new again.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know what my kids really Want to see? Sonic 3. Sonic 3 is the most antenna.

[Yossi Salek]

Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's correct. Yes.

[Yossi Salek]

Amazing.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is the third film in the Sonic series. Will you be watching any of those?

[Yossi Salek]

Yossi, maybe. Honestly, I played Sonic as a kid. I didn't know this existed. If I'm being keeping it 100 with you guys.

[Sean Fennessy]

Jim Carrey plays Dr. Robotnik.

[Rob Harvilla]

Best Jim Carrey role in a decade or more.

[Sean Fennessy]

Best Jim Carrey role in what, Rob?

[Rob Harvilla]

In a decade or more. All right, what is he. What's the better Jim Camera Pickens there, brother.

[Yossi Salek]

I don't.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know that's.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

An odd way to frame it.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, he's not worked a lot.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, well those are really some good choices. Sonic 3, Baby Girl and Wicked.

[Yossi Salek]

What about you, Sean?

[Sean Fennessy]

You already saw.

[Yossi Salek]

You already saw these movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've seen most. Most. Most of what I want to see. Let's. Let's take a look at what I'm excited about. Thanks for watching.

[Yossi Salek]

I want to see the Pope I want to see the Pope movie again also.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, Conclave.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it's on VOD now, so you can rent it.

[Yossi Salek]

Thank. I will be. No, it's only really enjoyable if you see it in the theater with a bunch of elderly people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Can't say I disagree with that.

[Yossi Salek]

Not only, but it's extra enjoyable.

[Sean Fennessy]

Allow me to cross the Wild Robot.

[Rob Harvilla]

I know that sort of. That's on VOD now. We're sort of waiting till. That's not $25. But we really want to see the Wild Robot.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, the Lohan holiday movie. Sorry. That one is called hold on one second. I have it in my little notes here. It is called Our Little Secret, and the premise is that two resentful exes are forced to spend Christmas under the same roof after discovering that their partners are siblings.

[Sean Fennessy]

Intriguing. There's one movie that I'm very interested in that I haven't seen yet. And then there's another movie that I think is very relevant to this trio. Better Man. You guys know Better Man. Batman's the Robbie Williams biopic.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, yes. Remember I said this to you. He's a monkey.

[Rob Harvilla]

He's a monkey.

[Yossi Salek]

I'm dying to see this.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe there's a little drop in from this trio to discuss that film at some point.

[Rob Harvilla]

I'd love to.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then a complete unknown, which I have seen, which I don't really want to talk about until I talk about on the show. But that's the Bob Dylan film starring Timothee Chalamet.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Rob not into it?

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, no, I'm a little nervous about it. Can you say anything at all? Are you just completely, very well, how.

[Yossi Salek]

Annoying will men be post seeing that film?

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, how annoying will women be? I think is a reasonable question to ask about any Timothee Chalamet movie. Right?

[Yossi Salek]

That's a good point. This is an equal opportunity, bringing out the annoying in everybody.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then it's an Edward Norton performance. So how annoying will Shawn be is a reasonable question to ask. I'm always going to bat for my guy guy.

[D]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Edward Norton is in that movie. Who does he play?

[Sean Fennessy]

He plays Pete Seeger.

[Rob Harvilla]

Sure he does.

[Yossi Salek]

Sure.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Also, Scoot McNary plays Woody Guthrie. Were you aware of that?

[Rob Harvilla]

Hey, I was not aware of any of this.

[Yossi Salek]

Can I ask a broader question, Sean, really quick? I'm sorry, you probably want us to go now, but since I have your film expert ear, why do you think there's such a recent push towards so many films about music in the biopic sense? Cause that was kind of a dead space for a while. And now it seems like we're so back. Heavy air quotes and, you know, tempered your expectations. But, like, there's the Bruce Springsteen one coming out. Like, I guess Elvis kind of. Is that what kicked it off?

[Rob Harvilla]

But like, it's going kind of crazy winning an Oscar.

[Yossi Salek]

Oh, Bohemian Rhapsody.

[Sean Fennessy]

The team Bohemian Rhapsody making $900 million, that set all this in motion. I mean, next year we have a Michael Jackson one as well. The one thing I can say about the Bob Dylan movie, holding all other kind of criticisms aside, is that there are several sequences in which the Bob Dylan songs are performed on camera by the actors. And you're like, God damn, this really is one of the best songs of all time.

[Yossi Salek]

Right. You're reminded of.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. And, you know, reasonable people can even disagree about the quality of Bob Dylan's songwriting. But it's kind of the same feeling when you're watching the Queen movie, which straight up stinks. I mean, it's really just not a good movie at all.

[Yossi Salek]

So bad.

[Sean Fennessy]

But there are moments like when he's performing at Live Aid where you're just like, this is fucking awesome. Like, this sounds great. These songs are incredible. Like, it just works.

[Yossi Salek]

And so it's so cheap to use the strength of people's goodwill and love of classic music.

[Sean Fennessy]

It is what it is, though. That's exactly what it is. Yossi.

[Yossi Salek]

Yeah, there's a Beatles one coming, too. In theory.

[Sean Fennessy]

There are four Beatles films that are each individually focused on each Beatle Timothee.

[Rob Harvilla]

Chalamet will play all four.

[Yossi Salek]

All four Beatles. The wig budget goes crazy on that one, babe. See, if I. This is what I would do. I'd smoke some weed and I'd be like, what if we had a Beatles movie? But they're all one guy.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sounds like you should run Sony Pictures.

[Yossi Salek]

No, but if anyone's listening, who loves to fund creative mind. If any feminist in the space of film are listening and want to fund my creative mind, I think there should be a Slits biopic. I think that is what the world needs. I think it would be. I think one of the best things about music biopics is when they're not too famous because it becomes too Uncanny Valley when you're trying to understand what you're looking at and it's someone you know very well. But, like, nobody is that familiar with the Slits and their story is so cool and crazy.

[Sean Fennessy]

So, Bob Iger, if you're listening, I'm.

[Yossi Salek]

Available for meetings if I haven't already offended you with my takeoff Wanted to. I'm here.

[Rob Harvilla]

Lin Manuel Miranda.

[Yossi Salek]

Lin Manuel Miranda will do the music and Timothee Chalamet will play. Ari up. Let's fucking go.

[Rob Harvilla]

There we go.

[Sean Fennessy]

Rob, what's next on 60 songs? What are you doing next week? Spoil it here for us. Come on.

[Rob Harvilla]

The post Thanksgiving episode, rather, is Linkin park, which I think is very appropriate.

[Yossi Salek]

Sean's a huge fan.

[Rob Harvilla]

You hate Linkin Park.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that was my biggest band. This has gone many times on the show.

[Rob Harvilla]

9,500 words about your least favorite band. Okay. You don't think, like, Mike Shinoda is a real raphead? Is the conclusion that Justin and I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Have come to a real rap head.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, he knows his stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, so am I. But that doesn't mean I should make rapid.

[Rob Harvilla]

He is a better rapper than most rappers in rap rock bands. He is a better rapper than Fred Durst. Can we start there?

[Yossi Salek]

So.

[Sean Fennessy]

I straight up disagree with that. I mean no disrespect to Mike Shinoda, who seems like a nice man, and I'm not sure about Fred Durst personally, but I would rather listen to Fred Durst rap badly than Mike Shinoda rap, quote, unquote.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, that's an entirely valid viewpoint and I hope to change your mind with my four and a half hour Linkin park missive.

[Sean Fennessy]

I love that you're doing it and I love your show. Yossi, what are you in the midst of in on the season of Bandsplain?

[Yossi Salek]

I am deep, balls deep in Oasis. Actually, at Dry Bar the past two weeks they had Hot Frosty on the tv, but I didn't watch because my nose was stuck in one or another Oasis book.

[Sean Fennessy]

So you're rocking the Oasis T. It's a sport this morning.

[Yossi Salek]

That's right. You know, I'm nothing if not doing multiplatform marketing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is Oasis dropping this week?

[Yossi Salek]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, you dropped this week.

[Yossi Salek]

When does this come out? I don't know what week this is.

[Sean Fennessy]

Coming out today, man.

[Yossi Salek]

Are you serious?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's how we roll today, you guys.

[Yossi Salek]

I did something really fun as a bonus episode where I had the drummer of the Arctic Monkeys, Matt Helders, come quiz me on British slang. It's kind of a bonus up for the holiday week.

[Sean Fennessy]

Ooh, great idea. Can't wait to listen to it. Yossi and Rob, thank you so much. Relax. I'm candidly just delightful. This was some of the most fun I've had on the pod recently. So thank you for doing this and you can come back and talk about Better man and your Favorite Robbie Williams songs.

[Yossi Salek]

Maybe I'll be back from Moana 3.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, you'll definitely be invited back from Moana 3. Thanks, guys. Let's go now to my conversation with Garrett Price. Garrett Price is here, back on the show, back in the music Box series with Yacht Rock, a documentary. Tell us about your relationship, Garrett, with Yacht Rock. Before you started making this film, there.

[D]

Really wasn't one, Sean. It wasn't, you know, the last film we did together, Woodstock 99, it was a bit of a Trojan horse film. You know, I used this festival to kind of do an exploration and investigation into like late 90s culture. So I didn't really get to celebrate the music, so to say. So when you guys brought up, you know, pitching another project, it's also a dark story. What's. I wanted to do something much lighter. I knew that right off the bat I wanted to showcase the music. At the time I was editing a TV series called Daisy Jones and the Six. So I was completely immersed in 1970s Los Angeles sunset Strip rock scene during that show. And you know, I was thinking, people romanticize about this time period. You know, that show is loosely based off a Fleetwood Mac band. I think a lot of people go straight to the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac. You got Almost Famous, you got tons of Laurel Canyon docks. But there was whole other scene happening in these recording studios, studios in Los Angeles at the time. And that's what I was interested in. And I happened to meet the daughters of Christopher cross and Michael McDonald and they had joked around and said, you should talk to our dads about the word yacht rock. And that's kind of where it started from. I thought that's kind of a great idea. This idea of this retroactively created genre that has come to define these artists making music in the 70s. And what's their point of view? I want them to define their music and that's kind of where it started from.

[Sean Fennessy]

When you were working on Daisy Jones and the Six, were you a big fan of 70s rock, La Rock? Is that something you had a familiarity with?

[D]

Absolutely. You know, I inherited my parents record collection, but it was much more of the Doors, you know, Led Zeppelin, more of, you know, the Laurel Canyon scene, also Crosby Sells and Nash. So that world, this music, not so much. You know, I was kind of allergic, I guess, to like Michael McDonald and late Doobie Brothers and Christopher Cross. But you know, when I started going into this, you know, I kind of went into it ironically. I think a lot of people do. This is a name that was birthed out of the Internet, basically a meme. But you start to understand what this music was and the history behind it and where it came from and how pop music was evolving in the 70s. And I became obsessed with. And I started to appreciate the artistry, the musicianship, and I'm hoping that's reflected in the film itself. That's the movie I wanted to make.

[Sean Fennessy]

It very much is. So you meet Michael and Christopher's daughters, and they're instrumental in getting this project going, especially Madison, Christopher's daughter. But, like, where do you actually start? What is the first thing you start? Because you have this incredible skill as an editor and you're also a filmmaker. So do you start archivally? Do you start lining up interviews? Tell me about how you make a movie like this.

[D]

I know there's a structure here. You know, there's a rise, a fall, and a resurrection from this music. You know, just from knowing, you know, the story of, you know, this boom of soft rock in the late 70s and its popularity at the time and kind of its downfall in the 80s, and how it was kind of brought back into the fold through hip hop music as samples and the rock yacht rock series. So I knew that. But, you know, going into these, I didn't quite know is that engaging and enough as a story? I've never talked to these artists before. Are they fun on camera? I don't know. So I got a master interview with Chris and Michael and kind of see their dichotomy together and talking and how they riffed off each other. I was like, oh, okay, there's something here. Because it's essentially an archival talking head documentary. It's all about the interview, right? That's where you get the emotion, that's where you get the storytelling. That's where you get the narrative, so to speak. And once I talked to them them, and they were so eager to talk about this time period because I think they don't get asked a lot. You get your Stevie Nicks and Don Henley's asked all the time about making music in the 70s. These guys, I think, kind of forgotten about a bit, I want to say. So they were eager to tell their stories about making music in this time. And then after that, once they were involved, then Kenny Loggins was like, I'll do it. And then the Toto guys were like, I'll do it. So everyone started coming in. And then on top of that, I knew how important it was to get contemporary, modern musicians to talk about this. And we reached out to Questlove, who absolutely loves this music. Thundercat, who adores this music, and getting them to talk about the importance and legacy of this music and its inspiration for their own music, I thought helped legitimize this time period too, was really important for me.

[Sean Fennessy]

One thing I love about the film is, especially with a background as a music critic, it's a very, very savvy film about the sort of like, essential nature of making music. Like how the music was made. Not necessarily technically, but creatively finding ways to enunciate how these people collaborated together and how they made what they made. I have to assume you didn't know that you were going to spend as much time unpacking that at the beginning of the story, right?

[D]

No, in fact, you know, I didn't want to get too inside baseball. I'm always scared that it might get a little boring. You know, these guys love to talk about, know their influence on jazz and R and B and how they started changing the chords they were playing on the guitars from like simple three strings to like these complex jazzy chord changes. But it really kind of helped expositionally explain how to tell this story. I think once you really could kind of see how pop music was changing in the early 70s, there was much more of that kind of folk, your Laurel Canyon thing or rock thing to this more jazzier R and B inspired pop music music. It's really important. That's the story of yacht rock, essentially. And to get across the importance of black music for all these artists. They wore this influence on their sleeves and they really found it important to talk about this in the interviews. And so that was another key decision is to show how important that was as an influence to their music. And I think when it comes back around as hip hop samples, it kind of goes full circle because a lot of these, you know, hip hop artists saying these were records that were in our parents record collections or that we heard on black radio stations in the, you know, late 70s, early 80s.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I had this interesting experience in my career. I grew up with a lot of this music. My mom liked Michael McDonald, my dad liked Steely Dan. Like, I could see where some of the sort of like clear pop explosion was coming from. But when I was working as an editor at Vibe magazine, a lot of the other editors and writers that I worked with were obsessed with Michael McDonald, were obsessed with Steely Dan, were obsessed with Donald Faith, for all the reasons that someone like say, Prince Paul elucidates in the movie. And so it's fascinating that like, over the course of the last 40 or 50 years, these bands have largely eluded the sort of, like, cultural appropriation charges. The sort of, like the new way that we see understand music in the last 20 years as this, like, amalgam of all of these things. And in some cases, you've got artists ripping other artists off. But they always felt deeply admiring, always giving credit and never trampling on anything. And actually being very much, like, included, like Quest goes so far as to say, like, invited to the barbecue. Like, that's a fascinating thing that, like, I think that maybe that generation alone gets to experience. Is that fair to say?

[D]

Absolutely. And it was really important to highlight that in the movie. I think that gets left out a lot. You know, I think, you know, again, it was so interesting talking to these artists because a big part also was asking what they thought of the word yacht rock. And, you know, were they allergic to this word or they kind of think it was funny or, you know, were they welcoming to it? That's kind of to define their music. You know, all these years later, I think one of the biggest hesitations was, you know, Christopher said, it sounds like rich, yuppie, white people music. And that is against everything we were about, you know, making this music. I think that was one of the big reasons why they pushed against this kind of, you know, name for so many years until they really understood that it was made out of reverence. They named it Yacht Rock because of how expensive and smooth and, you know, grand the music sounded to their ears. The creators of the word.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's one fascinating thing about the music itself is so achingly sincere, which the film does a really good job of portraying. But then you've got this bifurcated story where you need to talk about the web series, you need to talk about the origins of the name. It actually went through some iterations over time. But talk about maybe how you figured out how to land the structure that you have.

[D]

Yeah, I define this balance right between the creators of this word, which is based off a 2005 low budget web series, and then the artists themselves. And, you know, I always went in saying, I want to have fun in this film, but I don't want to make fun, you know, And I think, you know, that was always the hardest part of finding that kind of, you know, that line in between. But, you know, you got to give credit to these guys that made in their minds kind of created a monster with this series. They had no idea. They were just having fun with this music they loved so much. And so they create this thing. It explodes it comes to define all These artists work 25, 30 years after the fact. And honestly, those guys, they know so much about those artists and the genre. They're kind of my spirit guides in the film JD Risnar and Steve Huey. And it was important, and Questlove, so to speak, also because he was obsessed with both. Also the series and the actual music being made at that time.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's so rare that you get in a documentary three incredibly articulate, funny people to hold your hand through a heady idea like you did, in a way, luck into this amazing thing, because as you know better than anybody, every doc needs these voices that kind of power you along. And all three of those guys are so special at it. When you were doing the interviews with them, were you like, oh, thank God, I'm just getting exactly what I need. Time and again, after doing a number.

[D]

Of these, you know, you need those voices kind of, you know, the glue guys, you know, the transitional bites. And so I always do those later and to help steer the narrative. But again, but I didn't have to do much because they know so much. They knew what I was doing. So when I brought a question up, they could go in that direction. They knew where I need to get from point A to point B, which, you know, you know, as I get, I always call myself an editor first and a director second. Those are the things that, you know, you're in the edit bay. It's like, that is what I need to get from here to there and feel so lucky.

[Sean Fennessy]

When you get home, there's a great moment where JD Brings up the Yatsky scale to talk about a certain song, and it's real time. Watching the documentary spackle get pushed in, you know, it's like he's building the transition for you so elegantly. It's really great. It works so well. Who was the most fun person to talk to?

[D]

Man, you know, they all hold a special place in my heart. I think that that duo interview of Chris and Michael just. It was the first, and it was the one that said, okay, I can actually tell a story here that I loved. Absolutely. And I think the modern music Thundercat, I had no idea what I was getting with him. And his passion and his respect for these artists is gleaming in that interview. I think it comes across so genuine, you know, so authentic. And I think. And same with Mac DeMarco, they just, they. They love this music, and they were so excited to sit with me and talk about.

[Sean Fennessy]

The thing that I probably learned about the most personally was Toto and the way that Toto participated in this world in a way that I did not fully understand. And I guess I knew some of those names and I knew the Picaro Brothers, but just the formulations and the way that they intersected and the way that they sort of, like, were the bedrock of a lot of this music is fascinating to me. How did you discover that? Is that something that Christopher and Michael put you onto? Who guided you to the direction of those guys?

[D]

Yeah, my Toto knowledge was like yours at the time, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

Africa, right?

[D]

Absolutely. And I knew Rosanna. I got hold the Line and Daisy Jones as a sink because I was starting to.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, nice.

[D]

I was starting to do the research on this, and I was like, I gotta get some of this music that I'm kind of working, like, on my next project.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's great.

[D]

I was able to talk Scott Neusetter into syncing it. And it works good in the film because it does. It's part of the Los Angeles fabric at the time, this music. But I talked to Steve Lukather first, because he's friends with Christopher and Michael, and he came in pretty. He was like the third person I interviewed.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's such a character, such a great interview.

[D]

And then when he started talking about all the sessions these guys were on, I had no clue how many different albums these guys played on. And then through.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's a suggestion that lukather played on 5,000 records. Is that possible?

[D]

Lukather, 5,000? Jeff Percaro, 5,000. Paige said he played over 3,000. I mean, that's incredible, right? Steve Picar played over thousands of records. So crossing over in different genres. And these guys could play anything, you know, And I think it's, you know, we expose which main huge, massive album they played on in the 80s, which kind of, you know, they all played on Thriller, which is interesting because some could say Thriller was the downfall of this style of music. But it was also stockpiled with these artists themselves.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was just explaining that bitter irony to my wife the other day when, after we just watched the film again, and I was like, it's just so fascinating the way that they, in many ways, like, helped engineer their own demise. But then they ultimately rose again in such a fascinating way. What was the hardest thing to crack in terms of telling the story?

[D]

Where to start? I think in making these, it's always, where do you start these things? You know, you see the finish line fairly quickly. And I always knew I wanted to end it the way I did. When I had during the interview, I Clocked these bites that I'm like, that's a great ending bite, things like that. But. But, you know, just. How do we set up the web series? How do we set up, you know, the relationship with the web series? I think a lot of people thought it was called yacht rock back in the 70s. Still, a lot of people have never heard of the word yacht rock, but they know this music. So I think the starting line is always the hardest thing. This music we keep describing as the soundtrack of our lives. And because it's literally a soundtrack of our lives, we hear it everywhere we go, whether it's the supermarket, you know, cvs, doctor's offices, elevators, parents, cars. So I always feel like we've taken it for granted because it's always been there. So, you know, I just. I just wanted to hang out with these actual musicians, making it and getting them to tell their stories. It's a hangout movie in the end, right?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You're kind of just chilling with these guys.

[Sean Fennessy]

It is. And it feels like that best feeling, that great feeling when you're watching a doc and you're cutting back to an interview with someone you've previously seen before, and you just feel like they're just as revved up as they were from the Last Bite. You, like Jay Reardon, for example, you're just like, oh, my God. He's like, he's back and he's happy to tell you once more about the solo that he played on this record.

[D]

Absolutely. Again, these guys are just so happy to talk about this time period because I think a lot of people haven't talked to him about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

And they deserve their, you know, on the mantle of music history, you know, and that's, you know, I'm hoping we're giving them a showcase of doing that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let's talk about Steely Dan.

[D]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Steely Dan are very important to this film. They're very important to this genre. Maybe just for the listeners, you can kind of like, outline the meaningful role that they play in the story. And then let's talk about engaging the Steely Dan world in.

[D]

So, as one of the yacht rock web series creators calls Steely Dan, they are the primordial ooze from which yacht rock sprang. You know, so many of these musicians in the film started their careers with Steely Dan as session players. So we try to make a point of they took everything they learned from Donald and Walter Fagan. Donald Fagan and Walter Becker of Steely Dan into their own work. And that's kind of you visually see how the sound grows across Los Angeles. Steely Dan, heavily influenced by jazz music, you know, and combining pop music. So I knew these music docs are only as good as having the actual music in the film itself, you know, especially a film where we're talking about what the sound is. I didn't want to be like a clip film where you hear three or four seconds and try to fair use the track. I needed to live in this music, you know, and tell these stories. So I think, Sean, we had like six Stevie Dan songs.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yep.

[D]

I don't think Donald Fagan has ever licensed more than one for a project, and he's very picky about that. So we finished this film, basically, and we were sitting idle, waiting for Donald to watch the movie and then sign off on it. And months go by and, you know, we started having those discussions. How do we recut this?

[Sean Fennessy]

This was very stressful. Yeah, this happened on a. On a film, on another documentary in the previous season of this series. And the same. It was the same feeling that I had, at least in my seat, where I was like, holy shit. This movie is either not happening or getting significantly recut because. Especially because of the way that you structured it really so beautifully as this originating point, if you took it out, the house of cards kind of comes down, right?

[D]

Absolutely. We had those conversations all the time. You know, I didn't know what to do. And I always felt also like, this is a love letter to this music. I just hope he watches it, you know, and understands that. Months go by, we haven't heard anything. And then. And we finally get a phone call from Donald's manager, Irving Gazoff, the notorious Irving Gazoff, and says, love the movie. We absolutely love it. Donald will never sign off on this music. He hates the word yot rock. I'm like, wait, what? What do we do here? And then a couple days go by and he calls back, he goes, okay, Garrett, here's what's going to happen. Donald's going to call you one day, record the conversation. Whatever he says, find a way to put that in the movie, and we'll consider licensing the music to you. Weeks go by, Sean. I don't hear anything. I'm answering every single unknown caller, telemarketer, political call possible.

[Sean Fennessy]

Tough time of the year for taking that on, too.

[D]

3:00 in the afternoon on Tuesday, getting ready to go get the kids. I get a phone call. It's Donald Fagan. And I'm like shaking. I'm like, donald, get recording equipment. On I have this app where you can switch over or record. I hang up on him. There's no callback number. I'm like, oh, my God, I ruined it. Ten minutes go by, he calls back. Thankfully, he goes, you have one more time, one more shot of this kid. Okay, I'm just going to put you on speakerphone, record you on my computer, and I have this conversation. If he wants to be in the film and participate, I've talked to all these peers, and he gives me an answer, and I find a way to use it in the film. Days go by and they signed off on all the music, so I don't want to ruin it. You've probably read about it, maybe, if you're interested in this film. But I think, you know, with him, I don't know if he loves the word, but he gets it. And I think it's a wink to, you know, the music.

[Sean Fennessy]

For those of us who are Silly Dan fans, it honestly feels like the perfect encapsulation of the Fagan fandom experience, where there is, like an acid burn on every flower. You know, like every beautiful thing that he's made needs to be somehow a little bit harshed or vice versa. And this is like an incredible example of that.

[D]

My wife heard it all happening in real time, next room, and she's like, oh, my God, he's so mean to you. I go, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me. You have no idea. I just gotta have a conversation with Donald Fagan.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's pretty great. He burnished his myth once more. Well, listen, I'm so proud of this movie. I'm so proud to be a part of it. I'm amazed by what you're able to accomplish because it is so serpentine. And when you take the pieces apart, you look at how complicated it is. But you did such an elegant job of making it fun, breezy, enjoyable. We were at the premiere on Thursday in la. People were just cheering and dancing in their seat. It was great.

[D]

First time any of the artists had seen the movie, so that was terrifying, right?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[D]

And they were so happy they got to meet the guys that created the Word, which I've never met before.

[Sean Fennessy]

How did that go over everything? Okay.

[D]

Hugs all around. I felt like I was tearing the wall down. It was pretty amazing, you know, bringing countries together, you know, so it was really spouting. Like, this comes out the day after Thanksgiving. It is the perfect film. No matter how contentious your Thanksgiving dinner is this year, you could all just watch together and vibe out and listen to the smooth, sweet sounds of yacht rock.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a great pitch, Garrett. We end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen? Have you seen anything great recently?

[D]

I just binged the TV series Cross on Amazon.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, the Aldous Hodge show? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

And I actually.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was. It was good.

[D]

Perfect thing to watch. You know, we watched all 8, 10 episodes back to back.

[Sean Fennessy]

Interesting.

[D]

It was the perfect thing I needed.

[Sean Fennessy]

What's the vibe? Because I remember Alex Cross from Tyler Perry from the film.

[D]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But what, like, what is the energy of this show?

[D]

It's darker. It's a serial killer series, but it's cool. I think there's a vibe to it too.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[D]

And I knew some of the people involved.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is not some I'm on the Amazon payroll stuff. Right. You're being straight with me?

[Rob Harvilla]

Okay?

[D]

I promise. I enjoyed it immensely.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got a great recommendation. Garrett Price, thanks so much. Appreciate everything on yacht. Thanks to Garrett Price. Thanks to Yossi and Rob, thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to producer Olivia Creary filling in for Bobby on today's episode. Next week, we will dig into Steve McQueen's Blitz and our top five favorite World War II movies. We'll see you then.