The 1990s Horror Movie Canon and ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer.’ Plus: The ‘KPop Demon Hunters’ Revolution.

Summary

The Big Picture Podcast Summary

Episode Title: The 1990s Horror Movie Canon and ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer.’ Plus: The ‘KPop Demon Hunters’ Revolution
Release Date: July 30, 2025
Hosts: Sean Fennessey & Amanda Dobbins
Guest: Andy Greenwald

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1. Box Office Performance and the Superhero Genre

Sean and Amanda kick off the episode by discussing the recent release of the "Fantastic Four" movie. They express their disappointment with its quality despite its respectable box office numbers.

Sean Fennessey [01:28]: "The movie made $118 million on 4,125 screens here in North America. It made $100 million internationally, roughly the same as Superman."

Amanda adds that while superhero movies still hold significance in the industry, their dominance is waning.

Amanda Dobbin [02:14]: "Right. But it's not the most important part of the business."

They delve into the shifting landscape of superhero films, noting declining interest in key markets like China and Europe. This trend suggests a plateau in the genre's financial growth.

Sean Fennessey [02:49]: "China could care less about superhero movies now. They just don't go."

The hosts contemplate what genres or movie types might fill the void left by the diminishing superhero craze, hinting at a rise in demon hunter narratives and other supernatural themes.

Amanda Dobbin [03:05]: "We're not going to get another Avengers Endgame that any business school case study could have told you that."

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2. "KPop Demon Hunters" – Netflix's Animated Sensation

Bringing in Andy Greenwald from The Watch, the trio transitions to discussing Netflix's animated release, "KPop Demon Hunters." They highlight its unexpected success and broad viewership.

Sean Fennessey [07:39]: "KPop Demon Hunters is one of the biggest movies of the summer. It's probably been seen by more people than any of the summer blockbusters that we've covered on the show."

Andy points out the movie's unique performance metrics, noting significant week-over-week growth in viewership—a first for Netflix.

Andy Greenwald [07:56]: "This was the first ever Netflix movie to week over week grow."

Sean and Amanda share their personal experiences watching the film with their children, emphasizing its appeal to younger audiences through its vibrant animation and catchy K-pop soundtrack. They commend the movie's ability to blend cultural elements with supernatural themes seamlessly.

Sean Fennessey [08:20]: "This movie to me was real AI generated slop... And yet I found this movie to be very enjoyable."

Amanda appreciates how the film introduces non-experts to K-pop culture, making it accessible while maintaining authenticity.

Amanda Dobbin [26:28]: "It does a good job. I think of both feeling very specific to that world while also throwing those of us who don't know anything a bone here and there."

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3. "I Know What You Did Last Summer" (2025) – A Critical Legacy Sequel

The conversation shifts to the 2025 sequel of the iconic "I Know What You Did Last Summer." Sean provides an overview of the film, stressing its status as a legacy sequel aiming to revive 90s teen slasher vibes.

Sean Fennessey [39:05]: "This movie is a legacyquel reboot of, I would argue, the second most significant teen slasher in the 1990s."

Amanda vehemently criticizes the sequel for its disrespect towards both the original audience and contemporary viewers. She highlights its poor storytelling, underdeveloped characters, and ineffective use of beloved actors from the original film.

Amanda Dobbin [44:15]: "I thought this was disrespectful to its audience. I was angry. I thought this was disrespectful to the 90s and to those of us who remember the 90s and also to the young people of today who deserve better in their storytelling."

Sean echoes these sentiments, pointing out numerous plot holes and the misguided attempt to make characters overly relatable, which undermines the slasher genre's core premise of inevitable peril.

Sean Fennessey [50:02]: "This movie wants us to love its characters and not get excited to watch these people get killed. That's the whole point of the movie."

The hosts dissect specific shortcomings, such as the protagonists' incompetence in handling a vehicular accident and the convoluted dream sequences featuring original cast members like Sarah Michelle Gellar.

Amanda Dobbin [58:26]: "It's such a big mistake. So the kids are too likable, and most of them don't die. And the ways in which they do is, as you said, not very dramatic or very scary."

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4. The 1990s Horror Movie Canon

Sean and Amanda reflect on defining horror films from the 90s, debating what qualifies as canonical within the genre. They discuss influential films like "Scream," "The Blair Witch Project," and others that shaped the decade's horror landscape.

Sean Fennessey [75:00]: "Scream was totemic, an amazing... defining horror movies."

They acknowledge the evolution of horror during the 90s, noting a blend of classic monster films and innovative storytelling that introduced new subgenres and reinvigorated interest in horror.

Amanda reminisces about the cast and cultural impact of films like "Scream" and "The Blair Witch Project," emphasizing their lasting influence on both the genre and pop culture.

Amanda Dobbin [75:29]: "It's number one on this list, I would say."

Sean concurs, highlighting "Scream" as a film that not only entertained but also educated audiences on film mechanics and genre tropes through its meta-commentary.

Sean Fennessey [75:30]: "It's a movie that actually still holds up... taught a lot of people, myself included, how to watch movies."

They debate the inclusion of psychological thrillers and found footage films within the horror canon, ultimately deciding to focus on traditional slasher and supernatural films for their list.

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5. Additional Highlights and Future Discussions

Towards the episode's end, the hosts briefly touch upon other notable horror films from the 90s and recent years, such as "Event Horizon," "Funny Games," and "Candyman." They also tease future podcast topics, including summer comedies and potential canon-building exercises.

Sean Fennessey [89:12]: "My top 10 is as Scream, Wes Craven's New Nightmare, The Blair Witch Project, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Ring, In the Mouth of Madness, Candyman, Event Horizon, The Exorcist 3, and Funny Games, the German version."

They express enthusiasm for upcoming projects and potential guest appearances, ensuring listeners remain engaged with future episodes.

Sean Fennessey [89:22]: "Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Later this week, we're breaking down a pair of summer comedies..."

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Notable Quotes

• Sean Fennessey [02:14]: "But it's not the most important part of the business."
• Andy Greenwald [07:56]: "This was the first ever Netflix movie to week over week grow."
• Amanda Dobbin [44:15]: "I thought this was disrespectful to its audience."
• Sean Fennessey [50:02]: "This movie wants us to love its characters and not get excited to watch these people get killed."
• Sean Fennessey [75:00]: "Scream was totemic, an amazing... defining horror movies."

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This episode of The Big Picture offers a deep dive into the 1990s horror landscape, critiques contemporary legacy sequels, and explores emerging trends in animation and genre blending. Hosts Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins, alongside guest Andy Greenwald, provide insightful analyses that both honor classic horror while critically evaluating its modern iterations.

Transcript

[Sean Fennesy]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by Starbucks. We are big Starbucks Frappuccino fans over here. So when we heard about the new Strato Frappuccino blended beverage, we had to try it. It's a crave worthy iced blended beverage topped with cold foam, making for delicious layers of flavor.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I love how Starbucks leans into the seasons, especially summer. From vibrant refreshers to cold blended beverages, there's always something exciting to sip on.

[Sean Fennesy]

Available now for a limited time only. Your Strato Frappuccino blended beverage is ready, Starbucks. I'm Sean Fennesy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm Amanda Dobbin.

[Andy Greenwald]

And this is the Big Picture 8.

[Sean Fennesy]

Conversation show about demon hunters and teens in peril. Today on the show, we break down two new releases. The Netflix animated sensation and one of the year's big surprises, K Pop Demon Hunters with our pal Andy Greenwald from the Watch. That'll be fun. And then we'll dig into I Know what yout Did Last Summer. The same named sequel to the 1997 horror hit. After that, I'll present to you my 90s horror movie canon. I have some notes, you have some. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I can participate at least halfway. I was there in the 90s.

[Sean Fennesy]

I look forward to that. 10 films I'll choose from an entire decade, a very strange decade in horror. Let's start this conversation with some quick catch up on the Fantastic Four and its box office performance. We didn't like the movie very much. We talked about it last week. Listeners completely agreed. They said another great episode. Put it in the books.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I heard from a friend and an academy member.

[Sean Fennesy]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Who agreed. So there we go.

[Sean Fennesy]

Amazing. Pedro Pascal called you. Unbelievable how connected you are. The movie did pretty good at the box office. It's more or less the same report that we had with Superman. This movie made $118 million on 4,125 screens here in North America. It made $100 million internationally, roughly the same as Superman. After the opening weekend, Superman dipped, I guess about 54% in its second weekend. We'll see what Fantastic Four's hold is. We've been talking about the life cycle of superhero movies a lot in the last couple of years on the show. It seems like things are kind of settling, you know, where this is still a big important part of the business.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. But it's not.

[Sean Fennesy]

Not the most important part of the business.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And this movie is probably going to end up in that like between 600 and $700 million range. Just like Superman. I mentioned after Superman, we don't get $880 million superhero movies, let alone billion dollar superhero movies. One of the reasons for that. China could care less about superhero movies now. They just don't go. Europe is increasingly less interested. The MCU has been flagging. The DCU is starting something new. So I am curious, aside from your Lilo and Stitches, kind of like, what moves into the position of these kinds of movies?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I, I mean, I think if we've learned that it's. It. There are more. Smaller and not small, but the, the, the literal wealth just gets sprinkled out a little bit more. Not in any real Marxist way, but at least amongst the corporations.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And you know, we've just. We're not going to get another Avengers endgame that any, like business school case study could have told you that. But they're trying anyway. And what's amusing now is that we have them trying to reheat Endgame on the calendar for the end of next year and it just ain't gonna happen in the same way.

[Sean Fennesy]

No, it'll make, it'll make a lot of money.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's not going to. You know, that was a. A magical once in a lifetime thing that they did. Congratulations to them. Congratulations to everyone who was a part of it. You can't reheat a souffle.

[Sean Fennesy]

So it's interesting for this show too, because aside from Supergirl, which is a big movie but more like smaller stakes than these last two that we talked about, and Clayface.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Why is that? Oh, clearly because she's a woman and.

[Sean Fennesy]

We live in the patriarchy. No, I think it's not Superman. You know, it's not a character as well known as Superman. And I think it's going to be an ostensible, sort of semi related sequel. But that movie and Clayface, which I anticipate, but I think is also a more modest movie. Aside from those two movies, no superhero movies for a year.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Which is kind of cool, I guess.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So.

[Sean Fennesy]

Not bad. I mean, I'd love for these movies to be a little bit better than they have been, but instead we're just.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Going to have Demon Hunter TV shows.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, we'll get to that very shortly. I don't really have any other takeaways on the box office here. It does seem like everything is kind of settled. The event movies get to 700, everything else gets to 4 to 500.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right?

[Sean Fennesy]

That's it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, well, let's bring in Andy Greenwald. Andy Greenwald is here. When's the last time you're on the show?

[Andy Greenwald]

Miyazaki I only come on to talk about kids cartoons. That's true. That's the level of respect you have for my film opinions.

[Sean Fennesy]

Only because your podcast partner will not allow you to speak of these things on your show.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's true. And I feel very CR coded right now because I just came off of the 90 minutes of the watch, at which point I usually then go home to a nice lunch and Chris comes and does like an hour or two.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Of drafting with you guys and here you are.

[Andy Greenwald]

So here I am in the middle seat.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And now we're going to litigate your opinions of Porco Rosso.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm gonna litigate your opinions on Fantastic Four, which were obscene, frankly.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Wow.

[Sean Fennesy]

So we've heard. So we've heard. Shocking. You disagree?

[Andy Greenwald]

I loved it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

I completely loved it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm happy for.

[Sean Fennesy]

The Marvel virus has made its way into this podcast somehow.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I'll let it be.

[Sean Fennesy]

I'll let it be.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because I do feel you had a.

[Sean Fennesy]

Rejoinder on your podcast.

[Andy Greenwald]

I did. I had a strong rejoinder. I think I do often feel like our podcasts are in dialogue with another.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes. Even though we rarely see each other anymore.

[Andy Greenwald]

Rarely see each other.

[Sean Fennesy]

We see each other literally passing in the hallways.

[Andy Greenwald]

Also, there is an incredible alpha energy from your podcast. First of all, because just the way you have me sitting where I cannot get comfortable and I feel the glare of both of you.

[Sean Fennesy]

That's part of the strategy.

[Andy Greenwald]

It works. The other reason being last week, I believe I reached out to both of you to appear on the watch because I love you both and love your opinions.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

It didn't work out. And somehow the result of this humble request is that I'm here on your podcast. That is true.

[Sean Fennesy]

And that is extremely random because it's not often that you're on this show. And 99 out of 100 times, I would be happy to appear on the watch.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

But that was a day that was just not going to work. You know why you had to go see the Fantastic Four.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, you were lucky then.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And then you volunteered because you really wanted to talk about it. I was kind of like, no, really, guys, do you want to talk about it? And then we said yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. And I was so eager to have you on the podcast, Amanda. We just reran an episode.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I know, but it was fun.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just cause we wanted you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Lena's back. You know Lena's back.

[Sean Fennesy]

This episode is brought to you by Netflix says Happy Giltmore 2 we're back. 30 years ago, he decided to give golf a try. Now he's ready for the happiest comeback of all time. Adam Sandler's beloved golf legend returns to the green for another swing at glory. Just remember, it's all in the hips. Also starring Ben Stiller. I like him. Julie Bowen, like her. And Benito. Antonio Martinez Ocasio. Happy Gilmore 2. Now streaming only on Netflix. So you did ask and I was planning to do this. And I don't even know if I had made you aware of the fact that I was planning to do this on the show regardless. But I'm so glad that you raised your hand on it, because this movie, I think you could make the case. K Pop Demon Hunters is one of the biggest movies of the summer. It's probably been seen by more people than any of the summer blockbusters that we've covered on the show. Just given Netflix's audience.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right. The viewership data and stuff is famously opaque. But the stat that was getting thrown around last week was that this was the first ever Netflix movie to week over week grow. So that the fifth week viewing minutes was exponentially larger than the fourth, third, second, and first.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So. So.

[Andy Greenwald]

And only 10% of that was coming from my house.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Well, I'm wondering how much of it is gonna be coming from mine now that I've seen it with a four year old girl.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

So K Pop Demon Hunters is directed by Maggie Kang and Chris Applehans. It's written by Dana Jimenez, Hannah McMennon, Maggie Kang and Chris Applehans. This is a movie about a.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's right there in the title group.

[Sean Fennesy]

Who are Demon Hunters.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, I don't want to tell you guys how to do your jobs or filmmakers, but like Eddington, what's that about? You know what I mean?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Angry Woke Sheriff would be a better name for that movie, I assume.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's a very good point.

[Andy Greenwald]

Put the name. Put what the movie is in the title.

[Sean Fennesy]

This is what I think made me a little bit nervous about this movie is that this is real AI generated slop. Slop idea of just like, please say all adjectives and nouns that are correlated to subject matter as opposed to something with the spirit of creativity. And yet I found this movie to be very enjoyable.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's very enjoyable.

[Sean Fennesy]

So I know that you're gonna love it. This is a complicated one for you. There are demons and there are hunters and it's animated.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It was a rocky first four minutes, I will say.

[Sean Fennesy]

Do you wanna recite the text message you sent me, Stopwatch? Well, I received a note very early on.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So here's the thing.

[Sean Fennesy]

He picked the picture for Friday.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I would love to start was Friday night the night before Sean's birthday.

[Sean Fennesy]

Happy birthday.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Happy birthday to Sean.

[Sean Fennesy]

You sent me a note. That was very kind, thank you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Our children are asleep and my husband took Sean out for a birthday drink, which is a lovely thing to do. So, mom, home alone Friday night, crack.

[Andy Greenwald]

A wine cooler, hit the K Pop Demon Hunters.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And the first four minutes are of just a frantic origin story about all of the. All of, like the demon history of.

[Andy Greenwald]

The world and the pop history.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure. But it's. It's way more demon coded in their moon. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

A lot of magical force field.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I would say. Of all of the things in the title that are bringing this to me, to this movie being K Pop demons and hunters, my ranking would be 1k pop, 2 hunters, 3 demons.

[Andy Greenwald]

Hmm.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I was. I sent you a text that said, I'm four minutes into K Pop Demon Hunters. What the fuck is this? But then I kept watching.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good for you. You're good.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I watched the whole film and I. And I was quite charmed by it. There were things that I like, really liked some things that were just clearly not meant for me. Like a 40 year old mom at home on a Friday night with her wine cooler and her load of laundry, which I did fold. I am the hero of the family. I folded all the laundry. But. But I get it a little. I get it and it is charming.

[Sean Fennesy]

So you have young girls in the house.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

And I think this movie is very clearly pitched directly at them. Yes. So did you watch it with them first?

[Andy Greenwald]

No. So one of the things that, you know, my kids are a little older than your kids, but one of the things that does come into play later in parenting is the opportunity of the. Hey, here you go. And you rolled across the room and you buy yourself some time. And I saw this. I was just referencing this on the Watch podcast, but my children changed the avatar names on my Netflix account. So I get emails that say, daddy, we just added a movie you might like.

[Sean Fennesy]

Which is so Laura. Really perverse.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I was aware of this movie from the title and I was like, tick, tick all the boxes. Like, you guys should watch this. They loved it. Then I tried that trick again. We were at a fourth of July party that they did not want to attend and they threw it on there with other kids that were there. They loved it. And I was like, this is an incredible magic trick that will never run out of juice. The downside of my plan Was they liked it so much, they wanted to share it with me and they wanted to listen to the songs and they were getting really into it and I was being super supportive of that always as I am. And then my older daughter went to sleepaway camp. My younger daughter was like, please watch this with me. And I was like, yes, awesome. I know, it's very sweet. I need to appreciate these moments. I did not think that this would be one of the children's entertainments that I really, really legitimately liked. So much so that when the movie ended, I did ask her, can you tell when I really like something? And she said yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

What does that mean? Like, what are you indicating to her when you are connecting with something with her?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, I think I am actually present.

[Sean Fennesy]

Phone doesn't come out.

[Andy Greenwald]

No phone, no thinking about all the things I could have with my evening or my life. We can call that the Elio experience, you know. Yeah, this was not. This was not tough.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Took a quick nap here on that one.

[Andy Greenwald]

And that can be a relief. In the theater, it's air conditioning. But I am so K Pop Demon hunters turned out like, I have now added golden to my best songs of the year ongoing playlist. Like, I am super locked in. I thought that this movie was so much lighter, brighter, more charming than it needed to be. I thought it was serving a type of entertainment that really resonated with my daughters, but also just resonated with itself. It had a point of view, it had a cultural point of view, it had a musical point of view. They just, they did the songs as they should have been done. You guys know that in any fictional music story, making the songs legitimately sound like that they could be number ones is almost impossible.

[Sean Fennesy]

They did it not once or twice, but like five times. I mean, there are five legitimate K pop sounding mega hits on this soundtrack.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which are now dominating Staggering Spotify's playlists. And like, when you have a song like Soda Pop in it, the premise is written, you know, maybe yada yada in the script is demons must come up with a song so diabolically catchy that people willingly give up their eternal souls. And someone met the moment. Yeah, you know, and came up with that song.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's a banger.

[Andy Greenwald]

It felt. And I want to hear what you guys think about this very much. Like there's a lot of drek and there's a lot of okay. And it's been depressing that like former, you know, reliable sources of more than okay, like Pixar have now just sort of devolved into this samey. Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Ness.

[Andy Greenwald]

So to have something that just literally.

[Sean Fennesy]

Popped the Fantastic Four you liked, you said loved it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, Joy, I think the same daughter that liked this didn't like it as much as I did, but interesting.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. I think that this is, this is a much better movie than what I'm going to cite, but it feels very in concert with the Minecraft movie, which is a kind of collision of tones and styles and reference points, all in a stew with an energy that young kids are relating to because they have experienced culture in a slightly different way than we did. It is faster. It is, it is less homogenized, it is more international, it is more antic and I think they're more open minded about the weirdness. It does remind me a little bit of Jim Henson taking hard left turns in the 80s and 90s where he'd be like, yeah, like how far can I take my interest in puppetry and how far will kids come with me?

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you relate to that?

[Sean Fennesy]

But this movie, is that going 100 miles an hour? It also has like a very interesting metatextual, almost like mockumentary style where there's like a lot of characters who are going into camera and they're explaining the lore via social media or normal media and there's just a lot of information coming at you in a very rapid fire way that is happening alongside of classic things like girl falls in love with demon and what will that mean for her eternal soul? You know, I think that you're very.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right to point out that there is a cultural fluency among younger people of like manga, for example. And so this movie, the characters, you know, the style is like, it's called Chibi, right? When the faces become little baby faces and tears or popcorn and it becomes, it's highly stylized. My kids read manga comics and watch anime. Like they get that that is not a bridge that's too difficult to cross for entry in it. I think the Minecraft thing is interesting because I agree with you that it has the kind of like the manic energy of the games that my kids now also play. Minecraft movie thanks for having me on.

[Sean Fennesy]

To talk about it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was dreading the real world parts of it I thought were inspired and I loved like I was. I was laughing more than anyone in the theater. In the early parts.

[Sean Fennesy]

It gets, it gets a lot of. It gets away with a lot because of its cast.

[Andy Greenwald]

But then once they went into the world then it becomes like all entertainments of like we have to save the thing and do the Thing. And we survived this somehow, and then we move on. I thought this movie stayed a little bit more. I mean, it's a lighter subject matter, but it stayed. It stayed more true to its particular rhythm.

[Sean Fennesy]

I had an interesting experience watching it with my four year old.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

So the previous day when we watched this, which was my birthday, the thing that we did in the morning was she and I went to the Egyptian theater to go to a free screening sponsored by Mattel of Barry Lyndon. No, they did not sponsor Barry Lyndon. We went to go see two 1983 episodes of He man and two 1983 episodes of she Ra. And the reason for that is because she Ra is her favorite thing in the world right now. There is a Netflix series. My kids love it, which is excellent. She Ra, the princess of power.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Did she wear her dress?

[Sean Fennesy]

She didn't, but she brought her action figure. And her two favorite things are princesses and warriors. And if you put these two things together, this is an incredibly powerful stew. And this is like an elevation of that. This is pop stars who are warriors.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can I ask you, did she like the cartoon? Because I tried to show my kids loved a she Ra Netflix show. And I was like, you know what? This was when I was a kid? And they were like, just in.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think she was.

[Andy Greenwald]

They were dying with laughter.

[Sean Fennesy]

How weird and dumb it was. So the origin of her liking she Ra, I think I told you this once on the show before, but we were in video tech in Highland park, and she's just looking at the kids section and just pulling stuff off the shelves and looking at it. And she just pulled off the 80s she ra. And she was just like, what is this? Who is this person who is my icon? And we watched that. So she had already seen the 80s version. She was comfortable with it. But there's just like a certain kind of story. You know, a strong woman with a blade is of interest to her right now. And that's interesting. Wait till she gets the Basic Instinct. And so this was right up her alley. And plus, the music, I don't think that we have necessarily grounded her in pop music. A lot of the music that we play is either you're in ballet class or musicals, like Disney musicals or maybe like the beatles or like 60s pop music.

[Andy Greenwald]

Amanda's kid's listening to Bjork. I saw that over the weekend.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He's listening to Bjork. He's listening to a lot of abba. I didn't play him this music. He's just a little bit younger than Alice and also, the boys don't mature quite as quickly emotionally.

[Andy Greenwald]

You can tell right now on this podcast.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So I did think that he would be a little freaked out by this. And he was also asleep. But I think he might like the music. Like, sometimes it gets too poppy. Like Beyonce. Cowboy Carter is a. Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Rihanna. SOS was a recent heartbreaking. No.

[Sean Fennesy]

Interesting. Well, because Cowboy Carter is rooted in Americana, in our spirit and country and.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Western film, and as a terrible mother, I've tried to play him brat many times, and he literally. He recognizes the songs and knows to say no brat. So I don't know whether this would be a little too. This is another thing. It is really fast pace, and so he is smaller. So I was wondering whether it might overwhelm him. I think there's kind of like a magic age that he hasn't quite reached.

[Andy Greenwald]

My kids are the magic age because it's like, they love the music, they love the humor, they love the premise. But there's also a little bit like, oh, Jinu is beautiful. Like, he's a beautiful boy, maybe worth using your immortal soul for. But then also the core friend. I mean, we haven't gotten specifically into it, but like, the core group of Huntricks. Right. Which is. Why don't you say it with me, Amanda? Because we know their names so well. There's Rumi, there's Mira, and there's, of course, hailing from Burbank. Zoe.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm more of a Mira, I think, 100%.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm more of Zoe and Rumi.

[Sean Fennesy]

Obviously, we did not get to say Hank. Identify. We get it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm the kind of funny racket one that. That core group, like, they just light up in the scenes in the movie that are very intentional and thoughtful of. Can we have a break from touring? Let's. Oh, we'll put on our couch.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Couch, couch, couch. Very funny stuff. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And, like, let's relax, let's rest, let's be friends. Because the other thing that I think is essential to their fandom and maybe the fandom of all young people, or maybe specifically young girls, is it's not just I love the music. It's not just I love the imagery or the concerts. I believe deeply in a. Before you learn the word parasocial way that these are good people.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Who are actually friends. Like, my older daughter believes Taylor Swift to be one of the greatest humans who's ever lived due to her generosity and her benevolence. I know. And that she's legitimately friends with Sabrina. I think that they're cut into each other.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I need to explore that with you. This is giving away what we will soon talk about. And I know what you did last summer, but that, to me, is one of the key flaws of that movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which movie?

[Sean Fennesy]

K Pop. I know what you did last summer, which is that it wants us to be really rooting for the characters and love them and believe in their friendship. And it's a slasher movie. And I'm wondering if there's just something slightly generational that has transpired where, like, we need a kind of unity amongst our protagonists to get interested in their stories if we're a little younger. Whereas I'm like, you know, where's the man in 1952? You know, it's just fucking Shane. It's Shane.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or where's the Mira solo album?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which one is gonna actually pop off? Cause frankly, the other side of Boys don't have it.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's an interesting question. We can explore it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Can I ask an extension of that, which is, in addition to the movie, has the concept of the fan, and we have to do this for the fans. And this is something that they keep repeating, which I thought was notable. Smart and really like, did your daughters get that? Did that make sense to them?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, I think that. I mean, the movie ends with them stepping down from the golden dais of celebrity to interact and be kind to people. And I think that that perpetuates one of the deepest, deepest planks of the illusion of modern fandom, which is that we would be friends or they would choose to be my friend.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or they know me. They see me. They're doing it for me.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But the movie is, like, is really, really pushing that as well as part of the character development of the.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's so profoundly different, though, than the way that we experience popular culture.

[Andy Greenwald]

Culture, totally. Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's crazy. Whether we were deifying or the sense that no one cares about me, but they're like, no one cares about me. That the artist experiences is also how I feel. And so we can relate to their alienation. That's kind of. That's not in the sauce at all in pop music right now, in art, in tv.

[Andy Greenwald]

But the roomie arc. So the character, right, is the greatest pop singer of her era. And she's about to not only top the charts for the unprecedented whatever year, but she's also gonna seal the. What's the word again in Korean, The Honmoon thank you. To seal demons out forever. But twist, she's half Demon. And I do wish the movie had delved a little bit more into the union that produced her. Maybe there's a prequel of some sort to how that works.

[Sean Fennesy]

When we were watching it, I watched it with Eileen as well. And she was like, so how did she. What's going on here with this? I was like, I assume a woman fucked a demon. You gotta assume. Right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So for a while I thought it was gonna be Selene. And then. So the Celine character was underdeveloped. I felt she was gonna be a note that I have.

[Andy Greenwald]

I agree with that. Celine is her aunt or like her foster demon hunter.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right, Exactly. But then turns on her because she's like, she doesn't actually believe in her the way that her friends do or something. I don't know.

[Andy Greenwald]

And maybe demons aren't so bad.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But then actually they are. Right? So she is half demon. So she is the problem. And she can't. She's hiding this from everyone. But the narrative of the songs is also deeply character based. Right. And is this sign of like contemporary pop triumphalism that, like, everybody doubted me, but I'm gonna be golden. I'm gonna show my haters I'm not actually a demon. I'm the greatest.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

But it is. It is translated through this Korean lens. Right. That I think I'm not a K pop expert and don't even want to pretend to be. But like, the release schedule and the performative politics and almost athletics of being a pop star felt accurate from my just sort of adjacent awareness of it. And that felt accurate. Right. I mean, I think as close as.

[Sean Fennesy]

You can get in a kind of genre blend up that features a very clear real world artistic stakes. And then everything else in the story is fantastical. So, like, making all that seem legible to audiences, I think is a good thing. I think it's one of the reasons why the songs are hitting is because there is just a big audience out in the world for these songs. It's a really unusual thing though, because one original animated features.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's just super hard to pull off right now.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Both not just in terms of story, but like you've chosen an aesthetic for the movie and you're. And that was probably partly my barrier for entry. When I heard the girls talk about it, I thought. My first thought was, this is Netflix slop. This is just filling the algorithm.

[Sean Fennesy]

Same here.

[Andy Greenwald]

My second thought was that. And I don't know why this is. I just focused more on like the demon hunters thing. So I was like, it's probably a little bit just like over the top, emo, whatever. And the fact that it was charming, the fact that it's funny, that's what kind of caught me off guard and drew me in.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. For me, like the K pop aspects of it are what drew it out as much as like. And explain like K pop. I'm not an expert either. It's something that I'm aware of. I'm just too old. So I did feel like this was kind of explaining, welcoming me into the culture a little bit. And it does a good job. I think of both feeling very specific to that world while also throwing those of us who don't know anything a bone here and there.

[Sean Fennesy]

And I think the animation style is not a totalizing, alienating anime approach that some people might have a hard time watching. You know, Akira. Like there is still something like very, very pop about this. It's like very live thin lines, very candy colored, like very approachable for anything.

[Andy Greenwald]

Lovely choreography that. But so here's maybe a broader question for you guys also, not just as parents, but as film commentators at the forefront of this stuff. This really did. I think your Minecraft point is very smart and well taken because I think that what we've been experiencing a lot of is this top down hierarchy of kids movies disappearing up adults asses. So like the fact that Pixar has become a factory of let's explore abstract concepts and emotions through like as if they're trying to solve for cold fusion as opposed to entertain families is so bizarre and so wildly divorced from kids. Like playing video games on the iPad and they like listening to K Pop. So let's meet the kids where they are.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's really striking.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's also something that I've been pointing out over the last couple years which is just like this is the same story of success, new but familiar. This is like these are things that you know about but you've never seen them quite like this before. You've played Minecraft, but have you seen it in a movie you know about Barbie? Have you ever seen her story told this way? Like the things that kind of pop in the culture now that go bigger than the just like, you know, the balance sheets have cleared for Superman stuff that kind of elevates a little bit beyond that tends to have. It's not creatively revolutionary, but it just feels a little bit different than what the last 10 or 15 years have felt like. This is a very strange thing though because one is on Netflix and so obviously their native audience is massive but it's hard for things to become phenomenons.

[Andy Greenwald]

As movies made by Sony though, right?

[Sean Fennesy]

But it's made by Sony. This is the fourth Sony film that. This one, I'm not quite sure what it. So the Mitchells versus the machines four years ago.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was Covid.

[Sean Fennesy]

They like picked that movie up during COVID That's a really good animated film.

[Andy Greenwald]

Gets a lot of burn in my house still.

[Sean Fennesy]

I really liked it. I had the filmmaker on when it came out. I didn't realize that both Wish Dragon and Vivo were also Sony Pictures animation movies. And those are seen as Netflix movies. Vivo had a Lin Manuel Miranda soundtrack on it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Those movies have been seen quite a bit in my house.

[Sean Fennesy]

So now there's this movie that is the fourth one and then the fifth one fixed. The Gendy Tartakovsky movie, which is like kind of a Ren and stimpy esque, like PG13 raunchy dog comedy, is also coming out in August. My question is, why is Sony selling animated movies that people want to see to Netflix?

[Andy Greenwald]

This one is when you. I mean, I don't know if it's hindsight because you see the kind of response this is having and you're like, why did they just give up hundreds of millions of dollars?

[Sean Fennesy]

There's no way they would have reached as many people in theater.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It is a little bit though that it's finding the distribution to get to the. And the fact that, I mean, do you know how many times your daughters have watched it at this point?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, one is safely at camp without watching, but otherwise. And by the way, in terms of communication from camp, the only thing that has gotten an exclamation point to me is the fact that I watched and liked this movie. Okay, that has saved my summer as far as I'm concerned. But no, I think we're at three or four. And then when she gets back, it's going to. We're going to get into 5 and 6.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So. And that's, you know, that's. It's hard to repeat in the same way. Like, does it become the same. Same level of phenomenon in theaters?

[Sean Fennesy]

Maybe not, but Sony movies are already in the Svod window. So this movie was going to Netflix no matter what. So it's unusual. Now this is four movies in a row that I think could have at least made some money theatrically.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can you guys, in your role as watchers on the wall of this stuff, Is there connective tissue here or a discussion point in relation to, you know, the one thing that the COVID windows taught us Right. About, like, if you put Pixar movies on tv, then families and kids are like, why are we going to the theater for it? We get it at home. Like, is there.

[Sean Fennesy]

But this is an inversion of that.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's what I'm saying. So, like, is there some.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think previously Pixar was theatrical and these movies don't have any kind of native setup. They're just sort of. They're just new movies that are on Netflix.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

So I don't know if there's a lot you can glean from it other than I'm sure Sony is getting paid a premium to put these movies on the platform first, and that's a financial decision that they've made. But in doing so, they are doing the same thing that Disney and Pixar accidentally did, which is that they harmed their theatrical power by not making these a primary part of their strategy in terms of putting movies out. And Sony, you know, it's like they're not having the greatest year in the world. I just watched another Sony movie called until dawn, which is a video game adaptation horror movie that they put out earlier this year in theaters that kind of bombed. And I think people are watching on Netflix now, but isn't very good. So I don't have the balance sheet answer for this, but this was clearly gonna be a movie that was gonna connect with people just on the strength of the pop songs. The fact that five of the top seven songs on Spotify are from this movie is remarkable.

[Andy Greenwald]

The other two are episodes of the Big Picture.

[Sean Fennesy]

I believe. Can neither confirm nor deny. Probably not the Fantastic Four episode.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I turned that off into disgust. I don't know what got into you guys that day.

[Sean Fennesy]

So your kids have seen Eliot?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Dogman.

[Andy Greenwald]

My younger daughter saw it without me. She went with a friend and a parent.

[Sean Fennesy]

They are not Nija 2.

[Andy Greenwald]

Don't know what that is.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's the highest grossing film worldwide this year.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's right. I was just testing you.

[Sean Fennesy]

Chinese movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

You passed.

[Sean Fennesy]

Thank you. Smurfs.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, even there. Like, come on. I mean, everybody knows.

[Sean Fennesy]

Will they see bad guys too?

[Andy Greenwald]

Very excited for bad guys. Big Bad guys fans.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. SpongeBob Movie. Search for SquarePants.

[Andy Greenwald]

Can't imagine it. Because culturally that has no relevance to them. They.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They're too young.

[Andy Greenwald]

They were too young and I'm too old. I don't. I don't know any of those things were. So. I don't get that one.

[Sean Fennesy]

Zootopia2 okay, great question.

[Andy Greenwald]

Super pumped. Also, may I say, before my screening of Fantastic Four First Steps. Truly a great film that I saw this weekend. There was the Zootopia 2 trailer.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And my daughter and I were so thrilled. Not just she was thrilled. Cause there's a Zootopia 2. This trailer doesn't have any scenes from the movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's just that it's their dancing. Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's a TikTok video.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's do more of this. There is a trailer that communicates the two most important things. One, this exists. And then for everyone else, they're like, this has style, this has personality.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's good for a sequel. I think it would be a hard sell if it wasn't original.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, sure. But I'm saying we don't need the whole. I don't disagree, you know. Now that said, because of our recent summer movie viewing, my 8 year old has now seen the action trailer for One Battle after another twice.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And come with us.

[Andy Greenwald]

Opening night does not think this is going to be a good film.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's really, really, really negative on this. And then got more negative when I said, see that guy? That's Jack from Titanic. Oh, no, it's not.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's really funny.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it's not. That is the hardest part.

[Sean Fennesy]

You guys have watched Titanic already?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, again, when you have the two kids. My older daughter is obsessed with it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, of course.

[Sean Fennesy]

And Titanic's gonna go so hard in my house.

[Andy Greenwald]

The younger one is Shell.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, I'll come over for that one.

[Sean Fennesy]

That's gonna go crazy.

[Andy Greenwald]

By the way, sidebar. I feel like all of us, or at least two of us, wandered into the filming of Cliff Booth this weekend in Figueroa.

[Sean Fennesy]

I did as well.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We went to go see it because I read that it was happening. And now my son is just like absolutely obsessed with crane shots and was also mansplaining them. By the end he was like, so the cameras, they go up there. They're sleeping right now. This is a serious request. I already asked Sean this. If anyone listening has any recommendation of behind the scenes or making of footage of like, of big, big crane shots. Because we obviously went on YouTube and it's just like dudes with their like, you know, little 12 foot rigs.

[Andy Greenwald]

As someone who has made a TV show, this tracks with all male directors, like of any age.

[Sean Fennesy]

I said, he's born to be a cinematographer.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, because like I showed him like famous shots and he was like, but where's the crane? So that's what he wants to see.

[Sean Fennesy]

I recommended some of the Indiana Jones behind the scenes stuff. I Feel like there could be some good. Do you?

[Andy Greenwald]

My kids hate the Indiana Jones movies. Just uninterested.

[Sean Fennesy]

No K Pop. Demon Henry address.

[Andy Greenwald]

Uninterested. So right now in Highland park on Figueroa, the old movie theater and then the shops are transformed into the, I guess early 70s of this or late 60s of this film.

[Sean Fennesy]

So the Zenith store.

[Andy Greenwald]

The Zenith store. There's a women's dress. It looks great. It's a perfect setting for this. Do you feel like this is going to affect your movie? Knowing that at any point Cliff Booth could cross the street and pay 1950 for an artisanal turkey sandwich? A cookbook.

[Amanda Dobbin]

We did buy the amazing cookbook Banana Bread after our visit.

[Sean Fennesy]

We will not be slandering cookbook on this podcast. I want you to know that is a. I have been cookbook loyal since I lived in Echo park, as I'm sure you are.

[Andy Greenwald]

But the sandwich now costs 90. I'm going to look into the camera.

[Sean Fennesy]

Those sandwiches are coming directly from Europe and these tariffs must end.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's one of the first things I ate after I gave birth to psy. I was like, bring me the turkey sandwich that I have not had. You deserve.

[Andy Greenwald]

That sandwich should be reserved only for people who have done incredible things.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Thank you so much. Yes. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not for just the crew of the Adventures of Cliff Booth. You know what I mean?

[Sean Fennesy]

It is really nice that they're filming in Los Angeles in our neighborhood that wasn't for this movie. Very great. Andy Greenwald, one of the best out.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is fun.

[Sean Fennesy]

Thanks for coming on.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thanks for letting me be a demon hunter.

[Sean Fennesy]

Any other films that we reviewed that you vehemently disagreed with us on that you would like to call us out on right now?

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, thank you for the opportunity. I would love to make this a recurring bit. I do think that we have mentioned every single film that I've seen in the last six months.

[Sean Fennesy]

Copy that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think all three and a half of them have mentioned.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You saw Mission Impossible, Final Reckoning. Yeah. You and Chris were mad.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oof.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Big mad.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was really.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's not very good. It's not very good.

[Andy Greenwald]

I saw Superman. Yeah, I like that.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Fantastic Four. Great. Saw Thunderbolts. Really liked it.

[Sean Fennesy]

I agree.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was good.

[Sean Fennesy]

All these haters forgot that I was like thunderbolts.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Good materialists. You seen it yet?

[Andy Greenwald]

Not yet.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Check in with us.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not yet.

[Sean Fennesy]

I would like to have a conversation.

[Amanda Dobbin]

With you as well.

[Andy Greenwald]

I. Because I'm a. I'm a songstress. I love. I loved that first movie.

[Sean Fennesy]

I Love, Past Lives. This is a little different.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. I need you to do Materialists and Too Much and then.

[Andy Greenwald]

Come on. I need to do. Okay, yeah. Well, you're welcome for the too much conversation. Here's my materialist thing. Can I. Can I do a before and after?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

Past Lives. One of my favorite movies the last few years. Like, for me, like, I can't wait to see what this woman does next. And then of all the people she could make a movie with, she. She's at the height of her power. Right. Like, coming off that movie, she chooses Dakota to be in this movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. I'm on the record about this Madame Web slander. And that's. That's what I call her. That's what her friends call her. They call her Madame Web on it. Yeah. Just on a daily basis. I think she's powerful.

[Sean Fennesy]

She's a poor performer.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't.

[Andy Greenwald]

I just.

[Sean Fennesy]

It seems like a breakout.

[Amanda Dobbin]

She's not the only one in that movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Here's the thing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Speaking of fantast.

[Andy Greenwald]

I just don't. I don't get it with it. Like, it's just. Maybe it's just like. It's like a color spectrum I can't see.

[Sean Fennesy]

Preaching to the choir, Andy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think Pedro is decent in Fantastic Four.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He's. He's. I mean, it's a hard part, man. He's just Gumby.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh. Well, his powers are dumb, so I thought they. They and always have been. So, yeah, he's just like.

[Amanda Dobbin]

He's just, like, stressed and bad at public relations. He's not. No, he's.

[Andy Greenwald]

The smart guys.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They didn't communicate that he was really boring.

[Andy Greenwald]

The core of the movie that I feel like you guys missed. Maybe, again, maybe this is a color spectrum you can't see. And I. But they get to the point where they're like, smartest man in the world. What's your solve here for the purple space God who's gonna eat Earth? He's like, we're gonna fucking teleport Earth. That's comic books.

[Sean Fennesy]

I love that.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's insanity. And the movie was, like, cool. Great idea. I wanted that. That made me happy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I'm really happy you found something you like. It's nice. Thank you, Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

Look, this is basically like that web series where that guy argued with the fascists, right? Like, this is Jubilee. You have the same setup here, and I was brave enough to do it. So let's see you guys step into the arena over across the Hall, Studio 6.

[Sean Fennesy]

We'll have you back for the Fantastic Four second steps?

[Andy Greenwald]

Fantastic Five?

[Sean Fennesy]

No, Fantastic Four, Fantastic Franklin 6.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, there we go. There we go. He saved his mom. I know. Yeah, but the mom has really saved.

[Andy Greenwald]

Everyone else, you know, and then she deserves a $19 sandwich.

[Amanda Dobbin]

There we go.

[Sean Fennesy]

We're done.

[Andy Greenwald]

Solved it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. Andy's gone. Just me and you.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

We can finally talk about what we've been longing to discuss. I know what you did last summer.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

2025.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

This movie is written and directed by Jennifer Caton Robinson. It is co written by Sam Lansky. It stars Madeline Klein, Chase Sui Wonders, Jonah Howard, King, Tyreek Withers, Sarah Pigeon, Billy Campbell, among others. This is a legacyquel reboot of, I would argue, the second most significant, not second best, but second most significant teen slasher in the 1990s. Rebirth of horror.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. The Oppenheimer 2 screams Barbie.

[Sean Fennesy]

That seems a little generous to. I know what you did last summer.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And it did. And if you were there, which we were, it was a pop cultural moment that brought in like a whole new genre or introduced a generation to a whole new genre, brought, I think, horror, like a little more mainstream and. And just. And more pop and introduced a lot of very important stars. So I. I know what you did last summer is extremely important culturally. The original.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yep. It was a. It was a hit, like a solid hit for its time. I revisited the movie a couple of months ago. I don't know if you had a chance to look at it again. Not the greatest script in the world, not the best performances you've ever seen, but you know when you can tell you're watching a studio movie from the 90s and all the people who are on the crew have spent 28 years learning their craft. And the movie just weirdly looks beautiful for a Hollywood movie. Like, it's lit gorgeously. The staging is really nice, real locations. It has like a. It's not a great movie by any means, but it has a kind of quality feeling that is not just. I'm not just speaking prismatically through my own nostalgia because the script is not good, but it looks better than, I think, what a lot of films that are shot on digital look like now.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It is contemporaneous with Dawson's Creek and also written by Kevin Williamson, who created Dawson's Creek. It is set on the southern coast.

[Sean Fennesy]

Much like Dawson's Creek of the American South.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure. And you know, Dawson's Creek was also featured in like J. Crew catalogs in the 90s. There is. This was an aesthetic that was. Was being created and was powerful in the moment. So yeah, it's. I, I agree it's not as good as Scream. And it is. And it is like lightweight, like amateur scream in a lot of ways. It was for the mes of the world and not for the use in the 90s, but it is, it's still something that we should respect.

[Sean Fennesy]

One of the best things it has going for it is its title and its sort of premise of receiving a note about the guilt that people feel anyone can relate to. Like, oh, that one thing I did. I hope no one finds out about this one thing that I did. And of course it has this cast in 1997. Jennifer Love Hewitt at the absolute apex of her. Like every guy I knew was gaga over her. Sarah Michelle Geller. I don't know if it was during the Buffy. The. The Vampire Slayer run. Might have been right before she started as Buffy. Freddie Prinze Jr. Who would go on to marry Sarah Michelle Gellar and was a bit of a heartthrob of his own at the time, and Ryan Phillippe. So you've got these four very well known actors in addition to like Johnny Galecki, who would go on to be on Big Bang Theory. And there's a lot of recognizable faces in that movie. Again, like I said, a movie that I think is fun but never really meant a whole lot to me. It did get a sequel in 99, 2000 maybe. That is not very good.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, I don't even remember what happens in it, though I did see it in theaters.

[Sean Fennesy]

There's a continuation of the Hook Handed Killer.

[Amanda Dobbin]

The Hook Handed Killer is good, in my opinion. It's good also.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's a bit of a rehash of some 80s stuff.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, sure, but it is also the one ghost story that you got told at camp. The person with the hook, you know. So again, it is. I understand it is really, really mainstream, like kind of lame starter horror stuff for people who had it on vinyl or whatever. But like, it's a good conceit.

[Sean Fennesy]

You nailed it. That is the perfect way to describe it. And it's one of the reasons why I think it crossed over is like all the horror heads were like, I gotta go see this, even if it's not that good. And a lot of young men and women, teenagers who watched Dawson's Creek were like, I gotta go see this party.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Of five, et cetera. Exactly.

[Sean Fennesy]

It was a certain era. Now we actually exist in a somewhat similar era. Culturally, when you look at this cast in particular and some of the movies and TV shows that they've starred in. For example, Madeline Cline. The movie's really being sold on. Madelyn Cline, one of the stars of Outer Banks, one of the stars of Glass Onion. You know, kind of your typical young blonde ingenue. And even though she isn't the main character of this movie, it's interesting how much they have focused on her in the marketing of the movie. Cause Chase Tsui wonders is really the key Final Girl. And the story again takes place in Southport. It is again about a group of friends who, one night, after a party, are driving on the road. They find their way to Reaper's Curve. They get into some trouble, and then, boom, all of a sudden, someone died. Now they feel a modicum of guilt for that death. Whether or not they are responsible for that death is something I would like to explore with you as to whether or not this movie even works at all. But before I say anything else, what did you think of I Know what yout did last summer, 2025?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I thought this was disrespectful to its audience. I was angry. I thought this was disrespectful to the 90s and to those of us who remember the 90s and also to the young people of today who deserve better in their storytelling, in their kills, honestly. And I'm not an expert. And I was like, like, what is this? Who shot this? Why is this? Why are we cutting away at all of the. I mean, just the blocking was very unimpressive, obviously. The ending is just silly. But we. I mean, we have to stop saying the T word. We just have to stop saying it. Like, I. I understand trauma. Yeah. There is. There is real trauma throughout the world and also in every single horror movie ever. And again, I'm not an expert, and I know that it's all a metaphor for people exploring some tough stuff that happened to them. But when we need to. When we have to spoon feed it on a chalkboard with Jennifer Love Hewitt reanimated, like, I. I can't. I'm out. It's so. It's condescending.

[Andy Greenwald]

You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port.

[Sean Fennesy]

Visit or break the sound barrier.

[Andy Greenwald]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, I think that one of the challenges of this movie, which I think is dreadful, like, really one of the worst movies of the year, it pains me to say that I would love for a teen slasher to be a lot of fun. I love slasher so much. This movie can't decide if it wants to be like a camp satire of the original film and all slashers or a serious meditation on what trauma is. One of my biggest problems with trauma horror in the last five or six years is not showing us what happened to the people. At least in this case, we are seeing the trauma transpire.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, one generation's and you and I.

[Sean Fennesy]

Have seen the other. And this movie flashes back literally to the older film, which looks better than this movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That also makes these beloved actors give you dense, poorly written exposition that they're not feeling as they're delivering it. How about that?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, I mean, here's a huge problem. The characters in this movie are so thinly drawn. It's not that the, you know, the prom queen and the, you know, brown haired, mousy normal girl who's also Jennifer Love Hewitt in the original film were the deepest characters. It's not, you know, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest than the original film, but in this movie it's like, it's literally the blonde hot one, right? The hot one who's not blonde and is actually the final girl. It's the bland guy who, you don't remember his first name. It's the jock who drinks too much and it's the skinny outsider girl. We don't know anything about these people. That isn't, you know, exposition to us for one minute. They have no defining personality traits. They're just kind of floating through this story.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I completely agree on the. And the characterization is only. Did you have a trauma or not? That's the only development. I, I did think some of the performances were enjoyable anyway. I thought Madeline Klein was very good. I thought Tyreek Withers was very good. And Sarah Pigeon I like, I enjoyed as well.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, they're fine. They're fine.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Listen, they're not bad. It's not their fault.

[Sean Fennesy]

They're not bad. I think it's a huge misuse of Chase Sui wonders who, like, if you watch the studio, she's like, is an actress with a real sense of humor and this is a movie that doesn't really let her get to be funny until the final minute of the movie, which is the. One of the biggest Miss Strokes in the whole film. Yeah, she does.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Her styling is, is pretty good.

[Sean Fennesy]

I was sure. Okay, well.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And I just. She was wearing a lot of little socks with her sandals and I felt, I thought she looked great. And I also felt like as old as the sun when I was watching. I Was like, this is. This is for people wearing more than me right now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For, like, socks. Little ankle socks.

[Sean Fennesy]

Little ankle socks.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or with the loafers.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, great.

[Amanda Dobbin]

This is like three or four years now running. Come on. I need you to.

[Sean Fennesy]

Not something I'm aware of. Not gonna look into it either.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You stick with.

[Sean Fennesy]

Let's go. Let's wait. Let's explore what happens in this movie. Right, so in the original film, the four friends are out drinking down on the beach one night after Sarah Michelle Gellar's character is named, like, queen of the town. Right. She's the young teen princess of the town. And they're getting ripped. Shit. And they're driving home. The driver is sober, but Ryan Philippe is, like, standing up through the sunroof of the car and going crazy. And they hit a drifter with their car, and they think they killed somebody. And they leave the scene of the crime, right. And they bear this incredible guilt. And then they start getting stalked one year later by either the person they killed or someone that was related to it or whatever. In this film, the Tyreek Withers character is high and he's playing in the road, and a car goes by, and he almost gets hit by the car, and his friend Milo saves him. And then another car comes immediately after that, and they're still kind of standing in the road, but they're pulled off to the side of the road and the car swerves and drives off a cliff. Okay, so this is not, like, ideal. This is not something you want to happen. It's not ethical, what they do in the aftermath of this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No. Which is go back to the rich dad's home and he, quote, unquote, handles everything.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, but they call the police. The police come to survey the scene of the crime. Like, they do call the police, and then they leave the scene. And they don't go to the police and tell them what happened or what their role was in it. Now, again, this wasn't a nice thing to do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

But this is a critical error to me in the movie, and I'll tell you why.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, go ahead.

[Sean Fennesy]

This movie, like, wants us to love its characters. It wants us to be on their side, and it wants us to make sure that they don't die. This is a slasher movie. The teenagers have to die. That's the whole point of the movie. The movie is not that they're, like, actually good kids. These are, like rich kids from Southport.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. But they have trauma suck that. You know, so it's like they've gotta. They've gotta. I agree with you. It's so stupid.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's such a poor idea. Like, there has to be something in it. Like, even the Tyrick Withers character, who is like, the worst one of the group, is just like.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is actually very charming, is pretty entertaining.

[Sean Fennesy]

In the movie, and is just like a rich alcoholic, you know, and that's fine. The idea that we are not, like, excited to watch these people get killed.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. Because we have to like all of them. Because everyone has to be relatable. And you can only have, like, quote, unquote, good characters in your movies. And Pedro Pascal can't work in private equity. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's stupid.

[Sean Fennesy]

It is a problem. It is really a problem in a certain kind of studio movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Need to demand more, you know? And really, the people who are making entertainment for them need to stop condescending. Because that's why I think it is genuinely insulting to think that this is what people want.

[Sean Fennesy]

One of the best things about the first movie is that Sarah Michelle Geller dies. Not that it's, like, great to watch Sarah Michelle Geller die, but it's a choice that they make to kill off one of the most notable characters in the movie in a dramatic way.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

This movie has no stakes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They fake it a couple times, but they're not even good fakes.

[Sean Fennesy]

I agree. It's a pretty big mistake. So the kids are too likable, and most of them don't die. And the ways in which they do is, as you said, not very dramatic or very scary. It feels like a few filmmakers who have not made a horror movie before maybe lack some of the understandings of the mechanics of how to shoot sequences. And so it doesn't work that well. And they're using this IP to kind of springboard into an opportunity. Let's talk about the return of the original cast. Okay, so, spoiler alert. Three of the four members of the original cast return. You might be wondering how that's possible, given the events of the first film. We'll explain it. In this movie, Jennifer Love Hewitt's character is a psychology professor.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. She specializes in. She's a trauma specialist.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Julia James. I'll come back to her. Still living in the town of Southport, and he will not forget the past is Freddie Prinze Jr. S character, Ray, who is now a bar owner. And then in a. Again, spoiler alert, bewildering dream sequence, Sarah Michelle Gellar's character returns to deliver a kind of speech to Madeline Cline's character about what she's done and what's coming for her and the consequences of her actions. Who do you want to start with first?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, I, I do. I agree that in terms of story and logic and, and again, insulting the audience, the dream sequence was very stupid. But I thought Sarah Michelle Geller was the best of the three by far. And it's great to see her. She's a star and she and Madeline Cline have a nice. But she's also doing, like, full Cruel Intentions. Sarah Michelle Gellar. And I'm just. I'm always happy to see that, even if it's in a totally contrived dream sequence.

[Sean Fennesy]

She has kind of slipped away. She doesn't really act as much as she used to. I guess that's technically true for all three of these, I guess, former stars, but she immediately channels that character from the original movie. The sequence makes no sense and is pretty bad. Yeah. Why would Madeline Cline know exactly what this character, how she speaks or how she acts in her dream sequence? She's met her and she died 30 years ago. Well, I, I don't. I, I literally don't understand. Like, is that dreams. That's. That's just fan service. Like, that's that all that sequence. Is that being said, Sarah Michelle Geller looks amazing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, she does.

[Sean Fennesy]

She has aged remarkably. Okay. Freddie Prinze Jr. Yeah. This.

[Amanda Dobbin]

This is tough, you know, not really.

[Sean Fennesy]

Ever one of the great actors.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And I'm not sure that Rhae is one of the great characters. He plays a critical role in this film.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

So he is the sort of caretaker of a young woman named Stevie whose parents have disappeared and left her in Southport. And she is grieving over certain losses. She's lost all her money. She is a. She was a former friend of this popular clique, and because she has fallen on hard times, they sort of abandoned her and went off to college and started their lives. And she comes back into their lives with this incident. And Ray, I guess, is like her business partner or something. Turns out they've got more cooking than just working together. Because they're working, they're scheming on murder.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesy]

Some of the weirdest murder plots you've ever seen in your life.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Don't really make a lot of sense. And then he does have to carry the emotional weight of the turn and convey not just that he is the secret co killer, but also he is the secret co killer because of what 30 years of PTSD has done to him.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And he. And what it means to him and his community. And this script does not help, but I would not say that that emotional weight is conveyed to us.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, so let me pitch something at you because I thought this was interesting. My friend Chris Rosen proffered a theory on Letterbox that he was like, this would have been a lot better if the killers in this movie were actually just Ray and Julia, and that they went full bore. Like, don't forget about us. Forget it. Like, this is what generations do. And it's not just the trauma of the past. It's that, like, there's a kind of narcissism in every generation. And we're getting our revenge on you because of how we have been wounded by what happened to us.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm open to it.

[Sean Fennesy]

That would have. And there's, like, a glint of that in the speech that he gives at the end of the movie where he's kind of trying to gesture towards that, but also saying, Stevie was devastated because Sam, her boyfriend, was the guy who accidentally drove off the cliff. And it's like, he did drive off the cliff. They didn't, like, push the car off the cliff, you know, like, he did have a car accident.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

And she needs to kill all these people that she went to high school.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I will say that I am not an expert on, Like, I'm not in the emergency services, but I don't know if their protocol as the car was balancing on the cliff was, like, helping.

[Sean Fennesy]

What would you do?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Situation.

[Sean Fennesy]

What would you have done?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, I just. No one was thinking about counterweights, you know, Like, I.

[Sean Fennesy]

But would you have sat on the back of the truck bed?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I was not good at physics, but there was some, like, simple machine stuff that we could have done there.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, you just get. You don't want to get on the vehicle and then fall with the vehicle.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, it's true. But they were just kind of, like, standing there.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It took them too long to punch into the window.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, no, the other guy. The guy was inside, punched out of the window, and that's why he fell.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, I see.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. I. I don't know. It's just in. In that case, they. They didn't do the best that they could do.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Incompetence all around.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Sam, the driver, the five kids who failed to save Sam. And then Stevie losing her mind, thinking that it was their fault that Sam died.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So does she not recognize Sam's car also in that moment?

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, it's. We learned that it's the pastor's car and that Sam has been borrowing it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But she's like in the photos at the church.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's a great point. It's a plot hole. There are a variety of plot holes.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I know it's true. I'm just, you know, there are series. We spent our time watching this film, so now we ask the questions.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, I think I can deal with plot holes in horror movies. That's not the biggest issues to me.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So anyway, to go back to the Chris Rosen theory of if it were Rhea and Julie, I think that that works and is a lot better. It still does rely on a good script or a better script. And also people actors able to convey that level of emotional things and to show, not tell, which is, you know, my major problem with all of the trauma plot line in this, which is just literally everyone's diagramming. I have a trauma, which is so. And I do. I thought Jennifer. It was very nice to see Jennifer Love Hewitt, but, you know, it's tough.

[Sean Fennesy]

So let's try to. For those at home who don't really know about this or remember, there was a period of time, obviously she was born out of Party of Five. She played Scott Wolf's girlfriend on the series, and she hit in a series of movies, Can't Hardly Wait, Heartbreakers, this film, a handful of others. And she's an obvious object of affection for a lot of teenage boys. But I thought not a great actress by any means, but kind of had some good, like, weird comic energy. Like she could sit in a movie like, Can't Hardly Wait. Very comic.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Amanda.

[Sean Fennesy]

Amanda, I'm very sorry for you. You know, over time, she became more of a TV star. Eventually. She was the Ghost Whisperer, which I know you watched every episode of what. She was the Ghost Whisperer. She whispered to ghosts in what continents?

[Amanda Dobbin]

That was a show. What happens? I mean, she whispers to ghosts, but, like, where. Where are the ghosts? Are they around the world? Is she a ghost?

[Sean Fennesy]

I think she was in New Orleans, I want to say. And, you know, there'd be ghosts down in New Orleans, as we all know, and she would help connect people with crimes that were committed and things like that. It was like a CSI thing, but supernatural.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay, but like, was it on CBS or was it.

[Sean Fennesy]

I believe it was cbs.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. For how many seasons?

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. And she was also on the. She was also the star of the Client List, which was a series where she was like a madam.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, dear.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think that was on usa.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, right, right, right. And that was inspired by a news.

[Sean Fennesy]

Story or I think there might have been Flecks of Heidi Fleiss in there, but I don't know that it was really her life story.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Wow. I didn't know about Ghost Whisperer.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, yeah. It was kind of a. I don't know if it was a big show.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's sort of like Medium, but.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes. But minus Patricia Arquette's talent.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right?

[Sean Fennesy]

I would say.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. I mean, once again, we're circling around a thing.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

New Orleans is also just the wrong setting for Jennifer Love Hewitt.

[Sean Fennesy]

Ghost Whisperer, Melinda Gordon is a young woman who can communicate with the earthbound spirits of people who have died and who seek her help. She uses it to relay significant messages and important information to the living. But sometimes the messages she receives are intense and confusing, etc. Etc. Let me just make sure I find out where this. Now this show takes place in Grandview, New York. I apologize to the fine people of New Orleans.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. I mean, that. I guess that's better than New Orleans, but I don't know.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's never been to Grandview. Can't say I know it very well. It's in Rockland County. Anyway, I bring all this up because jlh, you know, she used to. She used to mean something to a certain kind of person in this world. Her acting has not gotten better.

[Amanda Dobbin]

No.

[Sean Fennesy]

And she's not very good in this movie at all. And it's a problem. It's a problem. She's not helped by the script, but when she comes on screen, people in my room, my audience were laughing, and it was a little mean. It was kind of a mean room, to be honest with you. Not the best crowd I've seen a movie with in the last two years.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They were disrespectful.

[Sean Fennesy]

A lot of talking.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

My chair was kicked quite a few times.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That is frustrating.

[Sean Fennesy]

Not ideal.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I really lost it on my toddler the other yesterday. Cause he was kicking my chair.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's not one of my favorite things.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's enervating.

[Sean Fennesy]

It is.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And so you've got these three actors who are aging and who seem like nice people. I got nothing against them. They gave me a lot of Joy in the 90s. But they also can't carry the load of this week's script.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Who was that other guy who dies?

[Sean Fennesy]

Which other guy?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't know. The boring guy. Chase. Stewie Wonders is like, sort of.

[Sean Fennesy]

That was Jonah Hauer King.

[Amanda Dobbin]

What's up with him?

[Sean Fennesy]

He was Prince Eric in the live action Little Mermaid film.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Mm.

[Sean Fennesy]

Which I've seen.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure. I've seen it too. I saw it in theaters. Javier Bardem, King Triton.

[Sean Fennesy]

I did as well. I didn't like that movie very much.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I didn't either.

[Sean Fennesy]

He's just a bland guy with ass.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Like, is he on Stranger Things or something? At this point, I can't keep him.

[Sean Fennesy]

No, I don't think he's on a show like that. I think he's just trying to make it into biz.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Quinn was on Stranger Things. I learned that from Instagram this morning.

[Sean Fennesy]

That's true. Good for you. Nice. Nice find by you. Interesting. The most popular show the last five years. So. Yeah, this movie's bad. Here's the thing. The ending is a nightmare for a variety of reasons. It's not just the reveal of Rey's involvement in the murder and the boat kill. The boat kill reminded me a little bit of Wild Things. Do you remember the movie Wild Things?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Of course I remember the movie Wild.

[Sean Fennesy]

Things featuring Neve Campbell.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Ned Campbell.

[Sean Fennesy]

Listen. The star of Party of Five.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Listen, we were there. It was something important.

[Sean Fennesy]

But then something happens at the very end of the movie. So we learn that Madelyn Cline's character actually survives a gunshot on the boat. She, I guess, is washed ashore.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I guess so.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Because then she. She has like a dramatic coming back to life. Much like. Spoiler alert, Vanessa Kirby in Fantastic Four.

[Sean Fennesy]

That's true. Also, Chase Wonder survives.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And they're down at the old Southport Hospital.

[Amanda Dobbin]

They're getting out, which has incredible merch. They're not getting out. I think they're just like on.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, they're just on a wander.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. And they're wearing some outside time hospital gowns. They're wearing, like Southport, like, hospital sweatshirts.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And which honestly, looked. I was like, this is pretty good.

[Sean Fennesy]

Hospital shoes. Gotta get you one of those.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And then they go for a sit down by the beach and they have a little chit chat. And then the movie just like record scratches into a completely different movie with funny dialogue. And I think at the end, Wonder says, we could have avoided all this if men would just go to therapy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right? Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Which I know is like a really funny joke from the Internet. But the killer in the movie is a young woman who is traumatized by.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. Well. But then also another man. And then if the original man. If the original killer in the first one had gone. I mean, I think it sucks.

[Sean Fennesy]

So if the man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And by the way. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And the first film had gone to therapy, we could have avoided this franchise.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. So he didn't have to be mad.

[Sean Fennesy]

But I don't want to avoid the franchise. I want to avoid this movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. It was terrible and not funny. There are a few jokes like this sprinkled throughout the movie of them trying to be like internety and like, quote, unquote hip. You know, there's one thing where Madeline Klein is like, have you seen the meme about how if someone you love died, would you still do your skincare routine? The answer is yes. So, yeah, it's really annoying.

[Sean Fennesy]

What'd you think of the podcast host? Live Laugh Slaughter.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, Live Last Slaughter. It was, it was funny, you know.

[Sean Fennesy]

Did you feel indicted?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, because I don't really partake of the true crime industry and I do think they're kind of weird, so I didn't mind sending that one up. And, you know, representation matters, as we learned. So it's nice for us that everyone's out there. And she was hot. So as they say, they pointed that.

[Sean Fennesy]

Out a couple of times. She was hot. Very strange movie. Did not succeed at the box office at all. And I guess I'm a little bit surprised by that. We are getting a little bit long in the tooth on the 90s legacy sequel. Obviously Scream has now had two iterations. We're getting a third iteration of the new cast, but they're refocusing on Sidney. Neve Campbell is back. She did get paid. You know, I pretty much like the last two Scream movies. The first one, the Return, I thought was pretty darn good. The last one was quite silly, but I had fun.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Is that one with. Who is the guy in it?

[Sean Fennesy]

It's the same crew from the previous film.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And one of the guys is stabbed like nine times, but he survives in a very memorable fake out death. But this does have me thinking about the 90s and what it was, what it gave us. It's obviously a signal decade on the podcast 90s and horror is very strange. You, for probably the first five years of the 90s, fair to say, were not aware of anything that was happening in the horror space. I have to imagine. But then in the, in the mid to late.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Mid to late, I participated.

[Sean Fennesy]

You're a teenager, right? You're going to the movies and.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And it really does break out of the genre box.

[Sean Fennesy]

It does a little. It does. It kind of goes. It goes more mainstream than it had been. The late 80s are really defined by the big monsters that emerged from all the slasher movies. Freddy Krueger, Jason Voorhees, Chucky Pinhead. And the movies really bled those characters dry.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Just googling Pinhead.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, that Guy from Hellraiser. Yes, sure.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think there have been five Hellraiser movies. I think there have been like nine Chucky movies. There have been 12 Friday the 13th movies. You know, the list is long and they were really. Every 18 to 24 months you get a new one of these movies. I do want to represent them somewhat. The 90s is this weird place where there's some new stuff. You get some mainstream stuff like Scream, which is probably the most important movie of the era, but you also get some more high toned stuff. And this is really where I think genre becomes a safe space for art, for lack of a better word. It doesn't mean that John Carpenter is not art, but those are mostly movies that were pitched at mainstream audiences. But now in this decade, you get a lot more films that are a little bit more experimental or a lot more foreign films that make their way overseas than we had previously been getting in America. I'm not totally sure the 90s is actually that much worse than say the 2000s. I've been thinking about this a little bit the last couple days. The 2000s, for horror, the biggest trend was just remaking 70s and 80s horror movies. So off the top of my head last night I just wrote down Carrie, the Fog, Nightmare on Elm street, Friday the 13th, last house on the Left, Hills have Eyes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, Amityville Horror, My Bloody Valentine, dawn of the Dead, Fright Night, House of Wax, all those movies got remade. Those are all horror movies. That was the 2000s, which we think of as like maybe a better time. But it might have just been a more popular time for horror movies. So the 90s are not bad per se, but I'm trying to figure out what happened. Okay, why did the genre come back in the mid-90s after having kind of a fallow period in the early part of the decade? I don't want to get too Galaxy Brain about Bill Clinton's America, okay? But I think there's something in there.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, of course, you know, something in.

[Sean Fennesy]

There about Illicit Desire and Scandal and Cover up and, you know, the brain worms that a lot of people on the right had about whatever was going on with who Killed Vince Foster and all that shit that I think bred a little bit of a genre shift in our thinking. I think you can attribute some of the, like Serial Killer wave to a lot of that thinking too. That's a question I have for you as we get into this exercise. You know, Se7en and silence of the Lambs and Kiyoshi Kurosawa's Cure, who we just talked about on the show, are three of the best serial killer movies ever made. Are those movies horror movies?

[Amanda Dobbin]

You were talking about this recently in Chicago.

[Sean Fennesy]

We talked about it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, Silence of the Lambs.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Did we talk about it in person or on a podcast?

[Sean Fennesy]

We talked about it in person. It was me and you and Chris and Tracy in a car.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Heck, yeah. On the way to the Steppenwolf Theater.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. I was like, I've been a part of this recently. And you guys were defining it mostly through kill time.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, that was what Chris said. Chris was like, how many kills happen in this movie? And in Se7en famously, I think only one character is murdered. I think. Right. Only. Isn't only John Doe murdered or I guess maybe the dying drug addict is shot.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. And you do see more in Silence of the Lambs, but it is still focused on the investigation as opposed to the. Like the. The art of the kill and the kill is set piece. Yes, I guess so.

[Sean Fennesy]

Cure, as well, is a series of investigations. You know, there is some perverse stuff that happens in it. And so, I mean, I'm kind of inclined to leave them off of this list.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I think that's right.

[Sean Fennesy]

And just say that they're. These are very special movies. They're great. If you want to say Silence of the Lambs, it's terrifying, that's understandable. But it makes it a little bit easier, I think, to navigate what matters from this time. Stephen King.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Speak on it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Obviously one of my faves. I've watched every adaptation of everything that has ever been made of his work. I stopped reading his novels a long time ago, but I still will watch any movie of a novel that he has written. We have a couple more coming later this year. The Long Walk is out in September, for example. The 90s is interesting bunch of movies. You could make the case that the very best movies that were adapted from his work are not horror movies. Right. Because that's Shawshank, Dolores Claiborne and the Green Mile.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. Romy Mars agrees.

[Sean Fennesy]

Romy Mars. What does she like?

[Amanda Dobbin]

She likes Shawshank. Remember, she joined Letterbox just to like Shawshank.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, and what's in her top four right now?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I honestly didn't check.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, you look it up and I'll talk. Here are the King movies that came out then. Misery, the Lawnmower Man, Needful Things, the Dark Half, Thinner, not bad. Misery. The best of the bunch, for sure. Misery would probably be right on the outside looking in for me. Movie I like great William Goldman script. Amazing performance by Kathy Bates. The reason I'm not putting any King stuff on is because I think the best stuff is TV.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All right.

[Sean Fennesy]

It and the Stand. Two of my favorite things from the 90s TV miniseries. They wouldn't make the canon on a movie podcast. On a TV podcast. Perhaps that would be a good episode for the Watch a miniseries episode. There've been a lot of great miniseries over the years. We've kind of had miniseries have been.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Bastardized by streaming and then they're not really miniseries anymore. Then they just become eight episode shows.

[Sean Fennesy]

And then they get a second season all of a sudden. Okay, so no King, no serial killers, David Lynch.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It seems like something different.

[Sean Fennesy]

It does.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Said with respect.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Fire Walk With Me and Lost highway make a lot of sense in the conversation, but they are also. These movies are maybe more psychological thriller and pure horror.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. And they encapsulate my. The feeling of horror in a lot of ways and the horror of the everyday. But they are not Chris Ryan's watching people get slashed definition always.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, this is a big one.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

The Sixth Sense.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Well, I mean, I think that this is pure thriller and not.

[Sean Fennesy]

There are ghosts.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, that's right.

[Sean Fennesy]

There are ghosts.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But like, but the ghosts aren't. Are they committing violence?

[Sean Fennesy]

No.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. So I think violence is the.

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, interesting. You think that's an organizing principle of horror?

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's what we're working towards. Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Jack Sanders, can I get you to weigh in on the Sixth Sense? Is it a pure horror movie blind.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Spot, Sixth Sense, never seen. Do you know what happens?

[Sean Fennesy]

I see ghosts.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Kid, Little kid says I see ghosts. No, no. Oh, dude, tonight, okay, Tonight.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Don't Google anything. Don't say anything.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Do you actually need to watch?

[Sean Fennesy]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, understood. That's crazy. That's a really cool blind spot to not know.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Also. I can't believe it hasn't spoiled for you. Okay, we have to stop talking about it. I don't think it qualifies.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's right on the line.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, but it's.

[Sean Fennesy]

And it's also 1999 and it like changed a lot of things.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Can also, like, you could say that it's the exception that makes the rule. But like, I, you know, let's. Let's be purists.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay? I know what you did last summer is not going on the list. I just want you to know that.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I do know that and I think that's really insulting.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. I want to acknowledge it. I also want to acknowledge the wave of teenagers dimension films movies that came in the aftermath, which was totally a thing for us when we were in high school.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes, absolutely.

[Sean Fennesy]

Disturbing behavior. H20, the Halloween Legacyquel Urban Legend, Idle Hands, Cherry Falls. Teaching Mrs. Tingle. These movies.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Teaching Mrs. Tingle was also Katie Holmes, which was of the Dawson's Cream.

[Sean Fennesy]

There was a lot of connectivity. Teaching Mrs. Tingle was Kevin Williams's directorial debut. All of these movies, some of them are thrillers, some of them are pure horror, Some of them are horror comedy. Teaching Mrs. Tinkle is basically a comedy, but it was like a. It was a sub genre that was very fun. Invariably. Most of these movies kind of suck.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But we had a nice time.

[Sean Fennesy]

But we had fun. Yes, we were having a lot of fun. And whenever I'm like watching a really shitty Netflix streaming movie, I have to go back to the place where I saw Disturbing Behavior and be like, it's okay. They can have their shit.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

You know, like, I had my dumb shit that I like, too. I'm not going back to Disturbing Behavior anytime soon. But. But it was nice that we had that. Okay. A couple of other. Well, let's just talk about what's gonna make it okay, because there's a handful of very obvious ones in each segment. So. Scream.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. So Scream is standing in for all. Yeah. Scream is the defining. I still remember I was in my Aunt Betty's basement where I watched the Braves finally win the World Series.

[Sean Fennesy]

Talk about a horror movie.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And Scream, the original Scream. I was terrified out of my mind.

[Sean Fennesy]

Hell of a double feature for the freaks out there.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But like. And also two defining events of the 90s. So.

[Sean Fennesy]

Braves down so bad right now. It's the best.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I've renounced them, so I don't care.

[Sean Fennesy]

The fucking best.

[Amanda Dobbin]

And I've moved on.

[Sean Fennesy]

I got no beef with the people of Atlanta. Fuck the Braves. For real.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, you know, many of the people. Atlanta also now have no connection to the Braves because they moved to Cobb County.

[Sean Fennesy]

Check it out.

[Amanda Dobbin]

So that's fine.

[Sean Fennesy]

But Scream was totemic, an amazing.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's number one on this list, I would say.

[Sean Fennesy]

I think a movie that actually still holds up. Obviously, it's kind of. Of self awareness. It's kind of literally metastasizing. 20 years of slashers and regurgitating and clarifying what the rules are and how these. These movies work. I think taught a lot of people, myself included, how to watch movies.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

And that seems dumb, but if you. I saw it when I was 14 and it rocked my world. I loved it. I still think it's a lot of fun. I wanted to pay homage to those monster movies and this movie, which I assume you have not seen this one, but Wes Craven's New Nightmare, which was I think meant to be the final Freddy Krueger movie and is about the real people who made the Freddy Krueger movies and then Freddy entering that world. And it is also a similarly kind of metatextual examination of the work that we make and what really scares us. And these are two Wes Craven movies together stacked on top of each other. And Wes is getting to be a little bit forgotten right now. He passed away a few years ago. He and John Carpenter are probably the two single most important filmmakers of that era of the 80s and 90s for this genre. So I wanted to give some love to that movie. Blair Witch.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Did you see it in the movie theater?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I didn't. We rented it and saw it at home and I was still terrified out of my mind.

[Sean Fennesy]

Jack. Blair Witch Project. You've seen it? Yes. Very scary. I revisited it last night. Final 20 minutes have not lost its power. You've heard it before? I'm sure people heard it on the Rewatchables when Chris and Bill talked about it. I was 17. I don't know that I thought it was real, but it felt real enough. We didn't know people freaking out of the movie theater, people crying at the end of the movie. What just happened? Because a lot of people who weren't reading Entertainment Week who just showed up at the movie theater to see the sensation that night on opening night and you know, obviously probably the most important found footage movie ever made. One of the best things about that movie is that it actually really sticks to the rules of found footage. And whenever you start to question why it never really explores it so that there is a kind of like mystical unknown around why people keep filming during the worst thing that's ever happened to them that I think still really works very well. It's also 81 minutes and incredibly effective. Similarly to Scream, a movie that changed horror movies. So it has to be here now. I've got Bram Stoker's Dracula on here.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

What do you think about this?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, you know, at some point it's your list and I guess it does under like the rules of the genre and violence it follows. I think monsters in general. I know there's a long and storied history of it, but like eh, out on monsters. I just. I'm not that scared.

[Sean Fennesy]

Interesting.

[Amanda Dobbin]

You know.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. You're more afraid of a human with a knife.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Than A monster.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes, I am.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. I've got Bran Slicker Dracula on here because it's arguably the best made movie. Best made horror movie of that decade. Francis Ford Coppola with the most gorgeous production design. Score, costumes, you know, good. Really good performances, give or take a. Keanu Reeves, like, some. Some great. I know that's rude, but he's not. He's not good at it. But Oldman cooking up something amazing. The makeup design for that character is sick. And I think it's good to kind of recognize the importance of monsters to these movies.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I do understand historically, but it's just kind of like, you know, it's not their fault. They don't know what they're doing.

[Sean Fennesy]

The monsters don't know. Oh, you think they're tortured, like it's their trauma?

[Amanda Dobbin]

No, I mean, it's just. It's not that compelling to me.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. What about the Wolf man as an expression of dulled masculinity? You know, the. The. The Beast coming out.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I just. I, like, get a little bored. I'm like, work it out on your own time. What about.

[Sean Fennesy]

You know, you'll be seeing Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesy]

On the. On the Lido soon. And that's a story about.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Jacob Elordi, so I'm fine with it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, you know, man controlling nature.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Right. And. And. And making up for lost time. Right.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

And Mia Goth.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I. I'm excited to see it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

But in general, it just always seems like it's like a man who got a little bored and then created something that got out of his control. And I'm like, well, that's a you problem.

[Sean Fennesy]

You're saying Dr. Victor Frankenstein was an incel. Could have been. Could have been.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All right, if Geppetto is a fascist.

[Sean Fennesy]

So I wanted to choose between Hideo Nakata's ring and Takashi Miike's audition. Now, I know you've not seen either of these movies.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Ring, of course, is the basis for the Ring. The Gore verbinski smash from Whatever. 2002 ring is very upsetting. It's a movie about a videotape that if you watch it, seven days later, you die.

[Amanda Dobbin]

It's good conceit.

[Sean Fennesy]

Incredible conceit executed amazingly. This is a brilliant movie. It's not quite as unnerving as Audition, which is a movie about an older guy who's seeking love and is looking for a woman who can make him see the world anew. And he meets a woman, and the woman is not what he thought she was gonna be. And things go horribly about as horribly as you can imagine. Now I think you should watch this movie in part because it's clearly a big influence on our friend Mark Anthony Green's opus. And there is a sequence in it that is pulled very closely from Audition.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

I'm gonna give it to Ring because it came first. But these two movies, in terms of the new Japanese horror, which almost all of these movies with the exception of Audition got remade in America. And I think Ring is kind of the big bang of this stuff. So I'm gonna put it there.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

We're getting into like movies. Amanda hasn't seen territory, so just rock with me. Okay.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I've seen a couple more of these.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. In the MO of Madness is probably John Carpenter's last masterpiece, stars Sam Neill as a man going utterly insane and following the writings of a man named Sutter Kane, who's a Stephen King esque horror author who drives people mad with his visions of evil and the way that they want to follow his visions of evil.

[Amanda Dobbin]

If only he'd gone to therapy.

[Sean Fennesy]

There's shades of that. I don't think that line is uttered in the movie was just announced. This film will be released on 4K shortly.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. Congratulations.

[Sean Fennesy]

In my text chain we rejoiced.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Great. You go girl.

[Sean Fennesy]

Thank goodness. I felt good about it. Great film.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Do they have Bring it on on 4k? They do actually because Mallory's Adam just bought it and wanted me to know about it.

[Sean Fennesy]

Mallory's husband Adam.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah, yeah, they do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. Just wanted to make sure.

[Sean Fennesy]

Birthday's just a few days away. Amanda. Okay, next is Candyman.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, I don't think I've seen this, but I've seen many clips of it. Like I'm conversant.

[Sean Fennesy]

This is the rare pre scream horror movie that cracked through the subconscious at this time and stuck. Bernard Rose, English director, made this movie. Tony, the late, great Tony Todd. We just talked about this movie. That was a part of a trivia question in our Chicago movie draft. Set in the Cabrini Green projects starring Virginia Madsen. And if you didn't say Candyman three times or five times in the dark room while looking into a mirror, you weren't a teenager in the 90s. That was something that you were dared to do and still works. I don't love the Legacyquel remake that came out a few years ago from this movie, but the original still hits super hard. Event Horizon is for CR.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's beautiful.

[Sean Fennesy]

This is Paul W.S. anderson's, not Paul Thomas Anderson. Paul W.S. anderson's. Masterpiece. It's a movie about, well, lo and behold, Sam Neill losing his fucking mind on a spaceship. It's space horror. It's the lone sci fi horror in this movie. Some very upsetting images in this movie. I do not think you can watch this one, but it's wonderful, incredibly scary and holds its power. Exorcist 3.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Was chatting with Tracy and Chris about this list when we were in Chicago, and they both cited this as a pro. I thought this would be a good callback to the horror classics of the 70s and 80s. Now, Exorcist 2, starring, directed by John Boorman. Not good. Kind of incoherent.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Exorcist 3 features perhaps the great jump scare of the 1990s. Wow. So tell me, maybe we can watch it on YouTube together as soon as we're done recording this.

[Amanda Dobbin]

That's an X DVD extra podcast. Extra.

[Sean Fennesy]

Could be.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, could be.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay, last but not least, funny games.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. The German. Not the.

[Sean Fennesy]

Is this a horror movie? This is a home invasion thriller.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, things get gnarly.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yes. In the same conversation with Tracy, he said, this is the most scared I've ever been of a movie about two preppy tennis clad young men who enter a family's home and absolutely terrorize and brutalize them for an entire evening. For reasons that are unclear, I think.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yes. It has to be, because we're also counting like Speak no Evil as a horror movie. And that's very much in the tradition of definitely.

[Sean Fennesy]

And it fits the violence laws.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Just because they're preppy.

[Sean Fennesy]

Well, I think that's kind of the point. Who is really brutalizing our lives in modern society?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Was American Psycho part of this? I mean, it's 2000, so it's not eligible. But were we talking about that in this conversation?

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't think it came up. It would be an interesting. There's not really any satires on my list right now. I think Scream is probably as close as you can get. New Nightmare has some of that feeling too, but yeah, that's. I mean, it's definitely a contender.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

I don't know if I was really scared of American Psycho. I think I felt very on the wavelength of its humor when I saw it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesy]

There is something obviously very unnerving about it.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Right. And also like disgusted by. But the movie is also disgusted by what it's portraying.

[Sean Fennesy]

So, you know, obviously Brady Sinellis's novel, but a film directed by a woman, Mary Heron, and she has a pretty keen insight, I think, into what she's portraying. I'm going to give you my runners up.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Arachnophobia. I didn't do.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, my God. There are 30 movies on that. Are you just going to read a list of.

[Sean Fennesy]

Some of them are. I've already said.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

Army of Darkness.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesy]

I'm just. This is for the heads who are just like, but what about. But what about.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Sure, of course.

[Sean Fennesy]

Brain Dead. Peter Jackson's extremely gory horror comedy, Cemetery Man.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesy]

Starring your boy Rupert Everett. I think this is the movie that got him My best friend's Wedding job. The Craft.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah. This one I've seen, obviously.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, you know, I think the.

[Sean Fennesy]

Girlies are like, why won't you put the Craft on?

[Amanda Dobbin]

I don't think Charlie XX is going to come on our podcast now.

[Sean Fennesy]

It's good. I rewatched it. It's kind of in the I know what you did last summer vein where.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I'm like, it's fun, but you're. I just. I think that you are looking that. Yeah. You're a snob and you value different things.

[Sean Fennesy]

I've heard that before. I've really. I've heard it before. Speaking of Guillermo del Toro. Kronos, his first movie. I think this is really, really good. Death becomes her. Kind of a horror comedy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Yeah, but like, more comedy.

[Andy Greenwald]

More comedy.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Did you know it's now a musical on Broadway?

[Sean Fennesy]

I did. Tony winning, I believe.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, really?

[Sean Fennesy]

I think so.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Congratulations to that.

[Sean Fennesy]

It looks quite elaborate. I would watch that, you know, for my birthday. I got tickets to go see. What am I going to see? It's one of the August Wilson plays that's playing in Pasadena. Is it Joe Turner's Come and Gone?

[Amanda Dobbin]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Fennesy]

Yeah. Which I'm pretty excited about. That's cool. Yeah. That was my gift for my wife. I love Joe. The theater. Well, again, I keep bringing up Tracy. Cause we were talking about this a lot. Cause he obviously is a man of the theater. And I don't really go as much in Los Angeles as I used to in New York. In New York, I was in the theater. I was going to see shows all the time. So this year I'm gonna try to a little a fewer movies and more stage productions. That would make me happy. The faculty. It isn't actually good. Obviously. It has some pieces of sinners. Coogler cited this movie a couple times in his press tour for Sinners. I rewatched it and was a little disappointed. Ghostwatch is a British movie that I only recently saw for the first time, but is incredibly influential. Encourage people to check that out. The two Tales from the Crypt movies, Demon Knight and Bordell of Blood. They both rock. Tales from the Crypt. I watched it every weekend on HBO when I was a little kid. I loved it. Larry Fessenden's Habit, just for the indie heads. A couple more. Leprechaun. It's fucking terrible. Stars Jennifer Aniston. But it was a thing that kind of.

[Amanda Dobbin]

I mean, I remember it.

[Sean Fennesy]

There was a Night of the Living Dead remake that Tom Savini made in 1990. People under the Stairs. Also a Wes Craven movie that's a movie about racism. Still holds stir of echoes. David Kepp, your favorite Jurassic park screenwriter, hit one of his. I think it might be his. I think it's his second film after the Trigger Effect. A really effective horror movie with Kevin Bacon that I think you actually would enjoy. And then Tremors, which is a movie about giant monsters living under the ground that start eating up a desert town.

[Amanda Dobbin]

All right.

[Sean Fennesy]

Also stars Kevin Bacon and Fred Ward.

[Amanda Dobbin]

Okay. You feel good? Read your list.

[Sean Fennesy]

Okay. My top 10 is as Scream, Wes Craven's new nightmare, the Blair Witch Project, Bram Stoker's Dracula Ring in the Mouth of Madness, Candyman, Event Horizon, The Exorcist 3, and Funny Games, the German version.

[Amanda Dobbin]

1997, much like its remake. You are being disrespectful to I Know what yout Did Last Summer. But that's okay. Okay. Otherwise, I bless this list.

[Sean Fennesy]

Thank you. I appreciate your support. You're so welcome in this effort. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Later this week, we're breaking down a pair of summer comedies. Maybe we'll make another canon while we're at it. The Naked Gun and the recently released Happy Gilmore 2. I've seen both. And we might have a special guest from the Ringer joining us. We'll see you then. Sa.