‘Mamma Mia!’ Meets ‘The Strangers'! It’s a Movie Swap!

Summary

The Big Picture – Movie Swap: ‘Mamma Mia!’ vs. ‘The Strangers’

Podcast: The Big Picture (The Ringer)
Hosts: Sean Fennessey & Amanda Dobbins
Date: February 6, 2026
Episode Theme: The hosts engage in a Movie Swap, reviewing and discussing two iconic 2008 movies with wildly different tones—‘Mamma Mia!’ and ‘The Strangers’. They explore the pleasures and anxieties of not knowing, personal taste, genre conventions, and how these films reveal something about themselves and movie culture at large.

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Episode Overview

In this listener-chosen episode, Sean and Amanda revisit the Movie Swap format: each watches a film that is “core” to the other’s taste but new to them. The chosen movies, both from 2008, are the exuberant ABBA musical ‘Mamma Mia!’ (new to Sean) and the nerve-fraying home invasion horror ‘The Strangers’ (new to Amanda). The wide-ranging conversation deals with personal revelations, cultural reception, what makes each film effective (or ineffective), and how both, surprisingly, revolve around the thrill and terror of not knowing.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Listeners’ Choice & Movie Swap Context

Timestamps: [01:19]–[03:16], [09:40]–[17:04]

• Listeners were offered four episode ideas; they chose the 2008 Movie Swap.
• Recap of previous Movie Swaps (e.g., ‘Sense and Sensibility’ vs. ‘Into the Spider-Verse’).
• “It was kind of like, you’re into this kind of a thing and I’m into this…there’s a certain kind of thing that maybe we won’t experience too often.” —Sean [10:17]
• Amanda points out that while both now watch almost everything, the swap format still reveals meaningful differences in taste.

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2. The Strangers: Horror of the Unknown

Review segment: [17:04]–[49:30]

Synopsis:
A couple (Scott Speedman & Liv Tyler) returns to a remote family home after an unsuccessful marriage proposal, only to be terrorized through the night by three masked strangers for no apparent reason.

Key Discussion Points:

• Thematic Link: The primal fear is uncertainty, not knowing—who, why, what next. “This movie is about the scariest thing of all: not knowing.” —Amanda [22:52]
• Minimal Explanation: The film withholds backstory and motivation (“There is almost...99% no origin story.” —Amanda [23:14]) and rarely even reveals the strangers’ faces, amplifying dread.
• Amanda’s Reaction: Enjoyed the filmmaking and tension but found it “really messed up” and “a fuck you kind of movie.” [19:02]
• Tropes Subverted: The movie is not gory or supernatural, but instead “lean, spare, and emotionally withholding,” focusing on atmosphere and psychological horror [23:13].
• Notable Moment: The famous line—when asked “Why are you doing this?” one stranger flatly answers: “Because you were home.” [35:19] Amanda and Sean agree this is the only “answer” the film offers, and perhaps the one flaw—maybe leaving it ambiguous would be even scarier.
• Influence & Style: Seen as one of the most influential horror movies of its era; stands out for not explaining its threat—unlike recent trauma-centric or origin-based horror trends [34:08].
• Cinematic Choices: Effective use of sound and editing, the “haunted” feel of space and isolation, the tension of sudden appearances in the frame (“There's one shot where Liv Tyler’s in the kitchen, and then he, like, shows up in the hallway and just absolutely terrifying.” —Amanda [27:01]).

Memorable Quotes:

• “Just a single knock at 4:30 in the morning can be the most upsetting thing that could possibly happen to you.” —Sean [38:57]
• “It’s a movie that understands that what you really want is to know. And it’s just so scary that you don’t.” —Amanda [23:14]
• “It kind of exists out of nowhere. And that's it. It leaves you feeling unsettled.” —Sean [22:47]

Other Insights:

• Minimalist Production: Budget and time constraints led to effective spareness. Sean cites a 70s grindhouse vibe [27:22].
• Unresolved Ending: Both hosts praise the ending’s refusal to offer catharsis or resolution (“the greatest fear and power lies in not knowing” —Amanda [87:12]).
• Amanda’s Letterboxd Score: 3.5 stars [48:22].

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3. Mamma Mia!: Pop, Camp, and Party

Review segment: [49:39]–[85:51]

Synopsis:
Sophie (Amanda Seyfried), on the eve of her wedding, invites three men from her mother’s (Meryl Streep) past to discover her real father, set to the music of ABBA, on a sun-soaked Greek island.

Key Discussion Points:

• Simultaneously Great…and Bad: “I’ve never seen a film be so good and so bad simultaneously. I completely understand the phenomenon…I’m willing to join the cult.” —Sean [50:41]
• What Works:
  • Infectious music, Greek scenery, cast chemistry (“Everyone is having so much fun. And it's in Greece.” —Sean [53:20])
  • Amanda Seyfried as MVP: “She’s very game for the part…giving a very sincere and kind of winning performance.” —Sean [57:09]
  • Charm in looseness: “It’s so unusual to experience a movie where everyone's kind of like, yeah, we're just winging it...” —Sean [61:53]
• What Doesn’t:
  • “Some of the worst direction I’ve ever seen.” —Sean [53:02]
  • Amateurish or underbaked in choreography, camera work, and plotting—a “spiritually cloudy” but fun hang.
  • Poor singing by most cast except Seyfried.
• Movie as Hangout: “It’s a hangout, fun movie.... You don’t really need to be locked into the performances and character motivation.” —Sean [55:31]
• Massive Popularity: Despite (or because of) its bad filmmaking, it grossed $610 million worldwide, especially massive in the UK [65:20].
• Theme of Not Knowing: Parallels ‘The Strangers’—the plot depends on unresolved paternity. “This movie understands the greatest fear and the greatest power lies in not knowing.” —Amanda [87:12]
• Karaoke Vibes: “It's just really fun karaoke with actors you enjoy.” —Sean [84:32]
• No Need to Know Everything: Amanda, reflecting on 2008 and today, “We don’t actually need to know everything about each other.” [58:57]

Notable Musical Moments:

• “Meryl Streep singing 'The Winner Takes It All' at Pierce Brosnan at one of the most beautiful cliffs... I think about this scene once a week.” —Amanda [68:25]
• Christine Baranski’s ‘Take a Chance on Me’ and ‘Dancing Queen’ as iconic/funny sequences [70:10].
• Extended “curtain call” medley in credits a highlight: “Arguably the highest point of the movie is....the credit sequence when they've stripped away all pretense of trying to tell a story.” —Amanda [82:56]

Memorable Quotes:

• “The movie knows what it is: really famous, accomplished actors who can’t sing on vacation in Greece, performing the songs of ABBA while slightly hungover.” —Amanda [60:18]
• “It is pop, culturally significant.” —Amanda [17:46]
• “Just like jukebox it the fuck out.” —Sean [60:14]
• “If you put vampires in your movie, I will check it out.” —Sean [67:36]

Other Insights:

• Movie Musicals’ Perils: Both find many recent musicals off-putting, prefer classic and less “showy” music and choreography [62:25–64:41].
• Meryl Streep’s Reign: Recognition of her box office pull and bold career choices as an older actress (“Again, completely anomalous.” —Sean [76:17]).
• Movie as Feminine Space: Unapologetically female-centric, full of “regal” but “real” performances and summer vibes.
• Speculating on Sophie’s Father: Hosts examine how the film’s ambiguity is both a joke and a point in its favor; Amanda even applies ovulation math to the mystery [91:35].
• “If you could do your own Mamma Mia…” Amanda pitches a Rihanna-in-Barbados musical [85:56].

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Notable Quotes With Timestamps

• On the pleasure/horror of not knowing:
  “This movie is about the scariest thing of all: not knowing—what's going on, who’s behind the mask, what’s outside the frame.” —Amanda, [22:52]

• On the effectiveness of Strangers' minimalism:
  “It’s a really thin movie, purposefully, very spare.” —Sean, [27:22]

• On horror’s modern trends:
  “A lot of horror movies go to great lengths to psychologize intent and rationalize trauma—which is kind of valid but is really overdone.” —Sean, [34:08]

• On the Mamma Mia experience:
  “Never seen a film be so good and so bad at the same time. I completely understand the phenomenon…willing to join the cult.” —Sean, [50:41]
  “The movie is really about good karaoke with actors you enjoy.” —Sean, [84:32]

• On ABBA’s pop genius:
  “As legible to a 4-year-old as to a 43-year-old.” —Sean, [52:10]

• On directing and performance:
  “Everything in between…looks and is completely silly and underbaked; not even like there’s really any acting going on here.” —Amanda, [57:04]

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Moments To Check Out (Timestamps)

• [22:52]–[23:14]: Amanda on ‘The Strangers’ and the anxiety of not knowing.
• [27:01]: Amanda describes the film’s scariest shot—a masked presence lurking in the background.
• [35:19]: “Because you were home”—the most memorable/ominous line in The Strangers.
• [53:02]: Sean and Amanda riff on the direction/craft flaws that make Mamma Mia fun and odd.
• [60:18]: Amanda’s summary of the Mamma Mia “party” vibe.
• [61:53]: Discussion of the loose, carefree spirit of Mamma Mia’s production.
• [68:25]: Amanda’s favorite scene, “The Winner Takes It All” on a Greek cliff.
• [82:56]: Celebration of the film’s extended disco credit medley.

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Tone

• Warm, irreverent, enthusiastic, but insightful.
• Amanda: Wry, analytical, with pop-feminist perspective.
• Sean: Affable, sometimes cranky, always thorough, approaching both movies with curiosity and humor.

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Conclusion

This episode illustrates how two seemingly unrelated films—an ABBA musical and a home invasion horror—can both captivate audiences through the management of uncertainty and the pleasure (or terror) of not knowing. ‘Mamma Mia!’ is joyfully ridiculous and culturally essential, inviting viewers to dance and sing and not sweat the details. ‘The Strangers’ is lean and mean, making the absence of answers its own source of terror. The Movie Swap format once again lets Amanda and Sean cross over into each other’s worlds, with both films ultimately being about the joys, risks, and lasting intrigue of the unknown.

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Next Week

• Oscars trailer talk and a recap of Sean & Amanda attending the Directors Guild Awards (DGA)—their first awards show together!

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Notable Quotes for Sharing/Social:

• “We don’t actually need to know everything about each other.” —Amanda [58:57]
• “If you put vampires in your movie, I will check it out.” —Sean [67:36]
• “The movie is really about good karaoke with actors you enjoy.” —Sean [84:32]

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End of Summary.

Transcript

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[Sean Fennese]

I'm Sean Fennese.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is the.

[Sean Fennese]

Big Picture 8 conversation show about you decide and we watch. We put you all to the test with the first ever listeners choice episode. Listeners were given four options. Amanda, do you want to read those options?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'd love to. Number one, we'll go see Melania so you don't have to. Number two, a 2008 movie swap, Mamma Mia versus the Strangers. Number three, the movie theater snack taste test. Number four, a 2025 catch up. We watch Demon Slayer, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Infinity Castle and Gabby's Dollhouse.

[Sean Fennese]

Gratefully you all chose option two and we will have that movie swap right after this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by State Farm.

[Sean Fennese]

You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into. The ones who'll debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at three in the morning. Those friends are gold.

[Amanda Dobbins]

State Farm is like that. Helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits. Car, home life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award winning app.

[Sean Fennese]

Like a good neighbor star State Farm is there. Okay, first of all, how are you feeling? You didn't have to watch Demon Slayer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, and I didn't have to watch Melania. Demon Slayer obviously would have been preferable to Melania.

[Sean Fennese]

Will you ever see Melania? What if there's some sort of project that you want to do about our first lady, you know, some point in time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't see that in my cards.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, I see, like being as old as I am has mostly downsides, but I will just arrange my life so that I never have to see that movie. And I think I can do it.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. I'm very pleased with the listeners. I'm very. I appreciate that they were thinking of our well being, that they were thinking of the state of our political climate and what they don't want in their movie podcast. I respect it. I thank them. Before we get into the swap, though.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Which, you know, much anticipated because Mamma Mia. I think is on that short list of movies that I keep saying I've never seen this on this show and I finally did see it. So I'm excited to talk with you about it. And the Strangers, which came out in the same year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennese]

And I would, I'll argue has some things in common with Mamma Mia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

For sure. Absolutely.

[Sean Fennese]

About knowing thyself and what can't be known. So before we do that, this Sunday is the Super Bowl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Now the super bowl for me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are we allowed to say that legally? Like, are we allowed to say the words the super bowl legally? Yeah. Because doesn't. Isn't there all sorts of like licensing stuff?

[Sean Fennese]

The CIA is listening to the show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, no, no, no. I mean, what's just more powerful, the CIA or the NFL?

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know, honestly, League together. So it's a really good question. We can't put the Super Bowl, I think in maybe in the title of our show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

Now we can put in the title of our episode, but.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, we can.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes. But the show, well, it's copyright.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I was consuming a lot of local news yesterday while in the waiting room at the local mammogram center.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shout out. You know, listen.

[Sean Fennese]

Thanks for sharing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Here we are. It's important.

[Sean Fennese]

Yep.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If you're. If you're a woman of a certain.

[Sean Fennese]

Walk us through the entire mammogram.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, there's a mammogram and an ultrasound if you really want to get into it. And I had to fight to. I was like, no, no, no, we have to do the ultrasound as well. This is. Listen, America's health care system also just a plus. But the Kyron's on the local news were just Big Game and they were doing a lot of food for Big Game and I get a lot of Big Game emails. So are we going to get like reviewed for saying the words? The super.

[Sean Fennese]

I believe you can say the words whether or not they can be printed. They're not going in the. In the copy of the episode title or description. Just want to make sure maybe they are. Well, we'll check in with Jack after this. I bring it up for a couple of birdies in my ear this week that there's going to be some interesting movie related stuff during the super bowl, that there might be some sneak peeks at some interesting and relevant new titles. I don't know if this is true. You hear these kinds of rumors all the time. The super bowl historically is a great launch pad for movie trailers and there probably will be 25 minutes of conversation on Monday's episode about the trailers that we see. But I wanted to use this opportunity to platform where I'm at with the NFL. So.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so you do think it is funded by the CIA. It is like it is the 2020 version of winds of Change.

[Sean Fennese]

I'm not saying that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are we sure?

[Sean Fennese]

I. What I can confirm is that the New York jets are a psyop that have been operated against me. And I am publicly announcing that after this year's NFL draft, I am taking a 12 month hiatus from the team. I won't be watching jets games. I don't even know how much NFL I'm going to watch. I also really don't want to watch this super bowl because the New England Patriots are back in it and I want to just sit it out. Now, I have a professional obligation to see trailers that are coming out, but do you think I could get away with just not watching the game and just seeing, you know, as soon as someone tweets, oh, here's the trailer for Avengers Doomsday or whatever it is that's going to be coming out. Fire it up. And then not even engage with the game itself. I've never not watched the super bowl since I was 5 years old.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm going to be honest, I keep waiting for you to invite me to your home to watch the super bowl because I'm already Sunday. Yeah, well, I'm already hosting an event that morning, so it's. It's Happy birthday, Knox. So I can't be hosting a Super bowl party. So I've just been like, where else are we going to gather? Is everyone having a Super bowl party without me? Maybe they are. This is illuminating. But even if you were to invite me to the home for the super bowl party, we wouldn't be able to watch the trailers because there's too much stuff going on.

[Sean Fennese]

That's true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When we prepare for this episode where we engage with the movie content we watch it post facto on the Internet like everybody else.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, I rewatch it nine or 12 times, all the trailers, just so I can kind of get a real breakdown, get the telestrator out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that you're gonna be able to not watch any of the game. Will you watch the halftime show? I will.

[Sean Fennese]

I'm interested. Yeah. Bad bunny, obviously. And it's been controversial or whatever, but that's stupid. I. Yeah, I. I love football. I'm. I'm sharing this because this is a really complicated thing for me because the team that I root for has ground me down so hard and this feels like a. Almost like pointless season that they have in front of them. I can't recall a time where I'm like, there's kind of no hope for what's coming in the next 12 months. I'm going to come back probably once they fire the head coach and rebuild the team and start again in 27. But it's painful to be watching everyone else just be happy. You know, I've gotten to watch, you know, our dear friend Chris and your husband Zach and Andy, and, you know, all of our great friends are Philadelphians. Celebrate Super Bowls, Chiefs fans celebrating super bowls. You know, 15 year drought for the playoffs for the jets is like, just scoop me out and I feel lost, so. And I don't want anybody else to be happy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So, just to be clear, the update that you wanted to platform is your personal relationship to the NFL.

[Sean Fennese]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But me advocating for women to get mammograms is not welcome. On.

[Sean Fennese]

No, that's. No, I don't reject that at all. Exc. After we're done recording, I will tell Jack to cut that out, but no one will know. So we can discuss it right here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

No, no, I think this is a space for. For personal information as well as movie insights.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't believe you, so.

[Sean Fennese]

I know. I also do not believe you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You've done this every year. Like, you've quit the Knicks 45 times.

[Sean Fennese]

No, one time I quit the Knicks and it didn't take. And honestly, that turned out to be a good move coming back because things are going very well right now with the Knicks. The Knicks, you. And I'm very grateful you don't quit.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The Mets, but you re examine your relationship to the Met all the time. Every two weeks.

[Sean Fennese]

All the time. I'm feeling pretty good about the Mets. I'm feeling excellent about the Knicks. I really like how the things are falling in their favor lately and the jets are garbage and I need a break.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I'm not coming to your house to watch the Super Bowl.

[Sean Fennese]

Let me think. Let me think about it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let me just.

[Sean Fennese]

Let me just think about it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Jack, are you having a Super bowl party?

[Sean Fennese]

I'll be going over to this guy's house, so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, that's nice. That's great, Lucas. That's. Yeah. Let's everyone welcome Lucas to the big picture. And thanks for the invite. Lucas. I keep getting emails about restaurants that are ordering, like, offering wings.

[Sean Fennese]

Can I be honest?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Two social functions in a row in the same day is just a lot for me to consider.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, me too. But the alternative is like hosting 40 children in the morning and then hosting my two children in the afternoon.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. Alone, you know, you can have it all. That's what I say. Football, two children, birthday party, and mammograms. Congrats to you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much.

[Sean Fennese]

All right, let's go to the movies. So, you know, we've done the movie swap quite a bit, but it's been a while, and I think there's probably a lot of new listeners to the show who don't even know what this premise is. It's not super ornate or complicated, but even in remembering when it started, I forgot the original episode. So I thought this was going to be our fifth movie swap, and in fact, it is our sixth. As you pointed out to me, the first one we ever did was in 2019, and we swapped into the Spider Verse and Sense and Sensibility. And this is so almost seven years ago. I think the character of the show was kind of coming into view right around this time, and it was kind of like, you're into this kind of a thing and I'm into this kind of thing, and we have a lot of meeting points, but there's a certain kind of a thing that maybe we won't experience too often. Show's changed a lot since then, and we both kind of see everything now. There's not anything that we are skipping over, but I famously had not seen Sense and Sensibility before. And you didn't do the into the Spider Verse episode with me. I think I did with Micah Peters way back in the day. So we swapped.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Fun conversation. You loved into the Spiderverse, and I really liked Sense and Sensibility and it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Was also instructive about. It taught me a lot about how I watch animation, what I respond to. And because into the Spider Verse is such like, a. A dynamic and inventive version of animation, it was like. It was good to Watch. Because everything I've seen since then, like I, you know, I have as a reference point and that conversation just like in terms of like color palette and you know, types of, types of drawings and that sort of thing. So it was cool. I still think about you being like, yeah, I just. This is, this is a movie about how people can't get married a lot.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, just a lot of rules around marriage. Yeah, just do it. Just get in there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, just knock it out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just, I've been, I've been thinking of working a shop. Shopping a take in my own mind about just like, I think like past a certain tax bracket you just like should not get married anymore.

[Sean Fennese]

You were saying this way before you were married.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I know you were like all.

[Sean Fennese]

Hung up on this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it is just, it is a business arrangement, you know. And so there are like all of these people, you know, are like Timothee Chalamet and Kylie Jenner engaged. I hope not. They don't need to be like, they can just, they can build a life together and they can keep their businesses separate.

[Sean Fennese]

One, this is your most COD take of all time. Two, you're like read way too much Jane Austen anxiety that you have while you're in is a seemingly very healthy and stable long running relationship and marriage.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's great for me it's really good.

[Sean Fennese]

But like, don't scold anyone, especially not wealthy people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's just a financial arrangement, you know. And also if we then and then like. And our tax, tax code is also built to pressure people into getting married even though they don't get married. Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

You think it's because of the intersection of the Christian power structure and the nation state. Do you think that they're like, yeah, okay, how do we disassemble that we're working on anyway.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's what Sense and Sensibility is about.

[Sean Fennese]

That I like the film quite a bit. 2020, we did Aliens versus Four Weddings and a Funeral. I'd also not seen Four Weddings and a Funeral.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shameful.

[Sean Fennese]

Good movies. They were both good. We went back to the James Cameron. Well in 2021 we did Terminator 2 versus Titanic. These were revisits. Yes, we had seen. We'd both obviously seen these films many times and that was an interesting conversation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was good. And that was also great prep for one battle after another.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, seriously, it's a really good point. It also was great prep for the kind of return of James Cameron because the following year he made the Way of Water and Cameron kind of reemerged as a big figure in the world of movies. Right before that, 2022, we did Fargo versus the English patient, which was a swap of also films we had seen before, but I had not seen the English Patient. You had seen Fargo, as I recall.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, of course. I like. I like Fargo very much. You know, I just also. I do like the English Patient. And I thought that Seinfeld episode was rude.

[Sean Fennese]

I thought the English Patient was okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know you were mean about it. You were just like, this is David Lean rip off. Which like, yeah, that's okay.

[Sean Fennese]

I know. And I really like Anthony Minguela.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And sometimes we just want to make good things again.

[Sean Fennese]

I do get that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also Ralph Fiennes. I mean, and Chris and Scott Thomas and the hair and the Herodotus and the wind. And the lamp has gone out and.

[Sean Fennese]

I'm just writing in the darkness.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The lamp has gone out and I am writing in the darkness is like the.

[Sean Fennese]

These are not insights. They're just things that are in the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, but they're well done. They're beautiful.

[Sean Fennese]

2023, we had a three way movie swap. A Minaj, you might say, with Bobby Wagner, the late, great Bobby Wagner. Where are you, Bobby? Bobby, I hope you're well. Casablanca, which Bob had never seen. The in laws, which I think neither of you guys had seen. And Spy Kids, which we had not seen before. Correct. Spy Kids. I say this with affection. A Gen Z classic from Bob. That was a fun episode. And then for some reason we stopped doing these episodes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, Bob's last episode was like a one way movie swap, which was Shrek and which we had seen but that we revisited and took seriously. And now I text Bobby about Shrek anytime I encounter it in the world. I also need to text him about Spongebob, I think.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, yeah, he knows about that. Craig Horlbeck also knows about that. Craig Horlbeck and Bob were the two people who were like SpongeBob to me is basically Han Solo in 2017, when they first started working here, and that was when I knew I was getting older. That was a critical moment in my life.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're special people.

[Sean Fennese]

Um, yeah, Bob might have to come.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Back for Shrek 5, but it's not till next year. Right. They pushed it to 2027, did they? I believe so. Shrek 5. 2027, yeah. Shrek 5.

[Sean Fennese]

Delete.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because didn't they have to like redo? Are they redoing the animation? Because no one liked how it looked?

[Sean Fennese]

Like, is that true?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know whether I'm making that up. No.

[Sean Fennese]

You mean they don't like how that's what happened with the first movie? No, first movie they were like, well, we got to improve the animation quality. And then Shrek 2.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Much better. Okay, so I'm reading Shrek 5 release date to June 2027. June.

[Sean Fennese]

That's a long ways away.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, what will we do as part of the new movie? It doesn't. It doesn't say any. It doesn't say anything. So maybe I'm just remembering from the first movie. And then also, what was the recent. Was it Sonic who they redid?

[Sean Fennese]

Yes. The fan outcry. Yes. And then that honestly turned out to be a great choice because they redesigned the Sonic character and now they've made three Sonic movies which have made a shit ton of money.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I saw the first one at the arclight.

[Sean Fennese]

It was not bad for a kid's movie. I wonder if Alice would like that. Sonic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. Do you want to bring that into your life?

[Sean Fennese]

Well, that's an on ramp to Jim Carrey. So then how do we get more into Jim Carrey in my house? That could be good. I bought the Star wars encyclopedia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh.

[Sean Fennese]

Which is like this big. And we just look at it every day. We just go through every character, but there's a lot of spoilers in it. We haven't finished the films. But, God, Star wars, it's so good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you sure that I can't just bring my children over to your house during the super bowl and they can just all look at the Star wars encyclopedia?

[Sean Fennese]

I don't want your animals tearing this beautiful book apart. Sy, I don't think. I'm not sure if he can. No, I don't think he can trust him with this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't think Sy will ever be allowed to read a book. Bless him.

[Sean Fennese]

Knox would enjoy it. It's very colorful and interesting and complicated. Okay, so we've done these movie swaps in the past, in part to kind of share something with each other, and this is a proper movie swap. You've not seen the movie and I've not seen the movie before, and they are, I think, in some ways very indicative of our taste. Is that fair to say?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennese]

Maybe a little complicated on the Mamma Mia side.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, there's. I mean, there's a lot going on there. Mamma Mia came up and was, I think, the inspiration for 2008, because we've been talking about Amanda Seyfried a lot because of her work in the Housemaid and Testament of Anne Lee. We were hoping she would get an Oscar nomination. We're big fans and you have just not seen any of her core work, including both Mamma Mia. And Les Miserables.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, well, now I have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And so Mamma Mia kept coming up and then I think so I have seen both Mamma Mia's. There are certain parts of the Mamma Mia films that are very important to me. Like is it on a level with Sense and Sensibility? Let me be clear.

[Sean Fennese]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is it as important to me as Sense and Sensibility or Four Weddings and a Funeral or, you know, any of those? No, but it's pop. Culturally significant.

[Sean Fennese]

It is. So I feel that the Strangers is too, though definitely not at the same level. And I chose the Strangers for a couple of reasons. One of them is a thematic idea that I think is really interesting that that like crosses over here. The other thing is that I feel like this is quite possibly one of the most influential horror movies of this century. Now that doesn't mean I think it's one of the best. It doesn't mean I think it is a movie without flaw. I do think it's very artful and interesting and I think it maybe doesn't get as much love as it did for like a 5 to 10 year period of time because so many people have been ripping it off in recent years. And it of course is iterating on like a huge part of horror history too, and real life crime history. But I thought it would be an interesting one for you to watch because it is not supernatural and it is not. It is really more in the realm of what we've talked about that you enjoy or at least can find kind of interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm affected by it. It's not supernatural and it's not gory. Yes, it is. It is fucked up with respect. And I was like. I really liked it and I was also really messed up by it and almost texted you several times being like, fuck you.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, yeah, it is a fuck you kind of a movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But in a way that I did enjoy. I didn't feel sometimes when things get too gory or too supernatural, it's not that I'm scared of them, I'm irritated. And so I think what I've learned as I've watched more and more horror movies is that it's actually not fear that is my issue. It's just things I don't really like watching. Discomfort, just like grossness. I'm just. I'm irritated. And I was not irritated by this. I was scared. But Not. But really enjoyed it.

[Sean Fennese]

So it's unusual that it's a 2008 movie. Apparently this movie was shot in 2006, 2007 and just sat on the shelf for a year. So it's just by circumstance that it kind of. And I was just looking at a long list of.08 movies and that's how I landed on the Strangers. And so by circumstance we come to talk about it. But it is written and directed by Brian Bertino. It is his directorial debut. It's one of the first scripts he wrote. He submitted it to the Nickel Fellowship or Nickel Grant contest. I think he came in third place. But it got noticed. He got a call from super producer Roy Lee, who's gone on to be arguably the most successful independent producer in Hollywood. Last year he was behind Minecraft and Weapons and he's like kind of world class at locating material and getting in early with young talent. But. So this was an example of. He read the script. He thought the script was good. He brought it in. The movie is. Got a very small cast. It basically has only three actors of note in it. It's about a couple, Kristen and James, who are expecting a relaxing weekend in a family vacation home. But after a wedding one night where a kind of awkward situation happens between them, they find at 3 o' clock in the morning, a knock at their door. 4:00 clock in the morning, a knock at their door from a strange woman who stands in the shadows who is looking for a friend. This is the first of several encounters with strangers in the neighborhood who then ultimately come to haunt and terrorize them throughout the evening. So you said that you enjoyed it. Yeah, I. I'll put my. I'll. I'll just go first. Very quickly. I saw this movie in movie theaters. I didn't really know anything about it. I'd seen the trailer and that was it. And I was deeply affected by it because it is extremely unnerving with no knowledge and no information and because of kind of where horror was at this time and what it was favoring, which was a lot of like very slick remakes of horror classics. This was at a time when like Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake was happening, the Nightmare on Elm street remake was happening. The Last House on the Left remake was happening. This kind of Platinum Dunes era. Plus there was also a kind of torture porn. Saw Hostel, you know, those films were also very popular in the horror mainstream.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And this is a year after the Funny Games remake.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes, exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which is notable.

[Sean Fennese]

Totally. And we can talk about Funny Games too here. And kind of like the ways in which they're similar and the ways in which they are polar opposites.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

But unlike funny games, this movie could not be less meta. It is a pure experiential movie of what? How would you feel if this happened to you? And it just hit me very hard. The other reason why I thought it would be good to talk about it is the third Strangers movie comes out this weekend.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, it does? Oh, Katie McNabb is going to be so excited.

[Sean Fennese]

She's been enjoying it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She texts me all the time being like, why aren't you watching the Strangers? This is one of my best friends.

[Sean Fennese]

That's so funny to me because I honestly think those movies are like, unwatchable. They're like. They're remake slash origin stories behind this Strangers movie. There was a sequel to this movie in 2014.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's the problem. We don't need an origins. Right. Well, let's.

[Sean Fennese]

I agree. That's part of what is so great about this movie. So this movie is. It kind of exists out of nowhere.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

And it is. It leaves you feeling unsettled. And that's it. So, you know, tell me what else you thought about it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So this movie is about the scariest thing of all is like, not knowing. Not knowing what's going on. Not knowing who's behind the mask, not knowing who's behind the door. Not knowing what's on the outside of the frame. Not knowing why two people can't get married. Not knowing why there's. There's so little exposition. There is almost.

[Sean Fennese]

Almost.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There is like 99% no origin story. And I want to talk about the 1% that comes in it. As you said, it's a pretty limited cast. Three people that you recognize. There are a few other people, but you only see them in masks. It uses shadows and like, and. And angles and doors and. And incredibly well constructed and edited. But it is as much about what you don't see as what you see. Um, and. And then what you do see is again, scary by, like this. This bareness and the. The not the not knowing who is behind that mask or, you know, where the. Where the person is. So I do think that that is. I thought it was effective. I appreciate it. Like, I was watching it and appreciating the filmmaking choices that they made, how they constructed it to. To be scary and. And found myself leaning forward several times being like, take off the mask. Take off the mask. Which is, you know, a credit to them being able to build the tension in that scene. And understand that primal urge, which is, like, what you really want is to know. And it is just so scary that you don't know. It's a very withholding film, like, both visually and emotionally. So, of course I loved it. And I mean, truly, like, if it were.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, it's so funny that you were just going off on your marriage jag. Cause, like, that's, like, kind of a. It's like the essential, motivating, emotional identity of the movie is this couple, played by Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler, who have come from a wedding that night. And Scott Speedman's character proposes to Liv Tyler's character that evening, and she declines. She turns him down. And then that sets this. This awkwardness, this tension between this couple who are returning to Scott Speedman's character's family, childhood vacation home.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

And that should be the safest place in the world.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it's. And it's staged for an acceptance. And there are rose petals and multiple bottles of champagne in the bathroom and also in the kitchen, which, you know, I had some questions about just, like, some bath bubbles, you know, and, like, it's. It's supposed to be a place of, like, warmth and celebration, and instead they're already, like, very remote and not speaking to each other. And the movie does a very smart thing with the Scott Speedman character, which it constructs in a way where you think it could be him for a while, and you're wondering whether this is a revenge for the fact that she said no.

[Sean Fennese]

And.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then that also sets up the ultimate reveal of what the movie is about, in that it's like. It's not really about revenge at all. It's about. It's about nothing. It's random. It's that you don't know.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So, yeah, I thought it was gnarly and cool.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, it's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Masks are scary. I don't. They are scary, and they're used. Well, here they are.

[Sean Fennese]

So there are three strangers who come to this home. They all wear masks of a certain kind. The. The lead stranger, the tall male stranger, wears a kind of sack mask that recalls, like, the town that dreaded sundown. There's, like. It's a. It's a callback to, like, some other scary mask you might see in movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, it's, like, familiar, but it's also not like the ghost face mask, like, commercialized into, like, total oblivion at this point. You're still. There's. There is one shot where Liv Tyler's in the kitchen, and then he, like, shows up in the hallway and just absolutely terrifying.

[Sean Fennese]

The one early on and early on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When you see him and it's amazing and, and, and you know, I was both very afraid and also like, wow, bravo. Filmmaking in that moment. So this was a cool movie for me to understand kind of like, you know, how composition and what you see and pacing and editing like are, are essential to a horror film.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, it's a really thin movie, purposefully, very spare. It kind of does recall some of those like 70s elevated grindhouse movies where it's like, we only have so much money, we only have so much time. You know, Liv Tyler and Scott Speedman at this time were like pretty well known. Scott Speedman from Felicity. Liv Tyler, you know, had been the star of many movies up until this point. Not exactly the most like deep and considered roles. Liv Tyler is either whispering or screaming at the top of her lungs in this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, I had to turn up the volume so, so high at home, the sound transfer or whatever, that obviously I was just streaming.

[Sean Fennese]

But do you think I was thinking about this while revisiting it yesterday? Do you think the movie is better or worse if it's unknown actors that we've never seen before?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I, Amanda watching, would think it's worse because I am curious about, I have relationships to Scott Speedman and to Liv Tyler and I'm curious about what's going on with them. And they are also very beautiful, very watchable. And it's not that you couldn't find beautiful, unknown people, but there is something about, you know, my interest in celebrity is a little about, is related. Right. Because I like, I just like want to know everything about all these people that I have that I don't know, but who are, you know, shiny and famous or what have you. I mean, I think that that is what animates celebrity, what animates movie stars. There is something that you're trying to crack about these people. So I think using Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler, two beautiful people who you do have some sort of relationship to, compliments the themes of the movie.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, I think I agree and I disagree on the one hand that definitely you get more emotionally invested because you're like, please do not kill Liv Tyler. This is very important to me that the star of the Aerosmith videos from the 90s not die on screen. On the other hand, I do think that the movie has such a kind of out of nowhere quality that it's the only thing that makes it feel like Hollywood product. Like everything else about it, it's very, you know, it's pretty slick in terms of how it's made, and it's very professional. It's not like a cheapo movie. But because of the kind of. The resistance to sharing really very much information at all is totally its magic trick. It's part of what makes it such an effective film. You know, you sometimes get taken out of it when I'm like, scott Speedman is, like, the most handsome guy of all time. Like, this is, like, a little hard to accept that these insanely. I know. I'm sure you enjoyed it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And Liv Tyler being very beautiful, and then changing into her 2007 plaid shirt, which I also laughed a lot at.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, that was nice.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I thought about wearing a plaid shirt, and then I was like, I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

[Sean Fennese]

Not a plaid guy myself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's back.

[Sean Fennese]

It's back.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Excuse me. It's back. Indie sleaze is back. All, you know, et cetera.

[Sean Fennese]

That's how I know you were having dinner with Yossi Salik last night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, that's just the Internet. Once again, I, like everyone else, am on Instagram.

[Sean Fennese]

That's what we're so excited about. Indie sleaze. The other thing about the movie, Portino never made a movie before, and tremendously confident in the filmmaking style and also confident telling the story the way that he wanted to. Apparently, multiple people were offered this movie in the year after he sold it, and Universal didn't want to let him direct it. I think Mark Romanek, the music video director, was gonna come along and take a shot at it, but he wanted it to be, like, a slightly bigger movie. He wanted to make it as a $40 million movie, and they didn't want to, and it works so much better. And there's a couple. There's a lot of interesting academic writing about this movie, especially when it began to emerge as a cult hit. Some of the writing is sort of like. There are two ways of looking at horror in the aftermath of 9 11. One is that the kind of, like, viscera of the torture porn era is this manifestation of us watching these epic tragedies that cost so many lives, and that there's kind of no way to cope with the immense pain that so many people were feeling in the country in the sense of disillusionment and sadness. And so the only way to kind of push through that is, like, revenge and gore. And then there's another aspect of it that is sort of like, this is a movie about being in the wrong Place at the wrong time. Right. That's what a lot of the sort of criticism hones in on is the randomness of violence in the world. And that sometimes you can just get hit by a car driven by a drunk driver and that's the end of your life. And like there's no way to control that kind of tragedy in the world. And this movie's kind of about that. And it's killer's motivations are fascinating because they are like a nothingness. They are. It's not even a nihilism. It's like they have their own mission, but that mission is born of just violence, just the kind of amusement, maybe, but there's not a lot of. They're not laughing, gleeful killers. They're not. But they do seem to be getting something out of this psychological experiment that they're inflicting upon this couple throughout this night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, though they really. They wear the masks throughout. They don't get the reveal. And I did, you know, watching there is a climactic scene where the closest you. An explanation of sorts is finally given. And it's daylight also. And as I was watching, I said, I was like, oh, they filmed it where they take the masks off. And then they realized in edit that it's more powerful. You never see their faces. Well, I watch it and then I read online. I mean, you know, this is half baked Internet research, but that, that is the case where in edit they discovered that it makes more sense. There was just something about the cutting and the way that people are like they're not in the frame that they, you know, that they would be. I think that's totally right. The right decision and like a cool understanding of what your film is achieving. And editing is filmmaking too, so that's great, but. So you purposely don't get anything of the characters except of what's in their masks or them from behind and the strangers. That is. And there is, you know, one incredibly scary thing seen, I think, where the man in the mask, like sits at the table and I guess he's reflecting for a moment, but for the most part, otherwise they're just like running around or on the hunt. They're not really people, they're just sort of chess pieces. They are masks. And your inability to understand what they're doing is the point. And what's scary about them.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, they're really interesting avatars for this idea too. Because a lot of horror movies, as we've talked about ad nauseam in the last 10 years, go to great lengths to psychologize intent and rationalize trauma and why they lead to these terrible acts. Which is kind of valid, but is really overdone, I think, as a style.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Choice now and would absolutely ruin this movie.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, that's what I was gonna say is like, so the movie. Bertino says that the Manson family Tate murders were a big inspiration for this, but I find that very unsatisfying as an idea. And I think maybe he realized in the edit perhaps that, like, to remove as much motivation and even humanity as possible would be valuable because we know a lot about the Manson family murders now. And while they were maniacal and conspiracy laden and driven by a, you know, mental imbalance and drug use and all of these things that were happening inside of that cult, there was, like, intent, you know, there was. It was like, we're going to this house on purpose because these people live there, whereas this is just like, who's home?

[Amanda Dobbins]

And also we're like writing things on the walls and there is some sort of mythology. Yeah, it is. I mean, I do think. Can, like, can we talk about the ending? Can we. So the, the explanation or like the final moment, whatever reason is given is, you know, Liv Tyler says, like, why are you doing this to us? And the woman who. I believe that's Gemma Ward, the model, one of the two women is Gemma Ward, and I think it's her. She's still in a mask.

[Sean Fennese]

And she says, yes, doll face, yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because you were home. Which is definitely, like the best possible explanation that the movie can give. Because there is no because. You don't want an origin story. You don't want a real reason. I think no answer would have been better, personally, still. Because I still think that is the one moment where it tips and it is. I mean, there is an answer. The answer is just like randomness. But that, but even. Even having an answer kind of steps on the toad of the not knowingness, which is the most terrifying part of the movie. And if it had been completely ambiguous, if you don't get an answer, then you're just like, what the fuck?

[Sean Fennese]

Which, Right. If they had said nothing in the face of that question, that might have been fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I think the movie itself, it seems to be this kind of rejection of a lot of horror movie strategy in the previous years where, like, a lot of horror movies are basically showing the transgressions, especially slashers. They're showing the transgressions of other people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

Like you had sex or you were mean, you were a bully, or you were, you know, if you look at Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm street and the way, the way that teenagers do things they're not supposed to do and then they get punished for it. And this is not that. And I guess you could say maybe like there's. This movie is trying to explore something about the fractured nature of this relationship. And then this is a kind of outsized aftermath of two people who are not able to make it work. And, you know, it's just a psychological exploration of a broken relationship. I guess that's one way you can kind of see the movie. But it's still using like core horror. Examine core horror tropes to get you, like, emotionally scared, you know, making sure that the person is staying safe or not safe. So I don't know, it's like, it's a pretty rich movie for an 81 minute slasher that ends somewhat unsatisfyingly, but very bleakly in a way that is kind of inspiring to me. You know, the Universal Studios would put out a movie, a super short, grisly horror movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not that. I mean, I've seen worse.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, I guess the final kill is very. Actually I watched the unrated version. I don't remember. Maybe it is more intense than what you saw. The unrated version, particularly the final deaths.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, you see more knives. You don't actually see a lot in the version that I saw or the version that was really.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, that kind of does, but.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That also at the end, for the most part, it's just an hour. Like, you know, Glenn Haron gets his face shot up. But like, whatever that's. You don't even see that much of. It's not that scary. You know, the rest of it is smoke detectors and cell phones and, and like running and, and smashing car windows. It's not really that bloody.

[Sean Fennese]

Do you get scared when you're alone in your house?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not anymore. I did though. I should, because, like, I was like, I don't live alone anymore. Even when Zach's gone, I'm with the two kids, but then I'm responsible for them, so maybe I should be more scared. And we also still live on a hill. Our last house that you, you remember, we lived on it on a hill. And you had to have like come upstairs. And so there was this sense of like, once you, like, you were trapped up on a hill, there was like no escape sort of. And we did like, someone came up to the stairs once and was like, they weren't trying to like break in. I don't know. The person wasn't well, but. And I was home alone and that was very scary. And I was thinking a lot about that moment while watching the Strangers. So yeah, I guess. But no, for the most part I'm just like, yeah, I can do whatever I want.

[Sean Fennese]

I feel awesome. It's funny, I think one of the things that the movie does so well is that it isolates sound. Particularly that first knock that comes from the man in the mask. That is not the girl when we first see her. That just a very small, simple choice. A single knock at a door at 4:30 in the morning can be the most upsetting thing that could possibly happen to you. And there are a couple of needle drops in the movie that also kind of unnerve you as you go. But for the most part, like there's not a lot of score. There's not a lot of ambient sound. There's hardly any dialogue in the movie and it holds you pretty tight.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It communicates space really well because you do feel immediately that sense of there's nowhere to go. Like these characters are trapped and they even like they do go outside, which is just like really stupid. But you know, as, as these things are. But I will say, you know, I know, I know it's the. That like don't do that is a core part of horror movies and they're always supposed to make mistakes. But I even found like the mistakes that these characters make, whether it's like going outside or it's Scott Speedman going on a Drive at 5 in the morning.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, that's the one that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's stupid, but I thought it was to make me think Scott Speedman was the guy in the match.

[Sean Fennese]

It is and it is. It's a little bit of just a movie moment. So I just rewatched this movie called Nightmares, which is like 1980s omnibus horror movie. And in the very first sequence, it's a 20 minute short film basically about a killer on the loose in a small town. And a woman, a mother of two, is a smoker and it's past 11pm and she really wants to go get cigarettes. And the killers on the loose, they've just watched a news report in their home and she's like, I just fucking need cigarettes. I just have to go get cigarettes. And she leaves against the wishes of her husband in that scene. Obviously we know what happens to her after that. So it's like that's, that's just a trope and.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, totally, I got that too. But even as I was like thinking through the structure and like the. And I do have notes for Scott Speedman's character, but that one, I was like, oh, I see why the movie did that. Because I wasn't sure. I was like. And. And I. I think I ultimately landed on the side of. I don't think it's him because the movie is doing such a specific job of having him. I. Like he's on screen or the man in the mask is on screen for such a long time.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes, yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I credit them for that. And I was like, I. I don't. I don't know if that many people watching this are taking the puzzle pieces apart as they are. I do that also when I'm scared. I'm like, if I focus on the mechanics of this, then I won't have to be terrified and sit in these emotions.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. I just think leaving my.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I mean, you can't do that.

[Sean Fennese]

Non fiance at 3:30 in the morning to go get a pack of cigarettes in the middle of nowhere. That's just not really how I want to start.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She just really wants to start, though. This is another question I have. I just. So I do think the film communicates the space of the house and just outside the house and that they're trapped and just that, you know, it implies that someone is just on the other side of the door. And you really do feel that in such an intense way. Very well. I'm not clear on the geography of the rest of the neighborhood. And it's like, you see houses that are like, way closer. You see street lights. Like, are we really in the middle of nowhere? I don't, I'm. That. I don't know.

[Sean Fennese]

I. It's unclear. It's unclear what state they're in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

Do we even know what state they're in?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was filmed in South Carolina and it did. It did. I wondered if it was like, Atlanta adjacent because the houses at the beginning looked familiar.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or, you know, like, I was style.

[Sean Fennese]

How would you have felt if you'd been proposed to at a wedding?

[Amanda Dobbins]

So this is one of my notes. I mean, the, the biggest note is just like, no one, but especially not Liv Tyler is saying yes to that ring. That is. That's very pathetic. And if you. Your family has a vacation house, it's like.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, it's a cabin in the woods. Well handed down from Generations.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It has a fireplace and, you know.

[Sean Fennese]

And they've got Joanna Newsom on vinyl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's true. And they have like a, you know, a rifle in the. In the closet, so. And a Lot of shoes. A lot of shoes for a vacation house. So maybe they also have an heirloom. I just, you know in the sex. In the Sex and the City, when Aiden proposes with like a pear shaped diamond.

[Sean Fennese]

I do remember that. Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that's like a. That's like a tough. And it's a tough look.

[Sean Fennese]

What's the ideal shape for a diamond?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Not pear shaped. And also this just looks like he bought it in a gumball machine.

[Sean Fennese]

The diamond that I got for Eileen when I proposed is in the shape of Babu Frick. So I'm really proud of that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I like him.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. But it was naturally occurring, you know, it wasn't like no one shaped it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Into Babu Rosamund Pike. And now you see. Me too. Set you up at that. Oh, that's beautiful. No conflict there. Um, so, yeah, that ring, that's sort of a non starter situation. And then it seems like the proposal is impromptu, but it isn't because he.

[Sean Fennese]

Has the plan back at home. It just seems like he's a little bit of a fumbler.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it's. No, it seems like I can't tell whether he was planning to propose like at home.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, at home.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then he was just like too small.

[Sean Fennese]

Spirit of romance in the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And so he proposes in a parking lot. He does have the ring on him, though. I thought that was just sort of like a security safety thing. Do you remember, like the weekend that. So my husband proposed to me after a group vacation that we all took. And he said that he was just like hiding the ring in different parts of our vacation house.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. I did a similar thing throughout the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Week, which is psychotic and wouldn't help at all.

[Sean Fennese]

But I tried to keep my. The one before I propose, like in my breast pocket as often as I could.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, like for as many hours a day as I could without it seemingly dangerous.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which is like probably the only foolproof way to make sure that.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, I was like, this is the most valuable thing I've ever been near in my life, but times many thousands.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I'm fine with him having it on his person. But it does seem like the parking lot proposal was like a little rushed.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And all we find out is that she just says, I'm not ready.

[Sean Fennese]

Isn't it so encouraging when you see such beautiful people also be so fumbling at romance? I think that's also one of the tricks of romcoms where it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter if you look like Julia Roberts. It's still fucking hard. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then. So that's tough.

[Sean Fennese]

You think he should have died because of that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I don't think she should have. I don't think she should have died either. I do think, like, the going outside.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know what he's thinking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. It's like. It's a real defend the perimeter situation. You know? Like, I just. You gotta. Also, half the time she's leaving the door, and the door is not locked. I was like, man, what are you doing?

[Sean Fennese]

Here's a tactical question for you. Someone comes into your home, an intruder, you're well within your rights to kill that person.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. All right.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, to defend yourself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. Legally speaking. Yeah. Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

Within your home.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Not staying on the property.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

And Scott Speedman is, like, definitely hiding. I'm not saying that's a just law. I don't even know. I don't even understand the law.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

I am saying that that is a true fact. If they come after you defend yourself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The CIA defunded, funded the super bowl and.

[Sean Fennese]

Sean, did I get this law wrong?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is your defense lawyer for all.

[Sean Fennese]

Did I get this law wrong?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, keep going.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't think you have the right to kill the person. You have the right to defend yourself. And Scott Speedman is like, I'm gonna see if I can kind of bob and weave here a little bit. Like, I'm gonna see if I can kind of dance through the raindrops in the movie. Like, he's not willing to kind of get after it. What's he so afraid of? You know, he's gonna get killed anyway if he doesn't take care of this situation. This guy's wearing a fucking mask over his head.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's just a real, like, barricade the home situation. I like.

[Sean Fennese]

What are you. With what? Just with furniture. Furniture. With that Joanna Newsom vinyl with, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Other, you know, blunt instruments. I don't know. Start dragging. They don't even try to block the door.

[Sean Fennese]

This couple had awesome taste in music.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Merle Haggard, Gillian Welch, Billy Bragg and Wilco.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Where are these records coming from? Richard Buckner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. It's like, I do feel that the. Well, at some point, the strangers start putting them on, which is also funny.

[Sean Fennese]

That's right. That's right. So they also have great taste. They're like, now it's time for Merle Haggard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're working with what's there.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. But, you know, Mama tried as like the closing haunting jam. You know, it's kind of. That's a tough one. So this movie made $85 million.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Great.

[Sean Fennese]

It did launch a sequel which came six years later, which Bertino wrote and I assume was rewritten and had a different director. Actually, the director, I believe, was Johannes Roberts, who just directed Primate, which came out this year. But then two years ago, Renny Harlan started making these new strangers movies, which Katie loves, and I love Katie, but they stink. Madeline Petch.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Katie has a letterbox star, so you can let her know.

[Sean Fennese]

My letterbox? Yeah, yeah, if she. If she'd have me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She also has some notes about the app design, but, you know, that's her.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, she knows a lot about us, so I understand that Letterboxd, they're doing great. Yeah, they're crushing it. But, you know, Katie's notes might be helpful. How many stars would you give this one letterboxd.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Three and a half.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay. Pretty good. Yeah, not bad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Positive.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. Bertino has had kind of an odd career, I would say. I thought he was going to be one of the most significant horror directors of his generation. And he's worked, but has never really kind of reached the mountaintop again. He made a movie in 2014 called Mockingbird, which I never saw. He made a. A 24 thriller called the Monster in 2016, which was kind of little scene. 2020's the Dark and the Wicked is probably his second best feature, which is a similarly unnerving domestic horror starring Marin Ireland that Sierra and I both really like. And then last year he made a movie called Vicious, which was not very good, very disappointing. It went straight to streaming.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it's tough that this movie is about doing as little as possible. Right. It's no gilded lilies and that is what makes it successful. So it is really hard to revisit the. Well when spareness is the signature of the achievement.

[Sean Fennese]

It is. It is. It's so interesting that a movie like this becomes ip to me, the whole point of it is that it shouldn't. It should just sit alone on a shelf and be a scary thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

2026, baby, you know, everything is IP.

[Sean Fennese]

You're feeling good. You think it's been a good year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, awesome. I'm thriving.

[Sean Fennese]

Let's pivot to Mamma Mia. This is another 2008 film directed by Felidia Lloyd. It's based on the 1999 stage musical Mamma Mia. Which is of course built around the epic pop catalog of abba. Katherine Johnson adapted the show for a screenplay it stars Meryl Streep, Pierce Brosnan, Colin Firth, Stellan Skarsgrd, Julie Walters, Dominic Cooper, Amanda Seyfried and Christine Baranski. What a castle. Benny Anderson and Bjorn Olveias from ABBA composed the score of this film. And the story is such. Donna, an independent hotelier in the Greek islands.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I also read that on Google and laughed.

[Sean Fennese]

Preparing for her daughter's wedding with the help of two old friends. Meanwhile, Sophie, the spirited blonde daughter, has a plan. She secretly invites three men from her mother's past in hope of meeting her real father and having him escort her down the aisle on her big day. I ask myself this. What did I think of Mamma Mia?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

I've never seen a film be so good and so bad simultaneously. And I completely understand the phenomenon of this movie. I'm actually willing to join the cult. But it is extremely important to talk about the myriad ways in which this movie also kind of stinks. And it's such a fascinating paradox, such.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A lot woven into the text of the film, not unlike the songs of ABBA themselves.

[Sean Fennese]

It's a fair point. That's a good place to start.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is a film that is very aesthetically and spiritually in tune with its source material being the incandescent, inescapable, wonderful, and also really stupid songs of abba.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes, the pop junk genius of abba.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Which is like, I would say a group that I. I wouldn't say I have no relationship to it, but they were never my guys, in the parlance of Marc Maron, my guys and gals. But if the actual song Mamma Mia. Comes on, or Dancing Queen, or if you're at a wedding and a song like that hits you dance. They're fun. My daughter has gotten very interested in the music of ABBA for a variety of reasons. And like money. Money, for example, is a song she knows the words to. Her friends at school sing the song. Okay, so, you know, tremendously infectious. As legible to a 4 year old as to a 43 year old. Yeah, it persists. Right. Like they continue. Isn't there a big ABBA show in Vegas right now?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think there was also some hologram type stuff for a while. I haven't really investigated what's going on there. Maybe we can go in April. Let's see.

[Sean Fennese]

Let's look into it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Las Vegas, because, you know, 2020 is a. You know who else loves ABBA?

[Sean Fennese]

Who's that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Craig Horlbrecht.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or if he doesn't love abba then. It's a running joke on the town, right?

[Sean Fennese]

Right. No, he does. It's his favorite group of all time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, Ultimate ABBA tribute. ABBA Kadabra. Wow.

[Sean Fennese]

Is that ABBA with magic?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I don't think so, but we'll see anyway.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, ABBA's fine. They have a lot of songs that are very fun. That's basically how I come to this movie. The movie itself has an ingenious premise. Ingenious, yeah. The actual direction of the film is some of the worst I've ever seen.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's quite poor.

[Sean Fennese]

This is Felidia Lloyd's first movie and her last movie, I believe. And she's a theater director and a seasoned theater director. Celebrated, has had a lot of success in the theater. It has so many famous people and so much charisma and so much natural winning charm.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She directed the Iron lady, so Meryl Streep had such a wonderful time.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay, that tells me a lot. Thank you for filling in that gap. Another movie that is so poorly directed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And Mamma Mia. Here we go again.

[Sean Fennese]

She didn't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, she didn't?

[Sean Fennese]

No, Ol Parker.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Ol Parker did. You're right.

[Sean Fennese]

Which is an important thing because she very clearly was replaced for a reason. But the movie is so winning and everyone is having so much fun. And it's in Greece. They shot on location in Greece. And it's a movie that while I was watching it. So I'll set the scene. I had a psychotic movie day two days ago. Here was the movie day that I had. Okay. I've been meaning to do our buddy Tim Symonds and Matt Walsh's podcast Second in Command and. And they talk about movies with presidents in them. I've been telling him for. For a year that I want to do the show. I told him I would do Lincoln.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

I hadn't been able to do it for months and months. And finally I was like, I'll do it on this Wednesday.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

So at 2pm I watch Lincoln. I'm watching Lincoln.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Eileen texts me and she's like, if you're going to do Mamma Mia, we want to do it with you. Alice loves abba. We're trying to get her into even more live action movies now. I was like, okay, if you guys get home at 4:30, I can watch Mamma Mia from 4:30 to 6:18. And then I gotta drive to Warner Brothers to go do to moderate a conversation for one battle after another.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

So they get home at 4:30 on the dot. They walk in Alice sits down on the couch and we fire up Mamma Mia. We watch Mamma Mia. The whole time. I was like, I wish we had a bottle of wine open.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

And I couldn't do that because I had to go and do the one battle thing, which was amazing. And you know, honestly one of the most fun things I've done in a long time. And you know, so to watch. First of all, I watch three movies in a row, which is something I do often, but maybe not in quite this way with this level of like compact stress. But Mamma Mia. Is not a movie where you really need to be like locked into the performances and character motivations and the dynamics of the filmmaking. It's a hangout, fun movie. It's a movie that like, you should just get up and dance during.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

And you can kind of like walk around and go get a snack and pour yourself a glass of wine. So like immediately when it was over, Eileen said to me, like, we should probably just like watch that again in a slightly different way. I didn't have enough time to do that before this episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do actually, like, the movie was such a theatrical sensation, but to be like locked in my chair I think would be maybe not my favorite way to see this. And I contrast that with the Strangers where I was like sitting in a movie kit for 79 minutes. Like, what is going to happen to these people? This is a very different vibe. It's so loose. Movies are very rarely this loose.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean it is really built around the songs and the song performances, especially the last 30 minutes where it's just like there's two lines of dialogue before they segue into like, Take a Chance on Me or whatever. And you're, you're thrilled because Julie Walters gets to, gets her moment to do Take a Chance on Me. It's very funny and the, the movie is, is very knowing throughout, which is something I like about it. But that's when it really just winks of like, okay, like, how are we gonna get all of these songs in this, in this puzzle? So I think, you know, I. People seem to really like concert films and people seem to really like movie musicals. And that's what this is. And it is so like song and set piece based that everything in between. I agree. Looks and is completely silly and under baked and not even like there's not really any acting going on here.

[Sean Fennese]

I, I think Amanda Seyfan, Amanda Seyfried is giving it her all.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's.

[Sean Fennese]

She's giving it her all.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's the best part of this.

[Sean Fennese]

She's the best part of the movie. She is by far the best singer in the cast. She is very game for the part. You can see this is her kind of like realizing that this is her moment. Right. It's shortly after Mean Girls. I think it's right before in time. It is right before in time. And Jennifer's body. I was gonna say. And she's kind of like, she's going for the brass ring. She's playing Meryl Streep's daughter. She's in a movie with Meryl Streep, Colin Firth, Pierce Brosnan and Stone Skarsgard. She's like. And Julie Walters and Christine Baranski. She's going for it. And she's giving a very sincere and kind of winning performance. It's the kind of character that she's very good at. Right. Where it's like kind of dewy eyed for two straight hours. Her character's motivations, are they coherent? If you were in her situation, is this how you would want to find out who your dad is? In a kind of like, you know, match game style revelation? Are you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Again, this gets back to like our. Should we be getting married? She's 20 in the film and she's marrying Dominic Cooper.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. I gotta say, I think his character's quite logical in the film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

I think he makes a lot of good points. He's got a lot of concerns about the way in which this family operates. And he's taken with her, obviously, and he wants to marry her. But he's like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

This is not a parlor game for you to figure out who your dad is. We're getting married, lady.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So I can't say I really relate to any of her decision making throughout the process. Whether it is a coup. Yeah. Whether it's getting married at 20 or inviting three men that she found in her mother's diary to her impromptu wedding.

[Sean Fennese]

Would you read your mom's diary?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I'm good. I realize this is. We don't have to, you know what the theme of this episode is?

[Sean Fennese]

What is it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

And like, what we've learned is that we don't actually need to know everything about each other.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is one of the. This is one of my, you know, my Italian therapist would sometimes be like, this is very American that you think you. And it was often like that you think you need to know everything or share everything.

[Sean Fennese]

You don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We don't need to know everything. I don't need to know.

[Sean Fennese]

I Know, but I'm, I, I'm an emotional detective. This is something that matters.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Are you?

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When you want to be.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And sometimes you're also an emotional. Like.

[Sean Fennese]

No, but it's. But you're talking about what you're experiencing from me. I'm talking about what's inside.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that you can either investigate or ignore what's going on with someone, depending on what suits for what.

[Sean Fennese]

Interesting. Yeah. Is that like a, like a baseless accusation?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I just, I'm like.

[Sean Fennese]

Like Harvey Weinstein. Like, who are you referring to?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, it's like if you need to do something and, and you need to do it, then maybe it doesn't matter what the other people feel.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. I mean, that is actually how the people in this film operate. Yeah, it is very true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, we all have to sometimes.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, yeah. Block out the bad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Bring in the good. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There you go.

[Sean Fennese]

Feel the flow. As they say In Happy Gilmore, 23 songs, they squeeze into this one hour and 42 minute movie. Kind of amazing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's great.

[Sean Fennese]

It's a great choice. Just like jukebox it the fuck out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The movie knows what it is and it is really famous. Accomplished actors who can't sing on vacation in Greece performing the songs of ABBA while slightly hungover. I was looking for the Internet research that, like, I don't know whether I made this. I don't think I made this up, but I couldn't find it that, that this movie, Meryl Streep and Christine Baranski and Julie Walters just treated as vacation, which like you would hope. And that there was not like a lot of like scene work, you know, or prep going in. And they were in Greece. And at least for the, you know, on location scenes, they also obviously constructed. Constructed a set at Pinewood. But yeah, I think everyone. Yeah, yeah, was having a good time.

[Sean Fennese]

No doubt.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that also, I think it infuses the performances.

[Sean Fennese]

So, yeah, you know, there's something also kind of like amazingly unglamorous about the performers in the movie that I really appreciate. They are beautiful actors, but, you know, the bulk of the cast is in middle age or older and the men are like a little bit flabbier than we're used to seeing them. And everybody's a little sunburnt and it does kind of feel like they've had a couple of glasses of wine while performing and you just. It's so unusual to experience a movie where everyone's kind of like, yeah, we're just winging it, you know, like, we're just. And now we're gonna sing this song over here. Like, it doesn't feel like a conventional Hollywood movie in that way, which I found very charming. I think it really, like, is. It's a. It's a. It's a feature and not a bug of the film. And it seems like they almost designed it to be that way. Or at least the performers knew what they were doing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

As I say, Amanda Seyfried is kind of like. She's going for it, and she's, like, looking sincerely into Pierce Brosnan's eyes and trying to, you know, ascertain the truth of her heritage. But everybody else is just like, yeah, past the Courvoisier. Right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, here comes some people out of the One Lagoon that we could film on.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This is. That. This is my one note. It's like, they didn't really use, like, the full breadth of the island.

[Sean Fennese]

How would they have done that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not my one note. I don't know. It's just. It's.

[Sean Fennese]

I have a few notes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's the same pier, you know, and the same One Lagoon.

[Sean Fennese]

One thing about movie musicals, I want to talk about them just a bit. The reason that I have not seen this film and that I have not seen Les Mis and that I have not seen the Greatest Showman.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Have you seen Les Mis, the Musical?

[Sean Fennese]

I have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennese]

It's not my favorite.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Because you don't believe that the French people should be free.

[Sean Fennese]

Should be free. I don't. I think they should be imprisoned by a fascist state. No. I think there is something about the tone, color, and execution of modern musicals that I find a little off putting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I 1000% agree with you.

[Sean Fennese]

It's not across the board. West side Story, Spielberg's film. I think that's one of the best movie musicals of the last 50 years. I think there's, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but that is adapting an older musical. And I do think the source material is very important and that I didn't.

[Sean Fennese]

Love in the Heights, but I liked it. You know, it's not across the board for me. Obviously, we did not enjoy Wicked, and we've talked about a great many movie musicals on the show over the last.

[Amanda Dobbins]

10 years, but I think many of them are just that at a certain point, the source material becomes like, the books and songs of modern musicals don't sit well with me.

[Sean Fennese]

And just the writing and performance.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The writing and, like, this song style, like, you know, people feel that the songs of Wicked are very Good.

[Sean Fennese]

And, yeah, I find that a little strange.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I don't.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, that's not true. I find a couple of them are good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Defying Gravity is good, and Popular is fine, but they. But they are like a musical style all. All of their own, which is a little saccharine, a little showy. Like, the arrangements are of a piece.

[Sean Fennese]

I'm by no means an expert in this field, so I'm not gonna. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to pretend that I am, but there is something about the onset of the Andrew Lloyd Webber era of Broadway musicals that is not really my flavor. And everything feels since then to be a kind of, like, escalation in terms of the scope and the intensity of what the show is supposed to be. And I would much prefer Sondheim, but Sondheim is almost never adapted for movie musicals, which is an interesting thing. Obviously, Linklater is in the midst of doing Merrily We Roll along, but, I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Mean, Meryl Streep was Into the Woods. Was in and into the Woods.

[Sean Fennese]

She was another show that I don't really care for that much, but that had more to do with Rob Marshall than it did the actual show itself. So I skipped those movies in part because I'm like, there's just a very low likelihood I'm gonna like this. When this movie came out, I had no professional obligation to go see it. Eileen not really an ABBA person, so she wasn't like, I want to race out to go see this. And so it just got by me. But it's so interesting how big the movie is, Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna say it, but it was such a phenomenon, I just.

[Sean Fennese]

I kind of missed it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Like, I was stunned to learn that this movie has made $610 million worldwide at the box office.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's way bigger internationally than it is in the US and, like, it's big. It made $144 million domestically. Like, good job.

[Sean Fennese]

That's very big.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's very big. But for a while, it was, like, the most seen movie in the uk. I mean, I'm, like, exaggerating, but it's. It's stats and performance in. In the UK alone were a sort of singular, like, weather blip that you just can't really explain.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, you've got. In the movie, you've got an Irish, English, and Swedish, like, kind of icon. I mean, all three of those actors in their. In their native countries are massive stars. Pierce Brosnan's obviously was double oh seven. So I think that Attributes to it a little bit. Right. It's a film that's also set in Greece. Like, it's a very European movie in many ways, but 610 million. I mean, put some context on it. Like, if you don't count animated Disney movies or live action adaptations of animated Disney movies, this is the third highest grossing movie musical in the history of movies behind Wicked and Wonka, which only just came out in the last two years. Yeah, that's a crazy statistic. I know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's why I've been like, I can't understand how you haven't seen this movie.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know. It just never got it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. Who's. Can you name a single friend of mine who you think would be besides Juliet, who would be like, a massive fan of Mamma Mia?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not about being a massive fan. Am I a massive fan of Mamma Mia. Do I like I know about it because it is such a strange. It was so successful and such an anomaly and also stars Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan and Colin Firth and Stellan Skarsgrd singing ABBA on a boat.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, when you Google 2008 movies, what are the first movies that come up? This never works. Google sucks now. God, it's unbelievable.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Movies. Wikipedia. Come on.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, even if you just look at the most successful films from that year, that's the thing is it was the Dark Knight and Iron man year, and it was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I saw both of those movies and I also had time for Mamiya.

[Sean Fennese]

Once again, women can have it all. Every day. Yeah, they truly can.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wall E. Crystal Skull. Twilight.

[Sean Fennese]

I saw Twilight in theaters.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So did I.

[Sean Fennese]

You know what? It would have gotten me to go see Mamma Mia. In theaters. Putting vampires in it. Okay, if you put vampires in your movie, I will check it out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Don't rule it out for Mamma Mia 3.

[Sean Fennese]

That's gonna happen, right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

They keep talking about it. I do. I. I meant to revisit the plot of Mamma Mia 2, which I saw in theaters at the Arclight so. With my mother and my husband. But I think that they might have some casting issues without spoiling Mamma Mia. Too. Some decisions are made, okay. But vampires is a way to solve it.

[Sean Fennese]

Let's go back to the cortex of Mamma Mia. And now it's time for Moments that Matter, a new segment brought to you by State Farm. Life moves fast. It's full of unexpected twists, big wins, and little surprises that stick with us. But that's totally fine because you can rely on State Farm to be there. Speaking of moments that stick, let's dive into the ones that made Mama Me unforgettable for you, Amanda. What? What? What jumps out to you?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Meryl Streep singing the Winner Takes it all at Pierce Brosnan at one of the most beautiful cliffs overlooking a Greek church on hillside that I've ever seen. I think about this scene once a week. I'm most elated that you have now also seen this scene where Pierce Brosnan just stands there looking confused.

[Sean Fennese]

That's me on every pod, for the record.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know. Well. And while Meryl Streep does a pretty incredible job.

[Sean Fennese]

Really good. This is her best performance in the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She's really good. And it's clear that she's, like, thought about that. That this is the only song. And it's one of ABBA's great songs that, like, actually communicates any character development.

[Sean Fennese]

And it's very much in her range, too, as a singer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. They don't go, like, full disco on it, which is. Okay, that's. It wouldn't be appropriate to the moment, but I do think we're missing something from the Winner Takes It All. But that's okay. Listen, this is interpretation. And the fact that the winner. Meryl Streep singing the Winner Takes it all at Pierce Brosnan on a Greek beach is, like, plot development of a kind.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is an incredible achievement. And it's just. It's something you don't see anywhere else. You know, they have never done it since.

[Sean Fennese]

No. Although, doesn't the song make an incredible appearance in Bergman Island? Yes. And it all makes sense now. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I told you at the time, the second greatest user of the Winner Takes it all ever. An amazing song.

[Sean Fennese]

Great pick. When it comes to moments that matter in real life, there is no script. But State Farm has your back. With State Farm, you can focus on what matters most, knowing you're prepared for whatever comes next. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What other musical performances do you think are great in this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Christine Baranski gets her Christine Baranski moment.

[Sean Fennese]

It seems so goofy, but she's so winning.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But, yeah. And it's. But again, at some point, they just start engineering things for characters to get their particular moment. And there's something about, you know, she's so much taller than everyone. Everyone else dancing. And the, like, you know, committed, like, slightly campy version of. Of her performance that, like, really tickles me. And you do spend the whole movie, especially now, you know, post Good Wife post, like, Baranski Renaissance Number four or whatever you're wondering, like, why did Christine Bransky say yes to this? This is beneath the regal Christine Baranski. And then she finally, like, gets her big moment. I mean, it is silly, but they're all silly.

[Sean Fennese]

I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, the first time you get the wide shot of Dancing Queen and everyone on the pier, I was like, well, this is. This is an important song.

[Sean Fennese]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Who else? I mean, Amanda Seyfried is good, but that's kind of. That's not really the point of this. What stayed with you?

[Sean Fennese]

I'm trying to think of what is the best Sophie song in the movie. I have a Dream maybe.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it opens and closes it.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, that might be the best. I mean, she has more vocal range than most of the people in the movie, too. So what is the song? Is it SOS when she's sing who she. When she's singing on the beach to Dominic Cooper? What is that song?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not SOS because I think Pierce Brosnan sings sos.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes, you're right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're right.

[Sean Fennese]

Which is terrible.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which, I mean, it's tough news. What does she sing?

[Sean Fennese]

Is it Gimme, Gimme, Gimme A Man After Midnight. Is that it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Maybe.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. Yeah, it might be that one. She has a few good moments. It's fascinating that they basically don't let Stellan Skarsgard sing, but they do let Pierce Brosnan sing three times.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, maybe it's not a let. Maybe it's a could convince to. Maybe Stellan Skarsgrd had a better understanding of what was happening and what he could do.

[Sean Fennese]

I really liked him in this movie, and I really liked that they let him be kind of like a charmer, kind of using his rapscallion Persona, but certainly not being like a mean bastard, which is how he's kind of typecast in the last 20 years. Pierce Brosnan, though, an Irishman who can't sing. That's a bit of a concern.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He sings like two lines an hour last summer.

[Sean Fennese]

Skarsgard. Yeah, yeah. And first, what does he say?

[Amanda Dobbins]

He also sings an hour last summer. And then he sings. Let's see, there's one more that he does.

[Sean Fennese]

Mamma Mia. Heads are pulling their hair out because of our lack of knowledge of abba and the songs perform.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I have it right now. Listen.

[Sean Fennese]

I was doing my best. I was holding on for dear life watching this movie, like another song.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I Think that you were talking about the. The Sophie song is Lay all your love on me.

[Sean Fennese]

That's it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which is a classic one. Let's see. There's also. Harry apparently sings on Take a chance on me. I'm just looking at the. The. The song list here and. Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Why is there not any good choreography in the movie? The. The men in. In the. In flippers dancing on a pier.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, it's also.

[Sean Fennese]

Come on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

One idea that is. And I did. I did sort of wonder they could get at some point whether it's just kind of like resources and who they could get because they did film the outdoor scenes on location in Greece, and it seems like they had a pretty good budget, but maybe they couldn't get professional dancers on. Onto the island at the numbers required in order to really. I mean, what kind of choreography are you looking for?

[Sean Fennese]

Good. I mean, the good kind.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did you think about the fact that also, we mean, like, no one can really dance.

[Sean Fennese]

That's okay. I think you can have a kind of supporting crew of dancers behind. And they did have kind of multiple extras and additional performers in the film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'll be honest. When you have. This is another thing where modern musical choreography and dancing is a little too performative.

[Sean Fennese]

And what do you mean by that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, too many people milking it and really just hitting every move really hard.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, I'm like, doing Fosse Fosse.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And like, only Beyonce is Beyonce, you know, and only Beyonce's dancers are Beyonce's dancers. And everyone else, like, Wicked. There were a lot of people posing in the background, and it just took me out every single time. I was like, no, this is not your movie.

[Sean Fennese]

Just let them have their moment.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, but no, it's not. It's not their kids. Like, there. There is Step up. And I think Step up is really good. And when you're in the movie about the dancing, but when you're in a movie about two witches trying to, you know, navigate friendship and. And fascism, then, like, keep the hands in, you know.

[Sean Fennese]

Lovely.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Really like what you did there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you so much. So I. I politely disagree with that. There is also. There is one moment I noticed, I think, during Dancing Queen where Baranski and Meryl Streep are wearing chiffon skirts, not unlike the west side Story skirts. And they do, like, one Jerome Robbins, like, sachet moment.

[Sean Fennese]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that's good. But I don't know if they could have kept up that choreography for the whole number. So I. We're meeting people where they Are.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah. Let's talk about Meryl quickly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Loves to sing. She loves it.

[Sean Fennese]

This is such an important movie in her career.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Because you know, it come. Isn't it. It's almost immediately after Devil.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Worst pride is 2006. And.

[Sean Fennese]

And she's really like. Is she in her 50s when she's made this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, mid to late 50s. I googled it and it's just an.

[Sean Fennese]

Absolute box office draw.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, the greatest actress of her Generation in her 50s is commanding multiple hundred million dollar movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Again, completely anomalous. This is not. There's no other precedent for this really. I would say in the history of Hollywood. Most actresses as we have talked about. We just talked about this in conversation with Rachel McAdams are like discarded by the industry. Obviously she's a cut above. But the fact that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And also in a female led movie about the fashion industry. It's not a romantic comedy, but it's not a bunch of men fighting each other. And then in a movie musical about Abba, you know, it's not. She didn't like Charlize Theronid and be like, now I'm gonna like, you know, get a gun and start fighting people.

[Sean Fennese]

That's right. That's right. She's held guns in movies before though.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Meryl.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm trying to think, I'm trying to find her filmography, but once again, Google, I just, you know, need a reference. Let's see. Meryl Streep with the kangaroo. Did she hold a gun in that one? I don't know what's going on?

[Sean Fennese]

Cry in the Dark.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

A dingo. You're thinking of a dingo.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I'm sorry. To Australia. We haven't been yet.

[Sean Fennese]

You're gonna have to revisit or watch that film for the Meryl Streep.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fine with me. And now I'm okay. Finally got it. So let's see.

[Sean Fennese]

Hit us with this era. This, this ten years.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Postcards from the Edge. She sings way more than she holds a.

[Sean Fennese]

Holds she does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Loves to sing. Postcards from the Edge. No gun that I recall. Some, you know, does some drugs, dogs. Death becomes comes her. No guns.

[Sean Fennese]

Some Lala violence though.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Bridges of Madison. Yeah, but like funny violence. Bridges of Madison County. I don't remember what.

[Sean Fennese]

Does she have a gun?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't. I mean they're in Montana.

[Sean Fennese]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. I don't know what goes on there. I'm not an expert on this.

[Sean Fennese]

No, she wields a camera.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Adaptation. No gun. The hours Flowers. I'm scrolling. Lemony Snicket. Don't really know what's happening. There is a Lemony Snicket. A thing for your generation, Jack.

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know what that is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, well, congratulations.

[Sean Fennese]

A Series of Unfortunate Events. Series of children's books that were adapted into movies and then a television series. Yes. Familiar with that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Lions for Lambs.

[Sean Fennese]

She plays a very powerful journalist who is modeled on. Who is the awful New York Times journalist who wrote the pieces in support of the Iraq war.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Judy Miller.

[Sean Fennese]

Judy Miller. She plays like, kind of a Judy. Yeah, Judith Miller.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know whether she's Judy or Judith.

[Sean Fennese]

She's Judith.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so I don't. I don't think that Judith Miller had a gun, though.

[Sean Fennese]

No, she does have a series of others. She has a series of showdowns with Tom Cruise.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. So also in 2008 is doubt, and then 2009 is Julia and Julia. And it's complicated just to continue the box office.

[Sean Fennese]

That's an amazing stress.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No guns in any of those. But some of. Some of my.

[Sean Fennese]

Forget about the gun question. That's not important. If you just replace Angelina Jolie with Meryl Streep in the film Wanted, is it better?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which one is wanted?

[Sean Fennese]

One with James McAvoy, where she comes in, she's like a secret society assassin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Jolie Wanted. Oh, I remember this one. Yes. Sure.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay, let's do this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Meryl Streep. Salt.

[Sean Fennese]

Meryl Salt.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know what? Meryl does have, like, a regal Russian quality to it. Like, you could see her in the. In the head.

[Sean Fennese]

Think of the accent work.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Of course. And also, if you needed to do any flashbacks, then you have one of the many Gummer daughters who are also actresses who could credibly play her.

[Sean Fennese]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. There you go. And then Wanted to. Is solved. If you need to do a prequel, set it right up.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wanted to. I mean, Salt to. Excuse me.

[Sean Fennese]

Right, right. Meryl Streep is hard to talk about. It's kind of like talking about Coca Cola on a warm summer day. It's like just good. Just always good. Never. Well, the movies are not always good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In this discuss.

[Sean Fennese]

I. I think it's an interesting conversation. I think she's doing her absolute best singing and half of the performance. Song performances are good and half are bad.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would say that she's. I guess she is doing at her best thing. She's not a great singer. She keeps doing this, obviously. Then she does Florence Foster Jenkins. She does into the Woods. Yes, she does.

[Sean Fennese]

Florence Foster Jenkins is so funny, though, because it's kind of a riff on how she can't really sing that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennese]

You know, like that's kind of the gag of the movie that. Here's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Here's Mary Poppins returns.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, that didn't go well. This works because she's having fun and you can feel it while watching her. It doesn't really matter if she's hitting the note in the ABBA song. No one's listening to ABBA for Ricky and the Flash.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's what I was trying to think.

[Sean Fennese]

Of my guy, Jonathan Demme. That's a beautiful movie. Then she's playing there like a Chrissy Hind style rock front woman. She loves music, she loves to sing. Is she good? Yeah, she's good. I think so. I mean, yeah, the whole movie is operating. It's kind of orbiting the idea of camp. It's not campy because there's nothing inherently campy about abba, but there is a kind of drag quality to so much of what's happening with the older characters in the film. Like, even with Julie Walters and Christine Baranski, they're kind of operating in this. It's like Rocky Horror Picture show for people who like to go to, like, Cabo to all like, to, you know. Yeah, full service resorts, you know, like, is there something like, really, oh, you're.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Above your nose resort.

[Sean Fennese]

I've been. I like them. I like Cabo.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If anyone is listening, I'm available.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, you will make yourself a hotel influencer yet. I know you're doing your damnedest. I just don't know. That's why I bring up this idea of, like, good versus bad. And the binary of it is just an impossibility with a movie like this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I don't think that this is a movie where it's so bad that it's good, you know, which is often a category that many, many people enjoy.

[Sean Fennese]

And not an idea. I believe in you and I don't like it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, you and I don't respond to it. This movie is I doing with the possible exception of, you know, some of the, the, the camera work and the.

[Sean Fennese]

And everything that happens walking is so bad. Like in every scene. I'm like, why is the camera here?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I, I, you know, and you built a whole villa in order to be able to put the camera wherever you want. And you're in Pinewood and you seemingly have a lot of budget, so I, I don't get it. But with the exception of that, like, the movie is doing what it wants to be doing. And I think the performances are what they want to be. They're not. It's not that it's bad or it is bad, but it's not unintentional.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, I feel like they do know what they're doing. Right. There's not like a confusion about what kind of a movie it is. I love in the closing credits, when they do a song over the credits and then do another song over the credit. There's a kind of like, you don't even want this to end. You just want to keep glugging while this movie goes on and on and on and plays another song.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And honestly, arguably the highest point of the movie is. Is the credit sequence when they've stripped away all pretense of trying to tell a story. And it's. It's Meryl and Christine Ransky and Julie Walters first in, like, full 70s ABBA disco gear. And then the men come into even more amped up in their bell bottoms for Waterloo, which is so funny. And they're all, you know, like, to introduce Waterloo, it's like Meryl kind of like a half drunk at the camera being like, you want one more? Having a great time. It is. They're just doing karaoke with, like, great lighting and, like, on a music video set. And you're like, yeah, I would probably. If they did three more songs, I would watch them. I just saw a note that you left in the. In the outline, which is. It's very interesting that Fernando is not included in this movie. And they just. At some point, we're gonna have to watch Mamma Mia. Too. Oh, have I never told you how Fernando.

[Sean Fennese]

No. I know. Everybody on letterbox was like, this movie actually stinks, but two is like, crack. Like, it's so good. So now I feel like I have to watch 2 2.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And the way that Fernando is used in 2 is. Is breathtaking.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay, great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is on. And I won't say anymore.

[Sean Fennese]

Easily the number one song when I was like, what are they gonna do, Fernando?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, well, I like, I. I think I maybe did start applauding at the arc light, like, alone when Fernando showed up. Was it. It's really. And I've definitely, by the way, told you what happens before on a podcast and you don't retain any of this information.

[Sean Fennese]

No knowledge of it. Yeah, I'm emotionally detecting, but not informationally detecting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Anyway, I would like to do karaoke with all of these people. It seems really fun.

[Sean Fennese]

That's just a perfect way to kind of snapshot what the movie is. Is it's just like really fun karaoke with actors that you enjoy. It's just not a bad idea for a movie. And maybe there should be other movies like this. You know, we get a lot of self. Serious rock star biopics.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

But the reason that Queen was so successful is because people were like, I want to fucking hear Queen songs in the movie theater. I want to know what it was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like to be Rhapsody.

[Sean Fennese]

What did I say?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You said Queen.

[Sean Fennese]

Sorry. Bohemian Rhapsody was so successful because of the songs and because of this portrayal of this band who we have a big relationship to. Abba. Very similar. I know. I guess this is. Michael is going to be like this. Michael is going to be. It's not going to have any of the sense of humor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But it's. It's. It's a biopic. It's not. That's what nice about this is that it has nothing to do with the. I still don't know all the names of the Abu people.

[Sean Fennese]

No, neither do I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I don't. I don't know what they're up to. What they're up to. I don't know if they're living or dead.

[Sean Fennese]

Should we call them?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are there. I don't know. Will they answer?

[Sean Fennese]

I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're in Sweden.

[Sean Fennese]

It's like they have a lot of money.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I bet I. I bet they do. Good for them.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I don't. I just know the music and the song. The movie just uses the music and like a funny and not hagiographic way. You know, it has fun with the music too. It's like, these are silly.

[Sean Fennese]

If you could do your own Mamma Mia. What country and what artist?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay. Well, the location is such a huge part of this, but I guess there's no reason it's. Right. That's true. Other than that's where they want to be. What country?

[Sean Fennese]

I can say that in terms of that part of the movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

It's top shelf. Like ABBA in Greece. I don't think you could have done better in terms of who the target audience for the movie was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I'm just thinking of like other Mediterranean islands at this point. You know, it's like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Music wise. What would I do? I gotta tell you, I really. I've been hitting like Rihanna radio on Spotify recently and having the time of my life.

[Sean Fennese]

Rihanna is an artist who would be very good for this. Yeah. Because every song is a party. That's Kind of the vibe that you need. So Rihanna, like in Sicily, like, where do you want to go?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I mean, I guess if we're doing Rihanna, then you do Barbados, right?

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

Wow. Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

We should just develop this. Okay, That's a golden idea. I'm gonna. I'm gonna put that in the back of my mind. Okay. You have a very important question.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennese]

At the end of this conversation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Now it's time to play. And this, you know, goes into this movie ends. It's honestly, this movie has more balls than the strangers because in the sense that there is no resolution. We don't know. The movie does not confirm who the father is. This movie understands that the greatest fear and the greatest power lies in not knowing. Yes, it also under. I understand that people just want to play who's the father. Like, you know, like Maury Povich understood before me. So now it's time to do you know who the father is? Is there.

[Sean Fennese]

Is there a definitive truth?

[Amanda Dobbins]

So Felidia Lloyd and who and Katherine Johnson have. Have shared their opinions of who it is?

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, it's one of the only.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Learned this yesterday. Yeah, but. But I would like to know what you. What you think. I only learned this yesterday, and I don't know whether I agree.

[Sean Fennese]

I feel that Occam's razor is Pierce Brosnan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, of course. I've always assumed.

[Sean Fennese]

So I just. As a logical person, I will go. He gets the most backstory. He gets the most clarification of connectivity to Meryl Streep's character. You just kind of buy that it's him, even if you don't know. And he also is just so over the moon for her that it makes you more comfortable with that idea. And also he's very invested in the idea of giving away his daughter, and he's very interested in that. And so you're kind of rooting for that. I don't know. Were you rooting for it when you were watching the movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, you're supposed to be rooting for it because ultimately they were the. They were in love and it was like their missed connection or whatever. And. And they wind up getting married.

[Sean Fennese]

What's the story when he's explaining how his wife married him to confirm that he was a fool even though he went back for the woman that he loved? I had some notes about that little line of dialogue. What was this woman was going to ruin her life to prove that her husband to be. Was an idiot?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I think that just has like, a little bit of like, Divorced aftertaste. You know that it's like he doesn't think very highly of the decision making process that either of them went through. And also I think they probably said rude things to each other for 20 years.

[Sean Fennese]

I had an amazing conversation with Eileen after this movie where I was like, where are you at on Pierce? She's not a big Bond person. He's still very active making a lot of movies. He was just in Thursday, Murder Club. Sure. I was like, what do you think about him? Him? And she was like, well, he's obviously incredibly handsome, but he's not my style of handsome. And she said, I also just don't think he would be interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh.

[Sean Fennese]

Which I thought was a unique way of taking out Pierce Brosnan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. But does she know that he lived like outside hanalei for like 25 years in. On the North Shore of Kauai and you could just see him at the. Yeah, he was like there forever and you would see him at the. Yeah, I do think he sold the place like fairly recently.

[Sean Fennese]

Where is it? Where is he now?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. He also has like a hundred million dollar property in Malibu or something. I didn't, I haven't checked on that.

[Sean Fennese]

Do you think it's weird that you know this?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, the Hana Lay thing, it's like he's very open about it. So if you ever go. Hanalei Bay is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been on vacation in my entire life. And if you're googling like would recommend.

[Sean Fennese]

It to anyone what to do in.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Hanalei, they're like, maybe you'll see Pierce Brosnan at the coffee shop. So he's. He became sort of like an ambassador. He's been photographed there. Etc. The. And then I think when I was googling Pierce Brosnan, Hanalei, the other absolutely insane like hundred million dollar like spread in Malibu came up and there's like a lot of architectural. You know, he's done a lot of Architectural Digest, which is how I know this.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shout out to Kristen Stewart debuting her purchase of the Highland. Highland Park Theater.

[Sean Fennese]

Unbelievable.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Architectural Digest. Amazing stuff. I'm so excited. I drive by it all five minutes from my house. Yeah, I know. That's our preferred home state across the street.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, it's like so crushing when that place closed. Even though it was not a very good movie theater.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I definitely, I saw Super Mario Brothers movie there with a bunch of children and many mice. So it needed some work.

[Sean Fennese]

It needs work. But it's so cool that she's coming in and buying that movie theater, which for us is extremely local. Yeah. Okay. You know a lot about this. Who's the father? I'll just say I think it's Pierce Brosnan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I also thought it was Pierce Brosnan. What I learned is that the director and screenwriter think that it's. It's Stellan Skarsgrd. And the reason they think that is.

[Sean Fennese]

Then that's super Swedish sperm.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, and also because then he has, like, a Swedish. You know, he's Swedish. So Sophie has a connection to the music of abba. That was their reasoning. I thought that was really stupid. But then I was thinking about it.

[Sean Fennese]

But that assumes that the world of the movie knows that the ABBA songs are being sung. Like, that's just such a weird thing to say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't say that. But then if you think about. If you think about the order, I believe. Believe that according to the diary, the chain of events was Pierce Brosnan, Bill, Harry. So print Pierce Brosnan selling Skarsgard, Colin Firth, and then she realized she was pregnant. So you have to assume. So if that's. If those are all before she realized she's pregnant. So that's all in one cycle. Right. And so the middle person is going to be the closest to ovulation. So it probably does scientifically make sense. This has been Amanda's science quarter.

[Sean Fennese]

I mean, incredible work by you. Thank you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I've had a lot of schooling on that particular side.

[Sean Fennese]

I do just want to say that at the end of the day, one, I do care what you think, but I do not care what the director and screenwriter think, because they didn't write this musical. This is adapted from a musical. The person who wrote the musical should tell us who the father is, if such information is available. But is that not revealed in mamma mia2?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm googling as fast as I can. Okay, well, Katherine Johnson also wrote the musical.

[Sean Fennese]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So let's see. Yeah, so she can decide. And I think it's different. I don't think that the Bill character is Swedish in the play. Oh, let's see. Hold. Oh, my God. This is just, like, a long list of people who have played the.

[Sean Fennese]

Okay, this is a tremendous amount of Googling from you in this episode.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He explains that he always loved her and years ago, had ended his own engagement, only to find Donna had gone off with another man. Bill. So yet another. Just kind of scientifically speaking. But it doesn't seem that they reveal it. No, but the Waterloo is a part of the encore. The Waterloo performance And the stage musical.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, thanks for sharing this movie with me. I'm glad that I watched it. I liked it. I had fun. Yeah. I do understand why it's a phenomenal movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And now you know more about the world.

[Sean Fennese]

I do. I would never, like, be like, how dare you like a movie this stupid? It's like, that makes no sense. This is a movie that obviously gives people joy. I'm kind of intrigued by two, though. I have no. It's. This is not like a Infinity War endgame situation for me where I'm like, I need to know what happens next. If I never see it, I'll die happy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So it's. Can I tell you, it's both a prequel and a sequel.

[Sean Fennese]

I kind of hate that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. It's. It's really.

[Sean Fennese]

Someone's playing young Meryl. Huh? Who's playing young Meryl?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Lily James. And they're in London, and they're doing Donna and the Dynamos, their little music group. So she does a lot of performances. And then I don't remember what happened.

[Sean Fennese]

I might have to watch this this weekend.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I mean, they had to make it. Mamma Mia. Here We Go Again was sitting there waiting for them.

[Sean Fennese]

I was also thinking about how you could put Here We Go Again as, like, the subtitle of many films and just make them much funnier. Just like, Fast X Colon, Here We Go Again. That would just. Just.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Should we call this movie Swap? Here We Go Again. Yeah. We need the film title. That's not good, SEO. I know it's not good, SEO, but it's good to see.

[Sean Fennese]

It's dead, though, as we just learned from all this Googling that you did. It doesn't work anymore.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know.

[Sean Fennese]

It's fucking cratering the industry. Any final thoughts about this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It does feel like you're a little more up to date with at least what was going on in 2008, if not the world at large. So that's good. I feel good. I feel like we've completed a part of your education.

[Sean Fennese]

Well, thanks for bringing me on the journey. That concludes this episode. So next week. Interesting episode. I mentioned that we'll kind of watch the super bowl at least for the trailers. We always talk about the trailers after that because they kind of roll out event movies for the rest of the year. We're going to the DGAs.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We are.

[Sean Fennese]

So you and I have never been to an award show together, and I thought that this would be an exciting anthropological experience for us. How are you feeling about that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm excited.

[Sean Fennese]

Me too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, parents night out.

[Sean Fennese]

That's right. And crazy Saturday.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We got to talk about parking, but.

[Sean Fennese]

I was thinking of Ubering.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, well, then you can come pick me up on the way. We can cardboard.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, you can pick me up, but sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, that's fine. And then I feel good. I have my outfits ready.

[Sean Fennese]

Mine is as well. Okay. It's been dry cleaned.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, good.

[Sean Fennese]

Yeah, I'm feeling good. I think the idea here will be. Sure, we'll talk about the results of the show, but sort of like, what does a show like this feel like? Because we don't usually operate the way that so many Oscar pundits do, where they're attending events and meeting and greeting and what's the vibe in the room. I'm personally not very interested in that, but I am interested in directors. And I also like that this show is not televised. And so I'm curious if we get a different kind of energy. So. Yeah, that'll be next week. You excited? Yeah. Okay. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his production work on this episode, and we'll see you soon.