Our 800th Episode Ask-Us-Anything Mailbag. Plus: ‘Elio’ and ‘How to Train Your Dragon.’

Summary

The Big Picture: Episode 800 Summary

Release Date: June 23, 2025
Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbin

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Introduction and Celebrations

Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbin kick off the landmark 800th episode of The Big Picture with enthusiasm, reflecting on the show's journey from its humble beginnings to becoming a staple for movie enthusiasts. Celebrating this milestone, they introduce the episode's format—a comprehensive Ask-Us-Anything (AMA) mailbag segment combined with discussions on Pixar's latest film, Elio, and Universal's live-action remake of How to Train Your Dragon.

Notable Quote:
Sean (02:09): "And now today you find me 79 years old, on the verge of physical and mental total collapse and drowning in plastic. And my collection is stronger than ever."

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Housekeeping: Reviving the Letterboxd Account

The hosts announce the revival of The Big Picture's Letterboxd account, @TheBigPick, where they will compile movie lists from both past and current episodes. This initiative aims to provide listeners with a curated repository of their extensive movie discussions.

Notable Quote:
Sean (03:20): "People are always saying, why can't I have these lists printed out somewhere? We don't put them in the show notes because we want you to listen to the episode."

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Audience Questions: AMA Mailbag

1. Signs of a Great Movie Year

Question from John (05:48):
John reflects on his initial optimism about the year's movie slate but worries it might fall short. He seeks advice on identifying indicators of a successful film year.

Discussion:
Sean and Amanda discuss the unpredictability of the movie industry, citing examples like Superman and Fantastic Four and their diverse performances at the box office. They emphasize the importance of festival seasons and the continual emergence of notable directors and projects that can redefine the year's success.

Notable Quote:
Zach (06:07): "Things are picking up. I do think we're going to be like maybe in for a little bit of a bumpy July, right?"

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2. Iconic Movie Theaters in Los Angeles

Question from Reagan (15:23):
Reagan, an aspiring law student interning in LA, seeks recommendations for iconic movie theaters to visit during the summer.

Discussion:
Sean and Zach provide an extensive tour of Los Angeles' iconic theaters, including The Arrow in Santa Monica, New Beverly owned by Quentin Tarantino, Los Fields 3 Cinematheque, Vidiots in Eagle Rock, and others like Academy Museum and Egyptian Theatre. They share personal anecdotes and highlight the unique offerings of each venue, from 70mm screenings to exclusive programming.

Notable Quote:
Sean (16:10): "We have a relationship with American Cinema Tech and love what they do."

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3. Most Watched Movies Ever

Question from Kevin (40:28):
Kevin challenges the hosts to name the top 5-10 movies they've genuinely watched the most in their lives.

Discussion:
Both hosts candidly share their most-watched films, ranging from classics like Citizen Kane and The Godfather to cult favorites such as Clerks and The Big Lebowski. They humorously debate the merits of over-watched movies and acknowledge the nostalgic value these films hold.

Notable Quote:
Sean (43:18): "Clerks, Big Lebowski, Die Hard, Pulp Fiction, and The Godfather. That's the bro canon, right?"

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4. System for Giving Star Ratings on Letterboxd

Question from Tucker (60:42):
Tucker inquires about Sean's method for rating movies on Letterboxd, noting it appears random.

Discussion:
Sean explains his meticulous approach to rating, emphasizing objectivity and the desire to maintain consistency in his evaluations. He highlights the importance of categorizing films based on their impact, personal enjoyment, and cultural significance.

Notable Quote:
Sean (61:04): "One of the things I like about Letterboxd is it gives you this rule of 10 quality, where 5 stars with halves is a 1 through 10."

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5. Distractions in Movie Theaters: Phones and Conversations

Question from Grayson (49:09):
Grayson shares negative experiences of disrupted movie-watching due to phone usage and people talking, seeking the hosts' perspectives.

Discussion:
Sean and Zach delve into the pervasive issue of distractions in theaters, attributing it to the increasing dependency on smartphones. They discuss personal strategies to mitigate these disruptions, such as using phone settings to minimize visibility and sound, choosing optimal seating, and advocating for social etiquette among moviegoers.

Notable Quotes:
Sean (51:45): "I feel that I'm a very respectful movie watcher. I don't disturb other people."

Zach (53:58): "The larger issue is that like, the social contract is broken... we forgot how to be around people or be respectful of people."

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Deep Dive: Elio and How to Train Your Dragon

Pixar's Elio

Description:
Elio is Pixar's latest animated feature, co-directed by Dome Shih, Madeline Sharafian, and Adrian Molina. Featuring voice talents like Jonas Kibryeb and Zoe Saldana, the film explores the adventures of a space alien abduction narrative.

Discussion:
Sean and Zach share their mixed reactions to Elio. While acknowledging the emotional depth and unique storytelling, they critique its pacing and predictability. Sean highlights the film's ability to foster empathy, especially in young viewers, while Zach questions its broader appeal beyond fans of the genre.

Notable Quote:
Sean (75:28): "But they can teach you to feel something... the movies can teach you to understand the world and your feelings in that way."

Universal's How to Train Your Dragon Remake

Description:
Universal's live-action remake of How to Train Your Dragon seeks to reimagine the beloved animated saga with new casting and expanded lore.

Discussion:
The hosts commend the film's visual effects and Gerard Butler's performance but criticize its adherence to the original script without substantial innovation. They express concern over the film's length and question its necessity in the current cinematic landscape dominated by sequels and remakes.

Notable Quote:
Sean (92:37): "It's pretty good. I also recently watched the original 2010 animated version with my daughter."

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Final Audience Questions

6. Recommendations for Popcorn Blockbusters

Question from Mike (66:12):
Mike, a sporadic moviegoer, seeks recommendations for blockbuster films in 2025 that deliver the quintessential theater experience.

Discussion:
Sean and Zach suggest Avatar 3 and F1 as prime candidates, highlighting their visual spectacles and ability to captivate large audiences. They emphasize that these films offer immersive experiences best enjoyed on the big screen.

Notable Quote:
Sean (66:32): "F1 has that... We know where this is going the whole time."

7. Filmmakers for Original Children’s Movies

Question from Georgia (73:36):
Georgia asks for recommendations of filmmakers who could excel at creating original children's movies, moving beyond remakes and sequels.

Discussion:
The hosts lament the scarcity of original children’s films in recent years, proposing that visionary directors could bridge this gap. They discuss the importance of diverse storytelling and liken potential candidates to established talents like Sofia Coppola and Greta Gerwig. However, they acknowledge the challenges in balancing creative integrity with mass appeal.

Notable Quote:
Sean (74:06): "I am always more interested in those kinds of people... who can bridge art and commerce."

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Closing Remarks

As the episode concludes, Sean and Amanda express gratitude to their listeners for their engaging questions and continuous support. They tease upcoming episodes and initiatives, reaffirming their commitment to providing insightful and entertaining movie discussions.

Notable Quote:
Sean (100:17): "We did it. You feel good? You feel good about what we accomplished?"

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Audience Engagement: The AMA format allowed for intimate and varied discussions, addressing both personal movie experiences and broader industry trends.

• Theater Culture: A significant concern revolves around modern distractions in movie theaters, with hosts advocating for increased etiquette and personal responsibility.

• Originality vs. Commercial Success: There's a palpable tension between the desire for original storytelling and the industry's reliance on proven franchises and remakes.

• Parental Perspectives: The hosts navigate the complexities of introducing meaningful and emotionally rich films to younger audiences, balancing entertainment with educational value.

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Conclusion

Episode 800 of The Big Picture serves as a reflective and forward-looking installment, blending audience interaction with in-depth film analysis. Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbin continue to deliver thoughtful conversations, celebrating their legacy while addressing the evolving landscape of cinema.

Transcript

[Sean Fennessy]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen. Listen to your podcast. Let's go. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. There's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's my Apple card.

[Zach Lowe]

I can earn up to 3% daily.

[Sean Fennessy]

Cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel a abroad.

[Zach Lowe]

To get an Apple card for your.

[Sean Fennessy]

Summer travels, apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 2025. Terms and [e-mail] I'm Sean Fennessy.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm Amanda Dobbin and this is the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Big Picture 8 conversation show about 800 and beyond. Maybe today on the show we'll talk about two kids films dominating at the movies this month. A live action how to Train youn Dragon remake and Pixar's latest. Eliot will also open the mailbag to answer your questions to celebrate what is our eighth, no, 800th episode. So I was 34 years old, childless, living a quiet life as a generally panicked digital media editor. That was all when the show started.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

And now today you find me 79 years old, on the verge of physical and mental total collapse and drowning in plastic. And my, my collection is stronger than ever. How are you feeling across all these years and days of this show?

[Zach Lowe]

Great. Thrilled to be here. I don't, I haven't thought about too much. You know, it's another Monday. Got the kids to school.

[Sean Fennessy]

Nice.

[Zach Lowe]

We got good questions.

[Sean Fennessy]

We did.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm, as always, very grateful to be doing this. Very grateful to our listeners, very excited for our live events, our film festivals, everything we're doing this year. And you know, and it's Just another day talking about the movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, thanks for hanging in there, Mama. Housekeeping Letterboxd is back. And I don't just mean my usage of it. I mean the big Pictures usage of it. Thanks to some new forces behind the scenes, we have reactivated our show's account. It is at the Big Pick. On letterboxd, we are publishing lists from old episodes. We'll be doing ones for new episodes if you want to keep up with the show. We make a lot of lists on this show. We talk about a lot of movies. We name drop tons of movies through every episode.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We.

[Sean Fennessy]

People are always saying, why can't I have these lists printed out somewhere? We don't put them in the show notes because we want you to listen to the episode. And if you're saying out there. But I listen anyway. I appreciate that.

[Zach Lowe]

However, once again, this is how we feed our children.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. There will be this ongoing resource, though, that you can go to on our letterboxd account. How is your letterboxd account looking these days?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't think that I've updated it in four to five years.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Um, you know, I checked in recently to see what my top four were, and I thought they were pretty good.

[Sean Fennessy]

What were they?

[Zach Lowe]

They were a few Good men. His girl Friday, Marie Antoinette, and I want to say Four Weddings and a Funeral.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Congrats.

[Zach Lowe]

Um, yeah, that's representative.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not Working girl.

[Zach Lowe]

No. But my icon is Melanie Griffith in Working Girl.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe that's what I'm thinking. Yes. That's great. We miss you. Come back. The water is warm.

[Zach Lowe]

I am really busy posting on Instagram. I'm thriving there.

[Sean Fennessy]

I see.

[Zach Lowe]

And I'm, you know, movie fans are welcome to join me or at the Big Picture there.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, sure. But that's kind of. That's really where I'm thriving right now. Thank you so much.

[Sean Fennessy]

Understood. So, Jack Sanders, we opened the mailbag up and, you know, we didn't. We just announced it on the episode. So this. The. The questions that we would have gotten. There was no. I don't believe there was a social media post about this.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So that means you had to be a real head who listened to the 28 years episode.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And wrote into us and had a big thought. There was no x dot com. I know you really wanted us to get it up there on X. I said, no, not this time, Amanda. We don't need to use that platform for our content.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It was only posted on Truth Social.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was Truth Social. That's great. Well, it was very busy There this weekend, as we know. Let's get to more important matters for this show, which is the questions that we received. Jack Goodmix, was everybody edgy? Were they cool? What was it like?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I was very delighted. This was a strong batch of emails.

[Zach Lowe]

I like the, the questions that you picked out. They were good. And also, you know, I did think that people listened to us, you know, and what we were looking for and what we were maybe not looking for.

[Sean Fennessy]

What we called for. Well, maybe Jack was listening.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Or Jack as well.

[Amanda Dobbin]

There's. There certainly were plenty of dreamcasting still in the emails, but that's okay.

[Zach Lowe]

It's like there are only so many people on earth and I have already dreamcasted them in movies. You know what I mean?

[Sean Fennessy]

I am going the other way next episode. All Dreamcast. Every single question will be a dreamcast question. Okay, let's. Let's just go right into it. 800 episodes. What's the first question for us?

[Amanda Dobbin]

John asks. I've been thinking about your comments on the great slate of movies in 2023 and how this year I projected something similar. But imagine it will end up falling short of my expectations. This reflection has me wondering, are there obvious signs to note when you may or may not get a great collection of films come end of the year?

[Sean Fennessy]

Why is John's confidence wavering?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it's early, man.

[Sean Fennessy]

I feel like things are getting. Things are picking up.

[Zach Lowe]

Things are picking up. I do think we're going to be like maybe in for a little bit of a bumpy July, right?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. Eddington. Tonight, man. I don't know.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, so am I. You don't need to exclude me from it, but I. You understand what I'm saying? Like the big ticket movies, we're not sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

So June has been, I think, a pretty cool blockbuster summer so far. We'll talk about F1 on Friday. Yeah, we just raved about 28 years later. Materialists. Maybe not a perfect movie, but one that was very fun for the purposes.

[Zach Lowe]

Of this show and continues to be just an incredible discussion point.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's in the culture. It's making some money. So June's been fun. July, yes. Superman and Fantastic Four. There's a lot hinging on those in a variety of ways. I'm sure we'll spend a lot of time on this show breaking all those things down. Plus dinosaurs and then Jurassic World. You're right. I forgot about that. And then August is unusually loaded this year.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. But it does also have the feeling of just like well, we don't really know what to do with this. So here you go in August for some of those. And that sometimes means like, oh, here is a very fun surprise or something that we're gonna be talking about for a while. And sometimes it's like, well, this didn't pan out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's true.

[Zach Lowe]

But come September, the festivals start again. Like, we're back on the horse. Big things can happen. There's a new pta.

[Sean Fennessy]

New pta, new Spike Lee. There's a lot of stuff coming. You know, both Safdie brothers have movies coming out. I think there's a lot of stuff this year that could mean a great year. I'm definitely not ruling it out.

[Zach Lowe]

The thing that he's talking about 2023 is that there were a lot of big brand name things promised, both in the sense of Barbie is a brand name, but Greta Gerwig, you know, Oppenheimer and Spider man and basically everything hit. And so far, some of our big hopes have hit, some we've been a little disappointed by. And you never know. Right. That is kind of the fun of movies, is that then you go see it and you're just like, wow, they did it.

[Sean Fennessy]

The core of the question itself is a little hard to locate, which is, how do you know you're going to get a good movie year? We obviously spend a lot of time hyping up what's to come on the show. We do movie auctions. We talk about the movies we're looking forward to at the festivals. Yeah, this year I think it was pretty reasonable to be excited about. You know, for me, which are pretty easily the two standouts of the year so far are sinners and 28 years later. Those are the two movies that are in a very specific zone for me personally in terms of my taste and also have reached a lot of people. And, you know, movies like Black Bag, Phoenician Scheme, Warfare, these are all like the shrouds. Like, I had a pretty good feeling those movies were gonna at least be interesting to me. But I don't know that I would have known that Final Destination, Bloodlines would have been one of my favorite movies of the year.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that's a lack of introspection on your part. Perhaps. I knew. And especially once we saw the clip of the MRI machine.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, that's what I saw.

[Zach Lowe]

And it was like, oh, this has the juice. You know, creative inspiration has been found.

[Sean Fennessy]

It does. But, you know, on the other hand, you could look at the year to come and say, like, oh, my God, Mickey 17, we're still back. But, like, that movie was a little bit of a letdown for people.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I'm slightly more in the mixed camp so far this year. And I like. I really, really liked Sinners. I really, really liked 28 years later. Also, I liked 28 days later, but that was made 26 years ago.

[Sean Fennessy]

Correct.

[Zach Lowe]

So I. But like I said, you know, like, oh, my God, we got a really smart zombie movie. It's like, yeah, I'm like, that's cool. You know, like, we need to bring people to the theaters. But it's not. It's not gonna, like, stand out in my memory forever as, like, the greatest year. I really. It as, you know, Soderbergh, my guy, like, minor Soderbergh, even a little bit Phoenician scheme with Wes Anderson, which I thought was, like, great.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it, you know, was received as minor.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it's just people we really love doing their thing. Well, yes. But it's maybe not the one for.

[Sean Fennessy]

The history books, but when I was going through that list of 2023 movies a couple of episodes ago, none of these movies were released at this time of the year, aside from Past Lives. Had to blow up a pipeline. And I think that's it. And all these other movies to this point in the year had not yet come out. And most of them were like Zone of Interest, you know, Killers of the Flower Moon. These were fall awards movies.

[Zach Lowe]

Totally. But I also think, like, 2023 is the real exception. My in laws still talk about and ask me regularly because we planned our. And you and I both planned our entire summer vacations around Barbenheimer. Because as soon as that was released, you and I just, like, kind of knew. And we were like, okay, that's gonna be. We need to cover and then we can go on vacation. And so I planned my vacation with my in laws around that. And they're so like, how did you know that became such a thing? That's so amazing. And I love Rich and Jane, but I'm just like, it does not take, you know, a genius to know that that is gonna be a thing. However, even we didn't know it would be that big.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, definitely. I wouldn't have predicted that either. I think that's a good way to kind of try to answer that question, though, because Christopher Nolan is the single biggest director on the planet right now. So that's one where it's just like, anytime. We won't be going away when. When the Odyssey is coming out next year either. Like, we will. Don't, don't, you know, plan your vacation now. I think it's the second week of July, first week of July, whatever the the Zone is that he usually likes to release in, it's the same weekend every year, more or less. And then, Greta, that's your favorite director. You know, I mean, like, it's. We would never not be there for a moment like that. Even though it was a Barbie movie. And you could be like, oh, well, you could concern troll it if you wanted to.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

We never would have not showed up. And that's the way that we do the show, and that's the way we evaluate what the year is going to be, which is we have our favorites, we have our hobby horses. You know, if there's a Fincher movie or a PTA movie, we're, like, gonna be more excited than if there's not. And we look closely at the festivals, we look closely at the pipeline. Like, the reason I keep bringing up which studio is putting out what movie is. Cause I think that that also helps me dictate the slate. Like, this year was an interesting one because Universal slate, while successful financially. We'll talk about how to train your dragon in a little bit. Just doesn't have as much stuff that I'm interested in as they're going to have next year or as they had two years ago.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And that, I think, helps kind of set the expectation for what kind of a year we're going to have. Warner Brothers was concern trolled all year.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But in the back of my mind, I was like, warner Brothers slate looks like it fucking rocks. Like, I don't care if it makes money.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. But again, that was the question of, like, this looks like it could go really well if everything pans out. And so far for them, it has panned out like sinners. Absolutely rocks. Also, people went to see it, which was the main question right there. One battle after another. I think you and I are pretty confident is gonna rock.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I've now gotten several DMs about it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, we have heard all about your. See, listen, you are also talking about film on Instagram.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, well, I'm not using it too much to talk, but I am receiving information.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Wow. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, it's really more of like the Pony Express for me when I live. Dig into the DMs every 14 days. That's when I see the news.

[Zach Lowe]

That's beautiful. But we don't know how it's gonna do box office wise, so.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I don't care.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. But so, and that's another thing, right, like, of how are we evaluating, like, what's a successful year? Is it just like the movies would care about Rock for us? Do they also make literally billions of dollars? And once again, 2023 is a special example of both things happening.

[Sean Fennessy]

So Superman is such an interesting kind of triangulation for what we do on the show. You know, it's obviously somebody who annoys you.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a character that we have not really had any opportunity to talk about. Aside from our Justice League four hour Snyder cut pod. We have not really spent a lot of time talking about Superman the character, although he is an iconic American creation. And it's a huge movie for a studio that we're talking about right now. So when you have big, interesting question marks like that, it's a little hard to be like, this will be a great year.

[Zach Lowe]

Will you come on jam session before. Before I go on leave again and do like a ranking the press tours of the summer so far because everyone's like, really out here.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm less good at seeing that stuff than you are, so maybe I'll make a point.

[Zach Lowe]

I'll send you some links. What made me think of this was the photos of David Corenswet and your wife Rachel Brosnahan posing in front of the Christ the Redeemer statue. I did see that. So we're like, really, really going for this.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'd like to thank Rachel Brosnahan.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I mean, she's like, they're all trying. I think he was on the COVID of People, but, you know, then there's also, you know, the Jurassic World photo calls have started. Jonathan Bailey was wearing the RO Flip flop. It's like, there's like a whole. We have, like, a lot to discuss. People are working hard.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a big month.

[Zach Lowe]

Whether it's gonna work, it's interesting.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a big month.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. People are trying to.

[Sean Fennessy]

They are trying. We didn't really answer that question, but we did our best, and that's really what we do here. Jack, what's our next question?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Reagan asks. I'll be entering my second year of law school this fall, and I'm currently interning in Los Angeles at an entertainment law firm. My question to you both is, what are the most iconic, best movie theaters? I must grab a ticket to see while I'm here this summer. I have a car, so I'm mobile and willing to brave the LA traffic to try out some iconic theaters.

[Zach Lowe]

Love this question. Are we sure? Is It Reagan or Reagan do we think?

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know, there was some deliberation back here. We went back and forth. We're not totally sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's no a.

[Zach Lowe]

If it is like Regan, then we apologize.

[Sean Fennessy]

What character does Regan appear in?

[Zach Lowe]

She's one of the daughters of King Lear.

[Sean Fennessy]

King Lear.

[Zach Lowe]

One of the bad ones, I think. Let me make sure I got that.

[Sean Fennessy]

One of the bad ones.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, yeah. Well, not one of the nice ones. You should probably read that at some point. It's about daughters.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I'm getting some King Lear vibes personally here. Kind of end of a kingdom, end of an era, end of a life. Well, we've answered versions of this question.

[Zach Lowe]

It's fine. We can do it again.

[Sean Fennessy]

Where do you want to start?

[Zach Lowe]

Go ahead. The number one is open. Sure, yeah. Okay. Furthest west, the Arrow.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Arrow, yes. The Arrow is a wonderful theater. The American Cinematic Program's there in Santa Monica. Santa Monica is difficult for us to get to, but the 70 millimeter festival tickets just went on sale last weekend, and we both grabbed a bunch of tickets to a bunch of movies. I think I've seen one film at the Arrow. I've moderated a lot of conversations at the Arrow over the years. We've introduced films that we did Gone Girl there. Right. A couple years ago for Friend of the fest.

[Zach Lowe]

And talented Mr. Ripley.

[Sean Fennessy]

And talented Mr. Ripley, right. You did that. So we have a great relationship with American cinema tech and love what they do. They also program at The Los Fields 3 on the east side, which is recently converted roughly five or six years ago to the Cinematheque. So moving further, hold on.

[Zach Lowe]

If you're going to the Arrow R and D kitchen across the street.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. That is a part of the Houston's.

[Zach Lowe]

Chain, which I'm very passionate about. I'm not. Not paid.

[Sean Fennessy]

Here's my one note. R and D. This is incredibly important.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

You need to be open until midnight, maybe even later, because I can't get out of a movie and then not have any restaurant options or drink options in that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it is tough.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a massive impediment.

[Zach Lowe]

It's like a. It's a charming Santa Monica block. And it's like an old, old school movie theater facade and somewhat walkable, which is beautiful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Marquee.

[Zach Lowe]

But then. But that little street and there are like bakeries and coffee shops and, you know, weird stuff. But it's true that it's absolutely deserted when you get out of the movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is not what you want.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Especially if you've Driven all the way.

[Zach Lowe]

To the west side.

[Sean Fennessy]

You want to have a movie?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know of anyone in the Hillstone restaurant group that stays open past 10. I don't know whether that's allowed for them.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sounds like you should get involved.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I would love to. As you know, my first job was at a Houston's in Atlanta when I was 17. I was a hostess when I was 17 years old.

[Sean Fennessy]

Interesting. Have you thought about going back to that lifestyle?

[Zach Lowe]

I was pretty good at it. I mean, listen, you were corralling, like, serious traffic. You know, the waits at Houston's could be two hours long. Yes. And that was the case.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, I. I really like Houston's and I'm very grateful to you for introducing me to that chain.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But I don't know that I understand the fervor.

[Zach Lowe]

It's reliable. It's just like, reliable.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I will also turn over two hours of nothing to it. The people who are like, I will sit on the bench outside for two hours.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, yeah, I don't. The people without a cocktail, I don't really understand. But I have gone and just had drinks for 90 minutes and that was a great Friday night, I gotta tell you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Shocking to hear you say that. Moving further east.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

How do we.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, I forgot. We were talking about movie theaters.

[Sean Fennessy]

Egyptian, I would say the New Beverly.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, New Beverly is further west. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

New Beverly is further west on Beverly Boulevard. That's, of course, the theater owned by Quentin Tarantino, which he bought. I don't even know what it was 15, 20 years ago. Programming there is outstanding. They have a wonderful podcast, the Pure Cinema podcast, hosted by Brian and Elric, which I've been on a few times. I love those guys. I love what they do at the New Bev. We've also done rewatchables episodes at the New Bev.

[Zach Lowe]

I think geographically we skipped Academy Museum.

[Sean Fennessy]

We did, yeah. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

If I'm thinking about it. Sorry. Two East Siders are mid City Nest.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is a large city that we live in. Academy Museum is a great shout and they do.

[Zach Lowe]

They like a lot of great programming. Also do a lot of great kids programming on weekend mornings, if you're looking for that. Okay, then New Beverly and then.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then the Egyptian. I think the Egyptian is in Hollywood, which has also been recently restored and renovated. It's a. It might be the most beautiful room in the city. The Egyptian is glorious. It is owned by Netflix. Netflix mostly programs its own films there, though that. It also works in partnership with American Cinema Tech and occasionally outside programmers to put films on there. That's an awesome room. I'm also seeing. What am I seeing there? I'm seeing. Nope, in 70, on my birthday at the Egyptian. I'm very, very excited about that. Moving further east, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I guess the Vista.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Vista, yeah. Also now owned by Quentin Tarantino in Los Feliz, which also shows films only on film. Both the New Bev and the Vista only show movies on film. They also are showing first run movies. So they're getting print struck of new movies and you can see them on film. I just mentioned this about Life of Chuck. I saw sinners there on 70. I've seen a bunch of movies there over the last couple years.

[Zach Lowe]

I saw the Brutalist there.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, wonderful. I saw the Zone of Interest there by myself.

[Zach Lowe]

I saw the Brutalist by myself.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, I meant like I was the only person in the room. And it's an enormous room. The Vista is a really old school movie house that has, you know, a really kind of deep, sonorous feeling inside. Moving further east, I mean, I mentioned Los Feliz 3.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. Okay. I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that takes us to Vidiots.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then Vidiots in Eagle Rock, which is our local and is a rep theater that is a nonprofit and is wonderfully programmed. Has great stuff, like you said, for kids, for adults. I just saw Die Hard with a.

[Zach Lowe]

Vengeance on Father's Day.

[Sean Fennessy]

Your husband and cr. On Father's Day. We had an absolute ball watching that. And there's also a video store attached to Idiots. So that's like seven theaters we need.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, but those are all. Those are mostly rep. Mostly rep. No new. Do you have any new release theaters? If they close, they still won't open. The arclight Dome.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean there are a handful of Lamleys across the city that I think are pretty good depending on what part of town you're in. Just look for them. I think there's four, five, maybe even six at this point. For work purposes. I'm frequently in AMCs and regals because that they're just convenient. It's easy to lock down seats. I'm not sure if there's too many independently owned there. For years there was the Sunset 5 and then on the west side.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that's a landmark. And now it's a landmark, which I'm partial to. I also like.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a nice. The landmarks are nice.

[Zach Lowe]

The Landmarks that are. Are nice in West Hollywood and Pasadena.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. So I mean, we're just so spoiled here. Like we have. We have everything. And it does cloud our experience of going to the movies a little bit. It is different from other people. But if you come. If you want to see a down and dirty exploitation movie, you know, a crazy 80s horror movie, go to the New Bev. If you want to see something new and noisy and beautiful, go to the Vista. If you want to see a great series being programmed a number of movies over a series of days, look at what the Arrow and the Los Fields three and the Egyptian are doing. Tons of options here. Good question. What's next?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Campbell asks what is the most uncomfortable moment you've had watching a movie with your parents? For example, I remember watching Caddyshack with my dad and when Danny and Lacey are hooking up, my dad shot across the room to cover my eyes. Or even worse, when I'm older and I understand what's happening. Like when I was watching Uncut Gems and they are sexting each other and it goes on and on and on.

[Zach Lowe]

I have two, like visceral memories. One that just the dad covering your eyes reminded me of Nashville Lampoon's Christmas Vacation when what's her name comes out of the pool topless in his like dream sequence.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't remember who the actress is. Who's the. In National Lampoon's Vacation.

[Zach Lowe]

You mean Christmas vacation?

[Sean Fennessy]

Is there a pool sequence in Christmas vacation too?

[Zach Lowe]

I think I'm pretty sure. Anyway, my Aunt Betty was just like this. Maybe I'm. It's like a dream situation and I'm. Christmas vacation is what was on rotation for us. But maybe I'm confusing them. Anyway, what I remember it was.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's there. There's a sequence, I think, where the girl who is trying to sell him perfume in the mall. Yeah, she's in the pool, but I don't know if she's topless.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I think it maybe is suggested that she might be. So anyway, the hands literally like went over the eyes like this.

[Sean Fennessy]

You've never. You've literally never seen it because your eyes were covered.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes. Yeah. So that was a physical thing. My Aunt Betty also took me to see Jimmy Buffett and then did hand earmuffs like this during let's Get Drunk and Screw. But we were at a concert, so the earmuffs didn't work.

[Sean Fennessy]

Do you think of yourself as a parrot head?

[Zach Lowe]

I like the vibe a lot. I'm too uptight to actually be a parrot head, but you know me. The beach and drinking at all hours of the day at seven o' clock somewhere does speak to me. Okay, so. And I do know all of the words to the breakdown of Cheeseburger in Paradise. So let's hear it. Get in there once again. Give me the margarita first. And then that can happen.

[Sean Fennessy]

Good to know.

[Zach Lowe]

The other one.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sex mailbag margaritas.

[Zach Lowe]

The other one is sort of like the foundational, like, moment of this in my life, which is seeing Jerry Maguire with my mother and the sex scene between Kelly Preston and Tom Cruise, but then never stop fucking me. And I was just like, oh, my God, I'm sitting next to my mother. This is horrible. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think I have one that can top it.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

So my parents split up in 1993, and my dad rented a house when he moved out. And we would. Every other weekend I went to my dad's house.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And we would always watch the Saturday HBO new movie. If you were an HBO subscriber, they would, you know, release the sort of, like, the Long Svad version of our youth, where on Saturdays at 8pm they would show a relatively new release probably like nine to 12 months after it came out in movie theaters. So we all sat down to watch Sliver together as a family. I was probably 12 by the time it hit HBO. My sister was 10 and my brother was 8.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Oh, God.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I don't know how long it took before. Before a sex scene hit, but, you know, this is. That's a movie about surveillance that takes place inside of an apartment building. It starred Sharon Stone. I believe it was her first film after Basic Instinct.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

William Baldwin is in that movie. Tom Behringer is in it, Martin Landau, and it's written by Joe Esterhaus, the sleaze master himself. And I will say my dad kept watching it for a longer stretch than I would have were I in his shoes. We did eventually have to turn it off.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Because of its illicit nature.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But looking back, that feels formative.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, just being in the room for all that with my siblings, that is intense. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I had a. I had a slight parent version of this this weekend. Not like in any, like, Fire Upstream for Knox. No. But I did fire up center stage for Knox because Knox is really into ballet right now. And I was solo parenting. Cy had to nap so center stage. And, you know, I did forget how much cursing there was in it. But it is also, like, a lot of beautifully filmed ballet scenes. So I was like, okay, we're gonna be fine. Anyway, we get to the sex scene, which is a PG13 sex scene. And I can't really tell whether Knox is clocking anything. And then he just says to me, are they doing ballet at home? And I honestly thought that that was a great summary of what was happening.

[Sean Fennessy]

So an expression of the self through dance. Physical movement.

[Zach Lowe]

Please, you know, don't call the cops on me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Still haven't seen Center Stage.

[Zach Lowe]

You should show it to Alice. I mean, obviously what I just described maybe won't incentivize it, but it's really, really great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Whenever we get to a scary part of a movie, and we had that this weekend, but I'm getting to it. Don't worry. She'll say, I don't like this part. And she wants me to fast forward. And so I could tell her, oh, yeah, this is a scary part.

[Zach Lowe]

It's like. It's not. It's. First of all, they're not very good actors. They're professional ballet dancers.

[Sean Fennessy]

So shots to Zoe Saldana.

[Zach Lowe]

No, no, no. It's between. It's Jo. It's the Jodie character, and Cooper Nielsen. So. But it's not like, again, it's PG13.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got it.

[Zach Lowe]

It's just sort of the lighting and the music changes for a little, and you're like, oh, I see.

[Sean Fennessy]

This comes for us all. So it's a good question. All right, what's next?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Jack Joshua says, in the spirit of 25 for 25, I wonder if there was a movie or theatrical experience that floored you from this century.

[Sean Fennessy]

I really like this question.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It took me back to a time when I wasn't doing this professionally and I didn't have to be as locked in on what's coming next.

[Zach Lowe]

I have a few that are from this time. I see that I just went, like, off the top of my head.

[Sean Fennessy]

I admire that you had that. Yeah. I wanted to use debuts as my. The lens through which I see this, because I don't. I didn't know anything about the filmmaker, so I didn't have any expectation heading in. So these are the ones that I came up with. Same off the top of my head.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

First one was Memento. Ironic, I guess, given my relationship with Nolan over the years. The sort of the up and down arc that we have had together. Me as watcher, he has creative person. Memento, though, knocked me out. I was like, what is this? Amazing. Love the structure. Love the trickery of it.

[Zach Lowe]

Was it drafted in the 2000 draft?

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought it was a 2001 release.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, is it?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think so I'm fairly certain I.

[Zach Lowe]

Thought it was eligible. No, you're right. March 2001. Okay. That's why. Because I was very confused why it didn't go. But that's because it was not eligible.

[Sean Fennessy]

It premiered at Venice in 2000.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes. As all the great films do.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, sure. Others. Ex Machina. Yeah. Knocked out by that. Two things. It was early in the run of, obviously, Alex Garland's directorial debut. Two is, like, one of the first A24 movies. So there wasn't this, like, oh, no, A24 movie. Is it gonna be good? Is it not? We weren't thinking of things that way. Whiplash. I've talked about it many times over the years. Huge movie for me.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Raw, the French cannibal film, which I really, really loved. In Bruges, Martin McDonagh's directorial debut, Exit through the Gift Shop, popped into my head. I think we're a little bit, like, too cool for Banksy these days, but he was in his heyday, so to speak, and I really liked how that movie was structured and how it was made. And then I wrote Borat.

[Zach Lowe]

Great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Borat. In theaters.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

We were hooting and hollering.

[Zach Lowe]

That's great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, is this really happening?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I have one of those, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. What do you do?

[Zach Lowe]

I wrote down tar, which is of the span of this podcast. But I just remember, like, shifting in my seat with excitement through all of it, and then the ending being like, oh, my God, I can't believe they did this. Then bursting out laughing. One of the great movies. Napoleon Dynamite.

[Sean Fennessy]

Surprised to see this.

[Zach Lowe]

We went in college, and I remember, like, at the. I think the Nugget was the name of the theater in college. I wonder if it's still there. And we all thought it was hilarious. And then it was that kind of, like, instant making, you know, vote for Pedro jokes, like that sort of thing. It kind of took everyone.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it was head. And you haven't seen Minecraft.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, not yet. The Irishman, which we saw together. We went to the premiere at the Chinese Theater, and we didn't mention the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Chinese in our list of theaters. Yeah, I like the Chinese. I don't love it.

[Zach Lowe]

Me, too. Can you go there as, like, a. And they'll just show whatever.

[Sean Fennessy]

They screen movies there every weekend.

[Zach Lowe]

That's fine. I mean, you do have to go, like, through a giant mall to go there. The mall is also where they have the Oscars, literally.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Dolby Theater is there as well.

[Zach Lowe]

Very funny. So, you know, if you're interested in Movies. But yeah, the Irishman. We were there for the premiere and I think that movie is like deeply underappreciated. But also, again, that thing where the ending, you just, you could feel everyone breathing together in the room. It was very, very special. I also kind of had a similar thing for Wolf of Wall street when I saw it, which was like in a blizzard in New York and was just like, wow, what is this? But only one Scorsese on my list. Past lives. Another one where I remember. It's funny, I was talking with a friend of ours last week who we were talking about the great Materialists debate. And she was like, well, honestly, I wasn't that into past lives. So I turned it off and what I said was, oh, then you missed the ending. Which for me is what kind of. I remember just being like, they did it, they did it, they did it. But that was one. I just saw Opening Day in an amc.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot of people have popped their heads up out of the sand recently and been like, I didn't care about past lives in the first place. I'm like, all right, everybody, like, cool, that's great.

[Zach Lowe]

You're allowed.

[Sean Fennessy]

You have an opinion. It's okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Congrats. You know, start your own podcast. And then the last one, I just can be honest. La La Land, which I saw in the Arc Light Dome.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And again, like one of the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are you ashamed?

[Zach Lowe]

You know, we've, we've gone back and forth with La La Land as a society and like, I understand where everyone is, but again, that ending, I guess if you really nail the ending of a movie and I'm in a theater and I'm just like, wow, I can't believe this happened. But on like the largest screen possible.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't see Babylon on your list.

[Zach Lowe]

As I said, I had some thoughts about the ending of that, but the middle two hours, really good.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, let's do the next question Newton asks.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm an English teacher at a tiny school and recently got the okay to teach an elective intro to Film class next semester. I'm building the curriculum now and would love some advice. I'm designing the course as a genre study, focusing on a different genre each week and the thematic questions each genre is specifically capable of addressing with an emphasis on classic or all timer films in the genres. Do you have any recommendations for high school students that are approachable, rich, and perhaps can canonically. I can't read Sean, because you're highlighting the doc. Perhaps canonically important for the following genres. Horror, Coming of age and Romance.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm known to highlight the document often when I'm reading. That's just a tick that I have. And I did it to Jack and I apologize. So the way that I would do this were I a professor would be I would choose one film from each decade that I think meaningfully represents the transition. So you could say, or, you know, roughly the decade.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

So for horror, it's fairly simple. You know, it's the Exorcist, it's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Exorcist. It's Halloween. It's Nightmare on Elm street and Friday the 13th. These are just American phrases. You could also do the international version of it. It's scream. It's, you know, maybe the Rob Zombie Halloween, for example, to show like a kind of shift in transgression. You know, it's not. I think it would be fairly simple to locate them. You just kind of need to figure out.

[Zach Lowe]

Need to be condescending. This is a cool question.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm not.

[Zach Lowe]

And I'm really excited for all these people are very lucky that they get this class. Yeah. And a thoughtful teacher. So you just relax.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. It sounds like this teacher maybe should be working a little harder asking podcasters to design their curriculum for them. I mean, I don't, you know, what's this fellow's name? You know, Newton. Maybe time.

[Zach Lowe]

This is why we can't take you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe time to hit the books.

[Zach Lowe]

This is why we can't take you where they are. Okay, so what are your coming of age picks?

[Sean Fennessy]

It depends on how far back you want to go. I mean, you could start with American Graffiti.

[Zach Lowe]

I think you could start with a graduate.

[Sean Fennessy]

You could start with a graduate. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And then. But American Graffiti was also my 70s pick as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I mean, you could start with like Old Yeller. You know, like, I'm trying to think. There's. There were not as many movies in the 30s, 40s and 50s and 60s made for. Made about children that adults would want to watch.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Most of the children's entertainment made at that time, your sort of your Little Rascal style stuff was just for kids.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So the coming of age movie, the movie about people between the ages of like 12 and 20, I think is really more a convention of 60s into new Hollywood.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Graduate is a good call, I think. American Graffiti, my first thought as well.

[Zach Lowe]

A John Hughes for 80s Breakfast Club.

[Sean Fennessy]

For sure. That seems right. 90s coming of age. What would be your choices? What were the big ones for us? Like, there's. They get a Little stratified into genre like now. And then there's the girl version, you know, the Sandlot is the sports version.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. Is there a classical. Stand By Me is a good one. Clueless is a great one. That's a great, great show.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2000s.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, fast times. I forgot to mention that. That's also one that could go in the 80s. 2000, super bad, clearly.

[Zach Lowe]

I guess. Virgin suicides. We put in 2000s. But really, any Sophia, Lots of translation. Marie Antoinette. Yeah. 2010's Lady Bird.

[Sean Fennessy]

Probably the best one. Yeah, there's a lot of them. Okay. Romance. This is my kryptonite, as you know.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, so we're gonna do both romance and romantic comedy.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. So it Happened One Night. I mean, it's like not. You're right that it's. Then I would definitely go into Casablanca.

[Sean Fennessy]

I would put in Brief Encounter.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. What's our 50s pick?

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe one of the Billy Wilder movies. Like Sabrina, something like that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Though, I mean, like, for that one you want to do the apartment, which is 60, but that's okay. So 60s romance.

[Sean Fennessy]

Dr. Zhivago, something like that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Or My Fair Lady. Even though you're anti odd. Which is your own thing. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's not what I would want to be teaching my daughter either, had I a daughter.

[Sean Fennessy]

70S love story. Yeah, it's a pretty big one.

[Zach Lowe]

Way we were 80s. Ghost.

[Sean Fennessy]

Ghost.

[Zach Lowe]

Good call. Is like a huge one. Well, is ghost or ghost might be 1990s. What else? 80s wise romance, romantic comedy. I mean, When Harry met Sally's 89, so that obviously Ghost is 90. Pretty Woman is also 90. Let's see. English Patient 96.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, moonstruck.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, sure, yes. Thank you. One of the greats. 2000s. A tough time for romances.

[Sean Fennessy]

Why was that?

[Zach Lowe]

Because.

[Sean Fennessy]

Because of the presidents.

[Zach Lowe]

Because they gave up on women, as they always do.

[Sean Fennessy]

What about.

[Zach Lowe]

And probably also the presidents. They definitely gave up on women.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

2000'S romances.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Notebook.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Thank you. In the signature. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And of the last 2010s, 50 shades of gray.

[Zach Lowe]

Phantom thread.

[Sean Fennessy]

Mm, good one. Did we mention sliver? No.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think we did good.

[Zach Lowe]

Those are good movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, we did really well. Okay, I want to do. For the horror question. My intention around the 90s is to do the 90s horror movie canon with CR for I know what yout Did Last Summer.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, that's fun.

[Sean Fennessy]

Because they're. I guess it's a reboot and Not a remake, even though it seems very similar in structure and style. Do you have any feelings about Madeline Cline? You know who that is?

[Zach Lowe]

I'm Googling now, because I do, but. Oh, no, I don't. Who is this? She's one of the. Oh, Outer Banks. Yeah. So Outer Banks is. I thought that it was a reality show until fairly recently, and then I learned that it's not. And I know Drew Starkey is also of Outer Banks fame.

[Sean Fennessy]

He is. So she was also one of the stars of Glass Onion.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. I kind of memory hold that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. She was the young girlfriend. Yeah. And she's the star now of this new I know what you did last summer film.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I guess she's sort of in the Sarah Michelle Geller part, even though she's being pitched as the lead.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And Jennifer Love Hewitt was really more the lead of the original film. 90s horror, though. I bring that up because it's a really funky decade. Obviously, everybody remembers Scream, and they remember, like, this movie and Urban Legend and a bunch of others that came in the aftermath. Final destination.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But 1990 through 1996 is, like, a little bit of a wasteland, so I think it might be a fun exercise to do to kind of dig up what our faves are. All right. Anyway, moving on. Was that good, Newton? Did we write your whole syllabus for you? You're welcome.

[Zach Lowe]

What's Newton? I think that it's great that you're shaping the minds of tomorrow, and this sounds like a cool class.

[Sean Fennessy]

And Sean's a dick trying to get an adjunct position right here.

[Zach Lowe]

No, I'm just trying to encourage people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Jesus Christ.

[Zach Lowe]

Christ.

[Sean Fennessy]

If you need more money, just tell me, all right? You don't have to go.

[Zach Lowe]

I need more money.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's why you're on Instagram. Okay, next question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Kevin's coming in with a little bit of heat here. He says, I think it's become a cliche for you guys to say on the big picture in rewatchables that you've seen certain movies 50 to 100 times. I'm curious to hear, what are the five to 10 movies that each of you genuinely think you've seen the most in your life and how many times you actually think you've seen them?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, Kevin, that's how cable works.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Kevin, watch your mouth. You know, just relax, all right? We saw these movies a lot. Nobody's lying here.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And if we are exaggerating. All right, what are you going to do, put me in prison? No, it's just a Podcast. Everybody just settle down. There are a lot of movies that I have seen at least 18 minutes of well over 100 times in college especially. Yeah, you just put a movie on and just let it play.

[Zach Lowe]

Right?

[Sean Fennessy]

I assume people are still doing this, though. Maybe.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, it's called Netflix and chill.

[Sean Fennessy]

No. Sam says no. You're. Oh, my. Okay, well, that's a whole other conversation down the road. So in college, people are no longer just putting a movie on and letting it roll in the background while you drink, you know, Natty Lights and. And smoke a bowl. That's just not.

[Zach Lowe]

I guess that's why we don't make comedies anymore.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's. Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

You nailed it. That's the problem. God damn it. God damn it. Gen Z did it again.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, I'm not going to let Sam solely speak on my behalf, because that is not the case for me. I had a great time recently watching. What was the. What was the movie that we hate? Saltburn.

[Sean Fennessy]

Saltburn.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Throwing on Saltburn. Getting really drunk, playing cards and just being like, look, it's the time when Barry Keoghan does this thing, so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Saltburn, a great dorm room movie in so many ways. So between that and also being a latchkey kid.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I watched so many movies dozens of times, and I'm not afraid to say that I'm not exaggerating, and I'm probably in this role in life for that reason.

[Zach Lowe]

I honestly, at some point, just wrote down all of the movies that I had VHS of.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, that's the other thing is that if you owned the movie or you taped the movie off television, which I'm sure we both did, so I just did it off the dome list. Our lists are perfect snapshots of our formative times, ones I watched over and over again. Clerks, Big Lebowski 7, Die Hard, Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs. Goodfellas, godfather. That's the bro canon, right? But then also turning 16 and getting into cinema, watching Citizen Kane over and over again, watching wizard of Oz over and over again, watching it when I was five, and then watching it a lot as I got older. Those are the ones that jumped to my mind immediately. I'm sure there's more on the list. Like, Fargo is probably on the list for me there, too. What's on your list?

[Zach Lowe]

You've got Male and When Harry Met Sally, the Two Nor Ephrons, Devil Wears Prada, Four Weddings and a Funeral, Singin in the Rain, which I think was true even before I introduced it to my son. But these are all Amanda movies, and not Just movies I've watched 45 million times.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's the other thing that I didn't even add that part.

[Zach Lowe]

Bridget Jones Diary, Sound of Music, Father of the Bride, The Charles Schreier and Nancy Myers version. My Best Friend's wedding and Apollo 13. Apollo 13. I had the VHS.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's one of the great personality tests of all time. That question, what are the movies you've seen more than 50 times? Okay, Taylor got another question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Taylor asks. My question to you is about huge blind spots in your movie watching Lifetime. Sean has mentioned not seeing Mamma Mia. And I imagine Amanda hasn't seen the Exorcist or something. Any glaring omissions that people might be surprised you haven't seen?

[Sean Fennessy]

So what I did just now is I just pulled up my watch list on letterbox to answer this question. I currently have 2,584 films on my watch.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Do you like living this way?

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm very content.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. No, you're not.

[Sean Fennessy]

I am. I think. You think I'm not happy or something, but I'm okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Go ahead.

[Sean Fennessy]

You used the word thriving.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

On the show last year. And I felt a chill of resonance.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, that's great. That's nice. It's because we're happy at home with our small children.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. We have night. We have that part of our life. So the first. This is very strange. In fact, there must be a glitch in the Matrix. But the first two films right now in the watch list are both directed by the man who also directed Die Hard With a Vengeance, which I just shouted out. And I haven't seen either of these movies. Medicine man and Basic.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've never seen either of these movies, even though I'm a huge John McTiernan fan. These are considered two of his lesser efforts. I've heard. Basic is absolutely crazy.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's a great blank check series about McTiernan's films. McTiernan also was involved in some of the sordid surveillance activities. He went to prison for a stretch. You know, Die Hard, Predator.

[Zach Lowe]

He wrote the Thomas Crown sequel in prison.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Make it unproduced.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

McTiernan is truly great, but I haven't seen these movies. Lorraine Bracco and Sean Connery, do they have chemistry?

[Zach Lowe]

That's not like the Exorcist, though, which I don't think.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I don't have a lot of those.

[Zach Lowe]

I have recently watched Poltergeist, but I haven't seen the Exorcist.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Let me see if I can even just on this Page, if there's one that is particular. What are some others for you?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean what are the canonical horror movies? I don't think I've seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, what about something outside of a genre that you haven't pursued? Is there an all time romantic classic or a musical or just a pure comedy that you're like? It's on my list, but I haven't gotten to it.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm trying to think, let's see. I mean clearly there are a lot of musicals.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. I was listening to. Speaking of another podcast, I was listening to youo Must Remember this which had that great season about the old man is still alive. And it was like the great golden era. Hollywood filmmakers making films in their 60s, 70s and 80s. And I believe Vincent Minnelli was a subject of one episode. And he just made so many goddamn movies.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And Karina Longworth is going through the films that he made from his glory period all the way through his 60s. And I was like, I just haven't seen like 10 of these movies. So when you hear that.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. I mean I have those for pretty much every single director. A musical that just popped to the top of my head because I think they recently showed it at Bidiots and I was like, oh, I wish I could have gotten Victor Victoria.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh yeah, sure.

[Zach Lowe]

And I am a Julie Andrews head in a big way. But haven't seen that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Directed by her husband, Blake Edwards.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, let's see.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oscar nominated.

[Zach Lowe]

What other genres did you just throw?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a really good one. That's a good example of.

[Zach Lowe]

I know. And I really wanted to go see it. And that's another thing, like rep theaters are amazing of. You know, we were talking about the 70 millimeter festival. I have seen 2001, but I've never seen it on a big screen. So I bought tickets to that and I'm gonna get to go see it projected. Which is I think like the whole point of a gummy season.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Will you have a gummy the way your parents did?

[Zach Lowe]

You know what? My parents didn't.

[Sean Fennessy]

So never smoked no smoking grass before 2001.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't think my mother ever has.

[Sean Fennessy]

And has your either of your parents ever used the phrase we smoked grass?

[Zach Lowe]

Definitely not. But I mean my parents are slightly more uptight. You know, I love them very much.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't really like gummies, you know, I see.

[Sean Fennessy]

So more like ketamine maybe.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, that's it. I like good old fashioned alcohol. Will I try to go to R and D Kitchen Before.

[Sean Fennessy]

Before.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

I feel like there's a huge difference between gummy and one and a half margaritas at R and D Kitchen. Just.

[Zach Lowe]

Just. Well, I wouldn't have experientia. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

What would you have? Three glasses of ros.

[Zach Lowe]

No, that's too many. Because then you're just, like, a little drunk and. And. And loopy. Not more than a little. I just. I would have a Negroni.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got it.

[Zach Lowe]

Classic Negroni, though. The Hillstone thing. The one thing. They're Negroni. They're trying to put vodka in the Negroni. Like, no, thank you.

[Sean Fennessy]

And that's what they do at Hillstone.

[Zach Lowe]

That's their recipe.

[Sean Fennessy]

I feel like you have to make a couple phone calls to that corporation.

[Zach Lowe]

I. Well, I just. I asked for a classic Negroni. You know, now that the Negroni is popular, everyone's trying to do their spin. No, we do classic.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Okay. Thanks for sharing. I accidentally forgot to order a martini with a twist the other day, and they put olives in it, and I almost wanted to throw it in the garbage.

[Zach Lowe]

So olives are a no for you in a cocktail?

[Sean Fennessy]

No way.

[Zach Lowe]

But will you eat them?

[Sean Fennessy]

Mm, stuffed. I like just standalone. Not like. I don't hate it.

[Zach Lowe]

It's just not like a mustard thing.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like a tapenade.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, you do?

[Sean Fennessy]

I do.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just smear some tapenade on a piece of bread.

[Zach Lowe]

You never know with creams, dips, spreads. What's gonna be against the.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's nothing white in a tapenade. You know, that's true, but I don't want a cream based tapenade. I just want pure olive.

[Zach Lowe]

You like mayo? Actually, you will eat it in the right circumstances. But it's mustard that you won't actually have, which I still think makes you a sociopath. Where are you on pimento cheese?

[Sean Fennessy]

I like. Yeah, but lactose intolerant. So complicated.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. All right.

[Sean Fennessy]

A hot cheese. No problem. Melted cheese. A.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. But cold cheese.

[Sean Fennessy]

Little dicey.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Got to use sparingly.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you think that's about the lactose, or is that about temperature?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's what they. They say. The.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh. Because it's breaking it down. The. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. This is what I've learned in my exploration into lactose knowledge.

[Zach Lowe]

Got it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. This has been helpful.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What's the next question Grayson asks over the years? I've had so many negative cinema experiences because of people talking, people on their phones, etc. I've never heard you talk about these kinds of things. I'm wondering if this is much of an issue for you, and if so, how do you deal with it? I've had some incredible movies ruined by rude people.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm having a bit of a turning point with this experience in my life now. There's two things at play. One is everyone, myself included, is more addled by their phone than ever. They feel the need to look at their phone all the time. It really hit hard for me after we had Alice because I was like, is everything okay at home for the first two years of her life? So I was always kind of trying to make sure that everything was fine. Then over time, you're just, like, constantly looking at social media and it, you know, invades your brain and attaches it to yourself, and you can't not look all the time. So that's one, two. I had this experience on Friday. I saw 28 years later off the Plane, Long Crazy Morning, and it was a little harder than usual to retain the information from the movie. Now I never take notes during movies ever.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I need to start doing that. How will I do that? I don't really like to write in the movie theater, and I don't want to have one of those pens that has a light on it. But then I would want to use a notes app if I can. And I'm not disturbing anyone near me. But one, it's incredibly difficult to not disturb someone when your phone is out, and I don't like it when other people do it to me. And two, if you look down, you're not looking at the movie and you're missing things. And I felt myself even watching 28 years later, like, trying to look down at something. And then, because I was in the theater all by myself and then look back up and I was like, oh, I just missed, like 12 seconds. And that was important, what I missed there. And I'm bringing all of that up to say that I feel that I'm a very respectful movie watcher. I don't disturb other people. I try to be very quiet. I try not to look at my phone, historically. And I know that this is something that is bugging people more and more and it's an impediment to moviegoing. But I also know personally that, like, it's hard. It's increasingly hard to do the job that we're doing and get it right. And people all the time when we make mistakes are like, why you guys such fucking idiots? And two, that people are just addicted to their phones. Like, it's just a fact.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

And so in the movie theater experience, for example, I'm sorry, I'm rambling. Just go with me. This has been on my mind recently. We saw Elio yesterday and we saw it in an iPic, and I sat next to Alice and we were in a pod. And in those pods, you can just look at your phone.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Nobody else can see you. Everything is blocked around you. You're not disturbing anyone by doing it. Especially if you turn the. The brightness all the way down. And so there are like increasingly environments being created where you can look at your phone while you're in the movie theater.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

So, like, they gave me the WI FI password when I walked into the movie theater.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

So there was.

[Zach Lowe]

Because it's in a basement.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it is in the basement. Yeah. So all to say.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. May I. May I speak on this?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, you may.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, sorry. Yeah, no, it's complicated. I mean, the larger issue is that like, the social contract is broken, like writ large. And it's just not. It's not just at movie theaters, like people are like, using their phones and just like taking phone calls, like, blasting music, like, just. Just being rude in, in phone and non phone related ways everywhere, all the time. Like, we forgot how to be around people or be respectful of people. And that sucks. So I wish everyone would just like, be a little more thoughtful to everyone else. I'm with you on the. I mean, last week Zach was out of town and so I needed to see a few movies for work. But like, I was. And I, you know, our nanny was with the kids. But like, if someone, if. If they needed me, like it was.

[Sean Fennessy]

You might have to leave at any moment.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, Like I was. I was the parent on call. So, you know, I turn the brightness down. I try to see place. I try to see movies at times when I'm not gonna be like, in a packed theater. And I do also try to pick seating in a way where like, there aren't people behind me. That doesn't mean that I'm like suddenly on Twitter all the time. I'm never on Twitter, but I turn the brightness down and I just kind of like have it so that if. If like a call pops up, you can look, I can take it, and. But otherwise I'm like, not looking at my phone. But that's just kind of how life is right now. So in the same way that people need to be respectful of other people, like, you also got to give people a little grace, you know, don't be a loud asshole wherever you are in life, whether it's at the movies or not.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you clock the person sitting next to me at F1?

[Zach Lowe]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

So we went to see F1 last week, and we went to an influencer screening.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I was sitting next to a really young guy. He honestly seemed like he was 19.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And he looked at his phone, I would say, 75 times during the screening. Now, he looked at it really up close to his face, and his brightness was extraordinarily low, so there was no light really emanating from the phone. But even the actual of pulling the phone out and getting it close is.

[Zach Lowe]

A distraction, of course.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I could tell that he was just a kid who was just addicted to his phone. And I'm like, there's nothing there that could have possibly happened for you.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

In the repeated usage that you're doing. But it is indicative of a direction that we are heading that is actually a challenge to movies and a challenge.

[Zach Lowe]

To life in general.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And, you know, it makes me nervous about, like, our kids. Like, Cy is 8 months old and knows exactly that the phone is the most valuable commodity and crawls towards.

[Sean Fennessy]

I watched him chew on it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, part of that is that he wants to chew on anything right now, but, no, he spots it and it, like, crawls towards it. So that doesn't really help Grayson, who's just trying to, like, watch a movie without someone watching TikToks. But here's one thing that we can do. Headphones or silent. No projecting music. Nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants to hear it at a restaurant. Nobody wants to hear it on public transportation. No one wants to hear it at the beach. Keep your Bluetooth speakers at home. Listen to the ocean. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Were you saying that Jesus Christ is making the sounds of the ocean?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, he might be, you know, and where else are we going to experience him but at the ocean?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's great.

[Zach Lowe]

But I. So turn the sound off. Turn the sound off on your phone, all of you children. Tiktoking. Turn the sound off. This is also, like, I don't understand why people are so good at, like.

[Sean Fennessy]

Gen Z, Mommy arrived.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, all of the voice messages, you know, like, when are we listening to that? Because I'm constantly using my phone in places where I'm not supposed to be using it, where I need silence. So think about that. You know, no sounds.

[Sean Fennessy]

Boom. Okay, you're welcome. Next question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Can I add one thing before we move on?

[Zach Lowe]

Sure, you absolutely can. Are we being too old?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, not at all. I was just going to say we talked a lot about phones, but not about people talking, which I find to be the much more distracting issue in theater.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Because I understand, like, if you're a mom, if you're a dad, you need to check your phone. You just pull it out five seconds, check a text, put it away. That's not really a big deal to me. The issue is people narrating their inner thoughts aloud whilst watching a movie as if they're on their living room couch.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I had an experience at the Academy museum. It was Moneyball. Bennett Miller was there, did an intro, and him and his family sat next to my girlfriend and I and they watched the film. Bennett Miller said it was the first time he'd actually watched the film since it had been made. It was really cool. And the people sitting directly behind me talked aloud almost the entire movie. Not at like a loud volume, but loud enough to where I could hear them say, Brad Pitt is so sexy. And I had to turn around and tell them, like, can you please stop talking? And in the. Even in the most polite way, you could just tell that they were frustrated by me telling them that. But I don't. I don't know any other solves other than telling people politely that it's not okay to talk during a movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that's crazy that people do that.

[Zach Lowe]

I do. But that is also. I do think that's like not a movie specific problem. I mean, don't do that. But it's just like, don't. Don't be the person who can't read the room and is not aware that you're disrupting other people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Unless. Unless. Unless it's a horror movie and when someone yells, don't go in there, like, then that's great that I actually love that.

[Zach Lowe]

And I think like, cheering and some level of audience participation is okay also. Listen, Sean and I will tell each other one or two jokes per screening, but we're like very quiet and it's not running commentary.

[Sean Fennessy]

Agreed. But I'd say we're fairly. It's basically a one liner.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. That we've been working on. But it is funny. It's usually like, oh, I wrote that piece of music for the movie. I chose it. I re recorded this just for you.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, you just ruined the joke. You know, you just broke the spell.

[Zach Lowe]

By saying it out loud every time it's funny. It's like, that's my trumpet solo anyway. You know, be aware. Just like, have some respect for other people.

[Sean Fennessy]

I wish you could have seen Chicken Jockey with me.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I mean, that's the other thing. I'm sort of like, if you're going to a Minecraft movie with teens, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But that's me at one battle after another.

[Zach Lowe]

I liked it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Throwing popcorn on everybody.

[Zach Lowe]

Jack Black had to like record a message being like, don't throw popcorn. And like the, all the. I felt bad for the theater workers, but otherwise I think it's pretty funny that 10 year olds were just fully like chicken jockeying out.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, I thought it was fun. So I, you know, I don't want people dumping food on people's heads or anything like that.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it was, you know.

[Zach Lowe]

It'S, it's a movie made for 10 year olds to be insane, like La Strada.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know what I mean? Like, you were in Minecraft. It is what it is.

[Zach Lowe]

I agree.

[Sean Fennessy]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is all about choices. For example, what happens when you show up at the movies and you're not totally sure what you want to see? Maybe Final Destination, Bloodlines, maybe Lilo and Stitch. You've got to make a choice. At State Farm. Their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create a competitive price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. The Disney plus Hulu Max Bundle. It's the ultimate bundle for an unbelievable price plan starting at 16.99amonth. Get it and watch Marvel Television's Iron Heart on Disney plus. I want to build something iron iconic. A new season of the Bear on Hulu. We can make people happy. And the epic a Minecraft movie on Max.

[Zach Lowe]

Anything you can imagine is possible.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Disney Plus Hulu Max bundle plan starting at $16.99 a month. All these and more streaming soon. Terms apply. Visit disney+hulu maxfundo.com for details. Okay, what's the next question?

[Amanda Dobbin]

We have a pair of questions. One specifically for Sean, one specifically for Amanda. Tucker asks, Sean, what is your system for giving a star rating on letterboxd? It seems random, but that seems unlike you. And Andrew asks for Amanda, what do you think of Sofia Coppola's daughter? Romy Mars music career? Have you heard a lister bop or. Nah, I'll go first.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I try to rate every single at least every single new movie that I see over the year, unless a person I know worked on the movie. If a person that I. If you see a new movie that's come out that I haven't rated that I've logged, it's usually because I feel like I can't objectively have an opinion about it.

[Zach Lowe]

Right, right, right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't rate right away after I log for two reasons. One, I'm often embargoed when I see movies. Two, I do log it in my private document, but not on letterbox. So, like, I make my rating and then I'll add it to letterboxd well after our episode has come out, because I want people to listen to what we have to say on the show, which we talked about. My system is like, it's not complicated. One of the things I like about letterboxd is it gives you this rule of 10 quality, where 5 stars with halves is a 1 through 10. So every movie is a 1 through 10. I remember vividly we had our deep brutalist conversation, and I made a joke that was not a joke to you, which is I was like, this is a four and a half star movie. It's not my favorite movie of the year. It's not my favorite movie of the decade. It's not a perfect movie. It has its flaws. It's a nine out of 10. That's like a very comfortable place for me to think organizationally, categorically and emotionally about how I feel about a movie. Did it get me to that, like, top register, or what would I take away from it? Not a lot of movies for me get one star. If a movie gets one star or.

[Zach Lowe]

Less, what is one star on your letterbox right now?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think Free Guy is probably one star. I mean, I could dig into my stats, but that usually means that I think it's a deeply cynical thing that has happened and kind of corrosive to society ultimately. So I've logged since 20203752 Films.

[Zach Lowe]

Congratulations.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you. Sort by your rating. Lowest. First. I gave Dolittle half of a star.

[Zach Lowe]

You were so mad when we saw that. That was one of the last pre pandemic movies, and you were really pissed. I remember that. We saw that together.

[Sean Fennessy]

Garbagio.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, we saw that at the arclight.

[Sean Fennessy]

Black Adam, half of a star.

[Zach Lowe]

Never saw that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Trolls. I gave one star.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, the original Trolls.

[Sean Fennessy]

The original Trolls.

[Zach Lowe]

Trolls World Tour.

[Sean Fennessy]

No. Though we did do an episode about that, and I'm sure that's why I watched Trolls. I gave Ryan Murphy's the Prom. One star.

[Zach Lowe]

That was quite unfortunate.

[Sean Fennessy]

I have a very angry man of Steel review.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, you were really big mad about that. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's just like an offering of things.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. Is Kevin Costner the dad in man of Steel?

[Sean Fennessy]

He is actually. That star is for his performance, which I believe I cited in my review. So thanks for remembering that. There's a whole bunch. Madame Web, that was one star. Argyle, that was a one star.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that you have lost your ability to experience fun. If Madame Web is a one star, it's at least one and a half the Pepsi Can. Come on. Why is she holding it like that?

[Sean Fennessy]

To me, that's not purposeful and interesting. And I don't like relish bad.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't really either. But sometimes it can.

[Sean Fennessy]

Can left your experience with it. I get it.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I get it. And I don't begrudge people who are like, bad movies make me happy.

[Zach Lowe]

I typically am not. Like, I don't find joy in incompetence. This understatement of the century. But I thought that. Oh, fast X. Yeah. Again. Big mad Sean Pennnessy.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. One star.

[Zach Lowe]

Put it in the newspaper.

[Sean Fennessy]

Don't put it in the newspaper, put it on the podcast. Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay. My question. Absolute bop. Yeah. Come on. Let's be real.

[Sean Fennessy]

Haven't heard it.

[Zach Lowe]

It's good.

[Sean Fennessy]

And like, it's called a lister.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a lister and it's about. Well, what is it about? I think it's sort of about dating or being or meeting a movie star or something. It is like it's self aware. The first time I heard it, I was like, what's going on here? This is like a little strange and. But it has the bones of a good song. I like the production choices. I like the way that she's performing. You know, like, I like that. I don't know what we would call the R's that she's doing. Whether it's like vocal fry or. But there is some sort of like speech thing in the way that she's singing. Yeah. Her mom directed the music video. Like, I don't really know.

[Sean Fennessy]

She's 18.

[Zach Lowe]

I think so. Or maybe 17.

[Sean Fennessy]

Good God.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, she's a third generation Coppola, you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Know, I get it.

[Zach Lowe]

And also her father.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's young to be thrust into. I mean, I guess Sofia was as well.

[Zach Lowe]

I think she herself, obviously she was in Megalopolis and she is innocent of any charges there. And also. Sure she was.

[Sean Fennessy]

Might be time to rewatch that.

[Zach Lowe]

Did you watch English Teacher The FX show.

[Sean Fennessy]

A couple of episodes. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

She's in one of them and it's funny. So I'm. I'm pro. And again, I. That TikTok of being grounded and because she tried to charter a helicopter and then like, everything about that TikTok is spectacular. She has real gifts. So I'm pro.

[Sean Fennessy]

Great. I'll have to listen to a lister. What's next, Jack?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Mike asks. I am one of the sickos who listens and loves every episode of the Big Picture, but who goes to the movies just once or twice a year due to work, family, etc. Which yet to be released. 2025 movie would you most recommend for someone who loves seeing a popcorn blockbuster in the theaters?

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, I haven't seen Jurassic World, Superman or Fantastic Four. I have not seen Avatar 3. My gut tells me Avatar 3 would be the answer to this question, because the Avatar movies in a movie theater, whether you like the stories or not, are usually an incredible visual feast. It's a great popcorn bucket movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I mean, the other answer is F1.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's what I was gonna say. I think the actual answer for what is your kind of core text. And we're giving away some of our feelings for Friday's episode, but that movie delivers on a very specific Jerry Bruckheimer formula of fun time at the movies.

[Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I think you're right. I think that's probably the answer now. It's possible those July movies will be very satisfying in that same way. But F1 has that, like, we know where this is going the whole time.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Everything is very exciting. The set pieces are like electric, thrilling.

[Zach Lowe]

And you want it. And it's just. I don't think it would play as well on, like, at home.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not exactly an intellectual feast, but a fascinating production for a variety of reasons.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I agree with you. I think F1. Okay, let's do a couple more and then we'll talk about Elio and the Dragon movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes, Cordero is coming in with some Bill Simmons commentary, potentially. Are we sure Tubi is a good thing? As much as I appreciate a free streaming service having the original 1922 Nosferatu, is it a good thing for it to continually be interrupted by Febreze and Tide commercials?

[Sean Fennessy]

I say yes. To me, access is everything. If something is available, it's better than it being difficult to find for anyone. And anybody being able to have tubi on their laptop, their iPad, their phone, their set top box, whatever, however they choose to watch that service, even if it has commercials. I Mean, we grew up watching movies supported by commercials on TNT and abc, NBC, all the local channels were all airing movies on the weekends. So I don't think it's a bad thing at all. Nosferatu is an interesting one, right. It's like, it's in the public domain now because it's over 100 years old. So you should be able to get it anywhere. You should be able to get it in your library. You should be able to get it anywhere online. It should be free. There's something dystopian about a tide commercial appearing in the middle of an airing of Nosferatu, but I think it's good.

[Zach Lowe]

I simply will not do it. I absolutely. I will not watch any commercials in my streaming stuff. Like, absolutely not. I have quit series because they're unavailable or I wasn't subscribed.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, I have a zero tolerance.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just because you find it annoying.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I just, like, I don't have the time or patience for this. I know there's another way.

[Sean Fennessy]

Would you advise people do the same for podcasts?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean. No, but listen, I just. I can't do it. And I'm. I think your point about access is good, but libraries is. I think Nosferatu should be available on library. I've been trained to expect no commercial.

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought this was all about feeding your children.

[Zach Lowe]

It is about feeding my children. But he's asking as a consumer, you know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, good to know.

[Zach Lowe]

So there we go.

[Sean Fennessy]

Marxist. Amanda. Yeah. Next question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think this is a fun one. This is from Aidan. If you were an emerging A list talent, who are the three directors you would work for right now to ascend to greatness?

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, there's a few obvious ones. Yeah, right. You could say if you could get the opportunity to work with Christopher Nolan, Greta Gerwig and Jordan Peele.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. I mean, those are the answers.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right. That's what you would do. Because they make big, accessible movies with big ideas that lots of people want to see. They are the kind of the meeting point of art and commerce. Right?

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. I mean, I would add.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is that the right answer, though?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, Christopher Nolan is like the number one answer if your goal is to catapult yourself to fame at this point, you want to be in the Odyssey, you know, like, you want to see if you can do, like a pickup as a person in a toga. Like, it's just like, I think you, like, show up with your own sheet, you know, and, like, see how far it gets you.

[Sean Fennessy]

But he doesn't really launch stars. He really Uses a star system.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. But I think there is something about, if you are in the Nolan movie, like, it, like, cements something for you. And even when we were doing our movie star list, we were kind of like, oh, well, like this person whose name we know and, like, you know, Oscar winners, like, but we included them because they're going to be in the Odyssey.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right, right.

[Zach Lowe]

So it's sort of like. And if this is your strategy, like, I think you got an angle for him. I was just reminded of when my husband Zach interviewed Ben Affleck, and Ben Affleck was talking about they were doing the Matt Damon comparison, and he's like, I'm not. Not. He was like, I'm not saying no to people. And he's like saying, no Scorsese, no Spielberg, I'm. He's like, it's not like I was saying, no Scorsese, no Spielberg, I'm not going to be in your movie. So Scorsese and Spielberg seem to be two people that, you know, would also belong on the list.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I think those are the two still active.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Lions whose movies are still awaited as sort of events. Spielberg's box office strength has obviously been diminished a little bit in the last five years, even though I think he's making some of his best movies of his career. But he's now got a huge blockbuster alien movie coming next, so maybe he's looking to take the crown back in that respect. I don't know who is the most exciting. I think Daniels and Sean Baker and Chloe Zhao. And the winners of Best Picture over the last five or six years, I think is kind of an interesting thing to look, because some of those filmmakers kind of seize the moment. We know Shawn Baker is probably just going to go make another Sean Baker movie, but he was able to catapult Mikey Madison directly into the A list. So there's definitely like, a rung of star. I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was very good for Margot Robbie, of course, for example, even though she was the third lead of that movie, that took her from like a minus to A. And then she capitalized on it hard with Barbie, and then is now kind of in that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Leading that inner circle. So, you know, there's always going to be filmmakers like that, and then there's always filmmakers who, like, you know, like, David Fincher doesn't make stars. No, he uses them.

[Zach Lowe]

He also primarily makes movies for Netflix now, which I think, as everybody else we just listed. I do think you want to be in theaters if you want to Be.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think you're right.

[Zach Lowe]

Catapulted.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think you're right.

[Zach Lowe]

Listen, and I'm looking forward to the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sequel and all three Mindhunter movies that are allegedly happening to one. Hold McCallany interview.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, we'll see about that. Okay, let's do one last question.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Georgia asks because the biggest box office successes of the year have all been for the PG audience and primarily are sequels or remakes. Who is a filmmaker you think would make an excellent original movie for children?

[Sean Fennessy]

An interesting question. So this was actually a point of discussion on the town this morning, the rise of the PG movie. It's something that I was hoping to talk about with Elio and How to Train youn Dragon. So we can use this as a, as a bridge to that convo. The PG question is fascinating. I think, you know, that group of people, Shazelle Peele, Greta, is making a Narnia movie. You know, like, they're.

[Zach Lowe]

That's not original, but. Yes. Yeah, right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not an original. But they're all entering a phase where they either have children, are going to have children, and they're going to start to think about what movies to make for their kids. You know, like, look at the arc of Steven Spielberg's career. Look at how he viewed childhood and parenting in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And then look at how he progresses through to ET and look at how he progresses through to Jurassic park and Hook and all the other movies he made. So I am always more interested in those kinds of people, you know, like, is Denis Villeneuve going to make like a warm PG original family comedy? Like, that's not, he's not going to make Mrs. Doubtfire. You know what I mean? I would watch Denis Villeneuve's Mrs. Doubtfire, but that's not really. It doesn't really seem like the kind of thing he wants to. I don't know. Who am I forgetting? Who am I not thinking about?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, it's just really like our directors, you know, and I would like to, to see. I mean, Sophia Coppola makes movies for teenage girls, but, you know, Gret is already doing it. I don't know who the. The other thing is. Like, I don't really want any of my favorite directors to make a movie for children. I want them to make a movie that I could also watch with my child. And maybe it would be a little inappropriate at times, but that's how we learned about the world, right? Which is just, you know, being like, are they doing ballet at home? And then. And Then you learn something new.

[Sean Fennessy]

They grow up so fast.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Speaking of growing up, let's get into it. Thanks for all those questions. You guys are the best. We really appreciate you listening so closely to the show and asking such thoughtful ones. Let's talk about Elio first. Elio is the new Pixar movie. It has three directors, sort of. We will explain what the sort of means, but Dome Shih, who directed Turning Red, Madeline Sharafian and Adrian Molina, who was one of the writers of Coco now, the movie was written by Julia Cho, Mike Jones and Mark Hammer and features the voice work of Jonas Kibryeb, Zoe Saldana, Remy Edgerly, Brad Garrett, Jamila Jamil, and we hear the wonderful voice of Carl Sagan throughout this film. It's a space alien abduction adventure movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It is a slightly different flavor, I think, from any previous Pixar movie, but it is still very much an animated movie for kids. I took my 4 year old to see it yesterday.

[Zach Lowe]

We're rounding up already.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, less than a month away.

[Zach Lowe]

I know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Two and a half weeks.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm clinging on.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I know. I'm pumped. Four is.

[Zach Lowe]

Where's my party invite?

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, it's supposed to go out today. Oh, that's so exciting. Yeah. So anybody out there who thinks they're friends with me and doesn't get that.

[Zach Lowe]

Invite, I'm sorry, I want to let you know that you can just. Just send it to me. You don't have to waste coins on the whole family.

[Sean Fennessy]

I see. Your husband doesn't read email, Is that what you're saying?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I just like, I went through this, but the paperless post coins, they're valuable, so it's okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'll alert the inviter, which is my wife, at least in this case. This movie was supposed to come out last year in March and it got kicked to this year. Speculation in the industry is that it's sort of been dumped, especially because it was going neck and neck in the release calendar with how to Train youn Dragon, which we'll get to shortly. And it bombed at the box office.

[Zach Lowe]

It is the single have been quite snide about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yep, yep. It is the single biggest, worst opening weekend in Pixar history. People don't seem to care about this movie. Yeah, I thought it was perfectly nice.

[Zach Lowe]

I thought I was fine. So it was funny. We were talking about when to go see it and you kept pitching me on like, you know, I'm going to take Alice, we're gonna go on Sunday. Like you could come with us. And it just never occurred to me to take Knox to see this movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

Interesting.

[Zach Lowe]

And having seen it, I don't really think he's just too little still. You know, he's only three, so I think that he would have been scared by it. And I did. I did have a moment of like, existential parental concern while watching it because it, you know, it's a classic Pixar story of like, a child who has experienced a devastating loss and then has to, you know, work through circumstances and like, and find a new community. And like, that's a beautiful story. And I, and I thought the Elio character was very cute and like, I was rooting for him and he's like a little weirder than your normal Pixar guy. And, you know, they're these like small little computer beings. You want them to find love. But I was like, oh, this is really upsetting. And I don't know if I, like, want Nox to experience this yet. But then I was like, oh, am I shielding Knox from all like, the hard things in the world? And does he have to learn about emotions somehow? But then I was like, does Nox have to learn about a situation in which both his parents die and he doesn't have any friends and so he has to get abducted by aliens in order to understand love? Like, is that what I need to be teaching my 3 year old? And ultimately I ended on no. So.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, it's entertainment. You know, this isn't exactly like opening a geometry textbook, I think, but is it entertaining? I. If you want to use the parlance of Roger Ebert, I think a movie like this can create empathy.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

That you don't have to see everything of the world about yourself and Elio's experience and what he is struggling with.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But they can, it can teach you to feel something. And, you know, movie like this is actually quite powerful to see through a child's eyes. Saw it with my daughter. She was locked in. She really, really liked it a lot and much more than I did, that's for sure. And my wife was bored to tears during this movie. At the end of the film, there's a critical choice that Elio has to make between one community and another. And Alice turned to me in the movie much as you would turn to me to deliver a snide one liner. And she said, I really hope Elio goes back with his family.

[Zach Lowe]

That's nice. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And to me, the movies can teach you to understand the world and your feelings in that way. Like, I take that very sincerely. And I was like, so moved to hear my daughter communicate that so clearly that she not only understood the story, but understood that the character was thrust into this position and had to make a meaningful choice. So, you know, do I want to have to explain to her how Elio's parents died and what the circumstances were and how this is actually a product of a troubled production? And originally there was supposed to be a mother character played by America Ferrara, who was then written out of the movie. And then they replaced her with an ant character who was voiced by Zoe Saldana.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't explain any of that to her. Yeah, yeah, she's listening to this episode. Hello, Alice. You may enjoy that information. Huge America Ferreira fan. She thought her speech in Barbie was fantastic.

[Zach Lowe]

She's seen Barbie?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, no, she really, really, really wants to see Barbie. Really? Really?

[Zach Lowe]

I'd like to be there when she does.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Maybe we can arrange that in nine years. Okay. So in that respect, I thought it was okay to take a kid to.

[Zach Lowe]

I think it was fine to take a kid to. I was more interrogating my own choices.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right.

[Zach Lowe]

And my responses to these things. And it's a little bit that question of, so this is a PG movie instead of a G movie. My, My child is three years old. And so like, how old is to, you know, is. Is the right age and how serious, you know, of a movie do, or like how serious the themes do we want to present to small kids? And, and that sort of. And I, and I agree with you that ultimately it's, it's positive. It's totally fine. I just was like, I don't know why I, My instinct was just like, no, absolutely not.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I think one of the reasons why that was the instinct of many people who opted not to see it is because we can get into whether the marketing was effective or not, what the state of the original animated film is, per that last question in the mailbag. But to me, this movie was very self selecting in terms of the kind of story that it's trying to tell in a way that I think is a little bit declassee right now. It's a post 80s boys sci fi movie. You know, it's, it's. It's right after ET There was this wave of movies. Flight of the Navigator, Mac and Me, Explorers, a whole list of movies that I saw in theaters when I was a little kid. And they were all. I loved them all. They were all great. I was a burgeoning sci fi fan. But, you know, those characters had very few female characters Those films had very few female characters.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

The perspective was very locked in on adolescent boys, the wonders of space and the idea of a friend beyond the world that, you know, which ET Obviously introduces in a big way to us. And this movie's right out of that playbook and all the winks and nods. There's the analyst character is named Melmac, which is the name of Alf's home planet from the TV show Alf. Kate Mulgrew being the narrator of the Voyager 1 museum. She of Star Voyager. Carl Sagan's voice being used at the beginning and the ending of the film. These are like easter eggs for 45 year old men.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I guess you're right, but it did not read to me as particularly gendered as opposed to just very like sci fi coded. I mean my response to this was like ET And Star wars exist. So like why, you know, we can just show our children that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But I did, I didn't really feel like.

[Sean Fennessy]

But like this movie doesn't really have any strong female characters in it aside from his aunt.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, his aunt who's like an Air Force pilot and she's ranking. And she wants to be an astronaut.

[Sean Fennessy]

She's very secondary to the story though.

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe, maybe that matters, you know, more to Alice. But I didn't feel like, I didn't feel like it was like this is like boy stuff only. And I actually did think like the creature and the universe design was like very honestly like pink and purple coated. It was. But it was like it had like a lot of Lisa Frank in it to me, which I like know is a color that is very popular with all small children, including my son. But definitely traditionally is like girl coded. So I didn't really think that it was like exclusionary in that way. It was more just that it was, you're right, like very sci fi and if you're not into that, you won't go see it and. Or you can watch ET and you can watch Star wars, which the like I thought of the cantina, all the creature design was like very reminiscent of, but like not quite as good.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not.

[Zach Lowe]

With the exception of my beloved Glordon.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, Glordon, who becomes Elio's best pal and is the son of a brutal ruler in a far off galaxy named Grigon, who wears a carapace to protect himself and battle. I don't know if I'd ever heard the word carapace said out loud.

[Zach Lowe]

I haven't either.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, so that was, that was interesting to hear. I don't know I to me, I saw it in a tradition of like failed boy movies that Disney, Pixar has been trying to do since the 70s. And that list of movies includes and maybe I'm off base, but the black hole in tron in the 70s and 80s. Titan A and Treasure Planet. Yeah, in the early aughts. Tron Legacy, John Carter in Tomorrowland in the 2010s. Okay, there's like every 10 or 15 years Disney and Pixar tries to capture this audience, this kind of Star wars audience with an animated film or a fanciful live action movie and it basically never works. It never really pulls people in and they keep trying it. And I think some of the issue here is that this movie's just not that great. It's really bottom tier Pixar. So that being the case, plus the fact that it isn't four quadrant, for lack of a better phrase, the way that Minecraft is right now, you know, like Minecraft has a boy lead and a girl lead and it has crazy Jack Black. You know, to me it's trying to speak to as many people as it possibly can. And this movie felt a little bit more tightly focused. Doesn't make it a bad thing. It's just kind of something that is unusual. And there's been so much debate over what Pixar is now.

[Zach Lowe]

I just thought it was kind of boring, honestly.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I mean I wrote down here that you can kind of feel the mid production shift in the story while watching it. Like it feels almost like the animated version of why aren't these actors in the same scene where you're like, oh, there was a reshoot where like one guy was in Tanzania and the other guy was in Cleveland and they were having to like have a phone call together, but they can only film them separately because they were making another movie at the same time. It kind of felt like that where like pace is kind of off and a little rickety. It's very predictable and yet my 4 year old loved it. Yeah, whatever.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, that's nice.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's good. I don't know if there is a Pixar crisis so much. Okay. Do you subscribe to the theory that putting Pixar movies directly on Disney kneecapped their operation inside out to massive success notwithstanding?

[Zach Lowe]

Probably. But at the same time, I think just the existence of Disney, you know, it's like once you have the ability to watch all the stuff at home, then whether it's new stuff or whether it's watching moana for the 85 millionth time like that, the behavior of watching movies just becomes recorded at home. So I don't know whether it's Disney or brand new movie on Disney because.

[Sean Fennessy]

It'S weird, because the outliers represent something unusual. Lilo and Stitch and Moana two and Inside out two are massive. And Lion King to the Mufasa film also turned out to be a pretty solid hit.

[Zach Lowe]

The pattern is no different from grown up movies, which is that the really big movies or things that people decide like, oh, this is an event, or like, oh, we recognize this, or, oh, this is franchise. Oh, this is, you know, the next installment of a thing. I have 45 action figurine figurines of is something I go see and then everything else, I wait till it's at home on streaming.

[Sean Fennessy]

So how do we get Sinners for kids movies? Well, that's the thing. Yeah, that's the real challenge right now I have.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, you find a generational talent with a great idea and give him like hundreds of millions of dollars. And then it works like, this is the. You know, that's it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I gotta support the vision.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. Like I'm Sinners is like incredible and an incredible success story. But I do think, like, we do it and ourselves a disservice by being like, well, how do we do another one? You know, it's like, you're not gonna get another one. Well, I know, but I'm just saying, you know, you keep trying and then every once in a while, you know, then you get some. Some Elios. I almost said Luca's there, but I don't even remember what. I never saw Luca.

[Sean Fennessy]

Luca was released in theaters. It was an original. It is another in a long line of originals that have struggled somewhat. Obviously Raya and the Last Dragon Turning Red. And there was one more that I'm forgetting right now that all more or less went either straight to or had short shelf lives onward. Had a very short shelf life in the movie theater before COVID hit. So people have kind of gotten out of the habit of going to original.

[Zach Lowe]

That was another. My parents died and then I had to, like, be my big brother. I had to go to Medieval Times.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sure. Yes. That's what happened. They went to Medieval Times.

[Zach Lowe]

I cried a lot.

[Sean Fennessy]

The next movie that they're putting out is also an original Hoppers. There's a little. Apparently this is a stinger at the end of Elio. I assume you did not stick around. You did not learn your lesson from Sinners. You did not wait for the post credit sequence at Elio.

[Zach Lowe]

I did stay at the. I stayed for a long time a Materialist.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. You're waiting for the huge record scratch. This is actually a Captain America movie.

[Zach Lowe]

They're all in this. They're at City Hall.

[Sean Fennessy]

That button down shirt he was wearing and revealed caps back. Materialist is a Cap 5 prequel. Hoppers is coming out March 6, 2026.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Stinger, and I don't mind spoiling it right now, I think it was for Hoppers because they pitched Hoppers at the end of it with a title card was a lizard pressing an emoji button on a phone. That was the lizard emoji button. And every time you pressed it, it said, lizard, lizard, lizard, lizard. Did you guys see this? No. Okay. Nobody saw this. I think that was for Hoppers, which I believe is about rabbits, but I don't know. Okay, that's in next March.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is that gonna work? Lizard, lizard, lizard. It's in my brain. Then Toy Story 5, then in another original called Gato in 2027, then Incredibles 3, then Coco 2. And Adrian Molina, who is one of the co directors of this movie, left this movie in the middle of it to go work on Coco 2, which you have to imagine is extremely important. Coco 2, I think is probably the last mega sensation that Pixar original mega sensation that Pixar has had is Coco. Now, they did have Encanto, which became hugely popular, but was during COVID Right.

[Zach Lowe]

And was the Bruno.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

So some of that was the virality of.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. And you wrote that song.

[Zach Lowe]

I did and performed it. But my performance is only on, like the soundtrack, not in the actual movie, you know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, I see.

[Zach Lowe]

So I wasn't eligible for an Oscar.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

That's tough.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. You and Diane Warren did it together. That was very special.

[Zach Lowe]

I actually don't know if that's true. I don't know if you. If you. If, like, the performance soundtrack, version for the movie is eligible for an Oscar or not. You know, if it's different than what's in the film.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know the answer to that. I think it will be tested probably for Sinners, because Jamie Lawson sings a version of a song that Brittany Howard wrote in Sinners, and then both of them are on the soundtrack. Which one do you want to hear Brittany Howard sing at the Oscars? Do you want to hear Jamie Lawson sing? Should they sing together?

[Zach Lowe]

They should sing too. Well, no one should sing. But anyway, that's a total conversation.

[Sean Fennessy]

Non sequel. Since Moana in 2016 from Disney wish, Strange World and Kanto Raya and the Last Dragon. Those four movies have made $255 million domestic box office combined. That's not a lot. Yeah, that's a low number. Bigger conversation.

[Zach Lowe]

If anyone wants to write me a check for 255 million, I say yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. That's very brave of you. Unexploited IP is really the new benchmark Minecraft Super Mario Brothers Barbie. This is what people want. So what does Universal do? They go out and make a live action how to Train youn Dragon. And you know what? People wanted that too. Yeah, I didn't really want it. I thought it was not exactly what I want from the movies. I'll tell you why.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've already seen how to Train youn Dragon.

[Zach Lowe]

Mm.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's pretty good.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a nice movie. I also recently watched the original 2010 animated version with my daughter.

[Zach Lowe]

She liked it.

[Sean Fennessy]

She liked it. She wanted more of the female heroine, per this conversation. We were just having Astrid.

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

I would say Astrid gets us. I felt a slightly stronger role. She's played by Nico Parker in the new film, and she gets to be more of a leader, more of a hero than I thought she was in the animated version.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot of time spent with Hiccup, the star of the movie, who's played by Mason Thames in this movie. We saw this all the way back at Cinemacon.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And I have never seen the original animated version. So I was just kind of like, what's going on here? It was also at 9am it was in Las Vegas.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was after a long. You were up till 6am Doing ketamine, two hours of sleep, woke up, went right to how to train your dragon.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. And then they trained some dragons. But, you know, also Gerard Butler did some pillaging.

[Sean Fennessy]

He did. Gerard Butler was the voice of the father character in the original animated film, and he reprises the role here in this movie. I think he's probably the best part of this movie, to be honest with you.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he was good.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's very engaging. I was like, that's a. Hey, that's a star.

[Zach Lowe]

I thought the dragons looked okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Pretty good. Yeah, pretty good. The visual effects, I think, are strong. The movie is directed by Dean DeBlois, who was one of the co directors of. Of the original film with Chris Sanders. And I think they have converted the film fairly well. They've created a whole kind of Viking world. The problem is it's almost exactly the same movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's the same, more or less the same script. A couple of modulations here and there. And it's 35 minutes longer than the original.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is the same thing that happens in the Disney live action movies. Make it make sense. Why is that the case?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I mean, I haven't seen the original. There was a lot, as I said, of pillaging and a lot of like, Viking. And it felt like they were going for some sort of, hey, you liked Game of Thrones. You know, like, also, like, you brought.

[Sean Fennessy]

Your kids to see the Northman.

[Zach Lowe]

Right. And you and I turned to each other and we said, this is probably like a little too scary for our children. I did not bring my child, you know, in a way that I think if it's animated, there is something, you know, fantastical about it versus watching people, like, galloping through at night. And it's like a little scary. So I. I didn't take. But maybe that adds some time. I don't know. You got to let all the horses run through or whatever. There's horses, right? Or were there. I don't remember.

[Sean Fennessy]

It wasn't how to train your horse, that's for sure.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, no, but they were right. Were they riding horses in the battle scenes?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't recall.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was 9:00am yeah, that's true. The. The thing that is odd about this is that this playbook we thought was totally dead. And then Mufasa very quietly made like $700 million. And then Lilo and Stitch came along and was totally blah and made another $700 million. Now this movie's come along and I think it's already at $365 million. And I understand why studios do this for money.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it is bottom of the barrel creativity.

[Zach Lowe]

In my opinion, it is creatively empty. But can I give you a personal anecdote that speaks to the financial power of this?

[Sean Fennessy]

Certainly.

[Zach Lowe]

So the marketing for this one has been all over the place. In a good way. They've been out there, including in a crossover commercial with Bryce Harper for I don't even know what else they're selling. But it was played during Phillies games.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's like a health influencer now. He's eating all kinds of powders and things.

[Zach Lowe]

I've noticed that everyone's eating powders.

[Sean Fennessy]

Raw milk. That's something he does.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. That's bad. We don't. Because that's RFK coded and we're against that. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

We gotta speak to Bryce about that and your beloved Philadelphia Phillies.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I don't wanna know how Bryce Harper is voted in the last something anyway. He was in this commercial. And so was the dragon Toothless. And my three year old son looked up and he noticed it like the first time it just played. And then the second time he was like, who's that dragon? And then the third time we saw ended and he like whispered, I want to see the dragon again. And so now, courtesy of Universal, we have like the full set of the dragon toys in our home.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

And he loves the toys now. He doesn't understand that they're connected to the movie. And he hasn't even asked to see the movie, but we've got all the toys. And at some point he's gonna be like, can I see that dragon again? And we will probably just go straight to the animated, you know, but it is reviving, you know, it's more money. So they did their job. And he really likes the dragon.

[Sean Fennessy]

Does he have an awareness of dinosaurs?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he's like pretty. He knows about them. Today we found. Today we found in his school bag a dinosaur T shirt that is not his, you know that like got it, got sent home, got mixed up. That's fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

Interesting. He stole a dinosaur T shirt, but he clocked it.

[Zach Lowe]

And he said, that's a Tyrannosaurus. And I was like, I didn't even know that you knew that. So he does know about dinosaurs.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is a turning point.

[Zach Lowe]

But we're going to New York in the summer and I told him that we could go to the Natural History Museum and see all the dinosaurs. And I think he's like, that's scary. I don't want to see them. I don't want to be scared.

[Sean Fennessy]

You can just take him to the Natural History Museum in la.

[Zach Lowe]

We have done that. And I think that that was scary for him. So. And then I was like, there's a big whale. And he's like, I don't know about that. This is the reason that we did not go to see how to Train youn Dragon. I wouldn't say that Knox is like confronting his fears again. Maybe I should have seen it, taken him to see Elio. Maybe I'm just creating a warmer story, a bubble. But he knows about dinosaurs. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But no participation trophies for not seeing the dragon movie.

[Zach Lowe]

But he really, really likes these dragons, so. And I guess he likes dinosaurs.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think Toothless in particular looks really good in the live action one. Yeah. Because the design of that character in the animated movie is very. It doesn't look scientifically like you might imagine a dragon looks. It looks like a kid's character, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. He's like, very friendly. And that's why. What's the other one called? Monstrous Something.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't recall.

[Zach Lowe]

That's for Sy.

[Sean Fennessy]

I see.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I understand. Because we had to separate them. So Psy got the more colorful one, and then Nox got all of the toothless.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow. We're into like, dragon toys era for me. This is very fun.

[Zach Lowe]

Here I am.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is going to be exciting. I think I really want to know what he thinks of the animated movie. Whether he clings to it or not.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he still doesn't know what to do with animated movies. So that's another thing. Like, I think Zach tried Moana with him. Moana? Moana. I'm sorry. Moana. We don't watch it.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's disrespectful to their culture.

[Zach Lowe]

Zack tried it when the people of Mota Nui. I know. When they were doing. When he was doing the Dwayne Johnson piece that he did. And so they watched it and Knox was like, what is this? And, like, wandered on.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, he loves Robin Hood, though. You need to show him characters like that.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, that's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

He does male hero characters in animated films.

[Zach Lowe]

But he really likes sir his, so that's great. He's like my friend Sir Hiss.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's like. He gives the Dion Waiters performance in that movie.

[Zach Lowe]

Sir his.

[Sean Fennessy]

The snake. So that's all good. That's just a sign of taste. Anything else you want to. You need to share about how to train your dragon or otherwise?

[Zach Lowe]

Is there a kids movie this summer that I do want to take Knocks to?

[Sean Fennessy]

What about coming Eddington? Yeah, we'll check in. Check in on that. See how that looks. I don't. I mean, Happy Gilmore 2. That's on the. Oh, Will Smurfs.

[Zach Lowe]

They just added Lawrence of Arabia in 70 millimeter.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I didn't get to go last time. Hold on. I gotta buy tickets right now.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. We're recording the podcast, so why don't.

[Zach Lowe]

You worry about checking event status. Okay. It's still going. Last time I missed it. Oh, this is a. This is a Saturday at 2pm though. That's pretty tough for me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Should I take Knox to Gabby's Dollhouse? The movie? I will if I need to. I will. You also, Kristen Wiig. That's not your flavor, you know.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you take him. That's fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alice is like, what is that?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I bet she is. And then. And then you're going to have a lot of dollhouses in your house.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know what she got into. Did we talk about. I told you this yesterday. She Ra. So we rented an old she Ra movie from Video Tech over the weekend. And then I just learned that there are five seasons of a she Ra Princess of Power TV show on Netflix. And I'm like, I have to do whatever I can to avoid Alice discovering this, because this will be the only thing I watch for the next 10 years. Okay. I don't think there's any other kids movies until there's a big one coming in the. Well, Wicked two, obviously. And then Zootopia two really big ones.

[Zach Lowe]

Do you see the Celine song, Zootopia thing?

[Sean Fennessy]

I did, yeah. What is the one movie you.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. But then she clarified, and she was like, honestly, I just wasn't very prepared for that.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like that. That's where her mind went.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, she said she was like. And it was a great answer. She was like, it's no one's fault. Everyone told me what it would be, but I wasn't prepared. And then I heard Desert island is like, what movie would you want to watch over and over again? So she's like, children of Men is my favorite movie. But I don't know if I were stuck on a desert island, if that's the one I want to be watching over and over again. So I went with Zootopia, which I love. I thought, great job. Just great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Have you seen Zootopia? You haven't. We went over this.

[Zach Lowe]

No. But I did get a really great. Remember the. And you told me what happened in it. But then I got an Instagram message that was like, zootopia is actually about how the Reagan administration introduced crack into black communities in the 80s.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yep. Thanks. Thanks to CR for sending me that DM.

[Zach Lowe]

I thought that was a. So now I'm gonna see Zootopia and I guess Zootopia, too.

[Sean Fennessy]

So it's incredibly exciting. Well, that's 800 last episode. We're done here. We did it. You feel good? You feel good about what we accomplished?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I feel great. What's next?

[Sean Fennessy]

What's 801? 801 is number 17 on our 25 for 25 list.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

The only clue I will give is it's a funny one.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I hope people enjoy that conversation. That'll be coming on Wednesday. Thanks to everyone who's been listening along. Thank you for sending in your questions. Thank you for Jack and Sam for compiling those questions. Thanks to Jack for being the producer of this episode and using his voice on this episode. We'll see you on Wednesday.