The 2025 Golden Globes: ‘The Brutalist’ and ‘Emilia Pérez’ Usher in a New Era

Summary

Summary of The Big Picture Podcast Episode: "The 2025 Golden Globes: ‘The Brutalist’ and ‘Emilia Pérez’ Usher in a New Era"

Release Date: January 6, 2025

In this episode of The Big Picture, hosts Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins, alongside guest Joanna Robinson, dissect the nuances of the 2025 Golden Globes. They explore the ceremony's shift in tone, notable winners, standout performances, and the broader implications for the awards season.

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1. Overall Impressions of the Golden Globes

The hosts begin by evaluating the Golden Globes' transformation from its traditional, flamboyant persona to a more serious and art-centric award show.

Sean Fennessey [03:19]:
"The Golden Globes as the three of us have talked about many times over the years, are, while very notable and glitzy, kind of a joke... Now this is an award show where a vast collection of international and arthouse performers are given very stately prizes and deliver sincere speeches about the greatness of their works and the potential for art."

Amanda shares her personal enjoyment of the event but notes a lack of the usual Hollywood camaraderie and vibrant interactions.

Amanda Dobbins [03:43]:
"I had a good time... as almost always, the presenters were hit and miss and mostly miss, with a few times of me heckling the large screen asking them to wrap it up."

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2. Key Wins: ‘The Brutalist’ and ‘Emilia Pérez’

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the unexpected victories of The Brutalist and Emilia Pérez, analyzing their impact on the awards landscape.

Sean Fennessey [10:30]:
"Emilia Perez is a movie that... it's an idea that if it is resonating with voters... it makes sense."

Joanna reflects on the momentum behind Emilia Pérez, questioning its broad appeal but acknowledging its persistent presence in award circuits.

Joanna Robinson [09:51]:
"I've been trying to catch up as a civilian... it's a very interesting situation we find ourselves in."

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3. Notable Performances and Presenters

The hosts critique various presenters and their performances, highlighting both successes and missteps. Nikki Glaser’s hosting is lauded, while other segments receive mixed reviews.

Joanna Robinson [07:04]:
"I thought Nikki was great... Seth Rogen called out the extremely terrible up close camera angle presenter situation that was in the room, which I loved."

Amanda praises Demi Moore and Zoe Saldana’s emotional speeches, emphasizing their impact.

Amanda Dobbins [11:42]:
"Demi Moore got a big moment with her acceptance speech, which was... really the speech of the night."

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4. Changes in the Golden Globes' Format

The conversation delves into structural changes in the Golden Globes, such as the introduction of pop-up maps and reduced camera movement, which the hosts feel detract from the event's usual vibrancy.

Joanna Robinson [07:04]:
"They added this year where they did the little pop up map of where everyone was sitting was deeply uninteresting and didn't add anything to the enjoyment."

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5. Impact on Awards Season and Oscar Predictions

Sean and Amanda analyze how the Golden Globes' outcomes might influence Oscar predictions, especially with the wins of The Brutalist and Emilia Pérez diverging from traditional favorites like Wicked.

Sean Fennessey [10:21]:
"I thought that Wicked would win... but this has dispelled that. I'm still trying to sort out if that means anything at all."

They discuss the potential for these wins to shift narratives and momentum within the awards season, noting the uncertain implications.

Matt Bellany [67:18]:
"Costume, makeup and hairstyling, production design, like you're gonna. All that. It's gonna be on down the line. It's probably gonna get six or seven, maybe even nine nominations."

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6. Host's Comments and Humor

Throughout the episode, the hosts infuse humor and personal anecdotes, particularly about mishaps and lighter moments during the ceremony. They joke about actors like Hugh Grant and Vin Diesel, adding levity to their critique.

Matt Bellany [05:03]:
"Do you think Emilia Perez is just coming for everything that isn't Demi Moore."

Amanda Dobbins [23:00]:
"What do you think a girdle does? We're in perilously close to holding my arms in front of me territory."

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7. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sean Fennessey [03:19]:
  "The Golden Globes... are, while very notable and glitzy, kind of a joke... Now this is an award show where a vast collection of international and arthouse performers are given very stately prizes."

• Amanda Dobbins [03:43]:
  "I had a good time... the presenters were ... mostly miss..."

• Joanna Robinson [07:04]:
  "They added this year where they did the little pop up map of where everyone was sitting was deeply uninteresting and didn't add anything to the enjoyment."

• Amanda Dobbins [11:42]:
  "Demi Moore got a big moment with her acceptance speech, which was... really the speech of the night."

• Matt Bellany [67:00]:
  "Vin Diesel presenting the cinematic box office achievement... he was kind of victorious in that moment."

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8. Closing Thoughts

In their concluding remarks, the hosts reflect on the Golden Globes' reception, acknowledging its attempts to evolve while expressing skepticism about the sustainability of its new direction. They anticipate continued debates as the awards season progresses, especially with the uncertainty surrounding the Oscar outcomes following the Golden Globes.

Joanna Robinson [66:37]:
"It's a little bit hard to say. I think, obviously, we'll learn a lot more as we get SAG, PGA, DGA, and then BAFTA's winnows down its list."

Amanda Dobbins [79:11]:
"What's the takeaway? Emilia Perez is just is. Is coming for everything that isn't Demi Moore."

Through their candid and humorous analysis, Sean, Amanda, and Joanna provide listeners with a thorough critique of the 2025 Golden Globes, highlighting both its strides towards a more serious and art-focused ceremony and the challenges it faces in maintaining audience engagement and relevance in today's rapidly evolving entertainment landscape.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Matt Bellany]

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Podcast, the Town on the Ringer Podcast network.

[Matt Bellany]

My name is Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Writer of the what I'm Hearing newsletter.

[Matt Bellany]

And with my show the Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week we've got three short episodes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you.

[Matt Bellany]

What people in town are actually talking about.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We'll cover everything from why your favorite.

[Matt Bellany]

Show was canceled overnight, which streamer is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

On the brink of collapse, and which.

[Matt Bellany]

Executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who'll eat lunch in this town again, Follow the Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's the best time of day to get a deal? All day with Jack in the Box's all day big deal meal. You get to choose from four entrees like the supreme croissant and five tasty sides, plus a drink starting at $5. So hurry in or take your time. You've got all day at Jack. Every bite's a big deal. I'm Sean Fennessy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is the.

[Matt Bellany]

Big Picture A conversation show about the Golden Globes. We are joined on Hollywood's second biggest night by Joanna Robinson, who has been helping us recap the Golden Globes and the awards race all season long. Hijo.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hi. I'm thrilled to have Amanda back for this particular night, especially the one of the wildest. This is the most Hollywood being its most ridiculous self night, and who better but Amanda, to share this moment with us.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When Joanna showed up on the screen, I started talking to her as if I had been seeing her regularly for the last three months, which I have in my head. I've been listening, but I realized that this is the first time I'm actually seeing you via screen anyway since I left. So thank you. You've been doing a wonderful job. I'm thrilled to be here with you to be able to share hot takes in person. And do we have hot takes or do we just have confusion?

[Matt Bellany]

Well, I think we have a confirmation of a new era of the Golden Globes, which is how I'd like to talk about this show with you guys. Well, it matters to what we do for a living when we talk about this stuff, right? I don't know that I emotionally care, but it is not notable that things feel, if not radically different, they feel a little different than they have in the past. The Golden Globes as the three of us have talked about many times over the years, are, while very notable and glitzy, kind of a joke, they're kind of a silly award show. They're the award show where the celebrities get drunk and they have really mean hosts who make fun of people that make us plebs at home feel better about ourselves. That's the wild and silly show where 80 people who don't live in this country, you know, hobnob with celebrities and then they give them big gold statues. And now this is an award show where a vast collection of international and arthouse performers are given very stately prizes and deliver sincere speeches about the greatness of their works and the potential for art. That's not the Golden Globes. That isn't what they do. So this does feel different. Let me start by asking you this. Did you think it was a good show tonight?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I had a good time, but that is also because I, A, like awards shows and B, am really happy to be among the land of adults. I just. Thank you so much for having me. As previously documented on this podcast, I learned who Nikki Glaser was on Thursday, that said, alive on the podcast. Just doing some Googling.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thought she was very funny. I chuckled at many of her jokes. I thought that the presenters were, as almost as always, the case, hit and miss and mostly miss, with a few times of me heckling the large screen asking them to wrap it up. But funny moments. The presenters were also kind of a lot of the star power of the show, which is, I guess, the case at most awards shows. But I didn't feel like I got that much people mingling and mixing.

[Matt Bellany]

That's true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

At the Golden Globes. I, they, they had the interstitials. There was some hobnobbing, but there was no Taylor Swift and Selena Gomez exchanging gossip with 14 cameras on them like there was last year, for example. So there was just a lot of Hugh Grant and Jeremy Strong being seated at the same table right behind one of the presenting modules.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, you're number one boy, and me and Joanne is number one boy together.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I am concerned about Hugh Grant's back because he very politely was turned around 180 degrees in his seat for every single award your man doesn't miss. But also, like, he's getting on in age.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I, I don't know whether I.

[Matt Bellany]

Think maybe he had a girdle on. How do you think he was handling?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I mean it. What do you think a girdle does?

[Matt Bellany]

I don't know, like, do you, like, we're at the top of the show. Let's not, let's. I gotta ask Joanna what she thought about the show. Just, you know, let's just simmer down so it's okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. Joanna, what did you think?

[Matt Bellany]

What did you think, Joanna, did you like the show?

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought these are some of the worst presenter bits I've ever seen in all my years covering award shows. I thought Nikki was great. I thought her bits were actually great. And I hate a host bit, but I thought all of hers worked really well. I thought the monologue was like, not the best I've ever seen, but really good. And I thought, you know, we had a brief respite from the most embarrassing bits from presenters when Seth rogen and Katherine O'Hara came up and their bit actually worked and Seth Rogen called out the extremely terrible up close camera angle presenter situation that was in the room, which I loved. So, yeah, I had an okay time, a much better time in the back half when we got some genuine surprises. And to your point, Sean, they weren't surprises of like, that's the Globes being wacky. It's like that's the Globes asserting itself as an international voting body and just like really pivoting strong European flavor in some of their surprise wins. So, yeah, I liked it. I didn't love it. And to Amanda's point, I do think we used to get more just cameras roaming around the room. I think the thing they added this year where they did the little pop up map of where everyone was sitting was deeply uninteresting and didn't add anything to the enjoyment. And I think we're gonna have to wait for the in the room gossip from the reporters that were in the room to give us who was talking to whom, sort of that we usually get from those milling around the audience glimpses at the Globes. The Globes are just nonsense. And so the celebrity nonsense is part of the enjoyment or it should be.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. It didn't seem like anyone was having that much fun. But again, maybe it was just the cameras were not focused on that.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I felt like the first hour there was a kind of dead air quality to a lot of the presentation. I think the Globes, obviously it's a television and film awards. We'll focus our conversations on the film winners tonight. But because of that, it's a very long show. It's got a lot of awards to give out. It's difficult to even fit bits in between the awards. There were mercifully no musical performances, but you're right that the kind of like atmospheric quality of the show was significantly reduced. I also think that we're in an interesting transitional stage, star wise, where we do have this very exciting young crop, some of whom were nominated tonight. You know, Zendaya was nominated tonight, Timothee Chalamet was nominated tonight. They didn't speak, they didn't come on stage. There were jokes made at their expense or very warmly at their expense and the camera panned to them from time to time. But the show wasn't really about them and I don't know that it was really about anything. If you're looking for like a big theme, we can talk about what the actual awards wins mean, if anything. Historically, they don't usually mean a lot, the Globes, but it's notable to me that we're not quite in the like Meryl clapping and pointing era. We're not in the Jack Nicholson front row nodding as the mayor of Hollywood era. There's something, you know, as we all transition through the streaming experience and more people being interested in tiktokers than people who open movies. There's something unsettled about modern award shows right now. And I could feel it watching this one.

[Joanna Robinson]

For the most part it felt very geriatric. Like the star power that was there was like and like with love and respect to our older stars. But a lot of them, you know, like Michael Keaton or Sharon Stone or a number of the people who went up to speak, some of them were like struggling through, you know, reading, reading the prompts.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We, Michael, whatever, Michael Keaton nail every moment of his presentation.

[Matt Bellany]

Joanna Amanda started tearing her clothes off and throwing herself at the screen.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When Michael Sheeton appeared is, is really handling his later years with grace.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I thought I already completely disrode when Andrew Garfield took the stage. I didn't know that there was like an article of clothing left.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We'll get there. Put a pin in Andrew Garfield and Joanna and I are going to go.

[Matt Bellany]

Through how many would like to put a pin in Andrew Garfield.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it felt the star power on stage, felt older and not even like that old, but like Salma Hayek's here looking incredible with gray streaks in her hair. But like these are the stars of yesteryear are on the stage and then even the awards that are going out are not anointing a new crop of like dewy eyed stars which the gold Globes used to like to do, sort of stake a claim on a new young actor or Actress. So, yeah, it's a very interesting situation we find ourselves in.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, every year at the Globes, there are two best film winners. There's musical or comedy and drama. This year was. We have an interesting crop. I asked you at the end of our last episode, how many films would be nominated for best picture from drama and how many would be nominated for musical or comedy. I also asked you what would come first and what would come second in a telecast this year. They closed the show with musical or comedy, which is what I thought would happen. And I thought that Wicked would win because of this and have a big triumphal hooray for Hollywood kind of a moment.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but that's the. That's the Steven Soderbergh, and we do. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Matt Bellany]

That did not happen. That did not. Emelia Perez.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We don't reorder based on expectations.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And you know, Amelia Perez is a movie. We've talked about it quite a bit, Joanna, in the last few months. It's a movie that obviously is doing extremely well during award season. We saw it do extremely well at the Oscar shortlist, did well BAFTA shortlisting, and it's won here. It won a couple of awards tonight. And I. I thought either Wicked or Nora were really the only options. And this has dispelled that. I'm still trying to personally sort out if that means anything at all. You know, you mentioned the international voting body power, Joanna. I think that that's a factor here. When we look at Best actress in a drama, you can also see that as a factor pretty significantly. But I was surprised I picked Wicked. And if it was not going to be Wicked, I thought an aura for sure. What was your reaction to the Emilia Perez win?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Huh. But also, there were indicators throughout the night. I mean, Jack Odiard did win for international international feature. Zoe Taldania won for supporting actress and then sort of won for El Mal, the original song. Or at least she got up on the stage for part of the. Absolutely endless acceptance for what was original song at the Golden Globes. So the momentum was there. And I just, as you said, Emilia Perez or Perez, which everybody switched on the emphasis, I guess. If we're speaking in the original language, we're honoring the accent. If we're speaking in the English language, we're not.

[Matt Bellany]

Sharon Stone, I think, was using the French language because she read that it was the French submission.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right, sure. You know, listen, we're all international now. It's. It has been on every list, everything. It has been incredibly persistent. So I wasn't that surprised. I think I was more surprised than Anora. Totally blanked.

[Matt Bellany]

It did not a single win for Anora tonight.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Wicked. You could tell from the acceptance carnival for box office achievement. Yeah. And it reminded me a little bit of I can't remember which awards show last year gave some sub tier win to Barbie. I think like Barbie won best comedy or something. And then there was a very long acceptance speech and I think it was.

[Matt Bellany]

For cinematic achievement, was it not? Didn't Barbie win cinematic achievement?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I'm. I have no sources here. I'm wondering if these individuals get tipped off that it's the only time they're going to be on stage because both circumstances have been a. This is my moment to give a speech.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, for John especially, I think they hand it over to John because he's like been so blanked in. However, like Wicked is being received and we all know that's not true about Wicked, but like said that he was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The best director of the year, but that John.

[Joanna Robinson]

That John is not going to get an award anywhere and that if he's gonna get a chance to give a speech, it's gonna be here. And that was the sense of that.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wasn't surprised by Emilia Perez winning again because they nominated it so many times. I didn't really necessarily want it. I'm glad it won international. I didn't necessarily want it to win because I feel very mixed about the film itself. And I think there is a weird. I just, I don't. I haven't talked to a lot of people who like this film, so I don't understand why it keeps rolling along. Zoe Saldana winning makes a lot of sense to me for other reasons, but there is almost this just sort of like, you know, rolling downhill momentum of Emilia Perez that does not feel connected to anyone's emotion about that movie. You can make an emotional connection case for the Brutalists, certainly for Wicked, for Anora. You know, I've talked to people who love both inside the industry and out who love those movies, and I'm just having a hard time finding people who love Emilia Perez and think it's the film of the year outside of people who work for Netflix.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. You know, while we were watching the show after this win, you said to me, what is this movie really about? What is the message of this movie? What was the artistic intention of this movie? And like, you can take it apart. I have a fairly cynical and ungenerous reading of the movie. The way the movie Works, but that it's a movie about, like, not burying your inner self, right. And becoming the self you always were meant to be, to become a better and more fully realized person. Which I think is an idea that if it is resonating with voters for the Golden Globes or voters for the Academy Awards or BAFTA or whatever body, whatever group of artists are voting on this especially, I think that makes sense. I think it's a very similar story for the Brutalist, which is a movie that maybe has a completely different emotional reputation. And obviously, I have made exceptional light of the Brutalist boys gag here. But I think what you saw tonight in this film winning a bunch of awards, winning, frankly, the three historically big male awards. The best film for drama, best director, and best male actor in a drama. Very sincere people, you know, who are very sincere about art, sort of achingly and perhaps ridiculously sincere. But like, the two movies, actually, when you put them next to each other, even though they have basically nothing in common, superficially, they're about this kind of, like, belief in something that people like us tend to turn our noses up at, you know, that we tend to be, like, a little bit above. And I find it interesting that, like, something like Wicked or even something like Conclave, which is such a confection, it's such a Hollywood Pete product. You know, it's a good Hollywood product, but it's a very Hollywood product. Classical.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was the basis for many, many jokes tonight. Funny jokes, including I'm Popular, which even I got. That was funny. Good job. Nikki Glaser, certainly tonight and then throughout this season, you know, I mean, a conclave is applicable to so many things, but there is something that people can latch onto with it.

[Matt Bellany]

Yes. Just think of the meal Billy Crystal would have made of Conclave. I mean, he really would have soared with cardboard material.

[Joanna Robinson]

When she was doing popular, I got like. Which was not. Which was a good bit because she, you know, lampshaded that. It was a bad bit, but, like, I got such strong Billy Crystal nostalgia. It made me really hurt and miss him and that era. I think, to your point about earnest messaging, something that, you know, we were talking about a little bit as the award show was going on, something we've talked about before the awards show, something everyone says that the Golden Globes is a really good chance to, like, audition for your Oscar or cement your narrative. Like, Kieran Culkin has been the only main frontrunner. And while the Globes, even in their new era, are not indicative necessarily of any wins at the Oscar, they are A chance for, you know, a gangbusters acceptance speech to sort of turn the tide. And I think there are, like, you know, a few that. That we've already, you know, talked about off pod that we'll talk on pod. But I think what Brady said about the brutalist and setting up the brutalist now in a way that Sean has been for a while as, like, a battle for the soul of Hollywood, essentially, like a vote for the brutalists is a vote for the director's cut, I think, is. I don't think it was cynically done, but I think it was effectively done. And similarly, Emilia Perez, like, comes out as this, you know, staring down the barrel of a Trump administration moment in Hollywood. And is this gonna stand as a reaction to that in some way? So that idea of, like, messaging and positioning the larger narrative, which has just become increasingly important, you know, over the years as we've all. All three of us have been covering the awards race, this idea of, like, what's the story here? What's the narrative for this win? Kieran doesn't have one, and. But he's already a lock, so that's fine. But Adrien Brody had to create one, and he did. Demi Moore got a chance to create one. Zoe Saldana got a chance to create one. And so that. That's what. That's what the Golden Globes, in this larger awards conversation is you two will continue to have really effectively does.

[Matt Bellany]

What do you make of the Brutalist win? You haven't seen it? Obviously you're seeing it this week.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. I was about to give away what day.

[Matt Bellany]

Feel free.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you excited? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, are you apprehensive?

[Matt Bellany]

I'll drop a pin and share it on Twitter.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you to the big picture community who has been reporting back on their experience at the Vista. And I, Joanna, I have to say I'm mostly anxious about the line and how long one has to wait in line at the Vista while having already purchased a ticket to get in. So that's kind of where I am right now. And I feel like whatever's going on with the bathroom lines should also be applied to outside the theater. That's what I think. That's just one woman advocating for all of us.

[Matt Bellany]

I'll speak to the committee that organizes movie theater lines on your behalf.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you for championing women, Amanda. Always.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, definitely.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Here we are just doing my. No, you know, I'm curious. It is. And I've been trying so hard to avoid media about it, both because I don't want it to Be spoiled. And also because, you know, there's a certain flavor to some of it that I think could turn me off. And I. And I don't want to do that. I would like to go in with as open a mind as I can for someone who absolutely loathed the film Vox Lux. But tonight, I. It didn't put me off, actually. The three wins. And, you know, it was, like, teetering on the edge and even, you know, final cut, tie, like, director, whatever. I was like, oh, no, we're going to a bad place. But it came back to a point of real sincerity. I mean, the inclusion of the daughter who looks exactly like him and her little face just in the frame for the. I mean, the crying during my heart was going to. It was beautiful. Like, I. Like, you know, I.

[Matt Bellany]

The. The girl. Dad jumped right out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm a manicure. And I was totally moved. It was. It was great. And then when it won best drama, the. The way the acceptance frame panned out, she was just, like, right there in the corner looking just like him. And I was like, okay, this is coming from, like, a real place, so my heart's still open, you know?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. I mean, it's a tricky one, right, Because I think all movies, we have preconceived notions, right? And this one in particular, I think, has done an amazing job of having a narrative around it, around its length, which we heard from the announcer who is probably still talking right now, the guy who is announcing after the winds of the Golden Globes. Golden Globes producers. If you're listening to this episode, never again that producer who. That. That person who talks when someone wins. Cut that out. We don't need that. We don't want that. No one wants to hear factoids while someone walks to the podium. Do not do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Creating moment of famous person. But sometimes they get a. Didn't they have, like. They had a famous person do it one year, and it was, like, actually kind of entertaining. I want to. Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Matt Bellany]

It was like Patrick Harris, like, it doesn't. We don't need that. Joanna. Make a moment of quietude before the speech. That's the whole point of award shows. Trick us into thinking this matters. And it's not a fucking episode of you don't know Jack.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I. I can't let Sean's awards show bible, like, draw me in right now. We'll get to it later. I don't disagree with you on this. I didn't. I didn't think that those comments were very good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sean. There was a Bird fact about Nicholas Cage.

[Matt Bellany]

That was good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Pop up video for a video of the 90s.

[Matt Bellany]

Geodesic dome. That his?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Matt Bellany]

What kind of bird was it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was a crow, I believe.

[Matt Bellany]

Thank you, Jack. It was a crow. His pet crow. First of all, Nick Cage, you're the real one. Thank you, Nick Cage.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Matt Bellany]

Dispense with all of the crows. I don't want any of that stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Geodesic dome.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Hugin Hougin. Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

Hugin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, according to Google. But this is not, I mean, crow's name. But that's also what I got when I googled Crow Hoover. So I don't know whether I'm misleading.

[Matt Bellany]

No, it is Hoover. The crow's name was Hoover.

[Amanda Dobbins]

According to Rolling Stone. Right now it's Hoogan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Whatever.

[Matt Bellany]

This is what happens when media is eroded in the way that it has been. We can't even figure out Crow's name. This is shameful.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The thing about the voiceover which you said in the moment, besides it being not good, was describing the Brutalist as a three and a half hour epic with an intermission and, you know, and the very, very solemn three wins tonight for the Brutalist made me, Amanda Dobbins, a. A professional film watcher who's like, probably derelict in her job for not having seen it yet excited to see the movie. Does it make anyone else in the United States of America excited to see this film? I don't know.

[Matt Bellany]

One of the things that Brady said that I thought was interesting in his second speech was as he was valorizing Final Cut and talking about the intention of empowering filmmakers is he used the phrase, it worked. Like, my movie worked, my plan worked. Which was if. If looked at in one direction, you could be like, wow, this guy's really full of himself. If you looked at another direction, you'd be like, this movie just made a million dollars on like eight screens in a week, and now it's probably going to make north of $10 million, if not more at the box office just in this country. Which to his point, that is a movie like this working? And I think it's not dissimilar from the sentiments that were shared by Cord Jefferson at the Academy Awards last year, right when he was like, there's a middle ground. There's a $20 million movie, there's a $30 million movie. Let's not forget about these movies. I think he was really more in the spirit of that ultimately than, I'm a genius and should be always given final cut.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't think he was Saying I'm a genius. I think it reminded me of the conversations that have been bubbling around Nosferatu or Complete Unknown, like the successes that we've seen at the end of the year with strong visions from directors that we know and love and who have been sort of building and building and building a resume. And Brady Courbet is not exactly that yet, though this has certainly anointed him into a new level. But I think that was the idea is just sort of like, let artists be artists. And even at the Golden Globes, where we gave out a box office award to Wicked, we can still have genuine artists win across the board here. And like, similarly, like something like Shogun, which, Which, yes. I mean, we're not here to talk about television, but like there or Baby Reindeer was like the sentiment, like, this is a sentiment of like, this wasn't expected to be as massive as it was, but we were allowed to do, to execute our vision. And in a Hollywood that is increasingly terrified to let artists be artists, like that, that seemed to be the emerging message of the night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally. And I agree with all of it. And I. When I say that I don't know how broad of an appeal it had. I didn't mean believing in filmmakers. I just meant a three and a half hour small indie art house movie. And you know that that applies to the Brutalist, but sort of across the board for the wins, which, you know, I think we like a lot of the wins. It's very cool that, that a lot of these smaller films are, are being recognized. But if you're tuning in and you're not a devoted listener of this show or a devoted letterbox user, are you.

[Matt Bellany]

Are.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Are you connecting?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I want to say two things. Number one, Amanda, I just want to let you know, and maybe I've already expressed it on this podcast, I don't love the Brutalist. I like thinking about the Brutalist and I like that it exists and I like how much Sean likes the Brutalist. I like that for him. But like, I personally am not enamored of the. I thought Adrien Brody was really good. I'm really curious to hear what you think about it. So I'm not saying, like, it's a perfect film and anyone who says it isn't is. Is wrong. But to your point about doing. Do we have to appeal to the masses?

[Matt Bellany]

We.

[Joanna Robinson]

We want everyone to go to this. The movies. This is like, we love the movies. We want everyone to go. But I think this is the conversation. I know that you and Sean have been Having. And like all of us who've been covering awards have been having for years, which is like, yeah, we want a Top Gun Maverick nominated. We want people to like, get excited. But like, or is that era over? And should we just lean into, you know, honoring the movies that really say something and do something and not worry about, well, what will the wide appeal? Because the massive. Everyone's tuning into the Academy Awards moment seems to be, I feel like, gone forever. We're not getting it back. So instead of trying to grasp at it, should we just lean into Emilia Perez and the Brutalists, et cetera, et cetera, you know?

[Matt Bellany]

Well, just to that point, then let me just say the names of the films that won awards tonight, because I think you're pointing out something insightful here. Amanda. Emilia Perez. A real pain. Conclave. Emilio Perez again. The substance. A Different man. Flo, the Brutalist. Challengers, Emilia Perez again. Wicked, which was a box office win. I'm still here. The Brutalist. The Brutalist and emilia Perez. So.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So 8. 24. A 24. A 24. A 24 dot Netflix. Netflix. A 24.

[Matt Bellany]

Setting aside the original score win for the. For challengers is Conclave, the highest grossing film and maybe the substance is the highest grossing film in this list.

[Joanna Robinson]

It might be.

[Matt Bellany]

You know, that's kind of fascinating.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Now, obviously this is not voted on by a very large body. It's only 300 or so people that are voting and they're mostly journalists and critics. They don't represent what SAG does or DGA or BAFTA or any of these other bodies that we'll see in the next two months. But it's fascinating that for this big fancy TV show that like fucking Flo won. Flo Rules. Tiny Latvian animated series.

[Joanna Robinson]

A win for Cat People.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Which is up against a Pixar billion dollar movie. And the Wild Robot, which is a big sensation. And Wallace and Gromit, which is one of the most celebrated animated like story types like that we've had in the last 30 years. And fucking flow Won. So this is the Globes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But it's the New Globes.

[Matt Bellany]

It's quite strange.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the New Globes. And like, Amanda's right, of course, Amanda's right. Perfectly. And it's a great point. But I guess my question is, should I. I'm kind of tired of worrying about that.

[Matt Bellany]

I. I'm not worried. I do think it is extremely notable, though, in part because last year, I don't know if this is going to be true this year, but last year the Template felt very set, but the globes more or less exactly predicted the Academy Awards. And if this is the Academy Awards this year, I'm going to be like, yo, the thing that we have been talking about and saying, like, oh, well, we got to keep people involved and how do we get back to 40 million people? Like, then we're. The book is closed on that conversation. Like, close, close. Like, we don't. We shouldn't even. I shouldn't even bring it up to you anymore.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I want to be clear. Don't put it in the newspaper that I'm mad. I'm not concerned. But, you know, I will say this is an interesting awards year because for the last three months, when the season really starts heating up, I, like, I have been on the sidelines and I have been catching up and sort of participating as a civilian and listening to you guys and trying to catch up. But I. So I do feel like I'm coming to it slightly more as, like, a civilian. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And a woman of the people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Many people are saying, sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Speaking for everyone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. A populist.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not that I feel turned off. I'm just a little like, huh, okay. You know, and I. And I thought that that feeling was because it has been such a scattered awards year, and I think it was a scattered movie year. You know, like, we all had our things that we really loved, but there hasn't really been a center and. Or maybe because I was like, well, when I catch up, I'll understand, but maybe it's just kind of a strange year, and that's okay. And, like, it doesn't, you know, the Golden Globes will live or on and the Oscars will as well. But it's. It's a.

[Matt Bellany]

It's a little strange. It is a strange year. It's, of course, a strange year post strikes. And there are a number of other factors that are contributing to it. I think one thing that is probably worth citing, and of course, I'm always in some sort of doomsaying mode because I'm inherently negative as a person. But just because we're awarding, can we.

[Joanna Robinson]

Get you a girdle? D. Would that help?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Or like, literally, what do you think a girdle does?

[Matt Bellany]

We're in perilously close to holding my arms in front of me territory. So it was. Yeah, I better not say what movie. Well, I just watched a movie, and someone was saying that they. Oh, I think it was Nick Holt had to wear a girdle. No, Aaron Taylor Johnson wore a girdle every Day during the production of Nosferatu, because it was meant to show the posture that a man of his stature in that time period should have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or was he trying to gain just a little bit more height to get closer to Nicholas Holt?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, well, he should have gotten lifts to make that happen because he was a solid 5 inches below. Um, we. Stan. Nicholas Holt, our favorite. We love Joanna. Um, okay, so the thing that can happen is, fine, Jack Nicholson, he's gone. Meryl Streep, Denzel, that's never coming back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Denzel was in the room tonight. They showed him for, like, one second during his category.

[Matt Bellany]

Let's. We know that era is over, right? We're in a different time. Netflix has all this spending power streaming has messed with movies people don't like, don't care about movies as much as they did even 10 years ago. It's all settled. What still will happen, which is, of course, the foolishness of award shows. And all of our investment in them is that they'll award smaller films and, in theory, better films, but then they'll also just give their big prize to Amelia Perez. And, like, so that's a movie that nobody saw and nobody Joanna knows or I know, think is good. So then you're like, all right, so we're obscure, but we're also not giving Anora or the brutalist, the best Picture either, You know, so there. It's a. It's a bit of a conundrum in terms of justifying its own existence when the films are small and bad. I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen at Academy Awards if Amelia Perez wins Best Picture. I'm not going to be pumped.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll be so confused. I'll not. I'll be confused. And I guess I will just have to eat my words that I said on this podcast several weeks ago about Netflix never crossing the fact that they would cross the finish line with Amelia Perris.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Totally.

[Joanna Robinson]

And not all the other great films that have almost gotten there for them in the previous years. Roma or like, Mank or whatever the case may be.

[Matt Bellany]

It goes back to the spirit that you were conjuring while Amanda was out, though, Joanna, which is that if it does win, it is that international thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it is.

[Matt Bellany]

Jacques Odillard, who is a widely acclaimed French filmmaker who's won the Palme d'or. And you know who I said while we were watching the show? I'm like, this guy's made some great movies. I can't believe this is going to be the movie that he's going to get celebrated for in America.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it is. It is on Netflix, where it is available just widely to everyone immediately. So in some ways, it's like a proof of distribution as much as anything. I mean, I will also be surprised. I think we got one step closer to Zoe Saldana performing El Mal at the Oscars tonight. And I. You all know how I feel about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I'm pro that, especially if she, like, what if she stands on, like, the chairs like, you know, she does in the film? She stands on the tables. What if she goes out into the audience and starts pointing at the people in the audience?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think it would. It would be better if she did it with choreography than if she just stood on the stage and performed it. Because I would say, despite the very handsome couple who won a Golden Globe tonight, songwriting is not one of Emilia Perez's strengths.

[Matt Bellany]

That was the other moment when Amanda completely disrobed during the telecast was when Clement Ducaul.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, that's the other. There were several other moments I did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Listen, how many layers did you bring for the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're a very handsome French couple. You know, they just showed up.

[Joanna Robinson]

She had great hair. She had, like, great European hair.

[Matt Bellany]

She had French lady hair for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Trent and Atticus one, I was so excited.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was dancing. And that was one where the announcer kept talking over. I believe that was Match point that played during. Because that's the one that I run to. That's on my running list, the tune.

[Matt Bellany]

That's the name of the song. Yes. Trend. Reisner and Atticus Ross won for their score for Challengers, which we all love, which is amazing and is, frankly a not. I guess Trenton Reznor is very famous, so you could say it does have the veneer of old globes. But, you know, the guy who sang Head Like a Hole is not exactly Frank Sinatra. So there's something unusual in even these more obvious choices.

[Amanda Dobbins]

To me, it all felt very online. And I know that you were. You were like, no, this is more about.

[Matt Bellany]

For a lady who is awfully online.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm online and then I'm offline. But you know what? Sometimes it was my only portal to the world for the last three months. So, you know, I liked seeing what the kids are up to.

[Matt Bellany]

You were like haggard old Demi in the kitchen watching Margaret Qualley on the talk show every night.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, I basically was.

[Matt Bellany]

We all are. That's the problem. That's why that movie works. We're all Demi.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I think if we were awarding Very online. Like, it's very online award punditry and not very online. Like, all the kids are talking about Nosferatu right now. Or, you know, I. The movie that would solve all of this that came out this year is Dune Part 2. And the fact that a movie that was extremely popular and critically acclaimed and has great artistry going for it is completely vanished is one of the biggest mysteries. I mean, I understand why it's a part two. I understand the whole sequel question, but Wicked is here and it's a part one, so that doesn't fully fulfill the prompt for me. And maybe it's just that it happened at the beginning of the year and that feels like a million years ago and one whole presidential election ago or something like that. But Dune Part two just completely vanishing is such will remain an awards season mystery to me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Was Denis Villeneuve even in attendance tonight? It didn't look, it didn't seem like it.

[Matt Bellany]

He's not nominated.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Zendaya was at the Luca Guadagnino table, which is where I would have chosen to sit were anyone curious?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, actually.

[Matt Bellany]

Did you not get invited to that table?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think I would pick the conclave table, to be honest. Those guys are having a great time.

[Matt Bellany]

Raise. Having a ball.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They were like, right next to the cheat, you know, and then Lithgow, they were like, 1, 2, 3. That looks like the boys. Yeah, yeah. But so that table was right in front of the complete unknown table, which is where Timmy. Timmy was seated next to Kylie Jenner, by the way. I just want to note for everyone that he brought Kylie Jenner's date. I know that, but it's like they haven't. They attended last year the same time.

[Joanna Robinson]

They attended last year, and that was like a whole thing of them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, you know, it's not like they're.

[Matt Bellany]

You think they're in love?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I hope so. You know, cool forever.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just, I am desperately curious what they have in common, and I would like to know. And maybe I'm just.

[Matt Bellany]

I believe they have Riz in common.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Listen, and that's great, but will it last a lifetime?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I, I, I would guess that they have spent 120 hours together total. Like, that's it. And that's not even. Like, this is a fake relationship. This is just like, do you understand, like, their celebrity lives.

[Matt Bellany]

So back in on Timmy. I'm not. We're not.

[Joanna Robinson]

My question is, are we underestimating Kylie?

[Matt Bellany]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's my.

[Matt Bellany]

The interviews I've seen with him. I'm like, this is my guy. This Is this guy is. Is pure comedy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

My time measurement is not a judgment on either of them. It's just that they're both really famous. Yeah, they're busy. Like, celebrity relationships are not like our relationships. They have not.

[Matt Bellany]

What do you. Is Kylie's favorite Dylan record?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, which do you think?

[Matt Bellany]

You know, Desire is celebrating an anniversary today. Do you think she's Desire?

[Amanda Dobbins]

When he was prepping.

[Matt Bellany]

Can I throw a Dylan take at you?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

One more cup of coffee is what everyone thinks. Knocking on heaven's door is. Bang. I do this for a living.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. Standing ovation. The listeners at home just loved that take. I promise.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I saw that movie.

[Matt Bellany]

I still got my fastball. You know, three year old in the house. Doesn't matter. I'm still cooking. It's 9pm Feels like roughly 4am Right now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I saw the movie and then I listened to the Complete Unknown podcast. And you and Mallory, once you start going into the history, like, minute 90 of that podcast is some really intense stuff.

[Matt Bellany]

You wept because of how sincere and thoughtful our takes were.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you. No, I listen. I am glad that you guys love something and that also you're way more sincere about everything with people other than me.

[Matt Bellany]

So I know you bring out the worst.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know isn't it's just the difference.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I agree that he's more sincere, but you obviously, obviously, clearly bring out the best.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know that you're just like warmer and nicer and like, just like sharing your feelings about Bob Dylan with everyone. Just like a little much, you know.

[Matt Bellany]

Wouldn'T have allowed me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I liked it very, very much. And I think I agreed with you most of the three. It's really just some performances.

[Matt Bellany]

But did we talk about it, Joanna? I don't know if we talked about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You and I have, I think, talked informally about it, but I don't think we talked about it on the pod that much.

[Matt Bellany]

You did like it, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did like it, but I didn't love it. It's not great. And it's not even as good as Walk the Line is, so that's interesting. Yeah, but I thought Timmy was really good.

[Matt Bellany]

I think they're very different movies. They're interesting together, obviously. They're two representations of Cash.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I actually think Boyd, I mean, but he also. He just gets to be the foil and charisma and he doesn't actually have to do the whole like.

[Matt Bellany]

But you said you were listening to the soundtrack and he. There's a version of Big river that Boyd sings and I'm like, that's Johnny Cash, man. He sounds like Johnny. Joaquin does not sound like Johnny Cash.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was listening to the soundtrack. I went.

[Matt Bellany]

You said that. You said you pulled it up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I listened to the podcast.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, the podcast.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then I played Highway 61 for myself.

[Matt Bellany]

Is this a podcast?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Bob Dylan, not Timothee Chalamet.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're different, but they're kind of the same in that, like, Mangold was sort of trying to recreate a lot of Walk the Line inside of this Dylan, like, I think all of the love triangle stuff feels very much reaching for Walk the Line. And even to the point that he repeats a song that he uses in Walk the Line, that is like a song of a duet of tension beautifully. In Walk the Line is repeated again in this, which was like a wild.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And the way that Dylan and Joan Baez meet in a complete unknown is exactly the way.

[Matt Bellany]

Way that crossing paths.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Passion Carter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And kind of like the banter from the stage. Speaking of Joan Baez, I just. Why are we not talking about Monica Barbaro? Why was she not nominated tonight? Like, what are we. Listen, as you said, I don't know. We need.

[Matt Bellany]

We really needed to nominate Selena Gomez. That's why.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's Elle Fanning. Being winning an award for that performance is one of the wildest things I.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Was watching, and I was like, wow, she's very good. They have great chemistry. She's so beautiful. This can't be her singing. That's okay. You know, you can't have it all. And then, like, she is. She's singing. That's her. She's unreal. What are we doing?

[Matt Bellany]

I said it when we did the episode. I. I was floored.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also, as you said that that's the.

[Matt Bellany]

Hardest voice to nail, and there's not a harder 20. I mean, I guess Maria Callis is the other person who would be the hardest 20th century woman to nail. And as we know, Angelina Jolie did not perform those songs.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But also, you said that you went to a Q and A and she said that she didn't. She learned to sing, which I just like. Does that mean, like, is that. Is it a learnable skill? Like, can I be Adele if I.

[Joanna Robinson]

If I try hard enough and I support this new dream of yours? And I mean, I can't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think she was amazing. But what are we doing? I learned how to sing, and that's what came out.

[Matt Bellany]

I agree. If Colin Farrell can win an award for wearing prosthetic makeup, then Monica Barbara can win an award for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm so sorry to tell you, the penguin is great, and he's great.

[Matt Bellany]

I started watching it over the break, and I've been enjoying it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll just say it's really good. And Christine Milioti should have won in our category.

[Matt Bellany]

That's a fun part. You love her. Palm Springs.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I'll never watch that show, but I know you, for all of you, and I thought his acceptance speech was very charming, as is the way with Colin Farrell.

[Matt Bellany]

So, just to put a button on this conversation, I thought Timothee Chalamet was going to win.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So did I.

[Matt Bellany]

And Adrien Brody won best actor in a drama. Now, for whatever reason, I've been telling myself that they this won't happen again. You know, Brody won. He was the youngest winner ever in that category. Everyone agrees he's a great actor. This is a big upswing moment for him in his career. And, you know, he. He is magnificent in that movie. There is no movie without Brody basically turning his soul over in the performance. So it's not like it's a good win. It's an. It's a notable win, I guess. And this is something that does happen with acclaimed actors is they have these waves in their careers. They win once when they're in their 20s, and then, you know, look at Denzel Washington. He wins for glory, and then many years later, he wins for Training Day. Or did he win? He did win for glory, right? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And it's not unusual, but I just thought maybe just because I was so gobsmacked by how solid a complete unknown was and how terrific Chalamet was, that the tides would turn on us.

[Amanda Dobbins]

In the run that he has been on, there has been just, like, absolute coronation. He is our new Leo. Right, Right. Right down to sitting next to Kylie at the. At the Golden Globes.

[Matt Bellany]

Right. So we. So we both predicted it. Were you thinking Chalamet was going to win, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

I definitely thought Timmy was going to win. And, like, the thing, you know, I don't think it's. It's not sewn up that now Adrien Brody is going to win. It's just like, it was a big step forward for him and his campaign. It was a moment for him to create a narrative, which he did when he said, I never thought I'd get the chance to win something like this again, and then talked about his family, the immigration angle and stuff like that. That was his moment to create a narrative that Timmy has. Like, Timmy has the coronation narrative, but he doesn't have the comeback narrative, which has proven to be the most potent award season narrative, which, of course, Demi Moore made a meal of in her acceptance speech, which was, I think, inarguably the speech of the night. But Zoe Saldania similarly gets up and creates her narrative, which is like, you know, I've. First of all, I've made you all millions and millions and millions of dollars. I've done all of your pirates and Marvel movies and all of that, and this is something I care passionately about, and don't I deserve to be here? And so that feels so much more solid than it did before. But, yeah, to go all the way back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sorry.

[Joanna Robinson]

To best actor. I think it's interesting now, and I wonder what Timmy can do, because Timmy is running. He's running. And the interesting Amanda. Rightly so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sort of.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were going back and forth while watching. Was talking about all the people who are crying over their Golden Globes in sort of an overwrought way. But, like, when Zoe Saldana had her initial reaction to the win, to me, in my head, I'm like, she knows she's gonna win an Oscar. They read out her name. She was at the front of the pack, but not cemented. Kieran was cemented. She was sort of like, almost there. They rated out her name. She's like, I'm. This could happen. I could win an Oscar for this. And similarly, when Adrien Brody won, Timothee Chalamet gave a sort of, like, welp, which is, I have a lot more work to do, I guess, sort of reaction.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna ask you. You rightly identified Adrien Brody, like, figured out his angle. He has it, you know, if we're continuing the campaign narrative. He has a stump speech. Do you. I don't know if he nailed his audition tonight, though. Like, this. The speech kind of took a while to get there. There was some Georgina Chapman in there where I was like, oh, okay. You know, he landed it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah, he landed it. I, midway through, I texted a friend of mine who covers the word stuff, and I was like, adrian's not nailing his audition. And then he finished the speech, and I felt like he really sort of brought it back. He did not nail it the way that Demi and Zoe did, but I think he made the case for himself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Demi, for me, was the strongest. And that, to me, this went from I don't know if she's gonna get a nomination, which, in retrospect, was stupid, to that. And that was my mistake. I don't think it was stupid. She could win tonight. Yeah. And that happened tonight.

[Matt Bellany]

That hadn't occurred to me until tonight either.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Um, Zoe Saldania was a little. I think I agree that it kind of solidified tonight, but I was like, are we peeking too soon here? And that might just be because of the. The amount of tears. As I texted, I was like, we have to stop crying over Golden Globes. They're not Oscars.

[Matt Bellany]

You know, I don't even know who she's up against in this category. Ariana Grande is going to unseat her. I don't think so.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I. I guess not.

[Matt Bellany]

You know, I. I think, you know, I said it to you earlier tonight. When I saw Emilia Perez in the fall, my immediate reaction was, like, not so sure about this movie. I'm a little iffy on it. It's a lot of movie. I think that's a phrase that I used. But no matter what, Zoe Saldana is amazing. I had no idea she could do this in this movie. That was my sincere reaction. And I think that's how a lot of people are watching the movie. They're seeing the movie, and they're like, whoa. The choreography, the singing, the rapping, and then shifting into hard, dramatic performance in the middle of a movie like that, which is an often silly movie, is pretty impressive. I don't even think she needed to do. I think she could have given a completely banal speech, and it really would not have mattered that much, personally, because I don't think that the competition is as stiff in this category as it is for Demi Moore and as it is for Adrien Brody.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. There were just other little narratives bubbling. Like the Isabella Rossellini narrative was, like, bubbling for a little while. The Ariana Grande narrative has been there, but didn't ever really feel, like, solid.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did Zoe Saldana. Was it Zoe Saldana who was like, isabella, I stayed at your house once.

[Matt Bellany]

She did.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had dinner again.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I felt like I had made it. Y. Dinner. Your hot. That was good. That was good. It was still too much crying for me. We're all Jennifer Lopez not winning her Golden Globe, you know, in the. In the documentary.

[Matt Bellany]

Do you think before you die, you'll win a Golden Globe?

[Joanna Robinson]

And in what category? I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Will you buy it for me?

[Joanna Robinson]

I wouldn't be winning the. I think the. The closest competition she has in this category right now, actually, if the brutalist narrative catches fire is Felicity Jones, because the brutalist sort of narrative could spread to. It's not going to touch the pornographic, but it's not. But, like, yeah, yeah, it's the wife.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it's not the normal wife.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Well, let's talk after you see it. Yeah, let's have a conversation after you see it.

[Matt Bellany]

I suggested that possibility to Amanda on Friday on the show, and I think I was just talking up my brutalist fantasies a little bit because I'm not sure if there's enough there. And obviously people have more issues at the second half of the film, which is really more on the Felicity performance side, but it's not. It's not unreasonable. The Isabella Rossellini one would be quite silly. It doesn't mean that she doesn't give a good performance in conclave. She does. She's just really not asked to do a whole lot.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's barely in it.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would be a thanks for your career Oscar.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She Googles extremely angrily and extremely memorably.

[Joanna Robinson]

She stands and she glowers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So the two Oscar memes that I need, that I don't have yet are, number one, Isabella Rossellini pulling something up on a computer and leaving the room silently. Which is like me during every what I want to do during every podcast. And then has no one made a complete unknown, like, gazing face mashup of just, like, flashing at everyone's, like, really fast, over and over again. Can I commission that?

[Matt Bellany]

I haven't seen it, but I'm sure you could get a fan cam going. Yeah. What? Bob's tune should be played over that fan cam.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Just like speed of light, all of them all at once, just looking at him like, oh, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

[Matt Bellany]

It's a trope that is used also in Walk the Line, but exceedingly so in a complete unknown. I get it as a.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They all look very beautiful while they do it, so that's okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

The gift that I would like to commission, if we're just, you know, putting that out into the ether and we do it sometime on House of Our. So I approve. Is if anyone has Willem Dafoe grabbing the cat at the end of Nosferatu, I would like that.

[Matt Bellany]

That's a good one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Please.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay. Other notable awards, I mean, we mentioned that Demi Moore did win for actress in a musical or comedy, defeating Mikey Madison, who you and I both predicted, who has been the headlong frontrunner for months and months. Honora going home empty handed and Wicked going home sort of empty handed as well. Aside from its box office achievement victory and no acting performances being recognized either is interesting and I don't really know what to make of the best actress race, because on the drama side, we've got Fernanda Torres from I'm Still Here. And that is another win that feels, on the one hand, not Globesy at all. And then on the other hand, we learned or we were reminded that Fernanda Montenegro, her mother, was nominated 25 years ago for another Walter Salas movie, Central Station. So there is that classical kind of Golden Globes. We are a generation of generations of movie makers and artists, you know, and, you know, is Fernanda Torres a Nepo baby? I'm not saying she is. I do also, but I'm not saying she's not great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. You know, with Miss Golden Globe forever, I do also think that. I believe it was Rebecca Ford from Vanity Fair who noted that someone from the Golden Globes association told her that there are a lot of Brazilians on the voting committee. And as you pointed out to me, Sean, the Brazilian contingent, film contingent, is very proud of. I'm still here.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're very passionate about the Brazilian people. I will just say, am I like, let me paint it with a wide brush, and I'm so sorry to Brazil, but I'm about to compliment. You are the most passionate fans I've ever encountered in my life in any genre. When they care, they care vociferously. And so, yeah, the. I mean, the Fernanda Torres narrative has been zooming around, but it was more like, let's get her nominated, not let's get her a win. So I was shocked and excited. I thought we were gonna get, like, a classic globes, like a Kidman win. That's what I thought it was going to be.

[Matt Bellany]

That was my prediction as well. And neither Angelina Jolie nor Nicole Kidman winning in that category is a real, like, these ain't your mom's globes. These are different globes. And that's a good thing. I mean, the Fernanda Soares film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm still here to stop slandering moms.

[Matt Bellany]

What do you mean?

[Amanda Dobbins]

These ain't your mom's globes.

[Matt Bellany]

These ain't your granddad's globes. Thank you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm here speaking for everyone, but also the moms.

[Matt Bellany]

I'm a mom guy. I don't know what you're talking about. I love moms. The Fernanda Torres one is interesting. I'm still here didn't really work for me as well as it has worked for other people. I've said, like, the four films that were anointed as the international films that everyone agrees on. This year, which I think is, like, all we imagine is light. See the Sacred Fig. Emilia Perez. I'm still here. I just. I couldn't get in any of those four films. And this one, too, which I felt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, not American enough for you because.

[Matt Bellany]

You'Re like, how dare you? No, but I. It's. It's fascinating that, like, these awards races are just changing so much that someone like Fernando Torres would not just win at the Globes, because I'm not sure that that means anything, but we should be, like, seriously considering her for a best Actress win the Academy Awards for a film that, you know, very few people have seen this movie. I don't think it has gotten more than New York LA release at this point. Right, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, no, but I think there's still a chance that she might not even get nominated. Like, she. For sure, but, like, Demi is definitely getting nominated out of tonight. Like, there's. I will be. I will do something once again, I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Patient Zero. If you're insubordination, you know, your surprise best actress nominees.

[Matt Bellany]

So then let's explore that. Right. Because when for best musical or comedy, Female actor performance, I feel pretty good about Cynthia Erivo, Carla, Sofia Gascon, Mikey Madison, and Demi Moore being nominated. Do we think that those four will be nominated for best Actress?

[Joanna Robinson]

Carla is the only question for me, but after tonight, maybe it's not a question at this point.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And she got to have the big closing moment of this show, which is notable. So then there's four. That leaves one spot from the other women who are nominated in motion picture drama. Unless there's another wild card out there that I'm not thinking of, but Pamela Anderson, which I think is unlikely. Angelina Jolie, who's been in the race hard the whole time. Nicole Kidman, who I would say has been right on the outside of the top five for the last couple months. Tilda Swinton for the room next door. Fernanda Torres and Kate Winslet. So if you're choosing one of those people, who is it?

[Joanna Robinson]

If it's me, it's Fernanda Torres. But, like, I could see it being Nicole, you know?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, I think Fernanda Torres is smart again from the international, you know, voting base. But then there's the part of me that's like, Kidman always finds a way.

[Joanna Robinson]

She does. She really does.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does in so many ways.

[Matt Bellany]

Wait till you find the ways that she finds in Baby Girl Tomorrow.

[Joanna Robinson]

You haven't seen Baby. Oh, my God. For the Amanda Baby Girl take.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I'm.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm extremely excited.

[Matt Bellany]

Coming soon.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Paris Dickinson was not in attendance at the Golden Globes tonight. At least he was not on camera.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Demi. Okay, so the Nicole Kidman thing. I. When I was sort of reading through people's predictions for the Globes, a lot of people were mentioning that Nicole Kimmin had such a good TV year, and I was like, what do you mean? Expat was terrible. But then she had a Netflix hit, and then she's also in Lioness, and so she is around on the TV front. And then I was thinking about for my sins, for my friendship with Mallory Rubin. I have just in the last week watched all of Landman, which, like, I really wish I hadn't. But next week is the finale, and they're setting it up for Demi Moore to have, like, a book big finale moment in Landman, which is a massively popular show. And so in terms of, like, her momentum, I was thinking about, like, the Matthew McConaughey, a true detective, Dallas Buyers Club year. Like, if you have a big TV year, it can really push. Push you over the line if you. If you need a little push.

[Matt Bellany]

I was just saying that on the playground this morning with my daughter's parents. Friends. Parents. Landman was the talk of the space.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

At the monkey bars, it was all about Landman. Everyone's watching.

[Joanna Robinson]

Terrible show. It's a really bad show, but it is.

[Matt Bellany]

You will have to CR. About that because I've only seen one.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have. We have been texting about it.

[Matt Bellany]

I will say Ali Larder, innocent, no matter what.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The only thing I want to say in response to that is that Demi is having a big TV year, but Nicole Kidman's also having a big Netflix year because in addition to the Netflix TV show, A Perfect Couple, please do not forget A Family Affair, of course, a Netflix film in which Nicole Kidman, cinematic masterpiece, falls in love with Zac Efron. Yeah, right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And she's. It's one of two times that she plays a bestselling book author.

[Matt Bellany]

Before we get too far into this episode, I'd like to mention my favorite win of the night, which is Sebastian Stan winning for best male actor in a motion picture musical comedy, which is, again, not something I would have ever predicted. And another symbol of a somehow changed Golden Globes. This is a very, very small movie that not a lot of people have seen, obviously. He was also nominated for his work in the Apprentice, and he's a great actor and he's, of course, a very famous guy. He is Bucky Barnes, after all. But I thought he gave a good speech and that was a great speech. Yeah. I'm now like, could this happen?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Matt Bellany]

Could this nomination happen?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because it's definitely Adrien Brody, Timothee Chalamet, Colman Domingo and Ralph Fiennes. Right?

[Matt Bellany]

Agreed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes. And so that it's either Daniel Craig or Sebastian Stan, right?

[Matt Bellany]

I think that's right. And so Daniel Craig is more famous and more beloved, but queer is not as good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is there someone outside of the box beyond those two that we're not thinking of?

[Matt Bellany]

Well, I was wondering if there could have been a Jesse Eisenberg push, but he did not win tonight. That was something I was thinking about as I was making predictions.

[Joanna Robinson]

And a real pain just didn't feel like the Kieran win is the Kieran win, but a real pain did not feel like it was present otherwise at the ceremony. Right.

[Matt Bellany]

But no, not really. It didn't really have any other moments. And even the Kieran moment didn't feel like I thought, actually he spoke nicely of Jesse in the script and the movie, but another movie that not a ton of people have seen that I guess probably is going on Hulu pretty soon if it's not already there. Is it even there now? And by Hulu, I mean Disney, which is where all Hulu content goes now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not also on Hulu.

[Matt Bellany]

It is, but you know, they like, everything is on Disney now. They're like, please watch Shogun on Disney.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, so I don't need to have my Hulu app anymore.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't think. Is there anything that is not. That isn't available on Disney at this point?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. I think all of Hulu is over on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I believe that's not true. I do use Disney for Mary Poppins.

[Joanna Robinson]

So there's Hugh Grant, which does not feel like a possibility. As much as we love him, girdle or no girdle, there is the.

[Matt Bellany]

You know, Bill Simmons was asking me on his show on Friday if Heretic could get into the awards race at all here. I was like, I don't think so. I think it's on the outside.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think if it had any chance, it would be screenplay, but I don't think it does have a chance at screenplay.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I don't think so either.

[Joanna Robinson]

The main issue with Daniel Craig versus Sebastian Stan, and I was talking to our friend of the show, Katie Rich about this because I was like, you don't. She's Like, I don't think Sebastian Stan's getting nominated. And I was like, tell me why. He just gave this wonderful speech. We love Sebastian Stan. He's a Marvel star, and he's tremendous in these two films. She's like, he's competing against himself. So Daniel only has to represent queer. But Sebastian Stan might split the votes on his own. Two performances didn't stop Steven Soderbergh from.

[Matt Bellany]

Being nominated for Traffic and Erin Brockovich sure didn't. But you know what happened there. Ang Lee came through the Golden Globes and just snatched it away. Split the vote. Tough one. Hate when that happens.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if we get Oscar nominee Sebastian Stan, I will be thrilled.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That would be very exciting. Daniel Craig's been working very hard and wearing a lot of Loewe, and so I've really enjoyed press tour Daniel Craig, so I'll miss that. But I'm sure he'll keep getting hired.

[Matt Bellany]

Let's quickly talk about best screenplay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, this was weird.

[Matt Bellany]

This was Conclave's Soul Victory. This is the only movie, I believe, that is an adaptation. Is that right? I guess Emilia Perez was an opera.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was an opera, yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

I haven't read the novel. Your mother's read the novel. Maybe we should call her. I don't know how much of a. It sounds like the. It's very similar structurally to the novel, from what I understand.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you asking the question, like, how much should we credit this adaptation?

[Matt Bellany]

I don't. I guess I just don't know. It's unusual when it sticks out like this alongside a bunch of original stories. Anora, the brutalist, a real pain. The substance, which are all originals, which is something that I tend to overemphasize on the show. And they don't split adapted screenplay and original screenplay at the Golden Globes. Why? I have no idea. The Globes are doing whatever the fuck they want to do. Why are there only six nominees for supporting actor and actress and 12 lead actor? I have no. Why? Why is this the rules? I don't know. They're doing whatever they want to do. The Conclave win, I thought, could have meant one of two things. When it won screenplay, I was like, oh, interesting. Well, sometimes that's what happens. They'll match a screenplay win with a drama win, you know, or you'll have screenplay, and then you'll have best actor, and then you'll have drama. Like, you see a lot of tic tac toe formations. Historically, it turned out that the tic tac toe formation in this case was actor, director, and Best Picture for the Brutalist. So I'm not really sure where Conclave stands. I will say I read a Megyn Kelly tweet, which was very scornful of the film Conclave. And when I read that tweet, I thought to myself, that smells like a Best Picture winner. Someone who. A film that the far right hates, that will become a cause celeb in an awards race. We've seen this story before, but now. And, you know, the Globes may not be impactful in that respect, but just one win felt a little scant to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I know we keep saying no, I don't think. I think Conclave is dropped in its chances. But in terms of its screenplay chances or this is a screenplay win, I was reminded that. Eren, I know we're talking about. This is New Globes, not Old Globes. Not your grandfather's Globes. But Aaron Sorkin has won three Golden Globes for film screenplay. And this was, like, such a Sorkiny type of story that it seems like sometimes it reminds me of when the. The movie. Sometimes the movies that get nominated for sound or win for sound are the movies with, like, the most sound or the movies with the most editing. So, like, is it the movie with the most talking that you know is going to win a screenplay award? Sometimes, Occasionally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

If. If it were Old Globes, I would have expected Conclave to be kind of. That has the feel of prestige and fan and, you know, is fancy and Renaissance paintings and, you know, celebrated actors, but is kind of a trashy airport book dressed up with hats. Great hats. Should we. We should wear hats for the.

[Matt Bellany]

The cardinal hats.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

I want Tedesco's vape. That's what I said.

[Joanna Robinson]

You in a tux?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Sean in a gown and Shauna's Tedesco.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then. And then cardinal hats.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

This is a war. I was so happy when I saw that they used that scene to show Peter Strahan's writing in the film Conclave. I love that scene. I wish Tucci could have had, like, five more scenes like that in that movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't know what to make of where Conclave stands. I guess it does feel like it's falling a little bit, but it's also like, it's impossible to know how indicative the Globes are in any given year, because last year, they were wildly indicative. The year before that, a little bit less so. The year before that, Fableman's won drama, and not Everything Everywhere all at once won comedy. I can't even Remember what it was. But they didn't predict that race at all. And so both of those administrations were the new Globes. So I don't. It's a little bit hard to say. I think, obviously, we'll learn a lot more as we get SAG, PGA, DGA, and then BAFTA's winnows down its list.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I ask you how you feel about Wicked right now? Should we. Is. You know, is the.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't think a lot has changed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's the good witch here in the room with us.

[Matt Bellany]

Delinda, show yourself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Delinda wants another chance to unload on Wicked.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I just. I think Old Globes would have been like, well, that's over, because.

[Matt Bellany]

No, now this is a critics group now. That's what this is. And Wicked is not a critics movie. You know, it's a populist film. And the thing that is going for. That is good for Wicked, I think, is that at the Academy Awards, there are a lot of other categories where Wicked will be recognized. On the flip side.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Costume, makeup and hairstyling, production design, like you're gonna. All that. It's gonna be on down the line. It's probably gonna get six or seven, maybe even nine nominations. But the film that won cinematic box office achievement last year was Barbie. Barbie. And this could very well be Barbie. In fact, it probably is this year's Barbie.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it should be. That's where Wicked should be.

[Matt Bellany]

Barbie is better than Wicked, Joanna.

[Joanna Robinson]

Barbie is way better than Wicked. I love Barbie. You know that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, Say it again.

[Matt Bellany]

Barbie is better than Wicked.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There we go.

[Matt Bellany]

Very easy for me to say. No problem there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not hard for me to say either. I didn't like love, love, love Wicked. I liked it better than I thought I would, is how I feel about Wicked.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But did you know the animals sing?

[Joanna Robinson]

I did. I did. Did that. Was that. Is that what broke you? That's so early to break you in the film. When I did. Glitch starts singing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And I will also say that was a goat. Right. I thought the goat was Rupert Everett. And then when I found out it was Peter Dinklage instead, I was. I thought. I think it would have been cooler with Rupert Everett.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a compliment for Peter Dinklage. Terrible English accent that you thought it was an actual Englishman.

[Matt Bellany]

It was ridiculous that they just had him. Tyrion all over again. That was ridiculous.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was someone being a goat. You know, I didn't think, like, Rupert Everett was putting his whole heart in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's fair. Really phoning it in for the goat role in Wicked. Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

I just like to cite two very funny joke moments from the monologue that I enjoyed. The first was the Selena Gomez Benny Blanco's genie joke, which was mean but great. And the second was the Adam Sandler Shallow Me, which I just. That that's a. Nikki Glaser is a woman or the woman who. The person who wrote that joke is a person who understands Adam Sandler, and Adam Sandler is a person who understands the moment and knows how to come through.

[Joanna Robinson]

The fact that Sandler, like, came in on the bit is what made the bit to me.

[Matt Bellany]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was, like, slightly floundering, and then he came in and I was like, this is the best. This is wonderful.

[Matt Bellany]

There's no one better.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I thought it was a good monologue. Again, this is my introduction. Nikki Laser. Good job. Very successful.

[Matt Bellany]

Will you explore her works?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. I mean, this is good, right? Like, we have something settled. We have something nice. We have fond memories, you know?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. We had one great date. Why have another?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, we'll hold on to the memories. But it was. It was never fully mean. It was a little sharp, but never mean. Most of the targets were, like, industry streaming service, that sort of things. As opposed to people and the people. With the exception of a couple, you know, Diddy jokes that. I don't know if we needed them a little soon. Yeah. Or just like, was it that funny? I don't know. Even the glancing ones were amusing. Like whatever the Ben Affleck joke was about thing, you know, things he calls out in bed. Yeah, that was funny. You know, And Ben Affleck can handle that.

[Matt Bellany]

He can take it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I need to call out a very important cultural moment, which is when Vin Diesel acknowledged the Rock. And the Rock just shot daggers back at Vin Diesel.

[Matt Bellany]

This was gonna be my closing discussion point. Thank you for perfect timing. No, perfect timing, Joanna.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No. If you want it to be close, it's not closing. Joanna and I have one more moment.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay. Why don't we do Dwayne and then we'll do Andrew?

[Joanna Robinson]

So drama and then comedy, Is that what you're saying?

[Matt Bellany]

Vin Diesel presenting the cinematic box office achievement. If it is a knowing gesture to his works and then him coming forth and saying, I'd just like to point out that I am the man who has worked with Steven Spielberg and Sidney Lumet and many other great filmmakers. And while dunking on Dwayne Johnson sitting in the crowd, who I guess is there to promote redone. I got a tattoo.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wanted To Moana too.

[Matt Bellany]

But that movie's coming out in like 11 months. We're gonna get another. We're getting the Smashing Machine before. We're getting Moana too. Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Moana 2 is out. What?

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, I'm thinking of the live action Moana. You're right. Moana 2. You're right. Moana 2. I guess that's true. I don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not playing in your house.

[Matt Bellany]

You know, she hasn't called for a viewing of the film at home because we do have a screener.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

She calls for them. Does she, like, call you?

[Matt Bellany]

She rings the bell. She says, master, come down. Please turn off. Yeah, that is how it feels sometimes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, sorry. You're talking about.

[Matt Bellany]

I mean, Vin dunked on Dwayne Johnson and like Vin Diesel just sucks. Like, he's terrible and he makes bad movies. The fast franchise is horrible. I hate it also. But, like, he kind of won.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That introduction alone was like 45 minutes.

[Matt Bellany]

Felt that way. It went on and on and on.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He fell asleep on stage twice.

[Matt Bellany]

He was incredibly self important. And yet he was kind of victorious in that moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

In that. In that one moment. I think he. He won briefly. Did you know one of my favorite awards season thing is that they bring people out to like promo their new thing. Were there any upcoming projects that you were like, a little bit more interested in because you saw the stars of it present an award tonight.

[Matt Bellany]

You were like, tingling when you heard about the Gorge and I explained the premise of the Gorge. You were like, good God. This is like the last time I saw Michael Keaton. I feel something extraordinary.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was honestly looking at Miles Teller and was wondering whether he got dressed like what his Sunday was like and where he watched the Eagles game and how he fit that into his prep.

[Matt Bellany]

And you know, he definitely had Vikings lions on his iPhone like in between presentation. Yeah, no question.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Gobert.

[Matt Bellany]

I did not.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Hi, Miles.

[Matt Bellany]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Big Eagles guy. Yeah. I don't think there was a single thing that was being promoted that I.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll go back to Seth rogen and Katherine O'Hara and say the studio on Apple TV.

[Matt Bellany]

I am excited for that show for sure. And that, you know, that whole bit, Seth and Catherine O'Hara are favorites of mine, but felt like they just wrote it together instead of the Golden Globes. Right. This is Seth, comic voice coming through in this bit. So, yeah, I'm looking forward. That's a good point. I'm looking forward to that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a few moments of that. Like Nate Borgazzi definitely wrote his bit and they gave him a stand up mic to come out. They let him feel comfortable on his own. So there are a few moments where it was clear that the people actually wrote the bit. Not you, Kate Hudson and Mindy Kaling, but Seth rogen and Katherine O'Hara. Just really, I gotta tell you, Kate.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Hudson delivered her half with gusto.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but Mindy, I mean, I'm with you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we talk about Andrew Garfield?

[Matt Bellany]

So I actually was in the bathroom.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, Sean was in the bathroom. He missed this. He missed it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can you show him the video I sent you?

[Matt Bellany]

I've seen it many times now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so you've watched it. So. So I. Let's start with the glasses, with the reading. A very good place to start.

[Matt Bellany]

Put some context around what you're talking about. You're making it sound like it's a recipe recitation of the Bible or something. It's like an actor got on stage at an award show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What was he presenting?

[Joanna Robinson]

I couldn't tell you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was Demi. It was Demi because he was in the background of Demi's speech.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's part of the whole thing. Right. So he gets out there and turns to the very close camera, finds his light as he does and pulls out the frames. I don't have an ID on the frames, but, you know, I'm sure it's.

[Matt Bellany]

All of her people's reading glasses. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or trimmed at the very least. Right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. And. And looks. He doesn't. He's not looking directly in camera, but he knows he has his angle. To put on his reading glasses while he is fiddling with the button of his shirt to make sure it's properly undone to show half of his chest. And his pendant, which I have been reliably informed is a David Yurman pendant, in case anyone was.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pendant that matches the emerald green. And by the way, emerald green. Really? The color of the night. A lot of green suits on the guys, some great green gowns. That's just my Vanity Fair coming through.

[Matt Bellany]

Glowing emeralds around Rachel Brosnahan that I noted with interest.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was going to give you a moment to talk about Rachel Brosnahan if you wanted to. She looked wonderful.

[Matt Bellany]

I made a old man comment while I was like, hello, Lois. Yeah, how are the. Exactly. She looks amazing. I can't wait. Can't wait.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you understand how we feel. You understand how we feel. How you felt about Rachel Brosnan.

[Matt Bellany]

But I also feel that way about Andrew Garfield. Like, I also will make out with Andrew Garfield. I'm on the record about that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let me be very clear. That part of. Part of my reaction is like, the Andrew Garfield experience these last three months, which I was on the sidelines for. I just. The whole We Live in Time press tour, of course, the chicken dance, Elmo.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, my God, the Elmo.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, the Elmo is when I said, you know, incredible. Yeah. The modern love, the crying. Like, my guy is out here, and it has really been something to behold. And the level of self, knowledge and intention with which he angled that pendant right into the camera and then put those reading glasses on. Like, my guy's having a great time at the parties tonight.

[Joanna Robinson]

When you. I want to shout out very on brand for big pic. I think his stylist is Warren Alfie Baker, who is also Glenn Powell stylist. And, like, he is maybe my favorite. Like, I actually don't follow a lot of stylists, but, like, the work that he has done with Andrew Garfield and Glen Powell has been extraordinary. And you can kind of tell his work when he works with other people. But when. When you rewatch Demi Moore's speech, which you should, because it's a masterclass in Golden Globe speechery, please watch Andrew Garfield realize when the camera is on him and watch him adjust his stance and sort of be aware that he is in the background of a shot. He's a character.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

He knows where his light is and he finds it. And we love that for him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Good for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

I'm very happy for him. He was up for no awards whatsoever.

[Joanna Robinson]

And yet he won anyway.

[Matt Bellany]

And yet he won. He made a very memorable appearance.

[Joanna Robinson]

A related important question I need to ask Amanda Emma Stone's hair.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, she looks beautiful. You know, if anyone was made to do the, you know, the Pixie.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, the Jean Seberg.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, exactly. She looks fantastic. I loved the dress, like, the styling and everything that went with it, I thought. And the color, so very pro.

[Matt Bellany]

Reportedly because her head is shaved in the film Begonia, the new Lonthimos movie coming out next year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is she gonna make movies with anyone besides him?

[Matt Bellany]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

No. I spoke to her. She said 48 more than most films. They're all. And they're all sequels to kinds of kindness. They're just gonna tell that story.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did not see Jesse Plemons once on the screen. I saw.

[Matt Bellany]

Was he there?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, Kirsten Dunst posted a photo of her getting ready and her hair being done.

[Matt Bellany]

So I hope he's having a ton whiskey right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't see him on the screen, but I saw him on the red carpet and he looked nice in a tux, but suitably rumpled, as he always does.

[Matt Bellany]

Did I miss all the awards for Civil War? Was I in the bathroom for.

[Joanna Robinson]

You were in the bathroom, yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Shoot. It's a shame.

[Joanna Robinson]

Too bad.

[Matt Bellany]

Any closing thoughts? Will you return to the Golden Globes again next year hoping to win?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's my year. Listen, I'm available to be a seat filler.

[Matt Bellany]

You know it's going to be really painful when you defeat General Jennifer Lopez at the Golden Globes. That will be your ultimate triumph.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did you see Soderbergh on his annual culture list? He watched both Jennifer Lopez's musical length, music video, whatever, feature films.

[Matt Bellany]

Sure, on Amazon.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was 40 minutes long.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then he watched the documentary. He is a completist.

[Matt Bellany]

Have you seen those, Joanna?

[Joanna Robinson]

I have not had the pleasure.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you recommend.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You really need to watch the documentary.

[Joanna Robinson]

You think so?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would say, don't you actually. I mean, there is a lot more access than I would have given, especially where I. Ben Affleck. But he's in there yelling about cameras. So it's quite something. And Steven Soderbergh has seen it. If it's good enough for Steven Soderbergh, is it not good enough for you?

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't we all agree that that's what the Globes should be? What you're describing of the Jennifer Lopez documentary is what the Globes should be. The Globes were famously like a drunken, like free for all the booze, was not flowing the way that it needed to be. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it was a little staid and then I. And also I don't have any idea where the Oscar race is going to go.

[Matt Bellany]

Do you think Fernando Torres is shit faced right now somewhere clutching a globe?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the social clip, guys, please. Clip Sean saying, do you think Fernanda Dorris is shit based right now, Joe?

[Matt Bellany]

Anything else? I mean, do you think this is actually going to impact the Oscars? I guess that's the thing that we're talking about. You do.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think you should be feeling really good right now, Sean, because I think the brutalist is in a really good position.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, congratulations.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't know how to feel about that. That's interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Your takeaway isn't though, that Emilia Perez is just is. Is coming for everything that isn't Demi Morris.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oscar power. Positive thinking. I'm gonna say I would rather the brutalist over Emelia Perez. So. Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Hmm. So interesting. I. You know, the Brutalist does kind of sort of fit the mold of what I think the Academy is now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

Kind of, sorta. Not entirely because it's obviously gesturing at an old style of Hollywood film, but it's also gesturing at a completely different European style. You know, I know, it's just, it's. I think that's a little bit of a red herring about what the movie is. I think the movie is way more a European version or like a George Stevens movie from the 50s than it is a Coppola movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

But I could be wrong. People would disagree.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I think Brady winning director feels very big to me anyway.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I thought he did very well. And as someone who is a big fan of that movie, and I really liked talking to him when he was on the show. I had the same concern that you did, where I was like, ooh, don't. Don't be too pretentious. Don't be too eyes agog with your own vision. And I think actually reading his speech weirdly helped a lot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, I was nervous. Again, you gotta print these things out. Everyone not on the phone. But I completely agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I'm not going to disagree with you. I'm going to say Jacques Gaudard getting out three pages of the paperclip made me so scared. But he only read the top page. But he was going for so long and he still had many more pages paperclip together. And I was like, what are we going to do?

[Matt Bellany]

It was in 72 font though, so it was okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was really worried. Yeah. Who. Who would you have said was the best director front runner before tonight in the Oscar race? Sean Baker.

[Matt Bellany]

I think he and Sean Baker have been one and two the whole time. And both of them are the vision peak guys.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think with Mikey no longer being necessarily the like solid front runner.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, this is a. This was a. This is a real falter for an aura and a real leap forward for the Brutalists is what I would say is my takeaway.

[Matt Bellany]

It was. I still think Mikey's gonna win. I still do. I think it depends how very different group.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it depends how Demi plays. You know, few weeks.

[Matt Bellany]

The next few weeks, the Demi win will feel like the Jamie Lee Curtis win in many ways. And then we'll look back and I think the Demi performance is superior to the Jamie Lee Curtis performance in everything every other ones, but has a similar kind of framework. Like this person is a kind of a genre legend and a Hollywood Legend, right? That was like the acknowledging their body of work.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Michelle. It was all of this Michelle Yohan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, all of them movie that is also doing that. So to me, at least it's like the project is the idea at the same time. So if she wins the Oscar for the substance about the like. Okay, it adds up.

[Matt Bellany]

What was your favorite win?

[Amanda Dobbins]

As I said, I really enjoyed Colin Farrell. That was for a TV show I will never watch. So tanks and craft services. Carolina. That was lovely. That was really.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the coconut water.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

He's shouting out Andrew Scott in the movie we made 25, 30 years ago you can't find on Betamax. Incredible movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Very charming. That's my answer.

[Matt Bellany]

All my Irish homies love those guys. Joe, favorite win.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I give you a TV win on this film podcast?

[Matt Bellany]

Of course. Please do.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're a speech. Tadanobu Asano for Shogun.

[Matt Bellany]

His speech was awesome. Yeah, it was very short. And I think he said, this is such a great gift or such a great present. And it was like, peace out. And I think that's how most speeches should be.

[Joanna Robinson]

And his translator came out with him, but he didn't use her. And he just, like, soldiered through and he was snubbed for the Emmy when he should have won. So this is like a real Shogun won all, you know, all the same things that they won at the Emmys. Plus Tadanobu. And this is like, I loved him. He was wonderful. So my favorite.

[Matt Bellany]

Great pick.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What was your favorite?

[Joanna Robinson]

How about you?

[Matt Bellany]

Sean Sebastian. Stan was my favorite. I think that was the most unexpected and cool. And I thought he did very well. And it would be exciting to see him get recognized because he is one of the only MCU IP actors who actually uses his powers for good and makes interesting, challenging films. And I appreciate that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, Zoe Saldana, let's give her some credit. And then also she did the same thing.

[Matt Bellany]

She absolutely did the same thing. I totally agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

And did you see that? We got, like, fact checked on our Chris Evans take.

[Matt Bellany]

Sean, what was the take that his.

[Joanna Robinson]

Two like, his upcoming projects. He's doing a Celine song film. And then I forget what the other one is, but he's got, like, a couple really good upcoming projects.

[Matt Bellany]

He's the star of Materialists, which is coming out later this year alongside Dakota Johnson. And who's the third? It's a film about a matchmaker.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pedro Pascal. Right, Pedro Pascal.

[Matt Bellany]

Inspired by Celine Song's stint as a matchmaker. A professional matchmaker. So that'll be an interesting movie. You're right, though. Chris Evans does have two cool movies coming up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You guys were. You were a little hard.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were tough. We were tough on Chris.

[Matt Bellany]

Chris Evans is your guy. Since when?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Doing this show for years.

[Matt Bellany]

What are your favorite Chris Evans performances?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it's the First Avenger.

[Joanna Robinson]

He loves a Boston guy. Amanda loves a Boston guy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. I was listening to it and I was like, well, this is kind of mean, you know, but you didn't have.

[Matt Bellany]

Did you spend any time watching Redone?

[Joanna Robinson]

You didn't watch redone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Materialist did. No, my husband did. I opted out of that experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you had, you would have known. Sure.

[Matt Bellany]

We were entirely justified in our discussion.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

But if Materialist is great, I'll be back on the train. The whole point of that conversation was this guy was in Knives out and Snowpiercer and Sunshine. He knows what is good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Matt Bellany]

Make good movies. That's all I want. I don't want to end up dissing Chris Evans again. Yeah, he's your guy. You can call him pretty. I would say a mixed award show in terms of the quality of the telecast. I like the host. I thought she would do well. She did do well. Just a very high minded and mostly very good set of awards.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is just really funny. I really thought you were going to come on here and like, gloat, Sean, because I really think that's not what it's about.

[Matt Bellany]

I'm not trying to exclude anyone. I think that that's a great film and people should try to, like, meet it where it wants to be met. Like, I'm really. I have no interest in, like, lording any of this over anybody because nobody's even seen this movie yet. And when they see it and they understand that it's not me, a sad podcaster, like, trying to do a bit. It's actually a way more sincere and sophisticated story about pain. Then they'll understand, like, why it's winning awards like this. But then again, Emilia Perez won too, so who the fuck knows?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Who knows?

[Matt Bellany]

Okay, well, we'll pick up this conversation again. You're not done. You were trying to insinuate somehow that you're, like, not coming back for the rest of awards season. But you're definitely coming back and we'll find out when the right times are. You definitely have to keep helping us. Power Rank Best Picture nominees. You've taken us this far, Joanna.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, that sounds like a joy to me.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay. Thank you for staying up with us. I really appreciate it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Lovely to see you listen to Joanna.

[Matt Bellany]

On the myriad of podcast that she hosts here at the Ringer. We used to let her name them, but we won't do that tonight. Thank you so much to Jack Sanders for his video production work and the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Delivery and for a coffee cake. It's really nice. My last podcast before leave, there was a coffee cake from Bobby and the first podcast, well, second podcast back, but a coffee cake from Jack. It's very kind of both of you and it's delicious.

[Matt Bellany]

Bobby was also a giver of this coffee cake as well. Thank you to Bobby Wagner, our producer on this podcast, for his work. We'll be back very soon in just a few days. We'll be discussing the film Baby Girl once you've had a chance to see it. And we're gonna build a hall of fame for Nicole Kidman. And I'd like to tell you something. I believe Nicole Kidman has made 45 movies this century. Yeah, that's not a joke. She's also starred in five television shows and she is the face of AMC in this century.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And are television shows eligible?

[Matt Bellany]

Well, I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Oh, this is is exciting because who.

[Matt Bellany]

Has a bigger and broader and bolder CV than Nicole Kidman? I'm not sure if anyone we've ever talked about on the show does, but we will talk about it very, very soon. We'll see you then.